Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MachFly on April 07, 2009, 07:18:32 PM
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
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This Isn't "real life". :aok
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This Isn't "real life". :aok
:aok+1
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This Isn't "real life". :aok
+2.
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This Isn't "real life".
It's a simulation
I'm not saying spit16 is the best thing to fly in AH, just wondering what would you all do if you had to fly it in reality?
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It's a game.
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None of us will ever be called up to fly spitfires so it really doesn't matter. I don't care that new people fly the spit16 because they have to learn somehow and the spit16 is very easy to fly. What I really hate is when people who have been here for years fly it instead of moving on to something harder to fly.
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OK
In FSO if you had to fly one, would you say "no it's a noob plane" and not show up?
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just wondering what would you all do if you had to fly it in reality?
I would be very pleased.
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No, If I flew spitfires I just would make fun the the tards who flew hurricanes, :D
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It's a simulation
I'm not saying spit16 is the best thing to fly in AH, just wondering what would you all do if you had to fly it in reality?
I would. Thing Is In Aces High Its an EZ-mode plane that people use cause they refuse to learn. We tend to say GTFO and fly a real plane (Something that requires skill to fly) to help the new people. Its a fun plane to fly just wont catch me In It besides In a duel Is all.
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Thing Is In Aces High Its an EZ-mode plane that people use cause they refuse to learn. We tend to say GTFO and fly a real plane (Something that requires skill to fly) to help the new people.
I understand, that's why I'm not asking how come so few people fly spit16 in MA
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I would actually demand that they give me a 109... I mean its just not fair that the germans get 109s and we get a sissy plane.
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I would demand a Boulton Paul Defiant. Or maybe A Horsa glider or a Fairey Battle... :D
But in this game... I think next tour will be another "dweeb plane" tour. All that talking about lame Spit 16s and lack of virtual ballz and how about players like me are disrespectable when flying a Spit (I'm not a Brit so I'm not allowed to) is really producing a big urge to do so :aok
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OK
In FSO if you had to fly one, would you say "no it's a noob plane" and not show up?
Just once.
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the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
Its only a noob plane if you HO and run in it. :aok
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Its only a noob plane if you HO and run in it. :aok
Isn't that every plane :D
and I like that answer BTW :)
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I would demand a Boulton Paul Defiant. Or maybe A Horsa glider or a Fairey Battle... :D
But in this game... I think next tour will be another "dweeb plane" tour. All that talking about lame Spit 16s and lack of virtual ballz and how about players like me are disrespectable when flying a Spit (I'm not a Brit so I'm not allowed to) is really producing a big urge to do so :aok
If LUSCHE/SNAILMAN can do it...so can I... :D
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It has the reputation of being a noob plane because inexperienced pilots are generally found flying it. And since inexperienced players generally ho, excessively gang, horde, etc...the spit16 is indicted.
That being said, the plane itself is exceptionally leet and anyone with a shred of ability can dominate with it. When you kill somebody, it's typically the plane doing the work, not your actual flying ability. Great plane for learning, but probably not a plane that will get you much respect even if flown well.
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It's a simulation
I'm not saying spit16 is the best thing to fly in AH, just wondering what would you all do if you had to fly it in reality?
+3
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It's a simulation
Pulling a Murdr here but...
What I have said is more along the lines of it is not a simulation of WWII.
HiTech
You can fly whatever you want, but you aren't going to change anyone's mind that it is an easy mode plane.
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In simulated real life, I would not fly a Spit XVI. In real real life I would fly what ever i was assigned to fly.
I mainly don't fly a SpitXVI because, for the most part, I don't really do much better in one than a SpitIX or a Yak and I feel less dweebish getting killed in a P-40 than a SpitXVI.
I do find, however, the occasions I do fly a SpitXVI I seem to get a few more kills before I hit that tree.
But in this game... I think next tour will be another "dweeb plane" tour. All that talking about lame Spit 16s and lack of virtual ballz and how about players like me are disrespectable when flying a Spit (I'm not a Brit so I'm not allowed to) is really producing a big urge to do so :aok
I'm going to do this if I ever get my frame rate issues sorted out. I'm betting I'm not going to see a great increase in K/D or hit% for me but I'm curious.
wrongway
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I'm going to do this if I ever get my frame rate issues sorted out. I'm betting I'm not going to see a great increase in K/D or hit% for me but I'm curious.
Both my K/D as well as my hit% suffer when flying a 16. Fragility and wing mounted mixed guns...
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It is only a noob plane when I (the universal first person version of "I") am not in it.
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That being said, the plane itself is exceptionally leet and anyone with a shred of ability can dominate with it. When you kill somebody, it's typically the plane doing the work, not your actual flying ability. Great plane for learning, but probably not a plane that will get you much respect even if flown well.
Exactly. Last time I flew a spit16 I flew a P38J and 109K before that and both times I ran into pawz in his P38. Both of those times I was trying as hard as I can to out fly him but each time I died. Then I hoped in a Spit16 and when I ran into him again I killed him with ease. As grizz said it wasn't me who beat him it was the plane.
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The 8 can crush any 16 but for a LITTLE bit more challenge use the 5 or 9 to rack up some kills in a spit.
I love all the spits. Don't fly the 16 much but thats mostly because the 8 is my favorite. I don't feel dweebish at all landing +5 kills in them. It's a very fun plane.
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I would fly the 16 in real life if asked but I would wear a mullet wig with a SHawk mask.
But my 16 killer is the FM2.
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I don't fly the spitfire 16 because I just don't really like that model, it can maneuver good and all but I just prefer more powerful and faster planes, just because I fight at higher speeds.
The reason why I started this thread is to see weather most people just disrespect it because it's easy to fly and alot of un-experienced people fly it or for some other reason. On 200 I see alot of people calling it dweebfire, noobfire, or what ever it was, the problem I have with that is it's a spitfire and it earned it place in history. Therefore it should be respected, no matter who fly's it.
Today one of our bases fell under attack of a bish CV and there were just not enough rooks to protect it. I took of on a spitfire 16 because it was about 5-7 rooks vs 20+bish. I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16, but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy? For a low alt outnumbered defense mission. And even thought I was on a superior aircraft it was not easy because I was outnumbered. During my 1st sorti I ran out of ammo and went back to base, I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
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I would. Thing Is In Aces High Its an EZ-mode plane that people use cause they refuse to learn. We tend to say GTFO and fly a real plane (Something that requires skill to fly) to help the new people. Its a fun plane to fly just wont catch me In It besides In a duel Is all.
Actually these are all just cartoon planes and require no "skill" to "fly".
Wait a minute - I might be wrong. Why don't you take a trip down to Stallion 51 in Florida, explain to them how much "skill" and thousands of hours you have "flying" the high performance fighters in AH, and see if they'll let you take Crazy Horse (a restored P-51D) up for a trip or two around the pattern by yourself. Let us know how it goes, ok? ;)
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Wait a minute - I might be wrong. Why don't you take a trip down to Stallion 51 in Florida, explain to them how much "skill" and thousands of hours you have "flying" the high performance fighters in AH, and see if they'll let you take Crazy Horse (a restored P-51D) up for a trip or two around the pattern by yourself. Let us know how it goes, ok? ;)
Have you ever flew Cessna 172 in flight simulator? After getting a few hundred hours on that go to a real flight school and sign up for a flight with an instructor. You will know what your doing when you take off, of course you will not be used to physically flying but you will pretty much know what to do.
In groundschool they always tell you to never get your airplane into a spin and your instructor tells you the same thing, but what if your practicing powered stalls and your airplane starts going into a spin? Would you panic because they always tough you to stay away from it or would you know exactly what to do because you simulated it before and stay in control of the plane.
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I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
Nobody cares, fly what you want.
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Nobody cares, fly what you want.
That's the way I like to think of it. But not everyone shares our opinion.
Great plane for learning, but probably not a plane that will get you much respect even if flown well.
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That's the way I like to think of it. But not everyone shares our opinion.
Opinions dont pay your AHII bill. :aok
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The whole thing is that not one plane is dweeby it is the pilot that is the dweeb. Personally i suck arse in a Spit16 and i don't Ho and when i try to BnZ someone i usually rip off my wings. So its all about the pilot.
P.S.- Spit5 is way better than the Spit16. :aok
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
Do I really need to post the countless films I have of the spit wibble wobbling all over the place like god himself grabbed it and spun in...then only to watch them fly on at 350mph afterwards?
Those maneuvers would either
A. kill the pilot
B. pulverize the aircraft
4. bleed serious speed
sigh.
But this isn't real life. The Spit 16 is an awesome plane. I doubt their wings were THAT brittle either so....I just think it's a poorly modeled aircraft in this game.
The lag and collision code make it FAR more of a n00b plane that it really is.
JMO take it with a grain of salt..
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Again most of the people who do fly the spit don't know how to fly that well so they aren't that easy to kill.
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Again most of the people who do fly don't know how to fly well so they are easy to kill.
Fixed :aok :D
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:rofl
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gain most of the people who do fly don't know how to fly well so they are easy to kill.
Fixed :aok :D
That's true, spit 16 never stopped me from killing them :D
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
I'll take a stab at this...
In real life I couldn't wait to get ahold of it. American pilots couldn't wait to upgrade too :) sometimes ditching there plane in the ocean for the simplest thing. "I heard a noise! Can't wait to get my hands on that P-47.." I imagine the Germans the same way "Ich habe gehört, sie testen ein neues Folckewolfe A-8 Ich möchte ein" Or the Russians "Вы слышали о новой Yak3"
So the answer to your question is ....Yes!
In real life I would want one...
...thing is, online flight sims work backwards.. you can easily start with the best plane and say "I kill all" when really there is a ladder of planes. Learn to fly the harder planes and kill the 16 or the nik or the k4. You will get much better. When you jump back in the 16 you will say "this is for kids" or "this is so easymode" :)
The fun in the game is improving not getting stuck with a crutch flying the F-4U1 or something even though it is a great plane :) the ENY is a fairly good indicator.. except for the 109's ;) ... try em all find 1 you like stick with it for a few months even though you get slaughtered in it.
You are a good fighter you should not have a problem finding and older ride to kickass with :)
They are free planes :).
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I'll take a stab at this...
In real life I couldn't wait to get ahold of it. American pilots couldn't wait to upgrade too :) sometimes ditching there plane in the ocean for the simplest thing. "I heard a noise! Can't wait to get my hands on that P-47.." I imagine the Germans the same way "Ich habe gehört, sie testen ein neues Folckewolfe A-8 Ich möchte ein" Or the Russians "Вы слышали о новой Yak3"
So the answer to your question is ....Yes!
In real life I would want one...
...thing is, online flight sims work backwards.. you can easily start with the best plane and say "I kill all" when really there is a ladder of planes. Learn to fly the harder planes and kill the 16 or the nik or the k4. You will get much better. When you jump back in the 16 you will say "this is for kids" or "this is so easymode" :)
The fun in the game is improving not getting stuck with a crutch flying the F-4U1 or something even though it is a great plane :) the ENY is a fairly good indicator.. except for the 109's ;) ... try em all find 1 you like stick with it for a few months even though you get slaughtered in it.
You are good fighter you should not have a problem finding and older ride to kickass with :)
They are free planes :).
I'm not asking what should I fly, my main fighters are spit 14 and F4U-4, I'm asking In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane" or would you be happy flying it?
They are free planes :).
No, there perked! lol
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I'm not asking what should I fly, my main fighters are spit 14 and F4U-4, I'm asking In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane" or would you be happy flying it?
No, there perked! lol
and I said Yes... just like any one would.. Raf or not to an upgrade or better ride :aok "In real life of course" ;)
I didnt asume that you were talking about a down grade to the 16 <I have to fly this> :cry... which I'm sure you wern't.
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I didnt asume that you were talking about a down grade to the 16 <I have to fly this> :cry... which I'm sure you wern't.
Why do you hate it that much? It's an OK plane.
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I'm a noob and I'm gunna fly it whenever I want which is about 40% of the time. But I do make an attempt to fly it well even though I manage to surround lots of red guys in it. That 40% includes the spit 5 which is about my extent of spit flying.
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IMO no plane itself is a "noob" or "dweeb" plane, it's the pilot. But since the only Spit I occasionally fly is the Seafire (because in a Spit I am even worse than normally) makes the question 'would I fly a Spit 16' irrelevant to me.
But I love it, when noobs fly the 16! When the pilot thinks he has the ultimate killing machine with unlimited speed and manouverability and lazer cannons, and I get him with my (t)rusty old 109-G6 with 100% gas and gondolas climbing towards him from underneath almost stalling... That makes me feel that I don't totally suck in this game! But now that I have told this, every noob in a 16 will run when they see my G6, and so will every P51 and N1k1, and goodbye to any kills :cry
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I would fly the 16 in real life if asked but I would wear a mullet wig with a SHawk mask.
But my 16 killer is the FM2.
Love the FM2
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:TdkoS8oZ2iZ0rM:http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/28500/Mullet--28580.jpg)
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It's a silly question because in real life everything was different. The fights were usually higher up, most kills were when pilots were taken by surprise, etc. etc. No one is going to complain about having a Spit 16 in real life because it is, in fact, a life or death scenario. This is a video game, people should expect to die, and actually try to challenge themselves.
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In simulated real life, I would not fly a Spit XVI. In real real life I would fly what ever i was assigned to fly.
I mainly don't fly a SpitXVI because, for the most part, I don't really do much better in one than a SpitIX or a Yak and I feel less dweebish getting killed in a P-40 than a SpitXVI.
I do find, however, the occasions I do fly a SpitXVI I seem to get a few more kills before I hit that tree.
I'm going to do this if I ever get my frame rate issues sorted out. I'm betting I'm not going to see a great increase in K/D or hit% for me but I'm curious.
wrongway
Thats probably the best answer :salute
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From another perspective, the Spit16 is so good that new pilots can fly it and even get kills in it. The other side of this is that veteran pilots can dominate most opponents in it...ridiculously. An average pilot can have more great moments and opportunities in a Spit16. To get out of and into trouble. :-)
There was a suggestion that said start new guys out with 1500 perks or so and maybe perk the Spi16 to level out the playing field. Then again if the Spit16 was produced in huge numbers...maybe it was the playing field in 1945. I don't know.
