Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on February 26, 2011, 11:57:47 PM
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
There are almost 30 dots in this screen shot, and this is after the attacked had started a few people had scrambled to know a number of them down. In this case they launched off a CV and NOEd in. There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop. Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
My solution was easy enough, I went to another arena. I can see where people could get frustrated and decide it isn't worth it to even play. Is this the way the game is going to be played?
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Can we stop complaining about this, please?
This horse's soul has past on to the afterlife long ago, rest his soul... :pray
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Bah thats great. Jack pot.....!
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what field was that btw? cuz me and my squad UPed from a CV and took a base t=with F6Fs F4Us and Seafires.
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how about having some guys looking for CVs to kill?
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yup helpless V tards.
Easy to defeat..... you could just spy on their mishuns and slaughter them till they go elsewhere. :devil
all jest aside I live for the time you do intercept one of these.....
STAY ON TARGET!!!!!!
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:cry
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Melt down. :)
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The thing about hordes is.... There isn't anyone worth fighting in there anyway.
People always talk about flying to a planes strength, well the horde is the same, making up for a weakness (skill) with a strength (numbers). Let them clap themselves on the back and wtg each other for another epic capture, safe in the knowledge that while 50 of them raced each other for one or two vulches, truly great fights were happening elsewhere.
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(http://home.ca.inter.net/~hagelin/SpyTechPeriscope.jpg)
fair warning V horde we know.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
The thing about hordes is.... There isn't anyone worth fighting in there anyway.
People always talk about flying to a planes strength, well the horde is the same, making up for a weakness (skill) with a strength (numbers). Let them clap themselves on the back and wtg each other for another epic capture, safe in the knowledge that while 50 of them raced each other for one or two vulches, truly great fights were happening elsewhere.
QFT
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Jets ftw. That horde looks magically delicious.
(http://www.celebritysentry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1295421612-12.jpg)
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My Tempest and me would have loved that sight :rock
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I was posting threads like this three years ago...
It's time to give up on changing it and just fly "MA style" in the MA and save the 1vs1 acm's for the DA. Otherwise you'll just go bald, like me.
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(http://dautremont.perso.libertysurf.fr/warbirds/Me109G6_c_1.jpg)
mmmmm
she'll get there pretty quick.......
seeing that horde of tards makes me want to log in right now when I should be doing the dishes.
so yeah I guess this is what Hitech wanted LOL!!!
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
There are almost 30 dots in this screen shot, and this is after the attacked had started a few people had scrambled to know a number of them down. In this case they launched off a CV and NOEd in. There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop. Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
My solution was easy enough, I went to another arena. I can see where people could get frustrated and decide it isn't worth it to even play. Is this the way the game is going to be played?
dude, up from neighboring field in a 262 or a k4 and unleash.
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Jets ftw. That horde looks magically delicious.
The last time I ran into a vDevil horde like that in a 262, I flew behind the tail end charlie shot him down. The rest didn't move, so I throttled back and popped the next one and then killed the next one. The whole time they didn't move, or even rock their wings until only 2 or 3 were left.
I don't understand it, they must of seen me or heard their fellows say something about it but they have a mindless determination.
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:lol
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The last time I ran into a vDevil horde like that in a 262, I flew behind the tail end charlie shot him down. The rest didn't move, so I throttled back and popped the next one and then killed the next one. The whole time they didn't move, or even rock their wings until only 2 or 3 were left.
I don't understand it, they must of seen me or heard their fellows say something about it but they have a mindless determination.
The SA of a horde is inversely proportional to the number of it's members. At one point, it's really becoming just a swarm and showing a behaviour associated with that. :old:
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The last time I ran into a vDevil horde like that in a 262, I flew behind the tail end charlie shot him down. The rest didn't move, so I throttled back and popped the next one and then killed the next one. The whole time they didn't move, or even rock their wings until only 2 or 3 were left.
I don't understand it, they must of seen me or heard their fellows say something about it but they have a mindless determination.
exactly same thing happened to me in a K4...doods didnt even rock their wings.....the mishun commander must've kept yelling "stay on target!"
oh and
(http://www.militaryaviation.eu/images/Messerschmitt/Me262_501244.jpg)
jet Pr0n while we are on the subject
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I think it's pretty funny that you'd put Hitech's name in the thread title. This is the guy who said that vulching is a reward, after all. Why the heck do you think he'd be bothered by your pic?
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HiTech actually founded the Claim Jumpers first five wings
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what field was that btw? cuz me and my squad UPed from a CV and took a base t=with F6Fs F4Us and Seafires.
Are you for real, or just a shade used for the purpose of being an arse plus hole? But more to the point......That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
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they're becoming less and less as people find out that hording fields is not as much fun after the first few hundred times. they used to roll specially at night, but now not many rook/knights switch to "help the low side" horde anymore.
semp
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Fight the horde or quit but stop the freakin cryin......its gettin old.
we all moved on so should you.
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Ya lucky dog. I haven't seen a NOE for some time now.
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they're becoming less and less as people find out that hording fields is not as much fun after the first few hundred times. they used to roll specially at night, but now not many rook/knights switch to "help the low side" horde anymore.
semp
Don't worry, the first batch will quit the squad and there will be a new fresh group of recruits...
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I don't care if people hord, just don't. I flew right into one today expecting to die. Didn't though. Neither did I stop the base take as there were 4 goons dropping. Maybe more. Heck it was a sea of red. I only pinged 2 and killed 4 in the herd. At one point during this period I was the only one defending a cv just off shore. I failed there too, lol. Oh well I tried. I need something with multiple war heads.
BTW I don't mind Fugitive if you post this stuff either.
I don't find hordes bad, I find them rich in targets. It is just awesome to fly into one and live to tell the tale or at least annoy them for a few seconds. I think Belial flew into total red the other day and in one pass killed 3 cons.
Most folks have flown in a horde and flown against one. I suspect there are a few who don't.
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Is this what Hitech wants?
I see a blob of paying customers.
As far as I know, I'm sure that's exactly what he wants.
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
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Those darn Bish! They never play fair! :cry
*Looks at sig* :bolt:
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
Brilliant Ranger
and after all its just the V tards.....this little angel could take down that whole HORDING skwad herself
(http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/08/pink_lancer.jpg)
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48 fields, European time, knight buff hordes.
3 knights about for each bishops.
We resisted and got kills for many time before to loose 48.
Knights came with all sort of airplane p39, ki84, spit 16, sea fire, me 262, f4ua, p38, 109, 190, typh.
And there was pt-boat near the run way that was as a irritating mosquito.
48 was lost but much fun.
Especially for those who taked-off and get altitude to avoid enemy
vulching - ask to Kuprinsky p38 for the check :rofl
:salute
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We resisted and got kills for many time before to loose 48.
thats the spirit :rock
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
LOLOLOL Ranger
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Fight the horde or quit but stop the freakin cryin......its gettin old.
we all moved on so should you.
ROFL this coming from one that was rolling with the hordes for year(s) ! when did you finally break on thru to the other side?
you used to run from everyone unless you had at least 2 of your squadmates with you, and all 3 of you had to have a 3 k altitude advantage on the lonewolf or you would still run and hide in the ack
hypocrisy , gotta laugh at it
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
:rofl good one ranger...lmfao!!!
i'm surprised fugitive whined about this...looks like a target rich environment to me...and considering it's bigrubberbullethead's vtard bish skwad ...i'm not surprised
learn to have fun with it dood...
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I was posting threads like this three years ago...
It's time to give up on changing it and just fly "MA style" in the MA and save the 1vs1 acm's for the DA. Otherwise you'll just go bald, like me.
I agree. I quit loosing my mind from hordes and conceded to what the MA has become. Its much healthier that way.
What makes up for the frustration is the laugh I get when they fail. I laughed my arse off when I was at a base and saw some typical hordlings try to pork ords. First guy failed and augured, second guy got shot down in ack. It took them to come in with a group of 5 to finally kill 4 structures and when they finally got the last one...it popped again :rofl :rofl
Let the hordes be. Strength in numbers is just a euphemism that their wee wees are too small and trying to compensate where they are deficient. In this case..WINNING.
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Looks like very good coordination/ mission turnout to me.
Gonna complain about Japanese hoarding Pearl Harbor/ Midway?
Or B17's,24's hoarding during fire bombing raids at Hamburg?
<S> Oz
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
There are almost 30 dots in this screen shot, and this is after the attacked had started a few people had scrambled to know a number of them down. In this case they launched off a CV and NOEd in. There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop. Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
My solution was easy enough, I went to another arena. I can see where people could get frustrated and decide it isn't worth it to even play. Is this the way the game is going to be played?
I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but there's not a single plane in that picture with an ENY below 15. Well, I could be mistaken. There is a Corsair on the left side of the image, but it is most likely a 1 or 1A. If the Delta was available there would be far less Hellcats.
So... the Bish are at an ENY disadvantage but they're not allowed to use their numbers advantage to achieve mission success? Missions that are having success tend to have a lot of gravity anyway, and more and more players tag along. What are we supposed to do; tell them to go somewhere else? And besides, it's not the attacker's responsibility to make sure there is a sufficient defense force already in the air when he arrives at his target. :rolleyes:
They gloat and brag when they pick apart a large mission, but they cry "HORDE!" if Bish rolls through a whole island with little pause. Sounds like the mindset of a crybaby to me. But that's just my opinion, and I know how much weight (or lack thereof) it carries with this lot.
EDIT: For $15/month I'm sure you can persuade any player in the game to play the way you want them to. :aok
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(http://www.american.com/graphics/2007/november/cheese_cellar.jpg)
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Oh gawd, this thread will not end well...
So, pull Ur panties out Ur Vag, wash the sand outta Ur crack, and get over it!
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Is this what Hitech wants?
Not really , whining has never done much for me.
HiTech
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Ouch! Hitech with the dagger! Wtg Fugi, there went the 38H! :)
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What should happen?
-Attack Rook Fields only over 25k?
-a Max upping rate for fields and Cvs? (upping is suspended)
-a limited Gas fueling? (you cant up this field is out of fuel now)
-A squad Horde is coming call Police
-Speed limit at enemy fields
-a Downtime on a field is you ditched,Bailed,crashed,killed ( you cant up on this field for 360 seconds) But that's not good for defending and its from WB.
-ore more whining treads (:( you guys are Bad very Bad :( )
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ya know,,,after being away for what,,idk,,couple years,,,,threads haven't changed a bit,,,well,,,alot more friendly then i remember,,,*seriously congrats on that* this one anyway..
seems to me,,the problem has always been,,,the mass's just want to play a game,,where as the few want a good dog fight,,,well i guess there is no answer that will fix all things for all people..
really just wanted to say hi,,so hi *waves*,,,,those who know me know i can't keep my .02 to myself,,so blast away,,,lol
i'd say i'd dust off my stick,,,but i'm way to lazy to reprogram it
:salute
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ya know,,,after being away for what,,idk,,couple years,,,,threads haven't changed a bit,,,well,,,alot more friendly then i remember,,,*seriously congrats on that* this one anyway..
seems to me,,the problem has always been,,,the mass's just want to play a game,,where as the few want a good dog fight,,,well i guess there is no answer that will fix all things for all people..
really just wanted to say hi,,so hi *waves*,,,,those who know me know i can't keep my .02 to myself,,so blast away,,,lol
i'd say i'd dust off my stick,,,but i'm way to lazy to reprogram it
:salute
how the heck have you been yanksfan? :cheers:
good I hope.... come on back and join us when you get the itch now :old:
TC
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Not really , whining has never done much for me.
HiTech
LOL!!! good joke!
But i'm serious, Is this what you and Pyro thought you where building towards?
Is this the game play environment that "splitting arenas" and"dar heights" and other changes that you where shooting for?
Do you believe that this is the best way to get the 2 weekers signed up and and to keep those subscribers long term?
To the peanut gallery...
Other than avoiding this how would you fight it?
In this case I think it was the Alchemist,V squad, and a number of jokers, and I have to give them credit, they are VERY good at what they do. Everything at the base, all hangers, all ammo, all fuel, and I bet all building (when you haul bombs to the fight you might as well use them) is flatten and all in about 3 to 5 minutes hitting the field first, then any defenders, then the town last. In most cases if you die fast like me :D and up at a near by base in something fast and come in at 1k tops, you are about 5 miles out when they capture and land. At this time they move on someplace else, more often than not the other side of the map to "sneak one" there. Of course the base they just took is so destroyed that they couldn't use it anyway. They are very good.
So if this is the way the game owner/designer wants his game to go I'm willing to try and change to this new way of playing.
How do you fight this? Or do you?
Do we just avoid it? Have three teams of hordes destroying base after base as fast as we can to reset the map?
Do we join the horde our country seems to generate at times and become one of the unthinking locust destroying everything in its path?
I have 6 or 7 thousand fighter perks should I become a tempest/262 dweeb and "pick" my way along the fronts?
I am truly serious here I'd like to know how I should play to still enjoy this game. It's the only game where I get to fly and die often and it doesn't really hurt. I love to fly, and this is the closest I'll ever come to be a pilot. So help me out here. I'm an old dog looking for new tricks. I started out in this game when learning tactics and maneuvers was important. Evidently there is a whole new set of skills I'll need for this.
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come to midwar, hoards are smaller
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Hello Fugitive,
You asked a good question...How do you fight this? Well the honest answer on the initial attack is you can't with any hope of real success. I usually concede the field they are NOE attacking and set up Pig scout flights along lines of approach to the next most likely targets. It seems to work a good percentage of the time, and can lead to some great fights sea, air & land.
:salute
Way
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Hello Fugi,
i know whatcha feel... but i think Flatiron is right. Leave the MA crap alone. I started to fly a 262 after an especially gangy day, then i was called a picktard, a coward runner etc, my eastern blood was too hot to eat the crap so im muted again :banana: im sure you dont wanna be... meet me in the midwar or the DA and lets fight! :salute
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To the peanut gallery...
Other than avoiding this how would you fight it?
Herd cats into lean and mean groups that'll opportunistically fill the void opposing these hordes..
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Ya who knows, but thats what the TEMPEST is for.
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
I was thinking the same.
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Do you believe that this is the best way to get the 2 weekers signed up and and to keep those subscribers long term?
hate to be the one to point it out but...seems to be working...no 2 weekers want to fly around an arena getting owned all the time by all you uber sticks in 1v1s...only to be call noobs for taking a ho shot...and you have been here long enough to know that happens more than people are willing to admit to.
I started out in this game when learning tactics and maneuvers was important.
soooo...those tactics and maneuvers are only good in even fights?
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
YUM!! :x
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Is this base #209 from last night??
Sure looks like it.
They never took the base.
Cv attacks AND Noes provide the best fights in the game imo.
Up to quick low fights, die, up to quick low fights, die. (its a game)
I'd rather do that all day long than have to climb to ridiculous alts to be on an even keel with guys that run away when they see you have equal alt.
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Hello Fugitive,
You asked a good question...How do you fight this? Well the honest answer on the initial attack is you can't with any hope of real success. I usually concede the field they are NOE attacking and set up Pig scout flights along lines of approach to the next most likely targets. It seems to work a good percentage of the time, and can lead to some great fights sea, air & land.
:salute
Way
Well-stated, and you actually voice a well-reasoned use for having large squads! That being said, without having an organized group acting in unison, whords like that nearly always get what they want. One guy in a Tempy or 262 upping at a nearby base....base prolly gone by the time you get there. Any more I log in, normally see 3 areas where 80% of the players are (one whord from each country merrily running over over-matched defenders), try to find an area of relatively evenly matched sides where that stuff ISN'T going on...fly there....half the time dar-bar poofs before I arrive. IMO, that is why Blue ought have small maps....175 guys are a poor fit for a map with 400 sectors. Small maps, whordes such as Fugitive shows can't help but run into the whordes from the opposing sides.
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Hello Fugitive,
You asked a good question...How do you fight this? Well the honest answer on the initial attack is you can't with any hope of real success. I usually concede the field they are NOE attacking and set up Pig scout flights along lines of approach to the next most likely targets. It seems to work a good percentage of the time, and can lead to some great fights sea, air & land.
:salute
Way
Maybe it's time to become a pig :aok
Herd cats into lean and mean groups that'll opportunistically fill the void opposing these hordes..
That sounds like you want me to join the pigs too!
hate to be the one to point it out but...seems to be working...no 2 weekers want to fly around an arena getting owned all the time by all you uber sticks in 1v1s...only to be call noobs for taking a ho shot...and you have been here long enough to know that happens more than people are willing to admit to.
soooo...those tactics and maneuvers are only good in even fights?
I don't know, when I was a 2 weeker 10 years ago I didn't land many kills either, but I'm still here.
Name one maneuver that might work as 10 guys are on you?
Is this base #209 from last night??
Sure looks like it.
They never took the base.
Cv attacks AND Noes provide the best fights in the game imo.
Up to quick low fights, die, up to quick low fights, die. (its a game)
I'd rather do that all day long than have to climb to ridiculous alts to be on an even keel with guys that run away when they see you have equal alt.
No, this was the second one I defended at and in both cases they took the base in 5 minutes. Like I said, they are very good at it.
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im online now killing the horde where you be?
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im online now killing the horde where you be?
Going out to shovel the frickin snow again !!! :furious
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Name one maneuver that might work as 10 guys are on you?
:headscratch: no idea what it's call "officially"...i just call it stick stirring...in a horde like that you generally only end up with 3 or 4 on you, the rest are focused on the base thinking you're gonna get shot down...if you stay in amongst them, you can easily knock a few out of commission...killshooter and the ground works for you.
of course you're not going to survive until help arrives but...do what you can to break them up
would you rather they came in with bombers and escorts like most of the mishunz do? i've been a part of some ak noe mishunz...bombers...fighters. ..goons...base is taken in 5 minutes...not my idea of fun but, it breaks the monotony sometimes.
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Fugi,
I can honestly say I understand where you are coming from. Yesterday I logged in around 1230pm EST, iirc LWOH had about 350 people in it. I looked at the map and it seemed like every base on all sides where flashing and had large dar bars. Either friendly or unfriendly. I must have sat there and stared at the map for 30 min trying to decided if there was even a point to up. So I finally upped by myself in a 51 flew about a sector to a knit base. Apparently it was the first time these Knits had ever seen a B-Pony. 5 guys all trying to get a piece of me. Ok I died, next I went to a base that had a larger friendly dar bar. I there thinking that the enemy will start to up and all I see is 5-6 friendlies on one guy. I finally see a 190D off by his lonesome, so I figure that will by my target. Next thing I know I see tracers going down the axis of my plane. Turns out about 4 friendlies decided to follow along and were trying to kill the guy before me. Finally I logged and went to EW for about 30 min. Then just logged for the day. It seems to me the new mentality is either be in the horde or fly against the horde.
In my opinion (not that it really matters a whole lot) is that the health of the arena during the Off Hours (mainly 12EST to 5pm EST) is rather poor. Oh well what can you do really.
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Going out to shovel the frickin snow again !!! :furious
Heck, that's a great opportunity to burn calories. I've been on a diet and shoveling snow is one monstrous way to burn calories. I've gotten so I shovel my neighbors sidewalks just to burn more.
As far as hordes go it will be a sad day when there are no hordes.
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Going out to shovel the frickin snow again !!! :furious
yeah i had to shovel the sunshine today a blistering 84 outside brrrrrrrrr :bolt:
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no 2 weekers want to fly around an arena getting owned all the time by all you uber sticks in 1v1s
Hmmm ... nine years ago, I remember getting my arse handed to me on a consistent basis by the uber sticks in those days and I am still here, and the reason being ... I wanted to become good enough to put an end to that.
To fly this game and remain in this game, one needs to grow a thicker and bigger sack and realize that you are going to die a whole lot before you tip the scales and kill more than you die.
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:headscratch: no idea what it's call "officially"...i just call it stick stirring...in a horde like that you generally only end up with 3 or 4 on you, the rest are focused on the base thinking you're gonna get shot down...if you stay in amongst them, you can easily knock a few out of commission...killshooter and the ground works for you.
of course you're not going to survive until help arrives but...do what you can to break them up
would you rather they came in with bombers and escorts like most of the mishunz do? i've been a part of some ak noe mishunz...bombers...fighters. ..goons...base is taken in 5 minutes...not my idea of fun but, it breaks the monotony sometimes.
oh I've posted many a time on the type of missions I'd like to see..... buff groups at 10-15k escorted by fighters, both hvy and light, co-ordinated with GVs hitting the base. Fun for everyone in a single mission, but in something like that it takes planning, co-ordination timing and above all skill :devil
Fugi,
I can honestly say I understand where you are coming from. Yesterday I logged in around 1230pm EST, iirc LWOH had about 350 people in it. I looked at the map and it seemed like every base on all sides where flashing and had large dar bars. Either friendly or unfriendly. I must have sat there and stared at the map for 30 min trying to decided if there was even a point to up. So I finally upped by myself in a 51 flew about a sector to a knit base. Apparently it was the first time these Knits had ever seen a B-Pony. 5 guys all trying to get a piece of me. Ok I died, next I went to a base that had a larger friendly dar bar. I there thinking that the enemy will start to up and all I see is 5-6 friendlies on one guy. I finally see a 190D off by his lonesome, so I figure that will by my target. Next thing I know I see tracers going down the axis of my plane. Turns out about 4 friendlies decided to follow along and were trying to kill the guy before me. Finally I logged and went to EW for about 30 min. Then just logged for the day. It seems to me the new mentality is either be in the horde or fly against the horde.
In my opinion (not that it really matters a whole lot) is that the health of the arena during the Off Hours (mainly 12EST to 5pm EST) is rather poor. Oh well what can you do really.
I flew form 130 EASTERN until the arena switch and had a good time, my guess is those "Brits" like to fight :D Once the split happened I went to Orange and hung out there for a couple hours until I got tired of dieing in the horde...I can only stick stir for so long :D Jumped into Blue and had a few good fights against the Knights (thanks Thing, and FBLazy1), but then the fights petered out around 1000 EASTERN so I logged and watched the Bruins beat the Canuks :aok
But like you said for the most part your in the horde chasing a single, or your fighting the horde hoping to take a couple with you as you give up 10 assists and a death per ride
yeah i had to shovel the sunshine today a blistering 84 outside brrrrrrrrr :bolt:
your a "potato" you know that! :D
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Get your 1v1s in the DA, get your furballing in at furball lake, take what you can get in the MA. Idk why this is so hard to compute.
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Get your 1v1s in the DA, get your furballing in at furball lake, take what you can get in the MA. Idk why this is so hard to compute.
It's not the pettiest complaint, there's a guy complaining about people watching the map. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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(http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx154/mohaam0nkey/popcorn.gif)
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ROFL this coming from one that was rolling with the hordes for year(s) ! when did you finally break on thru to the other side?
you used to run from everyone unless you had at least 2 of your squadmates with you, and all 3 of you had to have a 3 k altitude advantage on the lonewolf or you would still run and hide in the ack
hypocrisy , gotta laugh at it
not sure if your talkin bout some one else Im generally by myself I always attack and yes Im sometimes a part of the horde, it happens everywhere get over it... very rarely do I run to ack and If I do im landin due to damg. Ive only been here for bout 3 years as different handles, but lookin over your post you must be talkin bout someone else the most Ive been flyin which is last year or so Im in Germany so most of my squaddies aren't on at the same times. If they are we usually dont fly in the same area. Now if youd like to flame me for flyin a Brew go for it. But you might oughta make sure your talkin to the right person. :P
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ROFL this coming from one that was rolling with the hordes for year(s) ! when did you finally break on thru to the other side?
you used to run from everyone unless you had at least 2 of your squadmates with you, and all 3 of you had to have a 3 k altitude advantage on the lonewolf or you would still run and hide in the ack
hypocrisy , gotta laugh at it
And you know this how? He is not a part of a buffing/landgrabbing squad. This must be a shade account or you just don't know what you are talking about.
All the Best...
Jay
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Mojo is most certainly thinking of another Vudu, as The Flying Circus doesn't operate that way.
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For the record, there is nothing wrong with hording or land grabbing. It is part of the game.
My Tempest and me would have loved that sight :rock
Real men fly a Hurricane Mk I.
Seriously, low cv raids are my favorite. It takes a little luck to get off the runway before the hangars go down, or to have a nearby field from which to respond.
The perfect scenario is to have the cv close enough to keep the attackers low, but far enough away to keep the puffy ack off the field/town.
Hello Fugitive,
You asked a good question...How do you fight this? Well the honest answer on the initial attack is you can't with any hope of real success. I usually concede the field they are NOE attacking and set up Pig scout flights along lines of approach to the next most likely targets. It seems to work a good percentage of the time, and can lead to some great fights sea, air & land.
:salute
Way
Good response. Hordes are not that ingenious. After one or two, it gets pretty easy to guess their objectives.
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Fugi,
I can honestly say I understand where you are coming from. Yesterday I logged in around 1230pm EST, iirc LWOH had about 350 people in it. I looked at the map and it seemed like every base on all sides where flashing and had large dar bars. Either friendly or unfriendly. I must have sat there and stared at the map for 30 min trying to decided if there was even a point to up. So I finally upped by myself in a 51 flew about a sector to a knit base. Apparently it was the first time these Knits had ever seen a B-Pony. 5 guys all trying to get a piece of me. Ok I died, next I went to a base that had a larger friendly dar bar. I there thinking that the enemy will start to up and all I see is 5-6 friendlies on one guy. I finally see a 190D off by his lonesome, so I figure that will by my target. Next thing I know I see tracers going down the axis of my plane. Turns out about 4 friendlies decided to follow along and were trying to kill the guy before me. Finally I logged and went to EW for about 30 min. Then just logged for the day. It seems to me the new mentality is either be in the horde or fly against the horde.
In my opinion (not that it really matters a whole lot) is that the health of the arena during the Off Hours (mainly 12EST to 5pm EST) is rather poor. Oh well what can you do really.
My experiences of late are quite similar to this. Most hard to find battles between somewhat equally-matched sides. It subtly forces you to forever get ganged/get discouraged, join your OWN whorde, or toddle around in a 262/Tempest-etc picking around the edges. I find none of those scenarios appetizing
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Notice all those planes you're complaining about are 15 ENY or above.
Stop complaining, Spawn a wirble and throw out the alert. It's a lot easier to hold ground than to take it and leaving the arena so you can complain about what happened after you didn't put forth any effort to stop it is just ridiculous. I bet you're just squeakalicious.
vWNTRGRN
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I bet you're just squeakalicious.
vWNTRGRN
:rofl :lol you might want to rethink that...
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Notice all those planes you're complaining about are 15 ENY or above.
Stop complaining, Spawn a wirble and throw out the alert. It's a lot easier to hold ground than to take it and leaving the arena so you can complain about what happened after you didn't put forth any effort to stop it is just ridiculous. I bet you're just squeakalicious.
vWNTRGRN
Wow !!! LOL!! I was at BOTH attacks I mentioned, and got a kill or two at BOTH attacks I mentioned, upped from an adjacent base after the hangers were down at BOTH attacks, killed two ack huggers at the first, and found nobody around at the second.
Did you even read the posts or did you just look at the pictures like a regular kid and go from that?
go finish your home work, let the grown ups have a discussion.
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Notice all those planes you're complaining about are 15 ENY or above.
Stop complaining, Spawn a wirble and throw out the alert. It's a lot easier to hold ground than to take it and leaving the arena so you can complain about what happened after you didn't put forth any effort to stop it is just ridiculous. I bet you're just squeakalicious.
vWNTRGRN
You know, you're right! :aok I bet it never occurred to them to bring bombs, and pffft, everyone knows F4's and F6's and Zekes cant kill you! (OK...the SBD would have a bit of trouble, unless he egged you)
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He's in the Angels Brigade, they are far from being "thinkers".
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anyone seen my flame proof clown suit and nose?
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No flame suit needed.
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There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop.
Hop in the shore battery, or up from the next base in buffs, and sink the CV. Grab a 262 and go goon hunting - they're not going to take the base in 5 minutes unless they have a goon on station. Get about 6 like-minded teammates and fly in from the next base high in fast planes. Pork ords and troops at nearby bases. Find a base that's more important to them than this one and organize an attack on it.
Or best of all, since you hate land grabbing and war-winning, just ignore them and go somewhere else to fight. Why do you care if they take the base? Does it ruin your day knowing that somewhere else, maybe in another arena, other people are having fun in a way you don't approve of?
Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Perhaps what you should be asking, or better yet suggesting, is what exactly they're supposed to do about it.
Zone-based ENY would be a start, but they don't seem too hip to the idea.
They already upped the town capture percentage to 75%, so apparently that wasn't the source of the trouble after all.
Btw, you mentioned going to LWOH for better fighting - when I logged off LWOH, there were 52 nits, 51 rooks, and 33 bish, and no more than 2-3 nits and rooks visible on dar along their whole front. Most of the nits were hitting A43, and just about every one of those 51 rooks who were in the air were at A5, there must have been 40 of them (and they still hadn't taken the field after 15+ minutes when I logged, nor had the nits taken 43 - they seemed to give up after we killed their goons and came in only looking for vulches and picks, which shows it is possible to beat a horde attack, even after they've taken FHs down). This is not an issue limited to one one side or one group of players.
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I've conceded to no longer argue against it, but I'd like to be clear that I'm not agreeing with these retards either.
It's just not going to change. ie hitechs response.
Grief them with jet wingmen until they spam spawn m3's. And then vultch them while they're sitting on the runway waiting to land as a squad. :t :lol
And then head to the DA and look up the DA group...
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
brilliant
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dude, seriously, whining about vGuys???
just up from a neighboring field and kill as many as you can... I do it whenever I see them... Its fun and its a treat. I'm glad they attack bases, sometimes its the only fight in the arena. I think vAuger almost expects to find me these days... and if I'm around, I find him first ;)
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Nice counter attack loki, but fail. Yes the knits are hoarding too, especially with our 2.0+ perk bonus last week :aok
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Hop in the shore battery, or up from the next base in buffs, and sink the CV. Grab a 262 and go goon hunting - they're not going to take the base in 5 minutes unless they have a goon on station. Get about 6 like-minded teammates and fly in from the next base high in fast planes. Pork ords and troops at nearby bases. Find a base that's more important to them than this one and organize an attack on it.
As far as I know these hordes have no "tactical" reason for their attacks. I believe they are just grouping together to caputre a base and pat each other on the back. So, with that being the case there really is no rhyme or reason for which base that are going to. So porking bases doesn't bother them as they just move to some other base and launch from there.
Or best of all, since you hate land grabbing and war-winning, just ignore them and go somewhere else to fight. Why do you care if they take the base? Does it ruin your day knowing that somewhere else, maybe in another arena, other people are having fun in a way you don't approve of?
I don't know where you got the idea I hate land grabbing and war winning. I looked and I have almost 100 captures of my own. I have run hundreds of missions, and "won the war many times. I have nothing against it as it is a MAJOR part of the game. The problem is I like to work for it, I like a challenge. Fight for a defended base, if the numbers are not more than 2 to 1 for either side it's a fun night of battle. The problem now is either your IN the horde, or your AGAINST the horde. It's getting harder and harder to find a fight any where other than the hordes.
Perhaps what you should be asking, or better yet suggesting, is what exactly they're supposed to do about it.
Zone-based ENY would be a start, but they don't seem too hip to the idea.
They already upped the town capture percentage to 75%, so apparently that wasn't the source of the trouble after all.
Btw, you mentioned going to LWOH for better fighting - when I logged off LWOH, there were 52 nits, 51 rooks, and 33 bish, and no more than 2-3 nits and rooks visible on dar along their whole front. Most of the nits were hitting A43, and just about every one of those 51 rooks who were in the air were at A5, there must have been 40 of them (and they still hadn't taken the field after 15+ minutes when I logged, nor had the nits taken 43 - they seemed to give up after we killed their goons and came in only looking for vulches and picks, which shows it is possible to beat a horde attack, even after they've taken FHs down). This is not an issue limited to one one side or one group of players.
I mentioned going to Orange first, but I do that because it's where all the "kool" people play, I was gone from there by 7 eastern and there was about 300 people in the arena. Yes this happens on all sides. Like I said it's pretty much becoming either fight in your countries horde, or against the other countries horde. And yes you can find a nice little fight now and then, unfortunately you find horde much more often.
So far the suggestions are,
Join a squad that has good numbers.
Fly in the DA for 1vs1 or furball lake for multiple cons.
Don't fly against the hordes.
So if HTC wants the game to continue in this direction, these are my options? Any others?
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Join a squad that has good numbers.
who will be my bait?
check ur pm
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So if HTC wants the game to continue in this direction, these are my options? Any others?
I would like something to be done to make it much much harder to cap a field. Setting up the vultch is too easy, in my opinion. Personally, I will up at an attacked base over and over, until the runway vultching starts. Then I'm done and move somewhere else on the map. Low altitude, turn and burn against the hoarde can be fun. Getting vultched on the runway is never fun, and is not good for the game in my opinion.
Also, I think that there should be multiple vehicle hangars and they should be hardened. Harden the aircraft hangars too, for that matter. Make it harder to shut the field down, not impossible, just harder.
I also believe that the defenders should have a vehicle spawn that spawns IN the town. It makes sense that a military power would have defenses set up in a strategic town, allowing a spawn directly into town can simulate this.
I think all of these ideas of mine would encourage the base taking crowd to at least be forced to bring more of a combined force. Bombers, fighters, maybe even GVs.
Just some thoughts.
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I like fighting against the horde. The more action the better! On the other hand being part of a horde gets old real quick. There's no real fun, or honor, in overpowering a base.
I have seen some real coordinated attacks by the enemy combining dive bombers, attack planes and fighters which I thought was pretty cool. I sat in the tower and watched it unfold. Pretty neat!
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I would like something to be done to make it much much harder to cap a field. Setting up the vultch is too easy, in my opinion. Personally, I will up at an attacked base over and over, until the runway vultching starts. Then I'm done and move somewhere else on the map. Low altitude, turn and burn against the hoarde can be fun. Getting vultched on the runway is never fun, and is not good for the game in my opinion.
Also, I think that there should be multiple vehicle hangars and they should be hardened. Harden the aircraft hangars too, for that matter. Make it harder to shut the field down, not impossible, just harder.
I also believe that the defenders should have a vehicle spawn that spawns IN the town. It makes sense that a military power would have defenses set up in a strategic town, allowing a spawn directly into town can simulate this.
I think all of these ideas of mine would encourage the base taking crowd to at least be forced to bring more of a combined force. Bombers, fighters, maybe even GVs.
Just some thoughts.
IMO Hardening hangars is only going to exacerbate the "hording" problem. It takes four heavy Ponies to kill the FH's and VH at a Small Airfield. If the hangars are hardened then it'll take twice as many aircraft to achieve the same goal.
I like the v-spawn in town idea though. It might make captures way more difficult than intended though if ten tanks can instantly be hiding in town waiting for the troops to come walking by. And then you have to have a really good GV'er come by and kill him or you need ANOTHER plane with eggs. It's a cool idea though, I hope HiTech gives it some thought (if this isn't the first time someone's thought of it).
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I would like something to be done to make it much much harder to cap a field. Setting up the vultch is too easy, in my opinion. Personally, I will up at an attacked base over and over, until the runway vultching starts. Then I'm done and move somewhere else on the map. Low altitude, turn and burn against the hoarde can be fun. Getting vultched on the runway is never fun, and is not good for the game in my opinion.
Also, I think that there should be multiple vehicle hangars and they should be hardened. Harden the aircraft hangars too, for that matter. Make it harder to shut the field down, not impossible, just harder.
I also believe that the defenders should have a vehicle spawn that spawns IN the town. It makes sense that a military power would have defenses set up in a strategic town, allowing a spawn directly into town can simulate this.
I think all of these ideas of mine would encourage the base taking crowd to at least be forced to bring more of a combined force. Bombers, fighters, maybe even GVs.
Just some thoughts.
No making it harder is only going to make the hordes bigger.
I like the idea of localized ENY helping to control numbers in small areas instead of map wide. While being "hindered" would be a PIA, it would certainly get the horde down.
I also think tying the base/field to enemy numbers a good idea. If you bring in a horde to capture a base the hardness goes up, percentage needed down in town goes up. Bring a smaller force and you need less of the town down, and hardness returns to normal for hangers. It would bring the mission more in line to where defender might be able to defend a bit. It would also give smaller squads/group a chance to take bases.
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No making it harder is only going to make the hordes bigger.
I like the idea of localized ENY helping to control numbers in small areas instead of map wide. While being "hindered" would be a PIA, it would certainly get the horde down.
I also think tying the base/field to enemy numbers a good idea. If you bring in a horde to capture a base the hardness goes up, percentage needed down in town goes up. Bring a smaller force and you need less of the town down, and hardness returns to normal for hangers. It would bring the mission more in line to where defender might be able to defend a bit. It would also give smaller squads/group a chance to take bases.
That last paragraph contains an idea that is about as "gamey" as it gets.
Manned guns and a VH in town would ease the horde problem substantially. Until they get knocked out, that is.
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No making it harder is only going to make the hordes bigger.
I like the idea of localized ENY helping to control numbers in small areas instead of map wide. While being "hindered" would be a PIA, it would certainly get the horde down.
I also think tying the base/field to enemy numbers a good idea. If you bring in a horde to capture a base the hardness goes up, percentage needed down in town goes up. Bring a smaller force and you need less of the town down, and hardness returns to normal for hangers. It would bring the mission more in line to where defender might be able to defend a bit. It would also give smaller squads/group a chance to take bases.
I'm not sure that harder targets would cause larger hoards. I think there is a point where the hoard masters can no longer draw more people into their base taking missions. Each side still has a percentage of pilots who will not join a hoard. I can't remember the last giant mission I joined. In fact, the only base take that I have been a part of this tour was a small squad only affair (8 pilots I think) to sink a CV and take a port all in one fell swoop. I flew the goon. First time I had done that in a very long time.
But I am willing to agree that it might cause bigger hoards. But like I said before, for me, the bigger issue is the vultching. I'd like to see new ideas to help curtail the vultch. Not eliminate it, but make it riskier for those who look for their easy kills that way.
I am curious how the localized ENY would work. Honestly, I don't think it would do much against the hoards. As it happens, there are high ENY planes that work quite nicely for knocking towns down. Back in my mission joining days, I remember many many 190A8 base captures. Localized ENY might help defenders hold on, if they manage to get up in time to prevent the regular hoard rolling of a field. But I think the problem is that it is to easy for a large group to come in and simply overwhelm a base in minutes. Maybe if localized ENY affected town hardness maybe.
Even better might be for localized ENY to affect how long things such as hangars and town buildings stay down too. Even that wouldn't stop the big hoards from rolling bases.
Maybe localized ENY that lowers the radar/dar coverage lower and lower to the deck? That might help by giving warning of large NOE groups, maybe a defense can get airborn. I think there are some potentially interesting possibilities. This is my favorite idea, because it would be the hardest to game the game.
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Manned guns and a VH in town would ease the horde problem substantially. Until they get knocked out, that is.
Tie the town VH to the base VH, so they both must be knocked out to disable GVs. I don't want it to be impossible to take a base, and I certainly don't want to make it impossible for small squads to do on their own, I'm just hoping for ideas that prevent bases from falling because there was no way to defend them.
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That sounds like you want me to join the pigs too!
Ahem
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That last paragraph contains an idea that is about as "gamey" as it gets.
I agree. But this
Even better might be for localized ENY to affect how long things such as hangars and town buildings stay down too.
Sounds like a great alternative. Having structures magically take more ordnance to destroy sounds odd, imo, but having them recharge faster when the enemy vastly outnumbers the defenders doesn't sound so bad.
But frankly, I don't think anything (reasonable) is ever going to stop hordes.
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(http://dautremont.perso.libertysurf.fr/warbirds/Me109G6_c_1.jpg)
mmmmm
she'll get there pretty quick.......
seeing that horde of tards makes me want to log in right now when I should be doing the dishes.
so yeah I guess this is what Hitech wanted LOL!!!
You just made me ruin a bunch of Kleenex. The beauty, aaaah...
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That last paragraph contains an idea that is about as "gamey" as it gets.
Manned guns and a VH in town would ease the horde problem substantially. Until they get knocked out, that is.
How would it be "gamey"? The larger force attacking would make you think that it's a more important target, so it would lead us to better defense as for as better troops to rebuild, or make bunkers reinforced and such.
The idea here is if you want to bring a large force, you have a lot of work to do, a smaller force not as much. Both being a challenge either way.
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Maybe you should come along on one of our sweeps Fugitive. Most likely all die but have a blast shredding the horde before we go. At least give the base being attacked a chance to get more defenders before we all go down.
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Well if you can't win using skill maybe you can complain the rules until they favor you.
I've got an idea for you, think about all the things you'd like to change in this game. Then wish in one hand, defecate in the other and see which one fills up first.
<S>
vWNTRGRN
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Well if you can't win using skill maybe you can complain the rules until they favor you.
I've got an idea for you, think about all the things you'd like to change in this game. Then wish in one hand, defecate in the other and see which one fills up first.
<S>
vWNTRGRN
I'm surprised you can spell "skill" because I'm certain you have no clue as to what it is. Just as an idea, skill is using a carpenter hammer to drive a 6 penny nail into a 2x4 with one hit, what you guys do is like driving over the 2x4 and nail with a steamroller. No skill needed.
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whose got a vid of a little kid throwing a tantrum cause its needed here......................... ........................ :airplane:
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Right here but unfortunately its a World Of Warcraft Freakout.
God I love evil younger siblings who place hidden cameras.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
There are almost 30 dots in this screen shot, and this is after the attacked had started a few people had scrambled to know a number of them down. In this case they launched off a CV and NOEd in. There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop. Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
My solution was easy enough, I went to another arena. I can see where people could get frustrated and decide it isn't worth it to even play. Is this the way the game is going to be played?
simple...
Step 1, take a 51 out of a nearby base.
Step 2, BnZ one
Step 3, climb out
Step 3, BnZ a second/third
Step 4, climb out
Step 5, wash rinse and repeat from step 2 on :aok
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I think the game is fine the way it is. :salute
If you don't like hordes, stay away from them.
Its not like there's not enough room on a map.
Its almost the same answer I get when I whine about alt monkey pickers or vulchers. :salute
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To answer your question - yes, it is what HT wants.
He is running a business, he has said many times that he expects turnover in his customers.
None of your complaints are new, the gameplay 'changed' back in 2003 or so when the emphasis shifted from fighting to landgrabbing. That is a philosophy of the playerbase, not something HT has any control over. If anything, he is hindering the wishes of his playerbase by keeping AH well, AH. By that I mean he is making the game available as a 'flight-centric' land grab game, which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. It is time for the game to really go head to head with WW2OL and become a ground focused landgrab game with infantry, artillery, AT guns, the works. The fact that AH already has the best 'combat flight sim' on the market will just be icing on the cake.
IMO, AH's playerbase hasn't wanted an 'air combat simulator' for quite a few years now. They want a 'war simulator'. Instead they have to try to adapt 'war simulator' tactics to a combat flight sim game. It can work, but HT isn't giving them many tools, and he gives the defenders even fewer, as the people who are still trying to play an air combat game keep 'whining' about.
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Other than avoiding this how would you fight it?
I went against one of their hordes a few nights ago in my F4U-1A. It actually happened accidentally... I saw a dar building, and lifted to intercept it.
On my climb-out, I saw an escorted group of bombers above me. One of my favorite things is to go up against a flock of escorted bombers, and kill the bombers without resorting to killing the escorts until after their bombers are dead, lol, so I began to climb up to them. They climbed higher and I was finally able to get a shot and a kill on the bombers at around 18K. I had to evade the P51 a few times before that... Suddenly, I realized that the enemy was all around me, in unbelievable numbers. I think the only thing that saved me was that I was now up above most (but not all) of them. So I actually hung around, and got a few kills on the fringes. That got my confidence up, so I came in and dropped in on a few at the field and town. Overall, that went poorly, and I had to beat a prudent retreat out over the water.
Fortunately, I only had maybe 15 guys chase me out of the swarm, and I can run like the wind, lol! As soon as we lost icon range on the congealed mass of red icons, most of the gaggle on my six realized the danger they were in and turned back for the group. That left only about 5 on me, but they were also gaining. I decided to give it another 5 seconds, try to enter a subtle curve to get then in "one spot" on my six (bunched up), and go for broke with an overshoot attempt (kill one or two on my way out?). But, as I began my turn, all but one turned off. Sweet! So, I killed him.
Now, my confidence is really up, but I'm low, so I decide to climb back up to 10K or so, and head back in. That idea went well, at least until I reached about 6K and got spotted by a 12k (or so) F4U-1D. He attacked me, so I killed him too. Back to the climbing idea (I'm pretty low again...), but now they captured the field, and I'm low on fuel, so I head home and land my kills instead. I admit, I did crack a "congratulatory" comment on 200 about how I was surprised they'd been able to capture the field with such a small force...
Now, I never saw another defender at our field... Not only that, but I wasn't the highest guy, nor fastest guy. The only reason I was above 12K (my normal alt for attacking large groups) was because of the bombers. But, I actually got "called out" by a member of the attacking party because I'd had so much alt! LMAO!! Ignore the fact that I was alone against what? 75 or 80 pilots? Seriously, I admit it, I have trouble with 3 on ones! Sometimes even with 2 on 1's! I'm dead meat in a 4 on 1 almost every time!
That comment from him made my night! I loved it! LOL! Makes me look forward to the next opportunity!
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yeah. AH is really just a combat flight sim with other features included i.e. naval battles. it has a really small percentage of vehicles/aircraft that can actually put up a fight once theres even one or two bogies over the airfield (although i have fun with the PT boat with its 7-10 guns. :D)
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Hordes lol Fly right threw them hunt down there goons and kill'em then turn back and club the seals as they flounder :aok
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Best way to horde undisturbed is just to set up barrier cap for them coming from other field to help out. Specially 262s are very vulnerable during climb out.
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My 2 cents:
You will always get this kind of behaviour (hordeing/zerging/whatever) in any game where it is an effective way of 'winning'. Even if it's a meaningless kind of win.
