Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 999000 on May 02, 2009, 10:37:58 PM
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Hell just logged in ...what a mess! we have 334 people in a 100 cap arena
91 people in a 150 arena .......
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Sounds like there's a great fight in the 334 arena, while the 91 people arena sucked so bad that over a hundred people all logged off.. Or the fight is good enough to keep playing past prime time in the first arena, but not in the second one. It ain't rocket science 999 :) ...
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boo hoo! :cry
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Doesnt this always happen after a map resets... takes a few hrs to work its self out...
Every one goes into one area then when the other opens it always has a couple hundreds in there cause they were all able to pile into one area............
<S>
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
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boo hoo! :cry
You shut up!!
:mad:
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
Yes they do!
Now where's that Minnesota nice triple 9's! :)
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You shut up!!
:mad:
HAI STANG! ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME!
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LOUD NOISES
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
Many change countries.... the others just complain about eny. :aok
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
It was never expected ENY limit would even the numbers. It's just an incentive to do so.
And more than that, it's meant to be a handicap for those that won't. Leveling the playing field a bit.
Now I'm waiting for someone to post the dumb "There was no ENY in WW2!" ;)
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Bring back the MA! :aok
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do you see people change counties??
Here at the eastern edge of Oregon, I see people changing states. (Yes, that was really bad. :D :o )
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Here at the eastern edge of Oregon, I see people changing states.
Yes they do..... Would you keep your liberal's on your side of the river and out of Idaho. :lol
CAVALRY
(http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-med-lousy.jpg)
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Ya last night was pretty bad. Blue had a small map, and orange was capped out. The hordes were running strong in blue, and even tho Flacon23 was trying (hehehe) to make sure everyone was having fun, the Rooks were getting clobbered from both side pretty badly. I finally got into Org about 10 EST because I knew the map would be reset in blue before long. Org had a big map, and even though there was a horde running there too, it was easier to find a good fight due to the larger fronts.
I think the weekend numbers are getting to high (good news for HTC!) for small maps. I think it would be better if there was only big maps in play for the weekends.
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I think the weekend numbers are getting to high (good news for HTC!) for small maps. I think it would be better if there was only big maps in play for the weekends.
Agreed. Might be time to go to the 400/400 caps for the entire weekend, on large maps.
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It was never expected ENY limit would even the numbers. It's just an incentive to do so.
And more than that, it's meant to be a handicap for those that won't. Leveling the playing field a bit.
Now I'm waiting for someone to post the dumb "There was no ENY in WW2!" ;)
ummmmm........there was no eny in ww2..... :)
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Thank you :)
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Oh they didnt? I thought hitler had to spend an extra 9 months perk farming for some 262s.
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That body count is too low.
<S>
Yes they do..... Would you keep your liberal's on your side of the river and out of Idaho. :lol
CAVALRY
(http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-med-lousy.jpg)
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Aww man, I missed it! I logged in about the same time, looked at the lower numbered arena, went in, had a great time then logged off for the night.
I always miss the bad stuff! :furious
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Long as yer in I D HO wud you please go over to Lewiston and ask CCI to up their primer output. I mean come on!!
This is getting readickalisp! It's gettin so a redneck can'a no load his own anymo! :noid
Ren
.
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Ya last night was pretty bad. Blue had a small map, and orange was capped out. The hordes were running strong in blue, and even tho Flacon23 was trying (hehehe) to make sure everyone was having fun, the Rooks were getting clobbered from both side pretty badly. I finally got into Org about 10 EST because I knew the map would be reset in blue before long. Org had a big map, and even though there was a horde running there too, it was easier to find a good fight due to the larger fronts.
I think the weekend numbers are getting to high (good news for HTC!) for small maps. I think it would be better if there was only big maps in play for the weekends.
Why can't we be friends? :D
I like big maps and small maps, but mostly I like having the choice of either one anytime.
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Ok Hitech is the Tuesday experiment working?........I just know its the one od the week I look forward to the most.
999000
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Now I'm waiting for someone to post the dumb "There was no ENY in WW2!" ;)
They did have "HORDES" of Buffs and fighter escorts and Missions and even NOE ones in WWII. OH crap.... ducking for cover...hehhehehehe :rock
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Ok Hitech is the Tuesday experiment working?........I just know its the one od the week I look forward to the most.
999000
I hope not, I hate trying to fly on Tuesday. I like having a choice of two LW arenas.
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Ok Hitech is the Tuesday experiment working?........I just know its the one od the week I look forward to the most.
999000
Same here mate.
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I have to ask this...before the arena split how come there were no major 'ufo' problems and darbar problems, but now on TT there are?
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WW2 was full of pickers, runners, and Ho'ers.
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WW2 was full of pickers, runners, and Ho'ers.
Don't forget porkers, milk runners, and bomb****s :lol
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TT just sucks plain and simple. I found that some of my buddies won't even log on. I use to go to the TA or DA on TT, but now I pretty much just stop getting on unless I am really bored.
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TT just sucks plain and simple. I found that some of my buddies won't even log on. I use to go to the TA or DA on TT, but now I pretty much just stop getting on unless I am really bored.
Same here my friend :salute
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TT just sucks plain and simple. I found that some of my buddies won't even log on. I use to go to the TA or DA on TT, but now I pretty much just stop getting on unless I am really bored.
Agreed
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I happen to luv TT. The more planes up the more fun.
Each to his own.
Ren
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To the Eny bit. Yes it is very annoying but at the same time if you get good at 20+ eny birds there shouldn't be a problem. Now i would figure do to The perk bonuses for the outnumbered country that people would switch to that one. Example- 78 bishop, 61 Knights and 56 rooks. Since bishops have a high Eny problem people need to switch to Rooks to get mega perk bonuses, SO DO IT don't switch to bishops when they are close to winning war switch to lowest pilot count country. :rock
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Hell just logged in ...what a mess! we have 334 people in a 100 cap arena
91 people in a 150 arena .......
<does wobbly drunken seal swagger>
Ummm, ewe'll git mhore dun wit sugar then ewe will wit salt,....
<slumps into corner, burp!,...swallow, gag>
jest sayin.
ZZZzzzz <drool>
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TT just sucks plain and simple. I found that some of my buddies won't even log on. I use to go to the TA or DA on TT, but now I pretty much just stop getting on unless I am really bored.
TT doesn't change a thing, just more numbers and more action. Wanting to have less players in an MMO just goes against the grain, it makes me kind of sick to my stomach tbh.
Seriously HTC, please bring back H2H so LCCajun, Banshee and Shuffler can play AH2 on their ghetto P.Cs and cry less on the BBS.
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Kazaa, I take your "ghetto computer" and raise you a "shove it where the sun don't shine." My computer isn't top notch but it is enough to run this game, and now that I've made some changes actually runs great on TT. If you like fighting hordes, so be it. And I have not cried about it on the BBS either. I just agreed that I either log or go to a different arena when Titanic Tuesday rolls around.
Speaking of ghetto computer, what pisses me off the most is I worked my arse off just to get this thing. I'm only 17 years old and have had this computer for around 6 years or more. Yeah...I was around 11 when I got it. I spent 2 whole years mowing lawns, raking leaves, doing chores and other hard work while other kids my age were out playing. All because I wanted a computer. Did you have to work that hard to get yours, probably not. So when you talk about my computer it really strikes a nerve.
Now that I'm older, I still work multiple jobs <see JOBS thread> while other kids are hanging out and having a good time. I missed my junior prom this year because I had to work, and by the time I got off I was too tired to even go to the after parties. I somehow still find time to play AH, usually late at night. I can afford another computer, yes. Will I buy one, no. Next fall I will be going to college. I'm not gonna WASTE money on a new computer when this one efficiently does what I need for school work.
So, take your insults about me and my computer and shove em
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I didn't go to prom either, I went to an all boys school so I didn't miss much. ;)
Banshee, I'm sure both of our opinions would change some what if we stepped into each others shoes. <S> (sorry for being an arse hole) Would be great if HTC had an "uncapped" arena for the people who are lucky enough to have mid-high end P.Cs and enjoy a good gang bang!
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Arena caps suck....
....slightly less than a single, merged arena.
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Doesnt this always happen after a map resets
<S>
NO
While not in such a radical number difference
I've personally seen it with maps I'd disco'd from and tried to get back into.
I've also seen in it on maps that have remained the same for days. Most recently, last night.
Just do titanic tues every night and let the players decide what arena they want to be in.
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Would be great if HTC had an "uncapped" arena for the people who are lucky enough to have mid-high end P.Cs and enjoy a good gang bang!
Customers using low-end computers had nothing do to with splitting the arenas.
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I didn't go to prom either, I went to an all boys school so I ........... enjoy a good gang bang!
:rofl
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Banshee, I'm sure both of our opinions would change some what if we stepped into each others shoes.
#S#, sir.
Above statement that I quoted is the truth to just about everybody :salute
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
Plenty of planes with high eny to choose from so you dont get any sympathy for that. Arena cap i can agree on, but then i dont want 2 late war arenas in the first place :)
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Be a shame if the 2nd best buff gunner in the game gets booted................. :rock
and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
Yes 999000....... You're only the 2nd best.
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TT doesn't change a thing, just more numbers and more action. Wanting to have less players in an MMO just goes against the grain, it makes me kind of sick to my stomach tbh.
Seriously HTC, please bring back H2H so LCCajun, Banshee and Shuffler can play AH2 on their ghetto P.Cs and cry less on the BBS.
lol I have 5 pcs online at home and more than likely each one is comparable or better than what you run. :aok
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Ohhhhh, so you're the guy!!! :lol When are you setting up the 6th computer bro? :D
lol I have 5 pcs online at home and more than likely each one is comparable or better than what you run. :aok
Thats ok, I was told by a individual lastnight he has multiple accounts. He said he has 5 acccounts and will have 6 by summertime,lol. He supposely uses them to give him supplies/ bomb, etcc..
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Ohhhhh, so you're the guy!!! :lol When are you setting up the 6th computer bro? :D
:rofl I only fly as Shuffler. The other machines run generally as servers but my wife or daughter may get on them from time to time. My daughter can access the one she uses from school and my wife can access her stuff from up at Budweiser.
I have a machine sitting on a drawing table here at my shop right now. I have had a couple of drives go bad in my years as a geek but this one just quit completely. I have not even beem able to set it up as secondary to retrieve some info I need off of it. So my buddy has the drive down the road at his shop to see what he can do.
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Your wife works for AB? You lucky Bastage!!!!
I know what you mean, I sit in front of 3. Even in-game, one is fulltime work comp and the other multitasks a little.
What's wrong with the HD's? Hopefully it's not the motor. I found out getting a motor replacement in a hard drive costs BIG BIG dollars.
:rofl
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So, take your insults about me and my computer and shove em
Is this what AH2 looks like on your rig?
(http://www.oldgames.sk/images/oldgames/simulator/Microsoft.Flight.Simulator.1/msfs100-320.gif)
I keed, I keed...
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I like having a choice of two LW arenas.
What choice is that?
For the last 3 months or so, I can't even get into Orange 95% of the time. It has a cap of 340/300 or something for hours, and the times where it's smaller, it's not worth the 15 to 20 minutes trying to get into.
Same for many others who can't get into Orange and the only other choice (LW) means getting thrown into the sewer that is Blue.
It's especially fun in the Sewer Arena that one enemy has 15+ extra guys and the other has 35+...only token fighting between the two yet double and triple darbars from both on your front. Yes...give us more of the Sewer Arena.
Arena caps & ENY work perfectly well, right?
It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game.
ROX
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TT doesn't change a thing, just more numbers and more action. Wanting to have less players in an MMO just goes against the grain, it makes me kind of sick to my stomach tbh.
Having more players changes gameplay... and past a point, it changes it for the worse. This is obvious, and it's why the arenas were split. TT sucks, quite simply. More hording. I simply don't log on.
Seriously HTC, please bring back H2H so LCCajun, Banshee and Shuffler can play AH2 on their ghetto P.Cs and cry less on the BBS.
I'm not really sure why you think the technical problems have anything to due with people's PCs.
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and Furthermore Hitech, the "eny" crap doesn't work either!!!!!! Hello! do you see people change counties?? no they don't!
HiTech please can you make NooBs sign up without all numbers in thier call-sign? Check Six! number guy! :rolleyes:
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I hope not, I hate trying to fly on Tuesday. I like having a choice of two LW arenas.
I think having a choice is really the point. With caps, you don't always have a choice, just like Titanic Tuesdays.
The worst part is having squaddies in one areana and not being able to join them due to the caps.
Glove
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ROX, I couldn't agree with you more <S>. I obviously wrote the post in the moment of frustration...I wish I could blame it on drinking.....I play the game not to be the best of anything ...I play the game because after a long day filled with frustration Aces High is the little oasis of pure fun at the end of a day....caps eny and not being with your squad is frustrating at times.
999000 <S>
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Your wife works for AB? You lucky Bastage!!!!
I know what you mean, I sit in front of 3. Even in-game, one is fulltime work comp and the other multitasks a little.
What's wrong with the HD's? Hopefully it's not the motor. I found out getting a motor replacement in a hard drive costs BIG BIG dollars.
I'll know what the prob is tomorrow.
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Arena Split Good.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/Garth-and-Wayne-Skipping-wayne-27s-.jpg)
But arena caps are like waiting for the cars to go by in the street before you say, "GAME ON!"
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/cap954.jpg)
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What choice is that?
For the last 3 months or so, I can't even get into Orange 95% of the time. It has a cap of 340/300 or something for hours, and the times where it's smaller, it's not worth the 15 to 20 minutes trying to get into.
Same for many others who can't get into Orange and the only other choice (LW) means getting thrown into the sewer that is Blue.
It's especially fun in the Sewer Arena that one enemy has 15+ extra guys and the other has 35+...only token fighting between the two yet double and triple darbars from both on your front. Yes...give us more of the Sewer Arena.
Arena caps & ENY work perfectly well, right?
It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game.
ROX
Is there really a difference between the two servers? I've never noticed.
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Arena Split Good.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/Garth-and-Wayne-Skipping-wayne-27s-.jpg)
But arena caps are like waiting for the cars to go by in the street before you say, "GAME ON!"
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/cap954.jpg)
Wayne's World :rock
No way! Way!
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I have to ask this...before the arena split how come there were no major 'ufo' problems and darbar problems, but now on TT there are?
There were. But also keep in mind they made some major upgrades to the game code and how the servers work right around the time they split the LW'S UP.
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What choice is that?
For the last 3 months or so, I can't even get into Orange 95% of the time. It has a cap of 340/300 or something for hours, and the times where it's smaller, it's not worth the 15 to 20 minutes trying to get into.
Same for many others who can't get into Orange and the only other choice (LW) means getting thrown into the sewer that is Blue.
It's especially fun in the Sewer Arena that one enemy has 15+ extra guys and the other has 35+...only token fighting between the two yet double and triple darbars from both on your front. Yes...give us more of the Sewer Arena.
Arena caps & ENY work perfectly well, right?
It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game.
ROX
You base that last comment on what? I'd assume HTC would be able to make such a statement, but I don't know where any one player would have the stats to make such a statement.
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You base that last comment on what? I'd assume HTC would be able to make such a statement, but I don't know where any one player would have the stats to make such a statement.
Was wondering where he got that info too. My guess is the same place he gets most his info.........
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Arena caps are a pain when the unlimited cap change over to the primetime cap limit around 1pm est or so. That is when you see the 170/100 and 32/150 settings for the servers.
Otherwise, I don't see the big deal. Personally, HTC could really change the whole dynamic of the game by adding zone ENY with a steeper curve. This way, you couldn't take 50 guys to take a base.
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You base that last comment on what? I'd assume HTC would be able to make such a statement, but I don't know where any one player would have the stats to make such a statement.
People I have talked to, email, personal discussions over the last year.
We've lost a lot of log term vets over the last year because of it.
Statement is fact.
ROX
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We've lost a lot of log term vets over the last year because of it.
Statement is fact.
Sorry, I don't agree. What do you have to base that on? We lose people for various reasons. If there was a flight from the game in masses because of one single issue you can bet that issue would be changed.
There are many reasons why people leave, and return. Family, finances, burn-out, something changed in their life that doesn't permit it, some simply whine their way out of it (people you will never please). While they will deny burn-out they will look for a reasons. Some people quit the game like some people quit smoking. Blame it on whatever you choose, but it will continue as it always has. Next month it will be a different reason to blame it on.
People threatening to leave based on one issue is one way it won't be changed... "I'll leave if you don't change this..." has been a daily thing for well over a decade, in most games, and mostly ignored by habit.
If you know what's wrong you must know what's right. If you know what's right you have the right answer to fix it... I don't see many people offering very many working ideas. We can't just keep flipping switches to change the game, what you like may disturb many others. It's like growing a biosphere, do one thing wrong and the whole thing implodes, it's not very forgiving on mistakes. It's a science. Somethings are done based on limits. There MAY be reason why it can't be changed.
In a nut shell, the game works, I can fly, and I try to kill, and I have fun doing it. No matter if the cap changes or not.
IMO
Animl
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Is there really a difference between the two servers? I've never noticed.
I'd say there is a noticeable difference. whenever I go to Blue it seems to be mostly guys who have found Orange too hectic/difficult/confusing plus the few guys actually looking for a fight because they couldnt get into Orange. whatever your various definitions of dweeby are, there seems to be more of it in Blue. ymmv.
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Ya know, both in-game and on email, squad forums, off AH squad websites, people actually do communicate to others about things. The game, their jobs, their family, a number of things. Crazy isn't it? People actually use the internet to send messages and communicate? Who'd a thunk it?
Of those that email or PM--only a few have mentioned ecenomic reasons. One said his wife thought he was playing too much. But all of the rest cited the arena caps and being thrown into the sewer that is Blue.
People want to play with those they know and their squaddies. When they get locked out, and end up in a situation where they are grossly outnumbered and it's the Alamo every night--who can blame them for dropping their subs and going to another game?
Don't believe me? I personally could care less.
One business rule still rings true--if you don't service the customers you already have--they WILL go away.
ROX
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So in your circle of people you communicate with, it's the number 1 reason.
That's fine, I can live with that. I was just curious how you could speak for the entire community.
I do note that in your 17 man squad, every last one of them has played this month. Things can't be that bad if they have found reasons to continue playing :)
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Ya know, both in-game and on email, squad forums, off AH squad websites, people actually do communicate to others about things. The game, their jobs, their family, a number of things. Crazy isn't it? People actually use the internet to send messages and communicate? Who'd a thunk it?
Of those that email or PM--only a few have mentioned ecenomic reasons. One said his wife thought he was playing too much. But all of the rest cited the arena caps and being thrown into the sewer that is Blue.
People want to play with those they know and their squaddies. When they get locked out, and end up in a situation where they are grossly outnumbered and it's the Alamo every night--who can blame them for dropping their subs and going to another game?
Don't believe me? I personally could care less.
One business rule still rings true--if you don't service the customers you already have--they WILL go away.
ROX
My lord you are a drama queen.
Whether the subscriptions have gone up enough to warrant a higher arena cap for posterities sake, is up to the people that run the game. Any questions and/or comments you have should be directed AT THE PEOPLE THAT RUN THE GAME. This BBS whine "cuz I want it my way and I don't want to act like an adult about it" crap needs to be stopped. Issues like this should be directed with personal emails to HITECH, not an open call to arms on the BBS. A serious phone call or email about it might lend some weight to your thoughts. Flailing your arms and legs screaming "mommy mommy mommy" won't get any reception.
My god man, you want your binky? IT's A GAME.
I'm so happy your world is not cluttered by life, that you can cry about this.
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maybe different arena's should cost a different monthly fee to get in?
blue $15.00/month
orange $30.00/month
MA $50.00/month
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Was wondering where he got that info too. My guess is the same place he gets most his info.........
You mean where the Sun don't shine?
Honestly, what 'long time vet' quit because of the arena caps and/or ENY?
ack-ack
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Being a long time subscriber (so long I can't remember when I joined) I have seen AH grow from it's infancy with country rosters in the dozens (not hundreds) and one arena. HTC has constantly improved and the numbers on line every night is a measurement of their success. Many times one arena will be full and I've never had a problem finding a good fight in the other. I check back a few times when the numbers fall in the other arena and get in if I want.
Don't sweat the small stuff. :D
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People I have talked to, email, personal discussions over the last year.
We've lost a lot of log term vets over the last year because of it.
Statement is fact.
ROX
I've been here for quite some time and I have seen nothing that points to what you are claiming. I have seen some leave because of deteriorating game play (in their opinion), burn out, sickness in family and many other things in life but none in regards to eny or arena limits.
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Rox: The only fact you state is that you have talked to people who say that have left because of the arena limit.
There is no other fact in anything you say.
Do you really believe we are so naive as to not see , listen, look at all option possible, and that we do not monitor when and why people leave , how the current economics effect us.
The real facts are that, more people were leaving because of over crowding in 1 arena then leave because of the arena split.
The fact is this is not a small number of customers we now have because we made the split.
The split is not going to go away, the only thing that can changed based on new ideas is how the arena split is performed.
HiTech
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(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/cordell76/spanked.gif)
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Good words from a good businessman........ A business.......... A business? Oh Geez, HTC is a business! Who would have thunk it. And yes sir..... They do think you to be naive...... Waitinf for them to tell you. K.... Done kissing your tucos! But you are right!
Rox: The only fact you state is that you have talked to people who say that have left because of the arena limit.
There is no other fact in anything you say.
Do you really believe we are so naive as to not see , listen, look at all option possible, and that we do not monitor when and why people leave , how the current economics effect us.
The real facts are that, more people were leaving because of over crowding in 1 arena then leave because of the arena split.
The fact is this is not a small number of customers we now have because we made the split.
The split is not going to go away, the only thing that can changed based on new ideas is how the arena split is performed.
HiTech
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That's the reason I haven't played lately. Thinking of calling it quits myself. Now, make whatever you want to of it.
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So in your circle of people you communicate with, it's the number 1 reason.
That's fine, I can live with that. I was just curious how you could speak for the entire community.
I do note that in your 17 man squad, every last one of them has played this month. Things can't be that bad if they have found reasons to continue playing :)
Don't speak for the entire community. Never professed to. YOU said that.
Dude---get out of the cave and network once in a while. You might actually learn something about people, their families, how they play the game and their concerns about game issues.
Here is the copy & paste for THIS MONTH'S TOUR (The one you professed to quote):
77th FS "Gamblers"
Selected Tour: Late War Tour 112
Squad CO: ROX Number of Members: 17
Ranks
Game ID Overall Fighter Bomber Attack Veh/Boat
19kilo 102 731 290 121 318
Caddie N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Carbine 3261 3283 2240 1942 1671
CAV3 323 1742 56 717 227
DrPizza N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
HiVolt 2457 2811 2240 557 2056
jflorida 2691 2782 1573 1260 2424
Mar 3165 2283 2240 1942 2424
Matt77th 386 391 1382 375 872
Oracle 1133 1824 605 1942 852
phoenix 887 439 1573 1942 704
Rav3N 241 1280 219 226 638
ROX 904 1751 988 1464 502
SpazMan N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Stage2 1162 2913 773 728 882
starguy 734 981 1138 825 1276
SWAPLT 2441 3283 1573 1395 1387
If you don't like me--that sounds like you have a personal problem. Take it up with your shrink.
It might be nice if you took the time to get your facts straght though...oh wait...I forgot....it's DAN.
ROX
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Rox: The only fact you state is that you have talked to people who say that have left because of the arena limit.
There is no other fact in anything you say.
Do you really believe we are so naive as to not see , listen, look at all option possible, and that we do not monitor when and why people leave , how the current economics effect us.
