Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on August 17, 2008, 01:35:47 AM
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
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I'll DA with yea anytime and not run,just let me know when I'm on.
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I logged on and found both fields that had cons at them had all FHs ded. Yea. Will get caught up on some sleep I suppose.
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA
spending hours doing that reminds me of a puppy vainly trying to get the bacon the cruel kid waves too high. even a brain damaged puppy wont try for the bacon for that long :D
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Knights and Rooks had a great furball in between 27 and 8. We see 17's come in. Two FH's go down. I flame one and get shot down by a well known buff pilot. To quell the smart-arses, no, I can careless if I got shot down.
I logged in disgust. I'll never understand when folks see a GD good fight going, the first reaction is to stop it. Go bomb another field or strat target, leave the fight alone.
But yes, this game is not even close to what it used to be.
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Ya, great fight between 27 and 8... it was low though, and you tend to fly 15k+ from what I've seen, BE.
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Ditto on the fight between 27 and 8. Fun police killed hangers at both while I was on, but it only slowed it for a bit. The secret was to go in at about 4-5K and wade into the crowd. Dome really heavy duty fights from there to the deck :)
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Yea, haven't seen a good fight in the MA in some time and then when there is one, a few griefers shut it down. And the DA is dominated by score boars now, I don't remember anyone wanting to land kills in there before the welfare arena was shut down.
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DA and "furball lake" is an absolute joke. Get rid of the damn thing, it makes me ashamed of playing this game when I see the behavior in there.
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Yea, the fight between 27/8 was fun while it lasted.
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Risk assessment is part of the game in the MA, but many players take it to ridiculous levels, not engaging unless they have virtually no risk of being shot down and running at any hint of trouble. Since I can only think that many of these players are playing for rank, I guess the only thing that can be done about it is to modify the way scoring is done.
I would like to see the numbers of friendly and enemy players in the vicinity taken into account. So whenever you get a kill the FE tots up the numbers of green and red icons visible around you and uses the result as a score modifier. If there are way more green than red icons visible you get a negative modifier and vice versa.
This encourages score driven pilots to engage in riskier situations. Getting two kills in a 1v2 would be worth way more than getting two in a 4v2, which is as it should be. Those who hide in hordes or who always gangbang would suffer worse scores.
Finally anyone like me who flies mainly for the fight would be more likely to be able to find one.
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Knights and Rooks had a great furball in between 27 and 8. We see 17's come in. Two FH's go down. I flame one and get shot down by a well known buff pilot. To quell the smart-arses, no, I can careless if I got shot down.
I logged in disgust. I'll never understand when folks see a GD good fight going, the first reaction is to stop it. Go bomb another field or strat target, leave the fight alone.
But yes, this game is not even close to what it used to be.
\
Yea Mash...same the other night. We had a cv a bit off the coast with no intention of taking the base, just some good old-fashioned low alt furballing. Man it was blast until...In come the buffs to ruin the fun and about 50-60 good pilots log off.
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ya it makes no sense and it doesn't have anything to do with strat. These guys see a big bar, up bombers, kill the fh's and no one makes any attempt to capture field. Happened the other day, I was rtb, and good fight built up around that same area, by the time I got back to base, the fh's were down and several people on country congratulating themselves for the feat....which inolves nothing but taking off from another base, climbing way above the fight, and flying straight to fhs and dropping laser guided bombs with your 2 extra planes. Of course the fight I was getting back from was just a guy who was in a high 109, who as soon as he lost his alt, ran 15 miles back to his ack, proceeded to come out of it once in a while, trying to lure me into his ack. After about 10 minutes, I finally got him out. Not all that fun.
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we were lucky. all we had to do was dive into the ack to kill the VF15 guys. :D
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Knights and Rooks had a great furball in between 27 and 8. We see 17's come in. Two FH's go down. I flame one and get shot down by a well known buff pilot. To quell the smart-arses, no, I can careless if I got shot down.
I logged in disgust. I'll never understand when folks see a GD good fight going, the first reaction is to stop it. Go bomb another field or strat target, leave the fight alone.
But yes, this game is not even close to what it used to be.
IMO, the Duel Arena is what's changed the most. It used to be a respectable place where any one person could go if they wanted to find a fight. Now, all I can find in it are pickers, runners, and HO-tards.
I found ONE good fight last time I was in the DA. It was (for the most part) a 1 vs. 1, me in a P-40B, him in a P-40E.
<<S>> CRYbaby1
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Hell this is one of the best WW2 Sim's yet ...and i get into alot of fights ...i go down in flames alot but that's the fun of it. last night i had 5 aircraft on me trailing waiting for me to make a mistake i turned and tried to rattle there cage..NOW that was fun!!
50 Cents
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i had a fight last night when my connection was working that was fun till that last part.
I had tried dive bombing a cv in ju88s then i was chased back towards my base.
i lost 2 ju88s and was me 1 v 1 against i think a corsiar so i tried to dog fight him,hell i aint going with out
fight.
We turned and weaved and i got some hits on him with my little front gun and my rear guns but he got my
fuel and i was wounded. finaly my engines quit so i drop gear and went to land on the shore.
As i was landing the other guy came in a killed me all for another kill :lol he needed the 3rd to get his name in bigger lights.
but he never landed them :lol :rolleyes:
the fight was good till the last part for me.
But apart from that all i saw was hanger bangers and horde vulchers
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Ditto on the fight between 27 and 8. Fun police killed hangers at both while I was on, but it only slowed it for a bit. The secret was to go in at about 4-5K and wade into the crowd. Dome really heavy duty fights from there to the deck :)
What Guppy said is the key right here.
Take it from someone who knows how to use alt. A furball has strata, top, middle, and lower. If you fly higher than 5-8k you'll be in the top strata and will be up there with all the guys who only BnZ and run. It's much more efficient to come in at the middle strata, then do some E fighting before you end up low in the furball. The only requirement is you have to have the SA to dodge or suck down the BnZ guys above you which is usually no problem. If you try to come in high, the BnZ guys will just start coming in higher and before you know it you're chasing them around at 30k while everyone at 5k is having a complete blast furballing. It's called the, "Altitude arm's race".
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And yet, when I ask if anyone is looking for fight or wants to DA, only the same two guys respond :rofl
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Fly a faster airplane that can catch people if they try to run. :aok
If you try to come in high, the BnZ guys will just start coming in higher and before you know it you're chasing them around at 30k while everyone at 5k is having a complete blast furballing. It's called the, "Altitude arm's race".
You've been fighting the rooks? :D
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
I will totally agree.. the DA is a joke. It's full of gang tards, pickers and runners. The current DA is way worse than the MA IMHO. Whats even worse is is actually a squad in there now that dose nothing but climb to 15k so they can all gang some lone con or pick anyone they see in a fight. Then they think they are fighter gods because they land kills in the DA and the other noobs give them WTG's.
Hell me and a squad mate tried to do a private dual about a week ago and couldn't even do that, with out some noob twit coming in and interrupting.
As far as the MA.. The state of the MA I've been squeaking about that for quite some time. Skill level keeps eroding further and further because we have two many twits worried about landing 4 or 5 "easy" kills or blowing buildings in NOE surprise attacks rather than actually fighting for a hard fought for kill or base capture.
Just a simple example of how bad it's getting... Last night I went out looking for a small fight because I hate hordes. I end up finding a Huri 2 at 18k.. Tried to bait him in and next thing you know there was two 16k to 17k Nik2's and a Tempest coming in behind them.. I mean it was quite literally most of my personal list of the biggest dweeb planes in the game. Of course they wouldn't come down or fight with out all 5 of them.
I end up climbing out, because they were the only cons in the sector and managed to get one of the Nik2's by himself. By this time I had to climb to 20k and this guy was now at least 25k in a Nik2 lol. Once he finally was willing to engage by himself I liturally sent him to the tower in 3 turns it wasn't even worth my time climbing up there because the fight lasted all of about a 45 seconds.
It's why I hate flying to other bases anymore and why I pretty much just upp at bases under NOE attack or that are getting attacked by a CV. At least that way I don't have to climb to 20k to fight some con or worry so much about them running away, because they are more worried about vulching or capturing a base so it keeps them close by and gives me lots of targets.
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Fear not, school is about to start back up, and the afore-mentioned borg-cube members, who haven't been playing long enough to grasp what the game is all about, but CAN grasp that flying at 15k with 15 wingies is safe, or whording an empty base with 30 wingies, will fall by the wayside
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Fly a faster airplane that can catch people if they try to run. :aokYou've been fighting the rooks? :D
sounds like he was fighting JG11
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Ditto on the fight between 27 and 8. Fun police killed hangers at both while I was on, but it only slowed it for a bit. The secret was to go in at about 4-5K and wade into the crowd. Dome really heavy duty fights from there to the deck :)
yep, great fight last night, when the FH went down, I'd just up GV until they came back up.
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Saw I had 99 posts, want to get my 100th in. :)
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IN
b4dulock
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The fights were great all night, including escorting some of said bomber sorties. :)
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Knights and Rooks had a great furball in between 27 and 8. We see 17's come in. Two FH's go down. I flame one and get shot down by a well known buff pilot. To quell the smart-arses, no, I can careless if I got shot down.
I logged in disgust.
That was by far the best MA fight I've seen in months in terms of two sides just going at it, no base cap, no oneupmanship in terms of which group could get more alt, good solid group of like minded people killing each other.
At least until the fun-police arrived. I too logged after they dropped 27 the second time in an hour. Fun while it lasted <S>.
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That was by far the best MA fight I've seen in months in terms of two sides just going at it, no base cap, no oneupmanship in terms of which group could get more alt, good solid group of like minded people killing each other.
Amen to that Cbizkit, reminded me of the good ole days. It feels like a medieval light infantry battle, both sides charge with a battle cry, the forward ranks intermingle in the middle and the chaotic frenzy of battle consumes the combatants like a raging wildfire drawing more and more into the inferno. I play everyday just looking to recapture that adrenalin saturated feeling we had last night. It's so great when it happens, it imbues me with the strength to persevere through the monotonously boring weeks of milkhordes spraining their wrists to avoid fighting each other on the HUGE maps...
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a lot of good fights in orange tank town last night as well. And a lot of airframes scraping the industrial plant in the middle, whatever that was. Then your on the deck trying to get Scottey to give you warp fact 9 as your buzzing past the enemy wirbels. That was a lot of fun, with a lot of people showing up to fight.
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Hell this is one of the best WW2 Sim's yet ...and i get into alot of fights ...i go down in flames alot but that's the fun of it. last night i had 5 aircraft on me trailing waiting for me to make a mistake i turned and tried to rattle there cage..NOW that was fun!!
50 Cents
Don't take this as a bash, but I know you have been around a while and you kinda ticked me off about a week or so ago, being part of a group of gang tards. I'm posting this film to maybe get some to realise what is wrong with the average player base and to try get some of the veteran players to think about it. Please don't take it as a bash because it's likely we are are guilty of doing the same thing at one time or another.
I posted this film in another topic with a several others, so the film is a repost.
http://www.wargamerx.com/k4/gangtards.ahf
To give a little info on the set up.. It's late at night and there is a only two fights on the map, the giant furball hoard and this one. Essentially There was about 3 friendly aircraft flying to a Nit base and about 3/4 of a Nit Dar there defending. Of course, I know going in I'm gonna be out numbered but IMO that's at least better than being on the hoard side which is what the only other fight was.
I fly in at about 10k and do some basic BnZ type flying, not really my favorite thing to do, but hey I was out numbered and didn't want to get ganged by a bunch of low cons. Anyway Fast Forward to about 7 mins into the film.. I see a lone friendly about to get ganged so I dive in to clear his six, knowing I'll likely end up in the gangbang myself.
Sure enough he gets killed before I can clear him and that puts me at the full attention of the mini hoard. I make a dive out after a few turns to get some distance because there was 5 of you there and I had a 190 that was too close for comfort. I get what I think is a safe distance away (about 1.5k to 2.0) from the pack and decide to make a climb back up and over so I can take control of the fight.
Well, little did I know there was a sneaky Spit16 down low with some E only 1k off my six. As I pulled up and then saw him, I knew I had screwed up and was gonna be in a bit of trouble. So here I am, with 2 Spit16's (one was yours) and a Yak, Nik2 & a 190 all about to gangbang me.. Granted situation is my fault to a degree because after all it is the MA and I'm the dumb idiot at someone else's base looking for a fight. So I guess like some hot Ho in a short skirt I'm just asking for it..
I managed to kill the Nik2 and made the other other spit auger. At that point I managed to get it down to a 3 vs 1 from a 5 vs 1. Of course I tried to make breaks a few times to get the hell out of there.. Howrever that's not going to happen once you are stuck in a fight like that the odds are greatly aginst you. Even if I could have killed another one or two, there was already 2 or 3 more cons coming to pile into the gangbang.
Now what really kind of ticked me off, is with out trying to sound big headed, I quite simply ran circles around the 5 of you in a K4 on the deck at a massive disadvantage and not one of you guys sent me a <S> GF or nothing. Yet, what really irritates me is the fact that any one or two of you guys could have pulled out of that fight to give me at least a reasonable chance.
As a player that has been around a while why not pull out of the fight and give the other guy a reasonable chance? I mean hell, if I had been in the reverse situation and some lone con had out turned 4 or 5 guys like that on the deck. Well I'd have damn sure pulled off him and watched the fight and likely even let the guy go if he managed to break away. In fact I've done it countless times.
A lot of people think the K4 is uber, but I can damn sure tell you if you are in a chase situation it can be very hard to kill a con. I've had countless situations where I was the first guy on another con's six, just waiting for that perfect shot only to have two or three other green guys jump in my fight.
Even in those situations I'll almost always pull out of the fight rather than being part of the problem, I'll end up giving up what should have been my fight. Yea sure it can been fun to fight 4 or 5 cons in some situations, but when every sortie turns into the same, it's gets old real fast. When you see me acting like a A hole on CH200 calling someone a tard a gangtwit or a dweeb.... 9 times out of 10 it's because of the situation that you see in this film.
Granted we aren't going to stop noobs and general score twits or dweebs from doing it. However if the people that have played this game for a few years do it too.. Well as a community our standards have likely been lowered so much there isn't likely much hope of making things better.
Long story short.. if the community it's self doesn't atempt to raise the bar and the player standards.. well no one else is going to do it either..
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As many times as people make posts on this forum about the annoying/cheap doings going on by other pilots in the game, you'd think the posts and forum community would realize that it doesn't make a lick of difference. Granted you may be 'spreading' the word, but the only a fraction of what you see in the MA actually reads the forum. And I'll take my chances that the people you're complaining about don't even log onto this forum, period.
