Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Perrine on October 17, 2010, 04:02:19 PM
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Yesterday she just uttered something that you'll never hear in the USA :uhoh
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Shes right, its not working here either, but noone will admit t.
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We have our own model and it works, but is being sorely tested by South of The Border horde of the 1980s and 90s. We get some trickle from the Pacific, but they come with skills, language (with accent of course) and with hopes of creating wealth beyond their dreams and contribute to the masses. I'm not sure those from North Atlantic would even want to settle here anymore since we don't have mandatory public services that they universally consider a "human right".
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Lol, I wonder how long this can go on without anyone directly speaking to what it's about
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Lol, I wonder how long this can go on without anyone directly speaking to what it's about
I'd say about 10 more posts
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I think the 'group hug' mentality of a universal society is better suited to its current demographic, given the centuries of conflict it took for them to figure it out.
I don't think the west has grown up enough, yet. Not saying that's a bad thing, but when you're the biggest kid on the block you can pretty much do what you want.
Trying to reach that 10-post goal.
J
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Just to get it to seven...
I'm not touching it with a 10 ft pole
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Yeah, soccer fan's feelings get ruffled easily anyway. :neener:
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I think the 'group hug' mentality of a universal society is better suited to its current demographic, given the centuries of conflict it took for them to figure it out.
I don't think the west has grown up enough, yet. Not saying that's a bad thing, but when you're the biggest kid on the block you can pretty much do what you want.
Trying to reach that 10-post goal.
J
I'm not 100% sure of the outlook (but I'm leaning glum) of the countries situated east of the north atlantic, but the 3rd most populous country sandwiched between the atlantic and the pacific is still a work in progress, although being tested right now. Also I have to say the greatest impact in that country that's overlooked by most of its population was when 42 Statutes-at-Large 5 and 3 Statutes-at-Large 153 were effectively nullified by 79 Statutes-at-Large 911, the trends set by it will continue into the future. I also predict that later in the twenty-first century the future for number one and number three of the world's most populous country will continue to be dynamic filled with vibrancy and healthy dose of optimism, while the countries situated east of the north atlantic, if they do not make changes regarding to demographic trends and economics, will slowly fade from the global stage resigned and its population disheartened just like when world's second largest economy was displaced to third spot just two months ago.
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I'm a minority in my state.
My state also has a lower than average IQ, can you guess why?
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^^^^HAHAHA WOW!
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I would say the West, and the US in particular has about the best record in history in this arena. As a matter of fact, most of our population has done exceedingly well. --- Whats causing trouble is the folks that want to be here, but have no interest in success IN this arena.
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I'm a minority in my state.
Factors...
1. History
2. migration trends due to 79 Statutes-at-Large 911
3. A certain segment of the demographic, as defined by the USCB and FOMB, are failing to maintain or fulfill the recomended fertility rate to assuredly secure high percentage of the overall pie.
Regarding to IQ tests/levels, here's a good, concise read on IQ test and levels (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_IQ_tests_really_accurate_and_are_their_results_a_reliable_indicator_of_one%27s_true_level_of_intelligence)
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I assure you, the thugs in this area have an IQ of 12.
Very few members of this population actually have the want to make something of themselves.
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Except babies. :uhoh
BooYaah!
<S> MelvIN
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Except babies. :uhoh
BooYaah!
<S> MelvIN
We had one girl that I knew in middle school.
got pregnant in 5th grade, had it in sixth grade and then got pregnant right after she had the first baby.
She is up to 5 and she is a sophomore in high school.
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I wouldn't attribute that to IQ, or lack thereof. I think that's just a case of bad parenting.
She was obviously smart enough to figure out what went where and why.
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I wouldn't attribute that to IQ, or lack thereof. I think that's just a case of bad parenting.
She was obviously smart enough to figure out what went where and why.
Not smart enough to know that doing drugs and drinking while your pregnant is bad.
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I assure you, the thugs in this area have an IQ of 12.
This is failure of combating delinquent behavior on a micro level.
On a macro level they can be dealth with swiftly, promptly.
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This thread has spun off a tangent completely unrelated to Angela Merkel's comments.
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As a matter of fact, most of our population has done exceedingly well. --- Whats causing trouble is the folks that want to be here, but have no interest in success IN this arena.
(some) businessmen and sectors of industry in a country where this poster reside wholeheartedly welcome migrants to maintain favorable revenue/expense ratio. Any disturbances to this is not favorable to get good revenue/expense ratio
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Lol, I wonder how long this can go on without anyone directly speaking to what it's about
Do a google beej. Wow. I'm with the "not touching it with a 10 ft. pole" crowd. :bolt:
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(some) businessmen and sectors of industry in a country where this poster reside wholeheartedly welcome migrants to maintain favorable revenue/expense ratio. Any disturbances to this is not favorable to get good revenue/expense ratio
Need it built and they will come....
wrongway
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This thread has spun off a tangent completely unrelated to Angela Merkel's comments.
(now back on rails)
During these past decades, mass migration had been advocated in countries east of north atlantic in order to fuel the post war growth, and more recently simply to compensate the demographic decline. A recurrent motto is "we need them to pay for our retirement pensions!". The latter is a sad, sorry outlook. No dynamicism, vibrancy and ambition :frown:
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Here let me put it in perspective:
This was pulled off of Craigs List in the San Francisco Area about 1 minute ago...filed under help wanted - skilled trades.
Remodel contractor looking for experienced carpenter with cabinet installation, electrical, and plumbing experience. Must have vehicle, own tools and clean driving record. We have projects all over the greater Bay Area; some commuting may be required. Pay starting at $26.00 per hour. Please reply with resume and references.
Now let me refine it:
30 years ago as an "experienced carpenter" fitting the above description I made 30-35 bucks an hour cash...of course then I needed to only provide my own hand tools, and my truck was not turned into a company truck by act of my employment...
Now I am a contractor today and have been one for many many years...but the fact of the matter is that real world wages by real Americans over the last 30 years in construction has not grown one nano-meter...in fact it has fallen...
The double edge sword is that inflation has tripled the cost of living...and has had an even more deleterious effect if one factors in the cost of energy...
Clue: More and more people competing for resources and employment will drive the cost of resources up, the wage of the employed down...
Open Borders?...Multiculturalism?...Wake up...
You can keep it...it destroys lives and degrades the American experience...
< Thread Killer or Thought Provoker ?
Edit: Any employer who hires an illegal should be jailed for 10 years and his business should be forfeited...that will fix the problem quick...
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(now back on rails)
During these past decades, mass migration had been advocated in countries east of north atlantic in order to fuel the post war growth, and more recently simply to compensate the demographic decline. A recurrent motto is "we need them to pay for our retirement pensions!". The latter is a sad, sorry outlook. No dynamicism, vibrancy and ambition :frown:
Clue: Illegals paying into SSN and Medicare with fraudulent documents never collect on benefits or tax refunds...thus...the infrastructure in place will never do anything to fix the 'problem'
Why?: because its pure nonrefundable capital inflow to the broken system...money is power...power is money...
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(http://www.enewspf.com/images/stories/pfpd/jeep-light-pole-062008.jpg)
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We had one girl that I knew in middle school.
got pregnant in 5th grade, had it in sixth grade and then got pregnant right after she had the first baby.
She is up to 5 and she is a sophomore in high school.
ya.....wanna guess who's paying for her babies?
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ya.....wanna guess who's paying for her babies?
Me and you.
And all the other American taxpayers
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Me and you.
And all the other American taxpayers
yep..........
and that's about all i can say about that here, without getting myself the banstick from o absent one......although there are some very very ungood thought peculating in my head about punishment for sluts like her......
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Yep, I can think of several things to do to people that are a tax on society.
Did I mention she has 2 misdemeanors for drug posession?
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I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant. The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower.
When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.
A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.
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Wow. :uhoh
My sister-in-law just adopted a baby. I'm a new uncle, wooo-hooo. Mother was a 17-year old rich kid from NYC, parents took her to upstate NY to have the baby, as they didn't want to tarnish the young girl's private school reputation.
While I realize the what we're discussing, good or bad, a tax burden or no, let's not forget we're still talking about a baby.
This is my new niece Joanna...6 days old today!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/JoannasleepingOctober15.jpg)
J
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Wow. :uhoh
My sister-in-law just adopted a baby. I'm a new uncle, wooo-hooo. Mother was a 17-year old rich kid from NYC, parents took her to upstate NY to have the baby, as they didn't want to tarnish the young girl's private school reputation.
While I realize the what we're discussing, good or bad, a tax burden or no, let's not forget we're still talking about a baby.
This is my new niece Joanna...6 days old today!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/jherne/JoannasleepingOctober15.jpg)
J
congrats sir!! :aok
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Congrats Jherne :aok
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Here let me put it in perspective:
This was pulled off of Craigs List in the San Francisco Area about 1 minute ago...filed under help wanted - skilled trades.
Remodel contractor looking for experienced carpenter with cabinet installation, electrical, and plumbing experience. Must have vehicle, own tools and clean driving record. We have projects all over the greater Bay Area; some commuting may be required. Pay starting at $26.00 per hour. Please reply with resume and references.
Now let me refine it:
30 years ago as an "experienced carpenter" fitting the above description I made 30-35 bucks an hour cash...of course then I needed to only provide my own hand tools, and my truck was not turned into a company truck by act of my employment...
Now I am a contractor today and have been one for many many years...but the fact of the matter is that real world wages by real Americans over the last 30 years in construction has not grown one nano-meter...in fact it has fallen...
The double edge sword is that inflation has tripled the cost of living...and has had an even more deleterious effect if one factors in the cost of energy...
Clue: More and more people competing for resources and employment will drive the cost of resources up, the wage of the employed down...
Open Borders?...Multiculturalism?...Wake up...
You can keep it...it destroys lives and degrades the American experience...
< Thread Killer or Thought Provoker ?
Edit: Any employer who hires an illegal should be jailed for 10 years and his business should be forfeited...that will fix the problem quick...
Amen...
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I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant. The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower.
When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.
A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.
Amen to that, too...
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I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant. The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower.
When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.
A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.
Biologically, she's doing what is expected. Considering we are, as a species only a couple hundred years past an average life expectancy of 30 years, social dynamics aside.....it's what we do, at the basal level.
The issue is that culture and civilization has moved at a faster pace than what our evolutionary rate is, which is contributing to our gross overpopulation. Females (and males) at 16 are still programmed biologically to conceive children, no matter how much pressure you wish to assert from a moral viewpoint. Considering 200 years ago, she would already be past "middle age" and still had to raise that child to self sufficiency (another 10-14 years), that is still how we're "programmed".
It is only within the past 50-100 years that society (Western) has placed a value (need) upon waiting until later in life to conceive. Our biological roots are not so bound to those precepts. I have never seen the value of your high minded philosophic statements, eg ".....but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together...." in situations like you explained. Instead of helping, you judge someone by the consequences of their actions. Interesting viewpoint. Maybe you were the one person at 16, I've never talked to, who always wore protection, never barebacked once, while the young lady was using a form of birth control as well.
I've yet to find someone who was sexually active in the 15-25 year old range that didn't engage in some form of risk.
But, it's very easy to find opinionated folks everywhere, judging others by their situations, and by the self-perceived "burden" they are to society. It's both sick, and sad. :aok
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Biologically, she's doing what is expected. Considering we are, as a species only a couple hundred years past an average life expectancy of 30 years, social dynamics aside.....it's what we do, at the basal level.
The issue is that culture and civilization has moved at a faster pace than what our evolutionary rate is, which is contributing to our gross overpopulation. Females (and males) at 16 are still programmed biologically to conceive children, no matter how much pressure you wish to assert from a moral viewpoint. Considering 200 years ago, she would already be past "middle age" and still had to raise that child to self sufficiency (another 10-14 years), that is still how we're "programmed".
It is only within the past 50-100 years that society (Western) has placed a value (need) upon waiting until later in life to conceive. Our biological roots are not so bound to those precepts. I have never seen the value of your high minded philosophic statements, eg ".....but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together...." in situations like you explained. Instead of helping, you judge someone by the consequences of their actions. Interesting viewpoint. Maybe you were the one person at 16, I've never talked to, who always wore protection, never barebacked once, while the young lady was using a form of birth control as well.
I've yet to find someone who was sexually active in the 15-25 year old range that didn't engage in some form of risk.
But, it's very easy to find opinionated folks everywhere, judging others by their situations, and by the self-perceived "burden" they are to society. It's both sick, and sad. :aok
You been breathing that air from a tank too long, again? :D
It is a true and valid point that you make, but......
using our brains to override our "instinct" is one of the main things that separates us from the animals. :)
The problem is that, in today's society, most (I know not all) children born of a young mother, out of wedlock, are not cared for solely by the mother. The problem is when society has to foot the bill to take care of them. To me, it's not so much a moral issue (except the part where it is moral and decent to take care of a child that you helped conceive) as it is a logic issue.
I hold it in the same regard regardless of age, race, religion, marital status, etc.
If you can't feed 'em,. don't breed 'em.
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You been breathing that air from a tank too long, again? :D
It is a true and valid point that you make, but......
using our brains to override our "instinct" is one of the main things that separates us from the animals. :)
The problem is that, in today's society, most (I know not all) children born of a young mother, out of wedlock, are not cared for solely by the mother. The problem is when society has to foot the bill to take care of them. To me, it's not so much a moral issue (except the part where it is moral and decent to take care of a child that you helped conceive) as it is a logic issue.
I hold it in the same regard regardless of age, race, religion, marital status, etc.
If you can't feed 'em,. don't breed 'em.
"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us. There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else. At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others? By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds. Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?
Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick. It is inhumane and completely illogical. If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing. (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)
But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.
And we are no different from animals. We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world. Procreate, and pass on genes. There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.
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"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us. There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else. At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others? By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds. Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?
Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick. It is inhumane and completely illogical. If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing. (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)
But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.
And we are no different from animals. We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world. Procreate, and pass on genes. There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.
no one outside of family footed the bill to take care of me or my brother. my mother worked 2 jobs most of her life to pay for raising us, what she couldn't afford, my grandparents put in.
she never took welfare, unemployment, or anything else from a social program.
that's the kind of stuff that kids today are not doing when they bring a little life into the world. they have the kid, and then take whatever they can from the "free" programs.....which they're too stupid to know aren't really free.
but i know you already know this is what was being talked about, and are just trying to be argumentative.
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"Society" foots the bill to take care of all of us. There is nothing around you that wasn't payed for by someone else. At what point are the general rights afforded to you, restricted to others? By placing assorted "worths" on individuals base upon your perceived values to society, you allow yourself to be, at some point, judged as well. You are in constant use of public facilities and funds. Should you be judged, as to earn them, by someone else's metric?
Punishing the child of a young mother because the bill to raise it is "footed by society" is sick. It is inhumane and completely illogical. If you wish to tax the earnings of the parents, or of the entire families to recompense the "expenditure" required to raise that child as demonstrated from public funds.... that's one thing. (not that I back another tax, but putting the kid back in utero isn't an option)
But to simply look at that person as a "societal burden" simply because the mother was 16 and made a poor decision as judged by you..... very narrow minded.
And we are no different from animals. We live and die by the exact same principles governing the natural world. Procreate, and pass on genes. There is no other principle that each individual of a species is more driven by, instinctively.
Sorry, cannot agree.
When I was back in Hawaii, I worked 5 days a week pushing a broom, driving an old 1999 station wagon, paying for my own food, not eating out because the money isn't there, and generally living just above the poverty line. While I was working and earning my keep, the girls at my school who were at the same income level as my family were spending their time getting knocked up, and taking my tax money to live sometimes more comfortably than I do, while giving nothing back to society.
Yes, EVERYTHING around us was paid for by tax money. But here's the catch, most of us pay back into that system. Folks like you and I give back to society as a whole, be it through tax money, or public service. The majority of these welfare-fed teenage pregnancies however, never end up giving anything back to our society as a whole and just leach of of the public coffer. In my oppinion, if you conceive a child at a certain income level, you should receive ZERO welfare unless something outside of your control occurs to remove some of that income.
And before anyone starts with accusations of elitism, let me remind you, I lived barely above the poverty line. My family collected unemployment for a time, after the business my mother worked for for 20 years closed unexpectedly. We weren't trying to get a cheap ride, my mother spent every day trying to find a permanent job, and taking small gigs here and there in the mean time. And when that happened, we cut our spending, cut our expenses, I got a job, and no more kids popped up. We recognized that we could not afford to live at a certain standard, and by being responsible, we made it through with money to spare, and now I'm going to college and living comfortably, and she is making more money than ever before due to her own dedication and skill, not leaching off of the government as she could have done.
Oh, and I have to agree about jailing those who employ illegals. Remove the incentive to harbor them.
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People will 'hate' on immigrants that they feel won't integrate with their culture. This feeling is due to a sense that their failure to integrate is a vote of no-confidence in the prevailing culture. Beyond that, people will always find ways examples to reinforce their believes valid or not. As for Germany, here are the actually statistics of immigrants vs non- immigrants in terms of 'making something for themselves.
