Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: VuduVee on March 02, 2013, 01:21:51 AM
-
i see that some folks are happy with their escorts. sure would be nice if everyone got equal escort coverage. but, its the same thing every week it seems. certain squads get the best planes every week, always have escorts and always get the best targets. while the rest of us are basically used as fodder. fed to the wolves because we arent giant squads. never get to pick first. its always the same squads in the best rides. we get the leftovers. sorry to gripe, but the sht end of the stick is old. im thinking im done with FSO till things are more fair and not so cliquish.
-
i see that some folks are happy with their escorts. sure would be nice if everyone got equal escort coverage. but, its the same thing every week it seems. certain squads get the best planes every week, always have escorts and always get the best targets. while the rest of us are basically used as fodder. fed to the wolves because we arent giant squads. never get to pick first. its always the same squads in the best rides. we get the leftovers. sorry to gripe, but the sht end of the stick is old. im thinking im done with FSO till things are more fair and not so cliquish.
Hey Al,to be fair, I'm not sure if you have planned an axis or allied attack/defense recently but it can get rather complicated trying to meet the minimums and maximums. Some small squads just get placed just like large squads get placed to fill a gap and make the numbers match.
We haven't planned in a month or two but when we did it was very hard to get people their requests and meet the requirements. Did the best we could and kept mostly everyone happy.
It also helps to perform as expected. Show up on time, with the right number, and get the job assigned done. People will start thinking, hey we should put X for escort of Y because they always stick with the buffs and get them home. They always report in and coordinate during the battle with command, etc.
Granted I've been more than disappointed with many of our assignments, but don't bail from FSO, especially between frames. That just puts a tick mark in the unreliable column.
I remember one a few months back we were assigned Bettys instead of fighters as requested. We whined and complained internally; however we executed the plan, even had some deception mixed in to confuse the enemy defense, shot down a few fighters and I believe were even top destroyers for that frame. That disappointing assignment turned out to be one of my most fun and memorable FSOs.
Don't give up on the best of part of Aces High. We all end up in the grinder at some point, in game and in life. :salute
-
i understand that its difficult to set it up. but its obvious that certain squads are favored. if Duxford ever does well you can bet it was bc we overcame our placement and odds and fought like hell to do it too. and to get noticed you need to be placed in a position with at least a slim light at the end of the tunnel. but we rarely do. we've fulfilled our end every week and still get the bottom of the barrel every week. they cant keep putting us in junk and expect that we will stand out. we dont get the chance too stand out bc we are used as fodder. they can give me that mark as unreliable, bc every week they set us up to fail. so what does it matter? for me, if i see Duxford in bombers again next week with scrapped together escorts while another group has 2 dedicated fighter squadrons of escorts. ill be done with FSO. bc its not fair.
-
Vudu,
I gave Duxford Spit 8s (as was requested in your ride preference) in February Frame 1 FSO when I was CiC. Gave you guys what I thought a rock'n mission (scouting).
I am not trying to defend anything because I get it and I totally understand your frustration. Our squad has been there (and still is when it comes to getting a crappy ride). I really do think people try to do good by others in FSO. I know that when I am CiC, I always try to put the smaller squads in with either a giant squad or multiple medium squads to give them a chance to survive and to have fun in the process. I do recall that there have been a few first timer CiCs recently.
Part of the problem, from what I have experienced, is a lack of communication prior to FSO night. I don't mean commuicating the effort 30 minutes prior to launch. I mean a few emails throughout the week. When orders are sent on time or even early, it is a great opportunity to reach out and coordinate. G3-MF even invites squads they are paired with to do training in the hours leading up to FSO so the communication and targeting is fine tuned. Some squads do it, most don't. But we always offer.
We only had one small/medium squad for escort. The second squad came to our rescue from defending a base because we planned our egress to come over that target area in case we needed help (in which we did need help) and we communicated our position and situation. We started off with an escort squad of 6 or 7 Bf109s. JG11 came to help scrub off the last of our persuit.
My point is don't quit. At least in my mind, you are a valued stick in FSO and a respected person in the AH community. :cheers:
:rock
SlipKnoT
-
Vudu,
You do realize that planes and assignments are peer (CiC) assigned, yes? Who are these 'they' that you are referring to, that you say show favorites?
In FSO...'they'...are the participating squads.
JG11 came to help scrub off the last of our persuit.
Was dumb luck to some part, Slip. At dot range we thought you were enemy at first, but when you transmitted that you were in trouble...it became clear...who was who.
-
...its always the same squads in the best rides. we get the leftovers. sorry to gripe, but the sht end of the stick is old. im thinking im done with FSO till things are more fair and not so cliquish.
The AK's got Stukas this frame even though it was not our requested ride. As usual, we made lemonade out of lemons. Our frame lasted all of 15 minutes.
Many times you have to approach FSO with the frame of mind of getting the job done.
-
...and two FSO's ago the 334th got buffs two weeks in a row, you play the cards you're dealt while squeaking loudly on squad vox to each other, but keeping it there.
shamus
-
Nice job SlipKnt on planning your squads egress even if it was dumb luck that you ran into. Vudu, I'm feelen ya but by no means QUIT! It works out eventually and you guys are respected, may not seem so but you guys are. Our squad gets worked up too, like outta all the squads ours has switched to axis for our fourth time in a year when mathimatically and being fair about rotations should work out to once a year if that, so I understand when you imply there may be some favoritism considering some haven't rotated in years, but it's still not worth leaving the best coordinated massed actions in the game. Do what we do when assigned CIC duty, remember who porked ya and return the favor, rotten but true. Like whomever it was that strapped us to the lowest Zero for three frames in a row, well, as CIC's whatta ya think they're gonna fly next time we pick their ride. Pand is on the money about communication the week before the frame, tremendous help shapping up with friendly squads prior to the event and every point he's made are valid and I second them. Stick it out with us, we'll back ya any chance we can :salute :airplane:
-
Voodoo, you are aware that you are the CiC for frame 3 this month right? If you haven't been CiC before, I think it will become very clear to you how difficult it is accommodate all the requests and put together a battle plan that meets all the event requirements.
That said, there are some changes that you could make so that your squad gets shafted less often. (Every squad gets the shaft from time to time)
1. Always update your squad's ride preference each month. You have spit8's and 9's named but they are not in this months setup. Also you generically stated that "buffs" are OK. Well, there aren't any spits to go around so you got buffs just like you asked for(whenever you last updated your rides).
2. Focus on playing one side for a few consecutive months (this is usually easier when choosing Axis) This helps to build camaraderie between your squad and the side regulars. You don't really gain any notoriety bouncing around from side to side. As you said, who you know does helps.
3. Most importantly, recruit more members to your squad to move up to a 7-10 commitment. 4-6 size squads are generally seen as filler slots. The CiC sees that he need a few planes to bolster a portion of their plan and these small squads are used to fill the gaps. Good performance is usually overlooked because it seldom makes the "Top Squad" list. 7-10 size I consider the prime commitment for dedicated fighter squads, especially if you can maintain squad participation on the high end (9-10). These squads typically are used as the focus of a fighter contingent when planning. With a squad this size, good performance in a frame can really put your name on the map. Consistant play at this level will pay dividends over the long run. After all, KN and Jg11 didn't become the axis elite over night.
:salute
-
i understand that its sometimes hard to get everyone in plane of choice. i get it. the spit8 week was very fun, its one of the only times we had fighters. i appreciate that you gave us that ride. youre always fair, as is G3 in general. but generally we are given whatever is left over, like Bostons. its old and im burnt out with it.
stampf- "they" are the CiC's, i know this, thats the reason i posted. mostly "they" are giving their guys the choices. i understand this, but sometimes, throw the dog a bone right? in two weeks Qbert(Duxford) is CiC, im pretty sure he'll give others first choice to avoid being seen as playing favorites. as it should be, but im goin to push for fighters.
also, i dont know why any one would ever pick Bostons to do anything ever in any kind of war or war game. we have been stuck with those pieces of crap several times and only made it back to base one time. we can thank pand and his guys for gettin us out of it or we woulda been dead that time too.
-
Nice job SlipKnt on planning your squads egress even if it was dumb luck that you ran into. Vudu, I'm feelen ya but by no means QUIT! It works out eventually and you guys are respected, may not seem so but you guys are. Our squad gets worked up too, like outta all the squads ours has switched to axis for our fourth time in a year when mathimatically and being fair about rotations should work out to once a year if that, so I understand when you imply there may be some favoritism considering some haven't rotated in years, but it's still not worth leaving the best coordinated massed actions in the game. Do what we do when assigned CIC duty, remember who porked ya and return the favor, rotten but true. Like whomever it was that strapped us to the lowest Zero for three frames in a row, well, as CIC's whatta ya think they're gonna fly next time we pick their ride. Pand is on the money about communication the week before the frame, tremendous help shapping up with friendly squads prior to the event and every point he's made are valid and I second them. Stick it out with us, we'll back ya any chance we can :salute :airplane:
this is bullcrap.....purposely putting someone in particular rides because you got shafted is LAME....and should be grounds for suspension IMO
you say you got stuck with the lo end Zero's.....I am guessing that particular FSO EVERYONE had those crappy Zero's....
it should be about the Axis/Allies not YOU in FSO
-
Voodoo, you are aware that you are the CiC for frame 3 this month right? If you haven't been CiC before, I think it will become very clear to you how difficult it is accommodate all the requests and put together a battle plan that meets all the event requirements.
That said, there are some changes that you could make so that your squad gets shafted less often. (Every squad gets the shaft from time to time)
1. Always update your squad's ride preference each month. You have spit8's and 9's named but they are not in this months setup. Also you generically stated that "buffs" are OK. Well, there aren't any spits to go around so you got buffs just like you asked for(whenever you last updated your rides).
2. Focus on playing one side for a few consecutive months (this is usually easier when choosing Axis) This helps to build camaraderie between your squad and the side regulars. You don't really gain any notoriety bouncing around from side to side. As you said, who you know does helps.
3. Most importantly, recruit more members to your squad to move up to a 7-10 commitment. 4-6 size squads are generally seen as filler slots. The CiC sees that he need a few planes to bolster a portion of their plan and these small squads are used to fill the gaps. Good performance is usually overlooked because it seldom makes the "Top Squad" list. 7-10 size I consider the prime commitment for dedicated fighter squads, especially if you can maintain squad participation on the high end (9-10). These squads typically are used as the focus of a fighter contingent when planning. With a squad this size, good performance in a frame can really put your name on the map. Consistant play at this level will pay dividends over the long run. After all, KN and Jg11 didn't become the axis elite over night.
:salute
this post pretty much proves my point. the smaller squads get no credit and are seen as filler. even if they are misused. the suggestion is that we recruit more people. but we dont want a giant squad because we prefer quality over quantity. we dont need a hoard to be successful. to get any credit we have to be a giant squad is crap. its fairly clear to me, that we are screwed. and FSO is useless for my squad. i cant speak for all of Duxford, but im pretty sure im done bc of the mindset in FSO makeup.
-
this is bullcrap.....purposely putting someone in particular rides because you got shafted is LAME....and should be grounds for suspension IMO
you say you got stuck with the lo end Zero's.....I am guessing that particular FSO EVERYONE had those crappy Zero's....
it should be about the Axis/Allies not YOU in FSO
yeah i cant see Qbert working this way. he is always fair and lets us know that we may be gettin the sht end of the stick.
-
this post pretty much proves my point. the smaller squads get no credit and are seen as filler. even if they are misused. the suggestion is that we recruit more people. but we dont want a giant squad because we prefer quality over quantity. we dont need a hoard to be successful. to get any credit we have to be a giant squad is crap. its fairly clear to me, that we are screwed. and FSO is useless for my squad. i cant speak for all of Duxford, but im pretty sure im done bc of the mindset in FSO makeup.
You missed my point. The small squads arent seen as filler(fodder), they are used as filler(a small piece of a bigger picture). The small squads serve the purpose of being more flexible in the planning stages. These are just as vital as the big squads that rack up the majority of kills/targets.
I was not suggesting that your squad become a horde. A 10 man squad is by no means a horde, but it does have the ability to use have its force applied like a hammer, should the oppertunity present itself. You simply wont find a situation in FSO where a single 4-6 squad will have any measueable effect by themselves. The engagements are just too large. A small squad by defanition will act as part of a group with other squads. I suggested the 7-10 size as a means to get more fighter sorties, to have your squad be the main fighter force in a group. This size means you can effectly double your output without having to rely on random smaller squads. A good 7-10 is the very defanition of quality over quanitity. If Duxford Wing is as good as you say they are, I would think that you guys will thrive with a small increase in your ranks.
-
You missed my point. The small squads arent seen as filler(fodder), they are used as filler(a small piece of a bigger picture). The small squads serve the purpose of being more flexible in the planning stages. These are just as vital as the big squads that rack up the majority of kills/targets.
I was not suggesting that your squad become a horde. A 10 man squad is by no means a horde, but it does have the ability to use have its force applied like a hammer, should the oppertunity present itself. You simply wont find a situation in FSO where a single 4-6 squad will have any measueable effect by themselves. The engagements are just too large. A small squad by defanition will act as part of a group with other squads. I suggested the 7-10 size as a means to get more fighter sorties, to have your squad be the main fighter force in a group. This size means you can effectly double your output without having to rely on random smaller squads. A good 7-10 is the very defanition of quality over quanitity. If Duxford Wing is as good as you say they are, I would think that you guys will thrive with a small increase in your ranks.
your whole point seems to me that small squads are barely worth having bc we dont rack up kills/targets. its hard to do that when youre given junk and used as filler/fodder. im pretty sure im out. its clear that this is a big squad event and the rest are just there as filler/fodder. because we have no measurable effect.