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Ya know, if you take the ammo down for a few bases around where you are fighting, fun police have a long way to haul bombs. 3-4 people in 15 min can fly and knock out several bases if a person has an inkling to do so.
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Fly a faster airplane that can catch people if they try to run.
Yeah! Then when you do catch em and they force the overshoot you can run away too!
Awesome! :rofl
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
I don't understand complaints about runners. There are unperked planes fast enough to catch almost anything. There are large numbers of targets that aren't so fast.
On any given night, a large percentage of the planes being flown in the MA will be Spits of various stripes, N1Ks, the odd Hurri and Zeke, etc. and so forth. They can easily be chased down by a P-51, 190 D9, F4U 1A, Yak, La 7, or many other planes on the higher end of the speed scale. Buy a Tempest and you can chase down almost everything in the MA with relative ease.
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in defense of runners. Okay, I admit, I will run and/or be timid when I encounter odds that aren't in my favor. 1vs1s, I do extend when need be but most people know I'll turn around and give it try.
True, it is just game but I like to play it smart and on my terms, especially against plane that can turn better than my pony (which is basically everything).
If that makes me considered as cowardly runner, sucks but to each their own style :salute
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The furball at 27/8 was great, about the best 4 hours I've had in this game in a while. The only reason they bomb the FH's in this instance is to tic off those having fun. HTC has said it himself, the main point of this game is to piss the other guy off. Sad but true human nature. I think it should be mandatory that ALL parents should cancel all of the game accounts they are paying for when school starts. :t Get those kids to pay attention to school.... along with the side benefits we would reap. :D
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I think it should be mandatory that ALL parents should cancel all of the game accounts they are paying for when school starts. :t Get those kids to pay attention to girls....
:aok
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Was having a great time with the whole 27/8 going on.. Too bad I got a little too excited and spoke just a hair too loudly.. Enough to wake up the baby apparently.. Wife ack was pissed...lol
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I like Greebos idea, seeing as most of my kills are overshoots in a hoarde of la7s. Not that I care about landing and the scoring system. I would have a good score on ACCIDENT!
:D
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Was having a great time with the whole 27/8 going on.. Too bad I got a little too excited and spoke just a hair too loudly.. Enough to wake up the baby apparently.. Wife ack was pissed...lol
Glad to hear I am not the only one that gets in trouble for this. :confused:
<Salute>
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in defense of runners. Okay, I admit, I will run and/or be timid when I encounter odds that aren't in my favor. 1vs1s, I do extend when need be but most people know I'll turn around and give it try.
True, it is just game but I like to play it smart and on my terms, especially against plane that can turn better than my pony (which is basically everything).
If that makes me considered as cowardly runner, sucks but to each their own style :salute
I had a guy in a run-90 the other day zip past me, take a potshot at my Spit, and then run. I got on his 6 and got a few long shots into him. I wasnt as fast, obviously, and he ran to his naval base ack and circled around while I waited for him to come out. He didnt/wouldnt.
OK so I figure the heck with it and turn back to my base. Well as soon as he saw me leave he would come zipping out, take a stupid shot, and then zip back into his ack after I worked into his 6 again. He did this 4 or 5 times. At the end I said to myself I was just going to ram him in an HO instead of prodding this guy into actually fighting.
I have no problem with somone running to their ack but dont repeatedly come out of it like a little rat and waste sombodys time like that. Had the guy actually engaged me he would have gotten somthing out of it, win or lose. And Ive learned far more from the fights Ive lost then the ones Ive won.
Its that kinda fighting that usually puts me back in a Jabo looking for a CV group. Last nights tank town battles were an exception and the dogfighting was excellent.
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i dont know guys, i cant say the same, i think the game still rocks the same today as when i first started to play in 03, now i know that dont make me some old timer, but its still quite a long time, all the things that happen now- a- days happened back then too.
last night, i had some great fights, got at least 40 killz even landed some, and thats flying lone wolf, out numbered, if you cant find a fight, i would say its you, not the game.
no offense to any one but it is very easy to find a fight. last night i was rushing with so much adrenaline i looked at my wife and held out my hand to show her the shaking, laughing, saying "this is why i fly Aces High"
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The game is only boring if you try to look at it as a air to air combat game.
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The game is only boring if you try to look at it as a air to air combat game.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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well baldegl i say this with all do respect sir, but if you dont like a tactic that WAS used in WWII then dont play the game.. Running was used to get away from the enemy and climb out to get the advantage.. As far as im concerned its just like this hoing stuff.. Its just another tactic that was used in real life.. <S> All.. Im sorry if i may have offended you or made you disagree with my opinion! :rock :salute
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I don't understand complaints about runners. There are unperked planes fast enough to catch almost anything. There are large numbers of targets that aren't so fast.
On any given night, a large percentage of the planes being flown in the MA will be Spits of various stripes, N1Ks, the odd Hurri and Zeke, etc. and so forth. They can easily be chased down by a P-51, 190 D9, F4U 1A, Yak, La 7, or many other planes on the higher end of the speed scale. Buy a Tempest and you can chase down almost everything in the MA with relative ease.
ha, that is the problem. Those are the guys that run. You could not possibly fly a P40 in the MA and hope for a fight. You will be BnZed until they out of ammo or fuel. HT may as well disable 80% of the planes in the MA since they are only there to frustrate who ever is flying them.
This is why I love the lala btw. You can't run from it, and it can put up a fight when it catches you. Really, the only thing the runner can do against it is complain about your dweeb ride even though he is in a spit 16 :rofl
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real life
Next time you get shot down, log out... Forever...
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Next time you get shot down, log out... Forever...
Even better, shoot yourself in the head every time you get a PW :rofl
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Next time you get shot down, log out... Forever...
:rofl :rofl
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Next time you get shot down, log out... Forever...
That is not half as clever as you may think. :P
So many things in this game are based on real life that if you attack that premise you undermine the whole point of why we play it.
Moreover, the whole "real-life" argument is used at will when players want to justify something, and then attacked when they want to poo-poo someone else for using that same justification. :rolleyes:
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The Rook/Knight furball at 27/8 last knight was one of the best I've seen in many nights.
Yes, it was a shame that the buffs on both sides put a damper on the fun. This game is many things to different people obviously. I'm not going to defend either side and those buff pilots, but they see a dar bar... lots of friendlies... hmmm looks like a "base take"... I'll just drop the FH's for these guys so they can take it, not realizing that there's something else going on.
One things for sure, and that is if you play this game long enough you will see alot of different stuff.
I do like Greebo's idea of revamping the scoring system. Very very interesting thoughts there.
4XTCH
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Why do people always assume that while they are fine, absolutely every other person in the universe is an idiot?
Why always attribute malicious intent to actions you don't like? I think a lot of people see AH as a simulation of WWII. Therefore, to an extent, they see the group goal as winning the war (or at least defending territory) and the individual goal as not dying. Examples:
Dropping hangers and killing off a good furball: perhaps the buffer saw a field being attacked and assumed the goal was to take the field. You say he should have asked first? How many different answers do you think he would have gotten? And why was yours the only correct one?
Dropping the CV and killing off a good furball: if someone sees a CV just offshore of his field his first assumption is that they are trying to take the field. How is he going to know that, in the chaos that is the MA, the two sides have agreed to just furball? Sure, you are just furballing but are you sure others, including the Cruiser gunners, aren't taking down the town?
Running: if the main individual goal is to live, while still forwarding the group goal, why would anyone attack from a position of weakness unless forced to? Air to air combat isn't just two planes going head to head at equal altitude. It's a chess game where you look several moves ahead and insure your target can't run away while you are free from bogies that can catch you.
I seriously doubt that the majority of players act solely to better their rank or to grief other players. Some just have goals that differ from yours.
Edit: oops, 4XTCH just said the same thing- with less words ;) Guess I should pay attention while typing ;)
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So many things in this game are based on real life that if you attack that premise you undermine the whole point of why we play it.
What was the purpose of having fighter planes in real life?
Oh yeah, last time I've seen documentary on TV. Commander was speaking to his pilots before major air battle: "Please, take care of yourselves. Your health is more important than winning the war. You have to survive no matter what. You got one life only. We can always make another war if this one goes badly..."
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That is not half as clever as you may think. :P
So many things in this game are based on real life that if you attack that premise you undermine the whole point of why we play it.
Moreover, the whole "real-life" argument is used at will when players want to justify something, and then attacked when they want to poo-poo someone else for using that same justification. :rolleyes:
Main American tactic during WW2 as a defense was to turn around and Head On your enemy. Fact is Fact.
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What was the purpose of having fighter planes in real life?
Oh yeah, last time I've seen documentary on TV. Commander was speaking to his pilots before major air battle: "Please, take care of yourselves. Your health is more important than winning the war. You have to survive no matter what. You got one life only. We can always make another war if this one goes badly..."
I for one find it boring and less of a challenge when my opponents do not try their hardest not to let me kill them.
Main American tactic during WW2 as a defense was to turn around and Head On your enemy. Fact is Fact.
Cool.
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Main American tactic during WW2 as a defense was to turn around and Head On your enemy. Fact is Fact.
It wasn't...
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It wasn't...
When an enemy was going down to BnZ you, you were supposed to turn around and HO him. Seen it on TV and read it online. I'll go dig up quotes...
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I for one find it boring and less of a challenge when my opponents do not try their hardest not to let me kill them.
If he kills you, you can't kill him. That should be the only 'defense' of your opponent.
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I for one find it boring and less of a challenge when my opponents do not try their hardest not to let me kill them.Cool.
Yup, people who really don't want to die try a lot harder once cornered. People who could care less if they die tend to do stupid things that makes killing them not nearly as difficult, fun or educational for either party.
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Seen it on TV
Yes, the best and the brightest WWII tacticians work for history channel.
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Yup, people who really don't want to die try a lot harder once cornered. People who could care less if they die tend to do stupid things that makes killing them not nearly as difficult, fun or educational for either party.
or those that just careless would ho and ram every chance!
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Yes, the best and the brightest WWII tacticians work for history channel.
They arent always right, but I dont think a whole show would be dedicated to lying about fighter tactics... :rolleyes:
But hey, you're the expert, flaming anyone on this thread with any chance you get.
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or those that just careless would ho and ram every chance!
Yup, a coin flip makes no matter to them, they just giggle, shrug it off and get a fresh plane...Rinse and repeat.
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I don't understand complaints about runners. There are unperked planes fast enough to catch almost anything. There are large numbers of targets that aren't so fast.
On any given night, a large percentage of the planes being flown in the MA will be Spits of various stripes, N1Ks, the odd Hurri and Zeke, etc. and so forth. They can easily be chased down by a P-51, 190 D9, F4U 1A, Yak, La 7, or many other planes on the higher end of the speed scale. Buy a Tempest and you can chase down almost everything in the MA with relative ease.
Its not the Niki,or the "odd" Hurri etc that are the problem.
Those aren't the ones you see running.
The biggest offenders are the other planes that you suggested. Especially the 51.
When I see a P-51, I know that I will have to run him down as he "extends" back to his base ack.
190s are pretty bad too, but not half as annoying as the 51.
I can't expect to hop in a plane (pick one) and venture forth looking for a fight without running into high alt running punks in there 51s.
Kinda limits my choices on what I can fly.
That is unless I like dodging these little girls in there runstangs all nite long.
Guys talk about "griefers" bombing CVs and ending what was an entertaining confrontation.
I submit that the 51 and 190 interjecting their sissy style of play into that situation has the same effect as someone taking out the CV.
Soooo , it looks like if I wanna play this game , I'll have to fly a LA7 or tempest, 51 or run90 to be on a somewhat equal footing with the runners.
Oh yeah, I'll have to spend half my time climbing to 15k or higher to be co-alt whith these dweebs.
I love this game, but that style of play is more than a little frustrating.
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Ya know, if you take the ammo down for a few bases around where you are fighting, fun police have a long way to haul bombs. 3-4 people in 15 min can fly and knock out several bases if a person has an inkling to do so.
The problem is, the one's in the buffs have no problem spending an hour in them.
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I submit that the 51 and 190 interjecting their sissy style of play into that situation has the same effect as someone taking out the CV.
I don't fly em, but 51's flown by good sticks like Steve or SkatSr can dogfight REAL well....190d9's...not so much. The fact that one chooses to fly them in the first place is telling.
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The game is only boring if you try to look at it as a air to air combat game.
Well said Urchin.
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When an enemy was going down to BnZ you, you were supposed to turn around and HO him. Seen it on TV and read it online. I'll go dig up quotes...
Well, you just read Bighorns response on-line also. Therefore, he must be right
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Yea Mash...same the other night. We had a cv a bit off the coast with no intention of taking the base, just some good old-fashioned low alt furballing. Man it was blast until...In come the buffs to ruin the fun and about 50-60 good pilots log off.
Same thing happens to us. A CV came close to the base, so a bunch of us upped 190F8's and porked the living crap out of about 10 or 12 airfields, killed all their ords. Had a fantastic CV fight from there on for about a good 3 hours, until some dweeblets came in 5 or 6 heavy lancs and ruined the fight.
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if Im in a pony or a 190, even a p47, your not going to have to chase me down. Im in it for the fight, and "extending" any thing more than 1.5 k only means my plane is fluttering to the ground and your flying off looking for another fight!
If your extending to your base, or until the enemy plane turns his back, your taking this game wayyyyyyyy to seriously and should look into a new past time.
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If you don't like people running from you, fly a 262. Case closed.
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Since anyone flying one of those planes trying to boom and zoom you is a horrible pilot, they are harmless to you and a non-issue.
Since Spits and N1Ks *never* run, everyone still has plenty of targets available.
Seriously though, the only time I run into difficulty with runners is when I'm tooling along in a SpitVIII or the like. Sometimes I latch onto the long six of a Mustang or similar, and low and behold, they extend away. I suppose I should be indignant and filled with anger that they did not reverse back into me and give an easy kill.
Bluntly, if you have a major problem with targets running away all the time, you are probably in a ride that trades speed for maneuverability. That is a limitation you chose to inflict upon yourself, and whether you overcome it or not is purely up to you. Perhaps guys who fly P-51s should complain that other planes turn too tightly for them to follow, its "unfair". Perhaps guys who like to fly P-40s should complain that the 109s have too much horse-power and its "unfair" how they leave them in the dust in the vertical. This would make about as much sense.