(http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-23559-galleryV9-jnjl.jpg)
from this article
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html)
Beyond that, its easy to point the finger at 'them', all to often 'them' is often a reflection of 'us'.
There are many immigrants in the USA who are successful and who are not criminals, pregnant teenagers, etc... We attract the best and the brightest from around the world and many immigrants have built the biz that we all take for granted within the US. For example, the founder of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang, who creates the video cards that makes many of these 3D games possible is a Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant.
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People will 'hate' on immigrants that they feel won't integrate with their culture. This feeling is due to a sense that their failure to integrate is a vote of no-confidence in the prevailing culture. Beyond that, people will always find ways examples to reinforce their believes valid or not. As for Germany, here are the actually statistics of immigrants vs non- immigrants in terms of 'making something for themselves.
(http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-23559-galleryV9-jnjl.jpg)
from this article
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,723702,00.html)
Beyond that, its easy to point the finger at 'them', all to often 'them' is often a reflection of 'us'.
There are many immigrants in the USA who are successful and who are not criminals, pregnant teenagers, etc... We attract the best and the brightest from around the world and many immigrants have built the biz that we all take for granted within the US. For example, the founder of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang, who creates the video cards that makes many of these 3D games possible is a Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant.
Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................
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Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................
What I found surprising by her comments was that I was (presumably false) under the belief that BECAUSE of what had happened 70 years ago, they were ashamed and thus the least likely to say something publicly like this. Contrast against what France is doing, deporting Roma people, if Germany did that, there would probably be enormous outcry from within the country, as it would open so many old sore wounds. I would be interested in hearing more from the perspective from the German players of this community.
As a side note, 'immigrants are the problem' attitude often coincides with global economic downturns, all over the world societies are placing the blame of economic issues on immigrents. For example, in Sweden, the Swedish 'Nazi' party won 8% of the vote in the past election.
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Sorry, cannot agree.
When I was back in Hawaii, I worked 5 days a week pushing a broom, driving an old 1999 station wagon, paying for my own food, not eating out because the money isn't there, and generally living just above the poverty line. While I was working and earning my keep, the girls at my school who were at the same income level as my family were spending their time getting knocked up, and taking my tax money to live sometimes more comfortably than I do, while giving nothing back to society.
Yes, EVERYTHING around us was paid for by tax money. But here's the catch, most of us pay back into that system. Folks like you and I give back to society as a whole, be it through tax money, or public service. The majority of these welfare-fed teenage pregnancies however, never end up giving anything back to our society as a whole and just leach of of the public coffer. In my oppinion, if you conceive a child at a certain income level, you should receive ZERO welfare unless something outside of your control occurs to remove some of that income.
And before anyone starts with accusations of elitism, let me remind you, I lived barely above the poverty line. My family collected unemployment for a time, after the business my mother worked for for 20 years closed unexpectedly. We weren't trying to get a cheap ride, my mother spent every day trying to find a permanent job, and taking small gigs here and there in the mean time. And when that happened, we cut our spending, cut our expenses, I got a job, and no more kids popped up. We recognized that we could not afford to live at a certain standard, and by being responsible, we made it through with money to spare, and now I'm going to college and living comfortably, and she is making more money than ever before due to her own dedication and skill, not leaching off of the government as she could have done.
Oh, and I have to agree about jailing those who employ illegals. Remove the incentive to harbor them.
Thanks, Serenity
You saved me from typing all of that.
I also know you, Moray and while you have valid points, I know that you like to argue as much as I do. :P
Serenity voiced exactly what I meant. I am speaking of the folks that suck the marrow from society and do not give anything in return.
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There are many immigrants in the USA who are successful and who are not criminals, pregnant teenagers, etc... We attract the best and the brightest from around the world and many immigrants have built the biz that we all take for granted within the US. For example, the founder of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang, who creates the video cards that makes many of these 3D games possible is a Taiwanese/Chinese immigrant.
The key here is not the word immigrant, but rather illegal. I have no problem with immigrants whatsoever. One of the smartest kids in my English class here is from Africa originally. One of my best friends and an ex girlfriend was born in Japan. Immigrants are lovely! They make our country what it is. It is the ILLEGAL immigrants I cannot stand. They are violating the law, and yet get the same exact considerations for our government! What kind of a precedent are we setting? You get the same benefits if you break the law to get here than if you took the long legal road, and if you get caught, you just get sent back to try again. Imagine if we handle bank robberies this way.
I also know you, Moray and while you have valid points, I know that you like to argue as much as I do. :P
Very true :D
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[everyone's typing boldly now...]
Germany's officials are already complaining about the diminishing immigration. They also have the problem of "wrong" immigration, that is, illiterate and culturally challenged migrants who only want to keep the profile low while enjoying the German state benefits for the poor. Germany wants to attract the "better" migrants, but there are so many obstacles and minefields on the way to an immigration country that I don't think it will ever work out.
Think of it. want to go to Germany? Well, hmm. Speak German? No? Yes? You are fluent with an accent? Forget it. People with a foreign accent are labeled idiots in Germany. This is likely to kill Germany in the long run.
America, on the contrary, has a growing population that (mostly) speak English. It might sound stupid, but it is a huge advantage. No, not Mandarin or anything else. People around the world learn English, and it is easier to achieve an acceptable level compared to German (or, even more funny, Dutch or - much worse - Mandarin). That is a little but very important advantage that might save Americas butt.
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I'm surprised no one has brought this up in this conversation...
Instead of harboring a protectionist perspective, immigration issues could be 'solved' by encouraging massive direct foreign investment in Mexico and Turkey. There here for the jobs, enable their economies to grow, not only to you reduce the interest in taking the risk of coming to the US or Germany, you have a much stronger trading partner (generating demand for US/German goods). :aok
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I'm surprised no one has brought this up in this conversation...
Instead of harboring a protectionist perspective, immigration issues could be 'solved' by encouraging massive direct foreign investment in Mexico and Turkey. There here for the jobs, enable their economies to grow, not only to you reduce the interest in taking the risk of coming to the US or Germany, you have a much stronger trading partner (generating demand for US/German goods). :aok
they're here because they don't want any responsibility. if they were here for the jobs, then they'd come here legally.
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I'm surprised no one has brought this up in this conversation...
Instead of harboring a protectionist perspective, immigration issues could be 'solved' by encouraging massive direct foreign investment in Mexico and Turkey. There here for the jobs, enable their economies to grow, not only to you reduce the interest in taking the risk of coming to the US or Germany, you have a much stronger trading partner (generating demand for US/German goods). :aok
With the war against the drug cartels in Mexico going on right now, I don't think it's that attractive for investment. Mexico is also relatively better off than several of its neighbors and already attracts migrants looking for work.
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With the war against the drug cartels in Mexico going on right now, I don't think it's that attractive for investment. Mexico is also relatively better off than several of its neighbors and already attracts migrants looking for work.
Mexico wants to build a wall on its southern border to stop the inflow of its illegal neighbors. :noid
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they're here because they don't want any responsibility. if they were here for the jobs, then they'd come here legally.
Well, I'm glad we harbor no prejudgment about all of them, because they all behave the same and are the same. I mean if we did, we would only be setting them up for failure in our minds as we would go out of our way to find cases that reinforce our preformed beliefs.
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Well, I'm glad we harbor no prejudgment about all of them, because they all behave the same and are the same. I mean if we did, we would only be setting them up for failure in our minds as we would go out of our way to find cases that reinforce our preformed beliefs.
no, we aren;t setting them up for failure.
by breaking the law, and then continuing to break the law each and every second of every minute of every day that they breathe in this country.....they are setting themselves up for failure.
if they truly wanted to become a responsible member of our society, then they would come here legally.
i have no problems whatsoever with legal immigrants. it's the illegal immigrants i have problems with. i will not hesitate to turn anyof them in to ins. they are robbing each of us blind.
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Well, I'm glad we harbor no prejudgment about all of them, because they all behave the same and are the same. I mean if we did, we would only be setting them up for failure in our minds as we would go out of our way to find cases that reinforce our preformed beliefs.
What right do they have at all to anything in this country let alone freedom from prejudice? After all, we aren't grouping them together as Mexicans, or even as immigrants, but rather as ILLEGAL immigrants, a group they CHOSE to join of their own free will.
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With the war against the drug cartels in Mexico going on right now, I don't think it's that attractive for investment. Mexico is also relatively better off than several of its neighbors and already attracts migrants looking for work.
The true cost of outsourcing is one of those inconvenient things the Wise Men Of Wall Street love to overlook. Armed guards on the factory floor to suppress the blood fueds, payoffs to all & sundry, neolithic concepts of "quality", the list goes on. But hey, the mwarket loves that outsourcing stuff, and they'll put us all out of a job if we don't beat last quarter's cost numbers.
I remember when I worked briefly for BMW yea these many, many moons ago that they were closing the old 3-series production line near Munich, as the proportion of Turkish workers was much higher and, even with local skilled workers directing the show, they couldn't get the quality they needed.
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After all, we aren't grouping them together as Mexicans, or even as immigrants, but rather as ILLEGAL immigrants, a group they CHOSE to join of their own free will.
they're here because they don't want any responsibility. if they were here for the jobs, then they'd come here legally.
Actually, if I am understanding cap correctly, cap is grouping them all as lazy, non-working freeloaders. In reality, they tend to be the hardest working group, they get exploited on a daily basis by citizens that have promised them a dream that they will prob never have. In, my experience, where it falls apart is their children who get, torn between cultures and receive a lack of guidance due to their parents working non-stop and the rest of the family structure not being available. Its this lack of family presence which leads them to gangs, etc.. which serve as a surrogate family.
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Actually, if I am understanding cap correctly, cap is grouping them all as lazy, non-working freeloaders. In reality, they tend to be the hardest working group, they get exploited on a daily basis by citizens that have promised them a dream that they will prob never have.
That's part of the deal if you're in illegaly.
As for legals, legals who are only in H1B work visa stage get a bit exploited too. They can't complain like most american workers, they do what they're told promptly or else employers won't sponsor you for greencard. One thing you should never ever do is argue with the boss even though he/she's wrong. This scenario is most prevalent in small and medium sized business.
Depending on what state they reside naturalization takes 8 to 10 years averages, I recomend they should have more than $100,000 to pay for legal fees (assuming the immigration lawyer is top notch) and for renewing work visa before even thinking about permanently settleling to US. Obviously this kind of pathway renders most south-of the-border-runner types ineligible, but they cleverly continue to flood in with impunity anyway.
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Actually, if I am understanding cap correctly, cap is grouping them all as lazy, non-working freeloaders. In reality, they tend to be the hardest working group, they get exploited on a daily basis by citizens that have promised them a dream that they will prob never have. In, my experience, where it falls apart is their children who get, torn between cultures and receive a lack of guidance due to their parents working non-stop and the rest of the family structure not being available. Its this lack of family presence which leads them to gangs, etc.. which serve as a surrogate family.
if you are unable to understand the difference between lazy and irresponsible, then there is no use in trying to get through to you.
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if you are unable to understand the difference between lazy and irresponsible, then there is no use in trying to get through to you.
Well obviously you don't believe they came here to work, but I guess your short term memory is as quality as your logic.
If they were here for the jobs, then they'd come here legally.
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Well obviously you don't believe they came here to work, but I guess your short term memory is as quality as your logic.
ok, i'll rephrase.......if they were here to work and contribute responsibly like the rest of us, then they would come legally.
they only want the money, with no responsibility. they want the free(to them) health care. the free(to them) welfare. the free(to them) disability.
once again.....i have no problem whatsoever with those that come here legally....
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ok, i'll rephrase.......if they were here to work and contribute responsibly like the rest of us, then they would come legally.
they only want the money, with no responsibility. they want the free(to them) health care. the free(to them) welfare. the free(to them) disability.
once again.....i have no problem whatsoever with those that come here legally....
I don't know what the availability for visas for Mexican/Central & South American workers, but I do know that getting H1s for computer engineering work is troublesome at best. What I mean is that there demand for H1 workers is greater than the number of visa's the government is willing to give. Furthermore, large foreign outsourcing companies have been gaming the system for years by 'purchasing' H1 visas for their 'employees' which they never use in the intended way, for the sole purpose of reducing the supply so that US companies are forced to use them as an outsourcing firm instead of hire people directly. There was an Wall Street journal article about this last year, (I wonder if I can dig it up).
Clearly, the demand for foreign cheap labor in the US is what is driving them to come, so that demand must be reduced. Aggressively going after the supply is impractical as there are many more people in the world than the US can ever afford to keep out. Going after the demand is the only affordable option. Going after Employers is challenging due to corruption, etc... The cheapest option is to make Mexico more attractive by encouraging business growth there. This could be largely funded by the private sector and would result in many gains for Americans, well beyond just immigration.
Angela's comments were based off of Germans wanting 1st gen non-Germans to integrate, not illegal immigration in the USA. To my knowledge her comments were not directed to illegals either, but rather towards, 'non-germans', legal and non-legal.
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I don't know what the availability for visas for Mexican/Central & South American workers, but I do know that getting H1s for computer engineering work is troublesome at best. What I mean is that there demand for H1 workers is greater than the number of visa's the government is willing to give. Furthermore, large foreign outsourcing companies have been gaming the system for years by 'purchasing' H1 visas for their 'employees' which they never use in the intended way, for the sole purpose of reducing the supply so that US companies are forced to use them as an outsourcing firm instead of hire people directly. There was an Wall Street journal article about this last year, (I wonder if I can dig it up).
Clearly, the demand for foreign cheap labor in the US is what is driving them to come, so that demand must be reduced. Aggressively going after the supply is impractical as there are many more people in the world than the US can ever afford to keep out. Going after the demand is the only affordable option. Going after Employers is challenging due to corruption, etc... The cheapest option is to make Mexico more attractive by encouraging business growth there. This could be largely funded by the private sector and would result in many gains for Americans, well beyond just immigration.
it is not a demand for cheap labor. it is employers being cheap. they'll use the cheaper labor, and hold onto the extra profits. or they will use the cheaper labor, and if they need to undercut the other guy, they can/will.
i used to have a landscaper as a customer. he has a half dozen illegals working for him. he also is one of the most expensive landscapers in the area. more expensive in fact than the one owned by another customers son....who coincidentally employs teenagers and young men.
i'm friends with a german girl that worked her bellybutton off to be here legally. she makes good money now. she almost gave up, but the company she works for, and a few of us kept her spirits up.
there is no excuse. you cannot possibly come up with a good reasonable answer as to why the rest of us should accept illegals being illegal, and breaking the law every second of every minute of every hour of every day that they inhale on this soil.
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i used to have a landscaper as a customer. he has a half dozen illegals working for him. he also is one of the most expensive landscapers in the area. more expensive in fact than the one owned by another customers son....who coincidentally employs teenagers and young men.
Did you report them to the INS?
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Angela's comments were based off of Germans wanting 1st gen non-Germans to integrate, not illegal immigration in the USA. To my knowledge her comments were not directed to illegals either, but rather towards, 'non-germans', legal and non-legal.
European model in several countries failed on the 'integration' part.
The reason the US and Canada have done a bit better is that *most* immigrants understand they're leaving behind things that made their origination suck. Immigration is an opportunity to keep the good stuff and toss the bad stuff. Naturally, it is a rocky process.
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Did you report them to the INS?
This may be a wild guess but I think new jersey has sanctuary laws
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Did you report them to the INS?
of course. to the best of my knowledge, the only thing that happened is that i lost a customer..........dunno how he found out i reported em......but there is an office less then 3 miles from my shop.
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This may be a wild guess but I think new jersey has sanctuary laws and you can't report
oohh....we can report.......the big question is whether or not those in position to act will. they didn't.
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There's a world of difference between European immigration problems and American immigration problems.
While American immigration problems are primarily economic and center around illegal immigration, the main issue with European immigration is cultural, although there do exist concerns due to the massive welfare states of most European countries. Europeans are simply not used to the concept of extremely foreign cultures- even among Europeans, consider, there have been only in the last 20 years or so massive sectarian and ethnic conflicts (Yugoslav wars, continuing Northern Ireland BS come to mind). Large populations of immigrants from the Middle East; people who don't speak anywhere near the same language, don't follow anywhere near the same religion, and aren't exactly running with open arms to convert and lose their own culture. Also, most European immigrants are legal- Germany became a beacon for Turkish immigration with the Gastarbeiter program of the 70's, for example, and Sweden has a large problem because of their lax definitions for refugee status, and France has a lot of immigration from its former colonies, etc. (that's not to say that there are no illegal immigrants in Europe, Italy, France and Britain in particular have issues with illegal immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa).
It's just impossible to compare.
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Ok, I've read most of this, but I have to admit I must have missed something, and I apologize if it's already explained earlier in the thread, but I'm not now willing to sort back through 5 pages to find out...
WHO THE F IS ANGELA MERKEL, AND WHY DOES ANYONE CARE?!?
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WHO THE F IS ANGELA MERKEL, AND WHY DOES ANYONE CARE?!?
Angela Merkel is the Chancellor of the economic heart of Europe.
