Question to Finns

[Fishu]

Except Iraq isn't the US carelia, lost in the US winter war

[Raven_2]

to Boroda

>>Прости, а ты кто?  Я тебя знаю?

Нет. Увидел этот линк на опер ру. Зашёл. Почитал. Обсудил этот тред в теме о Второй Мировой на другом форуме, русском. Теперь, вот, решил помочь :-) Только пишу я по-английски плохо :-(

to Siaf_csf

>>If you deny that people were living in USSR below poverty level you're in total denial and in some sort of delirious state of mind.

I lived in USSR. Boroda did. And you? I know what I`m talkin about. You not. All you knowledge is from western anti-soviet propoganda books. So who is brainwashed?

>>Boroda, why are the roads so bad in russia? If you are so wealthy, why not just fix them?

Russia is > 8000 km in "radius". It`s not a Luxemburg, you know. There is a lot, I mean a LOT of roads. And with destroed economics all of them cannot be repaired.

>>Why could you get a woman, a bag full of russian items and alcohol as much as you could drink with a piece of western clothing just 15 years ago? LOL!

:-O Are you crazy? But maybe you talk about punk-woman and techical ethilen... It`s the only way that possible.

>>I mean you could get laid easy just by promising the woman a pair of stockings.

You mean lie. Again. But you can do an experiment: go in Russia, find a woman and promising to she a pair of stockings for ****. And then listen what she says to you :-)

to Fishu

>>I don't recall any wide scale german SS kind of attrocities by finns

Yeah, you right. You don`t recall such things. Westerners brainwash you well. We was brainwashed also, so we don`t recall Katyn. I wonder: how germans brainwashed for now? What they think about their history in 39--45? Blame USSR for occupation, like all of you?

to Toad

>>Yeah, you Finns were the truly EVIL ones. Your demonic drive towards world hegemony was thankfully stopped by the valiant Stalinst volunteers defending their homeland. And they only had butterknives.

Maybe you tell us about "democratic Germany" in 39-45, that was occupied by USSR bastards just for fun, without any reason?

If the Soivets lost the war, all Eorupe nations, except German, cease to exist or beacame slaves. Think about it.

Or maybe faschist rule were not so bad for Europe? Yeah concentraitions camp - it`s like a disneyland, I suppose.

>>This is funny on two levels. First, it again shows Boroda occupies an entirely different reality but occasionally visits when the time-space continuum warps the worm holes.
>>Secondly, you Finns are getting to feel the same feeling we feel when some of you come up with some totally off the wall, incredibly unbelievable statements about the Evil Amreekans.

You right :-) There is no angels in this world. USSR did bad things. Finland did it. USA do it. But noone whould be blame his own country. You can find reason to blame any country in this world. But why Russia is most offenly chosen?

[Raven_2]

to Fishu

>>Try to occupy carelia? Do you remember it was originally part of Finland. How is it possible to occupy own land in the way you're suggesting?

And the Finland (and Poland, and many other countries) was the part of Russian Empire (1808 -1917, more then centuary). So how it was possible to occupy our own Finland in 1938? :-)

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raven_2


to Toad

Maybe you tell us about "democratic Germany" in 39-45, that was occupied by USSR bastards just for fun, without any reason?

[/b]

The Nazis were senseless, uncivilized butchers in many, many instances. It's a fine thing that the Soviets fought and defeated them.

Let us not forget, however, that the Soviets senselessly and in very uncivlized fashion slaughtered Polish POW's at Katyn. What did those Poles have to do with the Nazis? Well, nothing except that they were fighting them while the SOVIETS were ALLIED with the Nazis.

And let's not forget about how uncivilized the Red Army was when it occupied Germany; check out the history of the Red Army during the capture of Berlin.

What am I saying? It's great you fought the Nazis because they were an evil upon the earth. It's too bad the Soviets emulated so many of the Nazi's evil aspects.

Originally posted by Raven_2

 But why Russia is most offenly chosen?

