Numbers on the TA152 are quite low I'm sure
I think i read somewhere around 160 ro 170, but this is from memory, not sure if its correct, or im mistaking it for something else.Less than 50 Ta152s were built.
Ah, one of my all-times faves, the Whirlwind...it looks like a mossie that went on a diet.
(http://www.military.cz/british/air/war/fighter/whirlwind/whirl_inflbw.jpg)
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2115L.jpg)
(http://kits.kitreview.com/images/5_dia1.jpg)
Another old Whirlwind thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,237815.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,237815.0.html)
it looks like a mossie that went on a diet.
how would it fair against the mossie fighter/p38's/110s and any other twin engined fighters in the game?
it looks like a mossie that went on a diet.It only climbs 1,500 fpm (slower than a 110c) and only holds 60 rounds per cannon,
how would it fair against the mossie fighter/p38's/110s and any other twin engined fighters in the game?
Less than 50 Ta152s were built.
+1 just because it looks smurfy and it is British :D
i did say ugly with an f oops . :o
I have a schematic for the Mark I which hints at leading edge slats. I also can't confirm if the props contra-rotated, I know this was accommodated with the Peregrine engine. Anyone have some good literature on it?
P.S. Sorry Bino, I didn't read your link until after I posted. I have inadvertently replicated some data here. :salute
Secondly regarding the twin engines, I only have a single throttle and have most always flown single-engined planes so I just don't know, but is it possible to turn one engine off at a time with Aces High or to have say one engine at half power and the other on full power with WEP for example?Yes, you can select an engine and the throttle, and other engine commands, will only affect that engine. Default is having all engines selected at once though.
Thank you Karnak. So given two separate throttles you can work each engine completely separately, engine off and on and WEP and so on simultaneously?Correct. It is one of the things that makes me want the new Thrustmaster stick and throttle so much.
Less than 50 Ta152s were built.
I found this picture on the website of the R.A.F. Museum:-
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3048/1940596411wwhirlwind.jpg)
You can see the open radiator flaps and get an idea of how small it was for a twin-engined fighter when you see the men standing next to it. You can also just see the rear view mirror at the top of the canopy.
I'm still very curious if anyone can explain the net resultant torque effect question. I'm trying to read up but it quickly degenerates into Mathematics, which is a language I have trouble with :cry
Thank you Karnak. So given two separate throttles you can work each engine completely separately, engine off and on and WEP and so on simultaneously?
Does it at least help with wingovers Soulyss? You P-38 lot have contra-rotating props though, aren't I right in thinking that they both turn outwards? Reading about twins doesn't that kind of make both engines the critical one in the case of failure?
Are there any Mosquito specialists that use a dual throttle?
I found a few more images for those who are interested.The 3rd photo looks like there hispano 20mm :)
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8744/whirlwind72.jpg)
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4567/whirlwind77.jpg)
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3563/whirlwind36.jpg)
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3813/whirlwind31.jpg)
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3456/post21094183939.jpg)
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9479/whirlwind26.jpg)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4756/whirlwind25.jpg)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1047/a02787.jpg)
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7229/whirlwinddatabase1.jpg)
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6451/whirlwinddatabase2.jpg)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3643/whirlwinddatabase3.jpg)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4060/whirlwinddatabase4.jpg)
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5898/whirlwinddatabase5.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3235/whirlwinddatabase6.jpg)
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7289/whirlwinddatabase7.jpg)
I have also some parts of blueprints with aerofoil sections, spars and so on. Also a few details like the control rods for the manual slats etc. There are also two more videos of original footage, surely the last of those.
The 3rd photo looks like there hispano 20mm :)
Someone say Beaufighter?Now Guppy, how much mud moving would you do with that Beaufighter? I bet you'd spend more time spreading Beau parts over the landscape trying to use it as a fighter than moving mud with it.
Now Guppy, how much mud moving would you do with that Beaufighter? I bet you'd spend more time spreading Beau parts over the landscape trying to use it as a fighter than moving mud with it.
It only climbs 1,500 fpm (slower than a 110c) and only holds 60 rounds per cannon,
so the same firing time as a Spit V, not too good.
so, no gunner=not as good as 110?
but 2 engines=better than spit V?
The Whirlwind has no gunner, which means no tail cover, which means not as good as the Me 110, but it has 2 engines, which means room for one failure, which is an area lacking in a Spit v.:huh
:huh
the tail gunner on the 110 is of little to no use, it barely can defend the 110, and is basically a BB gun.
Most 110 pilots find it more of a hinderance, and dump the ammo out of it on takeoff as an attempt to shed some weight.
Are we talking about sustained turn rate? Some flaps produce an enormous amount of drag compared with lift, and engine power alone will not compensate.Thats it. Maybe the fowler design is producing less drag, allowing the engine to pull the plane around quicker in the sustained?