Slade
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This thread makes me want to fly the spit16 as my main ride for a tour. :)
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This thread makes me want to fly the spit16 as my main ride for a tour. :)
Me too, to skew its K/D ratio and K+D past the P-51. :devil
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
Loaded question. But, if I were to pick a fighter, knowing I had good odds to die anyway, I'd pick one I got a good kick out of flying in the mean time. Not a spitfire.
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
Is this a serious question?
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He really meant to say: "If you had your hands tied and were put on a short plank, would you walk it, or say "no way, this is dweeby!"?"
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:rofl
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
What does a game have to do with real life.
In real life I would be in the states anyway.
In real life most of the folks that fly in here would be dead first sortie.
If this game was played as real life then HT would have monitary problems for lack of users. After all. . . when your dead, your dead.
In FSO I'd not fly there anymore. If a scenario comes where there is only spits... won't do that either. Just plain boring to fly, no challenge what so ever.
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I actually Love the spitfire's historically, I think they get a bad rap in here because so many new players fly them. But I blame this on some of the training reading you do when you first start the game, its the direction a new player is lead to. I flew the Spit 9 for a long time when I started the the game and IMO its a wonderfully modeled plane in the game.
After Flying the spit 9 for a while I jumped into the Spit 16 and first thought was "wow" what a forgiving plane, even more so then the 9. I eventually moved to the faster more challenging plane's in the game and at the moment I fly the La's. And even though there fast it takes a lot more skill to fly them because everything happens faster in them and sometimes you only get one chance at a good shot and then you lose the advantage. So though I think that the spitfires get a bad rap I don't blame the plane set itself, I blame the fact that there such an easy flying plane that the New (noob) players gravitate toward them.
And one more thing that I have noticed over the years is that a lot of the GV guy's if you catch them in the air, most of the time the spit 16 is the plane they fly.
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I don't fly the spitfire 16 because I just don't really like that model, it can maneuver good and all but I just prefer more powerful and faster planes, just because I fight at higher speeds.
The reason why I started this thread is to see weather most people just disrespect it because it's easy to fly and alot of un-experienced people fly it or for some other reason. On 200 I see alot of people calling it dweebfire, noobfire, or what ever it was, the problem I have with that is it's a spitfire and it earned it place in history. Therefore it should be respected, no matter who fly's it.
Today one of our bases fell under attack of a bish CV and there were just not enough rooks to protect it. I took of on a spitfire 16 because it was about 5-7 rooks vs 20+bish. I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16, but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy? For a low alt outnumbered defense mission. And even thought I was on a superior aircraft it was not easy because I was outnumbered. During my 1st sorti I ran out of ammo and went back to base, I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
Best plane for base defense imo.
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Best plane for base defense imo.
I still think the 109K4 is the best plane for base defense.
Or La7.
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I fly whatever I can get a kill in, different plane for different situations if I get a kill at all :D
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This is always a good topic to debate.
Fly what ever you want, its a game.
Also there are guys who are so dominating in P-38's , 109's and such that they land 5-6 kills every time they up.
Now people say they wont fly spits because there is no challenge..... Well the dominate pilots in 38's and 109's etc are these planes still a challenge to fly? They fly them exclusively and fly them well.
So challenge your self.... get out of that P-38 or 109, or 190....
Fly an f4 or an A20 or something.
I also wonder how these guys would do if they had to fly spits for a tour? Being they are so easy mode they should be unstopable
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Question for all the people who call the spitfire 16 a noob plane.
In real life if you were a part of the RAF and you were assigned to fly Spitfire mk XVI, would you say "I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
I think my response would be along the lines of...
"Sir, yes sir. May I speak freely? I feel that my assignment to a Spitfire Mk XVI is not the most efficient allocation of resources. With the time and money spent on my training, would it not be possible I be assigned to a Harrier GR9 or Eurofighter Typhoon so I have some hope of survival?"
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There are lots of good choices for base defense besides the XVI:
Spit VIII
Spit IX
Ki-84
La-7/5
N1K
Any 109 from F-k
Yak-9U
A6M5
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There are a lot more choices than just those! Jug P51 and Typhoon just to name a few.
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There are lots of good choices for base defense besides the XVI:
Spit VIII
Spit IX
Ki-84
La-7/5
N1K
Any 109 from F-k
Yak-9U
A6M5
IL2 with the big guns. I love the 1k tater hits when they over shoot then getting called a cheater for it.
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This is always a good topic to debate.
Fly what ever you want, its a game.
Also there are guys who are so dominating in P-38's , 109's and such that they land 5-6 kills every time they up.
Now people say they wont fly spits because there is no challenge..... Well the dominate pilots in 38's and 109's etc are these planes still a challenge to fly? They fly them exclusively and fly them well.
So challenge your self.... get out of that P-38 or 109, or 190....
Fly an f4 or an A20 or something.
I also wonder how these guys would do if they had to fly spits for a tour? Being they are so easy mode they should be unstopable
Stick I have flown the A20 on several occasions. I find it to be a nice plane against fighters or bombers. I have tried several other planes and they seemed very quick and easy to maneuver. I believe that the folks who fly the more challenging planes, whatever that may be, will find the other aircraft rather user friendly.
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What I really hate is when people who have been here for years fly it instead of moving on to something harder to fly.
Sounds like that is more of your problem than the other players. Why do you care if a veteran player decideds to fly the Spitfire? Were is it written that if you reach a certain level of experience that you should hop into a more 'advanced' plane?
ack-ack
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Great plane for learning, but probably not a plane that will get you much respect even if flown well.
Lev was a respected player and he could pretty much out fly anyone in a Spitfire.
ack-ack
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Sounds like that is more of your problem than the other players. Why do you care if a veteran player decideds to fly the Spitfire? Were is it written that if you reach a certain level of experience that you should hop into a more 'advanced' plane?
ack-ack
yawn.
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yawn.
Can't answer a couple of simple questions?
ack-ack
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Come on you can troll better then that little one.
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Come on you can troll better then that little one.
It's not a troll. You're claiming that as an excuse to avoid answering two very simple questions for which you don't obviously have an answer for. You're dismissed child.
ack-ack
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There you go that's a little better. The real question is why do you care what I think? Your trolls are getting sad Mrs. akak I think you need some more pratice.
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I fly the XVI as one of my primary rides (along with the Bf109K-4, F6F-5 and FW190A-8); probably my primary ride. I've also learned to fly every plane in the planeset but I still come back to the XVI and I don't really care what anyone else thinks. I've been flying Spits since AW in '96 and I'm not going to change now. :salute
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Spit 16 does take little skill to fly.
Flying those harder planes such as a p38 or 109 exclusively makes flying easier planes that much easier. I remember upping a spit 16 for base defense of a field that was getting close to being capped and even just after takeoff, it was easy outmanuever planes that were trying to pick and gangbang me. Its a lot easier to win those 5v1s or better in a spit 16 than a 38 imo and I believe the spit 16 is a joke for that exact reason. When it can be considered easy to win against those kind of odds, and not challenging at all its definitely the plane.
If it were spits offered in a scenario or FSO I would of signed up for another plane or fly with a different squad or not fly it all. The spit 16 takes little to no skill to fly.
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Spit 16 does take little skill to fly.
When it can be considered easy to win against those kind of odds, and not challenging at all its definitely the plane.
The spit 16 takes little to no skill to fly.
Yet it offers noobs a chance to get some kills so it has a role in the stable.
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Its a lot easier to win those 5v1s or better in a spit 16 than a 38 imo and I believe the spit 16 is a joke for that exact reason. When it can be considered easy to win against those kind of odds, and not challenging at all its definitely the plane.
You must be the best pilot ever in AH if every 5:1 or better is no challenge to you.
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Yet it offers noobs a chance to get some kills so it has a role in the stable.
I agree.
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Lev was a respected player and he could pretty much out fly anyone in a Spitfire.
ack-ack
Man I was thinking the same thing
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Stick I have flown the A20 on several occasions. I find it to be a nice plane against fighters or bombers. I have tried several other planes and they seemed very quick and easy to maneuver. I believe that the folks who fly the more challenging planes, whatever that may be, will find the other aircraft rather user friendly.
I agree Shuffler.. What I was trying to say was regardless of what plane anyone fly's most people have a fav and they tend to stick with it. So saying a person should challenge themselves to something harder cause they fly a spit or what ever is a mute point. If you fly any plane long enough you will get good in it,
and I believe that is what most people in here strive to do......get good in a plane.... any plane.
Once you get good in a plane its alot more fun then. It becomes second nature, hence not as challenging any more as it once was when you first learned to fly it. So when guys say fly something more challenging I ask them to do the same.
A guy who flys nothing but P-51 could find a spit or a Hurri a "challenge"
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Sure, but I'd be trying to get a transfer to a Mosquito unit as that had a very significantly lower loss rate.
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There you go that's a little better. The real question is why do you care what I think? Your trolls are getting sad Mrs. akak I think you need some more pratice.
I don't care what you think as an individual but I am curious as to why you and others keep crying about those that fly the Spitfire. But as I can see how you've been dancing around the questions I asked, you really don't have an answer yourself.
ack-ack
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Its a lot easier to win those 5v1s or better in a spit 16 than a 38 imo and I believe the spit 16 is a joke for that exact reason. When it can be considered easy to win against those kind of odds, and not challenging at all its definitely the plane.
Please post a film of you winning a 5v1 in a Spitfire Mk XVI and show us all how easy it is.
ack-ack
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<<---is flying the Spit IX in Tunisia and the Spit V in FSO this month. :devil
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Man I was thinking the same thing
And Shane is respected in the La7.
Both planes are clearly uber rides but, if they are flown in a manner not consistent with dweebery, I have no problem at all being shot down by them.
Beyond that, Levi's ride was a Spit V, not a XVI. Pretty big difference.
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As if only "noobs" fly the 16. :lol
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And Shane is respected in the La7.
Both planes are clearly uber rides but, if they are flown in a manner not consistent with dweebery, I have no problem at all being shot down by them.
Beyond that, Levi's ride was a Spit V, not a XVI. Pretty big difference.
He was flying the V before the XVI came out and stopped flying before the XIV came out. Never the less ... he continued to fly the "Spit" back then when it was also considered "dweeby" to fly any Spit.
With that, I saw him summarily dismiss many a player (over and over) and never once did I see him get called out on "All/200" as being a dweeb.
Help me understand something ... "flown in a manner not consistent with dweebery" ... how exactly does one fly a Spit in a dweebery manner ?
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I don't care what you think as an individual but I am curious as to why you and others keep crying about those that fly the Spitfire. But as I can see how you've been dancing around the questions I asked, you really don't have an answer yourself.
ack-ack
Like I said why ask if you don't care what I think?
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In response to the original post I'll take one of them new fangled Tempest mk Vs please :)
In response to the spit bashing the only things that piss me off about them is when they take a Tater and spring a fuel leak and the Spit pinweel ( you've all seen this). The little cartoon pilots brain;s have to be a pile of mush after that LOL
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Spit pinweel ( you've all seen this). The little cartoon pilots brain;s have to be a pile of mush after that LOL
Very similar to the Luftweenie "land trout" maneuvers ?
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Have you ever flew Cessna 172 in flight simulator? After getting a few hundred hours on that go to a real flight school and sign up for a flight with an instructor. You will know what your doing when you take off, of course you will not be used to physically flying but you will pretty much know what to do.
In groundschool they always tell you to never get your airplane into a spin and your instructor tells you the same thing, but what if your practicing powered stalls and your airplane starts going into a spin? Would you panic because they always tough you to stay away from it or would you know exactly what to do because you simulated it before and stay in control of the plane.
True to some extent. Unintentional stalling in a cessna for a rookie pilot could be almost impossible to recover. You know that feeling of pressure when you fight someone 1 on 1 instead of picking through the hordes? Just that slight increase in mental challenge is often enough to make foolish mistakes. Now imagine the sudden and unexpected mental challenge of flying with your one real life and looking out of the cockpit of a spinning cessna 152 at 2000ft. All you have is this crappy flight yoke with auto co-ordinated rudder and about 15 seconds to save your own life. Easy to waste those 15 seconds in reality. :(
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Very similar to the Luftweenie "land trout" maneuvers ?
Exactly the same I'd hazard as those "maneuvers" are done using aircraft with high roll rate. I bet a Ki-84 or F4U could do them too.
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Lev was a respected player and he could pretty much out fly anyone in a Spitfire.
ack-ack
Well clearly! If a top stick flies the spitfire nobody will touch him. I don't generally have a problem with it because it opens up the avenue to engage into 2v1s,3v1s,4v1s, and have a legitimate chance to own them all. When it comes to being a top stick and engaging in an even 1v1 in the MA... it's like breaking a walnut with a sledgehammer when much much less can get the job done.
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Very similar to the Luftweenie "land trout" maneuvers ?
Is that the negative G tuna taco? That was video lesson four in Agent360s training films for the K4
:D
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wow, 1 day and it's already 7 pages long, now I got to answer everything for the past 4 pages :furious (http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/820/lolololg.png)
But I love it, when noobs fly the 16! When the pilot thinks he has the ultimate killing machine with unlimited speed and manouverability and lazer cannons, and I get him with my (t)rusty old 109-G6 with 100% gas and gondolas climbing towards him from underneath almost stalling... That makes me feel that I don't totally suck in this game! But now that I have told this, every noob in a 16 will run when they see my G6, and so will every P51 and N1k1, and goodbye to any kills :cry
In tour 111 I killed 13 spit 16s and got killed by them ones (in F4U-1D). So I would say a spitfire 16 does not do that much help to a newb pilot.
