Author Topic: Stop The War, Support Our Troops (Read 3118 times)

Hawco · « **Reply #60 on:** February 27, 2007, 11:30:48 AM »

One of the things I've noticed about those (in the oclub) who are voracious in their support for war have never actually stepped up and tried the glorius act of warfare themselves.
sure we have come across the tire changers, the guys who were counting blankets in alaska, or changing oil filters in Germany.
I'm speaking to the actual grunts, the guys like me, who wore heavy kit, eat the crap food and know what it means to have yer hands shake loading live rounds into magazines and trying like a bear to listen to what the squad leader is saying while all the time wondering if your girlfriend really does love you or trying not show how much F%%G tired and p88sed of you really are.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " you boys know what I mean, you see it in here all the time.

Hawco
To those of you who come back with the one liners- not going to work this time.
To those who are full of SH**t and come back- F%%k you
I'm aiming this at the guy(s) who are/were just like me, normal,everyday Infantry.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #61 on:** February 27, 2007, 11:40:13 AM »

this sailor is also amused/tired by the armchair general warhawks.

as to your quote, I thought the point was to make the OTHER bastard die for his country.

Hawco · « **Reply #62 on:** February 27, 2007, 11:52:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bsdaddict
this sailor is also amused/tired by the armchair general warhawks.

as to your quote, I thought the point was to make the OTHER bastard die for his country.

Hopefully you'll see the irony in it BS, after reading some of the guff in here, you'll see what I mean

Hap · « **Reply #63 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:03:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Wow, just wow.

So a guy screws something up and you blame the people who are pointing out that he screwed something up for the screw up.

That is really screwed up.

Ding, ding, ding.

Reality meter went off.

I think many are doing their best impersonation of Sgt. Schultz about now.

Regards,

hap

p.s. Dred, if birthing babies or not, and marriage do not affect significantly ANY nation as a whole and at MANY levels, might as well close shop. Those who cannot see that it is so, if they be thoughtful, will reflect and revise. Pause and reflect. It goes against the "lie" that there is nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so.

oboe · « **Reply #64 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:15:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hap
My "beef" is that I think and believe the Bush Admin "over sold" the need for us to go to war, and did so with some qualms that were kept quiet purposely.

Hap, Doesn't your "beef" constitute an impeachable offense? I'm hard pressed to think of a higher crime or misdemeanor than intentionally taking a nation to war based on misleading or false information.

I agree the war is not lost-- its just a question of perspective. Saddam is gone, the WMD threat has been disproven, Iraq has a Constitution and an elected government. And as Laura Bush pointed out recently, many parts of Iraq are stable. Things are never going to be perfect. We've given them fledgling democracy but they seem more interested in killing each other right now than rebuilding their country. I'm waiting to see what Patraeus will be able to do, and the kinds of comments he will make about the situation.

Agree also there are many other important issues as well. I would add the Deficit, implementing 9/11 Commission recommendations, healthcare and Social Security to your list.

Gunslinger, you must have more confidence in the effectiveness of democrats than I do. I note you didn't diss the ArmyTimes poll - wasn't sure how that would be perceived.

Hawco, I think I'll reread your posts several times and try to soak up your sensibility and even temperament. Had to look up your Latin reference and found a moving poem about WWI by Wilfried Owen. Is that what you meant?

Hap · « **Reply #65 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:38:01 PM »

Yes, the 2 Owen poems: It's Fitting and Right to Die for One's Country (hap's on the fly lousy latin translation) and . . . no, it's Randal Jarrell's "Death of a Ball Turret Gunner" I thought of. Not Owen.

I dont' know what to call this other than human nature. At work for instance, something will happen then folks confab up. Well what was minor or insignificance all of a sudden is endowed with an import it did not formerly possess. Primarily, because WE'RE talking about it.

Then it's on to the next thing during the work day. Somewhere in between all the jawing, work gets done.

At the national level its not as straight forward and my comparision is not all that apt.

Infotainment makes things immeasurable more difficult.

I'm happy to be old enough to recall "news." Not the "OMG Marge he's is stuck to that chicken!" It's not news at all.

The 60's were a bum time and we've not gotten beyond them. I think there's no going back to more serious discussion in toto as a nation. Too many lies ingested.

There is good news though: when one finds or can piece together some fairly serious reflection and discussion it stands out. Not unlike in here. You'll see the post and maybe a couple posters doing it then others zap it with clearasil analysis and it's over.

Have a Great Day,

hap

Hawco · « **Reply #66 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:38:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
Hap, Doesn't your "beef" constitute an impeachable offense? I'm hard pressed to think of a higher crime or misdemeanor than intentionally taking a nation to war based on misleading or false information.