The real facts are that, more people were leaving because of over crowding in 1 arena then leave because of the arena split.
The fact is this is not a small number of customers we now have because we made the split.
The split is not going to go away, the only thing that can changed based on new ideas is how the arena split is performed.
HiTech
We've lost 3 squaddies to the sewer that is Blue in the last 6 months and DrPizza has been MIA for months. I emailed them back letting them know there were no hard feelings. Two hopped sides because they were sick & tired of getting gangbanged and the huge numbers imbalances, another left the game to go play some other game because he refused to side hop.
Not one member of the squad hasn't felt extremely frustrated over the last year about the problem.
There ya go...HiTech says there's no problem--hence--no problem exists.
ROX
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There ya go...HiTech says there's no problem--hence--no problem exists.
ROX
More like saying ROX says there is a problem when one doesn't exist. So you've had 3 people leave your squadron, that hardly equates a long list of veterans leaving.
ack-ack
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Don't speak for the entire community. Never professed to. YOU said that.
Dude---get out of the cave and network once in a while. You might actually learn something about people, their families, how they play the game and their concerns about game issues.
ROX
Quoting you "It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game." You sure said it like you had the info. I asked you to clarify as I believed HTC would be the only one who could make such a blanket statement. You said it was from people YOU have talked to. So your statement wasn't based on fact based on any specific information, but going on what you'd heard from people you know which hardly speaks for the entire player base in AH.
<Points to Hitechs reply>
Asking a question to get a clarification hardly implies like or dislike ROX. I don't dislike anyone in AH. I don't have the time to, or would it be worth the effort as I don't know that many folks here well enough to put the energy into disliking them
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Quoting you "It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game." You sure said it like you had the info. I asked you to clarify as I believed HTC would be the only one who could make such a blanket statement. You said it was from people YOU have talked to. So your statement wasn't based on fact based on any specific information, but going on what you'd heard from people you know which hardly speaks for the entire player base in AH.
<Points to Hitechs reply>
Asking a question to get a clarification hardly implies like or dislike ROX. I don't dislike anyone in AH. I don't have the time to, or would it be worth the effort as I don't know that many folks here well enough to put the energy into disliking them
I said--in plain English--it was the #1 reason with the folks I talk with and network with, nothing more.
Please scroll up and re-read.
Inferring that I have some way to get at all the account list and speak for every single person who has left is insanely hogwash.
ALSO: Please exaplain the innacuracy of your quote on my squad, please.
ROX
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Honestly, what 'long time vet' quit because of the arena caps and/or ENY?
ack-ack
Can't think of 1 myself ... the BKs (who have quite a few "long time vets") are on the low at the moment and some of them have been for quite some time, but not one of them has put their stick aside because of the "arena split" ... real life and more than average sucky gameplay seems to be the most common reasons.
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It has a cap of 340/300 or something for hours,
This skipped past exagerration and went straight to lie.
Hitech claims people were leaving because there was only one arena.....ok. I guess I'll take his word for it but I hadn't heard anyone that did so. *shrug*
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I said--in plain English--it was the #1 reason with the folks I talk with and network with, nothing more.
Ummmm ... no ... this is what you said ...
It's the #1 reason why most long term paying subscribers I know have left the game.
Which is far more sweeping and general than your last (and changed) statement.
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Ummmm ... no ... this is what you said ...
Which is far more sweeping and general than your last (and changed) statement.
+1
Well, he equates his statement to what he knows. Which, demonstrably, isn't all that much.
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I can't imagine quitting the game because of caps. I love this dern game.
I got spanked by Hitech and Fugitve when I banged my head about arena caps the first time. * I even got scored on the Krusty meter :aok*My head still hurts cause I keep banging it in hopes of the caps being gone.
The choice of 2 areanas without caps at any time should give everyone the things I hear the caps are keeping them from.
1. A Choice when its MA Orange 197/150 MA Blue 32/150
2. A chance to fly with your squaddies anytime, instead of texting them in red that caps suck.
3. Not getting locked out of a good time if you loose connection.
*4. All the people that dread Titanic Tueday would always have another option.
*5. More people in the arena, more action would please what seems to be the majority.
6. the option to go to a small arena where FPS and evil fake darbars wont kill the game for you if that is what irks you.
*these two are the biggest complaint I have read as oppossed to caps.
I know there are threads and threads on this stuff, but it just seems like there wouldnt be a problem if the caps were gone and you had a choice.
Not even kidding here...I'm am starting to believe what everyone is telling me. I must not get it.
I'm going to hide behind my couch now. :uhoh
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I know there are threads and threads on this stuff, but it just seems like there wouldnt be a problem if the caps were gone and you had a choice.
This particular problem may be gone ... but another would only pop up in it's place ... and most likely the problem that caused the arena split in the first place ... unhealthy arenas.
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See Rule #4
HiTech
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In.
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Never heard of most of them. Why do you keep calling blue the sewer? That is just a retarded statement
I see some of the best players in the game in blue and they seem to be having fun.
The really silly statement you make is about not being able to get into Orange 95% of the time, only tells me
you either don't know how to or do not have the patients to wait a few minutes to get in. There has never been
a time that i have not been able to get in to any arena I wanted to if I just waited a few minutes. The Caps change all the time.
Don't speak for the entire community. Never professed to. YOU said that.
Dude---get out of the cave and network once in a while. You might actually learn something about people, their families, how they play the game and their concerns about game issues.
Here is the copy & paste for THIS MONTH'S TOUR (The one you professed to quote):
77th FS "Gamblers"
Selected Tour: Late War Tour 112
Squad CO: ROX Number of Members: 17
Ranks
Game ID Overall Fighter Bomber Attack Veh/Boat
19kilo 102 731 290 121 318
Caddie N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Carbine 3261 3283 2240 1942 1671
CAV3 323 1742 56 717 227
DrPizza N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
HiVolt 2457 2811 2240 557 2056
jflorida 2691 2782 1573 1260 2424
Mar 3165 2283 2240 1942 2424
Matt77th 386 391 1382 375 872
Oracle 1133 1824 605 1942 852
phoenix 887 439 1573 1942 704
Rav3N 241 1280 219 226 638
ROX 904 1751 988 1464 502
SpazMan N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Stage2 1162 2913 773 728 882
starguy 734 981 1138 825 1276
SWAPLT 2441 3283 1573 1395 1387
If you don't like me--that sounds like you have a personal problem. Take it up with your shrink.
It might be nice if you took the time to get your facts straght though...oh wait...I forgot....it's DAN.
ROX
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Here is the copy & paste for THIS MONTH'S TOUR (The one you professed to quote):
5 days into a new tour and only 3 people havent played yet...nice :noid
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Don't speak for the entire community. Never professed to. YOU said that.
Dude---get out of the cave and network once in a while. You might actually learn something about people, their families, how they play the game and their concerns about game issues.
Here is the copy & paste for THIS MONTH'S TOUR (The one you professed to quote):
77th FS "Gamblers"
Selected Tour: Late War Tour 112
Squad CO: ROX Number of Members: 17
Ranks
Game ID Overall Fighter Bomber Attack Veh/Boat
19kilo 102 731 290 121 318
Caddie N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Carbine 3261 3283 2240 1942 1671
CAV3 323 1742 56 717 227
DrPizza N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
HiVolt 2457 2811 2240 557 2056
jflorida 2691 2782 1573 1260 2424
Mar 3165 2283 2240 1942 2424
Matt77th 386 391 1382 375 872
Oracle 1133 1824 605 1942 852
phoenix 887 439 1573 1942 704
Rav3N 241 1280 219 226 638
ROX 904 1751 988 1464 502
SpazMan N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Stage2 1162 2913 773 728 882
starguy 734 981 1138 825 1276
SWAPLT 2441 3283 1573 1395 1387
If you don't like me--that sounds like you have a personal problem. Take it up with your shrink.
It might be nice if you took the time to get your facts straght though...oh wait...I forgot....it's DAN.
ROX
Rox.... he has more experience and knowledge of this type of game in the dirt under his pinky fingernail then you may have in your whole body. You're slamming one of the vets of vets. He's trying to be the voice of reason to you, from experience.
Allow your self to be enlightened sometimes, allow yourself to be wrong. I will bet both my nuts that 3 people from one squad leaving, for who actually knows what (we're just taking your word for it), is alarm enough to say we lost many vets to that problem. Most the people in this thread are long time old school vets.
Most vets have been through that issue and much more, if they are still vets their not likely leaving for this issue.
To be honest, I never have problem getting into an arena. All you have to do is wait till someone exits. That happens about every 3 minutes. If people are leaving because of this they prolly had no intention of staying in the first place.
<shrug>
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The real facts are that, more people were leaving because of over crowding in 1 arena then leave because of the arena split.
The fact is this is not a small number of customers we now have because we made the split.
The split is not going to go away, the only thing that can changed based on new ideas is how the arena split is performed.
HiTech
My Idea as I mentioned a few pages ago.
Leave one arena titanic Tuesday style.
And another arena open for those who do not like the over crowding.
Let the players decide where they want to be.
Perhaps use only large maps in the Titanic arena and only the small maps in the smaller arena.
That way you would be assured there would be at least some presence in the smaller arenas by those who do not like the larger maps as well as those who do not like the large crowds.
Again you would be allowing the players decide where they want to be and removing any whines for excuses on not liking the large crowds or the large/small maps.
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Drediock, I like your idea.
999000 <S>
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Drediock, I like your idea.
999000 <S>
+1
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The issue isn't about "I want to fly with my friends". The issue is "I want to fly with the hord".
If it was actually a problem of flying with friends then the logical solution would be to go to the less populated arena. One would infer that a lower populated arena with the larger cap would be easier for a larger group to get into all at once.
But noooooo. The actual issue is "I want to be where everyone else is." It has nothing to do with friends or squads flying together. It's all about "if everyone else is there, it must be better...."
How can we prove this? Reset Orange at 7am. Leave Blue alone. People logging on see Orange at 55/400 and Blue at 150/400 and start filling up Blue because that's where everyone is. I witnessed this one morning after a late night reset of Orange one Monday morning. Same map in Blue that had "sucked" all week was suddenly the fuller arena because that's where everyone was.
How could having one arena "Titanic" all the time help? Again, everyone would go there because that's where everyone was. The other arena would be empty.
IIRC the way the split was supposed to work was for squads who wanted to fly together to choose "their" particular arena and stick to it. Squad A would always fly Blue. That way the entire squad would always know where to meet. Squad B would choose to always fly Orange, etc. Unfortunately, with two arenas that really have no distinguishing features other than numbers, there is no incentive to choose one arena over the other.
Air Warrior had squads that chose to fly in specific arenas because there were specific plane sets and maps in the different arenas, Pacific in one, ETO in another. Separate and distinguishable.
The real problem with the "overcrowding" situation is easily solvable if people actually took the initiative to do so other than whine about it. Go to the other arena.
Of course, the problem I see with the "go to the other arena" idea is it would suddenly have more people in it and everyone else would want to be there too.
wrongway
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How is Blue a sewer? Just because it's the "2nd" arena? Gameplay in Blue tends to be better because of the <gasp> smaller number of players it generally has in primetime. Sewer?
:rolleyes:
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My Idea as I mentioned a few pages ago.
Leave one arena titanic Tuesday style.
And another arena open for those who do not like the over crowding.
Let the players decide where they want to be.
Perhaps use only large maps in the Titanic arena and only the small maps in the smaller arena.
That way you would be assured there would be at least some presence in the smaller arenas by those who do not like the larger maps as well as those who do not like the large crowds.
Again you would be allowing the players decide where they want to be and removing any whines for excuses on not liking the large crowds or the large/small maps.
While this sounds like a great idea, I have to agree with wrongway, it just won't work.
Dred, I don't remember if you were here, or on a break when the arenas were first split, but, Like now, when you logged in the default setup had you highlighting the EW arena. For the first week its were everyone was flying! Some didn't notice that you had to select another arena, and the rest just looked at where the numbers were.
If they set up the arenas like you propose everyone would just go into the TT arena, not because thats what they like, but because thats where the numbers are. All that would do would be to bring back the super hordes again along with all the poor game play that was causing people to cancel their subscriptions, which is why HTC split the arenas in the first place.
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Leave the cap but give squadies of players logged into over caped arenas ability to log in anyways.
Problem with the cap is that it is splitting people that are here to play together.
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Leave the cap but give squadies of players logged into over caped arenas ability to log in anyways.
Wouldn't that essentially remove the caps? Most players are member of a squad, and many players are members of huge squads.
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Arena caps are fine the way they are.
I have NEVER had to wait more than 5 or so minutes to get into a specific arena EVER!!
People these days just don't seem to have any patience.
They want what they want and they want it now!!
Its pathetic.
I can imagine HT reading these BBs everyday and just shaking his head in disbelief.
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I'm alright Jack
you may only have to wait 5mins, others have to try for significantly longer. its a complex function of rising/falling/stable overall numbers and the ratio of players in orange/blue.
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Leave the cap but give squadies of players logged into over caped arenas ability to log in anyways.
Problem with the cap is that it is splitting people that are here to play together.
Make your squad's arena of choice the smaller arena.
But, like I said before, if one or two squads do the logical thing, everyone will want to go where they are because, suddenly, the less populated arena isn't the less populated arena any more.
wrongway
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Make your squad's arena of choice the smaller arena.
But, like I said before, if one or two squads do the logical thing, everyone will want to go where they are because, suddenly, the less populated arena isn't the less populated arena any more.
wrongway
There's the problem of the faint-hope clause (variable arena capacities) mitigating against that. I'd rather see fixed arena caps - it would take awhile for the player base to get used to the idea but it would promote the idea of players and squadrons establishing home arenas better than the current system. I don't see HTC doing this at any point in the near future, so blue will remain to a large degree the transient camp where players hold while waiting for a slot in orange to open up.
I think for the most part that the arena caps system works as HTC wants it to, but it is badly presented IMO. At first glance the ratios on the arenas screen can appear nonsensical and confusing, and that really should be fixed. I think just showing the remaining available slots in the arena or showing "Full" when it's at capacity rather than the ratios would likely be a better way to go.
my $0.02
asw
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I think for the most part that the arena caps system works as HTC wants it to, but it is badly presented IMO. At first glance the ratios on the arenas screen can appear nonsensical and confusing, and that really should be fixed. I think just showing the remaining available slots in the arena or showing "Full" when it's at capacity rather than the ratios would likely be a better way to go.
my $0.02
asw
This is very true. Showing a "FULL" arena instead of 125/100 would probably cut down on the frustration of many who cannot get into an arena who perceive that somehow others have "beat the system" and gotten into an arena despite the cap.
wrongway
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This is very true. Showing a "FULL" arena instead of 125/100 would probably cut down on the frustration of many who cannot get into an arena who perceive that somehow others have "beat the system" and gotten into an arena despite the cap.
wrongway
It may, but I like the ratios as they are, because I can tell how many more people have to go into Blue, and how many have to leave Orange, vice versa.
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It may, but I like the ratios as they are, because I can tell how many more people have to go into Blue, and how many have to leave Orange, vice versa.
The solution is simple. One arena with maps small enough so the hordes cannot hide from each other. The big maps is what brought on the horde mentaility. There's room for the hordelings to up their NOE misisons far away from any concentration from the enemy. Back to the smaller maps... the hordes must fight.
The problem with this solution is that there are lots of paying customers flying in the horde.
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LWO = Large maps only
LWB = Small maps only
Would make arenas at least a bit different and player/squads would finally have at least a small reason to make a certain arena their virtual home.
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LWO = Large maps only
LWB = Small maps only
Would make arenas at least a bit different and player/squads would finally have at least a small reason to make a certain arena their virtual home.
I like this one!
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I find the smaller maps more competitive. Baltic is my favorite map.
Larger maps...when I log on sometimes I just look at the map and darbars....then say nope
and log off.
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Good work guys ..some really good ideas!
999000 <S>
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Yeah this arnea cap is getting old ... it took me almost 20mins to get into orange tonight!
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Rox: The only fact you state is that you have talked to people who say that have left because of the arena limit.
There is no other fact in anything you say.
HiTech
(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/ahss20.bmp)
Screen shot taken May 6, 2009 8:21:51 PM CDST
ROX
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Where does that screenshot show the long list of AH veterans you claim to have left due to the split arenas and ENY? HiTech is correct, like in every post you've made, there has been absolutely no fact in anything you've said.
ack-ack
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This skipped past exagerration and went straight to lie.
Hitech claims people were leaving because there was only one arena.....ok. I guess I'll take his word for it but I hadn't heard anyone that did so. *shrug*
(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/ahss20.bmp)
Screen Shot May 6, 2009 8:21:51 PM CDST
BTW: It has nothing to do with split arenas. It DOES have everything to do with if you can't get into Orange (like MANY people) especially during North America "lunch" times and then again in North America Prime Time...you get thrown into Blue. If you fly knights...it's the Alamo. This doesn't effect you personally because you switch sides. I don't.
BBTW: I don't expect you to apologize--I know you don't have the nads to.
ROX
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Where does that screenshot show the long list of AH veterans you claim to have left due to the split arenas and ENY? HiTech is correct, like in every post you've made, there has been absolutely no fact in anything you've said.
ack-ack
You are dense. :rolleyes:
Please RE-READ my post.
I NEVER said I had a "long list". I said I know a guys who are fed up with Blue and have left...including Squadies.
Hey--if they get frustrated and bail to Fighter Ace, it's their personal choice.
ROX
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Can you hear that sound folks? It's the sound of ROX back peddling.
ack-ack
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10 mins later
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8533/clipboard01dmv.jpg)
It DOES have everything to do with if you can't get into Orange (like MANY people) especially during North America "lunch" times and then again in North America Prime Time...you get thrown into Blue. If you fly knights...it's the Alamo.
If I was malicious, I would emphasize the fact that you just seem to be not wanting to fly (grammar?) in the arena where your fellow Knight countrymen could need your help the most.
But that would be pure speculation on my part. ;)
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I think you can just say 'seem to not want to fly'
And those aren't the real Knights. They do not have hearts of Navy SEALs.
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I think you can just say 'seem to not want to fly'
And those aren't the real Knights. They do not have hearts of Navy SEALs.
LOL.
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I think you can just say 'seem to not want to fly'
And those aren't the real Knights. They do not have hearts of Navy SEALs.
1) Thank you. O wish there was a "grammar check" button too
2) Dang! I forgot - Blue is the sewer... must be the Knights with pretty low self-esteem that are playing there...
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LWO = Large maps only
LWB = Small maps only
Would make arenas at least a bit different and player/squads would finally have at least a small reason to make a certain arena their virtual home.
:aok Sounds great as long as there are no caps.
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Let's do more then just a small and large map.
Make one arena, limited base capture so that 'winning the war' isn't the emphasis. While still part of the environment, it's not the be all, end all.
Make the other arena, total conquest, win the war no matter what.
See what kind of community develops in each and what kind of personality the arena's end up with.
My guess is, the total war arena would be the higher populated to start as that's what folks know. But I'd also believe that over time as folks wanted to get more into the ACM part of the game and get beyond the safety in numbers bit, they'd move over. I'd imagine it would be a bit like the old RR vs FR was in AW.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to see who went where.
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lol Rox has some odd love for orange it seems.
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Let's do more then just a small and large map.
Make one arena, limited base capture so that 'winning the war' isn't the emphasis. While still part of the environment, it's not the be all, end all.
Make the other arena, total conquest, win the war no matter what.
See what kind of community develops in each and what kind of personality the arena's end up with.
My guess is, the total war arena would be the higher populated to start as that's what folks know. But I'd also believe that over time as folks wanted to get more into the ACM part of the game and get beyond the safety in numbers bit, they'd move over. I'd imagine it would be a bit like the old RR vs FR was in AW.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to see who went where.
:aok :aok
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lol Rox has some odd love for orange it seems.
I think because someone in the Blue Arena took his lunch money and gave him a swirly in the senior's bathroom. I heard those guys in the Blue Arena are real bullies.
ack-ack
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Let's do more then just a small and large map.
Make one arena, limited base capture so that 'winning the war' isn't the emphasis. While still part of the environment, it's not the be all, end all.
Make the other arena, total conquest, win the war no matter what.
See what kind of community develops in each and what kind of personality the arena's end up with.
My guess is, the total war arena would be the higher populated to start as that's what folks know. But I'd also believe that over time as folks wanted to get more into the ACM part of the game and get beyond the safety in numbers bit, they'd move over. I'd imagine it would be a bit like the old RR vs FR was in AW.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to see who went where.
Yep, been sayin something similar since I've been back.
just sayin again. :)
Animl
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Wasn't limited base capture the final straw that killed off FA?
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I would love to see an uncapped LWM arena in conjunction with the current two we have.
Or at least smaller maps across the board.
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Wasn't limited base capture the final straw that killed of FA?
I'm only talking about having it in one of the two LW arenas, while the other would be overall conquest of the map.
Right now you have EW with low numbers, MW with low numbers, and the two LW arenas. You could probably eliminate the EW and MW arenas, as in the end I think the idea was to promote a different fight. MW can have some good fights, but I'd believe those guys would end up in the limited capture arena where air combat is more the focus, while the guys who like to grab bases would be in the other conquest of the map arena.
It's really a division of the two most vocal groups. Nothing stopping from bouncing to either arena then, and no reason to gripe. Tough to blame the furballers if they are in another arena duking it out and tough to blame the base takers for ruining the fight if there is nothing to ruin.
Let two communities develop within the overall game of AH. Most of us could probably name the squads that would go to either arena so you know you'd have both populated right away. I'd like to think more squad to squad rivalries would develop, in particular in an air combat environment where you know sneaking a base isn't going to happen or there is any motivation to go around a fight to try and win the map.
That's not mean to be a criticism of the guys who want to win the war btw. They'd be hard at it in the other arena and there'd be no reason to criticize it as winning he war would be the goal.
Thinking about it a bit more. It would probably promote more high alt combat since the tactial part of the airwar would be less emphasized in a limited capture arena. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I know guys have talked about birds like the 152 or even the 51 and Jug that were built for combat higher up. I'm on the deck most of the time, so they'd never see me, but it might change the nature of some of the air combat. Whens the last time anyone ran a fighter sweep looking for another group of fighters?
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Thinking about it a bit more. It would probably promote more high alt combat since the tactial part of the airwar would be less emphasized in a limited capture arena.
I remember, when the limited capture mode (path of advance thing) was tested in LWB two (three?) years ago, the fights went quickly higher and higher. Not so much because of the limtied tactical part as such, but as all forces were concentrated into a small area and a race for altitude began.
Was actually the only aspect I did like about that setup. ;)
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I remember, when the limited capture mode (path of advance thing) was tested in LWB two (three?) years ago, the fights went quickly higher and higher. Not so much because of the limtied tactical part as such, but as all forces were concentrated into a small area and a race for altitude began.
Was actually the only aspect I did like about that setup. ;)
I'm not even talking path of advance. I guess I'm probably thinking of the old AW map where it was just those three bases that could be captured and there were massive fights over them all the time. if you got a foothold, you had to defend it. They were just there to help produce the fight. Guess I'm just being nostalgic :)
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I would love to see an uncapped LWM arena in conjunction with the current two we have.
Or at least smaller maps across the board.
You won't see an uncapped arena with a capped arena. What would be the point of the second arena? The heard goes where the rest of the heard is.
Small map in one, large in the other, progressive base taking in one, not in the other, where ever the crowd is, that's where everyone will want to be.
I see interesting ideas though.
:aok
wrongway
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I wonder if there's something that everyone might be missing....
How many people do you actually see in other than the 2 LW Arena's? 10 people? 20?
Does that tell you anything about numbers? If folks really wanted to go into small arena's be it big or small sized maps then why don't we see even numbers across the board? Hmmm, there's more people flying in the DA on most nights than in the other arenas.