It's a silly question because in real life everything was different. The fights were usually higher up, most kills were when pilots were taken by surprise, etc. etc. No one is going to complain about having a Spit 16 in real life because it is, in fact, a life or death scenario. This is a video game, people should expect to die, and actually try to challenge themselves.
So you don't care about being shot down in aces high?
I never expect to die when I fly, and usually it does not happen.
Is this a serious question?
No, I'm joking and I made this thread to waist everybody's time. :uhoh :O
In real life I would be in the states anyway.
Spitfires flew with USAAF
In real life most of the folks that fly in here would be dead first sortie.
100% agreed
I think my response would be along the lines of...
"Sir, yes sir. May I speak freely? I feel that my assignment to a Spitfire Mk XVI is not the most efficient allocation of resources. With the time and money spent on my training, would it not be possible I be assigned to a Harrier GR9 or Eurofighter Typhoon so I have some hope of survival?"
amm....lol?
Sounds like that is more of your problem than the other players. Why do you care if a veteran player decideds to fly the Spitfire? Were is it written that if you reach a certain level of experience that you should hop into a more 'advanced' plane?
ack-ack
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1603/plusone.gif)
A guy who flys nothing but P-51 could find a spit or a Hurri a "challenge"
:aok
Its a lot easier to win those 5v1s or better in a spit 16 than a 38 imo and I believe the spit 16 is a joke for that exact reason. When it can be considered easy to win against those kind of odds, and not challenging at all its definitely the plane.
Please post a film of you winning a 5v1 in a Spitfire Mk XVI and show us all how easy it is.
ack-ack
Yes please, I would like to see that 2
<<---is flying the Spit IX in Tunisia and the Spit V in FSO this month. :devil
Been flying spitfire for the past 3 FSOs :D (got a C202 in Tunisia :furious :cry :furious)
Help me understand something ... "flown in a manner not consistent with dweebery" ... how exactly does one fly a Spit in a dweebery manner ?
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1603/plusone.gif)
Well clearly! If a top stick flies the spitfire nobody will touch him.
I have a K/D of 11.75 in an F4U-4, does it mean that it's a noob plane as well?
"Вы слышали о новой Yak3"
grammatical error
"Вы слышали о новом Yak3" lol
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I have a K/D of 11.75 in an F4U-4, does it mean that it's a noob plane as well?
I'm assuming since this point has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made, you are trying to toot your horn as if you have accomplished something impressive.
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I'm assuming since this point has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made, you are trying to toot your horn as if you have accomplished something impressive.
not at all, just saying that it's not just spitfire
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not at all, just saying that it's not just spitfire
Ah...well according to that logic, I will fly a P40E like a timid fool and rack up a 30K/D in the first 8 days of the tour and then say how it is the most leet plane in the game and show my fighter stats as proof. :rolleyes:
The Spit16 is easy mode, but who cares. If you enjoy absolutely crushing enemies in 3 seconds instead of 10 seconds, then fly the Spit. Just don't be surprised that people will assume it was the plane that beat them(not the pilot) and won't give you the appropriate respect you deserve for the fight.
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If a top stick flies the spitfire nobody will touch him.
Your saying that if an experienced pilot fly's the spitfire it will be extremely hard to shoot him down. I just gave you an example that it's not just the spitfire, if a pilot knows what he is doing they can be "unstoppable" in any airplane. Now you just gave me another example of that:
I will fly a P40E like a timid fool and rack up a 30K/D in the first 8 days of the tour and then say how it is the most leet plane in the game and show my fighter stats as proof.
Oh and BTW, non of your scores show you having a K/D of 30 in P-40E, you have 0 p40 kills in tour 110 and you did not fly at all in tour 111.
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if a pilot knows what he is doing they can be "unstoppable" in any airplane.
Yes, but the bare minimum level of skill to reach "unstoppable" in a spit is much much lower than in almost every other plane type in the game.
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Yes, but the bare minimum level of skill to reach "unstoppable" in a spit is much much lower than in almost every other plane type in the game.
true, but that brings me back to an something I said earlier in the thread
The reason why I started this thread is to see weather most people just disrespect it because it's easy to fly and alot of un-experienced people fly it or for some other reason. On 200 I see alot of people calling it dweebfire, noobfire, or what ever it was, the problem I have with that is it's a spitfire and it earned it place in history. Therefore it should be respected, no matter who fly's it.
Today one of our bases fell under attack of a bish CV and there were just not enough rooks to protect it. I took of on a spitfire 16 because it was about 5-7 rooks vs 20+bish. I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16, but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy? For a low alt outnumbered defense mission. And even thought I was on a superior aircraft it was not easy because I was outnumbered. During my 1st sorti I ran out of ammo and went back to base, I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
see sometimes when your outnumbered you need a good airplane that will be superior to a single enemy fighter. However if you do win that fight and come back home with a hole bunch of kills you will be disrespected for flying that airplane. And in reality people don't even know what the situation was.
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Sir! Thank you for the opportunity you have given me! I have been in the squad now for several months and my sten gun has served me well, but i would prefer to move on to something more challenging to test my metal; therefore i am placing this requisition in writing for a .22 pistol with limited ammunition and also am returning any other military issued weapons.
Please send all further correspondence to a place the men in the clean white coats call the "saliva yard"
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... if a pilot knows what he is doing they can be "unstoppable" in any airplane.
no
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guess
you are a real dweeb if you think the spit 16 is to hard to fly, and so you decide to take a LA7 :D
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Lev was a respected player and he could pretty much out fly anyone in a Spitfire.
ack-ack
True, true. But Lev could pretty much outfly anyone in any plane. Same with Shane in the La7, and Batfink in whatever he's flying at the moment, perhaps a few others I haven't met. Those people have reached that Nirvana level where any particular aircraft gives them no unusual advantage because they already have very unusual skill. For the rest of us, the Spits are a crutch.
- oldman
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guess
you are a real dweeb if you think the spit 16 is to hard to fly, and so you decide to take a LA7 :D
LA7 is a different kind of easy mode if it is flown properly, actually if its 1v1 I think the LA7 would win against a Spit16 if the spit missed its chance on the merge because after that the LA will win the E fight :salute
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Help me understand something ... "flown in a manner not consistent with dweebery" ... how exactly does one fly a Spit in a dweebery manner ?
You know dweebery when you see it. Dont ask silly questions.
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You know dweebery when you see it. Dont ask silly questions.
I have to admit that my own version of dweebery may be far different than anyone else's. I do not see it as a silly question, rather a request for clarification of dweebery as you see it.
Have a great day,
Way
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I have to admit that my own version of dweebery may be far different than anyone else's. I do not see it as a silly question, rather a request for clarification of dweebery as you see it.
Have a great day,
Way
Come into a fight with reckless abandonment, Cannons blazing and shooting at everything within 2k, run out of ammo and yell "Ho" when they get shot down.....Dweebery
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Come into a fight with reckless abandonment, Cannons blazing and shooting at everything within 2k, run out of ammo and yell "Ho" when they get shot down.....Dweebery
There is a pretty good personal opinion of what dweebery is. Other than the 'come into a fight with reckless abandonment" (I do this regularly, just can't stay away from the red guys), most of this description may step over the line from dweebery to flat out untrained noob.
Have a great day,
Way
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You know dweebery when you see it. Dont ask silly questions.
Not a silly question at all ... I have seen all sorts of dweebery and on many different levels over the past 7 years but have never seen any particular type of dweebery that I could associate with any particular "type" of plane.
I use to fly the Spit V exclusively and was just wondering if I had ever flown my Spit in a "dweeby" manner as opposed to how I might be flying my FM2 in a "dweeby" manner ... I have got to know so that I can correct myself if I am being "dweeby".
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Come into a fight with reckless abandonment, Cannons blazing and shooting at everything within 2k, run out of ammo and yell "Ho" when they get shot down.....Dweebery
This description can be attributed to any person in any plane ... is there something special about how one flys a Spit, that is specific to the Spit, that would get them labeled as "dweeby" ?
After all ... the subject is about the Spit ... for those of us that do fly a Spit, exclusively or occasionally, we should be educated on how we can fly the Spit in a non-dweebish manner so that we don't tweak someone's nipples during a fight.
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Your saying that if an experienced pilot fly's the spitfire it will be extremely hard to shoot him down. I just gave you an example that it's not just the spitfire, if a pilot knows what he is doing they can be "unstoppable" in any airplane. Now you just gave me another example of that:
Oh and BTW, non of your scores show you having a K/D of 30 in P-40E, you have 0 p40 kills in tour 110 and you did not fly at all in tour 111.
Huh? When did I say an unexperienced pilot is hard to shoot down in a spitfire? Maybe somebody else said that. Spit16's are some of the easiest kills to be had since 95% of the pilots flying them are newbs.
And no, a good stick is not unstoppable in any airplane.
I was using the P40E comment as a hypothetical example and if I did it, it would not prove anything about the plane.
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"OMG WTF YOU DWEEB SPITXT33N IS A EZ MODE PLANE!1!1!" = "I just got spanked and I'd rather whine about the plane than understand what I did wrong and learn something from the experience." :rofl
To answer the original question, seeing as how they aren't used for combat anymore, I can only dream of flying anything as sweet as any model Spitfire.
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LA7 is a different kind of easy mode if it is flown properly, actually if its 1v1 I think the LA7 would win against a Spit16 if the spit missed its chance on the merge because after that the LA will win the E fight :salute
The Spitfire is better in all respects from the La7 except for speed. Really, since HTC changed it's low speed handling characteristics, the La's have become much more interesting aircraft.
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The spit16 is "dweeby" because it allows you to blunder your way thru the hardest parts of dogfighting, against someone who's doing everything right in almost anything in the rest of the planeset. You can make all sorts of mistakes and pay no meaningful penalty. The "problem" with vets who fly spits is that the plane does all the hard angles/timing work. It's a big crutch.
Before someone says it.. I want spits in the game. They remove any hesitation from second guessing whether I'm winning a fight without giving the opponent a good fair chance of winning, instead of just killing him on his first mistake. Killing spitfires never gets old. Nothing says "PNWT" like losing a fight in a spitfire... Nothing.
The historical argument? Totally off topic.. All but a handful of us are just cartoon pilots yanking joysticks in front of computer monitors (and VR goggles for the real freaks).
The Spitfire is better in all respects from the La7 except for speed. Really, since HTC changed it's low speed handling characteristics, the La's have become much more interesting aircraft.
Didn't Pyro say it was slats or flaps that had a minor adjustment, not the FM as a whole?
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None of us will ever be called up to fly spitfires so it really doesn't matter. I don't care that new people fly the spit16 because they have to learn somehow and the spit16 is very easy to fly. What I really hate is when people who have been here for years fly it instead of moving on to something harder to fly.
I love it when others think that they have the right to tell others how to play the game. As I said before pay my bill and fly what you want me to ;)
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He has the right to tell you how to fly, and you have the right to totally ignore it or even point out how he's wrong. Either way.. He isn't even telling you what to do with your 15$. He's just giving you his perspective. "Food for thought".
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I feel that there is a natural progression from the so-called easy to fly planes to the planes that require more pilot input and experience to fight correctly. Calling it a new pilot plane is somewhat true, as most new pilots want and need to experience some success with the large learning curve that AH has. Therefore new pilots will gravitate towards the planes that give them some success while learning the ins and outs of the game. Most pilots will transition on to other planes as their knowledge and skills grow. Some will continue to fly it all the time, some only part of the time in favor of whatever new bird they are experimenting with.
Have a great day,
Way
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This Isn't "real life". :aok
This is real life, anyone who says otherwise is a chump. This isn't a game to a lot of us.
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This isn't a game to a lot of us.
It's a simulation of real WWII life.
Huh? When did I say an unexperienced pilot is hard to shoot down in a spitfire?
never, when did I say that you said that an unexperienced pilot is hard to shoot down in a spit? this is what I said:
Your saying that if an experienced pilot fly's the spitfire it will be extremely hard to shoot him down.[/size]
LA7 is a different kind of easy mode if it is flown properly, actually if its 1v1 I think the LA7 would win against a Spit16 if the spit missed its chance on the merge because after that the LA will win the E fight :salute
you kidding me? Spitfire is the best at conserving energy.
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The spit16 is "dweeby" because it allows you to blunder your way thru the hardest parts of dogfighting, against someone who's doing everything right in almost anything in the rest of the planeset.
Would this only be true if the 2 opponents (1 in a Spit 16) started the fight on a level playing field.
What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?
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What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?
good point :salute
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The Spitfire is better in all respects from the La7 except for speed. Really, since HTC changed it's low speed handling characteristics, the La's have become much more interesting aircraft.
In AH1, I'd land between 8-10 kills a hop (no vultches or picks) in an La7. I've done the same in AH2. I've never noticed a single difference in "low speed handling". I'll often get the La7 down to almost to 80mph and not have a problem.
I'd choose the La7 over a Spixteen anyday and the Spixteen is a good plane.
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I love it when others think that they have the right to tell others how to play the game. As I said before pay my bill and fly what you want me to ;)
Please oh please tell me where I'm telling you or others how to play in that quote. How about this, YOU pay my bill each month and I wont type my opinions on these boards like you and everyone else do. You don't agree with me? Fine, you have that right, but don't try to spin my post into something its not.
IMO flying a Spit16 just so you can get more kills and make people think you're good is like a MLB player using a T-ball stand so he can have a perfect batting average.
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Would this only be true if the 2 opponents (1 in a Spit 16) started the fight on a level playing field.
What if the Spit 16s opponent had the higher ground and all the advantages and the Spit 16 driver worked the fight to gain the upper hand and score the kill ... would the Spit 16 driver still be considered "dweeby" and not deserve a <<S>> ?
No and he would. But that's true for any plane. The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.
I'm not saying anything about what kind of people spit fliers are, or that anyone has to agree with me or change what they fly, or that the spitfire shouldn't appeal to them, etc.
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The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.