Also, it is not a matter of planes. The SpitXVIs are as likely to "extend" from a Hurri as a P-51 is from a Spit in my experience. But I don't consider this unreasonable. I've also known P-51s to run from Doras...here the point is not I suppose to win the race long term but to drag you to ack and under friendly forces. Oh well, I've learned not to chase runners who are obviously dragging me to a trap. Perhaps there would be less wailing and gnashing of teeth on the boards if everbody did the same.
Kinda limits my choices on what I can fly.
Nothing limits your choice on what you can fly. If no one in a bnz plane is attacking you, they are just scenery. If they do attack you, there is always a window for an overshoot kill. It may be short and require exceptional gunnery skills, but so what? This is similar to how the firing window to kill a much better t'n'ber in a bnz plane will often be short and require exceptional gunnery skills.
I have seen people argue that if the energy fighter takes his shot, his gunnery skills are inadequate, and he ends up with a superior angles fighter on his long six, he should reverse back into it and die. But one could also argue that if the angles fighter generates an overshoot and fails to get the kill before the energy fighter has extended, he does not deserve the kill because his gunnery skills are inadequate.
Of course, both notions are utterly false IMO, because there is no use pondering the question of "deserving" something, there is only the question of whether you can GET something. If you can build a little alt and then dive in to execute that Pony with your Spit, sucks for him, bully for you. If the Pony can get out of it by running, sucks for you, bully for him. Same thing goes for all these little complaints people like to air.
Honestly, if the opposition LIKES the way you are piloting the plane, either you are coming up on the short end of the stick a lot or the enemy is a masochist.
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Bluntly, if you have a major problem with targets running away all the time, you are probably in a ride that trades speed for maneuverability. That is a limitation you chose to inflict upon yourself, and whether you overcome it or not is purely up to you. Perhaps guys who fly P-51s should complain that other planes turn too tightly for them to follow, its "unfair". Perhaps guys who like to fly P-40s should complain that the 109s have too much horse-power and its "unfair" how they leave them in the dust in the vertical. This would make about as much sense.
Bingo. Let's start a whine fest about all of the guys who turn all the time and how it's ruining the game when we want to fly P-51s, P47s and 190D's. :aok
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Its not the Niki,or the "odd" Hurri etc that are the problem.
Those aren't the ones you see running.
The biggest offenders are the other planes that you suggested. Especially the 51.
When I see a P-51, I know that I will have to run him down as he "extends" back to his base ack.
190s are pretty bad too, but not half as annoying as the 51.
I can't expect to hop in a plane (pick one) and venture forth looking for a fight without running into high alt running punks in there 51s.
Kinda limits my choices on what I can fly.
That is unless I like dodging these little girls in there runstangs all nite long.
Guys talk about "griefers" bombing CVs and ending what was an entertaining confrontation.
I submit that the 51 and 190 interjecting their sissy style of play into that situation has the same effect as someone taking out the CV.
Soooo , it looks like if I wanna play this game , I'll have to fly a LA7 or tempest, 51 or run90 to be on a somewhat equal footing with the runners.
Oh yeah, I'll have to spend half my time climbing to 15k or higher to be co-alt whith these dweebs.
I love this game, but that style of play is more than a little frustrating.
It is not the bird ,it is the sticks that fly them,i think you find most people that fly 190's pony's and other fast birds are new so they dont know any beater,I'll fly against yea anytime in a pony and i wont ack hug or run.And i cant help but notice most of your kills are in a La7.
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Bluntly, if you have a major problem with targets running away all the time, you are probably in a ride that trades speed for maneuverability. That is a limitation you chose to inflict upon yourself, and whether you overcome it or not is purely up to you. Perhaps guys who fly P-51s should complain that other planes turn too tightly for them to follow, its "unfair". Perhaps guys who like to fly P-40s should complain that the 109s have too much horse-power and its "unfair" how they leave them in the dust in the vertical. This would make about as much sense.
If I had a nickel for everytime I've said this Bill Gates would be my housemaid.
If you are flying a slow uber turner you're going to get the living crap BnZ'd out of you guaranteed, it's what is supposed to happen. How that is surprising to people is beyond comprehension. Just as when you fly a poor turning speedster you're going to get outmaneuvered if you get in too tight, it's a core balancing truism of air combat and always has been. I have never, once ever in my entire 18 years of this ever, once heard a speedster driver complain a Spit out-turned him. But, 100 times an hour you hear the slow turny plane driver crying he was BnZ'd, outrun, rundown, left in the dust, dragged to ack or friends or whatever...It really boggles the mind...
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Nothing limits your choice on what you can fly. If no one in a bnz plane is attacking you, they are just scenery. If they do attack you, there is always a window for an overshoot kill. It may be short and require exceptional gunnery skills, but so what? This is similar to how the firing window to kill a much better t'n'ber in a bnz plane will often be short and require exceptional gunnery skills.
In a furball situation, I practically disregard anyone more than 2k above me. I keep them in my mental SA registry but that's it. If I see them taking a pass I just chop throttle and tighten a turn until they overshoot/pull-off or suck them down for a good old fashioned gang-banging. Either way, if that's all they are doing, BnZing, and you're having trouble with them you're doing something fundamentally wrong. There's only about 10 people in the game that really worry me when they are way above me simply because they have amazing aim, the rest are just amusing ornaments. I am far more respectful and wary of the lower con hiding his E, they are usually far more dangerous.
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But, 100 times an hour you hear the slow turny plane driver crying he was BnZ'd, outrun, rundown, left in the dust, dragged to ack or friends or whatever...It really boggles the mind...
I really have no problem being BnZd, run down, etc etc.
My problem is that no matter what I'm flying,if I see a 51, it is running. The 51 has become the Forrest Gump of our planeset. I can understand the 47 and 190, but the 51?
I mean c'mon, how much of an advantage do ya have to have to fight? Running from anything co-alt? :uhoh
I can't count the amount of 51s I see drop out of the stratosphere to make a high speed vulch pass on a base and then run home regardless of getting a kill or not.
The magnitude of my disdain for this type of play overwhelms me to the point of blinding rage!!
I will (knowing I will never return to my home sweet home) chase these clowns all the way back to their base, even if I have no ammo and I'm low on fuel, on the outside chance I can ram them.
As his base ack removes my plane from around me, you can hear me swearing as I throw my clipboard and any empty beer cans I have at my disposal at his so called"fighter" and plunge to my virtual demise.
Such is my hatred.
Boner
Jk--Actually P-51 hunting has actually become one of my favorite pastimes.
I just took it up and hope to get much better at it soon. :aok
Those pesky little critters sure are fast though.
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Since anyone flying one of those planes trying to boom and zoom you is a horrible pilot, they are harmless to you and a non-issue.
But they were'nt. They ran at the first sight of opposition.
Seriously though, the only time I run into difficulty with runners is when I'm tooling along in a SpitVIII or the like. Sometimes I latch onto the long six of a Mustang or similar, and low and behold, they extend away. I suppose I should be indignant and filled with anger that they did not reverse back into me and give an easy kill.
Bluntly, if you have a major problem with targets running away all the time, you are probably in a ride that trades speed for maneuverability. That is a limitation you chose to inflict upon yourself, and whether you overcome it or not is purely up to you. Perhaps guys who fly P-51s should complain that other planes turn too tightly for them to follow, its "unfair". Perhaps guys who like to fly P-40s should complain that the 109s have too much horse-power and its "unfair" how they leave them in the dust in the vertical. This would make about as much sense.
I have fought some very good P-51 pilots in a Spit. Fights that went on for a very long time in tight and turning. Today I did so in a N1K against a P-47. Some of the best P-47 flying I've seen. Likewise I've done the same in a 190A-8 against a host of mid-tier energy and turn fighters.
Learning to fight in the plane of your choice? I guess that's too much to ask huh?
Also, it is not a matter of planes. The SpitXVIs are as likely to "extend" from a Hurri as a P-51 is from a Spit in my experience. But I don't consider this unreasonable. I've also known P-51s to run from Doras...here the point is not I suppose to win the race long term but to drag you to ack and under friendly forces. Oh well, I've learned not to chase runners who are obviously dragging me to a trap. Perhaps there would be less wailing and gnashing of teeth on the boards if everbody did the same.
Extending is one thing and is reasonable. Running everytime you see an enemy is another. Wait... I guess we need to put a limit on it. Extending a couple of K is one thing. A couple of sectors is another.
I have seen people argue that if the energy fighter takes his shot, his gunnery skills are inadequate, and he ends up with a superior angles fighter on his long six, he should reverse back into it and die. But one could also argue that if the angles fighter generates an overshoot and fails to get the kill before the energy fighter has extended, he does not deserve the kill because his gunnery skills are inadequate.
See my comment above about learning how to fight.
Here are the top excuses runners always give and my retort:
"I fly to survive" Learn to survive a fight.
"I won't engage at a disadvantage" Learn to fight from a disadvantaged position.
"I won't turn with a "turny" plane" Learn your plane; you obviously don't know it.
BTW, Here were some of the match-up's last night:
P-51D running fron a P-51B
La-7 running from a Spit IX
And in the DA a C.205 running from a Spit V
Just how much disparity does it take?
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Since anyone flying one of those planes trying to boom and zoom you is a horrible pilot, they are harmless to you and a non-issue.
True on both. However, 1 or two of them are a waste of time, and 10 of them are not really harmless. One at a time, I guess it could be funny and may get a laugh depending on the mood lol
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It is not the bird ,it is the sticks that fly them,i think you find most people that fly 190's pony's and other fast birds are new so they dont know any beater,I'll fly against yea anytime in a pony and i wont ack hug or run.And i cant help but notice most of your kills are in a La7.
I agree with you 1000%
Couldn't help but notice that most of your kills are in a P-51.
Check your PMs.
I am looking forward to dueling against you and your stang.
Your pal,
Boner
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I had a great time last night, Saturday. We, Bish, took field 44 and the fight was on. Rooks sent to full dar bars to 44. I would guess we were out numbered 2 to 1. I upped an F4U1A and went at it. I fully expected to be picked by the horde but it never happened. My first victim was a b26 and the second was a b24. Then I swooped in on a p51 diving on a comrad and nailed him. We actually collided but I won the bumptard contest. Then I picked a N1k1. Then a minute later took down an F41d. There was one 51 that remained high and took one swoop at me and went back up and as far as I know never came back down. There was also a tempest that took at least one swoop at me then climbed up to about 22k and I don't think he ever came back down. In fact the tempest pretty much hung out over the action the entire time. I guess until he ran out of gas. Ended up landing 5 kills in that mess. Went up a bit later and landed 5 more kills. It was a very good night for me. There definately was action to be had.
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If I see them taking a pass I just chop throttle and tighten a turn until they overshoot/pull-off or suck them down for a good old fashioned gang-banging.
Odd, as I've always considered a simple break with or without any vertical the least aggressive and least effective defensive move if someone is diving down on your six with energy. Unless they are in a F4U and can use it's gamey tricks to prevent themselves from over shooting.
<S>...-Gixer
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But they were'nt. They ran at the first sight of opposition.
I have fought some very good P-51 pilots in a Spit. Fights that went on for a very long time in tight and turning. Today I did so in a N1K against a P-47. Some of the best P-47 flying I've seen.
Who won?
I've killed N1Ks and Spits 1v1 with the "bricks" in question. It can be done. However, if you look back and see a Spit on your long six with little to no closure in a P-51D, you are better off extending. And if you are in the typical melee, slow that Pony down too much, you are dead for any Spitfire that cares to latch on to your tail with controlled closure. (Yes, I realize a Pony at corner speed can dodge a 400mph diving Spit as easily as a Spit dodges a Pony screaming in at mach .6. But I'm not willing to bet every Spit driver in the melee is that callow.)
Likewise I've done the same in a 190A-8 against a host of mid-tier energy and turn fighters.
Sir, I mean no disrespect. I understand you are a very good pilot. None of this false modesty crap, you are well above average. But I can't believe well-trained pilots in Spits are regularly loosing duels with the 190A8. Throttle control, lag pursuit, are these things unknown in the MA?
Learning to fight in the plane of your choice? I guess that's too much to ask huh?
Extending is one thing and is reasonable. Running everytime you see an enemy is another. Wait... I guess we need to put a limit on it. Extending a couple of K is one thing. A couple of sectors is another.
My normal practice when I have good smash in an energy fighter like the the Dora and see a lone co-alt fighter like the Spit is just to merge. If they make a mistake which presents an opportunity (usually merging nose down in an attempt to HO), I'll work on them. If they know their business and end up on my long six, I'll run. It is their fight to loose.
Myself, I won't normally reverse on and continue to harass the plane that just drove me off if he decides to turn around and find something else to do. I've been on the receiving end of this: Climbing into the saddle, having the faster fighter run away, turning around to find something else to do and then having to repeat the process, SUCKS much more than if the thing just rides off into the sunset. Also, one must consider the ancient Chinese definition of insanity: Repeating the same process and expecting different results.
Normal MA environments are NOT 1v1 though and normally the thought processes involve something like keeping the speed high and not committing unless I can drag one out of range of red icons.
Here are the top excuses runners always give and my retort:
"I fly to survive" Learn to survive a fight.
"I won't engage at a disadvantage" Learn to fight from a disadvantaged position.
"I won't turn with a "turny" plane" Learn your plane; you obviously don't know it.
Sir, the primary purpose of a top speed advantage is being able to choose when to engage and disengage. If you close the disengaging option, then top speed hardly matters anymore, and the complexion of what aerial combat is like and what planes are favorable will look even less like WWII than it does now. Whether or not this would be a good thing is a subjective matter I suppose. Some planes are built to boom and zoom/E-fight, it is what they do best and are second rate at best trying to do something else. Apparently there are alot of people who are not flying these boom and zoom planes to their full potential. But their are also alot of people not flying turn and burners to their full potential. There is only one reason I can see why the former are loathed so much and the latter are not. Presumably, the latter cannot escape after they screw up, and end up being another kill for a more experienced stick. Forgive me if the complaint that too many people are refusing to let themselves be shot down strikes me as petty.
BTW, Here were some of the match-up's last night:
P-51D running fron a P-51B
La-7 running from a Spit IX
And in the DA a C.205 running from a Spit V
Just how much disparity does it take?
Sir, I can top all of those. I have seen P-51s running from my Dora. I have even had an La7 running from my 190-A5 on a couple of occasions. What is your point? I figure that if they knew how to beat me, I wouldn't be on their six watching them run away. Chasing them only leads to tears. *shrug* Live and let live.
