Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Onyx13 on January 20, 2011, 01:00:44 PM
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Thanks for the input.
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do yourself a HUGE favor sir. DON'T LOOK AT SCORE. Play the game to have fun everything else will fall into place
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Depends on how you view it. The LW arena average on fighter mode is K/D 0.8... but less than 30% of all players do have K/D 1.0 or better. But of course, this includes all the 2-weekers.
do yourself a HUGE favor sir. DON'T LOOK AT SCORE. Play the game to have fun everything else will fall into place
What if you have fun by looking at the score?
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Anyone who has a good score wears high heel shoes :old:
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Depends on how you view it. The LW arena average on fighter mode is K/D 0.8... but less than 30% of all players do have K/D 1.0 or better. But of course, this includes all the 2-weekers.
What if you have fun by looking at the score?
Lusche what is 50-th percentile number of fighter hours flown in a tour? Have you ever run the stats for just the players in the 50-100% percentile? or even breaking it up by percentile. I fly a lot. Almost everyday for 2-4 hours a day. I see about the same 400-500 names over and over again. But there are 4-5 thousand subcribers. So If I see I'm ranked 460 nfighter score, I'm thinking that probably isn't very good, becasue the real competitive set is probably only 500-700 people who fly a lot. Do you have a histogram of the hours flown by player? I'm going to guess it's very right shifted. Do you think it would add clarity to run the stats only on the right half of the curve?
:salute
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do yourself a HUGE favor sir. DON'T LOOK AT SCORE. Play the game to have fun everything else will fall into place
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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what he said.
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do yourself a HUGE favor sir. DON'T LOOK AT SCORE. Play the game to have fun everything else will fall into place
best advice right there
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Lusche what is 50-th percentile number of fighter hours flown in a tour? Have you ever run the stats for just the players in the 50-100% percentile? or even breaking it up by percentile.
I have done a few analysis based on flight time, # of sorties and so on. But this has relatively little impact on the total numbers, because if you only take the top 50% in time flown, you will get rid of a lot of 2-weekers, but also on a lot of "top scores" that happen to fly most of their sorties in attack mode.
Which again shows that score itself only tells so much.... or little ;)
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Haven't done much flying this tour, but start of tour I had about 18 kills to 2 deaths (by enemy fighters).
Now I tend to bail out when the fight is stale or if a squadie find another fight in another area, so that drastically dropped my K/D ratio. I don't change scoring mode ever (bomber, attack, fighter) so upping at capped fields doesn't help either, so my K/D ratio is very low. If I wanted to keep it high, I could easily do so. But that is not fun to me so I do not worry about it.
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Score can be easily manipulated to give a higher than "normal" rating. Suppose everything about the way you fly is considered your "normal". The plane choice, SA, risk-taking, etc. Now, limit your fighter sorties to instances with a short trip and high propability of success (like a vulch party off a CV). The ack is down and there are a few brave pilots trying to save the town against superior numbers. You pick a F4U-1C and make the short trip to hover over the enemy field. In no time at all, you've bagged a bunch of sitting ducks with 4 20mm cannons. Your landing is welcomed by a cacophony of WTFG!!!s on your clinic of aerial mastery. Now your Kills, K/D, K/T, and Hit% are all much higher than your established "normal". Do this a bunch of times and your score will pole vault way up there without your flying improving one iota.
Don't worry about other pilot scores as you don't know how they fly. Hook up with a trainer and they will help you improve.
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I can understand your concern about asking about KD ratio. Some clowns out there will click on you to measure you up after a fight and then use your score as a tool to mock you or inflate their own egos. The second I learned there was a scoring system in this game it changed the way I fly. In many ways I wished I never had. Now, it is just a nice personal challenge to get a high KD, but sometimes that comes with a cost. I got to 17 to 1 during one tour (low compared to some), but had zero fun in the process. Folks will accuse you of running away from a fight constantly. In reality you may just be seeking to get back into the fight on better terms for your own survivability. This is more realistic in a simulator sense, but still open for mockery on 200. So, nothing in this world is free.
If you spend time on the BBs picking the hints up, spend time in the DA with good sticks, hell just pick a plane and stick with it until you are comfortable fighting 2 to 3 guys, your KD will start to go up without you even noticing it. Frankly I wish people would try to have higher KDs because some are apt to HO everything in sight until they run out of ammo or die. Then they up and repeat. The "Xbox" guys.
:salute
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Thanks for the input.
Hey, that's better than my .47 K to D :furious :furious
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The only stat I really care about is my hit percentage. I can tell if something is off somewhere if it starts to drop. If I'm shooting good, then I'm killing well, and everything else falls into place. I don't mind fighting several guys, only to get killed without getting one of them. My k/d doesn't really effect me one way or the other. I do really really hate missing kill shots on a bad guy and then ending up getting killed by him. I'll get killed over and over and not care, but I sure hate losing a fight due to gunnery or rubber bullets that I really should have won. Hit percentage is where it's all at for me.
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I use the score to judge myself. Not even to judge myself against others. The hit % can tell me if my aim is approving/declining etc.
I think the score is a valuable tool if you do not focus on how to improve your score but rather improve your skill and see what that does to your score.
I fly more as a sim than a game. I abhorr a wasted aircraft so I don't auger or bail to get to another fight. Frankly I have never bailed from any aircraft and never will. You shoot my wings off, you get to see me fall to the earth and crash.
I try to fly home after every sortie, cripple aircraft, crippled pilot, you name it, I am going to die trying to rtb. I am never in a hurry to get to the fight or get the next kill.
The guys that say "score means nothing", well maybe, but I bet they know what their score is.
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I up at vulched fields so my score is jacked up
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The guys that say "score means nothing", well maybe, but I bet they know what their score is.
I say score is garbage and only encourages the "xbox" style type of playing and 99% of the time im ranked top 100 so there goes that theory.
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The guys that say "score means nothing", well maybe, but I bet they know what their score is.
Score means nothing because its too easy to 'game' at the expence of a good gaming env.
If we all flew me262s, p51s or 190d9s, and only fought when we had an overwhelming adv, then we could have very high scores, but the game would be ruined and it would no longer be fun, because combat would be avoided, and its the adrenalin rush from the struggle, the fight that brings most of us to the game, not the I killed 200 guys with out getting killed because I dove in from 20k, took the pick and ran home (you would get bored of this fast too).
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I say score is garbage and only encourages the "xbox" style type of playing and 99% of the time im ranked top 100 so there goes that theory.
LOL, so you do know your own score that means nothing, exactly as I said, thank you.
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The only thing I care anything about is my K/D. To me its like your golf score while your playing the game its not for ego but just something to work towards.
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LOL, so you do know your own score that means nothing, exactly as I said, thank you.
still means nothing though cause anybody will tell you I am the worst player in the game.
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The only thing I care anything about is my K/D. To me its like your golf score while your playing the game its not for ego but just something to work towards.
same here, as opposed to making it rise by avoiding fighting, I try to raise it by finding fights and learning as much as I can
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The only stat I really care about is my hit percentage. I can tell if something is off somewhere if it starts to drop. If I'm shooting good, then I'm killing well, and everything else falls into place. I don't mind fighting several guys, only to get killed without getting one of them. My k/d doesn't really effect me one way or the other. I do really really hate missing kill shots on a bad guy and then ending up getting killed by him. I'll get killed over and over and not care, but I sure hate losing a fight due to gunnery or rubber bullets that I really should have won. Hit percentage is where it's all at for me.
I won't speak to the rubber bullets conspiracy theories out there, but I am with Madda on this. Hit percentage is all I follow. It gives me a pretty good read on whether I am actually hitting the side of the barn so to speak. K/D can be so easily manipulated by player ingame behaviors that it does not give you a proper read as to how you stack up against other AH players. So my advice is get close, then get closer, then open fire when you can read the enemy con's instrument panel!
:salute
Way
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Score means nothing because its too easy to 'game' at the expence of a good gaming env.
If we all flew me262s, p51s or 190d9s, and only fought when we had an overwhelming adv, then we could have very high scores, but the game would be ruined and it would no longer be fun, because combat would be avoided, and its the adrenalin rush from the struggle, the fight that brings most of us to the game, not the I killed 200 guys with out getting killed because I dove in from 20k, took the pick and ran home (you would get bored of this fast too).
It is a common misconception that a good score is so easy to attain that you 'could if you wanted to.' Flying extremely safe, while helping Kill/Death, hurts Kill/Time so dramatically (depending on how 'safe' you fly) that you won't be in a top spot. Trust me, achieveing a high rank takes alot more than most give it credit for.
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I wish I was good. :cry
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Check it out yourself.......... :salute
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/planes.php
What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Thanks for the input.
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A 1:1 KDR is good, but better is that you can track and note an improvement in your KDR score over the time you've been playing. :aok We can give you averages and general stats, especialy Lusche, he's really good with that. But I think you're already doing the right thing, and that is tracking yourself and comparing your own stats to your own stats. Set goals and stuff for yourself, ya know like a 1.2 KDR this tour, 1.5 the next, and maybe finaly go for a 2:1 KDR.
That is what is with most of the attitude you get here amongst the score conversations in this game. Scoreing as a whole, comparing one player to another, is pretty easily manipulated and a horrible tool to really guage ones abilities over anothers in this game. Scoreing however as a personal stat tracker is priceless in this game, it allows you to track the hard results of your previous sorties and compare those whith other stats of yours to see where you're doing exceptionaly and where you might be falling behind.
Score means nothing because its too easy to 'game' at the expence of a good gaming env.
If we all flew me262s, p51s or 190d9s, and only fought when we had an overwhelming adv, then we could have very high scores, but the game would be ruined and it would no longer be fun, because combat would be avoided, and its the adrenalin rush from the struggle, the fight that brings most of us to the game, not the I killed 200 guys with out getting killed because I dove in from 20k, took the pick and ran home (you would get bored of this fast too).
This day has been forever marked for me, Doras are now considered score-wh!@#ish! :aok :D
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Thanks for the input.
Well 100:1 is a good number. 200:1 is even better tho. ;)
Seriously, it depends a lot on how you are flying. You may fly with different goals in different tours. You should have different K/D expectations accordingly. Some tours you may intentionally throw yourself into a lot of nutty situations just to develop your furball SA and get lots of trigger time per flight hour. More than likely your K/D is going to suffer, but that’s OK given what you were intending.
Sometimes you want to spend a tour trying to fly to live. Yes, I think you should try this kind of flying too. It requires a different kind of SA and develops your instincts on when to risk, and when to decline engagement. It teaches you a different kind of judgement. When to press the attack; and when to prudently extend. Those are important skills too, especially if you start playing one life events. In events teams have limited resources and you’re not doing your team any favors getting yourself killed stupidly. When flying this way, you should be trying to maximize your K/D numbers. If you aren’t doing any better than when you were furballin, then, well, you need to work on that. ;)
Both kinds of flying are important tools that teach you different things. You will, of course, run into various AH Taliban types you tell you must ONLY fly one way or the other and anything else makes you an Infidel. If they want to squat in their dank caves and issue game-play fatwa’s, then that’s their prerogative.
My advice would be not be overly swayed by them and learn to dabble in both types of flying. Each has something to teach you. I think you get more enjoyment out of the game overall.
If you’re flying-to-live, any tour you are able to maintain greater than 1:1, you are doing fine.
All of the above is only my opinion of course.
Regards,
Wab
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I wish I was good. :cry
Maybe one day...
:bolt:
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Depends on what you fly, how you fly and how often you fly.
Basically it can only tell you so much. I wouldn't worry about it. You'll know if you are having a good night or a bad night regardless :)
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I won't speak to the rubber bullets conspiracy theories out there, but I am with Madda on this. Hit percentage is all I follow. It gives me a pretty good read on whether I am actually hitting the side of the barn so to speak.
Way
Same here, to me the other stats are rather useless for me to gauge whether or not I'm improving. By looking at my hit percentage these last few tours compared to the tours prior to the update that changed the head position views and gunsight, I saw a significant drop of at least 4-5% after the update. After I figured out the cause (due to my old gunsight) and started to use a gunsight that Bustr had made for me, my hit percentage as steadily improved and now I'm at around 9%, just 2-3% shy of what my average used to be prior to the update. I just have to work on my long range shots (shots beyond 600yds) now.
ack-ack
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It is a common misconception that a good score is so easy to attain that you 'could if you wanted to.' Flying extremely safe, while helping Kill/Death, hurts Kill/Time so dramatically (depending on how 'safe' you fly) that you won't be in a top spot. Trust me, achieveing a high rank takes alot more than most give it credit for.
TJ, the thread is specifically on K/D... not score in general. Either way, I can easily bump my score by only fighting in situations where I'm not out numbered, and I can have a score below 100, but I choose not to, because its more exciting to struggle. If you have good aim, you can rake in kills at a furball when your side has a numerical adv. I have had numerous fights where I've pulled in 7-10+ kills in p51D or 5~7 kills in a k4, where if I was totally out numbered, I'd be lucky to pull in 3 and make it back.
This day has been forever marked for me, Doras are now considered score-wh!@#ish! :aok :D
no ride is 'dweeby', its how the pilot chooses to fly. :aok
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It is a common misconception that a good score is so easy to attain that you 'could if you wanted to.' Flying extremely safe, while helping Kill/Death, hurts Kill/Time so dramatically (depending on how 'safe' you fly) that you won't be in a top spot. Trust me, achieveing a high rank takes alot more than most give it credit for.
Really? Ive seen Hoagi in the top 10 fighter scores........we both know hes not a "good" stick...has good SA and flys easy mode rides
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Same here, to me the other stats are rather useless for me to gauge whether or not I'm improving. By looking at my hit percentage these last few tours compared to the tours prior to the update that changed the head position views and gunsight, I saw a significant drop of at least 4-5% after the update. After I figured out the cause (due to my old gunsight) and started to use a gunsight that Bustr had made for me, my hit percentage as steadily improved and now I'm at around 9%, just 2-3% shy of what my average used to be prior to the update. I just have to work on my long range shots (shots beyond 600yds) now.
ack-ack
Totally agree!
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If I had to bet between the two of you....... I doubt my money would go on the Pig. Just sayin..... :eek:
Really? Ive seen Hoagi in the top 10 fighter scores........we both know hes not a "good" stick...has good SA and flys easy mode rides
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If I had to bet between the two of you....... I doubt my money would go on the Pig. Just sayin..... :eek:
I do think Hoagi would be in for a beating Sir. I would say I am about 50/50 win loss with Hoagi myself, and I suck. Junky would eat him alive. :aok
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What if you have fun by looking at the score?
It'll turn you into a newt..... Well, that's what I heard anyway. :neener:
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It'll turn you into a newt..... Well, that's what I heard anyway. :neener:
I heard he got better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g)
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Don't kid yourself..... You ain't bad at all. :salute
I do think Hoagi would be in for a beating Sir. I would say I am about 50/50 win loss with Hoagi myself, and I suck. Junky would eat him alive. :aok
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If I had to bet between the two of you....... I doubt my money would go on the Pig. Just sayin..... :eek:
:rofl :rofl :rofl Don't make me laugh!!!!
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I do think Hoagi would be in for a beating Sir. I would say I am about 50/50 win loss with Hoagi myself, and I suck. Junky would eat him alive. :aok
im 0/100 losing to everyone. My suck has reached a new level :cry
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no ride is 'dweeby', its how the pilot chooses to fly. :aok
And how does this help Babalon? :D
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio.
K/D > 1 starts to get good. It means that you moved to being more predator than pray.
On the other hand, if your K/D>4 it just means that you are not really fighting. To really have fun instead of just stroking one's E-peen (iPeen for Apple users), one must balance the risks he is taking with his success rate. If one is so good that he can win any encounter 9 out of 10 time, he needs to find harder encounters. Some of the best players in AH have a good but unimpressive K/D between 2-4.
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Any K/D above 1 is a good ratio. That means you have more success than fail, and thats basically a good feeling. Above 1, everything depends on your style, and on what is fun for you. For an example, vDALLAS. He always flies doras, comes in high, picks and pulls up as high as he can, and has a K/D of 2. I have the same K/D ratio flying the g-6s low and without SA. And Krupinsky or Pervert has about the same K/D altough they beat me in 1v1 7 of 10 times.
So dont care about the score, it shows nothing. Just have fun!
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Score means nothing because its too easy to 'game' at the expence of a good gaming env.
If we all flew me262s, p51s or 190d9s, and only fought when we had an overwhelming adv, then we could have very high scores, but the game would be ruined and it would no longer be fun, because combat would be avoided, and its the adrenalin rush from the struggle, the fight that brings most of us to the game, not the I killed 200 guys with out getting killed because I dove in from 20k, took the pick and ran home (you would get bored of this fast too).
you add my plane in and theres quite a few others you should also :noid
Score is too easily manipulated. play to have fun. Personally, i play for the challenge and the kills. I love slaughtering a good 3-5 and rtbing :aok
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so since I have the most kills out of anyone in the D-9, does that mean im the Biggest D-9 picktard in the game :uhoh ?
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K/D > 1 starts to get good. It means that you moved to being more predator than pray.
On the other hand, if your K/D>4 it just means that you are not really fighting. To really have fun instead of just stroking one's E-peen (iPeen for Apple users), one must balance the risks he is taking with his success rate. If one is so good that he can win any encounter 9 out of 10 time, he needs to find harder encounters. Some of the best players in AH have a good but unimpressive K/D between 2-4.
I have a KD >4 does that mean I dont really fight? :headscratch:
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I can tell if something is off somewhere if it starts to drop. If I'm shooting good, then I'm killing well, and everything else falls into place. I don't mind fighting several guys, only to get killed without getting one of them. My k/d doesn't really effect me one way or the other. I do really really hate missing kill shots on a bad guy and then ending up getting killed by him. I'll get killed over and over and not care, but I sure hate losing a fight due to gunnery or rubber bullets that I really should have won.
QFT. Nothing is more frustrating then loosing fights you know you should have won but for missed shots. Some nights I seem to hit everything I aim at. Others I can take the exact same shot at the exact same angle in the exact same situation and in ways where you shouldnt be able to miss if you wanted to. And nothing happens.
To chime in on the KD ratio
Alot depends on what type of flights you fly. If all you do is fly with the horde, Or will only engage when you have superior numbers advantage. Or any other kind of advantage. And avoid the afore mentioned circumstances where you dont have the clear advantage. If you never help in taking down ack instead letting others do it for you. Then you should, by almost default have a higher K/D ratio. Because from the get. the deck is stacked in your favor
If you up and are willing to fight against anything that comes along. regardless of circumstances, fly into the horde,attack superior numbers, Defend against the horde,Or just defend a base against superior numbers, up from capped bases, Help in taking down field ack. Or fly the types of flights that usually end with 4,5,and 6+ people chasing after you. (Like I often end up LOL) Your K/D ratio will almost by default be lower/ed because the probability of survival is less.
Personally I usually look for the fairly even fight. darbar wise. One where if there is an advantage one way or the other it isnt dramatic. then I'll tend to stay in an area until it becomes ridiculous one way or the other. some nights I do well. others...not so much.
The high ranking stats are more often then not are done by manipulation and serve as no real indicator as to how well your doing.
Are you having fun? I fthe answer is yes. then your doing well.
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I like to try and keep my K/D over 1.20, as any lower and I personally don't feel like i'm helping out the team if i'm lower than that currnet personal target of mine.
Last tour (131) I was hovering 1.4 to 1.6, ending on 1.67 which made me feel pretty successful in helping out my team.
The tour (130) before that I ended on 1.14, just below my target shooting better but getting a worse K/D. This tour (132) i'm hovering around 1.2-1.4 currently say on 1.3 with the lowest hit percentage of them all. It's all swings and roundabouts, it's what you fly and how you fly. I fly by the seat of my pants so my K/D is all over the place anyway :)
I'm also one of the pilots out there that doesn't stick to one aircraft, (I'll fly nearly 20 if not more different aircraft a tour) I fly in defence and attack, a group or roaming the sky alone, objective missions or random fighter sweeps.