I think it was a sound design let down by engines which were approaching the end of their developmental lifespan, whereas the Merlin series was just starting out, and the airframe couldn't accommodate a larger unit, so that was the end of that. Regardless the aircraft did make a long and valid contribution to Britain's war effort.
For Aces High my feeling is that the criteria of 'world beater' is a poor measure for whether an aircraft should be included or not, or indeed if it would be fun to fly and fight in or not.
Just remember that the Whirlwind didn't really amount to much. The engines were poor and unreliable and frankly the service record was poor. Had she been a world beater, you can bet there would have been more of them. As she wasn't a world beater, there were not more of them :)How many 109 g-6s were built? Was it a world beater aircraft? ;)
Yeah but with the Whirlwind you don't need an armorer scurrying around in the weapons bay changing drums in the dark :rockI am pretty sure later Beaufighters had Hispano Mk IIs that were belt fed.
240 rounds in total is still fairly healthy for a fighter, but I suppose no longer firing time than a Spit V. Have to be choosy about your shots.That is the same ammo load as Spitfires Mk VIII, IX, XIV and XVI have for their two cannons and most people consider the Spitfire's ammo load to be light. The Mosquito Mk VI has 700 rounds for its four cannon and that often seems light.
Two different kinds of aircraft really. Where is the most recent Beaufighter request thread? I'll have a read of it.Here you go:
It's got two engines. Good enough for me. :D
AVIA 18/691, "Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials.
I went online and asked for a quote from the public records office to get it copied and put on a CD to send to Hitech. They quoted 199 quid! Now I want the Whirlwind but...
A little aside, they have air combat reports online:
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/ww2aircombat.asp?WT.hp=Air Ministry Combat Reports
AVIA 18/691, "Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials.
Bump!great, shida's gonna crazy again :D
I want this :rock
great, shida's gonna crazy again :D
240 rounds in total is still fairly healthy for a fighter, but I suppose no longer firing time than a Spit V. Have to be choosy about your shots.
S.A.P.P needs a dedicated adversary, so adding the bird means S.W.A.T. (Secret Whirlwind Association for Tards) could be formed; may be be even name it W.H.E.A.T.I.E.S.?
Any sexy aircraft with two engines gets my vote :aok
Like this? :D
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/B-17/C119FlyingBoxcar.jpg)
They must pay their staff a good rate for scanning documents! I'll have to get a job up there.
Like this? :D
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/B-17/C119FlyingBoxcar.jpg)
Don't think he's a chubby chaser, sorry
What if you cross the mossie and the 262?
You get the Whirlwind!
I am also amazed by the positive response in this thread, just seems like there are so many aircraft that must come first (the community seems to assert), although I honestly think the Crikey would be a lot of fun and a real challenge.This will prob become the new Beau-level requested aircraft after the beu gets added, then hangered. :uhoh
This will prob become the new Beau-level requested aircraft after the beu gets added, then hangered. :uhoh
What says the Beau will be a hangar queen? :rolleyes:Give me a good reason to take a Beau over a mossie? and it cant be "because it has an itty bitty torp!".
Tyrannis only speaks for late war uber plane lovers.
I'd be happier than a dog with two tails if we got the Whirlwind, but I just don't see it happening chaps, not after the recent plane pole and discussions about holes in the planeset :cry
Tyrannis only speaks for late war uber plane lovers.This is where your wrong.
You fail in the sense that you looked at only last month, instead of overall. :rolleyes:
Tyrannis Sorties per arena last month: :D
EW 30
MW 3
LW 49
:ahand
Thats for jacking the Whirlwind thread and going off on the beau :t
PURSE FIGHT!!!! Tyrannis VS. The other people here who know that the Beau has value. :banana:Atleast these people can put up a valid argument against me. ;)
+1 for the whirlwind/beaufighter.
Atleast these people can put up a valid argument against me. ;)id like to see one good "valid" argument you've ever made.
Still waiting on someone to tell me how the Beau wont be a hanger queen. Not seeing anything so far. (Other than the scenarios part, and the few nostalgic crowd who may fly it for a bit)
Atleast these people can put up a valid argument against me. ;)just ask the B.O.S.S guys.
Still waiting on someone to tell me how the Beau wont be a hanger queen. Not seeing anything so far. (Other than the scenarios part, and the few nostalgic crowd who may fly it for a bit)
just ask the B.O.S.S guys.B.O.S.S?
Skorpion, really? Really? Go marry him!
end of the hijack, this thread is about this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Westland_Whirlwind_prototype.jpg)
B.O.S.S?
no kidding
Skorpion, really? Really? Go marry him!
B-239 Brewster, 44 delivered- 400+ kills vs very inexperienced and very poorly led Russian aircraft
......
Anyhow out of all these rides the Westland Whirlwind served much longer and arguably impacted WW2 more than any of the above
How would the Whirlwind compare against the Ki-45?
How would the Whirlwind compare against the Ki-45?
In a 1v1 my money is on the Whirly. From what I have read about both planes it seams that the Ki-45 was no match for P-40s in a dogfight but the whirly went head to head with 109 and 190s and managed to hold their own.
