Author Topic: Gun Free Campus Protest (Read 2668 times)

Elfie · « **Reply #60 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:36:49 PM »

Quote

the right to bare arms.

Since the spelling and grammer Nazis are out in force today I thought I'd join in.

It's bear, not bare.

Elfie · « **Reply #61 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:38:57 PM »

Quote

Again, I'm not against gun or peoples right to carry them, however I do feel there should be stricter regulations for CCW's and there should be places like schools that are gun free.

Virtually every place that has relaxed their CCW laws to allow more folks to carry have seen significant drops in violent crime. If those same laws were made more restrictive again it stands to reason that violent crime rates would go back up. Is this what you want?

Elfie · « **Reply #62 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:40:32 PM »

Quote

Really? There are many loopholes in many states that allow people to obtain CCW permits even with past criminal histories. In Florida alone they found something like 1,400 people whom were approved for CCW's but had committed federal crimes in the past.

Source?

I follow the 2nd amendment stuff fairly closely and I've never heard a hint of that.

crockett · « **Reply #63 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:43:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Since the spelling and grammer Nazis are out in force today I thought I'd join in.

It's bear, not bare.

Yes, I think you're right, I'll make note of that.

crockett · « **Reply #64 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:50:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Source?

I follow the 2nd amendment stuff fairly closely and I've never heard a hint of that.

I originally saw it on the boob tube news, but a quick search brought up this in regards to the Florida issue. This is a news article about the same thing, but it only talks about the problem in Florida as it's a Florida news paper.

In the original news story that I watched, they talked about other states that had similar problems.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-gunmain28jan28,0,2918397.story

btw Something I didn't realize, is the 1,400 is just people whom were given permits the first half of 2006. So it's probably safe to say it's likely more than 1,400 people in Florida alone.

In an investigation of the state's concealed weapon system, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel found those licensed to carry guns in the first half of 2006 included:

More than 1,400 people who pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies but qualified because of a loophole in the law.

lazs2 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 26, 2007, 01:55:12 PM »

crock-it.... you find it "silly" that violent criminals should be given the right to keep and bear arms?

I find it "silly" that violent criminals should be released from prison and that you expect them to then not get a gun on the black market... after all.. if you make them a second class citizen and also release em while they are still a threat... it is the problem of the system not the constitution.

And yes... I accept the restrictions of the constitution on the second amendment. I don't want insane people to have guns or children.. the later I could moderate for special cases...

I am quite clear on my views. you don't have to assume or guess. why is it that the left.. never is? they are good at tearing down but they never admit their agenda.

So what to you are reasonable gun laws that would also be constitutional?

lazs

indy007 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:07:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crockett
Again, I'm not against gun or peoples right to carry them, however I do feel there should be stricter regulations for CCW's and there should be places like schools that are gun free.

Makes a lot of sense. Obviously, gun free schools is a great idea.

Now just go tell the guys that have committed massacres in schools that reasonably, they should've left their guns outside.

Didn't work then, doesn't work now, will never, ever work.

Tiger · « **Reply #67 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:08:04 PM »

By the way the right to "Bare Arms" is not in the constitution. Maybe we should add an amendment so that we have the gov't telling us we can't wear wife beaters in public.

Laz what I find silly is out legal system in general... I refuse to call it a justice system. There is no Justice, if you've got the money you can get away with anything (OJ anyone?, how about Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie and their DUI jail terms?).
As far as violent crimes, I like the old west approach, tall tree + short rope = no more problems. That's what I like about SC's delf defense laws. You come in my house, I can pop a cap in you and it is completely legal. You come in my yard and present yourself as a threat, Pow- morgue for you, I just have to get the blood stains off the grass. SC even has an 'in their shoes' clause in the law. If you're at my neighbors posing a seriouds threat, and if I were 'in my neighbors shoes' and it would be a justifiable self defense, I can pop a cap in you for my neighbor. I'd even offer to help him clean the blood stains. That's why we have a low level of violent crimes here. Domestic violence, DUI, and heart disease we're #1.

lazs2 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:22:31 PM »

tiger...law and government are first of all not about justice except in the abstract... they are about force and power. they are at best, blunt and terrible tools. They are about order more than justice.

for law and government to work they must exercise huge amounts of force and do away with such niceties as justice. The more government you have... the more "order" you have... the more injustice. enough government and law and order... and.. at one time or another... everyone is treated to some injustice.

The trick is to have as little government as possible. The trick is to not listen to the majority when they scream to remove the rights of the minority.

That is why you need a strong bill of rights... the bill of rights is to protect the people from the government.