Sampling everything the game has to offer while aiming at a target for K/D will keep things fresh and challenging for me. When you consider some people here have been playing for 10 years or more if you get yourself an even K/D your doing well. In the first 6 months i played AHII in 2008 my K/D never got more than 0.40, keep plugging away and keep raising the bar a little each time. I promise tracking your score won't turn you into a newt as Tarstar says. :D
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like many said, its easily manipulated, just fly to have fun, now if all you do is pick and "fight" from an advantage, and wont engage unless you have an advantage....well be prepared to be called a dweeb or one of the many other insults that goes with it.......if all you do is Fight any circumstance well be prepared to have people tell you you suk because your "score" suks lol one thing ya gotta do is not worry about what anyone else says on how you must fly, fly to have fun....what makes it fun for you? me personely I love the fight, I love killing red guys when I am out numberd, that really PO the other guy:-) this obviously leads to a low K/D ie not good, but without looking I think I average around the 1.5/2 to 1, I think I average around 7/9 K/H with a hit % of around 6%, I DO NOT judge someone's ability by score, I judge them on how they fight me, and weather or not they are easy to kill, or make me work my butt off. Just have fun:-)
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Judge Smails: Ty, what did you shoot today?
Ty Webb: Oh, Judge, I don't keep score.
Judge Smails: Then how do you measure yourself with other golfers?
Ty Webb: By height
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios. Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
Well, I'm one of the guys with a fairly high score. You can think whatever you want but the truth is, that's how I enjoy playing. I have heard how boring this will become and then I will quit, WRONG! I have been playing for 15 years through 3 different games and I still love it.
I have been here for 13 months now and have a fighter K/D of 25/1 in total. I love the SA, gunnery and ACM required to achive this.
Flame away.....................
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios. Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
Well, I'm one of the guys with a fairly high score. You can think whatever you want but the truth is, that's how I enjoy playing. I have heard how boring this will become and then I will quit, WRONG! I have been playing for 15 years through 3 different games and I still love it.
I have been here for 13 months now and have a fighter K/D of 25/1 in total. I love the SA, gunnery and ACM required to achive this.
Flame away.....................
Don't think they'll flame ya. The kill death just means nothing between players. For one's self it may be a measure of how they are doing if they are trying to achieve a number. Between folks it means little as many good fighters just bail after a fight if they are needed elsewhere. They'll also wade in where other's dare. The score system is good for comparing yourself to yourself, not to others.
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios.
They are?
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Zoney~its all good, like I said fly the way you enjoy. it does take a certain skill to fly the way you must fly, only engageing when you know you can win, and knowing how to place your rounds to hit a target on the high speed pass......but that dont mean your "good" or a top tier stick, thats for sure, just "good" at picking and running...err I mean extending. By all means fly your way and have fun :-)
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Don't think they'll flame ya. The kill death just means nothing between players. For one's self it may be a measure of how they are doing if they are trying to achieve a number. Between folks it means little as many good fighters just bail after a fight if they are needed elsewhere. They'll also wade in where other's dare. The score system is good for comparing yourself to yourself, not to others.
There ya go. word for word
I look at scores purely as a source of amusement. K/D ratios dont impress me in the slightest. Nor do ranks. As neither is a decent indicator as to how good a player is.
I've walloped high ranking players and been whooped on by players who's rank has been over 1,000. likewise with the K/D ratios and have found that many with poor scores in each are underrated and many with great scores in each are over rated. regardles of how "our" fight turned out. Some I've killed I've found are outright posers leading me to wonder how they ever got that score/rank to begin with.
Now I lay no claims of being one of the best. There are certainly better players them me. I consider myself decent and pretty good at what I do. And when Im on, Im on. when I'm off Im usually wayyy off.
Against really good players I can usually hold my own. But, I've also been smeared by noobs. Like I said. when Im off Im wayy off.
A better indicator for me is after you've scored a kill. How many suddenly go out of their way to chase you down specific, and how many and how long it takes before someone actually brings you down.
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DREDIOCK~very good post.
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Score can be easily manipulated to give a higher than "normal" rating. Suppose everything about the way you fly is considered your "normal". The plane choice, SA, risk-taking, etc. Now, limit your fighter sorties to instances with a short trip and high propability of success (like a vulch party off a CV). The ack is down and there are a few brave pilots trying to save the town against superior numbers. You pick a F4U-1C and make the short trip to hover over the enemy field. In no time at all, you've bagged a bunch of sitting ducks with 4 20mm cannons. Your landing is welcomed by a cacophony of WTFG!!!s on your clinic of aerial mastery. Now your Kills, K/D, K/T, and Hit% are all much higher than your established "normal". Do this a bunch of times and your score will pole vault way up there without your flying improving one iota.
Don't worry about other pilot scores as you don't know how they fly. Hook up with a trainer and they will help you improve.
So true, so true.............
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so since I have the most kills out of anyone in the D-9, does that mean im the Biggest D-9 picktard in the game :uhoh ?
probably :neener:
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios. Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
Well, I'm one of the guys with a fairly high score. You can think whatever you want but the truth is, that's how I enjoy playing. I have heard how boring this will become and then I will quit, WRONG! I have been playing for 15 years through 3 different games and I still love it.
I have been here for 13 months now and have a fighter K/D of 25/1 in total. I love the SA, gunnery and ACM required to achive this.
Flame away.....................
No flame. It's your dime. As many have said, it only says so much. It doesn't tell you how you match up 1 v 1 against the good sticks in the game. I don't know what you fly, but it sounds fairly clear how you fly. More power to ya. My K/D hovers around 1 on a good tour. But I'm guessing I'd give you a decen fight if we ran into each other 1 v 1. I'm guessing flying a low 38G into a crowd of red isn't what you do though :)
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Don't think they'll flame ya. The kill death just means nothing between players. For one's self it may be a measure of how they are doing if they are trying to achieve a number. Between folks it means little as many good fighters just bail after a fight if they are needed elsewhere. They'll also wade in where other's dare. The score system is good for comparing yourself to yourself, not to others.
+1
IENA
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Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
Hello Zoney,
First no flame here Sir. Let me be the first to say that it is cool that you choose to maintain a high K/D in fighter mode. No issues with it. All I said was that for me the hit percentage means more, because the K/D can be upped just by scoring your plane each time correctly and staying out of situations where you have a high percentage chance of dieing. This is fact. So as a measure of pilot skill for something other than score it is absolutely useless.
Let me ask you a few questions:
Can you pick any other pilot in this thread and tell me that you can take them 25 times for every time you are killed by them?
Can you pick any other squadron represented in this thread and tell me that you and your squadron can kill 25 of them for everyone of your squad's losses?
I do not believe you can. I am not slamming you, just trying to drive home the point that K/D is not a good reference as to how a pilot in this game compares to other pilots. Rather it is a measure of your ability to perform scoring functions in the game.
:salute
Way
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If score is so easily manipulated, tell me exactly how you would manipulate it to increase your fighter rank.
HiTech
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If score is so easily manipulated, tell me exactly how you would manipulate it to increase your fighter rank.
HiTech
This thread is about K/D. so if you want a high K/D do the following...
1) Look at the map, find a fight where your side has a large numerical advantage.
2) Fly there, and when fighting, keep you 'e' up and attack planes who are already engaged with others.
3) Don't turn more than 90 degrees, keep you speed, climb out, and repeat.
---or----
1) Spend all day in attack mode, then wait for a vulch to occur at an red guys field
2) Then switch to fighter mode and vulch the planes.
3) Land with your kills and go back to attack mode.
or I can reverse it... on how to get a poor score
1) look for out numbered situations, that are not in your favor, preferably where the numbers are greatly stacked against you... such as a 1v12 etc..
2) up and try to fight all of them at the same time.
3) die constantly
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This thread is about K/D. so if you want a high K/D do the following...
1) Look at the map, find a fight where your side has a large numerical advantage.
2) Fly there, and when fighting, keep you 'e' up and attack planes who are already engaged with others.
3) Don't turn more than 90 degrees, keep you speed, climb out, and repeat.
---or----
1) Spend all day in attack mode, then wait for a vulch to occur at an red guys field
2) Then switch to fighter mode and vulch the planes.
3) Land with your kills and go back to attack mode.
or I can reverse it... on how to get a poor score
1) look for out numbered situations, that are not in your favor, preferably where the numbers are greatly stacked against you... such as a 1v12 etc..
2) up and try to fight all of them at the same time.
3) die constantly
Idea #1 your Kills per time will be very low do to not having to fight for kills vs other people.
It will also do nothing for your gunnery %.
If you are not already fairly good you will not get many kills.
Idea 2 you will not get enough flight time in to raise your points in the fighter category.
HiTech
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If score is so easily manipulated, tell me exactly how you would manipulate it to increase your fighter rank.
HiTech
PT boats = great kills per time and hit %
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Idea #1 your Kills per time will be very low do to not having to fight for kills vs other people.
It will also do nothing for your gunnery %.
If you are not already fairly good you will not get many kills.
Idea 2 you will not get enough flight time in to raise your points in the fighter category.
HiTech
HiTech,
As I stated above, the opp is about KD not overall fighter score, to which I wrote in my post, to achieve a high K/D.
Also, if you do 'idea 1' for a while, you will develop good aim and over time have a high gunnery %, but sill know almost nothing about defensive ACMs.
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HiTech,
As I stated above, the opp is about KD not overall fighter score, to which I wrote in my post, to achieve a high K/D.
Also, if you do 'idea 1' for a while, you will develop good aim and over time have a high gunnery %, but sill know almost nothing about defensive ACMs.
Your leaving out SA....probably the most important thing in the MA
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HiTech,
As I stated above, the opp is about KD not overall fighter score, to which I wrote in my post, to achieve a high K/D.
Also, if you do 'idea 1' for a while, you will develop good aim and over time have a high gunnery %, but sill know almost nothing about defensive ACMs.
I understand Ardy, my comment was to the people who always say, scoring is simple to manipulate. If you are not already a good pilot, trying for score will not get you very high in the ranks. There is a huge difference between getting in the top 100 and getting in the top 5 when trying for score.
But to answer your original question 1.0 and above is good if you not concentrating on your K/d and flying to have fun. But if K/D is your only goal, then it completely sucks.
HiTech
HiTech
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If score is so easily manipulated, tell me exactly how you would manipulate it to increase your fighter rank.
HiTech
This is very easy to do.
1. Up a fighter, preferrably one with cannons
2. Go buff hunting and/or vulching
3. Only engage buffs and vulch, never engage in dogfight
4. Fly 5 to 10 sorties like this scored under "fighter" and land each flight
5. Score all fighter sorties after this under "Attack" to preserve your fighter score/rank
The above steps are how some achieve high fighter rank in the mid-war arena. For an example of such a player, just look at some of Biggamer's previous tours where he was #1 in Fighter.
ack-ack
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My favorite are the tools who run three or fewer in any particular category, but profusely deny "they fly for score". :rofl
Dale, it is most definitely manipulated.
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ok I was a bit off...I have all my info for 54 tours, (I dont have tour 125~129,took break at 130) so 54 tours, I have a total kill count of 15,442 with 10,723 deaths that is K/D of 1.44, my best K/D in all planes is tempest at 2.69,with 132kills,48deaths, the Hurri2 I have 6,478,kills,with 3,617,deaths K/D of 1.79, my best hit% is tour 124 at 7.25, my best K/H is 9.16 tour 122, the most planes I have killed from highest P51~1,168,Spit16~1,092,N1K2~826,LA7~772. Each one I killed more then I died to:-).. Tour 54 my third, I got 387kills,389deaths, in 82 hours tour 124 I got 388kills,181deaths, in 51 hours.....so I see a nice big improvment over the tours:-) the only planes that killed me more then I killed are F4U~1C,tempest,262,163,F4U4,typhon. All info was taken from "AKUAG Aces High pilot stats" I compilled all my names and tours I flew in at tour 124, thats why im missing a few:-( lol havnt been in a bomber since tour 86, have only 11 tours in GV's all early days,not 1 capture. Lol cool lookin at this.
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My favorite are the tools who run three or fewer in any particular category, but profusely deny "they fly for score". :rofl
Dale, it is most definitely manipulated.
Oh yeah.
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PT boats = great kills per time and hit %
Negative ghostrider, GV's/Boats don't help for fighter score. In fact, you're hit% would go down after strafing any.
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If I may, some of you may be twisting some statements a bit.....
I fly to make kills and land them. That is why my K/D is high. I know it sounds similar but it is not the same as saying, "I fly to improve my K/D"
I love the patience and SA it takes to anticipate incoming high altitude anything, buffs or fighters and being in a position to thwart their mission. Yes I start with an advantage most of the time. Those advantages include but are not limited to: SA, Altitude, Superior Plane, Superior guns, ACM, gunnery, and numerical advantage.
Here's the deal with me, I take off intending to get some alt and then engage the enemy so I put it on auto, then go do chores for 5 minutes or so. When I come back I want to be about halfway to the fight, gives me time to re-assess the situation. If, when I get to where I am going there is not anything else high, then I start shedding that alt, and engage. Sometimes there is just one poor guy there and it's a bad deal for him. Sometimes there is nothing but red and I am at best disrupting their mission and maybe getting a kill. Sometimes there is a bunch of greens, few reds but all the friendlies are low and the enemy high so I get to try to drive them all down to where I have some help and the low guys can finally engage the cluster circling high overhead. Sometimes its that high buff, he has been patient and is at 20k plus and all the friendlies have nothing for him because they have been having a good time furballing low. I figure if we are defending then I am helping by being that guy in the right place at the right time with the skill set to succeed. I have no problem fighting on the deck at a disadvantage. I have done that plenty of times. I just prefer not to start there.
I get that we are all different, looking for and enjoying different things and everyone here no matter what they do, if they are respectful have my respect and admiration.
Some of you guys are just fantastic at all aspects of this game. Grizz for example. He currently has a K/D over 50/1. Yet I see him doing everything this great game has to offer and looks like he's having a hell of a good time too. A couple of my squaddies fly so well as a winged pair that I don't even want to go near them because they are going to kill everything in their sector. With guys like these the best I can do is just try to keep up. Ever engagement, every kind allows me to learn and improve, I'm simply in no hurry.
So, why am I sharing all of this? To be loved and respected for uber skills? Nope, I don't have those skills. I simply want to be respected for the fun I am having and the enjoyment that interacting with all of you in what is the best game the world has to offer.
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Negative ghostrider, GV's/Boats don't help for fighter score. In fact, you're hit% would go down after strafing any.
wrong ghost rider. check it and see. Always been a little hidden secret.
Not only does it help your hit % and time, it helps in the total points. You dont get credit for the kill, but you raise 3 of 5 categories in fighter score.
Thanks for playing tho :ahand
EDIT: this only works on PT boats. Not any other GV
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:rofl Brian
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:rofl Brian
Kids :bhead
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Kids :bhead
I'd be careful, we got us some of dem mp3's.
:bolt:
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I'd be careful, we got us some of dem mp3's.
:bolt:
Troll fail
Thanks for the attempt, come back now, ya hear
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Troll fail
Thanks for the attempt, come back now, ya hear
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Ranks can be manipulated, but in my opinion you do actually need a fair degree of skill in order to do the manipulating. Fighter rank is the one most people would have trouble with. There are clear ways of gaming the game to improve each of the other ranks, but fighter is the more difficult.
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dont worry about kill / death. Look at kills per hour of flight and hit percentage that is the best indicator of skill.
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dont worry about kill / death. Look at kills per hour of flight and hit percentage that is the best indicator of skill.
Oh great, we have been looking at the wrong thing this whole time..... :bhead
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ok dads.... I'm just saying looking at the Aim (hit percentage) and how much combat time (kills per hour) is more reliable than looking at a 14 to 1 kill death from vulching.
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ok dads.... I'm just saying looking at the Aim (hit percentage) and how much combat time (kills per hour) is more reliable than looking at a 14 to 1 kill death from vulching.
Hit percentage and kills/time can be skewed as well...
Strafe some ground targets, buildings, acks, etc, while you're in fighter mode, and it'll drop. Hunt some bombers and you can bump it up.
Kills per hour is really hard to keep high if you fly in non-peak hours. Share the skies with 90 other people, 60 of which are out of your reach, or a long flight away, while 20 of them are on your own team, and kills can be far apart...
Bail rather than RTB, and it'll improve your kill/time. Or, fight until you die. K/D doesn't help your overall rank much once you can keep it up over 5/1. Going out, killing 5 guys, and piling it into a hill will give you good kills/hour, kills/death, and kills/sortie.
Taken on their own, any of the score facets can be skewed. The overall rank is actually more difficult to manipulate, once you get into the top ten or so.
Personally, I keep an eye on my hit% for a couple of reasons. One, it drives the other facets. Hitting what you aim at results in quick kills with fewer passes, which leads to less loss of energy, time, and SA. That leads to more kills, rather than another flight to the fight.
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They can all be skewed. The most important thing for the OP is improve your Aim and kills per hour of flight. This is for the benefit of the poster not the game and how to game it. Straffing buildings and ack in fighter mode gets you no where fast BTW. Go in attack mode. Fighter mode does not allow for damage hit percentage. Bailing instead of RTB gets you no where fast either as your other percentages suffer, reducing your overall score.
Play a clean game.
Dont worry about score.
Focus on hitting your target with as few rounds as possible.
Focus on not flying for 1 hour to get one kill.
If you see alot of red in a better combat situation than your in, leave and come back with a tactical advantage that will allow you to succeed.
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Here are my personal rules in my humbly preferred order:
1. Have Fun
2. Stay Alive
3. Kill Bad Guys
Keeping #2 above #3 ensures I have #1.
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios. Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
Well, I'm one of the guys with a fairly high score. You can think whatever you want but the truth is, that's how I enjoy playing. I have heard how boring this will become and then I will quit, WRONG! I have been playing for 15 years through 3 different games and I still love it.
I have been here for 13 months now and have a fighter K/D of 25/1 in total. I love the SA, gunnery and ACM required to achive this.
Flame away.....................
I must say a 40 K/D and you are only making 2 kills an hour??I couldnt do it dude flying around for an hour for only 2 kills. I follow what Grizz has always said Get in quick and get as many as you can or it was something like that but hey if thats how you fly more power to ya bud btw congrats on the 40 K/D
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My two cents...
What I have been working on is landing sorties. I noticed that out of 50 sorties I would only land 5-10, meaning I was being killed in the rest. My goal is now to hit 50% landed, and I am getting close. This means that I tend to be a little smarter about the fights I get into. I know this will cause some pilots heartburn but in reading the quotes from the greatest pilots they spoke of being smart. Boelke (sic) gave his 7 rules, which was all about being smart. Cpt Eric Hartmann, with well over 300 kills, talked of not engaging in a fight unless you have all the right advantages.
Everyone will play this game how they want. I see guys up over and over from fields that have been capped and the vulch light lite. For them it is the challenge of getting airborne and breaking the cap John Wayne style. I respect that. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I have chosen as of the last few months to emulate great pilots like Hartmann and Cpt David McCampbell, USN. I fly only fighter missions and I am now focused on flying smart. Good enough for Hartmann and company, good enough for me. I should also note, I am not flying for score though my score has improved dramatically.
