Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: groundfeeder on June 24, 2010, 07:53:13 AM
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
To back that up, radar today CANNOT see an aircraft in terrain at 65 feet, in many of cases it cant see you at 1000 feet in higher terrain without the aid of a transponder equipped aircraft.
The dar rings you have now overlap fields and you cant even get off of the base without someone seeing you up on THIER radar.Bombers used to be able to fly deeper into enemy territory and the enemy had to at least look for them now they can go directly to them withe the extended range of the rings, and unless you fly the bombers at a higher altitude(time to climb takes away some enjoyment) you cant make a normal run.
I understand that you want to balance things out, but this shifts everything to the furballers.
65 feet is way to low, it slows the game down and it has a decidedly "arcade feel towards it" now.
I can go on and on how it will affect the game and I really hope you take this to heart, PLEASE give us the choice, one arena with the new settings, one without and see how the numbers stack up with similar maps.
The forums are a great way to voice an opinion, but many people dont read them and wont voice an opinion, one way or the other.
PLEASE GIVE US THE CHOICE !!!! one arena with and one without and let the player numbers decide the fate of the new settings
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Nope.
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Nope.
.......................furbal ler.......................... ..... :furious
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A arena with and one without :aok I likes eeet
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
To back that up, radar today CANNOT see an aircraft in terrain at 65 feet, in many of cases it cant see you at 1000 feet in higher terrain without the aid of a transponder equipped aircraft.
The dar rings you have now overlap fields and you cant even get off of the base without someone seeing you up on THIER radar.Bombers used to be able to fly deeper into enemy territory and the enemy had to at least look for them now they can go directly to them withe the extended range of the rings, and unless you fly the bombers at a higher altitude(time to climb takes away some enjoyment) you cant make a normal run.
I understand that you want to balance things out, but this shifts everything to the furballers.
65 feet is way to low, it slows the game down and it has a decidedly "arcade feel towards it" now.
I can go on and on how it will affect the game and I really hope you take this to heart, PLEASE give us the choice, one arena with the new settings, one without and see how the numbers stack up with similar maps.
The forums are a great way to voice an opinion, but many people dont read them and wont voice an opinion, one way or the other.
PLEASE GIVE US THE CHOICE !!!! one arena with and one without and let the player numbers decide the fate of the new settings
You had to start a new thread about it? What does that get you?
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You know you can run the same 25+ man NOE missions of 110s at 10k instead?
Or is your goal not to engage the other player but to simply take base after base without any opposition?
edit: check out the 91st Bomb Group for game-play tips, I may not play as they do but I can respect their direction and their attitude.
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The dar rings you have now overlap fields and you cant even get off of the base without someone seeing you up on THIER radar.Bombers used to be able to fly deeper into enemy territory and the enemy had to at least look for them now they can go directly to them withe the extended range of the rings, and unless you fly the bombers at a higher altitude(time to climb takes away some enjoyment) you cant make a normal run.
OK I'll bite on this part. What exactly about using a BOMBER like a B-17, B-24 or Lancaster from high altitudes makes it NOT a normal run??? NEVER and I mean NEVER were those types of bombers used as "tactical air support". They way I mean that is "strategic" bombers making drops on ground vehicles at less than 1000 feet. So throw me a bone here; I want to know what you call a "normal run".
I understand that you want to balance things out, but this shifts everything to the furballers.
65 feet is way to low, it slows the game down and it has a decidedly "arcade feel towards it" now.
I can go on and on how it will affect the game and I really hope you take this to heart, PLEASE give us the choice, one arena with the new settings, one without and see how the numbers stack up with similar maps.
While I agree that the increase in radar range and lowered height is not the way to go...HTC should have done something differently to limit the way that bombs are armed or used from "strategic" bombers. The only bombers that were and should be used in that way are the B-25's, Ju-88's (although they were not used that way to my knowledge), etc...
I say PERK THE STRAT BOMBERS!!! In fact I am going to start a thread on that right now.
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HT decided things needed to be changed and we all have to respect that decision.
If he gives you a choice you will always take the path of least resistance. How about going back to the drawing board and adapting some of your tactics. You may well find new ways to take bases or put a little more thought into the capture.
Just thinking out aloud here. You send in a fast jabo before your attack, his job is to pork radar.
You need one set of lancs to kill town in 2 passes.
The rest are fighter cover / heavy jabos, 1 person gets assigned VH. The rest tidy up the 10 or so buildings in town. First person to die grabs troops.
You need about 5 guys minimum for the above.
The problem is usually the amount of defenders that up and if you do not have confidence in your fighter pilots capping the field. Once air superiority is lost you have very little chance of making the capture. This IS what it boils down too. Large squads that take the NOE option everytime just DO NOT have the aerial prowess or confidence to hold a cap. By coming in un-detected is your only chance of sneaking a field.
Whilst i'm not an out an out furballer over the years we have taken several fields with the least amount of pilots against superior odds. These captures ARE intense and enjoyable for both teams because there is COMBAT. Seems to me you guys do not want a fight?
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A balanced solution?
Let's make AH able for this:
randomly, half small field, medium field, etc. ---> old radar range and noe settings (or, if You prefer, new radar range and
noe settings);
vh fields ... dunno! i will prefer for vh fields all old radar range and noe settings;
And try this in one arena only.
I'm not for vote but for a rational answer.
:salute
PS
Bruv, I don't want to fly for hours to do nothing while escort bombers and ending always in a massive ho furballing
or in which You are used as bait.
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Large squads that take the NOE option everytime just DO NOT have the aerial prowess or confidence to hold a cap. By coming in un-detected is your only chance of sneaking a field.
Very well said, Bruv.
That said, I think some of them will rise to the challenge. It will be interesting to see just who does meet the challenge head on.
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Very well said, Bruv.
That said, I think some of them will rise to the challenge. It will be interesting to see just who does meet the challenge head on.
not too much of the HO though :lol
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Im not saying to vote, not enough people are on the forums to do so.
I am saying let the two different arenas play themselves out.I cant see what that would hurt.
As far as fighter skills not everyone has the ability to furball as well as others, more so the newbs that will keep this game alive and fill the coffers of htc,they need an outlet to develop thier skills. People dont want to be pounced on every single time they up from THIER field because the overlap covers thier runway.
Low level flying has had its place in every single air war, radar avoidance has been a key part of that since the development of the detection system.
Bombers dont always have the option to have someone go in to pork the radar ahead of them, and the 12-15k typical run now needs to be higher. Newbs and those who cannot bomb as well will have a tougher time at 20k....yeah i know....good who cares?...htc will when people loose interest in a 45 min or better bomb run with no results for the pilot,and thus slowly leave the game.
again not every person in here wants to furball! we all love this game for what it had to offer, taking away options is not a good thing.
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.......................furballer............................... :furious
Ask any AH'er who knows me and see if this statement is correct. I spend about 25% of my time (or less) furballing. However, I have confronted these NOE hordes time and again in defensive operations. If anything, I am what you would call a "map-watcher".
:salute
Way
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Ask any AH'er who knows me and see if this statement is correct. I spend about 25% of my time (or less) furballing. However, I have confronted these NOE hordes time and again in defensive operations. If anything, I am what you would call a "map-watcher".
:salute
Way
:salute my bad.....just seems the people who like this change the best are furballers
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.......................furballer............................... :furious
You say that like it's supposed to be some sort of insult.
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As far as fighter skills not everyone has the ability to furball as well as others, more so the newbs that will keep this game alive and fill the coffers of htc,they need an outlet to develop thier skills.
:confused:
How does a shorter radar distance and higher altitude of radar detection help develop the skills of newer players- in any arena?
Newbs and those who cannot bomb as well will have a tougher time at 20k....yeah i know....good who cares?...htc will when people loose interest in a 45 min or better bomb run with no results for the pilot,and thus slowly leave the game.
I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
:headscratch:
Realistic settings or easier game play? You can't argue for both. "newbs and those who cannot bomb as well" may have a difficult time- but that's the learning curve for everyone and with everything in AH. These same folks will have the same challenge on bombing runs at 12-15K even without the new dar settings. They simply have to learn.
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You had to start a new thread about it? What does that get you?
Attention
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Attention
Yes to bring about the fact that a choice would be nice
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Yes to bring about the fact that a choice would be nice
What is wrong with your idea is that players will vote (most of them) for what is best for THEM and not what is best for the GAME.
HiTech made this change because he felt this was best for HIS game.
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ohh no now I have to fight to take a base cant just sneak in and take it
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Yes to bring about the fact that a choice would be nice
Whining isnt going to help your case. I think its time for all the NOE hoarders rethink their base taking tactics. Because now youre going to be met with resistance. The whole point of AH is to simulate combat. What is combat when you go NOE to an undefended base and capture it with no resistance? Then repeating it all day?
Guess youre going to have to learn to fight for the bases you want captured... Just saying.
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What is wrong with your idea is that players will vote (most of them) for what is best for THEM and not what is best for the GAME.
HiTech made this change because he felt this was best for HIS game.
You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads. why does this bother you? if the players want to furball let em furball, I cant see the problem with this!
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
How realistic is it that 10 troops capture a field? How realistic is it that you have two extra bomber drones? How realistic is it that you can reup within seconds of being shot down? How realistic is it that it never rains? How realistic is it that you can talk to anyone on vox within range?
HTC is rightfully concerned with game play. It is a game after all. They will adjust the game play as needed to enhance the game play for the community.
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You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads. why does this bother you? if the players want to furball let em furball, I cant see the problem with this!
The problem with your suggestion is that the NOE whiners like you are going to go the arena with the old radar settings and wont even try out the new settings. Not trying to be insulting, but thats the truth.
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You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads. why does this bother you? if the players want to furball let em furball, I cant see the problem with this!
what is it about fighting that has you so scared?
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:rofl :rofl :rofl the poor, poor, noe, undefended base taking hoarde is crying like babies.
The Marines have a saying....adapt and overcome.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. The game is what it is. Why can't folks just accept that and move along. If all you know how to do is fly around wanting not to be seen, then maybe a online game is not for you afterall.
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I play all parts of the game and like the new settings, any trained ape could fly under 500 ft. 65ft isn't that hard, i was in a B25H noe and the group i was with was at 30 ft with no problem. just means you actually have to fly the plane now instead of nose on and auto level. Like Waystin i spend a large portion of most my nights jumping from base to base against noe hordes. the only time you can stop the huge raids is to get lucky and guess what base is next, find them early and hope people up when you give the early warning.
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Quote from: groundfeeder on Today at 11:23:04 AM
Yes to bring about the fact that a choice would be nice
You had a choice for years. You and others like you chose to run NOE after NOE and work to avoid combat. As the game is all about combat, your choice has been altered, not removed. You can still play the way you did, it just takes a bit more work.
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Well I like the new settings, I am not a furballer, just not any good at it and I have tried for years, but with that said, I hate for the bombers to be able to come in at 500 feet and destroy a base in fact come to think of it I hate bombers so I spend a lot of my time hunting them, he he he
ab8aac
out
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Only thing I don't like is the extended range. I could careless about the alt. With the extended range of the radar, like someone else said, the radars overlap now between enemy and friendly fields. As soon as u up from a field, there base starts to flash. The old range was plenty big enough and gave anybody enough time to up and intercept anything that was coming in. Especially NOE raids.
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You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads. why does this bother you? if the players want to furball let em furball, I cant see the problem with this!
One arena where opposing players are alerted to the number and direction of an attack and up aircraft to defend a base.One arena where auto ack and buildings are the defenders.Does this sound good to you? :headscratch:
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You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads.
:lol
You're asking everyone to choose which arena would be their favorite... so, yeah they're voting.
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I see it this way......
Furballers.................. love it
Base takers............... Hate it
Gv'rs........................ could give a crap
Fine leave it the way it is, but i will let you know what will happen, jabo and bombing of hangers to end furballs
Endless time on each map till TT
Constant pork runs on dar
Just one more level till arcade style play. Why not just put up whole country in lights so we can see where all the enemy are.
Oh yeah because of the increased ord activity.....Perk bombs!
And for all the "afraid to fight" people.....Why cant you stop the base take? cant get your country together to put up a defense???????? whine to hitech to change the rules some more, you have'nt killed the fun just yet.
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I see it this way......
Furballers.................. love it
Base takers............... Hate it
Gv'rs........................ could give a crap
Fine leave it the way it is, but i will let you know what will happen, jabo and bombing of hangers to end furballs
Endless time on each map till TT
Constant pork runs on dar
Just one more level till arcade style play. Why not just put up whole country in lights so we can see where all the enemy are.
Oh yeah because of the increased ord activity.....Perk bombs!
And for all the "afraid to fight" people.....Why cant you stop the base take? cant get your country together to put up a defense???????? whine to hitech to change the rules some more, you have'nt killed the fun just yet.
NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
(combat scares them)
They would pick a base furthest away from any enemy dar bar as they could find in hopes that nobody would see the base flash.
It isn't that the country being attacked couldn't put up a defense. If someone happened to be looking at that particular remote sector of the map, upped to check on it, and found the dweebs inbound then that NOE mission was doomed.
As has been proven by the whining of players like you, if those NOE dweebs have to fight to get a base they are going to fail at it.
Heck, now that sneaks are almost impossible, it is has been proven that they can and will defend that base and stop that weenie hoard in its tracks.
I personally find it quite funny that all of these so called "Base Takers" are not able to capture a field if it is well defended.
(heck, even slightly defended)
It just goes to show that, outside of surprise and overwhelming numbers, they don't have a clue how to capture a field.
Where is this "strategy and tactics" that I have heard so much from these types? For years now they have pounded their chests saying things like "we are the best base takers in the game" and turns out they had one trick in their bag and w/o it they are all but helpless.
I also disagree with "Base Takers = Hate It".
I am a base taker and I love it.
You should change it to "Unskilled Noob Base Takers = Hate It"
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NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
They would pick a base furthest away from any enemy dar bar as they could find in hopes that nobody would see the base flash.
It isn't that we couldn't put up a defense. If someone happened to be looking at that particular remote sector of the map, upped to check on it, and found the dweebs inbound then that NOE mission was doomed.
As has been proven by the whining of players like you, if those NOE dweebs have to fight to get a base they are going to fail at it.
I personally find it quite funny that all of these so called "Base Takers" are not able to capture a field if it is well defended.
It just goes to show that, outside of surprise and overwhelming numbers, they don't have a clue how to capture a field.
I also disagree with "Base Takers = Hate It".
I am a base taker and I love it.
You should change it to "Unskilled Noob Base Takers = Hate It"
Yup
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NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
(combat scares them)
They would pick a base furthest away from any enemy dar bar as they could find in hopes that nobody would see the base flash.
It isn't that the country being attacked couldn't put up a defense. If someone happened to be looking at that particular remote sector of the map, upped to check on it, and found the dweebs inbound then that NOE mission was doomed.
As has been proven by the whining of players like you, if those NOE dweebs have to fight to get a base they are going to fail at it.
Heck, now that sneaks are almost impossible, it is also been proven that they can and will defend that base and stop that weenie hoard.
I personally find it quite funny that all of these so called "Base Takers" are not able to capture a field if it is well defended.
It just goes to show that, outside of surprise and overwhelming numbers, they don't have a clue how to capture a field.
Where is this "strategy and tactics" that I have heard so much from these types? For years now they have pounded their chests saying things like "we are the best base takers in the game" and turns out they had one trick in their bag and w/o it they are all but helpless.
I also disagree with "Base Takers = Hate It".
I am a base taker and I love it.
You should change it to "Unskilled Noob Base Takers = Hate It"
I'm inclined to agree. The only thing I don't really care for is the range, but, as Uptown said, "Adapt and Overcome".
Oh, and I'm primarily a base taker/defender ("defender" being probably the most important at times)
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You need to read..... I never said vote, again for you, I said TWO ARENAS, one with the new rules, and one without. Let the players have a choice, and see where it leads. why does this bother you? if the players want to furball let em furball, I cant see the problem with this!
While I do think the new changes were too drastic, your idea for two arenas is terrible.
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Just fly offline. God forbid anybody actually put up a defense!! God forbid you actually have ENEMY near you!!!!! ON NO!!!! The horror!
Flying offline you get all the thrill of sneaking up on an undefended base and taking it, but without any of the hassle of worrying about silly things like ENEMIES... or PLANES....
Nothing about NOE missions (before this radar update) was skillful. Nothing about it was brave or heroic or even worthy of notice. It was a nuisance that was abused 99 times out of 100, an attempt at milk running.
Well guess what? You can milk run all you want offline! And you get just as many perks as you deserve (read: none).
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While I do think the new changes were too drastic, your idea for two arenas is terrible.
Why?.........afraid im right?
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Why?.........afraid im right?
Nope, its just terrrrribbllllllllllllleeeeee eeeeeeeee.
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crapola i've just run out of popcorn :uhoh
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afraid im right?
Just because your idea is unpopular does not mean you have discovered some deep hidden truth and those who oppose your idea are drinking the kool-aid. Some ideas are, for lack of a better term, bad.
Yes, the higher NOE would be fuller. Why? Because it's the path of least resistance. That doesn't mean it's better for the game.
Bruv- Milkdud? *offers bag*
Wiley.
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
To back that up, radar today CANNOT see an aircraft in terrain at 65 feet, in many of cases it cant see you at 1000 feet in higher terrain without the aid of a transponder equipped aircraft.
The dar rings you have now overlap fields and you cant even get off of the base without someone seeing you up on THIER radar.Bombers used to be able to fly deeper into enemy territory and the enemy had to at least look for them now they can go directly to them withe the extended range of the rings, and unless you fly the bombers at a higher altitude(time to climb takes away some enjoyment) you cant make a normal run.
I understand that you want to balance things out, but this shifts everything to the furballers.
65 feet is way to low, it slows the game down and it has a decidedly "arcade feel towards it" now.
I can go on and on how it will affect the game and I really hope you take this to heart, PLEASE give us the choice, one arena with the new settings, one without and see how the numbers stack up with similar maps.
The forums are a great way to voice an opinion, but many people dont read them and wont voice an opinion, one way or the other.
