Post by: RODBUSTR on November 20, 2017, 01:56:32 PM
Post by: Krusty on November 20, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
But.. I mean.. sure.. make them invisible. Pretend that they can have an effect on others without others having an effect on them.
Fighter planes kept you safe, not stealth. You were a target. Get in, get your job done, and get out. You linger, you die. Or get a friend or two to fly in your area and shoot any heavy, lumbering planes with bombs down before they get to you.
Post by: eddiek on November 20, 2017, 03:16:13 PM
Minor correction, Krusty: Even the Shermans were over 30 tons, the Tigers were like in the 60 ton range.
Something of that weight is gonna be loud, and leave tracks.
When they fire, they had "some" residual smoke, even with the smokeless charges of the time.
Having said that.......I miss the days when it was all about combat and fighting.
The 6K icon range was a bit excessive, but something along the lines of 2.5-3K would be worth experimenting with, IMO.
You "should" be able to either spot a GV on the ground, or at least follow their tracks. Any vehicle of that weight is gonna disturb the ground in some manner. What we have now is not "stealth", it's more of a Star Trek cloaking device.
I used to GV some back in the day, when numbers were high, and you had some visual reference to help you estimate the ranges.
Now, just gonna leave the GV stuff to the "experten" who've had time to conquer that aspect of the game. Been sent to the tower too many times these past few months with no sound of a shot, or hit, or anything. Just poof back in the tower with a message of who killed me.
I'm thinking as much about the potential new player who gets that done to them enough, and then decides it's not worth it. The learning curve has always been steep, but how can you learn when you don't see the shot(s) that kill you? Or where they came from?
Post by: redcatcherb412 on November 20, 2017, 04:01:13 PM
[img width= height=]http://www.veteransofthebattleofthebulge.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/tank.jpg[/img]
Post by: TDeacon on November 20, 2017, 04:20:27 PM
Minor correction, Krusty: Even the Shermans were over 30 tons, the Tigers were like in the 60 ton range.
Something of that weight is gonna be loud, and leave tracks.
When they fire, they had "some" residual smoke, even with the smokeless charges of the time.
Having said that.......I miss the days when it was all about combat and fighting.
The 6K icon range was a bit excessive, but something along the lines of 2.5-3K would be worth experimenting with, IMO.
You "should" be able to either spot a GV on the ground, or at least follow their tracks. Any vehicle of that weight is gonna disturb the ground in some manner. What we have now is not "stealth", it's more of a Star Trek cloaking device.
I used to GV some back in the day, when numbers were high, and you had some visual reference to help you estimate the ranges.
Now, just gonna leave the GV stuff to the "experten" who've had time to conquer that aspect of the game. Been sent to the tower too many times these past few months with no sound of a shot, or hit, or anything. Just poof back in the tower with a message of who killed me.
I'm thinking as much about the potential new player who gets that done to them enough, and then decides it's not worth it. The learning curve has always been steep, but how can you learn when you don't see the shot(s) that kill you? Or where they came from?
Why do we expect the GV part of the game to be simple for beginners when the AC part isn't? A newbie has the same or greater issues with AC in this game. I wouldn't want Hitech to dumb down the AC game, and don't want him to dumb down the GV game either. Remember, AC have speed; GVs have stealth. Take either away and it's a whole new ball game, and IMHO a worse one.
With respect to not seeing the shots that kill you (i.e. the tank shot flying through the air), I got rid of that issue by reducing the max texture size to 1K (it had been at 4K). That helped me see hit sprites as well. Whether this is a bug or not I'm not sure.
MH
Post by: waystin2 on November 20, 2017, 04:40:33 PM
Post by: redcatcherb412 on November 20, 2017, 04:49:11 PM
To equate sitting in a bush undetected until the cows come home with stealth and skill is just silly. No one is wanting dumb down the game, they are wanting to motivate those who want to sit and hide for too long.Never till the sheep come home, but maybe just till the hunting IL2, stuka etc. runs low on fuel, gets bored or a friendly makes the skies unfriendly for the GV hunter. Usually barely long enough to even go get a brew and a sammich.
Post by: TDeacon on November 20, 2017, 10:46:08 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on November 20, 2017, 10:52:49 PM
Never till the sheep come home, but maybe just till the hunting IL2, stuka etc. runs low on fuel, gets bored or a friendly makes the skies unfriendly for the GV hunter. Usually barely long enough to even go get a brew and a sammich.
The GV hunter gets bored or runs out of gas because trying to find your cowardly arse in the bushes is an exercise in futility given the current GV icons.
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 21, 2017, 11:19:23 AM
To equate sitting in a bush undetected until the cows come home with stealth and skill is just silly. No one is wanting dumb down the game, they are wanting to motivate those who want to sit and hide for too long.
This is fake news, it is a lie. Waystin has posted in the same thread where this statement was posted by HiTech:
The change was designed PRIMARILY for gv v gv play. But it will change to a sector ( size of sector to be determined) based system in the next attempt.
HiTech
The GV hunter gets bored or runs out of gas because trying to find your cowardly arse in the bushes is an exercise in futility given the current GV icons.
Good idea, stop being futile. Hopefully your ineffective hunter goes and does something productive, as opposed to attempting to increase his kill count by searching a stationary vehicle that is not shooting anything.
"Look mommy, all these bad guys I killed that were like ants under a magnifying glass and couldn't shoot back."
Post by: The Fugitive on November 21, 2017, 11:27:50 AM
So we get something to make it easier to find GVs.
Post by: waystin2 on November 21, 2017, 11:40:44 AM
This is fake news, it is a lie. Waystin has posted in the same thread where this statement was posted by HiTech:Oh man Move over Flipth, Kildoi is wanting on my ankle too! LOL Somebody hand me the Epilady I can't see him through all those leaves... :rofl
Good idea, stop being futile. Hopefully your ineffective hunter goes and does something productive, as opposed to attempting to increase his kill count by searching a stationary vehicle that is not shooting anything.
"Look mommy, all these bad guys I killed that were like ants under a magnifying glass and couldn't shoot back."
Post by: Devil 505 on November 21, 2017, 12:44:03 PM
Post by: popeye on November 21, 2017, 01:43:14 PM
It will be interesting to see how the "GV sector counters" work.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on November 21, 2017, 01:46:22 PM
The GV hunter gets bored or runs out of gas because trying to find your cowardly arse in the bushes is an exercise in futility given the current GV icons.Maybe I drove 20 minutes from the spawn through almost impenetrable forest to set up a position to try to take your base and I will lie quiet till you leave so I can shell your town or base. You spout about any non (at every moment) combat, cowardly arses as most hordes aim is to destroy DAR/Ords/VH to suppress combat and set up the vulch light. That's almost as hypocritical as calling stealth move and hide for GVs cowards hiding from game combat or griping because they set up off field to blow your taking off/landing plane on your field as unfair cause it's not your kind of combat. It's a game, we all play it differently. If we all played the same then how boring it would be. You've made your preference for aircraft and disdain for GVs quite clear, but I think 'viva la difference' keeps this game going and fun. Hope to main gun your plane soon :aok
Post by: TDeacon on November 21, 2017, 01:52:27 PM
Your a special kind of idiot, aren't you?
(text removed)
So Skuzzy, is it acceptable to call other posters idiots? I ask this question because you removed my comment concerning Waystin2 under "rule #4" ...
MH
Post by: Devil 505 on November 21, 2017, 02:37:41 PM
Maybe I drove 20 minutes from the spawn through almost impenetrable forest to set up a position to try to take your base and I will lie quiet till you leave so I can shell your town or base. You spout about any non (at every moment) combat, cowardly arses as most hordes aim is to destroy DAR/Ords/VH to suppress combat and set up the vulch light. That's almost as hypocritical as calling stealth move and hide for GVs cowards hiding from game combat or griping because they set up off field to blow your taking off/landing plane on your field as unfair cause it's not your kind of combat. It's a game, we all play it differently. If we all played the same then how boring it would be. You've made your preference for aircraft and disdain for GVs quite clear, but I think 'viva la difference' keeps this game going and fun. Hope to main gun your plane soon :aok
So I guess that just because I fly 20 minutes to get to a fight that I should be immune to Wirba and ground guns? Because that's your logic.
Another hypocrite like Killroy.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 21, 2017, 02:39:30 PM
So Skuzzy, is it acceptable to call other posters idiots? I ask this question because you removed my comment concerning Waystin2 under "rule #4" ...
MH
I'm just giving Killjoy a dose of his own medicine.
Post by: Oldman731 on November 21, 2017, 02:46:56 PM
most hordes aim is to destroy DAR/Ords/VH to suppress combat and set up the vulch light. That's almost as hypocritical as calling stealth move and hide for GVs cowards hiding from game combat
I could agree with that.
- oldman
Post by: redcatcherb412 on November 21, 2017, 02:57:59 PM
Another hypocrite like Killroy.I'll leave that badge to you for all your comments on 'GVs in trees and don't fight nonstop' versus your comment of 'you fight and shoot planes off my runway'.
Kinda sounds like, fight fight fight, but don't shoot at me logic going there. :rofl
Post by: Devil 505 on November 21, 2017, 03:37:56 PM
Running field supplies is not fighting either, but if the icons made it possible to spot them at a reasonable range it would at least be a form of combat. But as it stands, it's just sneaking about.
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 22, 2017, 10:55:11 AM
We'll overlook the rank name calling, it's beneath this forum. Not to delve into hypocrisy, but please indeed tell us, what exactly does this statement mean? Superficially, it looks like you are comparing a pot and kettle, isn't that right? Ok, what about the pot might need it to be made aware of in relation to the kettle? It would not possibly the fact that they are essentially both the same, by being exposed to the fires of cooking, is that, or is that not the case? It certainly would not be the fact that they are both covered in soot, right? Because of what that would define about anyone who found meaning from a phrase like that, based on the given connotation, so please, do enlighten us.
Hello pot, meet kettle.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 22, 2017, 11:18:24 AM
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pot%20Calling%20the%20Kettle%20Black
It all ties back to your comment about bombing GV's as "only increasing his hill count" when you have a reputation for spawn camping aircraft - behavior that serves only to pad your own kill count and grief pilots.
Therefore, your accusation is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Post by: noman on November 22, 2017, 12:25:44 PM
Post by: Bruv119 on November 22, 2017, 04:38:28 PM
Why not give GVs a big fat red icon too? No I don't like It.
cybro/you have one less advantage? :bolt:
Post by: bustr on November 22, 2017, 04:40:36 PM
So Skuzzy, is it acceptable to call other posters idiots? I ask this question because you removed my comment concerning Waystin2 under "rule #4" ...
MH
If it gets me Skuzzinated, I suspect it will get anyone a visit from Skuzzy's rule book.
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 28, 2017, 08:59:42 PM
If you wanted an endless stream of noob bombers in lanks and A20's who might not be as intimidated bombing as they are dogfighting,
If you wanted wirbles to up and not be able to leave the spawn for being overwhelmed,
If you wanted to demonstrate your respect for a gv player is exactly equal to an object for pilots to find and destroy,
the latest gv dar delivers.
Post by: The Fugitive on November 28, 2017, 09:05:29 PM
Post by: Becinhu on November 28, 2017, 09:37:39 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Dace on November 28, 2017, 09:57:17 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on November 28, 2017, 10:02:58 PM
Post by: Dundee on November 28, 2017, 11:10:31 PM
If you wanted 160 online and the only gv's out are at tank town,
If you wanted an endless stream of noob bombers in lanks and A20's who might not be as intimidated bombing as they are dogfighting,
If you wanted wirbles to up and not be able to leave the spawn for being overwhelmed,
If you wanted to demonstrate your respect for a gv player is exactly equal to an object for pilots to find and destroy,
the latest gv dar delivers.
Yes but now I can see you sneaking a base from 3 sector out
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 29, 2017, 04:40:24 AM
You can WATCH this happen on the map and you can witness the reality of it in the death of the DA. THAT is proof enough alone. IF furballing were the end all of AH, the DA would RULE and it does not, why? Because no one wants a fair fight. Everyone wants to pick and that starts with the marginally hidden gver, picking stupid little pilots as they try to take off to bomb pick without getting picked, fighter aces who want to pick stupid bomb****lers while they myopically search defenseless gv's, all the way up to the Rocky's and Gflyer's who only use the war to generate victims to pick and really don't affect the course of that war whatsoever.
The entire game has turned into a giant tank town. You know, the one on NDSLIES where NOTHING happens unless there is a cv in position and otherwise people sort of defensively and deulingly fly over tt. It's boring as stink and easily the biggest attendance killing map. This pattern has been carried to the new Oceana map. Last night I came on and the bulk of the battle was at TT. The only thing to try to pick was at TT, because no one was taking bases. I don't know if anyone noticed but bases only ever get taken when a cv is near, when a squad does it, or when gv's go to work on a field. The whole organic thing of beating a field down to WF and calling for a goon from within the massive cap is long, long departed. Last time I saw that happen was on Fester, I think. And the pattern still holds at Oceana, 12 hours into the map 4 bases have fallen, all Rook predictably - and that's it.
This post includes actual predictions. In about 2 hours v97th squad will join Rook as a group as they always do, every morning and they will make a squad action and recover most, or more than those lost fields before they log for the day.
This new GV indicator will be removed. The game maybe used to work without tanks but not any more. I don't even have to ask - or whine. It's a prediction. It is an insult to the dignity of anyone who thinks the game is "balanced." GV's were introduced to give planes something to shoot at besides other planes. Then you had to actually motivate people to be targets. I don't fly around looking for other planes to shoot at because to me it is adolescent. It is Maverick driving a Gpz900r with sunglasses instead of a helmet, killing his wizzo and looking for Russians to beat down, blech.
(https://i.imgur.com/g34grf3.jpg)
In terms of the game AH, furballing is the most developed and polished aspect of a multi aspect war simulator. AH is not a combat flight simulator, I've played those and there are no GV's. The gv aspect is difficult, which I don't mind, in fact I relish it. To have to figure out how to excel at this odd and challenging angle of the game and accomplish such is rewarding to me. A single person can't effectively affect the war from a plane. You have just demoted me to herding cats.
Instead of being able to actually go out and start the war; drop the ords, radar, WF the town, now I have to motivate other to do this. I can do any one or two from a plane, but with the reset times and fewer than 20 pilots in each country, nothing will ever happen except during peak hours and if nothing happens goodbye. On countless occasions Bish base takes - and ultimate wins, have stemmed directly from my incessant attacks and consequent depletions of fields, usually v bases and ports. Now, if I want to drive, it's up a wirble and hope I don't get swarmed, or watch for the never forming horde to make the skies safe overhead.
I invite HiTech to collaborate with an experienced GVer on implementing the feature that gv radar is intended to provide.
Post by: Copprhed on November 29, 2017, 07:13:50 AM
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 09:25:02 AM
The entire game has turned into a giant tank town. You know, the one on NDSLIES where NOTHING happens unless there is a cv in position and otherwise people sort of defensively and deulingly fly over tt. It's boring as stink and easily the biggest attendance killing map.
This right here proves that you don't know a damn thing of what your talking about.
The center island is not "Tank Town". It has an area that GVers can play in, but that does not mean that the island belong to GVers. Notice that there are 6 airfields on the island. Clearly HiTech wants planes there. Nowhere else in the game can a fight develop faster and action be found quicker by an individual. The center island of NDisles is everything great about AH crammed into 1 sector.
NDisles is not the map that drives out players, Buzzsaw is - a map seeming designed to stagnate air combat with long distances between airfields and asinine topographical features between them. That map is your tank town and far fewer players go there, because the combat sucks on it.
Post by: JunkyII on November 29, 2017, 09:37:26 AM
Furballers are already gone so don't blame them.
Post by: wil3ur on November 29, 2017, 09:46:53 AM
Post by: iikie on November 29, 2017, 10:17:06 AM
As it is, if there is no darbar in the sector and a base is flashing and there is a vehicle spawn to that base, guess what! There is a vehicle there. (Most likely)
So you up with some bombs and fly low to enemy spawn, find the and bomb him.
I guess I just don't get why we would add something that makes the game less realistic with minimal value?
Is this just for lazy people who have not yet learned to reason things out.
I don't care about the stupid unrealistic "GV dar" I just don't get it????
Post by: Copprhed on November 29, 2017, 11:51:49 AM
I just think the vehicle Dar boxes are not realistic. There is no such thing as vehicle radar. If you are too stupid to find a gv.....Ok, the game doesn't accurately represent the intensely loud noise of tanks approaching, nor does it show the dust raised when they travel overland. There are MANY MANY things about the game. in all of it's aspects that are not "realistic". Remember, this is a GAME, not a full realistic sim.
As it is, if there is no darbar in the sector and a base is flashing and there is a vehicle spawn to that base, guess what! There is a vehicle there. (Most likely)
So you up with some bombs and fly low to enemy spawn, find the and bomb him.
I guess I just don't get why we would add something that makes the game less realistic with minimal value?
Is this just for lazy people who have not yet learned to reason things out.
I don't care about the stupid unrealistic "GV dar" I just don't get it????
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 29, 2017, 12:00:14 PM
Ok, the game doesn't accurately represent the intensely loud noise of tanks approaching, nor does it show the dust raised when they travel overland. There are MANY MANY things about the game. in all of it's aspects that are not "realistic". Remember, this is a GAME, not a full realistic sim.
And yet the Flyers all scream about "In Real Life". :rofl
Look bottom line, the GV Dar does nothing to improve the GV game, but greatly enhances the Air to ground game by locating the GV's. :O
Post by: rvflyer on November 29, 2017, 12:03:44 PM
Post by: Zoney on November 29, 2017, 12:13:47 PM
And yet the Flyers all scream about "In Real Life". :rofl
Look bottom line, the GV Dar does nothing to improve the GV game, but greatly enhances the Air to ground game by locating the GV's. :O
Good, because GV'ers have for a very long time had all the advantages against aircraft. This levels the playing field.
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 29, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
Good, because GV'ers have for a very long time had all the advantages against aircraft. This levels the playing field.
No Zoney, this buries the GV game. How can a two dimensional combat vehicle, have an advantage over a 3 dimensional Combat aircraft?? You have height, speed (significant I might add), a broader selection of ordnance, and longer range. As a side point, historically your also wrong, in WW2 GV's were at a distinct disadvantage against aircraft, through out the war. There are more than enough ways to detect gv's without the GV dar, all you have to do is use them. :cheers:
Post by: Zoney on November 29, 2017, 12:37:50 PM
No Zoney, this buries the GV game. How can a two dimensional combat vehicle, have an advantage over a 3 dimensional Combat aircraft?? You have height, speed (significant I might add), a broader selection of ordnance, and longer range. As a side point, historically your also wrong, in WW2 GV's were at a distinct disadvantage against aircraft, through out the war. There are more than enough ways to detect gv's without the GV dar, all you have to do is use them. :cheers:
Nope. As long as Gv'ers have no dust trails from moving and no dust trail from firing and the longer range icon than the aircraft do on them, it's fair. GV'ers also do not have to drive from base to base, they just spawn in. Do aircraft just get to appear over an enemy base, nope.
I believe Gv'ers have had way to many advantages and if that makes them fly aircraft instead, I think that's a good thing too. Spawn camping is what is prevalent for getting kills, I think that's really crappy game play. Because of how GV'ers play, I have absolutely no interest in trying it.
Thank you for your kind attention to my opinion.
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2017, 12:42:01 PM
Good, because GV'ers have for a very long time had all the advantages against aircraft.
Not at all.
GV's have been, and still are, mostly just victims to the air war. Unless they are going into total hiding (which was made possible by the new terrain, not the icon ranges), a GV force attacking a base will always be at the mercy of a likewise sized & skilled air force.
The only setting I would have ever changed is icon range to friendly GVs when in a plane, which should be the same as for enemy GV (yes, it's about the infamose Wirble dragging).
And there I was yesterday, cruising in my Ta 152 at 20K and could exactly tell where the enemy vehicles were maneuvering at a base 100 miles away. I could even tell they were trying to avoid the direct way from spawn to town by diverting to the coast and then going along it towards the base.
GV'ers also do not have to drive from base to base, they just spawn in. Do aircraft just get to appear over an enemy base, nope.
They don't appear on an enemy base, either. They are still 5-10 minutes out, that's a similiar time planes need to cover 1-2 sectors.
Post by: hitech on November 29, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Not at all.
GV's have been, and still are, mostly just victims to the air war. Unless they are going into total hiding (which was made possible by the new terrain, not the icon ranges), a GV force attacking a base will always be at the mercy of a likewise sized & skilled air force.
The only setting I would have ever changed is icon range to friendly GVs when in a plane, which should be the same as for enemy GV (yes, it's about the infamose Wirble dragging).
And there I was yesterday, cruising in my Ta 152 at 20K and could exactly tell where the enemy vehicles were maneuvering at a base 100 miles away. I could even tell they were trying to avoid the direct way from spawn to town by diverting to the coast and then going along it towards the base.
Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.
HiTech
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2017, 12:45:38 PM
Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.
HiTech
GV combat has a different dynamic to it, and the GV dar has a much finer granularity. In GV combat, I can use it tactically, in air combat, the sector darbar doesn't help me much with my maneuvering in combat itself.
Post by: Zoney on November 29, 2017, 12:48:00 PM
I also do not engage GV's with my aircraft. They are having their fun and I do not wish to take that away from them as they are engaging each other. Because of this, I wish they would also not engage my aircraft. I know that is not going to happen.
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 29, 2017, 01:02:41 PM
Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.
HiTech
Town or Base flashing, no Dar Bar, most likely a GV. Same useful information.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 01:44:48 PM
GV combat has a different dynamic to it, and the GV dar has a much finer granularity. In GV combat, I can use it tactically, in air combat, the sector darbar doesn't help me much with my maneuvering in combat itself.The problem is, having some tactical aid is exactly what's needed for attacking GV's with aircraft. Without it, Zoney's assessment was correct.
Post by: puller on November 29, 2017, 01:49:21 PM
Kilroy, to be fair the "furballers" who are left are the historic type for the most part or b list like Anti Horde.
Furballers are already gone so don't blame them.
Whine recorded....
Guess we are still living rent free in your head junky...Seems every post you make is a slight toward my guys...WTG
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2017, 01:53:00 PM
The problem is, having some tactical aid is exactly what's needed for attacking GV's with aircraft.
Why is it needed? What trouble did you folks had in enaging GV from the air that I don't know about? I simply still don't get it. Vehicles are target. Vehicles are victims. Even without magic.
And more importantly, it's not only affecting planes vs GV. It's also affecting GV vs GV combat.
Post by: Krusty on November 29, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
With a GV you can stop and sit and camp and be disruptive and grief the playerbase quite easily. That's the problem. A plane can't shut off its engine and just hover in the air somewhere, still shooting its guns at anything nearby while being invisible. A plane does anything like that and they 1) find themselves somewhere else (because flight requires constant forward motion) or 2) Darwinistically kill themselves because they tried to stay in place and camp (planes crash when you do that).
Tanks require more definition in the radar pointing you towards the fight because of the minority mentality that turns them into disruptions of the normal gameplay. If they didn't camp hidden, invisible, undetectable from ground or air while still retaining the ability to 1-shot-kill their foes and spawn camp... well then this wouldn't be a problem and none of us would be having this discussion.
The issue is: It IS a problem. How do you fix it? Suggesting they they play a certain way isn't HT's style and is impossible to enforce. The other way is to dissuade them from their current playstyle by changing how much grief they cause.
So, what's your solution to this problem? It IS a problem. What do you change to resolve this? I say 6k GV icons from the air is a good start. This GV radar is another method (I'm on the fence about it but it makes some sense).
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2017, 01:55:36 PM
I say 6k GV icons from the air is a good start.
I'm shaking my head in disbelief.
Post by: Wiley on November 29, 2017, 02:00:12 PM
Wiley.
Post by: Krusty on November 29, 2017, 02:11:08 PM
I'm shaking my head in disbelief.
Keep shaking it. Just as with air icons, ground icons represent information the game cannot display. Tanks were the most visible and audible thing on the battlefield for miles around. They could NOT be missed. In this game you have to be dangerously low alt to spot them and often are already committed to your attack run before you even see an icon.
That's just unrealistic and an arbitrary handicap to benefit GVs in this game -- and I might add was only because GV players whined about being attacked from the air. Rather than change tactics, fly with friends as top cover or anything remotely realistic they whined to make the game easier for them.
Just like today.
We have to stop making it easier for GVs. If we don't then I'm going to start whining that my plane is visible to other planes and it shouldn't be because that's not fair and I want to be able to engage planes taking off and kill them on the runway but I can't because the players keep seeing me and won't spawn or they shoot me down....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
It's a very lopsided double standard right now, and GVs have had only profited from it. Now we have the problem with GV gameplay suffering because of camping, because of griefing gameplay styles, because of things that would be easily fixed if they could be actually spotted and attacked from the air... You know, like in reality. Like history showed. Like back when icons were 6k for GVs.
If you persist in creating a world where GVs are so isolated from anything else, put them in their own arena like WW1. We'll see how many want that. Otherwise equalize the standards at play. GVs see aircraft information at twice the range that planes can see GV information. Why? Because the whines.
Post by: JunkyII on November 29, 2017, 02:27:34 PM
Whine recorded....Its not a whine, The old furball squads I couldn't sit here and say I can beat any pilot in their squad in their favorite plane without any doubt in my mind....today most of the dedicated furball squads I can.
Guess we are still living rent free in your head junky...Seems every post you make is a slight toward my guys...WTG
Sorry to tell you, you guys aren't nearly as good as The Few, AoM, BKs, ect ect ect used to be. Not even close....so again.... B list.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 02:44:15 PM
Why is it needed? What trouble did you folks had in enaging GV from the air that I don't know about? I simply still don't get it. Vehicles are target. Vehicles are victims. Even without magic.
And more importantly, it's not only affecting planes vs GV. It's also affecting GV vs GV combat.
Krusty nailed it.
The ability for aircraft to effectively engage GV's was lost when the Storch was introduced along with the new GV icon rules. I was easier in AH2 because there was much less cover, but still difficult with the icon change. In AH3 it is near impossible to spot and engage a single GV from a plane without F3 mode.
What I keep trying to drive home is the fact that before the icon change GV vs. GV fights would often generate air combat as well. The GV killers would roll to hunt the tanks and the fighters would roll to kill the GV killers. It was a healthy environment for total combat and it is gone now.
Post by: popeye on November 29, 2017, 02:58:05 PM
In AH3 it is near impossible to spot and engage a single GV from a plane without F3 mode.
Not sure what you mean. If the GV is moving, or stopped in the open, it is very possible to find and bomb him without F3 mode.
As for the new GV dar, it doesn't help find a GV that is determined to hide. I flew a low, slow grid pattern over a GV "bar" in a Storch last night and never saw an icon. So, I really didn't know much more than I would have from the flashing base with no aircraft darbar.
Post by: rvflyer on November 29, 2017, 03:18:23 PM
See rule #4
Post by: bustr on November 29, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
AH2 clutter tiles had thinner tree groups and more open vistas which resulted in the AH2 spawn camping phenomenon. Using the tiniest AH3 clutter tile brush and grass, I put those open vistas back into my terrains for the GVers. Today's GVers are not the old school hardcore players we used to all know from AH2. Today's GVers tend to be more timid about going for it other than a small number of GV aces unless they are in a hoard of GVs and planes. I have a vested interest in watching GV's on my terrains to see how the micro terrain is utilized by the GVers so I can evolve the micro terrain design. Open grass vistas and grass boarders around fields has been the common fix across the board.
As for being unhappy about terrains in the game, PLEASE, if you know the secret to making a perfect AH3 utopia, build terrains instead of attacking Hitech. All those customers who make use of the center islands on NDisles and Oceania are paying $14.95 and having fun. I started building terrains because I was not having fun with the AH2 to AH3 transitioned terrains, they worked better in AH2. Once converted to AH3 no one had any idea of the pitfalls the trees would create or all of the acrimony posted over this last year here in the forums because of them. I've had to build two terrains at almost 12 months combined effort to start understanding how to use the terrain clutter tiles and other features to help game play in this new AH era of players. So if you think you can do better, build terrains and help Hitech and the community to have fun and thrive.
Post by: hitech on November 29, 2017, 03:26:24 PM
I guess everyone gets rule #4 if they express an opinion. Sorry Dale still becoming arcade game and that is fine if that is what is needed to get new players to the game.
You get ruled 4 when you post insults instead of opinions.
HiTech
Post by: puller on November 29, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
Its not a whine, The old furball squads I couldn't sit here and say I can beat any pilot in their squad in their favorite plane without any doubt in my mind....today most of the dedicated furball squads I can.
Sorry to tell you, you guys aren't nearly as good as The Few, AoM, BKs, ect ect ect used to be. Not even close....so again.... B list.
Who said we are as good as those furball only squads...did I say it...do I sit here and gloat about how good we are...do I sit here and complain about all types of stuff like you do...do my guys come here and complain and gloat like you do???
Get over yourself dude...nobody cares about your 1v1 BS...keep making yourself look stupid dude...I'm lovin it
And the only B list player here is you...B list cause your attitude and your BS...no one cares about you or what you do....Keep runnin that head maybe you'll get more than 5 guys to show up to one of your KOTH events.... :rolleyes:
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2017, 03:29:44 PM
The ability for aircraft to effectively engage GV's was lost when the Storch was introduced along with the new GV icon rules.
That is simply not true.
I constantly engage GV effectively. I frequently see GV attacks on bases stopped by air power alone. Tanks roll in, they get bombed, or busted by tank killers. Though the latter has become significantly more difficult in AH3, not because of the icons (same as in AH2), but because of the much increased tree coverage (bombs don't care about that) and the prevalence of the T-34/85.
Few things easier in this game than getting kills by lobbing a 2k bomb on a tank.
Sometimes tanks manage to hide away (again, not because of icon rnage settings), but they lost all initiative. The move, I can see and hear them. They fire, I can spot them - of course all just with a bit effort. (and when tanks manage to camp a field, it's because nobody did care about it. And if that's "griefing", so is bombing tanks. Or shooting down bombers)
Planes have all the initiative. They can chose to attack at will, the tank can just sit there and endure the bombs. The plane can decide to stay out of the Gv's weapon envelope most of the time, the the tank hardly can.
And now I'm off to kill some stuff. I think all has been said by now. :old:
Post by: bustr on November 29, 2017, 03:45:55 PM
Post by: wil3ur on November 29, 2017, 03:56:20 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
That is simply not true.
I constantly engage GV effectively. I frequently see GV attacks on bases stopped by air power alone. Tanks roll in, they get bombed, or busted by tank killers. Though the latter has become significantly more difficult in AH3, not because of the icons (same as in AH2), but because of the much increased tree coverage (bombs don't care about that) and the prevalence of the T-34/85.
Few things easier in this game than getting kills by lobbing a 2k bomb on a tank.
Sometimes tanks manage to hide away (again, not because of icon rnage settings), but they lost all initiative. The move, I can see and hear them. They fire, I can spot them - of course all just with a bit effort. (and when tanks manage to camp a field, it's because nobody did care about it. And if that's "griefing", so is bombing tanks. Or shooting down bombers)
Planes have all the initiative. They can chose to attack at will, the tank can just sit there and endure the bombs. The plane can decide to stay out of the Gv's weapon envelope most of the time, the the tank hardly can.
And now I'm off to kill some stuff. I think all has been said by now. :old:
I disagree. Unless a GV is driving to a field form an acute angle off a runway heading it won't be seen. Hell, it probably won't be seen if it's directly under the runway approach either.
don't forget that most aircraft do not have 2000 lb bombs they can drop on a tank. Most can carry only a couple of 1000 Lb bombs or equivalent at the most. A pilot only has a couple of opportunities to make an attack. If they miss, it take a while to turn around and re acquire their target - if they manage to not lose it while turning. If a GV misses a shot it take only a couple of seconds to make a follow-up shot. Not to mention that the dedicated GV hunting planes require long gun runs and very precise aim to be effective. The average player used to have the ability to engage a GV with relative competency. Now, not at all.
Post by: TDeacon on November 29, 2017, 04:30:28 PM
Just like you can tell a plane is 200 miles away in a sector.
HiTech
From this comment, and previous actions WRT GV visibility, I have to conclude one of two things; either
(1) HiTech does not feel that a GV sortie should yield the same opportunities for player satisfaction as a plane sortie, or
(2) HiTech doesn't play his own GV game, and therefore doesn't understand the feeling of helplessness one feels when interacting with AC in a GV.
I can accept the first case, as it isn't my game; it's HiTech's game. If I get sufficiently fed up, I can cancel my sub and go elsewhere. And there are still airplanes, whose sorties are enjoyable to me. But, I wish he'd say this, if (1) if what he thinks, as it would save me from making a lot of useless posts in these Forums.
MH
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 04:50:46 PM
From this comment, and previous actions WRT GV visibility, I have to conclude one of two things; either
(1) HiTech does not feel that a GV sortie should yield the same opportunities for player satisfaction as a plane sortie,
Or, maybe he believe that the "opportunities for player satisfaction" have overly favored the GV and he is now leveling the playing field.
Quote
(2) HiTech doesn't play his own GV game, and therefore doesn't understand the feeling of helplessness one feels when interacting with AC in a GV.
If you want helpless, try to fly a plane and getting zapped by a Wirb you can't see until you are in range of his guns. That it is even possible it total BS.
Post by: wil3ur on November 29, 2017, 04:53:19 PM
If you want helpless, try to fly a plane and getting zapped by a Wirb you can't see until you are in range of his guns. That it is even possible it total BS.
Or being instatowered on a an airfield from the runway without ever hearing a shot fired or an explosion, so having no idea what even happened, let alone where it came from.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 29, 2017, 04:55:13 PM
Or being instatowered on a an airfield from the runway without ever hearing a shot fired or an explosion, so having no idea what even happened, let alone where it came from.
Well I wanted to avoid talking about KilllJoy...
:devil
Post by: 8thJinx on November 29, 2017, 05:38:29 PM
Here's my thinking: GV dar signals when a GV is on the ground. It kind of mimics what some folks have mentioned, like dust clouds, tracks on the ground, etc. We can't do large dust clouds and tracks in the game, but GV dar kind of acts as the same signal ("hey, there's something down there in that 1 mile square" or whatever size it is). What if we took that further, and killed those signals when the GV was shut down or travelling under a certain speed.
Just a thought. Maybe that's a happy medium.
Final thought: imho, I can't honestly say which iteration of GV dar is/was/could be better. The ultimate goal of it should be to increase interaction, yet not cross the line into crushing how the game is played based on what you choose to fly or drive. I don't know if I'm exactly 'sad', but the current evolution will likely end the era of the long range GV mission, which some squads were well known for. On the flip side, it gives folks like me the exact spot to be if I want to lock horns in a GV with a GV. But it does seem tilted right now against the GV.
Also, the notion of "good, it should make the GV guys get up in the air and fly" is ridiculous.
Post by: 8thJinx on November 29, 2017, 05:40:57 PM
Just paint 1\2 mile boarders of grass around them and open up vistas with grass and many of the GV problems will go away. The GV's will still sneak onto the fields and into the towns but, if anyone cares to defend, it won't be so lopsided with trees making tanks invisible until it's too late to save your field.
+1
Post by: rvflyer on November 29, 2017, 05:47:35 PM
Post by: redcatcherb412 on November 29, 2017, 06:54:02 PM
OK keep GV dar but it goes out when the radar is down.Good Suggestion.
Post by: JunkyII on November 29, 2017, 07:01:48 PM
Who said we are as good as those furball only squads...did I say it...do I sit here and gloat about how good we are...Let me go back and find your post about kills in FSO and Combat Challenge....or I could just wait for someone to say it on 200....meh, nope hopefully it's pretty noticeable you are full of it by now.
Oh and I'm not involved with KOTH anymore so now you guys can show up...might learn something.
Post by: SlipKnt on November 29, 2017, 09:11:06 PM
Just paint 1\2 mile boarders of grass around them and open up vistas with grass and many of the GV problems will go away. The GV's will still sneak onto the fields and into the towns but, if anyone cares to defend, it won't be so lopsided with trees making tanks invisible until it's too late to save your field.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:aok
Post by: oakranger on November 29, 2017, 09:21:38 PM
LOL!!!! its been out what, a couple hours! Give it a chance.
Dam kids. :old:
Post by: Dundee on November 29, 2017, 10:35:46 PM
Just thinking out loud here. Aircraft in the game can completely avoid radar bar detection under a certain altitude, but it still flashes the base. What if GV dar bar detection would trigger only if the GV is travelling above a certain speed?
Here's my thinking: GV dar signals when a GV is on the ground. It kind of mimics what some folks have mentioned, like dust clouds, tracks on the ground, etc. We can't do large dust clouds and tracks in the game, but GV dar kind of acts as the same signal ("hey, there's something down there in that 1 mile square" or whatever size it is). What if we took that further, and killed those signals when the GV was shut down or travelling under a certain speed.
Just a thought. Maybe that's a happy medium.
Final thought: imho, I can't honestly say which iteration of GV dar is/was/could be better. The ultimate goal of it should be to increase interaction, yet not cross the line into crushing how the game is played based on what you choose to fly or drive. I don't know if I'm exactly 'sad', but the current evolution will likely end the era of the long range GV mission, which some squads were well known for. On the flip side, it gives folks like me the exact spot to be if I want to lock horns in a GV with a GV. But it does seem tilted right now against the GV.
Also, the notion of "good, it should make the GV guys get up in the air and fly" is ridiculous.
As a member of that long range squad you inferred to, not too much different than a long range mission in bombers traveling over the ocean. The bulk of our missions were two sectors which, when we had roads.....we could cover a sector in M3's in just under 30 min, so a 2 sector mission involved about an hour drive, and we know some bombers can take 2 hours and 30 min worth of fuel at full power, cutting back on RPMs you can get about 3 hours of flight time. The people doing the complaining didn't want to spend that amount of time to duplicate what we chose to do...is that wrong, did we need to change the rules to prevent our actions? Or is it more proper to tell the players man up, deal with it or do what they are doing.