Boo
Loose Deuce
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For about the first year I was on here I ran head long into a fight with my hair on fire and who cares if I get killed. I'll just re-up & it really is the only way to get killed painlessly. Then I wanted to start using a few perky fighters once in a while. An ya gotta land kills if ya wanna get perks. So I'm trying to do better. Before it took me weeks to get enough points for a little fun, now it just takes a few day & I don't rush my perky into a fight trying to get kilt! A little more cautious now, & it pays. :D
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what I find funny is those that are worried about dieing in a "game" Erich Hartmann.....please the guy would have really friggin died if he did not fly the way he did....real life....Game about air combat....oh I gotta stay alive...so I dont die.....it really is quite funny , the guy who posted that, what was it 40/1 kd? lol someone said he was getting 2 kills per hour...lolol oh man thats just sad, shows you right there score/rank means squat....see how long he last in a fight against me even with out flying these last few months.....hell my "rank" was never below the 1000's heck whatever though it is there $15 they can fly however they want, and I can laugh at em just the same ;-)
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I have chosen as of the last few months to emulate great pilots like Hartmann and Cpt David McCampbell, USN. I fly only fighter missions and I am now focused on flying smart....
Loose Deuce
No offence, but that explains why last time I fought the Loose Deuce in the MA, the minute they lost the adv in a fight they would run to a horde of friendlies....
Eric Hartmann didn't have the advantage of numerical superiority....
some accounts state that the Luftwaffe was out numbered 25x1. It takes much much more than timid flying to survive in that environment.
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You dont need numbers , only faster plane with more alt :old:
Leaving a fight when you beeing overwhelmed by hordes of la7s, and 109k's, spit16a is really smart actually ,specially if you are flying an undermodelled
A8 made of led.
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You dont need numbers , only faster plane with more alt :old:
Leaving a fight when you beeing overwhelmed by hordes of la7s, and 109k's, spit16a is really smart actually ,specially if you are flying an undermodelled
A8 made of led.
My point was that Eric had had and needed more than timid flying to survive as long as he did...
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Ardy and Ink, that's kind of funny.
About Eric Hartmann and his aggression. He had 345 kills. He also had 1,404 combat sorties with engagement in roughly 850 of them. This means that for every kill he had almost 2.5 engagements. I know, its a game though how aggressive was Hartmann? I think very aggressive but only when he put himself in position with as many advantages as possible. As he described his flying he was a Boom and Zoom expert: Get in with high speed, hold your fire until the enemy filled your windscreen, then blow out of there with as much speed into alt as possible.
I wonder how many of those kills came in multiples. I bet that of his 850 engagements he only logged kills in a 200 or less of them, accounting for multiples. This would mean that he only made kills in 25% or less of his fights.
To each their own. For the person who started this thread, you have lots of different views to consider.
Boo
Proud member of Loose Deuce since Aug 2010
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Have you noticed whom is absent from this discussion. The guys with the high K/D ratios. Can't say I blame them as the conversation is dominated by what seems to be opinions that say you should't have too high a K/D score.
I have a high K/D ratio, but that is more due to me being lucky and not having died in a 262, which is pretty much all i have flown in fighter mode because whenever I can I score as attack, and the 262 doesn't have an attack mode (yet?) than a gameplay choice.
To sum this thread up - everyone likes to play this game differently. It would be boring if everyone did exactly the same thing. It is their $15.00 and all that.
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The score system is good for comparing yourself to yourself, not to others.
Quote worthy material because every subscriber of Aces High will have a different approach to playing the game.
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first off, Hartmann had 352 kills....there is nothing you can tell me about the Blond Knight, that I dont allready know....second off....he was a great pilot in the way he flew, the whole point is he woulda really died, no one here really dies......but whatever LD and all the other people who are afraid for thier cartoon lives can fly how they want dont bother me at all I attack the Hourds, so I always find a fight, and when ever I catch any of you "realism" flyers alone or with just a couple its a easy fight to kill ya, but hey fly the way you want more lemmings for me to laugh at. ;-)
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I don't laught AT anyone that plays here, that would be poor sportsmanship. I don't denigrate anyone's playing style or abilities, that would be poor sportsmanship.
It is difficult to ask without seeming to be negative Ink but, why don't you play anymore and if you do not play why do you come here to the boards and offer your opinions which as I have observed seem to mostly be negative and derrogatory sir ?
I am acutely aware of my poor kills per hour. If I played for score, I would change that. Previously I described how I play and the enjoyment I get from it. I realize that it may seem an excuse for a poor kill per hour but it takes time to fly as I do, and I enjoy that part very much. I enjoy the feeling that just flying here gives me and find for me it is unneccessary to hurry to get kills to have fun.
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I don't laught AT anyone that plays here, that would be poor sportsmanship. I don't denigrate anyone's playing style or abilities, that would be poor sportsmanship.
It is difficult to ask without seeming to be negative Ink but, why don't you play anymore and if you do not play why do you come here to the boards and offer your opinions which as I have observed seem to mostly be negative and derrogatory sir ?
I am acutely aware of my poor kills per hour. If I played for score, I would change that. Previously I described how I play and the enjoyment I get from it. I realize that it may seem an excuse for a poor kill per hour but it takes time to fly as I do, and I enjoy that part very much. I enjoy the feeling that just flying here gives me and find for me it is unneccessary to hurry to get kills to have fun.
having a High K/D means nothing without kill per hour .I understand everything you are saying and respect you for speaking the truth anytime you wanna hit the DA and learn some things let me know bud :salute :salute Ink no need to be so blunt with it but i am sure most agree :salute
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Actually, what am I being nice for?! Ardy and Ink have insulted me.
So I went through the normal thoughts, first diplomatic and all. Even found Hartmann on Wikipedia and tried to razzle and dazzle Ink with some info. That obviously didn't work. Then I thought about throwing around the Loose Deuce record against the Army of Muppets in the Squad Dueling League. Didn't carry through with that since, 1) I wasn't a member of the LDs last year and I don't think I should brag about work that wasn't mine, and 2) I respect the Army of Muppets so why drag them into it when only one of theirs was off on a tangent. Then I thought about challenging both of them to some 1v1 time in the DA, but under the circumstances that would likely be bad form so...
I'm challenging both of you to sign up to Battle Over Germany, Axis side. Put your aggressive money where that keyboard chops are. You get to fly 109s and 190s, and since I am handling final assignments I can let you cherry pick which staffel (German for squad) you want. So....
Are you up to the challenge? Are you going to fly Battle Over Germany with us and demonstrate how I am less then aggressive enough and you both fly with the spirit of the blonde ace?
Warmest,
Boo
Loose Deuce
XO and recruiting officer for Germans
Battle Over Germany
PS We have numerous open slots left and we need brash talking, overly aggressive killers to take those spots, and to help lead lots of noobs in the proper ways of killing with elan. :salute
PPS My stats since everyone measure it different ways: Kills per death, 3.37 per; kills per hour, 5.47; kills per sortie, 2.01 - Interesting since my goal is not based on any of those but to bring up how many sorties I land, which is below my target of 50%. What does this mean? Little but I am willing to sort it out in the DA for fun, no acrimony. Always up for school; sometimes I teach, sometimes I learn. :rock
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Actually, what am I being nice for?! Ardy and Ink have insulted me.
So I went through the normal thoughts, first diplomatic and all. Even found Hartmann on Wikipedia and tried to razzle and dazzle Ink with some info. That obviously didn't work. Then I thought about throwing around the Loose Deuce record against the Army of Muppets in the Squad Dueling League. Didn't carry through with that since, 1) I wasn't a member of the LDs last year and I don't think I should brag about work that wasn't mine, and 2) I respect the Army of Muppets so why drag them into it when only one of theirs was off on a tangent. Then I thought about challenging both of them to some 1v1 time in the DA, but under the circumstances that would likely be bad form so...
I'm challenging both of you to sign up to Battle Over Germany, Axis side. Put your aggressive money where that keyboard chops are. You get to fly 109s and 190s, and since I am handling final assignments I can let you cherry pick which staffel (German for squad) you want. So....
Are you up to the challenge? Are you going to fly Battle Over Germany with us and demonstrate how I am less then aggressive enough and you both fly with the spirit of the blonde ace?
Warmest,
Boo
Loose Deuce
XO and recruiting officer for Germans
Battle Over Germany
PS We have numerous open slots left and we need brash talking, overly aggressive killers to take those spots, and to help lead lots of noobs in the proper ways of killing with elan. :salute
PPS My stats since everyone measure it different ways: Kills per death, 3.37 per; kills per hour, 5.47; kills per sortie, 2.01 - Interesting since my goal is not based on any of those but to bring up how many sorties I land, which is below my target of 50%. What does this mean? Little but I am willing to sort it out in the DA for fun, no acrimony. Always up for school; sometimes I teach, sometimes I learn. :rock
I want to watch these fights :) please accept Ink,Bunnies
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I would gladly acccept,except I am not conected to internet.....wont be for a bit yet.........(excep via this phone)and besides I was just pokin fun at ALL who are afraid to die in a game, those who avoid combat in a combat game, comparing real life to this game is asinine,period. if you were insulted by my words...."if the truth hurts change your reality".....its a game.....flyin the way you and many others do is silly....but like I said its your 15$ no skin off my back:-) I was not insulting you! I was razzin ya... and as far as Bone goes, im just a blunt truthfull guy cant help it, I am what I am. You know first hand I dont pull no punches and give respect to those that deserve it, I fly the way I am, with integrity and Honor.
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and as far as Bone goes, im just a blunt truthfull guy cant help it, I am what I am. You know first hand I dont pull no punches and give respect to those that deserve it, I fly the way I am, with integrity and Honor.
Thats why we love ya! :)
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having a High K/D means nothing without kill per hour.
Not really. A high K/D ratio coupled with a really high K/D screams of someone gaming fighter score through vulching (and scoring more risky flights as Attack) or someone who regularly flies very fast, extraordinarily lethal, and highly survivable planes like the 262 or Tempest. That's not to say that a few people can't manage both high K/D and high K/H without routinely doing these sorts of things, but let's be honest with ourselves here.
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Get back in the game soon man!
Bone, we gotta DA some more, I need tuning up for the tourney! I need all the help I can get.
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I would gladly acccept,except I am not conected to internet.....wont be for a bit yet.........(excep via this phone)and besides I was just pokin fun at ALL who are afraid to die in a game, those who avoid combat in a combat game, comparing real life to this game is asinine,period. if you were insulted by my words...."if the truth hurts change your reality".....its a game.....flyin the way you and many others do is silly
Absolutely no disrespect intended to anybody, but is it your contention that there is a NON-silly way to play this game? A good number of us are grown men playing a high tech version of cowboys and indians... and there is honor to be found here? We're all sitting around in our bunny slippers, pants optional, half of us with a drink in hand, playing a game online probably for way more hours than we should... Sorry, but I'm having trouble seeing this as serious business...
The way guys like Zoney get their fun is to stay alive at all costs, kill where they can. It's can be an annoying style to play against, I agree. It's no more silly than diving into a pack of red and then thumping your chest at the fact you got a couple of them before you died.
It's ALL silly.
Wiley.
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Actually, what am I being nice for?! Ardy and Ink have insulted me.
Wait I've insulted you by saying that Erich Hartmann was a good pilot? :headscratch: :headscratch:
I'm sorry if I did, that wasn't my intentions as I stated in my post.
Unlike AH, in WW2, you didn't know where the enemy was, so many flight you might not find a con. In AH all you have to do is look at the radar bars. :aok
Neither Ink or I is Eric Hartman so your challenge has no relevance and proves nothing.
That being said, I'll happily duel you in the DA.
If you don't believe my experience fighting your squad, My squady Squat1 will back me up, as he was there too. To be honest, I was surprised by the behavior, because over the years of playing this game, the LD have not been known to be timid.
BTW... Madda & Bone, when are we going to duel again??
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Wiley~there absolutly is Honor here like any "game" the people make up the game, someone who lives by and understands Honor in real life, will most likely bring it to the game, sad to say most people today dont know what Honor, Integrity, Virtue, are, and live oblivious to these very important espects of humanity.
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Wiley~there absolutly is Honor here like any "game" the people make up the game, someone who lives by and understands Honor in real life, will most likely bring it to the game, sad to say most people today dont know what Honor, Integrity, Virtue, are, and live oblivious to these very important espects of humanity.
Ink your making too much sense, its their 15 bucks and they can act like a child if they want too.... Its a game. :bhead
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DADS~ so true......but that means I can laugh at em just the same ;-)
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Wiley~there absolutly is Honor here like any "game" the people make up the game, someone who lives by and understands Honor in real life, will most likely bring it to the game, sad to say most people today dont know what Honor, Integrity, Virtue, are, and live oblivious to these very important espects of humanity.
Damn kids... ;)
I still think that viewpoint is reading a lot more into peoples' motivations than actually applies. You're assuming people online are acting as they would in the real world, untrue for the vast majority.
One thing I am curious about: You and a lot of other duelists seem to be of the mindset 'Staying in the fight=honorable.'
Why?
Do you lose something more if you die that way, therefore making your having been shot down somehow of more worth than if you'd turned tail and forced them to run you down? It still winds up being one more death for you, one more kill for the other guy. You didn't sacrifice anything by sticking around, it just means you don't have to take the time to RTB before reupping a fresh plane.
Wiley.
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Ink, I'm not offended in the least. I was hopeful a humorous tone came through, which apparently did not. I was mostly trying get you to fly Battle Over Germany with us. In closing I said in 'fun, not acrimony.' When you get online let me know and we can cut some circles in the DA. And hopefully you'll consider BOG. As for my flying motivation it works for me, obviously not others but that's ok.
All the best!
Boo
:salute
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Ink, I'm not offended in the least. I was hopeful a humorous tone came through, which apparently did not. I was mostly trying get you to fly Battle Over Germany with us. In closing I said in 'fun, not acrimony.' When you get online let me know and we can cut some circles in the DA. And hopefully you'll consider BOG. As for my flying motivation it works for me, obviously not others but that's ok.
All the best!
Boo
:salute
Yup I saw it as blantant advertising for more pilots to fill the ranks lol
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Ardy, read my post above - no offense at all. I suppose I should put the emodicons in different places. That being said im happy to meet in the DA in good sport. I'll be on tomorrow evening. Is your handle in_game Ardy? As for LD, Dhyran remains squad CO. I don't think his style has changed, we simply follow the CO.
All the best!
Boo
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Ardy, read my post above - no offense at all. I suppose I should put the emodicons in different places. That being said im happy to meet in the DA in good sport. I'll be on tomorrow evening. Is your handle in_game Ardy? As for LD, Dhyran remains squad CO. I don't think his style has changed, we simply follow the CO.
All the best!
Boo
Boo,
in game I am Bunnies.
I don't know about tomorrow night but l'll be on tonight but I live in a GMT-8 time zone so it might be late for you. Either way, I'm on at around 8pm PST.
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Wiley~ it goes deeper then just staying in fight =Honorable,I fly and conduct my self exactly how I am in the real world,I treat those who deserve it with respect and those who dont with distain,I dont consider myself a "furballer" or "dueler"I am a Fighter,all comers,all nme,any situation,I try not to Vulch, hourd,interfer with a 1vs1,if I am in a 1vs1 and a friendly of mine jumps in I break away,if a friendly of the guy Im fighting jumps in,I except the 2vs1 without whining on 200,I always fight to the finish,even if I know I cannot win the engagement,say im fightin a guy he runs and then im engaged with a bunch of his friendlies for him to come back and join in trying to kill me is lame,I may call him out for it,or I may not,but I wont respect him thats for sure.Its a game for Combat IE "FIGHTING" how can I respect someone for doing every thing they can to avoid a fight...or only engage when they hold all the cards...that is going against WHO I am. And that is something I just cant do,not dont want to.~INK
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mthrockmor~cool im glad you were not insulted, and the written word is hard to get across even with smilies and what not,people insult people here constintly and think because they toss in a smiley it not an insult....But ya I would fly that if I was Online im sure its gonna be a blast,I was a avid FSO guy,those type of events can be a lot of fun. But unlike the other Muppets I havnt flown the 109's very often, and not very good in one, I actually flew the Hurri2 almost exclusivly,untill I got into the KI84....on that note I have been doing a lot of off line missions with the K4 and when I get back It will probably be my maine ride, I am getting that 30mm down good:-)
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Wiley~ it goes deeper then just staying in fight =Honorable,I fly and conduct my self exactly how I am in the real world,I treat those who deserve it with respect and those who dont with distain,I dont consider myself a "furballer" or "dueler"I am a Fighter,all comers,all nme,any situation,I try not to Vulch, hourd,interfer with a 1vs1,if I am in a 1vs1 and a friendly of mine jumps in I break away,if a friendly of the guy Im fighting jumps in,I except the 2vs1 without whining on 200,I always fight to the finish,even if I know I cannot win the engagement,say im fightin a guy he runs and then im engaged with a bunch of his friendlies for him to come back and join in trying to kill me is lame,I may call him out for it,or I may not,but I wont respect him thats for sure.Its a game for Combat IE "FIGHTING" how can I respect someone for doing every thing they can to avoid a fight...or only engage when they hold all the cards...that is going against WHO I am. And that is something I just cant do,not dont want to.~INK
ditto of the same mindset
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BTW... Madda & Bone, when are we going to duel again??
Any time at all man, you know I'm game. Just give me a shout any time you see me. I've got to get tuned up for this bracket coming up.
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having a High K/D means nothing without kill per hour .I understand everything you are saying and respect you for speaking the truth anytime you wanna hit the DA and learn some things let me know bud :salute :salute Ink no need to be so blunt with it but i am sure most agree :salute
:salute, Sir! Thanks for the offer, I shall be taking you up on it. I have been there before and I have excellent squaddies that have helped me and continue to, however I think ya learn something from everyone and knowledge is power.
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Wiley~ it goes deeper then just staying in fight =Honorable,I fly and conduct my self exactly how I am in the real world,I treat those who deserve it with respect and those who dont with distain,I dont consider myself a "furballer" or "dueler"I am a Fighter,all comers,all nme,any situation,I try not to Vulch, hourd,interfer with a 1vs1,if I am in a 1vs1 and a friendly of mine jumps in I break away,if a friendly of the guy Im fighting jumps in,I except the 2vs1 without whining on 200,I always fight to the finish,even if I know I cannot win the engagement,say im fightin a guy he runs and then im engaged with a bunch of his friendlies for him to come back and join in trying to kill me is lame,I may call him out for it,or I may not,but I wont respect him thats for sure.Its a game for Combat IE "FIGHTING" how can I respect someone for doing every thing they can to avoid a fight...or only engage when they hold all the cards...that is going against WHO I am. And that is something I just cant do,not dont want to.~INK
Fair enough. It's about what I figured. That's one thing I've given you a lot of credit for, I've seen you go into the middle of a mass of red often, but I've never seen you whine about getting ganged when you did it. <S>
The thing is, you realize and accept the consequences of fighting the way you do. So many people I've seen ingame dive into 5 or 6 bandits, then cry when they get ganged. I've never understood that.
Wiley.
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Looks like we have two 1v1's in order. This is my first friendly challenge. So what is protocol? Is it dissimilar? etc.
I would say that I would like a crack against DrBone. I haven't compiled a list but I've never shot DrBone, Bruv and a few others down. It's gotta happen sometime. I'm thinking we should try and set one date for the four of us.
Also, I'm game for a hot merge. I used to get upset when I was HO'd but realized that flying right into someones cross hairs, no more. My fault and part of flying smart. And I have signed up for the big dueling challenge. Should be a good time.
Thoughts? Any time this Sunday?
Boo
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Looks like we have two 1v1's in order. This is my first friendly challenge. So what is protocol? Is it dissimilar? etc.
I would say that I would like a crack against DrBone. I haven't compiled a list but I've never shot DrBone, Bruv and a few others down. It's gotta happen sometime. I'm thinking we should try and set one date for the four of us.
Also, I'm game for a hot merge. I used to get upset when I was HO'd but realized that flying right into someones cross hairs, no more. My fault and part of flying smart. And I have signed up for the big dueling challenge. Should be a good time.
Thoughts? Any time this Sunday?
Boo
The protocol is usually
1) no hos
2) same plane
3) deck merge
of course this can always be changed if both parties agree.