I mean, come on, which is worse? Would those who complain about runners REALLY rather have someone in a much less maneuverable aircraft make them look like an idiot and shoot them down? That stings. What they really want is that runner to come back and become a kill for them.
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Have any of you stopped to consider the fact that some of us sometimes just don't feel like fighting? If I don't feel like fighting, I will run.
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Yossarian
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Odd, as I've always considered a simple break with or without any vertical the least aggressive and least effective defensive move if someone is diving down on your six with energy. Unless they are in a F4U and can use it's gamey tricks to prevent themselves from over shooting.
<S>...-Gixer
What trickery is that?
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Have any of you stopped to consider the fact that some of us sometimes just don't feel like fighting? If I don't feel like fighting, I will run.
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Yossarian
When I don't feel like fighting, I go fishing or something.
I don't turn on a fighting game.
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Odd, as I've always considered a simple break with or without any vertical the least aggressive and least effective defensive move if someone is diving down on your six with energy. Unless they are in a F4U and can use it's gamey tricks to prevent themselves from over shooting.
<S>...-Gixer
Ummm, I didn't say I did a flat horizontal turn...In my tactics guides I say never turn purely vertical or horizontal when avoiding a gun pass.
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Sir, I can top all of those. I have seen P-51s running from my Dora. I have even had an La7 running from my 190-A5 on a couple of occasions. What is your point? I figure that if they knew how to beat me, I wouldn't be on their six watching them run away. Chasing them only leads to tears. *shrug* Live and let live.
I mean, come on, which is worse? Would those who complain about runners REALLY rather have someone in a much less maneuverable aircraft make them look like an idiot and shoot them down? That stings. What they really want is that runner to come back and become a kill for them.
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That's one reason I love the Typhoon. Almost any plane in the set figures they have a good chance at it. I almost never get ran away on, they'll prefer to fight.
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BnZ, I suggest you go to the Help and Training forum and watch the two films Urchin posted today in the 190 thread to see what's possible in what most consider a plane that can't turn.
Once you've finished watching them, then come back and tell me how you think he did that. My bet is it wasn't by running.
Oh, and BTW, you'de think I was a n00b if you've seen my flying lately. :rofl
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
hey,
i kept getting vulched by a p38, or picked by his buddie in the 190, so i upped from another field. got there with speed and alt, and the fw was gone, but the 38 was still there vulching n picking. i dove on him, messed up the pass, and he ran. i didn't think a 38G could outrun a spit9?
on the good side of that, that let more guys get airborn for the defense of the base
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That's one reason I love the Typhoon. Almost any plane in the set figures they have a good chance at it. I almost never get ran away on, they'll prefer to fight.
And it seems to have good elevator authority at very low speed... After a high yo-yo I was about to make a guns pass on a typhy below me that was in the middle of a hard, flat turn. Instead he just turned straight up in anticipation of a head-on, :eek: fortunately I saw what he was up to and pulled away.
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For the most part I don't care what style of play that some one chooses runs,Ho's,picks,gangs, what ever! It's what makes the game for me so good you just never know what the other guy is going to do.
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If you're going to fight, then fight. If you don't want to fight, run away & keep running all the way home. Those that run for 2 sectors clear out of icon range & then reverse back after the other guy gives up, over & over & over are spineless jellyfish & should find another hobby. What kind of fun can it be to never take a risk? You may learn something. How anyone can defend this type of play is beyond me.
I don't mind the b&z'ers too much. It's the ones that I just described that are a cancer in this game.
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If you're going to fight, then fight. If you don't want to fight, run away & keep running all the way home. Those that run for 2 sectors clear out of icon range & then reverse back after the other guy gives up, over & over & over are spineless jellyfish & should find another hobby. What kind of fun can it be to never take a risk? You may learn something. How anyone can defend this type of play is beyond me.
I don't mind the b&z'ers too much. It's the ones that I just described that are a cancer in this game.
Again I will say the same thing you just never know what the other person is going to do.
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Actually P-51 hunting has actually become one of my favorite pastimes.
Well next time you are in the MA and see my name on the roster, give me a shout. I'll tell you where to find one. :aok
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Yes, the best and the brightest WWII tacticians work for history channel.
Actually i did see a US ww2 pilot say on Discovery that they used the HO tactic several times against the more nimble and undergunned zeke over in the far east. They always won the HO.
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Ummm, I didn't say I did a flat horizontal turn...In my tactics guides I say never turn purely vertical or horizontal when avoiding a gun pass.
And I never said a flat turn, I said any type of break/turn with or without any vertical element in it, whether slightly diving or climbing. Your giving all the advantage to the attacker to just preform a hi or low yo yo and still maintain an easy advantage over you if you keep going for turns as defensive ACM when there are options to try reverse situation maintain E and be more aggressive.
<S>...-Gixer
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http://www.p47pilots.com/P47-Pilots.cfm?c=incP47BiographyHome.cfm&vm=BIO&pilotid=80&p=Joseph%20P.%20Celauro This fellows only encounter with an enemy plane was a 262 they both made two Ho passes & on the second pass got some hits on an engine of the 262. With that the 262 broke off. I always enjoy talking to him always has great stories to tell.
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Again, the same ol' kind of "vet crap".
The n00bs and mediocre people have to 'learn' from the vets by committing themselves to fights they cannot win... and whatever measures the meager folk could, to the best of their own limited capabilities, is something to be abolished, since the "vets" need to have fun shooting gaggles of fighters down every single sortie in their proud ol' "not so superplane", so they can feed their egos that run deeper than the Mariana Trench.
Fate is not without a twist of irony, since there have been a variety of suggestions concerning the MA, which might have changed things a bit.
* Some people have suggested moving fields further apart, so it actually takes some time to run to safety, instead of being able to just pointing nose-down and run away at 380mph @ deck for 2 minutes and reach the safety of the home field... but nooooo, everyone wants to just get up, climb to 10k-ish in 2 minutes and then immediately enter the fray.
* Some people have suggested rolling-planesets, in which case most earlier model planes would have less of a performance disparity, often more lightly armed and takes lots more maneuvering and fighting and thus, increasing the chance of finding good, fun, furballs.... but noooooo, no one wants to give up their favorite plane even for a couple of days.
* Some people have suggested perking the higher tier planes of each countries set lightly, so the arena numbers can be slightly forced into less super-planes, and more mid-war planes.. but nooooooo, this is against the freedom of the people.
* Some people have suggested a variety of changes to either the MA strat-mechanics, so subtle but constant effects in the course of the 'war' will effect the variation of the MA plane types, either by attrition or by logistics... but nooooooooo, its too complicated and their brains would explode.
...and on and on and on and on..
Frankly, the people that have grown disgruntled about all the "runners", have brought it down upon themselves. On one hand, vets go about saying 'fly anything you like, in the way you like it', but when people really do fly what they like, in the way they like it, vets hate it.
Well, good luck in your crusade to make people fly in the way you want them to !
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And yet, when I ask if anyone is looking for fight or wants to DA, only the same two guys respond :rofl
:aok
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Again, the same ol' kind of "vet crap".
The n00bs and mediocre people have to 'learn' from the vets by committing themselves to fights they cannot win... and whatever measures the meager folk could, to the best of their own limited capabilities, is something to be abolished, since the "vets" need to have fun shooting gaggles of fighters down every single sortie in their proud ol' "not so superplane", so they can feed their egos that run deeper than the Mariana Trench.
Fate is not without a twist of irony, since there have been a variety of suggestions concerning the MA, which might have changed things a bit.
* Some people have suggested moving fields further apart, so it actually takes some time to run to safety, instead of being able to just pointing nose-down and run away at 380mph @ deck for 2 minutes and reach the safety of the home field... but nooooo, everyone wants to just get up, climb to 10k-ish in 2 minutes and then immediately enter the fray.
* Some people have suggested rolling-planesets, in which case most earlier model planes would have less of a performance disparity, often more lightly armed and takes lots more maneuvering and fighting and thus, increasing the chance of finding good, fun, furballs.... but noooooo, no one wants to give up their favorite plane even for a couple of days.
* Some people have suggested perking the higher tier planes of each countries set lightly, so the arena numbers can be slightly forced into less super-planes, and more mid-war planes.. but nooooooo, this is against the freedom of the people.
* Some people have suggested a variety of changes to either the MA strat-mechanics, so subtle but constant effects in the course of the 'war' will effect the variation of the MA plane types, either by attrition or by logistics... but nooooooooo, its too complicated and their brains would explode.
...and on and on and on and on..
Frankly, the people that have grown disgruntled about all the "runners", have brought it down upon themselves. On one hand, vets go about saying 'fly anything you like, in the way you like it', but when people really do fly what they like, in the way they like it, vets hate it.
Well, good luck in your crusade to make people fly in the way you want them to !
Spoken like a true realist, you got my vote Kweassa
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Frankly, the people that have grown disgruntled about all the "runners", have brought it down upon themselves. On one hand, vets go about saying 'fly anything you like, in the way you like it', but when people really do fly what they like, in the way they like it, vets hate it.
I am absoluteley convinced that the "fly what you like" proponents and the BBS & CH200 "the game has degraded / nobody fights / lame runnerz" whiners are mostly not the same people.
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...... they also say "How can you learn to fight if your always running away from a fight?"
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
Welcome to the new AH
Things have went down hill since HT closed the freeloader arenas (H2H)
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And it seems to have good elevator authority at very low speed... After a high yo-yo I was about to make a guns pass on a typhy below me that was in the middle of a hard, flat turn. Instead he just turned straight up in anticipation of a head-on, :eek: fortunately I saw what he was up to and pulled away.
Well the Typhoon has a big engine and very good acceleration as well, that's probably what you're witnessing. It's not a very good "nose-up" fighter generally as it gets unstable pretty quickly at low speed. Most pilots in almost any plane in the set figure they can beat it, so it gets a lot of action compared to stuff like the La7, SpitXVI, Niki, etc...Specifically German planes like the 109 and 190 that typically run from those top rides will almost always stay and fight a Typhoon.
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Well next time you are in the MA and see my name on the roster, give me a shout. I'll tell you where to find one. :aok
Great add me to your list. :devil
<S>...-Gixer
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BnZ, I suggest you go to the Help and Training forum and watch the two films Urchin posted today in the 190 thread to see what's possible in what most consider a plane that can't turn.
Once you've finished watching them, then come back and tell me how you think he did that. My bet is it wasn't by running.
Oh, and BTW, you'de think I was a n00b if you've seen my flying lately. :rofl
I've seen 190tnb vrs. "insert ridiculous mismatch here" done by the very best Bald. I've done it myself, with occasional success. It is still a lousy bet. How do I say this correctly...When it only results in victory and RTB for one of the best sticks in the game maybe 50% of the time, that is not good enough for me.
You know, I'd like you to do me a favor. Take your 190A8 to the MA, and proceed to pick co-alt fights with
two or more Spits, or the like planes. Keep track of the statistical results of your sorties. If you can show me a consistent trend of RTBing with two or more kills 90% of the time or better after engaging in these situations, then I will be in the TA with you every day learning your wisdom. If you cannot, I will stand by my statement that it is better, when flying a 190, to run from that Spit on your six with controlled closure, if possible, than to attempt to pull something "cute". (Except in the TA, of course, which is the place to learn "envelope pushing", rather than learning by giving gomers in the MA easy kills.)
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Well next time you are in the MA and see my name on the roster, give me a shout. I'll tell you where to find one. :aok
Sounds good to me Steve.
I'll be looking forward to it. :aok
If you'd like to set something up in the DA, you can always PM me.
Or you can just give me your location and alt in the MA , and I'll come right on over.
Thanks for the offer.
Boner
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I've seen 190tnb vrs. "insert ridiculous mismatch here" done by the very best Bald. I've done it myself, with occasional success. It is still a lousy bet. How do I say this correctly...When it only results in victory and RTB for one of the best sticks in the game maybe 50% of the time, that is not good enough for me.
No bnz, that's his whole point. For baldeagl, whether or not you're a favorite to win with these tactics against competent opposition is not supposed to matter; you're supposed to do it anyway.
* Some people have suggested rolling-planesets, in which case most earlier model planes would have less of a performance disparity, often more lightly armed and takes lots more maneuvering and fighting and thus, increasing the chance of finding good, fun, furballs.... but noooooo, no one wants to give up their favorite plane even for a couple of days.
RPS!!! :aok
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Sounds good to me Steve.
I'll be looking forward to it. :aok
If you'd like to set something up in the DA, you can always PM me.
Or you can just give me your location and alt in the MA , and I'll come right on over.
Thanks for the offer.
Boner
hey boner, help me out here buddy because I'm not quite sure how a duel like that would work. are you and steve going to meet in the center and then both run to ack, whoever gets to the ack first wins or will you two take turns chasing each other to ack?
in any event I'd love to see this fight.
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hey boner, help me out here buddy because I'm not quite sure how a duel like that would work. are you and steve going to meet in the center and then both run to ack, whoever gets to the ack first wins or will you two take turns chasing each other to ack?
in any event I'd love to see this fight.
As always, its such a pleasure to hear from you again storch.
Parolee--now THATS funny!!
Your biggest fan,
Boner
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why thank you boner! now about my question?
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why thank you boner! now about my question?
Oh! that was actually a "serious" question? As I now remember some of your statements from past encounters, I suppose I should have known better.
Well I'm sure Steve and Sunka would agree with me that we wouldn't want to let you down,and we will most certainly run from each other just for your amusment.
With the utmost admiration,
Boner
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If I had a nickel for everytime I've said this Bill Gates would be my housemaid.
If you are flying a slow uber turner you're going to get the living crap BnZ'd out of you guaranteed, it's what is supposed to happen. How that is surprising to people is beyond comprehension. Just as when you fly a poor turning speedster you're going to get outmaneuvered if you get in too tight, it's a core balancing truism of air combat and always has been. I have never, once ever in my entire 18 years of this ever, once heard a speedster driver complain a Spit out-turned him. But, 100 times an hour you hear the slow turny plane driver crying he was BnZ'd, outrun, rundown, left in the dust, dragged to ack or friends or whatever...It really boggles the mind...
I agree to this 100%
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I've seen 190tnb vrs. "insert ridiculous mismatch here" done by the very best Bald. I've done it myself, with occasional success. It is still a lousy bet. How do I say this correctly...When it only results in victory and RTB for one of the best sticks in the game maybe 50% of the time, that is not good enough for me.