(http://topnews.net.nz/images/Angela-Merkel_0.jpg)
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Ok, I've read most of this, but I have to admit I must have missed something, and I apologize if it's already explained earlier in the thread, but I'm not now willing to sort back through 5 pages to find out...
WHO THE F IS ANGELA MERKEL, AND WHY DOES ANYONE CARE?!?
Because she is the Chancellor of Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel)
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Ah, ok. I'm so desensitized to anything anyone in or seeking office says this political season that I automatically tune out anything they say at this point. I apologize for not knowing what I should have. My bad (and I'm not being sarcastic, I feel like a moron now). :o
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Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................
Flying their flag can be considered nationalism in Germany nowadays, they've been extremely PC since WWII.
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And, for many years, it was part of the (then) West-German constitution that they *had* to accept refugees. Rock up at the airport, claim to be a refugee, come on in. When the Osties were *perturbed* (don't auto-skuzzify me!) with the Westies, they used to fill Tupolevs with all manner of their friends from the earth's assorted *areas of social upheaval* and dump them at a U-Bahn train station, next stop Social Benefitz.
So yeah, the Germans know something about tolerance.
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I don't mind hard workers, period. As far as I'm concerned, there are plenty of people here illegally that contribute a heck of a lot more than those with the birthright.
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I don't mind hard workers, period. As far as I'm concerned, there are plenty of people here illegally that contribute a heck of a lot more than those with the birthright.
what do they contribute?
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what do they contribute?
A headache when it is time to re-evaluate my tax obligation (of which they do not share the burdon with me)
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A headache when it is time to re-evaluate my tax obligation (of which they do not share the burdon with me)
shush you!!
i wanted to hear/see what these "idealists" if that;s the right word....had to say. :devil
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shush you!!
i wanted to hear/see what these "idealists" if that;s the right word....had to say. :devil
:noid
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:noid
:rofl
have you noticed the deafening silence? :noid
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what do they contribute?
keep SS and medicare solvent for the birthright? (as oneway said)
and from The Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=4) (2005)
According to an article in The New York Times, the estimated 7 million illegal immigrants in the United States are adding $7 billion to the Social Security system each year. . . . working and paying into Social Security and Medicare, but since they are not citizens, they cannot benefit from the programs once retired.
And the amount is very substantial:
The money contributed by “illegal immigrants” added up to about 10 percent of last year’s surplus — the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it gives out in pension benefits. What’s even more interesting is that the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all of the Social Security Administration’s projections.
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keep SS and medicare solvent for the birthright? (as oneway said)
and from The Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=4) (2005)
According to an article in The New York Times, the estimated 7 million illegal immigrants in the United States are adding $7 billion to the Social Security system each year. . . . working and paying into Social Security and Medicare, but since they are not citizens, they cannot benefit from the programs once retired.
And the amount is very substantial:
The money contributed by “illegal immigrants” added up to about 10 percent of last year’s surplus — the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it gives out in pension benefits. What’s even more interesting is that the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all of the Social Security Administration’s projections.
this would be all well and fine, except that the majority of them work for cash. when they work for cash, there will be no contribution to the system. if their employer does take taxes out of their pay, at that point, you can bet he's keeping it. this of course is just another reason to send the employers of illegals straight to jail.
top that off with some of them living with 4, 5 or more of them in a single apartment.
now, granted, some of them do do the stolen ss number thing......that has it's own set of complications.
also....imagine those illegals gone....and unemployed legals taking those jobs. and don't try the "they take jobs no one wants" line......it doesn't wash.
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what do they contribute?
Uh, they contribute a hard day's work and get things done?
What do the kids from the Jersey Shore contribute?
Don't use too wide a brush...
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Uh, they contribute a hard day's work and get things done?
What do the kids from the Jersey Shore contribute?
good entertainment with the highest ratings for a cable show :devil
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Uh, they contribute a hard day's work and get things done?
What do the kids from the Jersey Shore contribute?
Don't use too wide a brush...
the real kids that live down there for real do the same. the ones you see on tv aren't what is here.....
and how can i not use a wide brush on illegals? they are after all criminals.
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also....imagine those illegals gone....and unemployed legals taking those jobs. and don't try the "they take jobs no one wants" line......it doesn't wash.
It's not that hard to find "a" job... The pain is finding one that is suitable to your situation (be it salary requirements, location, hours, or something else).
Besides, there's nothing stopping unemployed legals from taking the jobs back right now... They just need to be willing to work harder, better, and longer (they're so superior - this should be easy, right?). People aren't willing to do this. It is a job they don't want. The argument absolutely does wash.
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this would be all well and fine, except that the majority of them work for cash. when they work for cash, there will be no contribution to the system. if their employer does take taxes out of their pay, at that point, you can bet he's keeping it. this of course is just another reason to send the employers of illegals straight to jail.
top that off with some of them living with 4, 5 or more of them in a single apartment.
now, granted, some of them do do the stolen ss number thing......that has it's own set of complications.
also....imagine those illegals gone....and unemployed legals taking those jobs. and don't try the "they take jobs no one wants" line......it doesn't wash.
really hate to tell you, but most do pay income taxes, why do you think they need stolen ss? and dont forget sales tax, and how many non illegals you think will be lining up to work on the fields for 3-4 bucks an hour. of course we have long lines of citizens lining up to get jobs at carwashes, restaurants, etc. gee mom when i grow up i want to work as a busboy for less then minimum wage and wont collect a dime of ss :rofl.
semp
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really hate to tell you, but most do pay income taxes, why do you think they need stolen ss? and dont forget sales tax, and how many non illegals you think will be lining up to work on the fields for 3-4 bucks an hour. of course we have long lines of citizens lining up to get jobs at carwashes, restaurants, etc. gee mom when i grow up i want to work as a busboy for less then minimum wage and wont collect a dime of ss :rofl.
semp
you do realize you just made my argument, right.
3 or 4 bucks an hour?
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It's not that hard to find "a" job... The pain is finding one that is suitable to your situation (be it salary requirements, location, hours, or something else).
Besides, there's nothing stopping unemployed legals from taking the jobs back right now... They just need to be willing to work harder, better, and longer (they're so superior - this should be easy, right?). People aren't willing to do this. It is a job they don't want. The argument absolutely does wash.
if you are unemployed, and need a job, your "situation" is to find employment.
i'm a mechanic. when i've had to, i've driven tow trucks, delivered pizzas, delivered newspapers, cooked, washed dishes....whatever i had to do to keep money coming in.
where the illegals hurt us, is that even IF you wanted to take a job washing dishes until you found a job in your field, you won't get it, 'cause jose is doing it for 3 to 4 bucks an hour, paying no taxes, and getting healthcare, compliments of you and me.
there is NO reason to allow them to continue here illegally. now on the other hand, if they want to come here legally, and work legally for the going rates, then i see/have no problems with that at all. i would/do in fact welcome that.
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you do realize you just made my argument, right.
3 or 4 bucks an hour?
You want to get it up to 6 or 8? Half the small businesses will have to close doors, and/or all of our prices for their services will increase. You still won't get the job because now the clients will choose to do the menial tasks for themselves rather than pay the vastly increased price. The bottom line is you can't have a minimum wage and no illegals. Pick one or the other.
I think you fail to appreciate the economic benefit to the nation that the black market provides. What, do you also think we continue the drug war because it is working? :lol The only thing it "saves" are the jobs of millions of attorneys, paralegals, police officers, judges, parole officers, etc. that would suddenly become quite redundant if drugs were ever legalized.
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You want to get it up to 6 or 8? Half the small businesses will have to close doors, and/or all of our prices for their services will increase. You still won't get the job because now the clients will choose to do the menial tasks for themselves rather than pay the vastly increased price. The bottom line is you can't have a minimum wage and no illegals. Pick one or the other.
I think you fail to appreciate the economic benefit to the nation that the black market provides. What, do you also think we continue the drug war because it is working? :lol The only thing it "saves" are the jobs of millions of attorneys, paralegals, police officers, judges, parole officers, etc. that would suddenly become quite redundant if drugs were ever legalized.
and yet when these very same employers that started hiring illegals decreased their expenditures by paying less, they did not lower their prices.
and your last statement....do i take that to mean that you think drugs should be legalized? like you think someone should be allowed to legally go buy heroine?
i truly hope i interpreted that line wrong, as i thought you were smarter than that........
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and your last statement....do i take that to mean that you think drugs should be legalized? like you think someone should be allowed to legally go buy heroine?
i truly hope i interpreted that line wrong, as i thought you were smarter than that........
It's getting bought one way or another. Do you want the moneys to fund countries that harbor dictators and terrorists, or fund our own? Would you rather keep giving criminal gangs a reason to fight over street corners, or take the major reason away? Would you like to keep filling up our prisons and have them act as drug colleges and social network sites, or would you rather your tax dollars went at best to you, and at worst to something different that might or might not work (as opposed to something that certainly doesn't)?
Outright legalization would no doubt cause new problems, but having buried half a dozen young friends and family, I'm not so certain it would be worse than what we have now. I'm willing to give it a shot and see what happens--It doesn't have to be written in stone for all time.
As much as I hate to quote FDR, he did have a great comment on life, "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all else, try something."
This isn't rocket science...
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what do they contribute?
i can't believe i didn't mention this in the previous post.... favorable revenue/expense for employers :devil, (or they can use the savings there to acquire new, better things for the business)
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Alright I'll say it... this weeks flavor of xenophobia is the stereotype of the 'illegal immigrant'.
Fear often manifests as hate, which doesn't have to wear white sheets or red arm bands.
yeah, I said it... and you should be ashamed.
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i can't believe i didn't mention this in the previous post.... favorable revenue/expense for employers :devil, (or they can use the savings there to acquire new, better things for the business)
you mean for the employers that should be in jail/?
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Alright I'll say it... this weeks flavor of xenophobia is the stereotype of the 'illegal immigrant'.
Fear often manifests as hate, which doesn't have to wear white sheets or red arm bands.
yeah, I said it... and you should be ashamed.
wait?? i should be ashamed because i don't like criminals?? you're joking, and trolling now, aren't ya?
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wait?? i should be ashamed because i don't like criminals?? you're joking, and trolling now, aren't ya?
It's hard to believe a guy who is pro-drug war really doesn't like criminals. It sure creates a hell of a lot of them.
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It's hard to believe a guy who is pro-drug war really doesn't like criminals. It sure creates a hell of a lot of them.
now i know you're trolling.
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We are switching from a nation of doers to one of blame everybody else. And for the record we have been the numero uno creator of dictatorships in latin america for over 100 years. I am not ashamed to say I am a us citizen either.
Semp
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where the illegals hurt us, is that even IF you wanted to take a job washing dishes until you found a job in your field, you won't get it, 'cause jose is doing it for 3 to 4 bucks an hour..
Competition can suck, which also happens to be the fundamental feature of capitalism... (I'm not trolling for a debate about capitalism or other economic management forms)
We are switching from a nation of doers to one of blame everybody else.
Couldn't agree more, taking responsibility is what no one is good at anymore. You have to strive to the the best at what you do, if not, someone will beat you at your own game. As globalization becomes more and more of a reality, unless you live in the country with the most devalued currency in the world, you will never be able compete on price, so you have to compete on other factors such as quality.
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Competition can suck, which also happens to be the fundamental feature of capitalism... (I'm not trolling for a debate about capitalism or other economic management forms)
competition actually does not suck.
what sucks is competition when one of the business owners employs criminals, which he pays less, thus allowing him to undercut the business which employs hard working legal citizens, which he is paying a fair rate to. it really IS that simple.
wanna work here? come in legally, and we'll all welcome you.
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what sucks is competition when one of the business owners employs criminals, which he pays less, thus allowing him to undercut the business which employs hard working legal citizens, which he is paying a fair rate to. it really IS that simple.
I agree with that sentiment in that we should all be playing the same game, I don't believe that blaming illegals is the appropriate or constructive way of dealing with it. If you truly believe its an economic and not cultural/racial issue, pick on the enabler, not the people who have limited to no options (however easy it might be).
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you mean for the employers that should be in jail/?
Won't happen promptly as there are conflict of interests, it will disrupt some sectors of the economy and disrupt state economies (states where employers rely on 'informal' hiring, and states with diverse and dynamic economy to stay competitive)
As of now (and well in the future) there's no interest and will to enforce and uphold laws already in place. For example, see California's rules by the book (see 834b) (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90) that's equal or equivalent to Arizona. Also, it's unrealistic that (well let's say Los Angeles,CA for example) we will see high profile massive workplace raids in downtown's fashion and jewelry district.
(edit for cleanup_)
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I agree with that sentiment in that we should all be playing the same game, I don't believe that blaming illegals is the appropriate or constructive way of dealing with it. If you truly believe its an economic and not cultural/racial issue, pick on the enabler, not the people who have limited to no options (however easy it might be).
i already have said that i think that those that employ illegals should be in jail. i could go one step farther, and have everything that they own confiscated, much like what they do to drug dealers.
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Won't happen promptly as there are conflict of interests, it will disrupt some sectors of the economy and disrupt state economies (states where employers rely on 'informal' hiring, and states with diverse and dynamic economy to stay competitive)
As of now (and well in the future) there's no interest and will to enforce and uphold laws already in place. For example, see California's rules by the book (see 834b) (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90) that's equal or equivalent to Arizona. Also, it's unrealistic that (well let's say Los Angeles,CA for example) we will see high profile massive workplace raids in downtown's fashion and jewelry district.
(edit for cleanup_)
arizona doesn't seem to be having any trouble with all of the illegals leaving.
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Won't happen promptly as there are conflict of interests, it will disrupt some sectors of the economy and disrupt state economies (states where employers rely on 'informal' hiring, and states with diverse and dynamic economy to stay competitive)
As of now (and well in the future) there's no interest and will to enforce and uphold laws already in place. For example, see California's rules by the book (see 834b) (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90) that's equal or equivalent to Arizona. Also, it's unrealistic that (well let's say Los Angeles,CA for example) we will see high profile massive workplace raids in downtown's fashion and jewelry district.
*edited to reflect an update to Perrine's comments*
That is very true, it would cause a massive disruption to the economy, as they are an integrated part of the economy today. Although I would prefer an level playing field and would be willing to pay higher prices for it, claiming that we need to go after illegal immigration seems to be a dishonest policy if we are unwilling to accept the consequences. If we need them to uphold our economy, then they should be allowed to be here legally, if we don't want the help, go after the people encouraging them to be here, if we just want cheap exploitive labor (black market labor force, aka illegal workers), well shame on us, we get what we deserve.
All this being said, I still believe that underneath, its not about employment, its about xenophobia, much like Germany's chancellors remarks.
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(forgot to cleanup last 2 lines)
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arizona doesn't seem to be having any trouble with all of the illegals leaving.
more like moving to greener pastures where employers (enablers) would welcome with open arms
another it's due to jobs drying up after the Sept/Oct 2008 fallout
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more like moving to greener pastures where employers (enablers) would welcome with open arms
they'll follow example.
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arizona doesn't seem to be having any trouble with all of the illegals leaving.
Because Joe Arpaio has all the criminals filling in while feeding them moldy food and sawdust.... in his mind... "work will set you free"
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That is very true, it would cause a massive disruption to the economy, as they are an integrated part of the economy today. Although I would prefer an level playing field and would be willing to pay higher prices for it, claiming that we need to go after illegal immigration seems to be a dishonest policy if we are unwilling to accept the consequences. If we need them to uphold our economy, then they should be allowed to be here legally, if we don't want the help, go after the people encouraging them to be here, if we just want cheap exploitive labor (black market labor force, aka illegal workers), well shame on us, we get what we deserve.
All this being said, I still believe that underneath, its not about employment, its about xenophobia, much like Germany's chancellors remarks.
wanna fix the problem?"
follow this guys example.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
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now i know you're trolling.
I most certainly am not.
I don't see how someone who claims to hate criminals would support a strategy that creates and funds them.
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i already have said that i think that those that employ illegals should be in jail. i could go one step farther, and have everything that they own confiscated, much like what they do to drug dealers.
would you have reacted this strongly if it was a US citizen that suffered the same lapse of poor judgment?
and that's about all i can say about that here, without getting myself the banstick from o absent one......although there are some very very ungood thought peculating in my head about punishment for sluts like her......
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Because Joe Arpaio has all the criminals filling in while feeding them moldy food and sawdust.... in his mind... "work will set you free"
which criminals? the ones trying to flee the state, or ones that they actually prosecuted?
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don't shoot me for this guys :bolt:
http://articles.latimes.com/print/2010/oct/06/nation/la-na-illegal-immigration-20101007
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would you have reacted this strongly if it was a US citizen that suffered the same lapse of poor judgment?
so wait?(again) it's a lapse of poor judgment when someone thinks "hey....i know it's illegal to cross this river, and hide in that country, but they'll never catch me, so i will anyway" is poor judgment? or just cocky attitude of a criminal?
as for my reaction.......yes.
i'll take it to an extreme here.
if you come in my yard, and stab my visiting mother.......i don't care if you're american, mexican, german.....it doesn't matter....what does matter at that point, is that you would be better off to be found by the police before me. :aok
i know that's extreme........but those that are coming in legally are integrating into society. those that are not are simply hiding in plain sight.