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Damn kids... ;)
I still think that viewpoint is reading a lot more into peoples' motivations than actually applies. You're assuming people online are acting as they would in the real world, untrue for the vast majority.
One thing I am curious about: You and a lot of other duelists seem to be of the mindset 'Staying in the fight=honorable.'
Why?
Do you lose something more if you die that way, therefore making your having been shot down somehow of more worth than if you'd turned tail and forced them to run you down? It still winds up being one more death for you, one more kill for the other guy. You didn't sacrifice anything by sticking around, it just means you don't have to take the time to RTB before reupping a fresh plane.
Wiley.
The more important question is why not?
because we don't really die, and planes are free, we have nothing to lose by pushing it to the limit. That's the beauty of it being a game. Think of all the great fighter pilots who never got books written about them because for them it was real and due to time, place, numbers, aircraft type or whatever they never got another chance and they ended up dead or POW's.
Also note, that most, if not all of the guys who wade back into the fight, can play it the other way and in scenarios, FSO, Snapshot etc survive just fine with the one or two lives the event allows.
I would disagree with you as well about online vs offline personas. In the end, people's true colors come through.
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The more important question is why not?
Well, because some people get their fun from flying to varying degrees as though their life depended on it. For some people, it is no fun to fly in a manner that is going to result in inevitable death. Why is that so wrong?
because we don't really die, and planes are free, we have nothing to lose by pushing it to the limit.
Yup, so we may as well HO and ram everything in sight. You don't really die, so it's no problem, right? What's the difference between HO/ramming everything in sight, and diving into a situation you know you're not going to come out of? The result is the same.
That's the beauty of it being a game. Think of all the great fighter pilots who never got books written about them because for them it was real and due to time, place, numbers, aircraft type or whatever they never got another chance and they ended up dead or POW's.
Also note, that most, if not all of the guys who wade back into the fight, can play it the other way and in scenarios, FSO, Snapshot etc survive just fine with the one or two lives the event allows.
Never said they couldn't, I was talking about different playstyles, the 1v1 mentality versus side-based, and what people find fun.
I would disagree with you as well about online vs offline personas. In the end, people's true colors come through.
Bah, I've seen both, some people are online like they are IRL, some are bastards to their enemies online, but nice as pie IRL. Some are nice as pie online, and real pieces of work IRL. Just because someone's beating you down 'unfairly' in a game doesn't mean they're a bad person, they're just playing by a different set of self-imposed rules than you.
Wiley.
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Well, because some people get their fun from flying to varying degrees as though their life depended on it. For some people, it is no fun to fly in a manner that is going to result in inevitable death. Why is that so wrong?
You up... you will die an inevitable death sometime no matter how careful you are.
Yup, so we may as well HO and ram everything in sight. You don't really die, so it's no problem, right? What's the difference between HO/ramming everything in sight, and diving into a situation you know you're not going to come out of? The result is the same.
...Better yet try to compete in a fight. :)
Bah, I've seen both, some people are online like they are IRL, some are bastards to their enemies online, but nice as pie IRL. Some are nice as pie online, and real pieces of work IRL. Just because someone's beating you down 'unfairly' in a game doesn't mean they're a bad person, they're just playing by a different set of self-imposed rules than you.
Usually the real person comes through
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You up... you will die an inevitable death sometime no matter how careful you are.
Of course you will, but there's a difference between diving into the middle of a red crowd, and trying to work your way down from the top, or the edge, or whatever. Again, why is it so wrong that some people find fun flying with their first priority to get themselves and their wingman home?
...Better yet try to compete in a fight. :)
And of course, by 'fight' you mean... what exactly? Side vs side, anything goes? Honorable 1v1 duel? Dive into a horde and turnfight until you die?
Wiley.
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Of course you will, but there's a difference between diving into the middle of a red crowd, and trying to work your way down from the top, or the edge, or whatever. Again, why is it so wrong that some people find fun flying with their first priority to get themselves and their wingman home?
And of course, by 'fight' you mean... what exactly? Side vs side, anything goes? Honorable 1v1 duel? Dive into a horde and turnfight until you die?
Wiley.
Nothing wrong with trying to get home... if that is all your interested in.
You must mean what do I mean by compete........ that is to go against others in the game.
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Well, because some people get their fun from flying to varying degrees as though their life depended on it. For some people, it is no fun to fly in a manner that is going to result in inevitable death. Why is that so wrong?
Yup, so we may as well HO and ram everything in sight. You don't really die, so it's no problem, right? What's the difference between HO/ramming everything in sight, and diving into a situation you know you're not going to come out of? The result is the same.
Never said they couldn't, I was talking about different playstyles, the 1v1 mentality versus side-based, and what people find fun.
Bah, I've seen both, some people are online like they are IRL, some are bastards to their enemies online, but nice as pie IRL. Some are nice as pie online, and real pieces of work IRL. Just because someone's beating you down 'unfairly' in a game doesn't mean they're a bad person, they're just playing by a different set of self-imposed rules than you.
Wiley.
Only one promise in this game. You have to find the fun yourself with the tools provided. I didn't say any way was the right one. You asked why do people fly that way? And my response was why not.
No worries as long as you are having fun and I am too :aok
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I think it would be neat if those that like to runaway when they have lost their advantage RTB "alive" had a check box in the hanger like "fighter" or "attack" sortie. Call it FTL (fight to live). What it would is paint your tail pink, and when you dis-engage from a fight to RTB the guy you were fighting would know your out and wouldn't chase you. It would also award the victory to the guy who was staying in the fight, after all running to RTB is admitting that you can no longer win a fight. Pink tails once diving under 1k their guns will no longer work, but they can no longer take damage either. This way they can RTB in peace and not have enemy wasting their time diving down on them while they are only just RTBin.
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I think it would be neat if those that like to runaway when they have lost their advantage RTB "alive" had a check box in the hanger like "fighter" or "attack" sortie. Call it FTL (fight to live). What it would is paint your tail pink, and when you dis-engage from a fight to RTB the guy you were fighting would know your out and wouldn't chase you. It would also award the victory to the guy who was staying in the fight, after all running to RTB is admitting that you can no longer win a fight. Pink tails once diving under 1k their guns will no longer work, but they can no longer take damage either. This way they can RTB in peace and not have enemy wasting their time diving down on them while they are only just RTBin.
This is the kind of whine I dislike the most. Just people complaining about not being able to kill a certain type of plane. They are not running because they lost the advantage. They are simply not giving the advantage to you. If you want to shoot down fast planes fly a fast plane. Don't cry because you cant run them down in you zero, hurricane or what ever plane you fly that is too slow to catch them. Fast planes that don't turn have tactical ACM's that are advantagious to them and turn fighters have theirs. Fly the plane in a way that will allow you to be victorious. But don't cry when your not.
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Victorious??
Do you consider the fact that you lived to be victorious?
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Victorious??
Do you consider the fact that you lived to be victorious?
The fact that you killed the enemy/some of the enemy and got home would seem to indicate that they are dead, you are not. I think that would qualify as a 'victory'.
Wiley.
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I guess I do not run into all of these folks that disengage and run until they are out of icon range. On occasion yes, but not so prevalent that folks can say that it goes on way to often. I either do not let them leave, or follow them until they land. I have done this up to two plus sectors, and oh the PM's and 200 chatter after I caught them on the runway while landing. They are gonna give me a conclusion to our meetup at one point or another. :devil
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sorry wiley a kill is a kill is a kill..WRONG..YOU were actually starring in a film I was taking some gun cam footage out of lastnight....lol...quite funny watching you come back and engage me after I sent you to the tower in your spit 8,while I was fighing a line of red and no green,I was flying under MORTIS...remember?ether way it was quite funny that we have been disgussing this here and then low and behold who do I see in a film "you shot down Wiley"the second "kill"I got on you I dont consider a "kill"you augerd trying to kill me,so no a victory is not always a kill,I died that sortie,like I do most sorties,but every sortie wether I die or not is a victory,for I will never run I fight it out no matter what,I dont consider myself great by anymeans,but I know because of how I have always flown,I will give anyone in here a run for there money,I fought "Steve" one time for over 15 minutes him in a 51 me in a hurri,he couldnt kill me I couldnt kill him,it was an amazing fight. The fight is where its at.
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sorry wiley a kill is a kill is a kill..WRONG..YOU were actually starring in a film I was taking some gun cam footage out of lastnight....lol...quite funny watching you come back and engage me after I sent you to the tower in your spit 8,while I was fighing a line of red and no green,I was flying under MORTIS...remember?ether way it was quite funny that we have been disgussing this here and then low and behold who do I see in a film "you shot down Wiley"the second "kill"I got on you I dont consider a "kill"you augerd trying to kill me,so no a victory is not always a kill,I died that sortie,like I do most sorties,but every sortie wether I die or not is a victory,for I will never run I fight it out no matter what,I dont consider myself great by anymeans,but I know because of how I have always flown,I will give anyone in here a run for there money,I fought "Steve" one time for over 15 minutes him in a 51 me in a hurri,he couldnt kill me I couldnt kill him,it was an amazing fight. The fight is where its at.
Hey Ink,
I get where you are coming from and somewhat agree. If the fight is where is at, why up a bird with bullets or cannons? Because we want to get a kill. A fight without kills is like having sex without an orgasm. It is more than just the ACM involved prior to the kill.
:salute
Way
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This is the kind of whine I dislike the most. Just people complaining about not being able to kill a certain type of plane. They are not running because they lost the advantage. They are simply not giving the advantage to you. If you want to shoot down fast planes fly a fast plane. Don't cry because you cant run them down in you zero, hurricane or what ever plane you fly that is too slow to catch them. Fast planes that don't turn have tactical ACM's that are advantagious to them and turn fighters have theirs. Fly the plane in a way that will allow you to be victorious. But don't cry when your not.
Well said ToeTag! <S>
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I fought "Steve" one time for over 15 minutes him in a 51 me in a hurri,he couldnt kill me I couldnt kill him,it was an amazing fight. The fight is where its at.
Dude, he was AFK :banana:
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Wiley~ the kill or death at the end of the fight is less then the fight itself, we use guns because well we are fighting with planes that have guns:-) I see that you have a mind and are willing to listen, thats a good thing. Once im back, we will go again, maybe go to DA have some good fights.you'll find me surrounded by red in the Mains :-)
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The main arena has so little in common with actual WW2 air combat that you can place a high value on whatever you like. That could be great fights, vulching, or always landing wheels up. Really, there is no fact of the matter here about what is most important.
But in "real life" the name of the game is killing the other guy without getting killed yourself. As MVR said, anything else is rubbish. ;)
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The main arena has so little in common with actual WW2 air combat that you can place a high value on whatever you like. That could be great fights, vulching, or always landing wheels up. Really, there is no fact of the matter here about what is most important.
But in "real life" the name of the game is killing the other guy without getting killed yourself. As MVR said, anything else is rubbish. ;)
+1
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The main arena has so little in common with actual WW2 air combat that you can place a high value on whatever you like. That could be great fights, vulching, or always landing wheels up. Really, there is no fact of the matter here about what is most important.
But in "real life" the name of the game is killing the other guy without getting killed yourself. As MVR said, anything else is rubbish. ;)
+10
I dont slag off on furballers, basetakers, DA'ers. I dont slagg off on anyone for how they play the game. To each his own I say, respectfully. Would be nice to get some of that respect in return from a few here.
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Yeager~that was awesome....;-) I actually laughed out loud....Anox~true the goal in the main arena is to kill the red guy...absolutly true.....but if you think vulching them on the runway is the same, as fighting them on somewhat fair or equal termes, well I just cant wrap my mind around that thought
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sorry wiley a kill is a kill is a kill..WRONG..YOU were actually starring in a film I was taking some gun cam footage out of lastnight....lol...quite funny watching you come back and engage me after I sent you to the tower in your spit 8,while I was fighing a line of red and no green,I was flying under MORTIS...remember?ether way it was quite funny that we have been disgussing this here and then low and behold who do I see in a film "you shot down Wiley"the second "kill"I got on you I dont consider a "kill"you augerd trying to kill me,so no a victory is not always a kill,I died that sortie,like I do most sorties,but every sortie wether I die or not is a victory,for I will never run I fight it out no matter what,I dont consider myself great by anymeans,but I know because of how I have always flown,I will give anyone in here a run for there money,I fought "Steve" one time for over 15 minutes him in a 51 me in a hurri,he couldnt kill me I couldnt kill him,it was an amazing fight. The fight is where its at.
MORTIS is the only handle I've seen you fly under. A spit 8... Can't even remember the last time I was in one of those, it might've been that sortie. If I was in a spit, it was probably because one of my squaddies/countrymen had mentioned a twisty plane giving them fits on the deck.
Wiley~ the kill or death at the end of the fight is less then the fight itself, we use guns because well we are fighting with planes that have guns:-) I see that you have a mind and are willing to listen, thats a good thing. Once im back, we will go again, maybe go to DA have some good fights.you'll find me surrounded by red in the Mains :-)
Heh, you'll hand it to me, but I'm game. My dueling skills are beyond rusty, and at best I'm just another dweeb.
At all times though, I fly in the MA as though it's 'side vs side', meaning, I look at the other side not as a series of singletons to be dueled, but rather a mass to be dealt with with whatever means I have available. Depending on numbers when I log in, sometimes I am one of the zerglings in a green horde, sometimes I'm one of the guys getting horded by a red cloud. I rarely reup to head back with a green horde unless I'm interested in the base take that's occurring or I'm flying with my squad and that's what they're doing. If there's no significant opposition, I'm bored. My point is, I'm trying to work with the other friendly planes in the area to kill the enemy as efficiently as possible, not get as many kills for myself as I can necessarily.
I guess here's how I look at the MA. To me, here's how I'd rank sorties from 'most successful' to 'least successful'.
Up, find an enemy crowd, kill them all, RTB safely.
Up, find an enemy crowd, kill some of them, RTB safely due to fuel/damage/ammo.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, kill them all, RTB safely.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, kill some of them, RTB safely due to fuel/damage/ammo.
Up, find a singleton, kill him, RTB due to lack of targets/damage/fuel/ammo.
Up, find an enemy crowd, get a few kills, get killed.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, get a few kills, get killed.
Up, find a singleton, engage, get killed by him.
Crash on takeoff/get bounced and killed by a singleton I don't even see.
Any of those scenarios are made harder or easier depending on the ratio of friend to foe in the area, obviously.
Where I get my jollies is trying to survive after getting some kills in a crowd. Getting in, killing some of them, and getting out to me is a lot harder than getting in and killing a few of them, and being overcommitted to the point they get you.
I realize it takes skill to survive for a while against multiples like some of you guys do. I never said it didn't. I just think that flying in a manner that's going to result in certain death is only slightly less pointless than running around HOing everything in sight. I get that it's fun, I'm not arguing that it's not. I'm just saying to me, it's meaningless if you're not trying to get home.
Personally, I also think maintaining a 25:1 kill ratio is boring as HELL, but I don't think it's as easy as some of you guys make it out to be, depending on the conditions it's done under.
Wiley.
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MORTIS is the only handle I've seen you fly under. A spit 8... Can't even remember the last time I was in one of those, it might've been that sortie. If I was in a spit, it was probably because one of my squaddies/countrymen had mentioned a twisty plane giving them fits on the deck.
Heh, you'll hand it to me, but I'm game. My dueling skills are beyond rusty, and at best I'm just another dweeb.
At all times though, I fly in the MA as though it's 'side vs side', meaning, I look at the other side not as a series of singletons to be dueled, but rather a mass to be dealt with with whatever means I have available. Depending on numbers when I log in, sometimes I am one of the zerglings in a green horde, sometimes I'm one of the guys getting horded by a red cloud. I rarely reup to head back with a green horde unless I'm interested in the base take that's occurring or I'm flying with my squad and that's what they're doing. If there's no significant opposition, I'm bored. My point is, I'm trying to work with the other friendly planes in the area to kill the enemy as efficiently as possible, not get as many kills for myself as I can necessarily.
I guess here's how I look at the MA. To me, here's how I'd rank sorties from 'most successful' to 'least successful'.
Up, find an enemy crowd, kill them all, RTB safely.
Up, find an enemy crowd, kill some of them, RTB safely due to fuel/damage/ammo.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, kill them all, RTB safely.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, kill some of them, RTB safely due to fuel/damage/ammo.
Up, find a singleton, kill him, RTB due to lack of targets/damage/fuel/ammo.
Up, find an enemy crowd, get a few kills, get killed.
Up, find a few strung out singletons/doubles, get a few kills, get killed.
Up, find a singleton, engage, get killed by him.
Crash on takeoff/get bounced and killed by a singleton I don't even see.
Any of those scenarios are made harder or easier depending on the ratio of friend to foe in the area, obviously.
Where I get my jollies is trying to survive after getting some kills in a crowd. Getting in, killing some of them, and getting out to me is a lot harder than getting in and killing a few of them, and being overcommitted to the point they get you.
I realize it takes skill to survive for a while against multiples like some of you guys do. I never said it didn't. I just think that flying in a manner that's going to result in certain death is only slightly less pointless than running around HOing everything in sight. I get that it's fun, I'm not arguing that it's not. I'm just saying to me, it's meaningless if you're not trying to get home.
Personally, I also think maintaining a 25:1 kill ratio is boring as HELL, but I don't think it's as easy as some of you guys make it out to be, depending on the conditions it's done under.
Wiley.
I Agree with some of what you said actually most of it :salute
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The fact that you killed the enemy/some of the enemy and got home would seem to indicate that they are dead, you are not. I think that would qualify as a 'victory'.
Wiley.
But you said running from the enemy is your tactic. You have not killed him. He is behind you.
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But you said running from the enemy is your tactic. You have not killed him. He is behind you.
That was not said. What was said
This is the kind of whine I dislike the most. Just people complaining about not being able to kill a certain type of plane. They are not running because they lost the advantage. They are simply not giving the advantage to you. If you want to shoot down fast planes fly a fast plane. Don't cry because you cant run them down in your zero, hurricane or what ever plane you fly that is too slow to catch them. Fast planes that don't turn have tactical ACM's that are advantagious to them and turn fighters have theirs. Fly the plane in a way that will allow you to be victorious. But don't cry when your not.
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I get it... so when you have little advantage or on equal terms run in your fast plane.
Not meaning to needle you. Just interested at what point you decide to run.
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Jeeze...you dont get it... If I can walk away and regain a superior tactical advantage that is what I and anyone that is smart will do. If your looking for planes to just lay down and allow you to shoot them go into the offline mode and shoot at the circle of non manuvering, slow and predictable planes. You'll be happy there. :bolt:
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But you said running from the enemy is your tactic. You have not killed him. He is behind you.
Ah, I think I see what happened here. I hadn't realized you were talking about a specific quote. Can't speak to his motivations.
I was just saying I define victory as killing one or more enemy and RTBing. If I've killed a couple of the enemy and one or a few of them are trying to run me down and I'm missing parts, yeah, I consider it a victory to get away successfully.
Wiley.
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While my last post was meant to be on the "sarcastic" side I don't see it as a problem as a new option for players. Why not have a setting so those that fight to live have an option like that. It would also work out for us who just like to fight. If after you attacking me in multiple passes and due to my skill/luck I deny you a kill, why should I be denied the kill because your in a faster plane? It is a game after all and as someone above said that's why we have bullets.
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(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/agent-smith-matrix1.jpg)
I'm a fast moving TEMPEST that is going to eat your cookies you fat, whining piece of german steel!
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/barr-oven.jpg)
But I don't understand why I can't KEEL you oh speedy bullet dodging bad guy?
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/10845__matrix_l.jpg)
Thats because you have to be fast too if you want to catch him.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/matrix06morpheus_small-2.jpg)
The chosen 51 has spoken.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/471291225324roseanne.jpg)
So your saying I have to drop on him with my big guns to KEEL him?