As silly as it seems you might find alot of people would actually like to be meet each other in one big arena and have fun there iso waiting until they numbers to get in "change".
Ref limited capture. What's wrong with winning a war? There are many people with that as their nightly objective. If that's what floats their boat, why not if it gives them a reason to come in and play. Just because I don't happen to jump up and down when someone sets up a mission to take a field doesn't mean its not alot of fun for many other folks.
While it won't happen it's interesting to note that someone like NB might be able to actually build a map that had a large area for the big wars, seperated by an ocean which goes to another area that has a DA area, again seperated by another ocean that has a mid war area, etc. Even a dedicated GV area BESIDES the normal GV field at all the fields. Everyone shows up in one arena then goes and does their thing. Simply do away with arenas that only have 10-20 peope in them in favor of one big one in which they can still fly their planesets. I'd bet it's not much more difficult than having the upkeep on the multiple arena's. It's a simple affair to only allow certain type planes at certain fields. Ah well....wishful thinking.
Ren
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I wonder if there's something that everyone might be missing....
How many people do you actually see in other than the 2 LW Arena's? 10 people? 20?
Does that tell you anything about numbers? If folks really wanted to go into small arena's be it big or small sized maps then why don't we see even numbers across the board? Hmmm, there's more people flying in the DA on most nights than in the other arenas.
As silly as it seems you might find alot of people would actually like to be meet each other in one big arena and have fun there iso waiting until they numbers to get in "change".
Ref limited capture. What's wrong with winning a war? There are many people with that as their nightly objective. If that's what floats their boat, why not if it gives them a reason to come in and play. Just because I don't happen to jump up and down when someone sets up a mission to take a field doesn't mean its not alot of fun for many other folks.
While it won't happen it's interesting to note that someone like NB might be able to actually build a map that had a large area for the big wars, seperated by an ocean which goes to another area that has a DA area, again seperated by another ocean that has a mid war area, etc. Even a dedicated GV area BESIDES the normal GV field at all the fields. Everyone shows up in one arena then goes and does their thing. Simply do away with arenas that only have 10-20 peope in them in favor of one big one in which they can still fly their planesets. I'd bet it's not much more difficult than having the upkeep on the multiple arena's. It's a simple affair to only allow certain type planes at certain fields. Ah well....wishful thinking.
Ren
If you are responding to my talk of limited capture, I was suggesting the two LW arenas include one that's geared to winning the war, and one that's limited capture. Not trying to stop anyone from anything, just playing to the different crowds. I think it might develop to seperate communities that can overlap but develop differently is all.
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I wonder if there's something that everyone might be missing....
How many people do you actually see in other than the 2 LW Arena's? 10 people? 20?
Does that tell you anything about numbers? If folks really wanted to go into small arena's be it big or small sized maps then why don't we see even numbers across the board? Hmmm, there's more people flying in the DA on most nights than in the other arenas.
As silly as it seems you might find alot of people would actually like to be meet each other in one big arena and have fun there iso waiting until they numbers to get in "change".
Ref limited capture. What's wrong with winning a war? There are many people with that as their nightly
objective. If that's what floats their boat, why not if it gives them a reason to come in and play. Just because I don't happen to jump up and down when someone sets up a mission to take a field doesn't mean its not alot of fun for many other folks.
While it won't happen it's interesting to note that someone like NB might be able to actually build a map that had a large area for the big wars, seperated by an ocean which goes to another area that has a DA area, again seperated by another ocean that has a mid war area, etc. Even a dedicated GV area BESIDES the normal GV field at all the fields. Everyone shows up in one arena then goes and does their thing. Simply do away with arenas that only have 10-20 peope in them in favor of one big one in which they can still fly their planesets. I'd bet it's not much more difficult than having the upkeep on the multiple arena's. It's a simple affair to only allow certain type planes at certain fields. Ah well....wishful thinking.
Ren
One reason I don't hang out long in Mid-War is 5 to 10 people can control Game play. Going after easy targets. If it was Different from the MA ( Town down in 5 min base taken in 10 ). Off to the other undefended base rinse repeat. I think thats more the reason people don't hang out in there then any other
Crims
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Many don't hang out in MW because without their uber LW ride they can't land kills.
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Many don't hang out in MW because without their uber LW ride they can't land kills.
Beware.
The same thing used to be said by AvA afficionados.
- oldman
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I'm just curious as to when, if ever this arena capping system is going to be taken away, or
at least set to numbers which could perhaps be justified (cough).
It's Thursday afternoon on the East coast, 1PM, and we've got the usual Titanic
Tuesday mess for a map. There are 134 people in the entire arena, yet I can't log
into it because it's capped.
My options are another full sized arena with 20 folks in it, spread over three countries,
or the midwar arena with all six pilots in there.
Just out of curiosity has anybody from HTC ever addressed the reasons for
such ridiculous and arbitrary arena limits such as this?
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Just out of curiosity has anybody from HTC ever addressed the reasons for
such ridiculous and arbitrary arena limits such as this?
Yes.
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Just out of curiosity has anybody from HTC ever addressed the reasons for
such ridiculous and arbitrary arena limits such as this?
Yeah they did and it's IMHO a strictly knee-jerk reaction.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Beware.
The same thing used to be said by AvA afficionados.
- oldman
AVA died because they changed it from a good setup.
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AVA died because they changed it from a good setup.
Too many details for me. Could you simplify your statement a bit? I really hate to read these walls of text.
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I wonder if there's something that everyone might be missing....
How many people do you actually see in other than the 2 LW Arena's? 10 people? 20?
Does that tell you anything about numbers? If folks really wanted to go into small arena's be it big or small sized maps then why don't we see even numbers across the board? Hmmm, there's more people flying in the DA on most nights than in the other arenas.
As silly as it seems you might find alot of people would actually like to be meet each other in one big arena and have fun there iso waiting until they numbers to get in "change".
Ref limited capture. What's wrong with winning a war? There are many people with that as their nightly objective. If that's what floats their boat, why not if it gives them a reason to come in and play. Just because I don't happen to jump up and down when someone sets up a mission to take a field doesn't mean its not alot of fun for many other folks.
While it won't happen it's interesting to note that someone like NB might be able to actually build a map that had a large area for the big wars, seperated by an ocean which goes to another area that has a DA area, again seperated by another ocean that has a mid war area, etc. Even a dedicated GV area BESIDES the normal GV field at all the fields. Everyone shows up in one arena then goes and does their thing. Simply do away with arenas that only have 10-20 peope in them in favor of one big one in which they can still fly their planesets. I'd bet it's not much more difficult than having the upkeep on the multiple arena's. It's a simple affair to only allow certain type planes at certain fields. Ah well....wishful thinking.
Ren
Maybe have a similar based squad night in the AVA. Like seeing if 2 base taking squads or furballers want to go at it. And full plane set. I myself would have fun with a midway map. Would be hilarious to see some of those 60+ member squads go at it. :aok
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"My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!"
nuff said
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"My god would you please quit with the arena crap Hitech!"
nuff said
"May the circle remain unbroken, by and by HTC, by and by"
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simple solution to arena cap Just open it all day to like 0/600
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boo hoo! :cry
:lol
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Many don't hang out in MW because without their uber LW ride they can't land kills.
that is so true
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One small note of interest....
On TT what are the actual numbers in the TT arena vs the other arenas.
In other words, it's been running for awhile now so there should be stats on numbers for all the arena's.
Does the number change drastically in other arenas on TT?
The number of folks in the TT arena goes up to 600-650 (or appears to), sometimes more? Does this mean folks go there because they have no place else to go (a life?) one day a week or because they like being able to go in and play with their buddy's iso being blocked from entering the rest of the week?
While I don't presume to understand just why or how HTC decides on any particular cap it would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if all the arenas where left "as is" but have just one LW Arena (Orange or Blue, does it matter?) left uncapped.
I wonder if the numbers would set themselves to a nightly 600-650 people while leaving the other arena with smaller numbers. Taking that a step farther, if that was the case, then the other "little used" arena might be reconfigured for some other type of game play which might not only keep all the "Big Arena" crowds happy but the specific play gaming types would also have a home. That might also increase the player base because the crowds are happy the specific players are happy, EW, MW, LW sumtin, LW BA (Big Arena).
It's also one thing to take a look at hard facts (stats) and another to listen to the squeeky wheel. Think about it. 30-40 players talking on the forum is not the huge database of folks flying we see every night flying in the different arenas.
Just thinking out loud.
Ren
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The problem seems to be with the hard cap number that HTC has decided..... using those "facts/data" they only have access to..... is 400-450. They have decided that anything over that creates a poor community. I have to agree, with the larger numbers game play certainly has suffered. But, what is the solution?
I would spend more time in either EW or MW if the numbers were higher, or in AvA if the numbers where higher and the "AVA attitude" was gone, but I am looking for a fight. I've heard a lot of other say the same, but I guess we are not all logged in att he same time :D
A very large percentage of todays players are in it to win the game, or just to be with "the rest of the players" because if "everyone" is in LW it MUST be the place to be. It doesn't hurt that the "uber" rides are there, but I would bet that if you took out all the 5-10 ENY planes you would STILL have most of the people flying in LW..... its that herd mentality.
I don't really have an issue with the caps, and rarely run into a problem. If one LW is full I try the other. If game play sucks or nothing is going on, I'll try out MW, or spend some time getting horded in the DA. Either way, with what limited time I get to play these days I can still find something to do. There is nothing special in that one arena that I'm missing out on. Gone are the days where I have trouble shutting down the game to get some sleep.
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The problem seems to be with the hard cap number that HTC has decided..... using those "facts/data" they only have access to..... is 400-450. They have decided that anything over that creates a poor community.
If that was the case why is there a TT? Obviously not to placate 200 people. They're actually placating 600-650 people who "prefer" to fly in there. That's why those folks are in there. Not to go to the MW or another arena. Without even asking for nor expecting info it's pretty clear the "facts" show 600-650 people are in TT every week. Those same 600+ people don't have to look elsewhere for their fun nor log off because they couldn't get in. They get to enjoy playing a game they've spent their hard earned money on. To repeat for clarity; not "go somewhere else or log off".
I guess the real food for thought is if these 600+ people are congregating in one arena and it makes them happy then why not? Something is drawing them there and not to the other arena's. Now that I think about it, doesn't it seem very strange to log into a game only to get a message that in essence says, " sorry you can't play here tonight, look elsewhere for fun".
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Yes they do!
Now where's that Minnesota nice triple 9's! :)
Was thinking the same thing...sounds like 999 needs a little break.
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I agree with 999000. The arena caps are idiotic. Instead of punishing bad behaviour (ie, you can't log in here) why don't you reward good behaviour (If you log into low numbers map, you get more perkies per flight(?)).
Point is, try to encourage people to level the arenas, instead of limiting their choice.
It's so frustrating when you can't fly with squadmates because they are writing from the other arena 'I can't get in, its 203/200'.
I pay for their servers, I should be able to fly on whatever map I choose. Is the guy that logged on earlier before the cap got filled any better then I am? I believe he pays just as much as I do.
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When I can't get in an arena, I feel like this guy is snickering at me...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/bridgekeeper.jpg)
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A very large percentage of todays players are in it to win the game, or just to be with "the rest of the players" because if "everyone" is in LW it MUST be the place to be. It doesn't hurt that the "uber" rides are there, but I would bet that if you took out all the 5-10 ENY planes you would STILL have most of the people flying in LW..... its that herd mentality.
I guess this game is as much social interraction to me as it is a fighter combat game. As much as I enjoy a good fight, I also enjoy the friendly banter amongst my squaddies, friends, and foes while in between the fights. For this reason, I can say that I'm part of the Herd Mentality.
If anything, I'd think all the people that want the hard core 1 on 1 uber fight Top Gun gentlemans duels would preffer no caps. That way all of us sheep could go have our fun playing the game wrong, and you guys could go to the TopGun arena and ACM your aces off.
I do like flying against LW planes. It doesnt mean I take them out every sortie. I had more flights in an early war ride than any other last tour. I do like flying w/ squaddies. Land grabbing isnt important to me, but that aspect of the game is something I enjoy being a part of. Whether it is doing a fighter sweep to make a darbar go limp, or switching sides to capture a base to encourage a better fight, I'll do it.
But for the most part, I just like to log on and go fly w/ my buddies. The only thing that ever stops me are caps.
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If that was the case why is there a TT? Obviously not to placate 200 people. They're actually placating 600-650 people who "prefer" to fly in there. That's why those folks are in there. Not to go to the MW or another arena. Without even asking for nor expecting info it's pretty clear the "facts" show 600-650 people are in TT every week. Those same 600+ people don't have to look elsewhere for their fun nor log off because they couldn't get in. They get to enjoy playing a game they've spent their hard earned money on. To repeat for clarity; not "go somewhere else or log off".
I guess the real food for thought is if these 600+ people are congregating in one arena and it makes them happy then why not? Something is drawing them there and not to the other arena's. Now that I think about it, doesn't it seem very strange to log into a game only to get a message that in essence says, " sorry you can't play here tonight, look elsewhere for fun".
Like I said, if it isn't the herd mentality, its the uber rides that seem to draw them to LW....whether its one arena or two. As to why it was split, and why we have a TT you would have to ask HTC about that for the real answer. From what I've read, the split was in answer to what HTC called "poor community" (as posted by PYRO)and again "some say" large numbers of canceled accounts. As for TT my guess is it was to quite the whiners, or as a test to see how the large arena works out now.
Any game has its limitations. Here 400-450 seems to be the number the company has chosen, others are at 1000, but both get there share of people saying its the wrong number. Its the same as with the "ditch rule", get just one wheel off the runway and its a ditch. Some can live with it, while others have all kinds of suggestions as to how it should be. HTC made the rules I just try to have fun with in them. It use to be very easy, now its more tricky to do so, but I guess thats the price we pay.
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Continuing the thinking process.....
I'm not so sure that it really matters what each individual's reason is for going to an arena. When 600+ show up in an arena for whatever reason, that's saying something and there's no getting around it. It makes one wonder how many more people would show up in the game if 600+ showed every night in one arena plus the other arenas get their normal influx of players iso those who logoff and watch TV or go elsewhere. Personally, I think this is a great game with lots of great peeps. I really hate to think some of those have left for their own reasons which might include not being able to get into an arena on any given night. It can degrade the game to lose anyone who might have contributed to the fun, both for themselves and others.
Ren
disclaimer: views expressed during this forum discussion are by one player and should be taken as such, nothing more.
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I'm with 999000 on this one. Arena Caps suck. Can't tell ya how many times I've been running squad ops and get disco'd or stick needs re-cal'd and come back and every squaddy is in an arena I can't log into. It's complete BS.
Eny is one thing I can live with. Arena Caps just piss everyone off. I've lost 2 Squaddies that have just simply quit because they can't play where they want.
Titanic Tuesday (aka LagTuesday or Phantom Dot Tuesday) is also a Joke. Either the servers or the Software can't handle it, So why have it?
Just MHO
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It's all been fixed!! Woohooo :aok
Just a funny pic on an abnormal day. I know somethings going on at HTC, can't wait to find out what it is...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/ahss157.jpg)
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Once again, Saturday June 6th, Servers down all day. Finally at 10pm I decide to try again.
Finally it's working.
Orange Capped out 323/300.
Forced to fly Blue Arena 212/350
Enter arena...type .sr and All 8 other squaddies are in Orange Arena. :mad:
Absolutely pisses me off to no end.
Edit:
Just got pm'ed that another squaddie just entered Orange at 330/350
So I bail from a perfectly good perk ride before it changes.
Switch over, capped out again. 332/300
OK, screw this. Think I'll go beat my head against a wall. :mad: :mad:
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Shawk...I feel your pain!...I really don't get it (Areana caps)..I guess I'm just to stupid to understand.
999000 <S>
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Totally agreed that that caps suck...... the worst case Ive seen to date happened to me on Friday.
open AH........ Orange 105/100 Blue 104/150
go into Blue........ crappy map that I dislike
Try to go into Orange again 107/100 Blue 103/150
spent 20 minutes waiting for orange to open.
Everytime someone starts a thread about arena caps it always goes the same way..... and inevitably someone always says we should just fly in blue and make the arenas even..... its our duty to keep the arenas even.
My response to that is simple........... I PAY FOR THIS SERVICE........ I dont pay for it so I can be second fiddle to a stupid rule that says I cant use part of the service part of the time...... I pay for full service full time period.
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Everything that is available in Orange is available in Blue, your not missing out on anything.
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thank you just the patent response I was looking for..........
when you pay my $15 Ill go to whatever arena you want.........
while I still pay my $15 I expect the option to get in orange at MY discretion
and yes there is something in orange Im missing.......... I dont want to play on the map in blue
again MY $15 I can decide which maps I like and dont like
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Everything that is available in Orange is available in Blue, your not missing out on anything.
Fugitive. <S>. I guess we will never agree on this topic.
When the cap is on in an arena that has 160 in it and you have to go to an arena with 40...well, do you still stick to your quote?
I just don't understand how reducing both arenas to 100 people in the middle of the day is better than having 2 arenas open to everyone.
You yourself have said the game's performance suffers after about 400-450 people are on a server. I think it suffers when the cap is on and the arena is reduced from 160 to 100. I don't think I've found anything better in a less populated arena that I couldn't find in a crowded one. If I found that the performance was an issue, Id go to the other arena.
I guess in a way you are right.... when both arenas are evened out, you are not missing out on anything....they both have been diluted.
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I do not buy the argument that everyone thinks that flying with squad mates is the most important thing to people, I do believe that people like to use this as an excuse to complain about not being able to get in the most populated arena. In reality they want to fly in the most populated arena with their squad, but each person in the squad is saying that it is more important to them to fly in the higher populated arena, hence why they are in the most populated arena.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand all it would take for a squad to agree to always fly together is that they all agree to fly in the 2nd arena on the list.
HiTech
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you just got owned WTG HiTech :salute
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It does not take a rocket scientist to understand all it would take for a squad to agree to always fly together is that they all agree to fly in the 2nd arena on the list.
HiTech
Too much common sense Sir, too much! :D
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It does not take a rocket scientist to understand
Arena CAPs Blow IMHO.
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yes, they do.... :aok
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We fly BLUE mainly for this reason!!! Although the SPEIRhead's will say it's because we like to kill the easier competition.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand all it would take for a squad to agree to always fly together is that they all agree to fly in the 2nd arena on the list.
HiTech
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I do not buy the argument that everyone thinks that flying with squad mates is the most important thing to people, I do believe that people like to use this as an excuse to complain about not being able to get in the most populated arena. In reality they want to fly in the most populated arena with their squad, but each person in the squad is saying that it is more important to them to fly in the higher populated arena, hence why they are in the most populated arena.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand all it would take for a squad to agree to always fly together is that they all agree to fly in the 2nd arena on the list.
HiTech
Hi HiTech,
First, congrats on making a great game.
When 4 of your squad mates are in the capped arena, and you just logged on and have to enter blue b/c of the caps, they will not change arenas for you. This might be because they are either in a fight, or just have taken off. The normal response is to keep trying to get into Orange.
This problem gets magnified if you log on for one flight. I understand this isn't a problem for a person who can play for a couple of hours, as he can simply wait for the caps to change.
I'm not sure why you don't buy this argument if its been echoed by many people.
Instead, why not give people a true choice on where they would like to go? Or going further, reward them for choosing the less populated arena if this is the desired result.
That's my 0.02
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Saantana: Reread what I said, no where did I say your squad should have to switch arenas for you, what I said was everyone in you squad should log into blue from the start. If it is so important for you squad to fly together, then if as everyone logs on they go to blue, you should have no problem.
In fact if all squads did this , there would be no need for floating arena caps. But that is not human nature.
HiTech
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Now if I could just get everyone in my squad to show up at the exact same time as me...
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Now if I could just get everyone in my squad to show up at the exact same time as me...
If you learn that trick please pass it on! :lol
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All the score potatos go into Blue.
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Obviously HiTech has never tried to organize squad ops. Arena caps make this almost impossible. The population of the arenas has nothing to do with my arguement. Because of "Floating" arena caps the most populated arena will switch over the period of an hour.
Dale try this sometime . Get 8 squaddies together, organize a run. Get booted for whatever reason, then try to re-join the so-called run in progress. 80% of the time, it's not gonna happen. Camaraderie is probably the #1 reason many fly this game, I know it is for myself. So quit trying to think that EVERYONE is here just so they can create a horde and get easy kills. This may be true for many, but NOT for all. I for one usually fight against the horde when possible.
I'm not trying to act like I know the answer to the lopsided numbers problem. But it seems to me if you have an arena capped at 300 with 130 bishops 85 knights and 85 Rooks. And no one can log into it, the problem isn't being solved.
Maybe try this, use the above scenario and make it so only knights and rooks can log into that arena until the numbers are equal (lets say within 5%) it's worth a try.
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Obviously HiTech has never tried to organize squad ops. Arena caps make this almost impossible. The population of the arenas has nothing to do with my arguement. Because of "Floating" arena caps the most populated arena will switch over the period of an hour.
Orange is the most populated arena almost all of the time. In fact I've never seen blue with more people than orange.
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SHawk: wrote
Obviously HiTech has never tried to organize squad ops. Arena caps make this almost impossible. The population of the arenas has nothing to do with my arguement. Because of "Floating" arena caps the most populated arena will switch over the period of an hour.
Interesting, I just ran a data base queary of the last month Blue has NEVER had more than orange, so I once again call BS on your line of thought. There has not been 1 time when you squad could not have gotten into blue except on TT, when obviously they could be together.
HiTech
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A very simple way to do it, which is why I use it when we do the occasional SAPP night. 38 drivers like myself are a bit slow :)
Meet at the time designated, in the low numbers LW arena on the low numbers side.
Works every time.
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SHawk: wrote
Interesting, I just ran a data base queary of the last month Blue has NEVER had more than orange, so I once again call BS on your line of thought. There has not been 1 time when you squad could not have gotten into blue except on TT, when obviously they could be together.
HiTech
I definitely see this playing out soon...
Squad CO "Hey guys, there's 20 guys on each side in blue!"
Everyone else "What are we waiting for, lets go?!?"
:uhoh
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I do not buy the argument that everyone thinks that flying with squad mates is the most important thing to people, I do believe that people like to use this as an excuse to complain about not being able to get in the most populated arena. In reality they want to fly in the most populated arena with their squad, but each person in the squad is saying that it is more important to them to fly in the higher populated arena, hence why they are in the most populated arena.
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand all it would take for a squad to agree to always fly together is that they all agree to fly in the 2nd arena on the list.
HiTech
I must have missed the class where they taught the customer is always wrong. How dare anyone want to choose which arena they want to fly in for whatever reason they want. I didnt realize a person had to have a valid justification for the way they think.
Maybe all companies should operate this way........ sorry sir I realize you already paid your money and you want a blue pickup truck, but we have decided to only sell red station wagons today...... you are required to take the wagon or you can ride your bicycle home.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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How dare anyone want to choose which arena they want to fly in for whatever reason they want.
The players choose an arena where they know their squaddies can't follow, and it's the game owners' fault?
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The players choose an arena where they know their squaddies can't follow, and it's the game owners' fault?
:rofl :aok
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The players choose an arena where they know their squaddies can't follow, and it's the game owners' fault?
Apparently youre missing the point.......... there should be no reason their squaddies cant follow......... I guess you think its the guy who wants the blue trucks fault for wanting a blue truck?
Theres no legitimate reason
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I must have missed the class where they taught the customer is always wrong.
This is an MMO, that rule doesn't work.
Apparently youre missing the point.......... there should be no reason their squaddies cant follow......... I guess you think its the guy who wants the blue trucks fault for wanting a blue truck?