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don't shoot me for this guys :bolt:
http://articles.latimes.com/print/2010/oct/06/nation/la-na-illegal-immigration-20101007
eisenhower did better than that in the 50's.
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so wait?(again) it's a lapse of poor judgment when someone thinks "hey....i know it's illegal to cross this river, and hide in that country, but they'll never catch me, so i will anyway" is poor judgment? or just cocky attitude of a criminal?
nope thats desperation.... and is not the reason you stated this...
there are some very very ungood thought peculating in my head about punishment for sluts like her......
as it that comment would make more 'sense' in context with her becoming pregnant, or are you implying you fantasize of doing 'some very very ungood actions as punishment' to all illegal immigrants... either way, which if you were to do, ironically would make you a criminal which you so claim to loathe.
What you have written clearly shows that you have no qualms about dehumanizing others.
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nope thats desperation.... and is not the reason you stated this...as it that comment would make more 'sense' in context with her becoming pregnant, or are you implying you fantasize of doing 'some very very ungood actions as punishment' to all illegal immigrants... either way, which if you were to do, ironically would make you a criminal which you so claim to loathe.
What you have written clearly shows that you have no qualms about dehumanizing others.
the bottom quote is the one you were asking what my reaction would be if she were a legal citizen? i believe she was. so yes.
no, i do not fantasize about punishing anyone. the only thing i really think should be done to illegals, is to send them home. i don't wanna put em in jail, because i don't want to keep paying for them. send them home.
if you read that link i put up, you'd have noted that when eisenhower did this, the way he did it, not many came back, as they do now. this is why i said to copy his methods.
as for the 16 year old having 5 babies....there is absolutley no excuse in the world for that. maybe....possibly.......she didn't know the first time. i can't see how, but give her the benifit of the doubt.......by the time she hit #5 though? c'mon.,,....get real......do you really think they weren't her fault?(along with the dude(s) that got her pregnant?) the remember, if she's under 16, it's statutory rape. the kid(s) that got her pregnant should be in juvi.......she should too, and adopt her kids out to caring families, so they can have a chance at a decent life, rather than the life of living with a welfare mother......
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the bottom quote is the one you were asking what my reaction would be if she were a legal citizen? i believe she was. so yes.
no, i do not fantasize about punishing anyone. the only thing i really think should be done to illegals, is to send them home. i don't wanna put em in jail, because i don't want to keep paying for them. send them home.
if you read that link i put up, you'd have noted that when eisenhower did this, the way he did it, not many came back, as they do now. this is why i said to copy his methods.
as for the 16 year old having 5 babies....there is absolutley no excuse in the world for that. maybe....possibly.......she didn't know the first time. i can't see how, but give her the benifit of the doubt.......by the time she hit #5 though? c'mon.,,....get real......do you really think they weren't her fault?(along with the dude(s) that got her pregnant?) the remember, if she's under 16, it's statutory rape. the kid(s) that got her pregnant should be in juvi.......she should too, and adopt her kids out to caring families, so they can have a chance at a decent life, rather than the life of living with a welfare mother......
Ok, cap, why then would you say such things in the first place if you don't believe in it? blinded by frustration?
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Ok, cap, why then would you say such things in the first place if you don't believe in it? blinded by frustration?
my punishment comment was directed at what basically amounts to kids. i don't like the thought of kids being tossed into jail.
as for punishing employers that hire illegals.......i harbor no reservations whatsoever about tossing them in jail. none. nada. zilch.
as for illegals, all i've said this entire thread about them, is that they are criminals as long as they are here, and should be looked upon as such.
and ya.....stuff like this does piss me off.
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eisenhower did better than that in the 50's.
I see this as a gameplay of offense/defense
Eisenhower's "defense" was the first of its kind to stop "conventional" offense, since it said in the article, "...America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve".
Over the years (around 1970s to 90s) the "offense" part "improved" through "unconventional" means. It rendered conventional "defense" such as constructing walls useless since unconventional "offense" can bypass that.
The "defense" catched up (and I think it's) due to Post 9-11 environment, and advances in technology (drones, "virtual walls" etc)
Also, the "offense" is not just on the south. There are trickle numbers from west of the pacific. You can enter US 'legally', but if your visa expires and can't afford renewal, or simply missed deadline for renewal, then you return or risk overstay (and become illegal) This is a trap that some people chose or forced into. Due to this the next "defense" may be for the US federal gov to mandate and issue National ID Card to keep account the number of its citizens, visitors and permanent residents (green card holders) in the country. This could be used to screen and weed out those who do not fit the descriptions aforementioned.
(EDIT: Since there's SSN which almost functions as a national id, just "upgrade" by turning it into a durable card, add photo and implement tamper-proof technologies. Then mandate that SSN card must be with you along with the state ID at all times.)
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I see this as a gameplay of offense/defense
Eisenhower's "defense" was the first of its kind to "conventional" offense, since it said in the article, "...America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve".
Over the years (around 1970s to 90s) the "offense" part "improved" through "unconventional" means. It rendered conventional "defense" such as constructing walls useless since unconventional "offense" can bypass that.
The "defense" catched up (and I think it's) due to Post 9-11 environment, and advances in technology (drones, "virtual walls" etc)
Also, the "offense" is not just on the south. There are trickle numbers from west of the pacific. You can enter US 'legally', but if your visa expires and can't afford it then you return or risk overstay (and become illegal) This is a trap that some people chose or forced into. Due to this the next "defense" may be for the US federal gov to mandate and issue National ID Card to keep account the number of its citizens, visitors and permanent residents (green card holders) in the country. This could be used to screen and weed out those who do not fit the descriptions aforementioned.
America "was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large scale," Mr. Brownell said. "When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint."
this is what he was faced with......
According to the Handbook of Texas Online, published by the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State Historical Association, this illegal workforce had a severe impact on the wages of ordinary working Americans. The Handbook Online reports that a study by the President's Commission on Migratory Labor in Texas in 1950 found that cotton growers in the Rio Grande Valley, where most illegal aliens in Texas worked, paid wages that were "approximately half" the farm wages paid elsewhere in the state.
Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.
so you can see how this hurts the legal workers......
it was/is caused in large part by this crap.......which eisenhower did his damndest to change.....
During the 1950s, however, this "Good Old Boy" system changed under Eisenhower – if only for about 10 years.
In 1954, Ike appointed retired Gen. Joseph "Jumpin' Joe" Swing, a former West Point classmate and veteran of the 101st Airborne, as the new INS commissioner.
One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.
with this as the result....
Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.
By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.
By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State
voluntarily.
and here is one of the keys........
Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.
Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.
The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.
now, i do agree with you on one thing. the problem is a little different now, than it was back then. back then, i think it was mostly a mexican illegal thing. today, it's many many more. a lot of the non-mexican illegals still come in through mexico though(i think), so this same solution would work wonders. especially combined with arizona's initiative, this problem would all but dissappear in a year or less....just as it did in 1954.
i should reiterate....i do not have any issues with those coming here legally. those that choose to integrate into our society. i do however have very large issues with illegals.
another way to look at it for those of you that think they should be allowed here.
many states issue drivers lisences to illegals(i think pa is one of them). if thye can't get a lisence, they just go out and buy a pos car for cash money. no insurance, fake tags, and no money so to speak.
so now it's raining. a 1996 pontiac grand prix runs a light, broadsides your minivan. you're driving, your wife, and 2 kids are in the van.
you are the only survivor in the van. you've now just lost everything that was your life to a person that should not have been living here, much less driving a 4,000 pound weapon.
do you still think they should be allowed here?
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i don't like the thought of kids being tossed into jail.
I agree with not sending kids to jail, I guess I don't understand then what your 'very very ungood thought' is, if your not implying a serious criminal action.
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I agree with not sending kids to jail, I guess I don't understand then what your 'very very ungood thought' is, if your not implying a serious criminal action.
in my mind that is it. if they continue to repeat such serious mistakes, then it would seem to be the only solution. i can't imagine in the timeframe to have 5 kids that no one took the time to tell her or the guys doing this to her that it is wrong.
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Just want to remind all of you that are supporting the concept of illegal immigrants that you are SUPPORTING the violation of federal law. Welcome to level of street scum, thugs, drug dealers and murderers. Enjoy your stay in the moral cesspool!
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Just want to remind all of you that are supporting the concept of illegal immigrants that you are SUPPORTING the violation of federal law. Welcome to level of street scum, thugs, drug dealers and murderers. Enjoy your stay in the moral cesspool!
:aok
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Dont do anything about the border. We might want to get into Mexico to look for jobs before long. :bolt:
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Dont do anything about the border. We might want to get into Mexico to look for jobs before long. :bolt:
even if i lose my shop(the only way i will lose my job), i have a guy that'll hire me tomorrow driving his tow trucks. that's my foot in the door to turn wrenches for him.
if not, i have plenty of people that'll bring their cars to my home, and i'll fix em here in my garage.
i'm 48, been working since i was 15, at one point holding 4 jobs down.....and in all that time, i collected one unemployment check. i don't plan on starting now.
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Dont do anything about the border. We might want to get into Mexico to look for jobs before long. :bolt:
nah next logical choice is canada
Prepare for drought (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39741525/ns/us_news-environment/) of bliblical proportions!
(http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/101019_Drought2039.grid-8x2.jpg)
annex canada! :devil
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Just want to remind all of you that are supporting the concept of illegal immigrants that you are SUPPORTING the violation of federal law. Welcome to level of street scum, thugs, drug dealers and murderers. Enjoy your stay in the moral cesspool!
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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We had one girl that I knew in middle school.
got pregnant in 5th grade, had it in sixth grade and then got pregnant right after she had the first baby.
She is up to 5 and she is a sophomore in high school.
its a real late response, but oh man u oughta come a little further south to corpus. All the gangster wanabes are everywhere, not to mention all the pregnant ganster girls who never shut up and act like they wanna fight guys (while pregnant). An then when u tell em to STFU! every guy they ever banged wants to fight u now, like they are all baby daddy partners or something.
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The crux of the issue, from what I can see, is:
If you want to come work here, do it legally.
I have no problem with immigration. I'm not even really concerned about the criminal aspect. I'm almost positive that most folks trying to get across the border aren't doing it for kicks, or to be a criminal. Most are simply trying to find a better life for their families,
It's all about the money. If more people stopped trying to bypass the system (Natural Citizens included) the tax burden would be shared by a much broader pool of people therefore easing the burden for everyone.
Wanna come to America? No problem, here is your SSN.
Welcome to America.
Now pay taxes.
Wanna come illegally?
Here is your 8 weeks of Basic Training, a canteen, a uniform, a weapon and government sponsored trip to the Middle East (or wherever we happen to be at the time). See you in 18 months :aok
There are certain expectations that I (and others) have of our government. I am under no illusion that these benefits should be free. The taxpayers money is what (supposedly) pays for these things.
You want to be privy to these benefits? Contribute.
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Because Germany is, the shining exampled for tolerance................
is just one quote, i read today the chancellor is not so they are going back to Hitler times, they hate the new, it was just a new stoy i was reading .
BUT i am a bigot and many other things but in the end we are people and that's it, if you country has spent to much to be on top its time to pay that bill, as am aussie i don't care much for BS or any other people, but i am just one of them, when times get tough this crap happens, its not about how it was, it is now, get a grip and let it roll as you can do nothing about it away.
BTW Pissie little Australia imports 300,000 a year, we are only about 25 mill when i was a kid.
In tough times attacking people that have had jack inst going to make it right your just whining, everyone who puts in the hard yards has their time.
FFS i am sick of baby boomers with the easy life of real estate they have had, but i am not squeaking just saying they were the right place and time , its the place in time for the others, so suck up what you had and get over it or compete on a new platform, treat it like a game upgrade you have to get used to it or F&$% off and don't play but don't squeak about it in the forums.
You have to be smarter by the day in life, i have had 10 different jobs now none would now pay my bills so i did new stuff and it makes money. Its easy but harder if all you do is squeak about how hard it is, its a big world now get used to it and fast, we cant just bomb people because they are different, now when it happens it cost money so then you go broke.
From an old ghay band
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
So we're different colours
And we're different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you
So what could I have done
I can't understand
..
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So put up or shut up?
I'm going to:
Move to Australia (illegally)
Get a job
Not pay taxes on the wages I earn
Possibly get hurt (or in some way need the services of a hospital Emergency room)
NEVER EVER pay that bill that I incurred at the hospital (not one red cent)
Send the (non-taxed) money I make to another country so it doesn't even get SPENT in Australia
Would Chopper Reid approve?
Let's all just hold hands and sing Depeche Mode songs. That will solve the problem...
:rolleyes:
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so we got it...you're ok with the illegals......
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Just want to remind all of you that are supporting the concept of illegal immigrants that you are SUPPORTING the violation of federal law. Welcome to level of street scum, thugs, drug dealers and murderers. Enjoy your stay in the moral cesspool!
Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"
It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.
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Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"
It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.
is it unconstitutional to stop people from illegally entering the country?
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she hit it right on the nose, and we should take example from it. when i visit germany, i speak german, i dont expect everyone to speak english! in france they speak french, so here should they learn our language and be assimilated or go back home!
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Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"
It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.
Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God
That is the full oath of enlistment in the US Armed Forces
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Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God
That is the full oath of enlistment in the US Armed Forces
now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution? :noid
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now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution? :noid
Depends what the UCMJ says about it.... :noid
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Taking things out of context, adding to them or leaving parts out is never in good form when debating....
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God
That is the full oath of enlistment in the US Armed Forces
Putting it completely in context doesn't change my point, or do anything for his. That's why I snipped it. His oath is still to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. If a federal law is unconstitutional, I wouldn't go calling people who fight against it the scum of society. They're doing his job.
Cap - for someone who has already tried to insult my intelligence, you aren't keeping up with me very well: Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration)
now here's the biggie......what if the presidents orders go against the constitution?
If and when this happens, I suppose soldiers need to ask themselves who and what they're really fighting for.
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Putting it completely in context doesn't change my point, or do anything for his. That's why I snipped it. His oath is still to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. If a federal law is unconstitutional, I wouldn't go calling people who fight against it the scum of society. They're doing his job.
Cap - for someone who has already tried to insult my intelligence, you aren't keeping up with me very well:
If and when this happens, I suppose soldiers need to ask themselves who and what they're really fighting for.
Again.
The whole part of bearing true faith and allegiance?
The small tidbit about whose orders you are to follow ?
These are pretty important, compelling and aren't things a would-be soldier, Marine, etc would be able to omit. Why would you?
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Again.
The whole part of bearing true faith and allegiance?
The small tidbit about whose orders you are to follow ?
These are pretty important, compelling and aren't things a would-be soldier, Marine, etc would be able to omit. Why would you?
They bear true faith and allegiance "to the same," meaning, once again, The Constitution.
Further, that document is technically still the highest law in the land. All other powers are subservient to it.
Anyway, this is getting to be a pretty interesting and important discussion, so I invite anyone who would like to continue it to PM me, so that we CAN continue it. All are welcome, but I'm bowing out of this thread.
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Not that it really applies to this particular topic (illegal immigration), Serenity, but do keep in mind that much of federal law is unconstitutional, so by supporting much of it, you're actually breaking that oath of enlistment you took:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"
It's not all black or white, regardless of what your superiors need you to believe.
I will grant you, in some situations, this may be a valid point. However, where is law on illegal immigration unconstitutional? We are not banning immigration, we are simply requiring certain paths to be followed.
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You guys switched really fast. The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage? You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations, dishwashers etc.
Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day. All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.
Semp
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NO, will not. those that employ illegals will not pay minimum wage.
read that article again. illegal immigration is what drove wages down for hard working americans.
when there's 5 illegals living in one apartment, with no family to support, no insurance of any kind, no bills....they can afford to work that cheap.
go after those that employ the illegals, and the illegals themselves...as arizona is.....and the problem will go away.
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You guys switched really fast. The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage? You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations, dishwashers etc.
Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day. All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.
Semp
Why should I?
I've educated myself. Some of the money earned through the blood, sweat and tears that I gave while working for 4 years for my Uncle (Sam, if you didn't figure it out). Some of the money from my own pocket.
My first job was working on a farm. Up at 4AM, milking cows by 4:30 and mowing/raking/bailing/throwing hay/straw til 4PM. The hours and the wages sucked, but it was honest work.
I've also pumped gas, worked as a dishwasher, and at the car-wash.
All of that made me realize that I didn't want to do it until retirement, therefore I took steps to get a better job. I've paid my dues as a teenager and later on as a citizen. I also feel that I have fulfilled my obligation to defend my country.
Advocating that it's OK to let folks immigrate illegally so we do not have to work crappy jobs at minimum wage is absolutely ludicrous. Teaching our children and youth that working jobs like that is "low-class" or beneath them is half the problem. It gives them a false sense of entitlement. The more this happens, the less apt folks are to take these jobs. I bought my first car with money I made on the farm. I also learned the meaning of honest work.