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/matrix06morpheus_small-2.jpg)
YES! Because we both know if you fall from a great height you will be very very fast indeed. Just try not to leave to big of a hole in the ground!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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:huh
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I feel for some reason, part of me just died a little bit inside...
Wiley.
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Roseanne does that.....sorry
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:huh
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I feel for some reason, part of me just died a little bit inside...
Wiley.
If you could put your finger on it....... would you?
:noid
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If you could put your finger on it....... would you?
:noid
:bhead
Well played, sir... Well played.
Wiley.
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While my last post was meant to be on the "sarcastic" side I don't see it as a problem as a new option for players. Why not have a setting so those that fight to live have an option like that. It would also work out for us who just like to fight. If after you attacking me in multiple passes and due to my skill/luck I deny you a kill, why should I be denied the kill because your in a faster plane? It is a game after all and as someone above said that's why we have bullets.
Well, that is the rub of the main arena. You've got 400 people all in one place, all with goals you could put in a dozen different discernible categories.
But the easiest solution to the frustration of having a target run away is to fly a fast plane that requires a lot of technique to 1vs1 with. Almost no one thinks of running from a 190D-9 or P-47N.
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Well, that is the rub of the main arena. You've got 400 people all in one place, all with goals you could put in a dozen different discernible categories.
But the easiest solution to the frustration of having a target run away is to fly a fast plane that requires a lot of technique to duel with. Almost no one thinks of running from a 190D-9 or P-47N.
But they keep trying to run from a particular k4 :devil
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why should I be denied the kill because your in a faster plane?
For the same reason he might get denied a kill because you chose a plane that turns better.
There are fast planes and slow planes. Planes that turn hard and planes that don’t. Cannon birds and ball round guns. Everything has its advantage and disadvantage. He goes faster, you turn better. My cannon has more hitting power, you have more rounds. My planes does better at high alt, yours does better at low alt. Rock paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. You chose your combination of abilities in the hangar and try to make the best of them in the arena while trying to prevent the enemy from being able to make the best use of his.
An intelligent pilot would try and maximized his particular advantages against you as much as possible, while denying the same to you.
If a fighter pilot ever allows his enemy anything even closely resembling a fair fight, then he’s doing it wrong.
Regards,
Wab
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sorry wiley a kill is a kill is a kill..WRONG..YOU were actually starring in a film I was taking some gun cam footage out of lastnight....lol...quite funny watching you come back and engage me after I sent you to the tower in your spit 8,while I was fighing a line of red and no green,I was flying under MORTIS...remember?ether way it was quite funny that we have been disgussing this here and then low and behold who do I see in a film "you shot down Wiley"the second "kill"I got on you I dont consider a "kill"you augerd trying to kill me,so no a victory is not always a kill,I died that sortie,like I do most sorties,but every sortie wether I die or not is a victory,for I will never run I fight it out no matter what,I dont consider myself great by anymeans,but I know because of how I have always flown,I will give anyone in here a run for there money,I fought "Steve" one time for over 15 minutes him in a 51 me in a hurri,he couldnt kill me I couldnt kill him,it was an amazing fight. The fight is where its at.
Ink, I just re-read your earlier posts and in them you said you were not currently playing. What's up with that? Are you now playing, and how long have you been back? :salute Sir!
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An intelligent pilot would try and maximized his particular advantages against you as much as possible, while denying the same to you.
If a fighter pilot ever allows his enemy anything even closely resembling a fair fight, then he’s doing it wrong.
Regards,
Wab
+ a large numerical value
Glad Im not the only person who appoaches his gameplay with this attitude. Although I do like to "cut a rug" and burn in flames from time to time :)
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+ a large numerical value
Glad Im not the only person who appoaches his gameplay with this attitude. Although I do like to "cut a rug" and burn in flames from time to time :)
I'm right there with you on that Yeager. I also believe we share the same consideration to our foes regarding how they choose to play and our choice to show them some respect no matter what those choices are.
:salute sir, I'll see you :airplane: !
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So I tried a John Wayne flight. I was beginning to believe I was Nancyfied and needed to grow a pair of brass ones. Upped off a CV to defend a base under attack. There were 4 or 5 of us trying to break up an attack of 15-20 cons. I am neither a hero or a world class pilot but I can generally take care of my own. It was almost impossible to gain any alt, in the 5 minutes of flight I got hits on 4 different planes but only snap shots. It was much like shoving a hive of bees up your rear and swatting while running. Can't really run fast, can't sit still, unable to really concentrate long enough to make the kill.
How much skill it took to pull a John Wayne flight? I don't know, if I was better maybe I would have lasted 6 minutes. Maybe if I was briliant I would have lasted 7. Should I flatter myself into believing everyone else would have died after only 4? In any case, just plain old sucks.
I'll stick to my cartoon world of following Hartmann and crew about smart fights. If that means I should fly a pink plane - funny, my favorite Spit9 has a sand desert paint scheme, that appears pink.
The horde won!
Boo
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So I tried a John Wayne flight. I was beginning to believe I was Nancyfied and needed to grow a pair of brass ones. Upped off a CV to defend a base under attack. There were 4 or 5 of us trying to break up an attack of 15-20 cons. I am neither a hero or a world class pilot but I can generally take care of my own. It was almost impossible to gain any alt, in the 5 minutes of flight I got hits on 4 different planes but only snap shots. It was much like shoving a hive of bees up your rear and swatting while running. Can't really run fast, can't sit still, unable to really concentrate long enough to make the kill.
How much skill it took to pull a John Wayne flight? I don't know, if I was better maybe I would have lasted 6 minutes. Maybe if I was briliant I would have lasted 7. Should I flatter myself into believing everyone else would have died after only 4? In any case, just plain old sucks.
I'll stick to my cartoon world of following Hartmann and crew about smart fights. If that means I should fly a pink plane - funny, my favorite Spit9 has a sand desert paint scheme, that appears pink.
The horde won!
Boo
Boo,
I'm no John Wayne, (nor do I want to be), but I do enjoy busting hordes, just ask the vguys. I can show you how to do it... I die alot too, but I can bag anywhere 3-6 kills before going down. The two things I can say are..
1) keep it fast (push for 400 mph)
2) if low, do reversals at the bnzing cons and pop them as the pull up in front of your nose. vAugering is well acquainted with this move ;)
if you want, I'd be happy to have you join me in my relentless loosing battle of taking on the horde.
At times it may be frustrating but the rush you get is quite intense as your battling 25 people at once. One last thing.. don't worry about dieing, because you probably won't make it home.
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Zoney~ no not flying as of now, I will be soon though, gotta finish off a move,back home.
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For the same reason he might get denied a kill because you chose a plane that turns better.
There are fast planes and slow planes. Planes that turn hard and planes that don’t. Cannon birds and ball round guns. Everything has its advantage and disadvantage. He goes faster, you turn better. My cannon has more hitting power, you have more rounds. My planes does better at high alt, yours does better at low alt. Rock paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. You chose your combination of abilities in the hangar and try to make the best of them in the arena while trying to prevent the enemy from being able to make the best use of his.
An intelligent pilot would try and maximized his particular advantages against you as much as possible, while denying the same to you.
If a fighter pilot ever allows his enemy anything even closely resembling a fair fight, then he’s doing it wrong.
Regards,
Wab
I agree 100% IF I was flying for my one and only life!
However this is a game. Years ago there were many cartoon pilots that would mix it up in any kind of plane and in most cases hand your butt to you. That was back when fighting was the way the game was played.
Today it's either no skilled hordlings, or guys who are after a long kill list, again going after the kill anyway they can, while avoid any chance they may get into a fight and so be shot down.
Today you see more and more of people flying fast planes and just picking, or vulching.
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If a fighter pilot ever allows his enemy anything even closely resembling a fair fight, then he’s doing it wrong.
Well said Wabbit. I sincerely agree. In the MA's it's a cage match, nothing and more nothing less. Expect the red guys to try to kill you at all times in a multitude of ways. Try to do it to them first. :aok
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Boo,
I'm no John Wayne, (nor do I want to be), but I do enjoy busting hordes, just ask the vguys. I can show you how to do it... I die alot too, but I can bag anywhere 3-6 kills before going down. The two things I can say are..
1) keep it fast (push for 400 mph)
2) if low, do reversals at the bnzing cons and pop them as the pull up in front of your nose. vAugering is well acquainted with this move ;)
if you want, I'd be happy to have you join me in my relentless loosing battle of taking on the horde.
At times it may be frustrating but the rush you get is quite intense as your battling 25 people at once. One last thing.. don't worry about dieing, because you probably won't make it home.
I'm in. Let's find a time to horde bust. I spent some time with a 109G-14 guru today learning the art of stall fighting. Pretty fun.
Boo
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Well said Wabbit. I sincerely agree. In the MA's it's a cage match, nothing and more nothing less. Expect the red guys to try to kill you at all times in a multitude of ways. Try to do it to them first. :aok
Waystin :salute, but I think there is a hole your analogy. It's not a cage. Imagine a cage fight with no cage and running away was allowed. Most fights would suck.
There is balance that those that design the cage try to achieve. Big enough to allow speed and footwork advantages to be a part of the fight, but small enough to force them to have to fight.
"running away" and "extending as part of the tactics in a fight" are are not really the same thing. Running away is never coming back to fight.
I've had this problem with 1oldcoot [yes I'm calling him out as repeat offender] a lot in the Ma. I'm 15k in P-39 looking for bombers and along comes a P-51D. I pretend I don't see him and he markes a move towards me, so I turn in at about 5K con range. He breaks off. I close to 3K turning the turns but it's not long before his 5 ENY ride is 4K, then 5K then 6K. There is no one else even in the sector! I'm the only fun in town and he's running away...from a P-39! Which can't out climb, out turn, out gun, or out dive him. This has happened several times with him. with me in various planes, so I don't think it's plane dependant. He simply won't engage anyone that sees him. This seems to be happenning more and more in the MA, which I think is the impetuous for this thread.
It's a game, not a cage match, not a war. It's played for fun. The fun of any game is the competition it provides. Respect for your opponent and THEIR fun is called sportsmanship and makes any and every game better, and more fun.
Excessive vulching, running, and ganging is just bad sportsmanship. People who think bad sportsmanship is a legitimate strategy for "winning" any game are...well...shame worthy. :salute
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well put Vink
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Respect for your opponent and THEIR fun is called sportsmanship and makes any and every game better, and more fun.
Excessive vulching, running, and ganging is just bad sportsmanship. People who think bad sportsmanship is a legitimate strategy for "winning" any game are...well...shame worthy. :salute
Vulching? Don't try and launch from a capped field. Problem solved.
Running? Fly a plane fast enough that no one can out run you. Problem solved.
Ganging? Don't blindly get yourself in an outnumbered situation with no line of retreat. Problem solved.
You are responsible for your own fun. Its no one elses concern.
Players are perfectly free to fly in any possible style, using any possible tactic, engage or disengage as they please, do anything whatsoever that is allowed by the software and consistent with the user agreement provided by HTC.
They are not, and never will be required to fly or fight the way you want them to. Period. Full stop.
Regards,
Wab
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Jeeze...you dont get it... If I can walk away and regain a superior tactical advantage that is what I and anyone that is smart will do. If your looking for planes to just lay down and allow you to shoot them go into the offline mode and shoot at the circle of non manuvering, slow and predictable planes. You'll be happy there. :bolt:
So everything equal you run. The only time you fight is if you have all the cards?
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[running away] seems to be happenning more and more in the MA
I have some rather industrial size doubts on that. The term 'runstang' has been in the vernacular for a long, long time.
Excessive vulching, running, and ganging is just bad sportsmanship.
What you call 'bad sportsmanship' I call 'maximum effort from my opponent' and it's what I expect. All three of those can be combatted by not upping at a capped field, flying a faster plane, and not flying into a red cloud. All choices you make when you enter flight.
It's a game, not a cage match, not a war. It's played for fun. The fun of any game is the competition it provides.
And a great deal of the people in game view that competition as side vs side, anything goes, kill the opponent by any means necessary. Based on what I've seen in the MA, the vast majority views it this way.
Is there an arena that we could get designated as 'clean fights only!' so you guys who want to pair off into your fair fights and have your rules respected could go and be happy without having to worry about the great unwashed masses ruining your happy fair fights? Please? So the arguing can stop? Seriously? Please? Is it worth putting in the wishlist forum? Maybe get some of you guys who want fair fights all the time with privileges to boot people who aren't fighting fair?
Wiley.
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Is there an arena that we could get designated as 'clean fights only!' so you guys who want to pair off into your fair fights and have your rules respected could go and be happy without having to worry about the great unwashed masses ruining your happy fair fights? Please? So the arguing can stop? Seriously? Please? Is it worth putting in the wishlist forum? Maybe get some of you guys who want fair fights all the time with privileges to boot people who aren't fighting fair?
Wiley.
Uhhmmm. You mean like the "Dueling Arena?"
:huh
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Uhhmmm. You mean like the "Dueling Arena?"
:huh
I would've thought that would be the perfect setting. For some reason it's not good enough, and people seem to want the MA to change to suit them.
Wiley.
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I would've thought that would be the perfect setting. For some reason it's not good enough, and people seem to want the MA to change to suit them.
Wiley.
LoL!
Well played, sir... Well played.
:salute,
Wab
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ahhhhhh......you just dont get it.......flying around in a hourd of green to pounce on one guy is fun??? vulching to get kills is fun???? Bringing 30~40 nme to 1 base is fun????? you know what screw it Im Done with you tards....buncha xbox wannabe's.....I so cant wait to get back and kill your tulips and your "hourds". im done with the idiocy of this thread.
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Vulching? Don't try and launch from a capped field. Problem solved.
Running? Fly a plane fast enough that no one can out run you. Problem solved.
Ganging? Don't blindly get yourself in an outnumbered situation with no line of retreat. Problem solved.
You are responsible for your own fun. Its no one elses concern.
Players are perfectly free to fly in any possible style, using any possible tactic, engage or disengage as they please, do anything whatsoever that is allowed by the software and consistent with the user agreement provided by HTC.
They are not, and never will be required to fly or fight the way you want them to. Period. Full stop.
Regards,
Wab
Players ar ARE perfectly free to play like bad sports. And many choose to. The game would be better for all if they didn't. People are free to ask them to try. To not play that way. I'll skip saying Period, end of story, blah, blah, blah
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Excessive vulching, running, and ganging is just bad sportsmanship. People who think bad sportsmanship is a legitimate strategy for "winning" any game are...well...shame worthy. :salute
Sportsmanship is something you practice when playing a sport. A sport is a game played with a set of specific rules and regulations.
Aces High has no rules, either formal or informal, dictating how to play. It is therefore not a sport, and thus "sportsmanship" does not apply. The game is what its players make of it, and while certain behaviors might offend or enrage you, don't expect others to agree. Shame them all you want, but don't expect the behavior to change if the game allows and rewards it.
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ahhhhhh......you just dont get it.......flying around in a hourd of green to pounce on one guy is fun??? vulching to get kills is fun???? Bringing 30~40 nme to 1 base is fun????? you know what screw it Im Done with you tards....buncha xbox wannabe's.....I so cant wait to get back and kill your tulips and your "hourds". im done with the idiocy of this thread.
LoL.
It may or may not be fun for me specifically.
What I am suggesting is, if getting vulched, ganged, or ran from annoys you, don't chose the behaviors that you should know by now will result in that outcome.
If you do chose it, then don't whine about what you knew was going to happen and don't expect others to change to suit you.
Buh bye.
:neener:,
Wab
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I agree 100% IF I was flying for my one and only life!
However this is a game. Years ago there were many cartoon pilots that would mix it up in any kind of plane and in most cases hand your butt to you. That was back when fighting was the way the game was played.
Today it's either no skilled hordlings, or guys who are after a long kill list, again going after the kill anyway they can, while avoid any chance they may get into a fight and so be shot down.
Today you see more and more of people flying fast planes and just picking, or vulching.
Your new nickname is "The General" because you over generalize everything.
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People are free to ask them to try. To not play that way.
And those people are as annoying as vegan PETA tards going around scolding people for eating ribeyes.
:rofl,
Wab
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ahhhhhh......you just dont get it.......
I get it just fine, Ink. You have a set of self-imposed limits on your behavior. For reasons I can't begin to understand you call people down who don't stick to those limits in their behavior in an arena with no limits.
It's the same as if I were to get uptight with people who turn both left AND right when they're fighting, when I only turn left (which is the correct and proper way to dogfight, I'm not an ambi-turner, y'know) I could be trying to shame people into only turning left when they fight all day long in the arenas, but it wouldn't make any sense.
flying around in a hourd of green to pounce on one guy is fun???
For me? Nope, but flying around in a group of green looking for a group of red sure is. Numbers imbalances happen going both ways. It's part of side vs side combat. The object of the MA is to push the other side around. Numbers is one of the easier and most successful ways to do that.
vulching to get kills is fun????
Sorta, it's necessary to take a base if the enemy keeps upping from it.
Bringing 30~40 nme to 1 base is fun?????
If there's 30~40 nme waiting over or near that base, yep. Aside from that though, do you know an easier way to take a base?
Wab:...Oh dear, I really wish you hadn't said that... 'People for the Ethical Treatment of Airplanes' is now stuck in my brain...
Wiley.
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Wab:...Oh dear, I really wish you hadn't said that... 'People for the Ethical Treatment of Airplanes' is now stuck in my brain...
Wiley.
OMG. :rofl
I'll go in halvzies if you want to print up some t-shirts for Fugitive, Vink, and Ink. ;)
Maybe on the back: "BnZ is Murder!"
:cool:,
Wab
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Maybe on the back: "BnZ is Murder!"
:cool:,
Wab
:rofl I wonder if they're going to start running around throwing FPO on people who don't agree with them...
Wiley.
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...............
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...............
I thought you were gone? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU)
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Wab:...Oh dear, I really wish you hadn't said that... 'People for the Ethical Treatment of Airplanes' is now stuck in my brain...
Wiley.
:rofl
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Today you see more and more of people flying fast planes and just picking, or vulching.
What is really fun, is when people flying fast "picking" planes, engage each other in a high-altitude fight. I live for those, and most of the time those are awesome/respectful engagements. You all know who you are! <S>
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I will throw this in as a for instance.I will pick one player who has been around a long time,and I've had the pleasure to be a squaddie of.You will find CorkyJr in the middle of a furball in his P-38g surrounded by enemy most of the time.Eventually a picker will get him and you will seldom hear a complaint from him.The guy with the good k/d jumps CorkyJr all by his lonesome,and gets his butt handed to him.k/d means nothing.Only the guys that want to attain that goal worry about such things.There are many players like CorkyJr.We play for fun,and thats what it's all about.I used to be a picker,and I found myself enjoying the game less and less.Plus I wasn't even a good picker,so it made it worse!!
I don't fly a lot anymore,but when I do,I try to have fun with my squaddies,and more power to however you want to fly,just have fun!
The Dawg
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more power to however you want to fly,just have fun!
The Dawg
Words of wisdom Dog! :salute
You and Corky obviously "Get it".
Fly the way you want. You are responsible for your own fun. Don't expect others to change how they play to suit you. If you predicate your fun on how other people decide to fly (which you will never have control of), then you will always be unhappy. You'll end up on the BBS, wailing and rending your garments, crying about how no one is "honorable" anymore. :rofl
:salute,
Wab
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wab~you drag me back in......I have always said I do not care how anyone flies, I have never cared when I get ganged, never whined about it, Im just telling you and anyone else that flies like a tard im gonna call it the way I see it.....im sure HTC had this kind of gameplay in his mind when he started this game........NOT.........you can run your yap all you want, cuz you know its the intardnet.....and you can say whatever you want....lol....ill see you in the air,if you respond and run your mouth I will be back, your not gonna talk trash and expect me to ignore you.