Theres no legitimate reason
It's to balance the arenas.
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You gents do realise that AH2 isn’t the only game with server waiting times?
I would rather have an uncapped arena, but what we currently have is better then 16v16.
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Apparently youre missing the point.......... there should be no reason their squaddies cant follow......... I guess you think its the guy who wants the blue trucks fault for wanting a blue truck?
Theres no legitimate reason
That's a bad analogy. I want a blue truck, I buy it. If it has only two seats and a no-return clause in the sale contract, and I intend to keep my promise to 6 friends that we'll depend on this truck to go on a road trip, then it certainly isn't the dealership's fault when 5 friends are left out to dry.
If you want your squaddies to fly with you, you go into the arena where they can get in. The alternative is no arena caps, which leads to all but a minuscule number of players in one of the two arenas. Which is back to the same bad gameplay dynamic that we had a couple of years ago. The only way to keep the arenas well distributed in players isn't to depend on them to evenly distribute themselves (as history shows and as you admit yourself) but to enforce it with caps.
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maybe if all the people who use bad gameplay as the reasoning would never enter the orange arena then problem solved...... seems to me the majority think the gameplay dynamic is just fine .... otherwise they wouldnt want to go to the more populated arena
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maybe if all the people who use bad gameplay as the reasoning would never enter the orange arena then problem solved
This sentence's grammar prevents me from understanding what your argument is.
...... seems to me the majority think the gameplay dynamic is just fine .... otherwise they wouldnt want to go to the more populated arena
In fact, the subscription numbers were hurting back when the single arena formula was up.
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I must have missed the class where they taught the customer is always wrong. How dare anyone want to choose which arena they want to fly in for whatever reason they want. I didnt realize a person had to have a valid justification for the way they think.
Maybe all companies should operate this way........ sorry sir I realize you already paid your money and you want a blue pickup truck, but we have decided to only sell red station wagons today...... you are required to take the wagon or you can ride your bicycle home.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
You also must have missed the class where it teaches "the customer is always right".
I can see the Parker Brothers BBs now: You guys hafta do something about this game, I can never get past Go and always wind up in Jail. This game must be rigged.
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I like the fact that HiTech comes out here and straightens people out. Customers are almost always wrong, even if business etiquete says otherwise.
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From quite a few posts, I can see why we have the arena split in the first place.
ack-ack
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Apparently youre missing the point.......... there should be no reason their squaddies cant follow......... I guess you think its the guy who wants the blue trucks fault for wanting a blue truck?
Theres no legitimate reason
To use your analogy, HTC is providing you a place to buy your car much like Ebay. What is available on any given day is not in the contract, only that he will provide you access to buy your car. Your the one limiting yourself, not HTC.
DMBear, yes I hold to my quote even if the number suck in blue. I may try the DA, or MW, and lately have been thinking of giving AvA another chance. But, if I do stay in the "under populated" arena, I practice my high alt bombing, or GV gunnery... I rally suck at GV gunnery :cry The biggest plus of flying in the lower populated arena is that it also means there are less people using that "poor game play" stuff I always complain about. :D
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All squad sh*% aside.
How can you have arena CAP with out Team Balance?
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Only one question left to think about....
Other than the powers that be want two arena's for their own reasons. If an arena can hold 600-650 people why would you want to dilute the arena when the customers want to be in the one arena? Isn't that what the customers are crying out for? Perhaps, the servers cannot handle a 650 person arena and a 300 persona arena?
It raises one last thought...if both arena's could hold 650 people each would they be split down the middle evenly with combatants? If not, why not?
Thinking out loud and trying to understand the unknown.
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The biggest plus of flying in the lower populated arena is that it also means there are less people using that "poor game play" stuff I always complain about. :D
That's funny. Last week while waiting for Orange to open up, I recall a 3 on 1 in blue arena in my 109E. I worked a spit down almost to the water from around 10k. A typhy joined in to save his buddy and I began on him as well. Then comes a Pony to complete the trifecta. You claimed that you had to kill me because I had turned into you, but I don't see how that would have been possible without you flying toward an obvious 2 on 1. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your pick. It was fair and square, but it also seems to be a perfect example of what you would define as "poor game play".
If your gonna preach it, try practicing it.
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That's funny. Last week while waiting for Orange to open up, I recall a 3 on 1 in blue arena in my 109E. I worked a spit down almost to the water from around 10k. A typhy joined in to save his buddy and I began on him as well. Then comes a Pony to complete the trifecta. You claimed that you had to kill me because I had turned into you, but I don't see how that would have been possible without you flying toward an obvious 2 on 1. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your pick. It was fair and square, but it also seems to be a perfect example of what you would define as "poor game play".
If your gonna preach it, try practicing it.
Same thing happened to me in Orange last night. :cry
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only thing different is the map and the numbers. I tend to like blue better in the evening til it gets under 100 then we move top orange. of course we try to start in orange, but it really doesn't matter
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Only one question left to think about....
Other than the powers that be want two arena's for their own reasons. If an arena can hold 600-650 people why would you want to dilute the arena when the customers want to be in the one arena? Isn't that what the customers are crying out for? Perhaps, the servers cannot handle a 650 person arena and a 300 persona arena?
It raises one last thought...if both arena's could hold 650 people each would they be split down the middle evenly with combatants? If not, why not?
Thinking out loud and trying to understand the unknown.
As has been said many times and many ways, with out changing any software we can hold 1000 people in an arena. But until we split the arena, we had put an artificial cap on our growth. People do not have as much fun after a certain number of people enter an arena. We had reached that number and could no longer grow because of it.
Once we split arena, our numbers again began to grow.
Now the thing you do not consider, you want caps at 650 , what happens to the other 100 to 600 people who want to be in the arena that is populated first?
Notice the same problem exists again but just at a different number.
And finally Ren, do you really think we implement something like this to piss customers off? Why would we do something that would be bad for business. But the real facts are had we not split arenas, it is possible Aces High would not exist.
The real trick in game programing is giving customers what they want, not what they ask for.
HiTech
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I like the fact that HiTech comes out here and straightens people out. Customers are almost always wrong, even if business etiquete says otherwise.
SO you keep playing why? You have the choice not to you know. Jeez what a bunch of whiners.
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SHawk: wrote
Interesting, I just ran a data base queary of the last month Blue has NEVER had more than orange, so I once again call BS on your line of thought. There has not been 1 time when you squad could not have gotten into blue except on TT, when obviously they could be together.
HiTech
Ok, If this is the case I should instruct squaddies to always log into Blue for squad ops. My Mistake for thinking floating caps jumped back and forth from arena to arena.
Now what about the rest of my post??
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Guppy - He might have been saying that customers usually don't know the reality that owners are privy to.
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SO you keep playing why? You have the choice not to you know. Jeez what a bunch of whiners.
I don't think he was being sarcastic. His post makes sense, at least.
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That's funny. Last week while waiting for Orange to open up, I recall a 3 on 1 in blue arena in my 109E. I worked a spit down almost to the water from around 10k. A typhy joined in to save his buddy and I began on him as well. Then comes a Pony to complete the trifecta. You claimed that you had to kill me because I had turned into you, but I don't see how that would have been possible without you flying toward an obvious 2 on 1. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your pick. It was fair and square, but it also seems to be a perfect example of what you would define as "poor game play".
If your gonna preach it, try practicing it.
If your going to come in here and sling crap around you should be able to back it up. The fun thing is you can sort the score page into "who killed who" and in what. In the past 6 weeks I have killed you twice, once you where in a Ki, and the other time you where in a 38. I have the 38 film if you'd like to see it, it was a huge furball, better know as a pickfest. I couldn't find the ki film, but I tend to clear out my film folder each month.
I don't know why you have to try and spread this crap. I think your an idiot, and you think I'm an idiot. Can't we just leave it at that? We are here talking about the arena caps, NOT someones flying. Stay on topic or don't comment.
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My Mistake for thinking floating caps jumped back and forth from arena to arena.
They do, but Blue doesn't have to get full for Orange cap to be raised. The threshold is at 70%. Blue is almost never full to the limiit, that happens maybe once a tour at most, when a map like midmesa is up in Orange ;)
Both arenas are the same, but that's also part of the problem. As long as there is no other real difference, the biggest single reason for players to choose one over the other is: numbers.
Now the golden solution would be to find something, some kind of setup that would offer similar gameplay/planesets but still appealing to different players.. of having a kind of differing "taste", so thta some squads would make Orange their home, and some Blue.
Unfortunately I don't have any clue how that could be done in a balanced way that would really work. See EW and MW...
For now my only idea is: Orange only large maps, and Blue only small ones.
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They do, but Blue doesn't have to get full for Orange cap to be raised. The threshold is at 70%. Blue is almost never full to the limiit, that happens maybe once a tour at most, when a map like midmesa is up in Orange ;)
OK, thanks for that. Thought I was trippin. Coulda sworn I'd been capped outta Blue before. :O
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If your going to come in here and sling crap around you should be able to back it up. The fun thing is you can sort the score page into "who killed who" and in what. In the past 6 weeks I have killed you twice, once you where in a Ki, and the other time you where in a 38. I have the 38 film if you'd like to see it, it was a huge furball, better know as a pickfest. I couldn't find the ki film, but I tend to clear out my film folder each month.
I don't know why you have to try and spread this crap. I think your an idiot, and you think I'm an idiot. Can't we just leave it at that? We are here talking about the arena caps, NOT someones flying. Stay on topic or don't comment.
Yup, i was in a KI-61 instead of the 109E. :rolleyes: So does that make the rest of what I said wrong? You can call me an idiot because I thought I was in a 109 instead of a KI, but the fight happened exactly as I said it did. So I'll just have to call you a hypocrite for doing the very same thing you get on here and rail on about.
All of this pertains to your arguments on Arena caps. I was detailing a time in a less populated Blue arena where I saw you involved in the very same "bad game play" that you say caps help eliminate. How often have you said that you think people want caps to go away just because they want to fly in hords or in their perk rides? I was only responding to the many times I've heard this coming from you and thought it fit perfectly into the discussion.
Sorry that I got the darn plane wrong.
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As has been said many times and many ways, with out changing any software we can hold 1000 people in an arena. But until we split the arena, we had put an artificial cap on our growth. People do not have as much fun after a certain number of people enter an arena. We had reached that number and could no longer grow because of it.
Once we split arena, our numbers again began to grow.
Now the thing you do not consider, you want caps at 650 , what happens to the other 100 to 600 people who want to be in the arena that is populated first?
And finally Ren, do you really think we implement something like this to piss customers off? Why would we do something that would be bad for business. But the real facts are had we not split arenas, it is possible Aces High would not exist.
The real trick in game programing is giving customers what they want, not what they ask for.
HiTech
Actually, 650 was a number for discussion and the numbers I've seen in the TT arena, nothing more. As part of the discussion it would also be reasonable to think that the 600-650 number is workable or you would not have opened it up. I was raising the question if one arena is closed (Blue) and one arena is open for TT (Orange) and we only see 600-650 people in there, at this point in time it might be somewhat safe to say we average 600-650 people in the LW MA's on any given night with a majority showing up on TT. That raised the discussion of one TT type arena with say 650 and another smaller arena with say 200 or so.
Personally, I've always liked big arena's. But, when I look back over the years and see where it all started and the numbers there, I find it hard to believe you've actually been able to take the game this far. I remember when 13 icons (was it) was the total number of icons in a furball that you could actually see. Kudos to you and your programmers!
My only participation in this discussion was to get factual information which provides everyone with current limits on the game. That is not to say that, after coming this far, you won't be able to take it further. But this kind of info in a sticky might go a long way towards many, many people asking the same questions over and over.
As far as my thinking your are implementing anything just to infuriate and frustrate customers is a misnomer. I think nothing of the kind. And, you are one of the only Company's in business where you actually listen to it's players and continually add to the game.
In fact, I think the root cause of the limits is the customers computers ability to keep up with all the eye candy. I remember back when I got an apple computer that actually let me get to FR17. All of a sudden the planes started actually flying around in the sky somewhat smoothly. Fool and I used to have lunch and our topic of discussion was always, "if you want to stay up with all the enhancements in the flight sim, dogfighting games you need to upgrade your computer from time to time". Back then 17FR wasn't top of the line. In fact, for the past 12-14 years or so I made a commitment to stay one step below top of the line. Every couple of years or so I'd have some bucks put away and when I went out West I'd pick up everything I'd need and build a new computer. One step below top dog was normally about a $150-250 upgrade. I'd always try and move my old computer out to someone else in the game who could use an upgrade from their existing computer. If I'm wrong about customer computers being up to speed for huge arena's then I stand corrected.
So, the concern by customers is they cannot get in and play with their buds. That in itself can cause frustration. Understanding reasons why there are limits imposed helps to clear up lack of understanding and people are happy to make adjustments that might be required to keep the game up and running at it's max level. At least I hope they would.
IMO you have made a great game that has been enjoyed by a lot of people for a long, long time. I hope you continue to prosper in your endeavors and the game is around for a long time to come.
Ren
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It's nothing to do with any particular color, or squad, or chess piece- it's simply because there are two groups, and one is larger, and people are being excluded from it. It's very basic psychology. Most players only want to go where the most players are.
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It's nothing to do with any particular color, or squad, or chess piece- it's simply because there are two groups, and one is larger, and people are being excluded from it. It's very basic psychology. Most players only want to go where the most players are.
......because they find more fun there. Be it squaddies, more options and types of fights, or just the fact they dont want to be stuck in an arena with 100 or less people. This actually is inevitable every midday to both orange and blue because we have to cap the 150 in orange untill the arenas are equally at a boring 100.
What really is frustrating is that you can look on the clipboard and see how many people are actually flying. There are always plenty of people not at all active while people that actually would up a plane are playing the mouse game trying to get the #'s up in blue to kill the cap on orange. I'm guessing that many that are not flying are only logged in so they wouldnt be locked out later.
The real trick in game programing is giving customers what they want, not what they ask for.
HiTech
So you are telling me that what I really want is to go to an arena with 40 people when the other only has 150.
I'm sorry. That's not what I want.
Why not at least raise the caps during midday, kick out non active players after 20 minutes. Then, as the population rises during late afternoon into evening cap. Even though I don't like them personally, I can understand some of the reasoning for the caps. It just seems to dilute the action middays.
-AH customer
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I must be doing something wrong.
I have NEVER had to wait to get into an arena for more than 5 minutes or so, EVER.
What could I be doing wrong?
Or is it just people aren't willing to wait that long before freaking out?
I tried to get in last nite (squad nite).
The numbers were along the lines of 300/332.
In less than 5 minutes I was in.
Happens every time.
I must be special, because I have NEVER NOT been able to get into an arena in a reasonable amount of time.
Just lucky I guess. :aok
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I must be doing something wrong.
I have NEVER had to wait to get into an arena for more than 5 minutes or so, EVER.
What could I be doing wrong?
Or is it just people aren't willing to wait that long before freaking out?
I tried to get in last nite (squad nite).
The numbers were along the lines of 300/332.
In less than 5 minutes I was in.
Happens every time.
I must be special, because I have NEVER NOT been able to get into an arena in a reasonable amount of time.
Just lucky I guess. :aok
It took you 5 mins to log into an arena with free spots. :rofl
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It took you 5 mins to log into an arena with free spots. :rofl
Yeah thats it.
What a dope I am huh?
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I must be special.
Yep, why do you think there's the slogan...I R the Short Bus....
He did it for you! :LOL
On the other hand, I can usually get into the "full" arena within 5 minutes. I'm just not special. :)
A side note: if there are only 150 players up flying during the day why should there be a 100 person cap?
We are not talking big numbers. Is there something folks are missing? Does it matter that 150 people are flying in 1 arena and none in the other during the day?
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On the other hand, I can usually get into the "full" arena within 5 minutes. I'm just not special. :)
Yup, I get into the "Full" arena in less than 5 minutes also.
Are the interpretive skills really that low in here?
And I AM special, my mom told me so!!
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:) LOL :aok
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Understanding reasons why there are limits imposed helps to clear up lack of understanding and people are happy to make adjustments that might be required to keep the game up and running at it's max level.
I'm always reassured to see people who maintain faith in the goodness of humanity, despite all proof to the contrary. <S> Ren, I don't know how you do it.
- oldman
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The players choose an arena where they know their squaddies can't follow, and it's the game owners' fault?
Your missing the point. They could have picked the arena at a point when the cap was still OK, and had since been capped.
They are floating caps, which is exactly what the problem is.
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Actually, 650 was a number for discussion and the numbers I've seen in the TT arena, nothing more. As part of the discussion it would also be reasonable to think that the 600-650 number is workable or you would not have opened it up. I was raising the question if one arena is closed (Blue) and one arena is open for TT (Orange) and we only see 600-650 people in there, at this point in time it might be somewhat safe to say we average 600-650 people in the LW MA's on any given night with a majority showing up on TT. That raised the discussion of one TT type arena with say 650 and another smaller arena with say 200 or so.
Personally, I've always liked big arena's. But, when I look back over the years and see where it all started and the numbers there, I find it hard to believe you've actually been able to take the game this far. I remember when 13 icons (was it) was the total number of icons in a furball that you could actually see. Kudos to you and your programmers!
My only participation in this discussion was to get factual information which provides everyone with current limits on the game. That is not to say that, after coming this far, you won't be able to take it further. But this kind of info in a sticky might go a long way towards many, many people asking the same questions over and over.
As far as my thinking your are implementing anything just to infuriate and frustrate customers is a misnomer. I think nothing of the kind. And, you are one of the only Company's in business where you actually listen to it's players and continually add to the game.
In fact, I think the root cause of the limits is the customers computers ability to keep up with all the eye candy. I remember back when I got an apple computer that actually let me get to FR17. All of a sudden the planes started actually flying around in the sky somewhat smoothly. Fool and I used to have lunch and our topic of discussion was always, "if you want to stay up with all the enhancements in the flight sim, dogfighting games you need to upgrade your computer from time to time". Back then 17FR wasn't top of the line. In fact, for the past 12-14 years or so I made a commitment to stay one step below top of the line. Every couple of years or so I'd have some bucks put away and when I went out West I'd pick up everything I'd need and build a new computer. One step below top dog was normally about a $150-250 upgrade. I'd always try and move my old computer out to someone else in the game who could use an upgrade from their existing computer. If I'm wrong about customer computers being up to speed for huge arena's then I stand corrected.
So, the concern by customers is they cannot get in and play with their buds. That in itself can cause frustration. Understanding reasons why there are limits imposed helps to clear up lack of understanding and people are happy to make adjustments that might be required to keep the game up and running at it's max level. At least I hope they would.
IMO you have made a great game that has been enjoyed by a lot of people for a long, long time. I hope you continue to prosper in your endeavors and the game is around for a long time to come.
Ren
[/quote]might be somewhat safe to say we average 600-650 people in the LW MA's on any given night with a majority showing up on TT. [/quote]
It is not in anyway safe, in fact it is completely incorrect, TT is the lowest numbered night of the week.
[/quote]In fact, I think the root cause of the limits is the customers computers ability to keep up with all the eye candy.[/quote]
Once again you are not trying to state facts you are making stuff up that I have said point blank many times many ways there is not any technical issue limiting the players until 1000, and this could be change if there was any benifit. Are you really tying to accuse me of not telling the truth? The limits are not set in any way do to technical limitations, and this includes users computers.
My only participation in this discussion was to get factual information which provides everyone with current limits on the game. That is not to say that, after coming this far, you won't be able to take it further. But this kind of info in a sticky might go a long way towards many, many people asking the same questions over and over.
I once again call BS, if this was really your purpose, you would have simply searched for things Pyro and I have said in the past and had all the facts and reasons you need.
"if you want to stay up with all the enhancements in the flight sim, dogfighting games you need to upgrade your computer
I am not overstating the fact that this line of thinking came very very close to putting HTC out of business.
So now if you wish to again have an answer to the question, you must first state which questions.
There are 2 questions.
1. Why have arena limits.
2. Why have limits float the way they do.
1. Why have arena limits.
Simply put there is an optimal number of people in an arena that works best for the most people to have fun in many aspects. This number is more than 1 and less than 500.
As sine quick reasons why there is a top end cap, here are just a few.
1. Communication on country/voice and 200. With more people it can almost become unreadable.
2. The more people the less noticed each person is, and hence they are more anonymous.
3. More people create more of a herding / fly where they are not mentality. This is because each person feels they have less of an impact on the game, hence they need to be part of a bigger flying group to have any impact.
2. Why have limits float the way they do.
In an ideal world we would not , we would simply cap each arena at 300 - 450. This is how we first started the arena caps. But again no one wanted to be the first in the 2nd arena, people would still be complaining that they could not get into their desired arena. The floating arena caps simply let the system cross critical mass in the arean in the quickest amount of time. Before anyone sugest raising this number, that actually makes the problem worse, because there are less people to establish critical mass in the 2nd arena.
Other methods we have considered. 1 Assigning each person to an arena, and they could not change. 2 Assigning squads to an arena.
makeing more arenas of about 200 cap.
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They do, but Blue doesn't have to get full for Orange cap to be raised. The threshold is at 70%. Blue is almost never full to the limiit, that happens maybe once a tour at most, when a map like midmesa is up in Orange ;)
Both arenas are the same, but that's also part of the problem. As long as there is no other real difference, the biggest single reason for players to choose one over the other is: numbers.
Now the golden solution would be to find something, some kind of setup that would offer similar gameplay/planesets but still appealing to different players.. of having a kind of differing "taste", so thta some squads would make Orange their home, and some Blue.
Unfortunately I don't have any clue how that could be done in a balanced way that would really work. See EW and MW...
For now my only idea is: Orange only large maps, and Blue only small ones.
And that goes with my idea of giving players a good atlernative, rather than an empty sucky map with nothing to do.
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Floating Caps...... BIGGEST PROBLEM IN GAME... Well shucks, I guess the game itself is just fine with all these great people having nothing better to moan about!!! :salute Yet on tTuesday, the only complaint is too many people, too many dropped packets, frame loss & warping.
So basically you complainers want it both ways? Fix the Cap's but keep "them" out so we don't have playing problems......... Riiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds like a SPEIR way of thinking.
They are floating caps, which is exactly what the problem is.
Rolling Thunder, a normally BLUE LW squad, just wants to say Thank You HTC!!! We think the Caps are just fine the way they are!!!
<S>
saantana sir, you do realize the same maps are in both? "Sucky" map in Blue today is tomorrow's Orange "sucky" map. And very few are really "that bad."
And that goes with my idea of giving players a good atlernative, rather than an empty sucky map with nothing to do.
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Just an idea. How about both arenas run the same maps, both run a day time cap of 350. The caps start to really go in effect and float after those numbers. This way theres no running to one over the other due to map, the only tie is the scores, and the caps let people into the arenas all day until they start to hit 350. At 350 they start to do what they do now. This will keep one arena from having 180 in it and the other from having 40 in it. Above all else let's at least try some of these ideas that are on the boards. It's at least better than arguing here and still getting nowhere. It's the same circle over and over. 1 Tour try something different with the numbers to even out the caps over a day.
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Floating Caps...... BIGGEST PROBLEM IN GAME... Well shucks, I guess the game itself is just fine with all these great people having nothing better to moan about!!! :salute Yet on tTuesday, the only complaint is too many people, too many dropped packets, frame loss & warping.
So basically you complainers want it both ways? Fix the Cap's but keep "them" out so we don't have playing problems......... Riiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds like a SPEIR way of thinking.
Rolling Thunder, a normally BLUE LW squad, just wants to say Thank You HTC!!! We think the Caps are just fine the way they are!!!