PLEASE GIVE US THE CHOICE !!!! one arena with and one without and let the player numbers decide the fate of the new settings
if i'm not mistaken, radar is "line of sight". this means, that as long as there are no tall buildings, or mountains, or other obstruction, then....yes....yes it can and will see you at 65 feet.
the transponder on an airplane BTW is NOT what makes it visible to radar. it is there to help ATC identify you when you :squawk: a code given to you by atc. otherwise, they're usually on 1200.
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Problem with starting to break the arenas up past a manageable state (current era arenas are manageable):
Imagine HTC being the herd dogs and the customers are the herd. The role of the herd dogs is to manage and maintain profitable game play by keeping the herd together. Now imagine the herd dogs letting the herd break into smaller and smaller sub herds. Problems start when the herd dogs start losing their ability to manage the herd as effectively. Soon there are small herds running all around and no dogs to herd them into the profitable game play.
Or something like that.
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Fine leave it the way it is, but i will let you know what will happen, jabo and bombing of hangers to end furballs
already happens
Endless time on each map till TT
pretty much already happens
Constant pork runs on dar
already happens
Oh yeah because of the increased ord activity.....Perk bombs!
most the tards that go for the Dar are in 190's and use canons anyways so they can run like hell after they hit it.
And for all the "afraid to fight" people.....Why cant you stop the base take? cant get your country together to put up a defense???????? whine to hitech to change the rules some more, you have'nt killed the fun just yet.
As pointed out, when the dedicated NOE squad tards have a large map they run to the most unpopulated section. By the time someone actually pans out to see that portion of the map it's usually to late, they then run to the complete other side of the map and repeat.
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You had to start a new thread about it? What does that get you?
flamed :devil
ack-ack
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NEVER and I mean NEVER were those types of bombers used as "tactical air support". .
Operation Cobra saw the use of 8th AAF B-17s, B-24s and B-26s being used in the tactical support role to support the break out from Normandy.
ack-ack
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Why?.........afraid im right?
Anytime a controversial arena decision is made they should split the arenas eh? So after 4 controversial decisions we'll have to have 8 arenas to accomodate all the different combinations of settings. YEAH GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!
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And for all the "afraid to fight" people.....Why cant you stop the base take? cant get your country together to put up a defense???????? whine to hitech to change the rules some more, you have'nt killed the fun just yet.
From the mouth of the lion himself.
A few simple thoughts.
1. Best way to win a war is to hit the enemy where they ain't.
2. Best way to have fun in a combat orientated game is to have combat.
3. Attacking undefended targets is not combat even though it is the best strategy to win.
4. This is a game and not work or war. Expecting some one to be on defense with no idea if a strike is coming is not a legitimate expectation. Hence, you should defend your field is not a legitimate argument if it requires some one to do a very boring act with no guaranty of combat.
5. Defense now has more warning on a strike and time to organize a defense, so now we are more likely to have an offense and defense playing against each other instead of 2 offenses playing by themselves.
Hence these changes have nothing to do with fur-ball vs tool shedding. But simply about putting offense and defense on a more = level.
HiTech
ack-ack
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From the mouth of the lion himself.
ack-ack
Hmm, his breath smells of peperoni. He must have got those pizza's. :D
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Only thing I don't like is the extended range. I could careless about the alt. With the extended range of the radar, like someone else said, the radars overlap now between enemy and friendly fields. As soon as u up from a field, there base starts to flash. The old range was plenty big enough and gave anybody enough time to up and intercept anything that was coming in. Especially NOE raids.
Actually, the warning range has not changed. Yes you can see them on radar, but the base won't start to flash until they get well within the dar ring.
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People,
If you want to take undefended bases, there are already two arenas for you
1) Offline (hey save yourself 15 bucks)
2) very late at night in the DA (but BillyD and I might fight ya in our ar234s)
no need for all this drama.
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.......................furballer............................... :furious
Hey!!! Congratulations, Waystin. :aok :banana:
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I really don't like the new radar either... Go ahead...
FLAME!
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Well, got a good bit of responses, and the most logical one is to adapt.
I guess i was frustrated by the change, and you are right, this could be a good thing.
By the way.....i can fight also, fairly well as a matter of fact! I just liked to change it up every once in awhile.
:salute :salute to all who responded......going to go adapt. ill just need more beer to help :bolt:
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Operation Cobra saw the use of 8th AAF B-17s, B-24s and B-26s being used in the tactical support role to support the break out from Normandy.
ack-ack
Very true... however the heavy bombers were @ 15,000 feet IIRC. I believe that Reschke was referring to tactical operations under 1,000 feet with those aircraft. :salute
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The same can be said about guys who fly their fighters between 15k and 20k all the time.
They sit way up high and pounce on the lower alt planes that are actually fighting each other.
Avoiding fights?? Yup.
I especially love the alt monkeys that constantly disrupt a good CV vs base low alt battle.
Apparently they don't really want to "engage" anyone either. :bolt:
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NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
(combat scares them)
They would pick a base furthest away from any enemy dar bar as they could find in hopes that nobody would see the base flash.
It isn't that the country being attacked couldn't put up a defense. If someone happened to be looking at that particular remote sector of the map, upped to check on it, and found the dweebs inbound then that NOE mission was doomed.
As has been proven by the whining of players like you, if those NOE dweebs have to fight to get a base they are going to fail at it.
Heck, now that sneaks are almost impossible, it is has been proven that they can and will defend that base and stop that weenie hoard in its tracks.
I personally find it quite funny that all of these so called "Base Takers" are not able to capture a field if it is well defended.
(heck, even slightly defended)
It just goes to show that, outside of surprise and overwhelming numbers, they don't have a clue how to capture a field.
Where is this "strategy and tactics" that I have heard so much from these types? For years now they have pounded their chests saying things like "we are the best base takers in the game" and turns out they had one trick in their bag and w/o it they are all but helpless.
I also disagree with "Base Takers = Hate It".
I am a base taker and I love it.
You should change it to "Unskilled Noob Base Takers = Hate It"
They have no "strategy" or "tactics", all they have is "numbers". It's been fun busting up Low level mass buff raids. It's even better when you kill the goon (or three) first and then close in on the buffs.
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I'm guessing the OP is one of the many WWII radar experts around here whining about the new radar settings. What's truly amazing is if anyone tries to introduce something that actually is realistic these same experts do more than whine and say, it's "just a game".
Wonder how these "experts" would feel with radar rings that reached 150 to 320 miles from center.
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I'm guessing the OP is one of the many WWII radar experts around here whining about the new radar settings. What's truly amazing is if anyone tries to introduce something that actually is realistic these same experts do more than whine and say, it's "just a game".
Wonder how these "experts" would feel with radar rings that reached 150 to 320 miles from center.
How "realistic" is 65'??
I haven't read the preceding pages and I really have no idea.
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Fine leave it the way it is, but i will let you know what will happen, jabo and bombing of hangers to end furballs
Endless time on each map till TT
Constant pork runs on dar
Just one more level till arcade style play. Why not just put up whole country in lights so we can see where all the enemy are.
Oh yeah because of the increased ord activity.....Perk bombs!
And for all the "afraid to fight" people.....Why cant you stop the base take? cant get your country together to put up a defense???????? whine to hitech to change the rules some more, you have'nt killed the fun just yet.
That's the spirit! Sounds like you'll be just fine.
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl not realistic he says lolz
heres your realistic ww2 radar
(http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/images3/41.jpg)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl not realistic he says lolz
heres your realistic ww2 radar
(http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/images3/41.jpg)
Alert Frankfurt, raid inbound!! :D
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What lute said was right on the money in my opinion.
"NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
(combat scares them)
They would pick a base furthest away from any enemy dar bar as they could find in hopes that nobody would see the base flash.
It isn't that the country being attacked couldn't put up a defense. If someone happened to be looking at that particular remote sector of the map, upped to check on it, and found the dweebs inbound then that NOE mission was doomed."
If you can only do it one way, its time you went back to school. There are many many ways to succeed.
Taking varying amounts of skill, teamwork, and timing.
The NOE attack was just the simplest of all of them to learn.
HT has spoken, this is the way it is. Make the best of it.
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What lute said was right on the money in my opinion.
"NOE hoard weenies would attack a field that had the greatest chance of NOT being seen.
(combat scares them)
Combat scares alot of guys in this game.
Most of them tend to fly above it.
Less chance of actually having to "engage" someone in a fight.
MMM sounds familiar.
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:salute my bad.....just seems the people who like this change the best are furballers
Furballers could give a rats arse what the radar settings are ... furballers just aren't whining about it.
hitech already said that his decision was not based on a "furballer" or "land grabber" bias. He finally realized, either by his own eyes, or by "exit" stats that the NOE smash and grab was hurting gameplay so he is making a change that he feels is best for his bottom line.
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BOING
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I havent been in game yet since the change, but it sounds good to get rid of the NOEs. No maybe people will actually coordinate a base take with high alt buffs and fighter escort, with perhaps some gv action thrown in.
I do agree with the OP on one thing though. Be ready for all those guys that were in the weeds to come to the target base intent on destroying the FHs.
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Hey!!! Congratulations, Waystin. :aok :banana:
Funny ain't it? It took me hours to get my Wirbel convinced I would not leave her for some slinky flying thing! :lol
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I wonder if the handfull of people suggesting players leave the game (on this and other threads) would be so keen to recommend that step if it was their livelyhood, and not someone elses.
Totally out of order.
Not your place or right to do so.
You have however convinced me to not bother re-instating my account again.
Be interesting to see how HT feels about players suggesting other players leave the game?
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You have however convinced me to not bother re-instating my account up again.
Don't take yourself so seriously. Its a GAME.
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I wonder if the handfull of people suggesting players leave the game (on this and other threads) would be so keen to recommend that step if it was their livelyhood, and not someone elses.
Totally out of order.
Not your place or right to do so.
You have however convinced me to not bother re-instating my account again.
Be interesting to see how HT feels about players suggesting other players leave the game?
Bye bye.
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I wonder if the handfull of people suggesting players leave the game (on this and other threads) would be so keen to recommend that step if it was their livelyhood, and not someone elses.
Totally out of order.
Not your place or right to do so.
You have however convinced me to not bother re-instating my account again.
Be interesting to see how HT feels about players suggesting other players leave the game?
Bull.
You CAN try and say that a few posts on this forum are keeping you from re-subscribing, but you would be deceitful in doing so.
Really base (and childish) manipulative tactics there Kev.
I doubt a statement like that would change HiTechs thinking on the matter in the slightest. He has been at this far too long to not see your post for what it is.
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Nope.
+1
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:rofl :rofl :rofl the poor, poor, noe, undefended base taking hoarde is crying like babies.
The Marines have a saying....adapt and overcome.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. The game is what it is. Why can't folks just accept that and move along. If all you know how to do is fly around wanting not to be seen, then maybe a online game is not for you afterall.
+1 (ummm, add improvise, they say that too! lmao)
Changeup
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Bull.
You CAN try and say that a few posts on this forum are keeping you from re-subscribing, but you would be deceitful in doing so.
Really base (and childish) manipulative tactics there Kev.
I doubt a statement like that would change HiTechs thinking on the matter in the slightest. He has been at this far too long to not see your post for what it is.
AH won't stand or fall on my account re-activation or not.
Trying to defend players suggesting other players to leave is WRONG, there is no defence, end of.
In the other thread I cleary stated that reasons , it was nothing to do with the game, all to do with the attitudes displayed by a small group of players.
Be less chance of a PNG if I stick to Aircraft and Vehicles, and the O' club forums.
[edited] To remove comments probably would have broken one of the rules.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
Lute et al.
You guys really need to take a break from these threads imho. You know i like you personally but lets be honest...you guys have been typing opposite opinions to the ones you are insulting for as long as i can remember. You did it hoping to get hitech to change his arena rules to disfavor those who play the game differently then you do. No problem with that...but now you are calling folks weanies, skilless because they enjoy a different aspect of the game then you do. One that it appears you cant comprehend...i know you are smarter then that...
Let me try to explain this in a fashion that may make sense...
Some folks like "accomplishing" something....its that simple. Repetitive air combat with little variation does not appeal to them. "Capturing" a field gives them a sense of accomplishment. You can characterize it as "toolshedding" or "milkrunning" to try to demean it but to them it is a satisfying feeling. The older system allowed this to occur. The new system (especially over land) quite frankly doesn't. Of course this is Hitech's game and he can do whatever he wants...but since he is running a business i'll guess he cares about how ALL subscribers feel to an extent. In a pure "fiter" system there is not really any way to accomplish much...for example compare this to other online games where you "level" up or acquire extra abilities. I'm not saying this view is correct but it is a legitimate point of view. I can't fathom the fun of bombing but it doesn't mean i should demand that aspect of the game be removed OR that it be regulated in such a restrictive fashion that it becomes untenable.
In the old system "furballing" was always available...but it required at times a lot of "work" and "planning" as well. Fights weren't always available...basetaking was often a major objective. I can see why Hitech may have wanted to make some changes. I don't see why you feel the need to insult and belittle those who aren't happy with them. :salute
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Far as Im concerned.
New field dar settings are fine
Old field dar settings were fine.
A no feild dar setting would be fine.
Just so long as the icon shows up in the right color when Im in range
Though if we are going to have dar I think field dar should be reduced and there should be radar stations instead for picking up aircraft further out
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I see dead people... :noid
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Lute et al.
You guys really need to take a break from these threads imho. You know i like you personally but lets be honest...you guys have been typing opposite opinions to the ones you are insulting for as long as i can remember. You did it hoping to get hitech to change his arena rules to disfavor those who play the game differently then you do. No problem with that...but now you are calling folks weanies, skilless because they enjoy a different aspect of the game then you do. One that it appears you cant comprehend...i know you are smarter then that...
Let me try to explain this in a fashion that may make sense...
Some folks like "accomplishing" something....its that simple. Repetitive air combat with little variation does not appeal to them. "Capturing" a field gives them a sense of accomplishment. You can characterize it as "toolshedding" or "milkrunning" to try to demean it but to them it is a satisfying feeling. The older system allowed this to occur. The new system (especially over land) quite frankly doesn't. Of course this is Hitech's game and he can do whatever he wants...but since he is running a business i'll guess he cares about how ALL subscribers feel to an extent. In a pure "fiter" system there is not really any way to accomplish much...for example compare this to other online games where you "level" up or acquire extra abilities. I'm not saying this view is correct but it is a legitimate point of view. I can't fathom the fun of bombing but it doesn't mean i should demand that aspect of the game be removed OR that it be regulated in such a restrictive fashion that it becomes untenable.
In the old system "furballing" was always available...but it required at times a lot of "work" and "planning" as well. Fights weren't always available...basetaking was often a major objective. I can see why Hitech may have wanted to make some changes. I don't see why you feel the need to insult and belittle those who aren't happy with them. :salute
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Falcn...
I am also pretty durn sure that HiTech saw how prevalent massive NOE hoards had become, found that it was unhealthy, and decided to do something about it.
All he would have to do is fly for a few hours on any given night to see this.
I seriously doubt that he made the changes because any post that was put up on the forum.
Why can't capturing a field involve combat? What about THAT can't you comprehend? Why does avoiding combat seem like a good thing to you in a combat game?
As I have said time and again one of my favorite things about this game is capturing bases. I am constantly orchestrating field captures on the knit side.
Thing is... I don't try to AVOID the enemy when doing so.
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The players do have a CHOICE....
I pay for 3 games right now...
WW2OL
iracing
and
AcesHigh
The wife has been on my butt for sometime now to cut back on the gaming $$$$.......
HTC is making the choice easier to pick.
CAV
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Ahh yes the culling of the herd has begun ;)
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double post
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Falcn...
I am also pretty durn sure that HiTech saw how prevalent massive NOE hoards had become, found that it was unhealthy, and decided to do something about it.
Why can't capturing a field involve combat? What about THAT can't you comprehend? Why does avoiding combat seem like a good thing to you in a combat game?
As I have said time and again one of my favorite things about this game is capturing bases. I am constantly orchestrating field captures on the knit side.
Thing is... I don't try to AVOID the enemy when doing so.
Maybe a rebuttal would be why a can't capturing a field involve a path of least resistance?? In the military, there are covert operations that are done with least resistance. So why not here?
It just seems that (let the dust settle), base taking will slow down and yes, I see this as a furballers dream. As much as I love to furball, there are many dynamics of this game that should be respected and not belittled.
IMO
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Maybe a rebuttal would be why a can't capturing a field involve a path of least resistance?? In the military, there are covert operations that are done with least resistance. So why not here?
It just seems that (let the dust settle), base taking will slow down and yes, I see this as a furballers dream. As much as I love to furball, there are many dynamics of this game that should be respected and not belittled.
IMO
Since HTC has taken away the NOE (AWESOME BTW) we need Special Operations . I respectfully request a SEAL Assault team (for port "recon", direct action), 2 battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment (airfield take-downs, quick reaction force) and 3rd Marines MEU (for massive port take-downs via amphib assault-armored), and 3rd ACR (Armored Cav Regiment) 1st, 2nd and 3rd Squadrons (lightning fast armor)
Changeup
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Falcn...
I am also pretty durn sure that HiTech saw how prevalent massive NOE hoards had become, found that it was unhealthy, and decided to do something about it.
All he would have to do is fly for a few hours on any given night to see this.
I seriously doubt that he made the changes because any post that was put up on the forum.
Why can't capturing a field involve combat? What about THAT can't you comprehend? Why does avoiding combat seem like a good thing to you in a combat game?
As I have said time and again one of my favorite things about this game is capturing bases. I am constantly orchestrating field captures on the knit side.
Thing is... I don't try to AVOID the enemy when doing so.
Lute
There is no reason why it can't involve combat but i feel you may be too myopic in your view...