We see where rules, hardness, the amount of trees and now the addition of tank radar is not been put into place to enhance game play but to hinder what a particular squad was very good at. I think the changes that were put into place and did what they were intended to, the sad realization the new changes impacted more than just our squad it's made the game less than what AH II was. The changes IMO were made so the fur ballers wouldn't have to stop what they like doing and deal with another group that was doing what they like doing...Both were paying the same monthly fee to do that, but one faction is playing a more difficult game due to the changes mentioned above than the other. I know the game is constantly being developed, but I see this development moving in a certain direction and that is to hamper GV operations in this game. I mean the GV's in the game are hampered with all the extra foliage put in here to hamper them, but in reality it really hampered the defenders as well. Another fix in the game that was supposed fix a problem and actually caused a bigger one.
We had night time when this game launched and it was for quite a few minutes, now it's like less than a minute, shortened because people complained they couln't see...I think it was pretty much a two way street there as the opponent had the same difficulties. The introduction of Icons for Bombers and Tanks was a real step backwards...When a dar showed an aircraft you had to fly there and see what it was.......not now if you see fighter flying to a strat no one ups to do anything..The game was way better when we had just dots and not craft identification. The people who fly fighters in this game get way too much attention when complaints come up. When you cater to one faction in the game the other factions get screwed.... But hey it's not my game and HiTech will run it the way they see fit...weather it's really good for the game as a whole, or for just one faction is going to be what determines how successful this game will be in the future.... The introduction of Steam, I thought, would bring in a lot more players. The arenas were bumped from a max of 500 to 1,000 I personally haven't seen over 275 players in the game. One of the biggest problems is the availability of information on how this game actually works...The new people can't find where the dot commands are listed. I would like to know the hardness of the ships in this game, they are not listed in the game like HQ and other buildings, what's with that? The new people got little or no help in this game, and as a customer it not my job to do that when I playing the game. It's not surprising the 2 weeker's played the game and left, and from the BB on Steam it's apparent that work needs to be done on informing the player base how the game is played. The old timers are not going to give up their secrets on how the do things in here and that bears out on steams BB, that a real problem.
The game does need some changes...for it to survive.......... so far I have not seen any of the changes moving in that direction from my point of view. This is my view, not the squads view, , what's left of it. People have left for many reasons some of them I pointed out here. It's a game, it's entertainment, I think when it stops being entertaining to folks they leave because there are other games that compete for that entertainment dollar. In the business world it cost very little to keep a customer.....it cost much, much more to find a new one and keep them.
Post by: Devil 505 on November 30, 2017, 12:18:50 AM
Post by: Ciaphas on November 30, 2017, 12:29:49 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Crash Orange on November 30, 2017, 12:40:20 AM
It still seems like all of this is, as Bustr said, a lot of work to compensate for the real problem, which is the terrain. It changed from AH2 to AH3 and the change turned out to be bad for the game. So why not just fix the terrain and leave the GV radar out of it? I though vehicles worked fine in AH2, but they're definitely broken now.
Realism is still a silly argument. Realism is fine for the modeling - how fast a certain tank is, how easily X gun could penetrate Y armor at Z distance - but as far as the larger game it's silly to talk about realism in WW2 armored warfare when you take infantry out of the picture. As for visibility, when we have monitors capable of the same resolution as the Mark I Human Eyeball we can talk about realism and icons. Until then no realism is possible in this regard. (And even then, you'd still have the problem that most of us are aging dudes who are WAY too blind to be combat pilots!)
Post by: rvflyer on November 30, 2017, 02:36:00 AM
As a member of that long range squad you inferred to, not too much different than a long range mission in bombers traveling over the ocean. The bulk of our missions were two sectors which, when we had roads.....we could cover a sector in M3's in just under 30 min, so a 2 sector mission involved about an hour drive, and we know some bombers can take 2 hours and 30 min worth of fuel at full power, cutting back on RPMs you can get about 3 hours of flight time. The people doing the complaining didn't want to spend that amount of time to duplicate what we chose to do...is that wrong, did we need to change the rules to prevent our actions? Or is it more proper to tell the players man up, deal with it or do what they are doing.
We see where rules, hardness, the amount of trees and now the addition of tank radar is not been put into place to enhance game play but to hinder what a particular squad was very good at. I think the changes that were put into place and did what they were intended to, the sad realization the new changes impacted more than just our squad it's made the game less than what AH II was. The changes IMO were made so the fur ballers wouldn't have to stop what they like doing and deal with another group that was doing what they like doing...Both were paying the same monthly fee to do that, but one faction is playing a more difficult game due to the changes mentioned above than the other. I know the game is constantly being developed, but I see this development moving in a certain direction and that is to hamper GV operations in this game. I mean the GV's in the game are hampered with all the extra foliage put in here to hamper them, but in reality it really hampered the defenders as well. Another fix in the game that was supposed fix a problem and actually caused a bigger one.
We had night time when this game launched and it was for quite a few minutes, now it's like less than a minute, shortened because people complained they couln't see...I think it was pretty much a two way street there as the opponent had the same difficulties. The introduction of Icons for Bombers and Tanks was a real step backwards...When a dar showed an aircraft you had to fly there and see what it was.......not now if you see fighter flying to a strat no one ups to do anything..The game was way better when we had just dots and not craft identification. The people who fly fighters in this game get way too much attention when complaints come up. When you cater to one faction in the game the other factions get screwed.... But hey it's not my game and HiTech will run it the way they see fit...weather it's really good for the game as a whole, or for just one faction is going to be what determines how successful this game will be in the future.... The introduction of Steam, I thought, would bring in a lot more players. The arenas were bumped from a max of 500 to 1,000 I personally haven't seen over 275 players in the game. One of the biggest problems is the availability of information on how this game actually works...The new people can't find where the dot commands are listed. I would like to know the hardness of the ships in this game, they are not listed in the game like HQ and other buildings, what's with that? The new people got little or no help in this game, and as a customer it not my job to do that when I playing the game. It's not surprising the 2 weeker's played the game and left, and from the BB on Steam it's apparent that work needs to be done on informing the player base how the game is played. The old timers are not going to give up their secrets on how the do things in here and that bears out on steams BB, that a real problem.
The game does need some changes...for it to survive.......... so far I have not seen any of the changes moving in that direction from my point of view. This is my view, not the squads view, , what's left of it. People have left for many reasons some of them I pointed out here. It's a game, it's entertainment, I think when it stops being entertaining to folks they leave because there are other games that compete for that entertainment dollar. In the business world it cost very little to keep a customer.....it cost much, much more to find a new one and keep them.
Post by: Scca on November 30, 2017, 04:57:12 AM
Chill folks, give it a chance. If it doesn't work, it will be adjusted.
Post by: molybdenum on November 30, 2017, 06:40:07 AM
I appreciate that Hitech is willing to change things to see how they work. The constant tweaking, to me, is a good thing.
Chill folks, give it a chance. If it doesn't work, it will be adjusted.
I didn't play yesterday so I was unaware of the new GV dar square thing until I passed over a base at 23k this morning. Seriously. 23k and a plane can know a GV is there?
HiTech is indeed trying different tweaks with the game, but it seems like every single damn' one of them is meant to please the furball crowd and disadvantage the GVer/bomber pilot. What I like to do (help people take bases and/or be clever and stealthy) is hamstrung with this latest great idea. I beyond hate it.
Post by: Scca on November 30, 2017, 06:45:46 AM
I beyond hate it.
I played last night, but didn't know about it, so I didn't look for it. Will reserve judgement until I see it from both sides, GV and air.
That said, I still think that over time adjustments will be made, just like white flag % down, GV icons, and M3 with/without troops.
Post by: capera on November 30, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
Totally agree.
Here is my opinion....take it for what it's worth.
Aces High III is an amazing simulator with tons of potential.....but as we are all witnessing, our community is dwindling. Opening up the Steam doors was supposed to inject a new life into the sim, but as we see by numbers and comments in here, this is not the answer to growth. A strong community and fairness in game, is what people seek.
I have been a customer of Hitech Creations since 2001. Flying AH, as with most in here, has become a daily routine and for the most part, an enjoyable pass time. But.....as with everything, there are areas for improvement.
There are some apparent issues, in my humble opinion, that is causing the 'player' to leave Aces High. ***Please...do not take this as an attach on AH or Hitech and his work. My intent is constructive feedback, as this sim and community matters to me.
Several issues plaguing AH ......
Documentation
As I read comments, and see "in game" help requests, I am always bewildered how a new player has a chance to survive, unless he/she gets attached to a Squadron that is willing to train them.
Two years ago, I started working with the 49th Fighter Group. At that point of time, I had 14 years under my belt and where I thought I was functional, I soon learned that there was much game information that I was NOT aware of. DOT COMMANDS for example. What great information to have at hand while you play the sim. Structure down times, Country factory down times...etc...all available to players that are AWARE of it. 14 years I spent hours in this sim, and it has been just that past two years where I learned about and how to use dot commands. Now, unless I missed it....I have never seen these command listed on the Hitech Creations website or in my enrollment documentation. Here I was....14 years in...and I had to wing up with another Squadron just to find out about this in-game ability. Now take the new player into consideration.....how is he going to stand a chance against us Vets....when we have all the tools in OUR toolbox and they are flying on a wing and a prayer.
ALL customers should have the same information available to them, if we expect any kind of fair playing field. We are all paying customers and we all deserve the same product for the $14.95 a month subscription. The customer should not have to "make friends in game" in order to have ALL the options of the sim available to them.
Constant modifications to Ground Vehicles...and how they can be seen
Well...this is an interesting topic. Years and years....the ground vehicles in AHII, pretty straight forward. Players that liked to GV did...and people that like to fly...did.
Then the 49th Fighter Group introduced a whole different tactical approach to Aces High. Those of us that have been here, we know what they did. For those that are new, the 49th would mount up in a set of tanks, and drive for 2 hours across a sector or two....and skillfully commence an attack a Strat or Headquarters.
As I started working with the 49ers, I soon realized that there was much more to this sim, than basic fur balling. These guys were taking the sim to another level. Drive for 2 hours, sometimes more, to a target and effectively take it down. Sounds like a great addition to the sim....right? Well...... as we all know.....not well received by the players on the other countries. Players complained that the 49er's were ruining the game and it didn't take long, before Hitech Creations stepped in...and started putting obstacles in place, to deter the 49er from dropping the enemy HQ. 1st I think he changed the hardness so that it would take excessive amount of ordnance to drop it. The 49ers came back.....delivered that new raised ord requirement to target, and once again, people complained and HiTech stepped in again and I believe that time, lowered the downtime from 180 min....to 5 min. Essentially killing the 49er's approach to the sim. One of the largest Squadrons in game, if not the largest.........and Hitech did exactly what 8thJinx said we shouldnt do....crush how the game is played, for over 50 players. It could of been a good thing, you know.....maybe Hitech could of worked WITH the 49er....seen the potential to add to the sim....and then come up with a logical solution. One that would work for everyone, but what happened was......the ones that complained we taken care of, and the 49ers activities.....were crushed.
What confuses me is......why discourage tactical game play. Yes....HUGE inconvenience for the enemy when HQ gets dropped. War is HELL.....and having the enemy attaching your factories and HQ does have impact on the overall war. I think the problem was mainly because the people that are flying (furballing) would of have to stop their activity to contend with what the 49ers was delivering. I do understand their frustration, as there was no defense capabilities at these facilities. So....the player would have to fly into the strat, just to defend it. Time consuming and not the most effective way to defend a valuable asset....like a country's factorys or Headquarters.
So...what would of been the better solution? How about this....why not just put DEFENSE capabilities @ the HQ or Strat?? ie: vehicle hanger, man guns...etc.....and then.....DEFEND your country's assets. It is easy to complain about something, much harder to address the issue with a contructive mindset. Complaining to the developer of the sim and getting settings changed, IMHO, was a terrible solution. The owner of this business just CRUSHED the 'legit' gameplay of many many of his customers. What happens when a service provider makes their customers unhappy and the customer feels he/she is not valued......... they leave.
Think if Hitech put in those defense capabilities at HQ and Strats, how COOL that would be. Players would then have defense capabilities, as we do with air fields and vehicle bases. We are trying to simulate an era....and what real country would have zero defense at a HQ, other than auto ack. Put some MANNED GUNS there. Vehicle Hanger so the enemy can roll tanks to DEFEND. Isn't that the name of the game? But....Hitech Creations choose to use settings modifications to deal address this situation and an opportunity was missed to enhance this sim. It really is too bad.
It now seems that every possible thing is being done to help the player that is in the air, easily find you on the ground. Speaking as a guy in a tank....this is not good for my longevity. I need more concealment abilities, as to survive the ever-life-ending dive bomb from a tank hunter. Hitech put in a pile of trees, which helped us.....but then when the players that were not willing to invest the EFFORT to find you, they complain....and once again....settings and adding unrealistic DAR systems....to help easily locate your position. Sorry....but it just CRUSHES the idea behind tanks. Concealment is a huge part of our survival. In WWII.....was there radar so Aircraft could locate tanks? No....they needed to WORK and LOOK for tanks. Not rely on a clipboard information system, that allows a player to pinpoint my location....and therefore kill the element of surprise.
Conclusion
So back to 8thJinx's comment..."The ultimate goal of it should be to increase interaction, yet not cross the line into crushing how the game is played based on what you choose to fly or drive........ Well, the 49th tried to encourage interaction and hoped you folks would of defended, instead of complaining to AH HQ. After all....are we not all here, to battle each other.....hopefully on a even playing field.
We all have different interest, within the sim....but ONE thing we all should have in common....is to want to enhance this sim and community. Players/people want to be ensured that there is fairness and that they are part of the process. Customers matter. Without customers, you have no legs to have a successful business. Customer's feedback....priceless. I have been a paying customer for a long time. I just wish there was a safe place to provide constructive feedback, without the backlash one usually gets here on the forums. 188 posts is all I have over here....as it has been my experience that if you post anything on here, and try to point out areas for improvement.....the regular trolls will be first in line to jump all over you.
AHIII....amazing platform. Potential off the charts............but I am afraid until there is cooperation and working together attitude, this sim will dwindle down to a core level of players....and acquiring new 'long term' players will be next to impossible.
There is room for both air-jocks and ground pounders......but lets not put limitation barriers on one of the two groups. Work WITH the people that love to GV...and see what ideas they have, then find a fair, logical solution. Do not just crush their passion to be tankers.
Peace,
capera
Post by: Flayed1 on November 30, 2017, 01:43:26 PM
I would like to suggest that this current dar grid be linked to enemy players in the grid with you, like a "you have been spotted" effect and if there is no enemy in the grid with you then you remain undetected. And to help with the sneaking right on into town or what have you, have the grid dar fully functional right around town and field as if personnel or towns folk had spotted the raid coming in and sounded the alarm. Over all I don't mind the GV dar that much but it feels a bit like overkill in some respects. I think this would allow for a bit more flexibility as well by being able to set the detector range from planes, other gvs and filds and towns.
Anyway just trying to be constructive and look for a bit more of a middle ground between being nearly invisible and the current "I have a tracking device in my tank that continuously updates my position on the map" thing we have now.
Post by: Kanth on November 30, 2017, 02:30:18 PM
That and maybe detaching base capture areas from spawn areas and making spawn area ack indestructible.
This way if a vehicle is approaching a spawn area, even if he's hiding behind the angle of a building, the ack will be firing on him the whole time pointing him out to folks spawning.
everyone's free to go hunt everyone else and take bases without any spawn camping.
let them sneak around but pay for trying to spawn camp...is the summary..
I think you, bustr, have an excellent point about developing more maps too.
The GVDAR probably was never needed if Waffle had just put a 1\2 mile band of grass around every town and base when the AH2 maps were converted to AH3. Using grass to open up the 6sq mile micro combat terrain from the GV spawn to the target base would have helped both the GVers and air combat folks. After two terrains using this philosophy, I didn't need the GVDAR at least on my terrains to quickly find GVs with an IL2. And those same GV's, the players who are good at tanking, still wing shot me with their main gun from hiding like they do if they are in the open grass 1\2 mile boarder strips. GVers who have mastered using the AH3 trees to hide in will be hard to find even with the GVDAR. Three of us spent 30 minutes flying a search grid over a 2mile GVDAR block at low alt and never found the GV creating the DAR block. And it was on my terrain Oceania with the opened grass vistas. There are individual tree clump types GV's can shut down inside of that 99% mask them until you drive up to them on the ground unless Hitech introduces enemy GVDOTDAR.
Post by: bustr on November 30, 2017, 02:37:03 PM
Fester didn't think anyone would do that with GV's on his giant furballing map I'm betting. And probably why he exposed his HQ and city to as much abuse as they received. It looks like he thought the HQ and city would make a great honey pot for 163 kills which would place a self limiter on greifers with bombers. Turned out no one wanted to spend their $14.95 by defending the HQ "all night long" and that got abused. If Hitech had asked Waffle to move the HQ back even a 1\2 sector, most of those problems would have gone away. Moving the HQ or any other strat takes 5 seconds and then you just run a build to lock in the change and post a new res file. Hitech probably liked the scenario that the HQ location would generate activity, just not the abusive kind it was getting.
There was the "life of it's own" problem that gained momentum from the constant taking down of the HQ on the Fester map that spilled over to all the other maps. No one was forking over $14.95 to spend their night having to hunt for one single finger salute greifer after another. It was reaching the point they would have to play AH glued to the HQs for every map in rotation because a "minority of players" were forcing them to not enjoy their $14.95 doing other things with their time. Goes along with the CHog HOing scourge and how that effected the community and got it perked, or the AH1 JSO that abused the game and got us ENY. A minority of players were dictating the whole nights outcome for countries out of proportion to the effect any single player should have against a whole country by leveraging a weakness in the game no one thought mattered. Strategic chuckholdery is one of the evils of two sided war strategy games because the only goal is to screw the other side and win at any cost. If you every build terrains for AH3, balance is demanded by HTC as a rule for getting your masterpiece into rotation.
You can still drop the city to 0% and all the strats to 0% which will strategically impact a whole country. It will cost you time and effort in proportion to the size of that job versus the single finger salute that was keeping countries blinded all night almost every night for months by a minority of players.
Creating a new HQ object that becomes a defend able base in it's own right does what? Do you still want it to blind a country if you destroy it or, now that it can be manned to defend it, a capture able object accomplishing "what"? Sounds like the real direction of the 49ers complaint is one of turning the game into a two country style strategic chuckholdery game where the current object paradigm is redefined so winning the war can be achieved without having to battle across the map against players and personally take their fields away from them. A new paradigm with a secondary war win scenario option, just strategically destroy x,y,z objectives and tell the two countries it's their own fault they didn't think to defend them from sneakier smarter players.
Post by: molybdenum on November 30, 2017, 09:51:24 PM
AHIII....amazing platform. Potential off the charts............but I am afraid until there is cooperation and working together attitude, this sim will dwindle down to a core level of players....and acquiring new 'long term' players will be next to impossible.
AH seems to be trying to cater to a core audience in order to bring in new blood of a similar ilk at the expense of players who don't meet his "core" definition. I could easily be wrong about this, but if I'm not...
The problem with bringing in new blood to AH3 is the steep learning curve + the expertise of long term players. ANYone can be a bomber pilot with a minimum of practice; most anyone can GV effectively with a little less practice. But honing fighter skills takes time and equipment many of us do not have. I suspect that a major reason Steam initiates did not stick around after the free two weeks is because they were guppies thrown into a shark tank and there was no entertainment value in being snacked upon.
So! My (biased) conclusion is that HT needs to move AWAY from the vocal, loyal fighter pilot minority that wants fresh blood to feed upon and toward a more all-inclusive milleu in which all aspects of the game are promoted, none at the expense of the others. As long as the game exists there will be long term, relatively high-skilled fighter pilots with whom to fight, though nowadays you need to look harder for them than before, But to build a critical mass of new players you have to make them LIKE the game. And they won't like it if they just keep getting killed over and over. And that's one reason why the GV dar has to go. It is far too easy to kill a GV even as it is if you know what you are doing. Why make it orders of magnitude even easier?
Post by: 1MADDOG1 on December 01, 2017, 01:37:04 AM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 01, 2017, 01:40:15 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:46:45 AM
8thJinx wrote..." The ultimate goal of it should be to increase interaction, yet not cross the line into crushing how the game is played based on what you choose to fly or drive. "
Totally agree.
Here is my opinion....take it for what it's worth.
Aces High III is an amazing simulator with tons of potential.....but as we are all witnessing, our community is dwindling. Opening up the Steam doors was supposed to inject a new life into the sim, but as we see by numbers and comments in here, this is not the answer to growth. A strong community and fairness in game, is what people seek.
I have been a customer of Hitech Creations since 2001. Flying AH, as with most in here, has become a daily routine and for the most part, an enjoyable pass time. But.....as with everything, there are areas for improvement.
There are some apparent issues, in my humble opinion, that is causing the 'player' to leave Aces High. ***Please...do not take this as an attach on AH or Hitech and his work. My intent is constructive feedback, as this sim and community matters to me.
Several issues plaguing AH ......
Documentation
As I read comments, and see "in game" help requests, I am always bewildered how a new player has a chance to survive, unless he/she gets attached to a Squadron that is willing to train them.
Two years ago, I started working with the 49th Fighter Group. At that point of time, I had 14 years under my belt and where I thought I was functional, I soon learned that there was much game information that I was NOT aware of. DOT COMMANDS for example. What great information to have at hand while you play the sim. Structure down times, Country factory down times...etc...all available to players that are AWARE of it. 14 years I spent hours in this sim, and it has been just that past two years where I learned about and how to use dot commands. Now, unless I missed it....I have never seen these command listed on the Hitech Creations website or in my enrollment documentation. Here I was....14 years in...and I had to wing up with another Squadron just to find out about this in-game ability. Now take the new player into consideration.....how is he going to stand a chance against us Vets....when we have all the tools in OUR toolbox and they are flying on a wing and a prayer.
ALL customers should have the same information available to them, if we expect any kind of fair playing field. We are all paying customers and we all deserve the same product for the $14.95 a month subscription. The customer should not have to "make friends in game" in order to have ALL the options of the sim available to them.
Constant modifications to Ground Vehicles...and how they can be seen
Well...this is an interesting topic. Years and years....the ground vehicles in AHII, pretty straight forward. Players that liked to GV did...and people that like to fly...did.
Then the 49th Fighter Group introduced a whole different tactical approach to Aces High. Those of us that have been here, we know what they did. For those that are new, the 49th would mount up in a set of tanks, and drive for 2 hours across a sector or two....and skillfully commence an attack a Strat or Headquarters.
As I started working with the 49ers, I soon realized that there was much more to this sim, than basic fur balling. These guys were taking the sim to another level. Drive for 2 hours, sometimes more, to a target and effectively take it down. Sounds like a great addition to the sim....right? Well...... as we all know.....not well received by the players on the other countries. Players complained that the 49er's were ruining the game and it didn't take long, before Hitech Creations stepped in...and started putting obstacles in place, to deter the 49er from dropping the enemy HQ. 1st I think he changed the hardness so that it would take excessive amount of ordnance to drop it. The 49ers came back.....delivered that new raised ord requirement to target, and once again, people complained and HiTech stepped in again and I believe that time, lowered the downtime from 180 min....to 5 min. Essentially killing the 49er's approach to the sim. One of the largest Squadrons in game, if not the largest.........and Hitech did exactly what 8thJinx said we shouldnt do....crush how the game is played, for over 50 players. It could of been a good thing, you know.....maybe Hitech could of worked WITH the 49er....seen the potential to add to the sim....and then come up with a logical solution. One that would work for everyone, but what happened was......the ones that complained we taken care of, and the 49ers activities.....were crushed.
What confuses me is......why discourage tactical game play. Yes....HUGE inconvenience for the enemy when HQ gets dropped. War is HELL.....and having the enemy attaching your factories and HQ does have impact on the overall war. I think the problem was mainly because the people that are flying (furballing) would of have to stop their activity to contend with what the 49ers was delivering. I do understand their frustration, as there was no defense capabilities at these facilities. So....the player would have to fly into the strat, just to defend it. Time consuming and not the most effective way to defend a valuable asset....like a country's factorys or Headquarters.
So...what would of been the better solution? How about this....why not just put DEFENSE capabilities @ the HQ or Strat?? ie: vehicle hanger, man guns...etc.....and then.....DEFEND your country's assets. It is easy to complain about something, much harder to address the issue with a contructive mindset. Complaining to the developer of the sim and getting settings changed, IMHO, was a terrible solution. The owner of this business just CRUSHED the 'legit' gameplay of many many of his customers. What happens when a service provider makes their customers unhappy and the customer feels he/she is not valued......... they leave.
Think if Hitech put in those defense capabilities at HQ and Strats, how COOL that would be. Players would then have defense capabilities, as we do with air fields and vehicle bases. We are trying to simulate an era....and what real country would have zero defense at a HQ, other than auto ack. Put some MANNED GUNS there. Vehicle Hanger so the enemy can roll tanks to DEFEND. Isn't that the name of the game? But....Hitech Creations choose to use settings modifications to deal address this situation and an opportunity was missed to enhance this sim. It really is too bad.
It now seems that every possible thing is being done to help the player that is in the air, easily find you on the ground. Speaking as a guy in a tank....this is not good for my longevity. I need more concealment abilities, as to survive the ever-life-ending dive bomb from a tank hunter. Hitech put in a pile of trees, which helped us.....but then when the players that were not willing to invest the EFFORT to find you, they complain....and once again....settings and adding unrealistic DAR systems....to help easily locate your position. Sorry....but it just CRUSHES the idea behind tanks. Concealment is a huge part of our survival. In WWII.....was there radar so Aircraft could locate tanks? No....they needed to WORK and LOOK for tanks. Not rely on a clipboard information system, that allows a player to pinpoint my location....and therefore kill the element of surprise.
Conclusion
So back to 8thJinx's comment..."The ultimate goal of it should be to increase interaction, yet not cross the line into crushing how the game is played based on what you choose to fly or drive........ Well, the 49th tried to encourage interaction and hoped you folks would of defended, instead of complaining to AH HQ. After all....are we not all here, to battle each other.....hopefully on a even playing field.
We all have different interest, within the sim....but ONE thing we all should have in common....is to want to enhance this sim and community. Players/people want to be ensured that there is fairness and that they are part of the process. Customers matter. Without customers, you have no legs to have a successful business. Customer's feedback....priceless. I have been a paying customer for a long time. I just wish there was a safe place to provide constructive feedback, without the backlash one usually gets here on the forums. 188 posts is all I have over here....as it has been my experience that if you post anything on here, and try to point out areas for improvement.....the regular trolls will be first in line to jump all over you.
AHIII....amazing platform. Potential off the charts............but I am afraid until there is cooperation and working together attitude, this sim will dwindle down to a core level of players....and acquiring new 'long term' players will be next to impossible.
There is room for both air-jocks and ground pounders......but lets not put limitation barriers on one of the two groups. Work WITH the people that love to GV...and see what ideas they have, then find a fair, logical solution. Do not just crush their passion to be tankers.
Peace,
capera
Well said 99Capera.... well said
Post by: thndregg on December 01, 2017, 06:12:03 AM
Something was really, almost mortally lost in the transition to 3.
A series of risks were taken, and it has taken a huge bite of player base from the game.
The recovery is much slower, if at all existent, than the transition from 1 to 2. I remember those days.
Just posting a bomber mission of only five players does not draw anyone from the "line of ants", fight. (That's literally what it looks like on the map, to the point of "what do we do now?" if the spawn chain ends.)
Extremely few of the current generation appreciate the patience it takes to open a new front, throw the enemy off, be unpredictable, provoke a new fight, or simply the concept of "It takes starting from point 'A' to get to point 'B'. You can't just spawn in there".
I really miss the days when we had folks like my old BOPS XO "Shubie", who would entertain us with little historical tidbits behind some the aircraft & vehicles we would take on missions- even the old hangar queens.
Sigh..
Post by: molybdenum on December 01, 2017, 07:13:19 AM
GV Dar, one of the reasons I just cancelled my subs.You're porkypig and crew, right? I switched to bish to give a rook a couple of perk tank kills so he could get an achievement and saw two (now fellow) bish GV icons NE of the port. Of course I didn't say anything to anyone, but I was very surprised you'd even try a take like that with the new GV dar thing. I'm guessing it didn't go well...
I'm hoping HT swiftly realizes what a bad idea this was and gets rid of it. You won't be the only one gone if he doesn't.
Post by: 1MADDOG1 on December 01, 2017, 07:35:44 AM
You're porkypig and crew, right? I switched to bish to give a rook a couple of perk tank kills so he could get an achievement and saw two (now fellow) bish GV icons NE of the port. Of course I didn't say anything to anyone, but I was very surprised you'd even try a take like that with the new GV dar thing. I'm guessing it didn't go well...
I'm hoping HT swiftly realizes what a bad idea this was and gets rid of it. You won't be the only one gone if he doesn't.
Yep, that was me in the TigerII and a M3 with sups. It was a waste to bring it up but wanted to prove a point. Wasn't long before there were 6+ peeps involved in the search. Those guys didn't even bother to drop some KY with all those eggs. :rofl Anyway, too much has been fixed that wasn't broke starting with HQ down times to the Vehicle gaydar. For some of us older folks, it's like when Ford went from the Mustangs to the Mustang Ghia, a great concept, to something unrecognizable and undesired.
Post by: Max on December 01, 2017, 07:51:33 AM
GV Dar, one of the reasons I just cancelled my subs.
Sorry to see you leave the game Maddog. You were always a snoutful of giggles. <S>
Post by: popeye on December 01, 2017, 09:19:38 AM
Yep, that was me in the TigerII and a M3 with sups. It was a waste to bring it up but wanted to prove a point. Wasn't long before there were 6+ peeps involved in the search. Those guys didn't even bother to drop some KY with all those eggs. :rofl
That was a hoot! :rofl :rofl :rofl
:salute
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 10:34:45 AM
Yep, that was me in the TigerII and a M3 with sups. It was a waste to bring it up but wanted to prove a point. Wasn't long before there were 6+ peeps involved in the search. Those guys didn't even bother to drop some KY with all those eggs. :rofl Anyway, too much has been fixed that wasn't broke starting with HQ down times to the Vehicle gaydar. For some of us older folks, it's like when Ford went from the Mustangs to the Mustang Ghia, a great concept, to something unrecognizable and undesired.
Sadly your not the only one who thinks that way, nor are you the only one who has left this game for all those reasons......and I'm sure there will be more in the future
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 10:41:49 AM
:aok
Post by: Zoney on December 01, 2017, 10:43:46 AM
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
Observe, adapt, overcome.
We do...........then they change the game, enough is enough
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 10:56:52 AM
I think this would solve all the current complaints.
Post by: RODBUSTR on December 01, 2017, 11:07:30 AM
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 11:18:11 AM
I still say, the way the majority of people are playing now days avoiding any combat, bailing at the first sign of adversity, changing where an attack is going because there's defenders... hiding and spawn camping to show how 1337 your skills are etc... that we need a co-op arena with drones that only do loops like the offline arena so all the guys can get together, club seals, sneak bases without opposition, and avoid combat at all costs while still looking cool to their buddies.
I think this would solve all the current complaints.
Close. The drones need to attempt to take off and try to shoot at people, but with really poor accuracy so at worst you might lose an aileron or flap, but nothing that will actually stop them from being able to take the base like a fuel leak or pilot wound. They also need to have a few people monitoring the other side to send the players the occasional rage PM posing as one of the drones to make sure they feel good about themselves, also they need to rage on 200 about how awesome and unstoppable the skills of the human team are as they take the drone-"defended" bases.
Pretty sure that'd keep most of the stealth players happy.
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:18:59 AM
I still say, the way the majority of people are playing now days avoiding any combat, bailing at the first sign of adversity, changing where an attack is going because there's defenders... hiding and spawn camping to show how 1337 your skills are etc... that we need a co-op arena with drones that only do loops like the offline arena so all the guys can get together, club seals, sneak bases without opposition, and avoid combat at all costs while still looking cool to their buddies.
I think this would solve all the current complaints.
AH II was a far better game.........than the arcade thing we have now.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 01, 2017, 11:22:50 AM
The new generation of gamers want instant action. The start up videos are "in your face" because everyone knows the newbies are not going to look for them. The new mouse controls are to make it easier for a newb without a stick fly or drive in the game. The new Dar is to make it easier to find GVs so the newbies can get some instant action.
If it helps to keep new players I'm ok with adapting to some changes.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:23:08 AM
I still say, the way the majority of people are playing now days avoiding any combat, bailing at the first sign of adversity, changing where an attack is going because there's defenders... hiding and spawn camping to show how 1337 your skills are etc... that we need a co-op arena with drones that only do loops like the offline arena so all the guys can get together, club seals, sneak bases without opposition, and avoid combat at all costs while still looking cool to their buddies.
I think this would solve all the current complaints.
The same could be said for the Air Jocks who wanted a GV radar because they are too lazy to get out of their planes and fight us on the ground....instead you impede the GV'er. Keep it up and tank town is going to look like a ghost town.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:24:37 AM
I applaud Hitech for making changes. Are they all good? maybe not, but they are all geared toward making it easier to find action.
The new generation of gamers want instant action. The start up videos are "in your face" because everyone knows the newbies are not going to look for them. The new mouse controls are to make it easier for a newb without a stick fly or drive in the game. The new Dar is to make it easier to find GVs so the newbies can get some instant action.
If it helps to keep new players I'm ok with adapting to some changes.
Keep new player from where? and fun for who...........?
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 11:24:44 AM
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 11:25:38 AM
The same could be said for the Air Jocks who wanted a GV radar because they are too lazy to get out of their planes and fight us on the ground....instead you impede the GV'er. Keep it up and tank town is going to look like a ghost town.
Nah, I'll just up an IL2 or Jabbo and shoot you the old fashioned way from the air like I've always done. I haven't needed dar in the past and won't need it now. :airplane: :old:
Post by: Chilli on December 01, 2017, 11:26:13 AM
Terrains (all terrains, regardless of their size) are huge in terms of places that a vehicle may go. Without some sort of aid, either in icon range, visibility, or the GV dar, the chances in locating a menacing threat becomes a lesson in futility way too often.
Why not have impregnable forests or swamps instead, to funnel the traffic through more lightly forested routes. This should open up the possibilities for larger and quicker battles.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 11:32:11 AM
Testing the AI during the beta, those AI at times had me on 200 asking who the vet was hiding in the pack, there was only me in the roster. I've run into AI that would eat some of this generations vets who don't want to fight. I tested a giant bomber mission over Europe AI war with so many AI fighters ranging around the giant bomber stream that I thought I was in an FSO. And I got chased out of the sky by AI 109's I thought were muppets. Once again I was the only human in the roster.
Yeah but they can also turn them down to "numpty".
Wiley.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 01, 2017, 11:33:44 AM
Keep new player from where? and fun for who...........?
in another thread Hitech posted. that in the last 100 days there have been 40,000 downloads of the game, 20,000 of them actually logged in and in the first 30 minutes on line 75% of them quit never to return.
The game needs to be a bit more user friendly for this new generation. Tactics and strategies is what is going to the challenge back into the game. It's up to use to figure these new tricks out leaving the ease of start up for the new guys
Post by: Krusty on December 01, 2017, 11:34:34 AM
Something maybe a side note or maybe the root of the Ground Vehicle "imbalance" in AH3. The terrains are FULL of trees and barriers to restrict visibility. The best way for success is to position vehicle in a "sniper" location nearest to a spawn or town or base and sit quietly.
Terrains (all terrains, regardless of their size) are huge in terms of places that a vehicle may go. Without some sort of aid, either in icon range, visibility, or the GV dar, the chances in locating a menacing threat becomes a lesson in futility way too often.
Why not have impregnable forests or swamps instead, to funnel the traffic through more lightly forested routes. This should open up the possibilities for larger and quicker battles.
The reason why not is because it would be a painstakingly long process to perfect just ONE route from a spawn to one base.... now multiply that by 100 spawn points at 50 other fields, then times 3 countries. The amount of time it takes would mean no map ever gets added to the game. Then if there's any changes to tilesets or objects that might impact the terrain, the time to QA each and every existing map to make sure any impacts were acceptable would take hundreds of man hours and notes just to look at an existing map!
Ideally it would be cool to have something like Karelia where you have water passings that must use bridges to cross -- allowing you to risk getting bogged in the marsh crossings if the bridge is bombed out or if there's a tank guarding the bottleneck (aka the bridge) on the other side. Give good cause for players to take LvTs so they could cross water hazards without needing that bridge.
But that was a long time ago and that map is no longer usable in AH. To re-create something like that would take years of personal sacrifice and most of it would go unappreciated or even unused.
That's basically why-not. Takes too much time and effort on a massive scale to pull that kind of thing off.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:50:26 AM
The reason why not is because it would be a painstakingly long process to perfect just ONE route from a spawn to one base.... now multiply that by 100 spawn points at 50 other fields, then times 3 countries. The amount of time it takes would mean no map ever gets added to the game. Then if there's any changes to tilesets or objects that might impact the terrain, the time to QA each and every existing map to make sure any impacts were acceptable would take hundreds of man hours and notes just to look at an existing map!
Ideally it would be cool to have something like Karelia where you have water passings that must use bridges to cross -- allowing you to risk getting bogged in the marsh crossings if the bridge is bombed out or if there's a tank guarding the bottleneck (aka the bridge) on the other side. Give good cause for players to take LvTs so they could cross water hazards without needing that bridge.
But that was a long time ago and that map is no longer usable in AH. To re-create something like that would take years of personal sacrifice and most of it would go unappreciated or even unused.
That's basically why-not. Takes too much time and effort on a massive scale to pull that kind of thing off.
Hell of a price to pay for eye candy......
Post by: Lusche on December 01, 2017, 11:51:22 AM
want easier gc v gv or ac v gv. simple.........less trees.
The world is coming to an end - I agree with RB :uhoh
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:52:36 AM
Yeah.... I mean in WW2 you had to use your ears and had HOURS of warning as they clunked and clanked over the horizon. You'd see dust trails for miles behind them narrowing to a tiny point indicating exactly where they were, and then confirming that with a black smoke exhaust coming from the engine compartment. I mean, they were 10 ton tanks that were so loud people knew were they were any time they were ever in use, and they could never stand up to air power -- hence why the Germans, the yanks, the US, just about EVERYBODY that flew over battlegrounds that had armored tanks developed planes to KILL said tanks.