The people who prefer challenging, skilled fights always seem to be in the minority for some reason, from my large experience of online gaming.
Just try to accept that, and re-up away from the horde (friendly or enemy) if you don't like that style of play.
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My 2 cents:
You will always get this kind of behaviour (hordeing/zerging/whatever) in any game where it is an effective way of 'winning'. Even if it's a meaningless kind of win.
The people who prefer challenging, skilled fights always seem to be in the minority for some reason, from my large experience of online gaming.
Just try to accept that, and re-up away from the horde (friendly or enemy) if you don't like that style of play.
It isn't just in online gaming that people behave that way...
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very true Ardy, but as this is an online gaming forum I thought I should restrain my overwhelming natural cynicism, and direct it to the topic at hand rather than the human race as a whole ;)
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Yestarday at 44 field, battle evolution.
I kind of Knight booring strategy.
They started from a near field and they were more then us.
They went up until 12k and more.
Many p51, la7 - and one 'bastard' brew :lol that did not want to died !
We bishop, went out and fight them.
It was funny, except for the time we loose to climb and merge vs knights.
Many times i avoid to climb so high also if i knew that i cannot land my kills because picktards dove.
But it was also true that those picktards had more bellybutton then brain :D
Much fun.
:salute
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Can we stop complaining about this, please?
This horse's soul has past on to the afterlife long ago, rest his soul... :pray
No.
Its a legitimate complaint.
Personally Im tired of logging on and seeing most people fighting mostly where other people arent. Its one of the primary reasons I dont spend as much time in game as I used to.
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Hello Fugitive,
It seems to work a good percentage of the time, and can lead to some great fights sea, air & land.
:salute
Way
Yes cant deny it can lead to some great fights
Problem is. More times then not,just about as soon as any kind of real defense is upped or it becomes obvious the quick capture isnt going to happen. The horde again moves to where people arent.
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IMO Hardening hangars is only going to exacerbate the "hording" problem. It takes four heavy Ponies to kill the FH's and VH at a Small Airfield. If the hangars are hardened then it'll take twice as many aircraft to achieve the same goal.
I like the v-spawn in town idea though. It might make captures way more difficult than intended though if ten tanks can instantly be hiding in town waiting for the troops to come walking by. And then you have to have a really good GV'er come by and kill him or you need ANOTHER plane with eggs. It's a cool idea though, I hope HiTech gives it some thought (if this isn't the first time someone's thought of it).
Rather then in town GV spawns. perhaps just have a spawn point closer to the town.
Also (And I'd like to see this anyway) Return to zones.
Zone bases and zone strats. Only place the strats near the towns. also have a railroad running through the towns. This would certainly aid on realism as the townspeople would most certainly work in the strat factories as well as aid in the defense of the town.
Having the railroad run through the town would serve the same purpose.
These would also provide something for the GVers to fight in, around, and over control of.
Although. On the down side. Making things harder only contributes to the horde mentality. As it becomes more and more necessary to bring more people to take a field.
The only real solution to the horde is to break them up. Impose field limits like we would have IRL. This would force the larger hordes to up from several different bases rather then just 1. Which would force true thought in planning and coordination. Gimme a break. The only intelligence required for planning and coordination a horde mission now is the ability to play follow the leader. And I think most of us learned that game in kindergarten.
If you force them to up from multiple bases. You force thought and coordination. To meet up at a specific time and place AFTER the mission has been launched. It also increases the likely hood that such a mission would be spotted in advance and because the mission is broken up into smaller segments. It makes it easier for smaller numbers of defenders to disrupt portions of the mission if spotted.
In the end you would also have fights spread out over a wider front almost by default. Which in itself would be an improvement. particularly on the large maps
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If the Delta was available there would be far less Hellcats.
POTW uses Hellcats more then the Delta............Hellcat=pwn
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It is time for the game to really go head to head with WW2OL and become a ground focused landgrab game with infantry, artillery, AT guns, the works. The fact that AH already has the best 'combat flight sim' on the market will just be icing on the cake.
:aok +1000
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Personally Im tired of logging on and seeing most people fighting mostly where other people arent. Its one of the primary reasons I dont spend as much time in game as I used to.
Yup! Totally agree Dred.
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Rather then in town GV spawns. perhaps just have a spawn point closer to the town.
Also (And I'd like to see this anyway) Return to zones.
Zone bases and zone strats. Only place the strats near the towns. also have a railroad running through the towns. This would certainly aid on realism as the townspeople would most certainly work in the strat factories as well as aid in the defense of the town.
Having the railroad run through the town would serve the same purpose.
These would also provide something for the GVers to fight in, around, and over control of.
Although. On the down side. Making things harder only contributes to the horde mentality. As it becomes more and more necessary to bring more people to take a field.
The only real solution to the horde is to break them up. Impose field limits like we would have IRL. This would force the larger hordes to up from several different bases rather then just 1. Which would force true thought in planning and coordination. Gimme a break. The only intelligence required for planning and coordination a horde mission now is the ability to play follow the leader. And I think most of us learned that game in kindergarten.
If you force them to up from multiple bases. You force thought and coordination. To meet up at a specific time and place AFTER the mission has been launched. It also increases the likely hood that such a mission would be spotted in advance and because the mission is broken up into smaller segments. It makes it easier for smaller numbers of defenders to disrupt portions of the mission if spotted.
In the end you would also have fights spread out over a wider front almost by default. Which in itself would be an improvement. particularly on the large maps
That's a good post :aok
I've always wondered why when flattening a base if you aren't going to kill all the hangars you might as well of not killed any. It seems to me if only one fighter hangar was left standing there should be a lot less fighters taking off (or maybe just higher ENY fighters). If a field can only support a certain number of aircraft in the air at a time (or a certain number of aircraft taking off every 2 minutes or so) it would definitely require more strategy in large missions and the game would be just a bit more realistic.
However, dweebs and nubs might be able to unintentionally (or intentionally :mad:) ruin the game for their countrymen if they have a habit of wasting aircraft.
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Rather then in town GV spawns. perhaps just have a spawn point closer to the town.
Also (And I'd like to see this anyway) Return to zones.
Zone bases and zone strats. Only place the strats near the towns. also have a railroad running through the towns. This would certainly aid on realism as the townspeople would most certainly work in the strat factories as well as aid in the defense of the town.
Having the railroad run through the town would serve the same purpose.
These would also provide something for the GVers to fight in, around, and over control of.
Although. On the down side. Making things harder only contributes to the horde mentality. As it becomes more and more necessary to bring more people to take a field.
The only real solution to the horde is to break them up. Impose field limits like we would have IRL. This would force the larger hordes to up from several different bases rather then just 1. Which would force true thought in planning and coordination. Gimme a break. The only intelligence required for planning and coordination a horde mission now is the ability to play follow the leader. And I think most of us learned that game in kindergarten.
If you force them to up from multiple bases. You force thought and coordination. To meet up at a specific time and place AFTER the mission has been launched. It also increases the likely hood that such a mission would be spotted in advance and because the mission is broken up into smaller segments. It makes it easier for smaller numbers of defenders to disrupt portions of the mission if spotted.
In the end you would also have fights spread out over a wider front almost by default. Which in itself would be an improvement. particularly on the large maps
Creates another problem(s).
What about a field that is being defended, but someone decides to up a mission from there. If you have field limits, you have eliminated anyone from defending the field. That mission may sit in the tower 5 to 10 minutes before launching, so now, in theory at least, you could have a field that is totally defenseless while everyone is in the tower waiting for the mission to start.
I could really see this as a problem for GV's. Players are attempting to spawn out of a field to an opposing or even friendly field, but is unable to do so because a mission is in the tower waiting to launch.
Now I know you big time bad fly only expert cartoon pilots who think GVing is beneath you really don't care, but there is a large contingent of players that enjoy the GVing side of the game, and I would hate to see my fun thwarted because a few get upset because they preceive there is some big problem with large groups of players attacking a field in a way they don't like.
Same old complaint, different thread.
MY OPINION
Fred
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That's a good post :aok
I've always wondered why when flattening a base if you aren't going to kill all the hangars you might as well of not killed any. It seems to me if only one fighter hangar was left standing there should be a lot less fighters taking off (or maybe just higher ENY fighters). If a field can only support a certain number of aircraft in the air at a time (or a certain number of aircraft taking off every 2 minutes or so) it would definitely require more strategy in large missions and the game would be just a bit more realistic.
However, dweebs and nubs might be able to unintentionally (or intentionally :mad:) ruin the game for their countrymen if they have a habit of wasting aircraft.
Or, consider the CV. As it sits now, 1 CV is as good as a fleet. I'd like to see an experimental arena where CV's and fields have a finite number of aircraft. Clearly, this would impede fights-on-demand but it would add realism. Perhaps the way to do this would be to limit the number of uppers from any field on a first-come, first-served basis. A loss of one upper would open the queue to the next upper, possibly with some "transfer" time delay. In this way, the local concertrations would be far more realistic. Uppers from distant bases would be under range pressure. Hording would require command and coordination.
Even before this, though, I'd like to see CV limits. That way, 4 CV's would be a massive force but 1 would be approx. 30-odd fighters - with similar-sized contingents of dive-bombers and torp bombers.
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I remember a time in AH when a hoard equaled two players: one player to kill the town...and the other in a Goon to make the capture...both NOE!
We have come far with our complaints to HTC.
Dang! How time flies....
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Fight the horde or quit but stop the freakin cryin......its gettin old.
we all moved on so should you.
Fix your sig, it's getting old looking at failed code :P
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
You beat me to it :rofl
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I was wondering, is it?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/ahss14.jpg)
There are almost 30 dots in this screen shot, and this is after the attacked had started a few people had scrambled to know a number of them down. In this case they launched off a CV and NOEd in. There is no way to defend against this type of attack (thats why they do it!) Even if the defenders had 30 guys sitting in the tower waiting for the next attack it would be almost impossible to stop. Is this the type of game play that Hitech wants. Unstoppable hordes going from base to base just flattening everything like a horde of locust.
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
My solution was easy enough, I went to another arena. I can see where people could get frustrated and decide it isn't worth it to even play. Is this the way the game is going to be played?
I beg to differ this point :D Up a JUG, it makes it much more difficult yet much more satisfying to tower some of the horde!
That asside, I guarantee with hordes like this most hordlings maybe 75% are hovering above the field eager for vulch and cherry love, they are waiting for someone braver than them to deack and set up what they would call a fight. the other 25% are actually at work taking the field, I say <S> to those 25% at least this 25% is commited to something even if I don't do that certain "something" myself.
Once again I say make any kills on concrete meaningless, this might limit the amount of "hyenas" glomming to such a base capture hoping to improve their "fighter score" with the choggies :aok
At the minimum this might limit the tards who show up, thereby limiting the horde :)
Just a thought
JUGgler
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Once again I say make any kills on concrete meaningless
+1
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+1
How many definitions of "on the concrete" would HT have to coad, then?
<scenario>
I shoot player X until his plane looks like swiss cheese.
Player X belly lands "on the concrete" but just a bit too fast and explodes.
<scenario>
Do I now not get the kill because he was "on the concrete?
You have been playing long enough to know that the easiest fix is to not land or take-off from a capped field.
The ones that do either are just as bad as the vulchers as they are exposing themselves to being vulched.
If everyone stopped upping for 30 seconds, the cappers get bored and go help with town or something else, usually.
Then there is a better chance of getting off of the field.
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any time I read a thread like this I think back to the days when the arenas were capped at 120. No more than 40 players per side max. To me those were the best times, the best fights. You get an arena with 350+ people in it and gameplay just goes to hell.
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any time I read a thread like this I think back to the days when the arenas were capped at 120. No more than 40 players per side max. To me those were the best times, the best fights. You get an arena with 350+ people in it and gameplay just goes to hell.
One cannot always be all-inclusive.
I had a blast so far in this scenario. :aok
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Jug, Ikd love to try picking people out of a horde like this, but like I said earlier, they are good at what they do.
They come in NOE and pop at the dar ring. They come strait to the field and kill everything, then they kill any uppers left, then they kill the town. From dar to capture takes about 5-6 minuets. If you up from the next field over you might get ther in time to see the last couple land.
Then, they don't up there because the base is flat, so they up spmeplace else, not to take a base any where near the one they just took, because people are alert in that area.
So you land and up again trying to guess the next area of attack, or you can sit in the tower to try and react quicker on the next dar flash.
Seeing as ratting out a CV that is hidden and ruining someones fun is not liked by HTC, and getting mauled by horde after and having the defender fun ruin isn't bad just keeps me mystified as to "how to play this game"
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No.
Its a legitimate complaint.
Personally Im tired of logging on and seeing most people fighting mostly where other people arent. Its one of the primary reasons I dont spend as much time in game as I used to.
Do you mean horizontaly or vertically??
I find that more people avoid fighting using altitude as a hiding place.
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One cannot always be all-inclusive.
I had a blast so far in this scenario. :aok
What you mean by "scenario" ? a planned event is a completely different animal. I'm talking about main arena free for all environment.
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How many definitions of "on the concrete" would HT have to coad, then?
<scenario>
I shoot player X until his plane looks like swiss cheese.
Player X belly lands "on the concrete" but just a bit too fast and explodes.
<scenario>
Do I now not get the kill because he was "on the concrete?
You have been playing long enough to know that the easiest fix is to not land or take-off from a capped field.
The ones that do either are just as bad as the vulchers as they are exposing themselves to being vulched.
If everyone stopped upping for 30 seconds, the cappers get bored and go help with town or something else, usually.
Then there is a better chance of getting off of the field.
Simple: Aircraft below landing speed touching friendly pavement.
Hell, I might even be able to code that! :D
If (aircraft = 1) AND (IAS <= 150) AND (pavement = 1) Then
invuln = 1
Else
invuln = 0
End If
(I'm sure it's way more complicated than this, but I know something along the lines of the pavement, speed and vehicle type variables already exist.)
Although... Based on what I've heard HTC post on vulching in the past, I'd be willing to bet he won't do it! :P
I will say though, some of the most fun I've had in this game are on Titanic Tuesdays. Even today when the Bishop were getting pounded, I managed to have a flippin' blast! :x
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What you mean by "scenario" ? a planned event is a completely different animal. I'm talking about main arena free for all environment.
You didn't specify main arena. You said
You get an arena with 350+ people in it and gameplay just goes to hell.
:P
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Simple: Aircraft below landing speed touching friendly pavement.
Hell, I might even be able to code that! :D
If (aircraft = 1) AND (speed <= 150) AND (pavement = 1) Then
invuln = 1
Else
invuln = 0
End If
(I'm sure it's way more complicated than this, but I know something along the lines of the pavement, speed and vehicle type variables already exist.)
Although... Based on what I've heard HTC post on vulching in the past, I'd be willing to bet he won't do it! :P
I'll bet he won't either, as the solution to being vulched is so simple.
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How many definitions of "on the concrete" would HT have to coad, then?
<scenario>
I shoot player X until his plane looks like swiss cheese.
Player X belly lands "on the concrete" but just a bit too fast and explodes.
<scenario>
Do I now not get the kill because he was "on the concrete?
You have been playing long enough to know that the easiest fix is to not land or take-off from a capped field.
The ones that do either are just as bad as the vulchers as they are exposing themselves to being vulched.
If everyone stopped upping for 30 seconds, the cappers get bored and go help with town or something else, usually.
Then there is a better chance of getting off of the field.
Well I would say if you didn't finish him and he managed to get away then you did NOT kill him! Now if he ran to ack then I would say you are probably flying in the cherryfest and you still failed! I would also say this "scenario" you put forth is quite rare and insignificant.
I think you've been around long enough that this "lost KILL" shouldn't matter at all! :aok Just saying!
Discouraging the vulch by benign means such as "concrete kill = nothing" could not possibly take away from the game, although IMO it could enhance it! :aok
JUGgler
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Well I would say if you didn't finish him and he managed to get away then you did NOT kill him! Now if he ran to ack then I would say you are probably flying in the cherryfest and you still failed! I would also say this "scenario" you put forth is quite rare and insignificant.
I think you've been around long enough that this "lost KILL" shouldn't matter at all! :aok Just saying!
Discouraging the vulch by benign means such as "concrete kill = nothing" could not possibly take away from the game, although IMO it could enhance it! :aok
JUGgler
Not taking off at a capped field discourages the vulch, requires less coding and will not open the BBS to a whole new set of whines by cretins that cannot or refuse to understand the way lag works.
"I was on concrete"
"Was not"
"On my front end I was"
"Cheater"
"Tard"
The solution is more simple than taking a piss after drinking a six-pack.
I'll repeat it. Don't up. Simple, elegant and as benign or even more so, than new coad.
Look out of the tower before you leave. Here is some coad for that...
If (enemy aircraft = sh*%load) AND (friendly aircraft <= 3) AND (Vehicle Hanger = 0) OR (friendlies on runway = :ahand ) Then
Goto another field
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Not taking off at a capped field discourages the vulch, requires less coding and will not open the BBS to a whole new set of whines by cretins that cannot or refuse to understand the way lag works.
"I was on concrete"
"Was not"
"On my front end I was"
"Cheater"
"Tard"
The solution is more simple than taking a piss after drinking a six-pack.
I'll repeat it. Don't up. Simple, elegant and as benign or even more so, than new coad.
Look out of the tower before you leave. Here is some coad for that...
If (enemy aircraft = sh*%load) AND (friendly aircraft <= 3) AND (Vehicle Hanger = 0) OR (friendlies on runway = :ahand ) Then
Goto another field
Again as many have said before, upping from a nearby field will most likely take too long!
Also as I've said many times over, allow me to get airborne unmolested and I will continue to up, thereby increasing the "kill count" for those doing the "cherry/vulching and also improving my fun, as well as a few others who share my disease :)
How can that possibly be bad? :joystick:
JUGgler
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One cannot always be all-inclusive.
I had a blast so far in this scenario. :aok
The scenario has rules and adult supervision, MA is the romper room without an adult in sight.
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i'm betting 10 pages... :joystick:
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oops
JUGgler
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Again as many have said before, upping from a nearby field will most likely take too long!
Also as I've said many times over, allow me to get airborne unmolested and I will continue to up, thereby increasing the "kill count" for those doing the "cherry/vulching and also improving my fun, as well as a few others who share my disease :)
How can that possibly be bad? :joystick:
JUGgler
Juggler speaks the truth!
As a side note, I was at one of the bases where Juggler was upping. After picking him a couple of times I was disgusted with myself. So the next time in I thought I would just come in on the deck. I up from the cv and came in at about 2k or less. Here he comes in the Jug. I thought great but he doesn't see me since every one is swarming 5k over the top of him and he turns full silhouette in front of me. So what is a bastage to do. I pull the trigger. He tells me nice shot. I'm humbled by it. I'm not worthy.
I don't like picking great pilots in those situations. In a furball anything goes. In a horde anything goes. But to take out a great pilot with a pick that would otherwise own you disgusts me. But I'm glad you were having a great time! Always developing those skills. Always having fun. I like that! <S>
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If you want a fight with anyone in the MA, the way to go is to PM a buddy you have on the opposition and ask if they would like to duel away from any group/horde action.
I had a number of great fights with Doc72CH last night 1 vs 1 @10k merge, I didn't win many, but had a great amount of fun. It made my evening, as watching the vHorde and friends going from place to place barely opposed was making me rather bored.
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If you want a fight with anyone in the MA, the way to go is to PM a buddy you have on the opposition and ask if they would like to duel away from any group/horde action.
I had a number of great fights with Doc72CH last night 1 vs 1 @10k merge, I didn't win many, but had a great amount of fun. It made my evening, as watching the vHorde and friends going from place to place barely opposed was making me rather bored.
I care less about being out#d, I care less about being circled by a gaggle with 5K advantage over me. I would just like to get off the ground unmolested :aok Not too much to ask IMO <S>
The vhorde has its place and they start many a fight, they just don't have the stomach to stick it out very long! But I say <S> vhorde! :aok
JUGgler
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The scenario has rules and adult supervision, MA is the romper room without an adult in sight.
Scenarios and FSO's bore me to tears. Though I do believe your analysis is closer to correct than I like to think.
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Scenarios and FSO's are the only things that keep me paying for the game.
logging into the MA makes me :mad: :bhead :furious in less 30 minutes and I've logged.
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Scenarios and FSO's are the only things that keep me paying for the game.
logging into the MA makes me :mad: :bhead :furious in less 30 minutes and I've logged.
I like both. I think of the MA as a place to get practice. Events are the big show, though, more realistic and meaningful.
Not all MA practice is good or useful. Bar and I had offsetting kills over the last week. I ho'ed his Pony with a Tater (I swear he fired first - or maybe I was worried he would) and he returned the favor by showing me that neat trick with the AR234 I'd heard so much about - a kind of woosh, whew, bang, damn kind of thing. It's all good fun though a bit fantastic.
At the same time, I've had some really enjoyable fights in the MA . I'm thinking of a nice 1V1 with Duck1 Saturday. MA is just all over the place, from sublime to ridiculous.
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Yes cant deny it can lead to some great fights
Problem is. More times then not,just about as soon as any kind of real defense is upped or it becomes obvious the quick capture isn't going to happen. The horde again moves to where people aren't.
Herein lies the crux of the problem. They just give up as soon as a good fight develops.
I thought the point of having capturable bases was to encourage fighting. As soon as many of these hoards gets any opposition they go to the other side of the map.
I suppose it is "the path of least resistance" but if you don't want any resistance you might as well be capturing fields off line.
Jug, I'd love to try picking people out of a horde like this, but like I said earlier, they are good at what they do.
They come in NOE and pop at the dar ring. They come strait to the field and kill everything, then they kill any uppers left, then they kill the town. From dar to capture takes about 5-6 minuets. If you up from the next field over you might get there in time to see the last couple land.
Then, they don't up there because the base is flat, so they up someplace else, not to take a base any where near the one they just took, because people are alert in that area.
So you land and up again trying to guess the next area of attack, or you can sit in the tower to try and react quicker on the next dar flash.
Seeing as ratting out a CV that is hidden and ruining someones fun is not liked by HTC, and getting mauled by horde after and having the defender fun ruin isn't bad just keeps me mystified as to "how to play this game"
Last time I was involved in a defense where this happened we took the base back in five minutes.
All the hangers were down. They had no friendly spawn in. We got there too late.
I deacked the town in a 262 with the others and we had a gv spawn in.
Basically they captured with a hoard and landed rather than fight.
:rolleyes:
wrongway
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i hate to divulge tips from a decade of playing this damn game but here goes.
pick your fights. if theres a cloud of red and your not in an uber ride with smash and or alt dont turn and burn on the deck by the capped field unless you dont mind getting wasted repeatedly. thats what the perk rides are for and its the most enjoyable place to use a 262 is ina cloud of red without getting a stray golden bb while pulling out 10+ scalps.
the horde wants victims.
period.
they want the easiest kills possible and if no one ups to defend they will roll bases till they get bored or the base spacing changes to more than 25 miles.
if a decent defense is evident you can join the defense and fight off the horde but numbers ussually wins if your not in a 262. if your not enjoying the challenge of being outnumbered move to a quiet part of the map and start a new fight.
in summary I have just told you to not keep doing somthing if your not having fun and do not expect a different result more than 1 time out of 10 when defending vs a horde.
you may delay them but unless your side responds with similar numbers you will ussually be routed and your base captured.
its called a tactical withdrawl or a retreat. use it.
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Herein lies the crux of the problem. They just give up as soon as a good fight develops.
As soon as many of these hoards gets any opposition they go to the other side of the map.
wrongway
This sounds EXACTLY how alot of pilots fly their "fighters".
All the above statement would need to do is subsitute the word "hordes" for "fighters".
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i hate to divulge tips from a decade of playing this damn game but here goes.
pick your fights. if theres a cloud of red and your not in an uber ride with smash and or alt dont turn and burn on the deck by the capped field unless you dont mind getting wasted repeatedly. thats what the perk rides are for and its the most enjoyable place to use a 262 is ina cloud of red without getting a stray golden bb while pulling out 10+ scalps.
the horde wants victims.
period.
they want the easiest kills possible and if no one ups to defend they will roll bases till they get bored or the base spacing changes to more than 25 miles.
if a decent defense is evident you can join the defense and fight off the horde but numbers ussually wins if your not in a 262. if your not enjoying the challenge of being outnumbered move to a quiet part of the map and start a new fight.
in summary I have just told you to not keep doing somthing if your not having fun and do not expect a different result more than 1 time out of 10 when defending vs a horde.
you may delay them but unless your side responds with similar numbers you will ussually be routed and your base captured.
its called a tactical withdrawl or a retreat. use it.
Most players lack a few thousand perks some have to risk on a 262 mission into a horde. I for one lost all my perks from several years due to a name change which I didn't know would cause such an event. I personally am not afraid to use the perks I have now collected again but I know the majority of players lack the perk buffers to casually take one.
So either it's the dissatisfaction of surrendering under the horde or trying to fight desperately - both cases is a loss for the victim of the horde. If I have to give up to a horde it usually means the game just stoped being fun for me and I log off for a week. If it happens often enough it may mean I no longer see paying the monthly payment feasible. And that's not good for HTC. If hordeing produces player logoffs and/or quits, the balance gets shifted even worse gradually with the problem feeding itself.
I remember back in 2002 when euro-primetime login would in most cases produce a situation where your country was being horded to death with a couple remaining fields vulched non-stop. Whenever you took up you stood 10:1 odds - if you got up at all that is. That's by far not the only reason I quit subscribing back then but it was certainly a factor why I stayed away for years.
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Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.
I just think the game could really be so much more if they embraced the "war simulation" mentality that the AH population has had now for many years and turned the MA into more of a combined arms simulator. They way it is now I don't think anyone is truly happy - the folks that want to play an air combat sim are stuck with a population that wants to play a 'war simulation' and the folks who want the 'war simulation' are stuck with a game that has a very limited toolset for what they want.
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Well it seems that fight are not something people look for or want in the main arenas. So to this end maybe we should ALL switch to bishops. This way we can guaranty that we won't accidentally fight anyone, we could join the hordes already in progress and learn the fine art of steamrolling a base. With the larger number I'm sure we could reset the maps faster solving two problems at once. First getting perk points to people easily that haven't really earned them so they they too can fly 262s, and second The boredom issue of the maps not switching out fast enough for some. :angel:
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Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.
I just think the game could really be so much more if they embraced the "war simulation" mentality that the AH population has had now for many years and turned the MA into more of a combined arms simulator. They way it is now I don't think anyone is truly happy - the folks that want to play an air combat sim are stuck with a population that wants to play a 'war simulation' and the folks who want the 'war simulation' are stuck with a game that has a very limited toolset for what they want.
Bit harsh its the guys living
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Thing is, for every long time player who quits because they are still trying to play an air combat sim, someone who plays the game for what it has become comes along and replaces him. HT doesn't care WHO is playing the game, as long as someone is.
I beg to differ. Simulated air combat is a niche market as it is, every customer counts for HTC. MA playerbase is in 3 thousand range, the MMOG move in 3 hundred thousands to 3 million player range. So no, it really is not the same who quits.
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Well it seems that fight are not something people look for or want in the main arenas. So to this end maybe we should ALL switch to bishops. This way we can guaranty that we won't accidentally fight anyone, we could join the hordes already in progress and learn the fine art of steamrolling a base. With the larger number I'm sure we could reset the maps faster solving two problems at once. First getting perk points to people easily that haven't really earned them so they they too can fly 262s, and second The boredom issue of the maps not switching out fast enough for some. :angel:
But, ENY will be too high and we'll all have to fly "crappy" planes.
:cry
wrongway
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Creates another problem(s).
What about a field that is being defended, but someone decides to up a mission from there. If you have field limits, you have eliminated anyone from defending the field. That mission may sit in the tower 5 to 10 minutes before launching, so now, in theory at least, you could have a field that is totally defenseless while everyone is in the tower waiting for the mission to start.
I could really see this as a problem for GV's. Players are attempting to spawn out of a field to an opposing or even friendly field, but is unable to do so because a mission is in the tower waiting to launch.
Now I know you big time bad fly only expert cartoon pilots who think GVing is beneath you really don't care, but there is a large contingent of players that enjoy the GVing side of the game, and I would hate to see my fun thwarted because a few get upset because they preceive there is some big problem with large groups of players attacking a field in a way they don't like.
Same old complaint, different thread.
MY OPINION
Fred
I hear what your saying. but odds are if a mission is about to up from a base. Its going to get canceled because of the attack. As its going to be difficult to up a mission when the feilds under attack.No base would be defenseless in that event anyway because of people waiting for a mission to start because the limits would only apply to planes already airborn. Not to the amount of people in the tower.
If your saying it leaves that base exposed because all potential available AC from that base that might otherwise be defending it are already air born Well, Just as IRL. Thats the chance you take. This in itself adds yet another element to the game. Though I think very quickly people would start moving missions away from the front lone bases.
As for the GVs. They should be exempted from any limits simply because there is rarely that many GVs comming in to where the GVs are the major problem.
I dont look down on GVers. I used to love GVing on the Pizza map. And would enjoy it occasionally on others.
In fact if I could get my stick working right when GVing I'd probably spend more time in them. The only thing I dont like about GVing is the spawn camping. I am of the opinion that GVing should be a flowing battle about movement, with ambushes well away from the spawn area just as they would be IRL. Not sitting there in one spot and playing whack a mole.
If it were up to me. In addition to the random area spawns we have now we would also have multiple sub spawn points within each spawn point.
Example: you click spawn point direction "A" to choose to which base your going to spawn to. Then a sub menu pops up giving you the choice of 3-4 other spawn points each well away from each other and with its own random spawn area just as our singular spawns have now.
This would make GVing far more cerebral and entertaining then just sitting there like (http://www.fz6-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/retard.gif) going "Doh De Doh! Got me anuddur one, Guhuh huh"
Camping while still possible would be more difficult to shut down inbounds as you would have to be mindful that you could end up getting flanked by forces comming in from another area.
While I know that quite a few get enjoyment of this
The ability to camp an entire spawn is the single most detrimental aspect of the GV game that holds it back from being everything it could and should be to become a major contributor to game play
Think about it. When your defending a feild even from the air what goes on. "Ok we have the south spawn covered. Anyone know if anythings comming in from the east spawn?" Makes it a bit more interesting when you have to worry about more then 1 doesnt it? Also makes it more interesting when your able to spawn in from more then one location. Now imagine that expanded. Suddenly knowing your terrain becomes more important as you can no longer just sit on one spot and wait for the one idiot that insists on offering his/her head up for slaughter before then can even look around to see where enemies are.
You have to consider terrain in setting up strong defensive positions, probable avenues of approach, Choke and ambush points. Team play is going to become more important as you might have to use the kind of strategy and tactics that were really used just like the airborn counter parts. Pretty soon your going to want more detailed maps of the terrain so you can plan and set these things up on both attack and defense. then pretty soon it becomes more like like... OH MEIN GOTT!! A Real ground war! Heavens to Betsy Whatever would we do if that happens!
LOL
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Or, consider the CV. As it sits now, 1 CV is as good as a fleet. I'd like to see an experimental arena where CV's and fields have a finite number of aircraft. Clearly, this would impede fights-on-demand but it would add realism. Perhaps the way to do this would be to limit the number of uppers from any field on a first-come, first-served basis. A loss of one upper would open the queue to the next upper, possibly with some "transfer" time delay. In this way, the local concertrations would be far more realistic. Uppers from distant bases would be under range pressure. Hording would require command and coordination.
Even before this, though, I'd like to see CV limits. That way, 4 CV's would be a massive force but 1 would be approx. 30-odd fighters - with similar-sized contingents of dive-bombers and torp bombers.
Pretty much exactly what I was talking about.
As for the CVs. Maybe have differing types of CVs. Just as we have now. some CVs have the cruiser or multiple cruiser escorts and some dont
Have some that are CVs with only 1 carrier. And some that are carrier groups/invasion task forces with several.
This would make the CV type guys happy as one divebombing lancaster couldnt end the "decent fight" all in one dive.
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<snip>
You have to consider terrain in setting up strong defensive positions, probable avenues of approach, Choke and ambush points. Team play is going to become more important as you might have to use the kind of strategy and tactics that were really used just like the airborn counter parts. Pretty soon your going to want more detailed maps of the terrain so you can plan and set these things up on both attack and defense. then pretty soon it becomes more like like... OH MEIN GOTT!! A Real ground war! Heavens to Betsy Whatever would we do if that happens!
LOL
The day this happens is the day I will start to learn all about ground vehicles ! :aok
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any time I read a thread like this I think back to the days when the arenas were capped at 120. No more than 40 players per side max. To me those were the best times, the best fights. You get an arena with 350+ people in it and gameplay just goes to hell.
Actually I dont think the arena size is the problem. I think its always been the lack of a forced balanced side system. I like the idea of a max per side and think its a time that never should have left. As even with ENY you can still end up with 100 team "A", 100 team "B", and 60 Team "C"
I said it then and I still say it. "A horde is a horde is a horde." No matter if its 20 P51's or 20 205s. If its consistantly4 on 1 and your the 1. The fun factor drops off very quickly. Even faster if your new or not among the uber
Side limits IMO would add credibility to the split arenas too. If your side has too many numbers in one arena and your chesspeice loyal. Then yea. You can go to another arena.
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Do you mean horizontaly or vertically??
I find that more people avoid fighting using altitude as a hiding place.
There is that yea. Thats at least part of a legitimate tactic. And more often then not easily defended against and often use their alt to your own advantage. I've always been a big proponent of using an opponents strengths against him. And frustrating him into fighting my fight. You can win many a fight that way.
But I find more people at co alt like to make one pass. Then run to their nearest friendly ack. That is of course when you can actually find a fight when they are not going to attack a base en masse where there arent any defenders around.
I spent over an hour last night flying from one base to another chasing darbars that disappeared before I got there. two of the times by the time I did actualy find someone to shoot at I ran out of gas.
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Actually I dont think the arena size is the problem. I think its always been the lack of a forced balanced side system. I like the idea of a max per side and think its a time that never should have left. As even with ENY you can still end up with 100 team "A", 100 team "B", and 60 Team "C"
I said it then and I still say it. "A horde is a horde is a horde." No matter if its 20 P51's or 20 205s. If its consistantly4 on 1 and your the 1. The fun factor drops off very quickly. Even faster if your new or not among the uber
Side limits IMO would add credibility to the split arenas too. If your side has too many numbers in one arena and your chesspeice loyal. Then yea. You can go to another arena.
:aok
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Most players lack a few thousand perks some have to risk on a 262 mission into a horde. I for one lost all my perks from several years due to a name change which I didn't know would cause such an event. I personally am not afraid to use the perks I have now collected again but I know the majority of players lack the perk buffers to casually take one.
So either it's the dissatisfaction of surrendering under the horde or trying to fight desperately - both cases is a loss for the victim of the horde. If I have to give up to a horde it usually means the game just stoped being fun for me and I log off for a week. If it happens often enough it may mean I no longer see paying the monthly payment feasible. And that's not good for HTC. If hordeing produces player logoffs and/or quits, the balance gets shifted even worse gradually with the problem feeding itself.
I remember back in 2002 when euro-primetime login would in most cases produce a situation where your country was being horded to death with a couple remaining fields vulched non-stop. Whenever you took up you stood 10:1 odds - if you got up at all that is. That's by far not the only reason I quit subscribing back then but it was certainly a factor why I stayed away for years.
You don't need a perk plane to fly against the horde, but you do need a pretty fast plane to have any long-term success. P51's, P47's, F4U's, 109's, etc, can all be used. And the beauty of it is that you'll generally build perks pretty quickly, especially if you switch to the lowest-numbers team.
Personally, this is the type of fight that I love the F4U-4 for. I love that plane, but I really want to fly it in a challenging situation, too. Sure, it's perked, but not all that much. And I don't like jets...
It's a different type of fight, going against the swarms. It's a heck of a challenge, and it's satisfying when you can do it and get away with it. To be honest, I find it much more entertaining than a bunch of 1v1 fights.
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Bit harsh its the guys living
I'm not trying to be harsh, HT is running a business. He has said many times that he expects people to burn out and quit playing.
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I'm not trying to be harsh, HT is running a business. He has said many times that he expects people to burn out and quit playing.
yup.....I would hazard a guess here and say the current player base today is a single digit percent (7% maybe?) of everyone who has ever come and gone in-game since 1999.
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I beg to differ. Simulated air combat is a niche market as it is, every customer counts for HTC. MA playerbase is in 3 thousand range, the MMOG move in 3 hundred thousands to 3 million player range. So no, it really is not the same who quits.
Ah, but a true simulation of a war has slightly wider appeal than a combat flight sim. Some of the tools are already in the game, we have tanks with a detailed model for damage and ballistics, and troop carriers. All that is really needed is artillery along with some sort of spotting system, and new terrains that are better suited towards a ground campaign (with choke points, urban areas, roads and railways, areas with tactical and strategic importance, etc). What we have now for ALL of the terrains amounts to a campaign in Siberia - just tons and tons of wide open spaces with no strategic value whatsoever. I'm not even sure HTC would need to add infantry, I think AH could become a great combined arms sim with just what we have now, with some tweaking.
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Ah, but a true simulation of a war has slightly wider appeal than a combat flight sim. Some of the tools are already in the game, we have tanks with a detailed model for damage and ballistics, and troop carriers. All that is really needed is artillery along with some sort of spotting system, and new terrains that are better suited towards a ground campaign (with choke points, urban areas, roads and railways, areas with tactical and strategic importance, etc). What we have now for ALL of the terrains amounts to a campaign in Siberia - just tons and tons of wide open spaces with no strategic value whatsoever. I'm not even sure HTC would need to add infantry, I think AH could become a great combined arms sim with just what we have now, with some tweaking.
I agree with that 100% !Put the strategy back in, put tactics back in! I love all the option that this game has even if I suck at most of them. Most however are not used, or twisted to game the game.
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It's a different type of fight, going against the swarms. It's a heck of a challenge, and it's satisfying when you can do it and get away with it. To be honest, I find it much more entertaining than a bunch of 1v1 fights.
I like this thought...although some days I'm just not in the mood for that rubbish (and have a little cry on 200 haha.)so then I will go elsewhere pop onto some radar somewhere (usually the country that's hording) and wait for the uppers to come Try and divert some from the base they are all at,at the time and start a whole new rumble..
although in saying this I do find it hard to comprehend the thought processes of those who travel in a group to sit over a field and drop in on any uppers as soon as wheels are up with absolutely no intention of trying to take the base....It is even worse when you find name players are in on it too..
After saying all this I know that I have the luck of playing in a timezone that doesn't hold multitudes of players like during the American prime time..When I play at that time it is actually a totally different game..and yet still the same.
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Ah, but a true simulation of a war has slightly wider appeal than a combat flight sim. Some of the tools are already in the game, we have tanks with a detailed model for damage and ballistics, and troop carriers. All that is really needed is artillery along with some sort of spotting system, and new terrains that are better suited towards a ground campaign (with choke points, urban areas, roads and railways, areas with tactical and strategic importance, etc). What we have now for ALL of the terrains amounts to a campaign in Siberia - just tons and tons of wide open spaces with no strategic value whatsoever. I'm not even sure HTC would need to add infantry, I think AH could become a great combined arms sim with just what we have now, with some tweaking.
LOL! Who are you kidding? The player base IS 3000+ that is a fact. The number does not even fluctuate much. I've been on AH since 2000ish I don't recall exactly when I started playing. Right after the beta anyway. That way of thinking is like pissing in your pants at winter, it warms for a second but then it gets oh so cold when you realize it wasn't 'real' warmth.
Now, unless HTC works on a non-profit basis its goal should be to drive expense down and gain more yearly turnover. Only 2 ways to achieve the latter - either increase sub price or get more paying customers.
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Urchin is usually 110% spot on before he posts anything.
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Actually I dont think the arena size is the problem. I think its always been the lack of a forced balanced side system. I like the idea of a max per side and think its a time that never should have left. As even with ENY you can still end up with 100 team "A", 100 team "B", and 60 Team "C"
Wouldn't help anything because it's a 3-way war. It's the same problem as ENY: if all the teams are dead even, but two of the sides aren't fighting each other, then one side is getting horded 2-1 across all its fronts. It's no different for that team than if it's 100-100-50 but half the first two teams are fighting each other. As things stand now, in the first scenario teams A & B have no ENY while in the 2nd they have a high ENY, even though the actual situation on each front is the same in both scenarios. This is why people have asked for field- or zone-based ENY or caps.
(It's also why I see ENY is so useless as far as side balancing goes. If one side getting ganged 2-1 is a problem, then ENY is broken because it does absolutely nothing to prevent the problem as long as 2 sides can ignore each other and gang up on the 3rd. If one side getting ganged 2-1 isn't a problem, then why have ENY at all?)
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You don't need a perk plane to fly against the horde, but you do need a pretty fast plane to have any long-term success. P51's, P47's, F4U's, 109's, etc, can all be used. And the beauty of it is that you'll generally build perks pretty quickly, especially if you switch to the lowest-numbers team.
Personally, this is the type of fight that I love the F4U-4 for. I love that plane, but I really want to fly it in a challenging situation, too. Sure, it's perked, but not all that much. And I don't like jets...
It's a different type of fight, going against the swarms. It's a heck of a challenge, and it's satisfying when you can do it and get away with it. To be honest, I find it much more entertaining than a bunch of 1v1 fights.
Spot on Mountainmn! I was telling Joach1m that in the MA it is really a matter of SA more than ACM and especially true for a horde. Nothing can save you if you slow down or get more than 2 planes on you. People in hordes seem to get more feral with the numbers advantage and hence more aggressive. However, once you drag them out, not so much. So a good pilot can whip on quite a few even in a horde.
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LOL! Who are you kidding? The player base IS 3000+ that is a fact. The number does not even fluctuate much. I've been on AH since 2000ish I don't recall exactly when I started playing. Right after the beta anyway. That way of thinking is like pissing in your pants at winter, it warms for a second but then it gets oh so cold when you realize it wasn't 'real' warmth.
Now, unless HTC works on a non-profit basis its goal should be to drive expense down and gain more yearly turnover. Only 2 ways to achieve the latter - either increase sub price or get more paying customers.
If I had to hazard a guess I'd say you've probably been around AH as long as me (and believe me I'm always slightly amazed every time I think about it). AH did not have 3000 players when I started playing. When I started a busy night in the MA was 100 people. The game did expand quite rapidly as its competitors went under. I believe according to Lusche's analysis the game got up to around 5000 subscribers a couple years ago and has been falling since then then. I think part of that is the crappy economy in the U.S., but I think another part is the player base changed. The game isn't made up of people who share a common interest in WW2 planes and combat flight sims, and it hasn't been for literally years.
Scotch, thanks for the vote of support, I would definately say I'm 100% confident in what I'm saying anyway. That is, of course, different from being RIGHT about it :).
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bloody fools, you all have been here.. how long?
this is what hitech wants:
(http://blogs.citypages.com/food/dunkin%20donuts.jpg)
:)
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Urchin, I think it's mostly the crappy economy. I love this game but had to take a couple of years off because of the economy and shouldn't be playing now. I want Hitech to succeed in every way. I also think many folks here enjoy the WWII era of planes. Sometimes I think they are a bit too fanatic. Still though they show so much respect to our WWII heroes.
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I believe according to Lusche's analysis the game got up to around 5000 subscribers a couple years ago and has been falling since then then.
Quick clarification: I had never stated anything about the number of subscribers.
What I did show was the number of active players (at least one kill or death) in the main arena, but that includes a great (but varying) number of trial accounts and excludes players only flying FSO or other special events, didn't use their active accounts and so on.
That's why I called it "activity index" ;)
Bearing that in mind: Yes, we had a peak of activity about two years ago, with about 50% more "activity" than today.
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If I had to hazard a guess I'd say you've probably been around AH as long as me (and believe me I'm always slightly amazed every time I think about it). AH did not have 3000 players when I started playing. When I started a busy night in the MA was 100 people. The game did expand quite rapidly as its competitors went under. I believe according to Lusche's analysis the game got up to around 5000 subscribers a couple years ago and has been falling since then then. I think part of that is the crappy economy in the U.S., but I think another part is the player base changed. The game isn't made up of people who share a common interest in WW2 planes and combat flight sims, and it hasn't been for literally years.
Scotch, thanks for the vote of support, I would definately say I'm 100% confident in what I'm saying anyway. That is, of course, different from being RIGHT about it :).
I understand the economic problems in US at the moment but otoh HTC is on a global market. If my business would stop growing let alone have a 40% drop in turnover, I'd be extremely worried and try to figure out whats causing the customers to leave. I'm sure HTC has done that.
My opinnion is that like in nature, MA needs to have a balance to thrive. Without balance things tend to wither and die sooner than later. An odd horde now and then doesn't matter in grand scale of things. But if it's a constant phenomenon it's about as profitable for HTC as the locust swarms are for African farmers.
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To get not completely offtopic, let me first state my perception about the hordes:
I've been playing close to six years now. The current hordes are not wore or more frequent than 5-6 years ago. The very same discussions, the very same problems. I was a n00b when that LCA thing happened in Rookland, which wasn't simply a squad then, but a huge mega horde completely shutting down complete frontlines before moving in to grab the bases. Much controversy back then. The current "Vguys" stuff really pales in comparison ;)
And I want to remind everyone being here before the arena split and the change in the requirements of winning the war how bad the ganging and hording was on a country level... remember, you didn't win by getting bases from both enemy teams but just by having the most bases of the country that "lost" the war. Result: Both bigger countries stomped on the smaller one 24/7 to get the biggest share, never any need to fight each other. That was really ugly...
And now a word about:
I understand the economic problems in US at the moment but otoh HTC is on a global market.
My own impression (you all know me observing such stuff) is that in the past years offpeak numbers had declined much more than peak ones. I'm just not sure if (in case I'm right about that) it's because non-US player numbers went down dis proportionally, or because we do have less younger players nowadays... which would really be a very bad thing.
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I understand the economic problems in US at the moment but otoh HTC is on a global market. If my business would stop growing let alone have a 40% drop in turnover, I'd be extremely worried and try to figure out whats causing the customers to leave. I'm sure HTC has done that.