I guess the first concept i would challenge is why is YOUR definition of combat the only one you recognize? For example in Tribes, Brothers at Arms, and other fighting sims there is an option to be a sniper. many would criticize these folks as "cowards" "gutless" but the bottom line is being sneaky and planning "path of least resistance" "less likely to die" attacks is more appealing to some then brute force. In World of Warcraft and Everquest one can become more powerful by commerce and trading then they could ever hope to by simply running around and collecting and killing things. Guys who prefer "the fight" are quick to denigrate those who don't. Both styles of play in my opinion are legitimate...you seem to view the one that results in a large clash as the only style that should be appropriate.
Again, i love a good furball (my favorite are cv fights) as much as anyone else but the current setup will lend itself to hordes rolling bases as the major way to effect land grabs. I use noe's to try and gain back land that we have lost or to keep an enemy off balance. I rarely use them to "roll" other countries.
Not to be personal here but lets use the last Titanic Tuesday as a prime example. I forget the airbase numbers but I have the film. I logged on at 9pm est to see that the knits had taken alot of the bishop western territory. I saw two full nit darbars rolling a base. Nits were swarming us with fiters and dropping the fhs frequently with buffs. Bish were clearly outnumbered and having trouble getting alt to oppose the waves of buffs coming in. Yet you were buzzing around in a 262 picking guys off??? I bit my tongue but found it ironic having already read several of your posts in the "new radar" thread. Is that the fun aircombat fight you are advocating? Are 262s the type of plane you are advocating to encourage game enjoyment when you already outnumber the side you are fighting?? Rooks/nits were barely fighting but that is the fight you chose to be in. Now I'm not here to whine about being ganged etc etc...thats just part of the game. The only option we had was to up 8 p51s and drop fhs at the base you guys were flying from. So then we had fhs dead at BOTH airfields and that is how the rest of the night went. Personally I can't stand that game play but there weren't any other options left to counter being heavily outnumbered by a country who seemed determined to roll us. Having an option to NOE would have been a reasonable counter to keep the nits off balance imho (because they weren't using any other bases...they were all concentrated at just one). Currently "porking" and "dropping fhs" are the only options we will have when we are being rolled.
I see guys typing about how we "will adapt" etc. No worries...this is not a new sitaution we find ourselves in...this is the way it was years ago and porking ord, killing troops, dropping fhs etc is what you must do to prevent land grabbing. To me having to do those things are the furthest things away from aircombat i can imagine and i hope that is not where we end up.
Hitech has been right in the past so i will wait and see how this plays out...these are just my opinions on what will evolve. The only winners here are the guys who like to pad their fiter scores by hanging arouond the edges of these battles picking off trgts and landing their kills. They truly don't care about the capture as much as having guys occupied so they can become targets of opportunity. You know the type of pilot I am referring to and I don't typically place you or your squad in that category. :salute
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Falconwng:
Nothing has happend that prevents guys from working together and accomplishing something. It just means that a different tactic needs to be used or the tactic itself is just a bit more challenging now. ( Have the guys practice staying below 65ft.)
I have been on both sides of the typical NOE raid. I know what goes on during these raids. I have witnessed guys in the mission screaming on vox "Ho that guy coming to town". "I have no ammo, I'm going to ram him". Being on the other side of the raid, I have been victim of the sarcastic <S> from the raiders being I was the only one upping trying to defend, but they got the capture. Totally classless if you ask me.
These guys you claim to be "elitists" and score padders have shown more class through the years than these guys smash grabbing bases. They don't pound their chests if they get the kill on 2038587 or vulched 20 easy kills. They throw a <S> to guys no matter how new they are to the game, but how well they try. I have witnessed many of them offering help, some devoting time for me in the TA to give me pointers.
Ever been on a mission where you have that poor 2 weeker drive the only goon and see what happens to him when he drops troops over the field? Has any armchair general that leads these missions say " its ok, lets meet in the TA and I will show you how to drop troops". Heck no, that guy gets berated and the armchair general is too busy trying to organize the next horde to piss off the other side.
So I ask..who are the true "elitists" here?
If HTC implemented a "no vulch" rule, I would be fine. although I like a good vulch now and then, I understand too much of it upsets game play. Same with spawn camping etc.
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If HTC implemented a "no vulch" rule, I would be fine. although I like a good vulch now and then, I understand too much of it upsets game play. Same with spawn camping etc.
Personally, I have no issue with vulching and dont see why anyone would. If im in a fight/furball and we push the fight over the enemy base and establish a cap on it imo we earned the vulch and eventually the base. Same goes for if i get forced back over my own field. I really dont see the point in not vulching someone who's trying to take off from a base you're trying to CAP. What are we suppose to do? "Honorably" let them roll and shoot them when they're doing about 170-200mph? Or do we wait 'til they're at least 5k agl and 300mph? :headscratch:
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Personally, I have no issue with vulching and dont see why anyone would. If im in a fight/furball and we push the fight over the enemy base and establish a cap on it imo we earned the vulch and eventually the base. Same goes for if i get forced back over my own field. I really dont see the point in not vulching someone who's trying to take off from a base you're trying to CAP. What are we suppose to do? "Honorably" let them roll and shoot them when they're doing about 170-200mph? Or do we wait 'til they're at least 5k agl and 300mph? :headscratch:
Just using that as an example. There is an uproar that the NOE tactic is gone, which in fact its not. Its just alot harder now. In the same effect, theoretically if HTC made vulching alot harder by I dunno..increasing ack at a field etc. I wouldn't throw a fit like some did in these threads.
On a side note, I hear lots of people saying this will end up in FHs being shut down. I agree for every action, there is a reaction. Perhaps this now means that you will get more of a horde shutting down bases. That consequence can be stomached more than having to deal with the guys flying around trying not to be detected.
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On a side note, I hear lots of people saying this will end up in FHs being shut down. I agree for every action, there is a reaction. Perhaps this now means that you will get more of a horde shutting down bases. That consequence can be stomached more than having to deal with the guys flying around trying not to be detected.
Ohh look huge dar popping in sector x x. Ohh look its now it is in in sector x y.
Compared to ohh look base flashing 3 min later town down.
no, no difference at all. :lol
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In the same effect, theoretically if HTC made vulching alot harder by I dunno..increasing ack at a field etc. I wouldn't throw a fit like some did in these threads.
Not sure if you've been around long enough but HTC has infact doubled the ack and made it harder to kill. I honestly cant remember whether or not there was an uproar over it. Im not sure if the aim was directed at vulchers or the base sneakers. Personally, I think HTC just wants better game play. We may not always agree with what he does (I know I definitely didnt agree with a lot of them) but the company has been around long enough to where we should just stfu and assume the guy knows what he's doing.
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While I also have been known to enjoy a good vulch from time to time. For the most part I prefer to let them get wheels up, 200 mph, and out of the base ack.
Beyond that, if you don't want to get shot, up from a different field, and go vulch the vulchers.
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My definition of "Combat" includes actually fighting someone. This being a MMOG, that would involve fighting actual people.
Sense of accomplishment? Where are all the "lets just give everyone a trophy" people?
The new dar settings aren't about preventing NOE's, they are about trying to make it easier to find a fight. A side consequence may be making NOE harder but it should be seen as a challenge instead of a discouragement.
How's that for a sense of accomplishment?
wrongway
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Ok... what has it been... 4 or 5 days? I have read the posts of those that hate the change, and those that like it. For what it is worth... here is my opinion and a few facts:
1) Tower Based Warning Range did not change... it is still 12 miles to make a base flash. So unless you are watching the map, the new radar settings wont tell you about an inbound strike.
2) Ok... the radar rings overlap. In many cases they run right up to adjacent bases. But lets look at this for a moment. Just take notice about which direction you take off from and dont lift into an active enemy dar ring if you can avoid it. Also, with overlapping radar rings, it is a huge advantage to defenders... meaning that you have to drop the radar at several bases now in order to make a path through the radar. I dont see a problem with this.
3) Are the new settings historically accurate? No.. but the old ones werent either. Neither is "Dar Bar". Nor is the ability to refuel and rearm in 30 seconds, repair a smoked turret or busted track on a tank instantly with a single box of supplies without getting out of the tank, spawning instantly at a spawn point in a GV or LVT, flying in F3 Mode in a bomber, autotakeoff, stall limiter, the ability to see the radar while flying, the bombsights we use, etc... etc... etc.
Why are these things NOT historically accurate? To make the game more playable. So I dont think that arguing that the radar settings are not "Historically Accurate" is valid. If this game were 100% historically accurate, there would be far less players than there are now... and many aspects of it that just simply would not be worth doing at all.
4) NOE raids had become more of the standard for many players when it came to attacking a base with the intent to take it. Unfortunately, in most cases an NOE raid is done to avoid combat with the defending forces rather than engage and defeat them. Over and over again, HiTech has adjusted things to PROMOTE combat rather than allow people to avoid it. This isnt a game about who can be the sneakiest base taker. If you want to take bases, there are countless ways to do it without avoiding combat. On that note, the bases should REALLY start to flash when being shelled by a CV group, if not at a set range that the CV gets within... but I digress. I enjoy fighting over bases, but I dont care for doing it with no opposition. I want defenders to come up and fight. That is what makes playing this game fun! So we all know WHY the radar settings were changed, and I dont see them going back to the way they were happening any time soon, if at all. To sum this point up, bases can still be taken if you so choose to take them. But the tactic of massive, frequent NOE raids by heavy bombers are a thing of the past. Change your tactics.
5) If you want to fly in an arena that has the old radar settings, and radar settings that vary from map to map... fly in the AvA. Some good sticks fly in there, and the maps are awesome. Also, give FSO a try. For most FSO's, we dont even have radar... friendly OR enemy. Hell... FSO is the main reason I play Aces High now. And the ride I fly in the MA during the week is usually the one I will be in on Friday night in FSO so I can get some practice in. So I see no reason for a separate arena to see which way people like better. Last time I checked, while our voices are heard by HTC, this isnt a democracy. We dont have a vote, unless HTC chooses to give us one.
So... if anyone cares... as you may have guessed, I am fine with the new radar settings. I tend to follow this outlook... "It is what it is". Whining and complaining isnt going to change it... and I personally dont see a valid reason that has been presented since the change that would warrant a change back to the old system. We need to turn the page, and get back to the business at hand, which is killing little cartoon pilots, in their little cartoon planes. And business is a BOOMin!
:salute to you all.
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Are you honestly trying to compare sneaking a massive hoard NOE to an undefended base well away from any enemy dar bar to being a Sniper?
To be fair, I have run NOE base sneaks in the past. I will probably use that tactic in the future. Those types of missions have their place.
Even HiTech agreed that it is a safe tactic that is tactically sound.
The difference is I would run that type of mission MAYBE one or two out of 20.
I feel that the changes made happened because there are some large squads that use that tactic 18-19 out of 20. I also understand why you posted as you did. We have had this discussion many times over the years in many threads.
It was your squad that really started this style of game play. (to be fair I should say made it "common" as opposed to "started") There is nothing that the current crop of 'mega-squads' is doing that wasn't done by the BOPs in years past. I wonder if they even know that they have you and yours to thank for this?
Need I remind you of the following post/thread...
FALCONWING: Please do not confuse my post as bop bashing. I have never stated the Bops wanted to always be on the country side with numbers. Nore do I belive game play like the Bops "win the war" stratagy is a bad thing. Nor do I belive coradinating tatics as a bad thing.
(edited for space but click the link and read it all. Good stuff here)
HiTech
The NOE hoard style of base capture was taken to excess and thus HiTech felt the need to step in and do something about it.
The players brought it on themselves.
And while it is true I was flying my last hop of the night in a mass of Knits last TT the base being attacked was also very well defended and it was a hard fought battle.
There is no correlation between that and the topic at hand. The knits didn't try to swarm the field NOE and when the base got defended moved on to another field across the map. IIRC I did help start that mass of knits rolling bases and I was involved with orchestrating quite a few captures earlier that night. That particular 262 run was my last of the evening and I was just having fun with a squaddie in a large fight.
I will also add that not one of the 6-8 fields I helped the knits to capture were taken using NOE swarms and surprise.
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Maybe a rebuttal would be why a can't capturing a field involve a path of least resistance?? In the military, there are covert operations that are done with least resistance. So why not here?
It just seems that (let the dust settle), base taking will slow down and yes, I see this as a furballers dream. As much as I love to furball, there are many dynamics of this game that should be respected and not belittled.
IMO
As HT said, while the NOE's are strategically the best way to go about it it is nowhere near being called combat, and as the game is about combat he made the change.
I don't see why this would slow down the base capture. Sure it will be a bit harder to capture a base, but better planing and organization of an attacking force will always win out over a defense that is just thrown up. After all there are no squads that do nothing but sit together in the tower and all move to the next base to be under attack to add some organized defense to.
Lute
There is no reason why it can't involve combat but i feel you may be too myopic in your view...
I guess the first concept i would challenge is why is YOUR definition of combat the only one you recognize? For example in Tribes, Brothers at Arms, and other fighting sims there is an option to be a sniper. many would criticize these folks as "cowards" "gutless" but the bottom line is being sneaky and planning "path of least resistance" "less likely to die" attacks is more appealing to some then brute force. In World of Warcraft and Everquest one can become more powerful by commerce and trading then they could ever hope to by simply running around and collecting and killing things. Guys who prefer "the fight" are quick to denigrate those who don't. Both styles of play in my opinion are legitimate...you seem to view the one that results in a large clash as the only style that should be appropriate.
Those games are all geared toward a "goal". Capture the fly, beat the big boss and so on. While here we do have the "win the war" but the owner/designer of this game has said that is just a path the create combat which is what the game is all about.
Webster's defines combat as..
1. An engagement fought between two military forces.
2. The act of fighting; any contest or struggle.
3. A fight; a contest of violence; a struggle for supremacy.
4. An engagement of no great magnitude; or one in which the parties engaged are not armies.
Doesn't say anything about sneaking around, hiding, or avoiding a confrontation.
I have been out of the base capture part of the game for a long time because there was no challenge to it. 5 guys could NOE all night and fail 1 in 10 big deal. 15-20 guys with a plan could do the same at 10k and maybe fail a bit more, even so, no real challenge. With these changes it adds a bit more challenge, players will have to be a bit more on their game to succeed, I see nothing wrong with that.
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"in most cases an NOE raid is done to avoid combat with the defending forces rather than engage and defeat them."
This is not true for me.
Second I don't hate new settings.
I Thought that It would be better with a preventive discussion among us and HTC
- obviously that HTC has the last word.
"The difference is I would run that type of mission MAYBE one or two out of 20."
Who tells You NO???
:salute
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"in most cases an NOE raid is done to avoid combat with the defending forces rather than engage and defeat them."
This is not true for me.
Second I don't hate new settings.
I Thought that It would be better with a preventive discussion among us and HTC
- obviously that HTC has the last word.
:salute
Understood lulu... that is why I said, "In MOST cases" :) There are valid reasons for an occasional NOE raid, and there are those that understand that. Many however, do not.
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I admit, as I wrote, that to have more vehicles around would be a good thing.
But this is not me for me a true goal. (Who takes care! You could say :lol)
The game now seems more number dependent, so that if You are interested to
win the war, then this is a bad thing.
As example.
I remember when there were factories that those target was an element of strategy.
You went there, damaged it, waited for some cons that so You subtracted from the hordes
attaking or defending other countries.
Another example.
Let's put some strong squadron together in the same country. What will happens?
Last one. Flying noe becomes more borrowing then difficult (I not saying it is easy mode).
:salute
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Why Athena image is armed?
Do You remember the story of Trojan Horse?
That is the key point of ALL war!
I think that every soldier knows that!
Win a war by cruel combat is an illusion.
So we need an effective HQ (strategic head quarter) to coordinate and split the horde!
In Bishops Who want to cooperate to build own one!?
:salute
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Just as an example of an NOE raid that was done to promote combat...
Back before HTC changed the strat system, me a few squaddies took 3 110's and a goon on an NOE mission to a VBase that was FAR behind enemy lines. I forget the name of the map, but the VBase we were heading for had a spawn point into the capitol up in the NE corner, surrounded by uncaptureable air bases. We flew under dar for 7 or 8 sectors through the mountains and took with base without opposition... mostly because they never thought to look that far in their rear for a base under attack. Everyone on our side that night bailed and came to the base as soon as we had it. After blowing up the HQ with LVT's... we waited. And we didnt have to wait for long. Every player on the team we just hit dropped what they were doing and came to get their base back... which is exactly what we wanted. We knew we werent going to keep it... we just did it to stir things up a bit. But what we didnt know, was that it would light the fuse on a fight over that base that would last at least 2 hours! It was like we had smacked a hornets nest with a stick and just stood there.
Wave after wave of Lancs and heavy fighters came in to flatten the base and kill all of us. Bombs and flaming planes fell from the sky like rain. Tanks and Flaks were exploding left and right and darting all over the place to try and stay alive. Every time they would get us down to the last GV, a hangar would pop and it started all over again. We were all laughing our butts off and having a great time! And there were LOL's and <S>'s being handed out from both sides as the fight went on and on and on. They eventually got the base back... it was late, and players from both sides started logging off for the evening... tired, but happy.
Most evenings of playing AH are a blur by the time I log in the next day to play again... but that night I will always remember. It was by far in the top 3 of the best times I have had playing this game. We tried that same type of attack a few other times, but it never worked again like it did that night. It was a one in a million fight.
Admittedly, that type of take does not require a lot of skill. Just the patience to make the long run, and the luck not to have a flacker or two up when the base started to flash. Now unfortunately... that SAME type of mission... 3 or more 110's and a goon being used in the manner in which we used them (and there are other combinations too) , have become a standard for many groups when attacking bases, and is NOT done to "stir it up" or "create a fight". It is done simply to take the base with as little resistance as possible. And that is the main reason (In my opinion) for the change in the dar settings.
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Completely agree on the skill aspects.
But also a lack of surveillance is a bad thing. What can You do?
In past time, 2 years ago, i covered alone too 4 or 5 sector, burned
acks, come back at home took a c47 and the vbase. Why? Rooks were
to busy to do what they more like: furballing! Or they were to 'tired' or 'high aces'
to defend. I guessed on it and I took the base.
If
bishs=athenynses
rooks=spartans
then
who hell are nights??? :rofl
:salute
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but better planing and organization
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Need you say more??
