Author Topic: America VS the world  (Read 2920 times)

Offline Vudak

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America VS the world
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2005, 06:11:54 PM »
I went to England a few months ago and had some reservations.  I figured people would give me and my friends a hard time as we were quite obviously Americans (we were the only people who chose to contact each other's apartment by hanging out the window and yelling).

Really though, they didn't treat us bad at all.

I had a few discussions with some people over there because I wanted to know exactly what was thought of Bush and Iraq.  I also wanted to know what their average yearly wage was, how their economy was going, etc.  I basically tried to soak up as much knowledge as possible about their daily lives.

A few told me they really respected me for that.

Most people I ran into didn't like Bush, but the most popular reason was that, essentially, he is too brash.  They didn't neccessarily disagree with what he was doing, just the way he goes about doing it.  

You know, I can understand that.  He is brash.  That's good in the sense that he gets things done (about time a president did), but it is bad in the sense of how he lessens our friendly image, if you will.  So I respect their opinion.

I myself, however, became somewhat disenchanted with how we treat our best friend, the British (let's face it, we argue, but in this world, Britain and Australia are our two closest pals).  It just really saddened me at how warmly I was welcomed into England, and how quickly customs and what not went by, only to see the Brits photographed and fingerprinted back in America.  I realize this is considered "necessary" for security purposes...  But London's just as juicy a target as New York...  And I wasn't hassled.

So basically Batfink, I thought the British hated Americans until I went there and saw first hand that they do not.  Shrug.
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Offline VOR

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America VS the world
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2005, 06:34:06 PM »
Not all Americans are convinced that all the world hates them.

Offline Bodhi

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Re: America VS the world
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2005, 06:45:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
There is going to be a nasty war in the next 50-100 years, we all know it and no one can stop it.


The "war" you are talking about is going to be when the EU falls apart because of the divisive nature of Europeans.

Plain and simply that is the only war I see coming or going in Europe in the next 50 some odd years, but personnally I think it will happen within 20 years, and it will be a version of the Euro havenots rising up against the Euro haves...

Wonder which side the US will take in that mess.

:rolleyes:
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Offline Steve

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America VS the world
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2005, 06:49:02 PM »
Quote
There is going to be a nasty war in the next 50-100 years, we all know it and no one can stop it.


Overdue in my opinion.  The muslim-Christain war is already begun... most people just refuse to acknowledge it.

another world war, starting in Europe is late in coming, IMHO.
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Offline -MZ-

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Re: America VS the world
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2005, 07:18:11 PM »
ORANGE COUNTY WEEKLY

The Year In Diplomatic Buffoonery, Argyros-Style
by Gustavo Arellano

When Orange County businessman George Argyros became ambassador to Spain in late 2001, OC Weekly managing editor Matt Coker wrote an open letter to then-Spanish President José María Aznar, expressing his hope "that by the time [Argyros] has left Madrid, he will not have rekindled the Spanish-American War" ("Lo Siento," Dec. 7, 2001).

It was funny, but as it turned out, not that funny. Sure, galleons aren’t hurtling across the Atlantic—yet—but 2004 marked the worst deterioration of Spanish-American ties since Julio Iglesias’ mid-1980s world tour. And it’s fair to blame all of it on Orange County’s fattest landlord.

It wasn’t only that Argyros didn’t speak—and wouldn’t learn—Spanish, a form of lingual retardation ridiculed frequently in the Madrid press over his three-year stay. Nor was it his backdoor deal with Aznar to secure Spain’s involvement in the Iraq invasion, a move opposed by more than 90 percent of Spaniards. Nor even was it Argyros’ reaction after the March 11 Madrid bombings that killed 191 madrileños: with all of Spain in mourning, he issued a press release praising Spain’s participation in the war in Iraq. It wasn’t just bad timing. It was boneheaded, cold-hearted and crass. It was like interrupting an American soldier’s funeral with a Halliburton commercial. Smart historians will note Argyros’ supporting role in the collapse of Aznar’s government mere days later.

All that was bad. But what ultimately damaged America’s reputation in Spain was what Coker foresaw all those years ago: Argyros’ arrogance, his bumbling, his buffoonery. In short, Argyros being Argyros, it all came to a boorish gestalt in October.

During the summer, Spanish President José Luís Rodríguez Zapatero—the man who beat Aznar’s handpicked successor in March—delivered on his campaign promise to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq. Spaniards greeted the move with relief. But it infuriated Argyros, who had campaigned for his ambassadorship on two points: his ability to raise $30 million for George W. Bush in 2000, and his promise to deliver and keep Spain in Bush’s mediocre Coalition of the Willing.

In Orange County, we know Argyros from his handling of the campaign to turn El Toro into an international airport and his role as the evilest landlord since the guy who handled the Indians’ escrow. We expected him to react with vengeance, but we didn’t expect him to choose Oct. 12 as his day of divine retribution. That’s Spanish National Day, Spain’s Fourth of July, if you will, a holiday commemorating the country’s reunification after driving out the Moors in 1492 and Christopher Columbus’ discovery of America.