My opinnion is that like in nature, MA needs to have a balance to thrive. Without balance things tend to wither and die sooner than later. An odd horde now and then doesn't matter in grand scale of things. But if it's a constant phenomenon it's about as profitable for HTC as the locust swarms are for African farmers.
So now we're going to run Hitech's business. I don't think so.
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The day this happens is the day I will start to learn all about ground vehicles ! :aok
And I'll say - and have said before, you can't really have "realistic" ground war without both infantry and indirect fire weapons. As is, we have tank battles - neither of the two elements I've mentioned figure in (with minor exception for naval and shore guns). Tank vs. tank can be fun but it doesn't really get it for me.
Infantry is a tough one to figure but IF weapons could be operated with the use of a spotter. They'd require a two-man team, thus and generally, but imagine the payoff. Consider the case where you and an easy-to-conceal spotter (base flash but tiny icon?) use a mobile 155mm to lay down a nice carpet of jagged steel on an enemy air base. God, that'd be as bad as a horde, practically. Doubtless it'd motivate a retaliatory search-and-destroy, both for the spotter and the offending piece of SPA. Consider, also, the viability of IF for layered base defense. Clearly, as another poster points out, this'd exacerbate the already annoying spawn camping issue - but spawn "randomness within a range" is something already well needed.
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Excellent response DREDIOCK...... :salute
I should have been clearer in my post, but the GV stuff was not directed at you. You did give an excellent response though. The only part of my reply directed back at you was how limiting the number of player that can up from a field could impact GVers as well as the air guys.
You are correct, it may be a long shot that the defense could be affected because a mission has been posted, but other considerations are what if there are just a bunch of people in the tower of that specific field that are AFK? I know it opens another can of worms.
Not directed specifically at you Drediock.
A few in this game perceives that there is some big problem with hording. I have been on both sides of it many times, and in the near four years I have been playing, I have not seen one bit of change. I really don't see the big deal. You want a fight, up and fight. If the odds are to overwhelming, then go some where else on the map.
Some talk that they want a fight, yet they get all bent over if everyone is not following their perception of what should be a fair fight. Where is it stated any where that anything in this game is fair? Sure HTC does some stuff to attempt to keep it balanced, but fair, never going to happen. You always have options, utilize them instead of whining all the time on 200 or the BBS. If the horde is bothering you so much, get your own horde together and go find them and take them out. I'm sorry, I just don't see the problem, and in my opinion the game is better today than it was four years ago.
Some tend to think you can organize a country in this game to be a well oiled machine with total cooperation and specific strategies like it is some real country or military force. I hate to break it to you, there are some real mental midgets that play this game and their sole purpose it to piss others off no matter what the cost. In a game that identities are basically unknown and can be changed with the click of a mouse, there are no repercussion for bad play. All that needs to be done is change your ID, and now you have a fresh new start.
I like most players get frustrated at times, but five minutes later I can not tell you who last killed me, or who I killed. When I see a field is totally capped, I either up at another field or find another base to go fight. If they take the field, or well, I guess we will just have to take it back later. I assure you of one thing, if any country win the war, I have yet to loose any sleep over it. You know why? Another war starts right a way.
Well there I go voicing my opinion again.
Fred
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So now we're going to run Hitech's business. I don't think so.
Hah, we ARE Hitech's business. Like it or not. And the realities of the business world do not change, like it or not. Or should I say, believe it or not :P
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Hah, we ARE Hitech's business. Like it or not. And the realities of the business world do not change, like it or not. Or should I say, believe it or not :P
Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.
HiTech
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Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.
HiTech
This is always the problem with giving people an opinion some people just don't know where the line is. You should be working on the game and your spelling rather than having to waste your time changing people's emo nappys or defend yourself on a forum :lol :banana:
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The hording will always happen for ever and always. Fugitive I think if more peeps "in country" responded to the horde attack I think you would have less issues with it, but the "potential pool" of "in country" responders is busy with there own "GREEN" horde somewhere on the map.
I have come to the conclusion that HORDE is the norm and so I have embraced the "ANTI HORDE" mentality, not only in "who and where" I fight but "how and why" I fight. With that said I think altering a few motivating factors that attract pontential "hordees" to horde fests could be of bennefit to all.
There are a couple mentalities that permiate a horde.
#1- Those that are in it for the "base capture" :salute to them
#2- Those that are "opportunistic" like the hyena and see the horde as a safe place to rack up kills then land, these types are much easier to spot when a CV is involved. They are the ones who up from a land base and come to the "friendly" CV fight with alt. I call these folks the "Tap-out trolls" they show up cause they have a cv near by to quickly "tap-out" at when things start to warm up, always staying "clean and safe"
#3- very few of the horde goers will ever pass up the "safe and clean" act of vulching.
There are several folks who will give a great account of themselves fighting the "good fight" against all odds at the last minute to defend a base. All but maybe 4 or 5 in the entire community will be "ground down" and concede defeat and give up once the vulching starts, when this happens the "fun light" is turned off for A L L ! No more vulchie vulchie, No more cherry cherry and No more fighting against insurmountable odds, No more NOTHING but wash, rinse and repeat.
Again I will say "allow me and my ilk to get airborne" and we will continue to launch in the face of the menacing horde. We will be fulfilled as martyrs to our chess piece and the horde will have many more scalps, deserving of the finest "WTG"s in the game! :aok
How do you alter a motivating factor to encourage me and my ilk to continue the "good fight" you may ask, well;
Make any kills of planes on the tarmac "null and void"
Extend radar out to another 1/3rd in distance!
Seems simple enough :banana:
JUGgler
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This is always the problem with giving people an opinion some people just don't know where the line is. You should be working on the game and your spelling rather than having to waste your time changing people's emo nappys or defend yourself on a forum :lol :banana:
I just have to say that after the other thread, where HiTech said that he won't look at another man's cards in poker while said man is getting a bear... Your post made me laugh out loud. Hahaha
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The hording will always happen for ever and always. Luche I think if more peeps "in country" responded to the horde attack I think you would have less issues with it, but the "potential pool" of "in country" responders is busy with there own "GREEN" horde somewhere on the map.
I have come to the conclusion that HORDE is the norm and so I have embraced the "ANTI HORDE" mentality, not only in "who and where" I fight but "how and why" I fight. With that said I think altering a few motivating factors that attract pontential "hordees" to horde fests could be of bennefit to all.
There are a couple mentalities that permiate a horde.
#1- Those that are in it for the "base capture" :salute to them
#2- Those that are "opportunistic" like the hyena and see the horde as a safe place to rack up kills then land, these types are much easier to spot when a CV is involved. They are the ones who up from a land base and come to the "friendly" CV fight with alt. I call these folks the "Tap-out trolls" they show up cause they have a cv near by to quickly "tap-out" at when things start to warm up, always staying "clean and safe"
#3- very few of the horde goers will ever pass up the "safe and clean" act of vulching.
There are several folks who will give a great account of themselves fighting the "good fight" against all odds at the last minute to defend a base. All but maybe 4 or 5 in the entire community will be "ground down" and concede defeat and give up once the vulching starts, when this happens the "fun light" is turned off for A L L ! No more vulchie vulchie, No more cherry cherry and No more fighting against insurmountable odds, No more NOTHING but wash, rinse and repeat.
Again I will say "allow me and my ilk to get airborne" and we will continue to launch in the face of the menacing horde. We will be fulfilled as martyrs to our chess piece and the horde will have many more scalps, deserving of the finest "WTG"s in the game! :aok
How do you alter a motivating factor to encourage me and my ilk to continue the "good fight" you may ask, well;
Make any kills of planes on the tarmac "null and void"
Extend radar out to another 1/3rd in distance!
Seems simple enough :banana:
JUGgler
You are a hard headed one aren't you Juggler? No disrespect but you will never change a time honored sport of kings like vulching. You know the options, yet would rather have the game changed to fit your preferences. :bhead If this ever happens, which I sincerely doubt, then let me know where to submit my list of personal gameplay preferences for Hitech to incorporate in the game. Mind you, I am not a heavy vulcher and score matters little to me, but I'll bag the idiot/noob that continues to up at a capped field again and again. Why? Because it is just fun to see them burn or blow up! -1 to the whole idea.
:salute
Way
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This could result in the addition of spotter planes as well, both for directing fire, and for countering enemy spotters (ie, the spotter plane could see infantry spotters at a better distance than a fighter/bomber.)
The naval aspect is also open to huge potential development and could/would attract a lot of "naval" types.
But.... it's HTCs call where they want spend development dollars.
And I'll say - and have said before, you can't really have "realistic" ground war without both infantry and indirect fire weapons. As is, we have tank battles - neither of the two elements I've mentioned figure in (with minor exception for naval and shore guns). Tank vs. tank can be fun but it doesn't really get it for me.
Infantry is a tough one to figure but IF weapons could be operated with the use of a spotter. They'd require a two-man team, thus and generally, but imagine the payoff. Consider the case where you and an easy-to-conceal spotter (base flash but tiny icon?) use a mobile 155mm to lay down a nice carpet of jagged steel on an enemy air base. God, that'd be as bad as a horde, practically. Doubtless it'd motivate a retaliatory search-and-destroy, both for the spotter and the offending piece of SPA. Consider, also, the viability of IF for layered base defense. Clearly, as another poster points out, this'd exacerbate the already annoying spawn camping issue - but spawn "randomness within a range" is something already well needed.
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You are a hard headed one aren't you Juggler? No disrespect but you will never change a time honored sport of kings like vulching. You know the options, yet would rather have the game changed to fit your preferences. :bhead If this ever happens, which I sincerely doubt, then let me know where to submit my list of personal gameplay preferences for Hitech to incorporate in the game. Mind you, I am not a heavy vulcher and score matters little to me, but I'll bag the idiot/noob that continues to up at a capped field again and again. Why? Because it is just fun to see them burn or blow up! -1 to the whole idea.
:salute
Way
Well if you run out of idiot/noobs then you are just the "silly one" buzzing about a field with nothing to do <-- this to me smacks more of idiot/noobishness and a waste of time but that is just me. If it were changed you could always scoop up my JUG at the end of the runway while I'm about 87 mph I mean honestly what is the difference to you, the vulcher?
A cherryfest is not much different than a vulch session asside from 1 very important factor. There will be more folks willing to up if there is no vulch!
BTW with my idea you could still vulch ( the sport of kings) as you put it, just a min, time for a laugh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaha ok I'm back, I would still be destroyed and sent to the tower, the only affect of my idea would be you wouldn't get credit for the kill that is all! Yes this simple idea would motivate many like myself to continue to up IMHO
JUGgler
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Well if you run out of idiots then you are just the "silly one" buzzing about a field with nothing to do <-- this to me smacks more of idiot and a waste of time but that is just me. If it were changed you could always scoop up my JUG at the end of the runway while I'm about 87 mph I mean honestly what is the difference?
A cherryfest is not much different than a vulch session asside from 1 very important factor. There will be more folks willing to up if there is no vulch!
JUGgler
I was not calling you an idiot Juggler perhaps stubborn, but not an idiot. If I find myself buzzing about the field with only the occassional upper to share with multiple friendlies, you can bet I am out of there and I'll be back with eggs to finish that field off. So there is plenty to do at all times. Hanging there with 15 other guys to share kills is boring.
On your side as far as getting at the bad guys, just saying that the ability to get to them is there if you use it. We do not need to change the game, only ourselves...
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I was not calling you an idiot Juggler perhaps stubborn, but not an idiot. If I find myself buzzing about the field with only the occassional upper to share with multiple friendlies, you can bet I am out of there and I'll be back with eggs to finish that field off. So there is plenty to do at all times. Hanging there with 15 other guys to share kills is boring.
On your side as far as getting at the bad guys, just saying that the ability to get to them is there if you use it. We do not need to change the game, only ourselves...
Not so sure this is realistic these days, as many have said the "art" of rolling bases has become very efficient indeed, it is very too late to up from a nearby base and be in good time even hauling prettythang on the deck, forgoing any alt is not sufficient!
:salute
JUGgler
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Not so sure this is realistic these days, as many have said the "art" of rolling bases has become very efficient indeed, it is very too late to up from a nearby base and be in good time even hauling prettythang on the deck, forgoing any alt is not sufficient!
:salute
JUGgler
Let me ask you this... Do you personally care whether any given base is taken?
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Personally I don't as long as I can find the next attack and defend there.
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Let me ask you this... Do you personally care whether any given base is taken?
NO! You are correct I could up elsewhere but there is no fight elsewhere, the fight is where the RED is and it is a beast that attracts more red, sucking any red from surounding areas. When you ask if I care what base is taken my 'quick knee jerk" reaction is NO, but when the "fight" is on for the base I am at "Well why else am I there"? if it is taken my fight is gone so as a byproduct I guess I am defending it to the last! So in a round about way I must care if the base "Iam at" is taken :huh
Anyone got a Bayer?
JUGgler
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Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.
HiTech
Without customers you have no business. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm an owner in a SaaS based company and at least to us it's very clear that the customers _are_ our business. If we lose them we don't have anything to stand on.
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It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
The turnover thing isn't so much something he exploits, at the (unfortunate) expense of players, but more of an inevitability. It's something you can't work around - every player (save a small minority) will eventually burn out or otherwise move on. Not building your business model around it means you go extinct sooner or later.
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority. It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale. The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.
HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
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It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
The turnover thing isn't so much something he exploits, at the (unfortunate) expense of players, but more of an inevitability. It's something you can't work around - every player (save a small minority) will eventually burn out or otherwise move on. Not building your business model around it means you go extinct sooner or later.
I'm naturally not trying to tell Hitech how to run his company but in my opinnion an online game should be treated like an ecosystem. Each player has his reasons for subscribing and playing and their actions affect the fun of others not just themselves. If there are disruptive elements on the arena causing the fun element to suffer or disappear, like in an ecosystem they're at first compensated but if let loose, will damage it permanently.
To me, overly massive hordes are like locust storms that eat away the nourishment of the game. The game changes from a fun challenge to an act of futility and negative returns. One may think well it's just a field who cares - but as one sees the situation progress field by field it's clear that if nobody stops the mobbing mentality, the fields are soon reduced to the stage where the country ends up 'in the bucket' and vulched till arena resets.
I think changes to the game were made that made the situation before the 'war ends' less insane by allowing more fields to be left before reset and were absolutely brilliant. Back in the days when IIRC two fields were left in the end, gameplay just went down the toilet for the last hour or two. If those two hours happen to be your only available gametime you might aswell not log on.
So, as long as things have some sort of a balance the garden of players can flourish and grow. Again, IMHO.
Attrition could be used as an incentive to not horde up - instead of the ENY that follows directly player numbers, what if ENY would change dynamically so that the more low ENY planes you lose in a horde combined with number superiority, the less would be available for the next one. Meaning at first you have P51D etc. at will, make stupid horde runs and get 30 of them shot down in a short manner, you no longer can use them for some time. That would possibly make two things happen: A true positive return for defending succesfully as the enemy would be visibly hurt, even weakened, from deaths and on the other hand incentive for the attacking party to try and survive in their planes instead of blindly lawndarting in search of instant returns.
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NO! You are correct I could up elsewhere but there is no fight elsewhere, the fight is where the RED is and it is a beast that attracts more red, sucking any red from surounding areas. When you ask if I care what base is taken my 'quick knee jerk" reaction is NO, but when the "fight" is on for the base I am at "Well why else am I there"? if it is taken my fight is gone so as a byproduct I guess I am defending it to the last! So in a round about way I must care if the base "Iam at" is taken :huh
Anyone got a Bayer?
JUGgler
We are closer in what we enjoy in this game than you realize, just go about it in different ways. I could care less about winning the war, but I want to win the fight I am at whether it is at a single base or a few sector region of the map. The Pigs take bases to goad the red guys into showing up. We are hybrid players in that we enjoy killing the red guys land, sea & air and will take base after base to get the red guys to show up. You can call us Fur-grabbers! LMAO I appreciate your honest answer and you can see what I am driving at. In the heat of the moment it does matter if they take the base from you.
:salute
Way
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority. It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale. The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.
HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
Why would the majority complain about themselves? :headscratch:
Anyway I am not complaining let alone about the horde, my focus is the VOOOLCH! savy? :salute
JUGgler
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority. It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale. The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.
HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
YAHTZEE!! :aok
Thread over.
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YAHTZEE!! :aok
Thread over.
The minority may complain but a very large portion may be negatively affected and stay quiet, ever thought about that? Worst case scenario, people vote with their feet without uttering a word.
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Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.
HiTech
Paying customers, the best kind.
Oh, See Hoyle on card rules.
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Bah thats great. Jack pot.....!
+1
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The minority may complain but a very large portion may be negatively affected and stay quiet, ever thought about that? Worst case scenario, people vote with their feet without uttering a word.
The "very large portion" of your statement is purely speculation.
It could also be said that a "very large portion" of people are quite happy with the game the way it is.
But that would also be speculation.
And I'm sure HTC is closely monitoring how many people "vote" with their feet.
If there was some sort of mass exodus going on he would be aware of it and react accordingly.
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Well if you run out of idiot/noobs then you are just the "silly one" buzzing about a field with nothing to do...
This is the natural limit on horde size and vulching. Eventually, it gets boring being the 20th guy on some poor dumb ... gentleman trying to get off the runway. It is an individual ingame growth experience to get to this realization. Too deep? I was inspired by moot:It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
Whoa. I'm flashing back to my college dorm room...
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority.
Limiting something or encouraging its opposite. If you wait for complaints to fix something you're probably late.
Attrition could be used as an incentive to not horde up - instead of the ENY that follows directly player numbers, what if ENY would change dynamically so that the more low ENY planes you lose in a horde combined with number superiority, the less would be available for the next one. Meaning at first you have P51D etc. at will, make stupid horde runs and get 30 of them shot down in a short manner, you no longer can use them for some time. That would possibly make two things happen: A true positive return for defending succesfully as the enemy would be visibly hurt, even weakened, from deaths and on the other hand incentive for the attacking party to try and survive in their planes instead of blindly lawndarting in search of instant returns.
You'd have players paying for other players excesses.
I don't disagree that hordes are a bane of gameplay quality, but so far there hasn't been any good enough solutions. IIRC hordes happen cause (other than gregariousness) players don't feel safe enough on their own - ie they're not capable enough at dogfighting. The most natural solution is to get them good enough at it. IE teach/train them. There's always a dozen trainers or so on hand, but evidently that's not enough. Something like an automated training system where you practice specific tactical situations (e.g. make opponent overshoot, etc) against AI, ideally with a "difficulty" slider where the margin of error gets smaller proportionally to difficulty, and with all of these lessons somehow structured hierarchically you'd have a good formula that could be kept very streamlined. E.G. you just click a button or press a key to restart the lesson at any point you choose E.G. using similar tech to what's used to watch AHF movies: the training code would "rewind" or fast forward you to the states (position, speed, acceleration etc) you specified from some previous attempt. A lot like the license trials in Gran Turismo, if you've played that.
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Limiting something or encouraging its opposite. If you wait for complaints to fix something you're probably late.
I agree.
You'd have players paying for other players excesses.
In fact this is what we have now, the target of the horde pays for the hordelings excess. Only difference is that the hordeling gets no negative returns for his behaviour and the ones that suffer, suffer the more they try to defend usually. Que negative returns.
I know my suggestion is far from perfect, just an idea among others.
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i find it hilarious that people complain about there being too many 'real life human people' flying against them in something that I find to be quite incredible.......a game with 'huge amounts of real life human players' flying against me. It's freakin awesome what we have here yet people still complain. Amazing how much we take for granted in threads like this.
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I agree.
In fact this is what we have now, the target of the horde pays for the hordelings excess. Only difference is that the hordeling gets no negative returns for his behaviour and the ones that suffer, suffer the more they try to defend usually. Que negative returns.
I know my suggestion is far from perfect, just an idea among others.
That's because the "hordlings" aren't doing anything that should be punished. They are playing an online game and happen to be working together and getting the reward. In EVERY GAME you play online, those with their numbers focused on one goal USUALLY win.
People need to stop expecting online player verses player video games to always be fair. They are not.
Usually the horde is too dumb to defend the base they are upping from. Up bombers, drop their hangers. The horde is so easily combated it's ridiculous that this many seasoned players still complain about it.
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That's because the "hordlings" aren't doing anything that should be punished. They are playing an online game and happen to be working together and getting the reward. In EVERY GAME you play online, those with their numbers focused on one goal USUALLY win.
People need to stop expecting online player verses player video games to always be fair. They are not.
Usually the horde is too dumb to defend the base they are upping from. Up bombers, drop their hangers. The horde is so easily combated it's ridiculous that this many seasoned players still complain about it.
By the time you get a bomber and drop 1-2 of hangers they already took the field attacked with overwhelming numbers and moved on. You might aswell tell the African farmers to attack the locust larvae while the parents are eating the crops, that'll teach them! :D
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By the time you get a bomber and drop 1-2 of hangers they already took the field attacked with overwhelming numbers and moved on. You might aswell tell the African farmers to attack the locust larvae while the parents are eating the crops, that'll teach them! :D
I watched a horde attack a base for 2 hours two nights ago, no one did anything but complain about it. Two people could have upped bombers 1 base back, and taken out all the fighter hangers in one pass in a total of probably 20-30 minutes.
The horde complaints piss me off. "You fix it HiTech, we can't be bothered to do anything about it."
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I watched a horde attack a base for 2 hours, no one did anything but complain about it.
Obviously it was not a horde then or they'd succeed in taking it. :D
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Obviously it was not a horde then or they'd succeed in taking it. :D
Not the case, most hordes are just swarms of fighters. No one attacking the town, just vulching.
Eventually a squad takes advantage of the situation and coordinates the taking of the airfield. THAT is when the horde starts rolling bases, now that squad will continue to do it to base after base using the horde as a protective device.
If you take the hangers away at the nearest base to the fight, most of the horde can't be bothered to up further back.
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In fact this is what we have now, the target of the horde pays for the hordelings excess. Only difference is that the hordeling gets no negative returns for his behaviour and the ones that suffer, suffer the more they try to defend usually. Que negative returns.
But right now you can switch sides; that's the relief valve. Then again you could switch sides in your scheme too.
The marginal worseness of the scheme you propose over the current scheme is that whereas in the current scheme things go back to normal as soon as enough players switch sides and rebalance sides, in the scheme you propose you still have those attrited vehicle models. A player who logs on right after the imbalance and rebalance events will find himself in a country without the vehicle he wants to play, and either gets pissed off about it (logs off, complains, etc) or does something about it: switches sides. Which initiates another unbalancing trend.
So all things considered the above scheme is not that different from current ENY scheme but adds some marginally worse elements. Off the top of my head I can't think of any fixes that'd make it better than the current scheme.
The word is cue (no need to thank me, hehe). Homonym's queue, apparently it was changed to cue from queue in english for billiard sticks, and queue is used in any situation where youve got a waiting line of some sort.
I know my suggestion is far from perfect, just an idea among others.
Yes and poking holes in it is how it'll be perfected :) You know the drill.
Not the case, most hordes are just swarms of fighters. No one attacking the town, just vulching.
Eventually a squad takes advantage of the situation and coordinates the taking of the airfield. THAT is when the horde starts rolling bases, now that squad will continue to do it to base after base using the horde as a protective device.
If you take the hangers away at the nearest base to the fight, most of the horde can't be bothered to up further back.
Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, a fair share of hording is started by base taking squads. The word horde usually meaning disproportionate strike force. Disproportionate as if I invited you to spar a bit in Aces High and then vulched you repeatedly. You wouldn't get your 15$'s worth.
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Zinc Member
Reg: Nov 2007
Posts: 65
Online
Re: the "WARBEAST Kill Club"
« Reply #99 on: Today at 02:01:37 PM » Quote Modify
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WOW now I've seen it all!
Now if I'm not mistaken, Warbeast you are always in a 5in gun or other manned gun on the bases am i right? (thought so)
Warbeast,when your in the 5in on the ships don't you routinely call out the location of the CV"S YOUR ON on channel 200 for everyone to see.(thought so)
So now i ask Hitech,what is the difference between this behavior and the one that you muted DMGOD for?(both are doing the same thing)
Sound like a double standard to me!
Thank you
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Not the case, most hordes are just swarms of fighters. No one attacking the town, just vulching.
Eventually a squad takes advantage of the situation and coordinates the taking of the airfield. THAT is when the horde starts rolling bases, now that squad will continue to do it to base after base using the horde as a protective device.
I saw 70 plane B24 formations just recently. Carpet bombing the field down in one pass. This leaves no defence. No recourse. Just watch the mob roll over.
It's online bullying. And it fits all the social implications, too.
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But right now you can switch sides; that's the relief valve.
In reality it's not. Switching sides would only further lopside the balance and amounts up to boring gameplay - where's the fun being number 10 vulcher chasing that one poor bastage on the deck?
A player who logs on right after the imbalance and rebalance events will find himself in a country without the vehicle he wants to play, and either gets pissed off about it (logs off, complains, etc) or does something about it: switches sides. Which initiates another unbalancing trend.
On the contrary, in that case the arena would be MORE balanced with every sideswitcher. Your model makes balance worse, mine better. See the difference? The attrition hurts only the side that uses too much resources.
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I saw 70 plane B24 formations just recently. Carpet bombing the field down in one pass. This leaves no defence. No recourse. Just watch the mob roll over.
It's online bullying. And it fits all the social implications, too.
Every online game has bullies, just like the playground.
In EVE Online, there are people that would literally fly 5 tiny $100,000 ships up to your $30,000,000 industrial ship and all fire at once. That did enough damage to lose your industrial ship before the "game police" (named Concord) would come and blow up their ships for shooting someone in "High Security Space."
Fair? Nope.
No matter what you do, there is always someone out to smash your ice cream cone.
In reality it's not. Switching sides would only further lopside the balance and amounts up to boring gameplay - where's the fun being number 10 vulcher chasing that one poor bastage on the deck?
Exactly. Go to a different base or leave the arena, the horde will get bored and dissipate.
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Not the case, most hordes are just swarms of fighters. No one attacking the town, just vulching.
Eventually a squad takes advantage of the situation and coordinates the taking of the airfield. THAT is when the horde starts rolling bases, now that squad will continue to do it to base after base using the horde as a protective device.
I saw 70 plane B24 formations just recently. Carpet bombing the field down in one pass. This leaves no defence. No recourse. Just watch the mob roll over.
DoS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack
In reality it's not. Switching sides would only further lopside the balance and amounts up to boring gameplay - where's the fun being number 10 vulcher chasing that one poor bastage on the deck?
I mean if you're getting ENY'd, you switch sides. Switch sides to rebalance, not to abandon losing side and increase imbalance.
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I mean if you're getting ENY'd, you switch sides. Switch sides to rebalance, not to abandon losing side and increase imbalance.
Yep that's exactly what I was looking for with the attrition. When a locust storm eats up the resources, the locust storm in nature dies of hunger. Here it has infinite resources to roll over.
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My only beef with the monster hordes, such as the 50+ bomber raids (50+ because 2/3s are drones), or the 40 guys attacking a base is that if the horde is too big, I can't get anywhere near the horde without my frame rate taking a dump.
Thats the worst too, it makes it impossible to fight them, and it ruins the game. I have a decent computer too :(. This why I wish that there was a limit on the number of planes that can up from a given field, or a local eny system or something to curb the mega-computer bogging hordes. That being said the usually vguy horde isn't large enough to cause the issue.
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Every online game has bullies, just like the playground.
In EVE Online, there are people that would literally fly 5 tiny $100,000 ships up to your $30,000,000 industrial ship and all fire at once. That did enough damage to lose your industrial ship before the "game police" (named Concord) would come and blow up their ships for shooting someone in "High Security Space."
Fair? Nope.
No matter what you do, there is always someone out to smash your ice cream cone.
And you just submit to this? Why?
Exactly. Go to a different base or leave the arena, the horde will get bored and dissipate.
Unfortunately the horde like most mobs, consists of insecure individuals who feel powerful only as a part of a group. Then the group dynamics enhance negative behaviour. The problems arise from psychology, unfortunately :)
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I saw 70 plane B24 formations just recently. Carpet bombing the field down in one pass. This leaves no defence. No recourse. Just watch the mob roll over.
It's online bullying. And it fits all the social implications, too.
Wow! That sounds like fun. If I had seen that I would have had a ball attacking them. I certainly would not expect to kill them all and therefore stop the hoard or thwart their base closure but just like the single pilot in WW2 who came up against one or more enemies, you take your victories where you can, and here in the game have some fun doing it. You said "just watch the mob roll over". Well maybe you could not win the war or stop the hoard but you could have attacked and gotten a kill, or died trying.
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And you just submit to this? Why?
Unfortunately the horde like most mobs, consists of insecure individuals who feel powerful only as a part of a group. Then the group dynamics enhance negative behaviour. The problems arise from psychology, unfortunately :)
Yes... Because it's part of how online gaming works. You are playing with real people, real people are sometimes amazinhunks.
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Wow! That sounds like fun. If I had seen that I would have had a ball attacking them. I certainly would not expect to kill them all and therefore stop the hoard or thwart their base closure but just like the single pilot in WW2 who came up against one or more enemies, you take your victories where you can, and here in the game have some fun doing it. You said "just watch the mob roll over". Well maybe you could not win the war or stop the hoard but you could have attacked and gotten a kill, or died trying.
Lol what do you think people tried to do? Unless you're in a hyper perk plane like 163, there's no way you even dent a formation like that without being blown clear from the sky. Even if you had 10 defenders with enough alt, you could do nothing. N E G A T I V E retuns folks, no reason to attack such a fleet if you know it will only end up in death or damage without any visible result.
Again, if I knew that each B24 I blow out of the sky would actually reduce their resources and force the next wave to return in, say, bostons, it would give a whole new incentive to the defence.
Maybe it boils down to people who join the mob and make things worse for others and people who stand up to the mob and loathe it :)
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Yep that's exactly what I was looking for with the attrition. When a locust storm eats up the resources, the locust storm in nature dies of hunger. Here it has infinite resources to roll over.
So the goal is to replace the current ENY horde/imbalance limiter with a very similar mechanic but with much stricter penalty? Because right now you've got almost the same incentive (switch sides to fly low ENY planes).
You would also need to void attrited planes as soon as things rebalance, or you'd have a time lag of attrition effects relative to actual balance. Unlike the current ENY system which is always exactly proportionate to actual balance. Otherwise you'd have a bit of slop in the mechanics: players who would find themselves (e.g. immediately after an unbalance > rebalance event) unduly denied some rides... and at best switching sides to be able to fly them, which like I said initiates a new imbalance trend.
I think adding a complement incentive device to current ENY system might be better - like the local perk multiplier scheme: varying perk points for kills/objects destroyed proportional to ratio of friendlies in range.
Add something like the automated practice/training system I described and things would probably significantly improve.
Yes... Because it's part of how online gaming works. You are playing with real people, real people are sometimes amazinhunks.
Your arguments amount to: give up and settle for whatever the teeming masses decide for you.
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So the goal is to replace the current ENY horde/imbalance limiter with a very similar mechanic but with much stricter penalty? Because right now you've got almost the same incentive (switch sides to fly low ENY planes).
You would also need to void attrited planes as soon as things rebalance, or you'd have a time lag of attrition effects relative to actual balance. Unlike the current ENY system which is always exactly proportionate to actual balance. Otherwise you'd have a bit of slop in the mechanics: players who would find themselves (e.g. immediately after an unbalance > rebalance event) unduly denied some rides... and at best switching sides to be able to fly them, which like I said initiates a new imbalance trend.
I think adding a complement incentive device to current ENY system might be better - like the local perk multiplier scheme: varying perk points for kills/objects destroyed proportional to ratio of friendlies in range.
My thought was only that in this case like in many others, one could take advice from natures way of handling things. If a locust storm happens, it eats itself to death inevitably. If it didn't it would destroy all life on earth in a matter of months. Luckily the situation on MA is not THAT bad lol! :D
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Lol what do you think people tried to do? Unless you're in a hyper perk plane like 163, there's no way you even dent a formation like that without being blown clear from the sky. Even if you had 10 defenders with enough alt, you could do nothing. N E G A T I V E retuns folks, no reason to attack such a fleet if you know it will only end up in death or damage without any visible result.
<S> Then I have not explained my point of view clearly. Take your kills where you can and fly away and land. Fight from an advantage, do not get caught up in a furball you are hopelessly outnumbered in. If its a giant bomber group, kill a couple and fly away, maybe you will drag a few fighters with and leave your friends with a little less opposition.
I know we all fly differently, well I think each of us is capable of flying differently for any given situation. Here, in this game, victory is measured by killing one guy at a time. Do that, quit worrying about what everyone else is doing or complaining about. I fly alot, at anytime PM me and I will take you along as a wingy to show you my perspective. Do that with a few guys, learn a bit more, and have fun.
Remember the saying "Kill em all and let God sort em out" ? Well this is not quite that, just kill one of them, then go kill one more of them, then go kill one more of them.......ad infinitum..................
It is possible.
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Lol what do you think people tried to do? Unless you're in a hyper perk plane like 163, there's no way you even dent a formation like that without being blown clear from the sky. Even if you had 10 defenders with enough alt, you could do nothing. N E G A T I V E retuns folks, no reason to attack such a fleet if you know it will only end up in death or damage without any visible result.
Maybe it boils down to people who join the mob and make things worse for others and people who stand up to the mob and loathe it :)
MrRiplEy,
It has been done, most of the time if you set up your attack properly, the gangtwits won't know how to deal with it. Often it will cause them to scatter and their 'operation' looses organization and steam. Other times, if others see that you are successful, they will join in. Sure, 50v1 isn't going to result in stopping the base take, but 50v1 can quickly turn into a more manageable 20v50, then the attackers leave because they have resistance and they would rather only fight ack. Furthermore, the gang mentality goes both ways, all sides have them, so once a defense operation gets some steam, a horde of green will develop around your location.
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MrRiplEy,
It has been done, most of the time if you set up your attack properly, the gangtwits won't know how to deal with it. Often it will cause them to scatter and their 'operation' looses organization and steam. Other times, if others see that you are successful, they will join in. Sure, 50v1 isn't going to result in stopping the base take, but 50v1 can quickly turn into a more manageable 20v50, then the attackers leave because they have resistance and they would rather only fight ack. Furthermore, the gang mentality goes both ways, all sides have them, so once a defense operation gets some steam, a horde of green will develop around your location.
Oh puhleeze there's absolutely nothing you can do against a 70 bomber fleet. Even a group of 3 is deadly for a lone attacker.
When nits did the P47 horde to the HQ that was different, we could up 163s and blow them off the sky even though they managed to disable the HQ anyway. But in regular plane and 70 B24's.. forget about it.
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Oh puhleeze there's absolutely nothing you can do against a 70 bomber fleet. Even a group of 3 is deadly for a lone attacker.
When nits did the P47 horde to the HQ that was different, we could up 163s and blow them off the sky even though they managed to disable the HQ anyway. But in regular plane and 70 B24's.. forget about it.
Try it some time...
DocCH will back me up, I remember about 3 weeks ago the knits were ganging the f out of a port on Titanic Tuesday, so I upped a 262 from a neighboring base, and made 2 flights, the first bagging 7 kills and the second bagging 8. Both times, I'd have a horde of 50+ trying to kill me. It was fun, intense and comical all at the same time.
vSky and vAugering have ran into me many times as the lone or the very few defenders, where I come in high, and kill many of them before RTB or dieing. It it possible, it just takes some planning ahead of time.
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Try it some time...
DocCH will back me up, I remember about 3 weeks ago the knits were ganging the f out of a port on Titanic Tuesday, so I upped a 262 from a neighboring base, and made 2 flights, the first bagging 7 kills and the second bagging 8. Both times, I'd have a horde of 50+ trying to kill me. It was fun, intense and comical all at the same time.
vSky and vAugering have ran into me many times as the lone or the very few defenders, where I come in high, and kill many of them before RTB or dieing. It it possible, it just takes some planning ahead of time.
So you have perks to burn it seems if you are willing to fly the 262 into overwhelming odds. If you have collected enough perks for 2 planes in the last couple years you might think differently on whether to dive into the horde or not. Oh yeah and I fly P40B and the brewster too so don't tell me about getting perks! I just don't have the hours to spend on them.
So in this case I would have to balance risking losing 50% of my accumulated perks in a risky 30:1 sortie that would achieve absolutely nothing in the end. Not very appealing to me. Just last week I fought 26:1 (according to film viewer) in a tempest and landed 6 kills. So I've done it. Yet it did not even dent the attackers.
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I was going to say, some fellow knights and I repulsed a nice horde attack the other night. We weren't even part of the same squad or organized but several of us saw a large approaching DAR and upped. Enough of us arrived on scene to have sufficient alt and numbers to tear the multi-box assault to pieces and kill most of the escorts. I killed two lancs m'self, then landed. It was one of the most fun ad hoc MA actions I've ever been part of - not least because we sent 'em home with enlarged and bloody pupenschutes. It happens. Every night is slightly different.
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You said "just watch the mob roll over". Well maybe you could not win the war or stop the hoard but you could have attacked and gotten a kill, or died trying.
As you've seen from other threads, this same issue has been coming up in the MW arena as well about how the hords milk run an undefended base or steam roll over a base with little defensive opposition. On Sunday I hop into the MW arena and see that there are 12 Bishops, 2 Knights and 10 Rookies and the fights are between a single Bish and Rook base, no action at all on the Knight front. I switch to the Bish side since it was their field being attacked and helped repel the Rookie attackers and then assisted in pushing the Rookies back to their base and flew CAP over it. Once we pushed the Rookies back to their base, they stopped taking off and made no attempts at all to defend their base which we were now attacking. Instead, the Rookies start to whine about being horded and how the Bish were milk running undefended bases. I look at the roster and see the numbers are still relatively even and instead of defending their base from attack, the Rookies moved and were milk running an undefended Knight vehicle base. The Rookies, instead of whining about being "steam rolled by the hord" could have tried to defend their base but I guess the allure of attacking an undefended base was too appealing to the Rookies.
ack-ack
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So you have perks to burn it seems if you are willing to fly the 262 into overwhelming odds. If you have collected enough perks for 2 planes in the last couple years you might think differently on whether to dive into the horde or not. Oh yeah and I fly P40B and the brewster too so don't tell me about getting perks! I just don't have the hours to spend on them.
So in this case I would have to balance risking losing 50% of my accumulated perks in a risky 30:1 sortie that would achieve absolutely nothing in the end. Not very appealing to me. Just last week I fought 26:1 (according to film viewer) in a tempest and landed 6 kills. So I've done it. Yet it did not even dent the attackers.
There is are many fallacies in your argument....
1) I didn't die either time, so I lost no perks.
2) Although I've been playing for over 2 years, I stopped playing for a while and canceled my account and lost all my perks. Its been 6 mo since I've came back, so
thats 6 mo of perks not 2 years.
3) It did achieve something.... I found it fun and the overwhelming odds got my adrenaline pumping. One mistake and I'm dead.
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There is are many fallacies in your argument....
1) I didn't die either time, so I lost no perks.
2) Although I've been playing for over 2 years, I stopped playing for a while and canceled my account and lost all my perks. Its been 6 mo since I've came back, so
thats 6 mo of perks not 2 years.
3) It did achieve something.... I found it fun and the overwhelming odds got my adrenaline pumping. One mistake and I'm dead.
Talking about fallacies you kinda argumented against your point 1 in point 3. :) Point 2 may only show that you have played countless hours and gained perks to burn again, people with 0.25 k/d have to spend 10 years to achieve any kind of buffer and that is only if they don't use them lol :D
You have to remember that the vast majority on MA get below 1 k/d ratios. They're the backbone of defence that can up a pony in a horde at will but will think twice about upping a perkie as the underdog.
The way I see it, the whole reward system is reverse of what it should be. The players who need perk planes the least get to use them. The players who can't cut the mustard even in the regular models are deprived of the higher performing planes. This creates further imbalance instead of harmonizing the field.
Perhaps the honor of getting to fly the P40B only should be the ultimate goal. Only the coolest kid on the track could achieve enough kills in it in order to keep the perk count (rank) low enough. What other dominance is there except to kill a noob in 262 with your mighty 202.
OTOH an arena full of 262s wouldn't be nice either. Hmmm.
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Talking about fallacies you kinda argumented against your point 1 in point 3. :) Point 2 may only show that you have played countless hours and gained perks to burn again, people with 0.25 k/d have to spend 10 years to achieve any kind of buffer and that is only if they don't use them lol :D
You have to remember that the vast majority on MA get below 1 k/d ratios. They're the backbone of defence that can up a pony in a horde at will but will think twice about upping a perkie as the underdog.
The way I see it, the whole reward system is reverse of what it should be. The players who need perk planes the least get to use them. The players who can't cut the mustard even in the regular models are deprived of the higher performing planes. This creates further imbalance instead of harmonizing the field.
Perhaps the honor of getting to fly the P40B only should be the ultimate goal. Only the coolest kid on the track could achieve enough kills in it in order to keep the perk count (rank) low enough. What other dominance is there except to kill a noob in 262 with your mighty 202.
OTOH an arena full of 262s wouldn't be nice either. Hmmm.
I agree that the current reward system favors hordes. Also, I don't take on hordes in 262s only. Most of my horde busting flights are done in a 109 k4. A p51 would work better than a k4, given its better guns and better high speed dive handling.
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Your arguments amount to: give up and settle for whatever the teeming masses decide for you.
My thought was only that in this case like in many others, one could take advice from natures way of handling things. If a locust storm happens, it eats itself to death inevitably. If it didn't it would destroy all life on earth in a matter of months. Luckily the situation on MA is not THAT bad lol! :D
Not at all. We combat it, we used to bring in logistic ships to constantly shield rep the industrial ship. I actually have a kill in a mining barge on a cruiser that tried to "gank" me. My drones attacked him when he attacked me, and the logistic ship kept me alive. Needless to day, we humiliated them on the local channel.
Adapt and fight back.
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Not talking about EVE unless you can detail how the analogy is flawless... Much simpler to stick to AH.
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Not talking about EVE unless you can detail how the analogy is flawless... Much simpler to stick to AH.
Nothing is flawless.
The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature. These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.
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Nothing is flawless.
The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature. These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.
Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.
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Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............
You know, I really enjoy open ocean sailing and do it alot off the coast of San Diego. You got no idea, if you have never sailed, how much work it is to get a 50 footer ready to go, keep her rigged and trimmed to go as fast as possible. The work itself is a reward though and fun and then it leads to more fun (and more work).
Sitting at a computer yankin' on a joystick to be in the right place at the right time for a good defense or fight is hardly what I would call work.
Ripley, if you focus on the negative here, that is what you will see.
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Nothing is flawless.
Platonics. Flawless analogy for the purpose of comparison doesn't necessarily mean integrally identical.
The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature. These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.
And for all we know the analogy to EVE is apples and oranges for any possible reason, from game mechanics to the kind of people who play it.
You have to detail how EVE and AH are identical as far as these dynamics go. It's much simpler to stick to AH. This is all greek:
we used to bring in logistic ships to constantly shield rep the industrial ship. I actually have a kill in a mining barge on a cruiser that tried to "gank" me. My drones attacked him when he attacked me, and the logistic ship kept me alive.
In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient. There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.
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Now you are nit picking.
The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.
"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.
You have to detail how EVE and AH are identical as far as these dynamics go. It's much simpler to stick to AH. This is all greek:In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient. There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.
Not really, the same "type" of people play all games (nice, mean, helpful, unhelpful, strategic, brutal, etc.). The only difference are the interest points. I started poking around the forums of EVE and when I looked really hard, there actually were people that complained about player tactics.
Difference is, people in EVE know this is human nature and laughed the complainers off the boards. In fact, the game developers do nothing to stop it, in fact, they promote it! Why? Because it adds personality to the game. Games that are too strict become tiresome and repetitive.
Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.
Well, then don't combat it and go elsewhere. But don't complain about it happening.
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In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient. There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.
Saying it is human nature is perfectly sufficient. Yes there are 'cultural' differences at the core of a game. For instance in AH we supposedly have furballers and toolshedders as our 'culture'. But that is only the core basis of this game. When you look at the whole player base human nature is very apparent in many, many forms. This evidence of human nature, in this case - path of least resitance - is apparent across all games. Smack talking and bravado being another couple of traits that fit human nature and span all forms of competitive interaction.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............
You know, I really enjoy open ocean sailing and do it alot off the coast of San Diego. You got no idea, if you have never sailed, how much work it is to get a 50 footer ready to go, keep her rigged and trimmed to go as fast as possible. The work itself is a reward though and fun and then it leads to more fun (and more work).
Sitting at a computer yankin' on a joystick to be in the right place at the right time for a good defense or fight is hardly what I would call work.
Ripley, if you focus on the negative here, that is what you will see.
Well if I was paying someone to get my boat ready to sail, and I had to then do all the work to get to have my fun, it would certainly take away from my fun. What if you go down to your slip, go through all the prep to get you sail boat ready for a cruise and 20 guys decide to hold a little armada in the area of the slips. Telling you todays only for the little boats. Would you still have had "fun" getting your boat ready to go?
I'm paying to play a game using WWII style equipment and I'm being denied that opportunity. And before all you nit-pickers chime in, yes there are other avenues to play, but I choose NOT to use them, much like some only buff and some only GV.Analogies are all fine and dandy, but you must look at the issue from BOTH sides, far to many only look at it from their side believe any other side is unimportant.
Now you are nit picking.
The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.
"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.
Well, then don't combat it and go elsewhere. But don't complain about it happening.
I'm trying to play the "war game", that is what the game is all about now, not fighting. So how would you recommend defending against 20-30-50 people missions? My horde doesn't grab bases as fast as the other so I try to slow the others down.
We know upping from the attacked base is only good the first time, then the vulch light is lit.
Upping from a second base either gets you there too slow, or if you up a 262 in time to catch the tail end and maybe, just maybe a goon to prolong that "battle" (and I use that term VERY loosely).