In reality, whenever HTC modified the level of base capture, tactics evolved. I remember when town had no ack (just 2 soft batteries) and M16 runs and 110 raids where the thing to do. Then ack was added on base and town to slow things down. Then when the 3 fighter hangers were lined up on the small field and HTC seperated them just like on the medium field and Vehicle base. So, I guess let the dust settle and see what happens.
I just think if a mission is coming in with ord at 12k with the dar as big as it is, it gives some guys on the opposing base time to up a 109 at 15k and pick the mission coming in. I just see it as a score-potatos dream really.
65 NOE we can live with but dar size back to original IMO.
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It was puffy ack in town btw, not a soft gun (manned ack).
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NOE raids promoted fighting, just a different fight than the traditional. They add a different dimension to the game just as the GV aspect. Effectively neutering it seems like an over reaction. A below the tree tops dar restriction makes the fun NOE raids over hills pretty much impossible. I guess I don't understand why extending the proximity warning from 12 to 15-18 miles would not give substantially more warning and promote a quick action/reaction low level furball fight. The main problem is local massive numbers imbalance not NOE raids. The game would benefit from more dimensionality not less.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Need you say more??
In reality, whenever HTC modified the level of base capture, tactics evolved. I remember when town had no ack (just 2 soft batteries) and M16 runs and 110 raids where the thing to do. Then ack was added on base and town to slow things down. Then when the 3 fighter hangers were lined up on the small field and HTC seperated them just like on the medium field and Vehicle base. So, I guess let the dust settle and see what happens.
I just think if a mission is coming in with ord at 12k with the dar as big as it is, it gives some guys on the opposing base time to up a 109 at 15k and pick the mission coming in. I just see it as a score-potatos dream really.
65 NOE we can live with but dar size back to original IMO.
You think they will come in at 12k? :lol
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Great, time to introduce wind at diff alts.
Ohh and complex bomb sight calibration. :aok
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I like the new radar.
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Lute,
I am not so much trying to compare one way of having fun in AH to another as saying that they ALL have their gamey aspects to them...and using the verbage "to avoid combat" is most often trying to denigrate one side or the other. In MY OPINION flying a 262 or hanging around a lower fight with maintaining E/alt advantage is AVOIDING COMBAT...or perhaps AVOIDING FAIR COMBAT more than any NOE attack. ANY noe attack can be defended if another country is coordinated and cares to defend. When I am in an NOE mission I run the real risk that 10 enemy planes with better flight capabilities are going to up and take us on. On the other hand if i bring a 262 to an already outnumbered fight ( or really ANY fight except buff hunting), I am greatly increasing the odds that i may NEVER actually be in harms way. It is obviously done to try to stay alive with minimal threat of being shot down in order to rack up kills. Why this is more HONORABLE or demonstrates GREATER SKILL is beyond me. I will again state here that I am NOT accusing YOU or your squad as frequently using these tactics...I am also aware that you are a very good 1 v 1 fiter (better then me) so I am not trying to insult your skill level.
I don't wish to rehash the past so much but in defense of my squad's tactics in the past (tactics I implemented) it was during the period of time when ganging/rolling bish was more commonplace. NOE's, mass porkings etc were the only viable options too have success against superior numbers. Also long before BoP's became a megasquad, MAW was one of the groups rolling us and we needed a way to counter large coordinated squad attacks. The guys who didn't jump countries were desperate for some way to hold off being rolled and many gravitated to our squad and we grew exponentially. As of the last few years I think you will be hard pressed to say my squad is one of the largest NOE offenders or are one of the squads who like to grief other countries by rolling FT/TT or "winning the war". This is because in general the arenas have been more balanced since HTC implemented the need for a country to capture equal amounts of both opposing countries airfields to "win". This has improved gameplay the most imho. Unfortunately i think the difficulty in "winning the war" is beginning to have the effect now of encouraging ganging one country in order to obtain imbalances. Unfortunate.
I would rather have seen HTC implement a system of "regional eny" where if a country chooses to outnumber another side by concentrating all of its forces in one area then a regional eny kicks in that limits the quality of planes available....i.e. no 262s and tempests. This would encourage a xountry to spread its fights across several fronts thus encouragin many smaller battles. THAT would promote combat the most no? If I was a programmer that is where I would have concentrated my efforts...but I MUST respect the developer's direction and that is why I will give this time to see how it plays out.
:salute
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Man this sucks, I can't pick in my Stuka no more under radar. :mad:
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Whatever your feeling about the new settings,it has reduced the options and taken a level of play away, of this there is no doubt.
I don't seem to see where this has enhanced the "gameplay" other than constant furballs, everytime i log on you see streams of fighters back and forth to bases and no results from the ensuing furballs. The radar rings have a glitch, the dar bar has a glitch, ok you ask what glitch? Radar glitch is that a dar will pop up in a sector and be there for awhile then, POOF an enemy con shows on radar halfway to base, this doesn't happen all the time but it does happen.Dar glitch it the reverse.
Whenever you remove a element from the game you remove a little of fun.
For those of you who enjoy the nonstop fighter aspect of the game, this is a godsend, for others not so much.We now get to see High fighters hovering over furballs cherry picking more than ever,maps that barely move, and just a reduction in gameplay in general.
A few people that have responded in here, i have noticed, are of the sky is green type, you tell them it blue they say green. no matter what the subject they will disagree just to disagree. seems to be a pattern in allot of threads.
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Flying under 65 feet is not that hard :rolleyes:
Prepares flame suit :uhoh
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Flying under 65 feet is not that hard :rolleyes:
Prepares flame suit :uhoh
over ground?????? yeah it is, level ground maybe with no trees or buildings or hills or squirrels.
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I hate squirrels.
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I hate squirrels.
Yes but trees suck...in a fireball kinda way.
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it has reduced the options and taken a level of play away, of this there is no doubt.
You need to rest easy son. If you stick around longer than a few years you will figure out that HTC doesn't make changes of this magnitude by mistake. It is like accepting your place in the flock. Be led faithfully, or go astray :old:
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over ground?????? yeah it is, level ground maybe with no trees or buildings or hills or squirrels.
Forget to bring a chain saw? ;) :D
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Lute,
I am not so much trying to compare one way of having fun in AH to another as saying that they ALL have their gamey aspects to them...and using the verbage "to avoid combat" is most often trying to denigrate one side or the other. In MY OPINION flying a 262 or hanging around a lower fight with maintaining E/alt advantage is AVOIDING COMBAT...or perhaps AVOIDING FAIR COMBAT more than any NOE attack.
Nah. Flying a jet into a horde is anything but avoiding combat and danger. Flying against 15-20 enemies is much riskier and difficult than any 1v1. In a jet you aren't fighting any 1 enemy, you are fighting the organism that is the horde.
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Whatever your feeling about the new settings,it has reduced the options and taken a level of play away, of this there is no doubt.
I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.
If you have chosen to no longer use NOE tactics because of the fear of being spotted, that's your fault, not HTC's. Regardless of the attack strategy you choose, the only thing that has changed is the potential to encounter a stronger defense. It's still up to the other players to actually takeoff and defend the target, either at 200 feet or 25,000 feet.
It is very clear from HiTechs responses that the decision was made in order to promote combat (between customers), it was not done to take anything away from anyone.
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I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.
Wrong.
You are concentrating too much on NOE hordes. Things have changed in some ways independent from that.
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If you want to get pedantic (technical) Snailman, I will agree that the element of searching for the enemy has been reduced (but not eliminated). However, with a little forethought it is still very easy to blind the enemy and mask a well planned attack. Also, it is within reason to see some changes to the MA maps with bases a little farther apart, that would bring back the radar gaps between fields.
It's interesting to me to see how this "change" is being characterized as taking away an aspect of the game. Especially when you compare this discussion to a change to the ENY system, which really does change what you can fly and when. This change was a good first step to working towards the points HiTech was trying to address, it may not be the last step either.
But the fact remains the changes to the arena do not remove any function of the game, the players reacting to the new settings are the ones that have changed.
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Take what happened Thursday night. Dweeb Island map is up, Rooks have TT. A25 to the West of A22 had an NOE mission. The Rooks could not drop FH's. All of a sudden there is a big push "to hit the town". I'm in range of 5 Rooks and am allowed to go North/NE for a goon. I find the Goon landed on the beach and he is towered.
I'll spare you the 200 whining this person did, but to the effect "When there are multiple cons at A25 to engage, why would I go "goon hunting in an La7"?
They never got the base while I was logged in.
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Take what happened Thursday night. Dweeb Island map is up, Rooks have TT. A25 to the West of A22 had an NOE mission. The Rooks could not drop FH's. All of a sudden there is a big push "to hit the town". I'm in range of 5 Rooks and am allowed to go North/NE for a goon. I find the Goon landed on the beach and he is towered.
I'll spare you the 200 whining this person did, but to the effect "When there are multiple cons at A25 to engage, why would I go "goon hunting in an La7"?
They never got the base while I was logged in.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
awesome
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I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.
If you have chosen to no longer use NOE tactics because of the fear of being spotted, that's your fault, not HTC's. Regardless of the attack strategy you choose, the only thing that has changed is the potential to encounter a stronger defense. It's still up to the other players to actually takeoff and defend the target, either at 200 feet or 25,000 feet.
It is very clear from HiTechs responses that the decision was made in order to promote combat (between customers), it was not done to take anything away from anyone.
The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it . so it DID take away from the gameplay! Also the increased dar range gives even an earlier warning of the impending strike allowing the enemy to up a resistance even faster. Between the two new "improvements" the response time to an impending strike has doubled or better. The fact of the matter is, if you wanna go at 25k and waste 25 min climbing there everytime you want to take a base you will still get intercepted due to the longer dar range! Again this DID take away from tactics that can be used to take a base. high or low it has turned this into a mid alt war and a constant furball. The game has INDEED lost an aspect of the former options. As far as promoting combat........why make the town able to be captured if all you want is fighter combat??I mean no disrespect to hitech or any of its staff but i cannot see how this makes the game more enjoyable "save for a select few" for anyone!!!! Taking away options is taking them away, that cannot be sugar coated in any way shape or form! As far as a stronger defense why couldnt they just try harder under the old rules????? we all where subject to them and we all had NOE raids. Certain people in certain countries had complained about it and we ALL know who they are.
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I wouldn't say that players complained about noe hoard weenies as much as felt sorry for them.
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Could you please explain...
The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it
The radar is 65 ft agl not 65 ft asl so as the terrain rises so does the radar.
So I'd like to know how you can state this fact above.
And promote combat it does or is your idea of combat simply shooting and bombing defenceless buildings?
:salute
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It's interesting to me to see how this "change" is being characterized as taking away an aspect of the game.
It's taking not things away from everyone, btu for some it does.. particularly for single pilots. With a single set of buffs, you could try to skip dars at least for some part of your way towards a rear target like the strats, now you are completely visible all the time. Also "mass tactics" will get ever more important due to dar coverage by several overlapping dar circles that often even extend bexond an enemy airbase.
One thing I used to do when not hunting buffs was flyign giant a horde that had a friendly base all covered, often being the only "green" pilot there vs a whole red bar, looking for hangar dropping buffs & goons. Now quite often the horde has radar coverage over the base they are pounding, sometimes even by several different bases, from 65ft up. No way I can survive there as single con for any meaningful amount of time. That IS a change, and that took things away.
On top of that, I find it just... wrong.. that Vbases are able to see enemy cons in the next sector right at takeoff, even though it does not "hurt" me at all - I'm more defending Vbases in tanks or wirbels than attacking them in planes. ;)
Now I can't say at this point how much it really changes the game, how many people are being affected... it's quite subjective. However, I have the feeling that there is a greater reluctance to enter enemy airspace unless there is a reasonable amount of friendlies around. And I see much less buff guys trying their luck at the strats. And I miss a lot of the old guesswork/analysis (there is a buff in the sector, is he trying to get to AXXX, or will he turn back to drop hangars again at AXXY?
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Could you please explain...
The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it
The radar is 65 ft agl not 65 ft asl so as the terrain rises so does the radar.
:salute
With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time. Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control. :joystick: :devil
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With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time. Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control. :joystick: :devil
I think it was meant to make it impossible.
I haven't tried it yet, never really was much of an noe guy myself.
However I did love coming in under the dar and popping up to surprize some cons guarding a friendly V base that was flattened, then hunting down the inevitable goon. :airplane:
I also loved scanning the map for noes.
Win or lose, I liked upping a hurri 2 and hammering away all comers! Great fun.
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The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it .
Thats funny, I few 3 sectors over hilly terrain (not the worst mountains but hills none the less) NOE to a base and was not intercepted (in a late war arena with over 100 players in it). There were a couple of werbi's out when I got there, but that's no different than with the old settings. So NOE is still a valid tactic and the settings did not take it away.
You simply choose to think that now that it is harder to do, it's taken away, and that is not the case. It is your choice not to go NOE, to complain about it is simply trying to blame someone else for your decision.
An important point to remember for all the doom and gloom types about NOE, you may pop above 65 feet and show on radar. However, someone has to be looking and they have to get a radar update to see you. You do not become visible to everyone as soon as you break dar, and not everyone gets the radar updates at the same time. So if you get back down below 65 feet quickly, the dot will only be visible for a short period of time and not everyone will see it.
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With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time. Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control. :joystick: :devil
Ok Grizz ya got me,personally I think 150 ft would likely be a good split between what we had and whats now but thats my thoughts and I would in no way complain about any change that promotes combat as opposed to what we had before.
I'm sure much like you I'd have a difficult time trying to keep under the Darmbut isnt that what it was really like?
Or maybe neither of us know how to fly.... :neener:
:salute
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Ok Grizz ya got me,personally I think 150 ft would likely be a good split between what we had and whats now but thats my thoughts and I would in no way complain about any change that promotes combat as opposed to what we had before.
Oh golly G why didn't make it 495 feet instead of 65, your 150 would have the same effect, I.E. no effect at all. The point is not to lower it, but to have a major impact by lowering it.
HiTEch
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Oh golly G why didn't make it 495 feet instead of 65, your 150 would have the same effect, I.E. no effect at all.
I think you are overestimating the skill level in the MA's ;)
Almost everyone can stay <500 over land... but quite a few would be hard pressed to maintain <150, especially when having to change course... IMHO <100 would also drastically reduce overland NOE's, though of course not as much as 65, which is about impossible for the overwhelming majority of players to maintain for more than a few moments - myself included :D
I wonder what effect 100ft + larger base warning range would have on NOE's ? :headscratch:
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I think you are overestimating the skill level in the MA's ;)
Almost everyone can stay <500 over land... but quite a few would be hard pressed to maintain <150, especially when having to change course... IMHO <100 would also drastically reduce overland NOE's, though of course not as much as 65, which is about impossible for the overwhelming majority of players to maintain for more than a few moments - myself included :D
I wonder what effect 100ft + larger base warning range would have on NOE's ? :headscratch:
Is it the quality of a persons PC that won't allow them to stay below DAR over land? I seem to have little trouble doing this as long as I stay focused.
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Is it the quality of a persons PC that won't allow them to stay below DAR over land?
As long you are not entering the realm of single digit FR and stuttering, I don't see any
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As long you are not entering the realm of single digit FR and stuttering, I don't see any
:aok Now I do hear a lot of people complain about there frame rates & so forth :headscratch: I guess the next question is how many people have lower end equipment that just can't play under these guide lines & impact their own style of play to the point they give up on the game? Time will tell I guess.
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:aok Now I do hear a lot of people complain about there frame rates & so forth :headscratch: I guess the next question is how many people have lower end equipment that just can't play under these guide lines & impact their own style of play to the point they give up on the game?
I'm really doubting that anybody that could go NOE before without massive FR problems now suddenly will have some. I don't see new NOE alt and techical requirements conncted in such a manner :headscratch:
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HTC,
Could you please let me know what the "problem" was in the first place?
We all know that noe raids took place and as previously described by some hordes of people, this took place on all sides. granted it could be frustrating but hey, that's war.(no...constant furball is arcade)
One of the LARGEST aspects that the game has lost is in the mission area. You hardly see them anymore, there is an undeniable reduction. How has something been lost? Ill tell you. Noe missions that had been posted could be joined by anyone, thus inexperienced pilots could join a mission and have a relatively good chance of having some success over water. Over land they still slam into trees, buildings and small hills, but the room for error was greater. During the forementioned missions a newb could meet other comrades and feel like he could contribute and be part of something.
A day or two after the dar changes, a mission was posted for a NOE mission over water to a base 1 sector away. Several people joined up including 4 people with limited experience, approx. 12 total in mission. During the mission shortly after takeoff "POOF" tree. One down. Shortly thereafter, (POOF) water. 2 Down.
So on and so forth, 5 down mission proceeded with 6 in flight. Town was hit but results were less than spectacular. To make a long story short several missions where run with about the same result, and the newbs gave up joining at all, the mission numbers weren't there so, no more missions posted.
Carrier based missions have experienced the same problem. No more pearl harbor style mission.......POOF....Why? Certain aircraft Will "dip" Off the edge of the carrier deck,others will lift a bit before the edge. The aircraft carrier deck sits at approx 50 feet, people slam into the deck trying to get down. plus it tips the enemy EXACTLY where the CV is, so the result is the CV goes down faster. Yet another example of lost gameplay.
Another item that seems to be lost is the accuracy of the various joysticks used in playing the game. They may not be as smooth as others or they may not have the ability to get them to that point. The accuracy of the stick does play a part in the ability to fly noe. Some sticks of lesser quality will never be smooth, and they may not understand or know how to set deadbands etc.
I can go on and on about what the game has lost. Can HTC do the same about what it has given?
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Yeah, you know more than the developers do. :rolleyes: Do you even bother to read
what you type? We understand your underwear is all bunched up about the changes.
Try adapting to a new environment instead of wonk wonking about the good old days.
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The radar is 65 ft agl not 65 ft asl so as the terrain rises so does the radar.
I have asked this before on another thread to no avail: how high are trees, barns, windmills, etc?