Oh, come on. If that's true why doesn't it have a 3:1 or better k/d ratio? :rolleyes:
And don't say "because n00bs fly it" because if what you say is true, if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds, newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes. If better pilots flying other planes can usually beat worse pilots flying the XVI, then it stands to reason that the only way one can consistently get kills in the XVI - like in any other plane - is by being the better pilot. (Or possibly by vulching, picking, HOing, etc., but no one has offered any reason why those would be any easier or more common in a XVI than in any other plane.)
Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio. I'll fly no XVIs or perked planes for a week and see if mine is cut in half. Any stakes you care to put up. We'll be on the honor system as to not drastically altering our strategic behavior (i.e., only fighting with vastly superior numbers when we didn't do that before, etc.)
The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.
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No and he would. But that's true for any plane. The spit16 is still as dweeby as you can get because you have to give it those overwhelming odds to really earn a victory. You don't really have to "work" otherwise.
I'm not saying anything about what kind of people spit fliers are, or that anyone has to agree with me or change what they fly, or that the spitfire shouldn't appeal to them, etc.
Moot ... not trying to poke you in the eye nor start a pissin' match over this, but how would this fair on the "dweeby" meter.
Your "cruising" along in an F6F at 10K and inbound are 2 110s at about 8K ... you in on the 110s and absolutely spank the snot out of the 110s, because they really are no match for the F6F in that scenario ... would the 110 pilots be within their rights to claim "dweebyness" under those circumstances ? ... the F6F pilot really doesn't have to work hard at all to quickly dispatch the 110s ... the abilities of the F6F compared to the 110s basically only required the F6F pilot to push his stick around and pull the trigger.
My point is ... "dweebyness" is situational, and can apply to any sortie, and any of the various planes involved in a myriad of conflicts that could result due to the diversity of planes that are available.
The "Spit" (and now it's the Spit 16 - was the Spit 9 previously) is the red-headed step child of all "dweebishness" due to the fact that "noobs" are using them to be somewhat competitive (or at least that is what I have been told). So the moniker of "dweeby" is universally throw at anyone who flies a Spit regardless of the "situation" ... it's simply that they were in a Spit and forget about the "situation".
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Oh, come on. If that's true why doesn't it have a 3:1 or better k/d ratio? :rolleyes:
And don't say "because n00bs fly it" because if what you say is true, if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds, newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes. If better pilots flying other planes can usually beat worse pilots flying the XVI, then it stands to reason that the only way one can consistently get kills in the XVI - like in any other plane - is by being the better pilot. (Or possibly by vulching, picking, HOing, etc., but no one has offered any reason why those would be any easier or more common in a XVI than in any other plane.)
Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio. I'll fly no XVIs or perked planes for a week and see if mine is cut in half. Any stakes you care to put up. We'll be on the honor system as to not drastically altering our strategic behavior (i.e., only fighting with vastly superior numbers when we didn't do that before, etc.)
The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.
K/D is really a poor way to judge an aircrafts abilities. Like the P-38L it is not flown by many folks who can take advantage of it's abilities. A lot of new folks fly the Spit because it is a more forgiving plane. With the 38L there are a lot of folks that fly it because of it's JABO application. Once the ords are dropped they are at a loss of how to fly it in any engagement.
All planes are affected one way or another by these same issues as far as K/D. Usually there are a hand full of folks in each plane set that make the bulk of the kills in it.
I joke about the spits being very easy to fly. In reality they were a great bird. But there is no denying that in the game they are extremely forgiving.
OK I'll step aside and go back to just reading.............
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It's a simulation
Hitech will get angry if you call his GAME a Simulation. :O
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The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.
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The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.
I beg to differ ... most people in this game that feel the need to place that moniker upon people (on 200 or on this BBS) really wouldn't know a vet if they tripped over one.
Also, it is my experience that the term "dweeb", in the context of the Spit, is used regardless if the person is a vet or not ... it's "in" to call people dweebs that fly the Spit ... and it's usually used by people that fly "manly men" planes ... :rofl
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Slap, no offense taken. The two 110s sound like they don't know how to work together. It should be a good match unless you caught them flat-out NOE with no room for error. It wouldn't really be dweeby because the combination of turning, amount of ammo, huge firepower and rate of fire means they just need an average opportunity to at least disable you. And the F6 can't really run away unless it keeps them under its heel. The F6 just isn't so easy to fly to ever be the greater factor than the pilot in a fight. It doesn't earn "dweeby" in at least the majority of cases. You actually have to make an effort to make it work.
I'm not convinced. I don't think dweebiness is situational. No other plane thrives so well on furballing while demanding so little of the pilot. It's sure that "dweeb" gains a bandwagon effect, but that's just a case of any "good cause" having some fool supporting it. It doesn't void the fact that it really is dweeby often enough.
Now, I'm not out to convince anyone that the spit is something you should feel guilty for flying. Have at it.. Fly what you like and like what you fly. I just don't see it as anything but a crutch though.
The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.
That's pretty much says it all, as far as your objectivity goes.
The XVI doesn't have a great K/D because people who fly it fly it that bad. And/or they don't care about dying.
newbies flying the XVI should consistently be able to beat veterans flying other planes.
They do.
if nothing is a challenge for anyone in a XVI except overwhelming numerical odds,
Not what I said. Everything else being equal is the way I was putting it.
I was gonna just stop there but.. Did you actually say
Let's run a little experiment. Fly nothing but the XVI for a week and see if you can double your k/d ratio.
First, I don't trust you to be objective, so your end of it (your K/D variance) isn't interesting. It's not even a proper setup, there's too many uncontrolled variables. But I can say I've flown the 16 and I can dodge pretty much anything.. I can easily double my K/D and definitely my K/T, and most likely up my hit%, compared to flying the Ta152 which I know pretty well. But my previous K/D would have to be from a "control" sample, and one week is too little a sample. And then we'd have to show films of the whole thing to really proof the validity of the results and that's just not worth it in any way I can imagine. The XVI is as dweeby as any other in the planeset. If you can't see that, it's your problem. Good luck.
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I beg to differ ... most people in this game that feel the need to place that moniker upon people (on 200 or on this BBS) really wouldn't know a vet if they tripped over one.
Also, it is my experience that the term "dweeb", in the context of the Spit, is used regardless if the person is a vet or not ... it's "in" to call people dweebs that fly the Spit ... and it's usually used by people that fly "manly men" planes ... :rofl
Perhaps you're right, I wouldn't know a vet if i saw one. That's because I'm too busy getting ganged by Spits in my "manly" P-40. :)
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The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.
No offense intended but the people who have trouble beating a spixteen need the practice anyway.
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The "dweeby" comes from veterans flying the 16, not the newcomers. The 16 makes an "ok" pilot seem good and a good pilot seem great. Fly it if you want but don't expect people to fawn over your uberness for beating them in one.
More like the 'dweeby' comes from those that insist experienced players shouldn't fly the Spitfire.
ack-ack
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No offense intended but the people who have trouble beating a spixteen need the practice anyway.
None taken, but you assume too much. I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver. But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.
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None taken, but you assume too much. I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver. But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.
No, you assume too much. I didn't mention you were having trouble and I didn't say anything about 1v1. I said the people having trouble beating the spixteen need the practice.
The spixteen gives the noobs a chance to compete. This seems to be a good enough reason to keep them unperked.
FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO
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FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO
Its 50mph slower across the board, accelerates twice as slowly as the spit8/16 do, climbs well under 1500+ feet per minute less than either spit, and only has 230 rounds per gun (around 15 seconds of firing time), and turns significantly worse than either spit with or without flaps.
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You're right, it's the pilot, not the plane, and my mouth wrote a check my [behind] can't cash.
Fixed.
Thank you for playing. :)
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Its 50mph slower across the board, accelerates twice as slowly as the spit8/16 do, climbs well under 1500+ feet per minute less than either spit, and only has 230 rounds per gun (around 15 seconds of firing time), and turns significantly worse than either spit with or without flaps.
I guess that's why it's a tough matchup. :aok
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More like the 'dweeby' comes from those that insist experienced players shouldn't fly the Spitfire.
ack-ack
I haven't seen anyone insist anybody fly anything.
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No, you assume too much. I didn't mention you were having trouble and I didn't say anything about 1v1. I said the people having trouble beating the spixteen need the practice.
The spixteen gives the noobs a chance to compete. This seems to be a good enough reason to keep them unperked.
FWIW, pilots being equal, the p40 vs spixteen matchup is a tough one for the p40 driver, IMHO
Being that you quoted me when you said "those people need practice", it sure seemed like an inference (albeit, a vague one) to me. Had you just replied instead of quoting, I wouldn't have assumed too much. :D
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I haven't seen anyone insist anybody fly anything.
Hence the "dweeb" title. What we can't insist on, we can stigmatize. It's called peer pressure.
I won't call a newb a dweeb for flying the Spit 16, in fact I recommend the plane sometimes when new pilots ask what they should fly.
That doesn't extend to HOing, however. I will call anyone a dweeb who blatantly HOs, whether they're new or not.
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A plane is a plane.
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That's why we've spent trillions developing and building the F-22 raptor, and the EU has billions on the Eurofighter, eh?
A plane is not a plane. A pilot can only fly as well as his plane performs. Good pilots know their limitations and fly within them. Great pilots only engage and fight when their limitations don't come into play. Having a plane with no limitations makes the same pilot (same skills) multiple times more effective than a plane WITH limitations.
Would you rather drive a railroad spike with a dimestore claw hammer, or a 20lb sledge? Given the same person swinging, one has a lore more capabilities to lend to the user's skill.
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Being that you quoted me when you said "those people need practice", it sure seemed like an inference (albeit, a vague one) to me. Had you just replied instead of quoting, I wouldn't have assumed too much. :D
Nah, it was a general statement to those claiming it is uber. The spixteen is not an unbalancer in the MA. In fact, I think it's the opposite. It's a "balancer" because it helps level the playing field a little bit for newer players.
I really don't have trouble 1 vs 1 against the average 16 driver. But it seldom remains 1 vs 1 for long.
They've been beating up on you the last 3 tours. You touched on it though. With a p40, it may be hard to kill quickly, meaning you are often going to be dealing with multiple bad guys.
If you are regularly beating 16's 1v1 in your p40, you are surely doing something right. :aok
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Not a silly question at all ... I have seen all sorts of dweebery and on many different levels over the past 7 years but have never seen any particular type of dweebery that I could associate with any particular "type" of plane.
I use to fly the Spit V exclusively and was just wondering if I had ever flown my Spit in a "dweeby" manner as opposed to how I might be flying my FM2 in a "dweeby" manner ... I have got to know so that I can correct myself if I am being "dweeby".
Flying the Spit V absolves you of any responsibility by default since that aircraft is not the subject of discussion.
My point is ... "dweebyness" is situational, and can apply to any sortie, and any of the various planes involved in a myriad of conflicts that could result due to the diversity of planes that are available.
As I stated to you, "You know dweebery when you see it." Can you associate it with aircraft aside from the 16? Of course.
That said, I am perfectly comfortable stating that the overwhelming majority of the dweeby behavior in the MA is performed by 16 drivers.
Ill take you on a visual journey through the virtual skies of Aces High if it'll help:
You see two baddies ahead and below. You have every conceivable advantage except surprise. The pair consists of a 109K4 and a Spit16. You dive to bounce them.
As you pass through about 350MPH, far exceeding their level flight speed, and approach 2,000 meters distance, closing rapidly, each opponent chooses his or her ideal counter to avoid damage and improve their position.
One of them reduces throttle, banks 90 degrees and pulls hard into your approach, reversing that bank and turn and applying full throttle to follow, allowing a quick snapshot and a positional improvement.
The other aircraft elects to firewall the throttle, proceed to climb straight up, nose on nose, guns blazing, in the hopes of landing a stray hit.
Now.
Which maneuver is probably one of the most dweebish things you can do in the game?
And.
Which aircraft would you expect to perform which maneuver?
Then.
How often do you see that particular aircraft perform that particular feat?
In my case? Fairly often. Since the 16 can defy the laws of physics, that sort of "maneuver" is possible for anyone to perform. I don't even see many La7's do this.
Now, don't get me wrong. We need aircraft like the 16. As previously stated, it offers newer players an opportunity to try and break into the steep learning curve which exists.
However, there comes a point when the lack of any substantial performance deficiencies result in horribly bad habits which ultimately manifest themselves in the type of dweebery described above.
For my $15, I'd sure as poop rather try and fight it out with the guy for the next couple minutes than make an attempt to end the "engagement" in the space of 2 seconds, based largely on chance, after flying 10 minutes to get to a fight.
Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.
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That's why we've spent trillions developing and building the F-22 raptor, and the EU has billions on the Eurofighter, eh?
A plane is not a plane. A pilot can only fly as well as his plane performs. Good pilots know their limitations and fly within them. Great pilots only engage and fight when their limitations don't come into play. Having a plane with no limitations makes the same pilot (same skills) multiple times more effective than a plane WITH limitations.
Would you rather drive a railroad spike with a dimestore claw hammer, or a 20lb sledge? Given the same person swinging, one has a lore more capabilities to lend to the user's skill.
The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.
As I stated to you, "You know dweebery when you see it." Can you associate it with aircraft aside from the 16? Of course.
That said, I am perfectly comfortable stating that the overwhelming majority of the dweeby behavior in the MA is performed by 16 drivers.
Ill take you on a visual journey through the virtual skies of Aces High if it'll help:
You see two baddies ahead and below. You have every conceivable advantage except surprise. The pair consists of a 109K4 and a Spit16. You dive to bounce them.
As you pass through about 350MPH, far exceeding their level flight speed, and approach 2,000 meters distance, closing rapidly, each opponent chooses his or her ideal counter to avoid damage and improve their position.
One of them reduces throttle, banks 90 degrees and pulls hard into your approach, reversing that bank and turn and applying full throttle to follow, allowing a quick snapshot and a positional improvement.
The other aircraft elects to firewall the throttle, proceed to climb straight up, nose on nose, guns blazing, in the hopes of landing a stray hit.
Now.
Which maneuver is probably one of the most dweebish things you can do in the game?