But.. I mean.. sure.. make them invisible. Pretend that they can have an effect on others without others having an effect on them.
Fighter planes kept you safe, not stealth. You were a target. Get in, get your job done, and get out. You linger, you die. Or get a friend or two to fly in your area and shoot any heavy, lumbering planes with bombs down before they get to you.
Ya.........tell that to the troops at the battle of the bulge with all the warning they had.....not
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:56:57 AM
radar was lowered to what we have today because of all the people "hiding" from a fight by running NOE all the time. Now we have GVs making it the top tactic to "hide" all the time parked in the trees and bushes.
So we get something to make it easier to find GVs.
They put the trees there to make it harder for GV's to maneuver on the map and it came back to bite them in the (you know what) get rid of some of the trees add the convoys and trains back.........like in AH II. Will some one explain how this radar and gv icons have helped improve the game..........how.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 12:05:22 PM
Hell of a price to pay for eye candy......
It looks great from the air.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:16:16 PM
It looks great from the air.
It does but it came at a price.........and quite a few do not see wonder of it. Right now players can not get the achievements for killing trains and convoys.......why? because we have so much clutter on the ground, that needs to be fixed or take away those achievements from the existing players
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 12:18:39 PM
I think the same people complaining were most likely kids who received participation trophies for sports. :noid
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 12:19:33 PM
It does but it came at a price.........and quite a few do not see wonder of it. Right now players can not get the achievements for killing trains and convoys.......why? because we have so much clutter on the ground, that needs to be fixed or take away those achievements from the existing players
:rofl Among other reasons, I now feel bad for you because that's something that rustles your jimmies.
HTC's said they're reworking the roads/convoys stuff, not removing it. But it's not here right now, so Something Must Be Done(TM)!
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 12:25:10 PM
I think the same people complaining were most likely kids who received participation trophies for sports. :noid
I once got a sportsmanship trophy in little league for changing teams. :aok
Post by: Krusty on December 01, 2017, 12:26:38 PM
They're currently not in the game because numerous changes to objects, terrain engines, and other things broke how they were laid out in existing maps. It takes ungodly amounts of time to go back over a terrain an recreate them ALL from scratch.
Imagine a patchwork quilt. Say you're working on one tiny bead/stitch/seam in one 6 inch square that has to be just right or the quilt is ruined. Now imagine the quilt were a mile wide and a mile long, and any time you had to go to one little seam/stitch/bead you had to not only find where you're working, but keep in mind where it is in relation to the big picture and the total quilt pattern as a whole. Working on AH maps is hard. Don't forget that. It's VERY time consuming.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 12:27:57 PM
I once got a sportsmanship trophy in little league for changing teams. :aok
CHANGING TEAMS?! TRAITOR!!! :rofl
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 12:28:29 PM
I once got a sportsmanship trophy in little league for changing teams. :aok
That kind of thinking is not allowed here. You must stay on your team and hate all who are on the other teams.
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:30:08 PM
Roads, convoys, and railroads all fall under that painstakingly time consuming description I shared with regards to sculpting GV approaches to a base/target. Each road segment must be carefully considered, planned, mapped, checked, double checked, or you get 100mph convoys running across runways 20 feet off the ground.
They're currently not in the game because numerous changes to objects, terrain engines, and other things broke how they were laid out in existing maps. It takes ungodly amounts of time to go back over a terrain an recreate them ALL from scratch.
Imagine a patchwork quilt. Say you're working on one tiny bead/stitch/seam in one 6 inch square that has to be just right or the quilt is ruined. Now imagine the quilt were a mile wide and a mile long, and any time you had to go to one little seam/stitch/bead you had to not only find where you're working, but keep in mind where it is in relation to the big picture and the total quilt pattern as a whole. Working on AH maps is hard. Don't forget that. It's VERY time consuming.
Well they sure got the things to impair the GV's in this game right to the head of the line, didn't they.....
Post by: rvflyer on December 01, 2017, 12:30:31 PM
:rofl Among other reasons, I now feel bad for you because that's something that rustles your jimmies.
HTC's said they're reworking the roads/convoys stuff, not removing it. But it's not here right now, so Something Must Be Done(TM)!
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:33:14 PM
So now the terrain makes achievements unfair too? WOW!!!
I think the same people complaining were most likely kids who received participation trophies for sports. :noid
I think your part of the problem
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 12:33:48 PM
I think your part of the problem
You're
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 12:35:20 PM
Well they sure got the things to impair the GV's in this game right to the head of the line, didn't they.....
If the game overall is improved then it's a great decision to give it such priority.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 12:36:14 PM
You're
It works on 2 levels. Well played, Wilbur. :cheers:
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 12:37:45 PM
The reason why not is because it would be a painstakingly long process to perfect just ONE route from a spawn to one base.... now multiply that by 100 spawn points at 50 other fields, then times 3 countries. The amount of time it takes would mean no map ever gets added to the game. Then if there's any changes to tilesets or objects that might impact the terrain, the time to QA each and every existing map to make sure any impacts were acceptable would take hundreds of man hours and notes just to look at an existing map!
Ideally it would be cool to have something like Karelia where you have water passings that must use bridges to cross -- allowing you to risk getting bogged in the marsh crossings if the bridge is bombed out or if there's a tank guarding the bottleneck (aka the bridge) on the other side. Give good cause for players to take LvTs so they could cross water hazards without needing that bridge.
But that was a long time ago and that map is no longer usable in AH. To re-create something like that would take years of personal sacrifice and most of it would go unappreciated or even unused.
That's basically why-not. Takes too much time and effort on a massive scale to pull that kind of thing off.
Dude, you played on Oceania yet? You want bridges across rivers and eye candy. Takes about 6 months. Takes about a month to ground test and tweak all the spawns for GV combat, if you are even trying to give the ground game some love. Hitech rapidly debugged the one off bridge objects for me so I could incorporate them as an integral part of GV combat on Oceania.
And yes Mable, I individually tweak all the ground from spawn to target for GV combat to balance the eye candy and keep the clutter from killing the ground combat. There are only two of my terrains in rotation with all of that done to them. Because I've been with the new game since two years before it went live in the alpha\beta testing and had a good idea what would happen to the GV game observing other testers in the alpha\beta doing GV combat.
Got Bridges......And notice all the extra open space I hand added in with grass to open up the tree clutter killing the GV game. Your tree problems are with the converted AH2-->AH3 terrains. The AH2 terrain tiles were not as densely packed with realistic trees as the AH3 tiles. So I open them up with grass to help GVers fight each other. Everything else is time consuming eye candy because now that is the standard for games.
White rings GV spawns, purple PT.
(https://s20.postimg.org/kaz3vcwb1/oceania269.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/48l9ot72l/oceania202.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/4yy0bkhl9/oceania226.jpg)
Clouds and eye candy anyone....
(https://s20.postimg.org/nm335ym4t/Oc_Cld05.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/m633rpn65/Oc40_Cld08.jpg)
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 12:37:51 PM
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
If the game overall is improved then it's a great decision to give it such priority.
Could you elaborate on that statement....over all improve it for whom
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:46:17 PM
And yet the Flyers all scream about "In Real Life". :rofl
Look bottom line, the GV Dar does nothing to improve the GV game, but greatly enhances the Air to ground game by locating the GV's. :O
your killing the GV part of this game because lazy people will not get out of their planes and join the fight on the ground.....it's a choice
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 12:51:28 PM
It can be said that the addition of GV's ruined the game for those who joined for the air war, and it allows people to be lazy and avoid learning how to fly. :old:
Post by: horble on December 01, 2017, 12:51:47 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 12:56:46 PM
Could you elaborate on that statement....over all improve it for whom
For the vast majority of the players, they're called pilots.
I know, what a concept - guys play a game called Aces High to fly planes.
your killing the GV part of this game because lazy people will not get out of their planes and join the fight on the ground.....it's a choice
And you're killing this entire combat game by sneaking around on the ground and avoiding combat.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 12:59:10 PM
For the vast majority of the players, they're called pilots.
I know, what a concept - guys play a game called Aces High to fly planes.
And you're killing this entire combat game by sneaking around on the ground and avoiding combat.
The combat is on the ground silly
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 01:00:31 PM
It's not World of Tanks.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
Is it considered combat to drive 2 hours to an undefended inanimate object and shoot at it?
Your signature line states "49th Fighter Group" but you're actively campaigning for a tank-centric flight simulator.
:devil
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:04:16 PM
You do know what the title of this game is, right?
It's not World of Tanks.
then why are they here, the GV's I mean.......... and just to let you know World of tanks have 10k or more players on line at any given time......we cann't even get 300 players in this game.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:05:31 PM
Two quick observations:
Is it considered combat to drive 2 hours to an undefended inanimate object and shoot at it?
Your signature line states "49th Fighter Group" but you're actively campaigning for a tank-centric flight simulator.
:devil
It's my $14.95 and they said I could do what I wish with it
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 01:05:50 PM
then why are they here, the GV's I mean.......... and just to let you know World of tanks have 10k or more players on line at any given time......we cann't even get 300 players in this game.
The GV's are here to be food for attack planes.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:10:30 PM
The GV's are here to be food for attack planes.
Then don't advertise it as the most realistic combat sim
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 01:10:51 PM
So retrospectively tank combat in AH2 was easy mode directly due to the much less dense trees and clutter. You had long sight vistas to long range everyone or perma camp spawns and rack up easy kills. In AH3 you have real world like tree densities which from day one turned tank combat into a nerve wracking and very frustrating endeavor. It appears only a hand full of tank combat players liked it enough to adapt and have fun with the new tank combat.
I don't know what Hitech will have done, or not, about the tree densities on the converted AH2-->AH3 terrains in the tank combat areas. When they were worked up for rotation after the conversion process, no one really had any idea what the real impact on the GV game the tree densities would have. Any change to this game takes time to see the full implications of the change and has always been the rule. So one year on, AH3 tree densities are a bit tight for fun GV combat in the majority of cases. NDisles in the center was tweaked nicely for GV combat and the Mediterranean\Desert tile set is well balanced for tree density to open space for tank combat. That still leaves hundreds of GV spawns on all the other terrains that are in interesting conditions. All this vitriol seems to vote for those conditions not being fun for GV combat.
And I only have two terrains in rotation that have all the spawns tweaked for GV combat. Also I adjusted base distances to favor getting into air combat sooner than later to increase the amount of time air combat players would have for combat versus transit sitting on their thumbs. I treat the air and ground game as equally important to keeping Hitech's doors open.
Post by: Lazerr on December 01, 2017, 01:11:09 PM
Bunch of guys quit a combat game because it's harder or them to avoid combat. That's addition via subtraction in my book.
:aok
Yeah that is confusing me too..
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:15:05 PM
Yeah that is confusing me too..
Kids these day's with that "New Math" ..........LOL
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 01:16:38 PM
Then don't advertise it as the most realistic combat sim
When did I ever claim that?
I have specifically framed my arguments to address gameplay. That GV's were historically airplane food as well only strengthens my position.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 01:18:06 PM
Then don't advertise it as the most realistic combat sim
These guys never existed, and ruined WWII -- cheaters...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/RIAN_archive_225_IL-2_attacking.jpg)
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:24:11 PM
These guys never existed, and ruined WWII -- cheaters...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/RIAN_archive_225_IL-2_attacking.jpg)
Show me the radar screen on the dash
Post by: Skuzzy on December 01, 2017, 01:25:35 PM
then why are they here, the GV's I mean.......... and just to let you know World of tanks have 10k or more players on line at any given time......we cann't even get 300 players in this game.
They can get over 10,000 players in one arena, on one map? Okay, I am impressed.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:29:57 PM
They can get over 10,000 players in one arena, on one map? Okay, I am impressed.
Laugh.............but they have 10,000 logged in and what would happen if they expanded the arena skuzzy.......any idea?
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 01:30:28 PM
The only reason why the battle of the bulge continued as long as it did was poor weather that kept Allied attack planes from bombing the armored columns, allowing them to move unimpeded. They would have been fodder for the air corps if they were able to fly.
How about we get rid of dar, but add in random instances of your tracks coming off, or falling into a mud-bog, getting completely blocked off by dense foliage making advance impossible, and retreat a slow and arduous task? I mean, if we want to go for realism and keep your uberdense trees, this to me seems the most fair and realistic.
Post by: 8thJinx on December 01, 2017, 01:30:32 PM
..... and just to let you know World of tanks have 10k or more players on line at any given time...
Spread out in small, timed arenas that you have to wait for.
Post by: Lazerr on December 01, 2017, 01:33:38 PM
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 01:34:24 PM
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 01:44:26 PM
You do realize tanks were designed for open terrain. One of the reasons why Arden worked the first time, and nearly worked the second time is the terrain was considered impassible by armor. Both times was a huge gamble by the Axis going through this area, both getting stuck in mud/muck as well as getting bogged down by the trees themselves and slowing their columns making them easy fodder for air power.
The only reason why the battle of the bulge continued as long as it did was poor weather that kept Allied attack planes from bombing the armored columns, allowing them to move unimpeded. They would have been fodder for the air corps if they were able to fly.
How about we get rid of dar, but add in random instances of your tracks coming off, or falling into a mud-bog, getting completely blocked off by dense foliage making advance impossible, and retreat a slow and arduous task? I mean, if we want to go for realism and keep your uberdense trees, this to me seems the most fair and realistic.
The comment about not being able to sneek into position.....well they sure did. No doubt the allied air would have stopped the attack but, history shows it was an accomplishment getting the German force in place with out being detected before the operation was brilliant........ The planners of the operations didn't take into consideration the problems they would face once through the allied lines, there were too many must take for the operation to be successful. I think they should have taken a better look at Operation Market Garden and what Monte tried to accomplish in the time frame he had to capture all those bridges...and the support from the rear that bogged down....We were very lucky to have Hitler calling the shots, because if his Generals were in charge the war would have taken longer.....and with out the same results. It was also noted that the allies stopped any attempt to target Hitler, as he was screwing things up far more than what his general staff was.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
Wiley.
Post by: Skuzzy on December 01, 2017, 02:03:21 PM
Laugh.............but they have 10,000 logged in and what would happen if they expanded the arena skuzzy.......any idea?
Wait a minute. You mean they cannot host 10,000 players in one arena, on one map? That was your implication in your comparison. If you cannot fight all 10,000, at one time, then what's the point? They could have a billion logged in then and it does not change anything.
I am not in charge of their development. You would have to ask them why they cannot or have not expanded their arenas.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 02:13:46 PM
Dundee, have you considered custom arenas? It sounds like they might give you the gameplay you desire. You could all spawn in on one side and not have to worry about any enemies to ruin your plans.
Wiley.
I have but don't want to put up with the negative vibes..........the maps are great...I like them when they were in AH II. It's the changes done to those maps (Trees and hills that you can no longer climb, the icons, the radar target for GV) that is the biggest problem I see...... Custom arena..........no neither has the Air community but the still get the changes that changes the game in their favor. I mentioned before.........Keep it up and tank town will look like a ghost town....the GV'ers are pissed and with good reason. I don't care to dog fight, I'm not good at it and it's not the reason I have stayed. There are guys who just come here to fly airplane and get kills .....same guys never supported the Dueling Arena to any extent...and that was a custom arena...The GV community have commented many times what has been done to the maps to make it more difficult to do operations...yet the people icharge or powers to me have done nothing to make the flyboy's game any harder. they cut back on the clouds, the night time because they complained......we complain about things and all it does is fall on deaf ears.... and we're kind of done with it. You can't just listen to one part of the game...we are all in the same game. The 49ers have lost over 60% of our players.....because of the on going anti GV changes in the game. I wish Dale would sell the rights to AH II to some one and we'd all go there. I think I have expressed IMO whats wrong...I'm not going to bang my head against the wall any more. but I will leave you with this quote.......... "Decent game, mildly toxic community, outrageous subscription price for a game that feels like 1998 in a 2007 coat of paint. If they change the moetization model I could reccomend this."
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 02:16:32 PM
Wait a minute. You mean they cannot host 10,000 players in one arena, on one map? That was your implication in your comparison. If you cannot fight all 10,000, at one time, then what's the point? They could have a billion logged in then and it does not change anything.
I am not in charge of their development. You would have to ask them why they cannot or have not expanded their arenas.
Skuzzy I'm at the point I don't care......it's your product when it becomes something I'm not interested in then I won't be here to raise your blood pressure .
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 02:21:35 PM
I have but don't want to put up with the negative vibes..........the maps are great...I like them when they were in AH II. It's the changes done to those maps (Trees and hills that you can no longer climb, the icons, the radar target for GV) that is the biggest problem I see...... Custom arena..........no neither has the Air community but the still get the changes that changes the game in their favor. I mentioned before.........Keep it up and tank town will look like a ghost town....the GV'ers are pissed and with good reason. I don't care to dog fight, I'm not good at it and it's not the reason I have stayed. There are guys who just come here to fly airplane and get kills .....same guys never supported the Dueling Arena to any extent...and that was a custom arena...The GV community have commented many times what has been done to the maps to make it more difficult to do operations...yet the people icharge or powers to me have done nothing to make the flyboy's game any harder. they cut back on the clouds, the night time because they complained......we complain about things and all it does is fall on deaf ears.... and we're kind of done with it. You can't just listen to one part of the game...we are all in the same game. The 49ers have lost over 60% of our players.....because of the on going anti GV changes in the game. I wish Dale would sell the rights to AH II to some one and we'd all go there. I think I have expressed IMO whats wrong...I'm not going to bang my head against the wall any more. but I will leave you with this quote.......... "Decent game, mildly toxic community, outrageous subscription price for a game that feels like 1998 in a 2007 coat of paint. If they change the moetization model I could reccomend this."
Let me ask you this, what difference does it make to the air war if a GV is hiding or simply not there? NONE.
Skuzzy I'm at the point I don't care......it's your product when it becomes something I'm not interested in then I won't be here to raise your blood pressure .
You threaten to quit playing, I say you never played in the first place.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 02:27:12 PM
Let me ask you this, what difference does it make to the air war if a GV is hiding or simply not there? NONE.then explain why the radar for GV's show up in the cockpit of your plane........explain that
You threaten to quit playing, I say you never played in the first place.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 02:29:25 PM
then explain why the radar for GV's show up in the cockpit of your plane........explain that
Why do we have any kind of enemy display in our plane? Or in tower for that matter?
To allow people to find a fight. I suppose technically it can also be used to avoid one if you're so inclined.
Wiley.
Post by: Skuzzy on December 01, 2017, 02:42:23 PM
Skuzzy I'm at the point I don't care......it's your product when it becomes something I'm not interested in then I won't be here to raise your blood pressure .
Oh, you misunderstand. My blood pressure is fine.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 02:42:35 PM
then explain why the radar for GV's show up in the cockpit of your plane........explain that
You misunderstand.
You are threatening to quit if the GV dar is not removed. Therefore you would stay, but only if you can hide.
What I'm saying is, it does not matter if you're hiding or just gone. Either way, you not participating in the fight.
The GV dar is a tool to bring back balance to the total combat system that was lost when the icons changed.
You don't like being hunted now? I say "Good." At least you're risking something now when you try to sneak a base or pork a strat.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
You misunderstand.
You are threatening to quit if the GV dar is not removed. Therefore you would stay, but only if you can hide.
What I'm saying is, it does not matter if you're hiding or just gone. Either way, you not participating in the fight.
The GV dar is a tool to bring back balance to the total combat system that was lost when the icons changed.
You don't like being hunted now? I say "Good." At least you're risking something now when you try to sneak a base or pork a strat.
If you say so Skuzzy
Post by: Skuzzy on December 01, 2017, 02:54:22 PM
If you say so Skuzzy
Uh, thing is....I did not say what you quoted.
Post by: Chilli on December 01, 2017, 03:05:22 PM
The reason why not is because it would be a painstakingly long process to perfect just ONE route from a spawn to one base.... now multiply that by 100 spawn points at 50 other fields, then times 3 countries. The amount of time it takes would mean no map ever gets added to the game. Then if there's any changes to tilesets or objects that might impact the terrain, the time to QA each and every existing map to make sure any impacts were acceptable would take hundreds of man hours and notes just to look at an existing map!
Ideally it would be cool to have something like Karelia where you have water passings that must use bridges to cross -- allowing you to risk getting bogged in the marsh crossings if the bridge is bombed out or if there's a tank guarding the bottleneck (aka the bridge) on the other side. Give good cause for players to take LvTs so they could cross water hazards without needing that bridge.
But that was a long time ago and that map is no longer usable in AH. To re-create something like that would take years of personal sacrifice and most of it would go unappreciated or even unused.
That's basically why-not. Takes too much time and effort on a massive scale to pull that kind of thing off.
If forests were a part of the terrain, for example: it looks like a forest from the air and the ground but in reality it is a tile option to elevate the terrain at 90 degree angle (basically a wall). From above the forest is pretty much painted (or skinned) to show forest features.
In this way the pathways are not exactly drawn, but they are forced routes because of the inability to enter the densely forested areas.
This could possibly be made simple with the use of a brush from the mapmaker's perspective. Pretty much how terrains were skinned the last time I gave it a go.
In addition, it might (I don't know) lessen the file size by reducing clutter in vast uncontested areas.
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
Our arena is either 20x20 or 10x10 25milex25mile sectors. Their arenas can only support 32 players at a time with WT and WoT having a time limit. While ours are unlimited and thousands of square miles. Every single tree, bush and blade of grass in our game is an "OBJECT" just like in their arenas. A compromise has to happen so we can have 1000 people at the same time in our arena for an unlimited amount of time and not force everyone to buy a mini mainframe to process it all. Even if our arena was only 25x25, 1000 players at the same time would kill FPS without the other games goodies. So we don't have persistent knock over trees, or persistent drive through knock down walls or rain drops and rain squalls and all those other bells and whistles the competition has to severely limit player numbers and arena square miles because of.
No one ever bothers to comprehend the shear volume of objects our single arena hosts versus any single arena of the competition. Anyone ever notice just how toxic air combat and furballing ends up on the center islands of NDisles and my Oceania. There have been nights it just devolves into nastiness for the sake of nasty because everything is crammed so close. I designed the furball island on Oceania to be the size of our competitor's single arena to give you guys a taste of what would happen if Hitech reduced the size of our arena just to keep up with the times. Eventually everyone gets tired of it and has the other 199 sector squares to play Aces High.
With a 32 player limit, 1milex1mile arena and 10,000 players logged in at the same time. That's 200-300 concurrent arenas being hosted on how many servers across the globe? Aces High has one server and hosts up to 1000 players an arena and can run many more arenas than currently showing without taxing the single server. Why, because of Hitech, his programing ability, and a compromise to limit the functionality of "OBJECTS" to have arenas of 20x20\10x10 and up to 1000 players 24x7 in any arena.
It's funny, I watched as many films of tank combat from WT and WoT as I could find to look at their terrain ideas while building my terrains. Most of it was like watching the Keystone Cops on rider mowers with shot guns playing bumper cars. Tank combat no, mario bros with tanks, yes. Everyone is forced to start out together in a tiny space that no one can hide in for very long. And you start out very close to each other due to the arena size. And yes there are neat objects to stomp on and squish during your limited battle timer period, or you can push an enemy tank off cliffs to kill it. And no irritating fly boys with 1000lb bombs to emasculate you. They have tank dar and other super mario bros kinds of freind\enemy HUD info that makes Hitech look like a piker with his measly GVDAR. Yes even they have much less dense trees than we do so everyone can race around and play super mario bros. The Aces High 3 tank game is seriously brutal in comparison with them and even AH2. But, we do have mario bros tank power ups\health boxes......
(https://s20.postimg.org/60ghjndct/oceania273.jpg)
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 01, 2017, 03:27:09 PM
The GV dar is a tool to bring back balance to the total combat system that was lost when the icons changed.RVflyr still had the best solution for both aircraft and vehicle jockeys. When base radar goes down, both aircraft and gv radar goes dark like aircraft radar does now.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 01, 2017, 04:03:13 PM
This game is titled "Aces High" in its description it states "High fidelity flight simulation is the heart of Aces High but it doesn't end there. A war rages on the ground and at sea. Engage enemy armor in tank combat. Protect your fleet as a gunner or make a torpedo run in a PT boat. Lead an assault in an amphibious vehicle. With over 100 warbirds, vehicles, and boats available, you have access to a vast virtual arsenal.
Take part in special events such as historical scenarios where famous battles are recreated and re-imagined or try your hand at air racing at tree top level against skilled competitors.
In the air, on land, and at sea, the battle rages 24 hours a day with participants from around the world. Take our free two week trial and find out why Aces High is the online game for you."
Now what part are you wanting to eliminate??? Personally I don't see it as a WW2 Air Combat simulator, I see at a WW2 Combat simulator. Based on the description above THAT IS WHAT IT IS, it includes aircraft and that may be the main focus, but that is not all. If your force out the GV community, you will end up with War Thunder on steroids, nothing more. That would be a terrible thing to happen to this game, the diversity of game play is one of the things that makes this game great and better than anything else out there.
All those talking about the "spawn campers" and how unskilled it is, well first off you don't know what your talking about, second its really no different than you picking and BnZ fighting, oh yeah I forgot the vulching. Yes I know none of you all participate in such unskilled and un-sportsmanship activities. :rofl
I'm sure Hitech will make the right decision for HIS game, I just think its a shame that so many are trying set this game up to the way THEY want to play, and not the way everyone wants to play.
Well back to the game now, see if I can camp a spawn or bomb a strat or maybe get a kill on one you whiners. :devil
:salute
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 04:10:06 PM
Now what part are you wanting to eliminate???
In a nutshell, hiding. Taking something out from outside base flash distance is crap. Shelling a base to death from a CV with no indication it's happening to the opposing players is crap. Being invisible in enemy territory is crap.
Simply put, if you're in an area, there should be some kind of indication to the opposing players you're there.
For some people, apparently if they can't avoid all enemy players at will, they're leaving.
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:12:08 PM
RVflyr still had the best solution for both aircraft and vehicle jockeys. When base radar goes down, both aircraft and gv radar goes dark like aircraft radar does now.
I think that would be a great addition........but we'll never see it....
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 01, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:14:13 PM
In a nutshell, hiding. Taking something out from outside base flash distance is crap. Shelling a base to death from a CV with no indication it's happening to the opposing players is crap. Being invisible in enemy territory is crap.
Simply put, if you're in an area, there should be some kind of indication to the opposing players you're there.
For some people, apparently if they can't avoid all enemy players at will, they're leaving.
Wiley.
Does that mean the radar in my plane will detect enemy CV and BB groups.......Brilliant
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 04:15:39 PM
I think dar is taking it too far personally, but at the same time I also think tank columns driving 50 miles behind enemy lines into a major city and pretending they wouldn't be noticed is just as lame.
Both of these I think hurts the game overall. We want some sort of immersion and realism, or we'd all be in WoWP or War Thunder... but we also want action, or we'd be playing IL2 offline. What the main point is, there is a very large sub-group of players in this game that don't want anything done to hinder their avoidance operations.
This isn't new...
Dar being dropped to 65 feet was decried by these same people as ruining the game. You can still fly NOE, but now you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing, what your height is, and insure you're staying below it. That also ONLY matters when you're inside a dar ring with the dar up. The actual height of Darbar didn't change, but that didn't make people whine more.
New cities in AH2 were decried by these same people as ruining the game. You could no longer take down an entire city with 2 110's and sneak capture bases well behind enemy lines without any support.
Reducing the amount of city was both decried and praised by these people. At first, because 100% was too difficult to get down and made taking bases too hard, and then because it was too easy to lancstuka the town and white flag it in two passes.
The fighter jocks main complaint is, that all of these changes have been meant to increase combat opportunities, and there's still a huge group of people that thinks the point of a MMO combat sim is sneak around other players and avoid combat because you might end up fake dead.
As far as I can tell, there's a group of people that think they should have a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked, and be able to ingress/egress at will with no chance of being spotted or shot, unless it's by another GV that you most likely have the spawn or hangar camped preventing any sort of real chance of combat anyways.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 04:17:16 PM
Does that mean the radar in my plane will detect enemy CV and BB groups.......Brilliant
Nope. But IMO when a facility's getting shelled by anything, there should be an indicator. Unfortunately, I don't set policy.
Wiley.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 01, 2017, 04:20:49 PM
In a nutshell, hiding. Taking something out from outside base flash distance is crap. Shelling a base to death from a CV with no indication it's happening to the opposing players is crap. Being invisible in enemy territory is crap.
Simply put, if you're in an area, there should be some kind of indication to the opposing players you're there.
For some people, apparently if they can't avoid all enemy players at will, they're leaving.
Wiley.
CV's shelling a base without any remote indication, that has been the case since AH2 and has nothing to do with GV's, the minute an LVT is launched the base will flash, as does an aircraft.
As to GV's in the Base area, the Town or Base will flash when they are within a certain distance, in plenty of time for a defensive response. If no one responds, well there you have it.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:21:14 PM
there is an easy way around this maybe, create a GV only arena, or one with limited aircraft. :x
I think an even better solution would be give us a game that is done.....this game plays like it's still in Beta with all the changes that are happening.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 04:23:42 PM
I think an even better solution would be give us a game that is done.....this game plays like it's still in Beta with all the changes that are happening.
You realize this game has been constantly patched and updated since its original launch right?
You also realize that even offline games will often have patches to fix issues that come up after playing that aren't always spotted in testing.
I'm starting to think you're just trolling, or really don't understand online gaming at all... :bhead
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:24:03 PM
CV's shelling a base without any remote indication, that has been the case since AH2 and has nothing to do with GV's, the minute an LVT is launched the base will flash, as does an aircraft.
As to GV's in the Base area, the Town or Base will flash when they are within a certain distance, in plenty of time for a defensive response. If no one responds, well there you have it.
They say that it's wrong because we sneaked it.....but all the bells and whistles were going off, go figure.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 04:29:44 PM
CV's shelling a base without any remote indication, that has been the case since AH2 and has nothing to do with GV's, the minute an LVT is launched the base will flash, as does an aircraft.
You are correct, doesn't mean it's a poor system. You can effectively level a base and if nobody happens to randomly check it, it's done without any resistance.
Quote
As to GV's in the Base area, the Town or Base will flash when they are within a certain distance, in plenty of time for a defensive response. If no one responds, well there you have it.
Sure. With no difference in indication between a single tank hiding under a tree flashing it somewhere within 25 square miles of the field and a dozen vehicles rushing the field. What people do quite often is flash a base for a while until people get sick of looking for the singleton GV flashing it, then after the defense leaves due to boredom they roll in the actual attack. Wee.
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 04:29:46 PM
You realize this game has been constantly patched and updated since its original launch right?
You also realize that even offline games will often have patches to fix issues that come up after playing that aren't always spotted in testing.
I'm starting to think you're just trolling, or really don't understand online gaming at all... :bhead
well by the response of many on here I think many of us don't understand what direction this game is going....you mean they forgot to put this radar in at the beginning? is that what you are saying?
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 01, 2017, 04:30:22 PM
or
For GVs, why have GV dar at all? Have enemy GVs display an icon. Would solve camping for sure.
or
Just leave it like it has been and let the players have at it.
on edit: first 2 on a try for a month like the troopless M3's would be interesting. oh the screams :rofl
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 04:31:21 PM
Oh, and you wouldn't have any ground vehicles, because they were not a part of the original concept of the game.
I'm thinking you need a nap. :ahand
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 04:35:19 PM
Just leave it like it has been and let the players have at it.
Like it has been when GVs threw a 6k icon? Sounds reasonable to me.
Actually what I think would be the most organic solution would be 1 or 2km of tank tracks trailed behind every GV. Yes, you are invisible under that tree, but the treadmarks leading up to it aren't.
Wiley.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 01, 2017, 04:38:49 PM
Like it has been when GVs threw a 6k icon? Sounds reasonable to me.Why not ? As long as icon visibility is hampered by solid objects (bldgs./foliage) for GVs and clouds for aircraft. I believe I lose as many GVs average to aircraft in AH3 as I did in AH1 and 2.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 01, 2017, 04:41:09 PM
I don't believe the air guys are saying get rid of GV's. The GV guys are saying they should be able to operate with impunity and not have the same crutches provided to flight to make things easier such as Icons for Friendly and Enemy aircraft for example, or sector counters to let other players know where action is at.
I think dar is taking it too far personally, but at the same time I also think tank columns driving 50 miles behind enemy lines into a major city and pretending they wouldn't be noticed is just as lame.
Both of these I think hurts the game overall. We want some sort of immersion and realism, or we'd all be in WoWP or War Thunder... but we also want action, or we'd be playing IL2 offline. What the main point is, there is a very large sub-group of players in this game that don't want anything done to hinder their avoidance operations.
This isn't new...
Dar being dropped to 65 feet was decried by these same people as ruining the game. You can still fly NOE, but now you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing, what your height is, and insure you're staying below it. That also ONLY matters when you're inside a dar ring with the dar up. The actual height of Darbar didn't change, but that didn't make people whine more.
New cities in AH2 were decried by these same people as ruining the game. You could no longer take down an entire city with 2 110's and sneak capture bases well behind enemy lines without any support.
Reducing the amount of city was both decried and praised by these people. At first, because 100% was too difficult to get down and made taking bases too hard, and then because it was too easy to lancstuka the town and white flag it in two passes.
The fighter jocks main complaint is, that all of these changes have been meant to increase combat opportunities, and there's still a huge group of people that thinks the point of a MMO combat sim is sneak around other players and avoid combat because you might end up fake dead.
As far as I can tell, there's a group of people that think they should have a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked, and be able to ingress/egress at will with no chance of being spotted or shot, unless it's by another GV that you most likely have the spawn or hangar camped preventing any sort of real chance of combat anyways.
Wilbur based on your comments I assume you are one that plays the game for Fights, and that's fine. I don't play for fights, I play to win the war, roll the map, what ever term you wish to use. Now I will have to fight to win the war, but I don't takeoff looking for a red guy to fight. I take off to defend a base or capture a base, the same is true for Bombing missions, or GV attacks, spawn camping, sneaking a base capture. Its all about winning the war. The way the game is currently structured that is how it is intended to be played, to win the war.
You are grossly over simplifying GV tactics. There has always been a means of finding GV's in trees (at least since I joined in 2012), for both aircraft and GV's. I fly the A20 on base defense a lot, out of 100 GV searches we will find at least 80% of them. If I'm in a GV searching for GV's, I'll find 90% to 95% of them. I don't need the GV dar in the air or on the ground.
It sounds like what you want is the MA to be nothing but a Furball arena. If that happens I'm out cause in a fighter all I do good is die. :D The diversity of play in this game is what makes it great, don't help screw it up.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 04:44:53 PM
Like it has been when GVs threw a 6k icon? Sounds reasonable to me.
Actually what I think would be the most organic solution would be 1 or 2km of tank tracks trailed behind every GV. Yes, you are invisible under that tree, but the treadmarks leading up to it aren't.
Wiley.
Problem would be drawing the trails from the individual GV's would be a huge hit on the system. That's what the simple icons are supposed to represent: the ability to accurately spot and track the enemy at realistic ranges beyond the capabilities of the game.
Like you said, restoring the 6K icon would solve many of the problems.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 01, 2017, 04:45:34 PM
If I'm in a GV searching for GV's, I'll find 90% to 95% of them. I don't need the GV dar in the air or on the ground.That statement is true any time I drive near a base you're patrolling. :aok
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 01, 2017, 04:48:20 PM
That statement is true any time I drive near a base you're patrolling. :aok
You sir are always a challenge, and when I'm successful, which is not near all the time, I have a real sense of accomplishment. :aok
:salute
Post by: 8thJinx on December 01, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
Problem would be drawing the trails from the individual GV's would be a huge hit on the system. That's what the simple icons are supposed to represent: the ability to accurately spot and track the enemy at realistic ranges beyond the capabilities of the game.
Like you said, restoring the 6K icon would solve many of the problems.
Perfect statement, right there. Not sure about the 6k icon thing. Were icons once visible 6k out?
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 04:53:41 PM
Perfect statement, right there. Not sure about the 6k icon thing. Were icons once visible 6k out?Up until the Storch was put in the game in 2012 they were.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 04:55:39 PM
Problem would be drawing the trails from the individual GV's would be a huge hit on the system. That's what the simple icons are supposed to represent: the ability to accurately spot and track the enemy at realistic ranges beyond the capabilities of the game.
Like you said, restoring the 6K icon would solve many of the problems.
I don't know a lot of detail about graphic engines, but I would be curious how much processing power it would actually take. In simplistic terms, I don't know that it would be that much worse than the amount of craters an airfield can be covered in if a task group gets on it with guns for a while, or when a B29 unloads a full bay of the tiny bombs. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be that horrific on your system. Like I said, the only tricky thing I can see would be making it so you couldn't "roll up" your 1000 yards of tracks under you by rocking back and forth.
I think the best things to add would be the visual things that were actually indicators IRL. Dust in motion, smoke on firing, and tracks. But I could be wrong and it might be too much of a performance hit.
But dear God the screams of the GVers would be biblical.
Perfect statement, right there. Not sure about the 6k icon thing. Were icons once visible 6k out?
Might've been 3. I remember when they were long you could see an icon, set up for it, and bomb him in one pass. TBH I felt it was unfair for the GVer. Problem is, with it as it is now, I feel it's too far the other way.
Wiley.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 04:57:58 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 05:00:52 PM
I don't know a lot of detail about graphic engines, but I would be curious how much processing power it would actually take. In simplistic terms, I don't know that it would be that much worse than the amount of craters an airfield can be covered in if a task group gets on it with guns for a while, or when a B29 unloads a full bay of the tiny bombs. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be that horrific on your system. Like I said, the only tricky thing I can see would be making it so you couldn't "roll up" your 1000 yards of tracks under you by rocking back and forth.
I think the best things to add would be the visual things that were actually indicators IRL. Dust in motion, smoke on firing, and tracks. But I could be wrong and it might be too much of a performance hit.