-
your whole point seems to me that small squads are barely worth having bc we don't rack up kills/targets. its hard to do that when you re given junk and used as filler/fodder. im pretty sure im out. its clear that this is a big squad event and the rest are just there as filler/fodder. because we have no measurable effect.
No. That is your projection of the situation. The small squads are equally important as medium/large squads. It is the size that dictates the likely roles based on variety of factors. Small squads are best used as as filler because their size is inadequate for other roles. They will either scout, be part of an escort group, part of a defensive group or part of a strike group(bombers). The idea being that by combining multiple smaller squads, that you project the strength of a larger one. Of course a large squad has the advantage of having its pilots being familiar with each other.
If you complaint is more an issue with getting the better planes, then what you have to remember is that these planes are often severely restricted. A good CiC recognizes this will issue them to squads who will likely maximize their potential. If I have 10 190A-5s to give out I will choose one 7-10 squad vs. two 4-6 squads in order to concentrate the effect. It is not because those small squads are bad, but because the smaller squads are better used in another role due to their flexibility.
I don't know what to tell you on the squad size vs. total kills thing. Your squad simply cant compete because of the difference in numbers. If you are equating zestfulness to the squad size only, then you re dead wrong. If both of our squads average 2 kills per pilot, Duxford scores 12 and KN, 20. Same squad quality, big difference in kill quantity though isn't there?
-
2. Focus on playing one side for a few consecutive months (this is usually easier when choosing Axis) This helps to build camaraderie between your squad and the side regulars. You don't really gain any notoriety bouncing around from side to side. As you said, who you know does helps.
So how does one go about getting their requested side? You make it sound like its a given, and maybe for a few select squadrons it is. Unfortunately its statements like this that seem to justify the OP's original complaint. My squad and I dont choose to "Bounce Around" as you so casually seem to believe. Being in a smaller Squad should have no bearing on what side you get put on or what ride you recieve on Fridays, but IMO seems to be the case.
-
So how does one go about getting their requested side? You make it sound like its a given, and maybe for a few select squadrons it is. Unfortunately its statements like this that seem to justify the OP's original complaint. My squad and I dont choose to "Bounce Around" as you so casually seem to believe. Bieng in a smaller Squad should have no bearing on what side you get put on or what ride you recieve on Fridays, but IMO seems to be the case.
You raise a good point. I was thinking thet there was group of predominant Allied squads, but that isnt really the case. I was figuring that most of the squads that moved between sides did so voluntarily, also probably not the case. I imagine that the small squad size issue only manifests itself with the side split when there needs to be set imbalance between sides.
My original point only applies to dedicated Axis squads, as we are more familiar with each others strengths and weaknesses. I doubt that a squad with "RAF" in their name would be all that interested in staying Axis for a while.
-
No. That is your projection of the situation. The small squads are equally important as medium/large squads. It is the size that dictates the likely roles based on variety of factors. Small squads are best used as as filler because their size is inadequate for other roles. They will either scout, be part of an escort group, part of a defensive group or part of a strike group(bombers). The idea being that by combining multiple smaller squads, that you project the strength of a larger one. Of course a large squad has the advantage of having its pilots being familiar with each other.
If you complaint is more an issue with getting the better planes, then what you have to remember is that these planes are often severely restricted. A good CiC recognizes this will issue them to squads who will likely maximize their potential. If I have 10 190A-5s to give out I will choose one 7-10 squad vs. two 4-6 squads in order to concentrate the effect. It is not because those small squads are bad, but because the smaller squads are better used in another role due to their flexibility.
I don't know what to tell you on the squad size vs. total kills thing. Your squad simply cant compete because of the difference in numbers. If you are equating zestfulness to the squad size only, then you re dead wrong. If both of our squads average 2 kills per pilot, Duxford scores 12 and KN, 20. Same squad quality, big difference in kill quantity though isn't there?
i am equating zest with squad size. bc, if a small squad is playing hard and doing the very best they can with what they have, at some point those small squads should be given some dam credit. but its not like that, we get the sht end just about every week, no matter that we may have earned our keep. and the bigger squads get to reap what they sow and smaller ones dont, they are an afterthought even though they play just as hard. based on this alone, imo Duxford should bow out of FSO.
-
i am equating zest with squad size. bc, if a small squad is playing hard and doing the very best they can with what they have, at some point those small squads should be given some dam credit. but its not like that, we get the sht end just about every week, no matter that we may have earned our keep. and the bigger squads get to reap what they sow and smaller ones dont, they are an afterthought even though they play just as hard. based on this alone, imo Duxford should bow out of FSO.
How would you go about seeing that the smaller squads get propper regognition?
I hope you understand that I'm trying to help and not advocating that small squads get shafted. The point that I was trying to make is that nature of being a small squad dictates a higher risk of being shafted. My suggestions were made to help your squad minimize that risk. Quitting FSO solves nothing.
-
The GunFighters are a bigger squad and not only did we not get the ride we asked for but we didn't even get the side we asked for. We were tasked base defence in P39D's of all things. We ended up having a blast and got top squad for kills. :O We all ended up down but everyone of us did the best we could with what we were given. Not every mission works out the way we plan but we always try and make the most of it. Hang in there and try and have fun with it.. <S>
-
this is bullcrap.....purposely putting someone in particular rides because you got shafted is LAME....and should be grounds for suspension IMO
you say you got stuck with the lo end Zero's.....I am guessing that particular FSO EVERYONE had those crappy Zero's....
it should be about the Axis/Allies not YOU in FSO
We always accept our orders ink, we always do our best without complaint (verifiable) and our squad shares your exact view about it being for the good of the entire team, complaints are for this forum and that's why we're here sharing our opinions about them. :salute I'd accept suspension if it were so deemed. Keep in mind though I spoke my opinion of something that can be done and in reality is done, it just is and most of the time it's out of necessity but it's only human to actually do or say these things too. Now if those that have in the past committed what we're talking about aren't retroactively suspended for actually having committed what I simply said I could or would do then I'd have to resist any acceptance of a suspension with out them being held accountable with me. I've witnessed first hand this activity of preferential and detrimental treatment of squads from within other FSO squads also. My remark about my squad being stuck in the lowest zero wasn't so much about the plane as it was about being in that plane for the total tour especially when there were much better aircraft available and being rotated, hell, we would've gladly taken a Val instead because it turns and doesn't fly to peaces at 400 mph. ALL CIC's do their part for the sake of the events frame, some do what we're talking about also. Maybe when we, as in anyone having CIC duty, evaluate actual accomplishments of those smaller squads through their achievements in FSO first instead of filling empty spaces, can change what we're talking about by doing this. Can't hurt. Us in the 35th take our assigning of squads seriously, very seriously and consider every one thoroughly before utilizing them. We've even had guys think we shafted em when we thought it was perfect for them but this example isn't what I'm talking about, the alleged unintentional things being done that many feel are being done on purpose is what I feel is a problem. No animosity here, I feel some are over exerting their authori tie some what against the spirit of FSO. :airplane:
-
vuduvee: having been a CIC numerous times, i can tell you this, i personally try to make sure no group is in the same plane twice in a row. i change everything up. one of the things i try very hard to do is work with small squads. JG54 started the FSO with 4-6 most weeks bearly making 3. we got beat up pretty good, almost every week. then i was assigned CIC and i freaked. after taking some oxy and a couple of beers, and some help from good people, i sat down and did what i thought was right.
again jg54 was a small squad. so to make up for numbers i always put put a small squad with a large squad, or put 2 small squads together in hopes that they would work together. having played the game for awhile, you get to know how some of the squads are and what they are capable of. my idea of putting a small squad with a big one, was so they would fly together and the smaller squad might learn something from them. We've flown with JG11 a few times. great bunch of guys, lots of fun to fly with, and very organized. what i learned flying with them, makes me use them in a particular fashion by playing to their strengths when I'm CIC. this is my style and how i like to put groups together. Other CIC's may or may not give it as much thought as i do.
for the longest time, JG54 would get beat up pretty bad. now we have enough numbers so that we dont get beat up so bad all the time, just most to the time! :D
the point is sometimes you just have to take your licks, get better or get more numbers. we recruit heavily. i look at the roster in the FSO, and try to recruit people that are out of uniform later in the week. eventually things will get better. just stick with it, we did, and we have alot of fun because of it. JG54 is not the best squad, but we have a good time and everyone that flies likes it. i hope you can get past your frustrations. if you'd like fly with us sometime just for a change of pace, you're welcome to join us. it might just be what you need.
<S> jeager1
-
1. Always update your squad's ride preference each month. You have spit8's and 9's named but they are not in this months setup. Also you generically stated that "buffs" are OK. Well, there aren't any spits to go around so you got buffs just like you asked for(whenever you last updated your rides).
I'll also back up what Devil 505 said regarding setting your preferences. We used to never update our preferences @ ahevents.org and that was us rolling the dice because we didn't know any better. Things improved once we started updating when the next month's FSO was announced.
-
yep you can update your preferences but if your a small squad ya still get swapped around while others don't have to rotate through. The 35th has always asked for allied ac and we have been put on Axis side for the 4th time in less than a year while other squads seam to never change sides like JG11. So what exactly is the rotaion schedule?
Now don't get me wrong we will fight as hard on axis side as we do on allied but we really shouldn't have to swap sides that often if the rotaion was fair. I can totally see the OPs point
-
How would you go about seeing that the smaller squads get propper regognition?
I hope you understand that I'm trying to help and not advocating that small squads get shafted. The point that I was trying to make is that nature of being a small squad dictates a higher risk of being shafted. My suggestions were made to help your squad minimize that risk. Quitting FSO solves nothing.
i understand youre trying to help. i also understand that as things are now, small squads dont get a fair shake. you ask how would i go about seein that small squads get proper recognition. i would quit putting them in positions to fail. i would recognize the small squads that have earned the right to be thought of as more than fodder. i would give them their due and put them in positions to succeed. instead of giving them scraps or leftovers. you said your 20 kills is more significant than our 12 kills. i understand that, bc 20 is more than 12. but, we played just as hard for those 12 kills. we fulfilled our obligation just like you guys. yet we get stuck with scraps every week. for our efforts we get nothing. its not fair at all imo.
-
vud ya only needed 4 ac to get 12 they needed 15 to get their 20 ;) lol stay small sir :devil
-
The 35th has always asked for allied ac and we have been put on Axis side for the 4th time in less than a year while other squads seam to never change sides like JG11
This is not correct concerning JG11.
Surf...more squads generally request Allies....so more squads requesting Allies get assigned Axis. JG11 requests "Axis" when their is Luftwaffe planes, and requests, "No preference" in the Pacific...so the CMs can put us where they need us.
Also...When it's JG11's turn at CiC...we assign ourselves Bombers. Have every time for 6 plus years.
-
looking at the logs JG11 hasn't flown allied for over a year. I would like to know how the rotation is worked out or even if there is one. It was my understanding that ya had to rotate through every once in a while. Is it a case though of x amount of players vrs side strength. 60/40 split 40/60 split ?????
Oh and I would like that explanation scattered smothered and covered please :devil
-
looking at the logs JG11 hasn't flown allied for over a year. I would like to know how the rotation is worked out or even if there is one. It was my understanding that ya had to rotate through every once in a while. Is it a case though of x amount of players vrs side strength. 60/40 split 40/60 split ?????
Oh and I would like that explanation scattered smothered and covered please :devil
More squads request to fly for the ally's.
Forcing us to fly allied would also force an allied squad to fly axis, is that really what you want surfinn?
-
looking at the logs JG11 hasn't flown allied for over a year. I would like to know how the rotation is worked out or even if there is one. It was my understanding that ya had to rotate through every once in a while. Is it a case though of x amount of players vrs side strength. 60/40 split 40/60 split ?????
Oh and I would like that explanation scattered smothered and covered please :devil
JG11 last was assigned Allied 12 operations ago.
Like I said...we request what we request. The CM's must give you your answer as they are the ones who split sides.
We were once a 4-7 sized squad...and took our lumps for years...and always flew the crappy jap planes and bombers and attackers. Don't you think my boys would like a corsair once in awhile, over a Zero? Damn straight we would, but gladly fill the Axis role in Pacific...hoping we are granted our request in Europe. I never take anything as a given. We fly what we are assigned, where we are assigned...that's it.
-
JG11 last was assigned Allied 12 operations ago.
Like I said...we request what we request. The CM's must give you your answer as they are the ones who split sides.
We were once a 4-7 sized squad...and took our lumps for years...and always flew the crappy jap planes and bombers and attackers. Don't you think my boys would like a corsair once in awhile, over a Zero? Damn straight we would, but gladly fill the Axis role in Pacific...hoping we are granted our request in Europe. I never take anything as a given. We fly what we are assigned, where we are assigned...that's it.
Surfinn,
This is exactly why JG-11 always flys Axis. They are willing to fill in as Japanese during PTOs so Blue Plane squads like yours have a chance to fly their USN/USMC birds. Next time you get an FM2 remember your chances of getting it went up tremendously because a couple of squads like JG-11 bite the bullet and fly Japanese without complaint.