It has nothing to do with patriotism, and everything to do with economics. I am very proud of my country and the fact that it still allows folks to immigrate here and become citizens. After all, when you polish it to the brass tacks, everyone in the US (natives excepted), is an immigrant (or descendant of one).
Here's a secret you can pass on to the illegals.
If you were a citizen, you wouldn't be forced to work for less-than minimum wage. :aok
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I just found out that an extended family member who is 16 is now pregnant. The parents, who have 6 other kids that we (the working class) are supporting, are planning a baby shower.
When asked if we were going to attend, I bluntly told her that if we did I would gift wrap a hanger, scissors, and a box of condoms since I just cannot condone teenage pregnancy.
A child may be a gift from (above) but a roll of duct tape to hold your legs together is a gift from Home Depot.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Guys,
if its people not sharing the tax burden your going after, then you shouldn't stop at illegals... There are many more entities that account for a lot more money that don't pay their share, yet benefit from the system for their success.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html)
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You still didn't answer the question, who will do the jobs?
Semp
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Guys,
if its people not sharing the tax burden your going after, then you shouldn't stop at illegals... There are many more entities that account for a lot more money that don't pay their share, yet benefit from the system for their success.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html)
so we're back to you being fine with criminals? what about the question i asked before?
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You still didn't answer the question, who will do the jobs?
Semp
young americans, and legal immigrants.
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Guys,
if its people not sharing the tax burden your going after, then you shouldn't stop at illegals... There are many more entities that account for a lot more money that don't pay their share, yet benefit from the system for their success.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html)
Yes, but aren't those other "entities" American Citizens??
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so we're back to you being fine with criminals? what about the question i asked before?
No cap1, the only revelation was that you fantasize about behaving as a criminal as a means to punish teenagers.
in my mind that is it. if they continue to repeat such serious mistakes, then it would seem to be the only solution. i can't imagine in the timeframe to have 5 kids that no one took the time to tell her or the guys doing this to her that it is wrong.
Of course it's ok for Americans and their corporations to avoid paying their fair share (sarcasm intended).
Yes, but aren't those other "entities" American Citizens??
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No cap1, the only revelation was that you fantasize about behaving as a criminal as a means to punish teenagers.
so taking the time to tell teens why they're wrong is criminal behavior? or putting them in jail is criminal behavior?
i like how you jumped back to this to avoid answering the question concerning illegals.
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so taking the time to tell teens why they're wrong is criminal behavior? or putting them in jail is criminal behavior?
i like how you jumped back to this to avoid answering the question concerning illegals.
Sure cap, because doing this is 'telling them'...
are some very very ungood thought peculating in my head about punishment for sluts like her......
You can try and lie, but I'm going to call you out on it... every time. I don't believe any questions as asked of me, if your referring to Semp's post, I believe it was directed towards you. I brought up the same concern.
That is very true, it would cause a massive disruption to the economy, as they are an integrated part of the economy today. Although I would prefer an level playing field and would be willing to pay higher prices for it, claiming that we need to go after illegal immigration seems to be a dishonest policy if we are unwilling to accept the consequences. If we need them to uphold our economy, then they should be allowed to be here legally, if we don't want the help, go after the people encouraging them to be here, if we just want cheap exploitive labor (black market labor force, aka illegal workers), well shame on us, we get what we deserve.
All this being said, I still believe that underneath, its not about employment, its about xenophobia, much like Germany's chancellors remarks.
What else do you need cap?
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dang those evil empire corporations that create jobs for us all, Ardy! :mad:
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Of course it's ok for Americans and their corporations to avoid paying their fair share (sarcasm intended).
The thing is, we're NOT talking about Americans here.
This discussion seems to be about people who sneak into this country illegally and the sissies that coddle them.
We can't take care of the world.
We're lucky to be able to take care of our own.
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dang those evil empire corporations that create jobs for us all, Ardy! :mad:
lol, I am only trying to illuminate that if the core rational is one of tax revenue, there are other entities that if were to contribute their intended 'fair share' would amount to much more tax revenue than what is lost from being unable to tax illegal immigrants.
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Sure cap, because doing this is 'telling them'...
You can try and lie, but I'm going to call you out on it... every time. I don't believe any questions as asked of me, if your referring to Semp's post, I believe it was directed towards you. I brought up the same concern.
What else do you need cap?
we already covered that....with the putting them in jail thing.
the question asked was concerning illegals.
you're driving with your wife, and kids. car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. illegal driving the car that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?
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I would also like to make a suggestion to anyone who is for "open" borders and taking care of all these poor illegals.
Invite them into YOUR home and pay for their food,clothes, medical bills, education etc. etc.
Oh and don't forget to learn to speak spanish, you wouldn't want to put them out by making them learn the language of their benefactors.
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lol, I am only trying to illuminate that if the core rational is one of tax revenue, there are other entities that if were to contribute their intended 'fair share' would amount to much more tax revenue than what is lost from being unable to tax illegal immigrants.
tax revenue is only part of it.
the core rational....i'll type this slowly for ya..........
they are C R I M I N A L S
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you're driving with your wife, and kids. car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. illegal driving the car that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?
Cap, the fact that they blew through the red light and killed the family except the driver would make them criminal, regardless of being illegal or not. Any way you cut it is, vehicular manslaughter in the very least. The situation could easily be replaced with 'a drunk driver', a 'a driver texting on his/her cell phone', etc.... The fact was the driver blew through the light, not that the driver was illegally here.
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Cap, the fact that they blew through the red light and killed the family except the driver would make them criminals, regardless of being illegal or not. Any way you cut it is, vehicular manslaughter in the very least. The situation could easily be replaced with 'a drunk driver', a 'a driver texting on his/her cell phone', etc.... The fact was the driver blew through the light, not that the driver was illegally here.
I CAN'T believe you missed the point of that question....well.....yea, i can.
the point was, that had that illegal not been driving that car illegally, while illegally residing in the country, that accident would never have happened.
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I CAN'T believe you missed the point of that question....well.....yea, i can.
the point was, that had that illegal not been driving that car illegally, while illegally residing in the country, that accident would never have happened.
The same 'logic' would be used for all the example cases used to replace 'illegal immigrant'.
If the driver was not driving drunk, then the accident would not have happened.
If the driver was not texting, then the accident would not have happened.
etc..etc..etc...
look at this... I can rearrange the same question to fit any situation...
you're driving with your wife, and kids. car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. cap1 is driving the car, pretending its a p38, that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?
If cap wasn't there, he wouldn't have hit you (stated in a moron voice).
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The same 'logic' would be used for all the example cases used to replace 'illegal immigrant'.
If the driver was not driving drunk, then the accident would not have happened.
If the driver was not texting, then the accident would not have happened.
etc..etc..etc...
look at this... I can rearrange the same question to fit any situation...
you're driving with your wife, and kids. car blows a traffic light, broadsides you. you're the only survivor in the van. cap1 is driving the car, pretending its a p38, that hit ya.
would you still feel that they should be allowed here?
If cap wasn't there, he wouldn't have hit you (stated in a moron voice).
funny you hit on a couple other things i have big issues with..........
do you think it's ok to do those too?
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funny you hit on a couple other things i have big issues with..........
do you think it's ok to do those too?
no, but my point was that your illogical question can be applied to any situation, even pretending to fly a p38 while driving. It proves nothing other than if the other car wasn't there to hit you it wouldn't have.
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You guys switched really fast. The original question still is, if illegal immigrants don't do the low jobs that we don't want, then who will? Some of you guys are unemplyed will you work on the fields for minimum. Wage? You really want to get rid of illegal immigration put your money where your mouth is, encourage yourself or your kids or your neighbors to take the jobs back look for jobs in farms, carwashez, gas stations, dishwashers etc.
Wow I just have a great idea, let's have a national find me a minimum or less than minimum wage day. All true patriots should join since this will be the sure way to get rid if illegal immigration.
Semp
What Cap and VonMessa said: LEGAL immigrants and young teens. My first job was working minimum wage as a janitor. Next semester, when my schedule opens up, I'm probably going to be picking up another minimum wage job in fast food, or something similar.
LEGAL immigrants are willing to do the work, for MINIMUM wage. However, ILLEGALS do it even cheaper and don't have as many bills to pay.
Also, let me point out, you folks ALWAYS point at the educated individuals around you and say "Why aren't YOU working in a farm then?" Messa hit it on the head: You look to the people who have invested years and a small fortune into their education and career experience so they WON'T be working for minimum wage. There are kids who don't have that skill set out working their arses off every day.
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no, but my point was that your illogical question can be applied to any situation, even pretending to fly a p38 while driving. It proves nothing other than if the other car wasn't there to hit you it wouldn't have.
this is true. we finally agree on something.
if i were pretending to fly a p38 while driving my dakota at 75mph down the freeway, and i cause a major pile-up, then guess what? i'm now the criminal, and should be treated as such. i shouldn't have been there if i wanted to pretend to fly a p38.
if a drunk driver were placed into the question i asked, then same thing. he should be treated as a criminal, and will be. he shou'dn't have been there if he wanted to get drunk off his butt.
if an illegal does it.....well.....he should not have been able to, as he's already illegally here.
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What Cap and VonMessa said: LEGAL immigrants and young teens. My first job was working minimum wage as a janitor. Next semester, when my schedule opens up, I'm probably going to be picking up another minimum wage job in fast food, or something similar.
LEGAL immigrants are willing to do the work, for MINIMUM wage. However, ILLEGALS do it even cheaper and don't have as many bills to pay.
Also, let me point out, you folks ALWAYS point at the educated individuals around you and say "Why aren't YOU working in a farm then?" Messa hit it on the head: You look to the people who have invested years and a small fortune into their education and career experience so they WON'T be working for minimum wage. There are kids who don't have that skill set out working their arses off every day.
then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?
and cap1 to give you an idea of how selective we are at calling somebody a criminal. I dont introduce my gf as a criminal to my friends, and neither do you, or any of your friends. she got a dui after years of driving drunk, which according to the law, she's a criminal, and so is everybody that ever got a ticket, dui, any offense, not matter how big or small. so do you call your friends or family criminals? of course not, because that term only applies to a certain group.
and for the record, i am not pro illegal immigration, but I am not naive to think that if we get rid of all of them, the jobs will be done by citizens or legal immigrants.
semp
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then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?
Because those jobs are currently being filled for less than minimum wage, which is MINIMUM for a reason.
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then food for thought, why arent they doing the job right now? no, seriously with the unemployment rate we have now, you would think that there would be lots of unemployed folks trying to get these jobs that illegals are doing right now, but that is not the case right now, is it?
and cap1 to give you an idea of how selective we are at calling somebody a criminal. I dont introduce my gf as a criminal to my friends, and neither do you, or any of your friends. she got a dui after years of driving drunk, which according to the law, she's a criminal, and so is everybody that ever got a ticket, dui, any offense, not matter how big or small. so do you call your friends or family criminals? of course not, because that term only applies to a certain group.
and for the record, i am not pro illegal immigration, but I am not naive to think that if we get rid of all of them, the jobs will be done by citizens or legal immigrants.
semp
did she continue driving drunk?
go back..aawww..hell....wait.... .here. i'll put the link here again.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
go there and read the entire article. pay attention when you do....don't just "scan" through it so you can say you read it. really read it. you'll learn why nothing is being done about it now.
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I am a few pages late, but I'd like to make a point. It seems that what it comes down do is that some people take without giving back. However, it seems to me that the real issue is that "Hey, I payed my taxes working my butt off, minimum wage, my mom never got public aid, etc etc". Meaning, I paid, why aren't they paying. So, given that attitude I sagest the following. Take back from the society only in proportion to what you payed. We all take every day by using schools, police, using roads, infrastructure but it does not bother us. It only bothers us if someone we think has not payed is taking. And I say we think because we really know nothing about them other than a few lines some unknown poster typed here. So, here is the change. Only take back in proportion to what you gave. If I payed taxes on 150,000$ salary and you only payed on 40,000$ I would like to use the paved roads and you use the dirt streets. I'd like to use the good schools and your kids should go to the ones the taxes you payed on your 40K or 30K salary helped build. It sounds to me that this is what you guys think is fair so lets do it.
My point is, you are bothered by what someone may be taking but you are not bothered about what you took. You think that your minimum wage taxes buy you the right to judge and dictate what other people should do based on the fact that you payed and they didn't :rofl Lets cut the BS. You probably got everything back on a tax refund at the end of the year. What should the people whose taxes for year equal your life time earnings should be asking for then? Should they be judging your decision and telling you what to do? After all, it was your decisions that made you earn less than them.
I call hypocrisy :aok Lets start acting as a society that cares about each other. My brother in law was whining about the same issues. He could not accept that he was paying for someone else. BS of coarse since his 26K driving a truck paid for nothing. He got most of it back as a refund. He lost his job last week. Is it ok for me to pay for him now? Stop looking at money to define a persons value in the society. If you are going to, keep in mind that most people here are not worth match in dollars. But they may worth a lot as a person. The kid of the high school girl may grow up to cure your canser one day. But with your criteria, you wont be worth his time if he becomes a doctor.
Not directed to anyone personally.
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I am a few pages late, but I'd like to make a point. It seems that what it comes down do is that some people take without giving back. However, it seems to me that the real issue is that "Hey, I payed my taxes working my butt off, minimum wage, my mom never got public aid, etc etc". Meaning, I paid, why aren't they paying. So, given that attitude I sagest the following. Take back from the society only in proportion to what you payed. We all take every day by using schools, police, using roads, infrastructure but it does not bother us. It only bothers us if someone we think has not payed is taking. And I say we think because we really know nothing about them other than a few lines some unknown poster typed here. So, here is the change. Only take back in proportion to what you gave. If I payed taxes on 150,000$ salary and you only payed on 40,000$ I would like to use the paved roads and you use the dirt streets. I'd like to use the good schools and your kids should go to the ones the taxes you payed on your 40K or 30K salary helped build. It sounds to me that this is what you guys think is fair so lets do it.roads are a bad example. they are(or are supposed to be) paid for by the tax on gasoline. here in nj, that tax is(the last i checked) 75 cents on a gallon(gas is $2.61 a gallon here right now)
My point is, you are bothered by what someone may be taking but you are not bothered about what you took. You think that your minimum wage taxes buy you the right to judge and dictate what other people should do based on the fact that you payed and they didn't :rofl Lets cut the BS. You probably got everything back on a tax refund at the end of the year. What should the people whose taxes for year equal your life time earnings should be asking for then? Should they be judging your decision and telling you what to do? After all, it was your decisions that made you earn less than them.
I call hypocrisy :aok Lets start acting as a society that cares about each other. some of us do care for others. i do my part through Civil Air Patrol. My brother in law was whining about the same issues. He could not accept that he was paying for someone else. BS of coarse since his 26K driving a truck paid for nothing. He got most of it back as a refund. He lost his job last week. Is it ok for me to pay for him now?he paid into unempoyment, did he not? his employer had to match those payments. Stop looking at money to define a persons value in the society. If you are going to, keep in mind that most people here are not worth match in dollars. But they may worth a lot as a person. The kid of the high school girl may grow up to cure your canser one day. But with your criteria, you wont be worth his time if he becomes a doctor.
Not directed to anyone personally.
it's not about the money. it's about them coming here, taking jobs that legal citizens would/could be working. they drive down standards when they do this. they break the law every second of their existence on this side of the border. they never stop.
as mentioned above, i don't think a single one of us that've posted against illegals lacks compassion for our society. rather we care enough about our society, that we do not wish to see it driven into the ground, which is what is/will happen(ing).
i give anywhere from 30 to 50 hours a month to civil air patrol. i am on wing staff here in nj. i am active in my squadron. i do whatever i can for these kids, as they work their tulips off to be in civil air patrol.
if i recall, serenity also is a member of cap, and i think you'd find that this young man gives more to his community than a lot of older folks.
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CAP1....
The analogy that comes to mind about this whole 'illegal alien' fiasco is that of a ship that has gone down in sight of land. The water is full of survivors swimming for the life boats. Their are dozens of lifeboats...
All of the 'victims' are swimming for a single life boat...because it has limited luxury amenities such as running water, food, sanitation and cold beer..
Everybody knows what is going to happen...but they ignore the certain fate and destruction...
There is only so much room in this lifeboat, and she is in danger of capsizing. Resources grow scarce and competition for them increases daily...
I am not into it at all...
These folks are more than welcome to join our boat...as long as they fill out the paper work and sign a contract to assimilate; learn our laws, culture, language and heritage...and promise to become American...
The rest can pound sand...
Out
Oneway
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CAP1....
The analogy that comes to mind about this whole 'illegal alien' fiasco is that of a ship that has gone down in sight of land. The water is full of survivors swimming for the life boats. Their are dozens of lifeboats...
All of the 'victims' are swimming for a single life boat...because it has limited luxury amenities such as running water, food, sanitation and cold beer..
Everybody knows what is going to happen...but they ignore the certain fate and destruction...
There is only so much room in this lifeboat, and she is in danger of capsizing. Resources grow scarce and competition for them increases daily...
I am not into it at all...
These folks are more than welcome to join our boat...as long as they fill out the paper work and sign a contract to assimilate; learn our laws, culture, language and heritage...and promise to become American...