But dear God the screams of the GVers would be biblical.
Might've been 3. I remember when they were long you could see an icon, set up for it, and bomb him in one pass. TBH I felt it was unfair for the GVer. Problem is, with it as it is now, I feel it's too far the other way.
Wiley.
But a bomb crater is a single object. They all are the same. With vehicle tracks, you would need to somehow draw a unique object for every vehicle.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 05:01:41 PM
I will help with base takes or defense and I hunt GV's all the time, and have had no issues doing so in AH3 with the old icon no radar. I just find it funny that there's a group of people willing to leave the game because the mechanics have changed to try and assist in fights as opposed to helping avoid them.
I agree, GVs are pretty reasonable to see without the dar if they're pressing an attack. If they're just getting into an area to sit and flash it though, it can be nigh unto impossible to find him.
Wiley.
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 05:04:17 PM
Waystin and I in HurriD and IL2 find 98% of all GVs we up to defend a field from. The 2% we cannot find are players who have bothered to learn what tree types cloak them best on the different terrain tile sets. It tends to be the same 2% of very talented players, GVDAR does not help with locating them.
So offline up into the different terrains and take screen shots of how you hide in the best kind of trees to turn your tank invisible with your engine off. Then post those and an explanation here in the forums on how to be invisible and the trees that help you. But, then it would give away some of the secrets to back shooting other tanks with impunity.
Post by: Wiley on December 01, 2017, 05:07:44 PM
But a bomb crater is a single object. They all are the same. With vehicle tracks, you would need to somehow draw a unique object for every vehicle.
LOL I love spitballing this kind of stuff.
To a certain degree, I see what you're saying. It would be a bit more complex than a crater in that it would need a location and an orientation as well.
But other than that, all it would need to be is a pair of lines. In simple terms, every time you moved a tank length, you'd drop a track object. But we have ship wakes, I don't know that it would need to be be that much more complex than them, just longer?
Obviously it would have to disappear when you die.
Wiley.
Post by: DurrD on December 01, 2017, 05:08:46 PM
Here is my proposal for what I would like to see instead:
- Yes to sector dar for vehicles that have their engines running (distinguishable from sector bar for aircraft). This simulates that the invisible people that theoretically inhabit our maps are reporting the sounds of engines.
- All vehicles with engines off should be effectively invisible to dar of all kinds (still can be seen relatively easily if somebody ups a Storch). This allows some degree of sneakiness and ambushes for gv-ers that are so inclined.
- If within a certain range of an airfield/vbase/port, say within the range that acks would normally shoot at you, then I'm ok with some kind of more specific mark on the map (even if the acks are down). This could simulate the idea that if an enemy tank is on your base that you have people on the base reporting it's location to you.
Post by: wil3ur on December 01, 2017, 05:14:05 PM
Planes have to deal with autoack when going against any of these objects... shouldn't GV's deal with the same thing?
As is, unless you're in a very light vehicle, the most autoack will do to you is possibly track you, maybe knock out your turret MG, or knock your rockets off.
Post by: bustr on December 01, 2017, 06:05:35 PM
They put the trees there to make it harder for GV's to maneuver on the map and it came back to bite them in the (you know what) get rid of some of the trees add the convoys and trains back.........like in AH II. Will some one explain how this radar and gv icons have helped improve the game..........how.
Why don't you build a terrain, you have an incredible amount of control over the trees like I have done on my first two terrains for GVers at every spawn on each terrain. That's hundreds of micro GV combat terrains I tweaked for GVers specifically. Mostly the terrain and all features on it is up to the terrain builder, most of them who built the original AH2 terrains are gone. The AH2 tree densities were sparse compared to the AH3 densities and when the conversion process of the AH2 terrains ran through the terrain editor, it updated to the best of Hitech's programing a 1:1 for all the tiles. So where GV spawns once had wide open vistas that you could fly through at grass level, and spawn camp to death. AH3 had eye candy realistic trees that no one touch up with a grass tile to keep the original terrain builders intentions for GV combat because no one knew how the trees would end up affecting the GVers.
No one had any clue what the now gone early terrain builders had intended at each GV spawn and it wasn't worth looking at the same terrain in an old copy of AH2 at every single spawn to try and Sherlock out some long gone player's rational. Many really didn't have one more than wanting a GV spawn near some place to have a tank fight. And it's taken me two MA terrains and several hundred GV spawns to understand how the new terrain tiles impact GV's and how to fix it for them. It's a few minutes to even an hour per spawn to fix them. So how many terrains are in rotation from AH2 and how many GV spawns on each terrain?? Do you know how to do any of this??
Nothing Is Broken..........stop attacking Hitech without knowing a lot more about all of this then you do. Online games release patches all the time to keep their product working because there is no way to account for 100% of all problems when it comes to computers. And as the technology and OS the players use changes, patches are needed constantly to account for that. Every company that sells software applications or operating systems is constantly releasing patches. This game is just another application like any other computer application. Good software companies work all the time to keep their software patched as part an parcel of the profession or they close their doors.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 01, 2017, 06:24:53 PM
They put the trees there to make it harder for GV's to maneuver on the map and it came back to bite them in the (you know what) get rid of some of the trees add the convoys and trains back.........like in AH II. Will some one explain how this radar and gv icons have helped improve the game..........how.
It makes it easier for the "I want it now/instant action" type gamers we have coming in to find the action they are looking for in the game.
Post by: molybdenum on December 01, 2017, 07:21:02 PM
I will help with base takes or defense and I hunt GV's all the time, and have had no issues doing so in AH3 with the old icon no radar. I just find it funny that there's a group of people willing to leave the game because the mechanics have changed to try and assist in fights as opposed to helping avoid them.
The point is that GVs are pretty much at the mercy of bomb****s. The GV dar doesn't assist in starting a fight: it facilitates the death of the GV that caused it, probably WITHOUT a fight. GVs need a stealth advantage because they are so killable.
Base and town flashes and red end sortie/green end sortie made for a level playing field. I don't know why "improvements" were thought to be needed, but they weren't.
Post by: buddyshamrock on December 01, 2017, 09:47:04 PM
Post by: Dundee on December 01, 2017, 11:32:41 PM
Problem would be drawing the trails from the individual GV's would be a huge hit on the system. That's what the simple icons are supposed to represent: the ability to accurately spot and track the enemy at realistic ranges beyond the capabilities of the game.
Like you said, restoring the 6K icon would solve many of the problems.
Don't forget to add the contrails for the planes..........it's only fair
Post by: Devil 505 on December 01, 2017, 11:46:25 PM
Post by: zack1234 on December 02, 2017, 02:41:10 AM
Post by: HawkerMKII on December 02, 2017, 07:10:23 AM
Post by: thrila on December 02, 2017, 07:11:53 AM
Trying to find a fight during the day in UK time zone can be such a challenge that I rarely login before late afternoon or early evening because it isn't fun chasing ghosts. Perhaps a compromise might be that it is only visible to a player in the tower.
Post by: thndregg on December 02, 2017, 08:46:24 AM
Perhaps a compromise might be that it is only visible to a player in the tower.
Yep. I could live with that, along with using F5 from the tower, zoom out, and F8 to pan around the base area before launching my ride to hunt for the enemy.
Post by: kavo on December 02, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 03:39:38 PM
Post by: bustr on December 02, 2017, 03:50:16 PM
So if you want to mount up and ride out on your breed of charger to do battle with the evil enemy in the MA, allied or axis from long days past, then that is your fantasy in the MA. Most of those guys are just spending a few hours going piu, piu, piu with their friends mounted up on the only rides available from the stable. There are over 120 in the Aces High stable and just happen to look like rides from WW2.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 02, 2017, 04:13:05 PM
Realism- something that is rapidly disappearing. the lates threat to it is Vehicle Radar , giving areas for the enemy to search. Now I may be missing something, and forgive my limited knowledge of the history of the second world war (which is a period we are supposed to be in in aces high) but Ground GV radar was not in existence. it also spoils the game for those who use vehicles tactically. It was a hard enough job before this radar nonsense. Please guys, can we get back to some sort of realism where you use your ears to hear gvs and explosions, like they did in the war. If not.... can I have a lazer cannon and a drone to help keep it real. :furious
As this is a GAME that really doesnt have anything to do with "realism" I think your a bit off point. The radar for the GVs is like observers on the ground reporting incoming ground offensives. The trick here is to make it easier to to "find a fight" something HTC is trying to do to help keep players IN the game. The rick for the old timers crying about the changes is to figure out how to work around this change to complete the missions you are trying to run.
Maybe a few guys run wirbles to cover the heavies into the attack. No more spawn camping, work as a team to accomplish what your trying to do...... unless your trying to do nothing but avoid fights and spawn camp guys who can shoot back.
Post by: Dundee on December 02, 2017, 04:36:12 PM
As this is a GAME that really doesnt have anything to do with "realism" I think your a bit off point. The radar for the GVs is like observers on the ground reporting incoming ground offensives. The trick here is to make it easier to to "find a fight" something HTC is trying to do to help keep players IN the game. The rick for the old timers crying about the changes is to figure out how to work around this change to complete the missions you are trying to run.
Maybe a few guys run wirbles to cover the heavies into the attack. No more spawn camping, work as a team to accomplish what your trying to do...... unless your trying to do nothing but avoid fights and spawn camp guys who can shoot back.
Then why do we hear that a particular plane shouldn't be capable of doing that because........... there is a certain amount of realism that the Fighter Pilots in the game expect, and the GV folks would like the same fair shake
Post by: VuduVee on December 02, 2017, 04:39:12 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 02, 2017, 04:56:46 PM
The system has been imbalanced since before you even started playing.
Suck it up.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 05:12:29 PM
Yep. I could live with that, along with using F5 from the tower, zoom out, and F8 to pan around the base area before launching my ride to hunt for the enemy.
This all day long, there should be an observation area on all fields, towns, strats etc... if someone is manning this position, in theory the GVdar should pop and if the position is not manned then the GVdar should never pop.
Also, you would lose a person in the direct fight from manning this position but what you lose in the field you gain in tactical presence.
And of course this should be a destructible building and just add one more tactical building for attackers to take down.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: The Fugitive on December 02, 2017, 05:34:04 PM
Then why do we hear that a particular plane shouldn't be capable of doing that because........... there is a certain amount of realism that the Fighter Pilots in the game expect, and the GV folks would like the same fair shake
....and Hitech is doing that. With adjustments he can make the planes perform as close to you can get to real life in a game.
So your saying that in real life that all those panzers that ran through Poland not a single one was seen until they all started shooting?
All the GV dar is doing is adding in the spotting capabilities of people in the areas, spotters, and yes even spies. Tactics are much more important now. Sneaking up in a 40 ton tank wasn't very realistic in the first place.
Post by: Meatwad on December 02, 2017, 05:53:32 PM
Post by: 1MADDOG1 on December 02, 2017, 06:07:20 PM
wow, this is something else. its just my opinion but HTC is always trying to satisfy the (minority) player base that constantly yap on the forums and it has ruined the game. go back to 2007 AH gameplay, just reset the whole damn thing and get back to zone strats and all that went with it. it was so much fun. but now a days the forum big mouth FPH's have too much influence on the rest of the players and game. all they have ever cared about is getting kills, they could care less about the game. they want to be catered to their whims and theyve gotten that everytime. and now its trickled down to this. smh....just my opinion though.
YuuuuuuuuuuuuuP
Post by: bustr on December 02, 2017, 06:07:40 PM
Some of you gents want fights over anything you can get away with because taking on Hitech won't get you anywhere and maybe ban sticked for your trouble. While you want to make sure any time you can to let everyone know you think Hitech is personally screwing your game and he is a meenie. A tank is not a tool that you can play this game in like a furball in a fighter. The complaints about the GV game all come down to that. You want your tanks to allow you to range the combat zone as an individual and wack everyone without the real world handicaps tanks in WW2 were hampered by. And then you demand some kind of faux WW2 realism at the same time.
Post by: Electroman on December 02, 2017, 06:21:30 PM
The "GV dar" has COMPLETELY taken away much of what was fun about GV'ing. Now, you have nothing but bomb****s and GV'ers popping up at a base within a minute usually of seeing the GV dar active. Not only that, it localizes the exact area to where a GV is so it helps the bomb****s greatly to instantly kill the GV's.
With respect...I appreciate the attempt to make changes to the game and try some different things / improvements - but this went WAY TO FAR to one side. You've taken away much of the GV tactics / strategy and a key part of the game. It was not just about the M3 resupply chain to a base as some have mentioned. This truly has put a major negative shift in the game to the point I and many others have reduced our GV'ing to almost nil...because it's pointless now.
Get rid of the dar...or at the very least don't localize the dar to where a vehicle is in the sector. And if the base radar is down...then the GV dar should be knocked out as well.
From a long time...and very disappointed player...
Elec1
Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 06:26:22 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 06:28:19 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Electroman on December 02, 2017, 06:31:44 PM
The MA makes no pretense at being "realism" other than Hitech's sense of how he sees things as part of his game design and to help the most customers have "fun".
Exactly...and it just KILLED the "fun" of GV'ing the way it was implemented. So instead of giving the most players the amount of "fun" and gaining new players...we're going backwards...again...and will lose a major part of the things we loved to hate - GV'ing...and is not going to make any more players start playing the game. All you will have is many people upset with it (more than for it) and that will be a distraction from gaining new players...or helping new players.
Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 06:38:26 PM
It seems to me, from what I have read, GV folks want to be immune to anything that would remove the camp and smash mentality. Is this the case?Maybe I guess? The GV game was changed a lot with just the release of AH3. More trees, dense brush lines, revamped terrains, list goes on. I guess thats biggest issue really...ITS CHANGED
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Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 06:42:34 PM
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Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 06:48:53 PM
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Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 06:50:01 PM
I understand that, but change is inevitable. There are some people putting forth some great constructive criticism and offering tangible solutions but there is this whole under current that speaks from the crowd that believe the game should cater to them. Also ground battles are not a separate mini game within a game. So, what is needed to tie the two together needs to be created.As I understand the division, it started when GVs were introduced into the game. The next big divide came with reduced numbers, you have AIR PURE-ISTS and GV enthusiasts like HOT/COLD, but you are correct they can be joined and work together. Every home has example in their bathroom tub and showers Some like hot baths some cold, a few right in middle. We need to find more of the middle :old:
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Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 06:51:11 PM
If people want reality with GV’ing, HiTech should implement forward observation posts around fields, towns and other structures. They should also install anti-tank defense around these as well.thats is what the GV dar is being tested to simulate as I understand it.
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Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 07:13:41 PM
Player and the first few iterations of “new” features will undergo several changes until it is dialed in.
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Post by: 1stpar3 on December 02, 2017, 07:18:23 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 02, 2017, 07:20:50 PM
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Post by: bustr on December 02, 2017, 07:24:32 PM
Post by: bustr on December 02, 2017, 07:34:06 PM
You can't demand realism for a WW2 reason while picking and choosing which klingon cloaking device can't be touched.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 02, 2017, 07:51:06 PM
Call it simulated forward observersMaybe a good idea to add to town defense ...
Recalling 3 man jungle listening posts 300 meters off the perimeter. Nothing more stressing as every sound is heightened and sounds like a hundred enemy sneaking around and the starlight scope was useless under the canopy. You couldn't wait till you turned it over to your squaddie and tried to shut off the sounds in your brain. Then .......... have 3 freaking elephants haul butt down the trail triggering every trip flare all but giving you a heart attack. :rofl You think tanks are loud ?
Maybe HT could put LP positions outside of towns with anti-tank weapons almost like a soft gun position.
Post by: WEZEL on December 02, 2017, 08:36:17 PM
Post by: CAV on December 02, 2017, 10:00:52 PM
Quote
As this is a GAME that really doesnt have anything to do with "realism" I think your a bit off point.
I think your a bit off point....
Quote
Aces High is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war
Hitech's words..... right off the AH Web page. If this is a simulation then it has every thing to do with REALISM. Hitech needs to makeup his mind on this... be a Sim or be game. If it is a sim he has work to do.... if it is a game he has already lost to War Thunder.
Post by: Delirium on December 02, 2017, 10:04:21 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Post by: Copprhed on December 02, 2017, 11:26:01 PM
Post by: bozon on December 03, 2017, 12:07:19 AM
If you want realism for GVs, start by wishing for supplies to stop fixing tanks, and for remote spawn points to be removed. Real tanks were not fixed or rearmed instantly, and it took days to get anywhere... on roads!
Then we can start the wishes to cancel the firing of the main gun from the commander position and the showing of plane radar dots on your clipboard.
Shall I go on?
Post by: 1stpar3 on December 03, 2017, 01:16:37 AM
Maybe a good idea to add to town defense ...Thats a pretty good idea! As of now, the 17pndr guns are useless because of where they placed...well for most players its an issue. For the record...I am not adverse to doing a way with Vehicle dar and Icons... IF like in WW2 tanking was just as much an team sport as having a wing man in the air game play. Unless they were in DIRECT contact with enemy, they were all using existing road and such. Might even foster a more cooperation aspect to tanking? I think that predominately no one would mind losing GV icons for this change? Would be a definite plus in MHO
Recalling 3 man jungle listening posts 300 meters off the perimeter. Nothing more stressing as every sound is heightened and sounds like a hundred enemy sneaking around and the starlight scope was useless under the canopy. You couldn't wait till you turned it over to your squaddie and tried to shut off the sounds in your brain. Then .......... have 3 freaking elephants haul butt down the trail triggering every trip flare all but giving you a heart attack. :rofl You think tanks are loud ?
Maybe HT could put LP positions outside of towns with anti-tank weapons almost like a soft gun position.
Post by: JunkyII on December 03, 2017, 01:46:06 AM
It's all about game play....does this change effect a players in game experience in a positive way or negative way.
Post by: Dundee on December 03, 2017, 01:52:28 AM
You just want more sheep.....Baaaaaaaaaaaaa!
If you can keep a secret ......the sheep are out......for good, but don't be sad the Unicorns and rainbows in the game will put a smile on your face :devil
Post by: Crash Orange on December 03, 2017, 02:25:04 AM
Then we can start the wishes to cancel the firing of the main gun from the commander position
I agree with everything else you said but Firing the gun from the commander position is more realistic than not being able to. The real tanks had 4- or 5-man crews that we don't have. It's the same reason guns are slaved in bombers. Before Hitech introduced WASD driving we used to have one guy having to scramble back and forth between the driver, gunner, and commander positions and it was terrible.
As far as the larger realism argument, without thousands of pairs of eyes on the ground the ground game is going to be unrealistic no matter what you do. Having GV dar is less unrealistic than having tanks driving around the battlefield without a single infantryman within 100 miles. And spawn points are more unrealistic than anything else in the game, but they make the game better as a game so we are happy to keep them.
If we really want to be realistic T-34s should require you to smack your joystick with a mallet to get them in gear and Tiger IIs should bog or break down half the time before getting anywhere near the enemy.
Post by: zack1234 on December 03, 2017, 03:07:54 AM
Post by: kavo on December 03, 2017, 03:29:52 PM
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 03, 2017, 11:21:07 PM
During the course of the video, I get nowhere. I enter a field and immediately begin to withdraw from it. No shots fired, none taken, basically a waste of time - 44 minutes of it. I never flashed the field and only briefly flashed town. Nonetheless I was searched mercilessly and prevented from towering to continue my game elsewhere.
Cybro was kind enough to make an appearance, by virtue of his FM2 ditched very close to the runway, we are able to see that during this entire video, the only tank, mine, never approached within 7k of that runway. By that measure the field would not flash, it did not flash, but that wasn't good enough for Wiley, who spent 25 of those 44 minutes glommed to the gv dar square, with me stuck watching his ineptitude. It took him two sorties to make the dawning conclusion that he might best affect the war elsewhere - and DartDig, what's up with that guy, almost 15 minutes in a storch over a field that isn't flashing smoking for tanks that do not advance. Storches should run out of gas after 15 minutes, this is absurd.
I know you won't trouble yourself to watch the entire thing, it is so booooring. Wiley makes his appearance at 15:00 and stays until the end and never drops a bomb anywhere near my tank. 20:20 is a nice perspective segment and to give you an idea of the distances involved, the typical trip from spawn to field, or town, is somewhere around 6k and occasionally a little over. Cybro's distance of 12 to 14k indicates we are twice as far out, I am beyond spawn distance and Wiley has NO business searching me out there and HiTech has facilitated the moronosity. I overlayed two screen shots of the clipboard showing how far out I was when the tanks where searching me and then just Wiley. You can see in the end it is just he and I and when he got far enough away for me to get a green end I took it. When Cybro is not in the player list, it is because I am over 14k from him and the field.
You misunderstand.
You are threatening to quit if the GV dar is not removed. Therefore you would stay, but only if you can hide.
What I'm saying is, it does not matter if you're hiding or just gone. Either way, you not participating in the fight.
The GV dar is a tool to bring back balance to the total combat system that was lost when the icons changed.
You don't like being hunted now? I say "Good." At least you're risking something now when you try to sneak a base or pork a strat.
You will want to demonstrate in this example how this balances the game. I went to a field and decided it was too heavily defended to press the attack. I am not hiding, I am not creeping, I am between 7k and 14k from the airfield and beyond, simply trying to get a green end sortie, which took 45 minutes to accomplish. In the video I drive for most of the duration, going to cover only for the bombers. It is not at all fair and balanced, that after withdrawing from an attack, I should have to wait 45 minutes and drive 10k, or suffer a proxy kill to someone that couldn't even take advantage of this fancy new "game balancing" gv dar. It is an insult to even begin to pretend this is a fair alternative to "airwars with human manned defenseless tanks to kill," because it is a far cry from a combat simulator.
The GV's are here to be food for attack planes.
Indeed. This is a typical sortie for me. I don't go to a field to hide, I go to attack and often end up getting driven to cover. I've had the freaking storches follow me all the way across sectors back to friendly fields. It is moronic, purposeless and this gv dar encourages the behavior.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 03, 2017, 11:36:57 PM
:ahand
Post by: RODBUSTR on December 04, 2017, 01:25:46 AM
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 04, 2017, 04:24:32 AM
Aw, how sad for you.Your opinion is no more meaningless than the cycles of the moon are predictable as they are both, both. The most complex relationship you have expressed is one between pots and pans and in that regard your humility is undetectable. Your statements serve as a foil for the content I upload for meaningful participants, like HiTech, spew on.
Post by: Copprhed on December 04, 2017, 06:58:39 AM
Post by: waystin2 on December 04, 2017, 07:11:11 AM
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 04, 2017, 07:53:23 AM
something something something sit and flash a baseReview the post and video, base wasn't flashing.
Post by: Oldman731 on December 04, 2017, 08:11:30 AM
It is not at all fair and balanced, that after withdrawing from an attack, I should have to wait 45 minutes and drive 10k, or suffer a proxy kill to someone that couldn't even take advantage of this fancy new "game balancing" gv dar.
You mean that it was so important to you not to let someone have an unearned proxy kill, that you wasted 45 minutes of your own time?
That is amazing.
- oldman
Post by: Tracerfi on December 04, 2017, 08:53:53 AM
This
You mean that it was so important to you not to let someone have an unearned proxy kill, that you wasted 45 minutes of your own time?
That is amazing.
- oldman
Post by: Copprhed on December 04, 2017, 09:14:41 AM
Review the post and video, base wasn't flashing.No, the statement you made about sitting and flashing a base for hours was earlier in this or another whine thread of yours. Kilroy, you aren't, in ANY way, trying to improve the game as a whole for everyone, you are only trying to insure the same "gaming the game" strategy that you have always used. You're well known for it, and frankly, very few people care if you don't get your way.
Post by: wil3ur on December 04, 2017, 09:29:47 AM
Seems to me the issues aren't the game. :old:
Post by: lunatic1 on December 04, 2017, 10:19:04 AM
gv's should have to hunt each other. and planes should have a reasonable chance at locating and trying to bomb gv's.
and don't ask me a reasonable chance should be.
:airplane:
Post by: wil3ur on December 04, 2017, 10:28:39 AM
Post by: Puma44 on December 04, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
You mean that it was so important to you not to let someone have an unearned proxy kill, that you wasted 45 minutes of your own time?
That is amazing.
- oldman
Some have lots O time to waste on something that doesn’t have any value and lose sight of the fun factor.
Post by: Dundee on December 04, 2017, 12:23:28 PM
Some have lots O time to waste on something that doesn’t have any value and lose sight of the fun factor.
Just remember in this game one man's grief is another man's joy
Post by: SPKmes on December 04, 2017, 12:45:40 PM
takes all types.... I have mentioned in another of these GVdar threads.... imagine if you will..the air con dar gave you the alt and direction of enemy cons...how would that sit...to me this GV dar is like that for the ground pounders.... major unfair advantage...especially when I can see one spawn in from the other side of the map....
Yes I believe there needs to be something in place to stop grievers but this is too far one way.... perhaps at D 600 when shut down the icon is visible through foliage.this way they have to keep moving to be invisible...however they can still be heard..I don't know...I don't coad...and have no intention of making a game.. so my input is from my playing perspective only
For me this particular system is way way too easy...It has even taken the pleasure of the hunt away for me...Granted...sometimes I just went away and left them to play their solitary game... we have so much info at our fingertips that I can watch the town and see when things have changed from elsewhere in plenty of time to thwart a take anyway... I don't think they fixed spawn camping either...simply make the choice at a v base to spawn from any hanger would have done it.... but it seems...building a wall is all any powers that be want to do these days hahahahaha ( sorry that last part was just a joke that I couldn't resist hahaha)
Post by: Mano on December 04, 2017, 01:17:20 PM
AH3 has more trees and the GV’s enjoy having some cover for once. Why ruin the cover by letting everyone know where the gv is with gv dar?
We already have sound, a base flashing, storches, and a red colored End Sortie if a an enemy is present.
An alternative to showing where the gv is would be to have a bar in that sector like the a/c.
The GV dar does not enhance gv play in AH. It does the complete opposite.
:salute
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 04, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
Wait -- so you need to get rid of GV Dar because it's so effective that it took someone 25 minutes of searching and still couldn't find you, even with the crutch, then you spent another 20 minutes not towering out so Cybro wouldn't get a proxy.Seems to me the issues aren't the game. GV dar has not been demonstrated to improve the game and since it's inception numbers have continued to dwindle, not grow. You clearly are speaking about a situation you know nothing about because you obviously did not review the video and twisting the words of my post merely reveal your underlying and uninformed agenda for what it is. Cybro wasn't even on the player list for the last 15 minutes, proxy distance was only an issue due to the failed searcher, perhaps it's your assertion that a gver's game experience be further degraded by being forced to award a kill to the person that couldn't find and kill a defenseless tank and wouldn't drive out and meet it in a fair fight.
no' we need to get rid of gv dar because it is unrealistic for WWII aircraft and vehicles.
gv's should have to hunt each other. and planes should have a reasonable chance at locating and trying to bomb gv's.
and don't ask me a reasonable chance should be.
This poster is informed. He clearly participated in the sortie that was part of the video. He also does not approve of gv dar and he was on the other side of the exact same situation. I have had dozens of sorties that play out to a similar theme. I notice HiTech visited the other day in his T2 and deemed the gv dar adequate, he had the enviable position of spawning under controlled skies where dive bombers and IL-s were actively hunting defending bish gv's. He did not get a balanced experience.
Here, during this sortie while I was tracked, it took another grindingly long interval before someone finally randomly bombed the tree I was under. This particular film was over 30 minutes and I accumulated 16 kills over the course of it:
(https://i.imgur.com/Zgi2sS8.jpg)
You can see the area is pockmarked like the Moon, evidentiary that they are randomly bombing the entire red sector and not actively finding and learning how to dive bomb gv's. Surely not what HiTech intended. A simple trick of slightly rewinding the film "re-triggers" all effects and the accumulated bomb strikes become glaringly obvious:
(https://i.imgur.com/7PGuHss.jpg)
During this same sortie there were as many as 10 Knights, not counting Cybro, searching one tank. Could the desire to make an advantaged kill be any more obvious and is this what HiTech intended?
(https://i.imgur.com/pXamEPf.jpg)
Post by: 27th on December 04, 2017, 02:02:44 PM
Please turn off GV dar.
AH3 has more trees and the GV’s enjoy having some cover for once. Why ruin the cover by letting everyone know where the gv is with gv dar?
We already have sound, a base flashing, storches, and a red colored End Sortie if a an enemy is present.
An alternative to showing where the gv is would be to have a bar in that sector like the a/c.
The GV dar does not enhance gv play in AH. It does the complete opposite.
:salute
Agreed with everything above.
Definitely. 100%.
Retract the GV dar.
It has become a regression of the game as a whole. That's a fact.
:salute
27th
Post by: waystin2 on December 04, 2017, 02:04:47 PM
Post by: Flayed1 on December 04, 2017, 02:13:42 PM
You mean that it was so important to you not to let someone have an unearned proxy kill, that you wasted 45 minutes of your own time?
That is amazing.
- oldman
I'm the same way. I try to land what ever I fly or drive and not give away proxy's. I even fly back and land goons after resuping strat factories. I guess I just like to attempt to treat each flight or drive as if it was somewhat real. So yes I can agree with him here and I feel that the GV dar should at least turn off if you are X distance from a field, town or strat. This being able to see where a GV is no matter where he is on the map is a bit of overkill in my opinion.
Post by: JOACH1M on December 04, 2017, 02:18:25 PM
Post by: Electroman on December 04, 2017, 02:39:06 PM
Post by: Oldman731 on December 04, 2017, 02:43:06 PM
I'm the same way. I try to land what ever I fly or drive and not give away proxy's. I even fly back and land goons after resuping strat factories. I guess I just like to attempt to treat each flight or drive as if it was somewhat real.
Sounds fine to me! But you aren't complaining that it's hard to do that because someone is out looking for you.
- oldman
Post by: Wiley on December 04, 2017, 02:50:53 PM
So I guess the next phase of implementation is to put 2 mile aircraft dar block squares for all aircraft in any given sectors (including the ones that have no bases / dar rings). I mean...we need to level the playing field here with aircraft so when I go up to hunt down an NME bomber or aircraft I will know exactly where it is within a 2 mile radius. We do want to level the playing field....right? I keep hearing that term so just repeating what has already been indicated...
Sure. Sounds good to me. Might want to back off the size of the indicator for aircraft to be as large as however long it takes a GV to cover one of those squares. Wait, that might be pretty close to 25 miles, mightn't it? I am seeing a parallel here...
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 03:06:14 PM
Please turn off GV dar.
AH3 has more trees and the GV’s enjoy having some cover for once. Why ruin the cover by letting everyone know where the gv is with gv dar?
We already have sound, a base flashing, storches, and a red colored End Sortie if a an enemy is present.
An alternative to showing where the gv is would be to have a bar in that sector like the a/c.
The GV dar does not enhance gv play in AH. It does the complete opposite.
:salute
I have said it many times before, but what was needed is more low level air action to stimulate interaction(combat) by all players. By increasing the ability for aircraft to hunt and attack GV's, the new GV dar should result more counter-GV sorties with a resulting need for fighters to kill the counter-GV'ers.
My advice to you is to start making friends with us fighter pilots - it might just save your life.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
Here, during this sortie while I was tracked, it took another grindingly long interval before someone finally randomly bombed the tree I was under. This particular film was over 30 minutes and I accumulated 16 kills over the course of it:
(https://i.imgur.com/Zgi2sS8.jpg)
You can see the area is pockmarked like the Moon, evidentiary that they are randomly bombing the entire red sector and not actively finding and learning how to dive bomb gv's. Surely not what HiTech intended. A simple trick of slightly rewinding the film "re-triggers" all effects and the accumulated bomb strikes become glaringly obvious:
(https://i.imgur.com/7PGuHss.jpg)
During this same sortie there were as many as 10 Knights, not counting Cybro, searching one tank. Could the desire to make an advantaged kill be any more obvious and is this what HiTech intended?
(https://i.imgur.com/pXamEPf.jpg)
Looks just like B-52's bombing the jungle in Vietnam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88jrZjsNHPc
Perfectly viable to carpet bomb an area when a hidden enemy is entrenched there.
Post by: waystin2 on December 04, 2017, 03:10:25 PM
Post by: Wiley on December 04, 2017, 03:12:36 PM
So I guess the next phase of implementation is to put 2 mile aircraft dar block squares for all aircraft in any given sectors (including the ones that have no bases / dar rings). I mean...we need to level the playing field here with aircraft so when I go up to hunt down an NME bomber or aircraft I will know exactly where it is within a 2 mile radius. We do want to level the playing field....right? I keep hearing that term so just repeating what has already been indicated...
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that would bring it closer inline with reality, with radar back then having a long range and being able to detect "something in that area" and a sense of how much there might be there. A 2x2 square would simulate the delay between the equipment and the radar operator seeing it and it getting out on the radio. Combined with bardar, it would be a reasonable amount of information. Sounds good to me!
The thing is, there are a lot of us that really don't mind if the enemy know where we are.
Also what Devil said. Unescorted bombers should be meat, they are meat. Uncovered GVs should be meat, they are meat now. The difference now is, the amount of time it takes to hunt down a GV indicator is reduced to a point where more people feel it's worthwhile to go after it. They used to be protected by the cone of boredom, and that protection is now gone.
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 03:13:22 PM
Post by: bustr on December 04, 2017, 03:28:15 PM
And storch pilots have turned into self preservation sissies at the same time. First thing anyone in a GV with a working MG does now is kill the storch. When my terrain BowlMA first came out I would fly a storch for my tank forces down between the trees vectoring my tanks onto enemy tanks. After awhile it became SOP by the enemy tanks to kill my storch any way they could. Then I watched no one play in that tank arena because you couldn't hide from the storch of any country. I bet GVDAR is kind of meaningless in there just like in the center of NDisles and Oceania.
GVDAR by no means reaches the level of persistent tank tracks following a GV around like having the old 6k Icon back. When we still had that I could land 5 kills of tanks and wirbels in an IL2 because I could plan my attack run by watching them on full zoom outside of effective gun range. It also made A20's into precision dive bombers with a number of players able to make several dives and popups in a row ending with a dead GV from each dive. They would use the 6k Icons to plan their attack path like hopping all over a checkers board.
You guys today have it made even with GVDAR, you can shut down and go invisible and your Icon shows up around the time it's too close for a plane to survive a good tanker. Hitech could always return it to before the change with the 6k Icon and most of you would be in the tower by spawning. It would bring back long range spawn camping with german optics along with the A20 dive bombers.
When you distill this complaint down it comes out: I demand to always be invisible to shoot people in the back, and get away with it, because tanks are too vulnerable once you can see them.
Since tanks give themselves away in the real world by driving somewhere, Hitech could always remove the Icon when you shut down. Then put the 6k Icon back on you when you have your engine running to make up for not showing dust plumes and persistent tank treads in the ground telling everyone where you are. Also increase the blast size and visual intensity of the main gun so you give away your position like in real life. I still can't see most of the tank rounds coming into the feilds I'm on and listen to players panicking at the same field trying to see them with me. Compared to AH2, with the new GVDAR, AH3 GV's are cloaked birds of prey with flash suppressors and almost no tracer content in their rounds. If that is on purpose then it is a game programing concession to give tankers a larger impact and chance of survival than they would have in real life under our micro combat conditions around feilds.
Post by: bangsbox on December 04, 2017, 03:28:23 PM
I feel like the dar really only represents a scouting report anyway.
Post by: wil3ur on December 04, 2017, 03:39:50 PM
I got me a new video, 44 minutes of this so called "gv dar"
Wiley, who spent 25 of those 44 minutes glommed to the gv dar square, with me stuck watching his ineptitude. It took him two sorties to make the dawning conclusion that he might best affect the war elsewhere.
Tell me how I'm misunderstanding this... You specifically state you were able to sit in a sector for 45 minutes without being spotted, even with GVDAR -- AND that even with a storch, they were still unable to find you.
If anything, being invisible still to a storch would point out the need for some sort of balance on the game, if even the scout plane designed to find GV's has a hard time even with the crutch of GVDAR.
So -- what I'm getting from your post is, you sat there for 45 minutes and still hadn't been spotted, which somehow validates your claim that GVDAR is too powerful...
Again, tell me how I misinterpreted this. :ahand
Post by: Wiley on December 04, 2017, 04:23:28 PM
Tell me how I'm misunderstanding this... You specifically state you were able to sit in a sector for 45 minutes without being spotted, even with GVDAR -- AND that even with a storch, they were still unable to find you.
If anything, being invisible still to a storch would point out the need for some sort of balance on the game, if even the scout plane designed to find GV's has a hard time even with the crutch of GVDAR.
So -- what I'm getting from your post is, you sat there for 45 minutes and still hadn't been spotted, which somehow validates your claim that GVDAR is too powerful...
Again, tell me how I misinterpreted this. :ahand
Ugh... I had a bad feeling that video was me before I actually read his post. That was my sortie to see what all this GV dar stuff is about. To be fair, for a fair bit of that I knew where he was. It was a combination of getting disoriented when I'd flip to drop and looking at what angles I could/couldn't see him from. That bomb drop was not my finest hour to be sure.
Wiley.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 04, 2017, 04:48:35 PM
Tell me how I'm misunderstanding this... You specifically state you were able to sit in a sector for 45 minutes without being spotted, even with GVDAR -- AND that even with a storch, they were still unable to find you.
If anything, being invisible still to a storch would point out the need for some sort of balance on the game, if even the scout plane designed to find GV's has a hard time even with the crutch of GVDAR.
So -- what I'm getting from your post is, you sat there for 45 minutes and still hadn't been spotted, which somehow validates your claim that GVDAR is too powerful...
Again, tell me how I misinterpreted this. :ahand
The problem is he didn't get the chance to land 16 kills after the game of "hide and seek" of 45 minutes.
Post by: wil3ur on December 04, 2017, 04:49:23 PM
The problem is he didn't get the chance to land 16 kills after the game of "hide and seek" of 45 minutes.
:rofl :aok
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 04, 2017, 05:52:51 PM
Tell me how I'm misunderstanding this... You specifically state you were able to sit in a sector for 45 minutes without being spotted, even with GVDAR -- AND that even with a storch, they were still unable to find you.
