Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WING47 on December 11, 2009, 06:57:03 PM
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I have a debatable question. What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills.
Personally, I'm not trying to be by est but i think the one vs one proves more.
Only because it requires allot of physical and mental skill. However, getting, particularly
landing kills requires SA and mental skills.
I'm not asking for facts but simply opinions.So feel free to state yours, I will
not argue.
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1v1.
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1v1 definitly, but then comes in the skill used to fight in a large furball and not die but still get kills.
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It depends on how the pilot is flying.
It takes skill to survive in a multi-plane enviroment just as it takes skill to win in a 1 on 1.
But..
Take the timid picker type who is always landing 3-5 kills. When you force a 1 on 1 on them they tend to die quick. Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
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Im divided on this one, I would say 1v1, simply because it shows that you can hold your own. But I have squadies who can land 15-20 kills WITHOUT picking or HOing or generally being timid. I would say that deserves equal praise.
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It goes both ways.
There will be times when you may find yourself in a 1v1 situation. Your knowledge of E management along with ACM will get you out of a jamb. Your chances of getting killed are greater if there are other enemies nearby, as they would swoop in on you when youre low on E.
However, if youre in a situation where you are outnumbered, or have altitude advantage, good use of SA, patience, and ability to cycle through your targets as you make passes are going to pay off. You have to be able to "read" a fight and predict the enemies' next move before you swoop down to make a pass. Some would call this tactic "picking".
This can be a controversial subject when speaking of "fighter jocks" and "picktards". Assuming you know your aircraft very well, you would be confident in its flight characteristics, and therefore would likely be seeking a 1v1 engagement to try your hand out with ACM. Or you could fly smart, by maintaining an altitude advantage over other enemies and "pick" them off as they climb up to you. So what proves skill?
Regardless of what method you use, both requires skill to some degree. Some people fly big heavy planes, and prefer the "picking" method to stay alive. Then you have those people that completely resent this style of fight and prefer strict 1v1, because they feel that method is the rightful way of fighting, and proves skill.
To draw my conclusion-
It depends on the situation. Your ability to adapt to the fight will ultimately tell if youre skilled. In my personal opinion, it dont matter how you get a kill (except for hoing), only that you get a kill. In other words, a kill is a kill. There is no right or wrong. Fighting a 1v1 makes you no more skillfull than someone that knows how to BnZ.
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two different skillsets, But the guy that can survive and land multiple kills with no deaths is the more relevant in MA play.
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It depends on how the pilot is flying.
It takes skill to survive in a multi-plane enviroment just as it takes skill to win in a 1 on 1.
But..
Take the timid picker type who is always landing 3-5 kills. When you force a 1 on 1 on them they tend to die quick. Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
No, they can't or every weenie would do so. Apparently, the average player CAN'T even go to base under attack with a fast plane that has good firepower and bnz their way to 3-1 k/d...or even a 1-1 k/d...or they would.
We (meaning people who post on this forum) all tend to favor 1v1 "duels" as the end-all, be-all of skill. There is a reason for that. We are good at it, better than 90% of the playerbase. In the other thing, MA multibandit madness, gunnery becomes the most crucial skill. Gunnery doesn't relate to years of experience vs. natural talent the same way ACM does...gunnery is a thing where some "noobs" get it immediately, and some vets aren't very good at it way these years down the road. Trust me, nothing galls the mind of a vet more than the fact that some otherwise clueless "gamer" tends to land more kills per sortie than they do, even though they don't know a rolling scissors from pruning scissors, simply because they never miss a "pick".
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There's skill in both. One is knowing your aircraft extremely well and the other is understanding the situation very well. And there is obviously overlap on both sets. I've seen good pilots that are great at situational awareness, and great pilots that aren't very good at SA. I however haven't seen a poor pilot great at SA, but that's becouse I believe SA is something that is learned through experience in combat. You can teach someone to be a good 1v1 pilot, becouse it's kinda like a game of chess, with moves and counter moves. But teaching good SA is almost something that has to be self taught through personal experience. The goal is to obviously be good at both. I think the 1v1 guys get more of the glory but I don't think they are any more skilled the the great SA guys.
:salute
BigRat
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1v3 anyone can spend the time practicing maneuvers at 10k in the DA . :D
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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
Then 1v 3 is a good crack. :D
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A skilled 1 on 1 dueler already knows how to survive in the MA, but a skilled MA player does not really need to know how to 1 on 1.
It's a matter of progression 99.9% of the time, learning in order:
Two week dweebishness-->MA skills-->Dueling skills.
You will rarely find a good dueler who sucks in the MA, but you will often find a skilled MA player who does suck in dueling 1 on 1.
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A skilled 1 on 1 dueler already knows how to survive in the MA,
Nah. I know some guys who are ACM geniuses but have the SA of Stevie Wonder
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Maybe so, but I would argue that they probably just don't care if they get killed. If you want to survive in the Ma the forumla is very simple. Stay higher and faster than all the enemy in the area. There is no one who does not understand this concept. Putting yourself in a bad situation intentionaly does not always equate poor SA, it most likely is a blatant disregard for survival. Even so, you are right, i think there must be some exceptions to my theory there.
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I think a little of both. A 1v1 will show who among the two has more skills. Getting more kills could mean 1 of two things: 1 being they got a bunch of easy kills (picking, vulches, proxies, afkers, etc etc), or 2 being that they took on a larger force and survived.
There are some guys out there who can take on 10 to 1 odds and survive, which obviously takes more skills than just a 1 on 1. I remember seeing a video of someone taking on about 14 Spitfires in a 109 all alone, and the Spits had the alt advantage. The 109 pilot had superior skills and killed every one of them! :O
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I remember seeing a video of someone taking on about 14 Spitfires in a 109 all alone, and the Spits had the alt advantage. The 109 pilot had superior skills and killed every one of them! :O
That's just the superiority of German iron making itself known ;)
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Both take skills. I can hold my own or the most part in a 1v1 but can't do nearly the same flying the furball.
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A skilled 1 on 1 dueler already knows how to survive in the MA,
The hell I do. The only thing I can figure out that is as secure as I like is cutting bandits from the herd to the point that there is no chance of interference, or booming and zooming.
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It depends on where and then. For me, in the 16+ years that I have been play online Flight Sims, the players I always looked up to, was the ones who did it in the Scenarios or FSO's. The guys who can fly and fight well in the Scenarios and the who step up to do planning and be the leaders....
Those are the true skill players in any flight Sim.
Anything that happens in MA is all B.S. anyway.
CAVALRY
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The hell I do. The only thing I can figure out that is as secure as I like is cutting bandits from the herd to the point that there is no chance of interference, or booming and zooming.
What helped me a lot was when I would drag someone out for a 1v1, I would make an effort to "keep tabs" on someone else near me, even if it was another friendly, while I fought my opponent.
Also, get a little "risky" when you cut one out. Try to increase the likelihood of "interference" by not dragging him out quite so far. Or reverse into the fight while another red guy is still barely in icon range. Learn to watch the second bad guy while you fight the first guy, and learn to kill quickly, before the second guy can get there.
Try to increase your SA in "baby steps". You can't really make these opportunities arise, but watch for them and take advantage of them when you see them. Accept that you'll die a little more for a while, in return for developing a skill.
Make a huge effort to not let the guy you're fighting keep you from being aware of what else is going on around you. Make sure you quickly scan behind and around you a few times in a fight, even when you don't need to. Maybe just once or twice at first. Then add a scan or two, and quickly you're beginning to really get somewhere. Do it in a 1 v 1, even though it's a "waste", because you'll learn to do it, and to still keep track of your opponent, or reacquire him after you take you eyes off of him. Do it when you can at first, so that it becomes easier to do it when you need to. It gets easier, and it gets easier to grab more information from a casual glance. It also becomes a habit, and quickly you'll find you're watching around you while fighting, and you don't even realize it. I laugh at myself, because I can't stop scanning while in a fight, even while I'm working 1 on 1 with a student in the TA. There's no way I'm going to get "jumped", but the habit is so strong I'm watching for the bad guys anyway.
Is that guy you're fighting not a terrible challenge? Maybe he's new/inexperienced? Use that opportunity to scan! Nobody else to watch/keep track of? Then pick an object (a barn? a cove?), and try to remain aware of it's relation to you as you maneuver.
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Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
Come watch me fly. I can prove this wrong in a few seconds....
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The hell I do. The only thing I can figure out that is as secure as I like is cutting bandits from the herd to the point that there is no chance of interference, or booming and zooming.
That is Ma skills. Survival in the MA equals one simple skill, staying out of trouble. There are a few others required to gain some kills, such as gunnery and attack technique. Defence is not a factor in the MA because if you want to survive you don't get in a situation where you can be shot at. It's that simple. :salute
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Apparently I'm doing something wrong!
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As long as you are having fun, who cares.
I prefer turning and burning...literally...in a cartoon sense anyway...on the deck in my P38G. If I land at all, it's generally shot to pieces and if I can manage 1 or 2 kills at the same time, I figure it's icing on the cake.
That's how I have fun. I'm guessing if I flew a different bird with better performance, and flew it differently then I do the 38G, I could probably land more kills, more often. I'd be bored to death though.
It just doesn't matter to me anymore. I remember back in my early Airwarrior days when it did matter. It was the least fun I ever had playing the game. I was working way too hard at what was supposed to be fun.
I think I can give most guys a good fight 1 v 1 in my 38G, even if they are in a better bird. Since I don't really die, and my supply of 38Gs is unlimited, it's all good even if I lose. I like that challenge.
But again, it's how I have fun. How you have fun is up to you.
As to survival skills in the MA. I have never, ever once died.
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If you are looking for ways to analyze and improve you skills, nothing is more effective than a same plane & load out, 1v1 dual (especially if you ask one of the good pilots).
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Usually, if you are good 1v1 then the kills will follow. The question is kind of like saying "What killed the man? The bullet or the wound?"