The rest can pound sand...
Out
Oneway
QFT brother, every word of it!
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it's not about the money. it's about them coming here, taking jobs that legal citizens would/could be working. they drive down standards when they do this. they break the law every second of their existence on this side of the border. they never stop.
as mentioned above, i don't think a single one of us that've posted against illegals lacks compassion for our society. rather we care enough about our society, that we do not wish to see it driven into the ground, which is what is/will happen(ing).
i give anywhere from 30 to 50 hours a month to civil air patrol. i am on wing staff here in nj. i am active in my squadron. i do whatever i can for these kids, as they work their tulips off to be in civil air patrol.
if i recall, serenity also is a member of cap, and i think you'd find that this young man gives more to his community than a lot of older folks.
Was not talking about e legal aliens. As I said, I am a few pages late. I was referring to the earlier comments about the little slut that had 5 kids. It would have been perfectly fine if daddy had a mill in the bank no?
As for the elegal aliens, the difference between a legal and an elegal is about 800 - 2000$ in fees. Status does not transform the person. Some are great some are garbage. I dont see how you can put all of the in one bucket and claim that the legals are good and the elegals are bad. As for the jobs they take, yeah, there is huge line of blond kids with blue eyes waiting to become fry cooks and busboys :lol
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CAP1....
The analogy that comes to mind about this whole 'illegal alien' fiasco is that of a ship that has gone down in sight of land. The water is full of survivors swimming for the life boats. Their are dozens of lifeboats...
All of the 'victims' are swimming for a single life boat...because it has limited luxury amenities such as running water, food, sanitation and cold beer..
Everybody knows what is going to happen...but they ignore the certain fate and destruction...
There is only so much room in this lifeboat, and she is in danger of capsizing. Resources grow scarce and competition for them increases daily...
I am not into it at all...
These folks are more than welcome to join our boat...as long as they fill out the paper work and sign a contract to assimilate; learn our laws, culture, language and heritage...and promise to become American...
The rest can pound sand...
Out
Oneway
bolded.......that sir is the point i keep trying to make.
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Was not talking about e legal aliens. As I said, I am a few pages late. I was referring to the earlier comments about the little slut that had 5 kids. It would have been perfectly fine if daddy had a mill in the bank no? no sir, it would not be ok. she was/is? only 15 years old. no matter the amount of money, she and the person that impregnated her are in no way shape or form capable of caring properly for those kids. the fact that they cannot afford to care for them in this situation is just another nail in the coffin. when it comes down to it, the dude(s) raped her....at least according to law.
As for the elegal aliens, the difference between a legal and an elegal is about 800 - 2000$ in fees. Status does not transform the person. Some are great some are garbage. I dont see how you can put all of the in one bucket and claim that the legals are good and the elegals are bad. As for the jobs they take, yeah, there is huge line of blond kids with blue eyes waiting to become fry cooks and busboys :lol
i'm not claiming legals are automatically good. but by coming here legally, they are given,,,,or rather they earn a chance to prove themselves.
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i'm not claiming legals are automatically good. but by coming here legally, they are given,,,,or rather they earn a chance to prove themselves.
Hat tip Cap... :aok
Whenever I meet an individual who got here the proper and legal way...I bend over backwards to thank them...respect them...and congratulate them...and if I have an opportunity for them...they move to the front of the line...
The 'legal' immigrants to this nation are a treasure to be coveted...for they have assigned to themselves the requisite burdens of our society and nation...a Nation of laws, procedures and process...
Legal immigrants are a national treasure...and if you have ever seen a 'swearing' in ceremony you will never forget it...they are often more 'American' than Americans...
God bless them and welcome aboard...
Out
Oneway
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Hat tip Cap... :aok
Whenever I meet an individual who got here the proper and legal way...I bend over backwards to thank them...respect them...and congratulate them...and if I have an opportunity for them...they move to the front of the line...
The 'legal' immigrants to this nation are a treasure to be coveted...for they have assigned to themselves the requisite burdens of our society and nation...a Nation of laws, procedures and process...
Legal immigrants are a national treasure...and if you have ever seen a 'swearing' in ceremony you will never forget it...they are often more 'American' than Americans...
God bless them and welcome aboard...
Out
Oneway
Would you like to explain to me how would you come here legally if you are from, ohhhhh, lets say Mexico. Assuming you have no relatives here. Why is it that if you are from Ireland you can come here no problem? I am sure given a choice they would be legal, but do they have that choice? Please explain how one can come here legally if he was unfortunate enough to be born in one of the countries the US only accepts elegals from. I say accepts because if we really did not want them here, they would not be here.
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Hat tip Cap... :aok
Whenever I meet an individual who got here the proper and legal way...I bend over backwards to thank them...respect them...and congratulate them...and if I have an opportunity for them...they move to the front of the line...
The 'legal' immigrants to this nation are a treasure to be coveted...for they have assigned to themselves the requisite burdens of our society and nation...a Nation of laws, procedures and process...
Legal immigrants are a national treasure...and if you have ever seen a 'swearing' in ceremony you will never forget it...they are often more 'American' than Americans...
God bless them and welcome aboard...
Out
Oneway
very well said.
one other thing would be that somewhere along the line, we ALL came from another country.
me? german and english. i could barley understand my great grandmother, but she was one of the sweetest people in the world. :aok
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Would you like to explain to me how would you come here legally if you are from, ohhhhh, lets say Mexico. Assuming you have no relatives here. Why is it that if you are from Ireland you can come here no problem? I am sure given a choice they would be legal, but do they have that choice? Please explain how one can come here legally if he was unfortunate enough to be born in one of the countries the US only accepts elegals from. I say accepts because if we really did not want them here, they would not be here.
is there a ban on immigrating from mexico? i ask this in all seriousness.
also, i wasn't talking just mexicans,....i was talking any illegal immigrant, regardless of from whenst they came.
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Would you like to explain to me how would you come here legally if you are from, ohhhhh, lets say Mexico. Assuming you have no relatives here. Why is it that if you are from Ireland you can come here no problem? I am sure given a choice they would be legal, but do they have that choice? Please explain how one can come here legally if he was unfortunate enough to be born in one of the countries the US only accepts elegals from. I say accepts because if we really did not want them here, they would not be here.
Utter rubbish...
I would go as far as to say that if we didn't have hundreds of thousands of illegals flowing across the southern border unimpeded, and the citizens of Mexico decided collectively to obey the rule of law they would find themselves in line along side of their Irish contemporaries...and I do not believe for a moment their is a bias against Mexican or Latino immigrants who follow the law because the majority of their brothers decide to swim across a river...
If your premise (that Mexican citizens are Carte Blanc denied due process because they are "Mexican") is indeed valid, I will argue that the massive illegal inflow is to blame...not machinations of the system or the people who implement it.
It sounds to me...if your point is valid (I don't believe it is)...that illegals are to blame for denying the 'legal' immigrants from Mexico a fair shake...so what say you about that?
You can't have it both ways...you cannot excuse illegal immigration and the response to and thereof as congruent...or exculpatory to one another...
We have laws and you follow them....
Their is NO Valid argument to support the notion of an open border...despite what you may wish politically...
Nothing to see here...
Move along
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Utter rubbish...
I would go as far as to say that if we didn't have hundreds of thousands of illegals flowing across the southern border unimpeded, and the citizens of Mexico decided collectively to obey the rule of law they would find themselves in line along side of their Irish contemporaries...and I do not believe for a moment their is a bias against Mexican or Latino immigrants who follow the law because the majority of their brothers decide to swim across a river...
If your premise (that Mexican citizens are Carte Blanc denied due process because they are "Mexican") is indeed valid, I will argue that the massive illegal inflow is to blame...not machinations of the system or the people who implement it.
It sounds to me...if your point is valid (I don't believe it is)...that illegals are to blame for denying the 'legal' immigrants from Mexico a fair shake...
Their is NO Valid argument to support the notion of an open border...despite what you may wish politically...
Nothing to see here...
Move along
Not capable of having a conversation unless we agree with your ignorance. :aok
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is there a ban on immigrating from mexico? i ask this in all seriousness.
also, i wasn't talking just mexicans,....i was talking any illegal immigrant, regardless of from whenst they came.
I have not looked into it in a very long time, but when I did, the US policy on immigrants was based on how many people of a specific country are here already. So, not a ban on mexico but the US felt that there were plenty of Mexicans here. The Iralnd example came from my friend. She got a green card and moved here. When I asked how, she said she just applied for it. The US back then was giving x number of green cards per year to Irish but 0 to others. I think if you were from Denmark you got in automatically no questions asked because there are not enough Danish people here.
Not sure how it works now. It sounds like you guys think you can just apply for a green card and the US gives you one? Far from the truth. The borders are not open. If you dont have relatives here (and that process can take up 10 or more years) or are not from one of the special countries, you are not getting in legally. Do you honestly think that given a choice these guys would say no all the benefits that come with citizenship and come here to work for almost nothing without health care or pention?
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I have not looked into it in a very long time, but when I did, the US policy on immigrants was based on how many people of a specific country are here already. So, not a ban on mexico but the US felt that there were plenty of Mexicans here. The Iralnd example came from my friend. She got a green card and moved here. When I asked how, she said she just applied for it. The US back then was giving x number of green cards per year to Irish but 0 to others. I think if you were from Denmark you got in automatically no questions asked because there are not enough Danish people here.
Not sure how it works now. It sounds like you guys think you can just apply for a green card and the US gives you one? Far from the truth. The borders are not open. If you dont have relatives here (and that process can take up 10 or more years) or are not from one of the special countries, you are not getting in legally. Do you honestly think that given a choice these guys would say no all the benefits that come with citizenship and come here to work for almost nothing without health care or pention?
well, i know for fact that my friend karin had one hell of a time moving here from germany. she had a job lined up before she came here and all. they were going to deport her, but her company got her a good lawyer, and she finally got through it.....but the point is, that she went through the process legally.
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The quota's regarding immigration are not county specific but rather hemispheric specific...
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965
An annual limitation of 300,000 visas was established for immigrants, including 170,000 from Eastern Hemisphere countries, with no more than 20,000 per country. By 1968, the annual limitation from the Western Hemisphere was set at 120,000 immigrants, with visas available on a first-come, first-served basis. However, the number of family reunification visas was unlimited. While as of 2010[update] there are no quotas for immigrant spouses of US citizens, quotas for other types of relatives of US citizens have since been instituted.
Educate yourself before flapping the gums...
We have hemispherical caps and country caps...
Up to and not exceeding 20,000 (Mexico)...not exceeding 120,000 (Western Hemisphere) will be considered/accepted....
There is not some Wizard of OZ guy behind the curtain denying Mexican or Latino citizens just because they are from Mexico or Latin America...
Our system follows a series of laws and procedures prescribed by and adopted by Congress and signed into Law by the President of the United States...
I am not sure what candy land you live in...but your vision is far from reality friend
Out
Oneway
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well, i know for fact that my friend karin had one hell of a time moving here from germany. she had a job lined up before she came here and all. they were going to deport her, but her company got her a good lawyer, and she finally got through it.....but the point is, that she went through the process legally.
Yes, if your company is willing to get you the visa. But she is going to have a hell of a time getting a different job. BTW, Germany is one of the easier countries to get a working visa and she had the choice. See? Given the choice, she went through the legal venue.
I ll put it this way. If I am hungry and my kids are hungry, and I know there is work and food across the border but I wont be allowed in legally, guess what. I will cross elegaly and hope for the best.
You can not go through the legal venue if there isn't one available.
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The quota's regarding immigration are not county specific but rather hemispheric specific...
Educate yourself before flapping the gums...
We have hemispherical caps and country caps...
How you doing, friend :rofl Don;t call me that please. We just met :lol
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I have not looked into it in a very long time, but when I did, the US policy on immigrants was based on how many people of a specific country are here already. So, not a ban on mexico but the US felt that there were plenty of Mexicans here. The Iralnd example came from my friend. She got a green card and moved here. When I asked how, she said she just applied for it. The US back then was giving x number of green cards per year to Irish but 0 to others. I think if you were from Denmark you got in automatically no questions asked because there are not enough Danish people here.
Not sure how it works now. It sounds like you guys think you can just apply for a green card and the US gives you one? Far from the truth. The borders are not open. If you dont have relatives here (and that process can take up 10 or more years) or are not from one of the special countries, you are not getting in legally. Do you honestly think that given a choice these guys would say no all the benefits that come with citizenship and come here to work for almost nothing without health care or pention?
Speaking of Ireland...
I DARE you to try to get a job, or live there now if you are not a native or a direct descendant of one.
... and folks think our immigration laws are tough...
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Speaking of Ireland...
I DARE you to try to get a job, or live there now if you are not a native or a direct descendant of one.
... and folks think our immigration laws are tough...
I am not in Ireland. Nor do I want to go there. I am sure things are bad in Afghanistan also. However, we are here. I could care less about what other countries are doing. I don;t even think I said anything about our laws being fair or not fair. I'm just trying to explain why they come in illegally and that their illegal status does not make them bad people. They are just trying to make a better life for themselves. I also said that if we really did not want them here, they would not be here. It is more convenient to allow "almost" slave labor by using illegals. The reality is that we can stop them from coming in. Not every single one of them, but the majority. You have any idea what the cost of some things will go up to if we stopped them from coming in?
Then there is the BS about taking our jobs. Really? You know who is taking our jobs? The legals ;) So, when you complain about that what you are really saying is that you don;t want any Mexican taking your job. The jobs the illegals do, no one wants to do. If you lost your job to an illegal alien, you need to take a good look at what you have accomplished in your life.
Yes, I know, we are not talking about Mexicans here. After all this is not a racist country :lol We are just talking in general about the illegal aliens floating in from France and Germany :rofl
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Oh dear the Germans off again, dust off those tin hats. :neener:
European Union has been championed by the French and Germans for years now it's gone pear shaped they start moaning. :x
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Not capable of having a conversation unless we agree with your ignorance. :aok
Says the man who claims you aren't allowed to legally immigrate from Mexico...
See? Given the choice, she went through the legal venue.
I've got news for you buddy: EVERYONE has a choice between the legal and illegal route.
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Says the man who claims you aren't allowed to legally immigrate from Mexico...
I've got news for you buddy: EVERYONE has a choice between the legal and illegal route.
You guys attract each other eh? Look I may be right or I may be wrong, but I did not come out attacking any one like your buddy and you did. So what is your theory then? Why do they pay thousands of dollars to a guide to get them through illegally? Why not just pay less money for the visas that are freely given to them? Is it because they don;t want any benefits? Do you think these things through or do you just assume they are criminals because of the way they look? You sound like you ignored everything I said and tried to defend your buddy. So, if they do have the choice, why do they risk their lives crossing the border? I am interested to know what you think the reason is.
Thank you, Buddy :lol
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You guys attract each other eh? Look I may be right or I may be wrong, but I did not come out attacking any one like your buddy and you did. So what is your theory then? Why do they pay thousands of dollars to a guide to get them through illegally? Why not just pay less money for the visas that are freely given to them? Is it because they don;t want any benefits? Do you think these things through or do you just assume they are criminals because of the way they look? You sound like you ignored everything I said and tried to defend your buddy. So, if they do have the choice, why do they risk their lives crossing the border? I am interested to know what you think the reason is.
Thank you, Buddy :lol
RESPONSIBILITY.
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RESPONSIBILITY.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
oh man, not even you believe that.
semp
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RESPONSIBILITY.
Well CAP, at list you are talking about it. These guys don't. My answer to what you said is that my responsibility towards my kids takes priority. As I said, if my kids are hungry and I know there is food across the border and the only choice is to cross illegally, I am crossing.
Just to be clear though. Your answer to my question on why are they crossing illegally if they can do it legally is "RESPONSIBILITY"? So the only reason in your mind is that they are all irresponsible? I can only smile at that, shake my head, and move on. :lol
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Well CAP, at list you are talking about it. These guys don't. My answer to what you said is that my responsibility towards my kids takes priority. As I said, if my kids are hungry and I know there is food across the border and the only choice is to cross illegally, I am crossing.
Just to be clear though. Your answer to my question on why are they crossing illegally if they can do it legally is "RESPONSIBILITY"? So the only reason in your mind is that they are all irresponsible? I can only smile at that, shake my head, and move on. :lol
first off....i didn't mean to type that in caps lock........my invoicing program needs caps lock on........
now...i understand your point. but it costs them more to cross illegally, i think, than it does legally. so they spend money that could be feeding their families....assuming they really are trying to do that.....than they would if they crossed legally.
then they have to spend time, money, and effort hiding from authorities....well....not really anymore.....but you see the point.
if i'm going to spend money to try to get somewhere to feed my family, i'm gonna spend as little as i can.
as for my "responsibility" comment.......they may well be responsible in their home country. but they want to come here, and reap the benefits of living here, without taking on the responsibilities of the society that they live in while here.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
oh man, not even you believe that.
semp
uumm...yea, i do.
when i have a guy(the one i called ins on a couple of years ago) bragging about pa giving him a lisence even though he's not here legally.....ya i so.
when this same person answers my question of "why not just get your papers?" with "why?",,,,,,yes i do.