The other option mention is "avoid" :rofl
So, how would you slow the rolling steamroller?
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I'm trying to play the "war game", that is what the game is all about now, not fighting. So how would you recommend defending against 20-30-50 people missions? My horde doesn't grab bases as fast as the other so I try to slow the others down.
We know upping from the attacked base is only good the first time, then the vulch light is lit.
Upping from a second base either gets you there too slow, or if you up a 262 in time to catch the tail end and maybe, just maybe a goon to prolong that "battle" (and I use that term VERY loosely).
The other option mention is "avoid" :rofl
So, how would you slow the rolling steamroller?
If you up those bombers one or two bases back, you are still in the air when the next base is taken... That doesn't mean you cancel your mission. Redirect to the base they just took. Destroy those FH's.
This isn't that absurd or difficult, guys.
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Fugitive,
these guys often take multiple trips because for example, they will crash into the ground on their bomb runs, etc... This means you can catch them with their pants down by attacking the base they are upping from, or vulch them as they are upping.
This only fails when they are upping from a CV. All I can say about that is that I think HTC allows the CVs come too close to the shore. I've seen cases where people can't even up, because the cv ack shoots the planes as they up off of the airfield.
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If you up those bombers one or two bases back, you are still in the air when the next base is taken... That doesn't mean you cancel your mission. Redirect to the base they just took. Destroy those FH's.
This isn't that absurd or difficult, guys.
No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.
Those hangers are already down. Remember these guys flatten everything. So I guess I could circle until they come back up, but why? They have no intentions of using this base they just took, they are off on the other side of the map sneaking up on another base. Of course I could fly around all night, everynight and porking ord all over the fronts. Jeee that sounds like fun! :rolleyes:
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Now you are nit picking.
No. Refute the arguments or concede
The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.
I've never played EVE. I know nothing about it. For all I know there's some significant differences that make direct analogy invalid. I said this already.
"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.
Uncomprehensive, see above. AH wise: how do you fight back a horde and what does this specific case say about the system as a whole, which is the level at which operates the topic "what to can/should be done about hordes". "Adapt and fight back" is just platonics if you simply say it and never specify details. Let's put it another way with a proper analogy: Engineering is the art of making what you want from what's available, at a profit. How would you design a response to AH hordes? The saliency of the engineering analogy is that in AH you only have so many resources.
Not really, the same "type" of people play all games (nice, mean, helpful, unhelpful, strategic, brutal, etc.). The only difference are the interest points.
Your credibility just lawdarted. You're either purposefully skewing or just haven't been around enough games. AH is one of the more casual, friendly games. Aside the superfluous real estater/furballer purse fights, there's nothing in AH that compares with some of the sheer rotten attitude prevalent in many games. You don't know what you're talking about on this one.
Difference is, people in EVE know this is human nature.
Vague truism and stated as fact without evidence IE links to sufficient EVE forum posts, assuming that were enough rather than ACTUAL gameplay survey
In fact, the game developers do nothing to stop it, why? Because it adds personality to the game.
Again, one has to bother with going to EVE forum, surveying them, etc, before taking this statement as credible.
Games that are too strict become tiresome and repetitive.
Show that homogeneous horde is less repetitive than balanced fights.
Saying it is human nature is perfectly sufficient. Yes there are 'cultural' differences at the core of a game. For instance in AH we supposedly have furballers and toolshedders as our 'culture'. But that is only the core basis of this game. When you look at the whole player base human nature is very apparent in many, many forms. This evidence of human nature, in this case - path of least resitance - is apparent across all games. Smack talking and bravado being another couple of traits that fit human nature and span all forms of competitive interaction.
inaccurate
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No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.
Thats rare, last night, we stopped them and that is what Vampires post was about in the BBS. It usually takes them several flights, unless everyone ignores them.
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No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.
Those hangers are already down. Remember these guys flatten everything. So I guess I could circle until they come back up, but why? They have no intentions of using this base they just took, they are off on the other side of the map sneaking up on another base. Of course I could fly around all night, everynight and porking ord all over the fronts. Jeee that sounds like fun! :rolleyes:
Again make vulching count for nothing and out of that 40-50 peep horde 20 will go elsewhere :aok 20 vs 3 now those are odds I like :rock :rock
still trying waystin :neener:
JUGgler
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Your credibility just lawdarted. You're either purposefully skewing or just haven't been around enough games. AH is one of the more casual, friendly games. Aside the superfluous real estater/furballer purse fights, there's nothing in AH that compares with some of the sheer rotten attitude prevalent in many games. You don't know what you're talking about on this one.
So you are more credible on the topic then? I'd like to know how you figure.
What game has a sheer rotten attitude? Are you talking about Call of Duty? Because I know a LOT of extremely nice and fun people in that game. Are you talking about the Battlefield series? Because my friends list on steam is full of awesome guys I play with.
Or are you basing this assumption on the people who talk on the "all chat?" All chat is hardly ever comprised of the people that are worth associating with. Out of all the games I've played, I've never found the majority to have a "sheer rotten attitude," only the minority, but they make a big stink about it.
Aces High has all the same types of characters as any other online game, there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case. It takes all kinds to make a game MMO, and all kinds is what you will get. I agree, AH has a lot of friendly players, but just like every other game, there are definite rotten apples. Those same "purse fights" are the same things that happen in other games too.
If you don't agree with something I'm saying, please prove otherwise. Just stating "not credible" doesn't do much for me in this discussion. If you want evidence, I can find you threads on the EVE forum if you'd like, but I have a feeling you don't actually care to read them.
What other MMOG do you play, moot? Perhaps I can relate to you using that game.
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So you are more credible on the topic then? I'd like to know how you figure.
What game has a sheer rotten attitude? Are you talking about Call of Duty? Because I know a LOT of extremely nice and fun people in that game. Are you talking about the Battlefield series? Because my friends list on steam is full of awesome guys I play with.
Or are you basing this assumption on the people who talk on the "all chat?" All chat is hardly ever comprised of the people that are worth associating with. Out of all the games I've played, I've never found the majority to have a "sheer rotten attitude," only the minority, but they make a big stink about it.
Aces High has all the same types of characters as any other online game, there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case. It takes all kinds to make a game MMO, and all kinds is what you will get.
If you don't agree with something I'm saying, please prove otherwise. Just stating "not credible" doesn't do much for me in this discussion. If you want evidence, I can find you threads on the EVE forum if you'd like, but I have a feeling you don't actually care to read them.
What other MMOG do you play, moot? Perhaps I can relate to you using that game.
This is the only online game I play, I do play another MMO though
M y M anly O rgan that is :banana:
JUGgler
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority. It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale. The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.
HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
Its a mistake to think that because only a minority is speaking up here that the number of people complaining is small. Only a very small percentage of people ever spend any time on the boards. And even fewer jump in on threads that are already 5 pages long in the first 24 hours.
Some of us might have a bit of experience in actually playing this game or very similar ones each and every day too. Some of us for near 20 years. We too can see and have a first hand feel for whats working and what might be able to be tweaked to better serve the overall community as a whole large and small alike.
But rather then view or suggest that such commentary and suggestions as some sort of non existent slight on Hitech. I find it rather commendable that people care enough about the success of the game to provide their own insights and thought based on their experiences both here and elsewhere. And to the credit of HTC. They have shown a willingness to adapt and try different things not only on their own. But also based on player input. The players themselves are after all. the sand in the sandbox. Some things worked and some didnt. The beauty of it is it can always be changed back if it doesn't work out as hoped
As for my own suggestions. Not one thing I suggested with the exception of hard side limits would limit anyone's anything cept how many planes would be able to be up from a particular base at any given time. You could still have your horde. You just would have to be more creative and put in more thought in doing so. It would add depth to the game and a greater sense of realism. It would be less of a mob mentality and become a bit more cerebral and sense of team effort instead of just playing follow the leader like a bunch of elephants holding each others tails at a circus.
At worst it would spread the furball fight over a larger front. Where on maps that have 150 billion bases otherwise unused wouldnt be a bad thing and getting to the center mass unscathed might be a rather fun challenge in itself. And it should still leave enough left over on most of the maps for the sneak attack here and there as well as the smallest of engagements.
If it were entirely up to me. I'd take it a few dozen steps even further. Small bases would be fighter and light bomber only. Medium bases fighter to medium bombers and the big bombers such as the B29s, 17s and lancasters, would only be able to up at the big bases. And types of load outs available at the bases would also be reflective of the bases size, and thus its ability to house and store such ordinance.. But thats very unlikely to ever happen even though it might be interesting. There would simply be too many howls.
In the end. I dont see anyone telling HT how to run his business. I do see people who feel that they recognize that there is a legitimate problem/s and are offering creative suggestions to address them. If it werent seen by some as a legitimate problem. This thread would never have stayed pretty much on topic for going on 19 pages now. Now how or even if HTC decides to deal with it is entirely up to them as usual.
All we can do is provide input. And thats all I see anyone really doing.
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So you are more credible on the topic then? I'd like to know how you figure.
I can't be responsible for replying to counter-arguments to arguments I never made
What game has a sheer rotten attitude? Are you talking about Call of Duty? Because I know a LOT of extremely nice and fun people in that game. Are you talking about the Battlefield series? Because my friends list on steam is full of awesome guys I play with.
Dark (bright) side of the moon fallacy
Or are you basing this assumption on the people who talk on the "all chat?" All chat is hardly ever comprised of the people that are worth associating with. Out of all the games I've played, I've never found the majority to have a "sheer rotten attitude," only the minority, but they make a big stink about it.
No, ch200 is nothing compared to some of the crap in other games, and still significantly better, by virtue of ch200 being so segregated from the rest of AH, than most of the ambient atmosphere in many other games
Aces High has all the same types of characters as any other online game, there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case. It takes all kinds to make a game MMO, and all kinds is what you will get. I agree, AH has a lot of friendly players, but just like every other game, there are definite rotten apples. Those same "purse fights" are the same things that happen in other games too.
Relativism
AH is relatively very laid back, humor is much less stressed, temperament of flight sim pile-its is much more relaxed
If you don't agree with something I'm saying, please prove otherwise. Just stating "not credible" doesn't do much for me in this discussion. If you want evidence, I can find you threads on the EVE forum if you'd like, but I have a feeling you don't actually care to read them.
Where did I say only "not credible"?
I'm not going to thoroughly dig into all the things that factor into what you can expect from playing a game - forums, players, gameplay design, etc - just so I can see if what you say is right or not in this argument. The onus is on you to prove that EVE is proper analogy IE not a flawed analogy, and characteristic IE not a single data point fluke
What other MMOG do you play, moot? Perhaps I can relate to you using that game.
I expect this leads to an argument on any given game we both have played, where you could pretend things aren't as I pretend. A dead end. Especially considering my instinct telling me we have different standards.
"Massive" in MMOG is not relevant to "human nature" argument. I've played many games (too many to recall off hand) but the gist of my argument stems mainly from experience in games rife with younger players (not negligible proportion of all games). They're childish and the atmosphere is comparable to what you find in a forum like 4chan. Cretinous insistence on trashy standards.
You can do the detective legwork if you like. What you will find is that, probably in no small part due to AH's niche-sized population, AH is a notably homely population. HiTech is spot on saying that a tightly woven community, e.g. via 32-player limited squads, is the fabric of a healthy game. Unlike what you'd expect if you myopically adhered to the MMOG criteria
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inaccurate
incorrect
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I can't be responsible for replying to counter-arguments to arguments I never made
Well for someone to say that someone else isn't credible on a topic, they themselves have to be credible in some way, therefor it's implied.
Dark (bright) side of the moon fallacy
Sure, then I could reply with "you just have a negative outlook."
No, ch200 is nothing compared to some of the crap in other games, and still significantly better, by virtue of ch200 being so segregated from the rest of AH, than most of the ambient atmosphere in many other games
Relativism
AH is relatively very laid back, humor is much less stressed, temperament of flight sim pile-its is much more relaxed
200 is known for being full of just trash talking most of the time, and none of it seems very relaxed. The only time I really see constant reasonable talk is during the off-hours.
I don't see how you've managed to avoid the same kind of positive chatter we can sometimes get on 200 in other games... I see it all the time.
Where did I say only "not credible"?
You told me that I was not credible, then told mechanic that what he said is "inaccurate" without any defense behind the statement.
I'm not going to thoroughly dig into all the things that factor into what you can expect from playing a game - forums, players, gameplay design, etc - just so I can see if what you say is right or not in this argument. The onus is on you to prove that EVE is proper analogy IE not a flawed analogy, and characteristic IE not a single data point fluke
I offered to pull up threads from the EVE forum.
I'm not going to let you discredit the point I was trying to make. All games have "poor behavior" that people have to adapt to and combat. For instance, while not on the same scale, in AH people have adapted to the HO, and they avoid it.
To me, it seems people don't like the horde because it means they have to move to another base against their will in order to fight like they want.
I expect this leads to an argument on any given game we both have played, where you could pretend things aren't as I pretend. A dead end. Especially considering my instinct telling me we have different standards.
Or one of us might be enlightened. I don't know about you, but if someone proves to me that this horde situation is out of control and needs to be contained, I'll change my mind. I just haven't seen any solid arguments other than it cramps their style.
I feel like the same people that complain about the horde are the same ones that say they don't care about winning the war. So if they just losing bases, why does it bother them so much?
"Massive" in MMOG is not relevant to "human nature" argument. I've played many games (too many to recall off hand) but the gist of my argument stems mainly from experience in games rife with younger players (not negligible proportion of all games). They're childish and the atmosphere is comparable to what you find in a forum like 4chan. Cretinous insistence on trashy standards.
You can do the detective legwork if you like. What you will find is that, probably in no small part due to AH's niche-sized population, AH is a notably homely population. HiTech is spot on saying that a tightly woven community, e.g. via 32-player limited squads, is the fabric of a healthy game. Unlike what you'd expect if you myopically adhered to the MMOG criteria
Saying it's not relevant doesn't make much sense to me. You get a lot of people in a game with a common goal, and human nature rears it's ugly head. I can't see how they don't correlate?
I agree, portions of AH are homely and tightly woven and that does stand out from many MMOG's. But that really doesn't change the fact that humans are humans and you're playing against a lot of them, it just changes that you might know who they are.
My standards could be different, or maybe it's that I am a live and let live type of person. I may not like getting horded, but I'm not going to go and tell them that what they are doing is wrong just because I can't up at the airfield I want to up at.
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From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."
The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something. Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority. It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale. The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.
HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
Why would the majority complain about themselves? :headscratch:
Anyway I am not complaining let alone about the horde, my focus is the VOOOLCH! savy? :salute
JUGgler
LMAO! Classic
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When HiTech was working on Combat Tour, I had always thought a game like that would far to structured and regimented to be fun for me. I was happy with the eb and flow of our little "war" and the battles that raged across the maps. Over the last few years however, while the main arenas were not lead by a single person, or strict rules, the chaos that has come out of it has become all consuming.
Mentioned was the trash talking. Years ago there was trash talking, but it was all game related, "about time you pulled the training wheels off and got in a real plane don't cha think?" It was good natured and all meant in fun. Today it is far more personal. Verbal bullying is the norm. Again an instance of going over board.
Today I'd be happy with a single leader, and a lot more rules. At least everyone would be on the same page.
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18 pages and you ppl haven't figured out what Hitech wants yet?
(http://0.tqn.com/d/cocktails/1/0/6/7/-/-/christies_auction.jpg)
/thread
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No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.
Sounds like they were pretty organized, and the defenders weren't.
If you're really watching the map, you would have known they were coming and would have had more time to react. (C'mon--ya gotta admit--5-8 minutes is pretty quick)
Then again, you can't catch em ALL in time.
But when you do--------- its a blast.
And just like that old song said: Some times ya win, some times ya loooooooooooose, Good time Charlies got the blues.
(Yes, I've been drinkin!) :D
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Well for someone to say that someone else isn't credible on a topic, they themselves have to be credible in some way, therefor it's implied.
Ok now I'm pretty convinced you must be pretty young. A truth is true regardless who says is.
Sure, then I could reply with "you just have a negative outlook."
Agree to disagree. Your pov dont weigh much.
200 is known for being full of just trash talking most of the time, and none of it seems very relaxed. The only time I really see constant reasonable talk is during the off-hours.
Not true and this just kills your credibility in my eyes. Most obvious e.g. FPS games where the bitterness is orders of magnitude worse than AH. Literally like taking on par with 4chan crass
You told me that I was not credible, then told mechanic that what he said is "inaccurate" without any defense behind the statement.
What did I ask you? You said it wasn't enough to say not credible to which I replied that I never said only "not credible", which is correct. I never replied to you with "not credible" and nothing more. Batfink is irrelevant.
I offered to pull up threads from the EVE forum.
Which is evidence I suggested you ought to show; and you've yet to.
I'm not going to let you discredit the point I was trying to make. All games have "poor behavior" that people have to adapt to and combat. For instance, while not on the same scale, in AH people have adapted to the HO, and they avoid it.
Your agenda shouldn't be blind and passionate defense of any given point but adoption of fittest argument. Adapting to HO is already more detailed than platitudes like "just adapt to hordes".
To me, it seems people don't like the horde because it means they have to move to another base against their will in order to fight like they want.
There's many reasons for not liking the horde, most valid of these being that the horde waters down gameplay quality. Gameplay of AH is air combat. That is, dogfighting. Kills by horde is akin to vulching, only whereas vulching's purposedly gratuitous, hording denies an opportunity for a fair fight, even if in this fair fight those in the horde never do let the hordees win. The horde typically simply overwhelms its outnumbered victims. There is no gameplay there any more than there is gameplay for the vulcher and vulchee.
Or one of us might be enlightened. I don't know about you, but if someone proves to me that this horde situation is out of control and needs to be contained, I'll change my mind. I just haven't seen any solid arguments other than it cramps their style.
If you really want that enlightenment you could search the dozens of previous threads on the topic. At least a few fairly made points by the "anti"-horde posters
I feel like the same people that complain about the horde are the same ones that say they don't care about winning the war. So if they just losing bases, why does it bother them so much?
Completely misses their point which is, no exaggeration, obvious. See directly above with vulch analogy. This is the crux of the matter and every other argument in your post is superfluous
Saying it's not relevant doesn't make much sense to me. You get a lot of people in a game with a common goal, and human nature rears it's ugly head. I can't see how they don't correlate?
Don't correlate cause that's not all there is to it.
I agree, portions of AH are homely and tightly woven and that does stand out from many MMOG's. But that really doesn't change the fact that humans are humans and you're playing against a lot of them, it just changes that you might know who they are.
?? platonics; no particulars. Picking at random... Call of duty or any of the FPSes are filled to the brim with crass behavior
I may not like getting horded, but I'm not going to go and tell them that what they are doing is wrong just because I can't up at the airfield I want to up at.
Implying I did? I never did. Why would you imply I did when I didn't? Because you still don't fully grasp rhetorics.
My standards could be different, or maybe it's that I am a live and let live type of person.
unspecific platonics
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Alright moot, I'm sorry but I've lost interest. Stopped reading after you said my point of view "doesn't weigh much." Plus your passive aggressive argument style is a waste of my time.
Not sure how you think your opinion is worth more than mine, but have at it. I've said my bit anyway.
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No passive aggressivity, and what does style have to do with anything? What if a foreign guy shows up in this discussion and makes valid points with a style you dislike? Textbook example of cognitive bias. Relevance, reason is what's relevant, not style. I don't think my opinion is inherently worth more than yours. You said your bit and it fails previous discussions' consensus IOW look up previous discussions and see for yourself how your arguments stack up
There's no shame in being young and inexperienced. Shame itself is fallacious but... so to speak, it's shameful to give up or at least not try.
You need to read up on cognitive bias and rhetorical fallacies. Sounds like you're aware of them but haven't done them justice. Don't pretend to win arguments. "The only way to truly win a debate is to know the opponent's arguments better than he does"
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"The only way to truly win a debate is to know the opponent's arguments better than he does"
no wonder you hate arguing with me so much :D
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Style matters, if you want someone to be receptive and you are well aware of that. But you weren't out to convince me otherwise, you were trolling.
Perhaps if you presented information, or said to search for something specifically and outright my ideals on the matter might be swayed. I'm not hard headed nor do I argue just to argue or to win. I want someone to either help me view what might be the truth or somehow see that my ideas are correct. I have gained NEITHER from this discussion. Instead, you decided to nit pick stupid details in a passive aggressive manor, and then go on to say that somehow my point of view doesn't carry weight (what kind of person says that, really?).
You know exactly what you were trying to do, no one is accidentally passive aggressive. I'm actually fairly upset with myself that I've managed to let you get under my skin.
I'm 22, so yes, I am young.
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no wonder you hate arguing with me so much :D
wrong on all counts. You're chasing an emotional reward that doesn't exist.
Style matters, if you want someone to be receptive and you are well aware of that. But you weren't out to convince me otherwise, you were trolling.
wrong, unless you're debating someone less than honest. Style is irrelevant unless appeals to emotion are considered not fallacious. They are.
Welcome to the real world. Not everyone is from your home town, not everyone expresses themselves with tropes familiar to you. The only common ground with foreign cultures is reason and empirical evidence. Formal rhetorics were codified a long time ago... Look them up and see for yourself. Don't try to use them for any agenda other than the truth... Whatever the truth is. IOW regardless whether it contradicts or supports your current beliefs.
Perhaps if you presented information, or said to search for something specifically and outright my ideals on the matter might be swayed.
I can't think of anything more specific than... "hordes" "toolsheders" or "toolshedders" plural or singular, "furballers", "CV", "drop fighter hangars" and so on. Sorry. By and large these discussions were in General Discussion forum, though.
I'm not hard headed nor do I argue just to argue or to win. I want someone to either help me view what might be the truth or somehow see that my ideas are correct. I have gained NEITHER from this discussion. Instead, you decided to nit pick stupid details in a passive aggressive manor, and the go on to say that somehow my point of view doesn't carry weight (what kind of person says that, really?).
If you're motivated by unconditional want of truth, start with the bold part. I don't nit pick (note I pointed out which argument of yours actually was hitting the heart of the matter and was most worth pursuing) and don't do passive aggression. Take my word for it.
You know exactly what you were trying to do, no one is accidentally passive aggressive. I'm actually fairly upset with myself that I've managed to let you get under my skin.
Completely wrong, lighten up.
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Some serious quote wars going down in this thread. :lol
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Some serious quote wars going down in this thread. :lol
says you :neener:
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Some serious quote wars going down in this thread. :lol
I'd never have the patience for it sober.
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Well, then don't combat it and go elsewhere. But don't complain about it happening.
Perhaps you're right and I should just take my money elsewhere.
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Perhaps you're right and I should just take my money elsewhere.
dude, don't take the game so seriously....
step 1
1) forget about score
2) think of it as a bar with airplanes
3) joke around and don't care, have fun, and if people are being lame, its an excuse for humor.
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oh forgot step 2, almost like you :neener:
step 2
have fun.....
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...
I'm aware you are well versed in debate tactics and I'm sure you got the desired results.
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wrong and now it sounds like you wish I were passive aggressive etc
You're too involved emotionally to take plain sense spelled out at face value
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oh forgot step 2, almost like you :neener:
step 2
have fun.....
Isn't this just what we're tryign to discuss here? That the fun aspect is gone when you are against stupendously overwhelming odds? Even if you absolutely rule the skies you're in the end limited by time and the ammo/fuel you have available.
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wrong and now it sounds like you wish I were passive aggressive etc
You're too involved emotionally to take plain sense spelled out at face value
I don't wish anything except for you to stop saying that everything I say is wrong (I'm not even sure how you managed to say 'wrong' to that).
Of course I'm involved emotionally, I'm human, and I don't have the skill and practice you do in removing myself from arguments and discussions.
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Ripley the way I see it... The only way to fairly judge the hordes is to say: they've got more friends than you do. Because really they're only using the same rules everyone is. They sure are having their fun at the expense of everyone else's, but can you say they broke any rules? These guys are playing the rules for all they're worth and the best response is to team up with friends of your own and give em a good fight. It's somewhat unfortunate for any of the casual squads like (in my impression) any of the squads you or I have been in, that squads like the horde squads have a monopoly on soaking up all the free radical players into their land grabbing machinery; that on any given night their squad will outnumber your friends (squad) or mine.
That's probably what they're not sensible to. In all previous debates, except one where Joker admitted as much, the horde is oblivious to the simple point that a fight's only as good as the peril it challenges. No peril, no victory. No proportionate defense against their horde attack, no meaning to their land grab.
Fun as a criteria doesn't lead very far. Their fun evidently doesn't match yours and vice versa.
I don't wish anything except for you to stop saying that everything I say is wrong
I'll say it everytime you're wrong
(I'm not even sure how you managed to say 'wrong' to that).
See for yourself:
I'm aware you are well versed in debate tactics
Only by so much practice and
and I'm sure you got the desired results.
you throwing a fit and going into "hands on ears lalalalalalala" mode isn't my desired result
Of course I'm involved emotionally, I'm human, and I don't have the skill and practice you do in removing myself from arguments and discussions.
Sounds like some of that passive aggression you pretend I rely on. Removing yourself AKA dispassionate perspective is what any debater should strive for. Don't take my word for it. Approach the idea from a different direction - consider this: Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
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doppelposten
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I wasn't being passive aggressive, it was a compliment to your abilities. I'm sorry if I wrote it in a way that sounded off-putting.
My hands weren't to my ears, and still aren't. But comments like this:
Your credibility just lawdarted. You're either purposefully skewing or just haven't been around enough games. AH is one of the more casual, friendly games. Aside the superfluous real estater/furballer purse fights, there's nothing in AH that compares with some of the sheer rotten attitude prevalent in many games. You don't know what you're talking about on this one.
Are completely unwarranted, and are what really set me off and is where the:
So you are more credible on the topic then? I'd like to know how you figure.
comment spawned from. Just because I'm 22 and have different views doesn't mean that "I don't know what I'm talking about."
You may not agree, but I do see the similarities in the people in all online games I've played, be it an FPS, MMORPG, or an RTS. There are those who are cool and nice, then there are those who have a "sheer rotten attitude." I believe both co-exist in this game as well, as I have seen both. The reason I feel some games come off as more of a rotten attitude are because chatting in games like FPS's often isn't done unless someone is extremely unhappy with something someone did. Conversations don't happen as openly in those games as they do on 200, so yes, in that sense it is more casual and friendly. But you can argue that those purse fights are the only times people talk in other games.
Just saying, that comment I believe is where I became angry and "pluged my ears" so to speak. And if your goal wasn't to get under my skin, some of your earlier comments certainly don't imply that by any means.
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comments like this:You don't know what you're talking about on this one.
Are completely unwarranted
Not true and in ten years you'll look back and agree with me. Also this and are what really set me off and is where the:
So you are more credible on the topic then? I'd like to know how you figure.
comment spawned from.
concedes that you were arguing from emotion rather than objectively. Malesuada fames
..
I frankly don't know what planet you're from if you think the attitude of players in EG most first person shooter multiplayer games (majority of online games unless I'm mistaken) isn't repulsive. AH might've been crawling closer to it as it became more popular, but it's still nowhere near those games. Whether or not you believe me, I think being older allows me to see some things you might not perceive.
Similarities between AH and other games yes. The important thing isn't just finding similarities or differences but tallying them and justifying, quantifying their relevance.
The main long term medium of AH is squads. I honestly haven't seen a shred of evidence that squads in AH are on average nearly as dirty (can't think of any better word), to put it in a nutshell, as the average "clan" in first person shooters. And first person shooters are a major part of online video games nowadays. My intuitive impression is that it's because the themes of those games are, supercilious as it might sound, more crude. There's many less crude games but... for whatever reason, if there's a reason, many of those games are full of pretentious salamanders. I'm not trying to pick any fights, I'm just calling it for what it is. Aces High for whatever reason is one of the few games that strikes a compromise between nerdiness and brass tacks. Not a negligible instance: this forum. Or other flight sim forums? All the FPS forums I've ever seen are akin to 4chan: incessant puerile food fights.
And as you indirectly point out in those games the action is usually much more frantic, hence much less idle time to whittle away with banter.
All of this is off topic. Maybe you can argue what I suggested on the original topic.
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I'm not sure I will, as I don't believe one can outright say that another person's experiences are wrong. However, time will tell and it is irrelevant anyway.
No, I think I will leave this thread behind and chalk it up to stress.
My apologizes to everyone for the tangent and these shenanigans.
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Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.
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The "very large portion" of your statement is purely speculation.
It could also be said that a "very large portion" of people are quite happy with the game the way it is.
But that would also be speculation.
And I'm sure HTC is closely monitoring how many people "vote" with their feet.
If there was some sort of mass exodus going on he would be aware of it and react accordingly.
+ 1 why is there a crisis thread every month or so?? Just because a few people think something sucks in the game doesn't mean we all feel that way, and MrRipley your 'a customer' not 'the customers' the customers as a whole make HTCs business and we all don't think like you do. Your in the software business right? So you helped make your software? Generally speaking what kind of software is it if you don't mind me asking?
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wrong on all counts. You're chasing an emotional reward that doesn't exist.
Thank you, Dr. Moot :aok
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I have gained NEITHER from this discussion. Instead, you decided to nit pick stupid details in a passive aggressive manor, and then go on to say that somehow my point of view doesn't carry weight (what kind of person says that, really?).
I'd get into this just for laughs, but it's beneath me.
Why?
Because I was to the "passive-aggressive manor" born.
Bahahaha.
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oh forgot step 2, almost like you :neener:
step 2
have fun.....
I'm still not seeing the source of this whole thing. Last night, the only "horde" I saw was a fomration of 4 boxes o' lancs accompanied by a 47 and 51. They were bish ganging a base unopposed. But think about it - it'd only take a handful of opposition to drop a loaf in that punchbowl.
I didn't up from that base, clearly, since the assault was well under way but instead upped from another with the intent to see if I could come in and ruin that party. Before that could happen ,though, I got in a nice 1v1 with Dorsey in his Jug. It was a bad night for me and I lost but we had a salute-level combat.
This just looks like carping. I'd love to see some data on hording frequency. I'll even propose a metric... let's try duration or frequency of occurrence of 10+ enemy fighter ac caps in a given arena.
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Who else looked at the OP's screen shot and instantly got a hard on? Dam, I've played this game too long. :uhoh
Fugitive, less QQ more pewpew, k.
/thread.
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Thank you, Dr. Moot :aok
Moot has been getting deep. What is that bird (in his avatar) smoking? :bolt:
Meanwhile, back at the OP:
Its not even fun trying to see how long you can last i that mess with 5-10 guy diving on you at once. Launching from the next base is a waste of time as the horde gobbles up the base in under 5 minutes which is more than quick enough to be gone and looking for the next NOE path before a defender could get there from an adjacent base.
On the current Titanic Tuesday map, last night, there was a great horde vs horde action. The field being contested was A98, having overlapping dar circles with friendly A99 (4.0k). The red guys had A78 a little farther out, and a few other airfields within a couple of sectors. Towards the end, a red task group was getting close.
For at least an hour, there were two full dar bars in the sector. Hangars went down and came up. Fights started high and ended up on the deck. Both sides kept replenishing. It was awesome. :aok
It was a reminder of why I play the game.
Post script: The change to 75% on the town seems to go a long way towards allowing a defense to develop.
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+ 1 why is there a crisis thread every month or so?? Just because a few people think something sucks in the game doesn't mean we all feel that way, and MrRipley your 'a customer' not 'the customers' the customers as a whole make HTCs business and we all don't think like you do. Your in the software business right? So you helped make your software? Generally speaking what kind of software is it if you don't mind me asking?
Pervert you're 'a customer' too and your opinnion weighs just as much as mine. If you participate in steamrolls and fail to see how that can affect other players you just have a social problem or are too young to be empathic :)
In answer to your other question:
Bid calculation and project management.
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guys try to remember what this ridiculous thread is about one guy doesn't like how a large percentage of the other players play the game which I concur "at times" can be annoying if your on the receiving end but when it comes right down to it ITS JUST A DAM GAME. try to step back sometimes and look outside at the larger picture. I have to do it all the time. And to Fugi sir how many posts just like this one have you put up in the last 6 months? have they changed anything? has Hitech stepped out from somewhere and gave you some kinda quota you must meet before he'll make changes that you agree with? the answers to these questions is NO so what is it you hope to accomplish with IMO is ranting. what? what is it? tell you what next time you wanna post one of these why not call Hitech and ask him first..... end all this business before it starts....................... .................TY AND TRY TO HAVE A NICE DAY. :bolt:
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many of those games are full of pretentious salamanders.
Thats is a bit harsh, isn't it?
:cool:,
Wab
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lookin over your post you must be talkin bout someone else
you might oughta make sure your talkin to the right person. :P
And you know this how? He is not a part of a buffing/landgrabbing squad. This must be a shade account or you just don't know what you are talking about.
All the Best...
Jay
Mojo is most certainly thinking of another Vudu, as The Flying Circus doesn't operate that way.
yes I am probally talking about another vudu player. I know the Flying Circus does not play in this way. The vudu player I was thinking of use to fly with them playmates! Those actions I reported was happening in the midwar arena. I am so so sorry I confused you with that vudu player, please if you don't mind would you accept my apology for thinking you was another person. The Flying Circus is a well honored and respected group in these parts!
all the best
the LiZaRd KiNg
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guys try to remember what this ridiculous thread is about one guy doesn't like how a large percentage of the other players play the game which I concur "at times" can be annoying if your on the receiving end but when it comes right down to it ITS JUST A DAM GAME. try to step back sometimes and look outside at the larger picture. I have to do it all the time. And to Fugi sir how many posts just like this one have you put up in the last 6 months? have they changed anything? has Hitech stepped out from somewhere and gave you some kinda quota you must meet before he'll make changes that you agree with? the answers to these questions is NO so what is it you hope to accomplish with IMO is ranting. what? what is it? tell you what next time you wanna post one of these why not call Hitech and ask him first..... end all this business before it starts....................... .................TY AND TRY TO HAVE A NICE DAY. :bolt:
Yeah yeah when you see a large percentage of streetwalkers gang stomping some random citizen you just join the gang and stomp the mutha! That's what the group is doing so they must be right, right? I mean if so many are stomping it's the stompees problem if he doesnt like it obviously. He should use tiger karate moves or sumptin!
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Thats is a bit harsh, isn't it?
:cool:,
Wab
Wabbit... I still can't believe some of the stuff I've seen. One guy was made to "stand at attention" for an hour for not following some rule or other.
Uh huh.. :salute
Yeah yeah when you see a large percentage of streetwalkers gang stomping some random citizen you just join the gang and stomp the mutha! That's what the group is doing so they must be right, right? I mean if so many are stomping it's the stompees problem if he doesnt like it obviously. He should use tiger karate moves or sumptin!
Yeah, just speak the magic words "adapt and fight back" :lol Click his heels three times.
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/thread.
I already tried that. :frown:
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Yeah yeah when you see a large percentage of streetwalkers gang stomping some random citizen you just join the gang and stomp the mutha! That's what the group is doing so they must be right, right? I mean if so many are stomping it's the stompees problem if he doesnt like it obviously. He should use tiger karate moves or sumptin!
Actually I prefer the "sleeping cobra" :rofl :rofl
JUGgler
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These guys are playing the rules for all they're worth and the best response is to team up with friends of your own and give em a good fight.
That advice isn't of much value to guise like Sunbat.
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That guy's everything wrong with AH.
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Yeah yeah when you see a large percentage of streetwalkers gang stomping some random citizen you just join the gang and stomp the mutha! That's what the group is doing so they must be right, right? I mean if so many are stomping it's the stompees problem if he doesnt like it obviously. He should use tiger karate moves or sumptin!
well if you were lookin at my post it happens to everyone, all sides, all countires, comparing this to real life is a complete joke sir and you should stop. Tell you a story about "the horde" Chewie's missions are all numbers all the time, horde the base yet this man has so little actual skill in mission planning and execution that if the mission succeeds its by pure numbers alone and random bits of luck.....his sheer amount of stupidity in the way he runs and plans his missions ABSOLUTY Pisses me off and I will not join his missions EVER. that said if Ghi ups a B26s raid to shut y'all down (whomever that may be) Ill be right along with em. Now Rip I know your a good stick Ive fought you before but you and fugitive need to get off yalls pitty pot and either fight where and when you can or get out but I'm tired of listening to the same sad song week after week after week and you know what I could give a crap less if you dint like me the plane or how and when I fly. I'm not gunna step into your house and tell you what to do and y'all have no right to either. So lay off with yawls petty BS, and grow a dam pair........whew! ok Chewie if your reading this I'm sorry sir its true and I will not take it back.
P.S. If I was drivin along and some poor soul being stomped by a bunch of folks I'm pretty sure one of two thing would be happening 1. Id be persuading those gentlemen that Mr. Colts fine machine is a great deterrent to stomping or playin bumper cars with some folks and filing for some insurance. Mojo yes sir and no problem I was wondering if you had the wrong guy there are at least 3 Vudus with different spellings and this is the second time Ive been mistaken for one of the other ones.
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well if you were lookin at my post it happens to everyone, all sides, all countires, comparing this to real life is a complete joke sir and you should stop. Tell you a story about "the horde" Chewie's missions are all numbers all the time, horde the base yet this man has so little actual skill in mission planning and execution that if the mission succeeds its by pure numbers alone and random bits of luck.....his sheer amount of stupidity in the way he runs and plans his missions ABSOLUTY Pisses me off and I will not join his missions EVER. that said if Ghi ups a B26s raid to shut y'all down (whomever that may be) Ill be right along with em. Now Rip I know your a good stick Ive fought you before but you and fugitive need to get off yalls pitty pot and either fight where and when you can or get out but I'm tired of listening to the same sad song week after week after week and you know what I could give a crap less if you dint like me the plane or how and when I fly. I'm not gunna step into your house and tell you what to do and y'all have no right to either. So lay off with yawls petty BS, and grow a dam pair........whew! ok Chewie if your reading this I'm sorry sir its true and I will not take it back.
P.S. If I was drivin along and some poor soul being stomped by a bunch of folks I'm pretty sure one of two thing would be happening 1. Id be persuading those gentlemen that Mr. Colts fine machine is a great deterrent to stomping or playin bumper cars with some folks and filing for some insurance. Mojo yes sir and no problem I was wondering if you had the wrong guy there are at least 3 Vudus with different spellings and this is the second time Ive been mistaken for one of the other ones.
:bhead
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Wabbit... I still can't believe some of the stuff I've seen. One guy was made to "stand at attention" for an hour for not following some rule or other.
Uh huh.. :salute
Oh I don't doubt you.
I was just questioning wether it justified comparing them to an uppity lizard.
:rofl,
Wab
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Moot:
I just reread everything from last night and I've come to the conclusion that I managed to take nearly every word you said the wrong way. I'm not sure if it's because I had been studying for midterms all day and/or because it was late, but I clearly was not tracking well.
My apologies, I hope you believe me when I say I don't usually respond to everything that irrationally.
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That's fine Sector. Nobody's perfect :) The important thing is moving on from mistakes without forgetting their lessons. Don't mean to sound all geriatric or brow beating but.. that's what it boils down to. I'm not arguing because I get off on you being wrong. Wrong is wrong and right is right. Right isn't wrong and wrong isn't right. Right? You can't ask for much more than a debate opponent who argues his points unheedingly to their conclusion, so long as no evidence pops up contrary to his points.
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guys try to remember what this ridiculous thread is about one guy doesn't like how a large percentage of the other players play the game which I concur "at times" can be annoying if your on the receiving end but when it comes right down to it ITS JUST A DAM GAME. try to step back sometimes and look outside at the larger picture. I have to do it all the time. And to Fugi sir how many posts just like this one have you put up in the last 6 months? have they changed anything? has Hitech stepped out from somewhere and gave you some kinda quota you must meet before he'll make changes that you agree with? the answers to these questions is NO so what is it you hope to accomplish with IMO is ranting. what? what is it? tell you what next time you wanna post one of these why not call Hitech and ask him first..... end all this business before it starts....................... .................TY AND TRY TO HAVE A NICE DAY. :bolt:
Well, your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion. I do find it interesting that if I'm the only guy that seems to have a problem with this issue that a thread started less than 4 days ago can have almost 4000 views. Looks like a number of people are interested in this.
To answer your question, I was serious when I asked my question, "Is this the way the game is going to be played?". I didn't think HiTech would answer publicly, but one he did I refined my questions a bit more, "But i'm serious, Is this what you and Pyro thought you where building towards?
Is this the game play environment that "splitting arenas" and"dar heights" and other changes that you where shooting for?
Do you believe that this is the best way to get the 2 weekers signed up and and to keep those subscribers long term?
To the peanut gallery...
Other than avoiding this how would you fight it?"
The answers were a bit few and far between, but what it comes down to is this,
1. join the horde, Skill is unnecessary other than having a good aim to shoot over other players shoulders to be able to kill the lone target being ganged by 5-10 of my friends.
2. join a bigger squad with more people on, in essence have a pre-made horde at hand.
3 fly only uber fast planes and pick from the horde.
4. Spend excess time in the tower scouring the map to find smaller fights that may creep up now and again.
5. quit, end your subscription.
The reason I asked the original question, was I'm not sure if Hitech and gang fly much any more. In the old days you use to see them on all the time and for the most part people wouldn't pester them with questions. So I was curious if 1. they knew what was going on, and 2 if this is the way they planned on having the game pan out. In the "old days" we fought for everything, it was what the game was all about. Today not so much. You even pointed it out in another post, "that said if Ghi ups a B26s raid to shut y'all down (whomever that may be) Ill be right along with em." In the old days we didn't "shut ya'll down" we fought with you until one side gave up or lost.
So if this is how the game is "suppose" to pan out I wanted to know "how" to play. Well now I do, pick, and get a better aim and become one of the horde. However it seems that I'm not the "only" one who noticed an issue, a number of other people seem to think its a problem as well. So who knows.
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6: early or midwar or ava
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P.S. If I was drivin along and some poor soul being stomped by a bunch of folks I'm pretty sure one of two thing would be happening 1. Id be persuading those gentlemen that Mr. Colts fine machine is a great deterrent to stomping or playin bumper cars with some folks and filing for some insurance.
Except that every stomper had colts too and two things would be happening: either you'd be pumped full of holes faster than you can count and/or you would end up bound, gagged and humiliated from behind from the first second you waved your little piece in front of the angry mob.
When it's you against 20 others on 100% even terms you just have no win option there. The best you can do is hit and run and leave 90% of the mob unaware of what you even did.
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To the peanut gallery...
Other than avoiding this how would you fight it?"
The answers were a bit few and far between, but what it comes down to is this,
1. join the horde, Skill is unnecessary other than having a good aim to shoot over other players shoulders to be able to kill the lone target being ganged by 5-10 of my friends.
2. join a bigger squad with more people on, in essence have a pre-made horde at hand.
3 fly only uber fast planes and pick from the horde.
4. Spend excess time in the tower scouring the map to find smaller fights that may creep up now and again.
5. quit, end your subscription.
6. Up an I-16 from a nearby, adjacent base. Dive in. Get kills and killed. Fighter hangars pop in the meantime. Up another I-16. Lather, rinse, repeat, as long as the fight lasts.
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Well, your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion. I do find it interesting that if I'm the only guy that seems to have a problem with this issue that a thread started less than 4 days ago can have almost 4000 views. Looks like a number of people are interested in this.
Or they just like to watch a good purse fight.
:lol,
Wab
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6. Up an I-16 from a nearby, adjacent base. Dive in. Get kills and killed. Fighter hangars pop in the meantime. Up another I-16. Lather, rinse, repeat, as long as the fight lasts.
Ehh some players actually play with survival as a goal so upping an i-16 and doing a suicide run would be about as appealing as upping a set of B24's, bomb and bail out afterwards.
There's a fundamental difference in gameplay styles, some people join the horde, shoot rockets, take a lame shot on vulch, lawndart, up again and repeat with no intention to fly back home. Then there are people who take pride in what they do and try to perform at their best, beat the odds without dying or dying as less bellybutton possible.
Good planned missions are not a problem if it happens on relatively level terms and the opposite side has a fighting chance (which is why I came to the idea of horde consuming temporarily resources so the defender could actually hurt them even though numbers wouldn't be even). A massive horde that succumbs all resistance is a gameplay killer for everyone but the 2-week noob who gets his kicks from the first assist as number 10 passer-by taking a potshot. Or perhaps the 10 year veteran who doesn't have the balls to fight 1:1 to pad score.
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Well sir your title ensured the 4k view count.....and have you ever flown ina "horde" the new guys aren't being shot all to pieces /mostly/ by the old hats so they can have a good time while generally doing next to nothing productive, but feel they are now a part of the game. while it was most likely a mission that started the horde into the base it may have just been a constant draw of guys going there, now keep in mind there may have been an equal fight but it seems if the older guys come in and get killed enough they move on and now you have little to no opposition and now an unfair advantage which in my book is just fine. you pop in to see a "horde in progress" oh woeest me...... what ever will i do Ill go to the BBs and complain. better yet. STOP....THINK....and make a plan.
One day I jumped into a situation such as this 3 fields with no limitations against 1 Bish base, bish were getting pummeled but were holding barely, keep in mind this was also during the 65ft dar settings which IIRC you liked easy to vector to targets with little to no effort...correct me if I'm wrong though. What do I do you might ask??????? well for the next roughly 4 hours I ran NOE through mountains and hit ord at all 3 fields it was 2 small and one med Field. was spotted on dar 3 or 4 times and shot down by folks just waiting for something like this. what happend? after all that work we held the Field bad guys got tired and as we gained #s we pushed and took the field, it wasn't a miracle it just takes a bit of effort. now if those few guys hadn't been holdin the field wouldn't have meant much but they did their job and did what I needed to do. So if a 21 year old kid such as myself can see it what are you missing sir?