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That is Ma skills. Survival in the MA equals one simple skill, staying out of trouble. There are a few others required to gain some kills, such as gunnery and attack technique. Defence is not a factor in the MA because if you want to survive you don't get in a situation where you can be shot at. It's that simple. :salute
I agree. In the MA its all about not letting someone get on your six, the kills come easy after that. When you do find a 1V1 in the MA it seems hard to keep it that way for long, so get him quick. About which is harder???.... only about 20% of the pilots you will run into in the MA are of a true great amount of skill, so I would say fighting the other 80% in a hoard the rest of the time is harder.
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Where does dieing alot come in..... cause that is where I'd be.
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I don't really get killed by bandits I'm unaware of in this scenario so much as get killed by bandits I can't do anything about because I'm already low E and "riding the edge" working for a shot in the fight with bandit A.
The special challenge of the MA is that in most planes almost any bandit crowd will generally fighters that are superior to yours in maneuverability and superior to yours in speed.
What helped me a lot was when I would drag someone out for a 1v1, I would make an effort to "keep tabs" on someone else near me, even if it was another friendly, while I fought my opponent.
Also, get a little "risky" when you cut one out. Try to increase the likelihood of "interference" by not dragging him out quite so far. Or reverse into the fight while another red guy is still barely in icon range. Learn to watch the second bad guy while you fight the first guy, and learn to kill quickly, before the second guy can get there.
Try to increase your SA in "baby steps". You can't really make these opportunities arise, but watch for them and take advantage of them when you see them. Accept that you'll die a little more for a while, in return for developing a skill.
Make a huge effort to not let the guy you're fighting keep you from being aware of what else is going on around you. Make sure you quickly scan behind and around you a few times in a fight, even when you don't need to. Maybe just once or twice at first. Then add a scan or two, and quickly you're beginning to really get somewhere. Do it in a 1 v 1, even though it's a "waste", because you'll learn to do it, and to still keep track of your opponent, or reacquire him after you take you eyes off of him. Do it when you can at first, so that it becomes easier to do it when you need to. It gets easier, and it gets easier to grab more information from a casual glance. It also becomes a habit, and quickly you'll find you're watching around you while fighting, and you don't even realize it. I laugh at myself, because I can't stop scanning while in a fight, even while I'm working 1 on 1 with a student in the TA. There's no way I'm going to get "jumped", but the habit is so strong I'm watching for the bad guys anyway.
Is that guy you're fighting not a terrible challenge? Maybe he's new/inexperienced? Use that opportunity to scan! Nobody else to watch/keep track of? Then pick an object (a barn? a cove?), and try to remain aware of it's relation to you as you maneuver.
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Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
This completely overestimates SA, ACM knowledge and shooting skill of the "average" cartoon pilot.
The overwhelming majority of AH player can't do that at all.
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This completely overestimates SA, ACM knowledge and shooting skill of the "average" cartoon pilot.
The overwhelming majority of AH player can't do that at all.
I agree about the "anyone can land 3-5 kills". I am not all great with my ACM yet i still land kills.
This is a funny topic, i just read about something about allies and axis not knowing how good they really are. All the training in dogfight could not tell if they are skilled pilots because they could not used live round. However, once they are put into combat action, even then, there is question on how well trained the enemy was the time you killed him or he kills you. by 1944, U.S. and Brits pilot had over 400 hours of training before then get into action, Germany declined their hours do to shortage and only got 130-150 hours. There was never a even match with the amount of training.
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I agree about the "anyone can land 3-5 kills". I am not all great with my ACM yet i still land kills.
Again, overestimation of the average player. You may not feel like it, but even you are above average. ;)
And "landing kills" is not the same as landing 3-5 every time you want to. It may occasionally happen... but for most players, landing 3-5 isn't a deliberate choice they made. It's pure luck.
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Again, overestimation of the average player. You may not feel like it, but even you are average. ;)
And "landing kills" is not the same as landing 3-5 every time you want to. It may occasionally happen... but for most players, landing 3-5 isn't a deliberate choice they made. It's pure luck.
There is no such thing as luck and you are either prepared for the situation or you are not. You either have the opportunity to make three kills or you do not. If luck were a potion it would be an empty vial.
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That really is a good point snail.
I guess you are right.
I might have lost sight on how difficult this game is for the first 1-3 years.
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There is no such thing as luck and you are either prepared for the situation or you are not.
Of course there is luck. A pilot can be completely indifferent to the threats around him furballing away while enemies take unsuccessful passes at him or attack his allies. He then finishes his tasks, bingo and proud, and rtbs a few kills unscathed. Did he do a good job? Yes, but he was lucky that somebody didn't pick him or choose him to saddle.
Gosh Chalenge, I think you try your hardest to give me sig material. I'll stick with the 30k fuel saving for now though.
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I might have lost sight on how difficult this game is for the first 1-3 years.
That's happening easily. We all tend to judge "good" "bad" "average" from our own particular standing. Better pilots tend to say "he sucks" to everyone that is showing considerable less skill then they have. For instance, I am wondering quite often why so few people take the Hurri D for tankbusting and why that plane has less than 0.5 K/D vs tanks. Then I have to remind myself that for the ordinary AH player it's actually quite a feat not to auger while attacking tanks, while for myself anything less than 5:1 is a bad result...
Example for 2 different point of views:
Let's assume there are about 500 cartoon pilots that would beat me most of the time in a classic 1v1 duel. Sounds horrible, indicates a major lack in skill on my part.
Well, at the same time that means that less than 10% of all AH players are able to beat me that way - which suddenly seems to make me a great pilot ;)
BTW: Less than 20% of all players get 1 kll per sortie or better...
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1v1 in the DA and 1v1 in the MA are completely different, which is why I like 1v1s in the MA. I like to hav different amounts of E at the start of the fight, I like not knowing who I am flying against(I fly better for the most part there) , I like the different plane match ups. Say Im in a KI61 and see a 109...I have to think first(this dude is a MAN for flying a 109 :D ) then I got to think what model is he flying? If he is flying a K4 he can out climb the crap out of me, if he is in a F4 hes gunna be able to turnfight really easily. This just adds more of a challenge and excitement to the fight which 1v1s in the DA dont offer, but dont get me wrong I stil have great fights in the DA.
An example of a good MA stick but lame DA stick............Hoagi :devil
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I have a debatable question. What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills.
Personally, I'm not trying to be by est but i think the one vs one proves more.
Only because it requires allot of physical and mental skill. However, getting, particularly
landing kills requires SA and mental skills.
I'm not asking for facts but simply opinions.So feel free to state yours, I will
not argue.
1 v 1.
you can rack up kills all day long, and never actually participate in a single fight.
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Yet another idealized hypothetical that has no real correspondence in actual online combat.
Some noobs are tough to bring down 1-vs-1 if you put them in the right aircraft, but could never land "3-5 kills." In some aircraft and circumstances a pilot might have little success 1vs1, but be able to land lots of kills.
After flying FSO last night, I value a good cherry-picker for a team-mate over a 1vs1 hot shot, without hesitation. The evolution of the fighter in WWII favored aircraft that sacrificed 1-vs-1 dueling ability in favor of speed, roll-rate, and fire power.
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Very few 1 on 1 fights in the MAs now. Far fewer then there used to be. TT has become one of the better spots to find one, but even there? And another thing. I dont know if theres a way to check but I often fly entire nights without seeing much enemy "not" in a high speed P-51, 190, Typhie, Spit-16, Tempy, K-4s, P-47M....ect Unless its a CV fight that is. There are a lot of high eny aircraft I want to fly but how often are you going to up a Brewster when nothing around you is going under 400 mph?
Sure you can dodge most of the pick and runners. But eventually you'll get bored with it and I end up right back where I started. Killing tanks!
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Very few 1 on 1 fights in the MAs now. Far fewer then there used to be. TT has become one of the better spots to find one, but even there? And another thing. I dont know if theres a way to check but I often fly entire nights without seeing much enemy "not" in a high speed P-51, 190, Typhie, Spit-16, Tempy, K-4s, P-47M....ect Unless its a CV fight that is. There are a lot of high eny aircraft I want to fly but how often are you going to up a Brewster when nothing around you is going under 400 mph?
Sure you can dodge most of the pick and runners. But eventually you'll get bored with it and I end up right back where I started. Killing tanks!
mw last night. sole defender of a vbase with a big bardar incoming. i was at about 16k as that's where the badguys were last time. i see a dot about 7k higher....so i climb to 20k. head back, still the dot's above me. head away, climb to 26k. find a corsair about 2k below me, haulin arse for the merge.
i merge with him, and on a quick scan, sure enough, there comes another corsair from slightly above me.
so basically almost 30k for a vbase. i believe the rest were lower, but i never saw em.
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it is a good question.
I think the main difference is, in a duel all external SA factors are removed and the focus is on flying ability + equal energy states.
Everything being equal could be seen as easy / fair or more difficult depending on the pilots view.
The answer IMO is that the two require different skill sets therefore cannot be compared as one more difficult than the other.
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I tend to try and bring out the fight in people, as much as I can when it comes to 1v1's or even furballs. The simple way is to call them out on 200, and try and get them mad enough at you to fight you :) If they don't it just means that they are one of those weenies.
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I was in MW last night and had 10 scalps. Some were 2 on my 1 and some were 1 vs 1. Most all were low except 1 fight with a pony. That one was up around 7k. I was on my way past our GV base to take the fight to them. Flying blissfully into the blinding rays of the sun. Then to desktop..... aces high has stopped working .... close or report. :lol
I think either way is an improvement on how some in AH fly. Just make sure that win or lose, the guy or guys you fought know they had a fight.
The fight is the game! Any fight where your actually in the fight can improve your cartoon peelot skillset
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I usually have decent numbers, and often land kills, but if I have to go straight up against any number of guys who have posted in this thread, I'd get my arse handed to me every time
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If even I can hold a 4:1 K/D ratio in the MA on occasion there can't be much skill to it. 1v1 is where you learn what you're made of.