<S>
saantana sir, you do realize the same maps are in both? "Sucky" map in Blue today is tomorrow's Orange "sucky" map. And very few are really "that bad."
This analogy doesn't really make sense. So we should keep what works for you, but doesn't work for me?
The solution should be something that works for both of us. That has yet to be found, and this discussion is precisely the purpose it is meant to serve.
I'd be stumped if a solution that doesn't limit consumer choice doesn't exist, further undermining my faith in the current financial system.
Edit: Sorry for all the edits, after re-reading I my language could come off as aggressive which is not what I want to portray.
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Your missing the point. They could have picked the arena at a point when the cap was still OK, and had since been capped.
They are floating caps, which is exactly what the problem is.
Answer to this is in HT's post.
1- Apparently Blue has never been unaccessible.
2- It's the least worst known alternative. What better alternative or what new paradigm do you suggest?
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might be somewhat safe to say we average 600-650 people in the LW MA's on any given night with a majority showing up on TT. [/quote]
It is not in anyway safe, in fact it is completely incorrect, TT is the lowest numbered night of the week.
Unfortunately, the last few months of our fiscal year has had me working lots of swings and mids.
I stand corrected in that the last few times the numbers were in the 400-450 range, although please confirm there was a night
a while back that had 600 or so.
My only participation in this discussion was to get factual information which provides everyone with current limits on the game. That is not to say that, after coming this far, you won't be able to take it further. But this kind of info in a sticky might go a long way towards many, many people asking the same questions over and over.
I once again call BS, if this was really your purpose, you would have simply searched for things Pyro and I have said in the past and had all the facts and reasons you need.
I did. Multiple times.. A search for hitech and/or pyro arena caps brought up his thread. Both you and Pyro have 40 pages in the search category. You have me there I did not take the time to go back through all 80 pages since I wasn't going to spend the time looking at every unrelated topic
Ren
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<S> Sir....... I'm just thinking that currently, we can't have it both ways. And sadly, there isn't much middle ground to meet in. So between the two choices, I prefer better connection, less lag. HOWEVER... Since we do fly alot of times in BLUE, it's easy for me to get on this soapbox, as I usually never have an issue, but on the times that it's Orange I need...... It does take some time to get in.
Edit: Sorry for all the edits, after re-reading I my language could come off as aggressive which is not what I want to portray.
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Answer to this is in HT's post.
1- Apparently Blue has never been unaccessible.
2- It's the least worst known alternative. What better alternative or what new paradigm do you suggest?
<S> Moot
I don't have an alternative. However it is my opinion that an alternative should exist, just none of us have found one that is satisfactory to all.
The current one clearly isn't.
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<S> Sir....... I'm just thinking that currently, we can't have it both ways. And sadly, there isn't much middle ground to meet in. So between the two choices, I prefer better connection, less lag. HOWEVER... Since we do fly alot of times in BLUE, it's easy for me to get on this soapbox, as I usually never have an issue, but on the times that it's Orange I need...... It does take some time to get in.
<S> LLogan
I understand your point, and appreciate the time you took to look at mine.
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<S> Moot
I don't have an alternative. However it is my opinion that an alternative should exist, just none of us have found one that is satisfactory to all.
The current one clearly isn't.
That's the second time someone doesn't take offense at arguing that cuts right to the chase... What's going on here?? :lol
Maybe the multiple 200 player arenas could be tried..
<S> :)
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saantana: I do not agree that a satisfactory to all is available. It has always been known that you can not please all the people all the time. When some morons insist that they will not be happy until they have only 1 arena there is no way to please them. Because 1 arena is not going to happen.
Now I do agree that it may be possible to find a better way of splitting arenas. But the option of only 1 arena is non negotiable.
HiTech
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saantana: I do not agree that a satisfactory to all is available. It has always been known that you can not please all the people all the time. When some morons insist that they will not be happy until they have only 1 arena there is no way to please them. Because 1 arena is not going to happen.
Now I do agree that it may be possible to find a better way of splitting arenas. But the option of only 1 arena is non negotiable.
HiTech
Hello HiTech,
The 1 arena option is another solution of limiting options, which in my opinion is not a good idea either.
Maybe we can open a new topic; Finding a solution to constructively encourage even arena distribution with a less constricting arena caps. :furious
Thank you guys for the civilized discussion :aok
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saantana: Also be aware that many people will try disguise there desire for 1 arena with a suggestion that has the net effect of 1 arena.
HiTech
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Would you dweebs quit wasting HT's time. My 410 isn't going to coad itself.
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I too hardly ever have a problem getting into Orange. I know there is a ratio for Orange to Blue, so I just wait. Its kind of like the line at a fast food restaurant.
McDonald's: 15 cars in the drive through
Wendy's: 10 cars in the drive through
I really want McDonolds...what do I do...I wait my turn. :lol
Yes there is a small time where I have getting into Orange, and that usually around 1pm EST. So if I know I want to play in Orange at 1:50pm EST, I log on at 12:45pm and press the little window button.
I do recall many time as where there were 6 or 7 BoPs in one capped arena, and 4 or 5 in the uncapped arena, and they switched.
For the most part, I like to fly in the arena that has the least bish, I like not having to fight my own chess piece for a bad guy.
IMHO, I think this is a great game, with a lot of great people. Excellent customer support, I mean Skuzzy missed his domino playing to rebuild servers the other day. All I can say is bring on more planes, hide strat targets in big cities, and update some of the mid and early plane. Keep up the good work HTC, it's appreciated by many.[/b]
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Hello HiTech,
The 1 arena option is another solution of limiting options, which in my opinion is not a good idea either.
Maybe we can open a new topic; Finding a solution to constructively encourage even arena distribution with a less constricting arena caps. :furious
Thank you guys for the civilized discussion :aok
I have proposed this before ...
Once an arena hits the cap, allow people to log into the capped arena but they can only log into the 2 lowest countries.
So, when Orange gets "capped" ... what country has the highest number of players ?
Example when "capped" :
Rooks have 150
Bishops have 100 (50 people can log in and choose this country)
Knights have 85 (65 people can log in and choose this country)
Allow people to log into the arena only as a Bish or a Knight until that countries population reaches 150. If during this "capped" time frame, the Blue arena population grows to critical mass causing the Orange "Cap" number to change ... then anyone can log into any country. Conversley, during this "capped" time frame, if Blue does not reach critical mass to change the Orange MAX CAP, then Orange will be locked out with a maximum of 450 people,
This would allow some disgruntled people/squaddies to log in and have a happy face :D only if they can stand the fact that they have to log in as a Bishop or a Knight ... if your a "died in the wool" Rook or your squaddies are flying as Rooks ... you are SOL until the Blue arena population reaches critical mass causing the Orange cap to be increased.
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Personally being the evil nasty frog I am I would not have implemented the arena split like that.
I would have kept one single arena for low number time splitting into 2 arena and distributing player as equally as possible when a certain number is reached (like 500).
Don't say it will prevent a reset as it rarely happen since the split.
Another way would be to send the player to one or the other arena without giving him the possibility to choice and making a system of invitation to jump to the other arena (example if 5 friends vote for you go change arena).
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Doesn't work like that with present technology..... Seamlessly sending players to the other arena..... Or does it? I think I've seen both "Host Connection Lost" as well as auto tTuesday from Orange....... :uhoh
On the other hand.... Still Totally SPEIR but, I do like that idea. If you have (more then 5... maybe even 20) your squad in the other arena, they can vote you in if you're on a low # country. But at 20, it'll take a country to vote you in, not squad. Which would be more along the lines of HTC theory. Your squad says yes, but what if you're feminine sweetheart and everybody can't stand your selfish, crappy, behavior....... Takes a country to vote you in!!! Just thinking out loud here... I think this thread is silly and unwarranted quite honestly...... But if the best way to end the discussion is to find a happy medium, this might be a place to start........... :salute
..... splitting into 2 arena and distributing player as equally as possible when a certain number is reached (like 500).
Another way would be to send the player to one or the other arena without giving him the possibility to choice and making a system of invitation to jump to the other arena (example if 5 friends vote for you go change arena).
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saantana: I do not agree that a satisfactory to all is available. It has always been known that you can not please all the people all the time. When some morons insist that they will not be happy until they have only 1 arena there is no way to please them. Because 1 arena is not going to happen.
Now I do agree that it may be possible to find a better way of splitting arenas. But the option of only 1 arena is non negotiable.
HiTech
Hitech, would setting the two late war arenas as blue Euro, and Orange as a Pac with the plane choices limited to them as a test be a good idea?
Having each arena dedicated to a front will split the population along lines that the players can choose for themselves. Hopefully it would split some what evenly, but still leave the choice to jump from one arena to the other.
Your thoughts?
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All it would do is eliminate 1/2 the planes and still have people complain that they could not get in.
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would setting the two late war arenas as blue Euro, and Orange as a Pac with the plane choices limited to them as a test be a good idea?
That would mean you would have almost all the British and American planes on both arenas, but German and Japanese in only one each. (Soviet planes is a special case depending on whether you include Manchurian campaign or not).
So players flying Western Allied planes can go everywhere, the ones preferring German or Japanese planes can not... And if those can't get into the arena where they can fly "their" planes, the complains may be getting worse then what we have now
(BTW, what about tanks in such a setup?)
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Hitech, would setting the two late war arenas as blue Euro, and Orange as a Pac with the plane choices limited to them as a test be a good idea?
Having each arena dedicated to a front will split the population along lines that the players can choose for themselves. Hopefully it would split some what evenly, but still leave the choice to jump from one arena to the other.
Your thoughts?
Yikes! You remember AW? The PAC arena was virtually deserted.
- oldman
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How about..
1-Planes cost less in the lower numbers arena?
2-More perks earned per kill in lower number arena?
3-Smaller maps and closer bases, so lower caps arena will give me the advantage of spending less time travelling to a furball.
4-Automatic login que, so I don't have to keep checking back every couple of minutes to see if theres a spot? A system which will allow me to log on to an arena in a civilized fashion.
Apologies if some of these are already in, I read somewhere (I think in LLogans post(?)) that the automatic queing is already in? Some window icon?
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In the end, this is about folks thinking about what is best for themselves or their buddies, and HTC having to think what's best for everyone.
I want to fly with my 65 buddies in my Wing, even though they don't exist, for the country I want in the arena I want, when I want to. I don't care if it means unbalancing, or that the other people in the arena might be impacted because it's only my fun that matters.
It's simple enough. Take your squad, set your squad time, go to the LW arena that is least populated. Check the roster then go to the country that is low numbers.
hmmm, You can then fly with your buddies, and might improve the fight for everyone!
What a strange, and unreasonable concept that might be.
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See rule 4
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See rule 4
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Hello HiTech,
I don't think there is much of a problem here and people are making mountains out of mole holes, but I thought I'd offer a possible solution to the whining (and possibly better system) while potentially still upholding your strategy to maintain two populated arenas during peak times.
How about a Queue system or a wait time to get into the more populated arena during the peak hours? This could vary anywhere from 2 minutes wait to 10 minutes wait based on the population and how many people are waiting to get in. The pilots that Reallllly need to get into a certain arena to fly with their squad could plug themselves into the queue and wait while the pilots who simply just want to get up and fly somewhere would just go to the less populated arena and skip the waiting. As the population goes down as the night wears on, the queueing times would drop as well.
The downside to this idea would be that potentially a high percentage of players logging on wouldn't mind waiting and all go into the Queue, this of course would drive up the wait time and people would be waiting and not flying. Even so though, I think a lot of them would cancel out of it and go to Blue. The pilots that are really committed to getting into Orange (Which are probably the same pilots whining on forums) would wait as long as it took and get in. Another downside would be figuring out how to make this work for the transition periods, where it's time for one arena to start getting more populated quickly. And another downside would be having to program it of course and how complicated it would be to do.
Another idea that would help unclog things during peak times: How about booting players that have been AFK for more than 30 minutes or an hour? Not sure on the time frame but I think that they should lose their spot if they aren't playing and I don't see any good reason why they should be able to sit in the tower all night long. I've seen a player sit AFK in the Tower for 3 days straight before. :lol I don't know about the other players but I'd have a hard time whining about being booted if I was in the other room watching a movie while my game was still logged in. A small problem to fix that only has positive returns.
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See rule 4
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LOL. That was a nicely thrown tantrum. Your way or the highway I see.
Since I'm the 'fanboy' and clearly don't see things clearly through my rose colored glasses, can you answer my one question? Why are you still giving your money to HTC and playing the game being as miserable as you are?
I do envy you however in that you can get this worked up about a computer game. I just can't seem to get there. I can have fun in the time I get to fly my cartoon 38G too. How dare I?
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See rule 4.
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awe Bear makin more friends on the internet, don't worry assi...I'll be back in a couple days. you still a knit? if so I'll go rook :aok
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LOL lagger, you cookie stealer!
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Oooooh Ooooooh HT!!
I have an Idea on how to make your game better!!!
Oh wait, no I don't.
Nevermind.
Carry on. :salute
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Oooooh Ooooooh HT!!
I have an Idea on how to make your game better!!!
Oh wait, no I don't.
Nevermind.
Carry on. :salute
Thanks for the morning laugh.
:salute
HiTech
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Anything for the cause!
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Got to watch Boner, he stands firm for the cause!
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Got to watch Boner, he stands firm for the cause!
Now that is funny! :rofl
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Glad someone caught that! :D
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Yikes! You remember AW? The PAC arena was virtually deserted.
- oldman
and the guys that were in there were flying around at 30k due to bases being rather far apart.
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saantana: I do not agree that a satisfactory to all is available. It has always been known that you can not please all the people all the time. When some morons insist that they will not be happy until they have only 1 arena there is no way to please them. Because 1 arena is not going to happen.
Now I do agree that it may be possible to find a better way of splitting arenas. But the option of only 1 arena is non negotiable.
HiTech
Hey Dale, see rule #4.
I would prefer one arena or smaller maps if there were two arenas. I may be a moron, but I am not unhappy currently. I still enjoy the game.
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Until S.A.P.P. gives its blessings to change the arena setups, nothing is going to change. After all, we are the architects of the arena splits, arena caps and ENY as part of our grand nefarious plan of world domination by preventing squadrons from flying together.
ack-ack
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:t Evil SAPPER's :t
Until S.A.P.P. gives its blessings to change the arena setups, nothing is going to change. After all, we are the architects of the arena splits, arena caps and ENY as part of our grand nefarious plan of world domination by preventing squadrons from flying together.
ack-ack
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It's been a great discussion!
A thought:
Anyone from Chicago (ORD)? Cuns or White Sox fan?
Some stats:
Cubs stadium seats approx 47k
Sox stadium seats approx 40k (down from 47k when it was built)
Average attendence:
Cubs 39.5k 96.1%
Sox 25.6 63.0%
I wonder if the season ticket holders for the Cubs are told to go over to watch the Sox because they are full?
I wonder how many would actually go?
Club owners build to meet the needs of the fans. If they cannot build because of location (lack of property limitation given the city) then that's it.
Who does the fans prefer? Cubs. Is there a reason? Does there need to be? The fact is they do.
Also ran? Sox.
Look at AH2.
The reasons for capping have been stated.
Arena can hold up to 1000 without changing software but won't happen. ok, owners perogative.
Optimal # of players in for most people to have fun, somewhere between 1-500? Ok, WHy?
Coms on 200/country unreadable? Persoanlly I never had that problem. Thought the software could handle up to 1000?
Not sure about why the less noticed and anonymity. Everytime someone lands X # of kills they get noticed.
Herding/hording? That goes on every day. Also means more targets available.
Without quoting...it's been noted the Blue arena has NEVER had more peope than in the Orange arena. Those are facts...Overflow? Fall out? The real question is....DOES HERE HAVE TO BE A REASON they go to Orange?
Again without quoting...it's been noted people try to disquise their desire for 1 arena. It would appear that anyone who has read this topic from start to finish knows, without a doubt, who has a desire for 1 arena or not.
If you look at the posts here, there are many older players that ar expressing their concerns.
Look back at the Club owners. They are providing a fan with a place to go. They do not decide for the fan that they need to go to the Sox game. They build/rebuild to allow the fans to come to the game and watch the Cubs. Somehow this sounds like they are giving the fans what they want AND asked or...a place to go watch their team play.
Oldman...pac arena? depends on which game you're talking aout....Mac AW, Dos AW, PC versions, AOHL Mac or PC AW?
In fact, if one looked back at those days the destruction of early AW appears to have been a result of some folks asking for smaller arenas, not larger ones. I think EA bought AW to get rid of a competitor. If you look at AH the big difference was HTC could handle more traffic. As such, many people migrated to the game. In fact, approx 72 players (prev and current) from our squad signed up en masse and got back up flying. We were just one squad. Many folks came to play. Many are still here. Many even contribute daily in all aspects of the game.
The game continues, even during a time when people are out of work.
It's already been said by the powers that be...there will not be one arena. I don't think anyone ever asked for that. Just don't limit one arena and when you think about it, arbitrarily toss people into another arena.
If the software can do what it needs to do then why not? I guess it's just something personal that no one will ever understand. Hopefully, all will survive.
Ren
a player
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It's been a great discussion!
A thought:
Anyone from Chicago (ORD)? Cuns or White Sox fan?
Some stats:
Cubs stadium seats approx 47k
Sox stadium seats approx 40k (down from 47k when it was built)
Average attendence:
Cubs 39.5k 96.1%
Sox 25.6 63.0%
I wonder if the season ticket holders for the Cubs are told to go over to watch the Sox because they are full?
I wonder how many would actually go?
Club owners build to meet the needs of the fans. If they cannot build because of location (lack of property limitation given the city) then that's it.
Who does the fans prefer? Cubs. Is there a reason? Does there need to be? The fact is they do.
Also ran? Sox.
Look at AH2.
The reasons for capping have been stated.
Arena can hold up to 1000 without changing software but won't happen. ok, owners perogative.
Optimal # of players in for most people to have fun, somewhere between 1-500? Ok, WHy?
Coms on 200/country unreadable? Persoanlly I never had that problem. Thought the software could handle up to 1000?
Not sure about why the less noticed and anonymity. Everytime someone lands X # of kills they get noticed.
Herding/hording? That goes on every day. Also means more targets available.
Without quoting...it's been noted the Blue arena has NEVER had more peope than in the Orange arena. Those are facts...Overflow? Fall out?
Again without quoting...it's been noted people try to disquise their desire for 1 arena. It would appear that anyone who has read this topic from start to finish knows, without a doubt, who has a desire for 1 arena or not.
If you look at the posts here, there are many older players that ar expressing their concerns.
Look back at the Club owners. They are providing a fan with a place to go. They do not decide for the fan that they need to go to the Sox game. They build/rebuild to allow the fans to come to the game and watch the Cubs. Somehow this sounds like they are giving the fans what they want AND asked or...a place to go watch their team play.
Oldman...pac arena? depends on which game you're talking aout....Mac AW, Dos AW, PC versions, AOHL Mac or PC AW?
In fact, if one looked back at those days the destruction of early AW appears to have been a result of some folks asking for smaller arenas, not larger ones. I think EA bought AW to get rid of a competitor. If you look at AH the big difference was HTC could handle more traffic. As such, many people migrated to the game. In fact, approx 72 players (prev and current) from our squad signed up en masse and got back up flying. wE WERE JUST ONE S
Wow one of the longest post I have seen to simply say "I WANT ONE ARENA". And I must say one of the longest stretches of an analogy I have ever seen.
HiTech
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Wait a mintue...I left something out!!!
Ren
a player
a moron
there we go, I'm with you Steve
:aok
p.s. It's still a good discussion :)
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I approve of this thread.....I don't like the floating caps...but this thread is aight! :rock
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Hitech,
You responded b4 I was able to finish my post. Something to d with my sisters beater laptop. Try a reread....
Ren
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but this thread is aiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhhhhhhhttttt tt. :rock
fixed
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How is saying have two arenas and no (max 200) caps on arenas that can handle 1000 is equal to the desire of having one arena.
There seems to be a logical step in thinking that goes beyond my comprehension.
I think there was a policy error that resulted in a lot of coding into the arena caps system and now that it's failing from some users perspective in the task of enhancing their gaming experience there is a reluctance to fix what is broken.
More thought and analysis of user behavior, the reasons behind their choice of arenas should be conducted after which a more viable solution to this problem would surface.
I'm so smart, I sometimes have trouble understanding where my super fast and logical thinking abilities came from. :rolleyes: ;)
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How is saying have two arenas and no (max 200) caps on arenas that can handle 1000 is equal to the desire of having one arena.
There seems to be a logical step in thinking that goes beyond my comprehension.
I think there was a policy error that resulted in a lot of coding into the arena caps system and now that it's failing from some users perspective in the task of enhancing their gaming experience there is a reluctance to fix what is broken.
More thought and analysis of user behavior, the reasons behind their choice of arenas should be conducted after which a more viable solution to this problem would surface.
I'm so smart, I sometimes have trouble understanding where my super fast and logical thinking abilities came from. :rolleyes: ;)
Santaana.
1. Why have arena limits.
Simply put there is an optimal number of people in an arena that works best for the most people to have fun in many aspects. This number is more than 1 and less than 500.
As sine quick reasons why there is a top end cap, here are just a few.
1. Communication on country/voice and 200. With more people it can almost become unreadable.
2. The more people the less noticed each person is, and hence they are more anonymous.
3. More people create more of a herding / fly where they are not mentality. This is because each person feels they have less of an impact on the game, hence they need to be part of a bigger flying group to have any impact.
More thought and analysis of user behavior, the reasons behind their choice of arenas should be conducted after which a more viable solution to this problem would surface.
No need for more analysis, it is called heard behavior, and is just the nature of the human animal.
How is saying have two arenas and no (max 200) caps on arenas that can handle 1000 is equal to the desire of having one arena.
Simple fact everyone would go to the one arena.
From me.
saantana: Also be aware that many people will try disguise there desire for 1 arena with a suggestion that has the net effect of 1 arena.
HiTech
HiTech
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^^^^^^The man has spoken^^^^^^
LTARecon
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saantana,
The 1000 was what Hitech mentioned as his server/program is capable(?) of handling without software modification. I did not say one arena with 1000 cap. I did say if there were to be 2 arena's then allow one to run without cap and the other with a smaller cap. Right now we have TT but no secondary arena on that day.
Why do I get the feeling the total number of folks that could get up in all the different arenas could perhaps reach the max limit of 1000 and thus this discussion has no merit other than letting folks post something for enjoyable reading?
My analogy of the baseball club providing for its fan brings no value to the discussion. While the clubs may be limited to their location, we don't have that limitation. Instead we endure other limitations. It's prolly cause we're morons with a heard mentality.
I mean we all herd it so lets just move along and get up flying!
I'd sae id c u on 200 but ill prolly be off in da ta.
Ren
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Do you guys know that a lot of the most talked about topics in general are about the arena caps.
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Do you guys know that a lot of the most talked about topics in general are about the arena caps.
Don't have access to those stats so difficult to comment on it.
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Understood. Still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth thought.
Waaaa :cry
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Here is something I've seen often and cannot figure out. Probably a simple explanation but still...
A few minutes ago I was looking to play and saw that LW Orange had 310/300 cap and LW Blue had 243/350 cap. So I went into the TA to warm up for a minute or two. I left the TA and saw that LW Orange had 315/300 and LW Blue was at 242/350. How does that happen? Where did those additional five players come from if the arena was capped? Do AFK players not count against the capacity of an arena?
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Here is something I've seen often and cannot figure out. Probably a simple explanation but still...
A few minutes ago I was looking to play and saw that LW Orange had 310/300 cap and LW Blue had 243/350 cap. So I went into the TA to warm up for a minute or two. I left the TA and saw that LW Orange had 315/300 and LW Blue was at 242/350. How does that happen? Where did those additional five players come from if the arena was capped? Do AFK players not count against the capacity of an arena?