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Well sir your title ensured the 4k view count.....and have you ever flown ina "horde" the new guys aren't being shot all to pieces /mostly/ by the old hats so they can have a good time while generally doing next to nothing productive, but feel they are now a part of the game. while it was most likely a mission that started the horde into the base it may have just been a constant draw of guys going there, now keep in mind there may have been an equal fight but it seems if the older guys come in and get killed enough they move on and now you have little to no opposition and now an unfair advantage which in my book is just fine. you pop in to see a "horde in progress" oh woeest me...... what ever will i do Ill go to the BBs and complain. better yet. STOP....THINK....and make a plan.
Ok let's agree to end up in a con, set up a cage and set you up with 20 equally weighed persons and boxing gloves as armament. Let's see what kind of a plan you're willing to think up lol :aok
I'm 100% sure your single and only plan will be to call for Mom to let you out of there and refuse to play. And I'm sure there will be no shortage of guys joining the 20 group either.
If you were exceptionally fast and nimble you might be able to take potshots and escape for a while before someone inevitably grabbed you, took you on the ground and 10 pairs of feet would stomp you.
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Well, your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion. I do find it interesting that if I'm the only guy that seems to have a problem with this issue that a thread started less than 4 days ago can have almost 4000 views. Looks like a number of people are interested in this.
To answer your question, I was serious when I asked my question, "Is this the way the game is going to be played?". I didn't think HiTech would answer publicly, but one he did I refined my questions a bit more, "But i'm serious, Is this what you and Pyro thought you where building towards?
I find your OP equivalent to the classic question "When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
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well Rip sounds like you'd just drive past and look the other way. which sounds pretty sad so IMO. I'm gunna tell you what though you come easing by ina car see that happening
1. phone the cops but seeing as your in this type of area that may be a bit so you pull a Rip and you drive home....OR
2. make the block....quickly or throw it in reverse
3. bring your car in at an angle so that you can fire but quickly use your car to disengage if needed.
4. little known fact bullets whizzing by you makes you think about being somewhere else. worst case you cant drive them off but you've bought the "stompee" some time.
But oh you'd be sittin at home waiting to watch it on the news wouldn't you......my bad.
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well Rip sounds like you'd just drive past and look the other way. which sounds pretty sad so IMO. I'm gunna tell you what though you come easing by ina car see that happening
1. phone the cops but seeing as your in this type of area that may be a bit so you pull a Rip and you drive home....OR
2. make the block....quickly or throw it in reverse
3. bring your car in at an angle so that you can fire but quickly use your car to disengage if needed.
4. little known fact bullets whizzing by you makes you think about being somewhere else. worst case you cant drive them off but you've bought the "stompee" some time.
But oh you'd be sittin at home waiting to watch it on the news wouldn't you......my bad.
If I knew that intervention would not be able to prevent what's happening and only end up me getting dead too, yeah I would surely not raise a finger (the cop analogy is stupid since you can't call cops on a horde on MA).
Most times I'm attacking the horde anyway but doing so and knowing it'll not stop the mass it feels like an exercise in futility. A bit like this thread.
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well Rip I like how your plans get more inventive...Id tell ya what would happen with no way out and not being a big guy myself Id in someone dear to me's words tote an a%^whooping but ya know what sometimes that's what happens, and go next time I'm not goin to let Rip make some hocus pocus BS about comparing a guy being stopmed to death and a game where and any time you and click. QUIT
so what next old lady being robbed, find a hundred dollar bill.? or ya got something else you looked up on Google as a mediocre comparison?
Vudu15
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I find your OP equivalent to the classic question "When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
Even so I'm glad to see you're following the thread. Even if nothing's gonna change the ability for feedback is important.
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(the cop analogy is stupid since you can't call cops on a horde on MA).
feels like an exercise in futility. A bit like this thread.
well knuckle head no one gets stomped to death on AH so why come up with this ludicrous analage
your right it is that's what I was tryin to tell Fugi but its like he has short term memory loss next day he wakes up and goes EGAD! A horde is a foot, to the BBs.
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well Rip I like how your plans get more inventive...Id tell ya what would happen with no way out and not being a big guy myself Id in someone dear to me's words tote an a%^whooping but ya know what sometimes that's what happens, and go next time I'm not goin to let Rip make some hocus pocus BS about comparing a guy being stopmed to death and a game where and any time you and click. QUIT
so what next old lady being robbed, find a hundred dollar bill.? or ya got something else you looked up on Google as a mediocre comparison?
Vudu15
It's really not my problem if you fail to understand analogies and the group dynamics that affect both the actions of the group and the effect it has on the groups 'victims' in the game. If your gameplay goal is to set up such unfair terms of battle that the other party has basically two options: either die or quit, who are you doing a service for again?
What if the other party quits, you end up hordeing empty fields fighting A.I.
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your still here arent you?
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well knuckle head no one gets stomped to death on AH so why come up with this ludicrous analage
your right it is that's what I was tryin to tell Fugi but its like he has short term memory loss next day he wakes up and goes EGAD! A horde is a foot, to the BBs.
Well knuckle head leaving your opposition no fighting chance and telling him to quit is the gameplay equivalent of stomping someone to death. It's painfully clear that you are not capable to even grasp the issue we're discussing.
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I find your OP equivalent to the classic question "When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Asking permission to use that for sig material :aok
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"When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
I'm currently seeking help for that. Grizz and I are hashing out our issues now. Will keep all posted as therapy sessions come to a close.
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I believe that if attrition would come to play it would give immediate incentive for side balancing.
There is a large group of players who refuse to fly anything but the best available models. Currently they can continue to do so despite numbers being 40:15 for example. Perhaps ENY will disable 5% of top planes but nothing that would really affect anything. No matter how many steamrolls, lawndart, rinse repeat there's always a fresh supply of planes as long as country numbers are not stupendously unbalanced.
If the loss of planes in a horde would very quickly punish the group by boosting up ENY seriously on the _said field_ for example, those people would either switch side to the side that has abundance of resources but lack of players or move to adjacent fields that still have resources and balance the horde out since they'd be either targeting a new place or at least forced to travel a bit longer to the target.
IMO it would be an interesting experiment to see how that works out but of course Hitechs main concern is how to keep the majority happy and thus gain as much subscriptions as possible.
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I find your OP equivalent to the classic question "When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
I'm sorry if it seems like I stepped over some kind of line here.
At first it seemed you were building the "premier flight combat game on the internet". Later you looked to be adding "Combat Tour" which feature a more structure war with earned rewards and advancement. Now it seems you have turned more toward other MMO games like WoW and CoD where score is the highlight of the game, where "combat" seems to take a backseat.
Now, there is nothing wrong with this, and I was only asking is this the direction the game is going. Nothing more, nothing less. With that information I can decide what I will do next, what skills I may want to work on, or whether I even want to continue or not. All things change.
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your still here arent you?
Yes because every now and then we find that one "white knuckle" fight that reminds us why we play. "Youngins" like you come and go. Another few months and you'll be playing the "next best thing to hit the internet" and we'll still be here.
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Now, there is nothing wrong with this, and I was only asking is this the direction the game is going.
Fug, no one with any business sense is going to 'paint himself into a corner' by answering that statement.
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Fug, no one with any business sense is going to 'paint himself into a corner' by answering that statement.
I don't think he even expected answers but wanted to voice out.
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Fug, no one with any business sense is going to 'paint himself into a corner' by answering that statement.
I think most of us already has known that answer without him having to say a word. Action does speak louder than words.
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oops
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Now it seems you have turned more toward other MMO games like WoW and CoD where score is the highlight of the game, where "combat" seems to take a backseat.
How so?
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Fugi that last post was for Rip been 3 years playin with different handles on all three countries and I ain't goin anywhere, dont you worry. the next best thing....that is funny you act like I'm some run of the mill 2weeker who has no sense of what happens in here or in the game. (could be wrong but that's what I'm seein) yes I play PS1 PS3 360 other games for the computer but none of them are AH and none of them will in my book compare to what this game brings. I as a even younger cat in the 6th grade discovered this game and began practicing offline whenever I could so I wasn't a goon askin tenbillion questions in game, I leanred the controls by lookin them up. I already knew the a/c having read anything that pertained to history and airpower from that time and before. Now I wasn't anywhere near the knowledge level of some in here but I knew more than the average clown(no pun intended) and I got killed a lot crashed burned and did all things that new guys do. Got my Dad started playing this game, which I think is cool. But my main thing was find one guy who always knew where the fight was and follow him see who he talked to where he went how he moved what he flew where and when he flew it. And I started at the top of the planeset and flew each one fora day till like finding a good pistol, I picked a pair of a/c that felt "right" they handled well had good guns pointed well if you know my meaning. So dont fool yourself into believing I'm some gomer who stumbled into here with no way of telling the ceiling from the floor.
And this Aces High doesn't seem like any fly by night operation so I'm goin to do my job and let the guys in here do theirs, I'm 100% sure that if something with the gameplay affects them it will be changed.
like this conversation if it was a problem it would be fixed maybe its already addressed maybe and its just a maybe...............You need to adapt and overcome. or wallow in your self pity since I guess every day in the game you get swarmed by hundreds of screaming squeakers thirsting fora a kill. IDK glad I dont have to worry about it tell ya what I'm gunna go HO someone witha Hurri1 see if I can win. at worst Ill make em land.
Till next time.
Vudu15
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Fugi that last post was for Rip been 3 years playin with different handles on all three countries and I ain't goin anywhere, dont you worry. the next best thing....that is funny you act like I'm some run of the mill 2weeker who has no sense of what happens in here or in the game.
Compared to a seasoned player who begun his career from FA dial-up times you are a 2-weeker in every shape and form. And don't take this as an attack, I consider myself a noob and I've been playing only 14 years now starting with warbirds and moved to AH when it came out of beta.
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We long time players are supposed to be the smart ones.
If you can't make Lemonade anymore, then it's time to buy depends and relocate to Florida........ :old:
Just remember, after lights out....dentures hurt if they ain't in the glass of water. Old tail gunner told me that while he was talking about gunnery when we were inside a B24 few years back. Nice old guy. All the blue hairs kept him reallll busy because to them he was a real American Hero...... :angel:
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I don't know what people are crying so much about. I was on for over 3 hours last night and there was plenty of hard fighting. Nits had a big horde - 3 sectors of full dar bars, I don't know how many planes - hitting 68, they finally took it after over an hour but it cost them plenty. There was certainly time to fly in high from our CV or other bases, and the guys who did had good killing, even if we couldn't save the base - but if what you're concerned about is COMBAT, the good fight is what counts, right? Then we started running missions against the rooks and had plenty of opposition - a couple got busted up, most were successful, but there was heavy combat all across that island (157, 156, 155, plus several CVs) for hours.
Sure, some nights and some fronts are slow and sometimes hordes get out of hand but for the most part anyone who says they can't find any combat in this game isn't looking, or else they're only willing to fight on very limited terms of their own choosing. But you CAN fight against the numbers. You just have to fight smart and have reasonable expectations. You have one big advantage in that they have lots of goals they need to concentrate on if they're going to take the base, while you only have to concentrate on killing them and staying alive.
However, if what you want is an endless series of 1-1 duels, try the DA and quit moaning that that isn't what you find in the MA.
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Fug, no one with any business sense is going to 'paint himself into a corner' by answering that statement.
I didn't realy expect an answer in words, but in some action or other.
I don't think he even expected answers but wanted to voice out.
This too.
I think most of us already has known that answer without him having to say a word. Action does speak louder than words.
Yes I believe we do have an answer.
Fugi that last post was for Rip been 3 years playin with different handles on all three countries and I ain't goin anywhere, dont you worry. the next best thing....that is funny you act like I'm some run of the mill 2weeker who has no sense of what happens in here or in the game. (could be wrong but that's what I'm seein) yes I play PS1 PS3 360 other games for the computer but none of them are AH and none of them will in my book compare to what this game brings. I as a even younger cat in the 6th grade discovered this game and began practicing offline whenever I could so I wasn't a goon askin tenbillion questions in game, I leanred the controls by lookin them up. I already knew the a/c having read anything that pertained to history and airpower from that time and before. Now I wasn't anywhere near the knowledge level of some in here but I knew more than the average clown(no pun intended) and I got killed a lot crashed burned and did all things that new guys do. Got my Dad started playing this game, which I think is cool. But my main thing was find one guy who always knew where the fight was and follow him see who he talked to where he went how he moved what he flew where and when he flew it. And I started at the top of the planeset and flew each one fora day till like finding a good pistol, I picked a pair of a/c that felt "right" they handled well had good guns pointed well if you know my meaning. So dont fool yourself into believing I'm some gomer who stumbled into here with no way of telling the ceiling from the floor.
And this Aces High doesn't seem like any fly by night operation so I'm goin to do my job and let the guys in here do theirs, I'm 100% sure that if something with the gameplay affects them it will be changed.
like this conversation if it was a problem it would be fixed maybe its already addressed maybe and its just a maybe...............You need to adapt and overcome. or wallow in your self pity since I guess every day in the game you get swarmed by hundreds of screaming squeakers thirsting fora a kill. IDK glad I dont have to worry about it tell ya what I'm gunna go HO someone witha Hurri1 see if I can win. at worst Ill make em land.
Till next time.
Vudu15
I started playing this game back in Tour 21, about the time you were 11. This was after playing Aw for 4 years before that back when you were 7. So ya, your a young pup. As for sticking around, you might, but from my experience very few "teens" and early 20's guy stick around. Mostly because your going to find other things taking up your time and this game will slip to the back burner if it isn't completely forgotten. On top of that is the way the game is played now. This is a very simple dumbed down version of what we use to play. More often than not people get bored and move on to something else. You might be different, and I wish you luck.
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There is alot of anger in this thread.............
Come on fellas...... Let's skate!!!
(http://2010.omfgif.com/gif/091943Dancing%20Peter.gif)
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"Youngins" like you come and go. Another few months and you'll be playing the "next best thing to hit the internet" and we'll still be here.
Damn Fugitive! your still here? lolz welcome to the "been here too long club"
Actually, ive had one foot out the door for five or six years......someday. Someday.......
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Nice Thread1 Enjoy the perspective(s).
<S> :aok
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Like how I posted examples of fighting the horde and you and Rip are focused on time in game.
Yes Iam young wont lie, bunch of y'all been flyin on the internet longer than Ive been alive, so what?
Yes I'm "new" as y'all wanna put sure ain't denying it.
but y'all are still whining like little kids "oh they re hoarding the base I cant win what can I do?"
to me it sounds like you should make a life decision here and go checkers or something.....OH but dont
play with any kids they may go find more checkers and horde the board.
Long story short sir you spam this "I hate the horde" yet have no solution to it except some weird lets penalize the group who works together to take your stuff,
guess you better bail and watch some maprooms with a pistol...or something...idk it just it old time after time seeing this with no changes cept location and offending country.
tell you what ask Hitech for an AWACS and see if he'll give you something akin to Skuzzy's ban stick so you can punish those horde offenders.
Little Kid/2weeker out...
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"When did you stop beating your wife".
HiTech
When I got tired of her and shipped her back...new one on order from Russia now. :bolt:
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Little Kid/2weeker out...
That part was correct. :aok
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How so?
The first thing that came to mind was the latest, biggest release. The B-29.
What's it good for? Absolutely nothing. Sure, it has ords, sure, it's buff.
But what's it really for in terms of gameplay?
Burning mass amounts of time?
Perks? Which are obtained undoubtedly by 'score minded' players, in one way or another?
Strats are almost always too far away and worthless to bother hitting. They don't provide
much anything other than a few extra perks.
Maybe hitting towns and fields? But who wants to spend an hour protecting their perks
in the outer reaches of atmosphere to hit a couple hangars?
Will it generate large, high-altitude fights? More than likely not, considering the time
'wasted' and the common 'protect my perks!' mindset of players.
Just a few thoughts I've had.
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I love the B-29. Its perk price is ridiculously high though.
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I somewhat agree Kazaa. I've had my giggles with it so far in the TA.
Lost all my bomber perkies because it couldn't pull any harder than 2g
at 200mph though, quite sad really.
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Why did you need to pull more then 2G in a bomber for? :D
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Spiral descent from angels 30 to the deck. Pulled a tad too hard once I
had deployed 100% flaps and on my turn to final approach.
Whoops :o
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Oh that sucks. :eek:
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I can understand why they put the B-29 in. The players ASKED for it! I honestly think that it is pretty cool that they put it in because of that, even if I'm not a big fan of the plane.
It'll be cool for scenarios, if we get an expanded Japanese planeset.
You could even do fantasy 'what-ifs' and do an 8th AF B-29 scenario.
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This is a very simple dumbed down version of what we use to play.
Does that mean you used to have to set your radiator flap and prop pitch manually?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic - I'm genuinely interested in the answer.
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Yes vudu your solution to the horde was for me to fly around for 3 hours porking ords along a front. First off porking ords takes away someone fun, not going to do it. I'm no against the "war" I just think that seeing it a game and we are all suppose to have fun at it that the horde might be broken up a bit so I could enjoy 3-4 vs 1 instead of always haveing 10 vs 1.
As to being "dumbed down" no it's not fuel management or other things like that. It's the game play that is dumbed down. Mission were planned out for tactical reasons, not for base counts. Air to air was much more than being a good picker, or the better shot during the HO. Bombers flew at alt and in groups with cover, now they are easy kill counts for most people.... Well 999000 doesn't count, he's abnormal :) but then again he proves another point. How many kills from a bomber are fighters, how many are GV's?
We play in "quake mode" now compared with how we use to play.
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Does that mean you used to have to set your radiator flap and prop pitch manually?
we have prop pitch in the game.
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we have prop pitch in the game.
Having it and being forced to use it like you were in real life is two different things. IIRC it took a P38 somewhere close to 20 seconds to do every necessary setting from cruise to combat. Imagine being bounced and occupied with trying to keep your engines alive for the first 20 seconds. Deadly stuff.
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First off porking ords takes away someone fun, not going to do it.
Doesn't shooting someone down take away their fun?
Doesn't egging their tank take away someone's fun?
Doesn't blowing them out of the sky with AA take aways someone's fun?
Doesn't taking their bases take away someone's fun?
Doesn't taking away their CV take aways someone's fun?
Doesn't strafing the troops someone just dropped take away their fun?
Doesn't bouncing someone who is not paying attention to their SA take away someone's fun?
I think you are one of those people who want to give all the soccer kids a trophy so no ones feelings are hurt. :rolleyes:
If this game is played right, what you do to the enemy should have them screaming, spitting mad, smashing stuff on their desk, and re-upping with dark, bloody vengence in mind.
Fun is for gurls. Feel the "Hate".
:devil,
Wab
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The first thing that came to mind was the latest, biggest release. The B-29.
What's it good for? Absolutely nothing. Sure, it has ords, sure, it's buff.
But what's it really for in terms of gameplay?
I like it. What more do you require? I hate whatever plane you call your favorite. So what.
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Porking ords and fuel is denying someone use of a game item. - thought the game was about combat. You want to bomb a town, you can have all the bombs you want, but you"ll have to get past the fight I'm going to give you getting there.
I'm here to fight, not take away other peoples toys, you?
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I'm here to fight, not take away other peoples toys, you?
denying others the ability to fight is indeed part of the fight.
This thread really is nothing more than a rant depository.
Game has changed, times have changed, the clientele has changed. Some for the better obviously, some not.
Enjoy what one is doing, care not about anyone else. If one is NOT enjoying the game then really, that persons' mindset is the problem, not the game.
Really, what more can be said.
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I'm here to fight taking away other people's toys. In my experience nothing started a brawl in the sandbox faster than breaking the wheels off the Tonka Truck. :devil
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I really enjoy playing Aces High.
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Mission were planned out for tactical reasons, not for base counts.
What were these 'tactical reasons'? I'm genuinely curious.
Air to air was much more than being a good picker, or the better shot during the HO.
So the complaints from 2000 and 2001 on the forum boards about the same things you're on about were... what? Or does one need to go back even further to find these halcyon days of good, honorable nothing but 1v1 white knuckle combat?
Bombers flew at alt and in groups with cover, now they are easy kill counts for most people.... Well 999000 doesn't count, he's abnormal :) but then again he proves another point. How many kills from a bomber are fighters, how many are GV's?
Er... What is the purpose of a 'bomber' but to drop you know... 'bombs'? Killing stuff on the ground is kind of what they're built for.
Wiley.
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Porking ords and fuel is denying someone use of a game item. - thought the game was about combat. You want to bomb a town, you can have all the bombs you want, but you"ll have to get past the fight I'm going to give you getting there.
You can keep all the ords you want if you are willing to put up a fight to protect them and keep them from being bombed.
I'm here to fight, not take away other peoples toys, you?
HiTech coded the ords to be destructable for a reason. It wasn't by accident. It's not a bug.
He intended for people to destroy them. He intended people to take away other people's toys if they are too weak to keep them from being taken.
He intended for people to try and stop them from getting destroyed too. However, his intent was probably for that to be done with an airplane in the arena, not with a whine on a bbs.
:aok,
Wab
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However, his intent was probably for that to be done with an airplane in the arena, not with a whine on a bbs.
:aok,
Wab
:aok
+1 :cheers: mate
The Zonester
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You can keep all the ords you want if you are willing to put up a fight to protect them and keep them from being bombed.
HiTech coded the ords to be destructable for a reason. It wasn't by accident. It's not a bug.
Our Father who art in a virtual construct
HTC be thy name
arenas of fun and the Hispano gun
can cause rook dearth
if you kill seven
give us this day our dear 410
and bleed us not our E-state
as we bleed the E of those 1v1 against us
turn us not into a tip stall
but deliver us from WarBeast's Kill Klub
for thine is the moderator, the source code, and the release date forever.
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Our Father who art in a virtual construct
HTC be thy name
arenas of fun and the Hispano gun
can cause rook dearth
if you kill seven
give us this day our dear 410
and bleed us not our E-state
as we bleed the E of those 1v1 against us
turn us not into a tip stall
but deliver us from WarBeast's Kill Klub
for thine is the moderator, the source code, and the release date forever.
:pray
hahahaha i think i finally have a prayer i can say that i believe in.
all hail Htc..hail!!!!....Hail!...Hail!... even though he pulled my topic last week from the board lol
O great creator of virtual earth and sky please create me a PBY to fly :pray
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Porking ords and fuel is denying someone use of a game item. - thought the game was about combat. You want to bomb a town, you can have all the bombs you want, but you"ll have to get past the fight I'm going to give you getting there.
I'm here to fight, not take away other peoples toys, you?
(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/bull-meter.gif)
Yes, I most certainly am there to "take other people's toys away". Every day.
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You can protect ords? Today it's like trying to stop a V1. One suicide dweeb after another, hordes have plenty of them and can throw them away with easen because that's how the game is played today. Pork everything so no one can fight back, bring 50 guys to one base and totally flatten everything so no one can fight back. Like - said, nobody is interested in fighting any more. It's all about the base count, and we get them the quickest and easiest way we can.
Again, thru my rose colored glasses, you use to take a base because it was at a higher alt and you didn't want the defenders to "drop" in on you when you took the next base, or you took a base because of the GV spawn points, either to help you, or to slow the defenders. Today you take a base because it's the least defended or most out of the way, oh and the new one, because it need a shore line because it's easier to NOE over water than land.
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Oh, Fugi, you're getting ridiculous now (more-so than before). Bases DO get taken because of their strategic value (ie alt and v-spawn locations). Bases ALSO get taken because they're ripe for the picking because "WHY NOT?" If it's sitting there waiting to be atta-
Nevermind. It doesn't need explaining.
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Oh, Fugi, you're getting ridiculous now (more-so than before). Bases DO get taken because of their strategic value (ie alt and v-spawn locations). Bases ALSO get taken because they're ripe for the picking because "WHY NOT?" If it's sitting there waiting to be atta-
Nevermind. It doesn't need explaining.
Or simply to unbalance the enemy. If your side is getting hard pressed, nothing can reset the focus like sending a deep penetration NOE raid to capture a based near the enemy HQ or strat. They go ape. Its like kicking over an ant nest. That is useful for breaking an enemies forward momentum and giving your guys the initiative.
Wab
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The OP is provocative and so the whine is subjegated by its delivery.
In truth this community might want to fight hordes but certainly does not want to pay the price. I have said it many times and will say again the only way to stop excessive horde activity is via "zone or filed limits" set to control the # of players spawned from and airfield at any point in time.
But he price is tooooo high, it limits choice to do when and where you spawn.............. when the community (and not the just the avid participators of this forum) is ready to accept this choice limiting anti horde measure then maybe HTC would consider it applied in some measure that does not hamstring gameplay.
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I'm here to fight taking away other people's toys. In my experience nothing started a brawl in the sandbox faster than breaking the wheels off the Tonka Truck. :devil
Nucks that is sig material to me LOL
So Fugi? what do you do? must be closest to one of the most unproductive (insert country here) members for that team.
you don't hit ords so i guess that means dar and hangers, hell you don't even shoot at towns anymore do you. tell you what there is a game out there called Ace combat, you might look at it.
you could troll in there for hours and do nothing seems to be what you do anyway.
P.S. Rip y'all say I m a kid and you continue with silly stuff like that sir YOU need to grow up. but you wont quite evedent with your ever changing plot to stump my planing process.
Fugi would you please join us in the game that is aces high or will you doom your self to some sort of vendetta to stop "the hordes" and do nothing but spend your life in these BBs with the same BS
and being a complete write off for your own country "if" you even call one home?
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Yes, I most certainly am there to "take other people's toys away". Every day.
So you're one of those guys who travel from base to base porking ords, lawndarting/bailing when confronted and attacking another empty field? lol!
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P.S. Rip y'all say I m a kid and you continue with silly stuff like that sir YOU need to grow up. but you wont quite evedent with your ever changing plot to stump my planing process.
I'm not saying anything it's a fact. Some of us started playing when you still made a mess in your diapers :)
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So you're one of those guys who travel from base to base porking ords, lawndarting/bailing when confronted and attacking another empty field? lol!
I've never said anything about intentionaly lawndarting, tho I have often unintentionally lawndarted. :lol
But yes, I think its perfectly valid to perform a series of resource denial missions to neutralize ord and troops on bases along an enemies axis of advance to disrupt their momentum.
Its part of the strategic mechanism that HT coded that way on purpose.
I answered your question, now answer mine:
Why do you think HT made ord destroyable?
On accident?
Wab
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So you're one of those guys who travel from base to base porking ords, lawndarting/bailing when confronted and attacking another empty field? lol!
Nope.
I can get a small base ords in 1 pass if I'm lucky (operative word: lucky) and move on to the next...most times it takes 2 passes.
I can get a med & large base ords in 2 passes if I'm lucky and 3 if I'm not. I never pork radar unless I have already dropped all the ords first and have ammo left over. Most times I am short on 50 cals (I rarely bring bombs) and if you have ever seen me crash into the last ord or radar it's one of 3 reasons...
1) I have no ammo left.
2) My plane is chewed to shreads.
3) All of the above with a pilot wound.
I must say some of my squaddies are better at dropping ords than I am.
PS...(Opps I just noticed) "Empty field" (??) Now I AM LOLing! :rofl Most (say 80+%) of the fields I drop ords at are the source base of the hoard attempting to take our base. There are SCADS of NME and a full red darbar in most all cases. There are plenty of rides that get the job done, even with a high cap...and plenty of ways to take them by surprise. If someone gets a proxie on me, I can care less. Their bombs are gone for awhile.
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Doesn't shooting someone down take away their fun?
Doesn't egging their tank take away someone's fun?
Doesn't blowing them out of the sky with AA take aways someone's fun?
Doesn't taking their bases take away someone's fun?
Doesn't taking away their CV take aways someone's fun?
Doesn't strafing the troops someone just dropped take away their fun?
Doesn't bouncing someone who is not paying attention to their SA take away someone's fun?
I think you are one of those people who want to give all the soccer kids a trophy so no ones feelings are hurt. :rolleyes:
If this game is played right, what you do to the enemy should have them screaming, spitting mad, smashing stuff on their desk, and re-upping with dark, bloody vengence in mind.
Fun is for gurls. Feel the "Hate".
:devil,
Wab
Wabbit, I'm guessing you never played sports as a kid, but the best analogy I can give you is this. I hope you are familiar with the game of football, since that is the game I'm going to use to compare to this game. Most people that play football want to win. But almost EVERYONE that plays wants to play a fair game. I think if you took a college football team (or even a high school or Pop Warner team) and had them play a 12 game season against a bunch of crippled kids they wouldn't be having much fun. And I doubt they'd be too proud of their undefeated season. If you let them have 15 guys on the field and their opponens could only have 7, I think probably the same thing would happen.
But for some reason all that changes in online gaming, at least for the vast majority of people. I still don't really understand it, after roughly 15 years of playing online games, but it seems to me that about 90% of all people playing online games would leap at the chance to take the field against 7 crippled kids as long as they had at least 14 able bodied athletes helping them out. And they would lift that trophy high at the end of the season, and fill their young nephew's heads with tales of their glory on the gridiron.
I've never gotten anyone to explain it to me to my satisfaction. Could you explain to me why exactly you and folks like you have that attitude?
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Nucks that is sig material to me LOL
So Fugi? what do you do? must be closest to one of the most unproductive (insert country here) members for that team.
you don't hit ords so i guess that means dar and hangers, hell you don't even shoot at towns anymore do you. tell you what there is a game out there called Ace combat, you might look at it.
you could troll in there for hours and do nothing seems to be what you do anyway.
P.S. Rip y'all say I m a kid and you continue with silly stuff like that sir YOU need to grow up. but you wont quite evedent with your ever changing plot to stump my planing process.
Fugi would you please join us in the game that is aces high or will you doom your self to some sort of vendetta to stop "the hordes" and do nothing but spend your life in these BBs with the same BS
and being a complete write off for your own country "if" you even call one home?
I'm guessing he probably calls the U.S. home. This is equal parts sad and pathetic...
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Nucks that is sig material to me LOL
So Fugi? what do you do? must be closest to one of the most unproductive (insert country here) members for that team.
you don't hit ords so i guess that means dar and hangers, hell you don't even shoot at towns anymore do you. tell you what there is a game out there called Ace combat, you might look at it.
you could troll in there for hours and do nothing seems to be what you do anyway.
P.S. Rip y'all say I m a kid and you continue with silly stuff like that sir YOU need to grow up. but you wont quite evedent with your ever changing plot to stump my planing process.
Fugi would you please join us in the game that is aces high or will you doom your self to some sort of vendetta to stop "the hordes" and do nothing but spend your life in these BBs with the same BS
and being a complete write off for your own country "if" you even call one home?
What do I do? I join fights. Sometimes that means I'm in a buff dropping bombs, or in a goon dropping troops. Sometimes I'm in a GV....mostly as a target to draw fire so other can kill :D but more often than not I'm flying one fighter or another capping a base. We all know score doesn't mean a thing, but take a look at mine. I do a bit of everything, and I do ok at it, I'm not stellar or anything, but I'm no rookie.
Bottom line here is I asked questions, and have my answers. I miss the old days when skill and competition meant something. Todays game has changed and my only option is to change with it.
Thanks for the comments....at least those that were on topic and not pure BS (you know who you are :devil ), I have some new skills to learn.
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Wabbit, I'm guessing you never played sports as a kid, but the best analogy I can give you is this. I hope you are familiar with the game of football, since that is the game I'm going to use to compare to this game. Most people that play football want to win. But almost EVERYONE that plays wants to play a fair game. I think if you took a college football team (or even a high school or Pop Warner team) and had them play a 12 game season against a bunch of crippled kids they wouldn't be having much fun.
Urchin,
I'm sorry you think of yourself as a crippled kid, but I think the game is perfectly fair. Each side starts out with the same planeset (allowing for ENY), same ord, same strat. If a side is getting beat down, they probably deserve it for being weak. They probably didn't organize, they are probably not working together. Or, it might just be their unlucky turn in the barrel. Whaaa. Harden the F* up.
You can either get whiney, or you can get even.
:cool:,
Wab
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Urchin,
I'm sorry you think of yourself as a crippled kid, but I think the game is perfectly fair. Each side starts out with the same planeset (allowing for ENY), same ord, same strat. If a side is getting beat down, they probably deserve it for being weak. They probably didn't organize, they are probably not working together. Or, it might just be their unlucky turn in the barrel. Whaaa. Harden the F* up.
You can either get whiney, or you can get even.
:cool:,
Wab
Never did Wab. I'm just looking for an honest answer to the psychology of it, thats all. It seems like a fairly straightforward question to me.
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What do I do? I join fights. Sometimes that means I'm in a buff dropping bombs, or in a goon dropping troops. Sometimes I'm in a GV....mostly as a target to draw fire so other can kill :D but more often than not I'm flying one fighter or another capping a base. We all know score doesn't mean a thing, but take a look at mine. I do a bit of everything, and I do ok at it, I'm not stellar or anything, but I'm no rookie.
+1
Came for this. :aok
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Never did Wab. I'm just looking for an honest answer to the psychology of it, thats all. It seems like a fairly straightforward question to me.
Urchin,
Your question is fundamentally invalid.
You imply HT has coded it so that one side is permanently "crippled" and can't defend themselves. Well, except for the corner country on Mindanao, that’s not true, and at least every team has to take their turn there.
They had exactly as much chance at being the beator, as the beatee. If they are finding themselves being the beatee, they probably screwed up. Teams that screw up, should be beat down. That’s the natural order of things.
Most times I’ve seen a horde levelling a field, the defenders failed to react to a dar bar warning; failed to prepare for the assault; failed to get spawners upping to defend and failed to organize a relief flight to start out from a nearby field to arrive with alt. Failed to keep track of that CV approaching the coast. Failed to get Lanc in route to take it out. Failed to extend a high screen of fighters to handle the incoming buffs. Failed to organize and coordinate a defence. Fail. Fail. Fail. Should failure be rewarded? No. It should be punished.
Gaining local numerical superiority is a fundamental military strategy. “Get there first with the most!” I don’t know what to tell you if you can’t grasp that. Of course the corollary to that is: meet them there with more and at higher alt. If you fail to get it together, prepare to get it pounded.
It’s a hard world.
There will always be times when you are out-numbered.
There will always be times when the enemy has more alt or E.
There will always be times when you are low on ammo or gas.
There will always be times when you get bounced when you weren’t looking.
<Shrug> Deal with it.
Wab
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Most times I’ve seen a horde levelling a field, the defenders failed to react to a dar bar warning; failed to prepare for the assault; failed to get spawners upping to defend and failed to organize a relief flight to start out from a nearby field to arrive with alt. Failed to keep track of that CV approaching the coast. Failed to get Lanc in route to take it out. Failed to extend a high screen of fighters to handle the incoming buffs. Failed to organize and coordinate a defence. Fail. Fail. Fail. Should failure be rewarded? No. It should be punished.
*Waiting for someone to go "But Wab, what about NOE?"*
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.
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Porking ords and fuel is denying someone use of a game item. - thought the game was about combat. You want to bomb a town, you can have all the bombs you want, but you"ll have to get past the fight I'm going to give you getting there.
I'm here to fight, not take away other peoples toys, you?
What do I do? I join fights. Sometimes that means I'm in a buff dropping bombs, or in a goon dropping troops. Sometimes I'm in a GV....mostly as a target to draw fire so other can kill :D but more often than not I'm flying one fighter or another capping a base. We all know score doesn't mean a thing, but take a look at mine. I do a bit of everything, and I do ok at it, I'm not stellar or anything, but I'm no rookie.
Bottom line here is I asked questions, and have my answers. I miss the old days when skill and competition meant something. Todays game has changed and my only option is to change with it.
Thanks for the comments....at least those that were on topic and not pure BS (you know who you are :devil ), I have some new skills to learn.
im curious, what do u bomb? fighter hangers? bomber hangers?
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*Waiting for someone to go "But Wab, what about NOE?"*
Thats a legitimate point and I was going to raise it, but I was getting bored with the discussion. ;)
The NOE is harder to defend against but I've been on WAY too many failed NOE to listen to someone tell me they can't be defended against.
First, you can't take a huge horde on a NOE and pull it off. With the numbers you can take, its certainly not impossible to thwart by a watchful enemy. They have time to launch defenders if they don't have their head up their tailpipe. When one of the attackers get damaged, runs low on ammo, get shot downs, they are out of the fight. They'll never get back to the field in time. The defenders can keep launching new planes everytime they get killed or bingo ammo. The attacker has to come back from a sector or more. The defender launches again at the point of battle. 3 defenders can easily give 6 attackers a run for their money.
And of course the whiners forget about all the times they find us fat with fuel and ord on the deck on the way to a target. Those don't end to well for us. :O They only remember the times when we pull it off and make them mad.
:rofl,
Wab
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I'm guessing he probably calls the U.S. home. This is equal parts sad and pathetic...
Well sir I'm referring to the in game's countires not RL....curious why this would have anything to do with the discussion at hand
and why calling the U.S. "home" which I do would be "sad and pathetic" If you would care to elaborate on that for me?
Myself I dint really care where some one comes from, we all play this game together.
Wabbit, I'm guessing you never played sports as a kid, but the best analogy I can give you is this. I hope you are familiar with the game of football, since that is the game I'm going to use to compare to this game. Most people that play football want to win. But almost EVERYONE that plays wants to play a fair game. I think if you took a college football team (or even a high school or Pop Warner team) and had them play a 12 game season against a bunch of crippled kids they wouldn't be having much fun. And I doubt they'd be too proud of their undefeated season. If you let them have 15 guys on the field and their opponents could only have 7, I think probably the same thing would happen.
But for some reason all that changes in online gaming, at least for the vast majority of people. I still don't really understand it, after roughly 15 years of playing online games, but it seems to me that about 90% of all people playing online games would leap at the chance to take the field against 7 crippled kids as long as they had at least 14 able bodied athletes helping them out. And they would lift that trophy high at the end of the season, and fill their young nephew's heads with tales of their glory on the gridiron.
I've never gotten anyone to explain it to me to my satisfaction. Could you explain to me why exactly you and folks like you have that attitude?
yall have some of the worst analogies for comparing things to this game, sounds like the game is taking this almost political correctness of the world around it the "oh everyone is equal and everyone can win". well sorry to dash your dreams Urchin but better get your wheelchair off the AF if I'm around might have to strafe you. This is a flight "combat simulator" someone is goin to "lose" Its not supposed to be fair on that note "fair" fora combat sim is relative. guess where goin to fly around now everyone shooting paintrounds and no ones dies. I'm gunna tell ya what though some of y'all have about the most skewed view of this game IMO. In the end sir you cant compare fighting with better odds in your favor to beating crippled kids on a football field, just plain and simple.
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The sad part was you thinking that some chess piece "country" deserves any sort of loyalty at all.
As far as the football analogy goes it is perfectly valid. But sinceyou personally wouldn't find any satisfaction playing some crippled kids in football would it make it better for you if I changed it? No criplleson the field just 22 able bodied men. 17 on one team and 5 on the other. Surely you would find glory in leading your 16 teammates to victory in that game yes?
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Gents you may be talking across each other. One side is talking local superiority. No problem each side has the choice of where to fly. VS country number/superiority as Urchin is speaking of. Not fair or fun because they have no choice or method to change it.
HiTech
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....... VS country number/superiority as Urchin is speaking of. Not fair or fun because they have no choice or method to change it.
HiTech
:aok Exactly.
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Gents you may be talking across each other. One side is talking local superiority. No problem each side has the choice of where to fly. VS country number/superiority as Urchin is speaking of. Not fair or fun because they have no choice or method to change it.
HiTech
Hmmmm. Possibly.
I reread his original post and couldn't find anything that pointed to meaning countrywide numerical imbalance. I assume he was talking about the numerical disadvantage at the point of a horde attack (the topic of this thread).
If he was talking about a general country imbalance, then I have some sympathy with his point of view. I almost always switch sides if I see there is a systemic imbalance.
If so, he very poorly communicated that.
Wab
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im curious, what do u bomb? fighter hangers? bomber hangers?
towns, you get more points that way :neener:
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:aok
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towns, you get more points that way :neener:
But now you're taking blue and red flags away! And as a result you could be an accomplice in taking a whole BASE away! That's taking the ords, the radar, the fuel, and all the hangars all at once! :eek:
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:aok Exactly.
I remember playing CoD online and they had as setting that would automatically change you to the side with the lowest numbers. Always sucked to be sent to the German side. No BAR :cry
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Name one maneuver that might work as 10 guys are on you?
The Auger?
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The Auger?
The Not-get-in-that-position-in-the-first-place. When I get 10 guys behind me I accept that I'm going to die. I just try to waste as much of their ammo as I can before I go.
EDIT: That's if I'm not in a running plane and already at 300+mph with no altitude disadvantage and at the limit of their effective gun range. Disengage and wait for more favorable odds.
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If AH was truly anonymous there wouldn't be any reason not to change countries. In fact in the beginning I tried to stay on the smallest side just for that reason. The problem arises when you start to have friends online, join squads etc. Then it starts to suck to end up fighting a friend after a side switch.
I once ended up against my old squad 7 to 2 and I downed 3 of them before escaping. Needless to say some took it with a laugh, some got upset, some very upset.
To put it bluntly, it was not fun and made me regret switching sides. Same kind of problem is with arena caps, most often than not some member of the squad gets locked out from the arena the rest are already in and typically has to quit for the night. No point flying 30 person arena with all the friends just behind an invisible wall.
The problem of the game is that it includes social elements. Both social and anti-social.
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The Not-get-in-that-position-in-the-first-place. When I get 10 guys behind me I accept that I'm going to die. I just try to waste as much of their ammo as I can before I go.
EDIT: That's if I'm not in a running plane and already at 300+mph with no altitude disadvantage and at the limit of their effective gun range. Disengage and wait for more favorable odds.
Heh so your 'move' is to not go there and let the horde accomplish their target? Is that what you call fun?
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MrRipley(H)
What's the difference between..
- a horde using organization & teamwork on a strategic level creating an overwhelming local superiority to accomplish their goal, to the detriment of their outnumbered opponents
- and a squad having no scruple in using (historical) organisation & teamwork against a single, lower opponent (=4 diving on him, 2 circling overhead to prevent any escape)?
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Heh so your 'move' is to not go there and let the horde accomplish their target? Is that what you call fun?
The answer was to Fugi asking what to do if 10 planes are on you. By "on you" I assume he means on your six with equal E and shooting at you. I never said not to fight the horde, I said don't open yourself up to get ganged by the horde.
I have a blast fighting hordes, I also die a lot by them. But I accept every death as my fault and 100% fair.
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It's the same damn thread over and over again, year after year. :rolleyes:
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Wow this thread has really drug itself out this far. Let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?
This game is very much like a sandbox. People in game have the freedom to do whatever it is they like: whether it be gang bang, base capture, furball, pick 'n ho, or run 'n hide. Doesn't really matter because HTC modeled the arenas so that the players decide what to do. In essence, this is what makes this game unique. Players choose to play the game their way, and thus, having an impact on others in game.
There is absolutely no valid argument that suggests any of this is HTC's fault. HTC can't control how people play the game, unless they completely change the game dynamics. I'm sure that is not what HTC wants to do anyways.
So my whole point to this thread is this: if you don't want to get ganged, then do something about it! If you don't want to get picked, do something about it! If you don't want your bases getting captured, do something about it! Stop whining and blaming everything on HTC because it simply isn't going to work. This thread has been nothing more than a bunch of cry babies with dirty diapers, expecting HTC to change them with fresh ones.
Shut up and play the damn game.
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Wow this thread has really drug itself out this far. Let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?
This game is very much like a sandbox. People in game have the freedom to do whatever it is they like: whether it be gang bang, base capture, furball, pick 'n ho, or run 'n hide. Doesn't really matter because HTC modeled the arenas so that the players decide what to do. In essence, this is what makes this game unique. Players choose to play the game their way, and thus, having an impact on others in game.
There is absolutely no valid argument that suggests any of this is HTC's fault. HTC can't control how people play the game, unless they completely change the game dynamics. I'm sure that is not what HTC wants to do anyways.
So my whole point to this thread is this: if you don't want to get ganged, then do something about it! If you don't want to get picked, do something about it! If you don't want your bases getting captured, do something about it! Stop whining and blaming everything on HTC because it simply isn't going to work. This thread has been nothing more than a bunch of cry babies with dirty diapers, expecting HTC to change them with fresh ones.
Shut up and play the damn game.
+10 :aok
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blah blah blah blah....... HTC can't control how people play the game, unless they completely change the game dynamics. I'm sure that is not what HTC wants to do anyways.
blah blah blah .....Shut up and play the damn game.
Let me put something in perspective for you:
Your right HTC cant control how people play and that is not what anyone is advocating, but he can control how many can play on each side which would at least dampen the super hordes.
These super hordes tend to develop when the game allows you to have numbers that differ per side by as much as 20, 30, 40+ players that can freely move throughout the map without any formidable resistance.
ENY just isn't enough to slow it down since the sheer numbers overcome any handicap that ENY was supposed to impose.
Carry on and you have a nice day shipmate.
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Restricting the number of people who can play on each side is not necessarily going to dampen the super hordes. Numbers don't have much of any relation to the numbers or locations of super hordes. These so called super hordes are created when people decide to wing up together and work as a team. You could have a super horde of 20 people flying together, when in essence, they are flying for an outnumbered country of 120 players, whereas the opposing countries each have 160 players.
If you are suggesting that HTC should decide who should fly and how many, that is a mistake. It's easy for you to say because you are only in a squad of two. But look at some of the larger squads for example. Suppose the boys from JG11 decide to fly on their squad night, and there are 10 of them online. Since they fly only Knights, their country has high numbers. If you wish that HTC controls how many can fly at one time, then half of JG11 probably won't get airborne because of this restriction. Is that fair to JG11? What would you have them do then? Should they switch sides so that all can fly together? Should they just log off and let those who can fly, fly? Should they switch to another arena where they can't even find a fight?
Is that really a fun thing for people to put up with? No. HTC must try to find a happy balance somewhere in the mix. The current system is fine as it is, even if it seems like it does nothing. Super hordes will exist either way, whether it is on the low numbers country, or the high. So restricting the number of people who can fly at one time is not helping anything but pissing off the community.
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nothing more than a bunch of cry babies with dirty diapers, expecting HTC to change them with fresh ones.
Shut up and play the damn game.