Probably because under Stalin they were tied with the Nazis for the most aggressively barbarous regime in the world.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Raven_2
And the Finland (and Poland, and many other countries) was the part of Russian Empire (1808 -1917, more then centuary). So how it was possible to occupy our own Finland in 1938? :-)

Let me see..  before russians Finland was under swedish rule... even longer time before it was nothing but a bunch of land with some finnish tribes, until someone thought that the finns needs to be good god fearing christians instead of "pagans".

So if we go that deep into the history, then it would be the land of the finnish tribes.
...then again russia would be also a mix of tribes and you wouldn't have any claims on carelia, ukraine, belorussia, et cetera et cetera.

Oh yeah, back to the point.
Before the independency Finland was an autonomical part of russia, which did have its own borders. How could you define an autonomical state without borders? It was actually fair time for the finns, with the exception of Bobrikov's time in the office.
When the communists took over in russia, the Soviet Union gave independency for Finland. Namely Lenin did.
Apparently his right hand, Stalin, wasn't as impressed by the idea and wanted to undeclare the declared couple decades later.

Anyway, Finland had all the right to the land after it was declared independent, just like changing ownership of a house. Previous owner has no more any rights to the house.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Fishu
Previous owner has no more any rights to the house.

Unless the previous owner was Russian.  

[Raven_2]

to Fishu

>>Anyway, Finland had all the right to the land after it was declared independent, just like changing ownership of a house.

That was a joke. I mean by that no one can claim ownership on the land he own decades ago. Yes, occupation of Finland wasn`t right - almost like finish ocupation of Carelia and finish intervention in 1917-1918, 1920-1921. So, Carelia is *not* finish land and Finland had no right to occupy it in WW2.

[Raven_2]

to Toad

>>Unless the previous owner was Russian

... or Japan. They still want Kurily from Russia.

>>Probably because under Stalin they were tied with the Nazis for the most aggressively barbarous regime in the world.

Fcuk. Stalin is no more since 1953. And still there is lot of Russia-haters in the world. BTW, what about most agressive country of last 20 years, huh? :-)

>>Let us not forget, however, that the Soviets senselessly and in very uncivlized fashion slaughtered Polish POW's at Katyn.

Heh. So what? Maybe we should remember indian reservations? And declare all americans "sensless butchers"? Time changes, and people do too.

>>And let's not forget about how uncivilized the Red Army was when it occupied Germany

8-( If someone kills your wife and your son - what would you do? Sue this basstard or shot his brain out of his head? Rage of Soviet troops was normal reaction on cruelity of faschist brutes.

>>It's too bad the Soviets emulated so many of the Nazi's evil aspects.

Um. Stalin was a harsh ruller yes. And there were human rights violations (BTW, UN and "human rights" start AFTER the WWII and before that humanism as a main rule wasn`t exist at all). But there was no natiaonalism in USSR, so comparing USSR with nazi - it`s a direct offence to all ex-USSR people. Bloodlust? Yes. Shovinism? No.

[Toad]

You fall back upon the same barbaric excuses for barbarism.

Rage of Soviet troops was normal reaction on cruelity of faschist brutes.

Yes, they were so outraged they became their enemy. The Soviet troops became as barbaric as the Nazis. And apparently were proud of that. Congratulations. And still you wonder why Russians have the reputation they have.

Stalin is no more since 1953. And still there is lot of Russia-haters in the world. BTW, what about most agressive country of last 20 years, huh?

On 4 November 1956, Khrushchev ordered the Soviet army to invade Hungary. In the
fighting that followed, 7000 Soviet troops and 30000 Hungarians were killed

August 21 - 23, 1968
Angered by the Prague Spring reforms, Moscow orders Warsaw Pact forces to invade Czechoslovakia. Dubcek is sent to Ukraine, then in handcuffs to Moscow. An estimated 83 Czechs and Slovaks are killed across the country as Soviet tanks roll down Prague's historic streets.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979. It was the last hot war it would fight, and one whose failure played a leading role in its loss of the Cold War and disintegration.

Yah, I can see it all ended when Stalin died. And still you wonder how the Soviets can be so "misunderstood".  

We all wonder how long you folks can remain in denial.

Now, you go list the places invaded by the "most agressive country of last 20 years".