For attack roll the Ki45 would take that as the weapon load out is impressive, though having a 37mm gun on the nose would degrade performence somewhat.
The whirlwind is a very clean body and if it holds its E like a mossie does, this could be a very deadly fighter in the right hands.
+1 It would be a monster in Early War and very respectable in Mid :aok
Nice pic nrshida.
Come on now, we only need 100 blokes to donate £1 ($1.50 exchange rate?) each to get the performance and handling file scanned from the public records office. Then send it off to Hitech and we should have it about 2 weeks after that? You know it makes sense! :)
Nice pic nrshida.
Come on now, we only need 100 blokes to donate £1 ($1.50 exchange rate?) each to get the performance and handling file scanned from the public records office. Then send it off to Hitech and we should have it about 2 weeks after that? You know it makes sense! :)
You can photograph the documents, theres a reference to switching off flash in the do's and dont's of visiting and looking at the archives. Is there a charge for physically fetching the document for you? I couldn't see anything referring to one.
100+ delivered flew for almost 4 years from 1939-1943, mostly ground attack :aok
Just for fun comparisons F4U-1C, 200 delivered 1943-1944 almost exclusively ground attack
P47M 130 delivered late 1944, many many problems with this model initially, 15 confirmed air to air victories
B-239 Brewster, 44 delivered- 400+ kills vs very inexperienced and very poorly led Russian aircraft
Less than 100 ME163s were delivered
From the info I can't find it seems the spitfire mk16 was delivered in very low #s by the end of the war, I also believe "the lions share" was relegated to ground attack <-- I could be wrong here. Info on the mk16 is very hard to find. for me anyhow
Numbers on the TA152 are quite low I'm sure
Anyhow out of all these rides the Westland Whirlwind served much longer and arguably impacted WW2 more than any of the above
Soooooooooooooo lets have it :aok
:cheers:
JUGgler
I would consider it a fun job. Happy to pay for the travelling myself. Someone email me with details (e.g. Name of document needed, format(s), where to go, who to see and/or website info etc.). I can't do much until the New Year (Jan) but it shouldn't be a problem.
I might even get the files for the Wellington, Halifax, Sunderland, Defiant, Swordfish if needed ... ?
Or how about the uber killing machine, the Fairey Battle! (... or rather the uber killed machine ... :)
I would consider it a fun job.
would make an interesting target to shot at :t +1
would make an interesting target to shot at :t +1
I have phone camera only. I want to investigate paper copies as I can scan them at work, which would be better than letting an amateur try to take pics. I don't know if the demi-gods at Hitech would like paper copies as well as digital. It all depends on the document size (i.e. number of pages). Also, I didn't realise what else you can get there, so I want to dive in and learn about it.
Look at the birdie and smile, please ignore the flash surfinn :lol
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3563/whirlwind36.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/tombstone.gif)
Any place like this in the States? If so, I know where my next vacation is lol.
Library of Congress?
My intention is to scan and then send them to the Gods at AH (if they want copies)
How much did they charge for the paper copies Martyn?
I would think the British equivalent of the storch would be the Auster? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dig out the files for the Fairery Firefly while your up there!
Where is Nrshida at with all the info on this Bird!!! :joystick:
Why has it not been added!!!! :joystick:
Thanks for your efforts Martyn - we can expect this aircraft to be added in about 2 weeks! :cool:
Re the Firefly. HTC would only need the Mk I stuff as this is the only version that saw combat in WWII. Is that easily sorted or do you have to trawl through loads of stuff to get the data for it?
Send it to me and I'll key it in - 30 years a typesetter! I'll help where needed Martyn.
nrshida, PM me your e-mail.
(a) Flaps depressed about 10⁰, to give maximum cooling position of radiator shutters - 300 m.p.h. A.S.I.
(b) Flap depressed half-way - 200 m.p.h. A.S.I.
(c) Flap fully down for landing - 160 m.p.h. A.S.I.
What is the longest Aces High Mosquito shot on record by the way?Dunno what the longest is, but I've downed a fleeing P-51D at about 1000 yards. I don't think I'd have taken that shot in a Whirlwind though as it doesn't have the Mosquito's ammo load.
Wow, those flap speeds could make this even more fun then I was thinking.
Dunno what the longest is, but I've downed a fleeing P-51D at about 1000 yards. I don't think I'd have taken that shot in a Whirlwind though as it doesn't have the Mosquito's ammo load.
Just keep climbing young Jo. Four Hispanos mounted in the nose, less than 12 inches apart, tends to negate an awful lot of excess power :old::banana: :airplane:
What is the longest Aces High Mosquito shot on record by the way?
I really really want thisThat's what she said! :bolt:
PLEASE, HTC.......PLEASE????