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For some of us 1v1 can also become very mechanical, repetitive and frankly, boring. Furballing is not the only acceptable religion, like the dedicated furballers often tend to claim ;) Surely it hones the skill set required for 1v1, but some other skills are also required in 1 v many and many vs many fights. Some of those dueling skills or moves would put one at MA into a position of certain death. A truly dedicated furballer who holds himself next to God, may sometimes get that one kill, or two, and then die... and then go on whining about how others play wrong.
There are different kind of skills and different kinds of fun that different people value. Tolerance seems to be one of the most difficult skills in this game.
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1 v 1.
you can rack up kills all day long, and never actually participate in a single fight.
This one got me thinking....
In air combat, to kill without putting yourself in prolonged fights, isn't that a skill unto its self?
If I was a real fighter pilot... I don't want tobe that guy who alway finds himself in 1 on 1 fights alone. I want a "WINGMAN". :airplane:
Cavalry
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This one got me thinking....
In air combat, to kill without putting yourself in prolonged fights, isn't that a skill unto its self?
If I was a real fighter pilot... I don't want tobe that guy who alway finds himself in 1 on 1 fights alone. I want a "WINGMAN". :airplane:
Cavalry
They could fly MSFS and not lose a plane.... unless they crash.
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Again, overestimation of the average player. You may not feel like it, but even you are above average. ;)
And "landing kills" is not the same as landing 3-5 every time you want to. It may occasionally happen... but for most players, landing 3-5 isn't a deliberate choice they made. It's pure luck.
not sure about being above average for me. At time, and more than i dare to say, i get killed by a new player.
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not sure about being above average for me. At time, and more than i dare to say, i get killed by a new player.
I fear the zipcodes
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I became completely and totally bored with furballing around year 4. With dueling I learned that there would always be someone better than me so I stopped bothering with trying to be aceshigh TOPGUN around year 5. I was somewhat lost and bothered by the whole smack talk bravado crap that had become so necessary, so prevalent in AH during the last few years...... taking breaks became more important and the breaks were coming quicker and lasting longer. Finally splitting that one giant cluster **** of an arena up into early, mid, and late war, stages saved the game for me.
So where do I find myself? Enjoying the hunt. To hunt other players and kill them is what turns my crank, and yes....that includes landing the kills. Thats where I bring home the bacon.
I love hunting and killing you people <S> and do damned near all of my hunting/killing in the slower paced and far more enjoyable/cordial atmosphere of Mid War.
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Of course there is luck. A pilot can be completely indifferent to the threats around him furballing away while enemies take unsuccessful passes at him or attack his allies. He then finishes his tasks, bingo and proud, and rtbs a few kills unscathed. Did he do a good job? Yes, but he was lucky that somebody didn't pick him or choose him to saddle.
Gosh Chalenge, I think you try your hardest to give me sig material. I'll stick with the 30k fuel saving for now though.
Well grissle is a great way to diet also there buckwheat but since you like your cons low for the picking and you prefer them clueless about ACM I can understand why you have never developed the knowledge of even how to fly at 30k let alone discovered that luck is an excuse for the unprepared. Great ankle biting there too. :aok
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1v1 is something you do to practice for the MA but it is not the complete skill set required for MA flying. 1v1 is NOT enough skill to survive in the MA and it WILL NOT lead to high k/d without other skills (I prefer the word techniques).
This 'chatter' about skills and 1v1s and 'noobs' and all the smack-talk is there to manipulate people into flying stupid and getting themselves killed repeatedly in 'furballs' that do not resemble any engagement ever fought in WWII.
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Little of what happens in the MA resembles what happened historically. Even in a scenario type environment, you're lucky if you can experience 1% of what the real pilots did. This is a game, nothing more, nothing less.
This 'chatter' about skills and 1v1s and 'noobs' and all the smack-talk is there to manipulate people into flying stupid and getting themselves killed repeatedly
Frankly, if flying stupid means flying under 30k and in a non perk ride/ride above 5 ENY (check your stats sometime), I'll fly stupid every time. It is a lot more entertaining to get into a fight one shouldn't survive than to have to watch an in-flight movie just to get operational altitude. This is a game, loosen up and enjoy it.
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I fear the zipcodes
Me too, Shiffler, Me too.
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Shiffler
Now that was funny.
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Now that was funny.
He may be trying to emulate HT :D
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and you prefer them clueless about ACM
Like you? There's no need to know any ACM when you have the patience to fly to 30k every mission and kill bombers and AFK pilots. It's no mystery why you fly P47Ms, P51Ds, and Tempests. You like the planes that have the greatest advantage at 28k, the ability to run when you realize your enemy is going to put up a fight. One of these days I'm going to find ya up in the strato and film you as you try to fight your way out of the wet paper bag that I put you in. Maybe tonight perhaps, that is if you aren't spawn camping in a tiger all night. :aok
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Some sorties I fly lame so I can get my 'real lyf3!1' giddys and land a kill streak, most of the time I fly the game like... a game, where I never die. I find it hard to fly 'real lyf3' though, whenever I see a green guy down there with 4 on him it's just impossible to stop from diving in to help. Unless it's Del, he can just go die.
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had a guy in mw last night. i was flying around, went over his base....he rolled, as i was approaching. i was gonna engage, but he kept circling in his ack.
no problem, i head west, to give him time to climb, and get speed. near the edge of his dar ring, i turned left staying right inside it.
then i read on open text "c'mon dumb p-38, turn around!" so i looked, and he was about co-alt, so i turned, dove under him, came up over the top, rolled as i did, and tore his wing off.
i think my reply was "ask and ye shall receive"
now bear in mind.....i suck.........but this dude obviously sucked more. :devil
i would've offered him some advice, 'cept for 2 things......he was a wise bellybutton right off the bat......and he logged as soon as his wreckage hit the cartoon ground.
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Frankly, if flying stupid means flying under 30k and in a non perk ride/ride above 5 ENY (check your stats sometime), I'll fly stupid every time.
Chalenge's favorite ride, the P-51, needs to be a a 5 eny ride like a Prius needs to be in NASCAR.
YOUR favorite ride, the P-38, has the Pony beat in every single respect *except* top speed....
Sorry, but "going there" about ride choice using ENY number is just misleading sometimes...
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Little of what happens in the MA resembles what happened historically. Even in a scenario type environment, you're lucky if you can experience 1% of what the real pilots did. This is a game, nothing more, nothing less.
Frankly, if flying stupid means flying under 30k and in a non perk ride/ride above 5 ENY (check your stats sometime), I'll fly stupid every time. It is a lot more entertaining to get into a fight one shouldn't survive than to have to watch an in-flight movie just to get operational altitude. This is a game, loosen up and enjoy it.
The fact that you even checked my stats proves your jealous. :D Thanks.
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Like you? There's no need to know any ACM when you have the patience to fly to 30k every mission and kill bombers and AFK pilots. It's no mystery why you fly P47Ms, P51Ds, and Tempests. You like the planes that have the greatest advantage at 28k, the ability to run when you realize your enemy is going to put up a fight. One of these days I'm going to find ya up in the strato and film you as you try to fight your way out of the wet paper bag that I put you in. Maybe tonight perhaps, that is if you aren't spawn camping in a tiger all night. :aok
Your showing your absolute genius again their noob!
Yes I have found the bombers at 30k that I enjoy attacking are great furballers. :rolleyes: Im sure one of the trainers is working overtime showing them all the nose on tactics. :D
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Chalenge's favorite ride, the P-51, needs to be a a 5 eny ride like a Prius needs to be in NASCAR.
YOUR favorite ride, the P-38, has the Pony beat in every single respect *except* top speed....
Sorry, but "going there" about ride choice using ENY number is just misleading sometimes...
Yes but the way Chalenge flies, in straight line vectors at 400mph +..., the only important aspect of his plane choices IS top speed.
BnZ, when you discuss Eny and plane performances, you never put enough emphasis on top cruise speeds which is the most important performance aspect in staying alive in the main arena for the masses in the majority of sticky situations. The next two most important performance aspects are Ammo Quantity and Ammo Lethality. Those top 3 are what is going to keep a pilot alive the longest and racking up the most kills, simple as that. After those 3, I would say Turning Ability which you seem to think is the most important. How else do you think Chalenge is able to be so successful? He really has no skills to work with other than pure timidness and planes that suit this style to perfection.
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Yes but the way Chalenge flies, in straight line vectors at 400mph +..., the only important aspect of his plane choices IS top speed.
BnZ, when you discuss Eny and plane performances, you never put enough emphasis on top cruise speeds which is the most important performance aspect in staying alive in the main arena for the masses in the majority of sticky situations. The next two most important performance aspects are Ammo Quantity and Ammo Lethality. Those top 3 are what is going to keep a pilot alive the longest and racking up the most kills, simple as that. After those 3, I would say Turning Ability which you seem to think is the most important. How else do you think Chalenge is able to be so successful? He really has no skills to work with other than pure timidness and planes that suit this style to perfection.
The most important qualities for an airplane are top speed, maneuverability, and thrust/weight. Which one is most important depends on what you are doing at the time. Firepower and ammo load comes somewhere under that. Top speed never won a single dogfight btw, although it may have put you in position to have the dogfight.
Speed would be inarguably the most important *only* if score were based on k/d alone, with no k/s or k/t component.
As for Chalenge's personal "style"...haven't a clue.
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I think...Kills has nothing to do with skill.....yes...as you gain experience you are able to get a flashy sign in the text buffer saying so....however as has been said...many can perch and swoop and never get close to danger...skill to me is being able to fight and stay clear of gun solution for ..... however long...this could be 1v1 in the MA or DA or multi con engagements or even a ganging.....either way it is when you finish the fight win or lose...have you learned something?, do you feel amped or sit back thinking, I want to do that again?? Just last night I was in a fight with a Pony B, I was a spit 5....we had a good little scrap on the outskirts of the main fight....It went back and forth for a few minutes till I managed a shot which took half a wing off...I started chasing him down knowing full well that there was no chance of him getting away of fighting back...but when I got to 400 out I decided to turn about and let him land...the fight was over and sure I could have run him down and finished him off beating my chest all the way to get my name in lights but there was no longer a decent fight so no skill was needed...as it was I sent a <S> for a good fight and received one back...
wow what a blah blah blah... ultimately...name in lights...1v1.....neither of these are an out and out proof of skill.... what you can't do today you may do tomorrow...improving on your game is what proves skill..... moving from the ho all in sight....to surviving for a time in a 1v1, to enjoying multi con engagements.....you will learn till the day you die..........And then there's getting proficient at the smack talk....you think the fighting in AH has a steep learning curve....the smack/bravado talk is even steeper :lol :lol :lol
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The most important qualities for an airplane are top speed, maneuverability, and thrust/weight. Which one is most important depends on what you are doing at the time. Firepower and ammo load comes somewhere under that. Top speed never won a single dogfight btw, although it may have put you in position to have the dogfight.