And.
Which aircraft would you expect to perform which maneuver?
Then.
How often do you see that particular aircraft perform that particular feat?
In my case? Fairly often. Since the 16 can defy the laws of physics, that sort of "maneuver" is possible for anyone to perform. I don't even see many La7's do this.
Now, don't get me wrong. We need aircraft like the 16. As previously stated, it offers newer players an opportunity to try and break into the steep learning curve which exists.
However, there comes a point when the lack of any substantial performance deficiencies result in horribly bad habits which ultimately manifest themselves in the type of dweebery described above.
For my $15, I'd sure as poop rather try and fight it out with the guy for the next couple minutes than make an attempt to end the "engagement" in the space of 2 seconds, based largely on chance, after flying 10 minutes to get to a fight.
Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1603/plusone.gif)
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The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.
Tell that to the Defiant pilots, the Bf110C4 pilots during BOB, the P40E pilots in N. Africa shot down by 109Fs, the many P-47s outmanuvered and shot down by 190s/109s, the p47 pilots that by all rights should have died many times over but sat there soaking up hundreds of rounds from ground fire and aircraft.
Oh, yes, surely the aircraft performance duringf WW2 had little to do with who made it back alive or dead. :cool:
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Both my K/D as well as my hit% suffer when flying a 16. Fragility and wing mounted mixed guns...
That's one thing I never got used to after playing the game for a while. You move the joystick 1/32 of an inch and your going in a completely opposite direction.
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Nah, it was a general statement to those claiming it is uber. The spixteen is not an unbalancer in the MA. In fact, I think it's the opposite. It's a "balancer" because it helps level the playing field a little bit for newer players.
They've been beating up on you the last 3 tours. You touched on it though. With a p40, it may be hard to kill quickly, meaning you are often going to be dealing with multiple bad guys.
If you are regularly beating 16's 1v1 in your p40, you are surely doing something right. :aok
Being that it is a balancer for the new players, it becomes an unbalancer for the experienced ones. I don't care if every noob flys the 16 and don't blame them. I just don't admire vets who pwn in the plane and think it's all the pilot.
Everyone has been beating up on me the last 3 tours and every tour before that. I consider myself an "average" player at best. The average 16 driver is usually newer but there are those that have similar time invested as I. Those pilots would eat me alive in a 16 vs 40 fight. That's where "it's the pilot, not the plane" doesn't quite apply.
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The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.
Tell that to the Defiant pilots, the Bf110C4 pilots during BOB, the P40E pilots in N. Africa shot down by 109Fs, the many P-47s outmanuvered and shot down by 190s/109s, the p47 pilots that by all rights should have died many times over but sat there soaking up hundreds of rounds from ground fire and aircraft.
Oh, yes, surely the aircraft performance duringf WW2 had little to do with who made it back alive or dead. :cool:
The more modern the planes get the more it depends on the plane not the pilot. Back in WWII it depended alot on the pilot, however a plane did play a major roll in success.
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The spit 16 is a crutch. I dont mind seeing newbs in em, or base defenders. However, to see highly skilled, long time players relying on this crutch (or any other super uber) to survive makes me sick. How lame are you that you must always fly nothing but the best? You must be the type of person that doesnt face challenges very well.
IMO someone that flys only the hottest rides has a huge ego problem and is too frightened to actually be shot down from time to time. They are chicken shuckers.
Take off the training wheels and man up. :devil
my 2 cents HB
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The spit 16 is a crutch. I dont mind seeing newbs in em, or base defenders. However, to see highly skilled, long time players relying on this crutch (or any other super uber) to survive makes me sick. How lame are you that you must always fly nothing but the best? You must be the type of person that doesnt face challenges very well.
IMO someone that flys only the hottest rides has a huge ego problem and is too frightened to actually be shot down from time to time. They are chicken shuckers.
Take off the training wheels and man up. :devil
my 2 cents HB
You been saying that for years HB.
You don't mined seeing people defend a base in spit16 but when you see them land kills in it, what do you think of them? (BTW the last sentence in the following quote might seem a little familiar to you ;) )
Today one of our bases fell under attack of a bish CV and there were just not enough rooks to protect it. I took of on a spitfire 16 because it was about 5-7 rooks vs 20+bish. I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16, but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy? For a low alt outnumbered defense mission. And even thought I was on a superior aircraft it was not easy because I was outnumbered. During my 1st sorti I ran out of ammo and went back to base, I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
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OK.. all the guys who fly one plane exclusively, for the next two nights fly nothing but the spit 16.
So those who are exclusive P-38, 190, 109 etc drivers lets see if they get more kills than usual or die more than usual.
So challenge yourself to something new.
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This thread gets funnier by the minute. :rofl
I'm curious, let's have a show of (virtual) hands:
How many people would expect a poor pilot in a Spit 16 to beat a good pilot in a 190D-9, P-38G, or Yak-9U (just to name some random middling ENY examples) more often than not?
How many people would expect a good pilot in a 190D-9, P-38J, or Yak-9U to beat a poor pilot in a Spit 16 more often than not?
Bonus question: How often in a typical night in LW would you expect to see a two-weeker landing 4 or more kills (or if you're paying enough attention, getting 4 kills in one sortie before dying) in a Spit-16?
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In real life I would want the best thing possible....who wouldnt? :uhoh
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After all this talk about the 16, I flew a couple of hops in one last night just to see.....And I got about 5 kills in 2 hops and 3 of the kills I never fired a shot. And I did this by just out maneuvering and watching them crash trying to get a gun solution, and I'm not that great a pilot. But after flying my normal rides and jumping into the spit 16 it was like it almost fly's itself in combat, that plane in the right hands can dominate the field IMHO.
I got to hand it to the plane, its a Great Ride.
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The spit 16 is a crutch. I dont mind seeing newbs in em, or base defenders. However, to see highly skilled, long time players relying on this crutch (or any other super uber) to survive makes me sick. How lame are you that you must always fly nothing but the best? You must be the type of person that doesnt face challenges very well.
Hmmm ... I am somewhat confused here ... :rolleyes:
How does one become "highly skilled" in this game by "relying on this crutch" (Spit 16) ... or any crutch for that matter ?
How does one become "highly skilled" in this game but "doesn't face challenges very well" ? ... can you actually become a top tier pilot without facing any challenges in this game ?
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I don't know WTF I'm talking about.
"Thanks for playing".
A 190A8 is a Spit16.
Hey, look at that, Orange's method works great!How does one become "highly skilled" in this game by "relying on this crutch" (Spit 16) ... or any crutch for that matter ?
How does a crutch help a broken leg convalescent walk faster? Is that what you're asking?
How does one become "highly skilled" in this game but "doesn't face challenges very well" ? ... can you actually become a top tier pilot without facing any challenges in this game ?
You can but that's off topic.
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Right! Except for the part where mine is an accurate paraphrase and yours isn't.
Do you or don't you agree with the proposition that an unskilled novice pilot in a Spit16 can expect to beat a good experienced pilot in any other plane more often than not?
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"In any other plane". You just can't do proper argument can ya.. Nothing but loaded questions and inaccurate hair splitting when the reality is that the 16 is easily one of the very few easiest planes in the game and can do everything I said it can. Period. You want my opinion? It's right here in the thread. You want an unedited quote of your argument?
The most you can say with any credibility is that the XVI gives a slight edge and sometimes gives pilots a chance to recover from mistakes that would kill them in another aircraft.
Do I really have to fly a spit16 to prove this to you?
:lol You don't know wtf you're talking about. Yes, a noob in a spit16 will hand NathBDP his bellybutton about half the time, on a deck merge at 375mph. How do I know this is an accurate example? I fly the 152 and I've fought spit16s flown by pretty much the whole gamut of players, maybe a couple hundred times. Slow and fast and everything in between. Kazaa and some other TheFew blokes, GTR, MOG, Wizer, a whole bunch of zipcodes, a couple dozen average players whose names I can't recall but who I recall specifically they would make tons of mistakes and still were just out of reach and/or would beat the best I had to offer.. That's 1:1. That's even when they lose the plot and do some flat turn marathons. Put noobs in a spit16 on the best sticks in the game already commited to a fight and they'll be able to keep up just fine.
It's the poster child for easy mode and anyone past 6 months has no need for its crutch. F** yeah with it I could double or triple my KD, KT, H% and any other magic number you want to try hinging this on. You can go up a rope with three or four cons above you and correct for a killshot on each, you can come out of a slow zoom nearly at 90deg with the right twist at the top, etc.
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The spit 16 is a crutch. I dont mind seeing newbs in em, or base defenders. However, to see highly skilled, long time players relying on this crutch (or any other super uber) to survive makes me sick. How lame are you that you must always fly nothing but the best? You must be the type of person that doesnt face challenges very well.
IMO someone that flys only the hottest rides has a huge ego problem and is too frightened to actually be shot down from time to time. They are chicken shuckers.
Take off the training wheels and man up. :devil
my 2 cents HB
And flying a P-38 exclusively some how makes you better than the other experienced player that likes to fly the Mk XVI exclusively? Talk about your huge ego problems...
ack-ack
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Being that it is a balancer for the new players, it becomes an unbalancer for the experienced ones. I don't care if every noob flys the 16 and don't blame them. I just don't admire vets who pwn in the plane and think it's all the pilot.
...."it's the pilot, not the plane" doesn't quite apply.
I have yet to run into one of these vets...at least I don't know of any who fly it, and own, regularly. Any names come to mind? You make a good point though. People who say "it's the pilot not the plane" are not correct. I typically fly for the team in the bucket and against the biggest concentration of bad guys I can find. I do this in a 51 with some success. Certainly I wouldn't have as much luck in your P40.
Everyone has been beating up on me the last 3 tours and every tour before that. I consider myself an "average" player at best. The average 16 driver is usually newer but there are those that have similar time invested as I. Those pilots would eat me alive in a 16 vs 40 fight.
Well I wasn'r really impugning your skills. You were clear to say you do fine against spixteens "1V1". Obviously many if not most deaths in the MA are not "1V1", so the raw stats aren't a clear indicator of your abilites.
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I just flew it. Could have won a rolling 4:1 with 10 kills or more, if not for being my first flight in weeks. It's exactly like I remember it. It's a freakin UFO. I can keep lines for 2 to 4 kills for most of the fight. Biggest balls out furballing crutch in the game.
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Hey, look at that, Orange's method works great! (ref. 190A8 is a spit16)
they are boths planes, are they not?
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I just flew it. Could have won a rolling 4:1 with 10 kills or more, if not for being my first flight in weeks. It's exactly like I remember it. It's a freakin UFO. I can keep lines for 2 to 4 kills for most of the fight. Biggest balls out furballing crutch in the game.
2-4 kills in 1 sorti is not alot. Try getting 7+ (with no re-arming) in that spitfire and then say how much of a UFO that is. Today I landed 10 kills in F4U, how come no one is screaming that it's a UFO or a noob plane for that matter?
And flying a P-38 exclusively some how makes you better than the other experienced player that likes to fly the Mk XVI exclusively? Talk about your huge ego problems...
ack-ack
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1603/plusone.gif)
People who say "it's the pilot not the plane" are not correct.
A few month ago I took a P-40 for a ride. I encountered a P-38L and a P-51D at the same time at the same altitude. They both died. Now are you going to tell me that a P-40B is much superior than a P-51D and P-38L combined? Also have you ever killed someone in a better airplane than the one you were in?
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Yeah I clearly am Batfink. :rofl
The spit16 is a noob plane if there ever was one. End of story.
I said 2-4 kills meaning I was furballing on my own next to an enemy base, and inside a 4:1 could keep lines to killshots on 2 and a couple of times 4 separate bandits. That means I could (and did) commit to one target and break off for a killshot on another and then go back to the one target without losing the dominant position. In a slow turning fight. I went down with 7 kills. So here I am, saying it's a UFO. That's not enough? I can do 10 kills every sortie. I could probably manage over 10, which says a lot when it's got such a small fuel tank. 13 is the average number for a good streak on 1 fuel load in the 152. The 16 does the same in half the time.
A few month ago I took a P-40 for a ride. I encountered a P-38L and a P-51D at the same time at the same altitude. They both died.
One instance. Not a day in day out consistency like the spit16.
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I said 2-4 kills meaning I was furballing on my own next to an enemy base, and inside a 4:1 could keep lines to killshots on 2 and a couple of times 4 separate bandits. That means I could (and did) commit to one target and break off for a killshot on another and then go back to the one target without losing the dominant position. I went down with 7 kills. So here I am, saying it's a UFO. That's not enough? I can do 10 kills every sortie. One instance. Not a day in day out consistency like the spit16.
Do it, land, show me.
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LOL
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LOL
is there a problem?
I thought it was easy for you to land 10 kills in spit 16 in any sorti. Do it a few time, take some screen shots or videos. Post it here.
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Why do people care what other people fly?
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The spit16 is a noob plane if there ever was one. End of story.
After skimming threw 11 pages, this sentence is just about the only thing that was needed.
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So stodd can you answer the question in the 1st post
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is there a problem?
I thought it was easy for you to land 10 kills in spit 16 in any sorti. Do it a few time, take some screen shots or videos. Post it here.
I know moot could easily land 50 killls in a spit16 if he put his mind to it.
Machfly, what do you want from this thread? Nobody is going to over congratulate a spit16 pilot simply because it is the easiest plane in the game to fly. Nobody can tell you what to fly or what to think of a specific aircraft. Nobody who posted here is going to change their mind. Either accept the answers or admit you just want to keep the argument going?
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Nobody is going to over congratulate a spit16 pilot simply because it is the easiest plane in the game to fly. Nobody can tell you what to fly or what to think of a specific aircraft. Nobody who posted here is going to change their mind. Either accept the answers or admit you just want to keep the argument going?
I don't want to fly spit 16, my problem is that the actual aircraft (not the people who fly it) does not get any respect here.
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Respect it yourself, that is all that matters.