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tHplFlMD2T4/TbLQUwIukSI/AAAAAAAAB-Y/1sODqCsu0nM/s1600/children-pray-36877775245.jpeg)
(http://allaboutlemon.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/praying-dog.jpg)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6sfq22QFCGOirGVVLWOUfYhbHihgjJc9nobep9BVZ4XrAHHsHpw)
(http://spiritualhealingsource.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Praying-monkey.jpg)
C'mon Dale, I mean, my GOD, we've got praying babies, puppies, kittens, and a praying monkey 'fer Christ sakes!!! What more do you want????
I agree.
If not for the British at that time, who knows what the next few years would have been for far more people.
When I was a child I lived in Luton. My father earned his silver C at the Dunstable Downs gliding the slopes. Tiger Moths and Dragon Rapides are fantastic living art by Mr. Dehavilland which were frequent sights and a ride for me once. I can never forget the smell of warm doped fabric in just mowed feilds. The tiger Moths acted as glider tugs. I was once afforded the privlege as a child of sitting in a spitfire at a war memorial display near the Downs.
For the history and thanks to the brave heros all those years ago, this would be a great addition to the game.
Apparently Classic Aircrames make a model of this aircraft in 1:48th scale but I've been unable to find one for sale on eBay:-
...
The Old Plastic Model Kits (http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php) site lists a special-order 1:32 scale vacuum-formed kit (includes resin and cast metal parts) for US $100. And from the description, it sounds like an expert-modeler kind of kit.
This! For Shida :aok
:cheers:
:bolt:
JUGgler
I recently acquired some of the blueprints:-
Just to clear this up.. did you 'acquire' these, or are you in fact posting the content of the Whirlwind project site, without accreditation and without acknowledgement of the actual copyright holders - in several cases AgustaWestland, and in one ca se - the wing section sketches, me.
Just to clear this up.. did you 'acquire' these, or are you in fact posting the content of the Whirlwind project site, without accreditation and without acknowledgement of the actual copyright holders - in several cases AgustaWestland, and in one ca se - the wing section sketches, me.
Yes, we are approaching our interest in different ways, and it would be great to work together on this. The thing about the Westland design drawings is we are concerned not to upset AgustaWestland - it is their blessing that gives us a much better chance of this succeeding than previous attempts at this 'holy grail' project. Legal copyright is a moot point, but we wish to remain on the side of the angels regardless!
I just want to add that I promise I will fly this exclusively for a full tour as soon as it's added :pray
Don't know if this has been posted before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0COSZvwT518
Some links to Whirly project clips there as well.
I too begin to hanker for this bird.
It's probably been brought up but is there any aircraft we have in AH that we could reasonably compare performance to?
If we one day get the Crikey added to Aces High, perhaps you could also give us a mention on your website. Some of us would be more than willing to give training to members of the project as a special gesture (this game has a very steep learning curve). Just have them quote the special secret discount code: '219DownWithSausagePlanes' :lol
I heard the installation of the mirror is for zack1234 to make sure his hair is still looking good.
Zack's got dreadlocks, his hair always looks good. :old:
Control column is also the same. Interestingly I think you can see the Whirlwind would have better frontal visibility (as the 'What Fighter 1940' review found) if you use the two shoulder rails and main six gauge instrument panel as reference.
I must admit Matt, I find AgustaWestland's Copyright claim to be tenuous in the extreme
Wouldn't the Welkin be similar to the Mossie Mk. 30The Welkin was conceived due to the appearance of the Ju 86 high alt bomber (which never really eventuated). It was armed with four Hispano cannon and had a pressurised cockpit and was capable of 420mph at 40k.
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/61a354ab3b1a844a13573afee738f62033892c5jpg.gif) The Welkin sucks arse! It hasn't even got any slats. Rubbish! :old:sorry for the highjack, I just thought it made an interesting footnote.
Gentlemen, I've come to a conclusion about said Westland Whirlwind.
Awesome ain't it? Just look at those nacelles on it. You definitely would wouldn't you Redbull, be honest. :banana:Well...I dunno if I am honest is kinda...well...OK fine
You would think after 24 pages of mostly positive reviews they would consider at least making a poll with it :noid
I love you Redbull. I just wanted you to know that :banana:I love you too, but I can't cheat on zack. :cry :confused:
I love you too, but I can't cheat on zack. :cry :confused:
Wow many thanks Lyric :rock
We can still dream about winging Westland Whirlwinds together over Tank Town and dying heroically together like those poor old chaps in the channel dash :banana:
I love you Redbull. I just wanted you to know that :banana:
WOW, now I am jealous.JUG it's nothing personal, but I think he prefers the size of my K4's taters to the size of your 110's rear 7.7mm :uhoh
I have virtually by my lonesome reached deep down in the goo that is "past threads" to dig this out and keep it alive only to have you give your love to another!
Heart broken, true pain and disbelief.
It was all for you shida :cry :cry
Is his shoe size bigger? :(
JUGgler
WOW, now I am jealous.