Digging that hole
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Wow this thread has really drug itself out this far. Let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?
This game is very much like a sandbox. People in game have the freedom to do whatever it is they like: whether it be gang bang, base capture, furball, pick 'n ho, or run 'n hide. Doesn't really matter because HTC modeled the arenas so that the players decide what to do. In essence, this is what makes this game unique. Players choose to play the game their way, and thus, having an impact on others in game.
There is absolutely no valid argument that suggests any of this is HTC's fault. HTC can't control how people play the game, unless they completely change the game dynamics. I'm sure that is not what HTC wants to do anyways.
So my whole point to this thread is this: if you don't want to get ganged, then do something about it! If you don't want to get picked, do something about it! If you don't want your bases getting captured, do something about it! Stop whining and blaming everything on HTC because it simply isn't going to work. This thread has been nothing more than a bunch of cry babies with dirty diapers, expecting HTC to change them with fresh ones.
Shut up and play the damn game.
There you go making sense again :lol
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Hordes: why they exist?
I don't believe that they exist because hoards players exist.
I think that bishop filed has more better commanders and soldiers then nights and rooks. :rock
Better commanders and soldiers not means better pilot necessary.
More better ect. means that, in mean, we can build up more missions for each week.
So nights and rooks will take it always into the backdoor :rofl
until they don't produce more commanders and soldier.
That's all.
:salute
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Hordes: why they exist?
I don't believe that they exist because hoards players exist.
I think that bishop filed has more better commanders and soldiers then nights and rooks. :rock
Better commanders and soldiers not means better pilot necessary.
More better ect. means that, in mean, we can build up more missions for each week.
So nights and rooks will take it always into the backdoor :rofl
until they don't produce more commanders and soldier.
That's all.
:salute
Rofl commanders and soldiers.. bish has milkrunners who only fight when there's no opposition. That's the whole problem.
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Restricting the number of people who can play on each side is not necessarily going to dampen the super hordes. Numbers don't have much of any relation to the numbers or locations of super hordes. These so called super hordes are created when people decide to wing up together and work as a team. You could have a super horde of 20 people flying together, when in essence, they are flying for an outnumbered country of 120 players, whereas the opposing countries each have 160 players.
If you are suggesting that HTC should decide who should fly and how many, that is a mistake. It's easy for you to say because you are only in a squad of two. But look at some of the larger squads for example. Suppose the boys from JG11 decide to fly on their squad night, and there are 10 of them online. Since they fly only Knights, their country has high numbers. If you wish that HTC controls how many can fly at one time, then half of JG11 probably won't get airborne because of this restriction. Is that fair to JG11? What would you have them do then? Should they switch sides so that all can fly together? Should they just log off and let those who can fly, fly? Should they switch to another arena where they can't even find a fight?
Is that really a fun thing for people to put up with? No. HTC must try to find a happy balance somewhere in the mix. The current system is fine as it is, even if it seems like it does nothing. Super hordes will exist either way, whether it is on the low numbers country, or the high. So restricting the number of people who can fly at one time is not helping anything but pissing off the community.
Gibberish. You are not comprehending the idea of this conversation rather your ranting on with your blinders on. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I understand what you are trying to say, however your not putting any thought into what is being discussed.
There is going to be hording, even if all three sides are equal in numbers.
Currently as it stands now any 1 side can have as many as 40+ on that side with little or no effect to prevent it AND very little consequence to conducting said horde. (meaning, there will be the usual horde + the added 40 pilots which is at times can be a horde in and among themselves).
So yes by limiting sides you would in effect dampen these super hordes since they cant carry the 40+ over the other sides.
I am not talking about local hordes, like in a mission. This is about side balancing.
How to get players that would like to fly at the same time or same side when there is a side limit? That might be a problem for some very large squads, some have multiple wings some don't(unwritten rule), if your loyal to a chess piece, that too might be a problem for you.
But to simply not want to equal out the field on all three sides because its better to create a super horde to hide in is not healthy for the game and rather old.
I am not here to convince you of anything, but this might have already passed over your head.
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It's the same damn thread over and over again, year after year. :rolleyes:
by the same people.
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The other big thread is about the weather :rofl
:salute
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But to simply not want to equal out the field on all three sides because its better to create a super horde to hide in is not healthy for the game and rather old.
One would think after all these years of complaining, that there are no good fights anymore because everyone is hiding in hoards. That no one tries to understand why 'Hoard Hunting" has not become an Aces High trophy sport. Why do only a "few" find the hoards to be the weak prey they are while so many avoid them?
Most of todays maps are too big to win the war so we doodle around for weeks running bases and hiding from each other in the ack. The only viable "Force" to compete against "is" each countries "HOARD". But, the hoards avoid each other religiously while those aformentioned "few" harvest them if they are online. The rest of us in each country tag along with the biggest conga line on the map to get risk free pickings. We all share in this "sin"........
POTW spends an inordinat amount of time hunting the bish borg hoard. But, we are only at most 12 guys at a time chasing up to 30 borglings. Sometimes we bust their base sneaks. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we are busy taking their feilds or the rooks feilds or hunting the rooks hoard or defending a feild...etc...etc...
Our squad made a decision a few years back. The only viable force in the arena is the hoard. If we want to fight we hunt hoards. If we want to pick a fight we attack one of their bases untill their hoard shows up or the base is ours. All in All we get to fight alot. With this logic if all you want to do is logon and fight alot....well we are very happy with the game.
Other wise, this same post in various permutations over many years has been presented to Hitech in the hopes he will agree to your reasoning and forcabely dictate limitations to the unwashed boorish majority mass of paying customers to make your sensabilites happy against their will.
Lordy sounds like a mini Wisconsin.....
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I am not talking about local hordes, like in a mission. This is about side balancing.
I've read all of your responding posts thoroughly. I understand what you are trying to say. However, I still stand by my words.
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Horde hunting IS fun and I partake in it as well.
But there is a point at which too many on one side can and does tip too far and it no longer is enjoyable for anyone. :aok
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But to simply not want to equal out the field on all three sides because its better to create a super horde to hide in is not healthy for the game and rather old.
One would think after all these years of complaining, that there are no good fights anymore because everyone is hiding in hoards. That no one tries to understand why 'Hoard Hunting" has not become an Aces High trophy sport. Why do only a "few" find the hoards to be the weak prey they are while so many avoid them?
Most of todays maps are too big to win the war so we doodle around for weeks running bases and hiding from each other in the ack. The only viable "Force" to compete against "is" each countries "HOARD". But, the hoards avoid each other religiously while those aformentioned "few" harvest them if they are online. The rest of us in each country tag along with the biggest conga line on the map to get risk free pickings. We all share in this "sin"........
POTW spends an inordinat amount of time hunting the bish borg hoard. But, we are only at most 12 guys at a time chasing up to 30 borglings. Sometimes we bust their base sneaks. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we are busy taking their feilds or the rooks feilds or hunting the rooks hoard or defending a feild...etc...etc...
Our squad made a decision a few years back. The only viable force in the arena is the hoard. If we want to fight we hunt hoards. If we want to pick a fight we attack one of their bases untill their hoard shows up or the base is ours. All in All we get to fight alot. With this logic if all you want to do is logon and fight alot....well we are very happy with the game.
Other wise, this same post in various permutations over many years has been presented to Hitech in the hopes he will agree to your reasoning and forcabely dictate limitations to the unwashed boorish majority mass of paying customers to make your sensabilites happy against their will.
Lordy sounds like a mini Wisconsin.....
This post doesn't clearly detail how all roads lead to hording.
Jumping to (my) conclusion: hording will continue not for the reasons you imply, but so long as players feel the need to fly with numbers to compensate for their lack of ... skill. It's a dirty word but the thing it refers to is real, above and beyond any smack talk connotation.
A couple of things get lost in these discussions, incl:
1) saying you can just find another fight if you see a horde: totally unrealistic. The consequence of that is an arena where everyone runs out of sight unless they have numbers. It just encourages more hordes and discourages simple small numbers fights "like the good ol days". But (my personal beef with it) mostly it implies the horde shouldn't have any initiative to realize it's a horde and that it's basically the other outnumbered guys' fault if there's no actual combat going on.
2) Air combat with our WWII warbirds isn't just random flying about like brownian motion with the occasional gun solution or (more common) everyone flying around pretty randomly till everyone (cause everyone's doing the same random aimless things) spots an opportunity and rushes in together to claim that single kill trophy. That's not really air combat, that's just a swarm diluting the actual tactical substance of the encounter.
What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting. They don't have to be constantly be flying like KOTH winning cream of the crop; don't bother with that straw man. But if they did have those minimum skills, the large majority of players could team up in much smaller groups and you'd get much better air combat quality. Inevitably there'd be a fair chunk of players that'd still like to one-up the enemy numbers-wise, but at least the fights they'd get in would look like real combat instead of random elements shaken in a can.. where they act like right now: totally timid flying with nothing near any commitment or engagement, and only actually doing something when the situation's at the other extreme - where their target's 100% vulnerable and incapable of fighting back, at which point they're literally falling over themselves trying to land hits.
TLDR you can't have dogfighting air combat from untrained players
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What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting.
Agreed, but with the surge of the "plug and play" gamers, unless you make the basics of dogfighting mandatory before approaching the MAs, most will never take the time to learn.
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This post doesn't clearly detail how all roads lead to hording.
Jumping to (my) conclusion: hording will continue not for the reasons you imply, but so long as players feel the need to fly with numbers to compensate for their lack of ... skill. It's a dirty word but the thing it refers to is real, above and beyond any smack talk connotation.
A couple of things get lost in these discussions, incl:
1) saying you can just find another fight if you see a horde: totally unrealistic. The consequence of that is an arena where everyone runs out of sight unless they have numbers. It just encourages more hordes and discourages simple small numbers fights "like the good ol days". But (my personal beef with it) mostly it implies the horde shouldn't have any initiative to realize it's a horde and that it's basically the other outnumbered guys' fault if there's no actual combat going on.
2) Air combat with our WWII warbirds isn't just random flying about like brownian motion with the occasional gun solution or (more common) everyone flying around pretty randomly till everyone (cause everyone's doing the same random aimless things) spots an opportunity and rushes in together to claim that single kill trophy. That's not really air combat, that's just a swarm diluting the actual tactical substance of the encounter.
What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting. They don't have to be constantly be flying like KOTH winning cream of the crop; don't bother with that straw man. But if they did have those minimum skills, the large majority of players could team up in much smaller groups and you'd get much better air combat quality. Inevitably there'd be a fair chunk of players that'd still like to one-up the enemy numbers-wise, but at least the fights they'd get in would look like real combat instead of random elements shaken in a can.. where they act like right now: totally timid flying with nothing near any commitment or engagement, and only actually doing something when the situation's at the other extreme - where their target's 100% vulnerable and incapable of fighting back, at which point they're literally falling over themselves trying to land hits.
TLDR you can't have dogfighting air combat from untrained players
And what perpetuates this is as the new players join the game they of course join the hordes for protection and thus only LEARN horde tactics.
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I don't need to detail the road to hoarding. You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes. This is how you have always described the unwashed masses in Aces High. What we have is what we have. Make lemonade with it or buy depends and chase blue haired ladies in a retirement home.
Whatever the unwashed masses want to do is thier $14.95. What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.
These posts end up being the same. An infered supplication for the future of the game to Hitech. Via long, scholorly, and convuluted dialouge that Hitech step in and force the ignorant unwashed masses to play this game the correct way. How, by externaly forcing conduct norms upon them because you are somehow better able to see the truth of these arcane matters since gee golly....isn't it obvious.... you are capable of articulating it with such clairity over the herd of intellectual bovinae you dispise in the game so much.
What a novel concept Hitech has. All customers are equal because everyones $14.95 is exactly the same. Allow the customer to seek his own level of fun within a basic framework of common simple personal conduct rules.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Seems to work very well for us bovinae where ever it's practiced.
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....... What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.
...............
You could not be more off the mark with that statement as far as I am concerned.
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I don't need to detail the road to hoarding. You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes.
Mischaracterization and I have to say I don't know what your problem is. For a while now almost all your posts read like someone peed in your flakes. Anything I say that dares touch on the plain down to earth fact (or why is there a trainer corps? An Official Trainer Corps) that most players just don't have the basic (and really, basic is already enough to do a crap load) air combat skills they ought to have, will be turned into some elitist rant.
In fact that's snobbish itself, and perpetuates the urban legend that there's something unattainable about quality dogfighting skills.
Lighten up.
I don't need to detail the road to hoarding.
No but then the assertion is unsubstantiated IE not credible
You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes.
:lol What??
This is how you have always described the unwashed masses in Aces High.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
What we have is what we have.
Ok then. Let's shut down the trainers. The AH Wiki. All the supporting material for players to do anything that could change "what we have"
Make lemonade with it or buy depends and chase blue haired ladies in a retirement home. Whatever the unwashed masses want to do is thier $14.95.
:rolleyes: total non sequitur
What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.
Guess again miss cleo, nothing nearly so tyranical. Unless wishing players would have the dogfighting vocabulary to string together some proper air combat sentences, no matter how basic, is malicious somehow
These posts end up being the same. An infered supplication for the future of the game to Hitech.
Fire and brimstone read between the lines of a simple comment on the big picture
Via long, scholorly, and convuluted dialouge
:lol Do you actually read what you write? And I'm not talking about the spelling
that Hitech step in and force the ignorant unwashed masses to play this game the correct way.
Show me where I said that. You can't. Because I never said that. Unless you mean my arguing that players ought to be in touch with the basic building blocks of the game they're playing. IOW trainers and the how-to of air combat.
forcing conduct norms upon them because you are somehow better able to see the truth of these arcane matters
No forcing, only reasoning and that only on this forum and always open to counter arguments, or where did I do anything except fly with my squad in the actual game that the reasoning's concerned with? ...What a delirious accusation.
Nothing arcane about anything in AH, especially not air combat tactics and dynamics...
you are capable of articulating it with such clairity over the herd of intellectual bovinae you dispise in the game so much.
Or how to insult, misquote, and kiss bellybutton in a single sentence
We hold these truths [gargarism]
us bovinae
Nothing but an uninformed and inaccurate petty rant. It's no wonder these threads get locked.
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dp
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Agreed, but with the surge of the "plug and play" gamers, unless you make the basics of dogfighting mandatory before approaching the MAs, most will never take the time to learn.
Like I suggested up-thread, the only way I see to reach out to a majority of the players is to automate a streamlined take on the basics of dogfighting. Use the AI (from Combat Tour, not sure what the name was) to give players a way to simply and quickly practice a variety of air combat situations. E.G. aiming, proper timing of scissors, singling out throttle management in some specific situation (e.g. when you need to hold back the throttle coming down from a minimum speed maneuver while saddled up really close to target, so you don't overshoot), etc, till these basic things become second nature and players aren't paying for their proper execution with almost all of their attention. Attention that ought to be mainly on maintaining SA, etc.
Some of the most basic ones, like gunnery or scissors or keeping formation (basic navigation or combat "formation" like loose deuce basics), are things that AI could make really easy to practice over and over. All these things together, in a format where you just click on your clipboard to start the lesson over, or edit the exact time you want to start the maneuvering/aiming/etc sequence, or adjust the AI difficulty, would really help a lot of players, I think.
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I don't know which is worse, the hoarding and ganging in LW, or the really lame nobody wants to fight AT ALL in MW.
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Like I suggested up-thread, the only way I see to reach out to a majority of the players is to automate a streamlined take on the basics of dogfighting. Use the AI (from Combat Tour, not sure what the name was) to give players a way to simply and quickly practice a variety of air combat situations. E.G. aiming, proper timing of scissors, singling out throttle management in some specific situation (e.g. when you need to hold back the throttle coming down from a minimum speed maneuver while saddled up really close to target, so you don't overshoot), etc, till these basic things become second nature and players aren't paying for their proper execution with almost all of their attention. Attention that ought to be mainly on maintaining SA, etc.
Some of the most basic ones, like gunnery or scissors or keeping formation (basic navigation or combat "formation" like loose deuce basics), are things that AI could make really easy to practice over and over. All these things together, in a format where you just click on your clipboard to start the lesson over, or edit the exact time you want to start the maneuvering/aiming/etc sequence, or adjust the AI difficulty, would really help a lot of players, I think.
This is true. Though I think you will still get a percentage that insist on flying in the security of the horde just from ego alone. Some dont take to loosing here. Others just accept it as a learning tool.
I have to agree with your theory because when I first came here, I loved flying with the horde. ONly way I would be safe was in #s. Just by someone taking the time to show me how to trim your plane during flight has dramaticly improved my gameplay. Once players get somewhat of a decent confidence level within themselves, they are more prone to challenge themselves greater.
If HTC really wants to improve his game, give incentive for people to take chances by rewarding them if they come out victorious while being the underdog in situations. localized perk value or name in lights I would think off the top of my head would be incentive enough to make people fight more on a personal level
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Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/gnpatent/ahss32.jpg)
If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.
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This is true. Though I think you will still get a percentage that insist on flying in the security of the horde just from ego alone.
Yes but the important thing IMO is that they would have those air combat tools in their inventory.
give incentive for people to take chances by rewarding them if they come out victorious while being the underdog in situations. localized perk value
It sure sounds good. There might be negative consequences to this but I can't see em
or name in lights I would think off the top of my head would be incentive enough to make people fight more on a personal level
If you mean rewarding safe landing more, that would also encourage timid flying. Localized perk value and something like the AI training tools I described could already be enough.
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Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/gnpatent/ahss32.jpg)
If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.
I've seen far more Bish hoards than Rook hoards.
Something involving kettles and pots comes to mind...
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I've seen far more Bish hoards than Rook hoards.
Something involving kettles and pots comes to mind...
Heh I was just thinking the same. When someone says horde I automatically think bish for some reason. I mean there are nits too but a horde from them is like wth just happened? :)
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Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/gnpatent/ahss32.jpg)
If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.
So you advocate hordeing when its you on the end. Its "fun" right?
What exactly are you preaching here?
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I don't know what HTC wants.
Certain this post has this effect on my poor mental state:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io5yafljkcI
:salute
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"Heh I was just thinking the same. When someone says horde I automatically think bish for some reason. I mean there are nits too but a horde from them is like wth just happened?"
Because bishops are more able in master and command then rooks or knights.
As i point out before.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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"Heh I was just thinking the same. When someone says horde I automatically think bish for some reason. I mean there are nits too but a horde from them is like wth just happened?"
Because bishops are more able in master and command then rooks or knights.
As i point out before.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Or because bishops are not able to fight on even terms. More likely.
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Or because bishops are not able to fight on even terms. More likely.
Now this is funny. When in the MA have you seen any fight on even terms? Rarely is either side balanced in a specific battle.
Fred
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Loose deuce could not speak about horde. Basically they are an horde group. :D
The true is more simple. Humans have a natural tendencies to form group, That's all.
:salute
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Now this is funny. When in the MA have you seen any fight on even terms? Rarely is either side balanced in a specific battle.
Fred
Most fights on MA happen on even terms, if there is no organization players form up slowly to the scene and the opposition has time to react. With a megahorde the slates are turned immediately and defending is pretty much ruled out, especially when a carpet of bombers disables the field.
Hordes consisting of only fighters are not nearly as bad as the ones combining huge fleets of bombers. Too many fighters to even touch the buffs and buffs close the field in 1 run. Then it's just 1 m3 and a couple of minutes away for capture. Defenders won't make it half way from the next field before it's gone. Not only that, the horde typically lands immediately and moves on so whoever bothered to make the transition ends up flying around the empty field and acks blazing.
Stuff like that just makes you wonder what people are looking for, fun combat or ways to take that chance away from the game.
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Not EVERY buff end as you said.
Why? !!!
:salute
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Or because bishops are not able to fight on even terms. More likely.
That can be said about alot of "lone wolf" types too.
Just look up. :airplane:
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Most fights on MA happen on even terms, if there is no organization players form up slowly to the scene and the opposition has time to react. With a megahorde the slates are turned immediately and defending is pretty much ruled out, especially when a carpet of bombers disables the field.
Hordes consisting of only fighters are not nearly as bad as the ones combining huge fleets of bombers. Too many fighters to even touch the buffs and buffs close the field in 1 run. Then it's just 1 m3 and a couple of minutes away for capture. Defenders won't make it half way from the next field before it's gone. Not only that, the horde typically lands immediately and moves on so whoever bothered to make the transition ends up flying around the empty field and acks blazing.
Stuff like that just makes you wonder what people are looking for, fun combat or ways to take that chance away from the game.
Bull, I don't know where you fly in the MA, but I rarely, if ever, see any fights start on even terms. One side always has a numeric advantage over the other side. That advantage can switch from the offensive to the defensive side, but one side always has an advantage. As for that forming up slowly, it sure seems the norm when I am fighting one player, there are three others trying to pick. Outside of the occasional arranged one on one or by chance two players coming upon each other alone in the same sector, there is no such thing as an even or fair fight in the MA.
Fred
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I didn't have time to read every post but I'd say yes, HT did want that in a way. Otherwise why include the ability to plan missions. Looks to me like they were trying to also include some immersion in that they were mostly in F6F's.
Gameplay hasn't really changed in 15 years. Your perception of it may have. Why keep beating these dead horses?
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Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/gnpatent/ahss32.jpg)
If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.
Yes, ALL sides do this...why Bish players get soooo defensive about this I'll never know :devil It's a game issue, but as I have been told many a time "it is the way the game is played" so it's how we will play. Instead of fighting for air space, or land, or to win the war, we will do all in our power to deny the enemy of everything. Deny them the bombs to blow up our building and GVs (because we can't kill them any way) Deny them the use of CV that we hide (because should they use it a fight might break out).
Check out the wish list, how many thread can you find on wishes that are all about denying something from the game. Denying side switching (spyz!) fuel, ammo perks, limiting aircraft from a field. Why, because its about the only way to slow a horde, deny them the planes/bombs/fuel.
Oh well, it's how the game is played ! :aok
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I've seen far more Bish hoards than Rook hoards.
Something involving kettles and pots comes to mind...
So you advocate hordeing when its you on the end. Its "fun" right?
What exactly are you preaching here?
Hey you two, this guy:
Yes, ALL sides do this...why Bish players get soooo defensive about this I'll never know :devil It's a game issue, but as I have been told many a time "it is the way the game is played" so it's how we will play. Instead of fighting for air space, or land, or to win the war, we will do all in our power to deny the enemy of everything. Deny them the bombs to blow up our building and GVs (because we can't kill them any way) Deny them the use of CV that we hide (because should they use it a fight might break out).
Check out the wish list, how many thread can you find on wishes that are all about denying something from the game. Denying side switching (spyz!) fuel, ammo perks, limiting aircraft from a field. Why, because its about the only way to slow a horde, deny them the planes/bombs/fuel.
Oh well, it's how the game is played ! :aok
got it. Why didn't you?
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Check out the wish list, how many thread can you find on wishes that are all about denying something from the game. Denying side switching (spyz!) fuel, ammo perks, limiting aircraft from a field. Why, because its about the only way to slow a horde, deny them the planes/bombs/fuel.
Oh well, it's how the game is played ! :aok
Are these post similar to denying people the horde?
HiTech
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Are these post similar to denying people the horde?
HiTech
Zing
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Are these post similar to denying people the horde?
HiTech
I was just about to post that. :rofl
He seems to think that it was an accident that you made the ord, fuel, and hangars destroyable. It must be a bug.
If they weren't meant to be destroyed, they wouldn't be destroyable.
The logical conclusion to that thinking is just to make all the fields undestroyable and uncapturable.
Then the MA can then be reduced to stale, one-dimensional, pointless furballing with no context or purpose.
You know, like......well... you know.
:devil,
Wab
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Bull, I don't know where you fly in the MA, but I rarely, if ever, see any fights start on even terms.
I could ask you the same thing because most often than not the sector bars are very close to even if not completely even. People move to counter the attacks if they have time to do it - horde effectively removes that possibility.
By the way referring to Hitechs view of 'denying' the horde, attrition would not deny anything except the next mass wave after another, that way defenders would have a fighting chance despite jilted numbers.
Anyway, hordes aren't luckily that common anymore and the changes that were made which stoped the game ending to vulchfest of two fields increased the fun level a lot.
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By the way referring to Hitechs view of 'denying' the horde, attrition would not deny anything except the next mass wave after another, that way defenders would have a fighting chance despite jilted numbers.
I don't believe I have stated anything about my view of "The horde".
HiTech
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F I N A L L Y
:rofl
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I don't believe I have stated anything about my view of "The horde".
HiTech
Oh, I misunderstood your post "Are these post similar to denying people the horde?" then. I thought you in effect stated that hordes should not be denied any more than those other things.
In fact I'm not even sure personally if that would be a good thing in the end. It sucks on the receiving end but on the other hand stopping them might spoil some gameplay. Restrictions are never fun when you're trying to have fun - but on the other hand simulating the scarcity of resources would in fact be realistic. They didn't collect scrap metals during ww2 by accident :)
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1 possible way to beat them would be to up a hord of your own,try to get a hord of your fellow countrymen to up with u,every time an ene hord ups you get 1 up--bout only way it will end--our while they are hording a base go after their base.of course getting 50 rooks up at once in 1 place will be hard.since rooks are usally out numbered anyway.
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I don't believe I have stated anything about my view of "The horde".
HiTech
Is this a view you would be willing to share at this juncture?
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Why not have a "mission generator" that only allows up to 8 players per mission, and would give bonus perks if the mission were completed, or at least lasted 15-30 minutes in duration (regardless of objective met or not). The mission generator could be coaded to send players to less inhabited parts of enemy territory, thus achieving two things: 1) promoting play in quiet areas and 2) breaking down the over population on single stream fronts.
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Why not have a "mission generator" that only allows up to 8 players per mission, and would give bonus perks if the mission were completed, or at least lasted 15-30 minutes in duration (regardless of objective met or not). The mission generator could be coaded to send players to less inhabited parts of enemy territory, thus achieving two things: 1) promoting play in quiet areas and 2) breaking down the over population on single stream fronts.
That's a cool idea. Or maybe there's only a certain number of said bonus perks to go around for a mission, and the more that join the less there are to go around.
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Why not have a "mission generator" that only allows up to 8 players per mission, and would give bonus perks if the mission were completed, or at least lasted 15-30 minutes in duration (regardless of objective met or not). The mission generator could be coaded to send players to less inhabited parts of enemy territory, thus achieving two things: 1) promoting play in quiet areas and 2) breaking down the over population on single stream fronts.
It works until someone coordinates four of those missions at once, therefore
doing absolutely nothing to fix 'the hoard'.
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I'm still fascinated by how many people would rather change the rules to favor them, than just learn how to win.
vWNTRGRN
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It works until someone coordinates four of those missions at once, therefore
doing absolutely nothing to fix 'the hoard'.
I would hope for a dynamic system mission generator. Something "coaded" to react to the global situation. Dont know if that sort of thing isHTs forte'...player would NOT define the mission. Just accept what the system generated, rewarded by a perk payout.
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I'm still fascinated by how many people would rather change the rules to favor them, than just learn how to win.
vWNTRGRN
I think you need to realize there are different types of "win" for various players.
base take = win
surviving a many vs 1 dog fight = win
good spawn camp = win
killing hq = win
resetting map = win
adrenaline pumping acm based 1v1 dogfight with multiple reversals = win
killing a horde's first goon = win
shooting planes with a 5" = win
dropping bombs on gv's = win
killing vulchers with an ostie = win
suiciding oneself on a radar or ords = win
great wingman tactics to take 2 vs many and kill them all = win
etc. etc.
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CSA General Nathan Bedford Forrest said, Get there First With The most. This is just sound military advise. Any offensive attack always has a build up of men supplies and equipment at a concentrated point to overwhelm the enemy. In short a horde. If you are out numbered start porking ords at all the near by bases of the hording enemy. This will slow or stop the attacks in that area.
I see people complain about the horde of Bishops or who ever is the hording side that day. However I don't see the ords being porked at the base that was just captured and the horde attacks the next base and takes it and so on. This is a simple game, No troops, No Ords, No base Capture. Here is another idea next time you see an alert at a base under attack Go Defend It. All side are the same when a base is attacked. You see the same five or six guys defending a base while the other 50 guys that are on are at 50 other bases doing 50 other things.
These are the same bunch that whine about the hordes taking all their bases from them. But if you say something about why they didn't help you get the same old tired reply "It Is My $14.95. Well that is true enough but if you are one of the guys off doing what ever when your base is overwhelmed by folks that are willing to work as a team ( Like The Real Military) don't whine about it.
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Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?
If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.
I think you may have tuned into that show about :45 minutes into it.
The bish hoard piled on 139 (I think?--the rook base just to 135's due East) and piled on with two full darbars. In a way not usually rook-like, rooks actually upped plenty of gvs to the town and the air guys put on a great defense. I killed the last goon. By the time the bish realized it was a failed take (and their efforts dwindling) rooks, not finding that base a "fight" any more and headed over to 135...about the time you took that screen shot.
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(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/clipboard.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/1.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/2.jpg)
This is a good example of how hording is exasperated since eny IMO is not stringent enough. These "extra" 40 players had no affect from eny and were able to up with 51D's with ords and freely move about the map.
There is no give and take, it appears to promote unbalanced sides, if a side chooses to stick together and fight primarily one side "horde a side", thats all well and good, but it should also mean that it would leave their other side open for attack and thus would spread the fight out on both fronts since they would have to defend that now exposed side. That does not happen since there is plenty to thwart any counter attack made by either side they are up against.
HiTech, this 40 player difference is a huge advantage in an of itself let alone the little impact eny really has, I request that eny be reviewed or adjusted and reconsidered to be more stringent in cases like this or eliminated altogether and having arena caps in place.
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Hey, let be a pilot.
Let dive down on them as we bish did at A1 yesterday and ask your sissy-fellows to defend their field.
Perhaps you are too lazy to defend your field or you look to much at score points.
:salute
p.s.
:neener:
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"and were able to up with 51D's with ords and freely move about the map"
Another :cry about perk system? From a ki84 or nik high alt monkey?
For me, for example, is quite booring to climb to fight rooks and knight who 'come from the stars'.
But i do equally.
We bish attacked 37 and 38 today. No one knight were seriously spotted.
They were probably all busy to show their skills against some new players.
You know my feelings about knights and rooks ... :rofl
HTC I will suggest that a possible solution is to add something as in my new v1 wish but I will not do this time.
I can figure how much your balls could be in a rotating state about hordes or not hordes.
From another point of view eh eh knights and rooks find a lot of resistance when they want to take some bish field more then they develop when we attack their fields.
They are invidious :rofl :rofl :rofl
:salute
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Dads that mission had to have gotten airborne prior to the eny hit.
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He said, "Rotating State"!!!! :rofl :rofl
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The thing about hordes is.... There isn't anyone worth fighting in there anyway.
People always talk about flying to a planes strength, well the horde is the same, making up for a weakness (skill) with a strength (numbers). Let them clap themselves on the back and wtg each other for another epic capture, safe in the knowledge that while 50 of them raced each other for one or two vulches, truly great fights were happening elsewhere.
I agree with this completely. While it does bother me that this goes on more and more over the last year or so, it makes me even more angry that those within the HORDE will then as u said pat themselves on the back and light up 200 trash talkin. My biggest - to AH is having to avoid the BnZ by 10 guys at once...pathetic :aok
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In my experience rooks and knight horde are always driven by so-called skilled pilots.
They are in first place to gang bang poor alone pilots.
Common excuse is: rest of my squad.
Your squad? My balls !
If you skilled tell to rest to stay a part !
:salute
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Your squad? My balls !
:headscratch:
I have no idea where your going but I am getting a good laugh...... :rofl
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:headscratch:
I have no idea where your going but I am getting a good laugh...... :rofl
Apparently he's aproaching the infamous "Rotating state"!!
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I think you need to realize there are different types of "win" for various players.
base take = win
surviving a many vs 1 dog fight = win
good spawn camp = win
killing hq = win
resetting map = win
adrenaline pumping acm based 1v1 dogfight with multiple reversals = win
killing a horde's first goon = win
shooting planes with a 5" = win
dropping bombs on gv's = win
killing vulchers with an ostie = win
suiciding oneself on a radar or ords = win
great wingman tactics to take 2 vs many and kill them all = win
etc. etc.
Ok thanks for proving our point... You want us to play for the win the way you want ignore the way we want to. It's our $15 and I'm tired of you people hating us just cause we don't play how you want. I'm glad we don't. I'd be bored and just leave your squad. If you can't handle our missions then go fight the Knights/Rooks whichever is your 2nd enemy. Should be pretty lonely since no one else in this arena does that...
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Silly me. Why in the world should I be suprized about Nits and Rooks horde whine in here, when we hear so much of it in the MA.
EVERY SIDE HORDES! The only difference I see is that the bish don't whine about it when it's their turn in the barrel.
Then again we do notice (whine about) the all too often rook/nit truce.
Can't recall alot of trash talking on 200 from bish when we are base taking. When it happens it's usually in response. When we are rolling, we don't have the time or inclination to waste the key strokes.
Every month, half my deaths come from defending bases against "hordes". If you guys had less score mongers who were willing to fight against steep odds, perhaps you wouldn't loose so many bases.
Nits put up a great defense the other week at A1 on the Mindano map (and dadsguns was so pleased with himself I believe he wet)
The other night the rooks had ~120 to 80 advantage, and were rolling our flank, and nits were chipping away on the other side. Some bish were lamenting it (on country channel) but most of us understood it's going to happen, and the best you can do in those circumstances is hold as best you can.
Now if only we could get those heavy bomber squads to better coordinate with us on base taking instead seeing how many different bases they can hit on 1 continuous mission... Then I would allow your whine
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HiTech, this 40 player difference is a huge advantage in an of itself let alone the little impact eny really has, I request that eny be reviewed or adjusted and reconsidered to be more stringent in cases like this or eliminated altogether and having arena caps in place.
So now we get punished because people like to fly with us and your country mates got bored and are watching
I suppose if we horded you with P39-D's you sit there are whine about eny still...
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So now we get punished because people like to fly with us and your country mates got bored and are watching
I suppose if we horded you with P39-D's you sit there are whine about eny still...
Punished? No.
If your side had as many as my side and you horded us there would be no discussion, but if your side had 40 more than we did and you brought all 40 with you than yes I would have a problem.
More often than not lately that has been the case, well ok maybe only 37 more..... :lol
Ain't come one, but many tine tanies!(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/pootietang.jpg)
:rofl
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So now we get punished because people like to fly with us and your country mates got bored and are watching
I suppose if we horded you with P39-D's you sit there are whine about eny still...
That's probably the kind of subtlety that's lost in discussions on this topic. The point isn't that you're ultimately winning but that there's no fighting involved in the process.
Why not pick just the right dose, like counter balancing overwhelming numbers with lesser planes like the 39, or diverting your attacks to a number of bases so that each base isn't just nuked without any contest but actually fought over even if you never really risk a total blunder? There's no such precision to the proportions, but the point is to make it more like 30-40% chance of defeat instead of 5-10%.
The problem really is finding the right dose. A furballer/dogfighter analogy: you go to the DA with someone like Bighorn. Would you keep coming for more, or say it's worth your 15$, if every single time he kills you within one or two reverses after merge? Or if he just goes limp and lets you kill him? Or if he always tries to make the fight challenging no matter how long it lasts, even if a few of them end after less than a minute? In which one are you most getting your money's worth? Effectively no one is gonna seriously say the last one is best.
An organized strike force that's dropping and capping bases with each breath is only fair play if the opposition is equally organized. This is a game, not war. Sitting in the tower watching bombs drop and frontlines move across the map like seconds on a clock, flying long escort missions where you and a dozen other escort fighters see at most 1 bogie, that's not what the game was made for. You don't pay pay-per-view to see a string of fights where each one ends not even halfway into round 1. The cut to commercials and color commentary before after and between fights is all filler, and that's what sitting in the tower or having to turn tail because you don't stand a chance of lasting more than 10sec after merge amounts to.
The same way the game isn't about pushing cockpit buttons and minding flashing lights or fiddling with slide rules, but about the actual air combat. What's the reward in steam rolling a map while avoiding any combat or contest from the opposition? A handful of perk points and changing colors on the clipboard, and an opposition that either evacuates your target territory, or logs off.
That said, as soon as I realized this myself, I never tried to lead strategic missions again, because reading the other country's level of organization was way too dodgy. It was basically up to chance whether there'd be overwhelming defense, a good fight, or nobody home. What's for sure is that no one will have a leg to stand on if they're griping about that middle scenario. If the game was only about strategic combat, it wouldn't need physics or pilots. More like RTS or sports team manager games.
You guys have the strategic side down pat and that's fine. But you can't expect not to have a big chunk of the players against you if you remove all tactical gameplay. Tactics are the bread and butter of the game.
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Nice Moot. You might think I wrote that :noid
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I agree with Scott on the channel 200 crap and I'll throw in tactless PMs as well.
Aside from that this is an open ended game with many ways to play.
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You don't pay pay-per-view to see a string of fights where each one ends not even halfway into round 1.
No wonder I'm so disappointed with Pay-per-view. I thought I'd be getting an endless series of one chimp beating another chimp into a bloody tooth-spitting pulp... then an actual fight broke out.
Frankly, I'm bored with this thread. The MA is more or less deregulated. As such, behaviors practiced there will continue until effectively countered. That's my stance and it intersects with bits of other's/your stance.
That's all tired to me.
What's NOT tired is the self-induced chuckle I'm getting out of the idea of some drunken simian miscreant sitting agog in front of his screen, paying to watch an infinite series of bloody and lopsided 2-minute beatdowns, all while drunkenly laughing an idiot's duhuhuhuhuhuhuh and thumbing through a magazine entitled "1001 Nicknames for Women"...
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(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/clipboard.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/1.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/2.jpg)
This is a good example of how hording is exasperated since eny IMO is not stringent enough. These "extra" 40 players had no affect from eny and were able to up with 51D's with ords and freely move about the map.
There is no give and take, it appears to promote unbalanced sides, if a side chooses to stick together and fight primarily one side "horde a side", thats all well and good, but it should also mean that it would leave their other side open for attack and thus would spread the fight out on both fronts since they would have to defend that now exposed side. That does not happen since there is plenty to thwart any counter attack made by either side they are up against.
HiTech, this 40 player difference is a huge advantage in an of itself let alone the little impact eny really has, I request that eny be reviewed or adjusted and reconsidered to be more stringent in cases like this or eliminated altogether and having arena caps in place.
I'm curious to see the map showing where the fighting is happening along with the numbers that are being posted. If the Bishops are fighting two fronts with minimal fighting between the Rook and Knights, then in fact, the Bishops are out numbered. I have seen this a number of time involving all countries. Just looking at the numbers does not always reflect what is actually happening.
Fred
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No wonder I'm so disappointed with Pay-per-view. I thought I'd be getting an endless series of one chimp beating another chimp into a bloody tooth-spitting pulp... then an actual fight broke out.
Frankly, I'm bored with this thread. The MA is more or less deregulated. As such, behaviors practiced there will continue until effectively countered. That's my stance and it intersects with bits of other's/your stance.
That's all tired to me.
What's NOT tired is the self-induced chuckle I'm getting out of the idea of some drunken simian miscreant sitting agog in front of his screen, paying to watch an infinite series of bloody and lopsided 2-minute beatdowns, all while drunkenly laughing an idiot's duhuhuhuhuhuhuh and thumbing through a magazine entitled "1001 Nicknames for Women"...
I mostly agree - furballers can't only sit on their hands (ie furball obliviously) and complain about the strategic guys not playing their way. A few Arado or Moss XVI formations can take care of bombs across their front fields (unless that's changed); though in my experience the extra sector or two the missions then need to fly from is more or less chump change to them. Once enough people are on the bandwagon it doesn't make much difference. They just get to destination at higher altitude.
I'd take a swing at the PPV thing but I can't think of anything witty enough that it wouldn't get some people reading this indignant.
no one is gonna seriously say the last one is best.
"isn't best"
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I'm curious to see the map showing where the fighting is happening along with the numbers that are being posted. If the Bishops are fighting two fronts with minimal fighting between the Rook and Knights, then in fact, the Bishops are out numbered. I have seen this a number of time involving all countries. Just looking at the numbers does not always reflect what is actually happening.
Fred
It was close to a 50/50 at most a 60/40 split on both fronts at times, the rooks were pushing really hard to get a base down there and that fight lasted all day and was finally taken by the rooks, I was bouncing back and forth depending on when the bish horde came in. I am an equal opportunity pilot shooter downer....... ;)
There still is no justification for any 1 side having as much as 40+ players advantage which forces more defense rather offense postures day in and day out.
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That's probably the kind of subtlety that's lost in discussions on this topic. The point isn't that you're ultimately winning but that there's no fighting involved in the process.
Why not pick just the right dose, like counter balancing overwhelming numbers with lesser planes like the 39, or diverting your attacks to a number of bases so that each base isn't just nuked without any contest but actually fought over even if you never really risk a total blunder? There's no such precision to the proportions, but the point is to make it more like 30-40% chance of defeat instead of 5-10%.
The problem really is finding the right dose. A furballer/dogfighter analogy: you go to the DA with someone like Bighorn. Would you keep coming for more, or say it's worth your 15$, if every single time he kills you within one or two reverses after merge? Or if he just goes limp and lets you kill him? Or if he always tries to make the fight challenging no matter how long it lasts, even if a few of them end after less than a minute? In which one are you most getting your money's worth? Effectively no one is gonna seriously say the last one is best.
An organized strike force that's dropping and capping bases with each breath is only fair play if the opposition is equally organized. This is a game, not war. Sitting in the tower watching bombs drop and frontlines move across the map like seconds on a clock, flying long escort missions where you and a dozen other escort fighters see at most 1 bogie, that's not what the game was made for. You don't pay pay-per-view to see a string of fights where each one ends not even halfway into round 1. The cut to commercials and color commentary before after and between fights is all filler, and that's what sitting in the tower or having to turn tail because you don't stand a chance of lasting more than 10sec after merge amounts to.
The same way the game isn't about pushing cockpit buttons and minding flashing lights or fiddling with slide rules, but about the actual air combat. What's the reward in steam rolling a map while avoiding any combat or contest from the opposition? A handful of perk points and changing colors on the clipboard, and an opposition that either evacuates your target territory, or logs off.
That said, as soon as I realized this myself, I never tried to lead strategic missions again, because reading the other country's level of organization was way too dodgy. It was basically up to chance whether there'd be overwhelming defense, a good fight, or nobody home. What's for sure is that no one will have a leg to stand on if they're griping about that middle scenario. If the game was only about strategic combat, it wouldn't need physics or pilots. More like RTS or sports team manager games.
You guys have the strategic side down pat and that's fine. But you can't expect not to have a big chunk of the players against you if you remove all tactical gameplay. Tactics are the bread and butter of the game.
Nice writeup Moot :aok but so few will understand it
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All those reds, low and slow? With their focus on the ground? Looks like 30 kills to me.
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HT hates teh hordes!! :furious
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9810/91877283.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/91877283.jpg/)
FRIGGIN HILARIOUS!!!
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Why not pick just the right dose, like counter balancing overwhelming numbers with lesser planes like the 39, or diverting your attacks to a number of bases so that each base isn't just nuked without any contest but actually fought over even if you never really risk a total blunder? There's no such precision to the proportions, but the point is to make it more like 30-40% chance of defeat instead of 5-10%.
Is this serious? You expect anyone in their right mind to guesstimate the number of enemies who will or will not up to defend, then adjust our plane choice and load-outs accordingly just so the other side feels good about almost not losing a base... The point is to take the base, not drop flowers and valentines to the Rook/Nits.
An organized strike force that's dropping and capping bases with each breath is only fair play if the opposition is equally organized.
Its our fault you can organize a proper defense. Since we don't fight you should be able to bring 5 Spit 16's and have us cleared in no time.
This is a game, not war...You don't pay pay-per-view to see a string of fights where each one ends not even halfway into round 1.
1v1 boxing isn't even close to the same thing as this game. And if you think those boxers treat their fight like you want to treat AH you really are nuts. If Boxer A beats the snot out of Boxer B in 45 seconds in a pay per view fight the commentators don't blame Boxer A because he didn't give people their moneys worth and then proceed to lecture him on how he could have not used his right jab until the 6th round, or unless Boxer B started to hit him to much, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WE DO. The commentators call Boxer B unprepared and unworthy to have fought Boxer A and without questions will say that Boxer B didn't deserve to win the fight.
If the game was only about strategic combat, it wouldn't need physics or pilots.
And if the game was all about tactical gameplay we'd only be allowed to fly one plane, and only 1v1, and only bomb while being shot at.
...you can't expect not to have a big chunk of the players against you if you remove all tactical gameplay...
True, but you don't hear us crying because people are fooling around in TT or furballing and not wanting to roll in the missions. We don't care how you want to play or what you want to do. Wanna come with us, cool nice to see you. Wanna fight all by yourself, we'll give you a WTG when you land kills.
Nice writeup Moot :aok but so few will understand it
It's not that we don't understand it, we think it's crap for him or anyone else to tell us how and under what circumstances we 'should' play.
With great success comes great hatred.
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Ten60 :aok
But just let you know you cant talk to these folks their just as deep seated in thier views as us.
but they cant look over the fence and see what anyone else is talkin about.
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I thought about it, and this really boils down to wishing that folks played the way that "I" wanted them to. There are certain squads that usually bring large numbers in on an attack. Also, there are many of us that like to run missions that essentially do the same, bring numbers to obtain superiority over a target.
< Hijack> Before the split arenas where the only reason some of our squadees were flying in another arena was his choice, I remember the squad chat box being full. As a unit we seemed to get things done, whether it was taking a base, running a fighter sweep, or running missions. After a number of changes, that group just logged in and went their different ways. Pretty soon (in about a year) the squad only consisted of about 3 or 4 die hards, left to carry on the name.