Speed would be inarguably the most important *only* if score were based on k/d alone, with no k/s or k/t component.
As for Chalenge's personal "style"...haven't a clue.
Grizz has no clue either... on any subject as far as I can tell. :rolleyes:
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Well, I've been flying for more than a year and even after all the training I've received I lose almost every 1v1 I get into and I usually go through three cartoon pilots before I knock one out of the sky in the main. ;)
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The fact that you even checked my stats proves your jealous. :D Thanks.
We post some folks stats in SAPP.... we find them good for a laugh. You were just one he posted.
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Top speed never won a single dogfight btw, although it may have put you in position to have the dogfight.
Top speed, in any kind of 'realistic' scenario, is probably the single most significant factor in combat aircraft.
The P51 is the best aircraft for BnZ work, period, because it has great loiter time, great top speed, great high speed maneuverability, awesome visibility, and a good gun package for high speed work. I can't imagine what else you'd want.
Unless I'm misunderstanding why throughout the history of combat aviation aircraft have sacrificed maneuverability for speed at every opportunity. (in a very general sense of course :rolleyes: )
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$p33|) |<!llz
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We post some folks stats in SAPP.... we find them good for a laugh. You were just one he posted.
I see... for the record approximately 13 of my sorties were unproductive for one reason or another. While I do enjoy a good 30k attack on bombers they do tend to die or bail or in four cases pull the plug on the internet. I did learn you get A kill on bombers when they do that (if you are close enough) and you get to see who the noob is but aside from that... tough.
Thanks for the laugh though Shuffler (looking up SAPP I mean). :D
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He may be trying to emulate HT :D
Crap, sorry about that shuffler. :uhoh
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Well, I've been flying for more than a year and even after all the training I've received I lose almost every 1v1 I get into and I usually go through three cartoon pilots before I knock one out of the sky in the main. ;)
Heck, i been flying for 5 years and still below average. However, have improve here and there by picking up a few ACM.
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Grizz you still havent shoot my I-16 down in ur 262 yet xD
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Chalenge is filling the weak minded with horrible ideas...... :rolleyes:
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Chalenge is filling the weak minded with horrible ideas...... :rolleyes:
You should be an absolute expert on what its like to be weak minded! :aok :lol
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You should be an absolute expert on what its like to be weak minded! :aok :lol
And your probably an expert on saving fuel, run for President :aok
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I am a lot more aware of the laws of physics than you or grissle its true but that hasnt been a trait any of our Presidents of the last 100 years possessed either. Maybe you should run! :aok :neener:
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I am a lot more aware of the laws of physics than you or grissle its true but that hasnt been a trait any of our Presidents of the last 100 years possessed either. Maybe you should run! :aok :neener:
Nah I cant stand politicians especially in person, seems like they are always reading off a telepromter, but as for the laws of physics you are talking about ;) , they dont matter in 99% of the fights in the LW arenas
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Nah I cant stand politicians especially in person, seems like they are always reading off a telepromter, but as for the laws of physics, they dont matter in 99% of the fights in the LW arenas
Oh I think Hitech might want to know about that! :huh
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I remember seeing a video of someone taking on about 14 Spitfires in a 109 all alone, and the Spits had the alt advantage. The 109 pilot had superior skills and killed every one of them! :O
Pretty sure it was a video I posted a while ago. There were about 14 spitfires but I only killed 8. The others chickened out :devil
To the topic, 1v1 or 1vX.
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The most important qualities for an airplane are top speed, maneuverability, and thrust/weight. Which one is most important depends on what you are doing at the time. Firepower and ammo load comes somewhere under that. Top speed never won a single dogfight btw, although it may have put you in position to have the dogfight.
Speed would be inarguably the most important *only* if score were based on k/d alone, with no k/s or k/t component.
As for Chalenge's personal "style"...haven't a clue.
The most efficient way to get a lot of kills in the MA is staying fast and being lethal on each gun solution you acquire. Speed and Firepower are most important for MA efficiency. Ammo load is next so you can rack up 5+ kills/sortie. Then somewhere after that is turnability and climb. BnZ, you really overestimate the way timid pilots like Chalenge fly. He has no incentive to turn his plane, other than setting up the next pass on the bombers he is trying to kill. This is the state of the game. Not many pilots understand 1v1 ACM. When you rarely run into someone who actually puts up a fight and does things right, it's always a recognizable veteran name. Most times I am able to identify a pilot based on his maneuvers and what aircraft he is in. In Chalenge's case, I can identify him by the 5k rook icon Typh above me when I am already too high at 12k or the tempest that took one 500 mph screaming pass at me hoping I was a numbers guy before high tailing it back to the horde or the ack and then patting himself on the back for his experten ACM and SA.
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there is nothing more fun than a good fight 2vs2 or better 4 vs 4 :rock
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Basically its an apple and orange type of comparison, especially since the "fly to furball" crowd and the "fly to live" crowd both tend to take planes with exploitable advantages that they use to the fullest. However there is a small subset of folks who are in the "I fly what I like" crowd who are capable of both extraordinary 1 on 1/furball performances and consistently manage to land impressive sorties in the MA in spite of flying "average" planes in area's of the map where they are at a numerical disadvantage...further you will almost never find these guys at altitudes of over 10,000 ft or so. without placing one of these folks above any other I would put forth Greebo as an example of the type of stick I'm talking about.
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Oopps wrong thread.
1 vs 1 proves more IMO
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In Chalenge's case, I can identify him by the 5k rook icon Typh above me...
I dont know who you are describing... not even close to me. For one thing I always fly Bish... well 99.99% of the time anyway. :D
You really should stop fantasizing. :aok
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1 v 1 all day.
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1 v 1 all day.
\
:aok
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There are different kind of skills and different kinds of fun that different people value. Tolerance seems to be one of the most difficult skills in this game.
Well said.
One skill I admire in the MA is good wingmenship (made that word up.)
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I think the 1 on 1 better "proves" your skill over a given opponent for the most part. Especially because you can control many of the variables that occur in the MA, and rule those out. Of course, everyone has "hot" and "off" days.
I've just never found those 1 on 1 duel-type fights to be very interesting or stimulating. I'm bored in the DA by the time the game loads and I can see who's on the roster. Win or lose, ho-hum, I'm not all that interested...
Multi-kill hops in the MA require a different set of skills, and for me are infinitely more stimulating and interesting, and make me try harder to beat my opponent and land some kills. Having ten kills in my pocket makes me try harder to not die than having 1 or none does. I consider my "life" more "valuable" when I have kills to land. That doesn't make me timid, since I'm also greedy (landing 11-12 is better than 10!) and conceited (LOL, no way will that high spit get me! I'm MtnMan! Come 'ere you dirty varmint! Lemme take your pelt!).
I've always seen duels as "warm-up" for the "real event" (MA), and as such I don't care much about victory/defeat in the DA. But, again, even though I don't find duels exciting, I do think they "prove" skill over a select opponent in a way you can't often replicate in the MA.
I need the constantly varying engagements of the MA to keep me interested. Is my next fight going to be "fair", advantaged, disadvantaged, against a slower or faster plane, better turner, worse turner 1 v 1, or 1 v many? Who knows! Just wondering makes me want to log on!
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The made that sacrifice in R/L because above all, in R/L THE PILOT DOES NOT WISH TO DIE!!! EVER!!!! A real pilot would not be satisfied with a k/d of 100-1. His K/D *must* be something-0.
But in a *game* where you are scored not just on kills/death, but also on kills/sortie, kills/time, and hit%, alot different considerations for what makes a "great" plane apply. And that is not even considering "fun" factor.
I'm not saying the P-51 is a bad MA plane, but...I've flown the P-51, I've flown the competition, and I can see nothing about it that makes the Mustang clearly superior to the competition. The D9 is faster, climbs better, accelerates better, rolls better, has lots of cannon...it is in fact clearly the better high k/d pick machine. The K4 is faster than the Pony, faster than anything 5-25K in fact, climbs like a raped ape, and is maneuverable enough to whomp most other planes in a knock-down drag out. The Typh has ungodly Hispano firepower and is actually faster than the Pony down low. And lets not even get into what the P-47M brings to the table vs. the P-51...
Furthermore, as for "speed uber alles"...I've flown the 262 abit. Frankly, I don't find it much fun. It is difficult to attack fighters and attacking bombers tends to get it damaged. I suppose the average player could fly it very "safely" and rack up a monstrous k/d but I suspect one's k/t would get way low and one's eyes might fall out from boredom.
Top speed, in any kind of 'realistic' scenario, is probably the single most significant factor in combat aircraft.
The P51 is the best aircraft for BnZ work, period, because it has great loiter time, great top speed, great high speed maneuverability, awesome visibility, and a good gun package for high speed work. I can't imagine what else you'd want.
Unless I'm misunderstanding why throughout the history of combat aviation aircraft have sacrificed maneuverability for speed at every opportunity. (in a very general sense of course :rolleyes: )
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1 on 1
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I'm not saying the P-51 is a bad MA plane, but...I've flown the P-51, I've flown the competition, and I can see nothing about it that makes the Mustang clearly superior to the competition. The D9 is faster, climbs better, accelerates better, rolls better, has lots of cannon...it is in fact clearly the better high k/d pick machine.