I have virtually by my lonesome reached deep down in the goo that is "past threads" to dig this out and keep it alive only to have you give your love to another!
Heart broken, true pain and disbelief.
It was all for you shida :cry :cry
Is his shoe size bigger? :(
JUGgler
I'd really like to see what might happen in a "what-if" Battle Of Britain FSO event with some Whirlwinds. *sigh*
This is me pining for the Peregrines.
So if you get this thingy, will you promise to be quiet and quit pestering Hitech??C!!!!!!!
A. YES
B. NO
C. SQUIRRLE!!!
So if you get this thingy, will you promise to be quiet and quit pestering Hitech??
A. YES
B. NO
C. SQUIRRLE!!!
C. Boomerang!!! :airplane:
Who punted this?
+1
awful lot of factual information about the Crikey.
-Below 5000 m the Whirlwind could out-climb both Spitfire and Hurricane. Maximum speed was almost equal than that of the Spitfire, but it was faster than the Hurricane. In spite of its higher wing loading and larger dimensions it could out-turn both Spitfire and Hurricane by using differential throttle settings of the both engines. Above 5000 m both Spitfire and Hurricane were superior on all points!
Which model spitfire are they comparing this to???Spitfire Mk Ia most likely.
Spitfire Mk Ia most likely.
The Whirlwind used Rolls-Royce Kestrel engines that were at the end of their development potential and were unreliable. Westland's decision to use Kestrels left no development path forward that didn't require extensive and expensive redesign to use the heavier Merlin engines. That doomed the Whirlwind's longtime viability.
Well I agree with you that wikipedia can be cobblers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_(fighter)
but it does say it ended service in 1943 and only 2 squadrons flew it. 6000 Beaufighters were built, I'm not sure if that includes the DAP Beaufighter. Still I don't disagree, it's a lovely plane and would look good in AH.
I am pretty sure that in a duel the Whirlwind would dominate a Beaufighter. It is probably a better fighter than any twin engined fighter in the game other than the P-38s and Mossie for duels. Might even be better than the P-38G and Mossie for duels, but I suspect their speed and climb rates would overpower it.
No, probably not.
I do suspect we'll see a Beaufighter sooner rather than later though. The last vote placed like so:
1) Me410
2) Yak-3
3) Beaufighter
4) Meteor
There is a funny thing about the planes in the #1 and #2 spots.....
As to threads, there is a Beaufighter thread that is more than twice as long if I recall correctly.
For what its worth, I'd personally get more use out of the Whirlwind.
I think we all know what to expect from the Whirlwind, it's an airframe introduced in 1940 and not developed any further, so it will certainly struggle in the LWMA.
I'll wing with you Reaper, if and when it arrives :banana:
Will it as awesome as the 410?
If you mean it won't be the ride of choice for runners, you're right. It will also "struggle" in that the ammo count will mean those with poor aim will be bingo sooner rather than later.
Beyond that, I don't see it "struggling" any more than the Brewster, Ki-43, or Hurri IIc. Excellent turning ability, excellent low speed handling, deadly lethal cannon package, great views, robust airframe with twin engine survivability.... think of it as a small, slower Mossie that turns like a Brewster.
It will be a challenging aircraft in the LWMA, and you won't see many of the "avoid a fight at all costs" flyers in them.
I'm totally OK with that.
Don't vote Hitech out dropping this thing on us as the HTC random choice for whatever reasons he has decided we need something. Not to insult this audience but, look at the Brewster and the years of effort by a few. Then one day there it was. The Whirlwind will probably be a watch what you ask for, it may not be what you expected moment. He111 comes to mind.
After such a long post over this ride. The posts in the first week after it's introduced should be epic. I have to admit from a LWMA standpoint. I'm not sure what you would use it for, other than to showcase your real expertise and skill for translating ACM prowess into any ride you choose. That would be worth seeing. I doubt this will be a beginners ride.
As for the Beau. Historically it has a good place waiting for it in the game. Maybe your bribe deliveries aren't making it to the new office in Ft. Worth........
You're absolutely right JUGler, the lack of activity on the Aces High homepage is a clear indication that the Whirlwind is nearly ready for release. :banana: :joystick: :old:
Lies! They're hard at work on my Ki-100! :noid
Oh I'm also with you on that wish Revo (actually more likely) I've touched the last existent Ki-100 and it hums with human history.
But, the Whirlwind is a sexy beast and would be the ultimate eccentric experienced gentleman's ride, what? :old:
Please, please, please tell me you have photos of this experience. *drool*
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296722.0.html
I may be a dedicated Luftweenie, but the Ki-61 was my first true love in Aces High. That is a beautiful aircraft..
That aircraft has now been moved and is on display at R.A.F. Cosford. My Brother got a photograph inside the cockpit, sorry for the bad quality, but well, if you saw how he got it...