List them and also list how many of them have free elections of their own government now, how many of them are democracies or republics. Go ahead.

And your comparison of Katyn is very weak. In 1870, the dominant race in the US treated the Native Americans like sub-humans. Even so, they NEVER massacred 24,000 surrendered Indian combatants.

At Katyn, Soviets... who had a treaty with Poland and a SECRET deal with the Nazis to divide Poland between them.... invaded Poland while Poland was fighting an Nazi invasion. The Soviets then executed 24,000+ surrendered soldiers.  Go ahead, find something that brutal in US treatment of the Native Americans.

Also, while you're at it, find where the US has denied the historical atrocities against the Indians, like the Soviets denied Katyn until recently.

See any difference? No, of course you don't. And still you wonder.

[Raven_2]

to Toad

>>And still you wonder why Russians have the reputation they have.

You don`t answer on my question. If someone kills your wife and your son - what would you do? Sue this bastard or shot his brain out of his head?

>>The Soviet troops became as barbaric as the Nazis.

Nazi wasn`t barbaric. Gegel and Fihte (bad spelling, i think) was at roots of faschist ideology. German was the most technologicaly advanced, most modern country in the world. It was the land of classic german philosophy. They were over-civilized, not barbaric. They thinked they are above all others. Americans now think the same...

>>The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979

Yes, and USA invade it five years ago. Bastards? No doubt.

>>And your comparison of Katyn is very weak. In 1870, the dominant race in the US treated the Native Americans like sub-humans. Even so, they NEVER massacred 24,000 surrendered Indian combatants.

I know only that polak nation is exist, and indian is no more. Numbers not equal? Bah. You slaughter/destroy *nation*, not bunch of people.

>> invaded Poland while Poland was fighting an Nazi invasion.

LOL 8-) Poland "defend" was already dead to 1943. Fight, huh... Sit on their tulips and waiting for help...

>>Go ahead, find something that brutal in US treatment

Nagasaki. Hirosima. 300.000 civilians killed. Japan military strengh was already destroed. But USA wanted to show the world they nuclear weapons. Bloody bastards...

>>Also, while you're at it, find where the US has denied the historical atrocities against the Indians, like the Soviets denied Katyn until recently.

... and still denie. Yeltsin was a pice of ****, not legitime president. This *****g bastard could say *anything* that West want to hear.

>>List them and also list how many of them have free elections of their own government now, how many of them are democracies or republics. Go ahead.

Free election in the country with destroed economics and infrastructure, with thousands of dead childrens... Sure, it was "liberation"...

And don`t you told me that Iraq now has free elections. There is no TV censoure for Iraq news in our country, like in yours, so we see what really happens with Iraq now.

About all acts of agression. I must check books and think on answer. So I post my answer later.

[Suave]

Caption this.

[Raven_2]

And about polak agin. Poland goes to USSR by Potsdam conferrence, with agree of England and USA. So if you blame USSR for Poland, you must blame England and USA for the same.

[Raven_2]

to Suave

It`s a Sherman drive on nazi, yes? :-)

You really think that this photo can be an evidience of USSR "brutines" in Czechoslovakia?

BTW, there were demonstration of protest of invasion to Czechoslovakia 25 august 1968 on Red Square. By russian people. It`s a bad thing, initiatedby our government, so, please, don`t blame russian people for that.

[Suave]

It's not CZ.

Here's a hint, OSNAZ alpha teams liquidated a television station probably same day this photo was taken.

Oh and are you actually suggesting that when the USSR stole CZ it wasn't brutal ?

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Raven_2
[BYou don`t answer on my question. If someone kills your wife and your son - what would you do? Sue this bastard or shot his brain out of his head?
 [/B]

A revenge somehow makes it better? a revenge against people who had nothing to do with it?
How many of the abused women in Berlin killed a russian wife or son?
How many of the elderly people killed a russian wife or son?
How many german wives and sons were killed?

Whatcha gonna do, kill 'em all?
A bloody revenge against unknown people does no good, it only creates more hatred and the opposing side will also seek for a revenge. Rinse & repeat.

You got to draw a line somewhere.