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first off....i didn't mean to type that in caps lock........my invoicing program needs caps lock on........
now...i understand your point. but it costs them more to cross illegally, i think, than it does legally. so they spend money that could be feeding their families....assuming they really are trying to do that.....than they would if they crossed legally.
then they have to spend time, money, and effort hiding from authorities....well....not really anymore.....but you see the point.
if i'm going to spend money to try to get somewhere to feed my family, i'm gonna spend as little as i can.
as for my "responsibility" comment.......they may well be responsible in their home country. but they want to come here, and reap the benefits of living here, without taking on the responsibilities of the society that they live in while here.
So we agree then? But the question remains. Why go through all that trouble if coming here legally is not a problem. Are they all just stupid?
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So we agree then? But the question remains. Why go through all that trouble if coming here legally is not a problem. Are they all just stupid?
no........they do not wish to accept the responsibility of becoming a legal citizen.
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no........they do not wish to accept the responsibility of becoming a legal citizen.
:lol i hope that helps you justify your feeling towards them.
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if they weren't stealing everything every second of every day, i would welcome them.
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if they weren't stealing everything every second of every day, i would welcome them.
:aok
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mexicons crossing German border it's as bad as that!
No wonder merkel dusting down colditz castle :)
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You guys attract each other eh? Look I may be right or I may be wrong, but I did not come out attacking any one like your buddy and you did. So what is your theory then? Why do they pay thousands of dollars to a guide to get them through illegally? Why not just pay less money for the visas that are freely given to them? Is it because they don;t want any benefits? Do you think these things through or do you just assume they are criminals because of the way they look? You sound like you ignored everything I said and tried to defend your buddy. So, if they do have the choice, why do they risk their lives crossing the border? I am interested to know what you think the reason is.
Thank you, Buddy :lol
I've already said it, because LEGAL immigration is a LONG, DIFFICULT process, as well it should be, because it ENSURES that these people UNDERSTAND the country and culture they are coming in to, and will be able to ASSIMILATE into the culture, rather than cling to their old culture and make us miserable.
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I have not looked into it in a very long time, but when I did, the US policy on immigrants was based on how many people of a specific country are here already. So, not a ban on mexico but the US felt that there were plenty of Mexicans here. The Iralnd example came from my friend. She got a green card and moved here. When I asked how, she said she just applied for it. The US back then was giving x number of green cards per year to Irish but 0 to others. I think if you were from Denmark you got in automatically no questions asked because there are not enough Danish people here.
Not sure how it works now. It sounds like you guys think you can just apply for a green card and the US gives you one? Far from the truth. The borders are not open. If you dont have relatives here (and that process can take up 10 or more years) or are not from one of the special countries, you are not getting in legally. Do you honestly think that given a choice these guys would say no all the benefits that come with citizenship and come here to work for almost nothing without health care or pention?
The Green Card backlog is (and has been for some time) an issue and it hurts future, prospective citizens . New ways must be implemented to streamline process (and even reduce costs).
http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/business-climate/15110148-1.html
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:lg8Nn8vTGfsJ:www.aila.org/content/default.aspx%3Fdocid%3D25509+green+card+backlog&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiBKRy5m2Eu6pgjBOU_Y2N-byCAwQHKu6z5WMnFvtBIFpGGaK93hXhdv3QqJ9Ercbbcb5Q4RubymQjsr-oiE9Pod6gVzXUpkFrpxdqQmWksQbPqSKbr0jm7yakw03NDTjBop37s&sig=AHIEtbRBAmmCz0IQzZDQYLI9i6EKCUhsLg
"It's a dream come true, but it's just that..... a dream."
http://www.youtube.com/v/RVhgb6yoc8w
The backlog can be severe to certain nationals as seen in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/v/0F5F9Wmfjd4
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I've already said it, because LEGAL immigration is a LONG, DIFFICULT process, as well it should be, because it ENSURES that these people UNDERSTAND the country and culture they are coming in to, and will be able to ASSIMILATE into the culture, rather than cling to their old culture and make us miserable.
Its all clear now lol. In your opinion, before someone gets a working visa from India (for example) to come work here legally, taking a job from an American that pays 100K or more per year, he some how learns, cares, or understands the culture? I have bad news for ya. They could care less! Most only speak broken English and they give nothing back. Not only they take a high paying job from an American, they send everything back to their country when done. According to you guys, that is perfectly fine because an American company that did not feel like paying an American what he is worth based on his investment of time and money to go to college and get a degree, managed to get a visa for a guy that will get payed only 20K or 30K. :aok WTG!!! Pick on the Mexicans that took your busboy jobs illegally :rofl
Told you before, its the legals that take your jobs (unless your dream job was to be a fry cook). All this is BS or complete luck of understanding of what your problems may be (or just a way to blame someone else for your problems?)
Legal does not make it right.
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Its all clear now lol. In your opinion, before someone gets a working visa from India (for example) to come work here legally, taking a job from an American that pays 100K or more per year, he some how learns, cares, or understands the culture? I have bad news for ya. They could care less! Most only speak broken English and they give nothing back. Not only they take a high paying job from an American, they send everything back to their country when done. According to you guys, that is perfectly fine because an American company that did not feel like paying an American what he is worth based on his investment of time and money to go to college and get a degree, managed to get a visa for a guy that will get payed only 20K or 30K. :aok WTG!!! Pick on the Mexicans that took your busboy jobs illegally :rofl
Told you before, its the legals that take your jobs (unless your dream job was to be a fry cook). All this is BS or complete luck of understanding of what your problems may be (or just a way to blame someone else for your problems?)
Legal does not make it right.
A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.
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A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.
THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.
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THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.
Very true as well.
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THose acquiring work visas will nt work for the cheap wages that those here illegally will work for.
Exactly what I said foo lol. They will take the 100K+ jobs from Americans that invested money and time into getting a degree. If you are competing with the illegals for the minimum wage jobs you have no one to blame but yourself. If you were born here and threw away all the opportunities this country has to offer to you don't blame them for it.
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A work visa is one thing. Have you seen the requirements for citizenship? They require many tests on culture, language, history, etc.
Why yes I have. They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol. So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?
I think the point got lost somewhere. I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open. I am just trying to explain why these people do cross. Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option. If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing. In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up. Legal immigrants on the other hand do.
Complain all you want. If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self. However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame? How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans?
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Exactly what I said foo lol. They will take the 100K+ jobs from Americans that invested money and time into getting a degree. If you are competing with the illegals for the minimum wage jobs you have no one to blame but yourself. If you were born here and threw away all the opportunities this country has to offer to you don't blame them for it.
Yeah, because I threw my life away when I chose to go to college and earn a degree... Because I am spending most of my free time training to be a Navy officer and don't have time for anything more than a small part-time job on the side that pays minimum wage, I should blame myself for throwing away the opportunity to try to land a 100K corporate gig...
Just because someone is working for minimum wage doesn't mean they've thrown away opportunities. Perhaps they are just trying to get their foot in the door of the industry, or they're a teen trying to earn some spending money, or someone paying their way through college?
Why yes I have. They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol. So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?
I think the point got lost somewhere. I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open. I am just trying to explain why these people do cross. Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option. If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing. In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up. Legal immigrants on the other hand do.
Complain all you want. If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self. However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame? How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans?
Actually, I don't think that would be a terribly bad idea to test Americans regularly. Don't toss in deportation, but I for one am embarrassed if I ever find someone from another country outscoring me in U.S. History.
I don't honestly care why they came here. Really, I don't give a flying ****. HOW they get here is what matters to me. Do it illegally and face consequences. Do it legally and welcome aboard!
Why are we not worried about folks at the top coming in and trying to earn 100K a year jobs? Because they aren't taking drastic paycuts to get the job, they aren't exploiting a lack of responsibility (i.e. not paying for insurance, etc.) to undercut their costs to snag the job. They are competing for the same pay, the same benefits, based on similar competency. If I'm going for a job at a fortune 500 company and I lose out to Jose, I know it's because he is better at the job, has a better resume, etc, and not because he's working for half the price, not paying for insurance, working a million hours a day, and dodging INS.
And again, just because someone didn't grow up dreaming to be a fry cook doesn't mean they won't get a job as one for a spell to pay their way. I dreamed of being a pilot in the U.S. Military. They wouldn't pay for me before college, so I earned my pilot's license by pushing a broom after class.
As far as legally, I've got news for you buddy. It's called integrity. When I worked for minimum wage, did I like the job? No. Did I like the pay? No. Did I have other options? I had a local tour company offering me a job flying tourists under the table. I would be doing what I love (flying all day) and get paid ten times what I was making. The catch? I was under 18, so I couldn't LEGALLY obtain a commercial ticket. Did I have a basic license? Yes. Was I certified in the aircraft? Yes. Would it put anyone in danger? No. Did I take it? No. Why? Because it was against the law, and my sense of integrity would sooner put me doing an honest days work.
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Why yes I have. They require you to know all the things that 80% of Americans don't remember lol. So, should we all take the test regularly and maybe deport our selves if we fail?
I think the point got lost somewhere. I never said that it is right to cross the border or that the borders should be open. I am just trying to explain why these people do cross. Waiting 10 to 20 years to enter legally is not an option. If I am hungry or my kids are hungry or if there is a war going on - right or wrong - I am crossing. In addition, I really don't think they take any jobs that anyone was really dreaming of doing when they were growing up. Legal immigrants on the other hand do.
Complain all you want. If you lost your fry cook job to an illegal, you have no one to blame but your self. However, if you invested 6 years of your life and 100K to a school and your government allows foreigners to take your job legally, who is to blame? How come no one is worried about that but every one is worried about Mexicans?
you're either missing a point here, ignoring it, or just enjoying the argument.
the illegal that comes in and takes the "fry cook" job will not be getting it because he's better qualified. he'll get it because he's willing to work for absurdly low wages, whereas the legal resident cannot afford to do that. after all he's got bills and such.
in the example of the legal that comes over and takes the higher paid job.....that would be a person who's taken the training, and gotten qualified. in this instance, what you said is correct......if you lose your job to a legal, then it is only your fault, because qualifications are all that are being used to decide who gets that job. why? because now it's an even playing field......they have to pay taxes now too, and they too have bills now.....
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What I laugh about in this entire discourse is this....
The same folks that espouse a free market economy that rewards companies for making the most possible profit, are the same folks crying when that free market economy employs the cheapest possible labor that takes away "American" Jobs.
Hypocritical, don't you think? One value set does not equal the other. You cannot support a free market and denounce immigration (legal or illegal); they are not mutually exclusive, as proven by history.
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after all he's got bills and such.
Crap, illegals don't have bills? That is it. I am applying for Mexican citizenship tomorrow and then I am coming back illegally. Looks like I've been doing it wrong all this time lol
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Yeah, because I threw my life away when I chose to go to college and earn a degree... Because I am spending most of my free time training to be a Navy officer and don't have time for anything more than a small part-time job on the side that pays minimum wage, I should blame myself for throwing away the opportunity to try to land a 100K corporate gig...
Just because someone is working for minimum wage doesn't mean they've thrown away opportunities. Perhaps they are just trying to get their foot in the door of the industry, or they're a teen trying to earn some spending money, or someone paying their way through college?
lol, so we are saying the same thing then? An illegal cannot take your job in the Navy away, can he? So, you either don;t understand what I say or you just don;t like Mexicans. Isn't this the real issue behind all this? I am not talking about temporary minimum wage jobs. We all had one of those. Did they take yours? I am guessing no right. Now, if 20 years from now you are in the same minimum wage job and you lose it to a Mexican, don;t look for sympathy here.
As I said, all BS. They could not take your job because your employer does not want to take the risk for a few $. There are about 5 jobs they can easily take. You are smart guy. Figure out what they are and tell me if you want to do them.
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What I laugh about in this entire discourse is this....
The same folks that espouse a free market economy that rewards companies for making the most possible profit, are the same folks crying when that free market economy employs the cheapest possible labor that takes away "American" Jobs.
Hypocritical, don't you think? One value set does not equal the other. You cannot support a free market and denounce immigration (legal or illegal); they are not mutually exclusive, as proven by history.
Not at all. I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS. Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here :lol. Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread :rofl
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Not at all. I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS. Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here :lol. Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread :rofl
Bottom line, in a free market economy, either the most qualified applicant, intellectually or physically for each job, (or the cheapest labor) will win. Generally, the most qualified and cheapest will win. That's the way the system is built.
If that's an Indian from New Delhi who paid attention in the classroom and proved he can learn anything at a higher level than the American that slid through high school and college with C's... (this also segways into the ongoing American devaluation of Education, but, another thread)..... so be it. You cannot defend a stance of supporting a free market economy to denouncing immigration. It simply lacks any semblance of logic. The free market will always choose the cheapest option, because that is its' central tenant.
The major difference between the Indian and the American? American children are gifted with the innate feeling of entitlement to a 100K (or higher) plus job, by virtue of our rich society. The Indian will work his arse off to get it, in school and on-the-job, and is willing to start at the bottom to prove himself, by virtue of his "poor" society. You cannot sit on a platform of societal bias, whereas the American is "guaranteed" a job, because of his/her citizenship, but still "require" a higher salary. Ask any college senior, these days. They turn their noses up at 35-40K starting salaries. Their innate sense of worth is misguided and misconstrued by the societal cues around them.
I just recently had to laugh at a girl about to graduate with a Master's in my field. Smart young lady, but seriously out of touch. I explained she better be ready to accept a job at around 28-35K starting, if it even presented itself. She gasped like that was an insult, and proceeded to tell me she was worth 55 to 60 K starting, and wouldn't "accept" a penny less. In my field of biology, if you make 60K, you're definitely on the 25th percentile, or maybe a bit higher. Directors of internationally renowned research stations, with 20 years of publishing make just over 100K if they are lucky. But this 20 something tells me she's going to make 60 out of the box, or she's turning it down..... LMAO.
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Not at all. I am just pointing out that the whole argument about losing jobs to illegals is BS. Just trying to explain that the real jobs are lost to legals but they only worry about Mexicans here :lol. Right or or wrong is besides the point and probably a different thread :rofl
Also, in economic downturns, the society in question generally points the finger of blame at the newest members, rather than at the direct causal relationships that contributed to said downturn. This is human nature, and is historically proven.
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first....illegals aren't our newest members. second, i've never thought illegals should be allowed to work or live in the country......third....i haven't checked this out, but i got it today in email.
From a California school teacher - - -
"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at
a large southern California high school which is designated a
Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic
and income levels
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
Gardens , Huntington Park , etc.., where these students are protesting,
are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant
girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America ..
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less than 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" (potatos ) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care, etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled not only to be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
Americans, We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about"political correctness " that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know including your Congressmen and Senators.
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth ,
a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" if up to $3,200 free. He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps..
He qualifies for free (no deductible), no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills...
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they qualify for SSI.
Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare . All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense .
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills AND his.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE
WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE
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Bottom line, in a free market economy, either the most qualified applicant, intellectually or physically for each job, (or the cheapest labor) will win. Generally, the most qualified and cheapest will win. That's the way the system is built.
If that's an Indian from New Delhi who paid attention in the classroom and proved he can learn anything at a higher level than the American that slid through high school and college with C's... (this also segways into the ongoing American devaluation of Education, but, another thread)..... so be it. You cannot defend a stance of supporting a free market economy to denouncing immigration. It simply lacks any semblance of logic. The free market will always choose the cheapest option, because that is its' central tenant.
The major difference between the Indian and the American? American children are gifted with the innate feeling of entitlement to a 100K (or higher) plus job, by virtue of our rich society. The Indian will work his arse off to get it, in school and on-the-job, and is willing to start at the bottom to prove himself, by virtue of his "poor" society. You cannot sit on a platform of societal bias, whereas the American is "guaranteed" a job, because of his/her citizenship, but still "require" a higher salary. Ask any college senior, these days. They turn their noses up at 35-40K starting salaries. Their innate sense of worth is misguided and misconstrued by the societal cues around them.
I just recently had to laugh at a girl about to graduate with a Master's in my field. Smart young lady, but seriously out of touch. I explained she better be ready to accept a job at around 28-35K starting, if it even presented itself. She gasped like that was an insult, and proceeded to tell me she was worth 55 to 60 K starting, and wouldn't "accept" a penny less. In my field of biology, if you make 60K, you're definitely on the 25th percentile, or maybe a bit higher. Directors of internationally renowned research stations, with 20 years of publishing make just over 100K if they are lucky. But this 20 something tells me she's going to make 60 out of the box, or she's turning it down..... LMAO.
Damn, when did I claim all that? :rofl All I said is that they worry about the wrong people as far as jobs go. Never said it was right or wrong :lol
However, being in the IT business, when we hire consultants (with H1 visas) to replace Americans, we don't look at their school records or how hard they work. How would we know that? lol. We talk to a sales man and check out the price. In bigger companies, it also depends on who gets payed off to complete the transaction :lol There is the how things would work in theory, and how they work in practice. Theory is for the books only ;)
So in theory, illegals take jobs away. In practice, I dont want those jobs and I am glad they are here to do them.