Vuduvee,
I feel your pain almost every squad goes through the small squad experiance as far as getting overwhelmed. Even my squad knows we'll have more bad nights then good until we grow a bit. As far as bombers and sides you fly. You really do have to update your request every month or CiC will think you have no preference. :salute
-
ahh with respect sir and to put things sunny side up. We flew the Fm2s once against German iron. Every other PTO we were axis flying a6m2s, so we take our knocks and without compliant. I am just asking what are the rotaion schedules and if there is a rotaion schedule???? IF there is no rotaion schedule I'm fine with that to it would just be nice to know ahead of time.
-
"ahh with respect sir and to put things sunny side up. We flew the Fm2s once against German iron. Every other PTO we were axis flying a6m2s, so we take our knocks and without compliant. I am just asking what are the rotaion schedules and if there is a rotaion schedule???? IF there is no rotaion schedule I'm fine with that to it would just be nice to know ahead of time."
You say you didnt want to complain... :headscratch:
-
ya must have ate to much scrambled eggs with cheese if ya saw a complint in that question
-
Duxford has been in FSO for a long time. weve taken our lumps. its time small squads get our due. taking the backseat in favor of bigger but less experienced squads seems like the point you guys want me to accept. i think its unfair. im pushing for fairness in regards to small squads who want to do FSO. if not, ill have to assume we are not a valued team player and will make a case to my squaddies for ditching FSO altogether.
-
Every other PTO we were axis flying a6m2s, so we take our knocks and without compliant. I am just asking what are the rotaion schedules and if there is a rotaion schedule???? IF there is no rotaion schedule I'm fine with that to it would just be nice to know ahead of time.
As does my squad. Every squad has to fly Axis sooner or later. When there is not enough squads requesting Axis for a setup, we will assign squads that have flown the longest without being Axis. We never have a shortage of squads requesting the Allied side therefore that situation never comes up that we have to force Axis squads to Fly Allied.
-
well if that's the case shifty then why have we been put on axis side 4 times in a year when we clearly request allied. Oh and the day the request menu is up we request our side and ac preference.
Its almost like we are always ordering waffles with pecans and getting blue berries instead
-
well if that's the case shifty then why have we been put on axis side 4 times in a year when we clearly request allied. Oh and the day the request menu is up we request our side and ac preference.
Its almost like we are always ordering waffles with pecans and getting blue berries instead
We never have a shortage of squads requesting the Axis side
He meant Allied.
-
He meant Allied.
Thanks I fixed it. :lol
well if that's the case shifty then why have we been put on axis side 4 times in a year when we clearly request allied. Oh and the day the request menu is up we request our side and ac preference.
Its almost like we are always ordering waffles with pecans and getting blue berries instead
This is the second time in four months my squad had been Axis. The first time we wanted Allied and got Axis this month none of us were hot or cold on the planeset so we volunteered Axis just to get the commiment filled. But pulling Axis four times a year equals 1 out of every 3 setups you are Axis. Which is exactly what every Allied FSO squad I've ever been a member of has gone through. I expect to be Axis 1 out of every 3 setups that is why I go ahead a volunteer for it if the aircraft matchup is unimportant to my guys. You are treated no different from anybody else.
-
Vudu - My comments are to your first post.
The 325th VFG has gone up and down in its numbers over the years. And the 325th VFG is one of the original FSO squads. We had a period of time where we were so small that every week it seemed liked we got our clocks cleaned because we ran into a larger squad. Morale plummeted and the future of the squad was in question...
I didn't complain about it - I fixed the problem internally. We recruited, and we joined forces with other squads to form into a larger squad for the FSO. In time the issue corrected itself. Today the 325th VFG has only a few remaining 325th VFG pilots. The others come and go weekly and are part of the "Ironhorsemen". G3MF and the 325th VFG use to fly together until they separated and started flying by themselves. The same was true of the 35th who also flew with the 325th VFG for awhile until they took on the responsibility of being your own squad in the FSO. Internally the indpendent squads form up into their flights and form into a larger group. So squad identifiy is kept. I'd be glad to join forces with any small squad as long as we can plan, coordinate and fight as a team. No bozo's shotting down friendlies, No drunks or druggies or kids under 17 are allowed. We come to play once a week to the best of our abilities.
Over the years I have planned and helped plan more CIC missions than I can remember. Small squads aren't as effective as the larger squads in the operations, so yes the smaller squads have to get attached to other larger squads or should be in order to give them a better chance of success and survival. I also never will put a small squad in charge of a Strike Package internal to a mission I plan. Has nothing to do with personalities just the plain fact that the larger squad owns the assists. No "gets" a turn to be fair. You have and run a large squad you get put in charge and that's how I plan. And history has shown time and time again that when planners band together 4-6 small squads into a large formation they tent not to do as well as a 1-2 squad configuration of the same size. Being small has limitations, just a fact.
That being said I will assign smaller squads to the following duties - Perked AC when I need to spread limited AC to several locations. Makes more sense than splitting up a larger squad into 2 different AC types. Scouting duties as part of larger Strike Package. Keeps them close to a larger element in case they need help, and they will. Escorting packages so that the Escort Leader can detach a smaller element as needed during the fight. This gives flexibility.
Being in a small squad has limitations, just a fact. If you don't want to be small than change it, we did. But don't ask the FSO community to change anything to accommodate.
-
grate answer shifty. Now the axis should have to do the same thing, just to keep things fair I would say, especially the mega squads like JG11 and KN. Allies have squads their size that can swap out with them quarterly so why isn't it happening???? Makes me feel like I got my eggs fried when I asked for them scrambled.
And of course viper has to pipe in with a long histroy leason and a full page of BS before he actually makes his point.
-
grate answer shifty. Now the axis should have to do the same thing, just to keep things fair I would say, especially the mega squads like JG11 and KN. Allies have squads their size that can swap out with them quarterly so why isn't it happening???? Makes me feel like I got my eggs fried when I asked for them scrambled.
Are you very young Surf? Or otherwise impaired. You are not getting it. Look at what you posted.
If the CM's had to rigidly follow a certain rotation like you purpose...and had to assign a squad like JG11 Allied once a quarter....than once a quarter...4 smaller squads who want to fly Allied, will be forced Axis.
How will that help anyone here?
-
Point is that's already happening to smaller squads sir. So ya your damn right I want you guys out of your comfort zone ever once in a while.
-
Point is that's already happening to smaller squads sir. So ya your damn right I want you guys out of your comfort zone ever once in a while.
:rofl
We're getting nearer the black now.
-
how does a squad even get to be a "dedicated" axis/allied squad. It has been over a year that we where under the impression every squad had to rotate at least once a year divided by the number of squads. We thought wrong based on this misinformation, we found no rules pertaining to this unless it is represented elsewhere. When we registered as the 35th we thought we where a dedicated Allied squad. All of us have done what we have been ordered to do, mostly; but I just don't see the simplest math adding up to do with a fair rotation if it doesn't include all squads. First month this year we've been denied our requests, the math looks like it's going to repeat and this birds chirppin about it :furious :salute
-
I see and understand Vudu's frustration. I am sure that almost everyone agrees, what is the point of posting a ride preference if you dont stand a chance of getting that ride if you are a smaller squad.
In all honesty, I know that when I am CiC I do my best to be fair to everyone. I actually like to pull the smaller squads in with G3-MF because I know they will work with us and will communicate during the week leading to FSO.
The key here (in my mind) is communication in the days prior to FSO. If everyone understands the mission adn communicates leading up and through out, there is mission success so long as the mission planned is sound.
I never try to take over orders and "run" the show in our particular assigned group. But I do try to step up and put something on the table so every squad has input and something is in place for the event. I think most of you know that about me by now.
I never use smaller squads as a filler, but when first started learning about planning, I sent 3 small squads to defend a large airfield and learned a valueable lesson about the smaller squads, which I think this thread is similarily similar to. I haven't done it since.
Vudu, please don't leave FSO as not only wil we all suffer the loss, so will your squad.
I have mad respect for the 325th as they taught us FSO and took us on while we learned and built our squad around these particular events. We have become so proficient that we apply these tactics in the MAs and have driven many a sticks crazy over how we play and fight in the game.
The bottom line is please stay the course. You and Duxford are a valuable asset to the FSO community and it would ba a shame if anyone left over frustration. We stand by you completely and have respect for your squad. Don't lose sight of the fact that most of the time, it is fun. We all stil go through the BS of polotics of the game. I don't (personally) believe favorites are chosen for ride preference, however, I get mad as hell when a squad doesn;t communicate and due to that lack of comms, a mission fails or an entire squad gets taken out because someone wasn't where they were supposed to be. Sometimes, it si simple bad planning, sometimes, it is bacause we are out numbered and out classed. The one thing I preach to my squad is stay together and have fun. If the night ends early, we will meet in the MAs and take i tout on the community...
:devil
-
:rofl
We're getting nearer the black now.
Not sure what ya mean by that. Is that a I burned my chicken melt comment?
-
how does a squad even get to be a "dedicated" axis/allied squad. It has been over a year that we where under the impression every squad had to rotate at least once a year divided by the number of squads. We thought wrong based on this misinformation, we found no rules pertaining to this unless it is represented elsewhere. When we registered as the 35th we thought we where a dedicated Allied squad. All of us have done what we have been ordered to do, mostly; but I just don't see the simplest math adding up to do with a fair rotation if it doesn't include all squads. First month this year we've been denied our requests, the math looks like it's going to repeat and this birds chirppin about it :furious :salute
Agreed. As a result, we try to switch allied and axis every other month unless blue planes are at stake (pacific theater). Pacific theater, we try to stay allied when ever blue planes are at stake... We switch between both sides to be fair to others that want a switch and thought we were supposed to rotate. Is this not the right thing to do??????
-
grate answer shifty. Now the axis should have to do the same thing, just to keep things fair I would say, especially the mega squads like JG11 and KN. Allies have squads their size that can swap out with them quarterly so why isn't it happening???? Makes me feel like I got my eggs fried when I asked for them scrambled.
Because there are always more squads requesting to fly Allied then there are squads requesting to fly Axis. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, you seem more intent on looking for a conspiracy than you are looking for a straight answer.
-
Agreed. As a result, we try to switch allied and axis every other month unless blue planes are at stake (pacific theater). Pacific theater, we try to stay allied when ever blue planes are at stake... We switch between both sides to be fair to others that want a switch and thought we were supposed to rotate. Is this not the right thing to do??????
And Blue planes to G3-MF are the same as Gray planes to III/JG11.
We hope to get them and request "No Preference" Pacific...so you can get what you hope for too.
Have never complained about a side assignment and never will.
-
Vudu - My comments are to your first post.
The 325th VFG has gone up and down in its numbers over the years. And the 325th VFG is one of the original FSO squads. We had a period of time where we were so small that every week it seemed liked we got our clocks cleaned because we ran into a larger squad. Morale plummeted and the future of the squad was in question...
I didn't complain about it - I fixed the problem internally. We recruited, and we joined forces with other squads to form into a larger squad for the FSO. In time the issue corrected itself. Today the 325th VFG has only a few remaining 325th VFG pilots. The others come and go weekly and are part of the "Ironhorsemen". G3MF and the 325th VFG use to fly together until they separated and started flying by themselves. The same was true of the 35th who also flew with the 325th VFG for awhile until they took on the responsibility of being your own squad in the FSO. Internally the indpendent squads form up into their flights and form into a larger group. So squad identifiy is kept. I'd be glad to join forces with any small squad as long as we can plan, coordinate and fight as a team. No bozo's shotting down friendlies, No drunks or druggies or kids under 17 are allowed. We come to play once a week to the best of our abilities.
Over the years I have planned and helped plan more CIC missions than I can remember. Small squads aren't as effective as the larger squads in the operations, so yes the smaller squads have to get attached to other larger squads or should be in order to give them a better chance of success and survival. I also never will put a small squad in charge of a Strike Package internal to a mission I plan. Has nothing to do with personalities just the plain fact that the larger squad owns the assists. No "gets" a turn to be fair. You have and run a large squad you get put in charge and that's how I plan. And history has shown time and time again that when planners band together 4-6 small squads into a large formation they tent not to do as well as a 1-2 squad configuration of the same size. Being small has limitations, just a fact.
That being said I will assign smaller squads to the following duties - Perked AC when I need to spread limited AC to several locations. Makes more sense than splitting up a larger squad into 2 different AC types. Scouting duties as part of larger Strike Package. Keeps them close to a larger element in case they need help, and they will. Escorting packages so that the Escort Leader can detach a smaller element as needed during the fight. This gives flexibility.
Being in a small squad has limitations, just a fact. If you don't want to be small than change it, we did. But don't ask the FSO community to change anything to accommodate.
wow! so asking the CiC's to play fair and give smaller squads their fair due is basically asking the FSO community to go out of their way to accomodate? im sorry but thats crap and unfair. its more proof that smaller squads get shafted and that its common knowledge we do and perfectly acceptible to shaft us. even tho we work as hard as any one we get none of the benefits of our work. if thats not playing favorites then i dont know what is. all i wanted was to get a fair shake and its apparent that we wont get it, so ill push for us leaving FSO if its not goin to be fair.
-
Because there are always more squads requesting to fly Allied then there are squads requesting to fly Axis. This has been pointed out to you time and time again, you seem more intent on looking for a conspiracy than you are looking for a straight answer.
:noid yep you know me when I see a squad that never shifts I call it a conspiracy lol. Or wait is that a fact? Oh it is a fact that JG11 and KN only swap sides once a year while others are forced to do it quarterly. Got to say shiftty I'm surprised you flipped that waffle that way.
