Author Topic: Question to Finns  (Read 30371 times)

Offline Stang

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6127
Question to Finns
« Reply #330 on: March 15, 2005, 12:57:07 AM »
Absolutely laughable source of information Raven.  This is a joke even for the net.

One article even claims the "mass terror bombings" of the allied air campaingn of WW2 on Germany caused a severe food shortage that was the real cause of the jewish death toll in the concentration camps (yeah, they didn't have gas chambers working 24/7 I guess).

You two are really just keeping our jaws stuck on the floor at your every post.  Keep it up!

Check it out:
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/index.asp
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 01:04:59 AM by Stang »

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #331 on: March 15, 2005, 01:02:15 AM »
to Fishu

>>Some basics of the democracy..

It was just a joke, Fishu, to point Siaf that "democracy" it`s just a word, that means nothing as a word alone, with free election and stuff.

>>oh, wait, that was before the "great patriotic war".

The "Great Patriotic War", Fishu. Or you want to offend me?

>>What was all that about? Surely the baltic states and Finland were a great threat for the smallish Soviet Union.

Baltic states joined to USSR before Great Patriotic War.

>>Finland with small amount of planes and tanks, which of many were outdated.

And still you attack USSR with this in 1941.

>>After the war, liberation of the baltic states and poland, those were quietly annexed into the Soviet Union, without questions asked.

But with agreement to USA and England.

>>You talk about the slaves, yet the USSR enslaved a number of countries for two decades.

You don`t see my point. When I said about "slaves" I mean, that europian countries *must* defend their values (democracy and freedom in the case of europian countries) from faschist to the death, to the last blood drop, like any real man do, like USSR did. But they prefer to capitulate, to became part of fashist state, to forgot about their values - to become german slaves. That is what I mean, Fishu.

>>Many historians thinks that the USSR would've attacked Germany, had they not made the first move.

Ooo. I know, what "historians" you talk about :-) Suvorov aka Rezun, "ex-GRU agent", author of "Icebreaker" and all of his followers. There a LOT of book in the world (not only in Russia) where showed with facts in hands, that Rezun is a lier, that wanted to make some money on brainwashed enough westerners :-)

And I agreed with most of other from your post.

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Question to Finns
« Reply #332 on: March 15, 2005, 01:14:58 AM »
Raven first you must understand the very basics such as 'democracy' can never co-exist with the 'dictatorship' or 'totalitarian.'

If a country is one of the latter, it's not a democracy and by far not democratic.

It's not my fault if communism is nowadays a synonyme for evil dictatorships and oppression.

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #333 on: March 15, 2005, 01:25:01 AM »
to Stang

>>Absolutely laughable source of information. This is a joke even for the net.

This site just host copy of the page. You can google for other sources.

BTW, he is one aff the authors of Uniformed Services Almanac, Retired Military Almanac and so on.

Quote

A dark page in American history are the "Rheinwiesenlager", large prison camps containing some 557.000 German POW's. USA officials already admitted that there were 3.053 deaths within three months after it was set up, German investigations came up with 4.537. Needless to say who is right. This camp got away with a mere blink from Eisenhower, just like Patton ('a good German is a dead German'), he hated Germans. The men were left to starve in the mud, there was no shelter of any kind, thousands of soldiers perished. (source: ("Wissenschaftliche Kommission für deutsche Kriegsgefangenengeschichte", München 1962-1973, 15 books and 2 supplements)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 01:38:51 AM by Raven_2 »

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #334 on: March 15, 2005, 01:29:03 AM »
to Sciaf

Quote

Communism is a term that can refer to one of several things: a social and economic system, an ideology which supports that system, or a political movement that wishes to implement that system.

As a theoretical social and economic system, communism would be a type of egalitarian society with no state, no privately owned means of production and no social classes. In communism, all property is owned by the community as a whole, and all people have equal social and economic status. Theoretically, human need or advancement is not left unsatisfied because of poverty, and is rather solved through distribution of property as needed. This is thus often the system proposed to solve the poverty cycle.

Perhaps the best known maxim of a communist society is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This economic model is also referred to as a gift economy.

As a political movement, communism is a branch of the broader socialist movement. The communist movement differentiates itself from other branches of the socialist movement through various things - such as, for example, the communist desire to establish a gift economy, and their commitment to revolutionary strategies for overthrowing capitalism.


Is it so bad or evil?

wikipedia.org. Communism is still there. And USSR was not a communist country.

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Question to Finns
« Reply #335 on: March 15, 2005, 01:33:38 AM »
It's not bad or evil, it just doesn't work.

And it has been used as a trojan horse to sell a totalitarian, enslaving oppressive form of government to the people (which USSR obviously was.)

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #336 on: March 15, 2005, 03:28:50 AM »
to Toad and Stang

>>You two are really just keeping our jaws stuck on the floor at your every post. Keep it up!

Sure :-)

Quote

Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the Earth. Seventeen percent believe the Earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).


LOL 8-D

Quote

• "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.


No LOL for this, this really sad. And undemocratic.

Quote

"Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its work-force in the 1980s. ... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1%" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.


BTW, do you know tahat in tottaly undemocratic Russia jobgiver must pay to it`s workers 1/5 of their salary when they are ill? All time until they healed.

Quote

Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40% of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.


Yeah, baby. Commi still fcuk you, guys :-) But in more elegant way now.

Quote

Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.


Someone here talk about democracy and legitime president?

Quote

"Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

 Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).