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wab~you drag me back in......I have always said I do not care how anyone flies, I have never cared when I get ganged, never whined about it, Im just telling you and anyone else that flies like a tard im gonna call it the way I see it.....im sure HTC had this kind of gameplay in his mind when he started this game........NOT.........you can run your yap all you want, cuz you know its the intardnet.....and you can say whatever you want....lol....ill see you in the air,if you respond and run your mouth I will be back, your not gonna talk trash and expect me to ignore you.
Ink we have so much in common :aok
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Im just telling you and anyone else that flies like a tard im gonna call it the way I see it.....
ink your a furball dude right?
furball until you die then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die, then up again and into the great furball until you die.........
see how that works. You and the rest of your furball buddies need to realize that there is an evolutionary process that lifts you up and out of the furball right....bottom feeders and all that :banana:
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wab~you drag me back in......
I knew I would. ;)
I have always said I do not care how anyone flies, I have never cared when I get ganged,
never whined about it, Im just telling you and anyone else that flies like a tard im gonna call it the way I see it....
That is whining about it.
But you were on the right track in the first half of your statement.
.im sure HTC had this kind of gameplay in his mind when he started this game........NOT.........
I'm quite certain HT always has intended there to be a wide variety of vulching, Bnz'ing, ganging, picking, furballing, running and all other forms of evil. Its his nature. :t
you can run your yap all you want, cuz you know its the intardnet.....and you can say whatever you want....lol....ill see you in the air,if you respond and run your mouth I will be back, your not gonna talk trash and expect me to ignore you.
My, you're getting yourself flustered.
You call that trash talk? LoL. I said nothing that wasn't good-natured ribbing.
And I will remind you that it was you earlier in the thread who was making moral judgements on other people's personal, real life "honor" based on how they fly a cartoon game. I wouldn't be so presumptous. I'm perfectly OK with however you want to fly and fight.
I wouldn't even question your "honor" because you disagree with me.
Regards,
Wab
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Yeager~ NO I am not a "furballer" in any shape of that word, that would entail that I like friendlies around me, which I do not, I am a "fighter". now as far as what you typed the differance is at least those who actually "fight" in a combat sim....are the ones "getting it"....running is not a "tactic" not engageing in combat in a combat game is fn lame, and if you have to bring 30 plus guys to take a base.....you know what, I have NEVER complained about being hourded, im just stressed the f out and need a smoke......otherwise I could give to craps about how anyone flies but me. Bone~I smell a setup? You fishin or being real? I cant tell in my state of mind..........arggggggg
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I cant tell in my state of mind..........arggggggg
Breath Ink.
"Serinity Now, Serinity Now, Serinity Now, Serinity Now, Serinity Now, Serinity Now..."
:neener:
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To quote the master:
...some 1 vs. 1 whine monkey's flying around in <insert favorite turny bird here> come across a <insert favorite E fighter here> Co-E/Co-Alt and call that an "even" fight. Not hardly...The E fighter must have an Alt/E advantage to convert into angles to match or overcome a more maneuverable plane with all other factors being equal. That is the essence of air combat between dissimilar aircraft. It's pretty easy to cruise around in <insert favorite turny bird here> and bemoan those that use E/Alt to kick your ass, but when's the last time you've heard a <insert favorite E fighter here> pilot cry because a <insert favorite turny bird here> pilot used his superior maneuverability to kick his ass? Answer: NEVER...
In all honesty, if I'm cruising around in A Hurricane or F6F I too pray to Jesus in heaven every E fig jock with an overinflated sense of himself will get tight with me. But, I sure as hell don't blame him when he doesn't, stays out of arms reach and tries to cherrypick me a new ass. It's what he should do, if he didn't do that I would assume he was a moron or new, which is almost always the case...If he isn't a moron or new and let me gain angles and kill his less maneuverable friend without trying to cherrypick me he should be shat upon, viscerated and fed to hungry lions.
And Zazen has other, far longer and more theoretical takes on it, but the above is a good paraphrase.
Of, if you like long posts:
Ok, one more time to bring in the New Year. The anti-pick sentiment is a pure contrivance of gaming. Purists of WWII combat aviation (most of us that hearken from the pre-2000 era of this genre) know that 90% of all Air to Air victories were scored by unseen enemy...IE: A Catastrophic failure of SA on the part of the victim. Virtually all tactical air combat dogma is predicated upon mutual support and the manipulation of position and energy to exploit an advantage. The mythology of the 1 vs. 1 hermetically chaste engagement is pure, unadulterated, gaming fiction. The only time it happened in WWII is if there was a massive bloodbath whereby wingmen had died and a single plane of an element accidentally became isolated or there was a massive and mutual failure of navigation whereby two opposing aircraft found themselves alone together, or if some gung-ho hotshot pilot disobeyed orders and went out alone in which case he would probably be court marshalled if by some miracle he was lucky enough to find a lone aircraft to engage and survived the engagement.
Combat aircraft after WWI were not designed to fight individually, in isolation from one another. Cooperative wingman, element, flight and squadron tactics evolved as a result of and were the inspiration for new aircraft design throughout all phases of the war. Post-WWI Air combat was never and will never be about the mythical single vs. single duel to the death. After the chivalric days of WWI and the very similar performing and armed aircraft which embodied the golden age of the tight turn radius the symphony of faster paced complex engagements prevailed. WWII and the technological maturation of aircraft design brought a much wider variety and disparity of plane characteristics, weapon packages, ballistics and design philosophies into play. The only thing they really had in common was the need for mutually supportive tactics for mutual security in complex engagements. The wide variety and disparity of aircraft characteristics meant the logical development of tactics specifically for the purpose of the systematic exploitation of the deficiencies of the enemy's aircraft while maximizing the advantages of one's own to maximum efficiency and effectiveness.
The AH MA is an even more extreme caricature of the real life match-up scenarios that occurred in WWII as all major country's dramatically dis-similar aircraft are represented and potentially involved in every complex engagement. This makes the tactical consideration of strength vs. weakness even more important. Most people I see complain about pickers are people that fly slow turny birds and choose to latch onto a single foe in single-minded 100% aggressive fixation. While I admire the aggressive spirit, that uncompromising, un-yielding mindset is ill-suited to multi-plane engagements, real or gamed. Air combat at its core is a delicate balance between offense and defense. Too defensive minded and you fail to kill, too offensive and you fail to live. I have just as little remorse for the one who is too conservative to kill as I do for the one that is too reckless to live.
Cherry picking as we describe it today is actually underrepresented as a form of dispatching foes in the game relative to real life. The reason being, we don't actually die in AH so people tend to do things no sane pilot in WWII would even consider. Also, your average 15+ year air combat game vet has thousands upon thousands of combat flight hours of experience, as opposed to the 100 or less your average WWII combat aviator may have had.
Personally, I have just as much respect for the AH pilot that can fly with surgical tactical precision as I do for the one that can fling his bird around like a rabid racoon on crack. To put oneself in a position to perfectly exploit an enemy's weaknesses while not revealing any of yours to be exploited in the same fashion is a thing of beauty, akin in essence to the flawless playing of a musical instrument.
Contrary to popular opinion, no successful tactical pilot ONLY cherry picks, it's impossible. One of two things will happen either of which denote a lack of success. 1) You'll fail to kill quickly enough to be worth consideration or 2) You'll over-commit in an effort to kill more time effectively and get killed in the process forced to mauneuver with an intrinsically more manueverable aircraft. The timing required against generally more maneuverable enemy, the minimal legitimate opportunities presented in an average engagement and the constant influx of new enemy that present an immediate threat make cherry-picking alone nonviable as a one-dimensional approach to air combat in AH. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
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im sure HTC had this kind of gameplay in his mind when he started this game........NOT........
Er... I've seen Hitech express his fondness for vulching multiple times. I also have seen a much bandied about quote from Hitech that paraphrased, says 'The object of the game is to piss the other side off.'
The MA is a side vs side vs side free for all. Whether you like it or not, the style of gameplay you hate is not prevented by game mechanics, and will therefore occur. Everybody flies according to their own set of morals, some with more limits put on them, some with less, but expecting a medal for it, or expecting others to follow your set of rules is flat out ridiculous, and frankly detracts from the game. If your opponents aren't free to do everything they can to beat you within the limits of the game it takes a lot of the flavor away from it.
not engageing in combat in a combat game is fn lame,
Yup. Defining all 'combat' as 'throwing yourself into every unwinnable scenario until you die' is limiting and boring. Imagine if everybody flew with no regard for their lives. Imagine if every ball of red you flew into had people who were willing to maneuver in such a way that you were certain to get a killshot on them, but were setting you up to be killed by the guy behind you, as opposed to them flying in such a way that they were actually trying to live when they drag you. Would take a lot of the fun out of it, wouldn't it?
Anaxagoras: ...it's... it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing such a well articulated set of posts.
Wiley.
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To quote the master:
Personally, I have just as much respect for the AH pilot that can fly with surgical tactical precision as I do for the one that can fling his bird around like a rabid racoon on crack. To put oneself in a position to perfectly exploit an enemy's weaknesses while not revealing any of yours to be exploited in the same fashion is a thing of beauty, akin in essence to the flawless playing of a musical instrument.
Those posts have a high intelligence density.
Zazen13 is my new hero. :aok
Now, if I could only hit the broad side of a barn, I'd be UNSTOPABLE! :O
:airplane:,
Wab
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So everything equal you run. The only time you fight is if you have all the cards?
Everything equal and its a different story. Why extend from a plane that can extend right with me. (stupid move)
If I see 10 cons coming in and I have kills on board, low fuel, ammo and missing parts I leave. I refuse to sit there stupidly waiting to provide an easy kill.
If I see 4 cons coming in at 15 k and im on the deck low and slow; I have departed and returned at the altitude of the fight. Hence regaining or atleast equaling the odds.
I have also gone to fields, solo, to get myself into a 5v1 and made it back alive with 5 kills. I have done this in a stuka, hurri C and 110g. Can't run so I have to fight. I just used these planes to the best of their ability and stupidly they tried to fight my fight and they lost.
The same argument for E managment can be said for planes that out climb others. Your still staying out of the other planes sweet spot to gain an advantage. Right! You just dont hear the whines about that I guess.
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I had a 10~15 minute fight with Steve in a 51 me in hurri great fight nether one of us got the kill eventually he just broke away, do I think he is a tard?? Hell no he gave it a shot and fought for a kill, I denied him that and he denied me the same, If I get picked its my fault, vulched...my fault, every time I die its MY fault.......every one pays there 15$ whatever, I think its funny the reasons some of you come up with for your lame game play...........and as far as hitech vulching, ive spoke my mind on vulching before and certainly not gonna change it because the guy who made the game thinks its cool, theres only one thing lamer then vulching (vulchin to get kills not take a base,there is a differance) that is following a guy missing his wing to the ground pumping rounds into them, since they changed the damage factor thats been done away with........lol whatever have fun.
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I think its funny the reasons some of you come up with for your lame game play...
I think it's odd that you define your style as the only 'non lame' gameplay and demand others fly as you do or face your laughter and taunts.
...and as far as hitech vulching, ive spoke my mind on vulching before and certainly not gonna change it because the guy who made the game thinks its cool,
erm... Yet you would've used it as a talking point if he agreed with you?
im sure HTC had this kind of gameplay in his mind when he started this game........NOT.........
It might be a good day to switch to decaf, Ink. I hope to see you back in the game one day, you're a fun opponent.
Wiley.
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Everything equal and its a different story. Why extend from a plane that can extend right with me. (stupid move)
If I see 10 cons coming in and I have kills on board, low fuel, ammo and missing parts I leave. I refuse to sit there stupidly waiting to provide an easy kill.
If I see 4 cons coming in at 15 k and im on the deck low and slow; I have departed and returned at the altitude of the fight. Hence regaining or atleast equaling the odds.
I have also gone to fields, solo, to get myself into a 5v1 and made it back alive with 5 kills. I have done this in a stuka, hurri C and 110g. Can't run so I have to fight. I just used these planes to the best of their ability and stupidly they tried to fight my fight and they lost.
The same argument for E managment can be said for planes that out climb others. Your still staying out of the other planes sweet spot to gain an advantage. Right! You just dont hear the whines about that I guess.
Hmm so for you to attack you have to have all the cards... leave nothing to chance?
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I think its funny the reasons some of you come up with for your lame game play...................lol whatever have fun.
See thats the thing. You have this attitude about lameness and how you attach it to others whos approach to the game you detest. Look at people like myself who are totally good with every type of player.
I love them all:
Furballers (I can do that),
HO'ers (I can do that),
ZoomBoomers (I can do that),
GV'ers (I can do that),
Strat bombers (I can do that),
Toolshedders (I can do that),
Late night Milkers (I can do that)
Lanc Dive Bombers (I can do that),
Suicide CV killers (I can do that),
All these things are fun in their own way and I do not hold any grudge against anyone for playing the game however the hell they want. I just try to enjoy my time in game without getting whiny, pissy, and becoming disrespectful of others. The main reason I stopped playing LW is because the game seemed to become so overrun with smack talk and smack behavior that it really seemed to degenerate into a smack chatroom rather than a HIGH QUALITY WW2 combat game. MW is far better suited to reasonable respectful gameplay, in my experience at least.
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Hmm so for you to attack you have to have all the cards... leave nothing to chance?
I cant stand that low risk approach, you can call that flying timid. Just not my style and not enough time to wait out the perfect setup.
I welcome someone to have all the cards, as of late its what you have to do to get them to bite and fight.
Play like your low and unaware until you get them to commit in a fight, its fun to over come that attack and beat them.
What I dont like and what you tend to see alot is players will either run away and avoid any risk even when co alt, fear of losing those cards, or the noob that will just Ho attempt first pass co alt and then abruptly get his one way ticket punched for the tower.
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Hmm so for you to attack you have to have all the cards... leave nothing to chance?
lol, I don't understand how people find this fun.... no risk means no rush, and no rush means no fun.
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Hmm so for you to attack you have to have all the cards... leave nothing to chance?
Shuff...so far this tour you have 331 kills flying P38s in MW. 319 in 38Js and another 12 in 38Gs
It is safe to say that your primary ride in MW is the superb P-38J.
You have a total of 43 deaths between the two P38 types that puts your P38 K/D at a very respectful 7.69. This is really damned fine work. Your playing style in MW is very smart, very intelligent and you rarely put yourself at serious risk of being shot down (smart flying). Hence the high K/D. Is the above assessment accurate?
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lol, I don't understand how people find this fun.... no risk means no rush, and no rush means no fun.
there at times, for me at least, where simply surviving is a rush. When I should have died half a dozen times but still managed to taxi in and tower out (sometimes in and of itself a challenge). For me, and considering the high quality of some of my adversaries, just surviving is a satisfying experience. I don't expect everyone to understand, but it would be cool if people could at least refrain from the insults.
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Your new nickname is "The General" because you over generalize everything.
What's wrong with generalizing, if I listed specifics it would be a friggin book!
I don't see what so wrong here. I come into a COMBAT game expecting to have COMBAT. Instead I chase a con for 5 miles and say screw this turn around only to see the con come back. As I turn to re-engage him does he continue to come in? Nope he turns and or dives away....no COMBAT there.
Lets find the biggest red dar bar and go there !!! Sure it's not the smartest thing to dive into 5 to 1 odds but there are targets! So we got to the biggest dar to find its horde attacking a base. You slip in behind a red guy and throw a shot over his shoulder but he doesn't turn, nothing, he has a mission and by god he's going to complete it !! He dives in and like half the guys who do the same run hits the ground a half second AFTER his bombs do.....no COMBAT there.
Of the other half, well they have a mission to and like the other lemmings nothing can turn them asside from it. They will continue to loop firering at which ever ground target they missed with the bombs, or kill ack until they crash, ack gets them, or they become the next one on the "wack a mole" list.... no COMBAT there.
Say you circle, of survive the first rush, the second wing comes in. This is made up of the first group that they were the quickest to show their "lawndart" skills, or the "hot guns" of these horde squads. These are the guys that will either circle while the lemmings do the dieing taking most of the few defenders with them making it safe for them to come down and vulch the field. Oh they are helping the horde by "suppressing" the uppers, so they are NOT vulching easy kills for nothing. These are those looking to add to their awesomeness by beefing up their kill count and well as their K/D and K/PH. These guys have pretty good SA as there skill isn't good enough to save them so they get out of dodge when they start spotting the high cons coming in (because the FHs are down so the defenders have to come from afar, so they have some alt) after all if you die it really messes up your numbers.... no COMBAT there.
The other vulchers are the lemmings in the these squads, the ones that do the dirty work. When they get back after either lawndarting, or dieing to clear the ack, they get in on the vulch. So much so you can start pinging their plane as the dive in and instead of braking off they will continue to dive the runway hoping to get one more kill before you finish sawing their wing off.... no COMBAT there.
So now you finally get over whelmed by their numbers, or the vulch is on, or 10 of them got lucky and took out the FHs :rolleyes: You up at a near-by base and high tail it back. Most of the time you get there as the base is captured, after all even 30-40 guys can get troops in sometimes. So you have the choice, dive in and vulch them as they land ( no skill and no COMBAT there) or circle to wait for A. a counter attack to take the base back, or B. the red guys to launch a new mission. Well "A" almost never happens, though if a few people tried it you could steal them back pretty easy because "B" the red guys don't defend nor do they up there because they are off looking for the next quite spot they can grab a base from..... no COMBAT there.
This is how I see the game going every time I log in. Titanic Tuesdays are worst due to the "Attack hordes" numbers being higher. Sure if I wanted to play "wack a mole", or "pick the lemming" all night I could be very busy, but wheres the COMBAT? Someone mentioned Zazen above. Zazen doesn't play much any more. Check back to tour 40, he had like 80 hours that tour, over the last year I don't think he's had 80 hours total. Why? Maybe because the game has lost that COMBAT he enjoyed, after all he is in the Army of Muppets, a Dog Fighting squad. He's also a member of the "Dog Fighters Club". Maybe he doesn't have fun wacking moles, or picking lemmings because it takes no skill and is there fore boring.
You guys come on here and defend your game playing style, saying it's my $15 and I don't have to play "your" way. Well I for one am NOT telling you to play "my" way....my aim is so bad that if you did nobody would get shot down :neener: All I'm asking is to put a little COMBAT in your game. Look at it this way, with COMBAT in your game it's like a bull fight. The bull fighter dodges and turns, sticking those swords into the bull wearing him down until finally the bull dies, OR, he screws up and the bull kills him. :D Todays player jump in the ring and as the bull charges they whip out an elephant gun and give him a blast right between the horns! Fights over, no COMBAT there.
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where is the "right over your head smiley"?????????
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What's wrong with generalizing, if I listed specifics it would be a friggin book!
Fug,
I have an honest question that has no hidden agenda. I'm curious why you don't spend your time at the Furball Lake in the DA?
Honestly. There are time I like flying there too and it seem just what you and others want. Its nothing but all furball, all the time. Its 100% combat with no thinking required. The fields are close and uncaptureable. The action is constant. No bombing. No captures. Why is THAT not exactly what you want? Is it because you are scared of the perk planes?
Wab
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no hidden agenda???".....mindless furball..." you say, what the "war" takes thinking? I would argue the "WAR" in far more mindless, that is far more doing the same thing over and over, every "dogfight" is differant especially when its you VS many.
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Note: The following response will be sarcastic.......
What I want is a whole lot more people who are not playing to tell me how I should be playing because I can't possibly be having any fun unless I am playing the way they would play if they were playing and maybe throw in some more insults so you can feel better about yourself not playing and then tell me how you are going to own everyone when you return if they would just play the way you play even though you aren't actually playing.
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Sportsmanship is something you practice when playing a sport. A sport is a game played with a set of specific rules and regulations.
Aces High has no rules, either formal or informal, dictating how to play. It is therefore not a sport, and thus "sportsmanship" does not apply. The game is what its players make of it, and while certain behaviors might offend or enrage you, don't expect others to agree. Shame them all you want, but don't expect the behavior to change if the game allows and rewards it.