In theory, legals (read all the bla bla bla) these guys provided for us lol. In practice, they will take our jobs legally because they are legal. But, because they are cheaper than you or I, they can get a visa instantly instead of waiting 20 years. Nice system really, provide both slave labor at the low levels and cheaper labor at the higher levels while you (the government) denounces both and claims that it will provide a solution to these problems. Meanwhile, people argue in bulletin boards as if they can change anything :lol
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you're trolling...i know ya are........... :neener:
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you're trolling...i know ya are........... :neener:
Nop, this is not the AvA thread :rofl
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lol, so we are saying the same thing then? An illegal cannot take your job in the Navy away, can he? So, you either don;t understand what I say or you just don;t like Mexicans. Isn't this the real issue behind all this? I am not talking about temporary minimum wage jobs. We all had one of those. Did they take yours? I am guessing no right. Now, if 20 years from now you are in the same minimum wage job and you lose it to a Mexican, don;t look for sympathy here.
As I said, all BS. They could not take your job because your employer does not want to take the risk for a few $. There are about 5 jobs they can easily take. You are smart guy. Figure out what they are and tell me if you want to do them.
My ONLY point against illegal immigrants has ALWAYS been that they are violating our laws by coming in here. If they follow the legal process, they can come in and work however they bloody well choose.
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Nop, this is not the AvA thread :rofl
:D
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I'd say about 10 more posts
The fact that this thread went beyond 10 is commendable :aok
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The fact that this thread went beyond 10 is commendable :aok
Thank god for guys like you. We are just talking. Really no need for people asking to lock the thread or starting the IN crap. Be part of the conversation or don't be :aok
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first....illegals aren't our newest members. second, i've never thought illegals should be allowed to work or live in the country......third....i haven't checked this out, but i got it today in email.
From a California school teacher - - -
And the best way this "educated" teacher thought to combat this problem was an opinion-laced, horribly written chain letter with bad grammar? :x
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And the best way this "educated" teacher thought to combat this problem was an opinion-laced, horribly written chain letter with bad grammar? :x
i warned ya that i didn't check anything out on it.
and we're all opinionated.
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first....illegals aren't our newest members. second, i've never thought illegals should be allowed to work or live in the country......third....i haven't checked this out, but i got it today in email.
From a California school teacher - - -
"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at
a large southern California high school which is designated a
Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic
and income levels
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
Gardens , Huntington Park , etc.., where these students are protesting,
are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant
look at the con pictures, obesity is not just for illegal aliens.
girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America ..
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
did a teacher write this letter or an administrator? how many computers does $700,000 buy? she bought 700 computers?
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less than 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" (potatos ) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.
last I checked putas does not mean potatos.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care, etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled not only to be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?
you cannot get free school lunch unless you are here legally. proof is required and its been since '81 or 82. its the federal law. as for free medical care? if it was i would gladly dump my own insurance coverage and tell everybody i am here illegally.
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
sure anybody that wants to spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration go to your nearest farm and pick fruits or vegetables for 4 bucks and hour.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
there are way more legal residents/citizens who do not have health insurance that there are illegal aliens. these is what is the real reason it is expensive. what exactly are the new exotic deseases here in the us?
Americans, We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
this is partly true. they sure as hell wont be guest workers. remember the guest workers in the 40's to 60's? they're still waiting for the wages that were held to be paid back.
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about"political correctness " that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
legal residents and citizens are having kids are a younger age. nothing new here.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know including your Congressmen and Senators.
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth ,
a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" if up to $3,200 free. He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
here is another lie. you cannot get section 8 unless you are here legally. and how in the hell can a guy making 5 or 6 bucks support 7? you smell bs? here is a dare for you cap1. your job is to find out where you can apply for section 8. dont bother you cant and havent been able for years. and the waiting list for it is like 7 years long.
He qualifies for food stamps..
nope you must be here legally to get food stams.
He qualifies for free (no deductible), no co-pay) health care.
nope you must be here legally to get health care. if it was free to illegal aliens, there would be lots of us saying we were. hell i dont want to pay7k a year for insurance if i dont have to
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
see above must be here legally and prove it.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
get rid of french and latin classes too.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills...
see the above, must be here legally
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled , they qualify for SSI.
Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare . All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense .
pretty sure lots of blind/old people cross the border. again you must be here legally to get ssi.
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
sure as hell he worries. one ticket car is impounded for driving w/o a license. why is life insurance even mentioned? oh i forgot writer run out of bs. homeowners insurance? no house, no homeowners insurance. own a home, you must have it, that simple
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
also available in German, Italian french, many oriental/middle eastern, etc
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
and how? and more important how would a teacher know this?
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills AND his.
sound about how much money i have left.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
all the graffiti is done by illegal aliens?
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE
WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE
i think the line about "you must pass this on to 10 friends, or your loved one will die in an accicent" was forggotten.
angela spent many years here and she didn't learn the biggest lesson. people will use you then they will throw you away. oh yeah and gloria allred does really have your best interests in mind :rofl.
semp
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hi guys i just got here. what did she say?
I tried to youtube her, but all I got was a bunch of video picture collages of her with lady gaga's "poker face" playing in the background.... might i say it came out nicely though :noid
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Angela Merkel said multiculturalism isnt working for germany.
We got into the discussion about how it isnt working here either.
Mexicans.
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Angela Merkel said multiculturalism isnt working for germany.
We got into the discussion about how it isnt working here either.
Mexicans.
Multiculturalism is not equal to illegal immigration. Multiculturalism occurs with legal immigration too. There is a large difference between saying multiculturalism has failed and saying there are too many illegal immigrants. Many of the 'immigrants' that Germany is complaining about are legal and have been there for 20+ years, and its their failure to be 'German' that is the issue, not that some of them may be there illegally.
I think you would be hard pressed to find Americans that would share the same sediment, I would hope that most Americans are more experienced and less frightened by multiculturalism since it has been at the very core of this country since it's inception, and before. AS for Americans, its obvious that illegal immigration is a big issue, but thats not, as I stated before multiculturalism per-say, thats illegal immigration. EVEN people who have stated that they are against illegal immigration have also stated they have nothing against legal immigrants. If your implying that the illegal immigration debate is a veil over the fact that some people don't like particular ethnic groups, that may be true, but I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt (although maybe I shouldn't be).
Put it this way....
Do you like having the option of eating Mexican/Chinese/Japanese/Indian food in your town/state, etc...? In a very simplistic form, thats a mild form of Multiculturalism, the mixing of cultures, or their food (to some extent).
What Merkel is saying is "We don't like other cultures being present in our society (because we think we are the best, etc...)". Ironically, the mixing of new cultures in a society only means that host society is changing and often this does not result in the host society becoming that of the immigrants but rather some fusion that is often more vibrant, more dynamic and more able to adapt.
History has shown us that the most successful civilizations are the ones who are able to best adapt to change, not the most rigid or inflexible.
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hi guys i just got here. what did she say?
I tried to youtube her, but all I got was a bunch of video picture collages of her with lady gaga's "poker face" playing in the background.... might i say it came out nicely though :noid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-UJO4ot3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-UJO4ot3M)
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Multiculturalism is not equal to illegal immigration. Multiculturalism occurs with legal immigration too. There is a large difference between saying multiculturalism has failed and saying there are too many illegal immigrants. Many of the 'immigrants' that Germany is complaining about are legal and have been there for 20+ years, and its their failure to be 'German' that is the issue, not that some of them may be there illegally.i don't think it's their failure to be "german" that she's complaining about, but rather their refusal to assimilate into their culture. that doesn't mean you have to be "german". it simply means that when you're in public, you don't walk into a shop, and expect them to understand your native tongue...you learn theirs. you don't expect them to accept you covering your face(for yoru religion)...if that's what you want, then go somewhere where that is the normal.
I think you would be hard pressed to find Americans that would share the same sediment, I would hope that most Americans are more experienced and less frightened by multiculturalism since it has been at the very core of this country since it's inception, and before. AS for Americans, its obvious that illegal immigration is a big issue, but thats not, as I stated before multiculturalism per-say, thats illegal immigration. EVEN people who have stated that they are against illegal immigration have also stated they have nothing against legal immigrants. If your implying that the illegal immigration debate is a veil over the fact that some people don't like particular ethnic groups, that may be true, but I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt (although maybe I shouldn't be).as previously stated, i've no problem with immigrants. they need to assimilate into our culture. they need to not expect us to train our cops in 5 languages, put up signs in 5 languages, or even store clerks knowing their language. they're free to do their own thing in their own home.
Put it this way....
Do you like having the option of eating Mexican/Chinese/Japanese/Indian food in your town/state, etc...? In a very simplistic form, thats a mild form of Multiculturalism, the mixing of cultures, or their food (to some extent).
What Merkel is saying is "We don't like other cultures being present in our society (because we think we are the best, etc...)". Ironically, the mixing of new cultures in a society only means that host society is changing and often this does not result in the host society becoming that of the immigrants but rather some fusion that is often more vibrant, more dynamic and more able to adapt.
or could she be saying it's time for the immigrants to stop expecting them to "cater" to their ways?
History has shown us that the most successful civilizations are the ones who are able to best adapt to change, not the most rigid or inflexible.
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Angela Merkel said multiculturalism isnt working for germany.
We got into the discussion about how it isnt working here either.
Mexicans.
:rofl Funny how they are hiding behind the 'legal' and 'illegal' words. Just say only blond hair and blue eyes are allowed in this country. At list I will respect your honesty :lol
FYI, I would think the American Indians would consider all of us illegal immigrants. Time to go? :rofl
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:rofl Funny how they are hiding behind the 'legal' and 'illegal' words. Just say only blond hair and blue eyes are allowed in this country. At list I will respect your honesty :lol
FYI, I would think the American Indians would consider all of us illegal immigrants. Time to go? :rofl
:devil
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/SB1070_19e62.jpg)
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I heard Angela Merkel likes German sausage :old:
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:devil
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/SB1070_19e62.jpg)
Bahahha, best post in this thread lol
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:rofl Funny how they are hiding behind the 'legal' and 'illegal' words. Just say only blond hair and blue eyes are allowed in this country. At list I will respect your honesty :lol
FYI, I would think the American Indians would consider all of us illegal immigrants. Time to go? :rofl
I'm not arguing any more in this thread, I was just informing our friend what was going on.
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:rofl Funny how they are hiding behind the 'legal' and 'illegal' words. Just say only blond hair and blue eyes are allowed in this country. At list I will respect your honesty :lol
FYI, I would think the American Indians would consider all of us illegal immigrants. Time to go? :rofl
Stop hiding behind color and stereotypes. Just say the whole Golly-geened world should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want without any possible restriction, and I might not think so little of your argument.
No, I would still think you're being foolish.
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Stop hiding behind color and stereotypes. Just say the whole Golly-geened world should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want without any possible restriction, and I might not think so little of your argument.
No, I would still think you're being foolish.
bolded.
would you believe i know at least 3 people that believe this? they also believe that all of our militarys should be disbanded, along with all police forces..........pretty scary....
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bolded.
would you believe i know at least 3 people that believe this? they also believe that all of our militarys should be disbanded, along with all police forces..........pretty scary....
ROFL. Seems like Darwin's theory is starting to hold less water, since these dolts somehow continue to procreate...
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bolded.
would you believe i know at least 3 people that believe this? they also believe that all of our militarys should be disbanded, along with all police forces..........pretty scary....
It's just a discussion cap, which means we exchange ideas, you say your bs, i reply with my bs.
there's also people that believe there was a shooter in the grassy knoll, the landing on the moon was fake, so just because their ideas are different isnt scary. That's why we are Americans, we love to disagree.
semp
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It's just a discussion cap, which means we exchange ideas, you say your bs, i reply with my bs.
there's also people that believe there was a shooter in the grassy knoll, the landing on the moon was fake, so just because their ideas are different isnt scary. That's why we are Americans, we love to disagree.
semp
i know. i've been enjoying this, and am surprised...and very glad...that no one has gotten out of hand to the point of getting this thread closed.
why i mentioned that i was scared about my acquaintenance's attitude about the military.....one of them was actually bordering on violence as i tried to explain to him why they're necessary, and that they train hoping they never have to use their training, etc....the dude was nearly bursting veins in his neck and forehead......
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i know. i've been enjoying this, and am surprised...and very glad...that no one has gotten out of hand to the point of getting this thread closed.
why i mentioned that i was scared about my acquaintenance's attitude about the military.....one of them was actually bordering on violence as i tried to explain to him why they're necessary, and that they train hoping they never have to use their training, etc....the dude was nearly bursting veins in his neck and forehead......
I'll let you borrow my pointy stick to beat your friend over the head with a couple times
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It's just a discussion cap, which means we exchange ideas, you say your bs, i reply with my bs.
there's also people that believe there was a shooter in the grassy knoll, the landing on the moon was fake, so just because their ideas are different isnt scary. That's why we are Americans, we love to disagree.
semp
But to be a good American, you have to agree with these guys lol. Even though the only thing I ever disagreed on was the "WHY" they cross illegally lol. Then again, if they had an argument, they would not resort to name calling or quoting the name calling. :aok
Pack your bags. Fair is fair. We are all here illegally :rofl Just because no one is left to complain it does not make it right does it?
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or could she be saying it's time for the immigrants to stop expecting them to "cater" to their ways?
Cap,
Multiculturism doesn't mean you have to 'cater to their' ways, it just means you have to be accepting of their differences. There is nothing forcing you or any other individual to behave like them. I don't believe the 'Turkish' immigrants expect the other Germans to start speaking Turkish, I believe its more that the the other Germans are frustrated because the Turkish people haven't shedded their own customs.
Having been to many other countries, I can tell you that people will treat you differently if you have an accent, etc.. This among other things, encourages immigrants to band together, and slows the 'integration' process. To have a multicultural society, the host society has to be open to change was well as the guest society, its not a one-way street. I don't sense that Europe is interested in adapting. When one side is uninterested in adapting, the other side follows suit, and you have two cultures failing to assimilate into one.
To see this, you can look at our own history, for example, New York used to have large neighborhoods that were predominantly of one ethnic group such as Irish or Italian. At that point in time, I'm sure some felt that they would never integrate, but sure enough, over time and several generations, integration has occurred. Go back to the 1860s, and ask someone in the US what pasta is out side of a ethnic neighborhood, and I bet they wouldn't know.
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But to be a good American, you have to agree with these guys lol. Even though the only thing I ever disagreed on was the "WHY" they cross illegally lol. Then again, if they had an argument, they would not resort to name calling or quoting the name calling. :aok
Pack your bags. Fair is fair. We are all here illegally :rofl Just because no one is left to complain it does not make it right does it?
not exactly.
we came in and took it from them. some they gave us(i think) the rest we took by force.
if mexicans wanna come here and try to force the us military out.............well....good luck with that. :devil
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not exactly.
we came in and took it from them. some they gave us(i think) the rest we took by force.
if mexicans wanna come here and try to force the us military out.............well....good luck with that. :devil
In a quantitative sense, they've still having their revenge.... they taught us about tobacco.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-UJO4ot3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-UJO4ot3M)
thanks tupac an von mesa, all caught up now :aok
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In a quantitative sense, they've still having their revenge, they've (Native Americans) killed more of us then we have ever killed them.... they taught us about tobacco.
Ummm yeeaaaaaah, and we taught them how to distill corn into whiskey. I think we own the record for killing more of them, per capita....not a record I'd like to brag about mind you.
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Ummm yeeaaaaaah, and we taught them how to distill corn into whiskey. I think we own the record for killing more of them, per capita....not a record I'd like to brag about mind you.
didn't think, of that, agreed, neither are records to brag about.
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Beat me to it Rip. Good to see you bro! :rock
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Ummm yeeaaaaaah, and we taught them how to distill corn into whiskey. I think we own the record for killing more of them, per capita....not a record I'd like to brag about mind you.
But they also gave us cocaine, little frackers keep trying to one up us.
ack-ack
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We gave them guns and training now the bastages have their own cartel too. But then again we americans love drugs, how do we fix that?
Semp
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The good old "Columbian exchange." The Indians really lost out but we can thank them for syphilis.
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not exactly.
we came in and took it from them. some they gave us(i think) the rest we took by force.
if mexicans wanna come here and try to force the us military out.............well....good luck with that. :devil
Ahhh, so stealing and killing is kind of funny when it is for our gain ehh? I guess we must have had a paper that said it was legal to do so? :lol
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not exactly.
we came in and took it from them. some they gave us(i think) the rest we took by force.
if mexicans wanna come here and try to force the us military out.............well....good luck with that. :devil
I know you are just kidding, but look at how much of the U.S. population is hispanic not to mention also in the military. I figured If there ever was such a movement it would be more like pulling the rug out from under your feet rather than an attempt to bluntly overthrow the government. Imagine If 80% of the U.S. was hispanic, all that would seperate us from mexico would be to change some laws.
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Ahhh, so stealing and killing is kind of funny when it is for our gain ehh? I guess we must have had a paper that said it was legal to do so? :lol
no it's not honestly, and i probably shouldn't have used that smiley......