-
I dont know??????? Seems pretty simple to me 34 squads signed up for last nights first frame. Shouldnt be too hard to divvy em up 60%-40%. Whats the big deal. Somehow every one is supposed to keep the larger squads happy at the expense of the smaller squads????? I fail to see how this is satisfactory for the majority of FSO participants in the 7-10 and 4-6 range. Lets face it, the smaller squads are the majority here, maybe its high time that their oppinions are heard. Why give any squad a choice, mix it up each and every time, that way there is no reason to complain. It becomes a level playing field for each squad. IMO there would be much better fights and waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy less Board squeaking.
My 2 cents
Carver
-
I see and understand Vudu's frustration. I am sure that almost everyone agrees, what is the point of posting a ride preference if you dont stand a chance of getting that ride if you are a smaller squad.
In all honesty, I know that when I am CiC I do my best to be fair to everyone. I actually like to pull the smaller squads in with G3-MF because I know they will work with us and will communicate during the week leading to FSO.
The key here (in my mind) is communication in the days prior to FSO. If everyone understands the mission adn communicates leading up and through out, there is mission success so long as the mission planned is sound.
I never try to take over orders and "run" the show in our particular assigned group. But I do try to step up and put something on the table so every squad has input and something is in place for the event. I think most of you know that about me by now.
I never use smaller squads as a filler, but when first started learning about planning, I sent 3 small squads to defend a large airfield and learned a valueable lesson about the smaller squads, which I think this thread is similarily similar to. I haven't done it since.
Vudu, please don't leave FSO as not only wil we all suffer the loss, so will your squad.
I have mad respect for the 325th as they taught us FSO and took us on while we learned and built our squad around these particular events. We have become so proficient that we apply these tactics in the MAs and have driven many a sticks crazy over how we play and fight in the game.
The bottom line is please stay the course. You and Duxford are a valuable asset to the FSO community and it would ba a shame if anyone left over frustration. We stand by you completely and have respect for your squad. Don't lose sight of the fact that most of the time, it is fun. We all stil go through the BS of polotics of the game. I don't (personally) believe favorites are chosen for ride preference, however, I get mad as hell when a squad doesn;t communicate and due to that lack of comms, a mission fails or an entire squad gets taken out because someone wasn't where they were supposed to be. Sometimes, it si simple bad planning, sometimes, it is bacause we are out numbered and out classed. The one thing I preach to my squad is stay together and have fun. If the night ends early, we will meet in the MAs and take i tout on the community...
:devil
i appreciate what youre saying Slipknot. but its clear to me from these posts and one private message that small squads dont matter and neither does our opinion or requests. if more guys were like you it would be fair for everyone, but its not. ive been told to accept that, bc we are insignificant in the overall scheme and outcome. basically we are only here to prop the mega squads up to their rightful elite status.
-
grate answer shifty. Now the axis should have to do the same thing, just to keep things fair I would say, especially the mega squads like JG11 and KN. Allies have squads their size that can swap out with them quarterly so why isn't it happening???? Makes me feel like I got my eggs fried when I asked for them scrambled.
And of course viper has to pipe in with a long histroy leason and a full page of BS before he actually makes his point.
Does being bad at basic math make you ignorant, or does being ignotant make you bad at basic math?
I laugh every time you claim that KN hordes. Our 25 kills last night came from just 11 pilots, defending a V-base ALONE.
-
There is nothing in that post about your kills devil :headscratch: Oh i get it ya ate the sausage with your scrambled eggs
-
Agreed. As a result, we try to switch allied and axis every other month unless blue planes are at stake (pacific theater). Pacific theater, we try to stay allied when ever blue planes are at stake... We switch between both sides to be fair to others that want a switch and thought we were supposed to rotate. Is this not the right thing to do??????
Personally I single out no squad in particular, that's not even on my radar. I'm not sure if I missed how this rotation works out or not because I was looking at the numbers. Some get rotated and others hardly get to do it at all. I want to be that guy is all I'm saying. If it's sread out fairly then my squad should be allowed to at least feel we're Allied sticks and not have to contiually be flipping sides especially when we request otherwise. I like my choice of sides and deal with all those issues also but this is something that is simple if it's fairly carried out. Is there a ruling on this anywhere or are the big guy shootin from the hip on this one?
-
Personally I single out no squad in particular, that's not even on my radar. I'm not sure if I missed how this rotation works out or not because I was looking at the numbers. Some get rotated and others hardly get to do it done at all. I want to be that guy is all I'm saying. If it's sread out fairly then my squad should be allowed to at least feel we're Allied sticks and not have to contiually be flipping sides especially when we request otherwise. I like my choice of sides and deal with all those issues also but this is something that is simple if it's fairly carried out. Is there a ruling on this anywhere?
And this is what I can't understand from your mates Poppy. How does putting 20 more guys (III/JG11) allied, help?
That's 20 allied guys who will have to fly Axis and not want to.
-
:noid yep you know me when I see a squad that never shifts I call it a conspiracy lol. Or wait is that a fact? Oh it is a fact that JG11 and KN only swap sides once a year while others are forced to do it quarterly. Got to say shiftty I'm surprised you flipped that waffle that way.
It has never been a conspiracy.. EVER. You're just trying to make it one. Did you think it was a conspiracy when I wrote the setup Fiery Sky / Frigid Sea?
The time frame was just a month or so before the FM2 was in the Fleet Air Arm inventory. However I included it because it
balanced the setup more and because your squad's favorite ride the FM2 had been left out of setups for a while. I even made you Frame-1
CiC so you could assign yourself FM2s. I wasn't playing favorites, and I wasn't causing a conspiracy. I was doing what was right to ensure you guys got a shot
at flying your preferred ride in an FSO. You had no complaints then though did you? You want JG-11 and KN out of their comfort zone? They are in every PTO setup we run.
But hey we can force them to be Allied next setup. How about the next PTO setup they fly Corsairs or FM2s and some Navy and USMC squads get stuck in Zekes?
You complain about the Luftwaffe Squads and how they don't like you. Then you insult Viper the CO of one of the larger more organized Allied squads. You're running out of
any credit I ever gave you for being sensable. The only thing you seem to have a supply of is food analogies. I'm done trying to reason with you.
-
There is nothing in that post about your kills devil :headscratch: Oh i get it ya ate the sausage with your scrambled eggs
I gave that as an example. You imply that KN is a "mega squad" that only gets kills because "we horde". You do this in every thread where my squad in involved in a discussion. You are a one hit wonder -same damn song over and over and over...
Go play with your toys Surf. The adults are talking now.
-
Does being bad at basic math make you ignorant, or does being ignotant make you bad at basic math?
I laugh every time you claim that KN hordes. Our 25 kills last night came from just 11 pilots, defending a V-base ALONE.
20 of those kills came from 3 pilots, Im guessing it doesnt look so good for the remaining 8. And you werent even there Devil LOL
-
oh man i didn't know that thank god they have three good players;) LOL That math work for ya devil? or was it like taking to many orders on the grill>>>
-
i appreciate what youre saying Slipknot. but its clear to me from these posts and one private message that small squads dont matter and neither does our opinion or requests. if more guys were like you it would be fair for everyone, but its not. ive been told to accept that, bc we are insignificant in the overall scheme and outcome. basically we are only here to prop the mega squads up to their rightful elite status.
i've been staying out of this...and i will....except for one. thing.
ALL squads matter. including the small ones.
-
20 of those kills came from 3 pilots, Im guessing it doesnt look so good for the remaining 8. And you werent even there Devil LOL
Looks fine to me when you considder the assists. Team first, indivdual second.
I wasn't there because my gaming rig crapped out. That doesnt mean that I dont comunicate with squaddies about the event.
-
Orwell said it best in Animal Farm "All pigs are created equal, but some are more equal than others."
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Devil
-
A fair rotation is fair, I don't see the recent order of rotations as being fair. It's not about helping a squad or side it's about a fair rotation so the few having to repeat this cycle don't have to, make it fair for all FSO sticks to have to do this and then everyone has the same gripe instead of the multiple pro and cons we're debating. The percentages are the goal from what I understand, so then a squad or squads goes over each tour to fill the percentages for that tour. Next tour is then rotated to the next squad or squads and so on for the rest of the year. I just feel that a squad that's been rotated should not have to be rotated before those not having been rotated yet. Especially when it's contrary to their request. I want it fair or am I missing something that's been said on this thread.
-
Since there are more squads that like to fly Allies why in the world would anybody want squads that are dedicated Axis to fly Allies? For every dedicated Axis squad that are forced to fly Allies there's an Allied squad that's forced to fly Axis :headscratch: Now there are two unhappy squads. Hey its great if the Dedicated Axis squads get to fly there side every month, means better chance for my squad to fly Allies if we choose. They are the minority, why punish them cause there lucky and get to fly there prefered ride?
My squads motto is to have fun in FSO, that's number one rule. Some FSO's are obviously more fun than others. One thing I've learned here is that sometimes when were assigned crappy planes or a side we didn't want we end up having a better time than if we got the flashier planes. .
-
Let's look at the argument for a fair rotation. First, the parameters and assumptions.
Let's say for simplicity sake the FSO takes 200 peeps.
The scenario has a 60/40 split in favor of allies (120 allied / 80 axis)
There's 5 large squads of 20, 6 medium squads of 10, and 8 small squads of 5.
3 large squads, 4 medium squads, and 6 small squads want to be allied (130 people)
2 large squad, 2 medium squads, and 2 small squads want to be axis (70 people)
In this scenario, we need 10 people to take the side they don't want. For the first frame, 2 small squads were assigned to axis. For the second frame, a medium squad was assigned axis. And for the third frame, 2 small squads were assigned axis. If we assume the next month is similar except that the medium squads go to the side they don't want twice and 2 small squad do it once, then we end up with 4 medium squads being assigned to sides they don't want every 6th or 7th frame, and 6 of the small squads have to change to a side they don't like every 4th or 5th frame. Meanwhile, 2 each large, medium and small squads get to stay axis. If I understand correctly, this is what is not fair. Fair would be every squad changing sides (in this scenario) every other or, at best, every 3rd frame. So, in a Pacific scenario when JG11 or Kommando Nowotny is willing to fly Japanese so more allied oriented players can fly their big blue birds, fair would be to force the allied squads to fly Japanese. And in a European scenario, it's better to force everybody to spend at least half the time "out of their comfort zone" instead of the obvious solution of minimizing the number of people who are forced to change sides. Remember, to make this fit your definition of fair, every squad will be changing sides at a minimum every other or every third frame. Not month, but frame. I'm guessing you wouldn't be any happier with that setup.
I don't know what might be a solution to your discontentment, but I doubt what you are implying as a "fair" rotation would satisfy you in the long term.
Regards,
Hammer
-
OH OH :O problem , someone actualy made sence . :aok Razmataz . Hammer .
-
just to be clear, my post wasnt directed at rotation. i always understood that it was a given that every squad rotated. for me personally, i dont care what side im on as long as its fair.
-
20 of those kills came from 3 pilots, Im guessing it doesnt look so good for the remaining 8. And you werent even there Devil LOL
The fact you even bring that up speaks volumes.
Those 3 people had the opportunity to do well because they had squaddies backing them up.
-
The actual issues are being deflected from. For the purposes of a conglomerate of pilots views of what FSO PILOTS should be following as rules at this point in the thread, may as well be a kangaroo courts dictates to the rest of us not being in one of two large axis squads. That's according to what I'm reading and also in a few more private forums. There's an issue being brought out today that needs addressing by HTC directly with regard to the rotation specificly. I love this FSO, it is a rigid and challenging set up and its rules are too. It's been fun too.The issue of rotation needs a ruling that lists an order that's known and adhered to, it's that simple. Solves allot of aching. One of the original FSO guys listed above that I personally respect explained it to us a long time ago and it's more than fair, but it's not a rule we can find written anywhere today. Problem is this unwritten rule is only enforced for a select portion of participating patrons within FSO. This is why I was confused about 'some' of us getting the duty so much. It's not about who likes or dislikes rather all sharing equally those likes and dislikes. It evens out. I don't know why questionable comments replace solutions and wonder whom actually makes a decision like this for the sake of what we all have bought into through AH? All of us investing an equal share, outside those working the scenarios and such, into what we would like to enjoy in FSO should be entitled to a fair say with out the mandates, pandering or inner circle politics of a select few FSO pilots having no more authority to rule on this matter than rest of us do. They're incharge of set ups and enforcement of the rules, not making the rules other than assisting in their creation with the rest of us. The Allied rides are another issue mentioned. Rotation helps this also. Introduce some more late war rides, the sticks normally in German iron having an Allied rotation get a comparable ride to what they're used to or better and everyone suffers evenly or gets happy together. But shafting a few for the sake of some has to go, especially when they don't share the shafting equally. Allot of good suggestion by good guys where dealing with many issues today and actually cleared some things up too, but there was allot of nonsense. I don't like to bicker when it's easier to solve it but I won't be brushed aside for the sake of a group that feels they can misrepresent what AHII advertises, HTC should be in on this issue to make a decision, it's not the elephants in the arenas place to do this. This has to be HTC's call and I ask directly for his input through this reply. Vudu has a valid point and just as reasonable a solution as these guys present if these issues being brought up for remedy can't be dealt with fairly for all of us that partake in these events. We're all a part of this and personally I would hate to leave, it can always get better but it MUST be fair for this to happen. I deal with enough real world mentality with people running wild doing only what the big guys says is alright, we don't need to become that or even allow it in here. If based on principle alone, I side with Vudu's view of what's going down in here and I feel if this is the treatment the rest of us can expect to continue, then the only alternative is to leave and suggest the others in our predicament do the same, then ya's can play by yourselves and wind up restructuring the whole thing instead of just getting to a fair solution. If it comes down to business as usual and winds up remaining this way with out explanation from the man himself I'll go a step further and leave this site, IL2 was brought up over this today. I'm preparing to back my words up after reading the rhetoric displayed here today over something that shouldn't be allowed to begin with in here . . politics and bullies. When so many are saying this is getting old fast what makes the others feel we'll accept simply be ignored or told to continue as is? For the sake of us wanting to not have to stand our ground, deal with this, come to an agreement and make it a rule. Should already be written when ya think about it. The other issues can be worked out too. OMFG, rules go against my grain and ya's got me demanding one! :salute
-
Never got a side I didn't like.