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/Ki-100Cockpit_zps43c976b5.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/Ki-100Cockpit_zps43c976b5.jpg.html)
I can't say, we'd be blacklisted from future visits to the R.A.F. museum. You should of seen what he did to the Mosquito :bolt:
Was he doing a little wing walking? :noid
+1,000,000!!:uhoh My eyes But still... +1
Before you knock it compared to what we already have, remember the Whirlwind was essentially a 1930s design and an attempt to answer the demand for heavier fighter armament. A Teddy Petter design it typically had some notable features for its day. One of the first fighter aircraft with a bubble canopy (with rear-view mirror incorporated), less frontal area than a Hurricane, excellent handling characteristics and large Fowler flaps (for which the rear section of the nacelles also tipped downwards, see photo). What the pictures don't illustrate is the diminutive size, it was only slightly larger than some of the single-engine fighters of the day. Quickly nickname the Crikey for its (comparatively) high speed!
Powered by a development of an even earlier Rolls Royce V12, it was originally thought that the compact (but troublesome) Peregrine engine would eventually become the standard fighter engine for the forthcoming war until the Merlin replaced it. Shows how quickly was the pace of development in those times. Spitfires and Hurricanes mounting cannon and Rolls Royce discontinuing manufacture of the Peregrine marked the end of this promising design.
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7442/fa18171s.jpg)
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5581/fa18174s.jpg)
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6057/fa18181s.jpg)
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9750/fa18166s.jpg)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7132/fa18175s.jpg)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/202/fa18461s.jpg)
:uhoh My eyes But still... +1
Think this would be perked in Early war?
~S~ Buck
Bring on the twins!
We just got the Tu-2 and "recently" the 410. Now the stage is set to get the Whirlwind and Beaufighter!
... and mossies, MOAR mossies! F.II, FB.XVIII, F.XXX, B.V...
I'd +1 this after an Italian and Soviet bomber. Early war perkie bird? Maybe.(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Throwing-up-vomit-puke-sick-smiley-emoticon-000652-facebook.gif)
(http://www.simon-lissaman.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Westland_Whirlwind1.jpg)
(http://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/whirlwind2jm3.gif)
Been missing for a while. Do we haz the Crikey yet? :banana:
I llike it and I really don't care if it ends up in the hangar for most of the MA play. What will be really kewl is using it in scenario play in its hysterical role.
By that standard, I also say: Blenheim.
Lest we forget!
JUGgler
I would do so gladly.
Move along Luftweenie, this isn't the thread you're looking for. :old:
Lest we forget!
I was wondering JUGgler, you fly a P-47 as I recall and are American I think. Why do you personally like the Whirlwind?
Maybe for the same reason that I, an American F4U fan, think the Sparviero would be a good addition to AH. (And why I promoted the I-16, the He-111 and currently promote the Yamato, Shokaku, the D4Y and the B6N).
Bit unaesthetic bud :eek:
Not convinced that's a prime qualifier for legitimacy. Have you seen a Stuka? ;)
Another 'ugly plane' I advocate:
(http://f1.fsm.wikidi.com/aq/aa/fx/e2e79726e35bd306a31ab452f39b4cabcd97e38e.jpg)
I would love to see this but the B25J needs to be here first along with many othersB-25J isn't even in the same conversation as the Whirlwind. It is just a new version of an existing airframe. Whirlwind exists in the conversation with things like the Beaufighter, Meteor, Ki-45, J2M, Ki-44, G.55, SM.79-II and Pe-2, you know, airframes that are completely without representation in the game.
I just always bring the B25 J up due to the fact the C is a sitting duck and the H is just dumb IMOWhich is appropriate in a discussion about which variants of existing airframes in AH to add, but the work load to add a variant is far lower than the workload to add a new plane so they are not comparable.
what about the aircraft that were made in far greater quantities and have a place in this game...but are not here....like ju-52,ju-188.j2m3,g-55,he-177,sm-79,british tanks,grant tank,just to name a few.
what about the aircraft that were made in far greater quantities and have a place in this game...but are not here....like ju-52,ju-188.j2m3,g-55,he-177,sm-79,british tanks,grant tank,just to name a few.Wishing for the whirlwind does not exclude any other plane from being added.
who said anything about excluding any plane....but look at the time frame, the last aircraft added was the tu-2...that was january 2014. if we are going to get a new aircraft or vehicle every 1 and a half years.i think there are better aircraft and vehicles to choose from than the swirlwind...but hey, keep it on the list. it may appear in the year 2134.What makes you think the time HTC is working on AH3 can be used to predict the rate at which units will be added once v3.00 is released? That seems a fairly absurd position to hold.
who said anything about excluding any plane....but look at the time frame, the last aircraft added was the tu-2...that was january 2014. if we are going to get a new aircraft or vehicle every 1 and a half years.i think there are better aircraft and vehicles to choose from than the swirlwind...but hey, keep it on the list. it may appear in the year 2134.