Visibility is worse, ballistics much more difficult to consistently connect with. It should probably be Eny 10 though.
The K4 is faster than the Pony, faster than anything 5-25K in fact, climbs like a raped ape, and is maneuverable enough to whomp most other planes in a knock-down drag out.
Visibility is poor, turnability is average, ballistics are extremely difficult. I'm also pretty sure the Typh, La7, D9 are all faster. The P51D and K4 are too close to call on deck cruise speeds.
The Typh has ungodly Hispano firepower and is actually faster than the Pony down low.
I agree, Typh should be Eny 5.
And lets not even get into what the P-47M brings to the table vs. the P-51...
Ok.
Furthermore, as for "speed uber alles"...I've flown the 262 abit. Frankly, I don't find it much fun. It is difficult to attack fighters and attacking bombers tends to get it damaged.
I'll show you some 262 films that will melt your face.
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Visibility is worse, ballistics much more difficult to consistently connect with. It should probably be Eny 10 though.
D9 has a higher k/d than the Pony consistently tour to tour. In fact, practically every fast plane and some mediocre and slow planes have a higher k/d. Also, I forgot to mention the Ta-152 relative the Pony. In my experience, there isn't too much to choose between the two.
Visibility is poor, turnability is average, ballistics are extremely difficult. I'm also pretty sure the Typh, La7, D9 are all faster. The P51D and K4 are too close to call on deck cruise speeds.
I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.
I agree, Typh should be Eny 5.
:huh Now I know you're pulling my chain.
I'll show you some 262 films that will melt your face.
I've seen your films, you've spent the time to learn to toss taters at ungodly speed differentials and deflections, the same gun most people have to set on someone's butt at D-0 to hit with. You're a living gunnery computer, hooray you. I'm also sure you and certainly 90% of the rest of the players could rack up big scores easier in a Tempest.
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I think the 1 on 1 better "proves" your skill over a given opponent for the most part. Especially because you can control many of the variables that occur in the MA, and rule those out. Of course, everyone has "hot" and "off" days.
I've just never found those 1 on 1 duel-type fights to be very interesting or stimulating. I'm bored in the DA by the time the game loads and I can see who's on the roster. Win or lose, ho-hum, I'm not all that interested...
Multi-kill hops in the MA require a different set of skills, and for me are infinitely more stimulating and interesting, and make me try harder to beat my opponent and land some kills. Having ten kills in my pocket makes me try harder to not die than having 1 or none does. I consider my "life" more "valuable" when I have kills to land. That doesn't make me timid, since I'm also greedy (landing 11-12 is better than 10!) and conceited (LOL, no way will that high spit get me! I'm MtnMan! Come 'ere you dirty varmint! Lemme take your pelt!).
I've always seen duels as "warm-up" for the "real event" (MA), and as such I don't care much about victory/defeat in the DA. But, again, even though I don't find duels exciting, I do think they "prove" skill over a select opponent in a way you can't often replicate in the MA.
I need the constantly varying engagements of the MA to keep me interested. Is my next fight going to be "fair", advantaged, disadvantaged, against a slower or faster plane, better turner, worse turner 1 v 1, or 1 v many? Who knows! Just wondering makes me want to log on!
This is why I hate when people who say 1v1s are for the DA, personally I have had better 1v1s in the MA then I ever have in the DA because of the bold statement...just not knowing if someone may be hiding E from you at the merge and stuff like that make it all the better, this is also why Ill call off planes coming in on my 1v1 fights in the MA and always ask someone if they are ok with someone.(it isnt hard to do, just ask) :salute
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Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.
Now I dont know why HTC decided that the P-51D should be ENY 5. It doesnt make sense to me. If its based on speed alone then the K4 should be ENY 3 or lower and we all know its not based on ability to run (seems to be what grizz is claiming). I think that HTC bases ENY solely on arena performance and since every noob in the world flies the P-51 and spits before anything else and because it is a workhorse that does field leveling and every other task a fighter-attack plane can do and deliver the goods and still make it home... we get stuck with ENY.
Now what grizz does to get kills I would never care. I see he flies german iron and I dont feel I need that 'advantage' if you will but maybe he is fulfilling a role fantasy of some sort.
I prefer attacking those large formations of heavy bombers with all the guns firing at me. Try that a few times and get those kills and land without taking any hits whatsoever... thats the best! The bomber pilots you meet vary in skill level and the noobs or bomb-and-bailers stay low but the experienced guys go higher and they know how to avoid an experienced attackers approach. Patience is not only important its paramount and if you ever saddle up on the six position your a dweeb plain and simple. To me watching a bomber go from calm and collected to panic stricken and evasive when they realize they cannot even hit the attacker is great stuff! :aok
And if you ever run into high escort know this... its probably someone that knows what he is doing because the noobs stay low where there is safety in numbers.
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I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.
It's actually the fastest prop plane 8-25K.
Very low (<5k) it's not at the top, but still only 8-10mph behind the top speed demons down there. The Typhoon is faster only on the deck, and that speed advantage is very small, so small it's getting close to be just theoretical in most situations.
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Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.
LOL I have never heard of this "clear plactic overlay", I may have to try this one :rolleyes:
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LOL I have never heard of this "clear plactic overlay", I may have to try this one :rolleyes:
I just bet you will. :rolleyes:
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I just bet you will. :rolleyes:
:rofl you keep saving your fuel :aok :salute
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:rofl you keep saving your fuel :aok :salute
...and you keep practicing and one of these days you may actually learn how to fight! :aok :devil
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...and you keep practicing and one of these days you may actually learn how to fight! :aok :devil
low Chalenge, maybe Ill have to show you how we fly under 10k and you can teach me 30k flying :aok
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D9 has a higher k/d than the Pony consistently tour to tour. In fact, practically every fast plane and some mediocre and slow planes have a higher k/d. Also, I forgot to mention the Ta-152 relative the Pony. In my experience, there isn't too much to choose between the two.
The pony is an attack plane that many people use for suicide porking missions and bombing in general. This will throw off the K/D considerably. You know this but you still choose to use it as evidence to prove your point. Also, the P51D is very user friendly (nice visibility, 50 cals, good feel to it) for newer players to hop into and be successful. The 190D9 can be frustrating with the visibility, touchy with the roll rate, and frustrating german 20mm ballistics. I think the P51D is a more lethal weapon than the 190D9 in the hands of a player in the 50th percentile (In general MA skill). Same goes for the Ta152, give a very average player a 152, he most likely won't be able to hit anything with the unstable gunplatform and the 20mm and 30mm ballistics to go on top of that. Again, the P51D will be more lethal. That's why you don't see many players flying the Ta152, it's because they don't like it. They don't like it because they can't kill in it like they can in their other b&z rides. Most pilots will pick planes that give them the best chance of survival and lethality. Follow the numbers, they will tell you which planes these are for the masses.
I'm pretty sure 5K-25K the K4 IS the fastest non-perker.
I was unaware. That still doesn't help me catch 190D9s and Typhs, they'll just dive to the deck. The 109K4 is obviously a great plane but it really isn't that lethal in the MA for the 50th percentile player. It's too difficult for him to rack up more than 2-3 kills with only 65 taters. The plane simply does not unbalance gameplay at all.
:huh Now I know you're pulling my chain.
Why not? Great visibility, hispanos, incredible deck speeds. What more could a timid straight line vector pilot ask for?
I've seen your films, you've spent the time to learn to toss taters at ungodly speed differentials and deflections, the same gun most people have to set on someone's butt at D-0 to hit with. You're a living gunnery computer, hooray you.
Most of the Muppets have learned how to toss them french fried taters around at ungodly differentials. We strive for PM cheat accusations.
I'm also sure you and certainly 90% of the rest of the players could rack up big scores easier in a Tempest.
My kill potential is much higher in a jet than a tempest. I can also make 5 times as many circus kill shots in a jet, there's really no comparison. As for the rest of the population, I'm sure the tempest is their best bet.
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Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.
:huh :rofl
Now I dont know why HTC decided that the P-51D should be ENY 5. It doesnt make sense to me. If its based on speed alone then the K4 should be ENY 3 or lower and we all know its not based on ability to run (seems to be what grizz is claiming). I think that HTC bases ENY solely on arena performance and since every noob in the world flies the P-51 and spits before anything else and because it is a workhorse that does field leveling and every other task a fighter-attack plane can do and deliver the goods and still make it home... we get stuck with ENY.
I think Eny should be based primarily on 1. Deck cruise speed 2. Ammo Lethality 3. Ammo Quantity. I think these 3 performance aspects will dictate arena performance at the highest accuracy. The Spit16 is the exception.
Now what grizz does to get kills I would never care. I see he flies german iron and I dont feel I need that 'advantage' if you will but maybe he is fulfilling a role fantasy of some sort.
:huh :rofl
109s, Me262s, Me163s, and the Ta152 are probably the toughest planes in the game to dominate in. How often do you see players land big kills in any of the planes listed? Rarely.
How often do you see players land big kills in the planes you fly Chalenge i.e. Tempest, P51D, P47M? Frequently.
I prefer attacking those large formations of heavy bombers with all the guns firing at me. Try that a few times and get those kills and land without taking any hits whatsoever... thats the best!
The easiest planes to kill bombers in are Jugs and Tempests. You can blast them 1000 out before they even have a chance to get guns on you. Try it in the 'easy mode' German planes that you seem to avoid like the plague. Real cartoon men fly Luftwaffe. :rock
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Real cartoon men fly Luftwaffe. :rock
Nobody should disagree here.........especially the 38 and Hog easy mode dweebs :devil
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Im divided on this one, I would say 1v1, simply because it shows that you can hold your own. But I have squadies who can land 15-20 kills WITHOUT picking or HOing or generally being timid. I would say that deserves equal praise.
Who are they? lol
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I have a debatable question. What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills.
Personally, I'm not trying to be by est but i think the one vs one proves more.
Only because it requires allot of physical and mental skill. However, getting, particularly
landing kills requires SA and mental skills.
I'm not asking for facts but simply opinions.So feel free to state yours, I will
not argue.