If anything, being invisible still to a storch would point out the need for some sort of balance on the game, if even the scout plane designed to find GV's has a hard time even with the crutch of GVDAR.
So -- what I'm getting from your post is, you sat there for 45 minutes and still hadn't been spotted, which somehow validates your claim that GVDAR is too powerful...
Again, tell me how I misinterpreted this.
During the course of the video, I get nowhere. I enter a field and immediately begin to withdraw from it. No shots fired, none taken, basically a waste of time - 44 minutes of it. I never flashed the field and only briefly flashed town. Nonetheless I was searched mercilessly and prevented from towering to continue my game elsewhere.
Looks just like B-52's bombing the jungle in Vietnam.
Perfectly viable to carpet bomb an area when a hidden enemy is entrenched there.
It was ineffectual, does not promote combat, promotes bomb****eness..tell us, in what WWII battle did Lancasters fly in formations of 3, saturating saturating active battlefields or hidden tanks?
Was anyone else clapping when the tank blew up? Wish he would have posted video!OMG banana brains :banana:, look at the chat buffer. The explosion is kumori, kill #16 right after StRazor, #15. You look at the time above and it is 18:26 of a 31:38 movie meaning I had to wait 13 more minutes before someone finally bombed the only tree without a crater. You don't need a movie you need SA.
My advice to you is to start making friends with us fighter pilots - it might just save your life.
Do you even fly any more? Certainly no the the MA where this discussion involves and the most recent record I could find of you or Lachender Teufeiskopf Gruppe is from a FSO bulletin from 2014. Were we even using version 3 then?
Ugh... I had a bad feeling that video was me before I actually read his post. That was my sortie to see what all this GV dar stuff is about. To be fair, for a fair bit of that I knew where he was. It was a combination of getting disoriented when I'd flip to drop and looking at what angles I could/couldn't see him from. That bomb drop was not my finest hour to be sure.
Wiley.
To be fair? What do you mean by fair, that you were't stupid, that you actually knew where I was but were intentionally making me endure your two disorientation runs? That's your idea of fair, or whatever. My bad luck for being online when you wanted to experiment.
Post by: wil3ur on December 04, 2017, 06:00:58 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 06:15:12 PM
It was ineffectual, does not promote combat, promotes bomb****eness..tell us, in what WWII battle did Lancasters fly in formations of 3, saturating saturating active battlefields or hidden tanks?
The entire 9th airforce engaged in attacking any position where the Wehrmacht or Waffen SS were known to be placed as well as their direct supply lines. So no Lanks, but plenty of U.S. bombers and fighters did exactly that.
Quote
Do you even fly any more? Certainly no the the MA where this discussion involves and the most recent record I could find of you or Lachender Teufeiskopf Gruppe is from a FSO bulletin from 2014. Were we even using version 3 then?
I fly every Friday and a occasionally during the week. LTG was the FSO squad that branched out of Kommando Nowonty in 2014. We have always been KN in the MA. And there are plenty of post regarding KN/LTG. you need to read more. But then again, the exploits of a top notch fighter squad does not seem to be your style.
Post by: Wiley on December 04, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
My bad luck for being online when you wanted to experiment.
Yup. Joys of open world gaming.
Wiley.
Post by: Oldman731 on December 04, 2017, 06:20:22 PM
tell us, in what WWII battle did Lancasters fly in formations of 3, saturating saturating active battlefields or hidden tanks?
"Shortly before dawn on 18 July [1944, since you hadn't heard of it before], the Highland infantry in the south of the Orne bridgehead, quietly retired 0.5 mi (0.80 km) from the front line.[110] At 05:45, 1,056 Handley Page Halifax and Avro Lancaster heavy bombers flying at 3,000 ft (910 m) dropped 4,800 long tons (4,900 t) of high explosive bombs around Colombelles, the steelworks, on the positions of the 21st Panzer Division and on the village of Cagny, reducing half of it to rubble." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Goodwood#Operation_Atlantic
- oldman
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 06:34:36 PM
"Shortly before dawn on 18 July [1944, since you hadn't heard of it before], the Highland infantry in the south of the Orne bridgehead, quietly retired 0.5 mi (0.80 km) from the front line.[110] At 05:45, 1,056 Handley Page Halifax and Avro Lancaster heavy bombers flying at 3,000 ft (910 m) dropped 4,800 long tons (4,900 t) of high explosive bombs around Colombelles, the steelworks, on the positions of the 21st Panzer Division and on the village of Cagny, reducing half of it to rubble." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Goodwood#Operation_Atlantic
- oldman
Oh look, the Lanks got theirs too.
:aok
Post by: bustr on December 04, 2017, 06:46:44 PM
The easiest terrain feature to find GV's with a storch is the European village complex from the Europ tileset. Just get low, tree top or lower and follow the convenient grid of roads and feilds. Still it's easier in real life to see something as large as a tank if someone hasn't dug out a hide for it and cleaned up its tread tracks that say follow me, follow me. In real life we don't have that strange morphing together of objects just outside of gun range for wirbles and main guns the graphics engine does as you get farther away. Or separated and clarified as you go close enough to be suddenly skeet shot from the air. Combine that with the cloaking the trees do at steeper angles and the combat area is full of invisible tanks.
Anyone ever noticed that sitting in a wirble under some trees that there seems to be an invisible bubble around all the leaves inside of which an airplane flying over, it's Icon disappears as you look up through the canopy? Wonder if this is working in reverse as part of the cloaking the GVs get for their Icon not displaying? Part of the time when I get low in a storch and close up, I can make out the GV, but, if there are some leaves and branches involved, the Icon never appears. Then I can loose orientation of the GV and end up placing myself back in too close for a main gun or MG skeet session. The storch is not what it used to be when it was first introduced in AH2 when it comes to seeing hiding GVs at it's max visual range. For the amount of effort to kill tanks with planes, pretty much they are nearly Icon less in AH3.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 04, 2017, 10:18:52 PM
Except that "fair shake" for GV's is what HTC is moving towards, not away from.
The system has been imbalanced since before you even started playing.
Suck it up.
:rofl Devil your sense of "fair shake" is warped. :D
Post by: molybdenum on December 04, 2017, 10:38:20 PM
Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking as well. It’s a shame that some people can’t see the value of this system and instead of being constructive they pretty much stomp their feet and threaten or actually cancel their sub, which in a way is ridiculous but hey, it’s your money and if you don’t find value in this game anymore, there’s the door. On a side note, no system is perfect for every single
Player and the first few iterations of “new” features will undergo several changes until it is dialed in.
I've tried to be constructive, but it hasn't been received well. The strategy aspect of the game is being sacrificed on the altar of purposeless action. Or so, it seems, at least, to me, and the GV dar is just the latest and most egregious example.
I'm out. Have fun, guys. I'll miss a lot of you.
<S> Havermyr
Post by: Devil 505 on December 04, 2017, 10:46:34 PM
:rofl Devil your sense of "fair shake" is warped. :D
Assuming that you started playing at the same point that your BBS account was made, you never even experience pre-Storch AH with the 6K for everything icons.
Before the new GV icons rules came in, there was much more use of anti-GV sorties by planes. Now, they did not disappear immediately after the change, but the usage rate decreased over time as more and more pilots determined this to be a waste of time - especially after guys figured how easy it was to ambush a plane with a Wirbelwind. Another big change that no one has mentioned was when the Il-2 lost use of F3 mode. After this they became much more rare to see.
Another thing you never experienced was pre-commander view GV'ing.
You had to drive from the driver's seat, shoot from the gunner's seat, and could only look around from the top MG. You had to be good at moving around the tank to be successful at anything other than pure spawn camping.
Point is, you have no idea how much harder it used to be or how every change that affected GV's over the last 7 years until the GV dar has only made GVing easier.
Now that HTC has made an attempt to correct the imbalance in GV interactions with aircraft, you all have come here crying like Chicken Little and claiming that there is some bias against GV'ing. The track record says otherwise.
Post by: rvflyer on December 05, 2017, 12:02:19 AM
Yes, everyone INCLUDING HiTech is out to ruin your game. We're all in on it. We have meetings every Saturday at 10:30 down at the local Y where we come up with new ways to make your game life miserable. :noid
Post by: rvflyer on December 05, 2017, 12:07:45 AM
Assuming that you started playing at the same point that your BBS account was made, you never even experience pre-Storch AH with the 6K for everything icons.
Before the new GV icons rules came in, there was much more use of anti-GV sorties by planes. Now, they did not disappear immediately after the change, but the usage rate decreased over time as more and more pilots determined this to be a waste of time - especially after guys figured how easy it was to ambush a plane with a Wirbelwind. Another big change that no one has mentioned was when the Il-2 lost use of F3 mode. After this they became much more rare to see.
Another thing you never experienced was pre-commander view GV'ing.
You had to drive from the driver's seat, shoot from the gunner's seat, and could only look around from the top MG. You had to be good at moving around the tank to be successful at anything other than pure spawn camping.
Point is, you have no idea how much harder it used to be or how every change that affected GV's over the last 7 years until the GV dar has only made GVing easier.
Now that HTC has made an attempt to correct the imbalance in GV interactions with aircraft, you all have come here crying like Chicken Little and claiming that there is some bias against GV'ing. The track record says otherwise.
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 05, 2017, 12:19:16 AM
Yes, everyone INCLUDING HiTech is out to ruin your game. We're all in on it. We have meetings every Saturday at 10:30 down at the local Y where we come up with new ways to make your game life miserable.Read the posts you troll. 45 minuted no kills, green end sortie, landed. 31 minutes, 16 kills, no green end tracked. Say something, anything meaningful beyond a shiz ton of regurgitated negativity.
Assuming that you started playing at the same point that your BBS account was made, you never even experience pre-Storch AH with the 6K for everything icons.
Guess your cousin/momma missed the lesson about assuming along with the one about comparing people to pots and pans. Yes dumb cluck this is a new account. When I started there were two 200 person arena's, besides the DA and you had to wait to get in. Take your history lesson and stuff it, get your donut back in the cockpit and stop talking out of it. You'd be amazed how much the game has changed since you actually participated.
Gosh, I know, quoting an account of a bomber sortie sure sounds like bombers are actually participating in war, don't it duckie. Let's see, from 3k, bombers bombed a steelworks, which is a factory, which is what bombers did. Bomb factories. Maybe because the term "Panzer Division" is used, we are able to pretend that is an active battlefield and not an encircled town called "Cagny." That is what bombers did, destroyed entrenched positions. That is not a "battlefield," except in the loosest sense. Still not Lancs at 800 feet searching for a single tank. Get real. You seek to contradict me with dicts that aren't even contra. What is your point? The situation of the in game sortie depicted in the video is not at all like a WWII battle and certainly not balanced gaming and your quoted passage did nothing to address either point.
"Shortly before dawn on 18 July [1944, since you hadn't heard of it before], the Highland infantry in the south of the Orne bridgehead, quietly retired 0.5 mi (0.80 km) from the front line.[110] At 05:45, 1,056 Handley Page Halifax and Avro Lancaster heavy bombers flying at 3,000 ft (910 m) dropped 4,800 long tons (4,900 t) of high explosive bombs around Colombelles, the steelworks, on the positions of the 21st Panzer Division and on the village of Cagny, reducing half of it to rubble." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Goodwood#Operation_Atlantic
- oldman
The game is either a war simulator, or it's a dogfight simulator with tanks to bomb. I used to populate tanks because it was fun and a very effective way to affect the war. The gv dar changed that and removed the effectiveness of tanks. It did not improve combat, it encouraged people to try to kill something without risk of being killed, resulting in 10 people searching one tank. Ain't gonna populate a tank to bomb and I don't need to argue about it. I went out there, I did the sorties, I recorded the films and I composed them to Youtube. It's a LOT of freaking time outside the simulator and I've done my part. Those of you that type instead of fly can piss off.
Yup. Joys of open world gaming.Oh I've done a pizz ton of open world gaming, I create content for flight simulators. This is the only one I've ever seen where the paying customers are the test subjects, not an enviable business model.
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 05, 2017, 12:25:02 AM
Not a good indicator of how long a person has been playing the game, I was playing for a few years before I ever came to the forum.
I get that. That's why I prefaced it that way, because I don't know. Also this way I can approach his opinions as being just uninformed instead of blatantly ignorant.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 05, 2017, 12:29:58 AM
Guess your cousin/momma missed the lesson about assuming along with the one about comparing people to pots and pans. Yes dumb cluck this is a new account. When I started there were two 200 person arena's, besides the DA and you had to wait to get in. Take your history lesson and stuff it, get your donut back in the cockpit and stop talking out of it. You'd be amazed how much the game has changed since you actually participated.
Ha! What was your name before Killroy then, tough guy?
Why don't you actually try doing something positive for this game of ours instead of acting like a dirtbag all the time?
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 05, 2017, 12:51:34 AM
Assuming that you started playing at the same point that your BBS account was made, you never even experience pre-Storch AH with the 6K for everything icons.
Before the new GV icons rules came in, there was much more use of anti-GV sorties by planes. Now, they did not disappear immediately after the change, but the usage rate decreased over time as more and more pilots determined this to be a waste of time - especially after guys figured how easy it was to ambush a plane with a Wirbelwind. Another big change that no one has mentioned was when the Il-2 lost use of F3 mode. After this they became much more rare to see.
Another thing you never experienced was pre-commander view GV'ing.
You had to drive from the driver's seat, shoot from the gunner's seat, and could only look around from the top MG. You had to be good at moving around the tank to be successful at anything other than pure spawn camping.
Point is, you have no idea how much harder it used to be or how every change that affected GV's over the last 7 years until the GV dar has only made GVing easier.
Now that HTC has made an attempt to correct the imbalance in GV interactions with aircraft, you all have come here crying like Chicken Little and claiming that there is some bias against GV'ing. The track record says otherwise.
What ever, keep up your whining, your not doing your side any good with your childish replies. I do not and will not play the way you want me to. :neener:
Post by: JOACH1M on December 05, 2017, 01:20:16 AM
Post by: Copprhed on December 05, 2017, 03:56:45 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: waystin2 on December 05, 2017, 07:04:35 AM
See Rule #4
Post by: Oldman731 on December 05, 2017, 08:06:33 AM
Gosh, I know, quoting an account of a bomber sortie sure sounds like bombers are actually participating in war, don't it duckie. Let's see, from 3k, bombers bombed a steelworks, which is a factory, which is what bombers did. Bomb factories. Maybe because the term "Panzer Division" is used, we are able to pretend that is an active battlefield and not an encircled town called "Cagny." That is what bombers did, destroyed entrenched positions. That is not a "battlefield," except in the loosest sense. Still not Lancs at 800 feet searching for a single tank. Get real. You seek to contradict me with dicts that aren't even contra. What is your point? The situation of the in game sortie depicted in the video is not at all like a WWII battle and certainly not balanced gaming and your quoted passage did nothing to address either point.
Sorry you aren't feeling well. Here's another quote, this time from Johnnie Johnson's book, "Wing Leader." The event occurs right after the mass raid described above.
"Instead of turning to the north to set course for England after dropping its load, one of the Lancasters came down in a fairly steep dive towards the strongly defended enemy-held territory south of the city. I watched this manoeuvre in some amazement as the Lancaster would soon find itself a solitary target for the German Flak. Perhaps the aircraft had had its controls shot away or damaged and could only fly in this fashion. But wait, the bomber has now levelled out and is still flying due south only a few feet above the main Caen-Falaise road. Amazed, I watch its antics. What the hell is the pilot up to? I soon discover the object of the low-level flight. This road, which is one of the enemy's main supply routes, is packed here and there with stationary tanks, armoured cars and vehicles.
As it sweeps down the road, both front and rear turrets of the bomber are in action and the gunners are firing long bursts into the enemy vehicles. There is a considerable amount of light flak, but the pilot obviously scorns this small stuff, since he is accustomed to a nightly barrage of heavy flak over the industrial cities of Germany. For him this affair is a bit of a lark, and like a schoolboy away from the vigilance of his prefect he is making the most of his freedom.
Now the Lancaster carries out a slow wide turn to re-trace its flight northwards to Caen. Majestically it ploughs along over the straight road with rear and front guns blazing away. Enemy drivers and crews abandon their vehicles as the Lancaster pounds along and dive for the shelter of the hedgerows. But what is this? Another Lancaster has appeared on the scene and is carrying out similar tactics. The first Lancaster is flying north. The second is steaming south. Both are over the centre of the highway and both avoid each other with a careful little swerve.
Speechless, I watch the role of fighter-bomber being carried out, and most effectively, by the four-engined heavies. But now it is all over. The original glamour boy has climbed away to the north for his homeward journey and the second is pulling up from his strafing run."
If you don't have the book, the quote also appears in AH's archives (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=30570.0) and at least one other place on the web (http://www.ww2f.com/threads/lancaster-fighter-bomber-at-caen.3938/).
My point? First, you said Lancs never attacked tanks, so I thought you'd be interested to see that they did. In a broader sense, people can do many things in AH that they ordinarily didn't do historically, but of which their weapons were capable. Dogfighting A-20s and Mosquitos, carrier fleets 600 yards offshore, one-man tanks come to mind immediately. That you were being chased by a Lanc is unusual, but certainly not impossible.
- oldman
Post by: +Kilroy+ on December 05, 2017, 08:49:10 AM
My point? First, you said Lancs never attacked tanks, so I thought you'd be interested to see that they did.I did not say Lancs never attacked tanks, you misquote me.
It was ineffectual, does not promote combat, promotes bomb****eness..tell us, in what WWII battle did Lancasters fly in formations of 3, saturating saturating active battlefields or hidden tanks?
And I included a screen capture of my immediate vicinity saturated with bomb craters. Lancs NEVER lifted from an airfield, climbed to 1000', flew 4 miles, dropped their load on enemy positions and landed again. The practice is an absurd concatenation of game abilities that is IN NO WAY similar to WWII and to persist along these lines is equally absurd as it does nothing to inform knowledgeably on behalf, or against gv dar and - possibly - serves to make the poster "right." On that basis, point taken, Lancs flew in WW 2.
Post by: hitech on December 05, 2017, 09:09:59 AM
I did not say Lancs never attacked tanks, you misquote me.
And I included a screen capture of my immediate vicinity saturated with bomb craters. Lancs NEVER lifted from an airfield, climbed to 1000', flew 4 miles, dropped their load on enemy positions and landed again. The practice is an absurd concatenation of game abilities that is IN NO WAY similar to WWII and to persist along these lines is equally absurd as it does nothing to inform knowledgeably on behalf, or against gv dar and - possibly - serves to make the poster "right." On that basis, point taken, Lancs flew in WW 2.
Ok now it has gotten to the point of ridiculous.
Just so I understand this correctly , you are complaining about bombers taking off and bombing something 4 miles away. While having absolutely no issue with pressing a button and being moved instantly to a few miles away from a town.
This is a case of selective realism to the extreme.
Especially since the case you are complaining about IS possible in the real world although never attempted because the case never arouse , and the case you ARE Ok with is not, because teleportation was never invented.
I had been considering turning on the range portion of the vehicle sector indicator. I.E. the sector would only turn red if you were withing 9 miles of the sector, but do to your posts I'm not sure I that the change is needed. Because in an attempt to bolster your argument you feel you feel the need to make posts like this.
HiTech
Post by: 8thJinx on December 05, 2017, 09:21:33 AM
I had been considering turning on the range portion of the vehicle sector indicator. I.E. the sector would only turn red if you were withing 9 miles of the sector, but do to your posts I'm not sure I that the change is needed. Because in an attempt to bolster your argument you feel you feel the need to make posts like this.
HiTech
Thaaaaaankkss Kilroyyyy :bhead
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 05, 2017, 09:48:02 AM
Looks just like B-52's bombing the jungle in Vietnam.Unit got staged a distance from a planned target area at Cu Chi in '68. Scattered clouds and never saw the planes, but the drop was an awesome drawn out rumble with ground shudders. When we were sent to the target area to assess tunnel damage, body count or survivors, the area looked like a moonscape. Some of the craters were yuuuuge, especially among tunnel complexes.. Awesome power in that bombers payload. Great video.
Perfectly viable to carpet bomb an area when a hidden enemy is entrenched there.
In the game under a formation of Lancs with salvo 10 in a town could approximate that on a smaller scale.
Post by: popeye on December 05, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
the sector would only turn red if you were withing 9 miles of the sector
+1
Post by: TheBug on December 05, 2017, 11:19:45 AM
Post by: wil3ur on December 05, 2017, 11:51:11 AM
This is a case of selective realism to the extreme.
Don't forget, icon range was only 2K in WWII! :old:
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 05, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Don't forget, icon range was only 2K in WWII! :old:
Are you sure?? I thought the Germans had 2k and we had 3k, of course I could be wrong. :x Of course your point is meaningless in Aces High.
Post by: horble on December 05, 2017, 07:08:03 PM
Post by: Becinhu on December 05, 2017, 07:36:53 PM
Well the new GV dar certainly didn't just stop the bishops from taking a field we were defending from the air. Apparently if you coordinate and bring some AA vehicles you can defend yourselves from those pesky airplanes!
Sir you just posted a statement that proves the OP is whining. Please edit your post and rephrase it as a legitimate whine. We cannot have valid points posted in a whine thread. This is your final warning.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: 8thJinx on December 05, 2017, 08:18:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong:
Red square visible to a pilot if he/she is 9k from a GV
Red square visible to a GV'er if he/she is 6k from a GV
Post by: rvflyer on December 06, 2017, 12:06:16 AM
Unit got staged a distance from a planned target area at Cu Chi in '68. Scattered clouds and never saw the planes, but the drop was an awesome drawn out rumble with ground shudders. When we were sent to the target area to assess tunnel damage, body count or survivors, the area looked like a moonscape. Some of the craters were yuuuuge, especially among tunnel complexes.. Awesome power in that bombers payload. Great video.
In the game under a formation of Lancs with salvo 10 in a town could approximate that on a smaller scale.
Post by: EagleOne on December 06, 2017, 07:49:26 AM
Post by: EagleOne on December 06, 2017, 07:51:55 AM
Post by: Vraciu on December 06, 2017, 09:42:55 AM
The GV hunter gets bored or runs out of gas because trying to find your cowardly arse in the bushes is an exercise in futility given the current GV icons.
+1
I only find GVs now by accident.
Post by: hitech on December 06, 2017, 10:29:13 AM
give us new planes or something, wasting time tweaking radar options is ridiculous...
Or something like the new tournament system?
Or something like the new match play instant action?
The addition of a system to see that a vehicle is around is something I have been wanted to add since AH3 was released. I simply finally got around to writing it after more then a year.
HiTech
Post by: wil3ur on December 06, 2017, 10:32:27 AM
Post by: TWCAxew on December 06, 2017, 10:43:34 AM
Is it to promote player interaction?
Is it against sneeks?
Or would HiTech likes players to play in a different way?
Could you give us some more insight of your thought process HiTech? I am sure everyone will understand better when they are more involved in the proces.
DutchVII
Post by: Zoney on December 06, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
I am now inspired to hone my skills hunting GV's from fighters. While I am low and looking to engage the GV's, I fully expect enemy fighters to engage me, resulting in a fight.
Sometimes, I'm sure, I will engage enemy fighters who are low and hunting in GV's, resulting in a fight.
I appreciate the new tools given to us and applaud HiTech for making this change.
The end result will surely be more fights, and a whole lot less sneaking around in missions that in my opinion were not much more than griefing.
Post by: TheBug on December 06, 2017, 11:17:25 AM
Post by: hitech on December 06, 2017, 11:37:00 AM
Could you give us some more insight of your thought process HiTech?
For the exact same reason there are Sector Counts.
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
HiTech
Post by: Wiley on December 06, 2017, 11:51:22 AM
Post by: wil3ur on December 06, 2017, 11:59:23 AM
It still takes flying very low and doing grid searches trying to find the vehicles, and I was quickly targeted by wirblewinds who opened up on me before there was any icon visible, managing to knock out one of my engines before I was able to drop a single bomb.
I think it's a great tool for finding a fight, but don't think it adds any unfair abilities to planes over GVs, and GVs still have their ubercloaking system making it nearly impossible to see until it's nearly too late for your pilot.
Post by: EagleOne on December 06, 2017, 12:04:03 PM
Post by: popeye on December 06, 2017, 12:15:22 PM
Post by: 27th on December 06, 2017, 12:57:06 PM
The addition of a system to see that a vehicle is around is something I have been wanted to add since AH3 was released. I simply finally got around to writing it after more then a year.
HiTech
I rarely go into these forums other than the "Wish List" but GVDarBar I have been giving my passionate disapproval. This has been a few steps back from progression.
I understand a lot of work has been put into it. The fact of the matter is that the GV aspect has been neutered.
The art of surprise of the location of the GV is gone.
The first warning as we all know is the blinking of a town or base or both. But it is up to the individual to check what's is making it blink and decide if its a GV attack or an NOE mission. Am I going to take a B25H, IL2 or a 109K4 or a Spitfire? Those who are lazy, impatient, or ignore the warning will receive the consequences of their base getting destroyed or taken. To give an aid to a person at the tower and a person in flight in that area immediately has implications of people not taking more risks, due to perk costs, the Tiger 2, JagPanther fears of being bombed, or give up entirely on that venue. It's neutering GV aspect of helping the main idea of winning the war.
The resuslts are already instantaneous I can already see.
At base, the start of an attack:
An fighter/bomber inside a dar bar is much differnet because you buy time for reaction with altitude and speed. The amount of time the enemy plane see you at dar and react to counter you.
A GVdarbar you know its coming and where its coming from. There is no altitude advantage nor speed. The defender who has time to get a resonable altitude to drop on the GV's and kill them.
Lastly, what I hear in this post and what I have been hearing for the past year since the inception of AH3,the consensus is the trees are thick and at times too much of it. (I would quickly add, that trees did kill tank town inside that large crater map.) Anyhow if thats the case, much respect HiTech, I think this gvdarbar is the improper addition should be retracted.
Thank you.
:salute
27th
Post by: waystin2 on December 06, 2017, 01:11:39 PM
So finally got around to GV hunting with the new GVDAR. It honestly did nothing more for me than could previously be done by watching bases, towns, SBs flash. It does let me know if there's 1 or 2, or a gaggle coming through, which was helpful.It's a secondary tool at best. You still have to rely on the tried and true. What do I see? What do I hear? What's happening at town or field? Etc. If you use it as a primary you will have blinders on. :aok
It still takes flying very low and doing grid searches trying to find the vehicles, and I was quickly targeted by wirblewinds who opened up on me before there was any icon visible, managing to knock out one of my engines before I was able to drop a single bomb.
I think it's a great tool for finding a fight, but don't think it adds any unfair abilities to planes over GVs, and GVs still have their ubercloaking system making it nearly impossible to see until it's nearly too late for your pilot.
Post by: 8thJinx on December 06, 2017, 01:38:49 PM
I am now inspired to hone my skills hunting GV's from fighters. While I am low and looking to engage the GV's, I fully expect enemy fighters to engage me, resulting in a fight.
Word to the wise, Zoney, don't get so low that you're in range of my T34's main gun.
Post by: wil3ur on December 06, 2017, 01:43:24 PM
Word to the wise, Zoney, don't get so low that you're in range of my T34's main gun.
Speaking of completely unbalanced and unrealistic... lobbing HE shells at the ground or trees to blow up an airplane flying right over you, but not getting any damage yourself, and laser precision bore sights on the tanks seem overbalanced, especially on the smooth bore guns like the M4.
Perhaps we could get rid of GV dar in favor of making a 2K+ shot nearly impossible in a tank as it was in WWII and make HE explosions close to the tank cause pilot wounds to the crew (ruptured eardrums, liquefied innards...)
We could do that, and it'd be more realistic for everyone! :x :bolt:
Post by: thndregg on December 06, 2017, 02:02:49 PM
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
HiTech
Hopefully not at the expense of starting another fight. ;) I don't mind partaking in an already existing battle, but my brain is always looking for off-the-beaten-path ways to throw the enemy off in the big picture while I'm actively engaged in the moment of combat.
I like unpredictability. It has a way of starting a new fight after I get tired of the "line of ants" scenario.
Post by: Dundee on December 06, 2017, 02:09:05 PM
Post by: Electroman on December 06, 2017, 03:08:52 PM
I rarely go into these forums other than the "Wish List" but GVDarBar I have been giving my passionate disapproval. This has been a few steps back from progression.
I understand a lot of work has been put into it. The fact of the matter is that the GV aspect has been neutered.
The art of surprise of the location of the GV is gone.
The first warning as we all know is the blinking of a town or base or both. But it is up to the individual to check what's is making it blink and decide if its a GV attack or an NOE mission. Am I going to take a B25H, IL2 or a 109K4 or a Spitfire? Those who are lazy, impatient, or ignore the warning will receive the consequences of their base getting destroyed or taken. To give an aid to a person at the tower and a person in flight in that area immediately has implications of people not taking more risks, due to perk costs, the Tiger 2, JagPanther fears of being bombed, or give up entirely on that venue. It's neutering GV aspect of helping the main idea of winning the war.
The resuslts are already instantaneous I can already see.
At base, the start of an attack:
An fighter/bomber inside a dar bar is much differnet because you buy time for reaction with altitude and speed. The amount of time the enemy plane see you at dar and react to counter you.
A GVdarbar you know its coming and where its coming from. There is no altitude advantage nor speed. The defender who has time to get a resonable altitude to drop on the GV's and kill them.
Lastly, what I hear in this post and what I have been hearing for the past year since the inception of AH3,the consensus is the trees are thick and at times too much of it. (I would quickly add, that trees did kill tank town inside that large crater map.) Anyhow if thats the case, much respect HiTech, I think this gvdarbar is the improper addition should be retracted.
Thank you.
:salute
27th
+1 :aok Exactly 27th! I don't have an issue so much with the dar bar but I do with the location zeroing in on the GV's to a 2 mile square. It makes it much easier to find GV's (depending on the map if there are those crappy palm trees then you are almost completely visible versus dense trees) and this now gives the bomb****s a much greater unbalanced advantage. Pretty much any time now a GV ups at a spawn point there is instantly an A-20 / IL2 / Hvy ftr up to kill it - usually successful in a very short time. There is no more element of surprise from a GV'er.
Another example is if I wanted to do a long distance drive to a strat in a tank then it is no longer viable for the same reason. You are marked for death throughout your travel due to the way the GVbar tracks your vehicle.
Also, when radar goes down at a base...no matter - the GVDarBar still tracks the GV's - it doesn't with enemy aircraft - again, another unfair advantage to the GV'er.
I think if these issues were addressed then it would be more acceptable by the diehard GV'ers because you've essentially killed off much of what they loved to do. There are a great number of those players extremely frustrated with the current situation...some have already cancelled their accounts and I fear more are to follow the longer this continues which is not good for any of us. Sitting and waiting / thinking "they'll get used to it" I don't believe is the right answer.
I'd respectfully request that there is a compromise to the implementation of the GVDarBar if you truly want it to stay. Here is what I propose:
1) Have the bar showing in a sector that has no radar simply showing that there is a vehicle somewhere in that sector - no different that an aircraft transiting that sector.
2) For any sector where there is radar / base and a GV is inside that radar - make the GVDarBar not so specific / a much wider range.
3) If the GV is inside of a sector where there is a base / radar but it is outside of the base radar ring then a generic GV dar bar is shown (similar to #1 above)
4) if the GV is inside the radar ring of a base but the radar gets knocked out then the GVDarBar turns into a generic bar the same as #1.
I believe this would provide a balance between what you envisioned and what the players are upset about and maybe meeting in the middle.
Cheers,
Elec1
Post by: Copprhed on December 06, 2017, 03:33:11 PM
Word to the wise, Zoney, don't get so low that you're in range of my T34's main gun.I hate you main gunners....... :x :bhead
Post by: molybdenum on December 06, 2017, 05:41:37 PM
For the exact same reason there are Sector Counts.
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
HiTech
Okay, let's say someone notices an enemy GV darbar in a sector. That discovery may or may not be called out on country, but certainly at least one adversary knows about it, and probably many do. What does he/they do? Up GVs and try to find the enemy GV to have a fight, or up an A20 or something similar to kill the intruder? 9x out of 10, with the exception of vbases and ports without CVs located close by, it'll be the bomb**** that ups.
The initial GV has to hide to save its life.
Best case scenario for the GV? The bomb****(s) can't find him and eventually give up and the GV can continue on with his original plan, with the involved players' limited game time having been wasted.
Worst case scenario for the GV? The bomb**** finds and kills him with ease.
In neither case did the GV dar instigate a fight. Quite the contrary: because GVs need to hide from bomb****s, the GV dar in effect prevented a fight that otherwise might have happened somewhere else.
Post by: horble on December 06, 2017, 05:49:49 PM
You could also get a few guys together and bring some AA along instead of trying to stealthily win the war all alone.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 06, 2017, 06:15:35 PM
A plane attacking a vehicle is not combat?
You could also get a few guys together and bring some AA along instead of trying to stealthily win the war all alone.
Even better to bring fighter cover. :aok
Post by: bustr on December 06, 2017, 06:49:16 PM
The anti-GVDAR arguments are from a perspective of using a tank in this game from the same lone individualistic perspective players play the rest of the game. It's no different than what motivates players who fly fighters or bombers or man the guns on ships. Individual achievement without the help of others defined by kills as personal worth. With the Klingon Cloaking Trees, commander mode skeet shooting, and shortened Icon\invisible Icon, Gvers as "lone players" hold a gamey parity to battlefield killing as individual fighter and bomber players. Sneaking around becomes a means to an end, not a valiant effort to turn the tide of some fantasy war.
In AH2 a grand argument was fought in the forums over how unfair airplanes were to the GV game and how useless it was to up GV's. I can attest to that by being able to constantly land 3-5 kills with an IL2 in AH2. Then Hitech changed the Icon range and introduced the commander mode. A shorter Icon range made it harder to setup perfect attack runs on wirbels while setting you up for perfect skeet shot solutions for tank commanders. Many planes fell to wirbles in the beginning while trying to find the GV making the town flash. We learned caution, and at the same time GV's had more of an impact on the AH2 battlefield because the shorter Icon range acted a bit in the form of cloaking. Gvers were more upset about planes than the horrible AH2 spawn camps.....go figure.
So with AH3, GVers get full Klingon Cloaking because of the new Graphics engine combined with shorter range Icons, commander skeet mode, and they will be dmnd if Hitech does anything to make it possible to find them. In that case what GVers in AH3 refuse to have changed: invisibility cloaks, enemy Loc identifier inside of safe range for airplanes, and guided main gun airplane killing. Are these compatible with what Hitech wants?
For the exact same reason there are Sector Counts.
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
HiTech
Post by: molybdenum on December 06, 2017, 07:58:34 PM
A plane attacking a vehicle is not combat?
You could also get a few guys together and bring some AA along instead of trying to stealthily win the war all alone.
1) No, it isn't. Unless the GV is a wirble or osti, it's either hide-and-seek or execution.
2) With the declining #s in AH3 (and concurrent declining coordination between players) it's hard to get help in any endeavor you choose to undertake. Most people are doing their own thing.
Post by: Dundee on December 06, 2017, 08:04:27 PM
See Rule #4
I guess the Braille system is a no go...........
Post by: molybdenum on December 06, 2017, 08:04:46 PM
Even better to bring fighter cover. :aok
Devil, I totally agree. But it simply doesn't often happen. Believe me, I've annoyed teammates on country on this issue dozens of times asking for cover as I try to deack a town; or to deack the town themselves so I could up buffs to white flag it. Only rarely did I get a response. People are busily doing their own thing. Player numbers are such that, unless you are in a large squad (also rare), you usually have to go it solo.
Post by: horble on December 06, 2017, 08:28:34 PM
1) No, it isn't. Unless the GV is a wirble or osti, it's either hide-and-seek or execution.
2) With the declining #s in AH3 (and concurrent declining coordination between players) it's hard to get help in any endeavor you choose to undertake. Most people are doing their own thing.
I dunno, I've had 2 good fights in the last couple days that started with me upping an IL2 to fight a gv. Then red wirbles popped up, then green tanks, then red fighters, then green fighters, then red bombers. Turned into a pretty good scrap.
I know that anecdotes are not data, but I've actually enjoyed interacting with GV's in the last little bit instead of just doing my best to never be around them.
Post by: RODBUSTR on December 06, 2017, 08:38:02 PM
Post by: horble on December 06, 2017, 08:44:21 PM
Post by: Krusty on December 06, 2017, 10:37:02 PM
SO TOTALLY RUINING THE GAME! I SHOULD WIN ALWAYS!!!!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Post by: zack1234 on December 07, 2017, 02:31:23 AM
That about states the whole thing...unless You spawn with a group of tanks. life expectancy is pretty short.
Spawn with a group of tanks it will improve your life expectancy, in game not in real life i might add :)
Post by: bozon on December 07, 2017, 07:55:24 AM
Devil, I totally agree. But it simply doesn't often happen. Believe me, I've annoyed teammates on country on this issue dozens of times asking for cover as I try to deack a town; or to deack the town themselves so I could up buffs to white flag it. Only rarely did I get a response. People are busily doing their own thing. Player numbers are such that, unless you are in a large squad (also rare), you usually have to go it solo.Regarding your previous posts, if a GV player is attacking an air base he should absolutely expect to be bombed from the air. Dont like it? Well, flyboys don't like ground attacks on their base either.
A pilot player cannot just fly alone into enemy airfields and expect not to be swarmed. It is no different for a ground player.
I am reluctant to support ground players just because enemy wirbs are invisible and ridiculouly accurate. I will dogfight the enemy planes and get killed by the wirb under us. At the same time, the friendly tanks that called for support will not advance one inch and be content to sit in their ambush with engines off, while there are no enemy tanks ahead - besides the wirbles.
Dont expect fighters to CAP your boring spawn camp. I am more inclined to support an active assult on a field, but this is rarely what ground players do.
Post by: TWCAxew on December 07, 2017, 08:19:25 AM
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
Thanks for the reply :salute
DutchVII
Post by: Delirium on December 07, 2017, 09:17:51 AM
That about states the whole thing...unless You spawn with a group of tanks. life expectancy is pretty short.