A very interesting design that never had the chance to reach its full potentialI absolutely agree. In many ways it is similar to the mosquito, except of course that it was designed for a very different purpose. The next Brit twin engine Fighter was the DH Hornet - the evolution of the mossie into a single seat day Fighter. It was a total monster. I imagine the whirlwind could have been something similar had it been continued. Too bad that the RAF did not have a real need for a twin day Fighter (and Fighter bomber till the arrival of mossie FB.VI). It would have been interesting to see its development.
Which is appropriate in a discussion about which variants of existing airframes in AH to add, but the work load to add a variant is far lower than the workload to add a new plane so they are not comparable.
Who wants to join a dedicated Whirlwind squadron for the MA when it gets included? :banana:
Here's an interesting thought. The neighbouring Beaufighter wishlist thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,255408.0.html) has been viewed 67,788 times and this one 34,262 so far (2:1). However the production figures are 5,928 Beaufighters to 114 Whirlwinds (52:1!). I'd have thought the Whirlwind a far less known / interesting aircraft.
That would have been great in my time :old:
The Whirlwind would see a lot more use in the MA. I'd guess that near the deck it would be faster than anything that could out turn it and out turn anything faster, plus its got counter-rotating props, a bubble canopy and four nose-mounted Hizookas. It ought to have a popularity in the MA out of all proportion to its RL importance to the RAF.
Its way too slow to be an uberplane but there are still people who fly Zeroes, Brewsters, Spits and Hurricanes in the MA and this thing would be a menace to them all.
Even the bore and zoom brigade...
It ought to be a great field defence aircraft. Shame about the lack of counter rotating engines though.
Who wants to join a dedicated Whirlwind squadron for the MA when it gets included? :banana:
If you are the CO, I'm in
Sufficient skinning reference material in this thread for you should it be needed Greebo? In the extremely unlikely event it's needed
What I'm generally looking for first when I start a new skin template is a panel line diagram that also shows the rivet layout. Also photos of the aircraft to compare to HTC's shape, as well as photos and diagrams of details like the gear and inner gear doors etc. Photos showing camouflage schemes and weathering are not a priority at this stage but are stored for later.
While I'd love to see it in the game I just can't see it being introduced any time soon.
I stole the blueprints and put them here. Does this show the panel lines and rivets well enough?:-
Some nice profiles courtesy of Fish42 on this page:-
That would be enough info to base a template on. There's more variation of camo schemes than I was expecting too, given there's only a couple of squadrons to choose from.
I think the rarity of the Whirlwind is what will prevent it getting in, HTC only seem to do rare types if they are German or American...... ;)
I hope it does get in and I think there is plenty of info here for the external shape to be created. I'd much rather see this than say a Meteor.
Can't say what level of data is needed to determine flight or damage modelling but British planes tend to be well documented in this regard. From past experience one of the things that can be an issue for HTC with aircraft that no longer exist in a museum somewhere is finding info for the internal cockpit art. Not just the dashboard, but what the seat, floor, control column, pedals, minor controls, cockpit back and sides looked like.
This link is easier for the gunsight.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Whirlwind_cockpit_07-2.jpg)
The reticle is the standard RAF 100mph ring with range and wing span bar. It had an orange diffuser which would cause that large orange outline glow you see in online pictures when the brightness knob was full up.
I recently duplicated that effect for AH3.
Let's see! Let's see! :banana: :banana: :banana:
I predict some genius at using the obvious like with F3 and the IL2, will have this thing turned into the next impossibly magical UFO turny thing with BFG9000 firepower. Then the A6m, Brewster and Yak3 will become distant memories while the perk the MagicSWhirly crowed uses up miles of forum posts trying to get it perked.
With 4 hispanos in the nose, not getting that thing on your first BnZ pass may be your last because hispanos are good to about 1200. With those flaps and slats, think of it as a British flying wirbelwind.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, it just hovers and hoses you. It has to be perked, only sissies and weenies fly a wirbel and "hover hose". Oh the inhumanity of it all, what was Hitech thinking. This is the real end of the game and any kind of real ACM.........
And there will be a cadre of pilots who will develop a skillset to counter the "hover hose" while making fun of the perk it crowd....... :ahand
Will it be as craptacular as the other two engine "fighters"?what are you suggesting?
The Whirlwind will make people cry.
I seem to recall the slats were wired shut? I could be mistaken so plz correct me,if it's true I wonder if HTC would bother with modeling them.
Thoughts???
Will it be as craptacular as the other two engine "fighters"?Hope your not talking about the 110 and 410. Although the 110 flies circles around its older brothers
That is absurd. The mosquito and P-38 rule supreme in the MA if there is half a competent pilot behind the wheel. Even the 410 can be dangerous in the hands of a dedicated pilot as Torquilla demonstrated - repeatedly. It is true that in the hands of someone who flew nothing other than La7s, these planes are like buses. The terrains of AH are littered with pieces of La7s that thought the mosquito is a bus.
The Whirlwind will make people cry.