In Madrid, the National Day parade is the highlight of the embassy season; the attendance of all foreign diplomats and ambassadors in Spain is virtually mandatory. There was one notable absence this year: Argyros.

The ambassador’s initial explanation was that he could not return in time from a hunting trip with James Baker. When Spanish officials didn’t buy it, Argyros did something rare: he told the truth. He told the Spanish news agency Europa Press that he ditched the parade as a kind of payback: seems that a year before, Argyros said, at that same parade, Zapatero didn’t stand when the American flag passed the reviewing stand.

All of Spain paused over their paella, set aside their pitchers of sangría and howled. Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said Argyros’ snub "didn’t meet the norms of diplomatic courtesy." Spain’s premier daily, El País, elegantly called his explanation "inelegant." Even the moderate El Mundo described Argyros’ decision as a "hostile gesture."

By then, Argyros had announced he would resign after the U.S. election. But the damage was already done. Bush requested a November meeting with Spain’s king in Crawford, Texas, to patch things up, and Argyros returned to Orange County, where he awaits a spring appearance by Aznar at UC Irvine—the former president’s second OC appearance in about a year. Orange County is about the only place that would welcome such an unwanted and disgraced man. And George Argyros is glad to be home.

Offline Mini D

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America VS the world
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2005, 07:26:35 PM »
That article says much more than you realize MZ.  If two people are being *******s, someone's bound to write an article on how it was the American's fault.  In this case, someone with a vendetta.

I love the media.

Offline -MZ-

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America VS the world
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2005, 07:31:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
That article says much more than you realize MZ.  If two people are being *******s, someone's bound to write an article on how it was the American's fault.  In this case, someone with a vendetta.

I love the media.


Sorry, I forgot to mention that the OC Weekly is a left-leaning muckracking rag similar to the LA Weekly and Village Voice.

I thought it was interesting though, considering that most Americans are unaware that our many of our ambassadors' sole qualification is that they raised money an the election.

Offline mechanic

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America VS the world
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2005, 07:33:24 PM »
good to see some sensible, on topic replies.

Vudak, yes, we love you yanks in our little island and do all we can to make you feel welcome.

Bodhi, yes this war will be because of our nature, but you really think so soon? And more importantly, if the war is about our little euro ways, why should the US even get envolved?

Steve, i agree, although i do not relish the prospect.

MZ, good post, very profound.

MiniD, thats the problem with the world today, the media makes history. What is a stupid media spin off today may become concrete fact in 100 years.  

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Offline Toad

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America VS the world
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2005, 08:22:48 PM »
Before or after your next war amongst yourselves?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Steve

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America VS the world
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2005, 08:23:36 PM »
Quote
And more importantly, if the war is about our little euro ways, why should the US even get envolved?


Because we stand by our allies*




*God forgive us for the Bay of Pigs
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Offline Mini D

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America VS the world
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2005, 08:28:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -MZ-
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the OC Weekly is a left-leaning muckracking rag similar to the LA Weekly and Village Voice.

I thought it was interesting though, considering that most Americans are unaware that our many of our ambassadors' sole qualification is that they raised money an the election.
If this had been an article about ambassadors, then I could see the point of posting that.  But, given the context, the article doesn't say anything about the performance of ambasadors... but rather quite a bit about why perceptions get exagerated to sell papers.

Offline 1K0N

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Re: America VS the world
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2005, 08:51:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
ok, so why do Americans all think the world hates America so much?

its getting kinda stoopid recently.




Nice troll Ameristalker! and a very successfull one at that.  Get a grip and take your meds please!

Offline Curval

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America VS the world
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2005, 08:54:53 PM »
lol

Just great to see this thread turn out pretty much the way I thought it would.

Humans...we're just so damn predictable.

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Offline -MZ-

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America VS the world
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2005, 09:03:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
If this had been an article about ambassadors, then I could see the point of posting that.  But, given the context, the article doesn't say anything about the performance of ambasadors... but rather quite a bit about why perceptions get exagerated to sell papers.


Well, this thread is all over the place, but I thought it was relevant.

Also, it had the word 'retardation' in it.

Offline JB88

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Re: America VS the world
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2005, 09:04:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
ok, so why do Americans all think the world hates America so much?

its getting kinda stoopid recently.

seems funny that Americans cant take a bad word said to them, yet regularly tell the rest of us how pathetic we are?

If you ask me, which you wont because im not american, the world is heading for a major disaster.

If  America wants war with Europe, or Europe with America, then lets get it overwith and save my children the trouble. :lol


Personally i dont view nations as any different from each other, i judge the individual as i meet him/her. I certainly dont have any problem with the USA apart from the fact that it seems ok to slam us but we cant slam you.


There is going to be a nasty war in the next 50-100 years, we all know it and no one can stop it.

I'm moving to hawaii to stay with XtrmeJ until it all blows over and once again the world realises war is stoopid.

but which side of the fence will YOU be standing on when (not 'if') it blows?


um.  i seem to recall you apologizing in advance for killing any of your american friends.  i am calling imigration an letting them know that we have a terrorist on his way to our 50th state.

wouldnt want to miss another warning.

: )
this thread is doomed.
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