TADAM!!! Thats why you decline Hirosima butchering.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2005-01-21/cols_ventura.html

What do you think about this? :-)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 03:52:18 AM by Raven_2 »

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Question to Finns
« Reply #337 on: March 15, 2005, 04:04:54 AM »
Well if you think that America scores so low and russia is perhaps one tenth of that level, I know what it tells about russia. ;)

Offline mora

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Question to Finns
« Reply #338 on: March 15, 2005, 04:10:32 AM »
You are a fountain of BS Raven. Just for example, what does a healthcare system of a country have to do with democracy? Or the fact that some people don't care to vote? If they are ignoring their right to vote, how the hell can you blame the goverment for that?

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #339 on: March 15, 2005, 04:30:30 AM »
to Siaf

>>Well if you think that America scores so low and russia is perhaps one tenth of that level, I know what it tells about russia.

You missed my line here, Siaf. Russia the way worser. But "America is N1" - it`s a lie :-)

to mora

>>Just for example, what does a healthcare system of a country have to do with democracy?

by Siaf:
>>No raven democracy means good life.

Good life without healthcare system? Like in South Afrika?

>>Or the fact that some people don't care to vote? If they are ignoring their right to vote, how the hell can you blame the goverment for that?

LOL. Bush rule by will of < 1/3 of americans. You call this legitime and democratic?

About BS. It`s not I, but:
The Week
New York Times
Associated Press
The European Dream
and more and more.

But sure, I think they full of BS and you read this BS every day :-)

to mora and Siaf

79,279,000 of americans *don`t care* who would be their president. Is this a democratic kind of thinking, guys?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 04:41:08 AM by Raven_2 »

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Question to Finns
« Reply #340 on: March 15, 2005, 04:39:51 AM »
It's pretty obvious that you're not familiar with democratic voting procedures.

In most countries people can choose to vote or not to vote. Those who choose to use thier right will vote and the percentage of the cast votes will make the election.

The amount of people who vote is usually the lower the higher the standard of living people have. If you don't have severe problems in your society you don't need to take a stand either.

In its way it's democratic to give a voter also a choice to abstain from voting although it's said it's everyones civil responsibility to vote.

Offline Raven_2

  • Parolee
  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Question to Finns
« Reply #341 on: March 15, 2005, 05:36:05 AM »
to Sciaf

>>It's pretty obvious that you're not familiar with democratic voting procedures.

I know voiting procedures. And I know Russian constitution.

>>The amount of people who vote is usually the lower the higher the standard of living people have. If you don't have severe problems in your society you don't need to take a stand either.

Well, there were 0% voiting people in USSR, so our standarts of living were much higher the in USA. according to your words :-)

Democracy it`s when governmnent do what people whant (I simplicate meaning of a termin). All people are equal by born. So, "what people want" means "what biggest part of people whant", at least 51%. And in USA biggest part, 44% just don`t care!

According to "democracy" definition by wikipedia:
Quote

Under such a system, legislative decisions are made by the people themselves or by representatives who act through the consent of the people, as enforced by elections and the rule of law.

In practical effect, this definition generally comes with qualifications and limitations. In most modern democratic nations, for example, the set of citizens who can exercise these powers through voting are restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older. A further qualification is that, realistically, in elections, decisions are not made by the whole of "the people," but rather by most of the people who actually participate.

"by most of the people". And if "most of the people", about half, don`t care? Still election would be legitime? And it`s normal for you when half of the people don`t care about government foreign and social politic?

Maybe, democracy for you it`s just a set of laws called constitution and nothing more?

BTW,
Quote

The word democracy originates from the Greek δημοκρατíα from δημος meaning "the people", plus κρατειν meaning "to rule", and the suffix íα; the term therefore means "rule by the people." The term is also sometimes used as a measurement of how much influence a people has over their government, as in how much democracy exists. Anarchism and communism (as in the final stage of social development according to Marxist theory) are social systems that employ a form of direct democracy, and have no state independent of the people themselves.

so, communism IS democracy :-) LOL :-) I love this sophistic magic of definitions :-)

And when Europe fight with communism, they fight with democracy :-) And USA was biggest democracy-hater in the world :-) LOL :-) Magic transformations :-)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 05:43:39 AM by Raven_2 »

Offline Siaf__csf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
Question to Finns
« Reply #342 on: March 15, 2005, 06:23:09 AM »
We were / are fighting communist dictatorships not communism itself. There are communist parties still in many countries.

Quote
Well, there were 0% voiting people in USSR, so our standarts of living were much higher the in USA. according to your words :-)


Elections with only 1 forced candidate are not democratic elections. So yours doesn't apply. I'm talking about the normal universe.

Even in US over 50% of the population voted so the result was clear. One candidate does not need over 50% of the whole population behind him to win. Only in Baghdad/russia you get 100% of votes behind you and declare it democratic decision. :)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2005, 06:28:12 AM by Siaf__csf »

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Question to Finns
« Reply #343 on: March 15, 2005, 08:11:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, the graves are there and they have Poles with 9mm holes in the back of their heads.


9mm holes.

You finaly admit that it was not Soviet crime.

Dismissed.

Oh no, you'll say now about "unreliable Nagant revolvers" that overheated during the executions. :rofl

Evil Eeeevil Russians have set everything up so that after nazis capture Smolensk (unthinkable in 1940) - it will be obvious for everyone that poor Poles were killed from German weapons in a German way (bullet in the back of the head, while NKVD practiced shooting in the neck spine). You know, we, Russians are evil geniuses, eeevil Stalin planned it all in advance!
:rofl

Toad, your only argument in every discussion is that everyone knows how evil those Russians are, and whatever they do is evil and their only motivation is their evilness.

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Question to Finns
« Reply #344 on: March 15, 2005, 08:14:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Do they have multiple parties? are people able to create new parties?


Fishu, I am sorry, but there are at least two political parties in DPRK.

:lol

I love this western ignorance ;)