I am seeking an altitude reference for AGL. Over any land elevation greater than zero, the altimeter is useless for determining 65' AGL.
And promote combat it does or is your idea of combat simply shooting and bombing defenceless buildings?
Capturing an airfield requires taking down buildings regardless of altitude. Just saying.
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HTC,
Could you please let me know what the "problem" was in the first place?
Well here ya go since you didn't see it.
A few simple thoughts.
1. Best way to win a war is to hit the enemy where they ain't.
2. Best way to have fun in a combat orientated game is to have combat.
3. Attacking undefended targets is not combat even though it is the best strategy to win.
4. This is a game and not work or war. Expecting some one to be on defense with no idea if a strike is coming is not a legitimate expectation. Hence, you should defend your field is not a legitimate argument if it requires some one to do a very boring act with no guaranty of combat.
5. Defense now has more warning on a strike and time to organize a defense, so now we are more likely to have an offense and defense playing against each other instead of 2 offenses playing by themselves.
Hence these changes have nothing to do with fur-ball vs tool shedding. But simply about putting offense and defense on a more = level.
HiTech
And this will answer your follow-up questions.
And for the record,
1. No player requested a change.
2. No player that I remember asked for no NOE radar.
3. No player requested longer radar ranges.
4. No player that I remember complained about NOE raids.
5. No player requested shorter ranges.
6. I do not remember any whines about the radar ranges.
7. We did not in any way make this change because of any whining.
HiTech
On to my next point,
One of the LARGEST aspects that the game has lost is in the mission area.
Here's a thought for you, if NOE missions to undefended bases was one of the largest aspects of the game to you. You now have the opportunity to learn so much more about all that the game has to offer.
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I have asked this before on another thread to no avail: how high are trees, barns, windmills, etc?
The answer is, it depends on the specific object.
The easiest way to find this out for your self is to download the the terrain editor and the object editor. Then you can look at the various trees, barns, windmill, ect. in the object editor to get the specific heights.
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If one cant stay alive at 50 feet off the deck then why should it even matter? Where is the challenge? Sure you can have fun in this game taking undefended fields but if there is a significant number of people avoiding the game because of the way you are play it then something is going to have to change, and obviously, it has.
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The answer is, it depends on the specific object.
The easiest way to find this out for your self is to download the the terrain editor and the object editor. Then you can look at the various trees, barns, windmill, ect. in the object editor to get the specific heights.
I guess I don't get the initial question of actual height....you can't adjust your altimeter anyway so AGL or not, its still VFR flying...seat of the pants all the way....no autopilot. Am I missing something?
Changeup
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Well here ya go since you didn't see it.
And this will answer your follow-up questions.
On to my next point,
Here's a thought for you, if NOE missions to undefended bases was one of the largest aspects of the game to you. You now have the opportunity to learn so much more about all that the game has to offer.
Game over....reading HiTech's notes solves it for me. To continue to participate in this thread is an excercise in mental clown punching because HiTech's right even if it wasn't his game and his code. I am terrible at most of the facets of this game. I guess I will have to cowboy-up and get better....
Good explanation HiTech...thanks
Changeup
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I guess I don't get the initial question of actual height....you can't adjust your altimeter anyway so AGL or not, its still VFR flying...seat of the pants all the way....no autopilot. Am I missing something?
Changeup
I took RufusLeakings question to be that he was looking for visual cues when looking out of the cockpit to gauge his height. So as an example, if you know that the trees are 50 feet tall you have to be with 15 feet of the top to stay under radar. The hard part is not all the trees are the same so it does vary from object to object.
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HTC
1:Hitting the enemy where they ARE is a great advantage to the NOE! coming in low and hitting a swarm over a base had a great effect! the distraction it provided works with many different tactics in taking a base or rendering it inopperable. Seeing a huge increase in dar size just alerts the enemy to the incoming raid. Example: furball over an enemy airfield in an on going battle....Noe fighter sweep into said base.....deack and clear field area....town down ....base take. simple. If the dar shows a rapid rise the enemy knows your coming. the element of surprise is all but LOST in the game now. The Larger radar rings overlap so bad on some maps, they see you lifting of your runway. not everyone wants to spend the game dar darting. The enemy is ALWAYS there with the new settings,so there is no "hitting them where they ain't"
2: The reason the game is fun is the MANY aspects of combat available combat did involve the stratagy of the sneak attack and the ability to defend against it! Not all players are as adept to air combat as others but still like to fly and attack. Isnt that the reason you can score as attack or fighter?
3: This thread was never intended to be simply about killing towns and taking bases. is it part of that...yes... but if all you want is a versus AIR combat isnt that what the DA is for? The extended radar rings combined with the noe change HAS turned it into more of a furball, THAT gets boring.
4: If no one complained about it....Why change it? The game has become EXACTLY that, 2 offenses playing against each other, just look! see the two streams of dots converging in the middle of two bases? Yep thats a big furball in the middle, it has always happened but now thats alll you see! You now have to types of radar, one you can control one you cant, the difference is now you dont have a choice before you could manipulate them to an advantage.
5: As far as defending....yes bases where lost and sometimes bases where rolled up...but cant tell me they couldnt see bases being taken? After a base or two would fall why did they not up a defense then? The opposing team did have time to react then.
6: again i ask ....if wasn't broke ....why fix it??
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The enemy is ALWAYS there with the new settings,so there is no "hitting them where they ain't"
....so...the change worked, yes...?
- oldman
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5: As far as defending....yes bases where lost and sometimes bases where rolled up...but cant tell me they couldnt see bases being taken? After a base or two would fall why did they not up a defense then? The opposing team did have time to react then.
6: again i ask ....if wasn't broke ....why fix it??
It was broke, and it didn't work like you are saying. If so, there would not have been a problem. More often than not, the NOE's were used in a way you simply could not defend against: against a severly outnumbered enemy, and with rapidly changing targets. You can't simply muster the necessary number of players vs a 20+ noe horde within 2 minutes if you are outnumbered, especially if the enemy plays "smart" and hits here and there all across the map.
The particular sudnay that has been referred to a number of times was the prime example: The NOEs did only start after Bishs had achieved a huge numerical superiority, lasted for hours and did only stop when the numbers were getting even.
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6: again i ask ....if wasn't broke ....why fix it??
:rofl ... you just don't get it, do you ? ... HiTech thought it was broke, and him being the ultimate decision maker, fixed it.
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:lol
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i thought 65 feet was a little extreme, I have not yet tried to fly a mission at that altitude, but i imagine lancasters should probably just leave the gear down and drive there!
TO me, 100 feet would have been a better number,but 500 was a good bit more room than most needed, i flew at 200 for a good year or more till i read it was 500!
now if it is going to stay 65 feet, lets kill the radar all together if you can get in and out without going above it or at least change it to GV DAR limits
make it worth it to try to get into a base under DAR by not alerting anyone if you do,this would help to improve the skill level of those pilots wishing to still fly NOE missions and encourage them to still try to do so!
what is the alert distance of a GV into a town or base?
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what is the alert distance of a GV into a town or base?
3 miles
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3 miles
so i should not flash the base at all until three miles if i could get there under 65 feet all the way, my new wish!!!
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HTC
6: again i ask ....if wasn't broke ....why fix it??
I suggest you look at Hitechs post again, it was broke.
Hence these changes have nothing to do with fur-ball vs tool shedding. But simply about putting offense and defense on a more = level.
Nothing in these changes is stopping you, or anyone else, from creating and running missions. However, there is now a greater possibility that you will face a stronger defense is all. If you are afraid of having to fight to capture a base that's another matter for you to decide.
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The particular sudnay that has been referred to a number of times was the prime example: The NOEs did only start after Bishs had achieved a huge numerical superiority, lasted for hours and did only stop when the numbers were getting even.
I've heard some say, that when they see a side rolling another, they simple switch to the superior side to get the easy kills. Is this actually fairly common behavior.
If your talking 'realism', switching sides so easily AND maintaining your pilot rating is kinda lame. You can't even do that in an arcade game.
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so i should not flash the base at all until three miles if i could get there under 65 feet all the way, my new wish!!!
The difference between 3 miles and 12 miles doing approx 300 mph is really insignificant if you think about it.
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The difference between 3 miles and 12 miles doing approx 300 mph is really insignificant if you think about it.
ok so why not do it? lol
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If your talking 'realism', switching sides so easily AND maintaining your pilot rating is kinda lame. You can't even do that in an arcade game.
Only if one gives a crap about pilot ranking, which is probably the most unrealistic part of the whole game.
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Only if one gives a crap about pilot ranking, which is probably the most unrealistic part of the whole game.
most unrealistic, lame, yes,,, but i bet if you couldn't take it with you, many would not change sides as often, it is amazing to me how many say they don't care about there score yet play for it almost all the time!
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I've heard some say, that when they see a side rolling another, they simple switch to the superior side to get the easy kills.
He may get the occasionally "easy" kill, but thats about it. Most of the time you will mostly fight the other "green" guys to get the lone defender before they do. You k/h and k/s may get quite low... ;)
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most unrealistic, lame, yes,,, but i bet if you couldn't take it with you, many would not change sides as often, it is amazing to me how many say they don't care about there score yet play for it almost all the time!
How do you figure someone is playing for score? :)
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He may get the occasionally "easy" kill, but thats about it. Most of the time you will mostly fight the other "green" guys to get the lone defender before they do. You k/h and k/s may get quite low... ;)
Along with facing ENY restrictions.
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most unrealistic, lame, yes,,, but i bet if you couldn't take it with you, many would not change sides as often, it is amazing to me how many say they don't care about there score yet play for it almost all the time!
If "you" means me personally ... you know me better than that ... if "you" is being used collectively ... in most cases you are likely right.
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How do you figure someone is playing for score? :)
it is a blanket statement, not meant to be derogatory in any way, i just think that a lot more people play for score than will ever admit,,, including me! only I don't play to be number one, i just like to be in the top half most of
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the time, a few players that I can think of , switch sides to help keep or increase there score," IN MY OPINION", and as such, it would be harder to manipulate a score if they could not switch sides and take there score with them!
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^^^^^^^^^
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I took RufusLeakings question to be that he was looking for visual cues when looking out of the cockpit to gauge his height. So as an example, if you know that the trees are 50 feet tall you have to be with 15 feet of the top to stay under radar. The hard part is not all the trees are the same so it does vary from object to object.
Baumer understands my question.
If one knows the height of the trees, then one has a visual (VFR) cue to one's altitude above the ground.
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So why was this change made? NOE missions are meant for an element of surprise. They were fun to be involved in, and even more fun to thwart.
I love a good battle. Mixed. Bomber missions, fighter sweeps with discipline, targeted attacks (ords, troops, vh etc) on bases, duels, and yes even the occasional ww1 adventure (when there are people on)
Apparently bases were being rolled too quickly after hours and this is possibly the reason for this change? That's not going to change honestly, it's only going to slow it down a tad.
What has changed is, I can now spot a carriers exact location :) This is immediately apparent, what else this affects will come to light soon too. So , bye bye carriers, I just don't miss that often.
I think Groundfeeder is right honestly, at least give folks a choice and watch the results accordingly. People that just want to furball without regard to strategy should jump into the dueling arena. If the game comes to that, then it's going to be PRETTY BORING. I'll be sure to stay out of harms way and attack when the time is right if it comes down to that. Ensuring the tactical advantage.
Being out of this game for almost 9 months, I've noticed that it appears the subscriber base on nightly has gone down. Can't blame that on economy all the way, usually entertainment booms during these times. I think we need more interesting things to do rather than to limit the things we could do. I really think we have enough planes for now. We need more purpose in the game other than to just shoot sh**, I feel the game is turning arcade slowly.
Once upon a time, in a game long since dead. The Devs catered to the whiners. The lifers, ...the folks they considered the backbone of the game because they lived on the game. They took pride in their linear solo skills and when a group of organized people came along and put a damper on that, they cried. The devs nerfed the game to none existence.
That's not your true customer base.
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Once upon a time, in a game long since dead. The Devs catered to the whiners. The lifers, ...the folks they considered the backbone of the game because they lived on the game. They took pride in their linear solo skills and when a group of organized people came along and put a damper on that, they cried. The devs nerfed the game to none existence.
That's not your true customer base.
Nail on head! This is such a danger. Often it seems that the ppl that care more about the game, over all, are the least vocal.
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there will always, and I mean ALWAYS, be people to replace you. Always.....there's a head of a nail for you :neener:
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there will always, and I mean ALWAYS, be people to replace you. Always.....there's a head of a nail for you :neener:
You think? people who have always been in the game , will ALWAYS be in the game. As for the new guys....well lets see how long it holds thier interest when all they do is get furballed to death and die at a rate that will please people such as yourself.
End result will be subscribership falloff and the end to your "career" CONSTANT FURBALLING IS NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME!
This simple change by HTC has changed the game in ways they still dont see, and replied to me as i said about the base defense portion, "so it worked".
Yes it worked.....You got your furballs. You took from the game.
I love this game. have from the first day i played it. I don't completly understand HTC"S reason behind it. I do however respect HTC's decision.for this I :salute HTC and it's staff. But i don't have to like it.
I may get booted from the game for being a bit overzelous in my opinion of the change, but we tend to defend the thing we love.
We will see how this plays out, I could be wrong but i don't think so!............................. now, about ENY.......kidding
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HTC
1:Hitting the enemy where they ARE is a great advantage to the NOE! coming in low and hitting a swarm over a base had a great effect! the distraction it provided works with many different tactics in taking a base or rendering it inopperable. Seeing a huge increase in dar size just alerts the enemy to the incoming raid. Example: furball over an enemy airfield in an on going battle....Noe fighter sweep into said base.....deack and clear field area....town down ....base take. simple. If the dar shows a rapid rise the enemy knows your coming. the element of surprise is all but LOST in the game now. The Larger radar rings overlap so bad on some maps, they see you lifting of your runway. not everyone wants to spend the game dar darting. The enemy is ALWAYS there with the new settings,so there is no "hitting them where they ain't"
2: The reason the game is fun is the MANY aspects of combat available combat did involve the stratagy of the sneak attack and the ability to defend against it! Not all players are as adept to air combat as others but still like to fly and attack. Isnt that the reason you can score as attack or fighter?
3: This thread was never intended to be simply about killing towns and taking bases. is it part of that...yes... but if all you want is a versus AIR combat isnt that what the DA is for? The extended radar rings combined with the noe change HAS turned it into more of a furball, THAT gets boring.
4: If no one complained about it....Why change it? The game has become EXACTLY that, 2 offenses playing against each other, just look! see the two streams of dots converging in the middle of two bases? Yep thats a big furball in the middle, it has always happened but now thats alll you see! You now have to types of radar, one you can control one you cant, the difference is now you dont have a choice before you could manipulate them to an advantage.
5: As far as defending....yes bases where lost and sometimes bases where rolled up...but cant tell me they couldnt see bases being taken? After a base or two would fall why did they not up a defense then? The opposing team did have time to react then.
6: again i ask ....if wasn't broke ....why fix it??
You wouldn't know "strategy" if it fell into your lap.
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Once upon a time, in a game long since dead. The Devs catered to the whiners. The lifers, ...the folks they considered the backbone of the game because they lived on the game. They took pride in their linear solo skills and when a group of organized people came along and put a damper on that, they cried. The devs nerfed the game to none existence.
So your saying if I listen to you, you would cry that I nerfed the game to none existence?
HiTech
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Once upon a time, in a game long since dead. The Devs catered to the whiners. The lifers, ...the folks they considered the backbone of the game because they lived on the game. They took pride in their linear solo skills and when a group of organized people came along and put a damper on that, they cried. The devs nerfed the game to none existence.
:rofl ... what a load of bollocks.
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You think? people who have always been in the game , will ALWAYS be in the game. As for the new guys....well lets see how long it holds thier interest when all they do is get furballed to death and die at a rate that will please people such as yourself.
End result will be subscribership falloff and the end to your "career" CONSTANT FURBALLING IS NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME!
This simple change by HTC has changed the game in ways they still dont see, and replied to me as i said about the base defense portion, "so it worked".
Yes it worked.....You got your furballs. You took from the game.
I love this game. have from the first day i played it. I don't completly understand HTC"S reason behind it. I do however respect HTC's decision.for this I :salute HTC and it's staff. But i don't have to like it.
I may get booted from the game for being a bit overzelous in my opinion of the change, but we tend to defend the thing we love.
We will see how this plays out, I could be wrong but i don't think so!............................. now, about ENY.......kidding
What do you think new people coming into the game expect to do? It is a MMOG, with real, live opponents. Are they looking for a game where they can sneak around and avoid fighting all those other real, live opponents?
Theoretically, anyone coming into the game new, right now, will not know any better anyway. If they're going to leave because they can't "hack it" why would they stay anyhow?
If someone is not willing to put some effort into learning and improving and making it a fun and enjoyable time then I wouldn't expect them to stay no matter how things are set up.
This just reminds me of one of those "everyone gets a trophy" threads. Maybe it should just be easy mode for everyone all the time.
Doesn't that sound like fun? :huh
wrongway
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You think? people who have always been in the game , will ALWAYS be in the game. As for the new guys....well lets see how long it holds thier interest when all they do is get furballed to death and die at a rate that will please people such as yourself.
All I know is that, based on game IDs and casual knowledge of single user multiple accounts trends, turnover in this game is about 80% every three years. I doubt if you will last three years. If for no other reason than thats just the way it is :)
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All I know is that, based on game IDs and casual knowledge of single user multiple accounts trends, turnover in this game is about 80% every three years. I doubt if you will last three years. If for no other reason than that's just the way it is :)
Well sorry to disappoint +3 and i will continue to play...Still love the game just seems less of it. The primary reason I will continue to stick around is the interaction between players and the upgrading of the game( no last change was not an upgrade in my mind) if those things go south so shall I. Just because the life time members have been in here to the point of fossils doesn't mean no one has a voice, if that's the case, then I feel bad for your future, but i don't believe that's the case. Oh yeah and changing the rules of engagement...... Who does that remind you of?