Skill in what?
1 vs 1 shows skill in fighting
landing kills shows skill in many different things like vulching, avoiding fights, picking, fighting etc
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Grizz: The Spixteen is a 344mph plane that gets upped under vulches by absolute noobs and strafed on the runways all day and night. Yet is has similar k/d to the 365mph P-51 flow in a more "conservative" manner. That has got to tell us something...
:huh :rofl
I think Eny should be based primarily on 1. Deck cruise speed
Does this mean you would leave out WEP? Even though 5 minutes of it is usually ample and 9 minutes is an eternity of WEP for MA purposes? How...convenient.
2. Ammo Lethality 3. Ammo Quantity. I think these 3 performance aspects will dictate arena performance at the highest accuracy. The Spit16 is the exception.
This standard would inevitably shoot the Doras, 152s, K-4s, and Lalas near the top with the Ponies and 47Ms. This would be good in most ways though, would be a heck of a lot more fair to lump all these planes together and I would be in 100% in favor of it if I didn't believe in the importance of maneuver.
If the Spit16 has other qualities good enough to make up for mediocre top speed, it is possible other planes do as well.
109s, Me262s, Me163s, and the Ta152 are probably the toughest planes in the game to dominate in. How often do you see players land big kills in any of the planes listed? Rarely.
163? Are we talking about the same plane here? Because I thought thought the 163 was the one that turns like, I don't know, probably a 109 and has the speed, climb, and acceleration of a rocket. Kurt 4s are great MA planes, and as for the Ta-152, I seriously think one big popularity inhibitor for the Tank is the bad write-up Soda gave it. Look at his articles on the P-51 and 152 respectively. I don't think he gives a quite fair picture of either, but his page is what everybody reads for advice on the planes coming into the game.
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I see... for the record approximately 13 of my sorties were unproductive for one reason or another. While I do enjoy a good 30k attack on bombers they do tend to die or bail or in four cases pull the plug on the internet. I did learn you get A kill on bombers when they do that (if you are close enough) and you get to see who the noob is but aside from that... tough.
Thanks for the laugh though Shuffler (looking up SAPP I mean). :D
:rofl :aok
If you take a short film you can see too. :D
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Grizz dont be silly. I have flown all of those planes and they are as 'easy mode' as any plane in the game. I think you are trying to write your own press releases. :rolleyes:
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Grizz dont be silly. I have flown all of those planes and they are as 'easy mode' as any plane in the game. I think you are trying to write your own press releases. :rolleyes:
TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M? :huh Sorry Chalenge but no...then again I don't agree with Grizz saying the 262 is as much of a challenge to win with as a 109.
I'm still trying to figure out the idea of skill in this thread...seems like a matter of experience combined with better computer/control equipment than anything related to "skill". And there is no difference in the challenge between 1v1 or 1v5...put any person in a plane he is very familiar with (i.e. favorite toonplane) and his chances of survival are good...if his connection to the server is faster than his opponent(s) so his toonplane reacts faster to input his chances of survival are better...combine those aspects with a high end control setup against an opponent using a simple twisty stick and keyboard...and he has much higher than average chance victory, even over multiple opponents. In the end it comes down to experience...knowing the strengths/weakenesses and playing the strengths against the opponents weaknesses. A person with just 2 weeks of stick time with the best setup money can buy, connected directly to the server doesn't stand a chance against someone with 5 years of experience on a laptop and a twisty stick and dsl connection.
Or is experience being called skill in this conversation?
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TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M? :huh Sorry Chalenge but no...then again I don't agree with Grizz saying the 262 is as much of a challenge to win with as a 109.
I'm still trying to figure out the idea of skill in this thread...seems like a matter of experience combined with better computer/control equipment than anything related to "skill". And there is no difference in the challenge between 1v1 or 1v5...put any person in a plane he is very familiar with (i.e. favorite toonplane) and his chances of survival are good...if his connection to the server is faster than his opponent(s) so his toonplane reacts faster to input his chances of survival are better...combine those aspects with a high end control setup against an opponent using a simple twisty stick and keyboard...and he has much higher than average chance victory, even over multiple opponents. In the end it comes down to experience...knowing the strengths/weakenesses and playing the strengths against the opponents weaknesses. A person with just 2 weeks of stick time with the best setup money can buy, connected directly to the server doesn't stand a chance against someone with 5 years of experience on a laptop and a twisty stick and dsl connection.
Or is experience being called skill in this conversation?
Experience is part of your skill set. It is how you learn. Through experience.
I wont even touch the rest of junk you wrote about connecting directly to the server and equipment.
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I have dsl connection in England UK (ping ~170), I have a cheap twisty stick and keyboard setup. I have beat people who live near the HTC server and fly with full hotas. Does this make me extra skillz than if i lived in Texas and had a better setup? :D
sweet!
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Experience is part of your skill set. It is how you learn. Through experience.
Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.
I wont even touch the rest of junk you wrote about connecting directly to the server and equipment.
LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact? :rofl I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either... :rofl
I have dsl connection in England UK (ping ~170), I have a cheap twisty stick and keyboard setup. I have beat people who live near the HTC server and fly with full hotas. Does this make me extra skillz than if i lived in Texas and had a better setup? :D
sweet!
I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you... :rofl I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... :aok
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Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.
LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact? :rofl I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either... :rofl
I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you... :rofl I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... :aok
OK, define skill for me.
Explain why do you think lag plays any role here. Response of what to what? Packets come and go every 250ms
The guy with the 5 years will destroy the two weeker. Because of experience and skill. What does the lap top have to do with anything?
Look, if you suck in this game, try harder. Dont look for excuses :lol
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Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.
LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact? :rofl I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either... :rofl
I would say you are right in the fact that experience is not a skill..however skill is refined with experience.
as for equipment...there are guys here who kick butt using a mouse...equipment makes things easier but doesn't make it better
My ping rate is at 182 always has been......sure there can be anomalies from time to time but it is neither here nor there....maybe I'm just used to this. (and I'm managing to improve in my ability/skill...a bit stagnated at the moment though.
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I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you... :rofl I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... :aok
As far as i know, the only difference it causes is that when someone from Texas shoots me it looks like he hit just behind my aircraft. At first i thought it was something wierd then I realised it was just that his FE showed me to be a few yards behind where i thought I was. I got used to this and without even thinking about it I assume that I must turn slightly early than I expect, etc. See what i mean? I don't think lag has any effect. Also liek Tongs said, I have had my butt kicked by someone flying on a mouse before, control setup and connection have very little to do with anything, just in my opinion.
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TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M?
All of these planes are pretty much equally dead in average hands being on the defensive on the deck against a large crowd of bandits. But all I think they are all equally useful as bnz/energy fighters.
Well, Ta-152 has 9minutes of WEP, compared to the P-47M's 5 minutes before it becomes a 330mph under-powered pig. And the WEP on the Jumo replenishes much quicker when not in use. The Ta-152 retains energy much better under Gs than either plane, and while its 30MM cannon is harder to hit with than .50s, it also can destroy any fighter with one ping, as opposed to the nothing or mere damage that will often come from .50s, especially the mere 6 of the P-51. The 152 is also blessed with 1/3rd more ammo for the tater gun than the K4 AND a pair of potent twenties to back up the 30MM, take long shots with, and which are liable to hit the enemy plane if you miscalculate the lead on the 30mm abit.
Really, it comes down to which shooting style are you better at, are you a steady enough hand to snipe from 500 yards or do you have to stick the gun right up their tailpipe? If the latter, the 30's insta-death lethality gives it an edge. Of course, we all know that for 90% of the players, splitting the difference and using a 20mm cannon or 4 is easiest...
There is nothing terribly daunting about using the Ta-152 to get kills in the same manner as the Pony is typically used. I also don't see don't think its inferior as a dogfighter to either a Pony or a Jug.
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OK, define skill for me.
Explain why do you think lag plays any role here. Response of what to what? Packets come and go every 250ms
The guy with the 5 years will destroy the two weeker. Because of experience and skill. What does the lap top have to do with anything?
Look, if you suck in this game, try harder. Dont look for excuses :lol
Well, considering skill has a different meaning than experience I'll give it to you right from the dictionary:
Skill:
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well
Experience:
knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone
A skill is gained through experience...not the other way around. And I wouldn't have said anything if you weren't trying to show how uber your cyber nutz are.
I'll dummy this down a bit...a person with a 15 inch screen using a twisty stick has 2 disadvantages, one being lower visibility, it's more difficult to see detail on a 15 inch than a 22 inch, should be pretty self explanatory...the other is a twisty stick does not allow the level of control over a toonplane that a programmable stick and throttle quadrant with rudder pedals gives a person. Anyone who has made the investment and upgraded from a twisty stick to a full CH flight system will tell you, they have much better control.
And lag does play a role in this environment...though I have grossly oversimplified it...response to input, meaning push a button and the time it takes for the system to register that input...a person with 5ms connection is registering data packets to the server much faster than a person with a 100ms connection...in some ways the person with the faster connection could be said to have a slight disadvantage but that is a different discussion.
Just for FYI, I don't make excuses for anything...anyone who has been on the servers while I'm on will tell you that when it comes to flying in toonville, I'm the first to admit I suck and I don't have a problem with it.
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Oh so Lag is the reason Im not as good as say...Krupnski...Ill use that excuse from now on :rolleyes:
As far as "easy mode" about the luft planes I would like to stick a 2 weeker in a spitfire or any other plane for that matter, then sit him in a 109.....hes definately guna like the other ones better till he can unleash the 109s awesome fury
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All of these planes are pretty much equally dead in average hands being on the defensive on the deck against a large crowd of bandits. But all I think they are all equally useful as bnz/energy fighters.
Well, Ta-152 has 9minutes of WEP, compared to the P-47M's 5 minutes before it becomes a 330mph under-powered pig. And the WEP on the Jumo replenishes much quicker when not in use. The Ta-152 retains energy much better under Gs than either plane, and while its 30MM cannon is harder to hit with than .50s, it also can destroy any fighter with one ping, as opposed to the nothing or mere damage that will often come from .50s, especially the mere 6 of the P-51. The 152 is also blessed with 1/3rd more ammo for the tater gun than the K4 AND a pair of potent twenties to back up the 30MM, take long shots with, and which are liable to hit the enemy plane if you miscalculate the lead on the 30mm abit.