Never got a ride I wasn't happy with.
All is well in the Universe. /close thread
:aok
-
Never got a side I didn't like.
Never got a ride I wasn't happy with.
All is well in the Universe. /close thread
:aok
go troll somewhere else cool guy.
-
No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get my Yak-9T to turn into an A6M.
The LCA is a 100% Axis PTO squad.
Everything else is just passing time.
FSO rocks.
Carry on :salute
-
Maybe I'm missing the issue here. Is it about rotation, plane/mission assignment, who's in charge of particular mission within a frame, or something else? My impression is that you are advocating for a system in which everybody has to change sides so that it is "fair".
If I understand what you want correctly, then in my example from earlier in this thread, the first frame would look as I described it with 120 people who requested allied flying allied, 70 people who requested axis flying axis, and 10 people who wanted to fly allied having to switch to axis to make the numbers work. Remember that in this particular scenario, the numbers called for more allied than axis. Since this is Friday Squad Operations, let's go back to squads and say 3 large squads, 4 medium squads, and 4 small squads fly allied, while 2 large squads, 2 medium squads, and 4 small squads fly axis. 2 of the small squads that are flying axis requested allied but were switched to make the numbers work. So, right now, we have 10 people, or 5%, flying for the side they didn't want to fly for.
The second frame is where your system would kick in. Two of the large squads, 2 of the medium squads, and all 4 small squads who wanted to be and were assigned to be allied have to switch to axis. Meanwhile, all of the squads who were axis in the first frame switch to allied, including the 2 squads who wanted to be allied in the first frame but were forced to switch. Now we have 150 people, or 75% of the playing population, flying for a side they don't want to.
In the third frame, it really gets complicated. Now, both large allied squads who were switched to axis get to switch back to allied but, because there is still a large allied squad who hasn't switched, that allied squad and one of the large axis squads gets switched back to axis, meaning there are two large squads "unhappy". There are still 2 medium allied squads who haven't switched, so they both go to axis, meaning there are 4 medium squads "unhappy", and all 4 of the small squads who were switched go back to axis, meaning the original 2 small squads who wanted to be allied to begin with. That puts 90 people, or 45% of the population, in the "unhappy" group.
With this system, we can see that about 1/2 of the axis squads have to stay allied for two frames so that all of the allied squads have their chance to rotate to axis once. Remembering this scenario called for more allies, than axis, these numbers could be reversed - the smaller side is the one that will have to spend more time as the other. Regardless, we haven't achieved "fair" because some squads have to be "unhappy" for 2 frames, while some are only unhappy for one. From a numbers perspective, we've managed to make 100% of the FSO population unhappy at least once during these frames, and about 50% were unhappy during 2 out of 3 frames. That doesn't bode well for the future of FSO!
The reality is that normally, when numbers are off, they are off in favor of the allies. This usually means a squad that wanted to be allied is asked to fly axis. I can't speak to what the numbers usually are, but forcing a large allied squad to swap with a large axis squad does nothing to fix the numbers discrepancy. Forcing anyone who voluntarily flies for the less populated side to fly for the most popular side makes no sense whatsoever. In the end, it will come down to asking a squad from the popular side to go to the other side. If you don't want to be in that position, make a habit of requesting the less popular side and establish yourself as a team player there.
Regards,
Hammer
-
In fairness all squads can get a period where they get hard assignments and/or not the best ride. If you genuinely feel that a set of orders is not fair to your squad you should email the CiC and request a change. Just keep it civil and explain the situation. That said we all have to do our part when getting assigned strike planes and the 2nd line aircraft. If you feel that the problem is persiting contact the FSO Team and we will have a look at it.
If you guys have any problems in FSO at all we are here to help. PM or email us anytime.
FYI my squad has had Me 410s, Ju 88s and IL-2s in the last three frames. We still had fun though.
-
I see two topics in this thread...
Squads switching (or getting switched) between Allied and Axis.
This is done either voluntarily by a squad, or by the CM Admin who designed the event to balance the side numbers according to the design of the event. As stated before, more squads want to fly Allied, so if the numbers require a shift, the CM will move a squad. I believe most of the time, it would only require a shift of one or two small squads; if a squad gets moved "an unfair" number of times, it should be addressed by the CM team.
Squads being given "crappy" rides or missions.
This is entirely a matter of the assigned squad performing their CiC duties and has nothing to do with assigning a squad to fly Allied or Axis. Some players are better at that duty than others, and like it or not, there will always be favoritism.
Edit:
I have also seen a number of posts that make it sound like squads can be moved from one side to the other from frame to frame during a 3-frame event. To my knowledge, nobody is moved during the month except in very very rare occasions.
-
I have also seen a number of posts that make it sound like squads can be moved from one side to the other from frame to frame during a 3-frame event. To my knowledge, nobody is moved during the month except in very very rare occasions.
Ah-so. Didn't realize that. Just change frames in my examples to months! :D
Regards,
Hammer
-
There ways of bringing certain thing to attention that a group or an individual feel that needs addressing , but to start with an opening line like "FSO is about who you know not what you know" and not get any positive reaction to your concern is understanding , CIC , is a group that volunteers there time to organise Fridays "FSO" and to think that a select group get preference over the rest is , BS . Instead of going down this road , the CIC group are always looking for new members give it a try and we will give you the same respect.
-
I see two topics in this thread...
Squads switching (or getting switched) between Allied and Axis.
This is done either voluntarily by a squad, or by the CM Admin who designed the event to balance the side numbers according to the design of the event. As stated before, more squads want to fly Allied, so if the numbers require a shift, the CM will move a squad. I believe most of the time, it would only require a shift of one or two small squads; if a squad gets moved "an unfair" number of times, it should be addressed by the CM team.
Squads being given "crappy" rides or missions.
This is entirely a matter of the assigned squad performing their CiC duties and has nothing to do with assigning a squad to fly Allied or Axis. Some players are better at that duty than others, and like it or not, there will always be favoritism.
Edit:
I have also seen a number of posts that make it sound like squads can be moved from one side to the other from frame to frame during a 3-frame event. To my knowledge, nobody is moved during the month except in very very rare occasions.
the 2nd part is what i was talking about. the smaller squads get these rides and assignments that are doomed to fail almost every week. even tho we perform our duties well as possible in junk rides and play hard, we still get no credit(better rides every once in a while) and are used only as "filler" as stated before, so, as stated before our contribution is "insignificant". so even tho we put as much into FSO as everyone else, we will always be second fiddle no matter what we do. no matter that we've been a part of fso for a long time, we are still used only as fodder/filler for the big squads. it seems pointless to continue FSO if we're not given our proper dues.
-
There ways of bringing certain thing to attention that a group or an individual feel that needs addressing , but to start with an opening line like "FSO is about who you know not what you know" and not get any positive reaction to your concern is understanding , CIC , is a group that volunteers there time to organise Fridays "FSO" and to think that a select group get preference over the rest is , BS . Instead of going down this road , the CIC group are always looking for new members give it a try and we will give you the same respect.
i woulda got the same answer i got here. and if you read , im not the only one. its out in the open now. it cant be hidden or covered up by using private messages.
-
AlBundy
I don't know how you feel your squad has been slighted. Last month your squad got your preferred rides 2 out of 3 frames. If you think that you got a bad deal this past frame. Talk to your CO, becuase he never updated your ride request for this month. It shows Spits as the preferred ride, and I see no Spitfires for this month event.
-
...becuase he never updated your ride request for this month. ...
Translated by whoever as "we don't care what you do with us this month" perhaps?
-
Translated by whoever as "we don't care what you do with us this month" perhaps?
Bettter translated as "It doesnt mattter if we change our preferences or not we are small and we are at the mercy of the large squads.".
-
If you have such utter apathy towards FSO participation.... Why are you still here? Surely you care enough, so you should talk to your CO. I've been in those small squads many times. In fact I think that the largest squads should be broken up into units no larger than 12. However, this entire thread is nothing but a frustrated rant.
If you're at the breaking point, quit FSO. If you're ranting, talk to your CO about ride choice and missions available.
-
Simple solution but with nearly unimaginable whining and crying,etc. Split up the big squads give them multiple missions and fill out those missions with the smaller squads. But put on your ear plugs because I think the crying and name calling would be epic loud and long! :O
-
Frankly I have a problem with those big squads... Putting some 30-40 people in one mission is way overkill. You can't divert them elsewhere. They may split up into flights on their own, but are still steamrolling anybody they find, and are still on the same mission.
I think they ought to have been divided up into A, B, C flights, etc all with separate orders in different areas.
-
In fact I think that the largest squads should be broken up into units no larger than 12.
That would certainly simplify squadron assignments if large squads were broken down and small squads were combined to form units of uniform size. OTOH, it would take away from the "Squad" part of Friday Squad Operations. If the problem is truly that massive, though, this would be a viable option to solving it. Of course, small squads are still "fillers", but that is the nature of the beast.
Regards,
Hammer
-
Krusty,
III/JG11 was assigned to defend a Vbase.
We were the only squad assigned that mission. We'll try not to accomplish it so well next time.
This thread is ridiculous. Krusty you were here when JG11 was a half dozen guys. Now we take grief because after 7 years we have grown?
I think some of these folks should take a break from FSO. Seems like nothing more than a sound whooping caused some serious butt hurt. And if you don't update your side and ride prefs...shame on you....not shame on 'Big Squads'.
-
I dont know Krusty, this being th 90th post in this thread Im seeing the diametric opposite of apathy here. This thread has generated more passion for FSO IMO. I think that the more ideas that are generated by people such as yourself into not only regognizing the problem, offering ideas to solve them, the better events such as FSO will be in the long run.
I <S> :salute you for your ideas sir.
Carver
CO
35th
-
meh, you guys can flame me all you want. i expect it any time i deal with the AH community. i found out what i wanted to find out anyway. only the big squads get good assignments and rides mostly and gets put in a situation to prosper. everyone else gets leftovers. if its accidentally our preffered ride, itll be used as proof of fairness if it comes up. and yes krusty, i cared enough about FSO to voice my opinion. i think its unfair, too bad if you dont like it. like i said, i found out what i suspected and people here confirmed it. thats all i needed to know.
-
Why is the thread rediculous Stampf, because you stand to be subject to the same rules that apply to smaller squads?????? Its already been pretty much established here that updating your squad info has no real bearing as to which side you may be assigned to or.... what ride you will be given. Oh but wait.........thats only for the "Filler" squads as some of you so elequently called the smaller squads. We were even called bait........ though we are flying Axis this frame(not requested) and we are supposed to feel respected by this type of attitude??????????? See the problem yet Stampf??????????????? Im not here for your or anybody elses amusement. I and my squad make the sacrifices and get placed where needed (filler) for the good of the FSO community (4 times in the past 12 months) Most if not all small squads also make this sacrifice. What is your squad sacrificing for the FSO community?????? (0 side switches in 12 months) Again Ill ask See the problem yet????????? These small squads are enhancing your FSO experience. They are continually asked to be flexible at the cost of your inflexibility. Again Ill ask Stampf..........DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM YET? I and many others do!!!!!!!!
-
Reading Comprehension...it's so underrated these days. You're right. From now on I'll request Allied in the Pacific.
:bhead
Out.
-
only the big squads get good assignments and rides mostly and gets put in a situation to prosper. everyone else gets leftovers. if its accidentally our preferred ride, itll be used as proof of fairness if it comes up.
:rolleyes: Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. :confused:
What do you consider to be a good assignment? Do you want show your squads supreme ability by defending a base by yourself while being outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1. I think not, besides because that you are a very small squad, it's against the rules. You offer only vague complaints about how unfair you're being treated and no specific solutions.
I also suspect that you have never been a CiC before. Step into those shoes in two weeks when it's your squads turn and see how they fit.
-
Ignored the first time I'll try again-- more fleshed out! Split the biggies into wings spread them around and fill with other groups. The big squads still have numbers just spread out in various missions. It might pan out that it could be rotated between large squads so they still get to be the" Lee Malory big wing" on some fso nights. :salute
-
... I and my squad make the sacrifices and get placed where needed (filler) for the good of the FSO community (4 times in the past 12 months) Most if not all small squads also make this sacrifice. What is your squad sacrificing for the FSO community?????? (0 side switches in 12 months) ...
I don't know the answer to this, so I'll ask. Has any squad ever had to be switched from the axis side because not enough people requested allied? I'm guessing the answer is no or, at the most, very rarely.
While I understand your frustration, I don't see how making a large axis squad change to allies solves anything. It would only mean that more people who wanted to fly allied would have to fly axis and do it more often. If the issue is that on the rare occasions you end up on the axis side you don't get the best axis rides, maybe it's because you don't fly axis enough to be known by the axis commanders. I mean, when the new kid shows up to your pick-up game and says "hi, I want to be the quarterback", do you go with that or go with who you know?