Your definition are arbitrary, and thus as rational for why sportsmanship doesn't apply to AH, are not a very good case.
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Fug,
I have an honest question that has no hidden agenda. I'm curious why you don't spend your time at the Furball Lake in the DA?
Honestly. There are time I like flying there too and it seem just what you and others want. Its nothing but all furball, all the time. Its 100% combat with no thinking required. The fields are close and uncaptureable. The action is constant. No bombing. No captures. Why is THAT not exactly what you want? Is it because you are scared of the perk planes?
Wab
I'm a fighter, not a mindless dolt diving in and out of a mass of planes dodging pick tards.
I think this is where some of you get lost in this. COMBAT is not furball lake. COMBAT is a couple of fighters working each other over, maybe even 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, like that fight Ink had with Steve. Combat is a mission where an attack plan is laid out using your force effectively with out using a nuke to get the job done. COMBAT is when GVs fire on each other and the spawn point of either force is a two minute drive away. COMBAT is buffs coming in at alt with an escort that is needed because defenders attack them. COMBAT is when your initial attack fails you think on your feet and put plan "B" into motion and keep the pressure on.
FURBALL lake is a pick fest, either your low and picking, or high and picking, but it's still a pick fest. Dueling is tricks. Pick the right ammo load, fuel load, time your turn better than the other guy and you have the advantage, then it's pushing him into your shot.
COMBAT is more fluid with different avenues to take. One time I might be fuel heavy with a high spit diving on me, the next I might be low fuel. Both conditions dictate a different fight. The tallying up the conditions to figure out how your going to fight that particular fight is part of the thrill of the fight. "With my plane this heavy will I be able to rope this guy?", "I only have 50 rounds left, will it be enough to finish this guy?"
The same goes for missions. "Did we bring enough heavy fighters?" "Are the fighter we have with us good enough to hold them off while we capture?" "Should we have GV with us to clear the town?" all of these things are elements of the plans that COMBAT brings. Right now with 40 guys hitting one base at a time YES they have enough heavys, YES they have enough fighter to hold off the enemy, they don't have to be good they have over whelming numbers. There is no more thought put into the game by anyone. Fighters HO while spraying, GVs camp, buffs dive bomb and bail, missions are 30-40 guys rolling a base, or if they don't get it first shot, them move to the other side of the map for a new attempt at the same plan. Everyone up heavy, flatten the town, vulch the field until we get one of the many goons in :rolleyes:
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no hidden agenda???".....mindless furball..." you say, what the "war" takes thinking? I would argue the "WAR" in far more mindless, that is far more doing the same thing over and over, every "dogfight" is differant especially when its you VS many.
Hey Ink I thought you were done with this idiocy. You sure take a long time to say goodbye. :lol
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Hmm so for you to attack you have to have all the cards... leave nothing to chance?
Um what part of I got 5 kills in one sortie (air to air) in a stuka did you not understand? What part of I got 5 kills in one sortie in a hurricane (air to air) did you not understand. What part of I got 5 kills in a 110g (air to air) did you not understand? Maybe I left out...I was not in vulch mode (no where near a base), I was alone and nobody to run to. I was also in an inferior ride to the p51's 109's and 190's that I shot down.
Anything that you have to say is obvoiusly a troll so take you whines and run with them.
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What's wrong with generalizing, if I listed specifics it would be a friggin book!
I don't see what so wrong here. I come into a COMBAT game expecting to have COMBAT. Instead I chase a con for 5 miles and say screw this turn around only to see the con come back. As I turn to re-engage him does he continue to come in? Nope he turns and or dives away....no COMBAT there.
Lets find the biggest red dar bar and go there !!! Sure it's not the smartest thing to dive into 5 to 1 odds but there are targets! So we got to the biggest dar to find its horde attacking a base. You slip in behind a red guy and throw a shot over his shoulder but he doesn't turn, nothing, he has a mission and by god he's going to complete it !! He dives in and like half the guys who do the same run hits the ground a half second AFTER his bombs do.....no COMBAT there.
Of the other half, well they have a mission to and like the other lemmings nothing can turn them asside from it. They will continue to loop firering at which ever ground target they missed with the bombs, or kill ack until they crash, ack gets them, or they become the next one on the "wack a mole" list.... no COMBAT there.
Say you circle, of survive the first rush, the second wing comes in. This is made up of the first group that they were the quickest to show their "lawndart" skills, or the "hot guns" of these horde squads. These are the guys that will either circle while the lemmings do the dieing taking most of the few defenders with them making it safe for them to come down and vulch the field. Oh they are helping the horde by "suppressing" the uppers, so they are NOT vulching easy kills for nothing. These are those looking to add to their awesomeness by beefing up their kill count and well as their K/D and K/PH. These guys have pretty good SA as there skill isn't good enough to save them so they get out of dodge when they start spotting the high cons coming in (because the FHs are down so the defenders have to come from afar, so they have some alt) after all if you die it really messes up your numbers.... no COMBAT there.
The other vulchers are the lemmings in the these squads, the ones that do the dirty work. When they get back after either lawndarting, or dieing to clear the ack, they get in on the vulch. So much so you can start pinging their plane as the dive in and instead of braking off they will continue to dive the runway hoping to get one more kill before you finish sawing their wing off.... no COMBAT there.
So now you finally get over whelmed by their numbers, or the vulch is on, or 10 of them got lucky and took out the FHs :rolleyes: You up at a near-by base and high tail it back. Most of the time you get there as the base is captured, after all even 30-40 guys can get troops in sometimes. So you have the choice, dive in and vulch them as they land ( no skill and no COMBAT there) or circle to wait for A. a counter attack to take the base back, or B. the red guys to launch a new mission. Well "A" almost never happens, though if a few people tried it you could steal them back pretty easy because "B" the red guys don't defend nor do they up there because they are off looking for the next quite spot they can grab a base from..... no COMBAT there.
This is how I see the game going every time I log in. Titanic Tuesdays are worst due to the "Attack hordes" numbers being higher. Sure if I wanted to play "wack a mole", or "pick the lemming" all night I could be very busy, but wheres the COMBAT? Someone mentioned Zazen above. Zazen doesn't play much any more. Check back to tour 40, he had like 80 hours that tour, over the last year I don't think he's had 80 hours total. Why? Maybe because the game has lost that COMBAT he enjoyed, after all he is in the Army of Muppets, a Dog Fighting squad. He's also a member of the "Dog Fighters Club". Maybe he doesn't have fun wacking moles, or picking lemmings because it takes no skill and is there fore boring.
You guys come on here and defend your game playing style, saying it's my $15 and I don't have to play "your" way. Well I for one am NOT telling you to play "my" way....my aim is so bad that if you did nobody would get shot down :neener: All I'm asking is to put a little COMBAT in your game. Look at it this way, with COMBAT in your game it's like a bull fight. The bull fighter dodges and turns, sticking those swords into the bull wearing him down until finally the bull dies, OR, he screws up and the bull kills him. :D Todays player jump in the ring and as the bull charges they whip out an elephant gun and give him a blast right between the horns! Fights over, no COMBAT there.
I put this together for the kids................... Thats just too much for them to read. :devil
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/wherethebeef-1.jpg)
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/wHEREISTHEBEEF2-1.jpg)
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I'm a fighter, not a mindless dolt diving in and out of a mass of planes dodging pick tards.
...
FURBALL lake is a pick fest, either your low and picking, or high and picking, but it's still a pick fest. Dueling is tricks. Pick the right ammo load, fuel load, time your turn better than the other guy and you have the advantage, then it's pushing him into your shot.
..
. Everyone up heavy, flatten the town, vulch the field until we get one of the many goons in :rolleyes:
LoL. All I can say is you are HIGH maintenance. :lol Guys in the MA don't fly the way you want them to, guys at the furball lake don't fly the way you want them too, guys on missions don't fly the way you want them to.... :rolleyes:
I don't see anything more to add to this conversation. I just reread those Zazen13 quotes again and they so perfectly frame the issue that there isn't really anything to add to them.
I suggest you reread them again too, just on the off chance something might click in your head.
Oh and Ink, we'll look into getting you that t-shirt. :)
:aok,
Wab
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wab~ bla ba bla.....chump
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What's wrong with generalizing, if I listed specifics it would be a friggin book!
I don't see what so wrong here. I come into a COMBAT game expecting to have COMBAT. Instead I chase a con for 5 miles and say screw this turn around only to see the con come back. As I turn to re-engage him does he continue to come in? Nope he turns and or dives away....no COMBAT there.
Why would you chase a con for more than 30 seconds if he is faster and clearly is not going to fight? That's just dumb.
Lets find the biggest red dar bar and go there !!! Sure it's not the smartest thing to dive into 5 to 1 odds but there are targets! So we got to the biggest dar to find its horde attacking a base. You slip in behind a red guy and throw a shot over his shoulder but he doesn't turn, nothing, he has a mission and by god he's going to complete it !! He dives in and like half the guys who do the same run hits the ground a half second AFTER his bombs do.....no COMBAT there.
Not true. Killing the con is combat. If he is too much of a nimwit to evade then it's an easy kill. Side Note: What are you looking for exactly anyways, you probably outclass the majority of the players in the game in the skill department. If they all fought your fight you'd hardly ever lose, they'd get their tulips handed to them consistently and you would have the most fun. Seems like a great situation for you. Them? Not so much.
So now you finally get over whelmed by their numbers, or the vulch is on, or 10 of them got lucky and took out the FHs :rolleyes: You up at a near-by base and high tail it back. Most of the time you get there as the base is captured, after all even 30-40 guys can get troops in sometimes. So you have the choice, dive in and vulch them as they land ( no skill and no COMBAT there) or circle to wait for A. a counter attack to take the base back, or B. the red guys to launch a new mission. Well "A" almost never happens, though if a few people tried it you could steal them back pretty easy because "B" the red guys don't defend nor do they up there because they are off looking for the next quite spot they can grab a base from..... no COMBAT there.
Or Option C. Go to the DA.
This is how I see the game going every time I log in. Titanic Tuesdays are worst due to the "Attack hordes" numbers being higher. Sure if I wanted to play "wack a mole", or "pick the lemming" all night I could be very busy, but wheres the COMBAT? Someone mentioned Zazen above. Zazen doesn't play much any more. Check back to tour 40, he had like 80 hours that tour, over the last year I don't think he's had 80 hours total. Why? Maybe because the game has lost that COMBAT he enjoyed, after all he is in the Army of Muppets, a Dog Fighting squad. He's also a member of the "Dog Fighters Club". Maybe he doesn't have fun wacking moles, or picking lemmings because it takes no skill and is there fore boring.
I'm fairly certain the main reason Zazen doesn't play much anymore has nothing to do with your over dramatic description of the fall of aces high.
You guys come on here and defend your game playing style, saying it's my $15 and I don't have to play "your" way. Well I for one am NOT telling you to play "my" way....my aim is so bad that if you did nobody would get shot down :neener: All I'm asking is to put a little COMBAT in your game. Look at it this way, with COMBAT in your game it's like a bull fight. The bull fighter dodges and turns, sticking those swords into the bull wearing him down until finally the bull dies, OR, he screws up and the bull kills him. :D Todays player jump in the ring and as the bull charges they whip out an elephant gun and give him a blast right between the horns! Fights over, no COMBAT there.
The game will never be as great as it once was when all the gods descended upon it at one single moment in aces high history to create eutopian furballs, an arena based purely on COMBAT, basically doing everything players are doing now except a million times better because they are gods and gods are better than xbox players. Look Fugi, the gods have ascended, the game is left with mere mortals now. How can mortals ever live up to the definition of combat that was laid out by the great gods of aces high? It is an impossible standard to achieve. We are all going to cartoon hell for our sins.
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To quote the master:
And Zazen has other, far longer and more theoretical takes on it, but the above is a good paraphrase.
Of, if you like long posts:
Nothing against old Zazen, but since when did he become the master. He's as fulluvit as I am :)
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do yourself a HUGE favor sir. DON'T LOOK AT SCORE. Play the game to have fun everything else will fall into place
Interesting statement from a person that tried to humiliate me on 200 because of my score. I don't give a rats-six about my score and, as such, my flying usually reflects my disregard :)
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I find the best pilots have K.D's that sit at about 2.0 or 3.0.
Because to me that shows that this is someone who is not a noob, but jumps into fights wherever he can and gets out ahead. My KD, usually sits around 2.5 so I can hold my own against the pro's and dominate most "average to above average" pilots in the game in a lone combat. But It doesnt stop me from "pulling a leroy" by diving into 20 to 1 odds.
At least thats how I see it.
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The game will never be as great as it once was when all the gods descended upon it at one single moment in aces high history to create eutopian furballs, an arena based purely on COMBAT, basically doing everything players are doing now except a million times better because they are gods and gods are better than xbox players. Look Fugi, the gods have ascended, the game is left with mere mortals now. How can mortals ever live up to the definition of combat that was laid out by the great gods of aces high? It is an impossible standard to achieve. We are all going to cartoon hell for our sins.
I think nostalgia clouds many memories of the "good old days." I remember plenty of ganging, BnZing, and definitely HOing (the C-Hog was notorious for that) back in 2000. Wasn't the record for most consecutive kills without dying set back in those days? How could it have been if people weren't flying to live?
The fights seemed more abundant because there were fewer bases somewhat closer together, so the flight time to action was a lot shorter than before HTC introduced the larger maps. Beyond that, everything "bad" that goes on today went on back then but with smaller numbers and smaller maps. The fights might have been a lot more personal, but it was hardly the chivalric furballing paradise some suggest.
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LoL. All I can say is you are HIGH maintenance. :lol Guys in the MA don't fly the way you want them to, guys at the furball lake don't fly the way you want them too, guys on missions don't fly the way you want them to.... :rolleyes:
I don't see anything more to add to this conversation. I just reread those Zazen13 quotes again and they so perfectly frame the issue that there isn't really anything to add to them.
I suggest you reread them again too, just on the off chance something might click in your head.
Oh and Ink, we'll look into getting you that t-shirt. :)
:aok,
Wab
Wow!!! You just don't get it, I'm not high maintenance at all. I just want one little thing, I want people to FIGHT thats it. Don't horde, don't hide, just fight.
Why would you chase a con for more than 30 seconds if he is faster and clearly is not going to fight? That's just dumb.
I give them an extra 20 seconds or so just because I'm looking for the 1 vs 1 that much more.
Not true. Killing the con is combat. If he is too much of a nimwit to evade then it's an easy kill. Side Note: What are you looking for exactly anyways, you probably outclass the majority of the players in the game in the skill department. If they all fought your fight you'd hardly ever lose, they'd get their tulips handed to them consistently and you would have the most fun. Seems like a great situation for you. Them? Not so much.
Well I'm glad you think so highly of my skill :aok all I'm looking for is a fight. Picking a nimwit isn't a fight, it's just clubbing the next baby seal. I want the lemmings to learn how to fight and then fight. If most of these guys spent have their time playing learning they would out class me and I'd have plenty of fights!
Or Option C. Go to the DA.
Like I said, DA is just timing and tricks.
I'm fairly certain the main reason Zazen doesn't play much anymore has nothing to do with your over dramatic description of the fall of aces high.
We won't know unless he stops by and lets us know, but it isn't to much of a stretch to think that the reasons I "Suggested" might be true.
The game will never be as great as it once was when all the gods descended upon it at one single moment in aces high history to create eutopian furballs, an arena based purely on COMBAT, basically doing everything players are doing now except a million times better because they are gods and gods are better than xbox players. Look Fugi, the gods have ascended, the game is left with mere mortals now. How can mortals ever live up to the definition of combat that was laid out by the great gods of aces high? It is an impossible standard to achieve. We are all going to cartoon hell for our sins.
It's true that the "skilled" players of today are no where near as good as the players of old, especially if you consider me "probably outclass the majority of the players in the game in the skill department", but that doesn't mean that the game play has to suffer. We have more people playing now so it would stand to reason the if the ratio stayed the same that there should be a pretty good size group of players that should be "God like", even the average players should be much better than they are. Nobody puts in the time to learn to fight anymore, they are too busy following the horde trying to impress their <snicker,snicker> leaders.
Interesting statement from a person that tried to humiliate me on 200 because of my score. I don't give a rats-six about my score and, as such, my flying usually reflects my disregard :)
HEY, HEY, HEY !! This is the "kick Fugi" thread! Lets not diffuse the hate by directing at others here! :D
I think nostalgia clouds many memories of the "good old days." I remember plenty of ganging, BnZing, and definitely HOing (the C-Hog was notorious for that) back in 2000. Wasn't the record for most consecutive kills without dying set back in those days? How could it have been if people weren't flying to live?
The fights seemed more abundant because there were fewer bases somewhat closer together, so the flight time to action was a lot shorter than before HTC introduced the larger maps. Beyond that, everything "bad" that goes on today went on back then but with smaller numbers and smaller maps. The fights might have been a lot more personal, but it was hardly the chivalric furballing paradise some suggest.
Sure there was HOin and ganging (tho the gangs were smaller, I remember a film of Wldthing taking on a gang of 7, and killing them all :D ), but I thing the kill streak was due to skill not so much timid flying.
The map idea doesn't hold water. We still have the maps Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, and the "Uterus". These are the old small maps we played on, they didn't change them, moving bases farther away. Today we have the horde, in the old days we had squads that fought each other. Instead of the squads grouping together into a horde they would have 5 fights going all along the front. You had a choice of the type of fights you wanted defending the sneak, defending the big squad attack , attacking with a small group, attacking with a large mission and so on. Remember, small groups were 4-6, and large were 8-12 per side. COMBAT was all over the map!
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Sure there was HOin and ganging (tho the gangs were smaller, I remember a film of Wldthing taking on a gang of 7, and killing them all :D ), but I thing the kill streak was due to skill not so much timid flying.
The gangs were smaller because the game population was significantly smaller, particularly back in 2000-2001. More players means larger furballs. You can't reasonably expect the same size furballs when the game has four times as many people online during peak times now.
Also, any incredibly long kill streak possesses elements of skill, luck, and timidity. I believe it was Fishu who had something like 360+ kills in a beta tour flying an A8, and even he said it was more discipline than skill. It also helped that he had a much smaller pool of potential planes to fly against; back then the A8 was one of the faster planes available, and it was close to the most lethal.
The map idea doesn't hold water. We still have the maps Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, and the "Uterus". These are the old small maps we played on, they didn't change them, moving bases farther away. Today we have the horde, in the old days we had squads that fought each other. Instead of the squads grouping together into a horde they would have 5 fights going all along the front. You had a choice of the type of fights you wanted defending the sneak, defending the big squad attack , attacking with a small group, attacking with a large mission and so on. Remember, small groups were 4-6, and large were 8-12 per side. COMBAT was all over the map!
I recall significantly smaller maps before Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, or any of that stuff -- beta stuff that they haven't revisited in over a decade. The fights were just as crazy and inconsiderate back then as when I stopped playing about four years ago. The difference is degree.
Go to the forum search engine and look up the terms "horde gang gangbang" from about 1500 days to 9999 days ago. There are four pages of threads from 1999 to 2001 where people whine and moan about being ganged, about the decline of skill in the game, etc etc. So basically, it's the same stuff we see now.
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Fugi,
You do make some interesting points. In a way, AH is a victim of its own success. With so many players and a constant influx of fresh blood, the average skill level is rather low. Didn't snailman demonstrate that the median K/D is something like .5? Now, I know score matters little, but even the most reckless pilots who know a thing or two manage more than that. Basically, there's a small cache of pilots who dominate the air-to-air part of the game, and the large majority are their targets.