You know, I'd like you to do me a favor. Take your 190A8 to the MA, and proceed to pick co-alt fights with
two or more Spits, or the like planes. Keep track of the statistical results of your sorties. If you can show me a consistent trend of RTBing with two or more kills 90% of the time or better after engaging in these situations, then I will be in the TA with you every day learning your wisdom. If you cannot, I will stand by my statement that it is better, when flying a 190, to run from that Spit on your six with controlled closure, if possible, than to attempt to pull something "cute". (Except in the TA, of course, which is the place to learn "envelope pushing", rather than learning by giving gomers in the MA easy kills.)
I wish I still had my old films from when I used to fly the 190A8. I used to get that thing on the deck quite often. It maynot turn great but the 190 has awesome roll rates and that can be used to it's advantage.
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You know, I'd like you to do me a favor. Take your 190A8 to the MA, and proceed to pick co-alt fights with two or more Spits, or the like planes. Keep track of the statistical results of your sorties. If you can show me a consistent trend of RTBing with two or more kills 90% of the time or better after engaging in these situations, then I will be in the TA with you every day learning your wisdom. If you cannot, I will stand by my statement that it is better, when flying a 190, to run from that Spit on your six with controlled closure, if possible, than to attempt to pull something "cute". (Except in the TA, of course, which is the place to learn "envelope pushing", rather than learning by giving gomers in the MA easy kills.)
I've already done that over and over. Here's a post from the 190 thread in the Help and Training Forum:
I took an A8 out for a spin yesterday and was reminded that once you get it behind someone there is virtually no escape for them.
As long as you're not too close any defensive manouver can be countered with a quick roll into their flight path for a snapshot. This actually minimizes the turning required.
Of course you have to be good at snapshots and deflection shooting but it only takes one or two 30mm's to finish the job.
I fought an F4U (snapshot kill), a Typh (a draw and both of us withdrew), a P-38 (killed by a countryman), a Dora (who I killed from his six as he tried to run) and a Spit (who I eventally HO'd) yesterday. In each case these were turning contests that mostly went several rounds but in each case I held speed/E throughout, never sounding the stall buzzer. I also killed a B-26 and got assists on two others. All of this on one sortie.
Now I remember why I love the A8 so much. It is an awsome airplane.
My K/D rate in the A8 is historically between 4 and 6 against all types of opponents (fighters and buffs included).
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...... they also say "How can you learn to fight if your always running away from a fight?"
exactly..
When I started this game, I went into every fight I could find knowing I likely wouldn't live or land, but I did it to learn to fight better.
Hell the start of this tour, the very first night, there was a K4 stick using a shade name that was one of the older sticks who had quit the game in the past. I went out and fought him about 8 sorties in a row and died every single time fighting him. Not one time did I run from him and a few times I was at a disadvantage knowing I'd likely die but I still fought anyway.
I learned a bit, but mostly I learned that I had become lazy from the typical fights we have in the MA. If I had ran from the fights I sure wouldn't have learned that I needed to pick up my game another notch.
I guess it comes down to the point that some people want to work to get better and devlope their skills, while others just want things the easy way.
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I like Greebo's idea.
Maybe adjust the scores so that the low end planes make huge rank andthe high ends make next to nothing as far as rank goes. (Much more so than it is now)
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I am absoluteley convinced that the "fly what you like" proponents and the BBS & CH200 "the game has degraded / nobody fights / lame runnerz" whiners are mostly not the same people.
Yep.
ack-ack
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I've already done that over and over. Here's a post from the 190 thread in the Help and Training Forum:
My K/D rate in the A8 is historically between 4 and 6 against all types of opponents (fighters and buffs included).
If you are getting 4-6 k/d by beating spits at their game, co-e turning below 300mph or so, then you must not be merely good, you must be completely incredible. Or the average Spit driver must be worse than I thought.
Since you mentioned Urchin's films, I just finished watching the first one. I saw him fighting a HORRIBLE Spit pilot. Not a mediocre one, not a bad one, one who makes just about every mistake possible. Who the hell tries to HO a 190A in a Spit? This Spit pilot had a zipcode for a handle and quite possibly hasn't played long enough even to get his views set up. Note that this is NOT intended as an insult towards Urchin, because the plane he is fighting has such an advantage in this particular situation that beating even a two-weeker here is spectacular. Because the 190 does not have the turn rate to track at all at these kinds of speeds, the only shots he got at the Spit were incredibly high difficulty snapshots that most of us mere mortals cannot hope to count on. Perhaps TrackIr makes them a little easier, perhaps not, I have no experience with that device.
Then additional gangtards join the fight and Urchin makes them look like idiots...for a few seconds, before the inherent disadvantages of his plane plus their numbers add up and he gets shot down. His "reward" for having the skill to embarass a Spit with E on him while flying a 190-A5 is no kill on the Spit and being shot down by someone he could probably kill in two turns in a more balanced situation. Sorry Sir, this is NOT the result I'm looking for. And Urchin is an AMAZING pilot compared to most. If anything, this film supports my ideas about how to engage...if Urchin had been flying a Dora using E tactics, he probably could have teased/drug zipcode well away from any possible help, then leisurely clubbed him to death while he hung up beneath, then been free to hunt down a few more.
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Oh, I already added that caveat lol.
Please note that part of my problem is my aim sucks. It used to be much better. If I can hold any sort of interest in the game it'll improve again.
But you are right, all of the pilots in those clips are awful.
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Furballing 190s otd it's all luck. Run into a good spit pilot, and he'll take you down pretty quick. If you run into a buncha new players then you usually win.
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Please note that part of my problem is my aim sucks. It used to be much better. If I can hold any sort of interest in the game it'll improve again.
BS buddy! You hit something flashing across 3 viewing areas (up, up forward, forward) at 90 degrees in the twinkling of an eye. Does TrackIR make it easier? I can't imagine such a shot will ever be truly "easy" though. I can generate the same kind of scissoring situation often enough, but hitting the shot more than once in a blue moon is the difficult part for me.
Another problem I have when I've tried to use some sort of pirouetting/low yo-yo geometry to "cut a t'n'ber off at the pass" for a shot, is that if they are into the whole M.A.D. thing, they can often just turn a little harder and generate a nose-to-nose remerge. I don't shoot well enough to win HOs, and even if I did, "You have shot down____" followed by having to land because my oil is out isn't my idea of fun.
I loved that second film. Especially the kill on the Tempest. Seriously though man, why don't you fly in such a way as to give yourself an even break and brutalize+terrorize that frickin' DA lake or the MA for that matter? It is what I'd do if I had your skills.
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Furballing 190s otd it's all luck. Run into a good spit pilot, and he'll take you down pretty quick. If you run into a buncha new players then you usually win.
This is a point we've been making in several threads lately that bears repeating. AKAK said it best when he said, "Just because I outmaneuvered a Zeke in my P38 , doesn't mean the P38 is a more maneuverable plane, it just means the Zeke pilot had no clue what he was doing".
Certain match-ups, given equal skill, are just hardcoded in favor of one plane or the other, especially once E states are equalized.
For example, the La7 and the Typhoon...Other than the gun package, the La7 is absolutely better at absolutely everything in every respect by a healthy margin. I should not be able to beat an equally skilled La7 pilot in a Typhoon Co-E/Co-Alt. If I do I either got a lucky low % shot off or the La7 driver made some kind of terrible mistake. If I enjoy continued success against La7's in my Typhoon it is only because the La7 pilots I am fighting are inferior skill-wise, because the plane itself is superior in almost every way conceivable.
So, pulling out your ratio of kills vs deaths vs. any given plane type with another is really quite meaningless. Especially if you are in the 50% or higher skill demographic. The higher your relative skill compared to the average dweeb, the more meaningless your ratio of success is in terms of statistical relevance.
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BS buddy! You hit something flashing across 3 viewing areas (up, up forward, forward) at 90 degrees in the twinkling of an eye. Does TrackIR make it easier? I can't imagine such a shot will ever be truly "easy" though. I can generate the same kind of scissoring situation often enough, but hitting the shot more than once in a blue moon is the difficult part for me.
Another problem I have when I've tried to use some sort of pirouetting/low yo-yo geometry to "cut a t'n'ber off at the pass" for a shot, is that if they are into the whole M.A.D. thing, they can often just turn a little harder and generate a nose-to-nose remerge. I don't shoot well enough to win HOs, and even if I did, "You have shot down____" followed by having to land because my oil is out isn't my idea of fun.
I loved that second film. Especially the kill on the Tempest. Seriously though man, why don't you fly in such a way as to give yourself an even break and brutalize+terrorize that frickin' DA lake or the MA for that matter? It is what I'd do if I had your skills.
The difficult part of fighting in a 190 IS hitting the shot. You will usually get at least one shot, even if the other guy knows what he is doing. If the guy doesn't really know what he is doing you may get more, but usually you have to take what you can get.
Regarding the "MAD" - you are basically taking advantage of the fact that people WILL go for the shot no matter what. The only way a 190 can angles fight with any success at all is by going nose to nose and taking advantage of a speed differential (i.e. you fly very slow, and even though the other plane is a better turner, they will fly out in front of you).
The reason I fly a 190 like that is because I think it is fun, and I get good practice. I could (and have) take a Spixteen and get 10-12 kills in the DA lake.... but it isn't challenging, so it isn't fun. I'm not a huge fan of the hording gameplay in the MAs, so I don't usually go in there.
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If you are getting 4-6 k/d by beating spits at their game, co-e turning below 300mph or so, then you must not be merely good, you must be completely incredible. Or the average Spit driver must be worse than I thought.
I didn't say I was getting those numbers fighting only Spits and only below 300 mph. I specifically said it was against all types of opponents including both fighters and buffs. Did you not understand that?
You are still missing the point. How will someone ever learn how to push the limits of their aircraft and learn to fight if all they ever do is run at the first sign of an opponent? Please offer your wisdom.
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the game is awesome, i say this as a man deprived of a computer to play it. you dont know what youre missing. life without ah is darker. you all love this game so much you cant see the woods for the trees.
i would pay double subscription just for 1 hour flying with my friends right now.
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You are still missing the point. How will someone ever learn how to push the limits of their aircraft and learn to fight if all they ever do is run at the first sign of an opponent? Please offer your wisdom.
Um, the TA?
And I'm not saying run at the first sign of a fight. And I suppose you are not saying never, ever run. So I suppose we are both not treating each other quite fair by framing these posts as if that is being said.
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the game is awesome, i say this as a man deprived of a computer to play it. you dont know what youre missing. life without ah is darker. you all love this game so much you cant see the woods for the trees.
i would pay double subscription just for 1 hour flying with my friends right now.
We need to start a fund to buy Batfink here a kick-ass AHII computer.
Even I'll admit the dude is a flippin' artist in this game. You wouldn't let a Van Gogh starve in the street.
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i have to agree this game is not as fun as it use to be
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a most outstanding suggestion BnZ! :D
we can all dream. lucky for me the weather is good for now. as to your compliment, thank you indeed, but i would possibly liken it more to a construction worker with a feather light flying power drill than vangogh
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You are still missing the point. How will someone ever learn how to push the limits of their aircraft and learn to fight if all they ever do is run at the first sign of an opponent? Please offer your wisdom.
Anyone who truly does that is going to be so grossly ineffective that you're wasting your time by even giving them a second thought. People who fly one plane or a short list of a few planes for an extended period know exactly where the limits are of the aircraft even if the discovery is purely accidental over time with experience.
For example, I don't need to repeatedly accept invitations from Zekes to knife fight my Typhoon Co-E/Co-Alt to reinforce what I already know about the "edge" of my aircraft.
The more familiar people get with a plane the more adventurous they will tend to become in order to get more kills per unit time. Also, some people experiment with aircraft they are not only unfamiliar with, but the characteristics of it are in direct contradiction to their style and personality driven proclivities. People with a feeling of a "Duck out of water" are going to either be overly reckless or overly cautious depending on the individual and the plane.
The other huge factor some don't consider is the plane they are flying and how high they fly it. If you fly a Spit or Niki (insert your hyper-modelled ride here) at 15k+ you'd have a better chance of pulling a golden nugget out of a recently squeezed steaming turd than finding someone who won't run from you. But, if you fly a non-uber ride at a reasonable altitude very few other planes & pilots will decline to engage you. I can speak from personal experience that if you fly a mediocre plane like the Typhoon under 10k you will magically cease to have the problem of people refusing to engage you, I promise. Examples of some other planes that fit into that mediocre'ish category relative to the "ubers" would be; F6F, P38, 205, Ki-61, 109s & 190's, Jugs, etc...Anyone who flies an "uber" ride relatively high gets no sympathy from me when they cry about people running from them.
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damn this thread is always popular as the "hey 190 pilots" thread !
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:rofl
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After reading some of the comments on the 190s in here, I decided to take one out for ride.
I picked the A8.
Wow!! Pretty fast, the roll rate was great, and holy chiz!! The guns!!
I plowed through a furball with guns blazings and actually got a few kills in one pass!! lol
Also did a few 1v1s and found it to be alot fun too!!
But quickly discovered that even when working the throttle, its not much of a turner.
Gonna try to learn to fly this plane.
Having flown it only a couple times, I can understand the attraction to this plane, but still don't understand why alot(not all) of guys run away in it.
Boner
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After reading some of the comments on the 190s in here, I decided to take one out for ride.
Having flown it only a couple times, I can understand the attraction to this plane, but still don't understand why alot(not all) of guys run away in it.
In an A8 you want to keep your E at all costs, it stands almost no chance in a duel against the usual uber rides. I has a pretty low deck speed but a correct energy conservation, so you do want to zoom whenever you can in order to survive against the horde.
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I've gotten pretty good with the A8. Yup BnZ all the way.
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
Getting back to the original post.
For all you experts, old timers, AHIIgods etc. who cannot seem to find whatever so called good fight your looking for, I have a question.
How much time have you put into the community giving any kind of meaningful instruction and mentoring to new players? I mean here you all are, skilled beyond (whatever) and complain about newbs who run?
In a little over a year now, I can finally hold my own. Mainly because of training I have recieved from the likes of Kilz, Knuckles, Jeb, etc. I also now pass on to the new guy by the way. Maybe if we spent more time seeking out the new guy who is willing to learn and train him properly and correctly instead of criticing, chastizing, and putting down the newb runner? The community would be a better place? I dunno. Just an idea.
Maybe I am still so new I don't understand all the angst of these posts. I appologize for still being new and not understanding the AH of old.
I just think that you need to understand that this game is so complex the new guy doesnt even know what he doesnt even know.