If you don't want to switch sides and you want to become known so you can get better rides, do what Stampf did 7 years ago: dedicate your squad to the axis side and stay there. It's not always fun - the allies often have the advantage. He went through the same tribulations you are going through with ride assignments. However, he never had to change sides and has built his squad into one that is known for flying German fighters and flying them well.
Regards,
Hammer
-
From now on I'll request Allied in the Pacific.
Yay! I hate flying Japanese planes! :bolt:
-
:rolleyes: Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. :confused:
What do you consider to be a good assignment? Do you want show your squads supreme ability by defending a base by yourself while being outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1. I think not, besides because that you are a very small squad, it's against the rules. You offer only vague complaints about how unfair you're being treated and no specific solutions.
I also suspect that you have never been a CiC before. Step into those shoes in two weeks when it's your squads turn and see how they fit.
a good assignment would be using as us more than just a filler. as it stands, we get put with a larger group. that larger group assigns the targets to its members, which means we get mop up duties. which means we are tail end charlie, which means we are generally the first to die, as fodder. and just so you know, in case you didnt see, in this thread its been ackowledged that smaller squads are not given lead, and that since we are small our contributions are insignificant. its been acknowledged that the bigger squads are more valued and that if we want better, we have to get bigger. even tho we put just as much into it as everyone else. like i said earlier, i found out how the FSO seems to be and im pushing within my squad for Duxford to abandon FSO altogether. you guys can have it. adios
-
I was under the impression that allied was the more popular side during pacific setups.
-
FSO runs 3 times per month 12 months of the year. We can't go to a registration system like scenarios and have uniform sized 12-16 player squads it would be too cumbersome. So we are left with having to use the system we do. To get players involved in the #s we do we have to allow both large and small squads in the event. There are going to be imperfections to this system as well. Yes smaller squads acting together do not get the cohesion that a single large squad does. That's just the way it is and we can't do anything about that past suggesting you try your best to coordinate with other units.
As for the so-called crappy rides those should be shared with all the squads. For the record I am in a small squad (4-6) and have been for some time, and I don't feel we have been abused in either assignments or rides compared to anybody else in FSO. I do remind players that there are no guarantees when it comes to either preffered rides or requested rides in FSO. Like I said in my previous post if you feel you have a case to be made to the frame CiC then contact them. Find out who your partnered with and contact them so as to get an idea on tactics. Have some patience and the worm will turn it always does.
-
Ignored the first time I'll try again-- more fleshed out! Split the biggies into wings spread them around and fill with other groups. The big squads still have numbers just spread out in various missions. It might pan out that it could be rotated between large squads so they still get to be the" Lee Malory big wing" on some fso nights. :salute
What problem does this solve? If the planners want 15 planes on station defending a base or bombing a base or escorting bombers, what does a mixed organization do for you besides disrupting unit cohesion that a larger squad has built flying together? I guess I still don't understand the basic problem we are trying to solve. I've seen solutions in the form of
1. requiring all squads to rotate between axis and allied, even if we only need a few from allied to go to axis every time
2. breaking up large squads and making them operate in areas away from each other (kind of defeats the whole "Friday Squad Ops" and makes it more in line with the scenarios IMHO)
3. Split up the large squads, put them on multiple missions, and fill in those missions with small squads
2 & 3 seem closely related, but I'm not sure what problem they are trying to solve. I kind of get the issue #1 is trying to solve, but the logic of that solution escapes me.
Regards,
Hammer
-
The large squads run as squads. They do not want to be split up and that's not going to happen. Mandating that is a non-starter and is anathema to the entire concept of FSO.
-
its been acknowledged that the bigger squads are more valued
Where has that been stated?
-
What is the definition of a biggie squad and what would be the point of splitting them up? Its Friday SQUAD Operations correct? My squaddies are my friends and I like flying with them. Don't know if {The GunFighters} are considered a big squad or not, but were not dividing up and flying in different area's. We normally have 12-15 guys on so we usually do divide into two smaller elements, but were still flying together. Otherwise we should change the name from Friday Squad Operation to Friday Group of Guys flying Operation.
We started as a small squad and sometimes it was rough at first. When your a 4-6 squad and your minimum is 2 the smaller squad needs to fly with a larger squad, not because a smaller squad doesn't have anything to offer. But it gives a smaller squad protection with having a few more numbers and the larger squads get a lift by having more numbers. Its a win win for both size squads. I believe it was Slipknot that said the key is "Comunication" before the event works great and brings all squads big and small into a plan that all squads involved can be part of.
As far as gettign assigned rides, well that's on the CIC. When ever I did CIC I always tried to give preference to the squads requested ride and give them what they asked for. Sometimes its just not possible cause of the event restrictions
The GunFightes did request Axis this month and we got Allies to answere the question if any squad that requested Axis didn't get it. We're kool with it and are having a blast so far.
Raz299
-
...that larger group assigns the targets to its members, which means we get mop up duties. which means we are tail end charlie, which means we are generally the first to die, as fodder....
Now you're talking group dynamics. I can't talk to any specific situation, but it still comes down the the "new guy" wanting to play quarterback as far as the larger squad is concerned. I get that. I don't see where any of the solutions talked about so far would solve that, but I understand that issue.
How about requesting that smaller squad COs have the opportunity to run mixed missions? It would require the cooperation of the larger group and, from an efficiency standpoint doesn't make a lot of sense, but that at least directly addresses a specific issue you have identified.
Regards,
Hammer
-
The GunFightes did request Axis this month and we got Allies to answere the question if any squad that requested Axis didn't get it. We're kool with it and are having a blast so far.
Thanks. So now my question is did vuduvee's squad request axis and get allies, or the other way around? I've been going on the assumption they requested allied and got axis, but apparently could be wrong (don't tell my wife!).
Regards,
Hammer
-
...that larger group assigns the targets to its members, which means we get mop up duties. which means we are tail end charlie, which means we are generally the first to die, as fodder. and just so you know, in case you didnt see, in this thread its been ackowledged that smaller squads are not given lead, and that since we are small our contributions are insignificant.
Ah...now we are getting somewhere. I now see your point. It may be true that you feel undervalued if you feel you are basically clean up. However that is not an unimportant role, you get to make sure that the job is done.
I have several times assigned smaller squads as lead in a group during the many times I have been a CiC. I did it not only because of their reputation for getting a job done, but more importantly becuase they communicated well with others no matter what their role was. As I was exposed to this, it gave me more confidence in their abilities when I was a CiC. Perhaps this is a problem not only with your squadron, but of others also.
-
1. requiring all squads to rotate between axis and allied, even if we only need a few from allied to go to axis every time
2 and 3 dont address the problem IMO either Hammer, however 1 has definite possibilties and appeals to my senses. Every squads enters the "race" with same starting line and with the same finish line. so to speak. Each month sides get split up. Sometimes you will be axis, sometimes you will be allied. Sometimes your in your comfort zone, and at other times your not, but you know that every other squad is in the same boat. Everybody gets to learn a new plane at some point during the year, your rivals last month are you escorts this month. Im a firm believer in community and inclusion, and have faith that this will lead to a stronger larger more vibrant FSO community, instead of an exclusive unhappy one.
-
Ah-so. Didn't realize that. Just change frames in my examples to months! :D
Regards,
Hammer
Thank you Dot and hammer!!! Now this is progress that deals directly with a problem in case anyone over looked it. Hammer based what he has been saying on the wrong info. It's feasible now to have a fair rotation when the proper numbers/month/year are calculated. The possibility this issue can be taken care of is now available if anyone cares to solve one. Let's stick to the issues please, our exploits in game being posted here are a deflecting from this. Then deal with the next issue. Replace your roars with cures. Again Dot, thank you :salute, with one comment you have cleared up a miscalculation that shows the way to a fix. Hammer, how does a rotation work out now? Should be fair right? And it can be done without splitting up large squads too, yes? So the big squads know, I have no desire to see what your squads earned taken away or split up or anything like that; especially when it's clear now that a solution is available. I want it fair, that's all. I care that the big guys don't get shafted too. Maybe though because those big squads are so big they may wind up getting the duty more or as often as those of us flailing about that now. That would be as unfair as what's happening to the small squads. Strictly for the sake of rotation would it be fair to split up any squad? What can we do about this? This is what my focus is on now, so it's fair for anyone entering into FSO. We need to work on the solution, it's not right that we're split about this so lets get to a cure. What does HighTech have to say, anyone ask em? Can we get a bottom liner in on this debate and work this out with him before next scenario? He is the final word I believe so let's ask em :salute
-
2 and 3 dont address the problem IMO either Hammer, however 1 has definite possibilties and appeals to my senses. Every squads enters the "race" with same starting line and with the same finish line. so to speak. Each month sides get split up. Sometimes you will be axis, sometimes you will be allied. Sometimes your in your comfort zone, and at other times your not, but you know that every other squad is in the same boat. Everybody gets to learn a new plane at some point during the year, your rivals last month are you escorts this month. Im a firm believer in community and inclusion, and have faith that this will lead to a stronger larger more vibrant FSO community, instead of an exclusive unhappy one.
I'm still not sure what problem we are trying to solve. To me, the solution of random assignments of sides would only exacerbate any existing problem because you would constantly be flying with people you didn't know. I can't talk from the allied perspective, but I know from listening to our CO talk that he has a good feel for the other dedicated axis squads. While I agree taking that away would level the playing field, it levels it at the basement and never allows the community you mention to gain any cohesiveness because it is constantly being reshuffled. That solution is akin to telling all kids they have to go to a new school every time a new student comes in so that the new kid doesn't have to feel like the new kid.
You mention people would "get to learn a new plane" without any consideration of whether people want to do so. I joined JG11 for the immersion of flying German planes with wingmen in German planes. That is what we do all the time both in FSO and in the main arena. After almost 18 years of playing Air Warrior and then Aces High, it added a new element to the game that has helped keep me interested.
I'm not saying that if the sides were skewed to axis and our squad was asked to go allied, I wouldn't do it because I would gladly do so. But I do so secure in the knowledge that, usually, axis squads get to stay axis. Is that fair to the squads that want to fly allies all the time? Sure it is. It's a choice made by those squads to request the side they know usually has to move some people to the other side. The only thing that needs to be fair is the rotation system for asking squads to change from the high number side to the low number side. Same thing with the axis side.
The gunfighters requested axis this last time and did not get it. I would expect them to get it next month if they asked for it again. If not, they would have the beginnings of an argument about fairness. We would then have to talk about squads dedicated to one side or another who ask to switch just because they think one side has a better plane set for that scenario or whatever (absolutely not saying this is what the Gunfighters did... just giving an example of considerations) and what was fair in that regard, but those are rules and precedents which could be laid out. Does a dedicated allied or axis squad have priority to stay axis or allied? Questions like that.
Bottom line, I guess, is that we would have to agree to disagree on how useful the forced rotation would be. My belief is it would ultimately drive more people away than it would attract.
Here's another possibility - why don't a few of the small squads join together for FSO purposes? Three or four 4 - 5 man squads who feel the same way could form a nice squadron with each of the elements acting as a division within the squadron. It might be more fun that way, too. Just a thought.
Regards,
Hammer
-
...Hammer, how does a rotation work out now? ...
You now have 5% of the population unhappy for the first 4 months, 75% unhappy for the next 4 months, and 45% unhappy for the last 4 months. That averages out to almost 1/2 the people unhappy all of the time. Not a good way to run an event!
Regards,
Hammer
-
That solution is akin to telling all kids they have to go to a new school every time a new student comes in so that the new kid doesn't have to feel like the new kid.
This happens to smaller squads forced to switch from their intended side up to 4 times per year
You mention people would "get to learn a new plane" without any consideration of whether people want to do so. I joined JG11 for the immersion of flying German planes with wingmen in German planes.
Do you think that I or any other allied pilot at the time wants to learn how to fly the P39 the P40 the Hurri1, yet time after time you keep your usual ride.
The gunfighters requested axis this last time and did not get it.
We requested Allies, and got Axis so............ what gives here.
dedicated axis squads
I keep hearing this statement, unfortunately for the Allies as far as I have been able to tell there are no "dedicated Allied Squads" Im sure there would be if able. Its a luxery we dont have
-
That solution is akin to telling all kids they have to go to a new school every time a new student comes in so that the new kid doesn't have to feel like the new kid.
This happens to smaller squads forced to switch from their intended side up to 4 times per year
You mention people would "get to learn a new plane" without any consideration of whether people want to do so. I joined JG11 for the immersion of flying German planes with wingmen in German planes.
Do you think that I or any other allied pilot at the time wants to learn how to fly the P39 the P40 the Hurri1, yet time after time you keep your usual ride.
The gunfighters requested axis this last time and did not get it.
We requested Allies, and got Axis so............ what gives here.
dedicated axis squads
I keep hearing this statement, unfortunately for the Allies as far as I have been able to tell there are no "dedicated Allied Squads" Im sure there would be if able. Its a luxery we dont have
Allied is a very popular side. Dedicated allied sides are there but since there are more of them they get put on axis more often. KN has flown allied a couple times once by choice and once because we had to.
If allied is popular on a certain setup then people may have to fly axis who would not want to. I am trying to think of an instance when axis is the popular side.
-
I don't know the answer to this, so I'll ask. Has any squad ever had to be switched from the axis side because not enough people requested allied? I'm guessing the answer is no or, at the most, very rarely.
While I understand your frustration, I don't see how making a large axis squad change to allies solves anything. It would only mean that more people who wanted to fly allied would have to fly axis and do it more often. If the issue is that on the rare occasions you end up on the axis side you don't get the best axis rides, maybe it's because you don't fly axis enough to be known by the axis commanders. I mean, when the new kid shows up to your pickup game and says "hi, I want to be the quarterback", do you go with that or go with who you know?