Personally, I find the main arena rather boring. I prefer events like FSO and scenarios, but I can also appreciate getting my bellybutton kicked by someone like batfink in the DA (not the pond). There is a lot to learn by constantly dying to the best. However, the culture of the main arena is hardly going to encourage someone to take more risks. Screw up in a fight and see your name posted here with "OWNED" in the thread title. Or someone wants to fly the P-51, ("because it has 50cals and doesn't afraid of anything" :lol) learns that it's best to keep it fast, and gets berated with all sorts of insults when they don't provide the fight some vet wants. I mean, is this how we really expect to cause improvement? Just read this thread. I'd almost say it reminds me of bickering high school kids, but then that's unfair to high school kids because they're far more artful at persuasion.
There's a big maturity gap in the AH culture, and until we see people treat each other with a lot more respect, it's not going to be the kind of environment that supports experimentation and learning. Other flight sim communities are different. I've seen some nasty bickering at the 1C forums and RoF forums where these gear-heads and other fanatics get real hot and bothered over how much power an engine produced at 20,000ft, but I've never seen so much nastiness over flying habits.
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General Fugitive, you have what I like to call The "Good Old Days" Syndrome. It is a neurological disorder where one thinks that identical past experiences were superior to the same current experiences. Treatments include hypnosis, a visit to the Dr. Phil show, or in extreme cases, shock therapy. Consult your physician. :aok
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It matters not if you get 352 kills without dying, if you strike fear in the hearts of noobs in the virtual sky, fly dora the beguiler very quickly hither and yon, mithicly flip turn your vaunted twin tailed devil...
in spite of anything you do or do not do in this game...
you are dweebs.
every last one of you.
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I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment
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I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment
I always thought it relatively easy to grab a little turnburner, find a gaggle, kill 4-5 noobs, and THEN gett whacked.
Rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat. Wala! great K/S.
It seemed very easy to do. As long as the getting whacked part didnt get old.
Bottom line: There is a game in AH for every player and a unique result that each one seeks. The trick is for us to stop being juvinile tulips to each other, insisting that every other player lacks brains because they do not see it, or play it the way we do.
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General Fugitive, you have what I like to call The "Good Old Days" Syndrome. It is a neurological disorder where one thinks that identical past experiences were superior to the same current experiences. Treatments include hypnosis, a visit to the Dr. Phil show, or in extreme cases, shock therapy. Consult your physician. :aok
:rofl thats wrong :lol
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Shuff...so far this tour you have 331 kills flying P38s in MW. 319 in 38Js and another 12 in 38Gs
It is safe to say that your primary ride in MW is the superb P-38J.
You have a total of 43 deaths between the two P38 types that puts your P38 K/D at a very respectful 7.69. This is really damned fine work. Your playing style in MW is very smart, very intelligent and you rarely put yourself at serious risk of being shot down (smart flying). Hence the high K/D. Is the above assessment accurate?
That info does not tell you how I fly at all.
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Um what part of I got 5 kills in one sortie (air to air) in a stuka did you not understand? What part of I got 5 kills in one sortie in a hurricane (air to air) did you not understand. What part of I got 5 kills in a 110g (air to air) did you not understand? Maybe I left out...I was not in vulch mode (no where near a base), I was alone and nobody to run to. I was also in an inferior ride to the p51's 109's and 190's that I shot down.
Anything that you have to say is obvoiusly a troll so take you whines and run with them.
You added that later. So your saying if you have any kills and do not hold all the cards your running of actually going to fight?
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It matters not if you get 352 kills without dying, if you strike fear in the hearts of noobs in the virtual sky, fly dora the beguiler very quickly hither and yon, mithicly flip turn your vaunted twin tailed devil...
in spite of anything you do or do not do in this game...
you are dweebs.
every last one of you.
haha exactly
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I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment
I've seen many spawn on runway and tower. To go to a different field. I've done the same many times. I never think about it affecting ones score or stats.
I think they need a stat on fun. Nothing else much matters.
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The best sticks are the guys who have fun every time up and give any and all comers a fight regardless of the odds :)
You can talk numbers all you want, but there are too many other things that go into it as well. In the end as long as you are having fun, who the heck cares.
One of the things you notice if you last long enough is there are waves of the latest and greatest cartoon fighter pilots. They come in, work their tails off to be the bestest, tell everyone about it, burn out and move on. Those that stick around figure out sooner then later it's gotta remain fun, or they burn out too.
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..... Those that stick around figure out sooner then later it's gotta remain fun, or they burn out too.
This should be in another thread, this sounds more like the true definition of burnout is because you have to "ignore all the lame stuff and play your own way because we all know hitech wont do anything about it but promote even more lame play". :neener:
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That's the boat I'm looking to climb into now. Very few want to fight any more so my only real option is to HO everything in site, get in on the vulches learn to get the pick down better.
After all it's how the game is supposed to be play, right?
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After all it's how the game is supposed to be play, right?
Its clear, you play the game ANYWAY you deem fit and within what the game allows no matter how jacked up it will be. Period.
Manipulate an already manipulable scoring system(which doesnt mean anything :headscratch:), avoid all the combat you can avoid, join a multiple wing squadron and rule da planetz in a gigantic horde, 50 to 4 ratio is very acceptable, lets not even mention how jacked up the ENY system is and also does little to prevent the wow crowd..... so yes, ignore all that you know could be improved or that should be improved and let the lameness flow.... and have fun! :joystick:
:rofl
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You can talk numbers all you want, but there are too many other things that go into it as well. In the end as long as you are having fun, who the heck cares.
I have to agree with Guppy35 quite a bit about the above quote.
Back in TOD 97 (Late War) I had a Fighter K/D of 2.45 and an Attack K/D of 1.63...not very impressive...but reasonable overall.
In TOD 98 (Late War) I decided to improve my Fighter K/D, and I did, with a whopping K/D of 22...in only 10 sorties...<sarcasm> and a total flying time in Fighters of 4 hours and 56 seconds!</sarcasm> They were the only sorties I flew in Fighter mode that TOD. And, if I recollect...most, if not all of my kills in Fighter mode were against Bombers; ultimately...it was quite stressful, actually, and reflected in the number of Fighter missions I flew trying to keep that high K/D ratio. I wonder how much more fun I could have had that TOD if I had not focused on Fighter K/D?
Subsequent Tod's found my Fighter K/D ratio falling to more normal K/D ratios for my skill level. If you check my scores from TOD 97 to TOD 102 you can almost see my thought processes from Tour to Tour regarding Fighter K/D. I was obsessed! :x An interesting TOD stat was TOD 101...check the Fighter K/D and sorties flown in fighter mode against the sorties flown in Attack mode; I think it is a perfect example of what many have already said about scoring and the ease of becoming enamoured by score alone as a skill check.
So! Just for fun, this TOD, I decided to try to replicate my TOD 98 Fighter K/D. I won't make it! I was up to a 13 K/D in Fighter mode but lost a single engagement against another Fighter that sent my 13 K/D to a 6.5 K/D! :lol Fun is what you do to entertain yourself! Me? I'm having a blast!
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This should be in another thread, this sounds more like the true definition of burnout is because you have to "ignore all the lame stuff and play your own way because we all know hitech wont do anything about it but promote even more lame play". :neener:
I still find the fights that supposedly no longer exist. The game still feeds my history obsessed imagination of being a cartoon WW2 pilot. I figure the best way I can improve game play is by how I play, how I interact with other players, and by sharing what I can with other players in hopes that they'll find enjoyment in the game too. For me that happens to be the history stuff since I'm much better at teaching that, then I am at teaching cartoon fighter pilot skills.
I've been through the burnout time, more then once, and it usually happens when I get too serious about the game and began demanding changes that I think will make me happier, when in fact that is on me to find with the many parts of the game that are here. If in the end the feeling is that HTC needs to spoon feed the players the right way to play, then I shouldn't be playing anyway as I've lost my perspective on what Aces High is.
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That's the boat I'm looking to climb into now. Very few want to fight any more so my only real option is to HO everything in site, get in on the vulches learn to get the pick down better.
After all it's how the game is supposed to be play, right?
You have to be more clever then just going nose first into a furball expecting anything other than getting gang ho'd. Learn to lure one or two away from the horde. Then fight them 10k away from everyone else. If you fly into red and expect anything besides getting mercilessly slaughtered you are kidding yourself. If you fly slow turny birds and expect faster, less maneuverable aircraft to let you kill them, you are kidding yourself.
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but Grizz they did it all the time for me.......:-) they think hell we got 5 or more friendlies to that lone hurri they get caught up in tryin to kill me first, and if im havin a good day before they know it there in the tower going" what the hell just happened" haha love doing that. my all time favorite activity in AH :-)
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Fugutive et al..
I am a new father so have very limited free-time nowadays. I do not care to spend it playing wack-a-mole on HUGE maps with more bases than players online at any given time. I am vehemently opposed to the whole map/game design implementation that systemically rewards players for AVOIDING combat.
When they made captures hard, I actually flew quite a bit a few months ago. Having the "path of least resistance" types fight for every base to the bitter end was exciting and is what AH should be. It was a great month and reminded me of the old days. Of course Hitech quickly reverted to EZ mode captures and sure enough , wack-a-mole is back with a vengeance. Chasing the same 30-40 self-gratulatory back-slappers all over the map just to have them evaporate at the first hint of any semblance of an actual fight isn't my idea of fun...
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Chasing the same 30-40 self-gratulatory back-slappers all over the map just to have them evaporate at the first hint of any semblance of an actual fight isn't my idea of fun...
Thats a solid argument you make there Zazen and what that I am sympathetic with. I think the nub of the matter is that for every person who views the game along similar lines as yourself there are going to be 30-40 self-gratulatory back-slappers taking unopposed fields to win the war. HTC is a business and they will do what any smart business does. Make money.
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Fugutive et al..
I am a new father so have very limited free-time nowadays. I do not care to spend it playing wack-a-mole on HUGE maps with more bases than players online at any given time. I am vehemently opposed to the whole map/game design implementation that systemically rewards players for AVOIDING combat.
When they made captures hard, I actually flew quite a bit a few months ago. Having the "path of least resistance" types fight for every base to the bitter end was exciting and is what AH should be. It was a great month and reminded me of the old days. Of course Hitech quickly reverted to EZ mode captures and sure enough , wack-a-mole is back with a vengeance. Chasing the same 30-40 self-gratulatory back-slappers all over the map just to have them evaporate at the first hint of any semblance of an actual fight isn't my idea of fun...
The recent changes have brought back more combats than before. During the "hard" capture time, the enemy often quickly gave up when resistance appeared. Now they are more confident and press on the attack... not always successful. ;) Offpeak maps are always small now, and the caps switch has been delayed so that you do not end up on an empty map with 20 players anymore. There is much less opportunity to avoid resistance overall, (no empty 2nd arena).
Yes, a few players can sneak a base once again, but that means they also try to, with the 100% town rule and no flag the hordes simply became bigger and bigger.
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I see things are getting better here and there, but the biggest problem is still the players. As Yeager said the 30-40 self-gratulatory back-slappers bring in more money than the few hard core fighter/strategist types. It's up the the "horde" leaders to cut back on the horde. Send 10 to one base, and 10 to another creates two fights and breaks up the horde. But as long as the "horde" leaders continue to need 20+ guy for a capture you'll see the same style of game play we have now.
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The recent changes have brought back more combats than before. During the "hard" capture time, the enemy often quickly gave up when resistance appeared. Now they are more confident and press on the attack... not always successful. ;) Offpeak maps are always small now, and the caps switch has been delayed so that you do not end up on an empty map with 20 players anymore. There is much less opportunity to avoid resistance overall, (no empty 2nd arena).
Yes, a few players can sneak a base once again, but that means they also try to, with the 100% town rule and no flag the hordes simply became bigger and bigger.
Actually, I see the exact opposite is the case. The harder a base is to take the longer it takes. If a base capture takes sufficiently long that defensive support can arrive from an adjacent base then a real fight may become a real possibility. If captures are so fast that the only possibility of mounting a defense is to lift from the base under direct attack, the hoarders are rewarded with not only a quick steamroll capture , but several>many vulch kills to boot. The vulch kills encourages "tag-a-longs" not directly interested in the capture itself, but the score padding of vulching. This increases both the size of the offending horde and the general "lameness" of the gameplay experience for all involved.
I do agree however on HUGE maps, that regardless of the difficulty of captures globally, there is very little incentive to push the attack or defense for that matter. When there are 300 other bases on the map with no vigorous defense, it's logical, albeit excruciatingly boring and tedious, to just reload and pick another base for yourself and your 40 closest friends to steamroll.
Hordes per se aren't the problem...lopsided hordes are the problem...
The beauty of the small maps is every field is valuable and worthy of vigorous attack and defense, on huge maps, that is almost never the case.
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What is a good fighter kill to killed ratio. What is average.
I have been playing for about five months and almost 1 to 1 kill to killed. Is that good bad or about avg.
Thanks for the input.
the best K/D ratio is the one you dont pay attenchian too. play to enjoy the game. not worry about what a clipboard with numbers say.
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Actually, I see the exact opposite is the case. The harder a base is to take the longer it takes.
In theory, yes. Practically there is a limit to that. make it too easy, and no one can and will defend anymore. Make it too hard and you will quite often not see a prolonged attack, but an aborted one in case any serious opposition shows up. There is a limit to the stamina and stubborness of the attackers. One may lament about that, but that's how people are ;)
A prime example for that was the EW arena. After we got the new big town, not only the general population, but the number of kills (=combat!) in particular went down drastically. (charts will follow). It simply was too hard now, so people stopped trying and went elsewhere. When we got the flags in town, not only the milkrunners came back but also the number of kills skyrocketed again (relatively spoken).
The effect on LW wasn't as drastically, but very noticeable. Another point was than with a greatly reduced capture rate, there was almost no more map rotation and no more won wars. And if we like it or not, this is a very important part in gameplay and long time player motivation, especially for newer players.
Somewhere there is a (blurry) line between, "Come on guys, one more try" and "Screw that, we don't have a chance". I might add that we still don't have as many base captures as we used to have over the years, mostly due to the changed arena format.
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I can imagine a gameplay setup in which the individual base capture is much harder to accomplish, but you have to make a lot of other adjustments on several levels (from map design to war victory conditions) to make that work without too much overall frustration
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The effect on LW wasn't as drastically, but very noticeable. Another point was than with a greatly reduced capture rate, there was almost no more map rotation and no more won wars. And if we like it or not, this is a very important part in gameplay and long time player motivation, especially for newer players.
Somewhere there is a (blurry) line between, "Come on guys, one more try" and "Screw that, we don't have a chance". I might add that we still don't have as many base captures as we used to have over the years, mostly due to the changed arena format.
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I can imagine a gameplay setup in which the individual base capture is much harder to accomplish, but you have to make a lot of other adjustments on several levels (from map design to war victory conditions) to make that work without too much overall frustration
I have no doubt that you're insight into those motivated purely, or at least mostly, by the "winning the war" is superior to mine. I am a circa '90 AW refugee. I played on the same map or two for over a decade. Give me a map that encourages , rather than discourages, air combat and you can leave it up until the end of time as far as I am concerned. Put a map up and/or a ruleset in place that seems to be designed specifically to make actual combat less likely and I'll just go play another game...I simply don't have the time to spend what little of of it that is discretionary in a vain attempt to coax the shy lil' capture bunnies into persevering long enough to create real air combat.
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I have no doubt that you're insight into those motivated purely, or at least mostly, by the "winning the war" is superior to mine. I am a circa '90 AW refugee. I played on the same map or two for over a decade. Give me a map that encourages , rather than discourages, air combat and you can leave it up until the end of time as far as I am concerned. Put a map up and/or a ruleset in place that seems to be designed specifically to make actual combat less likely and I'll just go play another game...I simply don't have the time to spend what little of of it that is discretionary in a vain attempt to coax the shy lil' capture bunnies into persevering long enough to create real air combat.
I knew it was cold, but I think something just froze over. I'm going to agree with Zazen :)
I could care less what the map is and as long as folks fight on it, the map could stay up forever. It's just cartoon sky in the end, it's what we do in it good or bad that matters.
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The fact that they put the town to EZ mode still doesnt supress the hordes.
Ive gotten to think if HTC impliments a 1 building down, breathe on the town and you get a capture, your still going to get hordes coming in. True the 100% town take was much more difficult and only increased the hordes, you would find that if they steamroll bases, it wouldnt last for a long period of time. The hordes will just naturally diminish from lack of interest.
They should of kept the 100% rule/no flag IMO. Lemmings now a days would rather spend countless hours studying strategies on how to manipulate things like extended dar rings etc..and take what they want using the easiest method rather than use that time training and getting better, which is pretty sad.
Instead of waiting things out until everyone got used to a new system, it created nothing but drama by all the "I quit" threats and this game is only appeasing to furballers.
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The best sticks are the guys who have fun every time up and give any and all comers a fight regardless of the odds :)
You can talk numbers all you want, but there are too many other things that go into it as well. In the end as long as you are having fun, who the heck cares.
One of the things you notice if you last long enough is there are waves of the latest and greatest cartoon fighter pilots. They come in, work their tails off to be the bestest, tell everyone about it, burn out and move on. Those that stick around figure out sooner then later it's gotta remain fun, or they burn out too.
This man just backed up my point :banana:
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I have done a few analysis based on flight time, # of sorties and so on. But this has relatively little impact on the total numbers, because if you only take the top 50% in time flown, you will get rid of a lot of 2-weekers, but also on a lot of "top scores" that happen to fly most of their sorties in attack mode.
Which again shows that score itself only tells so much.... or little ;)
Go ahead and judge me by what my attack mode looks like. I (T.I.N.S) fly in attack mode most of the time for superstitious reasons. :D
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If captures are so fast that the only possibility of mounting a defense is to lift from the base under direct attack, the hoarders are rewarded with not only a quick steamroll capture , but several>many vulch kills to boot. The vulch kills encourages "tag-a-longs" not directly interested in the capture itself, but the score padding of vulching.
This may explain the lack of interdiction and fights in the "middle ground" nowadays.
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....... I might add that we still don't have as many base captures as we used to have over the years, mostly due to the changed arena format.
and.................... Another view point we must keep in mind along with these changes has also come player mindsets:
A key word here is successful base captures and attempts. I am sure you know how many captures were successful, but you will not know how many were attempted and were thwarted.
IMO there are more like myself that are willing to defend against base captures and this will have a profound effect on how many town captures will be successful and how many will not.
Base capture is easier than before we can all agree on that, the only other factor that will prevent more base captures as before is the increase in defense.
Actually, I see the exact opposite is the case. The harder a base is to take the longer it takes. If a base capture takes sufficiently long that defensive support can arrive from an adjacent base then a real fight may become a real possibility. If captures are so fast that the only possibility of mounting a defense is to lift from the base under direct attack, the hoarders are rewarded with not only a quick steamroll capture , but several>many vulch kills to boot. The vulch kills encourages "tag-a-longs" not directly interested in the capture itself, but the score padding of vulching. This increases both the size of the offending horde and the general "lameness" of the gameplay experience for all involved.
I do agree however on HUGE maps, that regardless of the difficulty of captures globally, there is very little incentive to push the attack or defense for that matter. When there are 300 other bases on the map with no vigorous defense, it's logical, albeit excruciatingly boring and tedious, to just reload and pick another base for yourself and your 40 closest friends to steamroll.
Hordes per se aren't the problem...lopsided hordes are the problem...
The beauty of the small maps is every field is valuable and worthy of vigorous attack and defense, on huge maps, that is almost never the case.
Agreed. Very good point.
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I have seen many times when resistance is firm the horde will give up and log off or pick a base way out on the rim which no-one is watching, then start another horde, possibly leaving a few behind to draw the attention on the base they just hit. What true skill is involved in a horde of 20+ atacking an undefended base? Oh well, it is what it is.... :airplane:
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Fly the B-25...you'll wind up not caring about score.
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If you want to know what a good K/D is look at DrBone's. He is the best :aok