I agree the war is not lost-- its just a question of perspective. Saddam is gone, the WMD threat has been disproven, Iraq has a Constitution and an elected government. And as Laura Bush pointed out recently, many parts of Iraq are stable. Things are never going to be perfect. We've given them fledgling democracy but they seem more interested in killing each other right now than rebuilding their country. I'm waiting to see what Patraeus will be able to do, and the kinds of comments he will make about the situation.

Agree also there are many other important issues as well. I would add the Deficit, implementing 9/11 Commission recommendations, healthcare and Social Security to your list.

Gunslinger, you must have more confidence in the effectiveness of democrats than I do. I note you didn't diss the ArmyTimes poll - wasn't sure how that would be perceived.

Hawco, I think I'll reread your posts several times and try to soak up your sensibility and even temperament. Had to look up your Latin reference and found a moving poem about WWI by Wilfried Owen. Is that what you meant?

Yup, That's excatly what I mean't Oboe, I was never your all hero, gung ho type guy, I was a guy born to Irish immigrants who needed a Job and joined the Army, I'd always wanted to be a poet. a wrtiter, instead I found myself in a Hell, It was called the Falkland Islands, I had this romantic notion in my head, that it's just like on the TV, sweethearts kissing you goodbye, prmosies of endearing love on your return, instead I found that it was bascically on your own, I was young, Just turned 18, The first thing that got to me was how hard the ground there is to actually walk on, bits of telephone wire, empty bandoliers, Argentinian toothpaste tubes, these big holes with bits of metal sticking out of the sides, Frightened me to death, walking across boggy land in line extended, watching, shaking with fear, seeing these shapes that move like swallows dart in and out of the ridges and then hearing booms and seeing the smoke, Got what's called a "Bluey" down there, it's a free Aerogramme thing that you can send back and forth for free.
I still remember most of the writing:
Dear Graham
I have met Dave, he's a nice guy, we are moving to Dorset together to start a new life" take care etc etc.
Then 2 tours to Northern Ireland - Place called the Ardyone and one called Crossmaglen, Then just as I was getting out of the Army, I got sent to the Gulf, I got hurt, both Pyhsically and mentally.
So yes, Dulce est to me is glorius when it's said from an armchair or keyboard so to speak.
Sorry for the ramble Oboe and hopefully haven't hijacked the thread or whatever you get into trouble for.

john9001 · « **Reply #67 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:48:54 PM »

hawco, you should have never joined the army, armies sometimes go to war and kill people and break things, leave the fighting to the warriors, stay home and write your poems.

oboe · « **Reply #68 on:** February 27, 2007, 01:34:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hawco
Sorry for the ramble Oboe and hopefully haven't hijacked the thread or whatever you get into trouble for.

No worries Hawco, and thanks for sharing. Sorry things didn't work out like you expected. Lots of great writers went through Hell though-- Ernest Hemingway and Kurt Vonnegut come imediately to mind. I think their writing wouldn't have been the same without the experience and scars they carried.

Hawco · « **Reply #69 on:** February 27, 2007, 01:46:14 PM »

Hi john 9001 ( or some thing close)

Whenever we achieve something, or we lose something, we want to tell it immediately to our close ones.

If we achieve something and there is nobody, who is very very close to us, to hear about it, we feel, we have not achieved anything.

A child always wants to tell each and every detail about a picnic etc. to her / his parents.

I always feel good when i tell people my actual position honestly without hiding anything

bsdaddict · « **Reply #70 on:** February 27, 2007, 01:48:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hawco
Hi john 9001 ( or some thing close)

Whenever we achieve something, or we lose something, we want to tell it immediately to our close ones.

If we achieve something and there is nobody, who is very very close to us, to hear about it, we feel, we have not achieved anything.

A child always wants to tell each and every detail about a picnic etc. to her / his parents.

I always feel good when i tell people my actual position honestly without hiding anything

that was a much more civil reply than I would have made.

john9001 · « **Reply #71 on:** February 27, 2007, 01:49:27 PM »

i understand, i meant no insult.

Yeager · « **Reply #72 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:03:52 PM »

definately a lover, not a fighter

namvet · « **Reply #73 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:30:35 PM »

Usually if I support someone, it implies that I wouldn't want them to get killed for no good reason.

Hawco · « **Reply #74 on:** February 27, 2007, 03:32:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How much can the US Army do to stop terrorist attacks on Iraqi civilian soft targets?

Attacks on our forces seem to be a side show these days, the main event is slaughtering as many of the other sides civvies as possible.

Great question Grunherz, endless answers are possible but one comes to mind, The Army, for all it's blustering, can't stop it, only the Iraqis can stop it.
When I was in Northen Ireland, I asked much the same thing, thing is, on the ground level you are left with 2 choices:
1- Try and work it all out, make a difference and play by the rules
2- Do what your told, stay away from the local cops (RUC) as far as you can as they were the real targets and don't ask any questions.
Then leave dodge.
that's about it, no posturing, surges, flag waving will solve anything until they want to stop killing each other.