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The ironic part is that when it was rumored we were getting a cliped wing Spitfire,everyone was so gung Ho for it. Now look at the mess :cry
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This Isn't "real life". :aok
+ infinity :aok
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I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna post every single sortie. Watch and see all the things a spit16 can do, and you tell me any other plane can do it too.
First sortie. (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16_1.ahf) My gunnery's gone to hell and my hotas keeps disconnecting midflight. I waste time chasing two runners and ignore the bomber formations. I have a couple of kills all but done near the end.. They'd be dead if I wasn't rusty. You can already see it handles pretty much anything thrown at it, and even pulls some acm few other planes can match. e.g. that spiral evasive near the end.
I'm not gonna trim out the films, since it's you asking me to do this service for you.
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So stodd can you answer the question in the 1st post
I believe I already answered it a few pages back, if this was real life I would want to fly the superior plane...who wouldnt? :uhoh So to answer your question more specifically no I wouldnt say ""I'm not flying that thing, it's a noob plane"?
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Magic number 10 (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16again.ahf), with 1 extra for good measure, and this with the $%)(&_* joystick disconnecting twice, and wasting a ton of ammo on a lamer 190D9. At the end they just run away from a 5:1 on the deck. Had I 20mm left they would've died even quicker and I might have killed all but a couple of those too. So maybe 15 kills.
Machfly, say that the spit16 wasn't dominating everything that commited, in this film.
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Magic number 10 (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16again.ahf), with 1 extra for good measure, and this with the $%)(&_* joystick disconnecting twice, and wasting a ton of ammo on a lamer 190D9. At the end they just run away from a 5:1 on the deck. Had I 20mm left they would've died even quicker and I might have killed all but a couple of those too. So maybe 15 kills.
Machfly, say that the spit16 wasn't dominating everything that commited, in this film.
Now let us see if someone that has been playing for around 6 months can do the same. Willing to bet not likely.
ack-ack
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Magic number 10 (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16again.ahf), with 1 extra for good measure, and this with the $%)(&_* joystick disconnecting twice, and wasting a ton of ammo on a lamer 190D9. At the end they just run away from a 5:1 on the deck. Had I 20mm left they would've died even quicker and I might have killed all but a couple of those too. So maybe 15 kills.
Machfly, say that the spit16 wasn't dominating everything that commited, in this film.
Moot, that was AWESOME. your SA and gunnery were very impressive. So many HO-ers, so little time. I give some credit to that one 51 driver early on. He tried to fight you and didn't ho. That was serious pwnage. :aok
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Now let us see if someone that has been playing for around 6 months can do the same. Willing to bet not likely.
ack-ack
Or more to the point, I couldn't have done that with any other plane.
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Now let us see if someone that has been playing for around 6 months can do the same. Willing to bet not likely.
With breaks counted in, I've been playing 4 or 5 months. I could film my attempts for comparison?
-Zap
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I'm gonna do better. I'm gonna post every single sortie. Watch and see all the things a spit16 can do, and you tell me any other plane can do it too.
First sortie. (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16_1.ahf) My gunnery's gone to hell and my hotas keeps disconnecting midflight. I waste time chasing two runners and ignore the bomber formations. I have a couple of kills all but done near the end.. They'd be dead if I wasn't rusty. You can already see it handles pretty much anything thrown at it, and even pulls some acm few other planes can match. e.g. that spiral evasive near the end.
I'm not gonna trim out the films, since it's you asking me to do this service for you.
Magic number 10 (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film1_spit16again.ahf), with 1 extra for good measure, and this with the $%)(&_* joystick disconnecting twice, and wasting a ton of ammo on a lamer 190D9. At the end they just run away from a 5:1 on the deck. Had I 20mm left they would've died even quicker and I might have killed all but a couple of those too. So maybe 15 kills.
Machfly, say that the spit16 wasn't dominating everything that commited, in this film.
Your saying your not going to post the film because it is me who is asking you, OK. But honestly I'm finding it hard to believe that YOU could have done that.
so prove me wrong
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Yes, a noob in a spit16 will hand NathBDP his bellybutton about half the time, on a deck merge at 375mph.
Okay then genius, answer the other question: if it's so uber any noob becomes an instant top stick flying it, why does it have such a thoroughly mediocre k/d ratio? By my count it's tied for 15th place among non-perked fighters last tour. It's not even the top non-perked Spitfire. The P-51D beats it and has at least as much a reputation as a plane that clueless noobs gravitate to, so that's not the reason.
And sure, I understand it's not that simple and k/d ratio isn't the best yada yada yada... but it's the only hard stat we have to look at, isn't it? And it's not *that* skewed a measure. If the damned thing is a "UFO" like you claim, if it can take an otherwise 1 for 50 two-weeker and give him a 50-50 shot against anyone in the arena, I don't see how that could possibly not show up in the statistics. (And the stats certainly reflect the reverse: early war planes that are outmatched in the LW almost universally have very low k/d ratios, even though there probably aren't many bad pilots willing to fly them.)
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lol I love this thread.
The only people that don't think the spit16 is a n00b plane are the people that fly the spit16 often.
Check their stats vs their comments, it's hilarious.
Guys it's just a game, but lets face it - there are some things in this game that make you say...HMMMM.
The spit16 is just ONE of those things for me. Wibble wobble correctly (learn it from the folks that know it well) and you CANT get shot down, bottom line.
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Your saying your not going to post the film because it is me who is asking you, OK. But honestly I'm finding it hard to believe that YOU could have done that.
so prove me wrong
?? :lol Is your film viewer not working?
Okay then genius, answer the other question: if it's so uber any noob becomes an instant top stick flying it, why does it have such a thoroughly mediocre k/d ratio? By my count it's tied for 15th place among non-perked fighters last tour. It's not even the top non-perked Spitfire. The P-51D beats it and has at least as much a reputation as a plane that clueless noobs gravitate to, so that's not the reason.
And sure, I understand it's not that simple and k/d ratio isn't the best yada yada yada... but it's the only hard stat we have to look at, isn't it? And it's not *that* skewed a measure. If the damned thing is a "UFO" like you claim, if it can take an otherwise 1 for 50 two-weeker and give him a 50-50 shot against anyone in the arena, I don't see how that could possibly not show up in the statistics. (And the stats certainly reflect the reverse: early war planes that are outmatched in the LW almost universally have very low k/d ratios, even though there probably aren't many bad pilots willing to fly them.)
:rolleyes: UFO
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Okay then genius, answer the other question: if it's so uber any noob becomes an instant top stick flying it, why does it have such a thoroughly mediocre k/d ratio? By my count it's tied for 15th place among non-perked fighters last tour. It's not even the top non-perked Spitfire. The P-51D beats it and has at least as much a reputation as a plane that clueless noobs gravitate to, so that's not the reason.
And sure, I understand it's not that simple and k/d ratio isn't the best yada yada yada... but it's the only hard stat we have to look at, isn't it? And it's not *that* skewed a measure. If the damned thing is a "UFO" like you claim, if it can take an otherwise 1 for 50 two-weeker and give him a 50-50 shot against anyone in the arena, I don't see how that could possibly not show up in the statistics. (And the stats certainly reflect the reverse: early war planes that are outmatched in the LW almost universally have very low k/d ratios, even though there probably aren't many bad pilots willing to fly them.)
A) You know how hard it is to learn SA in this game? The view system is excellent, but absolutely takes time to get used to. Do you know how often you get shot down with bad SA? That is one very solid reason for beginners having the poor K/D, no matter what plane they are in. However, it has been shown that the Spit 16 is the go-to beginner player ride.
B) Most new players fly the P-51D for it's reputation, and many give up on it when they can't get kills, which they then move on to the Spit 16 once they realize they need to focus on basics (ie. SA, E-retention, etc.). Generally you will see experience pilots dogfighting the P-51D, and if they are not experienced then they are generally flying incredibly timid. Those are the only two times you will see a P-51D pilot with a high K/D. P.S. Take up a P-51D and go against a Spit 16 co-E, and then tell me that the P-51D beats it with any sense of ease. Even against not-so-good Spit pilots, fighting a Spit in a Pony will make you sweat. Most Pony pilots will NOT win in a fight against a Spit 16.
Once you get the flaps out on the Spit 16, the thing IS almost literally a UFO. Go try it, you can do incredible things with it. Even before flaps out, it's ability to burn and regenerate energy makes it extremely deadly and extremely forgiving of errors.
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Your saying your not going to post the film because it is me who is asking you, OK. But honestly I'm finding it hard to believe that YOU could have done that.
so prove me wrong
Ummm he did post the film.
As good as moot is some of those people in that film were just awful.
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2-4 kills in 1 sorti is not alot. Try getting 7+ (with no re-arming) in that spitfire and then say how much of a UFO that is. Today I landed 10 kills in F4U, how come no one is screaming that it's a UFO or a noob plane for that matter?
Well aren't you something. Ohhh wait... you don't typically land 10 kills so using this example is bunk. In fact, you average a very pedestrian 2.23 kills per sortie. *yawn*.
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You asked....no...demanded that moot prove how easy it is, he has done it almost instantly and with style.
case closed :rock
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EDIT:
<-- Fell behind...
Thanks for dragging me back up front Steve! :P
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Wouldn't that prove his point? His average kills are 2.23, but lands 11 in a Spit 16...?
I'm not talking about Moot. Come dude... keep up.
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A) You know how hard it is to learn SA in this game?
[etc.]
Sure, I get that. There are a hundred ways for a novice pilot to get killed, and that's only because he hasn't personally experienced the 101st yet. But that affects every other plane too.
Once you get the flaps out on the Spit 16, the thing IS almost literally a UFO. Go try it, you can do incredible things with it. Even before flaps out, it's ability to burn and regenerate energy makes it extremely deadly and extremely forgiving of errors.
Sure, of course. That's why I fly it half the time - and I make no claims of being a good fighter jock! It is forgiving and lacks vices and relatively easy for a new pilot to learn in. But that's where it ends. This stuff moot is slinging just doesn't fly. It's not the wonder weapon that substitutes for skill, and it doesn't give a 2-weeker anything remotely like a 50-50 shot against a master. It certainly hasn't made me invincible - I do better in it, but not *that* much better.
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?? :lol Is your film viewer not working?
sorry, did not see the links. And I guess WTG
just 1 question:
Or more to the point, I couldn't have done that with any other plane.
If you could have done that in any plane than what advantage did the spit 16 give you?
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Well aren't you something. Ohhh wait... you don't typically land 10 kills so using this example is bunk. In fact, you average a very pedestrian 2.23 kills per sortie. *yawn*.
just for you
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7318/44514443.jpg)
I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.
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just for you
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7318/44514443.jpg)
I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.
More of the exact same tripe. You posted one tidbit of anecdotal evidence, and it happened to be in the best prop plane in the game, and expect to make a counterpoint with it. No.
Not only that, it's a perked plane which actually plays into Moot's side of the argument.
Start averaging 10 kills per sortie and your argument might make sense. You don't though, you average around 2 per sortie, regardless of your reasons.
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I don't try to land 10+ kills daily, for 2 reasons A. I don't care about the kills per sortie B. Coming home is much more important, so I would rather just RTB than stay and risk getting 10 kills. I don't play this game just to increase the # of kills I have per sortie, I play it so it would be like the simulation of real WWII combat. And in how many of thous sorties during WWII did the pilots get 0 kills? I would say it's most of them.
Can you fly like m00t did in that film?
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Nice flying m00t. :aok
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It's not the wonder weapon that substitutes for skill, and it doesn't give a 2-weeker anything remotely like a 50-50 shot against a master. It certainly hasn't made me invincible
It substitutes for skill. How much is the real question, instead of the bogus all/nothing quality you're saying. I didn't say "master". The only real "masters" in this game are a couple of guys who consistently compete for top spot even e.g. after not playing for a long while. Like Drex. I never said master, I said the spit16 gives you a good 50/50 chance if you're past the stage where you can't keep the plane in the air. If you're an average player in a spit16 and run into an experienced player in an average plane, you do have a significant chance to win it, mostly thanks to the plane. I mean, WTF do you think it's at ENY 5 for?? I don't know how that's not obvious; except for you just having a bone to pick with me. I never said invincible either.. I mean which is it, taking your argument for granted for a minute. Is it 50/50 against a master, or is it invincible? You're just pissed off because I called out your precious spit16 for the crutch it is.
So I'll say it again. To the question "Is the spit16 a noob plane?", yeah, it's pretty freakin obvious it is. For the reasons I gave. You can afford to make all sorts of mistakes in it and still carry on with barely any penalties. This goes for the seafire, spit8 and 9 to a somewhat lesser degree. The spit5 was neutered a while back and the spit1 is what it is. What you and anyone else who reads this might notice, if you gave it a proper consideration instead of your retarded fudge and denial, is that the spit16 does allow you to dodge to no end. You can stay alive in it as long as you wish. The difference with e.g. a 190D9 is that it survives by getting out of the fight. The Spit16 allows you to not only stay in the fight, but shoot em down. In e.g. a D9, you can only dictate the fight from a dominant position. You just ignore all these subtleties for the sake of having the last word.
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If you couldn't have done that in any plane than what advantage did the spit 16 give you?
The right mix of swift agility (as opposed to e.g. the P38's "slow" agility with fowler flaps out, or the Ki84's agility "restricted" to that very low flaps deploy speed), thrust to spare, dead simple ballistics. This all adds up to you being able to both be where you want to when you have to, but also shoot easily, and corresponding defensive abilities. You can fly downwards and cork out to nearly 90deg from a spiral "on a dime" evasive, you can put the thing sideways and recover like a cat thrown across the room, etc. I wish I'd filmed my first sortie. You can see the spit16 engaged in a 4:1 with 1 or 2 orbiting at 4K, managing that 4:1 the whole time. Saddled on an La7 trying its best oblique circles, an N1K trying to BNZ pretty tight, a Yak doing a mix of tight consecutive passes, and a P40 trying to keep up.. I nailed the N1K and Yak on one of their exits but screwed up the timing on the shots so they lived, and could still afford to break off midway thru a sustained lead turn on the La7 for a quick snapshot at the P40.. No other plane allows you this. Not the Ki84, not the P38, not the zeke (too little excess thrust), not the 109F, not the N1K (too sluggish in acceleration and nowhere near as forgiving at and past departure), none of the CV planes (F4Fs too damn slow).. and so on.