Really, it comes down to which shooting style are you better at, are you a steady enough hand to snipe from 500 yards or do you have to stick the gun right up their tailpipe? If the latter, the 30's insta-death lethality gives it an edge. Of course, we all know that for 90% of the players, splitting the difference and using a 20mm cannon or 4 is easiest...
There is nothing terribly daunting about using the Ta-152 to get kills in the same manner as the Pony is typically used. I also don't see don't think its inferior as a dogfighter to either a Pony or a Jug.
I dunno man...that TA-152 doesn't climb any faster than a donkey while the Pony and Jug can climb out and away much faster. True if the 152 maintains it's energy it flies really smooth but in a level turn fight it dogs out fast where the Pony and Jug can maintain energy in a turn longer. When the 152 gets close to stall speeds, it's tough to handle. It does come down to a matter of understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the planes and flying them to their strengths...but I wouldn't categorize any of the Luftwaffe planes as "easy mode" compared to a Tempest, Spixteen, Jug or Pony. Heck, even I wouldn't hesitate taking those planes into a 1v5.
Oh so Lag is the reason Im not as good as say...Krupnski...Ill use that excuse from now on :rolleyes:
LMAO...no Junky that's not what I said...note the repeated use of the word "slight"...doesn't mean it's the primary reason. Now, take a person using a 15 inch laptop on a wireless connection sitting in Guatemala with nothing but a mouse and the keyboard and I don't care how long he's been a toon pile-it...big disadvantage unless he's vulching or picking and he's probably doing it in a Spixteen or a Typhoon.
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I dunno man...that TA-152 doesn't climb any faster than a donkey while the Pony and Jug can climb out and away much faster. True if the 152 maintains it's energy it flies really smooth but in a level turn fight it dogs out fast where the Pony and Jug can maintain energy in a turn longer. When the 152 gets close to stall speeds, it's tough to handle. It does come down to a matter of understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the planes and flying them to their strengths...but I wouldn't categorize any of the Luftwaffe planes as "easy mode" compared to a Tempest, Spixteen, Jug or Pony. Heck, even I wouldn't hesitate taking those planes into a 1v5.
LMAO...no Junky that's not what I said...note the repeated use of the word "slight"...doesn't mean it's the primary reason. Now, take a person using a 15 inch laptop on a wireless connection sitting in Guatemala with nothing but a mouse and the keyboard and I don't care how long he's been a toon pile-it...big disadvantage unless he's vulching or picking and he's probably doing it in a Spixteen or a Typhoon.
I didnt see a mouse part earlier but Ill agree with you about that, mouse does make it harder but I have seen some people get good with them, take stodd to the DA he uses a mouse
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I didnt see a mouse part earlier but Ill agree with you about that, mouse does make it harder but I have seen some people get good with them, take stodd to the DA he uses a mouse
If you have a good laser mouse and practice with it...surprisingly it actually takes less effort than a twisty stick...but it's sensitive to over reactions.
Anyone who can use a mouse and keyboard effectively in AH has my vote for "highly skilled toon pile-it".
Don't tell stodd I said that...his head is big enough :neener:
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Well, considering skill has a different meaning than experience I'll give it to you right from the dictionary:
Skill:
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well
Experience:
knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone
A skill is gained through experience...not the other way around. And I wouldn't have said anything if you weren't trying to show how uber your cyber nutz are.
I'll dummy this down a bit...a person with a 15 inch screen using a twisty stick has 2 disadvantages, one being lower visibility, it's more difficult to see detail on a 15 inch than a 22 inch, should be pretty self explanatory...the other is a twisty stick does not allow the level of control over a toonplane that a programmable stick and throttle quadrant with rudder pedals gives a person. Anyone who has made the investment and upgraded from a twisty stick to a full CH flight system will tell you, they have much better control.
And lag does play a role in this environment...though I have grossly oversimplified it...response to input, meaning push a button and the time it takes for the system to register that input...a person with 5ms connection is registering data packets to the server much faster than a person with a 100ms connection...in some ways the person with the faster connection could be said to have a slight disadvantage but that is a different discussion.
Just for FYI, I don't make excuses for anything...anyone who has been on the servers while I'm on will tell you that when it comes to flying in toonville, I'm the first to admit I suck and I don't have a problem with it.
Oh well, time to go home and from what I can see, it would have been pointless anyway :lol
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All of these planes are pretty much equally dead in average hands being on the defensive on the deck against a large crowd of bandits. But all I think they are all equally useful as bnz/energy fighters.
Well, Ta-152 has 9minutes of WEP, compared to the P-47M's 5 minutes before it becomes a 330mph under-powered pig. And the WEP on the Jumo replenishes much quicker when not in use. The Ta-152 retains energy much better under Gs than either plane, and while its 30MM cannon is harder to hit with than .50s, it also can destroy any fighter with one ping, as opposed to the nothing or mere damage that will often come from .50s, especially the mere 6 of the P-51. The 152 is also blessed with 1/3rd more ammo for the tater gun than the K4 AND a pair of potent twenties to back up the 30MM, take long shots with, and which are liable to hit the enemy plane if you miscalculate the lead on the 30mm abit.
Really, it comes down to which shooting style are you better at, are you a steady enough hand to snipe from 500 yards or do you have to stick the gun right up their tailpipe? If the latter, the 30's insta-death lethality gives it an edge. Of course, we all know that for 90% of the players, splitting the difference and using a 20mm cannon or 4 is easiest...
There is nothing terribly daunting about using the Ta-152 to get kills in the same manner as the Pony is typically used. I also don't see don't think its inferior as a dogfighter to either a Pony or a Jug.
The Ta152 is a very difficult plane to handle and kill with. All points you make are true about its performance specs but it doesn't change the fact that players choose not to fly it. I know most players in this game prefer the path to least resistance and easiest kills. That's why I see so many Spit16s, Hordes, and 5th man-6th man into a 1:x gang rape. They want kills. Wouldn't conventional wisdom state that if the Ta152 was an equal killer to the P51D or P47M, players would be flying it with near frequency? I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument that the Ta152 is a hidden secret, Soda's charts deter its use, or the fact that it's not as popular to Americans as the famous P51D Mustang is.
Does this mean you would leave out WEP? Even though 5 minutes of it is usually ample and 9 minutes is an eternity of WEP for MA purposes? How...convenient.
No, WEP included. I would say >95% of chases are decided within the first 60 seconds. Either the bandit decides he can catch the guy safely within reasonable time (and not chasing into a swarm of red), or he breaks off. WEP times will only play a role in a sustained 1+ sector chase (absurd btw) assuming each player has a reasonable % of wep left at the start of the chase. So my point was MAX Deck Cruise speeds.
If the Spit16 has other qualities good enough to make up for mediocre top speed, it is possible other planes do as well.
The Spit16 is Eny 5 because of its absurd popularity. Just like the Chog back in the day. The masses of AH decided that the Spit16 was an uber ride by flying it at an alarming rate. And yes before you ask, I would Eny 5 the P40E if all of a sudden the entire player base started flying it for all their sorties. That's not going to happen obviously. My general theory on this Eny stuff is Players will choose to fly the most efficient MA rides. Simply look at the Kills and Sorties over a 6 month period and see which planes are being flown the most. These planes are the best MA planes and should be Eny'd accordingly.
163? Are we talking about the same plane here? Because I thought thought the 163 was the one that turns like, I don't know, probably a 109 and has the speed, climb, and acceleration of a rocket.
Yes, and it requires serious throttle work and pristine tatering skills. This is why you only see the Army of Muppets landing respectable kill tallies in it.
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This is why you only see the Army of Muppets landing respectable kill tallies in it.
And there it is. :rofl
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I actually prefer the tater to .50s when the target is doing rolling, twisting, flopping type gun defenses, very common. 50cals are liable to scatter hits all over such a target without doing critical damage to any one part. A tater is pretty much one and done. However, obviously .50s are much easier to hit with on simple break-turns. So, I dunno, which one does one see more of?
, Soda's charts deter its use, or the fact that it's not as popular to Americans as the famous P51D Mustang is.
Soda is not the chart-guy, he's the review and writeup guy, and I'll venture the first research people do on the planes in this game most commonly comes from his reviews. Side by side on actual charts, the Ta-152 compares much more favorably to the Mustang, I think of it as a slightly slower Pony with big guns for most purposes.
The Spit16 is Eny 5 because of its absurd popularity. Just like the Chog back in the day. The masses of AH decided that the Spit16 was an uber ride by flying it at an alarming rate. And yes before you ask, I would Eny 5 the P40E if all of a sudden the entire player base started flying it for all their sorties. That's not going to happen obviously. My general theory on this Eny stuff is Players will choose to fly the most efficient MA rides. Simply look at the Kills and Sorties over a 6 month period and see which planes are being flown the most. These planes are the best MA planes and should be Eny'd accordingly.
This implies that the market always selects the best product on a logical basis. I think 'taint nessecarily so.
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I have dsl connection in England UK (ping ~170), I have a cheap twisty stick and keyboard setup. I have beat people who live near the HTC server and fly with full hotas. Does this make me extra skillz than if i lived in Texas and had a better setup? :D
sweet!
Maybe better skillz but you don't count. You don't live in Texas. :D
Was probably a yankee you played that moved down here anyway. :P
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The guy that started this has 1 post. And he got 6 pages of replies.
While someone that can dominate 1 on 1's is good, You also have to be able to be aware of whats going on around you in a furball. I think the better stick can regularly be around several planes in combat and normaly get several kills and egress safely.
Numbers of kills is meaningless.
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The best pilots are the ones who fight in a furball and get the least amount left of his aircraft back to base.
If you get back with most all your aircraft.... you aint spit.