Maybe approaching whoever it is that didnt fly to your so called standards, you might want to see if they want a little help in becomming a better turn fighter or BnZ guy, or hopefully BOTH! :)
:salute
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Fear not, school is about to start back up, and the afore-mentioned borg-cube members, who haven't been playing long enough to grasp what the game is all about, but CAN grasp that flying at 15k with 15 wingies is safe, or whording an empty base with 30 wingies, will fall by the wayside
The sad thing is its not the "kids" doing it anymore, the truth is there are alot of seasoned players doing this also for the "points" or "rank".
There are some supposodly "good sticks" (at least thats what the ranking/points gods say) out there in the MA that are good at throwing the sheep to the wolves so the feeding can begin, they are only fooling themselves, we know who they are and we all have seen it so many times.
Just the other day, I watched a huge group of guys come in at strato alts, picked anything that tries to at least give them a fight and when enough guys eventually got up to even out the numbers any surviving planes high tailed it out of there to land the kills they just picked.
You got to ask yourself, who are they fooling more than anyone? Its the newbs they brought with them to send down as bait so they can take advantage of them not knowing any better, the ones that were landing all the spectacular kills were the Seasoned players that could only do this with the sacrificial bait they had used.
When I catch these "awesome" players alone, usually they are no match, since they dont have the dozen guys zooming your six to save them, and yes they run, fast and hard to the nearest base or help they can find.
I dont care about my score whatsoever and probably die more than not, I will run my plane out of gas chasing them if need be. However, I have noticed for some reason my score has actually gotten better this tour for one reason, through the frustration of what has been going on lately and tactics used by these score whordes, I have been doing what I like to call "HeadHunting", when I find a group of picktards looking for the easy kills, I actively and relentlessly pursue them until they just get tired of getting shot down in thier uber rides, like Temps, 51's, LA's, I look for the "Runners" that get the kills to take home since these are the ones that will do anything to get away so their Precious score wont get affected.
I Vote "yes" to Headhunting, works for me. :D
So to you guys that fit this bill of hiding in your horde or running as fast as you can to the deck when you run out of sacrificial lambs, the guy on your six could be "Daddy", I will not give up or give you any respect: if your RTB, out of fuel or ammo, trying to land, going for the ack, AFK,,, wont bother me a bit to add you to my list.
<S>
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Getting back to the original post.
How much time have you put into the community giving any kind of meaningful instruction and mentoring to new players? I mean here you all are, skilled beyond (whatever) and complain about newbs who run?
Lets see, hours? days? weeks? Months? How about you? How many times have you asked for help and got refused? Or should I maybe asking who needs help every time I log in?
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All I did tonight was chase runners. Finally, exasperated after a couple hours of this I went to the DA to find a fight and all I found in the furball area were more runners.
What a joke.
"BORING" to you. Beat the burnout.. Go unload on another hobby... And then come back fresh, and ready to apreciate the game for what it is.
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I don't fly em, but 51's flown by good sticks like Steve or SkatSr can dogfight REAL well....190d9's...not so much. The fact that one chooses to fly them in the first place is telling.
Is telling what?
That because someone flys a 190 that there a dweeb?
No maybe I like the history behind the 190, or its fantastic rate of roll. But you cant single out a certain aircraft and say "Ok you fly a 190 your a dweeb", look at snailman. Hes probably one of the best sticks in the game, And yet he fly's a 190. So what? Maybe you shouldnt paint with such a broad brush, and remember ITS THE PILOT, NOT THE PLANE
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spit-16 chasing 190? I almost don't feel bad for 190s
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Lets see, hours? days? weeks? Months? How about you? How many times have you asked for help and got refused? Or should I maybe asking who needs help every time I log in?
:salute Keep up the good work.
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For all you experts, old timers, AHIIgods etc. who cannot seem to find whatever so called good fight your looking for, I have a question.
How much time have you put into the community giving any kind of meaningful instruction and mentoring to new players? I mean here you all are, skilled beyond (whatever) and complain about newbs who run?
The older players DO help the ones who are willing to learn, they pick and choose with no fanfare. Problem is most of these newer players want instant gratification and are unwilling to spend the time to learn. Vets don't like wasting their time teaching someone who is unwilling to even read the basic help files.
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Is telling what?
That because someone flys a 190 that there a dweeb?
No maybe I like the history behind the 190, or its fantastic rate of roll. But you cant single out a certain aircraft and say "Ok you fly a 190 your a dweeb", look at snailman. Hes probably one of the best sticks in the game, And yet he fly's a 190. So what? Maybe you shouldnt paint with such a broad brush, and remember ITS THE PILOT, NOT THE PLANE
I totally agree!
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The older players DO help the ones who are willing to learn, they pick and choose with no fanfare. Problem is most of these newer players want instant gratification and are unwilling to spend the time to learn. Vets don't like wasting their time teaching someone who is unwilling to even read the basic help files.
Roger that. Then help me out. What is it I am missing here about all this strife the old timers are having? With all due respect here, AND I DO MEAN JUST THAT. What was so great about the AH of old. What was so different? I really do not know and Im trying to understand what you and the others here are complaining about. Im still new with only a year total under my belt. :confused: I guess I dont find this game boring at all. And I am like :rolleyes: WHAT? Boring?
Thanks so much!
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Problem is there are too many new players for the Vets to train properly. This game got too popular too quick. HTC should never have started to advertise on TV in my opinion.
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Problem is there are too many new players for the Vets to train properly. This game got too popular too quick. HTC should never have started to advertise on TV in my opinion.
What kind of business mentality is that Xargos!
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After reading some of the comments on the 190s in here, I decided to take one out for ride.
I picked the A8.
Wow!! Pretty fast, the roll rate was great, and holy chiz!! The guns!!
I plowed through a furball with guns blazings and actually got a few kills in one pass!! lol
Also did a few 1v1s and found it to be alot fun too!!
But quickly discovered that even when working the throttle, its not much of a turner.
Gonna try to learn to fly this plane.
Having flown it only a couple times, I can understand the attraction to this plane, but still don't understand why alot(not all) of guys run away in it.
Boner
it will turn! any time you want to go into the DA informally give me a shout.
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AH!
So like people who just ram you, (Nothing against a well performed HO shot) but people who just do that and that is all. Do not know how to do more than just one tactic? That sort of thing? I mean, I have been trained by the best of the best. I can turn, BnZ, GV, Bomb, etc. I love it all!
I have about 10 planes I stick with. Im adding more all the time. As I learn them.
So are you (they) talking about those that just want this to be like another Xbox 360 kind of game? Instead of learning the game in its entire?
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Roger that. Then help me out. What is it I am missing here about all this strife the old timers are having? With all due respect here, AND I DO MEAN JUST THAT. What was so great about the AH of old. What was so different? I really do not know and Im trying to understand what you and the others here are complaining about. Im still new with only a year total under my belt. :confused: I guess I dont find this game boring at all. And I am like :rolleyes: WHAT? Boring?
Thanks so much!
Jetblst, the same complaints have been made since the birth of online multiplayer flight sims. "It's not like the old days." :cry I played warbirds for a couple years about 10 years ago (around the time HT/Pyro sold to Wildbill), and even then the same complaints could be heard. "What's happened to this game?" "Remember the fun we had playing Confirmed Kill back in 1990? These new players are ruining the game" :rolleyes: yada yada yada. My memory isn't perfect, but I see zero difference in player behavior after an 8 year hiatus. :P Runners, vulchers, pickers, hoers, griefers, etc. It's all the same.
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Jetblst, the same complaints have been made since the birth of online multiplayer flight sims. "It's not like the old days." :cry I played warbirds for a couple years about 10 years ago, and even then the same complaints could be heard. "What's happened to this game?" "Remember the fun we had playing Confirmed Kill back in 1990? These new players are ruining the game" :rolleyes:yada yada yada. My memory isn't perfect, but I see zero difference in player behavior after an 8 year hiatus. :P Runners, vulchers, pickers, hoers, griefers, etc. It's all the same.
LOL This is my first multiplayer flight sim. Sheese, you'd think I'd been on these a long time ago. Since I do actually fly for a living :rolleyes:
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What kind of business mentality is that Xargos!
Honest business.
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LOL This is my first multiplayer flight sim. Sheese, you'd think I'd been on these a long time ago. Since I do actually fly for a living :rolleyes:
My childhood buddy is in the airforce and I can't get him to play this game. He says he doesn't have the time and doesn't see the point since he gets to play redflag games with the japanese. I'm envious. :cry
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What kind of business mentality is that Xargos!
I found this game by word of mouth. I didn't need to see an ad to find it and the community was large even back then in 2002. You got much more personal training from the Vets because there weren't as many noobs bombarding the areas like today. I believe in keeping a known paying customer with quality, instead of getting greedy.
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I found this game by word of mouth. I didn't need to see an ad to find it and the community was large even back then in 2002. You got much more personal training from the Vets because there weren't as many noobs bombarding the areas like today. I believe in keeping a known paying customer with quality, instead of getting greedy.
HTC has held up their end in making the best online flight sim, period bar none. They have delivered quality, and they deserve the increased profits additional membership brings. It is not like they advertised on Nickelodeon or something either-History/Military channel ads are a perfectly reasonable place to look for their target audience. They cannot, other than basic moderator tasks, control how players play the game, within the rules of said game.
And frankly, for the most part I fail to see any huge problem with MA, other than at times just getting overwhelmed by the numbers, in several senses. As Zaz alludes can find any kind of action you like if you go about it right. I've flown an A-20 into red-held areas before for instance. Finding a fight will be the least of your worries.
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Remember AW1, 2 and 3? where they had about 2000 players at least online most of the time? Each set of Arena (pacific, Europe, FR, RR) they all had at least 3 subs arena and all those arena were usually full. AH2 is no where close to that in # of players online.
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The sad thing is its not the "kids" doing it anymore, the truth is there are alot of seasoned players doing this also for the "points" or "rank".
There are some supposodly "good sticks" (at least thats what the ranking/points gods say) out there in the MA that are good at throwing the sheep to the wolves so the feeding can begin, they are only fooling themselves, we know who they are and we all have seen it so many times.
Just the other day, I watched a huge group of guys come in at strato alts, picked anything that tries to at least give them a fight and when enough guys eventually got up to even out the numbers any surviving planes high tailed it out of there to land the kills they just picked.
You got to ask yourself, who are they fooling more than anyone? Its the newbs they brought with them to send down as bait so they can take advantage of them not knowing any better, the ones that were landing all the spectacular kills were the Seasoned players that could only do this with the sacrificial bait they had used.
When I catch these "awesome" players alone, usually they are no match, since they dont have the dozen guys zooming your six to save them, and yes they run, fast and hard to the nearest base or help they can find.
I dont care about my score whatsoever and probably die more than not, I will run my plane out of gas chasing them if need be. However, I have noticed for some reason my score has actually gotten better this tour for one reason, through the frustration of what has been going on lately and tactics used by these score whordes, I have been doing what I like to call "HeadHunting", when I find a group of picktards looking for the easy kills, I actively and relentlessly pursue them until they just get tired of getting shot down in thier uber rides, like Temps, 51's, LA's, I look for the "Runners" that get the kills to take home since these are the ones that will do anything to get away so their Precious score wont get affected.
I Vote "yes" to Headhunting, works for me. :D
So to you guys that fit this bill of hiding in your horde or running as fast as you can to the deck when you run out of sacrificial lambs, the guy on your six could be "Daddy", I will not give up or give you any respect: if your RTB, out of fuel or ammo, trying to land, going for the ack, AFK,,, wont bother me a bit to add you to my list.
<S>
I'm pretty sure you already know, but rank & score have little to do with how good they are. It just means in most cases they have perfected the best way to fly for score. That typically involves the exact type of flying you mentioned in this post. Fly with a giant hoard cherry pick & vulch then run home to land the kills soon as anyone puts up a fight.
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Two types of players in AH2. One is the furballer (minority), the other is the land lubers (majority). Land lubers are often there just to take other air fields. They would take a bunch of air plane up and suicide it on hangers or ack to keep supression. The furballers are usually the one that's uppin from capped field amirite? I enjoy both aspect of it.
When I do land lubers sortie I often survive and kill a buncha stuff mainly because the area is capped, and I'm flying around without having to worry about higher contact jumping on me. Of course my mentality on land lubers sortie are to keep that air field suppress and let no one up, so I tend not to get involve into a long turnfight. Mainly because I can pick 3 people in a D9 in 3 minutes where in a turnfight situation w/ a D9 it would take 3-4 min to kill someone and I usually get kill.
When I fly furball missions I usually take just enough fuel to get to the fight, and fight for 15 minutes. I usually never carry enough fuel to make it back. 95% of my furballing sortie I never plan to make it back home. I'd up a 109 or a 190, get to about 5k and find the biggest # of red on the map and fly to it. It's fun sometime, but other time it could get discouraging since you die almost right away when you get to the fight.
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Remember AW1, 2 and 3? where they had about 2000 players at least online most of the time? Each set of Arena (pacific, Europe, FR, RR) they all had at least 3 subs arena and all those arena were usually full. AH2 is no where close to that in # of players online.
Yes, and look at what happened to AW.
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As Zaz alludes can find any kind of action you like if you go about it right. I've flown an A-20 into red-held areas before for instance. Finding a fight will be the least of your worries.
This is exactly right. You are at the very minimum 50% responsible for the types of fights you tend to get. If you do a little planning, thinking and exercise some common sense you can raise that to something very close to 100%.
What you fly and how high you fly it determines people's reaction to you in-flight. They don't know who's in the 20k Spit16, all they know is some dweeb is 20k in a Spit16 and will choose not play with you more often than not. Conversely, they won't know who's 8k in an F6F (although it's probably Greebo!) all they know is some guy at a reasonable altitude in a less than "uber" plane is a good candidate to fight and will almost certainly engage you. Don't take everything so personally, it's just a matter of people reacting to what information they have in the most reasonable and logical way, it can be predicted like the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening.
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it will turn! any time you want to go into the DA informally give me a shout.
Wow! Thanks for the offer storch.
Would like to take you up on that.
I think I'll really learn to like this plane if taught how to fly it properly.
I know that you really like the german iron, so I couldn't imagine a better instructor.
I'm usually on after 8 eastern.
If I see ya on, I'll shoot ya a line.
Thanks again,
Boner
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Yes, and look at what happened to AW.
EA killed it duh !!!
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EA killed it duh !!!
Greed did.
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I really don' t know what happen. I knew Gamestorm went down because EA bough out Gamestorm. Kesmai, the creator of AW? was partnership w/ gamestorm? so they lost that lisence to EA? When EA shut down all gamestorm games to force GS players to play their game. Air warrior went with it?