The Caps go up when each side goes past 245 players. So lets say:
LWO has 315/400
LWB has 246/450
5 minutes later
2 people leave from blue
LWO has 315/300
LWO has 244/350
Simple
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Simple fact everyone would go to the one arena.
HiTech
Why would they do that? Is it possible they would do that because.......wait for it...
they want 1 arena? :O
Steve
The happy moron
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Why would they do that? Is it possible they would do that because.......wait for it...
they want 1 arena? :O
Steve
The happy moron
I think his point is that folks go to the mob the more there are in the arena. Not many folks in AH can make the decision on their own to look for a fight from a disadvantage. If they could, and would even things on their own and not horde, it wouldn't be an issue HTC has to address. Look at Titanic Tuesday. How often do you go in there and see three seperate hordes avoiding each other. All the time.
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Why would they do that? Is it possible they would do that because.......wait for it...
they want 1 arena? :O
Steve
The happy moron
Maybe it's because if you have 1 arena with say.. 550 pilots and another with 75 pilots and you log in, you are going to go to the arena with more action. Kind of like the capitalistic analogy.. 'The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer'
It won't take the 75 players soon to realize that their fights suck and leave for the other arena as well. Optimum population levels IMO are around 200-300 players.
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Look at Titanic Tuesday. How often do you go in there and see three seperate hordes avoiding each other. All the time.
I'm not sure I agree with this but I'll admit I don't look at the maps with that in mind. I do know that the fight between A1 and... 249? as well as that higher base to the East.. A10? always seem to have a fight going on.
I love Titanic Tuesday because I know when I log on that I will be able to find darbars full of enemy cons. I don't care if I'm the only green dot in the area.
OTOH I'm not stomping my feet in demand for a single arena. I enjoy the game and want others to enjoy it as well, but some of HT's comments seem to lead me to believe that many people would prefer one arena. If 2 arenas are here to stay, I'd like to see the smaller maps in both arenas.
Hey, I'm just giving my thoughts on the matter; just one moron, tossing his 2 cents.
all for me!:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/alltomyself.png)
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I'm not sure I agree with this but I'll admit I don't look at the maps with that in mind. I do know that the fight between A1 and... 249? as well as that higher base to the East.. A10? always seem to have a fight going on.
I love Titanic Tuesday because I know when I log on that I will be able to find darbars full of enemy cons. I don't care if I'm the only green dot in the area.
OTOH I'm not stomping my feet in demand for a single arena. I enjoy the game and want others to enjoy it as well, but some of HT's comments seem to lead me to believe that many people would prefer one arena. If 2 arenas are here to stay, I'd like to see the smaller maps in both arenas.
Hey, I'm just giving my thoughts on the matter; just one moron, tossing his 2 cents.
all for me!:
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/alltomyself.png)
I do believe you prefer the fight to the horde however :)
I know like my 80th crew, the Muppets bounce to whichever side needs the help or where the fight can be found. I know there are others who do this as well, but they are in the minority. If there were more folks willing to move to balance the arena and combat the horde mentality, I would imagine the need to limit arena size would be less. But since most folks won't do this, HTC is put in the position of having to so that the welfare of all players is taken into account.
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I do believe you prefer the fight to the horde however :)
I know like my 80th crew, the Muppets bounce to whichever side needs the help or where the fight can be found. I know there are others who do this as well, but they are in the minority. If there were more folks willing to move to balance the arena and combat the horde mentality, I would imagine the need to limit arena size would be less. But since most folks won't do this, HTC is put in the position of having to so that the welfare of all players is taken into account.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
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HTC is put in the position of having to so that the welfare of all players is taken into account.
And more importantly ... HTC's bottom line.
HiTech said it himself and for some reason, people choose to ignore it. Had he continued down the path of 1 arena, he was looking at the strong possibility of going out of business.
But the real facts are had we not split arenas, it is possible Aces High would not exist.
HiTech didn't make this decision to piss people off ... he did it to survive and grow. Think about it ... why would he give a rats arse if their was 1 arena ... as long as he was making his numbers ? He didn't like the numbers and made a change which improved his numbers.
It was a business decision, plain and simple, so no amount of foot stomping or whining is going to make him change his mind about this. People need to sit back and look at it from the dollars and cents perspective.
The only thing that he will take into consideration, for change, is the logic on how he balances the arenas.
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Why were the numbers going down when there was one arena? I think that's a point that is missing in this discussion.
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Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Steve, you and a few other don't see a problem because you guys are in the top end of the feeding pool. Just using BS numbers to point out what I mean...
10% of the players are the top guns or just plain love to "fight", these are the guys that CAN dive into a 10 vs 1 because they are skilled enough to be able to come out on top, OR just really don't care about score/rank so they fight. This is the group, like you :D that has a hard time understanding what the big deal is.
20% are the average players. They still play a bit for score, are not really confident they can handle that 10 vs 1 so they will move on, or not even up in that area. They more often or not look for small groups to fight in... needing some protection, but not really wanting to share the kills :D
70% of the players are the newbies. These include many players that have been here for years, ( was going to call this group "the skill less", but that would be rude :D ) but have not advanced in their skill level due to being stuck in the horde and are happy at "being good enough". These are the people that MUST hide in behind numbers because they don't have the skills or confidence to venture out on their own. These are the people that need the numbers, and flock to the most populated arena, and the biggest horde in that arena.
In a perfect world...
Squads would be limited to 32 people :O
Missions limited to 15 people
Each squad would be responsible for their own area of the map, whether attacking or defending. (no joining other squads)
There would be fights along the whole front, NOT just in one sector. Can you imagine the options!! Battles everywhere, furballs, landgrabbing, GVs battling it out, it would be like heaven ! :x
Ahhhh nice dream, but it would never happen. It would take the "community" to decide to change game play like that, and far to many people in that 70% need the numbers to play. I'd love to see HTC try the "Euro/Pac" arena set up. I flew Pac most of the time in AW and the numbers were good. I'd venture over to Euro now and then just for something different, and it was fun.
Why were the numbers going down when there was one arena? I think that's a point that is missing in this discussion.
I think it was posted by either Pyro or HT that they ask "why" people are unsubscribing when they cancel their accounts and that info is what made them look at splitting the arenas. Picture a new guy signing up. The game is tough enough to get going as it is, add in 10 guys diving in on him each time he tries to up.
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Steve, you and a few other don't see a problem because you guys are in the top end of the feeding pool. Just using BS numbers to point out what I mean...
10% of the players are the top guns or just plain love to "fight", these are the guys that CAN dive into a 10 vs 1 because they are skilled enough to be able to come out on top, OR just really don't care about score/rank so they fight. This is the group, like you :D that has a hard time understanding what the big deal is.
20% are the average players. They still play a bit for score, are not really confident they can handle that 10 vs 1 so they will move on, or not even up in that area. They more often or not look for small groups to fight in... needing some protection, but not really wanting to share the kills :D
70% of the players are the newbies. These include many players that have been here for years, ( was going to call this group "the skill less", but that would be rude :D ) but have not advanced in their skill level due to being stuck in the horde and are happy at "being good enough". These are the people that MUST hide in behind numbers because they don't have the skills or confidence to venture out on their own. These are the people that need the numbers, and flock to the most populated arena, and the biggest horde in that arena.
In a perfect world...
Squads would be limited to 32 people :O
Missions limited to 15 people
Each squad would be responsible for their own area of the map, whether attacking or defending. (no joining other squads)
There would be fights along the whole front, NOT just in one sector. Can you imagine the options!! Battles everywhere, furballs, landgrabbing, GVs battling it out, it would be like heaven ! :x
Ahhhh nice dream, but it would never happen. It would take the "community" to decide to change game play like that, and far to many people in that 70% need the numbers to play. I'd love to see HTC try the "Euro/Pac" arena set up. I flew Pac most of the time in AW and the numbers were good. I'd venture over to Euro now and then just for something different, and it was fun.
I think it was posted by either Pyro or HT that they ask "why" people are unsubscribing when they cancel their accounts and that info is what made them look at splitting the arenas. Picture a new guy signing up. The game is tough enough to get going as it is, add in 10 guys diving in on him each time he tries to up.
That's a good point. However I must agree with Steve on one thing - I remember some of the best moments in Aces High were when I just upped from a base along with my squad and discovered 20-30 red icons of 110's and n1k's appearing out of nowhere, the rush of the feeling 'Chits hitting the fan now!!' is really great. That happens mostly on the bigger number arenas.
I remember that happening in Friday Ops as well, in the few times that I had the opportunity to participate.
But please put smaller maps on Blue arena. WAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :cry
Edit: doesn't the argument of unsubscribing break after we introduce the fact of newbies usually join Bishops and participate in The Jokers missions right away? :O
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HiTech didn't make this decision to piss people off ... he did it to survive and grow. Think about it ... why would he give a rats arse if their was 1 arena ... as long as he was making his numbers ? He didn't like the numbers and made a change which improved his numbers.
Quoted for truth.
Way back in the day of the original arena split, HTC made this point completely clear. Member growth had fossilized, and the game experience was so negative for new players that retention of trial memberships (and other proprietary metrics) that changes HAD to come. As HT said back then, the system was "sick"
And before anyone says anything about the evils of money grubbing businessmen, remember the REASON retention was poor -- the population as a whole voted with their dollars to say that the GAME EXPERIENCE was suffering. That environment affects the long term vets just as much as the new players, just in different ways.
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Why were the numbers going down when there was one arena? I think that's a point that is missing in this discussion.
Only HiTech could really answer that, but what difference would it make even if he did answer it. If I remember correctly from the initial thread concerning the arena split was Pyro saying that the 1 arena turned into a "slum" and it was driving customers away.
Never the less, I don't think that it would even be a point of discussion ... HiTech has been in this business for quite some time and would know better than any of us when it comes to making these types of decisions.
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Steve, you and a few other don't see a problem because you guys are in the top end of the feeding pool. Just using BS numbers to point out what I mean...
10% of the players are the top guns or just plain love to "fight", these are the guys that CAN dive into a 10 vs 1 because they are skilled enough to be able to come out on top, OR just really don't care about score/rank so they fight. This is the group, like you :D that has a hard time understanding what the big deal is.
20% are the average players. They still play a bit for score, are not really confident they can handle that 10 vs 1 so they will move on, or not even up in that area. They more often or not look for small groups to fight in... needing some protection, but not really wanting to share the kills :D
70% of the players are the newbies. These include many players that have been here for years, ( was going to call this group "the skill less", but that would be rude :D ) but have not advanced in their skill level due to being stuck in the horde and are happy at "being good enough". These are the people that MUST hide in behind numbers because they don't have the skills or confidence to venture out on their own. These are the people that need the numbers, and flock to the most populated arena, and the biggest horde in that arena.
OK, this makes sense.
HiTech didn't make this decision to piss people off ... he did it to survive and grow
Well this may not be directed at me but.. I'm not pissed off. Seriously. Sometimes later in the evening when I log on fights are harder to come by and the alts seem really really high. I get disappointed but it's a long way from pissed off. Also, I don't pretend to represent "everybody" or "the majority". I personally don't care for the 2 arenas. If it was indeed a business decision and it has been good for HTC, bully for them! I don't feel so strongly about it that I'm going to take my pony and go home.
It would be nice if there weren't such big maps so that, when numbers are a bit smaller, what planes are in the arena aren't scattered beyond finding a fight easily. Again, just my 2 cents. As I said, with the exception I mentioned, I have fun in the game. I want/hope for others to have fun as well.
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Ok. So that was a business decision which is understandable.
Still, I have to agree with Steve that a smaller map for Blue would be nice. I'm going to start whining about that now.
WAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa I want smaller maps in Blue WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :cry
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Kinda makes you wonder when TV's Shows "jump the shark" what happened to their marketing dept?
Something change?
I agree with Steve, I prefer one arena. I can find fights in the arena. All I have to do is look for the horde.
If they go away I wonder what will happen. If there are 2 arenas then it's statis quote. Life goes on.
It's really good to know HiTech knows what we really want and not what we think we want (I'm so confused. Living all these years and I just haven't a clue). :)
Clueless Moron #2
Well anyway, let's hear it for the morons!!!
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Single arena slums sucked.
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What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map and 15 people on each country. Meanwhile. the arena you can't get in has a large % of people just sitting in the tower afk so that when they do want to play they won't be locked out.
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Well this may not be directed at me but.. I'm not pissed off. Seriously. Sometimes later in the evening when I log on fights are harder to come by and the alts seem really really high. I get disappointed but it's a long way from pissed off. Also, I don't pretend to represent "everybody" or "the majority". I personally don't care for the 2 arenas. If it was indeed a business decision and it has been good for HTC, bully for them! I don't feel so strongly about it that I'm going to take my pony and go home.
It wasn't directed at you ... I know your not happy ... but some are "pissed off".
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Ok. So that was a business decision which is understandable.
Still, I have to agree with Steve that a smaller map for Blue would be nice. I'm going to start whining about that now.
WAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa I want smaller maps in Blue WAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :cry
NEW small maps would be nice. The old/stale AH1 maps are ... well ... old and stale ... and EVERY map should have water that will support CVs. Personally, if I log into an arena and it doesn't have water ... I log out.
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By DammedRen
It's really good to know HiTech knows what we really want and not what we think we want (I'm so confused. Living all these years and I just haven't a clue). Smiley
Clueless Moron #2
I a glad you now understand your true roll in life. :D
To rephrase, many times a customer will phrase what there desire is by means of an implantation. As an example.
A customer wishes to fly with his squad, but phrases it as in I want one arena.
Or a customer will say, I want things to be realistic as possible, and there for I want cowl flaps. In reality the as saying I want to feel as if I am really in a WWII plane.
The issue is the customer does not very often knows the real out come of implementing what he says he wants. He automatically thinks that what he is asking for will give him what he desires, and it normally does not.
HiTech
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What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map and 15 people on each country. Meanwhile. the arena you can't get in has a large % of people just sitting in the tower afk so that when they do want to play they won't be locked out.
I call BS.
The arenas are exactly the same in every way with the exception of there name, and position in the menu. About 4 months ago we even exchanged the name (orange, and blue) and also position on menu, but guess what, people still went into the top 1.
If your supposition had any truth to it, the blue would some time be the fullest simply because of the map. And you would be happy we had 2 arenas because you would have your choice of maps.
HiTech
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I call BS.
About 4 months ago we even exchanged the name (orange, and blue) and also position on menu, but guess what, people still went into the top 1.
HiTech
Change it back, B comes before O. Everyone know that!
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What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map and 15 people on each country. Meanwhile. the arena you can't get in has a large % of people just sitting in the tower afk so that when they do want to play they won't be locked out.
Nope. I'd rather kick some bellybutton in the emptier arena and only get into the other one after 15min or so of on and off attempts to get in, than being forced into the retarded cram-packed single arena because there's no alternative.
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NEW small maps would be nice. The old/stale AH1 maps are ... well ... old and stale ... and EVERY map should have water that will support CVs. Personally, if I log into an arena and it doesn't have water ... I log out.
Has there ever been a map editor/creator available for download?
Similar in concept to the skins editor. Users tinker with it. Submit to Hitech Creations for approval. The best (and workable) maps are used in the game.
My personal preference is a map where the bases are close together for quick returns to the fight or quick base grabs (for those of us that get shot down more often.)
Pardon the shameless kiss up, but HTC is doing a good job pleasing as many of us as possible. There are always going to be a few cranks, especially among the highly opinionated posters on this forum.
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Rufus:
Dedicated Terrain Editor Forum (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/board,61.0.html)
Various Content Editors (http://www2.hitechcreations.com/download/dlteframe.html), including the terrain editor.
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Has there ever been a map editor/creator available for download?
Similar in concept to the skins editor. Users tinker with it. Submit to Hitech Creations for approval. The best (and workable) maps are used in the game.
My personal preference is a map where the bases are close together for quick returns to the fight or quick base grabs (for those of us that get shot down more often.)
Pardon the shameless kiss up, but HTC is doing a good job pleasing as many of us as possible. There are always going to be a few cranks, especially among the highly opinionated posters on this forum.
Of the 11 MA maps, 4 were made by HTC.
All of the SEA maps are player made as well.
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I call BS.
The arenas are exactly the same in every way with the exception of there name, and position in the menu. About 4 months ago we even exchanged the name (orange, and blue) and also position on menu, but guess what, people still went into the top 1.
If your supposition had any truth to it, the blue would some time be the fullest simply because of the map. And you would be happy we had 2 arenas because you would have your choice of maps.
HiTech
I call BS. The arenas have very different #'s.
You can tell the difference between an arena with 40 people and one w/ 160, right?
Thats what makes the arena crappy.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/Denied-1.jpg)
This OP's argument isnt over 1 arena, its about caps. When you have 1 of the two LW arena's capped, all you really have done is make it a 1 arena game again.
BTW I do like the two arenas, I just wish I could pick to go to the higher populated one. Many on the boards have said they prefer the lower populated ones anyways. Here's one right off this page.
Nope. I'd rather kick some bellybutton in the emptier arena and only get into the other one after 15min or so of on and off attempts to get in, than being forced into the retarded cram-packed single arena because there's no alternative.
If anything, all of the people in the less populated arena would thank HTC for taking off caps so all of us morons can go play the game wrong together in the highly populated area while the Aces arena would not have to be diluted with people bringing their lame squad loving tactics that I've heard so much about.
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DMBear...yer over stepping here. Hitech understands numbers...he just can't spell.
Clueless Moron # 2
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Assi, go get back in your 109E and fly :)
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Isn't that screen shot taken not long after an arena reset?
(looks that way to me by the #'s)
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Yes it was.
ack-ack
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If anything, all of the people in the less populated arena would thank HTC for taking off caps so all of us morons can go play the game wrong together in the highly populated area while the Aces arena would not have to be diluted with people bringing their lame squad loving tactics that I've heard so much about.
You're wrong, use misleading evidence, and... Who is it that's been making these flight sims for over 10 years now? You?
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You're wrong, use misleading evidence, and... Who is it that's been making these flight sims for over 10 years now? You?
How am I wrong?
What evidence is misleading?
If I had to make a flight sim to get into this forum, I guess I wouldn't be here. :rolleyes:
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It's not about morons or playing the game wrong, it's about the simple fact that the game SUCKED back when everyone was piled into a single arena. Were you there back then? If you were one of the few that did have fun, it still doesn't make for a realistic business decision. "Your" (just for the sake of the argument here) vision of fun was a vision that led to no game, which obviously equates to the least fun outcome of any alternative.
Misleading evidence - This one's elementary. Your evidence that HT is wrong when he quotes (dunno how much more primary an evidence you could ask for) population history direct from the server files, is a single data point from all the population history data points, and of all things it's a data point as exceptional and therefore unrepresentative as e.g. quoting this wednesday's numbers as a sign that something's wrong with the servers in general. Your supporting evidence is a screenshot from right after an arena reset.
The maker vs joe lambda - Read what you want into it.. My point is that you can't keep much credibility when you argue the above against someone who isn't just a player but whose job it is to make the game.. Who has 10+ years of experience at it.. Etc.
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It's not about morons or playing the game wrong, it's about the simple fact that the game SUCKED back when everyone was piled into a single arena. Were you there back then? If you were one of the few that did have fun, it still doesn't make for a realistic business decision. "Your" (just for the sake of the argument here) vision of fun was a vision that led to no game, which obviously equates to the least fun outcome of any alternative.
Misleading evidence - This one's elementary. Your evidence that HT is wrong when he quotes (dunno how much more primary an evidence you could ask for) population history direct from the server files, is a single data point from all the population history data points, and of all things it's a data point as exceptional and therefore unrepresentative as e.g. quoting this wednesday's numbers as a sign that something's wrong with the servers in general. Your supporting evidence is a screenshot from right after an arena reset.
The maker vs joe lambda - Read what you want into it.. My point is that you can't keep much credibility when you argue the above against someone who isn't just a player but whose job it is to make the game.. Who has 10+ years of experience at it.. Etc.
You are wrong about this m00t. I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
First of all I want two LW arenas. I just don't want them to be capped. Plain and simple.
HT's reply implied that I thought the two arenas were in some way different and thats why I called one "crappy".
I replied that I was referrring to it as crappy because it had only 40 players in it.
Also, Chappy's screenshot at the beggining of this post may have been made after an arena reset, but mine wasn't. It was made in the middle of the day. Log on at 11:30 to 12:30 and this is common. The arena that is actually at a decent # gets reduced when the cap hits untill you have 2 arenas w/ 100 players.
It happens every day.
And thats why people do this...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/ahss113.jpg)
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Yea I call it the 3 click triangle sequence of quit login etc.
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First of all I want two LW arenas. I just don't want them to be capped. Plain and simple.
2 arenas + no cap = 1 arena = slum all over again ... plain and simple.
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There MUST be a cap. The owner and designer of the game has said it is so and will not change back due to it being a business decision. Now we ALL MUST agree with this because it has been said that that is how it's going to be, period.
As for HOW the caps work, is where the suggestions can come into play. Yes, midday is a bit of a problem, tho it may settle down some as the school kids start logging in earlier. (not sure if you think THAT is a good thing :D ) The problem comes in when the caps are turned on, and the Euro folk start signing off for the night. It takes an hour or two for the arena numbers to settle back down.
The easiest solution is to make it so that you can't do the "3 click triangle sequence" to quote RumbleB. If people would just log into the lower numbered arena the numbers would settle down much quicker. However, due to the fascination :rolleyes: most people have with the orange arena this is never going to happen.
What other way would you think to handle the population in 2 arenas?
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It's not about morons or playing the game wrong, it's about the simple fact that the game SUCKED back when everyone was piled into a single arena. Were you there back then? If you were one of the few that did have fun, it still doesn't make for a realistic business decision. "Your" (just for the sake of the argument here) vision of fun was a vision that led to no game, which obviously equates to the least fun outcome of any alternative.
I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.
Misleading evidence - This one's elementary. Your evidence that HT is wrong when he quotes (dunno how much more primary an evidence you could ask for) population history direct from the server files, is a single data point from all the population history data points, and of all things it's a data point as exceptional and therefore unrepresentative as e.g. quoting this wednesday's numbers as a sign that something's wrong with the servers in general. Your supporting evidence is a screenshot from right after an arena reset.
I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron. Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
The maker vs joe lambda - Read what you want into it.. My point is that you can't keep much credibility when you argue the above against someone who isn't just a player but whose job it is to make the game.. Who has 10+ years of experience at it.. Etc.
Probably a lot closer to 15+ years since he goes all the way back to DOS AW days. No one has ever said HiTech hasn't made a great game. I don't know how much he's played lately nor do I care. It's his game. Kinda makes ya wonder if he has to wait to log into the Big O? :) Naw.
Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D
CM#2
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=852_1244852835
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There MUST be a cap. The owner and designer of the game has said it is so and will not change back due to it being a business decision. Now we ALL MUST agree with this because it has been said that that is how it's going to be, period.
:rofl "We ALL MUST agree."
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/dadism_because_i_said_so_mug-p16826.jpg)
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You are wrong about this m00t. I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
I'm heading to bed so I'll answer just this one. Why is it that the more concise and transparently and fairly you argue things, the more it's taken as ruffled feathers? It's like the only way to get straight arguments out of people is to sandbag them.
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I'm heading to bed so I'll answer just this one. Why is it that the more concise and transparently and fairly you argue things, the more it's taken as ruffled feathers? It's like the only way to get straight arguments out of people is to sandbag them.
Concise and transparent? Maybe its your tailfeathers that have been most disheveled by your beak.
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Assi - If you're going to BS, be upfront with it. Just say what's on your mind. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind.