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The best pilots are the ones who fight in a furball and get the least amount left of his aircraft back to base.
If you get back with most all your aircraft.... you aint spit.
:rofl Spoken like a true SAPP'R...sadly I have yet to do any better than land with both wing tips and wheels missing, oiled, pilot wounded and upside down on the runway with 1 kill.
The guy that started this has 1 post. And he got 6 pages of replies.
Just goes to show, toss a turd biscuit into a pig pen and every pig around will fight over it.
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And there it is. :rofl
Take a look at Me163 statistics over the last few tours if you want to be bludgeoned by fact.
This implies that the market always selects the best product on a logical basis. I think 'taint nessecarily so.
The masses will fly the easiest aircrafts that will maximize kills. Is that the "best product"? No, it's the easiest product. This tour, the P51D has ~12,500 Kills. The Ta152 has 1,400 kills. Last tour the P51D had 10 times as many kills. You argue the Ta152 is a better aircraft and I agree, but why don't the masses 'realize' this? I'm sure mostly everybody has flown a Ta152 at least once to see what all the fuss was about. They probably realized quickly that the plane is unbalanced, can't roll, goes into nasty tail spins, has an incredibly unstable gun platform making it difficult to line up a shot and even when they do get the guns lined up, the pesky ballistics make it near impossible to even connect. They then go back to their comfort zone planes which are the most popular rides in the game. They'd rather fly the easy stuff than learn the hard stuff and suck for a while, only to be better in the end. That's the way I have observed it and the stats don't lie.
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And there it is. :rofl
My question is: What exactly is "respectable kill tallies"?
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Take a look at Me163 statistics over the last few tours if you want to be bludgeoned by fact.
The masses will fly the easiest aircrafts that will maximize kills. Is that the "best product"? No, it's the easiest product. This tour, the P51D has ~12,500 Kills. The Ta152 has 1,400 kills. Last tour the P51D had 10 times as many kills. You argue the Ta152 is a better aircraft and I agree, but why don't the masses 'realize' this? I'm sure mostly everybody has flown a Ta152 at least once to see what all the fuss was about. They probably realized quickly that the plane is unbalanced, can't roll, goes into nasty tail spins, has an incredibly unstable gun platform making it difficult to line up a shot and even when they do get the guns lined up, the pesky ballistics make it near impossible to even connect. They then go back to their comfort zone planes which are the most popular rides in the game. They'd rather fly the easy stuff than learn the hard stuff and suck for a while, only to be better in the end. That's the way I have observed it and the stats don't lie.
I don't think I've ever flown the 152. I may have I suppose, by accident maybe? It has nothing to do with the flight model, ballistics, how hard it is, yada, yada, yada. I didn't even know it existed prior to playing this game. Now, knowing that it exists, I still have not had my interest piqued by it. I don't fly it because (like the other german planes) it's goofy-lookin'. I've never realized there was any "fuss" about the 152. Now, realizing I may have missed something exciting, I still have no interest in it.
I have flown the 163 and 262 a few times. Not too much, but some. My kill stats in those two planes have nothing to do with my squad affiliation. I've not found the 163 to be difficult to get kills in.
I fly the airplane that was my favorite as a kid, and still continues to be today, mainly due to its looks. Performance is a vastly less-important factor to me. As a youngster, we never even dreamed of internet, or internet flight combat simulators. Choosing my favorite plane had nothing to do with how easy it would be for me to get kills in in the MA.
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I don't fly it because (like the other german planes) it's goofy-lookin'.
Hey now, german Iron are the bad boy rides becuase they are mean looking, in and out
go back to flying that easy mode Hog :D :salute
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Hey now, german Iron are the bad boy rides because they are mean looking, in and out
go back to flying that easy mode Hog :D :salute
Lol, "mean" looking?? Please... I think I even saw one with some goofy lookin' snorkel doo-hickey sticking out of it...
My guess is they were designed that way as a sort of camouflage. They figured nobody would take them seriously in those ridiculous looking planes until it was too late. Judging by the early success of their campaign, they probably succeeded.
Now their U-boats on the other hand, are beautiful, and I think can out-turn the 109's.
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Oh come on the hog looks like someone took a tube and stuck bent up wings on it.
German aircraft are sexily curvy and aggressively angular at the same time. It's ridiculous.
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German aircraft are ridiculous.
Agreed!
:D
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I don't think I've ever flown the 152. I may have I suppose, by accident maybe? It has nothing to do with the flight model, ballistics, how hard it is, yada, yada, yada. I didn't even know it existed prior to playing this game. Now, knowing that it exists, I still have not had my interest piqued by it. I don't fly it because (like the other german planes) it's goofy-lookin'. I've never realized there was any "fuss" about the 152. Now, realizing I may have missed something exciting, I still have no interest in it.
I have flown the 163 and 262 a few times. Not too much, but some. My kill stats in those two planes have nothing to do with my squad affiliation. I've not found the 163 to be difficult to get kills in.
I fly the airplane that was my favorite as a kid, and still continues to be today, mainly due to its looks. Performance is a vastly less-important factor to me. As a youngster, we never even dreamed of internet, or internet flight combat simulators. Choosing my favorite plane had nothing to do with how easy it would be for me to get kills in in the MA.
You aren't part of the 'masses' I refer to MtnMan.
I'm sure every single Spit16 pilot can justify why they fly the plane. When they were very young they received a Spit16 model from a sick uncle and it has stuck ever since. It surely has nothing to do with the plane's in game specs. :lol
I find is amusing when I kill a P51D pilot a few times, and he comes back in a Ta152 only to stall out and crash and hop back in the Mustang. :lol
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Agreed!
:D
:furious :furious :furious
:D
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Lol, "mean" looking?? Please... I think I even saw one with some goofy lookin' snorkel doo-hickey sticking out of it...
My guess is they were designed that way as a sort of camouflage. They figured nobody would take them seriously in those ridiculous looking planes until it was too late. Judging by the early success of their campaign, they probably succeeded.
Now their U-boats on the other hand, are beautiful, and I think can out-turn the 109's.
The corsairs are the clown planes with their gear and flap tricks and funny looking bent wings.
The 109s are the sexiest planes in the game!
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I find is amusing when I kill a P51D pilot a few times, and he comes back in a Ta152 only to stall out and crash and hop back in the Mustang. :lol
Lol, I get the same thing with F4U's! I love that!
Spits and Hurris and zero's and... then they hop in an F4U to teach me a lesson!
I was being tongue-in-cheek with you Grizz! :D
BTW, never heard of the Spit16 prior to AH either... :confused:
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The 109s are the sexiest planes in the game!
Ever see the study where people pair up with similar-looking people, pets, etc? I'm not surprised you find the 109 so appealing...
:neener:
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Someone needs to put MtnMan in his place...........real men fly luft!!! :D
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It depends on how the pilot is flying.
It takes skill to survive in a multi-plane enviroment just as it takes skill to win in a 1 on 1.
But..
Take the timid picker type who is always landing 3-5 kills. When you force a 1 on 1 on them they tend to die quick. Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
Sounds like a bunch of guys I used to "fly" with..... could drop a few names..... I agree with the 1v1! I need a lots of improvement in the 1v1 against the veteran guys here.
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After reading this entire thread...I have determained that I am even worst than I thought.
Alas my P51 and I are doomed. My P47 and I arte finished. The mistress 16 and I are on the outs. I'm done for.
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Sounds like a bunch of guys I used to "fly" with..... could drop a few names..... I agree with the 1v1! I need a lots of improvement in the 1v1 against the veteran guys here.
Dude ask the good sticks to the DA for some fun 1v1s, if they dont go smack talk them into going :D :salute
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You aren't part of the 'masses' I refer to MtnMan.
I find is amusing when I kill a P51D pilot a few times, and he comes back in a Ta152 only to stall out and crash and hop back in the Mustang. :lol
:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
You have beautiful eyes Steve...
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:rolleyes:
Stats don't lie, it's the most popular ride. It's not your fault that your beautiful baby's rep has been gheyed up by the unskilled masses flying them around like dweebs. Slurp.
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The 109s are the sexiest planes in the game!
:rolleyes:
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Take a look at Me163 statistics over the last few tours if you want to be bludgeoned by fact.
The FACTS are that the vast majority of people will not go after anyone with a 163 but not because its a hard plane to get kills with (thats your ego talking) but because the vast majority of people cannot compete with the guys that DO up 163s for the 1-3 bombers that might still be alive by the time they get there.
Thats changing I hope.
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My question is: What exactly is "respectable kill tallies"?
In my book it isnt landing 20+ kills and having a K/D of slightly better than 2.1 if you know what I mean. :rofl
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(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/mossie_163.JPG)
i got a 163 escorting our bombers the other day. wooot
ok, i am not supporting anyone's argument but i thought this contribution was worth as much as any of the drivel being posted here now :D
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Thats interesting, you hit the left wing but the right wing came off.
Did you strike the right wing in an earlier frame that wasn't graphically represented?
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I guess i will say something.
Everyone on AH has skills, some are really advance while most are average. There is no argument about that. The way i see it, if you can up in a AC get into a dogfight, regardless if you win or lose, you have skills.
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The puff of smoke is the hitsprite from the broken wing trailing back and the tracers in shot just happen to be missing under the other wing, did not hit that wing at all I dont think.
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(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/mossie_163.JPG)
i got a 163 escorting our bombers the other day. wooot
ok, i am not supporting anyone's argument but i thought this contribution was worth as much as any of the drivel being posted here now :D
Everyone knows that giving you nose-mounted Hispano's isn't much different than giving you a Sidewinder, you don't have to rub it itn...
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hehe, should i admit that he had run out of fuel after a few minutes of fighting?
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hehe, should i admit that he had run out of fuel after a few minutes of fighting?
No..... bwcause that is what they do and how they were vulnerable. :aok
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I say 1v1...although a good furball gone wrong can never hurt either. 6v6 can turn into a 2v5 or a 1v4 really fast...thats when you need to either run like a wild banshee or use your "ace pilot skills" and pwn them suckers :lol
:salute SWkiljoy