If you don't want to switch sides and you want to become known so you can get better rides, do what Stampf did 7 years ago: dedicate your squad to the axis side and stay there. It's not always fun - the allies often have the advantage. He went through the same tribulations you are going through with ride assignments. However, he never had to change sides and has built his squad into one that is known for flying German fighters and flying them well.
Regards,
Hammer
Rotation is not about the dedicated squads, rides, assignments, personalities being happy or not or even about sides; it's about everyone rotating no matter what . . fairly. Through out this entire thread things are said dealing with everything around the problem. So what if a squad is big or small, your insisting that because a squad is big they should be exempt from what the other squads have to do. That's their problem theyre so big but they've made it ours, the little squads. ImaDot pointed out the mistake that the calculation was based on weekly instead of monthly for side assignments, we can do something about it now, but at the same time it's got to be fair for all squads so lets put together a rotation schedule that works for all of us. Hammer, you did the math but at an accelerated schedule. For the sake of getting to a fair rotation schedule would you mind doing a cursory schedule using the correct formula for it, not who's happy or not, then maybe we can understand that clearly enough and get to work on the next part of making it fair, not only for the small squads but the big ones too. As it is now it's only fair to the big squads. The guys in the big squads may not fully understand our frustration because they haven't had to repeatedly do what we're squeeking about. If we were to simply make a schedule then the big squads may be in our shoes and that's just as unfair to them as it is to us now, so let's stick to the issue. I think this is the end of the beginning because we're starting to get the meat of this problem after peeling away the layers of BS. :salute
-
go troll somewhere else cool guy.
Tsk tsk. Troll? Goodness me! Simple statement of fact.
Thread probably stopped serving any useful purpose when the personal attacks started. The CMs have made a statement on the issue. What more should happen?
FSO is a pleasant iteration of Aces High. About once a year on average there is some kind of blow up. People come and go all the time.
No point to this thread anymore
Your's Cooly :cool:
:) :lol
-
That solution is akin to telling all kids they have to go to a new school every time a new student comes in so that the new kid doesn't have to feel like the new kid.
This happens to smaller squads forced to switch from their intended side up to 4 times per year
Yes and, because you don't like it, you want everybody else to do it, too. I understand the feeling that this would level the playing field but, as I said earlier, that level would be near the bottom rather than letting the FSO community continue to grow. Remember, you guys literally are the new guys. There are squads that have been doing this for much longer and they already have the community. Just like breaking into any new group, it takes time. And as for having to do it up to 4 times per year, the system you are advocating would increase that to at least 6 times per year, and possibly as many as 8 times a year for some small squads who had originally asked to be on the low number side to begin with! Again, my suggestion would be to combine with some other small squads.
You mention people would "get to learn a new plane" without any consideration of whether people want to do so. I joined JG11 for the immersion of flying German planes with wingmen in German planes.
Do you think that I or any other allied pilot at the time wants to learn how to fly the P39 the P40 the Hurri1, yet time after time you keep your usual ride.
Your squad chooses to request allies. Along with allies comes a wide variety of aircraft. It's a choice you make freely. You can also choose axis, or you can choose not to participate. We have the same choices. We choose to stay axis no matter what the circumstance unless asked to change sides. When a pacific plane set comes up, we (JG11) stay axis so more allied players can stay allied. You don't really think we'd rather fly zeroes than corsairs, do you?
The gunfighters requested axis this last time and did not get it.
We requested Allies, and got Axis so............ what gives here.
You'd have to ask one of the CMs on that one but my guess would be they didn't need a squad as large as the gunfighters to change sides. Looking at the logs, each side had about the same number of squads in the 15 - 20 range. Were I a CM (and I'm not!), that would likely be one of the things I would look at for balancing sides.
dedicated axis squads
I keep hearing this statement, unfortunately for the Allies as far as I have been able to tell there are no "dedicated Allied Squads" Im sure there would be if able. Its a luxery we dont have
I'm sure there are many squads who consider themselves dedicated allied squads but recognize the reality that side balancing must occur. IMO, it's making sure the side balancing is done with consideration for the affected squads, not making sure that all squads are affected. Making squads on the low numbered side, who requested to be on the low number side, switch to the high number side at the expense of a squad that wanted to be on the high number side just makes no sense to me.
Regards,
Hammer
-
:noid yep you know me when I see a squad that never shifts I call it a conspiracy lol. Or wait is that a fact? Oh it is a fact that JG11 and KN only swap sides once a year while others are forced to do it quarterly. Got to say shiftty I'm surprised you flipped that waffle that way.
I recall that one time we flew Allies. Bad news though, we requested Allies.
Apart from all the grammatical errors, spelling errors, and strong lack of logic from a lot of posters in this thread; There is only one thing that bothers me: Ignorance. It is so ignorant to wonder why Allied Squads have to fly axis sometimes. Do you really not understand it? Ask yourself this question, "What side do I want to fly this month?" 75% of FSO attendants are going to answer "Allied." Let's say there are 40 total squads in FSO (for sake of less confusion let all the squads have 10 pilots), the setup calls for a 50/50 split. Now total we have 400 pilots. They have to be split 50/50 so 200 will fly Axis, 200 will fly Allied. If 30 squads request Allied and 10 request Axis (30+10=40) not everyone can get what they want. Some of those squadrons that requested Allied will be forced to fly Axis (10 exactly). The ONLY reason why this has to happen is because the setup calls for 50/50 split (hypothetically 200 vs. 200). If everyone was able to fly the side they wanted it would be 30 Allied squads vs 10 Axis squads (in this hypothetical situation). That is a 75/25 split (300/100) and the event will be crap. Axis would still win mind you, because JG 11, KN, LCA, and 9GIAP are uber sauce and get what they want.
So the only reason why Allied requestees are forced to fly Axis is because not enough squads request Axis. Fortunately there are some "dedicated Axis Squads" like JG 11, Kommando Nowotny, JG 54, and JG 2 that will always fly Axis (ETO, MTO). So at least those squads (JG 11, KN, JG 54, and JG 2) will always be happy because we never have to worry about Axis being too popular. There are some great and dedicated Allied Squads. I consider G3-MF, 325th, Nightmares, 49th, 35th, etc. all Allied squads. Unfortunately for those guys, Allied is popular (always) and sometimes they must fly Axis for balance reasons. Every month more squads request Allied than Axis. This is why you never see KN or JG 11 on Allied. We actually prefer to fly the Luftwaffe and IJN, IJAAF aircraft over the British, American, and Soviet aircraft. Of all the squadrons in FSO, there are very few that feel that way. KN happens to be one of them.
-
A much as I hate to say it, I think we are seeing a manifestation of "Misery loves company".
Regards,
Hammer
-
this is an odd thread really - since there is an accusation with no substantial proof to back any claim, a fundamental lack in finding a solution to the perceive problem, and finally a steadfast refusal to see reason in any of the answers given.
“To the man who is afraid everything rustles.” Sophocles
-
meh, you guys can flame me all you want.
Ironic considering in response to Dantoo's post
Never got a side I didn't like.
Never got a ride I wasn't happy with.
All is well in the Universe. /close thread
Thumbs UP!
you said
go troll somewhere else cool guy.
Last Friday was the first time in four years of flying FSO with 9GIAP that we actually had or historic ride, the LA5fn. We are a smallish squad and have fun with whatever ride we get, we circumnavigate tough calls with good planning within our mission parameters, fly disciplined and most of us land most of the time. Dantoo's post was no troll but merely stating it how it is, we have fun no matter what and try to use our heads when things look grim. <S> Sir please think about this and maybe ask yourself what you could do different to make it more enjoyable for your selves as we all hate to lose an FSO squad.
-
The large squads run as squads. They do not want to be split up and that's not going to happen. Mandating that is a non-starter and is anathema to the entire concept of FSO.
Proving the point that large squads do indeed get pref. treatment in consideration of what they want, etc. Because they don't wana do it, really! I get they want to be together/cohesion/effectiveness/etc. But anathema to the concept ,gota call foul on that. You still score totals as your group, you still have missions, you still fly with some of your squadies, and you still fly with unknowns and you only have to do this split sometimes not all the time. Solves the issue of small squads not getting the hot ships/missions because of big squads and lets the big squads learn/teach as well. Does nothing for allied/axis rotations of course. :aok
-
Proving the point that large squads do indeed get pref. treatment in consideration of what they want, etc. Because they don't wana do it, really! I get they want to be together/cohesion/effectiveness/etc. But anathema to the concept ,gota call foul on that. You still score totals as your group, you still have missions, you still fly with some of your squadies, and you still fly with unknowns and you only have to do this split sometimes not all the time. Solves the issue of small squads not getting the hot ships/missions because of big squads and lets the big squads learn/teach as well. Does nothing for allied/axis rotations of course. :aok
Where are you guys getting the smaller squads get treated with less respect than larger ones? In fact there are 28 small squads squadrons operating in the FSO. So far it is two of these squadrons complaining. One failed to update its ride request so getting bombers is more your own fault than it was the CiCs. The other squad is upset because it had to fly Axis and wants to implement a plan where they would end up flying Axis more. This would also effect the other 26 small squads that are not complaining and all the other medium and large squads as well. Its like tearing the bottom out of a sinking ship so the water will drain. Except for a couple of years in a large squad every FSO squad I've been in has been less than 10. We may not have always got the exact plane we wanted but we got good planes. You would have less to complain about if you took the time to update your side and ride request and communicate with the other squadrons for whatever side you're flying with. Your squadron's success is your responsibility not the responsibility of everybody else.
-
Stampf, you misunderstand me.
Please bear in mind I'm not lumping myself in with the folks whining that they don't get the ride they want.
What I'm saying is that I have personally observed that the entire FSO frame can be heavily unbalanced by a big land-slide of cons steamrolling smaller ones. This happens primarily when a mega-skwad is in play. Be it on our side or on "their" side, either way it's almost always a massacre no matter what the mission is.
Numbers make a big differenec, regardless of whatever the ride or mission is.
You can't put 30 players on a mission and hope to have a fair and balanced mission on the other side. They simply can't afford 30 players to counter it, and furthermore don't know when and where said mega squad will be used.
Break them up. I know you've built your squad from a small handful into what you have today, and that's a good thing. I'm not saying you don't have the rights of any other squad in FSO. I'm not saying you get preferential treatment. I am just saying when the skies are full of a single group, no matter what side or what mission or what plane, it's detrimental to the FSO experience overall. So, say it's not a hard-limit at 12 players. Say it's an arbitrary number in the range of 12-20 players. If you have enough players to field 2 squadrons inside this range, you ought to make a "flight A" and a "flight B" -- just so that organizationally you can be dispersed around the map better.
I know it's not going to be a popular request among the few squadrons that would actually be affected, but frankly I think it would be a good idea.
-
Its like tearing the bottom out of a sinking ship so the water will drain.
This is the best analogy Ive ever heard. :rofl
Also, I agree with the rest of what you said.
-
Never got a side I didn't like.
Never got a ride I wasn't happy with.
All is well in the Universe. /close thread
:aok
Ya know I couldn't agree with this more. And I always thought you were pretty cool too. :D :salute Dantoo
I've been reading this thread and it's left me shaking my head. All this griping about what plane you get or what side you're on. Really Vudu? It's FSO. There's nobody here that's gotten the side or plane they asked for each and every frame or even most of the time. That's just crazy to think it's so and the facts don't support it. I can also say to not only you but anyone else that if you're THAT hung up on what you're flying or what side you're flying on you're probably wrong for FSO. It's about teamwork and the mission here--nothing else. You should be able to carry that out using any plane in the inventory. I've flown frames in Tempests and gotten killed. I've flown some in Stukas and lived. Go figure. In the MA I fly with a bunch of P-38 whackos (myself included) but welcome the oppurtunity to fly something different for a different purpose. Christ it's three nights a month!
I can talk to this because I've been doing this flying in events thing a long, long time going back into Air Warrior and I've been a squad leader in FSO for many a year and side CO for many a frame. As CO I'd take the smaller squads and assign them together in effect making one bigger squad. Putting too many together creates problems of it's own--usually of communication and command. It is what it is dude. Ya just can't make a 12 plane squad out of a 4 plane squad. You can't assign a 4 plane group to do the job of a 12 plane group. The frame objectives pretty much dictate what has to happen insofar as the missions go. To think otherwise, like there's some big conspiracy in order to get "recognition", is just silly. As one of the XOs for my squad I get the objectives and orders every week and this is pretty much what I'm seeing from the other COs too. My old squad, The Damned, dates back to AW and was once like the Borg. It ebbed and flowed and finally I had to pull the plug on our FSO participation because it came down to myself and another guy, maybe a third week in and week out. We didn't get the high value assignments and understandably (for us anyway) so because of it. There were weeks when I had something going on in RL that nobody showed. I knew having been frame CO what a PITA it is to plan a frame let alone have to deal with one of the smaller squads that is just about a no-show leaving a gaping hole in your plan as the frame is starting. I couldn't let us, with all our history, be that guy--so I folded the squad in FSO. It sucked, but it was the right thing to do. But ya know, when we were the big squad, I don't remember having any special influence as to which side or what we were flying. We got what we got like everyone else and looked forward to the next frame.
Problem solved tho. Those of us that wanted to keep flying in FSO found another squad. It just so happened the 412th was going through a similar problem at the time and needed some extra bodies. So we joined with them. But ya know what? They're still just a medium sized squad and month to month we take whatever side we get and fly whatever plane and mission we're assigned and we always have a good time--which I thought was the idea. Straighten me out on that if I've got it wrong.