The Germans realized that and made huge strides in armored warfare that allowed them to capture a lot of territory. However, they also learned that armor out in the open was meat on the table for aircraft, particularly when they used roads instead of overland travel most of the time. Until roads are utilized for travel, I feel the GV darbar is a good addition.
Post by: Lazerr on December 07, 2017, 10:10:47 AM
I think gv radar is a bit overkill. I think gv bardar.... in similar fashion to the way plane bar dar works would be sufficient.
If its about finding a fight like HT said.. its easy enough to tell where attacks are being made based on a spawn point alone. They dont need an indicator saying where they are, unless its a sector 25x25 mile similar to current air based radar.
That way if you know where the fight is, but radar isnt doing the work for you.
Post by: hitech on December 07, 2017, 10:21:52 AM
My thoughts on this are this...Vehicle sectors are bigger by time.
I think gv radar is a bit overkill. I think gv bardar.... in similar fashion to the way plane bar dar works would be sufficient.
If its about finding a fight like HT said.. its easy enough to tell where attacks are being made based on a spawn point alone. They dont need an indicator saying where they are, unless its a sector 25x25 mile similar to current air based radar.
That way if you know where the fight is, but radar isnt doing the work for you.
3 miles (vehicle sector size) at 30 mph (vehicle speed) = 6 min.
25 miles at 300 mph (slow plane speed) = 5 mins.
HiTech
Post by: 8thJinx on December 07, 2017, 11:40:24 AM
But here's the important point: that scenario created a good 20-25 minutes of focused, fun action. And if taking that base was a priority, his friends could have joined him there in planes and got us off his back real quick, which would have created even more action.
Post by: rvflyer on December 07, 2017, 12:05:38 PM
Here's why I think this needs to stay right where it's at. Last night we were trying to find a GV on the ground at 44, and even with GV sector dar, it took 3 planes over 20 minutes of really intense tree-top flying to find him. And even then, one of us had to run out of gas, bail, and search on foot to find the tree he was under. He was buried deep inside the 3-mile red square. If he's being stealthy, and doesn't want to be found, it will take a couple of planes and at least one person on the ground to find him.
But here's the important point: that scenario created a good 20-25 minutes of focused, fun action. And if taking that base was a priority, his friends could have joined him there in planes and got us off his back real quick, which would have created even more action.
Post by: bustr on December 07, 2017, 05:05:03 PM
After all, the town and field will still flash letting you know the GV has not towered or been killed yet.
Post by: Krusty on December 07, 2017, 05:44:32 PM
Making it not visible from the air defeats the purpose and doesn't help the problem: invisible GVs when they shouldn't be.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 07, 2017, 05:57:40 PM
An adjustment Hitech could make to the GVDAR that would make it less of an impact to GVs but, not have to remove it. Airplanes in flight don't see it, players in the tower\ship\guns and GVs do. It's that time scale thing in which a plane can span a sector in the time it takes a tank to drive the width of a GVDAR block that is against GVs. The players who use the map from the tower to inspect the state of the rest of their country will see the active GV's. With the new ch7 range VOX, war has traditionally had problems with poor communication and won battles due to excellent communication. Then the forum whines will be answered, didn't you bother to look at your map in the tower you dweeb. And a small amount of locating uncertainty will be given back to GV's which are relatively easy to kill once located.
After all, the town and field will still flash letting you know the GV has not towered or been killed yet.
Taking away the GV dar from aircraft defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.
Post by: Chris79 on December 07, 2017, 06:33:02 PM
Post by: 8thJinx on December 07, 2017, 06:37:57 PM
If the maps weren't set up like the hurtgen Forrest there would be no need for gv icons
This is correct. And this is a map making issue, not a game creation issue.
Post by: bustr on December 07, 2017, 07:24:03 PM
I never needed GVDAR to locate and kill tanks with my IL2. The first time I watched the dar box shift letting me know my target was heading for the town, it was obvious the crapola would hit the fan here in the forums. That GV didn't last very long. I've sat in the tower on one feild and chatted with a squadmate on the ground at another. While we talked I watched the GVDAR at the feild he was at vectoring him in to a GV that had spawned in to sneak up and get him at his spawn. That moment the box shifts is too much info when you are playing ground controller for a GV. A simple GVDAR bar that only says how many GV are within a 5mile radius of the tower would be fair. The shifting boxes and earlier shifting piedar are a bit over kill against GVs. Once the GV darbar pops up, it's not like they will warp onto the airfield and kill your plane, or an M3 able to sneak into the town waiting for a bomber to white flag it. Still the longer you wait to respond during the 5min timer for a tank to reach something or the 2min for an M3, the closer they will be to sitting in a bomber hanger or hiding in the town which seems fair. As for long cross country drives with no field around, gratis that as an NOE until they get withing 5 miles of the strat or once again a field. Most strat are close enough to an airfield the NOE GVers will have only minutes to shoot at the place if anyone is paying attention or cares. Much of the time they aren't......
Hitech on the first Christmas Eve just before AH3 went live turned on the ability for everyone in every country to see all plane dots and GV dots on the map. GVs didn't last very long but, fighters were easy to find until they turned out to be 20k+ hiding from us. And he turn off the sun for this and we still killed all the GVs because the dots showing for each GV made it criminal how easily we vectored into them. This came to mind the first time I watched a GVDAR block shift as a GV passed from one 2x2 into the next 2x2.
Post by: Randy1 on December 08, 2017, 12:26:35 PM
Post by: bustr on December 09, 2017, 03:46:10 PM
The best I can tell from responding to GVDAR is it cuts about a minute off my time finding a wirble that towers me while under the influence of it's klingon cloaking trees. Other than that, the two mile block of space it's in I could always determine that by referencing the spawn to it's sound or lack of sound. And it appears to work quite well for feeding defending tanks to a hidden individual who racks up some easy kills because the defenders follow the dar block rather than caution. I'm dumb founded watching this repeat itself constantly now. The only serious difference from not having GVDAR is no more sneaking fields on the dead side of the map unless people really don't want to bother with checking out that dar block.
So the complaints boil down to: Hitech give us back our "total invisibility" or we will accuse you publicly of stupidly killing your game and stop just short of saying we will cancel our subscriptions as an implied threat.
Personally I still think the GVDAR bar should only show that a GV is somewhere within a 5 mile or slightly less radius of the field and get rid of the moving block that follows the GV. Just make it a bardar for GVs in the vicinity. Hitech can even place a second line circle around a field as a range gauge to help players understand what a 5mile or so radius looks like when they up to search. It's no different than the mental image a competent IL2, HurriD,Ju87,Jabo pilot used to slaughter GV's without GVDAR. And Hitech still gets his function that brings players together for combat and not hiding from combat. Otherwise, I suspect with all the insults, you are stuck with GVDAR as it is now.
Post by: waystin2 on December 09, 2017, 04:06:43 PM
Post by: lyric1 on December 09, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
I.E. to be able to find a fight.
HiTech
On the fence about the ground radar. My experience at least defending your own country strats is the moment you spawn to drive to the strat to hunt the enemy,2 things happen they all tower out or all start running from the strat.
Reason being the M4/75 is the most efficient method of killing strats.
Also the least survivable tank in the game. So the logic of the M4 driver is to bail or run because in these instances the ground radar feature is tool to avoid fighting.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 09, 2017, 07:37:09 PM
So the logic of the M4 driver is to bail or run because in these instances the ground radar feature is tool to avoid fighting.
The tool facilitates finding hidden or sneaking GV's. It's existence prompting GV drivers into new ways of cowardice is not a problem with the tool, but the players it was created to find.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 09, 2017, 07:45:29 PM
Accusing Hitech of trying to kill his own game, along with the indirect questioning of his business acumen with that accusation, is taking an "insulting swipe" at him in his own house while using it as a veiled threat to try and force him to do what you want him to do in your "opinion". Kind of a childish posture.
The best I can tell from responding to GVDAR is it cuts about a minute off my time finding a wirble that towers me while under the influence of it's klingon cloaking trees. Other than that, the two mile block of space it's in I could always determine that by referencing the spawn to it's sound or lack of sound. And it appears to work quite well for feeding defending tanks to a hidden individual who racks up some easy kills because the defenders follow the dar block rather than caution. I'm dumb founded watching this repeat itself constantly now. The only serious difference from not having GVDAR is no more sneaking fields on the dead side of the map unless people really don't want to bother with checking out that dar block.
So the complaints boil down to: Hitech give us back our "total invisibility" or we will accuse you publicly of stupidly killing your game and stop just short of saying we will cancel our subscriptions as an implied threat.
Personally I still think the GVDAR bar should only show that a GV is somewhere within a 5 mile or slightly less radius of the field and get rid of the moving block that follows the GV. Just make it a bardar for GVs in the vicinity. Hitech can even place a second line circle around a field as a range gauge to help players understand what a 5mile or so radius looks like when they up to search. It's no different than the mental image a competent IL2, HurriD,Ju87,Jabo pilot used to slaughter GV's without GVDAR. And Hitech still gets his function that brings players together for combat and not hiding from combat. Otherwise, I suspect with all the insults, you are stuck with GVDAR as it is now.
Not all hiding is avoiding combat, if your objective is to white flag a town with an M4, and A20's are overhead searching for you, what would you do? Hide. A gv hiding to avoid bombs is not different than an NOE avoiding Radar.
The current version of the GVdar is livable and much better than the first iteration, but it does nothing for me or my ability to find gv's in an aircraft or another gv. While there have been a few tasteless comments about the GVdar, I think the vast majority of the comments on both sides of the issue have been thoughtful and civil. As Lyric1 pointed out it does have its drawbacks as well, there is no perfect solution.
As a side note to the issue, it would be nice if the gv's could safely tower if there is no enemy gv within their GVdar and enemy aircraft are more that 6K away.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 09, 2017, 07:50:04 PM
The tool facilitates finding hidden or sneaking GV's. It's existence prompting GV drivers into new ways of cowardice is not a problem with the tool, but the players it was created to find.
uhhh Devil, this is a cartoon game, how can you be a coward in a cartoon game. Try to be more rational in your responses. :cool:
Post by: Devil 505 on December 09, 2017, 08:06:04 PM
uhhh Devil, this is a cartoon game, how can you be a coward in a cartoon game. Try to be more rational in your responses. :cool:
If a player decides to tower out rather than risk getting found by an enemy, that may be the most cowardly thing a player could do in a combat game.
Post by: RODBUSTR on December 09, 2017, 10:00:28 PM
Post by: Copprhed on December 10, 2017, 03:25:16 AM
Post by: molybdenum on December 10, 2017, 09:18:55 AM
I guess I'll never get it why this new GV dar was considered necessary. Anyone who can read activity on a map (town flash, base flash, shore battery flash, or all three) could tell about where a GV had to be without it. If there was a find-the-fight benefit it seems to me to have been minimal: and at what price? A significant number of players dislike it passionately and the strategy and stealth aspect of the game have been greatly reduced.
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all. It was one of the things I liked doing most in AH--there was such a drama aspect of poking around and blowing the crap out of a town, hoping the presence of GVs was unsuspected, watching cons and uppers and wondering if they'd figured it out and were on their way to kill you, racing around trying to find and kill the last few buildings to make the town ready while the m3 you'd called for was sweating bullets at the flag...it was intense. And, IF successful (yes, often without a fight, though the most fun was had when the bad guys figured it out at the last moment and the issue was in doubt), a fight almost always happened moments later, either at the base you'd just taken as the enemy tried to deack and take it back, or at the next base over as you tried to spawn out of your new toehold in enemy territory to a new target before the bad guys could react.
That's lost now. So is the 20 mile m3 drive to a base without a spawn and hoping for a white flag/deack while the enemy, even if aware there is peril, is searching for a goon while you chuckle, communicate the situation on the ground with teammates, and wait. It was such a triumph for all involved if you succeeded; and such a triumph for the enemy if he was clever enough to suspect and find you after your long drive...!
Anyway, enough reminiscing. But I did want the stealth disparagers to have a better sense of why the GV dar spoils the game for many of us.
Post by: waystin2 on December 10, 2017, 10:04:16 AM
It seems to have limited efficacy in narrowing down where a GV might be hiding, and far too much efficacy in locating a GV on the move. This maximizes the need to hide rather than fight if a bomb**** is present, and unless you like searching for a well-hidden enemy like 8thjinx does, it simply takes players away from the potential of a fun fight and into (what would be to me) a tedious search.Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented. Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them. Now they they are more easily found. The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.
I guess I'll never get it why this new GV dar was considered necessary. Anyone who can read activity on a map (town flash, base flash, shore battery flash, or all three) could tell about where a GV had to be without it. If there was a find-the-fight benefit it seems to me to have been minimal: and at what price? A significant number of players dislike it passionately and the strategy and stealth aspect of the game have been greatly reduced.
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all. It was one of the things I liked doing most in AH--there was such a drama aspect of poking around and blowing the crap out of a town, hoping the presence of GVs was unsuspected, watching cons and uppers and wondering if they'd figured it out and were on their way to kill you, racing around trying to find and kill the last few buildings to make the town ready while the m3 you'd called for was sweating bullets at the flag...it was intense. And, IF successful (yes, often without a fight, though the most fun was had when the bad guys figured it out at the last moment and the issue was in doubt), a fight almost always happened moments later, either at the base you'd just taken as the enemy tried to deack and take it back, or at the next base over as you tried to spawn out of your new toehold in enemy territory to a new target before the bad guys could react.
That's lost now. So is the 20 mile m3 drive to a base without a spawn and hoping for a white flag/deack while the enemy, even if aware there is peril, is searching for a goon while you chuckle, communicate the situation on the ground with teammates, and wait. It was such a triumph for all involved if you succeeded; and such a triumph for the enemy if he was clever enough to suspect and find you after your long drive...!
Anyway, enough reminiscing. But I did want the stealth disparagers to have a better sense of why the GV dar spoils the game for many of us.
Post by: 8thJinx on December 10, 2017, 10:50:04 AM
Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented. Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them. Now they they are more easily found. The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.
Something should also be done about flying off the edge of the map, like instant death or something.
Post by: Oldman731 on December 10, 2017, 12:12:31 PM
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them, which isn't the same at all.
...er....sort of sounds like it, to me...
- oldman
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 10, 2017, 12:18:47 PM
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them
Agreed. GVs I assume to some here are expected when a heavy or cannon laden plane flies over to drive to an open field, shoot at a 300mph plane with a single MG and wait for the 500lb gift or losing its tracks to cannon fire. GVs are only there to feed the ground attack flyers kills, not take bases but drive 15 minutes to feed these boys a fast kill. Maybe taking a town down isn't 'combat' to them, but bases are rarely undefended and it serves the 'GAME' objective of winning the warz. Last night I burned up a half hour trying to just reach a town in an M4 with a b25 and 2 p38s trying to kill me. I would go between tree clumps when acft were not directly overhead and managed 3k of ground travel in this cat and mouse fashion finally reaching just within sight of buildings after many strafing and bombing attempts. I don't think the GV dar helped the hunters much since the dar block covered the entire town dot which of course was flashing. It took 4 players, 3 acft and 1 tank that did take out my tank just before I could dump 60 rockets on the town. To the players screeching the game must be constant combat and shooting or you're a bunch of cartoon cowards the 30 minutes was a waste of time. To me the objective I failed, but had I prevailed would have taken the town down for a take. That's what the game is about for me, I had fun trying, the 4 enemy had the fun and challenge of stopping me. Believe me, I will repeat this same thing over and over to take the bases. <salute> to woody002 in his b25 and dwwaves in his tank for their persistence, it saved their base which was their objective.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 10, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Quote
Quote from: molybdenum on Today at 10:18:55 AM
Some of you treat "stealth" like a bad word, as if the people who hide GVs are trying to avoid a fight. They're not. They're trying to accomplish an objective (white flag a town mostly) before someone ups and kills them
Stealth isnt gone. I was hiding in a probable route to town when the Bish horde showed up. Most of my "kills" were bish flying into the ground I did get another along the route, but the M3 got by me and we lost the base. The hunt was on!
An F6 spotted me and started circling to mark me and I started running. Moving from tree group to tree group when the F6 wasnt looking. I finally got out from under him. Still dodgin vehicles I got to a good place to hide out. While the planes couldn't reup.... due to the Bish horde prime operating handbook (scorched earth policy sub section "b") all I had to deal with were GVs. With the hiding and moving they soon gave up and I landed 12 kills.
I suck in GVs and I did ok and had some fun, and believe it or not landed the kills. This change really doesn't hurt GVin, it just changes how we play in GVs. Even the stealth runs to strats can still happen, it just is going to take a bit of skill in your hiding and moving about. GVs have unlimited fuel, planes dont.
Give it a couple months to learn the new tricks.
Post by: molybdenum on December 10, 2017, 05:00:27 PM
Everything you just described is exactly why it was implemented. Players going to the extreme to avoid other players then considering it a triumph of some sort that they pulled one over by sneaking past the unsuspecting enemy and captured an objective or blew up a target without anyone ever knowing or finding them. Now they they are more easily found. The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over.
HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.
The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?
In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.
And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?
Post by: waystin2 on December 10, 2017, 05:29:51 PM
HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.This hiding has always occurred to avoid other players in the effort to capture fields unopposed. It was never because someone would up to try to bomb, shoot or engage them. The addition of thicker foilage had made it nearly impossible to spot GV's. This has been corrected. It has always been about avoidance. Your armchair general tactics on country tended to follow the same strategies.
The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?
In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.
And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?
Post by: bustr on December 10, 2017, 05:53:33 PM
This is a very poor question since the players with bombs are having fun and your gist is trying to make Hitech think you have a monolithic consensus of all player types supporting you. I thought you were quitting some time back because Hitech was allowing me to make strats too hard for you to have fun bombing anyway.
The statement and prime reason none of the GVers decrying Hitech's decision will publicly make but, describe it in vivid detail to support their anger is simple. They are arguing that Hitech has to keep them invisible so they can as a single "tank fighter pilot" fantasy dictate the outcomes of combat as a solo player at any field they want to sneak around against much larger numbers. When tanks and wirbles show up in numbers, the GVDAR is meaningless and GV battles take place. Solo players have ever been bombed then end up in these forums crying at Hitech to do something to the guys with bombs so they can be effectively invisible.
All the arguments against GVDAR are by solo tankers demanding Hitech has to keep them invisible.
Post by: Mano on December 10, 2017, 06:21:54 PM
The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?
This is a very poor question since the players with bombs are having fun and your gist is trying to make Hitech think you have a monolithic consensus of all player types supporting you. I thought you were quitting some time back because Hitech was allowing me to make strats too hard for you to have fun bombing anyway.
The statement and prime reason none of the GVers decrying Hitech's decision will publicly make but, describe it in vivid detail to support their anger is simple. They are arguing that Hitech has to keep them invisible so they can as a single "tank fighter pilot" fantasy dictate the outcomes of combat as a solo player at any field they want to sneak around against much larger numbers. When tanks and wirbles show up in numbers, the GVDAR is meaningless and GV battles take place. Solo players have ever been bombed then end up in these forums crying at Hitech to do something to the guys with bombs so they can be effectively invisible.
All the arguments against GVDAR are by solo tankers demanding Hitech has to keep them invisible.
Translation:Six simple words, I like to bomb ground vehicles
:D
Post by: The Fugitive on December 10, 2017, 06:23:36 PM
HT says he implemented the GV dar in order to help players find a fight, not to spike a paying customer's fun because he chose to fly/drive in a manner that was not immediately and directly leading to a fight, or in a manner that you do not personally approve of.
The big picture question is: does the GV dar add to the collective fun of the AH community, or detract from it?
In my view it definitely detracts from the fun--that's why I unsubscribed--because the minimal gains in finding enemy GVs are greatly outweighed by fewer options GVers now have to use their vehicles in an effective, base-taking manner. I also believe that a successful sneak of a base adds to the ability of players to find a fight (because a base take galvanizes teammates and outrages opponents: there is always a reaction afterwards). A successful base take (in whatever manner) fires up both friend and foe and adds to dynamic game play on both sides involved.
And finally, I emphatically disagree with you when you say "The days of avoiding combat on the ground are over." Haven't you been reading what other people have been posting on this thread? Hiding GVs has become the new normal. Before, you progressed toward your target and hoped an a20 didn't up to kill you before you got there. Now, you know they know you're coming and hide as a matter of course. How does that help people find a fight?
You have to look at from a business stand point. HTC loses you but gains 5 players who join because they can find a fight better, they win.
On top of that, you are complaining because you cant play the same way you have right along..... welcome to my world!. The game has changed and evolved in the years it has been here. Either you adapt..... and many will, or you leave. Good luck to you, but those of us who stay may see a better game play evolve out of this change.
Post by: serun on December 10, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
Quote
Something should also be done about flying off the edge of the map, like instant death or something.
AMEN!! :aok
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 10, 2017, 06:54:27 PM
This change really doesn't hurt GVin, it just changes how we play in GVs.Very true. The GV dar square injects more careful driving that just blundering into a 1 or 2 gv ambush. The square instead of the pie wedge doesn't give the same level of ease in finding your GV. A certain amount of change in tactics isn't hard to handle to use the dar to an advantage in both offense and defense. It certainly helps in town or base assaults to have more than one GV from different directions to make the GV dar not near as friendly to use by defenders. ie: having a dar block at multiple compass points around a town. GVs will hide from aircraft whether under trees, between buildings, under bridges as to not get sent back to the tower, same as in AH1 and AH2. That is the nature of ground combat. Any assault or ambush lives by avoiding detection until IT is ready to initiate contact.
Post by: molybdenum on December 10, 2017, 08:59:01 PM
You have to look at from a business stand point. HTC loses you but gains 5 players who join because they can find a fight better, they win.
On top of that, you are complaining because you cant play the same way you have right along..... welcome to my world!. The game has changed and evolved in the years it has been here. Either you adapt..... and many will, or you leave. Good luck to you, but those of us who stay may see a better game play evolve out of this change.
I agree with you on both of your points. Maybe my earlier "big picture question," instead of "Does the GV dar add or detract from the fun of playing AH?" should have been "Will a GV dar help retain more new customers than it drives existing ones away?" (That simplifies it a bit because presumably a customer who has been around many years is more valuable to HT than one who has just signed on and might be gone next month, but I can't think of a better way to phrase this new, improved question that doesn't get overly complicated).
As for adaptation, you're right that we players have a choice. Most players of AH seem to be over 50, and if one could give an adjective that describes that demographic, "adaptable" wouldn't be the first one to come to mind. It certainly doesn't fit me.
So many of the problems people have with AH would seemingly be solved if we had significantly higher numbers. (I wouldn't need to try to sneak a base, for example, if I knew I could have four or five people help me take it instead of having to beg on country for half an hour and maybe finally get one or two). So I get it that HT needs to try different things in order to get people--especially younger people--to play and stay. I just don't see how the GV dar can be a means to that end, and it sucks that its implementation takes a huge chunk of fun out of the game for me and the others who have also complained about it.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 10, 2017, 09:36:04 PM
I have been here since tour 21 (MDJOE and Fugitive) and back then we did a lot of base capture missions or furballed. Basically that was your choices. Eventually the furballs disappeared. YES I know you stumble on one now and then, but in the old days they would last for hours and the base capture guys would have to work around them.
The game changed, only the Bish hold on to the "horde" mentality these days tho the other teams can get one going, but back then squads had two wings because they flew with that many guys that the limits were too small and the game was all about grabbing bases faster than the other hordes to get the win.
Furballs have dried up, numbers have dropped, crater is no longer the tank map that it was, times change and we must adapt to what the "new" game has become. On the surface these changes may suck, but if it brings in more players that stay longer it could take the game back to new heights.
Post by: Oldman731 on December 10, 2017, 09:39:28 PM
As for adaptation, you're right that we players have a choice. Most players of AH seem to be over 50, and if one could give an adjective that describes that demographic, "adaptable" wouldn't be the first one to come to mind. It certainly doesn't fit me.
Ah. So you're a fellow adult. Good to know, I don't have to worry about tenderness.
As others have said, there is undoubtedly a new way to get around the new DAR settings. If you don't want to experiment to find it, fine, go stomp off like someone who is not an adult. Otherwise, why don't you use your wisdom and experience to figure out the new system?
- oldman
Post by: 8thJinx on December 10, 2017, 09:52:37 PM
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 10, 2017, 10:00:35 PM
Personally I've only seen a few players complain about it, a very small percentage of players really.
I have been here since tour 21 (MDJOE and Fugitive) and back then we did a lot of base capture missions or furballed. Basically that was your choices. Eventually the furballs disappeared. YES I know you stumble on one now and then, but in the old days they would last for hours and the base capture guys would have to work around them.
The game changed, only the Bish hold on to the "horde" mentality these days tho the other teams can get one going, but back then squads had two wings because they flew with that many guys that the limits were too small and the game was all about grabbing bases faster than the other hordes to get the win.
Furballs have dried up, numbers have dropped, crater is no longer the tank map that it was, times change and we must adapt to what the "new" game has become. On the surface these changes may suck, but if it brings in more players that stay longer it could take the game back to new heights.
Really??? I don't know any gv'er in this game that likes the change, so I don't know where you got that absurd idea. :headscratch:
Post by: The Fugitive on December 10, 2017, 10:02:25 PM
Really??? I don't know any gv'er in this game that likes the change, so I don't know where you got that absurd idea. :headscratch:
Im sorry are we talking about GVers that want to fight, or those that only want to hide and spawn camp or grab bases unseen?
Post by: Ciaphas on December 10, 2017, 11:59:11 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: lyric1 on December 11, 2017, 01:16:05 AM
Spawn camp?
Ended with AHII.
Post by: Dace on December 11, 2017, 09:44:46 AM
Ended with AHII.
Maybe on a large scale, but I still get killed by campers pretty regularly.
Post by: wil3ur on December 11, 2017, 10:02:13 AM
Don't criticize what you can't understand,
Your hordes and your whiners are beyond your command,
Your old game is rapidly ageing!
Go play a new one if you can't lend a hand,
For the game it is a changing!
:bolt:
Post by: molybdenum on December 11, 2017, 07:20:41 PM
Ah. So you're a fellow adult. Good to know, I don't have to worry about tenderness.
As others have said, there is undoubtedly a new way to get around the new DAR settings. If you don't want to experiment to find it, fine, go stomp off like someone who is not an adult. Otherwise, why don't you use your wisdom and experience to figure out the new system?
- oldman
I'm sorry if my posts have given the impression that I'm pouting or being childish or whatever. It isn't that, I don't think. It really boils down to a very simple question for me: is AH3 worth my time and $ now that the things I most enjoyed doing are no longer doable? (Not just being a sneaky GV, or recruiting sneaky GVs; I've always been primarily a bomber pilot and AH3 is less friendly to buffs than AH2).
I think I can see a "new way to get around the new DAR settings" (as you put it) but it would require coordination and teammates. It was hard enough to find willing and available people to help me try to take a base before the change. Now it would be even harder. It would very likely be far more frustrating than fun.
My subscription doesn't time out until the beginning of next year. I'll probably pop back in in the last few days and experiment a little, but I don't have much hope. Ah, well....
Post by: Oldman731 on December 11, 2017, 09:17:43 PM
I'm sorry if my posts have given the impression that I'm pouting or being childish or whatever.
And I regret that I over-reacted. Sorry. Hey, figuring out new things is supposed to be fun!
- oldman
Post by: 8thJinx on December 11, 2017, 10:57:50 PM
Post by: Max on December 12, 2017, 07:33:05 AM
Oh tankers and bombers throughout the land,
Don't criticize what you can't understand,
Your hordes and your whiners are beyond your command,
Your old game is rapidly ageing!
Go play a new one if you can't lend a hand,
For the game it is a changing!
:bolt:
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Post by: rvflyer on December 12, 2017, 02:45:59 PM
The game changed, only the Bish hold on to the "horde" mentality these days tho the other teams can get one going, but back then squads had two wings because they flew with that many guys that the limits were too small and the game was all about grabbing bases faster than the other hordes to get the win.
Post by: Wiley on December 12, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
If you take the Icon ID away from people they would not have a clue which chess piece they are playing for. :headscratch: :old:
Actually, I'd take that Pepsi challenge with Bish and Nits. A Bish horde attempt actually brings troops before the base is ready for capture. A Nit one doesn't. Rooks would be harder to identify. :old:
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on December 13, 2017, 03:27:39 AM
Vehicle sectors are bigger by time.
3 miles (vehicle sector size) at 30 mph (vehicle speed) = 6 min.
25 miles at 300 mph (slow plane speed) = 5 mins.
HiTech
Yes this is true.....but from the dar circle to the center is only 12 miles..........12 miles at 300 mph (slow plane speed) = 2 1/2 min. kind of way our of per-portion
Post by: thrila on December 13, 2017, 09:27:34 AM
Post by: Wiley on December 13, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
Yes this is true.....but from the dar circle to the center is only 12 miles..........12 miles at 300 mph (slow plane speed) = 2 1/2 min. kind of way our of per-portion
You're right, the squares for the vehicles should be smaller to be the same as the aircraft indicator. Great suggestion Dundee!
Wiley.
Post by: Lazerr on December 13, 2017, 10:14:26 AM
Post by: waystin2 on December 13, 2017, 10:54:12 AM
I dont play much, but usually if I was going to hit a base with a GV, I would kill the ord there. :DStop making sense Sir! :bhead
Post by: bustr on December 13, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Years ago I remember we had problems with too many hot bomber pilots not waiting for the fighters, GVs, and troops. They wiped out fields and towns before we all got into position out of sync. Now bombers do show up and I'm never sure if they hit anything other than teasing the defenders with the thought of an easy kill. But, back then many of the bomber guys seemed to have the terrains scoped out so they could line up on the target knowing from 10 miles out what path corrections to make to lazer guide bombs onto everything in one pass. Today they seem to always be a bit off and need multiple passes to keep missing targets. Base captures today always seem to be disjointed and out of sync with everyone accomplishing very little yelling at everyone else accomplishing very little what they should be accomplishing. AH3 has turned very individualistic to the point of being it's own worst enemy with players not very skilled in natural team work anymore. Even hoards are disjointed and just the numbers not the players control the combat zone. It's like a herd of Leroy Jenkins out there we call countries....... :O
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 13, 2017, 03:52:49 PM
Our game today is played like a group of High Schoolers deciding Saturday morning they will drive up into the mountains to stay overnight at a lake at 8,000ft. So they hop in their cars wearing shorts and T-shirts with odds and ends of camping equipment in their trunks. Along the way some have to stop to pickup things and tell everyone else they will catch up. A few hours later they are strung out by miles between each car heading for the lake. The first groups get there in the middle of the day while the sun is up and start playing in the water. The last groups show up about sundown as the air temp drops 10-15 degrees. No one collected fire wood or put up tents or even checked to see what they had in their trunks. And for some reason, they all forgot to bring a flash light or matches. And their tents haven't been out of the bag since the year before when they stuffed them in the bags in a hurry to get home from a rain storm at the same lake. But,,,,,,,,,,, they have beer, chips, Twinkies, and condoms.
Years ago I remember we had problems with too many hot bomber pilots not waiting for the fighters, GVs, and troops. They wiped out fields and towns before we all got into position out of sync. Now bombers do show up and I'm never sure if they hit anything other than teasing the defenders with the thought of an easy kill. But, back then many of the bomber guys seemed to have the terrains scoped out so they could line up on the target knowing from 10 miles out what path corrections to make to lazer guide bombs onto everything in one pass. Today they seem to always be a bit off and need multiple passes to keep missing targets. Base captures today always seem to be disjointed and out of sync with everyone accomplishing very little yelling at everyone else accomplishing very little what they should be accomplishing. AH3 has turned very individualistic to the point of being it's own worst enemy with players not very skilled in natural team work anymore. Even hoards are disjointed and just the numbers not the players control the combat zone. It's like a herd of Leroy Jenkins out there we call countries....... :O
Yep, radio question in too many attacks seems to be ... anybody bring troops ? ..... and crickets
Post by: molybdenum on December 13, 2017, 06:16:26 PM
I dont play much, but usually if I was going to hit a base with a GV, I would kill the ord there. :D
With the ammo strat tougher and (usually) harder to get to than before, ord bunker downtime is typically 30 minutes. I've mentioned before that it's hard to get a critical mass of people to each play a part in a base take, so you're right that "I" (as opposed to a teammate who probably won't be available) ought to hit ords before I roll a GV to a base.
Given the likely 30min downtime on the ord bunkers and the typical 7-10min drive to target, are you suggesting then that after I kill the ords at a base I should bail to up my GV? Is that kind of gameplay you encourage?
Post by: thndregg on December 13, 2017, 08:24:22 PM
Yep, radio question in too many attacks seems to be ... anybody bring troops ? ..... and crickets
Yep. There are definitely fewer folks that go about a mission in a logical, methodical, and efficient way. There are also definitely fewer folks who don't understand the effects of certain actions...
(porking strats associated with given mission goals -
i.e. ord to prevent CV being sunk, or GV's from being bombed, or cap an airfield to suppress defenders in a base take, or fly a goon in the event that an M3 with troops is not an option)
.. And then they wonder why it didn't work.
It takes patience (oh my.. :rolleyes:), coordination, and clear communication. All of which are very lacking, presently.
Post by: Lazerr on December 14, 2017, 12:56:11 AM
With the ammo strat tougher and (usually) harder to get to than before, ord bunker downtime is typically 30 minutes. I've mentioned before that it's hard to get a critical mass of people to each play a part in a base take, so you're right that "I" (as opposed to a teammate who probably won't be available) ought to hit ords before I roll a GV to a base.
Given the likely 30min downtime on the ord bunkers and the typical 7-10min drive to target, are you suggesting then that after I kill the ords at a base I should bail to up my GV? Is that kind of gameplay you encourage?
Nope.. just giving the same response ive gotten on m3 resup for years now..
Funny how that works... :D
Post by: scott66 on December 16, 2017, 08:51:49 PM
Stealth isnt gone. I was hiding in a probable route to town when the Bish horde showed up. Most of my "kills" were bish flying into the ground I did get another along the route, but the M3 got by me and we lost the base. The hunt was on!I've seen that landing of kills!! It was magnificent!!!! Lol I only landed 3 in my panzer :bhead thank you for pointing out how few my landing's were that night :neener: it was nice to see a well known flyer in a GV I thought for a second I was in an alternate dimension
An F6 spotted me and started circling to mark me and I started running. Moving from tree group to tree group when the F6 wasnt looking. I finally got out from under him. Still dodgin vehicles I got to a good place to hide out. While the planes couldn't reup.... due to the Bish horde prime operating handbook (scorched earth policy sub section "b") all I had to deal with were GVs. With the hiding and moving they soon gave up and I landed 12 kills.
I suck in GVs and I did ok and had some fun, and believe it or not landed the kills. This change really doesn't hurt GVin, it just changes how we play in GVs. Even the stealth runs to strats can still happen, it just is going to take a bit of skill in your hiding and moving about. GVs have unlimited fuel, planes dont.
Give it a couple months to learn the new tricks.
Post by: Electroman on December 18, 2017, 01:37:16 AM
But the offside to it is now my GV ranking is much higher because fewer want to do it...and I'm going to continue to bomb**** like everyone else does with the GV Laser Dar so my attack rating will come up.
Guess there is a bonus in there somewhere...but...it still sucks.
Post by: JimmyC on December 18, 2017, 12:27:21 PM
I never see it now..not sure why..its like been turned off..i have to ask people of there is any dar.
Then just do regular sweeps to find gvs..
Not sure if i miss it or not
Post by: waystin2 on December 18, 2017, 01:46:57 PM
Post by: scott66 on December 18, 2017, 02:09:13 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 18, 2017, 02:20:29 PM
The difference being now you know for sure there is GV hiding or parked flashing the base
That in itself makes it a worthwhile tool.
Post by: bustr on December 18, 2017, 02:36:57 PM
Post by: Electroman on December 18, 2017, 02:53:45 PM
Can we have the 200ft minimum back for NOE if they get GVDAR removed? It's only fair so everyone can become invisible and hide from each other....... And can we get air to air resupply bombs so someone can drop instant-rearm on our plane while we loiter a few miles out from a fight......
Oh Bustr...Please...
Tell you what...when they figure out how to quit bases from flashing by certain players (i.e. - Cybro) that drives a plane off field and buries it in a set of trees which is impossible to be found unless you go review film...and even then takes some time...or stop bases from flashing when they are buried in the corner of a hangar, etc...then maybe the rest of us will discuss the true merits of being "fair". You can't see the icon of the plane because it's buried beneath the ground making it near impossible to find.
The GVDar shifted the game too far to one side. You may as well put bright neon lights on vehicles in the trees or open field now because that is essentially what it has done. It's too much. Like I said - I'm ok with a generic sector bar...or a bar with a larger radius but the 2 mile square is too much.
Post by: Electroman on December 18, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
Gvdarbar does not work for me..
I never see it now..not sure why..its like been turned off..i have to ask people of there is any dar.
Then just do regular sweeps to find gvs..
Not sure if i miss it or not
Jimmy - It's probably because you don't have it enabled by default. You need to right click the clipboard map and there is an option to enable it from the popup menu (can't remember the exact wording on the popup menu though...)
Post by: Wiley on December 18, 2017, 02:59:21 PM
Like I said - I'm ok with a generic sector bar...or a bar with a larger radius but the 2 mile square is too much.
Well, you should be happy then.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390475.msg5190716.html#msg5190716 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390475.msg5190716.html#msg5190716)
But lemme guess, still not big enough, right?
Wiley.
Post by: Electroman on December 18, 2017, 03:04:20 PM
Well, you should be happy then.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390475.msg5190716.html#msg5190716 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390475.msg5190716.html#msg5190716)
But lemme guess, still not big enough, right?
Wiley.
There is a difference...if you are comparing by time / vehicle sector size and using that as your base then that is an unfair calculation. Vehicle to Vehicle - yes that would be fair (although some vehicles travel slightly faster than others...but still livable). It's the unfairness of the instant bomtards zeroing in on the laser guided vehicle dar.