It is unfortunate that we are ignoring our constitution... it was one of the best documents of its kind ever written. I do not believe that a better one has been written since... nor would it be possible. we are simply ignoring it.

lazs

BiGBMAW · « **Reply #69 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:24:39 PM »

Crock..you are full of it..

"Schools should be gun free".....Why don't we just make a sign that says "Society is a Crime Free Zone"?

LMFAO..What part of Criminal do you not understand....They do not abide by laws

Reminds me of the signs in the ghetto that say..." Gun and Drug Free Zone"..

lololololo...Leave your dime bag and your .38 on the curb before entering

Why are people liek you so idiotic? It has to be the upbringing...Is it in the genes?..Learned behavior..

Like they were raised without there dad...mommies boy?

I dont know but its sickening

"Society Is Safer When Criminals Do Not Know Who Is Armed"

crockett · « **Reply #70 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:30:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
crock-it.... you find it "silly" that violent criminals should be given the right to keep and bear arms?

I find it "silly" that violent criminals should be released from prison and that you expect them to then not get a gun on the black market... after all.. if you make them a second class citizen and also release em while they are still a threat... it is the problem of the system not the constitution.

And yes... I accept the restrictions of the constitution on the second amendment. I don't want insane people to have guns or children.. the later I could moderate for special cases...

I am quite clear on my views. you don't have to assume or guess. why is it that the left.. never is? they are good at tearing down but they never admit their agenda.

So what to you are reasonable gun laws that would also be constitutional?

lazs

First off why is it you have to bring politics into this? I think I'm also being very clear that I don't think violent criminals should not own guns. How much clearer do I need to make it?

As far as unreasonable gun laws. IMO I thought the Assault Rifle ban was pretty stupid. I thought it was pretty dumb that a law existed that basically said i can't buy a new M16 with specific items on it. Or better yet I could pick 1 thing out of a list to have but I couldn't have them all.

Yet I could turn around and simply buy a pre-ban lower receiver and build a "pre-ban" M16 with new parts and pretty much anything I wanted on it. That was pretty stupid IMO and I'm glad the law is gone.

You didn't see me bashing Bush because he didn't renew the Assault Rifle ban. I thought it was a stupid law and didn't support it.

I'm not for a bunch of crazy stupid gun laws. However there are certain things that I think should be law and one of those is making it illegal to carry a gun if you have committed certain crimes.

As far as not letting people out of jail if you don't trust them. Well we have already gone over this, I'm not going to do it again. You certainly aren't looking at reality if you think there is some way to ensure that people let out of jail are somehow trustworthy the min the get released.

I think it's pretty easy to see the percentage of people whom are released from jail and end up right back in jail as proof enough that your argument there is extreemly flawed and wishful thinking at best.

cpxxx · « **Reply #71 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:32:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
The Constitution of the US, specifically the 2nd Amendment, specifically does not allow for compromise on the rights of a free people to bare arms.

Cpxxx,
You have to read and understand our early history and our Constitution so you can realize why the founding Fathers of this nation outlined it as such. Many say that the 2nd Amendment was an after thought. Yes, it was, as the founding Fathers realized that there were imbeciles who would talk of removing the ability of the citizenry to over throw an unjust and corrupt government. Freedom of Speech was also in the same boat. They added both very quickly to prevent imbeciles from harming the good of the nation.

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't referring to the general right to bear arms. I didn't make it clear to be fair. But strictly in the case of carrying guns on a school campus where they have banned the carrying of guns because of the fear of shootings.

Neither side are serving their cause any good by digging into deeply entrenched positions.

john9001 · « **Reply #72 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:32:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crockett

More than 1,400 people who pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies but qualified because of a loophole in the law.[/i]

ahh that damm "loophole".

what loophole was that?

in related news.

fact, more than 200,000 CCW's in florida have not committed any gun crimes.

lazs2 · « **Reply #73 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:33:12 PM »

for those who think "gun free" (lol) is a good policy for schools... does that mean that you don't trust the saint like teachers to have ccw permits and carry on campus?

What about cops? FBI? who do you trust and which are the peasants not to be trusted and who are the saints?

Do you think there would be more or less or the same school shootings if teachers for instance were allowed to carry if they had permits (concealed of course)?

lazs

Tiger · « **Reply #74 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:37:32 PM »

The only people who obey the 'gun free zones' are law abiding citizens. The criminals wills till take guns there, hence them being criminals.

Law only hurt those who are willing to obey them. The Criminals will continue to break the law... that's what they do.