My point: HTC won't force you to play their game a certain way, they only work on ways of making it challenging and balanced. Complaints about large squads, timid squads, NOE missions, etc, come from players (including myself) that the pendulum balance has swung away from. The equalizer has always been the mission planner, which has the ability to swing the pendulum back in your favor. Yet, it is the most ignored part of the game. Sure, there are those that spy on missions. I would say that is the largest contributor to it's non use.
Here again, the action of a few gamers, has defeated hours of coding, and the usefulness of a tool that should be bringing like minded players together to increase their odds of playing the game the way they envisioned it.
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It's OBVIOUS what HiTech wants....
It's high-end Scotch.
Buy him some.
Send him some.
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It's OBVIOUS what HiTech wants....
It's high-end Scotch.
Buy him some.
Send him some.
Don't we already?
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Tune in for ........"As the Social Experiment Continues."
How many years for a PhD? :uhoh :t
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Don't we already?
$14.95 don't buy the kind of Scotch he wants.
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Is this serious? You expect anyone in their right mind to guesstimate the number of enemies who will or will not up to defend, then adjust our plane choice and load-outs accordingly just so the other side feels good about almost not losing a base... The point is to take the base, not drop flowers and valentines to the Rook/Nits.
Its our fault you can organize a proper defense. Since we don't fight you should be able to bring 5 Spit 16's and have us cleared in no time.
1v1 boxing isn't even close to the same thing as this game. And if you think those boxers treat their fight like you want to treat AH you really are nuts. If Boxer A beats the snot out of Boxer B in 45 seconds in a pay per view fight the commentators don't blame Boxer A because he didn't give people their moneys worth and then proceed to lecture him on how he could have not used his right jab until the 6th round, or unless Boxer B started to hit him to much, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WE DO. The commentators call Boxer B unprepared and unworthy to have fought Boxer A and without questions will say that Boxer B didn't deserve to win the fight.
And if the game was all about tactical gameplay we'd only be allowed to fly one plane, and only 1v1, and only bomb while being shot at.
True, but you don't hear us crying because people are fooling around in TT or furballing and not wanting to roll in the missions. We don't care how you want to play or what you want to do. Wanna come with us, cool nice to see you. Wanna fight all by yourself, we'll give you a WTG when you land kills.
It's not that we don't understand it, we think it's crap for him or anyone else to tell us how and under what circumstances we 'should' play.
With great success comes great hatred.
I never argue with M00t, he uses too many big words ;). This is the thing tho: The same way the game isn't about pushing cockpit buttons and minding flashing lights or fiddling with slide rules, but about the actual air combat. What's the reward in steam rolling a map while avoiding any combat or contest from the opposition? A handful of perk points and changing colors on the clipboard, and an opposition that either evacuates your target territory, or logs off.
There are a fair number of people who could care less whether a victory comes from a challenging fight, or from a simple execution of afk/outnumbered/taxiing plane. If they stay here long enough, they start to care about that difference
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It was close to a 50/50 at most a 60/40 split on both fronts at times, the rooks were pushing really hard to get a base down there and that fight lasted all day and was finally taken by the rooks, I was bouncing back and forth depending on when the bish horde came in. I am an equal opportunity pilot shooter downer....... ;)
There still is no justification for any 1 side having as much as 40+ players advantage which forces more defense rather offense postures day in and day out.
Don't know what you mean by 50/50 or 60/40. Are you saying that all fronts were 50/50 or 60/40?
I don't think I have ever seen an equal balance between all countries fighting each other. Two are always, if you want to call it ganging, the third country. All three countries are on the receiving end of this, so I am not making any distinction between countries. I'm just saying based on the numbers you posted, where was the fighting going on? If both Knights and Rooks were fighting the Bishop at that time, with minimal fighting between them, then at that given time, the Bishops were actually at a disadvantage, especially if there is Eny involved.
I'm just saying, the numbers are not reflective of what actually is going on unless the map is posted with it.
My opinion
Fred
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50/50 and 60/40. About equal nits on both fronts, at one point it may have been as much as 60% of nit on bish front each time they came in with a horde at that time.
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I do not see the issue with steamed rolls...... I personally think they are great with butter.
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"lotta hatred"
That right there tells me I'm either talking to a child or someone with some agenda not to be totally honest.
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I never argue with M00t, he uses too many big words ;). This is the thing tho: There are a fair number of people who could care less whether a victory comes from a challenging fight, or from a simple execution of afk/outnumbered/taxiing plane. If they stay here long enough, they start to care about that difference
I think that may be the biggest misconception a lot of you guys that live for 'fair fights' have. I firmly believe there is a good portion of people that don't evolve beyond that, because either it makes them happy or they don't want to make the game like 'work' to move beyond that. They either continue on doing what they do, or they wind up moving on to the next game when they get bored.
Wiley.
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That right there tells me I'm either talking to a child or someone with some agenda not to be totally honest.
Ten was just being a little cocky but I got his point. What's yours?
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Is this serious? You expect anyone in their right mind to guesstimate the number of enemies who will or will not up to defend, then adjust our plane choice and load-outs accordingly just so the other side feels good about almost not losing a base... The point is to take the base, not drop flowers and valentines to the Rook/Nits.
So there's nothing to argue about, you plainly say you don't care if the other side gets zero gameplay out of your missions. Making the other side feel good = strawman
Its our fault you can organize a proper defense.
Doesn't sound like that's what you meant to write. I can't tell what you mean.
Since we don't fight you should be able to bring 5 Spit 16's and have us cleared in no time.
If you have no escort? Sure. Yes "I" have killed plenty of "guys like you". I've done a few tours where I had three figure kill tallies against bombers. You're wrong if you think I'm motivated for this argument because I've got something to prove. It's not about me and not really about you in particular either.
1v1 boxing isn't even close to the same thing as this game.
Prolly no such thing as a perfect analogy. Analogies only emphasize a particular similarity. The boxing analogy only illustrates one thing: victory without peril, base capture without a fight, people sitting in front of their computers effectively as spectators.
And if you think those boxers treat their fight like you want to treat AH you really are nuts.
Doesnt sound like you understand my argument. I don't want you to do anything, I'm only arguing the pros and cons of different scenarios. Your impression that I'm a furballer is mostly ok, and what do furballers do? They kill players, not buildings. As far as I'm privately concerned the you guys are just targets, but like I said this isn't about what I like. The objective is to clear up some misunderstandings on both sides even if I'm probably a little biased towards detailing the tactical side.
If Boxer A beats the snot out of Boxer B in 45 seconds in a pay per view fight the commentators don't blame Boxer A because he didn't give people their moneys worth and then proceed to lecture him on how he could have not used his right jab until the 6th round,
Non sequitur, or how to warp an analogy's meaning
or unless Boxer B started to hit him to much, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WE DO. The commentators call Boxer B unprepared and unworthy to have fought Boxer A and without questions will say that Boxer B didn't deserve to win the fight.
More derailed analogy and back to square one, you're essentially saying the game is all about you, and that you're ok with waging war against unoccupied buildings and conquering empty territory, that getting a fight while racking up the real estate is not an objective. I did say you guys had the strategic side down pat but I guess it's too hard to take a compliment at face value.
And if the game was all about tactical gameplay we'd only be allowed to fly one plane, and only 1v1, and only bomb while being shot at.
Yes obviously. I didn't say strategic had no place in the game, only that you couldn't (not yet anyway) expect to not rub a non negligible chunk of the players the wrong way if you basically deny them any tactical answer to your strategic action. I also said and say that big uncontested missions are boring but that's just some opinionated coloring to my actual arguments
True, but you don't hear us crying because people are fooling around in TT or furballing and not wanting to roll in the missions. We don't care how you want to play or what you want to do. Wanna come with us, cool nice to see you. Wanna fight all by yourself, we'll give you a WTG when you land kills.
I'd appreciate the WTG and I mostly agree with the sentiment but it just hides the misunderstanding at the root of this argument: Players like me don't care about names in lights - it's not the destination but the road that matters to us. We don't care if you win the war or if we beat you. We just want to have a good fight out of it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you ask) we don't have any hierarchy like you guys. So in that respect you're preaching to the choir - we don't want to tell others what to do, even less than you do. That's not true about all "furballers" but there's a good number of us and if you make the argument personal you ought to know that.
"Crying" = strawman
"fooling around" : :lol What... And you're not fooling around in front of your computer?
It's not that we don't understand it,
In fact you don't
we think it's crap for him or anyone else to tell us how and under what circumstances we 'should' play.
Where did I pretend to have such authority? I'm not concerned with crap or how much esteem you have for me, only what makes sense. I'm just reasoning that you would still have your strategic success if you changed the plan a little so that there was some actual air combat involved instead of a colonization swarm. You could allow some tactical resistance while still denying any significant strategic attempts. If you pull the rug from under the feet of an oppfor that's disorganized because e.g. it's nothing but players who don't know each other, you're not gonna get much tactical level resistance and consequently definitely nothing at strat level.
Yes this is basically mostly a tragedy of the commons argument. But youll miss the mark if you ignore mine and others arguments and tunnel vision on the abstract ethics of 'tragedy of the commons'
But like I said if you see nothing wrong with conquering territory with zero resistance, that's fine too. I think you're pooping where you eat, even if only a little, but it's your call.
their just as deep seated in thier views as us.
but they cant look over the fence and see what anyone else is talkin about.
January 2009.
I never argue with M00t, he uses too many big words ;)
Less words = sooner to the point
. This is the thing tho: There are a fair number of people who could care less whether a victory comes from a challenging fight, or from a simple execution of afk/outnumbered/taxiing plane. If they stay here long enough, they start to care about that difference
So you basically have the same pov as me, only you're not quite making it so forcefully. But in my experience if you don't make it clear like that the discussion starts picking up baggage in misunderstandings and soon enough you're spending as much time clearing up misunderstandings as actually arguing the meat of the matter
I think that may be the biggest misconception a lot of you guys that live for 'fair fights' have. I firmly believe there is a good portion of people that don't evolve beyond that, because either it makes them happy or they don't want to make the game like 'work' to move beyond that. They either continue on doing what they do, or they wind up moving on to the next game when they get bored.
Wiley.
I personally don't want a fair fight. I just want a good fight. I can't really argue for an unfair fight though, not if I'm speaking for more than just myself.
Ten was just being a little cocky but I got his point. What's yours?
That he's already missing the point with his first reply.
FYI: this "furballers vs toolsheders" debate's had more episodes than I remember. And I'm not even one of the oldest players here, I only started in 2000. Take this at face value, not as some thinly veiled smack talk: If you've only been here since this last november, you're missing that historical context, regardless how good or bad the points you make. And yes history in the game is almost totally irrespective to someone's credibility. But just FYI on the context here.
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You have no more credibilty, moot, you just have lots more words than most people.
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Lol I warned the guy....now he's gotta decide whether to give up or redirect the argument, and get a bunch of his fairly new friends to all declare M00t wrong
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You have no more credibilty, moot, you just have lots more words than most people.
I don't need or want or pretend to have more credibility. More or less words doesn't matter, everyone's got their quirks and nobody's perfect; I can accommodate that and it's not my problem if others can't reciprocate. The funny thing is that no matter how I'll argue it there'll always be someone like you who wants to throw cabbage. So whether I'm curt or elaborately specific is irrelevant.
Reason is the only thing that matters
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Is this serious? You expect anyone in their right mind to guesstimate the number of enemies who will or will not up to defend, then adjust our plane choice and load-outs accordingly just so the other side feels good about almost not losing a base... The point is to take the base, not drop flowers and valentines to the Rook/Nits.
Its our fault you can organize a proper defense. Since we don't fight you should be able to bring 5 Spit 16's and have us cleared in no time.
1v1 boxing isn't even close to the same thing as this game. And if you think those boxers treat their fight like you want to treat AH you really are nuts. If Boxer A beats the snot out of Boxer B in 45 seconds in a pay per view fight the commentators don't blame Boxer A because he didn't give people their moneys worth and then proceed to lecture him on how he could have not used his right jab until the 6th round, or unless Boxer B started to hit him to much, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WE DO. The commentators call Boxer B unprepared and unworthy to have fought Boxer A and without questions will say that Boxer B didn't deserve to win the fight.
And if the game was all about tactical gameplay we'd only be allowed to fly one plane, and only 1v1, and only bomb while being shot at.
True, but you don't hear us crying because people are fooling around in TT or furballing and not wanting to roll in the missions. We don't care how you want to play or what you want to do. Wanna come with us, cool nice to see you. Wanna fight all by yourself, we'll give you a WTG when you land kills.
It's not that we don't understand it, we think it's crap for him or anyone else to tell us how and under what circumstances we 'should' play.
With great success comes great hatred.
Look at it this way...
To take down ALL the hangers at a small field is 18k
To drop a town to 75% takes 18k
Total to take a small field/town is 36k
A formation of B24's can carry 8 1K bombs each for a Total 24 K, even if you only hit at 50% you still only NEED 3 B24s to take down enough for a small field/town. Add 5 guys in fighters to clean up any defender that get out, and a goon you have 9 people.
With 9 people you have enough ord to take out EVERYTHING you NEED to take the place. A little skill and a good route for the B24's and and defenders won't get up.
So what you NEED is 9-10 guys, what you bring is 40-50. Even with 5 minute warning, you can't get 30-40 guys into a defensive set-up. With the smaller force you might run into 5 or 6 defenders, but if your hitting 4-5 bases (10 x 4-5= 40-50 guys) at once odds are good your still going to capture a few bases.
The difference being that even the defenders could have fun this way, even while YOU PLAY YOUR WAY AND CAPTURE BASES!
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Even with 5 minute warning, you can't get 30-40 guys into a defensive set-up.
So ultimately the problem is with the defenders, not the attackers?
Wab
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I don't need or want or pretend to have more credibility. More or less words doesn't matter, everyone's got their quirks and nobody's perfect; I can accommodate that and it's not my problem if others can't reciprocate. The funny thing is that no matter how I'll argue it there'll always be someone like you who wants to throw cabbage. So whether I'm curt or elaborately specific is irrelevant.
Reason is the only thing that matters
How did I throw cabbages? :huh
I just pointed out a fact that I was not sure you were aware of. Seems you were aware.
Not sure I follow your last statement. Reason is the only thing that matters in life or in this debate?
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That's some lame bait right there.
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bait?
:rolleyes:
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So ultimately the problem is with the defenders, not the attackers?
Wab
No it's all about having fun, from both sides. Getting run over by the horde isn't fun. Having the horde split into a number of attacks giving the defenders a chance to save maybe one of the multiple bases makes it fun for them as well as the attacking force who if they are remotely skilled should grab bases faster than they do now, increasing their fun as well.
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How did I throw cabbages?
Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
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So ultimately the problem is with the defenders, not the attackers?
Wab
I generally enjoy fighting hordes but recently, they've been too 'quick' and too large to even get a chance to fight...
As I stated before in other threads, the drop the FH very quickly and take the base before you can get there from another base.
Put simply...
no fight == no fun
they might as well not exist because no one is going to be able to stop them in time, so they will get ignored.
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No it's all about having fun, from both sides. Getting run over by the horde isn't fun. Having the horde split into a number of attacks giving the defenders a chance to save maybe one of the multiple bases makes it fun for them as well as the attacking force who if they are remotely skilled should grab bases faster than they do now, increasing their fun as well.
Are you saying its physically impossible to launch sufficient aircraft to defend against a horde attack? (Assuming we are not talking about drastically unbalanced team populations.) Not just hard, but impossible?
Wab
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You never did get around to answering me Wab, by the way.
What is so engrossing about a completely lopsided contest that you'd willingly pay to partake in it?
Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?
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I am proud to say I'm glad this thread did not turn into an urinating contest. :rolleyes:
I'm sure THAT is not what HiTech wanted.
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You never did get around to answering me Wab, by the way.
What is so engrossing about a completely lopsided contest that you'd willingly pay to partake in it?
Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?
Appearently no one could decifer what you were talking about. Did you read the posts after yours?
Were you talking about local numerical imbalance at the point of the horde attack? Or where you talking about an entire team that was outnumbered?
Wab
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I don't think I have ever seen an equal balance between all countries fighting each other. Two are always, if you want to call it ganging, the third country. All three countries are on the receiving end of this, so I am not making any distinction between countries. I'm just saying based on the numbers you posted, where was the fighting going on? If both Knights and Rooks were fighting the Bishop at that time, with minimal fighting between them, then at that given time, the Bishops were actually at a disadvantage, especially if there is Eny involved.
I'm just saying, the numbers are not reflective of what actually is going on unless the map is posted with it.
Exactly.
That's why ENY does nothing whatsoever to address side imbalances. It's possible, even common, to have 2-1 odds against you and a 10+ ENY, or 3-1 odds in your favor and the enemy has ENY, depending on how the players are distributed between countries and between fronts.
Hordeing has nothing to do with overall side balance. Even the lowest-numbered country can get a horde of 30-40 guys together if the other countries' players are all fighting each other.
A formation of B24's can carry 8 1K bombs each for a Total 24 K, even if you only hit at 50% you still only NEED 3 B24s to take down enough for a small field/town. Add 5 guys in fighters to clean up any defender that get out, and a goon you have 9 people.
And then one 262 zooms in from another base and kills the goon, and the whole effort is wasted. Or more likely, 10 defenders up when they see the buffs coming in and now the attackers are badly outnumbered.
You're a base-taking legend in your own mind, Fugi. But you never actually do anything like this, so you have no idea how it actually plays out in the MA. (Do you even play in the MA any more? I can't remember even seeing you on, much less running into you, in the last year at least, and I'm on a lot.) Very little in life ever goes exactly according to plan, and only an idiot assumes it will and leaves no margin for error.
Anyway, it's not the attacker's responsibility to make sure the defenders have fun.
So what you NEED is 9-10 guys, what you bring is 40-50.
Nobody brings 40-50 guys. What happens is you bring 10-15 and another 30-40 tag along or show up later. But there's no way to control that or know it in advance.
With the smaller force you might run into 5 or 6 defenders, but if your hitting 4-5 bases (10 x 4-5= 40-50 guys) at once odds are good your still going to capture a few bases.
Except you don't HAVE 40-50 guys to dispose of like that.
You have an absurdly naive view of how hordes work. I've tried to explain this to you many times before, but you're too stubborn to listen. Hordes in AH are like any other mob. Nobody has 40 guys from one squad on at a time (even 15 on at one time is a very high number for us, 6-10 is the norm, plus we usually have a few regular guests on vox). NOBODY commands a horde of 50 players. You command a small nucleus and the rest just show up. They may or may not be in the mission, if a mission was posted - I often post a mission and get 8-10 guys joining only to see 30 taking off (OTOH sometimes you see only 6 actually taking off). If you're lucky most of them cooperate to the extent of actually trying to do anything useful, if you're unlucky 20 of them dump ords and scream off chasing the first low con they see. If you hit resistance they may stick around to furball and even get bigger, or they may just blow away like so much smoke. OTOH sometimes you'll get 40 well-disciplined guys who all actually cooperate and know what they're doing and it ends up being a slam dunk. There's no predicting it and no commanding it.
There's certainly no dividing it into tactical units beyond the most basic task allocation at the target base (i.e., "Jugs hit town, ponies hit hangars") - and even then half the attackers may or may not listen or do what they're supposed to. The core of guys you know and can count on their having their act together is much smaller, and since they're the only ones you can really count on, you need most of them on the main attack.
If you ever actually tried to execute all the oh-so-neat-and-perfect plans you advocate here, you'd find out that the cat-herding exercise known as running missions in AH isn't anywhere close to as easy or simple as you imagine.
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Austin Powers: Only two things scare me and one of them is nuclear war.
Basil Exposition: What's the other?
Austin Powers: Excuse me?
Basil Exposition: What's the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
Excuse me, only Shamus and Hajo smell like cabbage. We still like them though.
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Does it matter?
To me they are equivelant, although I would problably have a better time fighting outnumbered against a local horde than watch little hordes march around taking bases unopposed. At least with the one scenario there is a fight.
To use the football analogy I think the local hording is roughly analogous to playing 11 on 5. The 5 guys might still have some fun playing, no matter how lopsided the contest is.
What we see in the MA (for the past several years) is analogous to the 5 man team saying "F this" and leaving, and the 11 man team stays on the field to score touchdown after touchdown and rave about how awesome they are.
Just my opinion though, and I'm open to hearing what really makes that fun. It isn't for me, and I don't really understand how it could be, but perhaps it just has never been explained right.
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:lol
We must often ask ourselves for guidance. What would Austin Powers do in this situation?
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Does it matter?
To me they are equivelant, although I would problably have a better time fighting outnumbered against a local horde than watch little hordes march around taking bases unopposed. At least with the one scenario there is a fight.
To use the football analogy I think the local hording is roughly analogous to playing 11 on 5. The 5 guys might still have some fun playing, no matter how lopsided the contest is.
What we see in the MA (for the past several years) is analogous to the 5 man team saying "F this" and leaving, and the 11 man team stays on the field to score touchdown after touchdown and rave about how awesome they are.
Just my opinion though, and I'm open to hearing what really makes that fun. It isn't for me, and I don't really understand how it could be, but perhaps it just has never been explained right.
Urchin, I totaly agree and I too would like to know what people find fun in that situation.
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:lol
We must often ask ourselves for guidance. What would Austin Powers do in this situation?
SHAG BABY SHAG :rofl :rofl
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Would you pay to play football as long as your team could have more players on the field, or would that not be fun for you? And if not, WHY not? What's the difference to you?
The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?
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Anyway, it's not the attacker's responsibility to make sure the defenders have fun.
So what happens when there are no defenders? Is the game still fun for you?
I do mean NO defenders too. Not 1 guy to vulch a couple times, nothing. You just get to roll base after base after base ad infinium.
Is it still fun?
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Urchin, I totaly agree and I too would like to know what people find fun in that situation.
it may be fun for one side( i dont see how) but its getting frustrating for the other, and it just seems to be just growing
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I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.
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I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.
that's great if both hordes wants to stay and fight, it don't work that way anymore
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The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?
I've got a bad feeling about this lol, I think we are having 2 conversations now...
Anyway, your response is appreciated, but I think it is somewhat misleading. A blitz can be countered, by good blocking or if the QB and recievers both see it, etc.
What happens in the MA is basically you have two football games going on at the same time, on the same field... only both teams are playing offense. Nobody plays 'defense' because (to use your analogy) as soon as their 'blitz' gets stopped they pack up and move to a different field.
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The difference is we're not talking about having more players on the field, we're talking about flooding one area to overwhelm the local defenders. Football teams do this all the time, both on offense and defense. Or are you saying that blitzing the quarterback is unsportsmanlike and makes for boring games?
Um YOU might not be, but the rest of us are. We are talking about is YOU having 40 on the field and we having 10. OVERALL, not what you bring to a field in a mission, what you have on your favorite chess piece.
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bait?
:rolleyes:
bye bye
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So what happens when there are no defenders? Is the game still fun for you?
If that ever happens, I'll let you know. No sign of it so far.
Um YOU might not be, but the rest of us are. We are talking about is YOU having 40 on the field and we having 10. OVERALL, not what you bring to a field in a mission, what you have on your favorite chess piece.
No, we're not. The OP wasn't about overall numbers, it was about horde attacks at one field, and most of the thread has been on that point. You're the one who started confusing those separate issues.
I explained above, hordes have NOTHING to do with overall numbers. Just a few nights ago in LWO there was a big nit horde attacking 128 even though nits had at least 20 fewer players on than rooks or bish. It was possible because no rooks or nits were fighting each other. Which country is getting ganged at any given time varies even from hour to hour but usually there's at least one front with very little activity, meaning both those teams are ganging up on the 3rd. Stricter ENY won't do a thing to change that, in fact it might make it worse.
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Does it matter?
Does it matter?
Well, it does to me. I can’t speak for others.
I don’t like your football analogy. It’s too complicated. Are we still talking cripples? Or retards? Or just out-numbered. Or out-numbered and retarded? Sigh…ok, I’ll give it a try. :rolleyes:
If it’s truly 11 guys vs. 5 and they don’t have access to another 6 guys, then no, that’s not what I want. I’ll usually switch over to help the low side (as I responded to HT).
If it’s really 11 vs. 11 but 6 of the other guys are just tools and won’t cooperate with their team; if they are stopping to text on their cell phones in the middle of a play; picking their nose and day dreaming; moving off to the sideline and demanding someone come play them 1 vs. 1 football- man to man; if they can’t cooperate and coordinate their efforts like a proper team so that only 5 are really even effective……then yeah. I’ll crush them like insects and I enjoy every minute of it. I’ll break them like a freakin stick. They are stupid, and weak, and are not using the resources available to them and that should be punished mercilessly in the harsh crucible of competition. :D
Let me try an analogy on you. I promise it won’t be so complicated.
I’m playing someone chess in a tournament setting. We start out with equal pieces and equal position (remember it matters to me if teams are reasonably even, and usually most maps are have reasonably equal starting positions…except for Mindanao).
However, as the game progresses the idiot across from me is just not paying attention, making stupid moves. Boom. Loses a rook. Boom. Loses a knight. Boom. Loses his queen. At this point I’ve achieved a powerful advantage in “material”. What do I do now?
Do I offer to take some of my pieces off the board to let him have more fun?
Do I promise not to use all my pieces until he has captured some of mine and evened up?
Do I let him put some of his pieces back on so he won’t feeeeeeeel bad?
Or do I continue to leverage the material advantage I have established to relentlessly, and mercilessly crush his remaining positions until checkmate, or until he lays down his king in abject submission to the brutal weight of inevitability?
Well, if I could play chess worth a crap (which I can’t), I think you know which I would do. Is that unreasonable?
Wab
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I tried reading through this thread, but my head almost exploded after 3 pages. I'll just say this: 1 horde + 1 horde = 1 furball.
Appearently, its actually, physically IMPOSSIBLE to launch enough planes to defend against a horde attack. Its simply not supported in the software.
Maybe in AH III. :pray
:cool:,
Wab
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No, we're not. The OP wasn't about overall numbers, it was about horde attacks at one field, and most of the thread has been on that point. You're the one who started confusing those separate issues.
I explained above, hordes have NOTHING to do with overall numbers. Just a few nights ago in LWO there was a big nit horde attacking 128 even though nits had at least 20 fewer players on than rooks or bish. It was possible because no rooks or nits were fighting each other. Which country is getting ganged at any given time varies even from hour to hour but usually there's at least one front with very little activity, meaning both those teams are ganging up on the 3rd. Stricter ENY won't do a thing to change that, in fact it might make it worse.
But it is about overall numbers, it is the root and basis of this problem.
How is stricter eny going to make it worse? and on who?
I agree local hordes will happen, but when these local hordes also include inadvertent "extras" like another 40 players like in that example regardless if it was intentional or not, how is that fair for the players that must go up against that?
Sounds like you want your "fair" to include these "extras" regardless of what side is having their turn in the pickle jar.
So when as you say the other two sides are engaged its OK to have your "extras" AND "horde" a single side but they cant?
Your not only using these extra 40 or so to protect your precious land grabbing prizes, but also to steam roll new bases, if all sides were closer to being equal you would not be the primary target due to having the larger force to contend with, its just that simple.
If one attacks you full force, it would expose their undefended bases as well for the third side to attack, so it would in essence spread this fight out, but that's not what you want is it?, you want everyone to have to deal with the way YOU play the game not how everyone is forced to play the game with that much of an advantage.
Or is that not fair enough for you? Its what everyone else has to contend with now
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Wabbit kick me in the nuts for saying so, but I reckon that's a bad analogy because it's set up as a 1:1.
There is just one guy deciding "the opposition"'s behavior. Unlike in AH arenas. It's not always, that the team's so single-minded. Whether single-mindedly shreckless or wanting to play another game (e.g. furballing his chess pieces, IOW AH isn't a game with only one way to play it like chess is), or single-mindedly making the all wrong moves while meaning to actually compete on the actual chess game. Appearently, its actually, physically IMPOSSIBLE to launch enough planes to defend against a horde attack. Its simply not supported in the software.
Maybe in AH III. :pray
:cool:,
Wab
That's not the point...
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I’m playing someone chess in a tournament setting. We start out with equal pieces and equal position (remember it matters to me if teams are reasonably even, and usually most maps are have reasonably equal starting positions…except for Mindanao).
However, as the game progresses the idiot across from me is just not paying attention, making stupid moves. Boom. Loses a rook. Boom. Loses a knight. Boom. Loses his queen. At this point I’ve achieved a powerful advantage in “material”. What do I do now?
Do I offer to take some of my pieces off the board to let him have more fun?
Do I promise not to use all my pieces until he has captured some of mine and evened up?
Do I let him put some of his pieces back on so he won’t feeeeeeeel bad?
Or do I continue to leverage the material advantage I have established to relentlessly, and mercilessly crush his remaining positions until checkmate, or until he lays down his king in abject submission to the brutal weight of inevitability?
Well, if I could play chess worth a crap (which I can’t), I think you know which I would do. Is that unreasonable?
Wab
Actually that is a pretty good analogy. It might even illustrate the difference between our opinion. Let me ask you to clarify your position though - let's just for sake of argument say you COULD play chess worth a crap, in fact you are an international grandmaster! Would you have fun playing in a tournament for those ranked under 800? I'm guessing probably not, because of how you answered the football analogy, but it is a different way of saying the same thing.
In fact, I think the difference between you and I may be as simple as your analogy - you seem to think of this game as a competition where the 'opposition' deserves to be crushed, and hopefully in a manner that would discourage them from ever having the temerity to challenge you again - I think of it as a game. Like chess, except not in a tournament setting. Like a game in that it is important that both sides have fun.
Let me ask you a different question, related to your chess analogy. Lets say you aren't playing in a tournament, just a friendly series of games against someone that you are clearly better than. Do you ever get to the point where you'd give up pieces (play a piece or two down) just so the other player might have more fun, and to make the game more challenging? Or would you just have more fun winning crushing victory after victory - and perhaps telling your opponent to 'quit crying' if he suggested you play a knight down next game?
Please forgive any spelling or formatting errors... I'm TDY on an old laptop and it goes haywire for some reason when I qoute longish posts.
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If that ever happens, I'll let you know. No sign of it so far.
You can't hazard a guess? What do you THINK? Do you think it would be fun for you and your 30 closest friends to just take bases completely unopposed for a month?
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How is stricter eny going to make it worse? and on who?
While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases. Dads, I'm sure you remember the old RT 190A8 missions that Falcon23 would put together when ENY got high. Base rolling can be done just as easily in high ENY aircraft.
I think I would rather the dar range be extended farther and if one side outnumbers another in a given sector (or maybe zone) by X amount (to be determined) the dar would go all the way to the ground to eliminate the NOE when there is a large local imbalance.
For me, the answer is making changes that give the defenders a bit more warning (time to defend).
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How is stricter eny going to make it worse? and on who?
While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases. Dads, I'm sure you remember the old RT 190A8 missions that Falcon23 would put together when ENY got high. Base rolling can be done just as easily in high ENY aircraft.
I think I would rather the dar range be extended farther and if one side outnumbers another in a given sector (or maybe zone) by X amount (to be determined) the dar would go all the way to the ground to eliminate the NOE when there is a large local imbalance.
For me, the answer is making changes that give the defenders a bit more warning (time to defend).
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Wabbit kick me in the nuts for saying so, but I reckon that's a bad analogy because it's set up as a 1:1.
In my opinion, the difference is irrelevant.
Whether it is a individual in a chess match,
a company in the market place,
or a football team on the field,
or an AH team in the arena,
failure to perform in a competitive environment should lead to consequences that might not be pleasant at that moment.
That is the strong motivation to avoid failure, and powerful encouragement to find a solution on the next try.
That's not the point...
It is depending on which poster you are referring too. Some have a belief that the horde CAN NOT be effectively countered or matched. Rolex was implying that it could. I was supporting his assertion with sarcasm. ;)
Regards,
Wab
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You can't hazard a guess? What do you THINK? Do you think it would be fun for you and your 30 closest friends to just take bases completely unopposed for a month?
Although I joy fighting their horde, they more than enjoy it, just log on at 2 am, you will see them take bases ad nauseum with out resistance...
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But it is about overall numbers, it is the root and basis of this problem.
No, it isn't.
Everything you're saying is based on one erroneous premise, which is that the players for any given country are usually distributed more or less evenly between the respective fronts for that country's two opponents. In other words, you're assuming that generally, if there are 100 bish, 80 rooks, and 80 nits on, the rooks are being fought by 40 nits and 50 bish, the nits are being fought by 40 rooks and 50 bish, and the bish are being fought by 40 rooks and 40 nits and thus have an "excess" of 20 players.
But that is rarely the case. More likely the bish are being fought by 78 rooks and 77 nits and all of 5 nits and rooks are fighting each other. So the bish's "excess" of 20 players disappears and instead they're outnumbered 3-2 across both fronts.
Change any of the country names around and it's equally true, and that or a lesser version (where, say, 20-30 of the rooks and nits are fighting each other and the bish are "only" outnumbered 1.3 to 1) is what you usually see in the MA.
The dynamics of a 3-way game are nothing at all like those of a 2-way game.
How is stricter eny going to make it worse? and on who?
Stricter ENY will make it worse because it will give that much more incentive for the smaller sides not to fight each other at all, because if they gang the larger side they'll have the numbers AND the enemy will be flying crappy ENY 30+ planes against low-cost perk rides.
There's little more annoying than being outnumbered almost 2-1 and having the other side show up in Tempests and 262s while you're stuck in P-40s and A6M2s.
BUT even then, we're still talking about overall numbers, which have NOTHING to do with hordes. You badly misunderstand why and how hordes form. It's the result of an aggregate of individual decisions by individual players to lump together, not the result of some commanding general's decision to use his extra assets in a particular way.
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You can't hazard a guess? What do you THINK? Do you think it would be fun for you and your 30 closest friends to just take bases completely unopposed for a month?
Its happened several times already, I have seen them horde a base and nobody wants to up anymore, its just too many to contend with sometimes and it just gets old for the defenders, usually the hangers go down before anyone gets up anyway even if they wanted to. So for him to say it hasn't isn't true, unless he is counting the 1 guy that happened to make it up and in that case ......
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How is stricter eny going to make it worse? and on who?
While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases. Dads, I'm sure you remember the old RT 190A8 missions that Falcon23 would put together when ENY got high. Base rolling can be done just as easily in high ENY aircraft.
I think I would rather the dar range be extended farther and if one side outnumbers another in a given sector (or maybe zone) by X amount (to be determined) the dar would go all the way to the ground to eliminate the NOE when there is a large local imbalance.
For me, the answer is making changes that give the defenders a bit more warning (time to defend). It is still up to them to actually do it though.
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No, it isn't.
everything after this point is trivial...................... .................
If you cant see that this is a problem, we will agree to disagree.
When any side can have 40+ on a side that is a problem in any game.
Your simplistic view is clouded by your inexperience and lack of venture of these other sides to see exactly what is happening. I used to think the same way until I got out and seen the light.
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You can't hazard a guess? What do you THINK? Do you think it would be fun for you and your 30 closest friends to just take bases completely unopposed for a month?
It will never happen, so the question is pointless.
Despite the endless whining and crying here, fights are very easy to find most nights and base takes are usually opposed.
Although I joy fighting their horde, they more than enjoy it, just log on at 2 am, you will see them take bases ad nauseum with out resistance...
Not since LWOH was introduced you won't, especially not on a narrow map like Mindanao.
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The question isn't pointless. You don't have to answer it, that is absolutely your perogative - but I'm beginning to think you are definately in the camp of those whom I will never really understand.
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If you cant see that this is a problem, we will agree to disagree.
When any side can have 40+ on a side that is a problem in any game.
They DON'T HAVE 40+
They have FEWER because they are fighting nearly the full strength of BOTH OPPONENTS.
I don't know how you can possibly fail to understand that. OVERALL NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING BECAUSE THE OPPONENTS ARE NOT EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED AGAINST EACH OTHER.
LOCAL CONDITIONS on each of the fronts determines who has a numerical advantage.
OVERALL NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING.
This is NOT irrelevant, it is the only thing that IS relevant WRT this question.
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While I support a fresh look at ENY, I don't think it will have any effect on the local hoards rolling bases.
I dont want it to have an effect on local hordes at all..... Thats the spice of this whole thing, only thing it would effect is not having the extra 40 guys a side could bring because eny isnt doing anything to slow it down.
:aok
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The question isn't pointless.
Again. It is pointless because it has never happened, is not happening now, and will never happen.
It's like asking if you'd be lonely if you lived in NYC and every other inhabitant moved to Detroit. It's a question premised on nonsense. Answering it gives it more dignity than it merits.
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I dont want it to have an effect on local hordes at all..... Thats the spice of this whole thing, only thing it would effect is not having the extra 40 guys a side could bring because eny isnt doing anything to slow it down.
I'm with you on that score. Did the ENY system change in the last year or so? I don't fly low ENY planes, but I also can't remember the last time the system told me I couldn't fly what I wanted because of ENY, which used to happen once in awhile. Did HTC loosen up the ENY rules?
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They DON'T HAVE 40+
They have FEWER because they are fighting nearly the full strength of BOTH OPPONENTS.
I don't know how you can possibly fail to understand that. OVERALL NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING BECAUSE THE OPPONENTS ARE NOT EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED AGAINST EACH OTHER.
LOCAL CONDITIONS on each of the fronts determines who has a numerical advantage.
OVERALL NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING.
This is NOT irrelevant, it is the only thing that IS relevant WRT this question.
Again, your wrong. And your entitled to your twisted logic no matter how you want to quantify and justify having 40 extra players on a side, there is nothing fair about it when eny has little or no effect. :aok
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Again. It is pointless because it has never happened, is not happening now, and will never happen.
It's like asking if you'd be lonely if you lived in NYC and every other inhabitant moved to Detroit. It's a question premised on nonsense. Answering it gives it more dignity than it merits.
Like I said... you don't have to answer it. Hell, the way you are refusing to answer it is answer enough for me.
I would just love to know why you think it is fun - I have never had it explained to me in a way that really resonated with me.
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I'm with you on that score. Did the ENY system change in the last year or so? I don't fly low ENY planes, but I also can't remember the last time the system told me I couldn't fly what I wanted because of ENY, which used to happen once in awhile. Did HTC loosen up the ENY rules?
It has always been the greater the numbers in the arena the greater the gap or amount of players needed to get to 40%,,, which you end up with 40-50 players difference before you start seeing eny kick in sometimes..... When eny gets to 10 your talking about alot of players that can still bring alot of ords with some decent planes, too little too late.
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Again, your wrong. And you entitled to your twisted logic no matter how you want to quantify and justify having 40 extra players on a side, there is nothing fair about it when eny has little or no effect.
There is no twisting.
Say there are 140 rooks, 100 nits, and 100 bish on. Not a single bish and nit are fighting each other, all 200 of them are attacking the 140 rooks. Who has the numerical advantage?
If you say the rooks, you are either considerably less educated than Jethro Bodine, or just being stubborn and refusing to admit plain and obvious fact.
The rooks are outnumbered almost 3-2 in that situation. Giving them a high ENY would only make things worse.
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You didn't really listen to what he said though Chief......... I may have a bias, but I do find that if Bish has 40 more than the others, the others are both concentrating on Bish. That is actually a natural reaction that behavioral psychos would talk to you until your head falls off about.
Again, your wrong. And you entitled to your twisted logic no matter how you want to quantify and justify having 40 extra players on a side, there is nothing fair about it when eny has little or no effect. :aok
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There is no twisting.
Say there are 140 rooks, 100 nits, and 100 bish on. Not a single bish and nit are fighting each other, all 200 of them are attacking the 140 rooks. Who has the numerical advantage?
If you say the rooks, you are either considerably less educated than Jethro Bodine, or just being stubborn and refusing to admit plain and obvious fact.
The rooks are outnumbered almost 3-2 in that situation. Giving them a high ENY would only make things worse.
Your a broken record, again get out of your box your in and see the light. I used that same argument years ago until I got out of my box too.
You cannot assume that the other two sides only will fight bish, it happens to all sides.
I have yet to hear you answer the question of having this same advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
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Like I said... you don't have to answer it. Hell, the way you are refusing to answer it is answer enough for me.
The answer, and the only answer, I am giving you is that it is a stupid, pointless question because it asks what will happen when something that will never happen, happens. It's like asking what will happen when 2 + 2 = 7. The only correct answer to such an ignorant question is "That will never happen, so your question is meaningless."
Anything else you want to conclude is your own imagination.
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You're right, I'm stubbornly refusing to admit that I'm spouting plain and obvious nonsense, claiming that a side that's outnumbered 3-2 has a numerical advantage.
Thank you.
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In my opinion, the difference is irrelevant.
Whether it is a individual in a chess match,
a company in the market place,
or a football team on the field,
or an AH team in the arena,
failure to perform in a competitive environment should lead to consequences that might not be pleasant at that moment.
iow players are responsible for other players (in)action. I don't think so.
Agreed on everything else.
It is depending on which poster you are referring too. Some have a believe that the horde CAN NOT be effectively countered or matched. Rolex was implying that it could. I was supporting his assertion with sarcasm. ;)
Ok but jest aside it's beside the point. We can go back and forth till we agree it's a good jest but in the end's the same conclusion- it misses the point: playing the game so that you're beating the other side not by fighting em but by denying em the ability to fight.
You can beat someone flat out, denying all his attempts and decapitating him asap. Or you can seek out all his attempts, play his game by his rules in each of those attempts, and then defeat him. Rinse repeat for all his possible attempts; this is a more complete victory IMO. Somewhere in between you have the kind of guaranteed war winning that's rich with both strategy and tactics that I'm suggesting.
Myself I don't care either way. Adapt or die's always been how I see it.
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Thank you for not making me look like more of a fool than I am, I pretend to have years of experience at real warfare and just for your information having 40 players to help me rule the world is what I deem as fair gaming practices.
I love you daddy...
No, Thank you...... :ahand
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So there's nothing to argue about, you plainly say you don't care if the other side gets zero gameplay out of your missions. Making the other side feel good = strawman Agreed
Doesn't sound like that's what you meant to write. I can't tell what you mean.Sarcasm. It's not our fault everyone just wants to tell us it is.
If you have no escort? Sure. Yes "I" have killed plenty of "guys like you". I've done a few tours where I had three figure kill tallies against bombers. You're wrong if you think I'm motivated for this argument because I've got something to prove. It's not about me and not really about you in particular either.Your tally line makes no difference in this conversation so don't bring it up like you're some superman stick. The argument is people trying to call another persons style of play inferior of unfair. Work up some gumption form up a horde interceptor wing and stop us. Otherwise just stop trying to impose your empirical view upon us common people.
Prolly no such thing as a perfect analogy. Analogies only emphasize a particular similarity. The boxing analogy only illustrates one thing: victory without peril, base capture without a fight, people sitting in front of their computers effectively as spectators.I get what your analogy attempted to emphasize, you just did a poor job of thinking it through.
Doesnt sound like you understand my argument. I don't want you to do anything, I'm only arguing the pros and cons of different scenarios. Your impression that I'm a furballer is mostly ok, and what do furballers do? They kill players, not buildings. As far as I'm privately concerned the you guys are just targets, but like I said this isn't about what I like. The objective is to clear up some misunderstandings on both sides even if I'm probably a little biased towards detailing the tactical side. For the millionth time, we all get what ludicrous version of the game you want us to conform to. 'Little biased' is an understatement you haven't given a single argument for 'hordlings' have you?
Non sequitur, or how to warp an analogy's meaning.I didn't warp anything. You can't make an analogy that doesn't completely make sense. It's like if I say your style is a fork and mines a spoon. Well, ok they are different styles of silverware and different styles of gameplay analogy=true. Other than that it makes NO SENSE. In my analogy it directly correlates to what the 'horde' opposition actually wants us to do (not put forth our best effort so the other team can play along for a bit longer) while yours is just a rabid generalization. Admit that it was a poor choice and what I responded to you demonstrates that.
More derailed analogy and back to square one, you're essentially saying the game is all about you, and that you're ok with waging war against unoccupied buildings and conquering empty territory, that getting a fight while racking up the real estate is not an objective. I did say you guys had the strategic side down pat but I guess it's too hard to take a compliment at face value.A compliment in the face of numerous insults... I can't believe I missed it. Capping bases irregardless of their defensive compliment is a part of them game that we choose to enjoy. We like teamwork, practice, improving in all skills (not just dog-fighting), making an objective and goal, setting sail and ACHIEVING IT. It's our choice to play the game play content we want to and we don't hassle you about yours.
Yes obviously. I didn't say strategic had no place in the game, only that you couldn't (not yet anyway) expect to not rub a non negligible chunk of the players the wrong way if you basically deny them any tactical answer to your strategic action. I also said and say that big uncontested missions are boring but that's just some opinionated coloring to my actual argumentsThere is a tactical answer, but as normal since it isn't convenient for you it's an invalid answer. Don't like the 'horde' come and stop it. I'm sure you'd get plenty of fun and enjoyment over running through us like a knife through warm butter (that analogy works because it makes complete sense, not just a generalization) and watching us run and subsequently steam from the agony of our failure. I have a lot of fun and satisfaction over taking bases no matter the number. It's enjoyable to succeed and achieve MY goals and objectives.
I'd appreciate the WTG and I mostly agree with the sentiment but it just hides the misunderstanding at the root of this argument: Players like me don't care about names in lights - it's not the destination but the road that matters to us. We don't care if you win the war or if we beat you. We just want to have a good fight out of it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you ask) we don't have any hierarchy like you guys. So in that respect you're preaching to the choir - we don't want to tell others what to do, even less than you do. That's not true about all "furballers" but there's a good number of us and if you make the argument personal you ought to know that.
"Crying" = strawman
"fooling around" : :lol What... And you're not fooling around in front of your computer?If I didn't know better I'd think you're starting to come around... It's very hallmark of you to enjoy the scenery of your journey. At the base of this whole discussion is people want us to not play how we like to play and imagine that this is the 'Even the kid who eats his boogers gets a Trophy' League.
In fact you don'tDo too.