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I really have no idea on the details either. Some say they just wanted the codes. There are others here that know far more then I care to on that subject.
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I really don' t know what happen. I knew Gamestorm went down because EA bough out Gamestorm. Kesmai, the creator of AW? was partnership w/ gamestorm? so they lost that lisence to EA? When EA shut down all gamestorm games to force GS players to play their game. Air warrior went with it?
I can't remember who had the data. But, in a discussion a few weeks ago, even once AW was half dead on EA's menu, AW had 30,000+ active subscribers. So, imagine how many it had in its hayday. I hate to guess at stuff like this on HTC's forums, but I highly doubt AH has even half that many. That is significant because AH has relatively little competition compared to AW back then and there are just far more internet users now than there were 10 years ago, making the potential market much, much larger now.
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I really have no idea on the details either. Some say they just wanted the codes. There are others here that know far more then I care to on that subject.
At the time I was told by a disgruntled staffer that it was EA trying to clear out the competition to make way for their own native products. But, someone said a few weeks ago that it was for net code Kesmai had for their gaming service...
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Well,
Thanks for the candid response. I think most of the posts are right.
I'd say this. You cant expect the game to stay the same. It seems to be a work in progress. So if that is true, then there was and never will be the good ol days. Just times in the development you particularily liked. As for Me? I just find some sort of way around what I percieve as a wall until I get where I would like to be within the game.
:salute
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I can only assume these two quotes were directed at me:
Anyone who flies an "uber" ride relatively high gets no sympathy from me when they cry about people running from them.
What you fly and how high you fly it determines people's reaction to you in-flight. They don't know who's in the 20k Spit16, all they know is some dweeb is 20k in a Spit16 and will choose not play with you more often than not. Conversely, they won't know who's 8k in an F6F (although it's probably Greebo!) all they know is some guy at a reasonable altitude in a less than "uber" plane is a good candidate to fight and will almost certainly engage you. Don't take everything so personally, it's just a matter of people reacting to what information they have in the most reasonable and logical way, it can be predicted like the sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening.
While I do normally fly a Spit XVI and I do normally fly over 15K (to get into whatever plane I'm in into it's "sweet spot", normally between 8-17K depending on the plane, and to be prepared for buff hunting) that wasn't the case on this particular night. Had I been flying a Spit XVI at 16K I would have easily run down the runners. As it was, I was under 8-10K in the match-ups I posted earlier:
BTW, Here were some of the match-up's last night:
P-51D running fron a P-51B
La-7 running from a Spit IX
And in the DA a C.205 running from a Spit V
In fact, in the DA I was under 5K.
In my opinion, a Pony/Pony match-up, an La-7/Spit match-up or a 205/Spit match-up aren't that far fetched. In every case we were co-alt or with me at an alt disadvantage.
As I mentioned above, I normally do fly a Spit XVI and normally just over 15K. The XVI is my recent preferred buff hunter but it needs to have alt on the buffs to survive the gun passes. If I don't run into buffs I end up on the deck like everyone else, usually with my throttle chopped getting there with the "right" amount of E. Once on the deck Spits can't really run and they do attract a hoard. Eveyone wants to kill a XVI as quickly as possible.
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EA killed it duh !!!
LOL,, AOL killed it,,,
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I can't remember who had the data. But, in a discussion a few weeks ago, even once AW was half dead on EA's menu, AW had 30,000+ active subscribers. So, imagine how many it had in its hayday. I hate to guess at stuff like this on HTC's forums, but I highly doubt AH has even half that many. That is significant because AH has relatively little competition compared to AW back then and there are just far more internet users now than there were 10 years ago, making the potential market much, much larger now.
Yea but the gaming market isn't the same as it was back then.. Back then PC's had the best games and the consoles for the most part sucked and none of them offered any sort of online multi-player games. PC's and games like AW got so big because of multi-player.
Now days most of the younger crowd chooses to play on Xbox live or with their Playstation. That has an impact on games like this, because even though there are more people online, they aren't' necessary online to play games. They are online doing other stuff and then go do their gaming on their favorite console.
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PC's and games like AW got so big because of multi-player.
Air Warrior being FREE on AOL didn't hurt either. That's when I got hooked.
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LOL,, AOL killed it,,,
EA bought Kesmai to get into bed with AOL and run their "games" channel.
They then shelved AirWarrior.
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I can only assume these two quotes were directed at me:
Actually no, it was just a general statement. I have no clue what you fly. I don't even recognize your handle. If I know you in-game it is not connected to the forum, because I have no clue who you are...
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While I do normally fly a Spit XVI and I do normally fly over 15K (to get into whatever plane I'm in into it's "sweet spot", normally between 8-17K depending on the plane, and to be prepared for buff hunting) that wasn't the case on this particular night. Had I been flying a Spit XVI at 16K I would have easily run down the runners. As it was, I was under 8-10K in the match-ups I posted earlier:
In my opinion, a Pony/Pony match-up, an La-7/Spit match-up or a 205/Spit match-up aren't that far fetched. In every case we were co-alt or with me at an alt disadvantage.
As I mentioned above, I normally do fly a Spit XVI and normally just over 15K. The XVI is my recent preferred buff hunter but it needs to have alt on the buffs to survive the gun passes. If I don't run into buffs I end up on the deck like everyone else, usually with my throttle chopped getting there with the "right" amount of E. Once on the deck Spits can't really run and they do attract a hoard. Eveyone wants to kill a XVI as quickly as possible.
Well, that's why right there. There's a pretty small list of people that regularly fly that high, a smaller list still of those who are able to fight decently up there and an even smaller list of people who fly that high in a plane that would likely want to get intimately involved with an uber "hyper-modelled" ride like the Spit16. I suggest you separate in your mind sorties you intend to fly high and buff hunt and those you intend to engage other fighters. When you are on a sortie where you would like to be engaged by other fighters, fly a less uber ride much lower, I promise you will be rewarded with many more fights.
In all of those examples you were in the plane with the maneuverability advantage. I am not saying they couldn't have had a reasonable go at you depending on their E and skill level. But, I am saying you are faulting them for not engaging you when you were in a position of some advantage. I can never fault someone for that because it is completely logical, perhaps not the most fun, but it's the correct play logically when all other factors are equal.
When I am in my Typhoon a Spit16 can kiss my hairy white arse Co-E/Co-Alt. I'm going to either suck him down for a thorough gang-banging or disengage until I have some E/Alt on him then come back and wax his arse. The privilege of being willingly engaged more often is reserved for those who fly aircraft not intrinsically superior to the vast majority of the planeset and not higher than 75% of the aircraft in your combat area. If you're not willing to give that up, you're going to continue to be disappointed I'm afraid.
I suggest you perform an experiment. Pick a plane from the list I mentioned earlier and never fly it above 10k, then report back to us how different your perception is of people's willingness to engage you.
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Zazen, you tend to be right 90% of the time. :P This is one of those times: Spit16 pilots must expect that other aircraft will be cautious about engaging them and won't give them the kind of fight they desire. Expecting otherwise is laughable.
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Zazen, you tend to be right 90% of the time. :P This is one of those times: Spit16 pilots must expect that other aircraft will be cautious about engaging them and won't give them the kind of fight they desire. Expecting otherwise is laughable.
Thanks sir! :salute Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then... :aok
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But, in a discussion a few weeks ago, even once AW was half dead on EA's menu, AW had 30,000+ active subscribers. So, imagine how many it had in its hayday.
I doubt Aw had had 30,000+ subscribers. Over time i can see 30,000 checking it out since it became free on AOL but computers and servers were much different then.
I was always able to get on in AW without a prob using the crappy dial up they had.
...forgot the bawd
How big were the rooms in AW? 1% of 30,000 players is 300.
my guess would be: At least 25% of the subscribers probably actually played on a regular basis. The majority were computer geek adults as well.
I played from 94 or 95 till end. Was a great game and costed me plenty when i first started. The first bill I blamed on the neighbors kid.
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Zazen, you tend to be right 90% of the time. :P This is one of those times: Spit16 pilots must expect that other aircraft will be cautious about engaging them and won't give them the kind of fight they desire. Expecting otherwise is laughable.
I must be the odd ball in the bunch, because I don't mind fighting spits. granted I fly the K4 most of the time, but I typically enjoy the match of a Spit16 vs a 109k4. I really don't care if they are higher than me, I'll just talk them into getting lower. :D
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Zazen, you tend to be right 90% of the time. :P This is one of those times: Spit16 pilots must expect that other aircraft will be cautious about engaging them and won't give them the kind of fight they desire. Expecting otherwise is laughable.
That's just silly. Nothing better then eating up Spit 16s in the old 38G down on the deck. it must drive them nuts to have that big target turn with em :)
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As I mentioned above, I normally do fly a Spit XVI and normally just over 15K. Once on the deck Spits can't really run and they do attract a hoard. Eveyone wants to kill a XVI as quickly as possible.
Eagl, while we have had a couple good fights in the past. Maybe you could try out something a little more challanging then a Spit16, you might find that people are more inclined to give you a good fight more often rather then either running or looking to kill you as quickly as possible.
Generally Spit16s is never an encounter I look forward to, simply because they are either flown by someone new and be a quick kill, or someone average and higher and I'll be left shaking my head at it's uber abilities. While trying to sucker them into some sort of close fight for a snap shot.
I savour the moment when I can find something interesting for a 1v1. One reason I fly the Yak T is to fly something different from the normal rides and make it not only more challanging and interesting for myself but also something different for others to come across.
Though it does get frustrating at times when you get shot down by a uber ride simply because they can make mistakes and get away with it where as you make one mistake/miss one shot and your back in the tower. Plus you still get picked like anything else. Also I rarely give a salute back to anyone in a top tier ride, I just don't see the difficulty worthy of a salute.
Anyway flying Yaks especially the T keeps me interested. I don't think I'd last one tour flying a Spit16 even though I know my all my stats etc would all be 3 times higher with half the effort. Since I don't give a toss about stats it's hunting alone and the odd really good 1v1 or many fight that keeps me interested. That and the challange of pulling off shots with the 37mm, very rewarding. :devil
<S>...-Gixer
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spit-16 at 15k? for what? most fight r like 5k. Even in D9 I usually fly to the fight at 8k-10k max. In the fight most the time I'm around 6-7k.
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spit-16 at 15k? for what? most fight r like 5k. Even in D9 I usually fly to the fight at 8k-10k max. In the fight most the time I'm around 6-7k.
Learn to read. I said that it's been my buff hunter of choice the past few camps. The only way to beat 17's and 24's in a Spit without getting shredded is to start with an alt advantage. Through the first week or so of this camp I was 24 and 0 against 17's and 24's. No idea where I am now.
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That's just silly. Nothing better then eating up Spit 16s in the old 38G down on the deck. it must drive them nuts to have that big target turn with em :)
Spit16s on the deck are easier to kill than ones with some alt. When they are at alt they can always fall back on the seemingly "E-Free" butter churn stick stir with that crazy rollrate. Without alt they really can only turn or scissor making them very doable for a decent shot/stick.
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Without alt they really can only turn or scissor making them very doable for a decent shot/stick.
Or they can just hit WEP go verticle and return to an alt/E advantage fairly easily against all except the very best climbers. Even then they can add some turn into the climb which few rides can match. Kind of like a very lazy Hi Yo Yo.
Sometimes I can't help but laugh when I merge with a Spit16 at about 300 mph I can pull immediately into a verticle climb and then just watch from rear view as they do a full 180 deg flat turn looking for me, pull up hit WEP and then close the distance within 600 for a hispano shot. :lol
<S>...-Gixer
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I doubt Aw had had 30,000+ subscribers. Over time i can see 30,000 checking it out since it became free on AOL but computers and servers were much different then.
Gamestorm>EA carried about 25K total subscribers for the Gamestorm package of games. I saw a reliable source say that the database on the AOL server had more than 150k users in it at one time, though you can assume that some were multiple accounts of the same players using different screen names, and many were passerbys accumulated over time. If you go by the peak time rule of thumb there were usually about 11-12K active players during the AOL free with subscription days.
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Or they can just hit WEP go verticle and return to an alt/E advantage fairly easily against all except the very best climbers. Even then they can add some turn into the climb which few rides can match. Kind of like a very lazy Hi Yo Yo.
Sometimes I can't help but laugh when I merge with a Spit16 at about 300 mph I can pull immediately into a verticle climb and then just watch from rear view as they do a full 180 deg flat turn looking for me, pull up hit WEP and then close the distance within 600 for a hispano shot. :lol
<S>...-Gixer
:rofl No kidding gixer. Spit16s even give the 109K-4 a run for its money in the climbing department. According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php) the Spit16 outclimbs the 109K-4 between 16-20k ft. The only clear advantage the 109K-4 has here is level speed. I don't know what the heck you do in a Yak-9T, where you are out-turned, slower, a worse climber, slower at acceleration, etc. the list goes on and on. :uhoh Thank goodness many Spit16 pilots are new and clueless, otherwise pure hit and run, with nothing else mixed in, would be the order of the day.
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I don't know what the heck you do in a Yak-9T, where you are out-turned, slower, a worse climber, slower at acceleration, etc. the list goes on and on. :uhoh Thank goodness many Spit16 pilots are new and clueless, otherwise pure hit and run, with nothing else mixed in, would be the order of the day.
If I can't count on clueless, then I go for scissors (pref vertical) and a well timed shot, though I have to make the shot with the first or second crossover. Basically I try and turn it into a super close knife fight and use the tater snap shot advantage. Or if all going badly just HO the dweeby POS. :D
Yak U is much easier.
<S>...-Gixer
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But, in a discussion a few weeks ago, even once AW was half dead on EA's menu, AW had 30,000+ active subscribers.
At the time it was shut down, it was EA's second largest subscription based game, second to OU. Of course, it goes without saying, subscription base numbers don't always accurately reflect the player base numbers.
ack-ack
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in the 2yrs i been playing, ive seen many changes, much more for the negitive than the positive :cry :( i find more HOers, pickers, gangers, and runers now than 2 yrs ago :( i finally find good fight and find 8 behind me, wen theres 8 other bish around :cry it has changed a lot.
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in the 2yrs i been playing, ive seen many changes, much more for the negitive than the positive :cry :( i find more HOers, pickers, gangers, and runers now than 2 yrs ago :( i finally find good fight and find 8 behind me, wen theres 8 other bish around :cry it has changed a lot.