So like I said...it sucks...but I'll enjoy bomtarding y'all more often now since you've enabled us :D
Post by: Wiley on December 18, 2017, 03:16:47 PM
There is a difference...if you are comparing by time / vehicle sector size and using that as your base then that is an unfair calculation. Vehicle to Vehicle - yes that would be fair (although some vehicles travel slightly faster than others...but still livable). It's the unfairness of the instant bomtards zeroing in on the laser guided vehicle dar.
So like I said...it sucks...but I'll enjoy bomtarding y'all more often now since you've enabled us :D
My point was it's 3x3 not 2x2 and has been for a while, not about the reason why. But as I said, I'm sure it's still not big enough.
Wiley.
Post by: waystin2 on December 18, 2017, 03:23:14 PM
That in itself makes it a worthwhile tool.I concur. I will search, but not for 15-20 minutes. If you want to hide, then you are better in an offline environment. You will feel more successful there (and safer).
Post by: scott66 on December 18, 2017, 05:04:34 PM
That in itself makes it a worthwhile tool.I'm going to be honest here am going to have to disagree with the few of my fellow countrymen... As a gver and as a part time bombard I like the gv dar.. when I'm in tank I don't really use the dar it only tells me there is one or multiple enemy gvs here I use sounds to locate them... As someone who hates a flashing base for no apparent reason it helps me figure out if i play hide and seek with bombs or if I have a goon or you know you parked in a plane nearby it helps me decide what aircraft or gv to up
Post by: JimmyC on December 18, 2017, 05:25:21 PM
Jimmy - It's probably because you don't have it enabled by default. You need to right click the clipboard map and there is an option to enable it from the popup menu (can't remember the exact wording on the popup menu though...)
Thank you.. sorted.. silly me!
Post by: bustr on December 18, 2017, 05:53:19 PM
I've never needed GVDAR to find GVs, nor anyone I know in the game who bombs them. Once defenders put it out on country GVs are at a field, bombs are minutes away. POTW calls Waystin, Ra, and slider in first thing to up tanks and I bring an IL2. GVs don't last very long with us after 15 years of this. It is a waste of time for Gvers to try and check out every flashing field or shore battery just to not find an enemy tank to drive out and shoot at, since the flashing often is a plane passing in that sector.
GVDAR is a Catch22, with it you spawn and know you will have to fight, not what kind of a fight. Without it, GVers to a proven degree avoid combat(hide) and contact as much as possible all night long. Does Hitech owe it to the customers looking to fight GV's with a GV less than to customers who want to hide from fighting anyone if they can manage it all night? We used to have 200ft as the NOE minimum and much of the community hid under it and avoided each other all night long with 400 players a night in the MA. Now that minimum is at 65ft.....today they no longer run missions, instead hide above 15k and don't fight, or suddenly disappear and find another front to attack a defenseless field on....unintended consequences of trying to force people to fight each other. At least today you see DARBARs and flashing everything all over the maps. It's just getting at them and getting them to hang around to fight becomes a problem. I liked it better with 200ft minimums because breaking up an NOE base attack meant they were all below 7,000ft and available to shoot down in one tiny space. Today half the time you are lucky if the jabos who just came in at 15k to drop bombs on your field will stop popping back up to avoid fighting you for the field.
So does that mean our low numbers are because combat game players today are looking for combat games that maximizes game functions to enable them to be in a combat game while hiding from the combat all night as the preferred game play strategy? Then.....I want NOE back to 200ft and the resupply mother ships out of the mothball fleet and back in the air since the GVs have Klingon cloaking trees and instant resupply anywhere.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 18, 2017, 06:13:48 PM
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Post by: Devil 505 on December 18, 2017, 06:34:17 PM
If it’s not your thing, disable it... .
You really don't get it.
Stop looking at this as a GV guy vs. Plane guy argument. It's not.
It all comes down to not allowing players to avoid combat in a combat game. Any change that promotes more combat overall is a good change. The GV dar does just that.
If you don't like it because it hurt's YOUR play style - TOO BAD. The overall game is better with GV dar and you need to get over it.
Post by: scott66 on December 18, 2017, 06:44:48 PM
Now I really want invisibility cloaks for planes like the GVs have. And Hitech can put an invisible mother ship inside of a cloud that we can fly through and will rearm planes. Hitech built mother ships that launched alien claw fighters and they could rearm back in them during AH2. Those were made available a few times over the years by Hitech including being able to fly the claws with their laser blasters and plasma aerial mines we could leave in our wake. It's not a matter of Oh really, they exist and are not used anymore for some reason...... :crynow is there was only a way you could enable all that on your next map... Hmm... :cheers: and if you go that route please enabled Photon torpedoes
I've never needed GVDAR to find GVs, nor anyone I know in the game who bombs them. Once defenders put it out on country GVs are at a field, bombs are minutes away. POTW calls Waystin, Ra, and slider in first thing to up tanks and I bring an IL2. GVs don't last very long with us after 15 years of this. It is a waste of time for Gvers to try and check out every flashing field or shore battery just to not find an enemy tank to drive out and shoot at, since the flashing often is a plane passing in that sector.
GVDAR is a Catch22, with it you spawn and know you will have to fight, not what kind of a fight. Without it, GVers to a proven degree avoid combat(hide) and contact as much as possible all night long. Does Hitech owe it to the customers looking to fight GV's with a GV less than to customers who want to hide from fighting anyone if they can manage it all night? We used to have 200ft as the NOE minimum and much of the community hid under it and avoided each other all night long with 400 players a night in the MA. Now that minimum is at 65ft.....today they no longer run missions, instead hide above 15k and don't fight, or suddenly disappear and find another front to attack a defenseless field on....unintended consequences of trying to force people to fight each other. At least today you see DARBARs and flashing everything all over the maps. It's just getting at them and getting them to hang around to fight becomes a problem. I liked it better with 200ft minimums because breaking up an NOE base attack meant they were all below 7,000ft and available to shoot down in one tiny space. Today half the time you are lucky if the jabos who just came in at 15k to drop bombs on your field will stop popping back up to avoid fighting you for the field.
So does that mean our low numbers are because combat game players today are looking for combat games that maximizes game functions to enable them to be in a combat game while hiding from the combat all night as the preferred game play strategy? Then.....I want NOE back to 200ft and the resupply mother ships out of the mothball fleet and back in the air since the GVs have Klingon cloaking trees and instant resupply anywhere.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 18, 2017, 06:53:36 PM
You really don't get it.
Stop looking at this as a GV guy vs. Plane guy argument. It's not.
It all comes down to not allowing players to avoid combat in a combat game. Any change that promotes more combat overall is a good change. The GV dar does just that.
If you don't like it because it hurt's YOUR play style - TOO BAD. The overall game is better with GV dar and you need to get over it.
I agree with you man, just simply stating that if someone doesn’t like it, disable it. Out of sight out of mind.
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Post by: The Fugitive on December 18, 2017, 07:25:54 PM
I agree with you man, just simply stating that if someone doesn’t like it, disable it. Out of sight out of mind.
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Usually the guys that dont like the GV dar are those that it is pointing out... those that WANT to avoid combat. For them to turn it off its not going to let them hide again.
Post by: Electroman on December 19, 2017, 12:08:40 AM
You really don't get it.
Stop looking at this as a GV guy vs. Plane guy argument. It's not.
It all comes down to not allowing players to avoid combat in a combat game. Any change that promotes more combat overall is a good change. The GV dar does just that.
If you don't like it because it hurt's YOUR play style - TOO BAD. The overall game is better with GV dar and you need to get over it.
Another untrue / uneducated statement...
It is EXACTLY that! it has now given the bomb****s a higher advantage over the GV players and taking away their form of gameplay. Who are you to say that hiding in trees, stealth protecting a base from incoming sneak GV's is not a form of combat? Who are you to say that hiding in trees to avoid being bomb****ed to prevent any sort of GV advancement on a base is improving the gameplay?
Sorry...but you are no one...like the rest of us...another paying customer and one who has an opinion for what suits you versus the rest of that have opinions that suit our views. GV players (and I use that term loosely as I never considered myself a "GV'er" much in the past) have found ways to hone their craft...just like pilots in planes with ACM. This is their form of it - and it was taken away. So like I said...I'll enjoy dropping a few thousand eggs on peoples heads now because I can with much more ease now.
We'll agree to disagree.
Post by: Electroman on December 19, 2017, 12:10:41 AM
I agree with you man, just simply stating that if someone doesn’t like it, disable it. Out of sight out of mind.
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No - that adds to the lopsided advantage even further. Disabling it for yourself gives the other country even more of an advantage.
Have you played this game before? :huh
Post by: Ciaphas on December 19, 2017, 07:09:48 AM
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Post by: Ciaphas on December 19, 2017, 07:15:01 AM
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Post by: JimmyD3 on December 19, 2017, 09:35:20 AM
Post by: wil3ur on December 19, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
On subsequent Seek and Destroy missions in a GV which I never do... there was nothing done that prevented someone from being completely hidden and popping us off as we tried to find them. Add to the fact you no longer hear the gun shots, simply the explosion or the instatower, and there's no real way still to try and track the tank except by sheer luck.
Honestly, I see nothing hurt by this... and if anything, it got someone who does not except for an occasional wirblewind sortie into a tank for a good couple hours.
Post by: waystin2 on December 19, 2017, 10:04:09 AM
I normally don't GV, but yesterday I was able to approach a base, deack it from an elevated position, shoot a couple GV's on the base. At one point I was tracked and out of ammo so had to smoke myself out and wait for supplies... but all in all, the GV dar did not prevent me from getting into position, taking out base guns, and eventually landing.You are correct Sir. It is a tool not a button that starts the apocalypse.
On subsequent Seek and Destroy missions in a GV which I never do... there was nothing done that prevented someone from being completely hidden and popping us off as we tried to find them. Add to the fact you no longer hear the gun shots, simply the explosion or the instatower, and there's no real way still to try and track the tank except by sheer luck.
Honestly, I see nothing hurt by this... and if anything, it got someone who does not except for an occasional wirblewind sortie into a tank for a good couple hours.
Post by: bustr on December 19, 2017, 02:34:46 PM
Does Hitech owe it to the customers looking to fight GV's with a GV less than to customers who want to hide from fighting anyone if they can manage it all night?
I know GVers in the game who before GVDAR couldn't find fights with other GVers who never bother to visit these forums. Most of the GVers in these forums complaining about GVDAR want to hide as long as they can from other GVs and planes. Airjer was the first GVer who by accident or by sneaky strategy used the GVDAR to fake out my hunting him with an IL2 and almost captured my feild out from under me before I decided to make one more pass over the town. If I had been 30 seconds later, he may have gotten it. From this point on, GVDAR is only to let me know I can hunt a GV with an IL2 if I'm so inclined. The rest will be old school hunting it down or letting my squad mates who like to fight GV-vs-GV know where to go hunt one. Their time in the evening is limited so GVDAR has improved their ability to find fights with GV's courtesy of Hitech. Seems like he's looking out for his customers that way since this is a combat game.
It's funny how the competition dumps all of their tanks within a mile of each other and they run around like keystone cops with shotguns blasting each other in the open and call that combat. But, the closer Hitech brings us to that in this game, it's called the equivalent of mental abuse against grown men..... :rolleyes:
Post by: Electroman on December 19, 2017, 04:53:19 PM
Their time in the evening is limited so GVDAR has improved their ability to find fights with GV's courtesy of Hitech. Seems like he's looking out for his customers that way since this is a combat game.
No Bustr...I regrettably disagree. GV's have always had the ability to find a fight through sound, using an FI to find GV's, etc. Those tactics have not changed. What it has done is narrow the search area down further to a specific area reducing the time it takes to find a GV to fight. Nothing else has changed for the GV to GV fight from that perspective.
What it has also done is reduced the amount of time it takes to find a GV from an aircraft perspective by the same principles and now causing the unfair advantage. This is what most are upset about.
You can go on and on about your mothership / kilngon cloaking device banter. The fact of the matter is...the game was changed too much - for the worse.
Post by: JimmyD3 on December 19, 2017, 05:08:09 PM
Most of the GVers in these forums complaining about GVDAR want to hide as long as they can from other GVs and planes.
It's funny how the competition dumps all of their tanks within a mile of each other and they run around like keystone cops with shotguns blasting each other in the open and call that combat. But, the closer Hitech brings us to that in this game, it's called the equivalent of mental abuse against grown men..... :rolleyes:
Bustr my friend your statement about "most of the gvers on these forums" is just out and out wrong and you know that. Go ahead and list at least 25 known long time GVers that fall into that category. You can't, because its not true.
And running around like keystone cop with shotguns blasting each other? Isn't that what air combat is? Flying around shooting at the enemy. No sir you are playing double standards, as are Devil and Fugi.
I have adapted to the change, I am still getting just as many gv kills, and aircraft kills as before, but there are many that will not or can not adapt. To them they are forced into a tough decision. And for ANY ONE on this forum to suggest that the likes of DR7, Killroy, Mano, Tyfoo, Virgle, Slider, GT101, GS, Rain000, Redctchr, WWhiskey (RIP) Hoagi, SEagle, DFCrash, Bangsbox, and numerous others, are not skilled and capable players of this game, just shows their ignorance and jealousy.
This thread needs to sealed, before bad blood comes from it. There I'm done, no more discussion with FOOLS, you can't win. :mad:
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2017, 05:13:23 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 19, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
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Post by: wil3ur on December 19, 2017, 05:25:53 PM
So I'm at quite a loss as to how GV dar made this impossible.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 19, 2017, 05:29:35 PM
Let’s be honest here, any forward operating base will have observers. It is quite simple to triangulate a location based on sound. I perform location triangulation just about everyday in my job looking for Emergency Locators from aircraft whether it be a real world situation (plane crash) or because of a survival kit ELT Activation that happened by a careless maintainer on any 1 of 200 aircraft I maintain. So, what’s the complaint again?
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Post by: molybdenum on December 19, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
No Bustr...I regrettably disagree. GV's have always had the ability to find a fight through sound, using an FI to find GV's, etc. Those tactics have not changed. What it has done is narrow the search area down further to a specific area reducing the time it takes to find a GV to fight. Nothing else has changed for the GV to GV fight from that perspective.
What it has also done is reduced the amount of time it takes to find a GV from an aircraft perspective by the same principles and now causing the unfair advantage. This is what most are upset about.
You can go on and on about your mothership / kilngon cloaking device banter. The fact of the matter is...the game was changed too much - for the worse.
Very well put. I wish I could be that succinct.
Post by: bustr on December 19, 2017, 07:04:57 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 19, 2017, 07:05:34 PM
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Post by: Electroman on December 19, 2017, 08:22:54 PM
Does Hitech owe it to the customers looking to fight GV's with a GV less than to customers who want to hide from fighting anyone if they can manage it all night?
What is your point Bustr? Quit talking in riddles...
It isn't a question of whether or not he owes one side or another anything. What I and others have simply said is that there was too large of a shift to one side and favor one group of players now over another. Yes - it's the same advantage for all countries respectably, but to those who do not use fighters much and are / were more dedicated GV'ers a large part of their game play was changed - and not just a little...a LOT.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 19, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
Bustr my friend your statement about "most of the gvers on these forums" is just out and out wrong and you know that. Go ahead and list at least 25 known long time GVers that fall into that category. You can't, because its not true.
And running around like keystone cop with shotguns blasting each other? Isn't that what air combat is? Flying around shooting at the enemy. No sir you are playing double standards, as are Devil and Fugi.
I have adapted to the change, I am still getting just as many gv kills, and aircraft kills as before, but there are many that will not or can not adapt. To them they are forced into a tough decision. And for ANY ONE on this forum to suggest that the likes of DR7, Killroy, Mano, Tyfoo, Virgle, Slider, GT101, GS, Rain000, Redctchr, WWhiskey (RIP) Hoagi, SEagle, DFCrash, Bangsbox, and numerous others, are not skilled and capable players of this game, just shows their ignorance and jealousy.
This thread needs to sealed, before bad blood comes from it. There I'm done, no more discussion with FOOLS, you can't win. :mad:
They are very skilled..... at hiding and popping players that have no clue that they are there.
You "old timer" GVers have to look at what HTC looks at. They need players to stay/subscribe and play the game. If a new player spawns in and gets popped a bunch of times even if they change spawn point never knowing that there was someone there, or make a run to a field and again get popped never knowing a guy was around, or heaven forbid a guy LOOKING for a GV fight has no idea where any GVs are.
You yourself have said you have no trouble still getting your kills so obviously the GVdar doesn't seem to be hurting you, why are you complaining? Over all I think its a good move for HTC to help keep new players. Anything that creates more combat is a plus in my book.
Post by: Oldman731 on December 19, 2017, 08:36:45 PM
If a new player spawns in and gets popped a bunch of times even if they change spawn point never knowing that there was someone there, or make a run to a field and again get popped never knowing a guy was around, or heaven forbid a guy LOOKING for a GV fight has no idea where any GVs are.
Heh. You must have witnessed my one and only foray in a tank. I kept motoring around, looking for another tank, and was ambushed by a silent enema several times. I thought, "Why doesn't he come out to fight?" Dumb question, especially now that I have the wisdom imparted by reading these threads, but the notion of sitting around with your motor turned off until someone wanders into your field of fire just didn't occur to me.
But hey, that seems to be the way the GV game is played, and it has certainly been successful in attracting paying players over the past few years. One hopes that there will be more oldman look-alike noobs than there will be angry departing souls.
- oldman
Post by: 8thJinx on December 19, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on December 19, 2017, 08:59:19 PM
I just spent 45 minutes looking for a gif of someone beating a dead horse, and failed.
I've got a feeling that this one will be beat until there's nothing left except a base for Jell-O mix.
Post by: 8thJinx on December 19, 2017, 09:04:08 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on December 19, 2017, 09:04:53 PM
Heh. You must have witnessed my one and only foray in a tank. I kept motoring around, looking for another tank, and was ambushed by a silent enema several times. I thought, "Why doesn't he come out to fight?" Dumb question, especially now that I have the wisdom imparted by reading these threads, but the notion of sitting around with your motor turned off until someone wanders into your field of fire just didn't occur to me.
But hey, that seems to be the way the GV game is played, and it has certainly been successful in attracting paying players over the past few years. One hopes that there will be more oldman look-alike noobs than there will be angry departing souls.
- oldman
Another thing to look at is they are trying to pull players from WOT and such. Those games have nothing BUT action!. It may only be for 10 minutes or what ever those games run, but they have to make it easier for THOSE players to find fights and get that actiopn.
Post by: Electroman on December 20, 2017, 12:30:40 AM
They are very skilled..... at hiding and popping players that have no clue that they are there.
You "old timer" GVers have to look at what HTC looks at. They need players to stay/subscribe and play the game. If a new player spawns in and gets popped a bunch of times even if they change spawn point never knowing that there was someone there, or make a run to a field and again get popped never knowing a guy was around, or heaven forbid a guy LOOKING for a GV fight has no idea where any GVs are.
You yourself have said you have no trouble still getting your kills so obviously the GVdar doesn't seem to be hurting you, why are you complaining? Over all I think its a good move for HTC to help keep new players. Anything that creates more combat is a plus in my book.
The GVDar does nothing to stop players from "hiding and popping" other GV players. There is still that element although it is more obvious that a GV is located in the same section as you are now.
Again - it's not the GV to GV issue...it's the swinging this to far to the advantage of bomb****s to pop GV's.
Keep the GVDar - just don't narrow it to the 3x3 location square. Make it larger - say 6 x 6 or 9 x 9. At least don't narrow things down so much that you continue to give an unfair advantage every time a GV pops up at a base.
Post by: waystin2 on December 20, 2017, 06:57:54 AM
The GVDar does nothing to stop players from "hiding and popping" other GV players. There is still that element although it is more obvious that a GV is located in the same section as you are now.
Again - it's not the GV to GV issue...it's the swinging this to far to the advantage of bomb****s to pop GV's.
Keep the GVDar - just don't narrow it to the 3x3 location square. Make it larger - say 6 x 6 or 9 x 9. At least don't narrow things down so much that you continue to give an unfair advantage every time a GV pops up at a base.
A few things Elec. You are starting to embarass yourself going on about this. I thought you were a bit more of a scrapper and a lot less of a whiner. Every time I have ever run into you, you have fought. Something to be admired in this game. You do need to note that not everyone kills GV's with bombs. Further most of us that know how to hunt GV's still do it the way we always have prior to the addition of GV Dar. However if I cannot find a vehicle within a reasonable amount of time I will use the new tool to narrow the search. I will not spend my whole night playing whack a mole. It's just not fun.
See you up there,
Waystin2
Post by: 8thJinx on December 20, 2017, 07:55:35 AM
Again - it's not the GV to GV issue...it's the swinging this to far to the advantage of bomb****s to pop GV's.
I really hope this thread dies. Here's a few nails for its coffin:
AH2 had bombs. AH2 had planes that carried bombs. AH2 had pilots that flew planes that carried bombs. AH2 had far fewer trees. AH2 saw far more GV fights at the spawns and in between spawns, than at or on the bases. Ord bunkers blow up when you drop a bomb on them. Bombs are unavailable when ord bunkers are down.
Post by: Electroman on December 20, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
A few things Elec. You are starting to embarass yourself going on about this. I thought you were a bit more of a scrapper and a lot less of a whiner. Every time I have ever run into you, you have fought. Something to be admired in this game. You do need to note that not everyone kills GV's with bombs. Further most of us that know how to hunt GV's still do it the way we always have prior to the addition of GV Dar. However if I cannot find a vehicle within a reasonable amount of time I will use the new tool to narrow the search. I will not spend my whole night playing whack a mole. It's just not fun.
See you up there,
Waystin2
Waystin,
Respectfully sir - it's not a "whine" - it's a legitimate fact that it changed the game immensely for the GV players. There are a lot of people upset about it and many people have voiced their opinions or thoughts on at least if it is to stay maybe how to balance it slightly. There would be more opinions voiced as well but not all my squaddies are on the forums (as well as others).
At any rate like I said before I'll simply make it a point to do much more bomb****ing now. And don't worry - I'm still a scrapper and happy to give you a run for your money against your 262 again with my buffs anytime :D
:salute
Post by: Dundee on December 20, 2017, 02:56:50 PM
Waystin,
Respectfully sir - it's not a "whine" - it's a legitimate fact that it changed the game immensely for the GV players. There are a lot of people upset about it and many people have voiced their opinions or thoughts on at least if it is to stay maybe how to balance it slightly. There would be more opinions voiced as well but not all my squaddies are on the forums (as well as others).
At any rate like I said before I'll simply make it a point to do much more bomb****ing now. And don't worry - I'm still a scrapper and happy to give you a run for your money against your 262 again with my buffs anytime :D
If memory serves me right..... In AH II even your own squad mates couldn't see you on the map, let alone tank icons and dar........what a way to screw up a game
:salute
Post by: molybdenum on December 20, 2017, 07:12:52 PM
I really hope this thread dies.
The reason the thread's going on for as long as is has is because the GV dar is such a paradigm shift. People have unsubscribed from the game because of it, and others have hinted they might. I know of no one who GVs primarily that likes it at all.
My forlorn hope is that HT decides it does more harm than good and gets rid of it.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 20, 2017, 07:43:17 PM
It’s like the kid who doesn’t get their way and takes his toys and goes home.
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Post by: 8thJinx on December 20, 2017, 07:57:04 PM
The reason the thread's going on for as long as is has is because the GV dar is such a paradigm shift. People have unsubscribed from the game because of it, and others have hinted they might. I know of no one who GVs primarily that likes it at all.
My forlorn hope is that HT decides it does more harm than good and gets rid of it.
If it helps business, it will stay. Long term, that will be the deciding factor. I honestly don't have a problem with it, especially if it results in new players. I have a bigger problem with the converted maps and how they lost the magic. But that's not HTC's gig. That is squarely a map making thing, and there are people diligently working on the problem.
The issue some people are having boils down to two words: "being found." It was a whole lot easier to find a GV in AH2. I can't even remember what the trees looked like in AH2, there were so few of them. It was like driving a tank down a fairway, for cripes sake. And for the love of all things holy, the only thing you need to do to stop the bombs from falling on you is to take out the ord bunkers.
Post by: wil3ur on December 20, 2017, 08:09:33 PM
And for the love of all things holy, the only thing you need to do to stop the bombs from falling on you is to take out the ord bunkers.
But how can I take down the ord bunkers if I'm sitting in a bush spawn camping waiting for noskill kills?
HiTech should get rid of ord or I'm cancelling my sub.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 20, 2017, 08:18:06 PM
The reason the thread's going on for as long as is has is because the GV dar is such a paradigm shift. People have unsubscribed from the game because of it, and others have hinted they might. I know of no one who GVs primarily that likes it at all.
My forlorn hope is that HT decides it does more harm than good and gets rid of it.
I'll just quote myself from earlier.
Bunch of guys quit a combat game because it's harder or them to avoid combat. That's addition via subtraction in my book.
:aok
My hope is that HTC gets not just enough new subs to cover the loss of the cowards and quitters, but enough that it will encourage them to continue rooting out other ways that players also avoid combat.
Post by: Dundee on December 20, 2017, 10:58:07 PM
My hope is that HTC gets not just enough new subs to cover the loss of the cowards and quitters, but enough that it will encourage them to continue rooting out other ways that players also avoid combat.
Big talk from a guy who never shows up in a GV .....bring it.....I dare you
Post by: Devil 505 on December 20, 2017, 11:11:19 PM
I'd rather do something more entertaining than GV'ing - like ironing my socks.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 21, 2017, 09:32:32 AM
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Post by: wil3ur on December 21, 2017, 09:45:44 AM
Nah, I'm good. I don't waste time on bad gameplay.
I'd rather do something more entertaining than GV'ing - like ironing my socks.
:rofl
Post by: molybdenum on December 21, 2017, 07:30:51 PM
If that’s all it takes for someone to cancel their sub, were they really committed in the first place?
Here’s an idea, get with your fellow GV’ers and air drivers and formulate tactics to strengthen your game play. It’s all about adapting and as many of you are great GV’ers through self identification, this should be a simple task.
1) I played AH for ~5 years, and for the last 3 of those I was on a minimum of four hours a day, seven days a week. Yeah, I know, that means I have issues, but clearly "commitment" isn't one of them.
2) No, it's not "all about adapting." It's about having fun. If the game were to suddenly turn and be less balanced in favor of GVers (as it has now become less balanced in the favor of bomb****s), pilots like Devil505 would be complaining too, and rightfully so. You're expecting that people who had their favorite toys taken away from them will find new toys to play with. Many will--electroman is going to focus more on bombing GVs now, for example, because the game has given bomb****s a new and distinct advantage. Other players will say "Ah, well, it's been a fun five years" and move on.
When I 1st played AH I knew virtually nothing. I gradually discovered what I liked and what I was good at and focused on those things. If those things are neutered, I have the choice to spend $15/mo to try to like something else, or use the time and money to do things I already know I like. The only reason the decision to leave was difficult was I'll miss some of the people I played with....
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 21, 2017, 08:57:00 PM
Post by: Ciaphas on December 21, 2017, 10:26:18 PM
1) I played AH for ~5 years, and for the last 3 of those I was on a minimum of four hours a day, seven days a week. Yeah, I know, that means I have issues, but clearly "commitment" isn't one of them.
2) No, it's not "all about adapting." It's about having fun. If the game were to suddenly turn and be less balanced in favor of GVers (as it has now become less balanced in the favor of bomb****s), pilots like Devil505 would be complaining too, and rightfully so. You're expecting that people who had their favorite toys taken away from them will find new toys to play with. Many will--electroman is going to focus more on bombing GVs now, for example, because the game has given bomb****s a new and distinct advantage. Other players will say "Ah, well, it's been a fun five years" and move on.
When I 1st played AH I knew virtually nothing. I gradually discovered what I liked and what I was good at and focused on those things. If those things are neutered, I have the choice to spend $15/mo to try to like something else, or use the time and money to do things I already know I like. The only reason the decision to leave was difficult was I'll miss some of the people I played with....
Grow up, it’s a game
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Post by: Electroman on December 21, 2017, 11:05:41 PM
Say what you will...but the fact is we're losing players now because of it. In fact...one of my long time squaddies called in today and cancelled his subscription which I just found out.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 21, 2017, 11:08:14 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Devil 505 on December 21, 2017, 11:11:22 PM
Post by: mako04 on December 22, 2017, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 22, 2017, 09:26:04 AM
the only thing you need to do to stop the bombs from falling on you is to take out the ord bunkers.The best suggestion yet. Of course to some the word GV is the indicator of non combatant coward, But. I spent about a half hour working my way towards an airfield, about an equivalent time for a bombing run. From the time I spawned I had a bomber formation and a couple of fighters hunting me bombing likely tree clumps all the way. It was just scoot to the next tree line before they could make their turns. All the way to the field I never fired at them as some on here want you to do to turn on the big tracer arrow to 'here I am'. Made it to the field, took out guns, radar and the last ammo bunker. Ended up tracked by field ack and was finally killed by a tank driven by guess who ? The bomber pilot that tried to find me all that time. My combat avoidance as some say tied up 3-4 players from harassing our base that was on the verge of being taken, stopped the bombing runs to there. The GV dar let them know there was a GV a few miles from the base, but since I made it all the way to the base obviously didn't assist them in actually finding me. So all in all I think it worked the way it was designed.
Post by: Dundee on December 22, 2017, 01:07:04 PM
The best suggestion yet. Of course to some the word GV is the indicator of non combatant coward, But. I spent about a half hour working my way towards an airfield, about an equivalent time for a bombing run. From the time I spawned I had a bomber formation and a couple of fighters hunting me bombing likely tree clumps all the way. It was just scoot to the next tree line before they could make their turns. All the way to the field I never fired at them as some on here want you to do to turn on the big tracer arrow to 'here I am'. Made it to the field, took out guns, radar and the last ammo bunker. Ended up tracked by field ack and was finally killed by a tank driven by guess who ? The bomber pilot that tried to find me all that time. My combat avoidance as some say tied up 3-4 players from harassing our base that was on the verge of being taken, stopped the bombing runs to there. The GV dar let them know there was a GV a few miles from the base, but since I made it all the way to the base obviously didn't assist them in actually finding me. So all in all I think it worked the way it was designed.
There are only a few people who do not leave the GV to do other things in AH III...if I am not in a GV I can be found in an FW190F de acking a Vbase or town.....or in some type of bomber taking out some strat. I can honestly say I have never been killed or have killed Tyfoo in an aircraft.. He's always in a GV somewhere when he's logged in. To those who say we avoid combat have never climbed out of their aircraft and get in a tank. The world of stealth.... staying hidden means life. where instead of an array of multiply machine guns spewing bullets....... you have 1 shot to get it right.
Post by: The Fugitive on December 22, 2017, 01:54:55 PM
There are only a few people who do not leave the GV to do other things in AH III...if I am not in a GV I can be found in an FW190F de acking a Vbase or town.....or in some type of bomber taking out some strat. I can honestly say I have never been killed or have killed Tyfoo in an aircraft.. He's always in a GV somewhere when he's logged in. To those who say we avoid combat have never climbed out of their aircraft and get in a tank. The world of stealth.... staying hidden means life. where instead of an array of multiply machine guns spewing bullets....... you have 1 shot to get it right.
I find it funny that your description of things you do when not in a GV does NOT include fighting other people, but going after only objects that dont fight back.
EDIT, oops! and heres is another one....
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391010.msg5193509.html#msg5193509
It really does seem like you dont want to fight people.
Post by: wil3ur on December 22, 2017, 02:14:34 PM
Post by: 8thJinx on December 22, 2017, 02:15:46 PM
I find it funny that your description of things you do when not in a GV does NOT include fighting other people, but going after only objects that dont fight back.
To be fair, if this game were only about fighting other people, there'd be no need for towns, strats, C-47's, or winning of the war.
Let's not make this into "this game is only about shooting at other people." Because it's not.
Post by: Devil 505 on December 22, 2017, 02:32:36 PM
To be fair, if this game were only about fighting other people, there'd be no need for towns, strats, C-47's, or winning of the war.
Let's not make this into "this game is only about shooting at other people." Because it's not.
Yes, but it should also be very difficult to avoid getting shot at by another player. That's the crux of the issue.
The cry babies can't handle being targeted and believe they have some right to be immune to being in another player's crosshairs.
Post by: 8thJinx on December 22, 2017, 02:41:25 PM
Yes, but it should also be very difficult to avoid getting shot at by another player. That's the crux of the issue.
Is it? If that were true, then folks here would be going ballistic over the high-alt bombers, and the guys in cruisers and battleships.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on December 22, 2017, 02:42:19 PM
Yes, but it should also be very difficult to avoid getting shot at by another player. That's the crux of the issue.
The cry babies can't handle being targeted and believe they have some right to be immune to being in another player's crosshairs.
Sounds like the musings of a butterbar 90 day wonder his first day in the bush :neener:
Post by: Devil 505 on December 22, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
Is it? If that were true, then folks here would be going ballistic over the high-alt bombers, and the guys in cruisers and battleships.
Bomber alt is not an issue with sufficient warning. Just hop in a TA 152 or K-4 and no bomber is too high. The problem is when I invest the time to climb up to him and position myself for an intercept only to have the bomber pilot bail out once I'm in icon range. That mentality is the same as these GV'ers. All is fair until you have them in your sights.
The air-to-air equivalent of the GV complaints would if HTC disables ejecting and bomb-and-bailers come in here to whine about not being able to avoid geting shot.
Post by: Electroman on December 22, 2017, 03:40:10 PM
Bomber alt is not an issue with sufficient warning. Just hop in a TA 152 or K-4 and no bomber is too high. The problem is when I invest the time to climb up to him and position myself for an intercept only to have the bomber pilot bail out once I'm in icon range. That mentality is the same as these GV'ers. All is fair until you have them in your sights.
The air-to-air equivalent of the GV complaints would if HTC disables ejecting and bomb-and-bailers come in here to whine about not being able to avoid geting shot.
GREAT IDEA! I think I can save a lot more time now and bomb & bail...I like it.
Post by: Dundee on December 22, 2017, 04:52:55 PM
I find it funny that your description of things you do when not in a GV does NOT include fighting other people, but going after only objects that dont fight back.
EDIT, oops! and heres is another one....
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391010.msg5193509.html#msg5193509
It really does seem like you dont want to fight people.
The same can be said of you sir...... I have yet to bash a 85mm HVAP through the side of your tank.
Post by: Dundee on December 22, 2017, 04:59:14 PM
Bomber alt is not an issue with sufficient warning. Just hop in a TA 152 or K-4 and no bomber is too high. The problem is when I invest the time to climb up to him and position myself for an intercept only to have the bomber pilot bail out once I'm in icon range. That mentality is the same as these GV'ers. All is fair until you have them in your sights.
The air-to-air equivalent of the GV complaints would if HTC disables ejecting and bomb-and-bailers come in here to whine about not being able to avoid geting shot.
That's pathetic Devil, comparing the Bomb and Bail folks with people doing GV work..... You are a real special..............
Post by: Dundee on December 22, 2017, 05:02:12 PM
I find it funny that your description of things you do when not in a GV does NOT include fighting other people, but going after only objects that dont fight back.
EDIT, oops! and heres is another one....
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391010.msg5193509.html#msg5193509
It really does seem like you dont want to fight people.
You want to fight....... Pick you tank and PM me
Post by: Devil 505 on December 22, 2017, 05:07:16 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on December 22, 2017, 05:19:35 PM
The same can be said of you sir...... I have yet to bash a 85mm HVAP through the side of your tank.
Im just that good!
Post by: Dundee on December 22, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
Im just that good!
Fantastic.................gra b your tank and lets do this
Post by: Dundee on December 29, 2017, 01:01:44 AM
Fantastic.................gra b your tank and lets do this
No takers...... figures they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a tank even if they were inside the barn
Post by: RODBUSTR on December 29, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Post by: waystin2 on December 30, 2017, 08:15:30 AM
Post by: 8thJinx on December 30, 2017, 12:24:27 PM
Great GV fighting last night! Offense and defense! Those who chose to stay out just missed the fun. GV dar had little to do with the outcome, all it did was channel the action.
There appears to be several threshold events, at which point GV fights are fun despite the GV dar:
1. There needs to be gv's on each side on the ground.
2. Ords need to be down.
3. The field has to be far enough away from another field that it's not worth it for bombt***s to fly over, or ords have to be down there too.
4. The planes in the air need to be occupied with other planes.
If one of those things aren't happening, then the table is basically tilted against having a decent GV fight. But if all four conditions are present, the GV fights are great. Even with GV dar.
And notice how all of those items are within both sides' control, and none of them deliver an advantage through GV dar.
Post by: waystin2 on December 30, 2017, 01:36:54 PM
There appears to be several threshold events, at which point GV fights are fun despite the GV dar:1. There were GV's on both sides. Hard to have a one sided fight. :rolleyes:
1. There needs to be gv's on each side on the ground.
2. Ords need to be down.
3. The field has to be far enough away from another field that it's not worth it for bombt***s to fly over, or ords have to be down there too.
4. The planes in the air need to be occupied with other planes.
If one of those things aren't happening, then the table is basically tilted against having a decent GV fight. But if all four conditions are present, the GV fights are great. Even with GV dar.
And notice how all of those items are within both sides' control, and none of them deliver an advantage through GV dar.
2. They were not down at our field and the bad guys were bringing them in from their field to bomb our GV's as well. It was give as good as you get.
3. See answer 2. Never did I hear a single GV complain about being egged due to an unfair GV Dar advantage that the enemy had. They just re-upped and went at the fight again.