I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.
FUDGE. Drop the act. Whether you're "offended" that HT poked fun at some ridiculous aspect of your argument is irrelevent to whether it's true or false. The fact is that subscriptions dropped and gameplay quality fell with the rising numbers (past 500 or so) in a single arena. That you had fun means nothing... I have fun doing stuff that pretty much all other players find masochistic.. I fly into furballs with one of the very worst turning planes and try to stall fight my way out of it.. Zero margin of error. You and I might "know" what the essence of real dogfighting is, but we're certainly no guarantee of what the rest, the bulk of the players want. Like I said, no subscriptions to support AH, no AH. Business is business. I'm certainly not going to use my single pov of what's fun for me as representative of what all players should want.
I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron.
More fudge. Put down the freakin violins for a minute. Your "side" of the argument got called a moron.. Maybe it's because there's so many morons on "your side", not because you're necessarily a moron yourself? HT makes his point by poking fun at your argument and you use that as an argument.. You know better than this.
And I'm not brown noser BTW.. There's plenty of things I absolutely loathe about the game.
Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
You're too inflexible.. The fact is that gameplay suffered from too many players crammed into a single arena. Titanic Tuesday is only as "good" as it is because it happens only once a week, instead of everyday. Even if we took your argument and went with it - that an unrestricted single arena was more fun for you - subscription numbers would still mean that AH was on the way to bankruptcy. Is that what you're arguing for?
Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D
Brown nosers and morons, what a perfectly accurate depiction of reality.
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You are wrong about this m00t. I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
You haven't ruffled jack toejam. If you can't compute that, I can't help ya.
First of all I want two LW arenas. I just don't want them to be capped. Plain and simple.
One arena would fill. Back to square one - a single slum arena. You can't rely on players to not make a slum out of it anymore than you can rely on them to stay out of tactically and strategically inconsequential 1:1s, nor to not horde undefended bases instead of diverting their misshun horde to separate bases on the frontlines, nor to learn ACM instead of being yank&bank stick-stirring dweebs, nor to have proper sportsmanship and not dive bomb & bail formations, etc etc etc. You don't want the arenas to be capped because your squaddies are too irresponsible to join the lower number arena so that you could join them too.
HT's reply implied that I thought the two arenas were in some way different and thats why I called one "crappy".
I replied that I was referrring to it as crappy because it had only 40 players in it.
And the fault in HT's reply is?
Also, Chappy's screenshot at the beggining of this post may have been made after an arena reset, but mine wasn't. It was made in the middle of the day. Log on at 11:30 to 12:30 and this is common. The arena that is actually at a decent # gets reduced when the cap hits untill you have 2 arenas w/ 100 players.
It happens every day.
And thats why people do this...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/ahss113.jpg)
Wanna know what I think? Players should be let in like (IIRC) Grizz suggested. Let them into the arena only if they're willing to join as the outnumbered country. Make them pay the 1 hour restriction if joining means they have to switch country from their last login's country. Anything else is just furthering the same crapola that was going on back in the single arena days.
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I'm heading to bed
You didnt get enough sleep. :D
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She came back for seconds and after that I (somehow) decided to get very hosed to keep me up thru the night and day so I don't jack up my schedule. I'm a obsessive compulse workaholic and life long insomniac. Without a strict schedule and exercise everything goes out of whack.
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I hear ya on that m00t. :rock
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The arena cap is a handicap at times when there are too few players to justify the cap.
If the arena cap would work in this way:
Fill one arena untill it reaches the magic 400 player limit.
Once limit is reached, split the arena to two equal 200 player maps.
Squad members and members within the same channel v discussion will be kept on the same server during the split. No squad is big enough to have over 50 players at given time on one country.
End result: numbers split but players notice no difference in gameplay as long as the map is the same and the split happens equally in rook/bish/knit. Only friends that you fly with matter, enemy can change.
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The arena cap is a handicap at times when there are too few players to justify the cap.
If the arena cap would work in this way:
Fill one arena untill it reaches the magic 400 player limit.
Once limit is reached, split the arena to two equal 200 player maps.
Squad members and members within the same channel v discussion will be kept on the same server during the split. No squad is big enough to have over 50 players at given time on one country.
End result: numbers split but players notice no difference in gameplay as long as the map is the same and the split happens equally in rook/bish/knit. Only friends that you fly with matter, enemy can change.
Its a great idea, but how would you/the game decide WHICH 200 get moved out to the other arena? There would be people in mid flight, squads in ops, individuals in missions together, people in that perfect spawn camping position finally! :D Can you imagine the crys if you got dumped out of what you were doing to populate the 2nd arena.
I was here back then and the game was absolutely fun. You could get in immediately and fly as log as you want. There was always a fairly even group of folks up fighting each other. I guess its just wrong to have fun cause we're just morons. Well, not you and DMBEAR. Just Steve and I.
I don't think there is enough evidence presented. Period. There is only what is presented to the population to mull over + what we've experienced as players within the game. But, WaDoIno? Any issue which appears to uncap one of two arena's appears to create a defacto 1 arena environment. Since I seem to think that's bad it means I'm a clueless moron. Yet the Big "O" appears to fill up and the overflow goes to Lil "Blu". And if there is a one defacto arena because EVERYONE wants to fly there. But, wait a minute, there is a second arena for those who just want to fly with a max of 100 people! Aren't those the folks here in this discusson who want two arena's. I'd like to see just how many of those folks actually log in and fly Lil Blu every night iso Big O. Most of the names here I;ve seen in the Big O. Wait!!! They should be able to fly where they want, right? Even if they prefer Lil Blu, right? Hmmm, one sided?
Nobody is asking to take away their precious Lil Blu. I'm so confused and clueless. I just dont understand.
Probably a lot closer to 15+ years since he goes all the way back to DOS AW days. No one has ever said HiTech hasn't made a great game. I don't know how much he's played lately nor do I care. It's his game. Kinda makes ya wonder if he has to wait to log into the Big O? :) Naw.
Even the brown nosers acknowledge there is a problem...go figure. :D
CM#2
There is a bunch of evidence, you either don't want to look at it, or you don't want to accept it. HT has said why the arenas had to be split. HT has said that there will never be just one arena again. While you may have been having fun in the "singe arena" set-up the majority where not, and many where leaving....which is bad for a company that is based on those subscriptions. The key word here is "majority". It is unimportant what any single person wants or believes.... well except for HT :D To you or I it's a game, to HT its his livelihood.
So, for his business to prosper he has to have two main arenas, no two ways about it. The problem arises from the "herd" mentality of all humans. Sure more people want to be in orange, but only because that is where the most people are.... more targets, or better protection in hordes, which ever "reason" you want to use, it's only because that is where most of the people are. If you remember back when the new arenas first happened (when they first opened up EW, MW, and a single LW) EVERYBODY was in EW. Why? because it was the arena at the top of the list and was the default selection when you logged on. People either didn't look to change arenas, or when they did they saw the majority of the players where in that arena and so MUST join them.
So human nature says we MUST play in one arena, HTC says we MUST not. All that is left is to figure out a way to EVENLY split the arena population, so we have dynamic caps. HT has said that if someone can come up with a better way of doing it, he'll look at it. Sure he shoots down a lot of ideas on these boards, but I trust that he has server data to back up his position, where we only have speculation. I'm more inclined to believe what he has to say ...about the game.. :D than anyone else.
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The two main arenas are not fun. It's a right pain not being allowed to fly with your squadmates.
I've heard all the counter arguments over and over and none of them stand up to the actual application in regard to the game.
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The arena cap is a handicap at times when there are too few players to justify the cap.
Word !
It make the game boring
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There seems to be a rather even split between the people who think the arena caps is detrmimental to gameplay and those who think it is not.
I've suggested it is, and notible individuals such as Assi, DMBear Steve and other have had the same opinion. Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.
I've played a few games in my short lifetime (I'm 24 currently) but growing up in the middle east meant that it was too hot most of the year to play outside so I would be hardcore multiplayer gaming with my other western buddies click. I haven't come across a game that has hooked me as much as this one yet thought, and it is mostly attested to the multiplayer aspect of it. I simply see the arena caps as inhibiting that aspect because when I want to play with all those people in orange, I can't.
I'm not one to influence hi techs business decisions but think that finding more ways of having many players in a single arena (maybe enhancing ground war and sea war ) without creating a slum-like environment would be the better solution. This would dilute the skies of many new players (ground war is easier) but still keep their interest and therefor preserve and enhance business. Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.
No offence HiTech, but since this thread has a lot of 'Lets get straight to the point' I'm doing that also.
Yet, I still want smaller new maps in LWB as a good alternative to playing with alot of people. Waaaaaa :cry
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To rephrase, many times a customer will phrase what their desire is by means of an implementation. As an example.
A customer wishes to fly with his squad, but phrases it as in I want one arena.
Or a customer will say, I want things to be realistic as possible, and there for I want cowl flaps. In reality the as saying I want to feel as if I am really in a WWII plane.
The issue is the customer does not very often knows the real out come of implementing what he says he wants. He automatically thinks that what he is asking for will give him what he desires, and it normally does not.
HiTech
Bottom line:
While the bargin bins are packed with games whose designers fell short, AH2 has flourished year after year.
That alone is evidence that HT's JUDGEMENT on close design calls is pretty darn reliable. And since he makes his living with this game, HIS stakes are far higher than ours. He has the motivation to do the right thing, and the evidence shows that over time he makes pretty darn good calls. For months prior to the split total AH player numbers were stagnant, but in the months after the total numbers increased steadily.*
In the end, game players vote with their feet. We see the net result, and from the evidence the split worked.
*(I did this research back at the time of the split by digging around to find the worst rankings, and using that to estimate the numbers who logged in...no way I'll repeat that slog)
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Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.
I was VERY vocal in how much I hated the arena split.
If you search posts from when it happened I was quite ticked off and thought it was a terrible idea. (and let HTC know it)
Thing is I can't fault someone for wanting to grow their buisness and me and my squad adapted. You will find us in Blue 99% of the time so we can always fly together. If I choose to fly Orange and it is full, and I just HAVE to fly in Orange, it is rare that I can't get into Orange if I am patient for 5 min. and keep trying.
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You are wrong about this m00t. I know I've ruffled your feathers, but it's really "elementary".
First of all I want two LW arenas. I just don't want them to be capped. Plain and simple.
HT's reply implied that I thought the two arenas were in some way different and thats why I called one "crappy".
I replied that I was referrring to it as crappy because it had only 40 players in it.
Also, Chappy's screenshot at the beggining of this post may have been made after an arena reset, but mine wasn't. It was made in the middle of the day. Log on at 11:30 to 12:30 and this is common. The arena that is actually at a decent # gets reduced when the cap hits untill you have 2 arenas w/ 100 players.
It happens every day.
And thats why people do this...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/ahss113.jpg)
You realize that before 12:00 central there are NO arena caps, right? So your screen shot is showing the result of the caps actually begining to kick in. Nothing more. It is not the norm as far as caps go. As the numbers stabilize and the smaller arena fills up because people cannot get into the full arena you will see numbers like 302/300 and 237/350.
If anything, it refrutes all the "no cap" arguments and supports the HTC system as it is. With no caps, everyone goes to one arena just because that is where everyone is.
If you argue for one capped and one uncapped arena the screen shot is what you would get, only with a greater spread. If you argue for bigger caps, the same. You would again see a bigger spread.
My question about the "sucky" arena is, why is 237/350 so much worse than 237/200? When does the total number in a lower numbered arena start making it "sucky"?
It's not about the totals, it's just that there are less in there so it must not be as good.
It's all about the herd. Go where the numbers are. If all your squad members actually were in the smaller arena, would you join them there if there was room in the larger arena?
It's really not about game play, squads, fights or action. It's all about ME ME ME.
wrongway
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I've always hated the arena split since day 1. To me, it killed the sim aspect of it being a "war" where you could come back each day and see your country's progress. Now it seems it's meant more to cater to the Quake kids. Who cares what happened yesterday because you might not be in that arena today. To me that killed a large part of my AH addiction. Pre-split, winning the war mattered more to people. Nowadays it seems more as a joke to look down on people for, for accomplishing it. The days of strategy on a larger and prolonged scale are gone. The instant gratification Generation X-box crowd are the ones being catered to now. This is a business and its purpose is to draw in new (and younger) customers to make more of a profit, but IMO AH lost its soul when the arenas split.
:salute
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Whether you're "offended" that HT poked fun at some ridiculous aspect of your argument is irrelevent to whether it's true or false. The fact is that subscriptions dropped and gameplay quality fell with the rising numbers (past 500 or so) in a single arena. That you had fun means nothing... I have fun doing stuff that pretty much all other players find masochistic.. I fly into furballs with one of the very worst turning planes and try to stall fight my way out of it.. Zero margin of error. You and I might "know" what the essence of real dogfighting is, but we're certainly no guarantee of what the rest, the bulk of the players want. Like I said, no subscriptions to support AH, no AH. Business is business. I'm certainly not going to use my single pov of what's fun for me as representative of what all players should want.
Nope, not offended. Opps, your having fun being masochistic = no difference than my having fun. Although you might not have considered it, I merely used it as a example of game play back then. And each person who flew back then, as now, has their own reasons for flying the way they do along with why they like the game. If you think they like the game because you like the game you might be sadly mistaken. I also am not HiTech so I cannot state subscriptions dropped off and game quality fell due to rising numbers which is why I ask, not to seem argumentative. Did it really? Who left? Any reasons given? Did you happen to be around during the demise of DOS AW? Do you know why it went dead? It raises another question...had AW not closed due to EA buying and shutting it down would it still be up and running with the player base it had? There were many people flying there and there was no sign of it losing customers. However, it's demise gained many custmers for AH. Ergo;
DOS AW died
WB's was up
AOL PC beta was up and in force
AOL Mac beta got running and was up (If I remember right these were an 18 month contract)
Both went live although Mac was up live and running a little later
Concurrently the PC AW version for the internet began
AH began beta
EA bought out AW. In a short time they closed it.
Huge migration to AH began. In fact, we had 72 people who came over en masse. I already mentioned it. Many had not been flying as RL also had them doing other things. They came anyway. Some of those have since gone inactive. Internal issues within our squad also caused loss, not the game.
Does that mean there is an ebb and flow of players? Where is WB now? I know we've recently picked up some WB guys and welcome!
Is there a finite number of players at any given time? If we lose 2 but pick up 3 then lose 1 is that ebb and flow or loss players because of gameplay?
Put down the freakin violins for a minute. Your "side" of the argument got called a moron.. Maybe it's because there's so many morons on "your side", not because you're necessarily a moron yourself? HT makes his point by poking fun at your argument and you use that as an argument.. You know better than this.
I know HiTech doesn't consider any players morons. He also knows I'm so tough skinned he can call me anything he wants and it rolls off, like you...a duck :)
And I'm not brown noser BTW.. There's plenty of things I absolutely loathe about the game.
You're too inflexible.. The fact is that gameplay suffered from too many players crammed into a single arena. Titanic Tuesday is only as "good" as it is because it happens only once a week, instead of everyday. Even if we took your argument and went with it - that an unrestricted single arena was more fun for you - subscription numbers would still mean that AH was on the way to bankruptcy. Is that what you're arguing for?Brown nosers and morons, what a perfectly accurate depiction of reality.
I wasn't calling you a brown noser. :LOL It was for someone else....:)
I don't "loathe" anything about the game. Each fight brings it's own reward. Even HO dweebs and hordes. It's all part of the game.
I'm still trying to understand how gameplay suffered from too many players. HiTech said its we can handle 1000 without software changes. Hmmmm. software changes....growth? Limit growth? He did mention 200/country channel issues, didn't he? But not a software issue? I brought up ebb and flow of player base. Is there really a limit to the number of people that will come and play?
Is equipment a limit. If you look at WOW what does a player have to bring to the table to play? A $300 joystick setup? His computer is it? This game requires a committment to play a combat flight sim. Yet we have tank wars. And lots of folks play it. Do you have to have an expensive joystick setup to fight a tank battle? or run a bombing mission? Remember the contest to name the "new" game of total air battle. You get to start as a 2nd Looey? How many people did someone say it could handle? 1000? Yet I thought we'd still have other arenas. I wonder that we already have a ground war and bomber war along with our normal dogfighting, what marketing is happening to draw a tank war crowd? Yes, this is a flight combat game. But you could attract more since we already have it. No?
Have we reached the limit without software updates? If so then we have nothing more to say because that is HTC's decision to move forward or stay where they are as that is purely financial.
Personally I don't want to ever see anyone leave this game because of perceived notions of bad game play or not being able to undestand why the need for any arena caps. We have players who get frustrated from not progressing at a pace they'd like to. That's just a training issue, nothing more. We can fix that if they ask. Anyone can learn to avoid a HO or how to have a fun dogfight.
I'd like to see the game continue to grow with more and more players.
As I've read from HT himself, we could have lost AH? I have yet to hear a definitive why. Did 1000 people threaten to leave because they didn't like it? Why? It doesn't make sense to me. All I think most folks are asking for is 2+2 = 4 not we know what you want so don't try and tell us what you want.
Last thing. If they reached a limit no one can ever fault them for not taking what they have and continuing to add more to whats there for players to use. Look at the updates. The more stuff the more interesting and the more diverse the game becomes for exisitng and new players.
CM#2
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Being a euro I pretty rarely see numbers like
full arena you will see numbers like 302/300 and 237/350.
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IMO AH lost its soul when the arenas split.
:salute
Winning the war isn't AH's soul.
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Like all things, the split has its ups and downs. Lute pointed out that if you must fly in 1 arena, just be patient and you will get in rather quickly. Having the 2 wings gives those who are "loyal" to the chess piece, a second option to find a fight rather than switch countries. Go to another arena. ENY too high? Go to the other arena. Simple.
The down sides, imo, is the fact that during off peak hours, we have these huge maps, with only maybe 120 people in the arena, while the other may have another 40-60 people. Isn't there a way to just shut down to one arena after a certain time? Add a <dot> command so people can search for other squads that they like to fly with, not just their own, or even the "super squads", that have 2+ wings, can start searching for their other squad members from different wings.
Just mmy $.02 for what its worth :)
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Pre-split, winning the war mattered more to people. Nowadays it seems more as a joke to look down on people for, for accomplishing it.
It was a joke then, too.
- oldman
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The down sides, imo, is the fact that during off peak hours, we have these huge maps, with only maybe 120 people in the arena, while the other may have another 40-60 people.
seems to me, a problem with the size of the map...
get rid of the big maps, problem solved. why we have maps where there are more bases than players has always boggled me..
(always plays in blue arena -- only time i ever log into orange is to update our squadmotd)
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Winning the war isn't AH's soul.
It was a joke then, too.
- oldman
Both are your opinions, just as I have mine. To each his own.
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we have these huge maps, with only maybe 120 people in the arena, while the other may have another 40-60 people. Isn't there a way to just shut down to one arena after a certain time?
This is what I'm advocating. Smaller maps, 1 late night arena.
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This is what I'm advocating. Smaller maps, 1 late night arena.
+1
Big maps after primetime become really crappy for gameplay. Of course late night, when there is a big map in orange and a small map in blue, blue always becomes dormant anyways so I don't think there's a solution. <shrugs>
Unless you closed the big map arena late night and only had the small map in blue. That would actually be a very interesting idea to try out.
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hey just have the arenas open during office hours......
NOT! :rofl
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Nope, not offended. Opps, your having fun being masochistic = no difference than my having fun.
Don't know what your point is there. That sounds like what I'm saying. One guy's fun isn't necessarily another's fun.
Although you might not have considered it, I merely used it as a example of game play back then. And each person who flew back then, as now, has their own reasons for flying the way they do along with why they like the game. If you think they like the game because you like the game you might be sadly mistaken.
What?
I also am not HiTech so I cannot state subscriptions dropped off and game quality fell due to rising numbers which is why I ask, not to seem argumentative. Did it really? Who left? Any reasons given? Did you happen to be around during the demise of DOS AW? Do you know why it went dead? It raises another question...had AW not closed due to EA buying and shutting it down would it still be up and running with the player base it had? There were many people flying there and there was no sign of it losing customers. However, it's demise gained many custmers for AH. Ergo;
DOS AW died
WB's was up
AOL PC beta was up and in force
AOL Mac beta got running and was up (If I remember right these were an 18 month contract)
Both went live although Mac was up live and running a little later
Concurrently the PC AW version for the internet began
AH began beta
EA bought out AW. In a short time they closed it.
Huge migration to AH began. In fact, we had 72 people who came over en masse. I already mentioned it. Many had not been flying as RL also had them doing other things. They came anyway. Some of those have since gone inactive. Internal issues within our squad also caused loss, not the game.
Does that mean there is an ebb and flow of players? Where is WB now? I know we've recently picked up some WB guys and welcome!
Is there a finite number of players at any given time? If we lose 2 but pick up 3 then lose 1 is that ebb and flow or loss players because of gameplay?
You're getting too far ahead. I see it as an engineering problem, not a scientific one. The theory doesn't matter and isn't my concern. The only thing that matters is if something works, or if you can get it to do what you want it to. The innards of the black box don't matter, only that it spits out what you want it to if you kick it in the right place. Unrestricted single arenas killed gameplay and subscriptions. This isn't about my sense of fun, or yours or anyone in particular, it's about the plain numbers. AH's numbers, not AW a dozen+ years ago, not WB's, or any other formula. You can't compare apples and oranges, not when there's other apples to compare with first. That is, AH before and after the various arena formulas used.
I know HiTech doesn't consider any players morons. He also knows I'm so tough skinned he can call me anything he wants and it rolls off, like you...a duck :)
That's good.
I don't "loathe" anything about the game. Each fight brings it's own reward. Even HO dweebs and hordes. It's all part of the game.
It's not that many things for me. They just stick out like sore thumbs because of how good most of the rest is. Puffy ack. That HTC can't employ more people to crank out more planes; I know it doesn't fit with their plan and I know it's not their fault.. I still don't like it. I loathe the fact that (again not blaming HTC for this one either) so many players totally disregard the mind numbingly simple basics of ACM, timing, etc. Using the CT AI and mission "warping" cued by clicks on a clipboard list of "lessons" so that players can rewind and repeat a particular thing in the blink of an eye is something the game needs yesterday, IMHO.
That's the kind of stuff I loathe.. The hordes and dweebiness is chump change next to my real pet peeves.
I'm still trying to understand how gameplay suffered from too many players. HiTech said its we can handle 1000 without software changes. Hmmmm. software changes....growth? Limit growth? He did mention 200/country channel issues, didn't he? But not a software issue? I brought up ebb and flow of player base. Is there really a limit to the number of people that will come and play?
You're conflating two separate things. Player behavior and hardware/software limits. Player behavior is the problem, not HW/SW.
Is equipment a limit. If you look at WOW what does a player have to bring to the table to play? A $300 joystick setup? His computer is it? This game requires a committment to play a combat flight sim. Yet we have tank wars. And lots of folks play it. Do you have to have an expensive joystick setup to fight a tank battle? or run a bombing mission? Remember the contest to name the "new" game of total air battle. You get to start as a 2nd Looey? How many people did someone say it could handle? 1000? Yet I thought we'd still have other arenas. I wonder that we already have a ground war and bomber war along with our normal dogfighting, what marketing is happening to draw a tank war crowd? Yes, this is a flight combat game. But you could attract more since we already have it. No?
Have we reached the limit without software updates? If so then we have nothing more to say because that is HTC's decision to move forward or stay where they are as that is purely financial.
I kind of see your point but don't see what you're getting at.
Personally I don't want to ever see anyone leave this game because of perceived notions of bad game play or not being able to undestand why the need for any arena caps.