Pull yourself together. :furious You're the one who has changed, not the game. Remember when getting just 1 kill was a big deal? You didn't care if you were immediately ganged afterward, it was still a significant success. Now you probably want to shoot down 2 or 3 without getting ganged at all; that's a lot more difficult. :salute
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in the 2yrs i been playing, ive seen many changes, much more for the negitive than the positive :cry :( i find more HOers, pickers, gangers, and runers now than 2 yrs ago :( i finally find good fight and find 8 behind me, wen theres 8 other bish around :cry it has changed a lot.
Have to disagree after playing for 3 years now all the above you mentioned is the same 3 years back as it is now. That is why I like this game so much you don't know what the other guy is going to do. You have to be a little like Kenny Rogers & his song the gambler. You know the words. Your not going to get one v one in the main arena if you want that your going to have to live in the DA.
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I doubt Aw had had 30,000+ subscribers. Over time i can see 30,000 checking it out since it became free on AOL but computers and servers were much different then.
Doubt all you want but it won't change the fact that AW had 30,000+ (IIRC, number was 38,000) when it was shut down. As I mentioned in my previous post, subscription numbers don't always reflect the actual player base. For example, WoW has over 10 million paying subscribers but the player base is approximately around 3-4 million. It's because of this discrepancy that MMO companies will usually only release subscription number totals and not actual player base numbers.
ack-ack
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is BadEagle named WarEagle ingame ? If yes I lmaoing
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is BadEagle named WarEagle ingame ? If yes I lmaoing
No, it isn't. ;)
Maybe you should try baldeagl...
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is BadEagle named WarEagle ingame ? If yes I lmaoing
Nope, It's Baldegle. He's a good guy. We all get irritated at times.
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Ok, WarEagle fits the description on the spit16 at 15K part, thats why I was wondering.
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HTC has held up their end in making the best online flight sim, period bar none. They have delivered quality, and they deserve the increased profits additional membership brings. It is not like they advertised on Nickelodeon or something either-History/Military channel ads are a perfectly reasonable place to look for their target audience. They cannot, other than basic moderator tasks, control how players play the game, within the rules of said game.
And frankly, for the most part I fail to see any huge problem with MA, other than at times just getting overwhelmed by the numbers, in several senses. As Zaz alludes can find any kind of action you like if you go about it right. I've flown an A-20 into red-held areas before for instance. Finding a fight will be the least of your worries.
The only thing I think HTC should do for the main arenas that they haven't, at least while I've been here, is:
They should more dynamically change ENY values. I've yet to see base ENY values for aircraft change in the year I've been playing. Either ENY should start moving quicker towards 5 based on less of a numbers imbalance, or the most popular 5 ENY planes' ENY value should be lowered even more... all the way to 1, if needed.
Qualitatively it seems like the Spit16, LA7, and Nik2 are flown way out of proportion to the other planes... and it makes sense that they are... they really are the best and/or easiest aircraft to get kills in, in the game. The P51 and Typhoon are also highly flown, but at least those aircraft have weaknesses that can be exploited. Any other < 10 ENY aircraft not mentioned here probably has a lower ENY value than it deserves.
HTC also needs to realize that the game is played from 15k on down. Giving planes ENY values based on its ability, or inability, to fly above 15k is a huge mistake. Keep the ENY values based on 15k and lower performance and they will be much more balanced 98% of the time.
To be blunt, IMO when HTC sees certain planes are flown way more than anything else, the ENY on them should be lowered even lower than 5 until players are forced to fly something else often enough that they lose popularity. By the same token, aircraft that aren't flown often should have their ENY raised (and/or perks lowered (Spit14)) until they are flown more. These changes should IMO happen at the start of every tour based on the tour before, or based on two tours before if it can't be calculated on the fly. The min/maxer types will see this and think "hey, the P47-N is a real bargain this month, I'm going to fly it more", and that will cause plane variety in the LWMA to increase, and it will be refreshing and fun.
I'm sure this has been suggested many times in the proper forum for suggestions. I'm saying here that there IS a way that HTC can control how its players play the game, and that its an obvious move to make, and HTC not making it is the reason people like the OP are saying what they're saying.
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The only thing I think HTC should do for the main arenas that they haven't, at least while I've been here, is:
They should more dynamically change ENY values. I've yet to see base ENY values for aircraft change in the year I've been playing. Either ENY should start moving quicker towards 5 based on less of a numbers imbalance, or the most popular 5 ENY planes' ENY value should be lowered even more... all the way to 1, if needed.
Qualitatively it seems like the Spit16, LA7, and Nik2 are flown way out of proportion to the other planes... and it makes sense that they are... they really are the best and/or easiest aircraft to get kills in, in the game. The P51 and Typhoon are also highly flown, but at least those aircraft have weaknesses that can be exploited. Any other < 10 ENY aircraft not mentioned here probably has a lower ENY value than it deserves.
HTC also needs to realize that the game is played from 15k on down. Giving planes ENY values based on its ability, or inability, to fly above 15k is a huge mistake. Keep the ENY values based on 15k and lower performance and they will be much more balanced 98% of the time.
To be blunt, IMO when HTC sees certain planes are flown way more than anything else, the ENY on them should be lowered even lower than 5 until players are forced to fly something else often enough that they lose popularity. By the same token, aircraft that aren't flown often should have their ENY raised (and/or perks lowered (Spit14)) until they are flown more. These changes should IMO happen at the start of every tour based on the tour before, or based on two tours before if it can't be calculated on the fly. The min/maxer types will see this and think "hey, the P47-N is a real bargain this month, I'm going to fly it more", and that will cause plane variety in the LWMA to increase, and it will be refreshing and fun.
I'm sure this has been suggested many times in the proper forum for suggestions. I'm saying here that there IS a way that HTC can control how its players play the game, and that its an obvious move to make, and HTC not making it is the reason people like the OP are saying what they're saying.
Not that I don't agree that some planes do need their ENY re-evaluated, but the meat of your post will not change the fact that most people will run like a cat on fire if all the odds, of an engagement, are not in their favor ... OH NOES !!! ... they just might die.
Your idea would take people out of their favorite ride(s) and force them into "other" planes, which would then in turn make them run even more or quicker from an engagement, and not encourage them to fight.
Adjusting ENY values will not force people to "grow a pair".
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<--- D9/K4 fan, eny or not. I won't change my mind on those ride.
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I ran yesterday!. It was like 7 rook v. me. I did what my D9 can do, put my wep on, spiral climb outta the mess and bug out.
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Adjusting ENY values will not force people to "grow a pair".
Maybe... but after they are run-down often enough in their non-uber ride, or are sick of being bored climbing to 20k to have a huge advantage before every fight, they might learn to grow a pair. And another alternative is they might just move to the chess piece without ENY restrictions, there will always be at least one side that can fly everything. I think it would be a step in the right direction and just the act of having a variable ENY will make players conscious of certain planes being a bargain "this month" and encourage them to try them out.
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I ran a couple of days ago too. I was in a Spit XVI, had just killed a N1K but collided with him as I did (from behind) breaking off half a wing. There was a 110 there too and I was determined to keep fighting the 110 with 1 1/2 wings until I noticed a P-47 on my six. I ran like a schoolgirl and landed safely at my home base.
I was surprised that with aileron and rudder cranked in to stay aloft that I was able to hold my ground against that P-47. He broke off after ~ half a sector.
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hey Bald i wouldnt say thats running. running is wanting to kill the enemy and failing, then running. taking damage then retreating holds no shame for me. Depends, sometimes i just think 'screw it, they deserve a kill' and stick around to die, sometimes i want to land my kills or i dont think the enemy deservs a kill, then i will retreat and not feel bad. I only feel bad when i am forced to run, which never happens anymore. i just either win or die.
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Depends, sometimes i just think 'screw it, they deserve a kill' and stick around to die, sometimes i want to land my kills or i dont think the enemy deservs a kill, then i will retreat and not feel bad. I only feel bad when i am forced to run, which never happens anymore. i just either win or die.
No one deserves a kill/deserves to be shot down, or vis versa. The same goes for "deserving" anything else in AHII. There is no "deserve", there is only what you can or cannot get.
I feel BAD when I accidentally hit a squirrel in my car, never about anything in the game. I feel GOOD when I shoot someone down in a fair fight, and even BETTER when they never see me coming and I brutally murder them ("It weren't no stand-up fight Judge!"- "I laid down to steady my aim."). Running and denying some poor bastard a kill isn't as nice as the above, but it doesn't suck, especially if his insistance on following ends up sealing his own doom.
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Maybe... but after they are run-down often enough in their non-uber ride, or are sick of being bored climbing to 20k to have a huge advantage before every fight, they might learn to grow a pair. And another alternative is they might just move to the chess piece without ENY restrictions, there will always be at least one side that can fly everything. I think it would be a step in the right direction and just the act of having a variable ENY will make players conscious of certain planes being a bargain "this month" and encourage them to try them out.
Forcing a player to fly a certain plane they don't wish to is not the solution and will cause more problems than it will solve.
ack-ack
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I think I can help here. What we are really talking about is perspective. What I mean by that is, everyone has a different idea of what is "reasonable". That concept of "reasonable" fluctuates wildly for a myriad of reasons, such as, personality, your plane, their plane, SA, familiarity, experience, skill, gunnery, etc. So, what seems perfectly reasonable to me may seem entirely preposterous to you. Then consider the fact that no two people ever have the same version of what happened retrospectively, there's always my version, your version and the truth. What I may consider you balking at a 1 vs 1 with me was really you seeing my 3 buddies I didn't even notice 4k out making a beeline in your general direction.
Everyone has different expectations from a sortie. One person's expectation may be to land 5 kills. Another person's expectation may be to get into a fight that gives him an exhilarating adrenalin surge. Regardless of your expectation, what you consider "reasonable" will be within that context. While it may be reasonable for Slapshot to dive into 7 Spit16's and see how many he can take out before he dies, that would not be reasonable to me. Conversely, I would have no problem egressing from a Co-Alt or higher Spit16 in my Typhoon until I had some E on him then come back and bounce him, that's very reasonable to me, but probably not to Slapshot.
Then there's the plane/player dynamic. What is reasonable for a 10 year veteran is not likely equally reasonable to a 2 weeker. By a similar token, what is reasonable in a Zeke may not be reasonable in a Jug.
So, assuming having fun is the goal for everyone, creating expectations, which is really just a short-term goal, combined with the player and the plane determines what is reasonable. There is no overarching, universally acceptable definition of what is reasonable. It is a very subjective concept. It doesn't increase the fun for you or anyone else to attempt to superimpose your concept of reasonable onto someone else. If you get to the point where everyone else seems to be playing "unreasonably" and that's making you unhappy, it's probably you that is being "unreasonable" in your expectations.
Slappy, I used you in my example because I knew you wouldn't mind for the purpose of illustration...
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Depends, sometimes i just think 'screw it, they deserve a kill' and stick around to die, sometimes i want to land my kills or i dont think the enemy deservs a kill, then i will retreat and not feel bad. I only feel bad when i am forced to run, which never happens anymore. i just either win or die.
just yesterday, I found myself out in the middle of FT, and took out a couple of nits....ya I could have run home and landed my kills, but it is just not how I am. Someone mentioned on 200 (in a fun way), the person I had just previously shot, that they were coming back for me. I knew, seeings how I was the only rook in that area, and by the bar, that I would not be walking away...even though I could have. Sure enough I ended up fighting, died, but had a great time. everyone got back what they wanted, I got a good fun fight, and the "bad" guys got my scalp.
I would probably have stayed anyway, but after taking a few scalps, I just felt it would be kind of wrong somehow, to just leave the area because I was worried about dying. I still had gas, still had ammo. Truth be told, I could have grabbed alt, skirted the area and done all the things that would greatly increase my chances of living. It's really just more fun, for me and others, to be that guy, who doesn't do the things to ensure their survival/landing kills, and go out in a blaze of glory:)
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someone buy that man a beer!
:rock
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It's really just more fun, for me and others, to be that guy, who doesn't do the things to ensure their survival/landing kills, and go out in a blaze of glory:)
I totally agree, pelt dispensers are...Ggggggreeaaat! <Tony The Tiger voice> :aok
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I think I can help here. What we are really talking about is perspective. What I mean by that is, everyone has a different idea of what is "reasonable". That concept of "reasonable" fluctuates wildly for a myriad of reasons, such as, personality, your plane, their plane, SA, familiarity, experience, skill, gunnery, etc. So, what seems perfectly reasonable to me may seem entirely preposterous to you. Then consider the fact that no two people ever have the same version of what happened retrospectively, there's always my version, your version and the truth. What I may consider you balking at a 1 vs 1 with me was really you seeing my 3 buddies I didn't even notice 4k out making a beeline in your general direction.
Everyone has different expectations from a sortie. One person's expectation may be to land 5 kills. Another person's expectation may be to get into a fight that gives him an exhilarating adrenalin surge. Regardless of your expectation, what you consider "reasonable" will be within that context. While it may be reasonable for Slapshot to dive into 7 Spit16's and see how many he can take out before he dies, that would not be reasonable to me. Conversely, I would have no problem egressing from a Co-Alt or higher Spit16 in my Typhoon until I had some E on him then come back and bounce him, that's very reasonable to me, but probably not to Slapshot.
Then there's the plane/player dynamic. What is reasonable for a 10 year veteran is not likely equally reasonable to a 2 weeker. By a similar token, what is reasonable in a Zeke may not be reasonable in a Jug.
So, assuming having fun is the goal for everyone, creating expectations, which is really just a short-term goal, combined with the player and the plane determines what is reasonable. There is no overarching, universally acceptable definition of what is reasonable. It is a very subjective concept. It doesn't increase the fun for you or anyone else to attempt to superimpose your concept of reasonable onto someone else. If you get to the point where everyone else seems to be playing "unreasonably" and that's making you unhappy, it's probably you that is being "unreasonable" in your expectations.
Slappy, I used you in my example because I knew you wouldn't mind for the purpose of illustration...
Do you test keyboards for a living Zaz? :rofl
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pretty sure Zaz wakes up each day and has a hearty breakfast of toasted dictionary with a light thesaurus spread.
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pretty sure Zaz wakes up each day and has a hearty breakfast of toasted dictionary with a light thesaurus spread.
Haha, if you only knew the half of it...;)
You have to admit I'm getting better though. I've been making a conscious effort to use five one syllable words to express a single concept instead of one five syllable word. Other than this recreational forum the bulk of my writing is highly technical for specialized audiences...So, this kind of discussion forum is good "writer's therapy" for me, it helps me "decompress" my means of expression for more public consumption.