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You think? people who have always been in the game , will ALWAYS be in the game. As for the new guys....well lets see how long it holds thier interest when all they do is get furballed to death and die at a rate that will please people such as yourself.
End result will be subscribership falloff and the end to your "career" CONSTANT FURBALLING IS NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME!
This simple change by HTC has changed the game in ways they still dont see, and replied to me as i said about the base defense portion, "so it worked".
Yes it worked.....You got your furballs. You took from the game.
I love this game. have from the first day i played it. I don't completly understand HTC"S reason behind it. I do however respect HTC's decision.for this I :salute HTC and it's staff. But i don't have to like it.
I may get booted from the game for being a bit overzelous in my opinion of the change, but we tend to defend the thing we love.
We will see how this plays out, I could be wrong but i don't think so!............................. now, about ENY.......kidding
Hello Groundfeeder,
This change was not brought on by furballers, nor any other "group" in this game. This change was put in place by HTC to facilitate more conflict, unfortunately NOE's are by nature avoiding conflict. I know this as fact, as I have participated in NOE's enough over the last three years. Conflict has increased due to this change in my opinion.
It also has an impact on more than just the base-taking folks, it also impacts those who furball. There is now no excuse to not up and defend a base. Yes, even bases that are furballs. Ample warning exists to defend against an attack.
So I leave you with this:
Adjust tactics, embrace the thrill of a bunch red guys to shoot, and enjoy the war, as it can still be won. Bases are still being taken, and NOE's are still being run.
:salute
Way
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Well sorry to disappoint +3 and i will continue to play...Still love the game just seems less of it. The primary reason I will continue to stick around is the interaction between players and the upgrading of the game( no last change was not an upgrade in my mind) if those things go south so shall I. Just because the life time members have been in here to the point of fossils doesn't mean no one has a voice, if that's the case, then I feel bad for your future, but i don't believe that's the case. Oh yeah and changing the rules of engagement...... Who does that remind you of?
10 years a fossil?
Well......you obviously know the score. Off with your head! lol :rock
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Yeager,
I dont care what the length of time in here for you or anyone else is! i'm just pointing out that you have no more right than does a person that's been in here for a year, we all PAY to be in here. A voice is a voice
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I'm not so happy with this radar change, yet all the discussions in the world regarding the radar doesn't really matter. In my 5.5 yrs with the game, I've yet to see an arena enviromental change reversed, so let's just get used to it.
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What has changed is, I can now spot a carriers exact location :) This is immediately apparent, what else this affects will come to light soon too. So , bye bye carriers, I just don't miss that often.
dont get all melodramatic...
everyone already knew where the carriers were... every dweeb captain drives them as close to shore as possible...
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I'm not so happy with this radar change, yet all the discussions in the world regarding the radar doesn't really matter. In my 5.5 yrs with the game, I've yet to see an arena enviromental change reversed, so let's just get used to it.
You are quite correct of course, and i know this but, i needed to vent.
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This change was put in place by HTC to facilitate more conflict, unfortunately NOE's are by nature avoiding conflict.
NOE is a tactic to avoid detection and achieve surprise. The objective is to capture a base before the enemy can get up a good defense. Conflict is not necessarily avoided. It is just to be overwhelmingly in favor of the attacker.
Whew, strained myself stretching for that one. I have to concede that, in practice, NOE missions are typically used to hit undefended bases. And defenders rarely up in numbers; therefore, little conflict.
Aside from NOE, there are several ways to avoid conflict. High altitude buff passes are to minimize conflict. High altitude anything is to avoid conflict. Faster planes can be used to avoid conflict.
It is too soon to say, but the high altitude jabo horde might be the next fad. I need to log some LA-7 time.
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My dear groundfeeder:
Let me see if I can help you see the light. Basically you and your brethren have gotten the wrong metaphor of Aces High. There in lies your problem. You see because you and your brethren used to be able to do the following in Aces High using NOE missions...
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/crabarmy.jpg)
...you somehow mistakenly thought that the point of Aces High is to do this:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/oklandrush.jpg)
And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/foodchain2.jpg)
sincerely,
Tango
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My dear groundfeeder:
Let me see if I can help you see the light. Basically you and your brethren have gotten the wrong metaphor of Aces High. There in lies your problem. You see because you and your brethren used to be able to do the following in Aces High using NOE missions...
...you somehow mistakenly thought that the point of Aces High is to do this:
And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
sincerely,
Tango
:rofl My first ROFL emoticon. :salute dtango
Funny stuff, though there is no Darwinian advantage to being good at Aces High. In fact, it probably reduces the likelihood of reproducing.
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My dear groundfeeder:
Let me see if I can help you see the light. Basically you and your brethren have gotten the wrong metaphor of Aces High. There in lies your problem. You see because you and your brethren used to be able to do the following in Aces High using NOE missions...
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/crabarmy.jpg)
...you somehow mistakenly thought that the point of Aces High is to do this:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/oklandrush.jpg)
And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/foodchain2.jpg)
sincerely,
Tango
The scary part is that you actually took time out of your life to make that diagram................... :devil
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The scary part is that you actually took time out of your life to make that diagram................... :devil
Bahhh, that didn't take any time.
But this did....:D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291476.msg3714551.html#msg3714551
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What many of the complainers don't realize is if Hitech really listened to the furballers, AH would be a vastly different place.
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My dear groundfeeder:
Let me see if I can help you see the light. Basically you and your brethren have gotten the wrong metaphor of Aces High. There in lies your problem. You see because you and your brethren used to be able to do the following in Aces High using NOE missions...
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/crabarmy.jpg)
...you somehow mistakenly thought that the point of Aces High is to do this:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/oklandrush.jpg)
And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/foodchain2.jpg)
sincerely,
Tango
BnZers above the furballers in the food chain? Let them come down from their perch and visit with the furballers....we shall see who eats whom my good friend and invariably, they WILL come down...and they will be eaten.
V/r
Sir Changeup of Furballerville
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What has changed is, I can now spot a carriers exact location :) This is immediately apparent, what else this affects will come to light soon too.
I have been back in the game for a short while and while the recent changes don't bother me one way or another (nor would they be enough to force me to stop my subscription :huh), I thought this point was interesting. Maybe I'm missing something but if GVs do not start a town/base flashing until within three miles due to ground spotting (being simulated), then shouldn't the carrier fleet (it is a ground based unit) also have the same basic property as far as visibility is concerned? Once an aircraft penetrates the 65' radar level it becomes visible on radar at a considerable range from the base, and within 12 miles it starts the base/town flashing. Does the carrier also start a base/town flashing at 12 miles, even without the benefit of being on the base's radar? And if so, should it's visibility rules be more consistent with ground units and actually be something less as far as range to trigger the flashing? Realizing fleets are larger and more easy to spot, I wouldn't think 3 miles would be appropriate, but 12 miles ( strictly IMO) would be a bit far to spot something on the surface (ASL) in WW2 without surface radar or being on a higher elevation to increase the visible horizon.
Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon)
* For observers on the ground with eye-level at h = 5 ft 7 in (5.583 ft), the horizon is at a distance of 2.89 miles (4.65 km).
* For observers standing on a hill or tower 100 feet (30 m) in height, the horizon is at a distance of 12.25 miles (19.71 km).
So I guess the question I have is do the CVs have an issue with visibility due to the recent changes? Or does the distance that trigger's the base's threat have more to do with the range that the bigger guns in the fleet can reach?
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You think? people who have always been in the game , will ALWAYS be in the game. As for the new guys....well lets see how long it holds thier interest when all they do is get furballed to death and die at a rate that will please people such as yourself.
End result will be subscribership falloff and the end to your "career" CONSTANT FURBALLING IS NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME!
This simple change by HTC has changed the game in ways they still dont see, and replied to me as i said about the base defense portion, "so it worked".
Yes it worked.....You got your furballs. You took from the game.
I love this game. have from the first day i played it. I don't completly understand HTC"S reason behind it. I do however respect HTC's decision.for this I :salute HTC and it's staff. But i don't have to like it.
I may get booted from the game for being a bit overzelous in my opinion of the change, but we tend to defend the thing we love.
We will see how this plays out, I could be wrong but i don't think so!............................. now, about ENY.......kidding
So what your saying is that now that you can"t run NOEs you can"t run missions, they are ALL doomed to failure because "they" are always there to stop you, Right?
You do know they there are other types of missions to run right? You had mentioned the "two lines of dots that lead to the furball". Well what you do is up from a base OUTSIDE the enemy dar ring where the fight is. To do this you might have to move a base or two farther back behind your lines, but this is good. I know, it makes for a longer flight, but that ok you can use the time for training. Once you get in the air and on a heading AWAY from the furbal (never try to fly strait thru one hvy....makes for short trips) you can assign target to all of your fellow mission runners. A big plus is that there are no trees or hills over 5-10k so even new players will be able to keep up. New players have lots of questions sometimes so the extra fly time is a great time to teach the new guys whats what, making them better players who with continual practice that your missions provide will only get better. Once past the furball, turn in toward the target and flatten that town/base. Dive bombing works well tho new guys do have trouble surviving the first pass, level bombing is easy enough even for the newest guy with 5 minutes of training.
All that has really changed is you now have to think of a way to get in and get the job done. Leaders have to lead, and followers have to follow and execute. Team work will now be more important.
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Bahhh, that didn't take any time.
But this did....:D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291476.msg3714551.html#msg3714551
Loved It dtango :rock :rock
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My dear groundfeeder:
Let me see if I can help you see the light. Basically you and your brethren have gotten the wrong metaphor of Aces High. There in lies your problem. You see because you and your brethren used to be able to do the following in Aces High using NOE missions...
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/crabarmy.jpg)
...you somehow mistakenly thought that the point of Aces High is to do this:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/oklandrush.jpg)
And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/foodchain2.jpg)
sincerely,
Tango
Seriously good stuff :aok
but...
(http://www.dutchusa.com/images/fok/morecowbell.jpg)
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And therein lies your problem. Why? Well that's completely the wrong metaphor for Aces High. The metaphor for Aces High is not an Oklahoma Land Rush, the correct metaphor is that of a Food Chain where conditions are setup so that species will FIND and feed off of each other! Attached below is an example. I've kindly annotated the diagram to illustrate.
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/foodchain2.jpg)
sincerely,
Tango
I love how hitech is below the alt monkies :)
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BnZers above the furballers in the food chain? Let them come down from their perch and visit with the furballers....we shall see who eats whom my good friend and invariably, they WILL come down...and they will be eaten.
V/r
Sir Changeup of Furballerville
So in other words, they would cease to be BnZers and become furballers? :lol
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HT decided things needed to be changed and we all have to respect that decision.
If he gives you a choice you will always take the path of least resistance. How about going back to the drawing board and adapting some of your tactics. You may well find new ways to take bases or put a little more thought into the capture.
Just thinking out aloud here. You send in a fast jabo before your attack, his job is to pork radar.
You need one set of lancs to kill town in 2 passes.
The rest are fighter cover / heavy jabos, 1 person gets assigned VH. The rest tidy up the 10 or so buildings in town. First person to die grabs troops.
You need about 5 guys minimum for the above.
The problem is usually the amount of defenders that up and if you do not have confidence in your fighter pilots capping the field. Once air superiority is lost you have very little chance of making the capture. This IS what it boils down too. Large squads that take the NOE option everytime just DO NOT have the aerial prowess or confidence to hold a cap. By coming in un-detected is your only chance of sneaking a field.
Whilst i'm not an out an out furballer over the years we have taken several fields with the least amount of pilots against superior odds. These captures ARE intense and enjoyable for both teams because there is COMBAT. Seems to me you guys do not want a fight?
Just because HT made a change, dosn't mean it was for the best. And I think you missed the point..AGAIN.
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38 ftw
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With every change I have not noticed that it makes any difference in how many times I get my butt waxed. Yes I am a dweeb with no skills. I am also a dweeb that has been paying for 9 years. If I do the math correctly that is about $1,620.00
Money well spent. I love this game. It is about more than skill. Flying with a squad, and being part of something that is not part of your daily grind and stress. This game relieves my stress. "Money well spent" Therapy would have cost me a lot more :rofl
I hope that HTC continues to make the game playable for everyone. In 9 years I think they have done a great job :salute :salute :salute
Relax, enjoy..................suspen d reality. You really will enjoy it.
Blutik
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Yeager,
I dont care what the length of time in here for you or anyone else is! i'm just pointing out that you have no more right than does a person that's been in here for a year, we all PAY to be in here. A voice is a voice
Im just tryin to lesson your suffering bro :aok
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Yeager,
I dont care what the length of time in here for you or anyone else is! i'm just pointing out that you have no more right than does a person that's been in here for a year, we all PAY to be in here. A voice is a voice
You and everyone else has a right to voice their opinion.
But HTC makes their decisions, based on what they feel is the best for game play.
Could they be wrong? Yes. They will be the ones to change it. ( I think that has happened )
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So your saying if I listen to you, you would cry that I nerfed the game to none existence?
HiTech
That doesnt even make sense.
History repeating itself...
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:rofl ... what a load of bollocks.
lol
If someone doesn't like something, they don't like something.
The forum is full of people telling others they are wrong. Wrong for not liking something and that by not liking something, they will be ignored AND it will not have any effect on the game.
Open a restaurant and tell your customers what they will like, cater to the drunks that show up everyday, and see how long you stay in biz.
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lol
If someone doesn't like something, they don't like something.
yes, you are correct on this.
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btw not saying I'm a huge fan on NOE missions, just something different to do. Now it's not there. Just like tanking is something different to do, sometimes necessary, but not why I play and lets face it, tanking is not really that hot in this game. But if it were removed, would again be something missing and one less thing to do.
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I'm not so happy with this radar change, yet all the discussions in the world regarding the radar doesn't really matter. In my 5.5 yrs with the game, I've yet to see an arena enviromental change reversed, so let's just get used to it.
I know of some.
1. The field capture path system.
2. The strat system.
HiTech
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I know of some.
1. The field capture path system.
I was to say it... but wasn't it just tested in one of the 2 LW arenas for some time? :headscratch:
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So in other words, they would cease to be BnZers and become furballers? :lol
When they decide they would like to come down and fight, yes...I sure ain't goin up to find them....lol
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When they decide they would like to come down and fight, yes...I sure ain't goin up to find them....lol
Nope that's my job!!! :D
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lol
If someone doesn't like something, they don't like something.
The forum is full of people telling others they are wrong. Wrong for not liking something and that by not liking something, they will be ignored AND it will not have any effect on the game.
Open a restaurant and tell your customers what they will like, cater to the drunks that show up everyday, and see how long you stay in biz.
:rolleyes: ... This has nothing to do with what I quoted you on and responded to.
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With games such as IL2 sat in the wings waiting to take your £130 a year paying gamers from you. Can you say in confidence that with all the opposition to this DAR change amongst the forums, is to change the MA for the better? For the perk collecting rank caring fighters, maybe..
Some squads quite clearly enjoy land grabbing war winning NOE missions, and some (one myself) like escorting these NOE missions. By taking such a drastic measure to 'impact' NOE missions and their game. Do you not feel that you might be gaining resentment from those players, as you've taken an enjoyable element out of the game?
:headscratch:
Is it not the responsibility for the opposing countries to formulate better tactics against NOE mission players, rather than just trying to make out they don't like a flight?
Any one else get the feeling the Objective Squad Mission gamers are being punished? :frown:
Having the choice between new DAR and old DAR rooms is a good compromise. At least the forum would clear up for a while and there would be :cheers:
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Just because HT made a change, dosn't mean it was for the best. And I think you missed the point..AGAIN.
So far, I haven't seen any negatives to the changes and has been a positive change for the game play. The added bonus are all the whines it's generated.
ack-ack
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btw not saying I'm a huge fan on NOE missions, just something different to do. Now it's not there.
It is there, you can still do NOE missions, that option has not been removed. The problem with you and others is you do not want to adapt to the changes and want the status quo to remain because it was easier for you. Now that you actually might have to work at flying a NOE missions and *GASP* face the very likely prospect of having to fight, you guys are screaming to high Heaven about how you can't NOE anymore. As I told someone else, adapt or get off the pot.
ack-ack
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So far, I haven't seen any negatives to the changes and has been a positive change for the game play. The added bonus are all the whines it's generated.
ack-ack
Dale's laughing as much as we are.
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So you are being "punished" since they made a change to the game that allows others a little more time to defend a target. What % of players should just sit and wait in the tower, trying to find the next incoming NOE raid? In my experience (both flying in, and against them) most of the well organized NOE raids could go from base flash, to base capture, within 7-9 minutes. That did not allow much time for any real defense even if someone tried to defend it.
As Hitech stated, prior to these changes he felt that the old settings promoted an "offensive only" environment when it came to win the war, land grabbing. Now it will hopefully be more balanced with more opportunity to defend attacks is all. This does not stop anyone from focusing on capturing bases, it just means it may be harder to do in the future is all.
All HTC is trying to do is create a balanced environment where ALL forms of aerial combat and tactics can be used.
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With games such as IL2 sat in the wings waiting to take your £130 a year paying gamers from you. Can you say in confidence that with all the opposition to this DAR change amongst the forums, is to change the MA for the better? For the perk collecting rank caring fighters, maybe..
IL2 has been out for a long time already, and it hasn't impacted AH since it's been around. Bad analogy.
Some squads quite clearly enjoy land grabbing war winning NOE missions, and some (one myself) like escorting these NOE missions. By taking such a drastic measure to 'impact' NOE missions and their game. Do you not feel that you might be gaining resentment from those players, as you've taken an enjoyable element out of the game?
The option to run a NOE mission or to escort said mission has not been taken away from you at all. You and your squadron can still run NOE missions and escort them. The only change is that now you have to actually 'fly' NOE missions and not just hit auto-level at 250ft and fly to the target.
As I mentioned in the reply to Sincraft, you fly NOE hord missions because it was the easiest way to an undefended base quickly without having to risk facing large opposition, or ideally (in your minds) none at all. Now that you have to work at it, you're crying how you can't NOE and milk run undefended bases anymore.