Greebo,
Your explanations being very precise and informative, will be trumped by emotions until all the kapowi, whizbang, steroid monsters from WW2 are introduced. After all that, you will be told it doesn't need to be introduced because it has no whizbang and failed in WW2 because it couldn't be steroid enhanced like later monsters.
I bet Waffle will have fun making this one and reading the whines from the whizbang kids that Hitech is killing the game introducing losers.
The P-63 saw very little, if any, action in WW2. The Whirlwind only equipped a couple of squadrons but was used extensively by them for a period of two and a half years.
It is also a very different aircraft to any other twin in the game. Its AH equivalents are planes like the Hurri IIC or Spit V, not the Mossie or P-38.
I think all the high volume planes have been covered, so new additions will all be low use. My question is if the gun package is the the same as a SPitV or a HurryIIc why is anyone going to take a whirlwind up instead of either of those two? :salute
I think the attributes and predicted characteristics of the Whirlwind have been covered sufficiently in this thread if you care to take your time and read through it. Respectfully Vikman, I think your best bet to have your favourite plane included is to make a similar, comprehensive wishlist thread instead of using this thread as leverage.
I did read it. This comment gets to the reasons for adding planes, which Buster and Greebo were making the case for. Valid question
Shida, did you just poo poo a poo poo?! :old:
Frankly your approach seems a little disingenuous and, well, lazy. You can't swan in, poo poo a decent thread, the result of considerable hard work from a lot of people for a long time, because you'd prefer something else. Well you can, I can't imagine it working though.
Naturally :old:Well, I hope so, Shida. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
I learned that it's a slower, worse turning Mossie with less ammo.
I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error!
I learned that it's a slower, worse turning Mossie with less ammo. I wonder, who then is going to take one out of the hangar other than people who think it looks cool? Maybe that's enough. :salute
That was technically a field mod when they moved to Whirlybomber mode. Same business with the 109: there was a wiggle as they opened. There is an erroneous report that the slats made the wings snap off. That originates in a post-war 'journalistic' article. There's no evidence that that ever hapened and the Whirlwind operated for a long time with the Handley Page Slats fully operational.
Certainly those that fought and died in the channel dash were pre-Whirybomber, full slats.
I think all the high volume planes have been covered, so new additions will all be low use. My question is if the gun package is the the same as a SPitV or a HurryIIc why is anyone going to take a whirlwind up instead of either of those two? :salutePe-2, Wellington, Beaufighter, D4Y, B6N, SB2C, Ki-45, SB-2, Do-17, Ju188, Do217, He177, Halifax, Sterling.
So I did read that the slats were wired shut,just that it was done in the field.
Another question,did the peregrine engine use the same or similar carburation to the early merlins,as in a nonpressurized deal that would cut out under neg G's?
I think you may be getting the Beaufighter and Whirlwind a little mixed up. The Beaufighter would essentially be a slower, worse turning and climbing Mossie, although tougher and with a little more firepower and the ability to carry a torpedo. The Whirlwind was a much smaller and lighter aircraft than these two and was by all accounts very maneuverable, more in line with a Hurri II or a Spit V. The Hurri II gets used and that is slower than a Whirlwind, nothing with four Hispanos is going to be a hangar queen.
I'd class the P-63 with other end of the war uber planes like the F7F, F8F and He 162 which would have an impact on the game out of all proportion to their miniscule effect on WW2. There are very few fighters that saw significant service in WW2 left to model that would also be competitive in the MA but I can think of a few. There is the Gloster Meteor, the Fiat G.55 and the Ki 100. If you include variants of existing rides there is the high-alt Mosquito Mk 30 and the Mustang Mk IA, which was the RAF's four cannon variant of the P-51A. The Allison Mustangs were very fast below 10K where most MA fighting is done.
... don't misrepresent what is left to be added or project your desires onto the rest of us.
you do know this wish was started May 21st 2011- 6 years ago? if they didn't do it by now it ain't gonna happen
you do know this wish was started May 21st 2011- 6 years ago? if they didn't do it by now it ain't gonna happen6 earth years is not even 1 year on the planet where HT is from.
6 earth years is not even 1 year on the planet where HT is from.
He is now at page 5 or so of this thread.
:old:
I could see having the WesWirl if early and mid war arenas were back. If I remember it was Fall 1940 that they went operational.
I could see having the WesWirl if early and mid war arenas were back. If I remember it was Fall 1940 that they went operational.
Hope they get their Beaufighter too.Beau + whirly on the same update = totally kickass awesome!
A mossi6, beau, whirly and 110G show up to mess up a small airfield. How long will that last.......
A mossi6, beau, whirly and 110G show up to mess up a small airfield. How long will that last.......Hours.
Arlo swore if they blew up everything a giant 1000ft tall bottle of Bock Beer would suddenly appear. Look for BEERWEP in the skinviwer.
Bock? Nooooo.
(https://products3.imgix.drizly.com/ci-lone-star-lager-e9fb29f65a821563.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&fm=jpeg&q=20)