Perhaps if some of you guys are flying in a 4 guy squad you might consider banding together if only just for FSO. It's fun flying with guys from other squads that you might not otherwise fly with. Even your hated enemas sometimes. :salute
-
Where are you guys getting the smaller squads get treated with less respect than larger ones? In fact there are 28 small squads squadrons operating in the FSO. So far it is two of these squadrons complaining. One failed to update its ride request so getting bombers is more your own fault than it was the CiCs. The other squad is upset because it had to fly Axis and wants to implement a plan where they would end up flying Axis more. This would also effect the other 26 small squads that are not complaining and all the other medium and large squads as well. Its like tearing the bottom out of a sinking ship so the water will drain. Except for a couple of years in a large squad every FSO squad I've been in has been less than 10. We may not have always got the exact plane we wanted but we got good planes. You would have less to complain about if you took the time to update your side and ride request and communicate with the other squadrons for whatever side you're flying with. Your squadron's success is your responsibility not the responsibility of everybody else.
I'm just stirring the pot to keep the ideas flowing. There are 9 pages so far and I would think whether real or percieved the issues are best served when talked out. By the way I personally have little issue with any of this I just think discussion is benificial. I fly in a small squad and we do as instructed. :salute
-
Stampf, you misunderstand me.
Please bear in mind I'm not lumping myself in with the folks whining that they don't get the ride they want.
What I'm saying is that I have personally observed that the entire FSO frame can be heavily unbalanced by a big land-slide of cons steamrolling smaller ones. This happens primarily when a mega-skwad is in play. Be it on our side or on "their" side, either way it's almost always a massacre no matter what the mission is.
Numbers make a big differenec, regardless of whatever the ride or mission is.
You can't put 30 players on a mission and hope to have a fair and balanced mission on the other side. They simply can't afford 30 players to counter it, and furthermore don't know when and where said mega squad will be used.
Break them up. I know you've built your squad from a small handful into what you have today, and that's a good thing. I'm not saying you don't have the rights of any other squad in FSO. I'm not saying you get preferential treatment. I am just saying when the skies are full of a single group, no matter what side or what mission or what plane, it's detrimental to the FSO experience overall. So, say it's not a hard-limit at 12 players. Say it's an arbitrary number in the range of 12-20 players. If you have enough players to field 2 squadrons inside this range, you ought to make a "flight A" and a "flight B" -- just so that organizationally you can be dispersed around the map better.
I know it's not going to be a popular request among the few squadrons that would actually be affected, but frankly I think it would be a good idea.
Using similar logic I would say making the smaller squads band together to form medium size squads would be beneficial. But forcing your idea or mine would take freedom of choosing who they fly with away from squads. Not good.
-
Hopper, that doesn't seem to work, in practice. More times than not when you combine smaller groups it leads to delays, breakdowns in communication, or bad timing getting them together, just to form up to get the job done. Meanwhile all the larger groups have forged on without them.
For example, I can recall many times when USMC was low on numbers and tasked to joint duty with another squad. The two of us together both didn't equal the forces we had to defend against, or attack, or whatever. However, we had to work much harder just to coordinate (especially if there are rendezvous points, taking off from different fields, or any other number of bottlenecks).
-
Hopper, that doesn't seem to work, in practice. More times than not when you combine smaller groups it leads to delays, breakdowns in communication, or bad timing getting them together, just to form up to get the job done. Meanwhile all the larger groups have forged on without them.
For example, I can recall many times when USMC was low on numbers and tasked to joint duty with another squad. The two of us together both didn't equal the forces we had to defend against, or attack, or whatever. However, we had to work much harder just to coordinate (especially if there are rendezvous points, taking off from different fields, or any other number of bottlenecks).
Not if you were 1 squad instead of 2, was my point. Basically you are forcing larger squads to break into 2 smaller squads for ease of orders, why not take 2 smaller squads and force them into 1 squad for ease of orders? Why not, because we show up on Friday nights to fly with our friends and we chose not to and honestly I doubt you would see a difference in either scenario.
-
FATE squad has been in FSO for about 10 years until recently. Started out as a medium squad and had to adjust down to a smaller squad. It was a struggle even then to maintain our numbers so we had an invite from the 412th to blend ours with them and another squad and it has worked out well for all of us so that we can maintain our pilot committment. As CO of FATE we took whatever ride we were given and gave it our best to accomplish our mission. Last week the 412th was given the IL2. Frankly, I really dont like it that much but you suck it up and do your best regardless. The boss came up with a great plan to get us in there. We still got knocked around a bit but we did the best we could.
I'm not adding anything new to this conversation. Sometimes ya got to blow off a little steam and that's ok. Focus a bit more on the positives from the folks who have been doing this for awhile and throw out the personal attacks if you can. If you truly believe that this event leans heavily on cronyism then I fear you will find no joy in spending your Friday nights with what I deem to be some great people, and yes a few jerks sprinkled in. Almost like real life, really. We all make our own path in this world. Whatever your decision, good luck. :salute
Bannor
-
Not if you were 1 squad instead of 2, was my point.
I guess I wasn't really talking about breaking up the squad like you might be. I suppose that's a major source for the discontent on the matter. Say you had an FSO participation of 30 players... Knowing in advance you would divide this up into 2 equal units of 15, all you would have to do is assign a senior officer, somebody that can command, to the second unit. Perhaps even have them use different vox. That's the only thing the big squad has to do. FSO planner treats it like 2 squads of 15 and assigns them to separate tasks.
On that topic, though: When you break a larger group into smaller groups, you still have a solid command structure. You still have wingmen that know each other and work well together. When you combine multiple units into one you run into many more problems than when you break them down. It's just the way it works. You have to run into personalities that may not get along, or flying style that doesn't mesh, or any number of things that a larger group has already dealt with and worked out in the years of their existence.
If the only argument is that you want to fly with a massive group of friendlies (and I say this only to make a point, I know that isn't the case with you), well I can see a lot of holes in that argument.
-
I'm using 20 in a squad as a more realistic number, if there were a few squads that had 30 on a regular basis I would see your point but there is not any to my knowledge. There are a handful that field 20 on a regular basis give or take 5. Claim jumpers might push high 20's regularly, but they are the only 1 i can think of.
Given that 300 a night for FSO is a close average and there are usually 4 attack objectives and 4 defending objectives. 300/8=37.5 per engagement works out perfect. So a squad of 20 would get an assignment alone just like JG-11 did friday night and KN, numbers still work out great as far as I see it.
-
I consider G3-MF, 325th, Nightmares, 49th, 35th, etc. all Allied squads.
I would have to disagree with you on that in regards to G3-MF Perd... When we were VF-15... yes, we were an Allied squad. But since the change, we fly whatever, whenever, where ever. We look at the setup each month, and request what we think would be more fun. If we get it... great. If not, that's fine too. Just about the only time we really "prefer" Allied is in a PTO setup, but thats because we are still Hellcat dweebos at heart :) But we have flown IJN a few times as well.
To me... and I speak for all of G3 on this one... its about the mission, and flying together. We get handed a leaky bag once in a while, and do our best to make the most of it.
:salute
-
I would have to disagree with you on that in regards to G3-MF Perd... When we were VF-15... yes, we were an Allied squad. But since the change, we fly whatever, whenever, where ever. We look at the setup each month, and request what we think would be more fun. If we get it... great. If not, that's fine too. Just about the only time we really "prefer" Allied is in a PTO setup, but thats because we are still Hellcat dweebos at heart :) But we have flown IJN a few times as well.
To me... and I speak for all of G3 on this one... its about the mission, and flying together. We get handed a leaky bag once in a while, and do our best to make the most of it.
:salute
:aok
-
Proving the point that large squads do indeed get pref. treatment in consideration of what they want, etc. Because they don't wana do it, really! I get they want to be together/cohesion/effectiveness/etc. But anathema to the concept ,gota call foul on that. You still score totals as your group, you still have missions, you still fly with some of your squadies, and you still fly with unknowns and you only have to do this split sometimes not all the time. Solves the issue of small squads not getting the hot ships/missions because of big squads and lets the big squads learn/teach as well. Does nothing for allied/axis rotations of course. :aok
I'm just stirring the pot to keep the ideas flowing. There are 9 pages so far and I would think whether real or percieved the issues are best served when talked out. By the way I personally have little issue with any of this I just think discussion is benificial. I fly in a small squad and we do as instructed. :salute
So you don't stand by the first statement? You're just throwing stuff out there to stir the pot?
Yes 9 pages. Most of it paranoid accusations or just plain crap to stir the pot as with your post.
-
Where are you guys getting the smaller squads get treated with less respect than larger ones? In fact there are 28 small squads squadrons operating in the FSO. So far it is two of these squadrons complaining. One failed to update its ride request so getting bombers is more your own fault than it was the CiCs. The other squad is upset because it had to fly Axis and wants to implement a plan where they would end up flying Axis more. This would also effect the other 26 small squads that are not complaining and all the other medium and large squads as well. Its like tearing the bottom out of a sinking ship so the water will drain. Except for a couple of years in a large squad every FSO squad I've been in has been less than 10. We may not have always got the exact plane we wanted but we got good planes. You would have less to complain about if you took the time to update your side and ride request and communicate with the other squadrons for whatever side you're flying with. Your squadron's success is your responsibility not the responsibility of everybody else.
actually, my squad isnt complaining, i am. theyve said nothing about it. i feel like i said my piece, and theres nothing i can do about it and nothing left to say. it is what it is. even though, i think i can see how us being on Axis more could partly solve my issues. because there seems to be less Axis, we could actually be used in more of a primary or at least important role there. and not just fodder or filler.
and as far as some folks disappointed or outright pissed at me. listen im not complaining just to be complaining, i felt like i had a valid point or i wouldnt say anything. there isnt one person in this thread who wouldnt express concerns if they felt the need. and i have a clearer view of FSO after this thread, so its not a pointless thread, like some folks have discounted it and my opinion as. and to ridicule me about it or send me veiled threats or "suggestions" via pvt message doesnt solve anything.
-
I agree with (a portion of) the Subject.
This game is absolutely about who you know. For example, I've known Warloc since 1998 when we were in Warbirds with 416 Sqn RCAF. We both came here (as well as others from 416) in 2002. I consider these guys my friends, even though we're geographically separated by thousands of miles. Warloc and I even got a chance to go for a steak and some beers about 6 years ago when I was on a domestic deployment to his neck of the woods. In this context, who you know is one of the most important things that separates this game from a stand alone boxed sim.
As to how knowing the right people equates to better treatment in FSO...pooey. If that were the case, our Sqn wouldn't have been saddled with IL2s last week, considering our CO is the CM team lead for FSO. :D
-
Well the 94th had to fly those icky G6's last week.....I'm still trying to scrub that smell of Krautwurst and Schwarzbier off me........nasty...
:neener:
-
So you don't stand by the first statement? You're just throwing stuff out there to stir the pot?
Yes 9 pages. Most of it paranoid accusations or just plain crap to stir the pot as with your post.
Your take on it, not everyones obviously and an interesting response to be sure. A re-read might be in order as some interesting thoughts and ideas for change/percieved improvement have be put forward for discussion. "Paraniod and Crap" speaks volumes! My best to you and good day sir.
-
Your take on it, not everyones obviously and an interesting response to be sure. A re-read might be in order as some interesting thoughts and ideas for change/percieved improvement have be put forward for discussion. "Paraniod and Crap" speaks volumes! My best to you and good day sir.
You're just stiring the pot, you said so yourself.
Proving the point that large squads do indeed get pref. treatment in consideration of what they want, etc.
No squad large or small is expected to split up unless they as a squad want to. The CM team doesn't treat large squads any different than we treat small squads.
So no point is proven, you're just jumping to conclusions. No re-read needed.
-
There is nothing in that post about your kills devil :headscratch: Oh i get it ya ate the sausage with your scrambled eggs
ok surfinn, whats with all the Waffle House references, you work there!! :devil :salute
-
I'm just stirring the pot to keep the ideas flowing. There are 9 pages so far and I would think whether real or percieved the issues are best served when talked out. By the way I personally have little issue with any of this I just think discussion is benificial. I fly in a small squad and we do as instructed. :salute
:aok
-
this is an odd thread really - since there is an accusation with no substantial proof to back any claim, a fundamental lack in finding a solution to the perceive problem, and finally a steadfast refusal to see reason in any of the answers given.
“To the man who is afraid everything rustles.” Sophocles
An equal rotation is one issue singled out that can be handled. The other issues are a not as easy to zero in on and are over shadowing this. This could IMO assist with their solutions also by simply having a rotation that's known, adhered to and enforced for all if it's to be fair.
IE, 1.) 1st month the squads are picked and everyone has a side. 2.) 2nd month this process is repeated, those squads last month that had already rotated from their side aren't to be used again(unless their requests agree with those assigning the sides) until all of the squads have rotated. As is we're all pot luck every month except for the dedicated Axis squad. We're all dedicated FSO squads and I only reference fairness when I push for this rotation to be a rule. Only thing I see remotely negative is a bit of research each month to make sure it's done :bhead
-
We know some people, and our orders for frame 2 show for it. :P
-
We know some people, and our orders for frame 2 show for it. :P
No kidding. Good job surfinn, you won over the Axis CiC. Frame 2 gives the Allies a big handicap. Something tells me Allies will still FAIL. :rofl
Not that Im complaining.