The way I see it, you and the others crying about it are nothing but selfish players. You didn't give a rat's bellybutton that your style of game play was having a negative impact on the over all game play of the main arena, as long as you were able to run your NOE hord missions, capture undefended bases and slap yourselves on the back for rolling as many bases you can in an hour. HiTech, seeing that there was an issue with the game play that these NOE missions were responsible for made the decision he felt was best for his game (and he was spot on with his resolution).
:headscratch:
Is it not the responsibility for the opposing countries to formulate better tactics against NOE mission players, rather than just trying to make out they don't like a flight?
Is it not the responsibility of you and your "ilk" to learn to adapt to the new changes instead of crying about them on the forums like a petulant child having a temper tantrum because their mommy won't buy a candy bar for them?
Any one else get the feeling the Objective Squad Mission gamers are being punished? :frown:
Having the choice between new DAR and old DAR rooms is a good compromise. At least the forum would clear up for a while and there would be :cheers:
No, and this statement is as ridiculous as the claims from a few years ago from the mega-squadrons that accused HiTech of being anti-squadron.
ack-ack
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So you are being "punished" since they made a change to the game that allows others a little more time to defend a target. What % of players should just sit and wait in the tower, trying to find the next incoming NOE raid? In my experience (both flying in, and against them) most of the well organized NOE raids could go from base flash, to base capture, within 7-9 minutes. That did not allow much time for any real defense even if someone tried to defend it.
As Hitech stated, prior to these changes he felt that the old settings promoted an "offensive only" environment when it came to win the war, land grabbing. Now it will hopefully be more balanced with more opportunity to defend attacks is all. This does not stop anyone from focusing on capturing bases, it just means it may be harder to do in the future is all.
All HTC is trying to do is create a balanced environment where ALL forms of aerial combat and tactics can be used.
The Happy Meal Generation doesn't want to hear that. :D
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IL2 has been out for a long time already, and it hasn't impacted AH since it's been around. Bad analogy.
The option to run a NOE mission or to escort said mission has not been taken away from you at all. You and your squadron can still run NOE missions and escort them. The only change is that now you have to actually 'fly' NOE missions and not just hit auto-level at 250ft and fly to the target.
As I mentioned in the reply to Sincraft, you fly NOE hord missions because it was the easiest way to an undefended base quickly without having to risk facing large opposition, or ideally (in your minds) none at all. Now that you have to work at it, you're crying how you can't NOE and milk run undefended bases anymore.
The way I see it, you and the others crying about it are nothing but selfish players. You didn't give a rat's bellybutton that your style of game play was having a negative impact on the over all game play of the main arena, as long as you were able to run your NOE hord missions, capture undefended bases and slap yourselves on the back for rolling as many bases you can in an hour. HiTech, seeing that there was an issue with the game play that these NOE missions were responsible for made the decision he felt was best for his game (and he was spot on with his resolution).
Is it not the responsibility of you and your "ilk" to learn to adapt to the new changes instead of crying about them on the forums like a petulant child having a temper tantrum because their mommy won't buy a candy bar for them?
No, and this statement is as ridiculous as the claims from a few years ago from the mega-squadrons that accused HiTech of being anti-squadron.
ack-ack
Your refusal to see or listen to an opinion by calling names and pointing leads me to illegitemise any of your posts i see..
So before i break Rule 4 i refuse to engage with you ..again.
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It is there, you can still do NOE missions, that option has not been removed. The problem with you and others is you do not want to adapt to the changes and want the status quo to remain because it was easier for you. Now that you actually might have to work at flying a NOE missions and *GASP* face the very likely prospect of having to fight, you guys are screaming to high Heaven about how you can't NOE anymore. As I told someone else, adapt or get off the pot.
ack-ack
said the man with almost 15k posts. My point exactly. The change catered to 'you' folks. And who said I was complaining about how I can't NOE anymore? I just NOE'd into two bases yesterday and dropped their ords.
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So you are being "punished" since they made a change to the game that allows others a little more time to defend a target. What % of players should just sit and wait in the tower, trying to find the next incoming NOE raid? In my experience (both flying in, and against them) most of the well organized NOE raids could go from base flash, to base capture, within 7-9 minutes. That did not allow much time for any real defense even if someone tried to defend it.
As Hitech stated, prior to these changes he felt that the old settings promoted an "offensive only" environment when it came to win the war, land grabbing. Now it will hopefully be more balanced with more opportunity to defend attacks is all. This does not stop anyone from focusing on capturing bases, it just means it may be harder to do in the future is all.
All HTC is trying to do is create a balanced environment where ALL forms of aerial combat and tactics can be used.
Trust me, I would enjoy this moreso than to see all bases vamped via NOE. Why anyone would sit in the tower waiting for the next NOE is beyond me. I surely never did that. I agree the game should be an offensive effort, but drastic changes that completely shut down part of the game for many folks is a bit harsh.
Heck, why not just get it over with, ONE GIANT radar that also doubles as a depth finder?
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double post fail sorry
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Your refusal to see or listen to an opinion by calling names and pointing leads me to illegitemise any of your posts i see..
So before i break Rule 4 i refuse to engage with you ..again.
I see you're continuing to claim that I'm 'name calling' to avoid having to answer the question I originally posed to you, typical behavior of your type.
ack-ack
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said the man with almost 15k posts. My point exactly. The change catered to 'you' folks. And who said I was complaining about how I can't NOE anymore? I just NOE'd into two bases yesterday and dropped their ords.
The change doesn't cater to anyone. The change was made solely for game play reasons, nothing else affected HiTech's decision other than that. He didn't cave into those of us that like to fight, he saw something seriously wrong with the game play caused by these massed NOE hord raids and made the necessary changes to get to improve the general game play of the arena. From where I stand, his decision caters to all that subscribe to the game, after all, isn't the main objective of this game combat?
ack-ack
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who said I was complaining about how I can't NOE anymore? I just NOE'd into two bases yesterday and dropped their ords.
drastic changes that completely shut down part of the game for many folks is a bit harsh.
...wait, what? Is it shut down, or isn't it shut down? I'm confused now...
NOE is now tough to do, as it should be. Flying under radar should not be the path of least resistance.
Everything in this game, to one degree or another is a risk versus reward. The alt monkey that perches above the fight gets 'rewarded' with survival, but he doesn't generally get as many kills as the guy that's mixing it up in the middle of the fight. Fighting as a BnZer still takes some attention to the situation, and skill.
Rolling bases NOE under the 500 foot dar limit required the ability to hit autolevel and wait a bit before jaboing with the added bonus that you're undetectable by the other side until the base starts to flash.
I don't think that level of risk should reward you with a virtually undefended base.
Wiley.
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I see you're continuing to claim that I'm 'name calling' to avoid having to answer the question I originally posed to you, typical behavior of your type.
ack-ack
Reread what you type, you accuse, assume and name call, "frightened of a fight" "pentulant Child" etc. I won't be drawn into your kind of argument. I think you like to be outspoken...
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Reread what you type, you accuse, assume and name call, "frightened of a fight" "pentulant Child" etc. I won't be drawn into your kind of argument. I think you like to be outspoken...
Get some thicker skin if you find "frightened of a fight" and "petulant child" to be insulting. Again, you're just using this as an excuse to dodge a question you don't have an answer to.
ack-ack
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ack-ack it's not about answers or think skin, i put down an opinion on how the changes affect gameplay, you go and insult me because you don't agree with it. You are unable to see past your own view and refuse to understand others.
I'm here to pass on my view in a mature way as part of the $15 i pay only to be insulted by you on a constant basis. I find some parts you type out are hypocritical and very childish in part.
My wishlist;
2 arenas with different dar settings as a choise
ack-ack have his keyboard privaliges he takes for granted removed :pray
:devil
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ack-ack it's not about answers or think skin, i put down an opinion on how the changes affect my gameplay, you go and insult me because you don't agree with it. You are unable to see past your own view and refuse to understand others.
I'm here to pass on my view in a mature way as part of the $15 i pay only to be insulted by you on a constant basis. I find some parts you type out are hypocritical and very childish in parts.
My wishlist;
2 arenas with different dar settings as a choise
ack-ack have his keyboard privaliges he takes for granted removed :pray
:devil
Your posts are just as childish and hypocritical.
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Yeah i kinda worded that bit wrong... edited, so you can pick-pick more...
(I hate this "community", should take my money else where. :frown:)
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Glen69 here are a couple of points for you to consider;
1.) You are not going to get your first wish due to the statements I posted earlier from Hitech.
2.) The changes do not remove your ability to plan, lead, or participate in NOE attacks on any targets.
3.) If you state that you choose not to participate in these types of attacks any more due to the radar changes, Ack-Ack or anyone else on the boards has the right to ask why.
4.) If you don't answer the question, it is reasonable to assume that you have decided that NOE attacks are not worth the risk, because you might face a fight.
So unless you, or anyone else that is unhappy with the new settings, can explain why the new settings are not meeting the objective that Hitech explained. I suggest you learn how to deal with the changes. If you can articulate an alternative approach that would satisfy the objective of balancing offense and defense that would be an even better discussion. But asking to go back to the old settings without anything more than "it's unfair" or "HTC gave in" isn't very likely to happen.
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Glen69 here are a couple of points for you to consider;
1.) You are not going to get your first wish due to the statements I posted earlier from Hitech.
2.) The changes do not remove your ability to plan, lead, or participate in NOE attacks on any targets.
3.) If you state that you choose not to participate in these types of attacks any more due to the radar changes, Ack-Ack or anyone else on the boards has the right to ask why.
4.) If you don't answer the question, it is reasonable to assume that you have decided that NOE attacks are not worth the risk, because you might face a fight.
So unless you, or anyone else that is unhappy with the new settings, can explain why the new settings are not meeting the objective that Hitech explained. I suggest you learn how to deal with the changes. If you can articulate an alternative approach that would satisfy the objective of balancing offense and defense that would be an even better discussion. But asking to go back to the old settings without anything more than "it's unfair" or "HTC gave in" isn't very likely to happen.
Bingo!
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...wait, what? Is it shut down, or isn't it shut down? I'm confused now...
NOE is now tough to do, as it should be. Flying under radar should not be the path of least resistance.
Everything in this game, to one degree or another is a risk versus reward. The alt monkey that perches above the fight gets 'rewarded' with survival, but he doesn't generally get as many kills as the guy that's mixing it up in the middle of the fight. Fighting as a BnZer still takes some attention to the situation, and skill.
Rolling bases NOE under the 500 foot dar limit required the ability to hit autolevel and wait a bit before jaboing with the added bonus that you're undetectable by the other side until the base starts to flash.
I don't think that level of risk should reward you with a virtually undefended base.
Wiley.
Really Wiley, really? You're gunna come in here and spout off all that stuff, and I'm gunna agree?
It's just dirty for us to have the same opinion.
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Glen69 here are a couple of points for you to consider;
4.) If you don't answer the question, it is reasonable to assume that you have decided that NOE attacks are not worth the risk, because you might face a fight.
Why do you auto assume it's beacause of facing a fight? Less NOE mission mean less escort duty for me... Less escort duty equals less fights... Fighting the uppers is the best bit..
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LOL Oh crap... Well, that at least explains why my coffee turned into blood and I can hear hoofbeats outside...
<S> Zoney.
Wiley.
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Keep it PLEASE
perdweeb
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Less NOE mission mean less escort duty for me... Less escort duty equals less fights
Can you show your work on this theorem.
HiTech
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Why do you auto assume it's beacause of facing a fight? Less NOE mission mean less escort duty for me... Less escort duty equals less fights... Fighting the uppers is the best bit..
...are you effectively saying the best part of the game for you is vulching?
Wiley.
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Can you show your work on this theorem.
HiTech
Will withdrawing my monthly subscription suffice?
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...are you effectively saying the best part of the game for you is vulching?
Wiley.
Not vulching, turn fighting inbvetween base and town :aok
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Why do you auto assume it's beacause of facing a fight? Less NOE mission mean less escort duty for me... Less escort duty equals less fights... Fighting the uppers is the best bit..
Can you please explain why you are not running NOE missions?
or
Can you offer any other explanation as to why the group or groups you escorted are not running NOE missions?
I can't see any other plausible explanation other than an unwillingness to face the potential for a stronger defense. So please enlighten me with a direct response so I can understand better.
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Will withdrawing my monthly subscription suffice?
That will show him huh?
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Can you show your work on this theorem.
HiTech
He's backpedaling Dale. His Squad is one of three Rook Squads who in the past would bring 6+ NOE Lanc Missions to a field. Once uppers start to get the slightest advantage, they bail and move to another quiet part of the map and start again. They can no longer pad their scores with trivial amounts of undefended bases. Since the change I have yet to see an NOE capture happen when I'm on (against Knights).
Will withdrawing my monthly subscription suffice?
How old are you? Really, you tap dance around the truth and cannot even give a plausible response to this games Creator?
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Will withdrawing my monthly subscription suffice?
Now that's a mature response if I ever saw one. :huh
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Not vulching, turn fighting inbvetween base and town :aok
Ah. I guess that's not a strictly according-to-Hoyle vulc- er... enemy activity suppression.
Wiley.
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Now that's a mature response if I ever saw one. :huh
Thought i'd fight fire with fire.
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Yeah i kinda worded that bit wrong... edited, so you can pick-pick more...
(I hate this "community", should take my money else where. :frown:)
Lighten up, Francis.
Ack-Ack is NOT the community. You and I rate the same right to speak our opinions, within Forum rules.
Should I be insulted that you lumped me in with AH's leading contrarian? Or should Ack-Ack be insulted?
Normally, I dont name names, but, with 15,000+ posts, Ack-Ack is an institution.
Sincerely, get on with the game as there is still a lot of fun to be had. The Forums are not the game.
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It seemed to me that Hitech asked you a legitimate question and you responded rather immaturely.
I can understand how you can feel on the defensive in this discussion, but it really is in your best interest to respond maturely. If you can answer questions directly and provide real alternatives to your problem you have a much better chance of HTC listening to you. I have had several discussions with Hitech and others at HTC and they have always been willing to listen, as long as I presented my self well. Threatening to take your ball and go home isn't likely to work well.
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Thought i'd fight fire with fire.
Last few days I've seen many NOE's. Wow I see them 2 mins out oh my! Still can't stop those 20 plus plane missions. Well maybe if they put a noob in the goon, and run out of fuel. Vulching the field augering into buildings and kill shooting themselves. :D How low can you go! ;)
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So you are being "punished" since they made a change to the game that allows others a little more time to defend a target. What % of players should just sit and wait in the tower, trying to find the next incoming NOE raid? In my experience (both flying in, and against them) most of the well organized NOE raids could go from base flash, to base capture, within 7-9 minutes. That did not allow much time for any real defense even if someone tried to defend it.
As Hitech stated, prior to these changes he felt that the old settings promoted an "offensive only" environment when it came to win the war, land grabbing. Now it will hopefully be more balanced with more opportunity to defend attacks is all. This does not stop anyone from focusing on capturing bases, it just means it may be harder to do in the future is all.
All HTC is trying to do is create a balanced environment where ALL forms of aerial combat and tactics can be used.
It seems to me that the gv'ers are quite content to sit sometimes, what appears to be forever, to camp a spawn does this "promote combat" NO IT DOSENT! and if ALL forms of aerial combat can be used explain why you basically took away overland noe? NO! realistically it cant be done with any measure of efficacy.
Making a change for the better does not mean making it so your options are so limited. bombing isnt what it used to be unless you want to spend 25 min to climb to alt. I know you dont want to admit it but the game has LOST something. could the NOE have been adjusted...yes., BUT you went to far to "correct a problem"
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Last few days I've seen many NOE's. Wow I see them 2 mins out oh my! Still can't stop those 20 plus plane missions. Well maybe if they put a noob in the goon, and run out of fuel. Vulching the field augering into buildings and kill shooting themselves. :D How low can you go! ;)
Flight17 was upset last week because I shot down his goon that was landed on the beach about 10 miles North of A25 on the dweeb island map. I find the "NOE Noobs" really have lacking skills in most areas. I'd even be willing to personally assist some of them in the DA or TA, if only to improve their well-being. But, they go with what they know and what they know has come crashing down.
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for some reason my response to the htc's post....did'nt post ill have to get back to it
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for some reason my response to the htc's post....did'nt post ill have to get back to it
Also, when you quote someone, try to post your stuff AFTER the [/quote] portion. It won't get lost in the shuffle per se.
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Groundfeeder it's a little confusing that you put your response inside my previous post. Can you edit the post so that you're response is either highlighted or outside of my quoted statements?
Thank you
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It seemed to me that Hitech asked you a legitimate question and you responded rather immaturely.
I can understand how you can feel on the defensive in this discussion, but it really is in your best interest to respond maturely. If you can answer questions directly and provide real alternatives to your problem you have a much better chance of HTC listening to you. I have had several discussions with Hitech and others at HTC and they have always been willing to listen, as long as I presented my self well. Threatening to take your ball and go home isn't likely to work well.
Guys...Glen is whooped...its obvious that he can't vocalize his frustration because it driven directly from the pride obtained from the NOE successes of his past. Those future successes will now be dependent on his skill in fighting because of a greater chance of detection. Asking him to give you an honest answer is the same as asking an addict to admit he has a problem (that is an analogy, not a statement of fact or accusation) because it isn't going to happen.
Now, lets all kill this thread, allow Glen to get better at the game and allow him the opportunity go out there and kill us all fairly and squarely while being detected earlier on DAR...Glen, come get me...I am at a specific altitude, moving in a specific direction and I am a red dot. Go get um tiger.
V/r
Changeup
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ack-ack it's not about answers or think skin, i put down an opinion on how the changes affect gameplay, you go and insult me because you don't agree with it. You are unable to see past your own view and refuse to understand others.
I'm here to pass on my view in a mature way as part of the $15 i pay only to be insulted by you on a constant basis. I find some parts you type out are hypocritical and very childish in part.