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If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?
P-47N
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190A-5
Spitfire Mk XIV
F4U-4
P-38J
Fw 190D-9
Hurricane Mk IIC
P-51D
Tempest
And nearly equal K/D rates in these?
Spitfire Mk IX
Bf 109K-4
F6F-5
FM2
N1K2
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You're flying it wrong or flying the others more correctly, or some combination of that. Additionally, the spit16 thrives in furballing, whereas half or more of those other planes don't work in situations where they can't escape for E, such as knee deep in furballs. That means you're that much more removed from kills, instead of having them directly near you and at slow speed, IOW just a few seconds from dying. You have to manage your fights further to the BNZ side of the spectrum.
Asking why the P47N or 190A8 doesn't have a K/D comparable to the Spit16 is disingenuous. K/D doesn't tell the whole story. It doesn't reveal that, for instance, the Tempest just trims the furballs at high speed because it would get mauled in a slow knife fight, including because it's a perk prize. The Spit16's admittedly no level speed champion, but it does have top tier climb and E retention, which allows it to be competitive at high speed. That means it's got just a marginal disadvantage in its only weak area.
Read the topic: "the spit16 is a noob plane". That means easy to use, forgiving, and possibly lethal with little effort. All of which it is.
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If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?
The performance of the Spitfire goads pilots into being too aggressive in situations where in other aircraft they would back off, gain altitude, extend, etc.
I've been flying the Spit IX this tour (it's my Tunisia ride) and I find myself getting ganged frequently, something which doesn't often happen to me in other rides. The explanation isn't so much the low speed of the IX as it is that when I'm in a Spit I insist on killing the guy after I begin an attack because I know there's no possible way he can outmaneuver me. My target, in desperation, drags me lower and toward his friendlies, and low and behold I get ganged.
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To be short and not rape english language too much, moot has said all i would; if i could type decent english :aok
puujiiko
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If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?
I've seen how you fly.
You fly with extreme caution... timidity... call it what you will. In a spixteen you can get very aggressive, even more than most other planes because it is so forgiving. Your flying style doesn't allow you to exploit this.
The performance of the Spitfire goads pilots into being too aggressive
Baldeagl doesn't need to worry about that.
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If the Spit XVI is such an uber ride in the hands of an experienced pilot and it's one of my primary rides (and I consider myself experienced) why do I have consistantly better K/D rates in all of these?
<snip>
And nearly equal K/D rates in these?
<snip>
Because they force you to think before you engage. You cant just hurl a P51D into a multi-con engagement and expect to live. You need to consider your situation, consider your weaknesses and engage accordingly.
With the 16, since there are no weaknesses, you just dive right in.
As moot stated, any player-specific K/D comparison between the Spit16, which has no real deficiency compared to the rest of the plane set, and an aircraft which DOES have deficiencies (every other one), is a poor test because the flight mentality is different, making the results of the test invalid.
Honestly I dont really understand why this discussion is even continuing. Stating that the 16 is not a UFO is ridiculous. It is.
So, cutting through all that BS, lets just call it what it is: those claiming the 16 is not a UFO would simply rather feel good about themselves when they land kills in it instead of feel ashamed because they are perceived to require a crutch by the rest of the community.
The 16 is a UFO. Thats not bad. Thats not good. It just is what it is. Period, end of story.
Hell, if moots films arent enough, I'd be glad to participate in some testing if you like. I think Ive flown twice in the past few weeks so I'm way out of tune to begin with, which should work even better. So long as I'm in a 16, you can fly whichever other aircraft you like because the result will be the same, regardless.
I'll even fold laundry at the same time, or something.
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The only reason I'm making waves when I call out the spit16 for what it is, is that I don't hide the fact that I dislike the plane. It'd be hypocritical to do so. Anyone else could have presented these arguments and they would have gone by even less challenged.
Nowhere did I say, nor do I think, that someone should feel bad about flying it, or liking the thing, whether historically or e.g. from a design point of view. I don't care at all about that, about the players in those spitfires.. fly it and flog it to death. It's what the game's about, the passion (however embarassing) for flying and dogfighting even if just in pixels.
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Like moot, I'm open in my general dislike for the spit16, but for different reasons. I think the flight model is inaccurate. I think it's generally a buggy FM that allows such UFO manuvers.
However, that said, there is NO QUESTION that the spit16 and spit8 are total UFOs.
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I have only one thing to add to m00t´s posts.
Resorting to flying the 16 for getting kicks of winning against more skilled individuals in lesser planes, is like enjoying dancing tango in a certain bar featured in the movies "Police Academy" ...just plain wrong to my taste, but hey, like everyone says "its their choice" :salute
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the 16 does have one profound weakness, that being a very weak airframe. Wings fall off after a few pings. That is its only weakness apart from the pilot, who can only themself make the difference between 10 kills and a lawn dart.
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Well moot I agree with that, I know spit 16 allows you to make a hole bunch of mistakes and still survive, and I do agree that it should be perked. The reason why I told you to get thous kills is because you were bragging about it.
The reason why I started this thread is to see weather most people just disrespect it because it's easy to fly and alot of un-experienced people fly it or for some other reason. On 200 I see alot of people calling it dweebfire, noobfire, or what ever it was, the problem I have with that is it's a spitfire and it earned it place in history. Therefore it should be respected, no matter who fly's it.
So moot do you respect the spitfire as an airplane or not? You might call the people who are flying it "noobs" but it's just not right to call an airplane that. And here is an example why:
Today one of our bases fell under attack of a bish CV and there were just not enough rooks to protect it. I took of on a spitfire 16 because it was about 5-7 rooks vs 20+bish. I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16, but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy? For a low alt outnumbered defense mission. And even thought I was on a superior aircraft it was not easy because I was outnumbered. During my 1st sorti I ran out of ammo and went back to base, I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
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Saying that is easy to get kills in is not giving respect to the plane? :huh
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Quote from: MachFly on April 07, 2009, 09:17:52 PM
I landed 6 kills, and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob". You tell me, what that a noob thing to do? Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
There's probably a higher chance that 80% didn't see the msg, 19% who did see didn't care, and 1% cared for about 1.98 seconds.
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:lol
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? You might call the people who are flying it "noobs" but it's just not right to call an airplane that.
Your rite after all planes have feelings too ya know <G>
Pipz
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It can't be perked.. It's just outside of perk worthiness.. If it gets perked, it shouldn't be for more than 1 or 2 perks max., and then some other planes would deserve as much.
The one weakness of the spit16 is that it isn't very fast level. That it's not rugged is mostly mitigated by how easily it dodges fire.
The respect thing is pretty nebulous. What does that mean? That I esteem its ability, or its design, or the esthetics, or as an actor in the AH arenas, or historically, the list goes on of all the different aspects to "respecting" an airplane. And even if you dislike it as I do, you may very well just neither respect nor disrespect it.. just be indifferent to it. I'm somewhere between those two. I have no problem admitting that historically it was on the "good guys" side, and that it was instrumental in beating the evil bad guys. Or that it's pretty much what you want to give soldiers in a war, namely a tool that's polyvalent and easy to use, forgiving and efficient, a design as foolproof as you can get them. In war it doesn't matter whatsoever how stupid something looks, only that it gets the job done. In that respect the spitfire is a great plane. It very much is one of the quintessential WWII warbird designs.
But in AH I think it's a bore, in fact I stopped soon after getting those magic 10 kills because the plane literally evaporates my motivation. Aside the fact that esthetically it's ugly as sin, it gives you no challenge. It flies around with no character, no quirks, it's bland as Honda's ASIMO bot's tango routine. It's neither hot nor cold, it's a pedestrian ride that I literally want to fly into the ground so I can move on to something more engaging. I mean that's the whole point of the game. To have the game grab your interest and pull you into the experience.
When I see some guys flying the spitfire in a furball, I just wonder wtf the point is. You aren't playing with the other guy because you're not offering any sort of level competition. The only way to compete with the spit while in e.g. a 190 is to skewer it BNZ style. And I can do that fine, but it's boring. It's boring to have so many players flying a kite that doesn't push them to improve their ACM so that the fights are at least a little varied instead of the same couple of flat turns, generic loops, or negative G dodges, all with mile-wide margins of error. That huge allowable margin of error removes most of the accountability for good versus bad decisions and enables the persistance of lower, rather than higher, quality of dogfighting craft. That right there is what dweeb is about. Winning without earning it.
You might call the people who are flying it "noobs"
Where, show me where I said that. I said the Spit16 is a noob plane. There's a difference. It lends itself to noobs and enables bad flying to go "unpunished". Make a mistake in e.g. a 190A8 or A20.. and your bellybutton is grass. Night and day difference.
and i'm pretty sure about 80% of the people that were online and sow it thought "what a noob"
wrong again.
Or should have I just ditched the kills like one guy in my old squad did ones because he was ashamed of being seen in spitfire 16?
again
I'm pretty sure all thous bish were screaming get that noob or something like that just because I was in spitfire 16,
again
but what do you expect me to take? P-40? 190? P-38? Tiffy?
Fly whatever you want, that's beside the point. You could very well have flown any of those successfully. Though it would have been way harder than with the S16, and the P40 would be a particularily dodgy choice.
I have only one thing to add to m00t´s posts.
Resorting to flying the 16 for getting kicks of winning against more skilled individuals in lesser planes, is like enjoying dancing tango in a certain bar featured in the movies "Police Academy" ...just plain wrong to my taste, but hey, like everyone says "its their choice" :salute
Nothing to add, but that I think it's fine when the spit16 allows even odds. That makes fights as good as they're meant to be.. I don't care who's in the spit16/8/9. But the Spit16 is overkill for all but the players lowest along the learning curve.
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The respect thing is pretty nebulous. What does that mean? That I esteem its ability, or its design, or the esthetics, or as an actor in the AH arenas, or historically, the list goes on of all the different aspects to "respecting" an airplane. And even if you dislike it as I do, you may very well just neither respect nor disrespect it.. just be indifferent to it. I'm somewhere between those two. I have no problem admitting that historically it was on the "good guys" side, and that it was instrumental in beating the evil bad guys. Or that it's pretty much what you want to give soldiers in a war, namely a tool that's polyvalent and easy to use, forgiving and efficient, a design as foolproof as you can get them. In war it doesn't matter whatsoever how stupid something looks, only that it gets the job done. In that respect the spitfire is a great plane. It very much is one of the quintessential WWII warbird designs.
exactly, proves my point
But in AH I think it's a bore, in fact I stopped soon after getting those magic 10 kills because the plane literally evaporates my motivation. Aside the fact that esthetically it's ugly as sin, it gives you no challenge. It flies around with no character, no quirks, it's bland as Honda's ASIMO bot's tango routine. It's neither hot nor cold, it's a pedestrian ride that I literally want to fly into the ground so I can move on to something more engaging. I mean that's the whole point of the game. To have the game grab your interest and pull you into the experience.
When I see some guys flying the spitfire in a furball, I just wonder wtf the point is. You aren't playing with the other guy because you're not offering any sort of level competition. The only way to compete with the spit while in e.g. a 190 is to skewer it BNZ style. And I can do that fine, but it's boring. It's boring to have so many players flying a kite that doesn't push them to improve their ACM so that the fights are at least a little varied instead of the same couple of flat turns, generic loops, or negative G dodges, all with mile-wide margins of error. That huge allowable margin of error removes most of the accountability for good versus bad decisions and enables the persistance of lower, rather than higher, quality of dogfighting craft. That right there is what dweeb is about. Winning without earning it.
yes, i completely agree that it's much easier to fly spit 16 than most other planes and more boring.
Where, show me where I said that.
When I said you I did not mean you moot, i meant you in general, as people.
wrong again.
again
again
you are entitled to your opinion.
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Batty says the only weakness is a weak airframe. I disagree. I've put many solid 2x20mm bursts into spits numerous times and not killed them. It's a solid plane (as much as most average planes). It's definitely no A6M, that's for sure.
Moot says the only weakness is the slow speed. Consider it out accelerates 90% of the planeset and has a top speed more than most of the planes in the game. That means at any point UNDER the max speed it can out-accelerate whatever it's chasing and run it down. With a small dive it can build up ungodly amounts of speed and HOLD it after levelling for stupidly long amounts of time.
Speed is not an issue. YOu run into a spit16 and you know you can't run from it unless you're in a pony. [EDIT: And even then I've successfully chased down fleeing P51Ds in my spit16 many times]
It outclimbs everything, outturns everthing, outshoots everything, outruns almost everything, outaccelerates almost everthing. There is no weakness (save for range, which isn't an issue for unbalancing planes)
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Batty says the only weakness is a weak airframe. I disagree. I've put many solid 2x20mm bursts into spits numerous times and not killed them. It's a solid plane (as much as most average planes). It's definitely no A6M, that's for sure.
I have to agree with batfink. The Spitfire's wing and tail section are rather weak and it only takes a single burst to either remove the wing or the tail. I didn't even bother to waste any 20mm rounds on any of the Spitfires, a single burst of .50s is enough to kill one.
ack-ack
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Machfly, it's my opinion that those player's assumption that the guy in the spit16 is a noob is a hasty conclusion and more importantly beside the point. "Is he going to be a fun playmate" would be more relevant.
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moot,
Spits have quirks. The severity of them varies, but they have them, the Mk I and Mk XIV have them in spades.
As to it being ugly as sin, well, fortunately your taste in looks is abnormal.
Nobody is saying you have to like it, but pissing on other people's likes is going to get their hackles up and that is exactly what you are doing when you state a bunch of snide innuendo about their likes.