4. Planes were fighting planes and attacking GV's as it should be. Total chaos. AH III at it's best!
You are missing out if you choose to sit out due to your misunderstandings. :aok
Post by: 1stpar3 on December 30, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
Post by: madrid311 on December 30, 2017, 02:24:52 PM
:rofl GV dar. IS NOT EASY MODE :old: Twice yesterday, GVdar showed up.....Defenders "IN TANKS" and planes upped"Bomb hunters"....1 hour of circling the DAR square by 3 planes and 2 tankers. Never so much as caught a flicker of RED. I do this relentlessly! :devil I am always heavy for a GV and pretty good at what I do. Too me, this thread is about like threads griping about HOs. Its IN THE GAME, adjust or dont, I really dont care and your reluctance to get over stuff doesnt affect me....BUT DANG GUYS QUIT THE MOANING. Are we trying to grow our player base or just run every one off? Learn something new, NO ONE knows everything. Groaning and moaning will NOT give you your desired results so please just knock it off :old:
+1
Post by: 8thJinx on December 30, 2017, 02:39:01 PM
You are missing out if you choose to sit out due to your misunderstandings. :aok
Yeah, I think I over analyzed it. But I didn't sit it out. I was right there in the thick of it. It was fun. I think what I was trying to do was make a point that the fun fight at that base doesn't happen at every base, on all the maps. It feels like certain conditions need to be met before it turns into an awesome time. On that same map, you could have 8 GVs spawn into a base, and just get bombed relentlessly and never see another vehicle. And never even get a round off, much less shoot at something. But, I also think that it behooves the attackers to take out ords and bring some planes and make a party of it, to avoid that relentless bombing. In a nut shell, assuming you can just spawn into a field and have an unmolested journey into town or onto the runway is just silly, imho.
Post by: bustr on December 30, 2017, 02:55:11 PM
One of the spawns was centered on a 150ft elevation looking down over the river to the airfield just at long range firing capability for tanks and M4 rockets. They controlled one bridge from that high ground. The land at the second spawn was slightly higher than the land on the airfield side of the river. The open vistas to tree thickets percentage allowed for rapid maneuvering and good concealment.
It's gamey but, GVers are more likely to come back against superior numbers if they feel like the terrain gives them an equalizer. And they did get a tank on the field with an M3 almost capturing the map room under our noses when we thought we had beaten them back during one of their many attacks. They owned both spawns into that field until our forces took back one of our feilds and saved us. Those map room on the airfield setups make for some vicious action if the owners want to defend. Even one guy willing to get towered a lot will hold up a capture against 12 guys like we ran into later after you logged off Waystin. Towns create lazy combat attitudes because the airfield is not the capture focus.
I got great data from that fight and the experiment in topography I placed there on making combat terrain inviting to GVers. I'm finding you only need to work with 100-200ft elevation differences to give GVer's a sense of being able to control their position. And Buzzsaw A2 has a bad GV spawn because it sets the enemy on a 500ft hill with a sniper hide to take down the GV hanger every time it comes up. That airfield needs to be rotated 180 to place the GV hanger out of easy sniper range. I did that to last night's field so it would take aircraft or ship guns to take down the GV hanger instead of a TigerII on top of a hill hidden in the middle of a spawn.
I really hate letting tanks sit on highlands risking nothing taking down airfields, in it's own way that's pandering just like Klingon cloaking trees. Many of the complaints about the GV game have a common impulse. GVers want to drive tanks around the AH combat zones like the muppets use to fly solo in K4's and dominate the arenas. To make that possible for them we need instant power-ups, Klingon cloaking trees, and Icons from the air that let wirbles rule because you have to get inside their gun range to see them. Now to keep them re-upping to keep a good fight going over an hour, it's obvious they want to sit in high sniper hides and risk very little with long range shooting. At least three well known GVers who don't care about not getting whacked kept up the actual active assault, got towered many times but, almost captured the field because they chose to fight and not worry about getting towered.
I blended the trees to grass ratio to enable fast assaults if anyone had the stones to attack at speed because those bridges also split the defenders forces and focus. Wonder how many GVers know most of the bushes and all bamboo groves on Oceania can be driven through and the attackers were doing just that to stay hidden all the way to the airfield. :O
Post by: Zardoz on December 30, 2017, 03:33:04 PM
:rofl GV dar. IS NOT EASY MODE :old: Twice yesterday, GVdar showed up.....Defenders "IN TANKS" and planes upped"Bomb hunters"....1 hour of circling the DAR square by 3 planes and 2 tankers. Never so much as caught a flicker of RED. I do this relentlessly! :devil I am always heavy for a GV and pretty good at what I do. Too me, this thread is about like threads griping about HOs. Its IN THE GAME, adjust or dont, I really dont care and your reluctance to get over stuff doesnt affect me....BUT DANG GUYS QUIT THE MOANING. Are we trying to grow our player base or just run every one off? Learn something new, NO ONE knows everything. Groaning and moaning will NOT give you your desired results so please just knock it off :old:
:salute
Post by: Scca on December 30, 2017, 04:34:12 PM
Post by: bustr on December 30, 2017, 04:47:49 PM
That 300ft highland which made them feel semi invincible and that they could dictate the fight from safety. Every one of these I've setup works out the same way for the same reasons in our game. A safe place to shoot from just like why the AH2 crater on CraterMA was so popular. They are absolutely not fair to the players on the airfield or to you being able to fly off to take part in a fight. One weenie with german optics from the safety of the trees on a hill can take your field down, vulch uppers on the runway, and even capture out from under you especially if he first salts the spawn with supplies. It means one weenie with a tank is dictating how 12 guys will spend their $14.95. Killing him once will not work because the topography is just too much in the favor of one weenie vs 12 fighters wanting to enjoy their evening fighting other planes. But, that kind of black-male is what GVers are really asking for and angry about in their perception of GVDAR. How you create the micro terrain around feilds to spawn GV into will determine if they keep coming back or find another field looking for terrain that makes them ground driving muppets with big cannons.
You can see in these three screen captures why that location was so attractive to the attacking GVers. The bridges and map room next to the tower sort of evened the advantages to spawning 300ft above the airfield three miles away in a TigerII hiding in the trees. The 1\2 mile grass buffer just barely kept the field from being captured with tanks defending it all over the place. I was in a manned gun and saw the panzer and M3 on the field exactly where no one expected them to show up from behind the GV hanger. I wouldn't do this kind of a micro terrain with a town as the capture focus because that is out of balance and would favor expending very little effort to capture feilds during prime time. I would put the spawn and town on elevations with a stream and bridges between them. A mile separation between spawns is looking better for getting spawn battles going instead of forcing everyone to drive then get whacked. The white circle is the random spawn area in the game so the terrain builder can paint it with trees and clutter to favor that area to protect against spawn camping. I wonder if anyone has noticed that at spawns on Oceania when the farm land clutter had too large of an open space where I placed a GV spawn? Probably not.....
This crap takes time to learn by building and testing it with terrains, then observing how those terrains are utilized in the MA versus screaming at Hitech in the forums to wave his magic wand. I suspect I'm re-learning an art that long ago disappeared when many of our old comrades left the game. As for Hitech, he is more valuable to our future happiness being a master programmer than being a minutia expert at how to play GV in the MA. Now I've got to find ways to give GVers this kind of advantage and balance it for game play without making me want to throw my mouse against the wall since it gets them to stay around and fight for hours.
(https://s20.postimg.org/wrjkuevzh/oceania279.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/njrcdqc2l/oceania280.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/umz7tc22l/oceania281.jpg)
Post by: molybdenum on December 31, 2017, 10:32:24 AM
Here is the simple secret to why the enemy tanks kept re-upping at the spawn.
That 300ft highland which made them feel semi invincible and that they could dictate the fight from safety... A safe place to shoot from just like why the AH2 crater on CraterMA was so popular. They are absolutely not fair to the players on the airfield or to you being able to fly off to take part in a fight. One weenie with german optics from the safety of the trees on a hill can take your field down, vulch uppers on the runway, and even capture out from under you especially if he first salts the spawn with supplies. It means one weenie with a tank is dictating how 12 guys will spend their $14.95. Killing him once will not work because the topography is just too much in the favor of one weenie vs 12 fighters wanting to enjoy their evening fighting other planes. But, that kind of black-male is what GVers are really asking for and angry about in their perception of GVDAR.
Lol. I would substitute the word "weenie" with the phrase "skilled and clever player," and in my AH career I never once vulched uppers on a runway with a GV; (rarely drove anything but an m3 and a wirble in fact) and did have it happen to me on occasion, though the situation you describe above was not at all common. Being sniped on the runway or coming out of a hangar was annoying, but in a good way. Players who had the ability and took the time and effort to get into an advantageous position like that earned my respect and made the game more interesting.
And no, GVers are not asking for GV dar to go away so they can do that sort of sniping thing, and to accuse them of having that motive is silly. It's simply very much easier now for a plane with a bomb to find and kill a GV, and it wasn't hard before. That limits game play options significantly.
Like I said in a previous post, many players are having favorite toys taken away from them and are being told to find new ones. Why would that go over well?
Post by: Ciaphas on December 31, 2017, 11:35:27 AM
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Post by: Electroman on December 31, 2017, 02:00:21 PM
Yeah, they are asking for the GVdar to go away as it spoils the game play style they are used to. That is literally the message that has developed in this thread... .
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No, what some have asked for was to "adjust" the GVDar. Like have a general dar bar present in a sector for example where there is no field / dar ring. To have GVDar down when the base radar is taken out...just like with airplanes. And to not have a square that is so small it generally leads you to the GV in a very short time.
I think if those 3 things were adjusted most would be fine with the GVDar.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 31, 2017, 02:06:47 PM
Quote
And no, GVers are not asking for GV dar to go away so they can do that sort of sniping thing, and to accuse them of having that motive is silly. It's simply very much easier now for a plane with a bomb to find and kill a GV, and it wasn't hard before. That limits game play options significantly.
So are they asking it to go away or aren’t they?
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Post by: 100Coogn on December 31, 2017, 02:13:11 PM
Coogan
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2017, 02:21:02 PM
Build several MA terrains, put tests into them and observe them over a year. Have you done that yet??
Aside from the well known players who don't care how often they get towered and do most of the "tank fighting", the rest want to sit on an elevation "safe" hide, sip their beers, and single finger each other to death from inside the Klingon cloaking trees. Dr7 is an exception because he dosn't need any elevation and has no problem hunting you when his hides run dry of targets. GVDAR is perceived to take that away from them when half the time even flying between the trees at bush top level, in a 3x3mile area you cannot find them when they shut down. Hitech's squirrels with cameras I guess in AH3 are doing a second job camouflageing every tank in the arena the moment it shuts off it's engine.
As I commented, now I have to find a way to incorporate elevations that don't turn the game into a GVer dictated cesspool of PO'd flyers getting 24x7 long ranged from some elevation three miles away when they want to enjoy their $14.95 furballing. Since you have only your opinions and no terrains, you don't get that MA terrains have to be balanced for all of Hitech's customers. That helps keep more people in our game.
Buzzsaw was imbalanced towards GVers until Waffle took 4k out of the central elevations. It also proved to me exposing the HQ and city was OK which I didn't do on BowlMA by placing it where it would be on a full 20x20 terrain while the real combat area was a 10x10 terrain. No one gets that to this day. Oceania is a 10x10 with the HQ and city exposed becasue 10x10 is a small terrain. Still, both terrains were balanced for air combat and ground combat along with micro terrain tests to help me understand ground combat. I still cannot believe no GVer figured out I setup the towns on BowlMA so you can mount the town hills closest to the airfield and snipe it with german optics. Means you can pick off defenders driving to the town or, camp the runway. GVDAR does not stop players from getting their tank into towns and hiding it.
Took a year of observation, listening to VOX and reading text along with reading in the forums to discover what kind of a spawn GVERs think is "ideal and fair to them". More like what makes them a ferret with a bazooka in a gerbil nursery. Same as how all the flyboys want cannons and warp 12 while turning on a dime then hovering like a dragonfly is their perfect WW2 fighter. The perfect AH3 GV spawns to make GVers feel like Hitech reeeaaaalllllyyyy understands their pain and cares about poor little them. If this is what it takes, once again it's the terrain builder and not Hitech since he does not spawn out and drive every single spawn a terrain builder puts into a terrain. He is trusting us to have the welfare of the game at heart. "Players don't" and very selfishly only want what they want so they are uber to the max in their tiny part of the game. Why I keep asking you "if" you have built an MA terrain yet because an imbalanced terrain will get you a lynch mob here in the forums ASAP just like Buzzsaw before Waffle modified it.
This is how you tell AH3 GVers you love them from their point of view, the perfect spawn points to be a ferret with a bazooka in a gerbil nursery and imbalanced in favor of GV's to the max without a lot of thought to even the positions. The first one is my terrain Oceania and the river along with rotating the airfield to protect the GV hanger from the spawn sniper kind of evens this scenario. The second one is A2 on Buzzsaw, the GV hanger is a gerbil in the nursery because the field needs to be rotated 180 degrees to protect it. Every time that GV hanger would come back up, a tank took it back down in minutes unopposed because of the elevation and distance. That is out of balance and abusive of many players by a single player. Kind of like single finger salutes that blinded whole country's in AH2 until Hitech made changes to the HQ. This is why terrains take so long if you are being honest about balancing the outcomes for the whole community.
(https://s20.postimg.org/atjfpd9yl/spwncmp01.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6x63tdwot/spwncmp02.jpg)
Post by: molybdenum on December 31, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
Moly,
Build several MA terrains, put tests into them and observe them over a year. Have you done that yet??
Jeez, is that all you can say when confronted with irrefutable logic?? "Build your own terrains and then we can talk?"
The question was rhetorical because you obviously said a lot after your initial sentence, but none of it addressed my point, which, simpified, is:
"The GV dar makes it far too easy to kill GVs with bomb****s."
That neuters a key component of the game, and I am not a GVer! Wirbs for defense, m3s for troops and resup...that's probably 90% of what I do on the ground. I don't have the same dog in the hunt as people do who primarily prefer to GV, but it still annoys me enough to the extent that I'm out of the game tomorrow. What do the true GVers think? (A rhetorical question again).
Here's a real question that I hope you'll answer. If you know the answer.
How closely does your vision for how AH3 ought to be played coincide with HTs? If you guys are on the same wavelength then there's no point in me looking back and hoping things balance out, because the game will be trending in a direction I dislike and to hell with it.
The GV dar is using a hammer to squash a gnat. What can't you guys see about that?
Post by: bustr on December 31, 2017, 05:26:56 PM
Moly,
Have you built a terrain yet or are you just going to yell at Hitech to wave his magic wand and make you happy until you turn blue in the face as usual? Friday night the bish loved my 300ft spawn over the airfield with a river between them and the airfield. I stopped yelling at Hitech during the two years of the alpha\beta testing and started creating solutions which you seem unwilling to do for your vision of GV combat in this game. That in effect is some almighty powerful personal control of where this game goes if you stop yelling and start building. The only person who can stop you is Hitech and he wants diverse terrains because it's good for business. You just have to be willing to make any changes he asks of you and not take offense. He is a good partner for last minute ideas because of his long experience with this venue.
Just PM Easyscor and he will get you started on your version of an AH3 Gvers paradise. Remember to research what has not worked on terrains like Buzzsaw and what I've written about my own. Then review offline in CM mode all of the terrains in rotation to see how your predecessors thought things should be done. There are some real boners and some genius setups at different locations. Otherwise, you scream a lot without much to support your position other than the sky is falling.
Post by: Ciaphas on December 31, 2017, 05:27:33 PM
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Post by: atlau on January 01, 2018, 11:11:06 PM
Post by: 1stpar3 on January 02, 2018, 01:28:03 AM
Even with the gv dar tanks can remain hidden indefinitely with ah3 trees. I'd argue the squares should be even smaller. Some players will leave their tanks parked near a base for hours just to grief. Or we need parking meters and parking tickets.ABSOLUTELY! Parking meters would ROCK! Plus revenues from them could pay for some more adds :aok :x Under the right tree....ALMOST impossible to find a tank with engine off! Me and Electroman search a GV dar square for about 30 minutes the other day...only found him because he started up to change positions bit. So if GV isnt moving and had some patience, the GV dar acts just like a dar bar with radar being out. Surely it isnt too much to change how you approach GVing a bit? Its like most things....THEY CHANGE! Roll with it a bit and you will see that it isnt all that different :old:
Post by: popeye on January 02, 2018, 08:24:13 AM
Even with the gv dar tanks can remain hidden indefinitely with ah3 trees.
Yes.
And GVdar is just as helpful to attackers as to defenders by revealing when it is not safe to run troops on prepped ports and Vbases.
Post by: GOODBYE on January 03, 2018, 03:40:06 AM
Post by: atlau on January 03, 2018, 05:43:17 AM
Post by: BuckShot on January 03, 2018, 08:04:41 PM
I noticed it the other night when I saw a square at the end of a pt spawn arrow...he deeead.
Post by: Ciaphas on January 03, 2018, 08:14:29 PM
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Post by: Dundee on January 04, 2018, 01:23:45 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on January 04, 2018, 01:43:46 PM
See rule #4
Post by: Max on January 04, 2018, 02:39:46 PM
"So Dundee...you want me to set the WAYBACK MACHINE back to AH2 2014"?
:devil
Post by: Ciaphas on January 04, 2018, 03:01:39 PM
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Post by: 8thJinx on January 04, 2018, 03:04:48 PM
Post by: scott66 on January 04, 2018, 03:07:22 PM
Everyone needs to calm down. There are things in the pipeline that are going to blow peoples' minds.you tease!!!
Post by: thrila on January 04, 2018, 03:11:56 PM
Everyone needs to calm down. There are things in the pipeline that are going to blow peoples' minds.
Land mines?! :x
Post by: bustr on January 04, 2018, 03:17:51 PM
That is the ultimate GVer wet dream in this game and fortunately has only ever been setup in one or two places on a few terrains. Then becomes the whines of AH2 legend they want Hitech to wave his magic wand and recreate or they will do something like stomp their feet and hold their breath. Still dosn't mean I cannot work with that while making the scenario balanced for both sides. But, that cannot dominate the micro terrains which are constructed around every single GV spawn. And there are so many other micro features that can be produced to "balance" that wet dream feature. Just takes time to build them with what Hitech has made available to me.
When you really look at all the old AH2 wet dream features they ended up giving GVers a way to hide and snipe with impunity or sit in a high elevation hide and share lazer guided kaboom love letters at targets that most of the time couldn't get out of the way. Not much different from a run of the mill first person shooter using SOCOM weapons. And then the suicide spawn camps that went on 50 or 60 kills per individual sniper all night long in AH2. I could duplicate those and create hides for those sniper hero's of yore. Still, today I doubt the new generation of players would want to stick around for something so blatantly unfair.
Dr7 seems to have no problem with the GVDAR letting players know he is in the 3x3 next to them. He still kills everything he sets out to and lands his kills. I really wish he would come in the forums and talk about GVing, he may have some insights I can use to build GV micro terrains. Otherwise it's, I want places to hide so I'm immune to planes and other tanks while I slaughter them all with impunity and I want places to shut their feilds down from a high point. Meh.....they want to play Super Mario Bros. with bazookas.
8th,
Will Hitech allow me to add pitch to your flat objects so I don't have to flatten whole areas and screw the run of the topography? Ever notice all of the retro fitted 1x1 and 2x2 objects on terrains that kill the topography by leaving corner scars on hill and mountain slopes along with whomever did that didn't bother to clean up and try to blend them in? You once complained about GV combat areas being flat and un-featured. A 1x1 especially if it is restricted to the rule of one mile between square objects limits how you create terrain for several miles around. The 2x2 tank town needs it's own island to blend in and then look at super large airfields, city and the refinery.
Post by: 8thJinx on January 04, 2018, 03:34:46 PM
Land mines?! :x
Nothing like that, although I did suggest that. What I'm referring to are different terrain features. Lots of neat stuff in development.
Post by: 8thJinx on January 04, 2018, 04:32:06 PM
8th,
Will Hitech allow me to add pitch to your flat objects so I don't have to flatten whole areas and screw the run of the topography? Ever notice all of the retro fitted 1x1 and 2x2 objects on terrains that kill the topography by leaving corner scars on hill and mountain slopes along with whomever did that didn't bother to clean up and try to blend them in? You once complained about GV combat areas being flat and un-featured. A 1x1 especially if it is restricted to the rule of one mile between square objects limits how you create terrain for several miles around. The 2x2 tank town needs it's own island to blend in and then look at super large airfields, city and the refinery.
Regarding the need to pitch land objects, I don't think that's the way to think of it. Think more along the lines of which land object can I choose to fit my terrain. I'm making families of these things. I've already played around with a few that rise up on 3 sides, and mate up with the terrain mesh in the hills behind it/to the sides of it. There isn't a restriction on elevation (Y) of the perimeter verts, just the XZ spacing. The tland objects have such perimeter elevation changes. In fact you can tile 4 of them in a square, each having (Y) vert variations. You just need to make sure they line up in XZY from land object to land object, or line up to 660 spacing with the terrain. If you have less than 660 XZ spacing along the perimeter, you get the gaps. But if they're at 660, irrespective of elevation, you don't get gaps. And it's even smoother if you maintain 660 on the next set of verts inboard.
Regarding 1x1's, I'm not focusing on them too much, and only because the 2x2's and 4x4's have more space to get crazy.
Also, while there is a 1 mile spacing requirement between bases/towns and any other square land object, I have made some other objects that I haven't even given a name yet, but they're essentially low hills and berms that can be placed in a terrain anywhere that makes sense, from a town's ring road out to the spawn (or edge of a land object). They can even straddle the perimeter of the town/base and extend into the surrounding terrain. And you can use alpha to filter terrset details on or off them. Same principle as the shore battery mounds (which in reality are a half-mile long by a third-mile wide objects).
Post by: Dundee on January 05, 2018, 11:02:19 AM
Gvers want to spawn in 500ft above the enemy field and dictate outcomes from the Klingon cloaking trees while sitting in their Lazyboy in their living rooms.
That is the ultimate GVer wet dream in this game and fortunately has only ever been setup in one or two places on a few terrains. Then becomes the whines of AH2 legend they want Hitech to wave his magic wand and recreate or they will do something like stomp their feet and hold their breath. Still dosn't mean I cannot work with that while making the scenario balanced for both sides. But, that cannot dominate the micro terrains which are constructed around every single GV spawn. And there are so many other micro features that can be produced to "balance" that wet dream feature. Just takes time to build them with what Hitech has made available to me.
When you really look at all the old AH2 wet dream features they ended up giving GVers a way to hide and snipe with impunity or sit in a high elevation hide and share lazer guided kaboom love letters at targets that most of the time couldn't get out of the way. Not much different from a run of the mill first person shooter using SOCOM weapons. And then the suicide spawn camps that went on 50 or 60 kills per individual sniper all night long in AH2. I could duplicate those and create hides for those sniper hero's of yore. Still, today I doubt the new generation of players would want to stick around for something so blatantly unfair.
Dr7 seems to have no problem with the GVDAR letting players know he is in the 3x3 next to them. He still kills everything he sets out to and lands his kills. I really wish he would come in the forums and talk about GVing, he may have some insights I can use to build GV micro terrains. Otherwise it's, I want places to hide so I'm immune to planes and other tanks while I slaughter them all with impunity and I want places to shut their feilds down from a high point. Meh.....they want to play Super Mario Bros. with bazookas.
8th,
Will Hitech allow me to add pitch to your flat objects so I don't have to flatten whole areas and screw the run of the topography? Ever notice all of the retro fitted 1x1 and 2x2 objects on terrains that kill the topography by leaving corner scars on hill and mountain slopes along with whomever did that didn't bother to clean up and try to blend them in? You once complained about GV combat areas being flat and un-featured. A 1x1 especially if it is restricted to the rule of one mile between square objects limits how you create terrain for several miles around. The 2x2 tank town needs it's own island to blend in and then look at super large airfields, city and the refinery.
Your perceptions are very narrow minded because you do not spend little or much time in a GV. A while back we had a conversation and you let it be known that your map designs were centered around containing GV movements on the map, in other words stopping long range GV movements. Killing one aspect in the game.....is still killing the game. And you wonder why people are leaving..
Post by: Zardoz on January 08, 2018, 01:43:20 PM
I fear that our days as a squad are numbered. Whether you like the new GV dar or not, and I personally do not care one way or another, there is no doubt that it pretty much eliminates long range GV'ing. And they were specialists in the extremely long range GV mission. And I don't remember avoiding any fights. We usually died spectacularly.
Most of them have already left the game, as you have probably noticed if you fly in the main arena. And most of them left quietly. I think that's too bad. It was a great bunch of unhinged fellows to hang out with and do crazy stuff, just for the fun of it. Who else would do a mission of Storches?
HiTech, I'm nobody around here, but maybe you should consider whether having the current GV dar is a good thing if a whole group of tankers just up and leaves.
Whether you liked the 49th or not, (and if you have an issue with us, give it your best shot. I have lots of suggestions for you) I feel they will be sorely missed around here, Even if only for the creative ways they could upset the applecart and give folks something to whine about.
There are still a few of us around. :salute And no matter what, [49] will always be part of my onscreen callsign.
Post by: popeye on January 08, 2018, 01:46:25 PM
Post by: bustr on January 08, 2018, 03:27:42 PM
There are 4 directions you can pull the bulldozer tool across the polygon mesh. I used to delete two of them because they didn't give smooth results and were a pain to blend in. Sunday I found a way to use them and these screen shots are the results. Anything you build for tank combat you have to drive it in a tank to see if it is even worth using. I spend more time in tanks than you would ever guess at because I have to test everything I build for the GVers in this game. And I'm getting better at emulating the AH2 tree spacing which makes for better GV combat in the MA. I used Oceania to test that on a larger scale than BowlMA.
I guess that is one of my cats in that panther testing this micro terrain and I didn't make sure placing a spawn down on top of those canyons wouldn't find a game bug Hitech would have to fix. Or, hang you up in trees at the least or dump you on one of those micro ridges and tumble your tank down the side on it's turret at the bottom. What did you think a terrain builder does, slap all this in and hope for the best? If I did that Hitech would not accept my terrains for the MA. I have to test everything I build into a terrain, so just this kind of micro terrain, there are about 39+ locations on my new terrain this will work. I guess my cat will be reaaaalllyyyyy buzy driving around for me, you thinK..... :rolleyes:
Does anyone see the bias in the polygon mesh that ends up becoming the ripple effect and all those hills and canyons? Hint: the arrow on the GV spawn is pointing south. Later on if the river is running along that bias line between a field and a spawn, I'll get to have one of those Oh crud moments and pull something else out of my whatzits..... :O This test was also to validate what the scale is hills and canyons have to be for terrain like this so tanks can fight across it. I tested many elevations for the ridges because there is a compromise to having elevation to shoot from effectively and not grinding a tank to a snail crawl climbing it and getting you killed. The equivalent in ACM of hanging on your prop too long at the top. Yes my cat did lots of testing with that panther and wrote me up a full report in meoweez.
(https://s20.postimg.org/5p08ojq4t/medtst177.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/bd6jf8k4t/medtst179.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/6raf6vqvx/medtst180.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/5p08o8d6l/medtst183.jpg)
You can see why I used Sunday to test what I did on a test terrain. There are about 39 feilds sitting on rivers I have to build and test micro terrain for. So now, I get to go back to creating the macro terrain that has to be finished before I can build and test all of the micro GV combat terrains on this 10x10 terrain. Or my cat will......
Dundee if you know so frikken much about all of this, why don't you build a terrain and save Hitech from himself and be the hero of all GVers in AH3?
(https://s20.postimg.org/4w2c3ztvh/medtst192.jpg)
Post by: serun on January 08, 2018, 04:38:56 PM
Quote
I came to this game to fly fighters. And then I met the 49th. And all about the wonderful world of vehicles in this game. They taught me so much. I'm still terrible in a tank, and I spend most of my time getting shot out of the sky, but I appreciate what they brought into my awareness about GV'ing. And we always had a good time tanking together. I will always owe them for taking me in
I fear that our days as a squad are numbered. Whether you like the new GV dar or not, and I personally do not care one way or another, there is no doubt that it pretty much eliminates long range GV'ing. And they were specialists in the extremely long range GV mission. And I don't remember avoiding any fights. We usually died spectacularly.
<S> Zardoz
I am not going to get into the whole "49ers ruining the game" debate. I do admire your squads patience and persistence in those long range gv missions. I do take issue with the statement you did not avoid any fights. I was one of many who spent inordinate amounts of time trying to find 49er tanks when you went after our strats. Many times when an aircraft darbar appeared in the sector you would scatter like a band of scalded monkeys. You would disperse and hide under the thick tree canopy and more than once were even hiding in the barns scattered around the terrain. If that is not AVOIDING combat I don't know what is.
I understand you guys were dedicated to these long range gv missions and put a lot of time and thought into what you could do without ever flashing the target. You please understand that I would much rather have been fighting(dying) aircraft vs aircraft. I suck at dive bombing in the best of times and with gvs all but invisible under the trees it was just blind luck if I did hit one of you by accident.
I am not attempting to belittle you or your squad. Many times I have heard other players call out on range vox something like "those guys know how to have fun" when one of your all Jug or all SBD missions would come in on a base to attack it. I would urge you and the other 49ers to consider that the long range gv missions that you were undeniably good at and apparently enjoyed so much are only one aspect of this wonderful game we all play. Channel the drive and creativity that allowed you to do those missions so well into other aspects of the gameplay. As they say - we are stronger with you than without you.
Hope to see you up in the un-friendly skies!
<S>HH996
Post by: Zardoz on January 08, 2018, 07:44:52 PM
That is neither here nor there. And I have no interest in the GV argument since I am more of a pilot anyway, except that most of my squad has already left because of it.
Post by: bustr on January 08, 2018, 10:59:17 PM
I really thought the 49ers would hitch up their britches and do this GV terrain work themselves because they were so vested in the GV aspect of the game. You have seen all the recent screen shots I've posted of my current micro terrain testing. It taken me 15 months of constant terrain building to produce that micro terrain out of trying to find answers to the problems GVers were presenting. Hitech was involved with his encouragement, and having a personal interest in new features like the battleship introduced with my first terrain. A new cloud engine so I could produce cloud systems for the MA, and my exploring scenarios with the new bridges.
Creating content for this game takes time, Hitech is always working on the code, and I have no idea when 8thJinx will give Hitech some GV combat objects to test for inclusion to the terrain editor. People have been constantly working to make the game better and address concerns since AH3 went live. And it's not like you couldn't find our posts updating on the work we are doing for the community. Everyone has always been welcome to present HTC with something to see if it will be accepted for inclusion to the game.
Post by: 8thJinx on January 08, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
I would add, at least for me personally, that if anyone wants to see something specific, let me know and I'll see what I can do. I'm on the AvA staff, and we're going to roll out some berms, land objects, and GV-heavy features in an AvA terrain for folks to drive around in and critique, make suggestions, etc. Hopefully by the end of January we'll have a Tank Night where we can see some of things we're working on.
Also, for others interested, there's a way to really get down and dirty and play with the terrain set features and get some really cool ideas, without affecting FR. The terrain sets are laid down in 4 mile seamless textures. You can lay down each texture, take a screen shot from the Terrain Editor, and print out a 4x4 mile square block of texture. Then you can do what I do and mark out where hills and plateaus can go, where berms might go, where anything you think might make the game fun, you can mark it up. Take advantage of the built-in textures. If you're not comfortable with using the TE, one of us can take suggestions and try it out. Send me a PM with a suggestion, and maybe I can post a screenshot of the idea. This is my hobby now, and I find it quite fun.
And Bustr is right, Hitech and Waffle and the guys are very helpful in incubating ideas, and freely sharing technical ideas on object and map creation, textures, game performance, etc. The lads at HTC want folks to have fun. But, they rely to a large degree on the community to come up with the terrains to play in.
Post by: Dundee on January 09, 2018, 03:04:44 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2018, 03:21:46 PM
See Rule #4
Post by: bustr on January 09, 2018, 03:43:04 PM
I dislike GV's because I'm an airplane fan. I also dislike poorly devised micro combat terrain for GV's when it's obvious from close inspection there are valid problems impacting Gver's enjoyment of our game. Our game and community is better for having their numbers and participation. If we loose them due to fixable problems, that will impact all of use down the road because it will influence new customer decisions.
I cannot touch the code so there are issues the GVers will have to become more persuasive than they are at this time in their arguments with Hitech. That aside, I can fix issues that exist due to poor micro terrain design with my ongoing terrain building and research into the GV game's interaction with the micro terrains. I want those player numbers in our game.
Hiding, clinging trees, what ever. 8thJinx did a cursory evaluation of the numbers I asked about of a before and after GVDAR introduction. The numbers are showing players adapted and it looks like both sides of the fight have increased their awareness of the environment due to GVDAR. GVDAR hasn't dampened one iota of the usual cast of characters who main gun skeet shoot my IL2 out of the air. And they still sneak onto airfields and greif everyone.
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2018, 04:06:22 PM
Post by: bustr on January 09, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2018, 04:17:38 PM
Ideally, they would recognize that fact that the game overall has improved and stick around. But when they threaten to quit if a tool that betters the game is not removed, then I'm happy to say "goodbye."
Post by: Ciaphas on January 09, 2018, 04:28:50 PM
1. Think of the GVdar as sentry spotting and triangulation (This is the reason you are not a small dot on the map but a small square indicating a general area).
2. Removing the ability of a single player to affect the outcome of a war (not likely but not at all impossible) has been something HiTech has been adamant about, at least from what I have read in various other threads.
You still have to mow the lawn to find a GV hidden around a base. You still have to guess on the number that are there and how to best deal with them if you do find them.
The fight is still there and the war still continues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Electroman on January 10, 2018, 05:45:47 AM
I'd rather not see players leave either.
Ideally, they would recognize that fact that the game overall has improved and stick around. But when they threaten to quit if a tool that betters the game is not removed, then I'm happy to say "goodbye."
Look pal...Its your interpretation of what has made the game "better" versus the guys who regularly GV (or used to). You're not doing anyone any favors by encouraging more BS to push players out the door. So drop it and let this thread die.
HT is obviously not changing the GVDar anytime soon so no point in arguing about it further - all you're doing now is pissing people off and putting salt in open wounds.
Post by: wil3ur on January 10, 2018, 09:26:10 AM
Look pal...
*insert Terrance and Phillip argument here*
I'm not your Pal, Buddy!
I'm not your Buddy, Guy!
:rofl :bolt:
Post by: Dundee on January 10, 2018, 02:52:25 PM
Post by: Dundee on January 10, 2018, 03:08:43 PM
Look pal...Its your interpretation of what has made the game "better" versus the guys who regularly GV (or used to). You're not doing anyone any favors by encouraging more BS to push players out the door. So drop it and let this thread die.
HT is obviously not changing the GVDar anytime soon so no point in arguing about it further - all you're doing now is pissing people off and putting salt in open wounds.
Amen brother, Amen
Post by: bustr on January 10, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
So play nice and don't shoot your eye out. People are working on this.
Devil please give them a break...... :pray
Post by: redcatcherb412 on January 10, 2018, 04:23:32 PM
Devil please give them a break...... :prayAs long as he has an uber ride he's OK.
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/055/0/10427518/il_fullxfull.701288084_8d53.jpg)
Post by: Devil 505 on January 10, 2018, 04:37:43 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on January 10, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
As long as he has an uber ride he's OK.
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/055/0/10427518/il_fullxfull.701288084_8d53.jpg)
Ha! I have more GV sorties last year than Pony sorties.
I mostly fly the 190A-5 and 109G-2. Only uber if you suck.
Post by: The Fugitive on January 10, 2018, 05:58:04 PM
See Rule #4
Look pal...Its your interpretation of what has made the game "better" versus the guys who regularly GV (or used to). You're not doing anyone any favors by encouraging more BS to push players out the door. So drop it and let this thread die.
HT is obviously not changing the GVDar anytime soon so no point in arguing about it further - all you're doing now is pissing people off and putting salt in open wounds.
When the game changed enough that "fighting" wasnt as popular as it once was the fighter guys cried about the lack of fights and many quit. The fighter guys were told to suck it up and adapt.
You guys are now in the same boat.
Im sure HTC believes that the number of players that will enjoy and use the GV dar outweigh the ones that will call it quits and leave. They are counting on the players they have and those new ones that DO come in will find that finding fight/GVs will help keep them interested in the game. If they lose some players, even long time players to the change they are ok with that. Im sure that they would rather that you stay, but they will accept a number of loses KNOWING that the change will more than cover it.
Post by: Dundee on January 10, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
When the game changed enough that "fighting" wasnt as popular as it once was the fighter guys cried about the lack of fights and many quit. The fighter guys were told to suck it up and adapt.
You guys are now in the same boat.
Im sure HTC believes that the number of players that will enjoy and use the GV dar outweigh the ones that will call it quits and leave. They are counting on the players they have and those new ones that DO come in will find that finding fight/GVs will help keep them interested in the game. If they lose some players, even long time players to the change they are ok with that. Im sure that they would rather that you stay, but they will accept a number of loses KNOWING that the change will more than cover it.
What the heck thread was this information posted on."The fighter guys were told to suck it up and adapt." <------ Did some one walk up to a burning bush and that is what was conveyed to them? Where did you get information from, and why just you
Post by: The Fugitive on January 10, 2018, 06:45:24 PM
What the heck thread was this information posted on."The fighter guys were told to suck it up and adapt." <------ Did some one walk up to a burning bush and that is what was conveyed to them? Where did you get information from, and why just you
Im not going to take the time to find the post where it was said, even tho Im sure there is more than one post on it. It was years ago. The point is HTC made a decision with the GV dar and if it causes some people to quit, they are willing to accept that. They believe that the "good" (retaining customers) of the new GV dar will out weigh the "bad" (losing customers).
So it looks like your choice is leave, or adapt to the new changes. Just like everyone else.
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2018, 06:51:12 PM
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Post by: BuckShot on January 10, 2018, 06:56:05 PM
Or...
Keep gv dar and bring back old gv icon distances.
Post by: Ciaphas on January 10, 2018, 06:57:29 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Oldman731 on January 10, 2018, 07:48:38 PM
adapt to the change
Really, doesn't this seem sensible? AH has undergone nearly countless changes. Hopefully it will implement more changes, as time goes by. We've all seen them, we've all survived them.
- oldman (Heh. I remember a leading ace quit when the hit bubble, or whatever it was, was reduced, so that he couldn't get constant kills at 600 yards. He came back.)
Post by: Skuzzy on January 10, 2018, 08:21:06 PM
It has also jumped the rails.