My wishlist;
2 arenas with different dar settings as a choise
ack-ack have his keyboard privaliges he takes for granted removed :pray
:devil
All I've asked is how the new changes prevent you from doing NOE missions or turn fighting on the deck, each time you've dodged the question by claiming I'm flaming you and you won't risk a "see rule #4" in replying.
Adapt or get off the pot.
ack-ack
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Why do you auto assume it's beacause of facing a fight? Less NOE mission mean less escort duty for me... Less escort duty equals less fights... Fighting the uppers is the best bit..
You can always escort a regular bombing missions or conduct fighter sweeps and still get the fights you claim to seek.
ack-ack
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You can always escort a regular bombing missions or conduct fighter sweeps and still get the fights you claim to seek.
ack-ack
But then he would have to fight ac that are off the runway.
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I really really hate the new dar settings!
They are not realistic AT ALL!
To back that up, radar today CANNOT see an aircraft in terrain at 65 feet, in many of cases it cant see you at 1000 feet in higher terrain without the aid of a transponder equipped aircraft.
The dar rings you have now overlap fields and you cant even get off of the base without someone seeing you up on THIER radar.Bombers used to be able to fly deeper into enemy territory and the enemy had to at least look for them now they can go directly to them withe the extended range of the rings, and unless you fly the bombers at a higher altitude(time to climb takes away some enjoyment) you cant make a normal run.
I understand that you want to balance things out, but this shifts everything to the furballers.
65 feet is way to low, it slows the game down and it has a decidedly "arcade feel towards it" now.
I can go on and on how it will affect the game and I really hope you take this to heart, PLEASE give us the choice, one arena with the new settings, one without and see how the numbers stack up with similar maps.
The forums are a great way to voice an opinion, but many people dont read them and wont voice an opinion, one way or the other.
PLEASE GIVE US THE CHOICE !!!! one arena with and one without and let the player numbers decide the fate of the new settings
Before you rant, think of what this means, it's like a new challenge.
1. You gotta fly twice as well as you used to just to beat the radar
2. If you break radar early, you got to go through enemy fighters
3. You already have kills(unless you died, but you will learn and get better at fighting), and if you and your little team/squad still capture the base, it's much more satisfying cause you did a LOT more work to get it.
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But then he would have to fight ac that are off the runway.
Yup, he should leave that to the plethora of vulchers that are looking for a fight. :aok
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Changeup I appreciate your point and will likely not reply in this thread as I believe all the important points have been explained. However, I would like to finish with a response to groundfeeders post.
Groudfeeder here are a couple of point for you to consider;
1.) The radar setting changes were done to address a specific issue that HTC felt had to be addressed. If you feel that spawn-camping is an issue present an explanation of the problem and offer a few constructive ideas to solve it. I for one don't see any issue with "camping" because there are other balancing factors that make it hard for spawn-campers to live very long. This board has many complaints about people bombing GV's and in my opinion that balances out the campers.
2.) Can you show that NOE attacks can't be done with the new settings? I doubt you can, having seen a couple of successful NOE attacks with the new settings. All that you will be able to show is that there is a greater likelihood of a NOE attack facing more defense. That is exactly what HTC was trying to accomplish with these changes because they felt the game was tilted in favor of all offense and no defense.
3.) Can you show that bombing has been effected with the new settings? I doubt it see #2
4.) I will admit that with the new settings we lost the ability to fly between the radars of enemy bases on a deep bombing strike. However, that loss is insignificant compared to the previously unbalanced offense only arena settings. Remember as Hitech posted, this game is about combat (all forms of it, from bombing to base taking to fur balling) in a balanced environment. If you are trying to manipulate the environment to avoid combat then you're going against the core of what the game is based on.
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My number one complaint when I fly on squad night is (was?) the inability to find a fight. We would spend the majority of the night looking at darbar, tea leaves, cat guts and the alignment of the planets and stars trying to figure out where the fight might be. And at 11 PM central, even though there were still 200 people online the fight would completely disappear and we would all go to bed.
But this last squad night we found a fight without consulting the Ouija board or the Dalai Lama. It still pretty much died at 11 PM which I refer to as the "Tanking Hour". Apparently, the state of Tennessee has a law that all AH players must drive tanks at 11 PM. Seems that way to me anyway.
The dar settings seem to be a step in the right direction. Smaller maps with less than 800 fields would help too IMNSHO.
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double post
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The change doesn't cater to anyone. The change was made solely for game play reasons, nothing else affected HiTech's decision other than that. He didn't cave into those of us that like to fight, he saw something seriously wrong with the game play caused by these massed NOE hord raids and made the necessary changes to get to improve the general game play of the arena. From where I stand, his decision caters to all that subscribe to the game, after all, isn't the main objective of this game combat?ack-ack
"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High." -- first line under gameplay in the Aces High manual on this website.
Some of you need to sit back and read your responses. Folks don't like this change and see it as dampening their enjoyment of the game. Why the need to jump all over them because they choose to voice their opinion or characterize them as immature or childish? Immaturity seems to be a pendulum on this board not limited to any one side of the argument.
For my two cents, I am not stressed about the limitation of noe's as much as i am worried about what the natural response will be. The basetakers will continue to want to take bases so I am fearing a return to the days of shutting down bases completely and a return of the "super horde" if you will....I hope this does not occur but I have confidence that Dale will address this if it does. Of note, these were the environments that ENCOURAGED the growth of the megasquadrons in the past. :salute
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I just spent 15 min trying to write a response and the system wouldn't let me post................short version
I'm done with this thread, no more responses. I'm done with the general discussion forum. Still like the help end of the forums.
HTC's responses where condescending at best. People PAY to play the game, if you dint like their opinions don't let anyone post. We don't deserve the childlike response and your attitude was unprofessional at best.
By now we all know what has been done to the game and what it has lost, (no constant furball is not a gain) so no further need to respond.
Some of the people in here responded just to try and upset others, bad move, people will have an idea what type of person you are in real life, have i done it....absolutely! but i catch myself and shut it down. It seems some are incapable of that act.
It's HTC's world and I'm just visiting...... albeit a bit less.
To the all, and I do mean all , Who took the time to respond :salute
Good luck..........Godspeed....... ...Check six :bolt:
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Dale's laughing as much as we are.
That would be most unfortunate...but many on this board claim to know HTC's thoughts.....I hope they are exaggerating their insight :salute
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I'll make it personal so dig those teeth in and pick-pick it to death...
My favorite part of the old DAR system was going on NOE missions as escorts, never knowing whether the NME would get wise (or spy) and bounce on the bombers. It was upto the NME to look for fields flashing and investigating. And up to me to make sure they made target
25ft between tree tops and alarming nme is a tall order for any bomber pilot over rolling terrain. With this fact, NOEs will be rare except across water. With the this element made rare, much of the exitement has already been removed from me, as low Bombers on dar are worm food... Yes you can still NOE blah blah blah, but not in a numerous NOE close support escort needing way. The race against GVs getting to town and the race to intercept uppers for me has been diluted.
I dont have all day to fight over 1 field capture, I want to be able to make a difference to the 'war effort' in the short time that i have. Squad up, mission up, gain ground upon the NME makes it worth while. The NME counldn't adapt to the NOE stategy so they the rules changed for them, forcing us who enjoy the exitment of NOEs to hypacritically;Adapt or get off the pot.
ack-ack
I personally dont like fighting higher than 5k (the only reason i fly higher is because i have to adapt to the threat of BnZers), and anyone thats shot me down will know that i'm one of the 1st to go in when the numbers are against me, just for the fun of it. I am a lower ability pilot and have only ever been Top pilot once on a snapshot, i can't BnZ and it takes much/all of my consentration to turn fight.
Fights don't worry me, stagnent furballs over and inbetween bases does. The DA is for ppl that want to fight and be all macho over how they flew and shot the other guy down, I want to be with my squad doing what we do best, having fun taking bases, winning the war. For me there is no payback.. no objective.. for furballing and BnZing, but those aspects are in the game and i adapt, i can adapt to these changes but having a choice rather than having the decision made for me is a better compromise. Now i have to fly high in the sky escorting bombers on porking runs, chasing off the nme and running back to the bombers... It's a role, but i'd rather in the thick of it on the deck turn fighting with the defenders every 10-20mins than waiting 30mins for the bombers to get to alt and then go in. Not very fulfilling doing a few 30-60min porker escort runs and base shut down runs then having to get off.
Making assumptions leads to the mother of all screw ups... And i didn't want to type a essay over it.
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"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High." -- first line under gameplay in the Aces High manual on this website.
"Welcome to the Internet's Premiere WWII and WWI Combat Experience"...notice it doesn't say "Welcome to the Internet's Premiere WWII and WWI Base Capturing Experience"?
ack-ack
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So you can't fly above the dar because....?
Radiation?
(http://anotherlovelyblogbysomesweetheart.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/tin-foil-hat.jpg)
I think I'm just missing the correlation with the new radar changes and how it affects your fights. Once someone actually sees you, the height of radar doesn't matter.
If the problem is you can no longer fly NOE and people find you easier, it goes against any argument about liking the fight the way it was.
Enlighten me.
"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High." -- first line under gameplay in the Aces High manual on this website.
Some of you need to sit back and read your responses. Folks don't like this change and see it as dampening their enjoyment of the game. Why the need to jump all over them because they choose to voice their opinion or characterize them as immature or childish? Immaturity seems to be a pendulum on this board not limited to any one side of the argument.
For my two cents, I am not stressed about the limitation of noe's as much as i am worried about what the natural response will be. The basetakers will continue to want to take bases so I am fearing a return to the days of shutting down bases completely and a return of the "super horde" if you will....I hope this does not occur but I have confidence that Dale will address this if it does. Of note, these were the environments that ENCOURAGED the growth of the megasquadrons in the past. :salute
Again, how has the change to radar disrupted either of these? You can still capture territory. It may require actually capturing it now.
And, the return of the super horde? It never left.
I don't know. Maybe playing football with opposition that can't find your team to stop them from scoring would be fun?
wrongway
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"Welcome to the Internet's Premiere WWII and WWI Combat Experience"...notice it doesn't say "Welcome to the Internet's Premiere WWII and WWI Base Capturing Experience"?
ack-ack
In your original statement you asked if combat wasn't the OBJECTIVE of AH....I simply quoted the first line under gameplay that used the term "objective"....not sure why this is a point of confusion? Of course I would expect a ww2 based game to have a great combat experience but i would be disappointed if simply providing combat was the sole aspect of the game. Your argument isn't with me in this case anyway...it would be with HTC for his verbage in the manual. You posed a question that was easily answered with clicking on the online game manual. Sorry if it wasn't the answer you expected. :salute
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So you can't fly above the dar because....?
Radiation?
(http://anothertoejamtyblogbysomesweetheart.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/tin-foil-hat.jpg)
I think I'm just missing the correlation with the new radar changes and how it affects your fights. Once someone actually sees you, the height of radar doesn't matter.
If the problem is you can no longer fly NOE and people find you easier, it goes against any argument about liking the fight the way it was.
Enlighten me.
Again, how has the change to radar disrupted either of these? You can still capture territory. It may require actually capturing it now.
And, the return of the super horde? It never left.
I don't know. Maybe playing football with opposition that can't find your team to stop them from scoring would be fun?
wrongway
Using your football analogy...though i think it is off base, i would respond that if one football team is much bigger and stronger then the other...then the other team having OPTIONS available to even the playing field would be preferable to getting rolled nonstop and always losing...
Also using your football analogy..if someone abruptly changed the rules to limit the ease of scoring touchdwons so that it would become near impossible without the use of brute force...i.e. removed the ability to outscheme rather then purely outfight....then the game may lose interest to those who like scoring touchdowns....
To illustrate, say old school football players said "football is about running the ball over and over again and this passing thing is detracting fromt he game by allowing quick scores. Hail Mary's should be banned and no more passes over 10 yeards so we compact the field...." you get the idea
Hope that helps :salute
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"Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective in Aces High." -- first line under gameplay in the Aces High manual on this website.
Where are you finding this?
What "manual" are we talking about here.
I looked for a "gameplay" link on the flyaceshigh.com homepage and didn't fine one.
(edit: found it buried in the Help section under Playing the Game in Game Information)
I DID find a "gameplay" at the AH Wiki btw..
Have fun, and place the fight above all else!
First line under Features on the AH website says...
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war.
and Dale says...
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
So I would think that combat is what this game is all about.
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The football analogy is very good.
Problem was in this francise our NOE football teams wanted to put 66 guys on the feild and start the game hours before the 11 guys from the opposing standard team ever got out of bed. HiTech did nothing to change the 66 man team members, he just made it so the standard 11 man team could be on the feild to try and oppose the 66 man team's touch down attempts. All of the complaints seem lame up to this point because the 66 man NOE Teams are saying it isn't fair to let the 11 man standard team on the feild while they score touchdowns.
You can't have a football game in theory with only one of two teams on the feild scoring goals. The single team will win 100% of the time and never have to compete against anyone. HiTech decided to put the second team on the feild to have a competitive game. He owns the whole franchise so he can do as he see's fit.
By the way groundfeeder, I've been playing on Dale's COAD for 20 some years now. Experience counts far more than paying for the right to speak with miniscule time playing on the COAD. Ack-Ack has that experience. Many groundfeeders have come and gone on Dale's COAD because they wanted the game to be easy mode and Dale to COAD it to suit their timid temperment when they sqweeked at him. You cannot have a football game with only one large team on the feild.
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I'm bettin on all the trees in the new terrain design being 66 feet tall. :bolt:
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Changeup I appreciate your point and will likely not reply in this thread as I believe all the important points have been explained. However, I would like to finish with a response to groundfeeders post.
:salute Sir
I think groundfeeder and the others have made their points and they are entitled to them. That's what the forum is for...they won't change us and we won't change them on this subject so we all have our opinions...whoopdee. Its a game and in the fine words of my friend Dodger, "ITS ABOUT THE FIGHT"....and with some discussions behind Dodger and I, I think I can safely say he means, "Any fight you can get your hands on." Die, rub some dirt on it, re-up and get um...anything else is time you (read: anyone reading and writing in this thread) wont get back...lol...including here.
V/r
Changeup
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So I would think that combat is what this game is all about.
Don't bother Lute... some of the guys in here do more combat on the forums than they'll ever do in the skies of AH.
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Where are you finding this?
Official AH help page, topic "Game Information", subtopic "Playing the game"
http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/map.html
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well, whatever they feel is needed to bring in more subs is what I think they need to do. If I were a betting man, I would venture to say they have lost about 1500 subscriptions per month vs this time last year. That's a pretty large chunk of their subs.
I've seen the death spiral of several games. Especially smaller games. Usually drastic radical changes instead of new content is what they do before 'the end'. I hope they are busy with something new other than airplanes and 2001-2003 graphic updates. Something that will change how this game is played.
OR
I hope they go on an ad blitz and bring in many new sticks. Before doing that though, I would suggest a comprehensive method for people to understand how to play the game, in game instructions and tutorials. From plugging in a joystick, taking off etc etc. Explaining from the start that while this is not a simulation, shooting down aircraft is a difficult process...at first expect to be shot down many times before landing your first kills. I've had a few people try the game out, but complained it lacked any type of guideance and was too hard. I had to laugh at that because for me, joining and playing was a pleasant surprised over ww2online when I joined....years? ago. But...whatever, if they think its too hard then fine, let them eat quake.
BUT, they do need to find a way to attract new sticks. Again, catering to the guys who log 8 hours a day in this game and on the forums is NOT..repeat NOT going to keep the game alive. And from my seat, and in my years of experience, I'm sensing a steady decline down. Maybe fall/winter will give it a boost though.
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Where are you finding this?
What "manual" are we talking about here.
I looked for a "gameplay" link on the flyaceshigh.com homepage and didn't fine one.
(edit: found it buried in the Help section under Playing the Game in Game Information)
I DID find a "gameplay" at the AH Wiki btw..
First line under Features on the AH website says...
and Dale says...
So I would think that combat is what this game is all about.
Lute,
goto main page and click on <game info>---<help>---<game info>---<playing the game>
tada...Lusche pointed it out once
:salute
edit: bah Lusche beat me to it....se above :cool:
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If I were a betting man, I would venture to say they have lost about 1500 subscriptions per month vs this time last year.
(http://www.public.iastate.edu/~teddo/orly.png)
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(http://www.public.iastate.edu/~teddo/orly.png)
Hahah I haven't seen the ORLY Bird used in ages!
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Be nice Grizz.
I vuagely remember Sincraft and HiTech have a history of Sincraft telling HiTech how he will withold his alimony payments unless HiTech agrees Sincraft knows more than he does about running his own business. Suppose its not the best way to ask to be a companies Marketing VP by dissing it's owner in public........ :angel:
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well, whatever they feel is needed to bring in more subs is what I think they need to do. If I were a betting man, I would venture to say they have lost about 1500 subscriptions per month vs this time last year.
I'll take that bet.
My quick and dirty and, admittedly, unscientific research of June LW tours show numbers may actually be up. If they are down, it is by about as much as I calculate they are up.
+/- 10%?
Like I said, very much guess work.
Numbers overall were very consistent, even going back 5 years.
BUT, they do need to find a way to attract new sticks. Again, catering to the guys who log 8 hours a day in this game and on the forums is NOT..repeat NOT going to keep the game alive. And from my seat, and in my years of experience, I'm sensing a steady decline down. Maybe fall/winter will give it a boost though.
I again fail to see how this change would drive off a new player as it is not a change for them. As far as they know, it's always been this way.
Do you think a new player would be more attracted to instant, easy to find action or flying around without being able to find the enemy or, even better, sneaking around avoiding the enemy.
Can we assume someone looking for an online aircraft combat game would like to actually engage in combat?
Remember, this is the age of instant gratification. The "I want it now" generation. No one has the patience or the time to search around for the enemy.
What about the "I logged on for a little while and couldn't find any fights" types. Now it's easier to find a fight.
If anything, this should actually attract new players because there's less boring, flying to find the enemy and more action.
wrongway
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(If you look I edited the post saying I found it buried there in the Help section)
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I'm bettin on all the trees in the new terrain design being 66 feet tall. :bolt:
One can only hope.