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Machfly, it's my opinion that those player's assumption that the guy in the spit16 is a noob is a hasty conclusion and more importantly beside the point. "Is he going to be a fun playmate" would be more relevant.
ok
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9360/deadhorse.gif)
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Batty says the only weakness [snip]
I said it's 'one profound weakness' not only weakness, i think it has others such as poor ability to slow down in a hurry and unstable wingloading in certain attitudes.
As to damage, I have hit spitfires in the engine block with 30mm and seen them fly home with an oil leak. Thats a bad place to aim for, one good 20mm is enough to remove the tail and the wings are certainly the easiest target to hit in a turn than most other fighters. just my opinion of course.
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I've seen how you fly.
You fly with extreme caution... timidity... call it what you will. In a spixteen you can get very aggressive, even more than most other planes because it is so forgiving. Your flying style doesn't allow you to exploit this.
Baldeagl doesn't need to worry about that.
You've only seen me fly a handful of times. Once you picked me while I was already engaged, another time you ran then came back to pick me while I was engaged in a 3 on 1. Once we sort of winged together but I ws in a K4 and the other time you flew by underneath me while your were RTB and I was headed out, asking me to go help another friendly in trouble. How you come up with timid out of that I don't know.
Why did you turn into such a a@@ all of a sudden? You used to be an OK guy.
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moot,
Spits have quirks. The severity of them varies, but they have them, the Mk I and Mk XIV have them in spades.
As to it being ugly as sin, well, fortunately your taste in looks is abnormal.
Nobody is saying you have to like it, but pissing on other people's likes is going to get their hackles up and that is exactly what you are doing when you state a bunch of snide innuendo about their likes.
Sure, the spit 1 and XIV. The V has a terrible aileron authority to one side at low speed, e.g. coming over the top of a vert. The seafire and IX's quirks are less visible, and you have to really ignore the plane's feedback to get into that flat/invert spin.. The 8 and XVI's quirks are barely noticeable unless you purposedly look for them.
-Esthetic taste: Sorry, but where the hurricane is smurfy and embraces it, the spit is a smurfy plane pretending to look good. The XIV starts to look ok, pretty much all the others in AH look completely ordinary. No character. I've seen a couple of other model spits, and I know there's a later mark that looks damn good. Like what the spit was meant to look like. I can't remember which one it is. The double prop looks ok too.
-Pissing on others likes.. No two people have the same tastes. I'm not saying at all that people are wrong in their tastes.. Taste is inarguable. I empathize with people who like spits, as far as them being warbirds, flying war machines, or just the design aspect. I don't see spits as good looking though. The butterfly elliptical wing ends? :lol
Now the mossie OTOH :D On the mossie the ellipticals are a great fit.
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Main quirk on the Mk VIII is how unbalanced the controls get at speed, light, responsive elevators and extremely stiff and slow reactions on the ailerons.
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I think MACH is looking for some adoration from the community. Not gonna happen from where I sit.
Let us recall machs actions in our squad, refused to ever fly anything hvy, JABO run mach in spit16, bomber run mach in spit 16, squad changes country for a month mach hunting squaddies and hoing in a spit 16. Mach gets busted for spying, giving up a rook mission to a knight (on film), quits before getting booted.
Mach your a spit dweeb spying loser, face facts.
Not really even worth my time posting to this, but you are a wimp that epitomizes all spit16 wimps.
Thank you byebye
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Telling other players that they are wrong to use a very good tool in the game is sheer ass-hattery, nothing less, nothing more. Everyone has the same access to the same tools.
It is like choosing to fish only with dry flies, then complaining if the guy next to you catches more with live bait.
Then there are some who campaign to keep live bait unrestricted in their favorite stream, THEN complain when the old guy next to 'em shows up with a spinning rod and a bucket...'cause he's too "experienced" to use bait, WTF? :devil
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That's a bad analogy (no fishes in AH, only fishermen), and I don't think anyone's argued that others ought to not fly the spit16. Just that it's a noob plane because it's pretty much a UFO.
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Is that a statement directed at AH's flight model or at the people who built the spitfire?
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My post? The people who built the spit have nothing to do with AH. Unless you mean HT's coad.
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the AcesHigh flight model is wrong then for the spit16?
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That's a moot point..
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I only read the first couple pages...
If I was flying for the RAF in WW2 and they assigned me a Spit XVI, I would gladly fly it. My life would be on the line, and I would want my plane to as good as possible. I would want every advantage over my opponent. I would not want the fight to be fair.
In this game, though, where the object is to have fun and where dying doesn't matter, I would hate to have to fly the Spit XVI all the time. It's not challenging, I'm not interested in it (relative to other planes), and I would look like a dweeb.
If the original poster is trying to draw some sort of parallel between the two situations, I think they're grasping at straws. AH2 =/ WW2, and anyone insinuating that we should, for some reason, act like this is an actual war needs take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard.
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I don't fly the spit, I don't Fight the spit (Unless it's a noob)
I don't fly the spit because it is so Maneuverable, when i try to fly the other planes their like bricks! which is why Back when I started I used the P-39 as my Training aircraft.
I don't fight the spit because it can do anything and everything. Literally.
If I was to be assigned a spit in WWII I would say no. Why? I am 14, and it takes alot more than Just Pressing a button and applying throttle to get one in the air. Plus I don't have My Pilots License.
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I think MACH is looking for some adoration from the community. Not gonna happen from where I sit.
Let us recall machs actions in our squad, refused to ever fly anything hvy, JABO run mach in spit16, bomber run mach in spit 16, squad changes country for a month mach hunting squaddies and hoing in a spit 16. Mach gets busted for spying, giving up a rook mission to a knight (on film), quits before getting booted.
Mach your a spit dweeb spying loser, face facts.
Not really even worth my time posting to this, but you are a wimp that epitomizes all spit16 wimps.
Thank you byebye
Actually, I respectfully disagree. He didnt rat-out a mission, we were finding each other because we were on other sides. He sarcastically commented about a mission, to make me think there wasnt one on the way with him.. so, he wasnt really spying or anything, just asking where each other were so we could have a good fight was all. (on film)
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I'm still learning the game, I fly the spit 16 :D . I find it the best plane to learn in due to it be fairly good at most things, its a good plane to use the skills and tips the air training corps trainers teach me and then transfer these maneuvers to the main arena, but image aside, what ever plane you have fun flying should be the plane you fly, I like the mossie, FW190 - D9 and spits but I am only flying spits until my skill gets better and I can move on to my other fav planes, I think this is better instead of jumping into a harder plane and getting frustrated if I keep getting shot down.
sorry its quite late, hopefully it makes sense
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If I was flying for the RAF in WW2 and they assigned me a Spit XVI, I would gladly fly it. My life would be on the line, and I would want my plane to as good as possible. I would want every advantage over my opponent. I would not want the fight to be fair.
+1
Also the spit is easily the best looking plane in the set, spits have two fall points they arnt fast enough to rtb when bingo ammo/fuel and cons on your 6, fair enough there fast but most late war birds can outrun them and they fall apart when you break wind near them.
Spits R teh b35t :aok
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+1
Also the spit is easily the best looking plane in the set
Are you British or something? ;) In your opinion, it may be the best looking but not everybody is patriotically beer-goggling here. The Spit is an OK looking plane, save for the wings (that look as flamboyantly fruity as that psycho judge from the Miss USA pageant) which ruin the look, just as the awesome gull wings of the Corsair make an otherwise ugly plane kinda cool. The clipped-wing 16 is the best looking of the bunch. (I just threw up a little in my mouth)
For the Spitfire worshippers, I have compiled a list of the planes in AH2 that (in my opinion) are less attractive than your beauty queen. I was going to make a list of the planes (including bombers) that are either prettier or cooler looking, but that list was much larger.
Planes that are less attractive than the Spitfire:
A-20
Boston
B-26
B5N
D3A
F4F-4
FM2
Hurricane (all)
IL2
Ki-61 (actually tie with Spit16)
Ki-67
P-39 (both)
Though obviously excellent performance-wise, I think the looks of the aircraft leave much to be desired. As you were. :D
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Nah its nothing to do with me being a Brit :D on a serious note tho i do find the spit to be the best looking yes i was serious its beutifull, i honestly couldnt tell you what or why i think its so nice, im not going to get into it with anyone here about that because people have different tastes i also think the P-51D is a beutifull looking plane too infact there all beutifull in there own way. :salute
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Spit is a very beautiful aircraft definitely one of the better looking aircraft, P40 would prob be the worst looking plane in Aces High :D
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Are you British or something? ;) In your opinion, it may be the best looking but not everybody is patriotically beer-goggling here. The Spit is an OK looking plane, save for the wings (that look as flamboyantly fruity as that psycho judge from the Miss USA pageant) which ruin the look, just as the awesome gull wings of the Corsair make an otherwise ugly plane kinda cool. The clipped-wing 16 is the best looking of the bunch. (I just threw up a little in my mouth)
For the Spitfire worshippers, I have compiled a list of the planes in AH2 that (in my opinion) are less attractive than your beauty queen. I was going to make a list of the planes (including bombers) that are either prettier or cooler looking, but that list was much larger.
Planes that are less attractive than the Spitfire:
A-20
Boston
B-26
B5N
D3A
F4F-4
FM2
Hurricane (all)
IL2
Ki-61 (actually tie with Spit16)
Ki-67
P-39 (both)
Though obviously excellent performance-wise, I think the looks of the aircraft leave much to be desired. As you were. :D
Erm, it is kinda funny that you denigrate his opinion and then blather yours like yours counts for more. I hate to break it to you, but the Spitfire is widely (not universally) seen as one of the best looking aircraft ever. You, not him, are in the minority.
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Erm, it is kinda funny that you denigrate his opinion and then blather yours like yours counts for more. I hate to break it to you, but the Spitfire is widely (not universally) seen as one of the best looking aircraft ever. You, not him, are in the minority.
For me, the Spitfire is one if not the most beautiful planes to fly, ever! But I'm British so take it with a pinch of salt.
(http://www.deroeck.co.uk/Spitfire-pictures/Spitfire-Mk-XIV-JE-J-03.jpg)
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I just can't see how you might find the most ordinary airplane design anything special. This isn't meant to denigrate, it's just articulating what seems to make no sense to you guys. Looking at it, I get the same nonplussed effect as looking at a zero.. It looks like it's meant to stand still.. It's not a bird of prey at all. The tempest has the same kind of look. The mossie looks gorgeous and I really like the Beaufighter. So it's not just dislike for RAF kites for the sake of it.
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As I said, you are in the minority on that.
For me, the Spitfire Mk XIV with the more aggressive Griffon nose screams "pure fighter/killer" more than any other WWII aircraft.
Conversely, for me the P-40 looks klunky although I know I am in the minority on that.
Oh, I like the looks of the A6M5 as well.
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As I said, you are in the minority on that.
But keep in mind this "majority" of people considering the Spit to be the most beautiful do not know more than 1-3 planes from WWII at all..
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Clipped spit is only half as beautifull in my opinion, the shape of a spitfire is so distinct to me that clipped it looks as obvious as a dog that has no paws that something is missing.
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But keep in mind this "majority" of people considering the Spit to be the most beautiful do not know more than 1-3 planes from WWII at all..
Many of them are WWII aircraft buffs too.
Clipped spit is only half as beautifull in my opinion, the shape of a spitfire is so distinct to me that clipped it looks as obvious as a dog that has no paws that something is missing.
Agreed.
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The Tempest, for me, with it's massive intake and streamline body just screams killer!
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You don't remember, but I already said I think the XIV starts to look more like what the spitfire could've (should've IMO, as far as esthetics are concerned) been. That one, the double prop one, and one more late war variant whose mark# I can't recall..
Anyway, it really doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees or which pov's more popular. I'm just adding my perspective to the picture. The spit's most common form is too pedestrian.
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Erm, it is kinda funny that you denigrate his opinion and then blather yours like yours counts for more. I hate to break it to you, but the Spitfire is widely (not universally) seen as one of the best looking aircraft ever. You, not him, are in the minority.
I did not nor did I intend to denigrate anyone's opinion. If so, I apologize. I stated my opinion clearly as "my opinion" and pointed out that "the spit is easily the best looking plane in the set" was only the other bloke's opinion. He worded it as if it were the gospel truth. He did not take offense, why did you? By your logic, you are denigrating my opinion.
Forgive me if I am in the minority of people that don't have a chubby for the Spitfire. The first time I saw it was in a Time-Life book in 7th grade and disliked it from the get-go. I have much respect for the plane itself but think its combat performance is a major reason for the idolization of the aesthetics of the design.
P40 would prob be the worst looking plane in Aces High :D
:) In my opinion, the bubble canopied P-47 is the coolest looking aircraft of WWII.
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I wouldnt say i worded it as if it was gospel truth i merely stated that i like the damn bird and yeah karnak is right you fobbed my opinion and replaced it with your own like what i say or think doesnt matter :huh but your right too i havnt taken any offense as i feel you wasnt meaning to offend anyone :salute
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I have much respect for the plane itself but think its combat performance is a major reason for the idolization of the aesthetics of the design.
Its not fat its elegant and is curved almost everywhere, men like curves the more the better thats prob the reason :lol
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The elliptical wing is a very elegant and efficient design. Producing far less induced drag then other, more traditional, shapes. The Spitfire wings are truly beautiful from an aerodynamic standpoint.
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I wouldnt say i worded it as if it was gospel truth i merely stated that i like the damn bird and yeah karnak is right you fobbed my opinion and replaced it with your own like what i say or think doesnt matter :huh but your right too i havnt taken any offense as i feel you wasnt meaning to offend anyone :salute
It's true, I meant no offense. Didn't say I wasn't trying to ruffle a few feathers though. :D
And pervert, the Jug is not fat. It just has a "plus-sized" fuselage. :)
edit: Since we have so many Spit models in the game, I would like to hijack this thread to request the uber P-47M:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/p4712.jpg)
Saw this very plane fly and up close on the ground. It is a stunner.
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It's true, I meant no offense. Didn't say I wasn't trying to ruffle a few feathers though. :D
Haha :rofl