Where did I pretend to have such authority? I'm not concerned with crap or how much esteem you have for me, only what makes sense. I'm just reasoning that you would still have your strategic success if you changed the plan a little so that there was some actual air combat involved instead of a colonization swarm. You could allow some tactical resistance while still denying any significant strategic attempts. If you pull the rug from under the feet of an oppfor that's disorganized because e.g. it's nothing but players who don't know each other, you're not gonna get much tactical level resistance and consequently definitely nothing at strat level.By making a prolonged argument supporting the 'horde' haters you are precisely telling us your opinion on how we 'should' play. "A rational decision is one that is not just reasoned, but is also optimal for achieving a goal or solving a problem." Keywords there are 'optimal' and 'achieving'. It is against the definition of rationality - otherwise known as reason - and in reality completely illogical to act in the manner of which you contend. In fact sound logic would conclude that if we wanted to achieve a base grab, the use of high number of attackers will both increase our chance of success, as well as, intimidate and detract the enemy from achieving successful intervention.
Yes this is basically mostly a tragedy of the commons argument. But youll miss the mark if you ignore mine and others arguments and tunnel vision on the abstract ethics of 'tragedy of the commons'Could be a plausible outcome, except we get reset maps, and new people stream in over time so I'm not to sure where the depletion of resource is.
But like I said if you see nothing wrong with conquering territory with zero resistance, that's fine too. I think you're pooping where you eat, even if only a little, but it's your call.
Objective achieved. As for the pooping comment... lol
January 2009.Here's where you show your true colors. New players are no longer entitled to their opinion. In fact if anyone with a completely inaccurate timestamp on their profile disagrees with you, they automatically know more about everything than you do and again you are inferior. Patronizing another player only proves that your arrogance actually hinders your point of view and your intelligence. That is the true tragedy here, that your own self image is to large for you to see that there even is a fence.
I won't comment anyone else's remarks mostly because I'm not reading this entire thread AGAIN to understand their point and for you to recurse.
And yes history in the game is almost totally irrespective to someone's credibility.But it was enough to berate Vudu15.
I'm done trying to defend myself or anyone else in this game who wants to 'horde' and mostly because I think threads that are 3 pages long and take 30 min to organize are excessive.... BY A LOT. If you want to go on feel free, I'd be happy to read your response and disagree silently.
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i dont sweat hordes.. they'll get bored eventually, doing nothing but killing buildings and ack and maybe sharing 2 or 3 kills between 30 people cant be that fun for very long.. I know i got sick of it after about a year of being a hordelet myself.
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Just to make this perfectly clear: I have NEVER claimed to have real-war experience.
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Like I said... you don't have to answer it. Hell, the way you are refusing to answer it is answer enough for me.
I would just love to know why you think it is fun - I have never had it explained to me in a way that really resonated with me.
Your a broken record, again get out of your box your in and see the light. I used that same argument years ago until I got out of my box too.
You cannot assume that the other two sides only will fight bish, it happens to all sides.
I have yet to hear you answer the question of having this same advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
^^He didnt answer my question either.
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Wabbit kick me in the nuts for saying so, but I reckon that's a bad analogy because it's set up as a 1:1.
His chess analogy being 1:1 was a bad analogy, but your boxing one wasn't??? Guess boxing's a team sport now.
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let's just for sake of argument say you COULD play chess worth a crap, in fact you are an international grandmaster! Would you have fun playing in a tournament for those ranked under 800?
How much am I charging for my appearence? :cheers:
I'm guessing probably not, because of how you answered the football analogy, but it is a different way of saying the same thing.
I think we mostly agree here in the context of the overall team balance in the arena. I have no problem have crushing local numerical superiority if the enemy fails to pull their head out and up sufficient defence.
In fact, I think the difference between you and I may be as simple as your analogy - you seem to think of this game as a competition where the 'opposition' deserves to be crushed, and hopefully in a manner that would discourage them from ever having the temerity to challenge you again
Nope. It isn't about challenging me again. Its about doing the same stupid things again that got them beat. If they are man enough, they'll take their beating without typing a word of complaint on the bbs or chan200, and instead put their energies on figuring out how to get even. The absolute most you should ever say, even after the most humiliating, crushing beatdown is "Good shooting" or "Good game." Anything more than that, and you're just a woman whining.
Let me ask you a different question, related to your chess analogy. Lets say you aren't playing in a tournament, just a friendly series of games against someone that you are clearly better than. Do you ever get to the point where you'd give up pieces (play a piece or two down) just so the other player might have more fun, and to make the game more challenging? Or would you just have more fun winning crushing victory after victory - and perhaps telling your opponent to 'quit crying' if he suggested you play a knight down next game?
Well, I'm going to want to separate the context. Practicing and training vs competition.
If I am "practicing" or "training" with someone I may set up various scenarios specifically for training purposes. I might let him set pieces back so we can play back thru a part of the game without having to start completely over. It is clear and stated that we are in training mode.
When we start to play a real game, all bets are off and I am 100% effort, no mercy, no holding back.
When I was a kid I played a lot of tennis. I was fairly good. I had a friend who was a couple of years older. One time when we were playing I realized he had basically given me a game to keep the match going. It took some pressing before he admitted it. I took great pains to explain to him how unacceptable that was. I don't think I ever played him again. Training is one thing. Competition is another and I expect my opponent to give 110%. Whether its chess, checkers, tennis, or AH, I expect my opponents to play like their life depended on it. Nor would I slack off one bit for any possible reason. If you beat me, rest assured, YOU BEAT ME!
To me, INTENSITY, is what is fun.
Now don't get the idea I go around crushing people. Usually I'm the one getting crushed, but the principle is the same, and besides...I can dream can't I?
:lol,
Wab
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so don't bring it up like you're some superman stick.
:lol .... I said it wasn't bragging. Just showing it makes no difference to me IE I'm not arguing from emotion like you seem to be, EG "hatred" etc. Ive been arguing about as dispassionately as you could.
The argument is people trying to call another persons style of play inferior of unfair.
You said as much. Unless you think think denying the other side any gameplay is fair.
Inferiority has nothing to do with anything, there's no such thing
Work up some gumption form up a horde interceptor wing and stop us.
Gumption's got nothing to do with it
Otherwise just stop trying to impose your empirical view upon us common people.
So merely proposing an argument is imposing?
Never argued anyone's inferior or more or less common. That's just FUD
.I get what your analogy attempted to emphasize, you just did a poor job of thinking it through.
meaningless tit for tat
'Little biased' is an understatement you haven't given a single argument for 'hordlings' have you?
Sure I can. Strategic and tactical gameplay, you can't have one without the other. Pretty sure I'd said so already and your real problem is you don't really want to argue this but make sure that everyone knows you guys are the good guys and the other guys are bad guys. Which is the kind of thing that perpetuates bickering in these toolsheder/furballer arguments and... Fine, carry on if that's what you're after.
A compliment in the face of numerous insults...
Here's where you show your true colors. New players are no longer entitled to their opinion.
Patronizing another player only proves that your arrogance actually hinders your point of view and your intelligence. That is the true tragedy here, that your own self image is to large for you to see that there even is a fence.
:rolleyes: Why bother....
In fact sound logic would conclude that if we wanted to achieve a base grab, the use of high number of attackers will both increase our chance of success, as well as, intimidate and detract the enemy from achieving successful intervention.
This is the only piece worth remembering. Have fun becoming the next big time war winners. Edit- and that's not condescension either. Really, fly what you love and love what you fly. My impression is that that's all that can be said because an up front honest discussion is not possible. I'm not going to not call things as I see em, e.g. that someone is wrong when he says he knows a lot of us old players who've been on both "sides" of this issue "can't look over the fence and see what anyone else is talkin about". Why don't you wait ten years and then have some guy who just joined tell you you can't consider something you know nothing about because you've never done, when in fact you were doing it all the time a few years earlier.
But it was enough to berate Vudu15.
FYI you can't pretend to know what someone thinks when you missed the previous 10 years. Which is what Vudu was saying- he knows "people like us" (and note from the start I'd said I wasn't arguing this personally (neither you guys nor me) but debating the general dynamics going on in the game) "cant look over the fence and see what anyone else is talkin about." which is what I'm doing here, trying to clarify the reasonable parts of "furballer" (as if there was such a homogeneous "side") pov. But I see now it's a waste of time. e.g.
New players are no longer entitled to their opinion.
I said the exact opposite.
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His chess analogy being 1:1 was a bad analogy, but your boxing one wasn't??? Guess boxing's a team sport now.
Lemme say it again: the point was that a boxing match where there's no fighting is not entertaining, whereas one where there actually is some contest, is. That the analogy can be used another way than was meant it is beside the point.
The point I wasn't making that you bring up: The incongruity between horde and non-horde oppfor is exactly what I'm saying. Wabbit is characterizing the defending swarm of uncoordinated players as if it were as single-minded as a chess opponent, but it isn't.
Since you've made this not about the dynamics of furballing and hording, but a personal thing, here's my take on the whole thing: I personally don't care what happens in the game. I see red guys, I kill em. It's a calamity that you "don't get" what a good fight's about, and that so many players will even argue that there's nothing wrong with turning the game into something more rather than less of a spectator sport, but it makes no difference to me. I already have what I want: planes I can flog and bad guys to fight with.
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And I should point out that this isn't about Bish, it's about all 3 countries...... Whoever has +40 people is going to be attacked on both sides. It's always been like that and we all know it.
You didn't really listen to what he said though Chief......... I may have a bias, but I do find that if Bish has 40 more than the others, the others are both concentrating on Bish. That is actually a natural reaction that behavioral psychos would talk to you until your head falls off about.
Again, your wrong. And your entitled to your twisted logic no matter how you want to quantify and justify having 40 extra players on a side, there is nothing fair about it when eny has little or no effect. :aok
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bye bye
you going somewhere?
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He didnt answer my question either.
It seemed like useful conversation had concluded, but if you insist...
You cannot assume that the other two sides only will fight bish, it happens to all sides.
I don't assume that, in fact I used rooks as the gangee in my latest example.
I have yet to hear you answer the question of having this same advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
If one side is getting ganged by both other sides, the gangee will be at a disadvantage regardless of the overall numbers.
If you define numerical imbalance as unfair, no, that isn't fair. But ENY does nothing to address it because ENY doesn't take the ganging into account, it assumes each side is putting half its resources against each other side, which is rarely true.
Another problem with ENY is it's based on the lowest side rather than the total. If you have 100 nits against 80 rooks and 80 bish, and all the rooks and bish are attacking the nits, it is 160-100 with the 100 nits having a moderate ENY (which is definitely unfair, they're outnumbered AND have ENY?!?) But if you have 100 nits against 120 rooks and 40 bish, the nits' ENY suddenly shoots up to 29, even though the numerical imbalance - 160 rooks + bish against 100 nits - is EXACTLY the same. Of course the rooks will have a high ENY too, but the bish won't even though they probably have a numerical advantage because most of the nits will be fighting the rooks. If all the nits give up fighting the bish because they're fed up with ENY and instead go to fight the rooks on roughly equal terms, then you have a bish "excess" of 40 planes free to horde unopposed, with 0 ENY, even though OVERALL they are the smallest side by far. This is why overall numbers mean nothing.
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A simple yes or no will suffice, I did not ask for your explanation and justification. A yes or no.
........the question of having this same 40+ advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
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A simple yes or no will suffice, I did not ask for your explanation and justification. A yes or no.
........the question of having this same 40+ advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
It is unfair to the side getting ganged regardless of the overall numbers or of which side is getting ganged that day.
If you're worried about "fair".
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It is unfair to the side getting ganged regardless of the overall numbers or of which side is getting ganged that day.
If you're worried about "fair".
I asked for a simple yes or no.
This is not a difficult or complicated question. If we are going to dance around the question then feel free to carry on. If you would like to continue with my request to answer this question with a simple yes or no I would appreciate your honesty.
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And I should point out that this isn't about Bish, it's about all 3 countries...... Whoever has +40 people is going to be attacked on both sides. It's always been like that and we all know it.
My point exactly llogann, when you have the numeric superiority your going to draw attention. I was using bish as an example it seemed it was going that way :aok
This "snowball" effect is not producing the effect I think most of us are after.
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I asked for a simple yes or no.
You aren't a judge and this isn't a court of law.
Logic 101: Many questions cannot be answered "yes" or "no" because they contain implied premises that would lead to further incorrect implications regardless of which way they're answered. The most famous example is the one Hitech mentioned: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" If you never have beat your wife, a literal and honest answer would be "No" (you can't stop what you never started) but this falsely implies that you did beat your wife at one time, and you are still beating her. The only correct answer to that question is "I never have beaten my wife."
The way you phrased your questions asks whether something is unfair, and implies a reason why it should be unfair. The only correct answer is that it is unfair, but for a reason different from what you are implying. There is no shorter or simpler correct answer to that question.
Of coruse if I really have to explain this to you at this point in your life, you probably aren't capable of understanding it.
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You aren't a judge and this isn't a court of law.
Logic 101: Many questions cannot be answered "yes" or "no" because they contain implied premises that would lead to further incorrect implications regardless of which way they're answered. The most famous example is the one Hitech mentioned: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" If you never have beat your wife, a literal and honest answer would be "No" (you can't stop what you never started) but this falsely implies that you did beat your wife at one time, and you are still beating her. The only correct answer to that question is "I never have beaten my wife."
The way you phrased your questions asks whether something is unfair, and implies a reason why it should be unfair. The only correct answer is that it is unfair, but for a reason different from what you are implying. There is no shorter or simpler correct answer to that question.
Of coruse if I really have to explain this to you at this point in your life, you probably aren't capable of understanding it.
oh contrare monfrair :rofl
I knew you would answer this question like this...... but what is good for the goose is not good for the gander?...
........the question of having this same 40+ advantage against the lowest side and both sides ganging the lower side, would that still be fair in your eyes?
There is no twisting.
Say there are 140 rooks, 100 nits, and 100 bish on. Not a single bish and nit are fighting each other, all 200 of them are attacking the 140 rooks. Who has the numerical advantage?
If you say the rooks, you are either considerably less educated than Jethro Bodine, or just being stubborn and refusing to admit plain and obvious fact.
The rooks are outnumbered almost 3-2 in that situation. Giving them a high ENY would only make things worse.
Have you stopped beating your wives? Your logic applies when you want it to, not when it has to.
:rofl
And I did all that without calling you any names, I am rather proud of that......... :lol
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Wabbit is characterizing the defending swarm of uncoordinated players as if it were as single-minded as a chess opponent, but it isn't.
Wabbit also used a team analogy:
If it’s really 11 vs. 11 but 6 of the other guys are just tools and won’t cooperate with their team; if they are stopping to text on their cell phones in the middle of a play; picking their nose and day dreaming; moving off to the sideline and demanding someone come play them 1 vs. 1 football- man to man; if they can’t cooperate and coordinate their efforts like a proper team so that only 5 are really even effective……then yeah. I’ll crush them like insects and I enjoy every minute of it. I’ll break them like a freakin stick. They are stupid, and weak, and are not using the resources available to them and that should be punished mercilessly in the harsh crucible of competition.
However, in my opinion, its the same.
A player or team fails to perform. The player or team endures the consequences of failure.
Individually for the chess player. Collectively for the football players.
Is that fair for the 5 players on that team that were trying to work together? Irrelevant. The team failed. The team loses. All its members lose. I assure you, those 5 players are highly incentivized to find some way to "encourage" the others to improve their teamwork for the next time we play. The pain of getting the snot beat out of them is the mother of improvement. Never underestimate the power of collective punishment. :devil
(Again, I have to be careful because different posters in this thread are asserting different scenarios. In this context I am assuming there are reasonably balanced team number where there are resources available that the TEAM is failing to cooordinate effectively to defend themselves.)
:aok,
Wab
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Wab That was a reply to Urchin so I'd skipped it..
I think your team pov is totally unfair, but... I'm not concerned by it so it's hard to argue beyond 'agree to disagree'. I'm convinced it's wrong because I've been on the winning side enough that I can tell a hollow victory when I see it.
You're an adult so I assume I can just tell you straight-forwardly without jumping thru PC hoops that your (general your) victory's only as great as the opponent. No opponent, no victory. No peril, no victory. I don't actually think of everything in AH so simplisticly but that's the gist of it.
Maybe the root of our disagreement is that I'm naturally competitive but.. I don't want to beat others so much as go further and beat bigger opponents everytime. Beating a straw man country in AH is hollow.. Beating inanimate objects is meaningless. I don't want weak enemies, I want them at their best, to actually put up a challenge.
If I'm leading a 32 man squad and the opposition is nothing but "miscreants", if they aren't up to our challenge then.. the whole lot of planning and gloriously orchestrated execution's basically masterful baiting. Of course we'll win - the opposition's not even trying.
Irrelevant. The team failed. The team loses. All its members lose. I assure you, those 5 players are highly incentivized to find some way to "encourage" the others to improve their teamwork for the next time we play.
I've just as often seen the whole team simply log off. Another incentive might be to log on only when they can safely ignore the "war" big picture and just fly their own "irrelevant" sorties.
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Wabbit,
Sorry about the long lag time, I was putting in my time on the treadmill lol.
I think the biggest difference between us is you take the game a heck of a lot more seriously than I do. It isn't a bad thing at all, I used to be really competitive as well. As I got older I guess that fire sorta left :). Now I just play (anything, not AH quite yet) to have fun. I do try to make sure my opponent is having fun too, at least to the best of my ability.
That is one of the things that usually frustrates me a lot every time I come back to playing AH - I'm still waaaaaaaaay better than most of the folks I run into (and no, I'm not bragging... I think the overall 'fighting ability' has just fallen over the years) so running around in an uber ride makes for unfun 1v1 fights (because there isn't much of a fight, it is over too quick) but handicapping myself by flying the 'poor' rides leads to me getting the everloving crap ganged out of me because I'm not good enough to kill quick enough to avoid it. I've never been able to find that happy medium.
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Wabbit also used a team analogy:
However, in my opinion, its the same.
A player or team fails to perform. The player or team endures the consequences of failure.
Individually for the chess player. Collectively for the football players.
Is that fair for the 5 players on that team that were trying to work together? Irrelevant. The team failed. The team loses. All its members lose. I assure you, those 5 players are highly incentivized to find some way to "encourage" the others to improve their teamwork for the next time we play. The pain of getting the snot beat out of them is the mother of improvement. Never underestimate the power of collective punishment. :devil
(Again, I have to be careful because different posters in this thread are asserting different scenarios. In this context I am assuming there are reasonably balanced team number where there are resources available that the TEAM is failing to cooordinate effectively to defend themselves.)
:aok,
Wab
Your placing the game as a "team sport" with a single leader. This is one many options available. The game can also be played as a single. As well as a number of teams working different areas. Expecting the 3 guys that up to defend a base from a horde " to do better next time" is unrealistic.
Moot's pay-per-view- boxing match covers it well. If you paid $15 and the fight went the limit it was worth the money. If on the other hand it was over in two punches you got screwed. It doesn't matter which guy you were rooting for, the fights over and your out $15.
A lot of people are looking at it as they are getting screwed. Either your getting run over or they are running away, either way the fights suck. In a general sort of way. I admit that there are still fights to be had, but they are becoming fewer and fewer. Just like in your chess match. Your planning the next 4 or 5 moves in your head and your opponent pulls a gun and shoots you right between the eyes. Game over! Wheres the fun in that?
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I mean this as honestly and helpfully as possible.
I believe moot, Urchin, and Fugitive would have more fun spending their time in the DA. Splitting their time between the simple furballing at the lake (never having to worry about strat or bombers) and 1 vs. 1 duels at the other fields.
You may not realize it, but I think thats what you really want. Start yourself a DA club so that you can organize 2 vs 2 and 4 vs 4 for variety.
You can control it and optimized it to be perfectly fair.
The MA is not that controllable. Its a cross between Rave party, the Special Olympics, and the Russian Front. Its never going to conform to your delicate sensibilities.
:salute,
Wab
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Nope, I generally don't like the DA compared to MA or events. DA is to MA and events what chess is to tic-tac-toe.
your delicate sensibilities.
:rofl come on.. you can't seriously say that followed by a solemn :salute
:lol
My delicate sensibilities... I want em twisted and pushed to the max. I'm a thrills and variety junkie Wab.
This whole discussion, as far as I'm concerned and I reckon in good part for Urchin and Fugi as well, is mostly academic. There's certainly intent to fit a shoe to a foot, if it fits, but... There's no tyrannical intentions either. Personally I don't worry a rat's about strat or bombers because they either don't affect me or can be dealt with easily enough. AH isn't rocket science. Its gameplay mechanics are pretty simple and.. we've been at it 10+ years. The only unknown left is in the practical lottery of tactics and strategy. And the monotony of ship shape missions versus disinterested and disorganized defenders is just the kind of variety killer I stay away from, just like DA lake which wasn't quality furballing last time I saw it a few years ago. The same air combat patterns over and over again.
No thanks. The only thing I seriously argue is that there needs to be a better grasp on the basics of dogfighting, for most players. Regardless what they're used for.
-
<snip>
The MA is not that controllable. Its a cross between Rave party, the Special Olympics, and the Russian Front.
<snip>
I think the real challenge here, is to find out which country is which.
Bish = Special Olympics
Rook = Rave party
Nits = Russian Front.
Agreed?
-
I mean this as honestly and helpfully as possible.
I believe moot, Urchin, and Fugitive would have more fun spending their time in the DA. Splitting their time between the simple furballing at the lake (never having to worry about strat or bombers) and 1 vs. 1 duels at the other fields.
You may not realize it, but I think thats what you really want. Start yourself a DA club so that you can organize 2 vs 2 and 4 vs 4 for variety.
You can control it and optimized it to be perfectly fair.
The MA is not that controllable. Its a cross between Rave party, the Special Olympics, and the Russian Front. Its never going to conform to your delicate sensibilities.
:salute,
Wab
Typically when I play, that is where I play.
-
I agree with Moot, people need to learn to fight.
The DA is just a rinse and repeat of tricks. Get the timing down and your a "top gun" whoopie! I'm looking for a fight. If that means I join a group trying to capture a base, or one that defends, that's all I want. I don't want to see nobody defend when I'm attacking. Where's the fun in just walking in and grabbing an undefended base?
- don't want to see the attackers run away after a failed attempt, regroup and try again!
I don't want to see 40-50 guys roll in and totally flatten a base, capture it, then move to some other obscure part of the map to take another. There is not fight in that either.
Tell me your next base attempt, I'll a couple guys together and we TRY to give you a run for your money. That's all I'm looking for.
-
Tell me your next base attempt, I'll a couple guys together and we TRY to give you a run for your money.
Wait.
Did you just assert that the enemy should inform you beforehand of where they plan to attack?
Should they ask, "Mother, May I?"
:rolleyes:,
Wab
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people need to learn to fight.
'People' don't need to do anything, actualy.
The DA is just a rinse and repeat of tricks. Get the timing down and your a "top gun" whoopie!
Clueless! :eek:
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'People' don't need to do anything, actualy.
Absolutely! :aok
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I think fugitive has thunked himself right into a perpetual loop of contradiction. Sometimes "not thinking" is the best medicine.
-
Wab, what's wrong with telling me the next base your going for? You bring your crew, I get a couple guys to up in defense with me, let the better team win, whether it's with tactics, or skill. At least there will be a fight, fun for all right?
People need to learn how to fight so that they don't have to always run from one, or hide in a horde. It's NOT and requirement, just a suggestion.
Where am I contradicting myself? I've always said all I want is a fight. Whether its in the air, or on the ground. Whether it's air to air, or for a base, all I want is a fight.
-
I think fugitive has thunked himself right into a perpetual loop of contradiction. Sometimes "not thinking" is the best medicine.
I think Fugitive has just written himself into a corner! I do respect him and what he has attempted to gain with his mega-postings but I fear that he has gone full circle in his wants and expectations and of what will be, can be, or wishes would be. He has ignored the fact that his most important variable in his equation is the current state of the "adjustable nut behind the keyboard"! The current player base is NOT the same type of folks that started playing this game when it was in beta and throughout AH1. He can blame Hitech for it. Hitech has had to do some things to the game to make it viable to the current market or risk closing the entire company down as a failure. He is an employer and has responsibilities to his employees and himself and his family, and that is keeping the company alive. I'm sorry that we just don't have enough pure WWII enthusiast that want combat to be on a complete HONOR format that was enjoyed only during WWI. The entire education system is mostly to blame as when I was in school during the 60's, we studied the wars in history class but my youngest son (30 years old), doesn't know squat about the war of 1812 or even what happened at Iwo-Jima. Pure WWII combat folks are NOT enough to sustain a company today. We just have to live with the quake war players and hope for the best.
All the Best...
Jay
-
I think Fugitive has just written himself into a corner! I do respect him and what he has attempted to gain with his mega-postings but I fear that he has gone full circle in his wants and expectations and of what will be, can be, or wishes would be. He has ignored the fact that his most important variable in his equation is the current state of the "adjustable nut behind the keyboard"! The current player base is NOT the same type of folks that started playing this game when it was in beta and throughout AH1. He can blame Hitech for it. Hitech has had to do some things to the game to make it viable to the current market or risk closing the entire company down as a failure. He is an employer and has responsibilities to his employees and himself and his family, and that is keeping the company alive. I'm sorry that we just don't have enough pure WWII enthusiast that want combat to be on a complete HONOR format that was enjoyed only during WWI. The entire education system is mostly to blame as when I was in school during the 60's, we studied the wars in history class but my youngest son (30 years old), doesn't know squat about the war of 1812 or even what happened at Iwo-Jima. Pure WWII combat folks are NOT enough to sustain a company today. We just have to live with the quake war players and hope for the best.
All the Best...
Jay
+1 thats about all that can be said, it's a new generation
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Wab, what's wrong with telling me the next base your going for?
Fug,
So apparently your answer is the enemy must ask "Mother, May I?". Unbelievable.
So lets recap....
The enemy must give you sufficient prior notice, before any attack. Where and when.
They must not come in too high (alt monkey), or too low (sneaky NOE).
They must not come with too many planes (damn horde!)
They must not fly faster than Fug can catch, and they must agree not to disengage if they get in to a disadvantageous position.
And for God's sake, they must never blow anything up as that might deprive Fug of a toy.
You have now crossed the line from merely being goofy, to full out tardness.
Good luck with that.
:rofl,
Wab
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Fugitive, your doing it all wrong get your buds together and just tell them on 200 where your going to hit and just go there, trust me.. it works on starting fights all the time :joystick:
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I agree with Moot, people need to learn to fight.
Some also need to realize that not everyone plays the same way, some like to mix it up and some prefer more timid tactics. Who is to say who's playing style is the right way or the wrong way? Certainly not you and I...
ack-ack
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Wab, now you being ridiculous! I never said they MUST tell me where they are going, I said why not tell me where they are going, as in challenging you and your crew against me and who ever else comes along. SAPP does it often enough. Call out where we are going and challange all to fight us. It's always good fun.
AKAK I agree that there are many ways to play the game, I just don't think the "quake"style of the hordes is one of them. I just think it kills more "fun" than it adds to the game.
And yes I agree that "the time are a changing" and I'm working on changing with them.
-
Some also need to realize that not everyone plays the same way, some like to mix it up and some prefer more timid tactics. ack-ack
Which one is you?
-
some peoples tactics drive me off the wall, like ack huggers and runners. for crying out loud I'm in a mustang! so anyway I change my style a bit and find ways to cut them off the base AMBILICAL CORD! :ahand
-
Which one is you?
(http://misfitandmom.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/yawn.jpg)
ack-ack
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ack ack do you have a macro on your keyoboard to type your name every post?
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(http://misfitandmom.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/yawn.jpg)
ack-ack
LOL, I wasn't calling you timid, although I do find it ironic you posted a picture of a puussycat. :D
Jk of course, we have good fights all the time.
In game and on bbs.
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.........Hitech has had to do some things to the game to make it viable to the current market or risk closing the entire company down as a failure. He is an employer and has responsibilities to his employees and himself and his family, and that is keeping the company alive. ..............
How well do you think those changes have been so far?
Seems to me there is not and has not been the numbers that used to play on a regular basis. Would that have anything to do with the direction its been going? The bigger question is, is it too late to turn it around if its not the right direction?
They said that the Titanic couldnt sink........... we know how that ended.
-
less people playing?
no, more arenas to spread people out into. I think anyhow.
At the peak of AH1 we might see 700 people online. But they were all in one arena. Nowadays we still get about 700 split between DA/AvA/MA.
Every night the DA alone has ~50 people in. Back when the MA was not split it was lucky if the DA had 10.
-
Some also need to realize that not everyone plays the same way, some like to mix it up and some prefer more timid tactics. Who is to say who's playing style is the right way or the wrong way? Certainly not you and I...
ack-ack
just to clarify I never said so and dont believe it either
I believe no one stands to lose from knowing a minimum number of things like... stick forward = nose down.. high aoa = more friction ... and so on. What they do with it is of no interest to me
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:rockMUHAHAHAHA Dont ya just love a BISH HORD ! Nice pic btw :devil
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I'm this way about it. Choose your own fights. As far as I'm concerned, I'm excited how this game is progressing. I do stress the term 'game'. Come on Fugitive, let's all just have some fun man and watch where it continues to go.
<S> Coogan
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if you can beat em, join em HAHA! GO BISH HORDES GOOO!!!!
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Wab, now you being ridiculous! I never said they MUST tell me where they are going, I said why not tell me where they are going, as in challenging you and your crew against me and who ever else comes along. SAPP does it often enough. Call out where we are going and challange all to fight us. It's always good fun.
AKAK I agree that there are many ways to play the game, I just don't think the "quake"style of the hordes is one of them. I just think it kills more "fun" than it adds to the game.
And yes I agree that "the time are a changing" and I'm working on changing with them.
Take it easy Fugi. You can surely get a plane up and fly to where the fight is. Sometimes the fight is over before you get there. Sometimes it switches to a nearby base. Let me ask you this, What is the hurry? Do you really need to have alot of kills per hour to have fun? Is it the lack of kills per hour that is draggin down your score that is frustrating you? How many excellent fights per month do you need to be happy?
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I just don't think the "quake"style of the hordes is one of them. I just think it kills more "fun" than it adds to the game.
Problem here is that if 20 people are having fun and you are not, my guess is that the 20 people have more weight against your argument than you do for it.
It may suck getting rolled but it can be a load of fun doing the rolling, believe me. Things in nature tend to balance themselves out, as do things in the game. Mostly.
-
Take it easy Fugi. You can surely get a plane up and fly to where the fight is. Sometimes the fight is over before you get there. Sometimes it switches to a nearby base. Let me ask you this, What is the hurry? Do you really need to have alot of kills per hour to have fun? Is it the lack of kills per hour that is draggin down your score that is frustrating you? How many excellent fights per month do you need to be happy?
I fly mostly on Saturday. Start about 1 in the afternoon, until 10-11 at night. If you look at my score you'll see I spend a lot of time looking for fights. My k/hour is very low. The problem is that a lot of these horde/smash and grab type squads are not looking for a fight. They run in and grab a base and then disappear. Maybe popping up on the other side of the map. To them "which base is next?" isn't only important as "which base is off by itself undefended?"
I'll keep cruising along looking for fights, and take what I can get when I can get them, but to me after 10 years of playing this game, it looks like a symptom of a problem in the game. I hope I'm wrong, and only time will tell. :salute
-
This threads too long to read.
-
These new rules will be instrumental to promoting non-stop fights.
Should also increase frame rate performance by reducing the amount of terrain to generate. Resulting in faster game play.
New arena rules:
Rule-1
LWO Arena Map will consist of three airfields.
1-Rook, 1-Bishop, and 1-Knight.
Rule-2
Airfields shall be equally spaced 2 sectors from each other.
Rule-3
All Airfields will be 10k altitude.
Rule-4
Airfields cannot be captured, de-acked, or damaged in any way.
Rule-5
Map will be reset every two hours.
Rule-6
There will be no radar. All aircraft will be shown on the map and be visible to all players.
This will save some players the extra $14.99 for the second account.
Rule-7
Planes can only receive damage on the front of the cowling.
( In the event that any plane is struck from the six o:clock position or any other direction other than the front. The attacking aircraft will be destroyed and it will be scored as a death.) In short, you will kill-shot yourself.
Engagement Rules.
You will be forced to fight. Anyone sitting in the tower for more than 5 minutes will be scored, as a death and ½ Ho Kill will be awarded to each of the opposing countries.
There shall be no strategies, tactics, or maneuvers allowed.
Your objective is to Ho as many enemy aircraft as possible.
The country with the most Ho’s after two hours shall be deemed the winner.
MAY THE BEST BUNCH OF HO’s WIN.
<S> Bellator
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Rule-1
LWO Arena Map will consist of three airfields.
1-Rook, 1-Bishop, and 1-Knight.
Rule-2
Airfields shall be equally spaced 2 sectors from each other.
Rule-3
All Airfields will be 10k altitude.
Sounds like the "old" FT, over the big lake. I miss that one.
Bob
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well look who's in the horde now over A1! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
this is why i dont take kindly to seemingly "self-righteous" posers,
because 99.9 times out of 100 they turn out to be hypocrites!!!
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss31.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss32.jpg)
-
These new rules will be instrumental to promoting non-stop fights.
Should also increase frame rate performance by reducing the amount of terrain to generate. Resulting in faster game play.
New arena rules:
Rule-1
LWO Arena Map will consist of three airfields.
1-Rook, 1-Bishop, and 1-Knight.
Rule-2
Airfields shall be equally spaced 2 sectors from each other.
Rule-3
All Airfields will be 10k altitude.
Rule-4
Airfields cannot be captured, de-acked, or damaged in any way.
Rule-5
Map will be reset every two hours.
Rule-6
There will be no radar. All aircraft will be shown on the map and be visible to all players.
This will save some players the extra $14.99 for the second account.
Rule-7
Planes can only receive damage on the front of the cowling.
( In the event that any plane is struck from the six o:clock position or any other direction other than the front. The attacking aircraft will be destroyed and it will be scored as a death.) In short, you will kill-shot yourself.
Engagement Rules.
You will be forced to fight. Anyone sitting in the tower for more than 5 minutes will be scored, as a death and ½ Ho Kill will be awarded to each of the opposing countries.
There shall be no strategies, tactics, or maneuvers allowed.
Your objective is to Ho as many enemy aircraft as possible.
The country with the most Ho’s after two hours shall be deemed the winner.
MAY THE BEST BUNCH OF HO’s WIN.
<S> Bellatto
D.A.These new rules will be instrumental to promoting non-stop fights.
Should also increase frame rate performance by reducing the amount of terrain to generate. Resulting in faster game play.
New arena rules:
Rule-1
LWO Arena Map will consist of three airfields.
1-Rook, 1-Bishop, and 1-Knight.
Rule-2
Airfields shall be equally spaced 2 sectors from each other.
Rule-3
All Airfields will be 10k altitude.
Rule-4
Airfields cannot be captured, de-acked, or damaged in any way.
Rule-5
Map will be reset every two hours.
Rule-6
There will be no radar. All aircraft will be shown on the map and be visible to all players.
This will save some players the extra $14.99 for the second account.
Rule-7
Planes can only receive damage on the front of the cowling.
( In the event that any plane is struck from the six o:clock position or any other direction other than the front. The attacking aircraft will be destroyed and it will be scored as a death.) In short, you will kill-shot yourself.
Engagement Rules.
You will be forced to fight. Anyone sitting in the tower for more than 5 minutes will be scored, as a death and ½ Ho Kill will be awarded to each of the opposing countries.
There shall be no strategies, tactics, or maneuvers allowed.
Your objective is to Ho as many enemy aircraft as possible.
The country with the most Ho’s after two hours shall be deemed the winner.
MAY THE BEST BUNCH OF HO’s WIN.
<S> Bellator
minus #5 u already have this, the Dueling Areana
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well look who's in the horde now over A1! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
this is why i dont take kindly to seemingly "self-righteous" posers,
because 99.9 times out of 100 they turn out to be hypocrites!!!
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss31.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss32.jpg)
Oh my, a hoard of five planes when you have a glob of green dots on your field.
-
well look who's in the horde now over A1! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
this is why i dont take kindly to seemingly "self-righteous" posers,
because 99.9 times out of 100 they turn out to be hypocrites!!!
WOW !!! ummmm did you read the thread? Did you see that I have said I'm learning a new way to play? Did you see where I've said it's fight IN the horde or AGAINST the horde. So yes I was fighting WITH the horde. It is after all the way the game is played.
I have been told by many here that the game is not going to change, and that I should change with it. So I have. It has nothing to do with being hypocritical, it's about giving in to the horde and "peer pressure" that the majority of players seem to have done.
So instead of looking like an idiot, you should be welcoming me to the club! <S>
-
Don't forget a reasonable percentage of us that enjoy fighting against superiour numbers just as much as any type of fight.
Not that many people have 'given in' as you put it. S!
-
well look who's in the horde now over A1! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
this is why i dont take kindly to seemingly "self-righteous" posers,
because 99.9 times out of 100 they turn out to be hypocrites!!!
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss31.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv4/wuttzi/ahss32.jpg)
Where's the horde there? Sector bars are almost even lol. That just means both sides have a lot of players on it.
A horde means a situation where the other side has full bar and defending side maybe 1 part of bar or nothing.
- Or in bish case, sector bars are not even enough to project the massive numbers.
-
Where's the horde there? Sector bars are almost even lol. That just means both sides have a lot of players on it.
A horde means a situation where the other side has full bar and defending side maybe 1 part of bar or nothing.
- Or in bish case, sector bars are not even enough to project the massive numbers.
Ya know MrRip, you have constantly been spewing that it's always the Bish. You got a real hard on for em? I've seen it comming from the Rooks and Knights and I just figure that it's our turn in the barrel when it happens and I don't come here to cry about those "other" hordes. Tell ya the truth... I'm so frigging sick and tired of hearing about the hordes, regardless of which country is using/abusing them.
All the Best...
Jay
-
WHINEWHINEWHINEHORDEWHINEWHIN EWHINEHORDEWHINEWHINEWHINE :ahand
....I think I'll talk to the CO about changing our squad name to "The Horde" just to give you sniveling, diaper wearing cry babies something to really whine about.
-
Ya know MrRip, you have constantly been spewing that it's always the Bish.
It is... and always has been. Since the days new players defaulted to bish.
-
Ya know MrRip, you have constantly been spewing that it's always the Bish. You got a real hard on for em? I've seen it comming from the Rooks and Knights and I just figure that it's our turn in the barrel when it happens and I don't come here to cry about those "other" hordes. Tell ya the truth... I'm so frigging sick and tired of hearing about the hordes, regardless of which country is using/abusing them.
All the Best...
Jay
He isn't worth it Jay. He's the Forum Expert. Everything from PC's, to Seeing Bish whorde, to Nuclear Plant expert. But, I only see his drivel when he's quoted by someone else. :aok
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Where's the horde there?
I was there. I wouldn't have called it a horde. It was more of a cherry picking fest, with an occaisional vulch component. A group of 190s and P51s (a F4u, 109, or 38 once in awhile) who come in with altitude and loiter at altitude popping anybody with the gall to attempt to take off and engage.
Certainly not the horde.
-
He isn't worth it Jay. He's the Forum Expert. Everything from PC's, to Seeing Bish whorde, to Nuclear Plant expert. But, I only see his drivel when he's quoted by someone else. :aok
Oh really? What a paradox there, I only post after getting quoted. What would the quote be about then?
If you want to question my knowledge you're free to do so with counter arguments - if you can. Untill that you can stick the personal innuendo where the sun won't shine.
In fact we rarely see Masherbrum post on any topic outside of making personal attacks on others lol :rolleyes:
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Hmm actually I think Mash meant that he has me ignored so he couldn't see my reply. Anyway.. He must have a problem dealing with truth :rolleyes:
-
(http://images6.cpcache.com/product_zoom/354714646v2_400x400_Front_Color-Black.jpg)
-
childish
-
(http://images6.cpcache.com/product_zoom/354714646v2_400x400_Front_Color-Black.jpg)
:rofl
-
childish
I am a child, I'll last a while.
You can't conceive
of the pleasure in my smile.
You hold my hand,
rough up my hair,
It's lots of fun
to have you there.
:)
-
(http://images6.cpcache.com/product_zoom/354714646v2_400x400_Front_Color-Black.jpg)
Wrong? :neener:
-
It is... and always has been. Since the days new players defaulted to bish.
Rip, that is total BS and you know it! I've been a bishtard for years and I've been on the receiving end of many a horde and I will admit that I've been a part of the horde myself from time to time. You just spout that it's only the Bishtards and nobody else and if you seriously believe that... well you need more help than we can give you here! My point is just what the frack do you care if there is a horde? Nothing you post here on the boards is going to change the mentality or the behavior of others as you just don't have the clout and neither does anyone else in this world. It's like those that constantly spout that the rook and knits never fight and we all know that it just isn't true. It might be true from time to time as well as "INSERT THE COUNTRIES HERE" is also true but it's not true ALL of the time. Do I like the horde mentality? NO, but I accept it for what it is and what it does. You seem to also lob in missions as a horde. Just what is your definition of a "Horde" and a "Mission"? If you were at the controls of this game, what would you do to fix the problem of the "HORDE"? I didn't see you spouting off about the old LCA hordes mobbing the Bish when it was happening during the LCA haydays of a few years past. I think it is LCA and I don't even know what it stands for. :) Let's face it Rip... we got em on all sides and we don't have to agree about if they are legitimate or not.
All the Best...
Jay
-
In.
-
He isn't worth it Jay. He's the Forum Expert. Everything from PC's, to Seeing Bish whorde, to Nuclear Plant expert. But, I only see his drivel when he's quoted by someone else. :aok
I'm starting to see this Jay! And TKY for the support old bud :salute We all like to blame it on Karaya but this is one of those things that we just can't blame on you as much as we all would like to! :D BK's now huh? Great bunch of dudes! :salute
All the Best...
Jay
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My point is just what the frack do you care if there is a horde? Nothing you post here on the boards is going to change the mentality or the behavior of others as you just don't have the clout and neither does anyone else in this world.
So you agree that there IS a horde mentality and it's something that should be changed but can't because people are .. well what they are.
-
So you agree that there IS a horde mentality and it's something that should be changed but can't because people are .. well what they are.
Well yes, I will agree that there is definately a "horde" mentality in the game and I don't believe it can be changed by something that you or I can do to change that. We've got that cleared up and now can you answer my other questions that I posted? I'm not trying to be a butthead here really. :)
All the Best...
Jay
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Well yes, I will agree that there is definately a "horde" mentality in the game and I don't believe it can be changed by something that you or I can do to change that. We've got that cleared up and now can you answer my other questions that I posted? I'm not trying to be a butthead here really. :)
All the Best...
Jay
I was on last night and I was tired. Should have been in bed. When I saw knights being horded by both Rooks and Bish I left. Normally I would grab my f4u1a and go for it. Just didn't have the gumption.
-
Well yes, I will agree that there is definately a "horde" mentality in the game and I don't believe it can be changed by something that you or I can do to change that. We've got that cleared up and now can you answer my other questions that I posted? I'm not trying to be a butthead here really. :)
All the Best...
Jay
I was going to refrain from answering your questions because I know you won't like the answer. I'm not saying only bish do it - but simply for historical reasons the mass missions have a legacy on bish side and my personal opinnion is that if there's a country that does stuff like sneak attacks empty fields while superior numbers tie all resistance, it has by majority been bish.
I don't like it when ppl roll fields against A.I. on an online game. Does that answer your questions?
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It's probably time...
http://apothegms.wordpress.com/cartoon-beating-a-dead-horse/ (http://apothegms.wordpress.com/cartoon-beating-a-dead-horse/)
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It's probably time...
http://apothegms.wordpress.com/cartoon-beating-a-dead-horse/ (http://apothegms.wordpress.com/cartoon-beating-a-dead-horse/)
:aok
Good God Jim! I'm a Doctor not a psychotherapist!
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I don't mind seeing huge hordes like that personally. Only time it is a bummer is if I can't get there to horde bust in my Pony O Death. :airplane:
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I was going to refrain from answering your questions because I know you won't like the answer. I'm not saying only bish do it - but simply for historical reasons the mass missions have a legacy on bish side and my personal opinnion is that if there's a country that does stuff like sneak attacks empty fields while superior numbers tie all resistance, it has by majority been bish.
I don't like it when ppl roll fields against A.I. on an online game. Does that answer your questions?
Well Rip, I'm really not that bad of a person and I can see part of your perspective on this. Now I have to beg your pardon on the mass missions thingy as I've seen that LCA stuff create some mass missions that the bish would envy. Now about sneak attacks... Hmmm I gotta think about that for a while... I've seen all do it too. I do see your point about empty fields but why would they be empty? I think you are just looking too hard to justify your hatred for us Bishtards. Well really I can't find a reason to hold your hatred for us against you as I really see your hatred as being really against the change of the game that both you and I found years ago and it has definitely changed from what we first enjoyed.. Long ago we did see honor among the participants and you rarely see it as it has definitely became "Air Quake High". I wish we could turn back time but I know it's not possible and I just accept the game as it is. Well anyways <S> MrRiplEy[H], see ya in the air sometime.
All the Best...
Jay
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Well Rip, I'm really not that bad of a person and I can see part of your perspective on this. Now I have to beg your pardon on the mass missions thingy as I've seen that LCA stuff create some mass missions that the bish would envy. Now about sneak attacks... Hmmm I gotta think about that for a while... I've seen all do it too. I do see your point about empty fields but why would they be empty? I think you are just looking too hard to justify your hatred for us Bishtards. Well really I can't find a reason to hold your hatred for us against you as I really see your hatred as being really against the change of the game that both you and I found years ago and it has definitely changed from what we first enjoyed.. Long ago we did see honor among the participants and you rarely see it as it has definitely became "Air Quake High". I wish we could turn back time but I know it's not possible and I just accept the game as it is. Well anyways <S> MrRiplEy[H], see ya in the air sometime.
All the Best...
Jay
Jay, I would like to stress that absolutely nothing I've said is directed towards you personally. I'm sure you're a great person despite being left unknown due to opposite sides.
We are talking about abstracts of the game and nobody should take it personally.