And apparently this is exactly what happened back with the single uncapped arena. How many times does history need to repeat? Everytime someone who wasn't there to see it with his own eyes to believe the lessons those who were there say they learned?
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+1
Big maps after primetime become really crappy for gameplay. Of course late night, when there is a big map in orange and a small map in blue, blue always becomes dormant anyways so I don't think there's a solution. <shrugs>
Unless you closed the big map arena late night and only had the small map in blue. That would actually be a very interesting idea to try out.
Random idea: No need for new map (and required reset), just shrink the can-fly bases with arena population/time.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3623008032_9cfb5a5669.jpg?v=0)
Green are country lines
Big red circles prime time
Beige line is low time
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snip...
I'm not one to influence hi techs business decisions but think that finding more ways of having many players in a single arena (maybe enhancing ground war and sea war ) without creating a slum-like environment would be the better solution. This would dilute the skies of many new players (ground war is easier) but still keep their interest and therefor preserve and enhance business. Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.
No offence HiTech, but since this thread has a lot of 'Lets get straight to the point' I'm doing that also.
Yet, I still want smaller new maps in LWB as a good alternative to playing with alot of people. Waaaaaa :cry
...and in what way would you change things to "enhance" the ground war and why would that ease the "slum type" arena that caused the split arenas?
snip....
I also am not HiTech so I cannot state subscriptions dropped off and game quality fell due to rising numbers which is why I ask, not to seem argumentative. Did it really? Who left? Any reasons given?
Here are a couple of places to get the info you seem to be missing....
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,187226.msg2177536.html#msg2177536
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,187226.msg2180029.html#msg2180029
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Random idea: No need for new map (and required reset), just shrink the can-fly bases with arena population/time.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3623008032_9cfb5a5669.jpg?v=0)
Green are country lines
Big red circles prime time
Beige line is low time
That would at least bring all the action into a smaller area. Not sure how feasible it is though with the way the arenas currently operate.
What I was thinking was just close the Orange arena. You know like when you log on late night, it would say something like Orange (Closed) Blue (150/1000). Don't reset the map or anything, just close it for the dead hours and then reopen it at a certain time with the same war progress sitting there ready to be fought for again in the morning. This is taking into the assumption that Orange has the giant map and Blue has a smaller map. I know this isn't always the case with the rotation system in place currently.
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CMs can already update fields, e.g. in events after everyone's taken off. I was thinking of that same thing but automated the same way ENY automatically adjust with pop numbers.
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CMs can already update fields, e.g. in events after everyone's taken off. I was thinking of that same thing but automated the same way ENY automatically adjust with pop numbers.
I don't know how well it would work though if base takers pushing up through the "Low time area". It would become impossible to stop them with no bases to take off from :) Also, NOE raids deep into enemy territory or even HQ raids would also be impossible to stop. I don't know if you can automatically make all the closed bases uncapturable? :huh
In theory it's a good idea, I just think it's impossible to implement with the current programmed arena setup.
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So you could make the reduced area coincide with a "zone", and that zone be the only damagable one. HQ flashing range could be increased, and you could have the low time zone look different, e.g.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3623112376_e1fec95ed9.jpg?v=0)
Maybe make that string of bases leading to the HQ be the damagable but uncapturable ones. Make the bases outside of the lowtime zone undamagable - zero use in bombing them. They'd still have a flashing range at least as big as the one we have now.
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There are NO arena caps between 12 midnight and 12 noon HTC local time. Therefore, off hours, anyone can fly anywhere they want to.
If you can't find a fight on a large map, obviously someone else is avoiding the enemy to milkrun undefended stuff.
Remember when the split first happened and there was nothing but small maps? Remember the rejoicing when the old, large maps were put back into rotation for a little variety? No?
Why do you see more large maps than small maps? Small maps get reset quickly, and often. Large maps take too much work to reset.
At least you have Tuesdays.
wrongway
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3623112376_e1fec95ed9.jpg?v=0)
MUAHAHAHAHA! If you had rivers running along the green lines as they came to shoreline and on inland you had the standard
AW MAP!!!! :rofl
Talk about being "doomed to repeat history"!!! This is too hilarious!!!
BTW: Top left triangular section was C land, Top rIght was A land. THe area south of the southern rivers was B Land.
:rofl :rofl
Incredible!!!
CM#2
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MUAHAHAHAHA! If you had rivers running along the green lines as they came to shoreline and on inland you had the standard
AW MAP!!!! :rofl
Talk about being "doomed to repeat history"!!! This is too hilarious!!!
BTW: Top left triangular section was C land, Top rIght was A land. THe area south of the southern rivers was B Land.
:rofl :rofl
Incredible!!!
CM#2
And if we're honest about it, that map made for the best fights, was limited land grab and no one cared about the 'next map' because they could find the fight or do whatever on it. It was my first thought when I saw the drawing too :)
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Heart warming non sequitur.
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There are NO arena caps between 12 midnight and 12 noon HTC local time. Therefore, off hours, anyone can fly anywhere they want to.
Remember the rejoicing when the old, large maps were put back into rotation for a little variety?
NO
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And if we're honest about it, that map made for the best fights, was limited land grab and no one cared about the 'next map' because they could find the fight or do whatever on it. It was my first thought when I saw the drawing too :)
Well, there weren't a lot of fields and a sortie to the back 40 of any country didn't take that long but a bombing mission with fighter sweep used to get everyone up and fighting. :) :salute
It was fun but AH2 is much more enjoyable, IMHO. Great folks, a few morons (read CM#2), great game. Now if they would just fix the LW setup we'd be in business. Don't misunderstand me...2 arenas is fine...just one uncapped would be nice :)
Ren
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There are NO arena caps between 12 midnight and 12 noon HTC local time. Therefore, off hours, anyone can fly anywhere they want to.
Seems like the caps flux up to 3-4AM Est...
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Seems like the caps flux up to 3-4AM Est...
When the arenas switch from a static cap of 400 to a dynamic cap, there will always be a period of time where one arena is going to have far more in it than the cap is set to. It happens at 12 noon CST, everyday.
wrongway
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What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map.
This is what I was calling BS on, and is why I do not even really do not even take your points as valid. The arenas are the same , and the terrain set is the same. When the basis of your argument is BS (like the terrain) and can only post screen shots of worst case scenarios of time frames, then you will not be taken seriously by me.
Is also why I no longer take DamedRen serriously
It was fun but AH2 is much more enjoyable, IMHO. Great folks, a few morons (read CM#2), great game. Now if they would just fix the LW setup we'd be in business. Don't misunderstand me...2 arenas is fine...just one uncapped would be nice Smiley
Ren
He just blatantly ignores and tries to hide the fact that the net effect of what he ask for is one arena with a large population that is the basic problem of why the caps were introduced in the first place.
and again this
I'm still trying to understand how gameplay suffered from too many players. HiTech said its we can handle 1000 without software changes. Hmmmm. software changes....growth? Limit growth? He did mention 200/country channel issues, didn't he? But not a software issue? I brought up ebb and flow of player base. Is there really a limit to the number of people that will come and play?
Is equipment a limit. If you look at WOW what does a player have to bring to the table to play? A $300 joystick setup? His computer is it? This game requires a committment to play a combat flight sim. Yet we have tank wars. And lots of folks play it. Do you have to have an expensive joystick setup to fight a tank battle? or run a bombing mission? Remember the contest to name the "new" game of total air battle. You get to start as a 2nd Looey? How many people did someone say it could handle? 1000? Yet I thought we'd still have other arenas. I wonder that we already have a ground war and bomber war along with our normal dogfighting, what marketing is happening to draw a tank war crowd? Yes, this is a flight combat game. But you could attract more since we already have it. No?
Have we reached the limit without software updates? If so then we have nothing more to say because that is HTC's decision to move forward or stay where they are as that is purely financial.
Personally I don't want to ever see anyone leave this game because of perceived notions of bad game play or not being able to undestand why the need for any arena caps. We have players who get frustrated from not progressing at a pace they'd like to. That's just a training issue, nothing more. We can fix that if they ask. Anyone can learn to avoid a HO or how to have a fun dogfight.
I'd like to see the game continue to grow with more and more players.
As I've read from HT himself, we could have lost AH? I have yet to hear a definitive why. Did 1000 people threaten to leave because they didn't like it? Why? It doesn't make sense to me. All I think most folks are asking for is 2+2 = 4 not we know what you want so don't try and tell us what you want.
Last thing. If they reached a limit no one can ever fault them for not taking what they have and continuing to add more to whats there for players to use. Look at the updates. The more stuff the more interesting and the more diverse the game becomes for exisitng and new players.
He just wants to ignore all real facts. And likes to make statements like assuming what HE wants is what MOST players want.
Simple not refutable facts.
1. Before arena split AH was not longer growing.
2. After arena split AH started growing fast than it ever had.
Now there really is only 1 reason for this, more people are having fun, and thus subscribe.
and then key statements like this.
As I've read from HT himself, we could have lost AH? I have yet to hear a definitive why. Did 1000 people threaten to leave because they didn't like it? Why? It doesn't make sense to me. All I think most folks are asking for is 2+2 = 4 not we know what you want so don't try and tell us what you want.
Does it make any real difference why? Game play issues I will discuss, but do I really need to discuss all HTC's financial's ?
There seems to be a rather even split between the people who think the arena caps is detrmimental to gameplay and those who think it is not.
I've suggested it is, and notible individuals such as Assi, DMBear Steve and other have had the same opinion. Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.
I've played a few games in my short lifetime (I'm 24 currently) but growing up in the middle east meant that it was too hot most of the year to play outside so I would be hardcore multiplayer gaming with my other western buddies click. I haven't come across a game that has hooked me as much as this one yet thought, and it is mostly attested to the multiplayer aspect of it. I simply see the arena caps as inhibiting that aspect because when I want to play with all those people in orange, I can't.
I'm not one to influence hi techs business decisions but think that finding more ways of having many players in a single arena (maybe enhancing ground war and sea war ) without creating a slum-like environment would be the better solution. This would dilute the skies of many new players (ground war is easier) but still keep their interest and therefor preserve and enhance business. Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.
No offence HiTech, but since this thread has a lot of 'Lets get straight to the point' I'm doing that also.
Yet, I still want smaller new maps in LWB as a good alternative to playing with alot of people. Waaaaaa :cry
Saantaa: Agree with your sentiment, but what you do not realize is that every thing we could think of was tried.
Clearly, the cap system in my view was the easier way out to enhance business without much effort from the companies side.
But this statement is utter BS. Just because you wish something could work, does not mean it will work. You make extreme assumptions
first
've suggested it is, and notible individuals such as Assi, DMBear Steve and other have had the same opinion. Then theres the other side, moot, lute and such.
Makes each side of the argument equal. Refer to my simple 2 facts to understand the 2 sides of the argument are not equal. People vote with there $ . Your only trying to talk theoretical, and have posted no new ideas, other than.
It would be better if we changed to 1 arena and come up with a new idea that everyone would like. This is equivalent to saying
It would be better if we came up with a new energy source that did not pollute did not cost anything and was completely renewable.
Or more on topic.
It would be better if we would come up with a way to make all people happy the split arenas.
I.E. to all of these thoughts most people would say.
Well Duhhhhhh. I.E. you are just stating the obvious.
HiTech
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Seems to me that htc has more resources and ways of looking at things that work for them, which translates into more game for us. Want a quick look at what happens when companies try to please everyone to the detriment of the company? I refer you to General Motors, as a starting place.
htc has the final word anyhow, so we can live with what they give us and enjoy it, or be among the few who are disgruntled.
Personally, I will take what they give us, and enjoy it, regardless of what is going on. I am not thrilled with some of the things hitech has implemented, but if it works for them to keep us flying, so be it.
The statement (paraphrased) that they wanted to stay a small company and make the best game possible seems to be true, and God bless them for all the hours of enjoyment and frustration they have provided.
(Spell check is cool, but to limited. An add word feature sure would be great.) :D
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Simple not refutable facts.
1. Before arena split AH was not longer growing.
2. After arena split AH started growing fast than it ever had.
Now there really is only 1 reason for this, more people are having fun, and thus subscribe.
1st of all it's CM#1, I figure Steve isn't clueless...
Have a nice weekend? I been without power on and off since I got home on Sunday. Come to find out a Tornado hit our town.
The only questions that has never been answered are these. There are different arena's. People go to different arenas which please them.
I understand that is not refutable.
Before split AH was not growing. After arena split it's growing? Not refutable...
Don't the same people still go into the arena of their choice? With the exception of the LW arenas? You get the same small group in EW and MW. You have roughly the same numbers in the DA? There is FSO and scenarios. Even a TA for new folks to learn.
IF and I say IF Blue ends up being overflow for most folks trying to get into Orange except for a small group that prefer a small fight with a very limited number of people but still want to use LW planes, isn't HTC already giving them that? If they don't want to fly in Orange no one is asking them to fly there. They can go Blue as they wish. You say yourself both are identical. The only difference is the number of people.
Why would it be so farfetched to believe that if the number of Orange participants grew because they wanted to fly in a large arena yet the Blue remained available for those people who want to have fun fighting a smaller group and still have the other arenas for their use?
Finally, why, those who would leave because of no split have no reason to leave because there is a split arena and they have a choice of which one they wish to fly in?
It would make sense if everyone is happy then no one leaves unless RL hits them between the eye. It also makes sense that people will continue to come to the game begin to learn, eventually chose what suits them in game play and do it.
It's a WIN-WIN situation and no where did I personally either thru deception or otherwise say ONE ARENA ONLY. Two are fine, just why the CAP?
Your response is also irrefutable...Because if there was an unlimited CAP on one of the arenas everyone would go there!!! That's not my statement for 1 arena. It's yours. If everyone wants to be there then people leave. That's also your statement. WHAT!!!!
That is WHY I'M confused! If everyone is happy why would there be a loss of people to the game???
To put it Johnny Cochrans immortal words, "it just don't make sense".
[qoute]Does it make any real difference why? Game play issues I will discuss, but do I really need to discuss all HTC's financial's ?[/quote]
I would hope no one is interested in HTC from a personal finance point of view as its no ones biz, other than it continues to operate. IF it requires additional capitol to grow the game to make for uncapped arenas everywhere it would MAKE SENSE to delay the expenditures giving the Countries monetary troubles. IF that was the case it, too, is no ones business...
To say capping promotes growth is kind of like dealing in opposites. Cap indicates putting a limit on something. Grow indicates expansion. The two would appear to be mutually exclusive....
CM#1
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Once again Ren, you completely ignore the concept of the herd.
HiTech
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Once again Ren, you completely ignore the concept of the herd.
HiTech
I wish I was... but the question remains...if everyone gets what they want (hopefully at no extra expense to HTC) what difference does it make if one arena has a herd as long as the other arena is identical and allows those who don't wish to take part in the herd mentality a place to go? The herd people do their thing. If someone in there doesn't like it no big deal they can still go and fly the same, same everything without the herd. They don't bug out of the game. they continue to have fun. More people continue to find and come to the game. They too learn and finally chose the arena that suits them.
I find it hard to understand how it would conflict with growth within the game.
In fact, ( I know this won't happen however.....) why not change the names of the Arena's. Maybe Orange could be called "The Great Horde" or The Big One", and Blue maybe.... Late War Excellence...Have a naming contest! But, the name would tell everyone what they could expect in there. The only limit would be just how fast you might grow...
I am in no way trying to undermine the great game of AH2. I'm only thinking out loud, in discussion, to see how far it CAN go. Not limit arenas for those who want in. I never want to see anyone leave the game. I've been playing it for a long time now and go out of my way to work with anyone who wants it to allow them to have a more enjoyable game play. Hopefully they will be staying in the game for years to come.
CM#1
aka Ren
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Assume both arenas are uncapped...
During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150. There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying. It's just human nature. Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100. All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange. Orange 800 Blue 0.
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.
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Assume both arenas are uncapped...
During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150. There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying. It's just human nature. Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100. All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange. Orange 800 Blue 0.
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.
I go to Orange when able because it has the most people.
Moo.
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Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is. Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue more full than orange. I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue. Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic Tuesday sized orange arena.
.BeLiAL.
P.S.
You could actually add Late War Magenta with a favorable ground game map to make the 33% of players happy who gv 90% of the time. This may sound crazy but I really think alot of players would enjoy a large TT map to play on as their 3rd alternative.
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Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is. Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue fuller than orange. I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue. Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic tuesday sized orange arena.
.BeLiAL.
Orange is always full because when people have the choice they will go to the more populated arena whether or not gameplay is actually better, as HT has said and is easily observed to be true. That's the herd mentality he's talking about.
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Late war orange is for some reason the preferred arena no matter what the map is. Once in the year i've been playing did I see blue fuller than orange. I think what Rens saying is you dont need to eliminate orange and blue. Rather make orange unlimited, but also offer Blue as an escape from the titanic tuesday sized orange arena.
If Orange is unlimited, Blue won't have 250-350 people/night that it normally has. Probably more like 100 with a lot of toolshedders. Once Orange significantly outnumbers Blue, Blue players will question the quality of their fights and go check out orange. It's inevitable that the giant unlimited arena will engulf the smaller arena everytime. What you are left with is a 700+ player Orange arena lagged to hell with frame rates in the 20s, giant hordes everywhere, and complete degradation of game play. I can't even imagine how difficult it is for the new player to compete in giant furballs and hordes with lag every where. I'd quit on day 2 if that was the case.
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Assume both arenas are uncapped...
During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150. There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying. It's just human nature. Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100. All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange. Orange 800 Blue 0.
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.
Exactly: I.E. The net effect is 1 arena, and 1 arena over crowded = less customers = not as many people having fun.
To sum it up again 1 arena = Less people having fun.
HiTech
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Exactly: I.E. The net effect is 1 arena, and 1 arena over crowded = less customers = not as many people having fun.
To sum it up again 1 arena = Less people having fun.
HiTech
You have the patience of a Saint. :salute
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I see your point hitech a 3rd arena anywhere ballpark of a possibility as I described?
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Assume both arenas are uncapped...blah blah blah (to cut down on repeat quotes).
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.
Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily :lol ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?
One thing to remember...the game costs $15 a month or 50 cents a day. Anyone buy a bottled water today? How about a case of em? Did you pay 50 cents a bottle for the case? Anyone smoke a pack a day? In most states you paid for AH2 in 3 days if you smoke a pack a day. And NO, IM NOT ASKING PEOPLE SHOULD PAY MORE! I'm saying with the economy tanked the way it is growth may slow or even crawl. If your business was slowing to a crawl would you go out and update everything? Or maybe maintain a status quo until the economy turned the corner.
If this is the wrong time to ask for what appears to be possible but should be delayed then that is a very acceptable answer to me. Smart corporate decisions keep businesses afloat. Here, here! I'm currently holding a job....today.....not so sure about tomorrow...I'm probably not the only one in the same boat. The economy will turn. The real question is when. Perhaps, I'll say employed thru it. The main thing is this is a great game and I want to see it stay in business.
I think many folks use the game as an escape from RL. They make friends and enjoy a camaraderie of WW2 interest. I also think people accept hard decisions when forced on them to protect the integrity of the game. As long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Agree?
CM#1
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Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily :lol ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?
One thing to remember...the game costs $15 a month or 50 cents a day. Anyone buy a bottled water today? How about a case of em? Did you pay 50 cents a bottle for the case? Anyone smoke a pack a day? In most states you paid for AH2 in 3 days if you smoke a pack a day. And NO, IM NOT ASKING PEOPLE SHOULD PAY MORE! I'm saying with the economy tanked the way it is growth may slow or even crawl. If your business was slowing to a crawl would you go out and update everything? Or maybe maintain a status quo until the economy turned the corner.
If this is the wrong time to ask for what appears to be possible but should be delayed then that is a very acceptable answer to me. Smart corporate decisions keep businesses afloat. Here, here! I'm currently holding a job....today.....not so sure about tomorrow...I'm probably not the only one in the same boat. The economy will turn. The real question is when. Perhaps, I'll say employed thru it. The main thing is this is a great game and I want to see it stay in business.
I think many folks use the game as an escape from RL. They make friends and enjoy a camaraderie of WW2 interest. I also think people accept hard decisions when forced on them to protect the integrity of the game. As long as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Agree?
CM#1
I've never even had a problem getting into the arena of my choice with little more than 2 minutes of effort anyways. This is a circus. HiTech has already explained very reasonably and patiently the reason for the caps and if you continue to ignore the facts for why the caps are good for gameplay, business, server health, then.. <facepalm>. The only times in the day where it's hard to get into the capped arena is during a 30 min(or so) transition period in the middle of the day and during primetime for about 2 minutes of exiting, relogging, and trying to join again. A small price to pay for two healthy arenas with good gameplay, an increase in customers, and a CHOICE of which arena/map you want to fly on in LW.
HiTech said that if you have a problem with the cap system, suggest a better idea that accomplishes the same thing. Two uncapped arenas will not accomplish the same thing.
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Ok then. The herd arena is for the herdees (that a word? well it should be since the media makes up new words daily :lol ) BUT Hitech says people have left because they don't want to be part of the herd. They'd prefer less loaded up arenas? If that's the case they can stay in Blue where they wanted to be in the first place. No one would push them away. If they are where they want to be and the rest of the herd is where they want to be + the rest of the players in other arenas are where they want to be who's leaving because they ain't having fun? See what I'm asking?
I believe that most of us do see what your asking ... what you are failing to see/understand was best described here ...
Assume both arenas are uncapped...
During Primetime if orange has 600 players and Blue has 200... before long Orange will have 650, blue will have 150. There's always the desire to fly where everybody else is flying. It's just human nature. Then Orange will have 700, Blue will have 100. All of a sudden there aren't enough players in Blue to have reasonable fun so they all flock to orange. Orange 800 Blue 0.
I think this is the 'herd concept' HiTech refers to.
End result ... 1 SLUM arena.
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Only thing that really bothers me about arena caps is when the arena with Tank Town is up that is usually full and hard to get in. (im talking about the regular TT map not the newer one with 10bases crammed into 1 sector by the way :) )
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Response to Slapshot...
I saw that but how can it be a valid argument?
If the argument is for better game play with less people by some folks then those people need only go to Blue arena. What's so difficult to understand about that?
Unless someone is trying to say that of all people that fly in LW arena only 100 are truly upset with an uncapped arena?
What does that say about the people 700-800 alluded to be in the Orange arena? That sure seems like a lot of people who don't know what they want. If that leaves 100 people upset enough to quit and leave why are they replaced by another 100? And of those 100 are all just waiting to be one of the 100 or do they want to go into the Orange arena, too? So, if there is continual replacement of a small 100 but always a huge group in the big one are you saying they'd rather be in with the 100? If so, who's holding them back? The only people being held back are those wanting to get into the big arena.
At no time, during prime time have I personally seen anyone have to wait to get into the Blue arena. Yet there is a continual waiting line to get into the Orange arena. Where are all these people that (for what ever their reasons are) say they hate bad game play and just want to be left alone in the Blue arena?
Ergo, 1 slum arena is the blue arena. I think I'm beginning to understand that maybe some of a small select few are complaining that they only want their own arena...not really 100 people strong but maybe 200-300. So they can be left alone, to do their thing. And leave the big arena to the big kids...The only problem appears to be that there MIGHT NOT BE 200-300 people that want to fly with the select 100 few?
So, the issue is the reverse of what presented...Cater to the select few so they can have fun at the detriment of all the rest. Ok, I am beginning to understand now. It sounds like history again is repeating itself. Those who were around long ago know what I'm talking about.
Not a problem. When I'm ready to get up again I'll just wait my turn....The few shall inherit the ea...err....AH2.
CM#1
Modified to say it's also interresting to note that no matter how filled up Orange gets on FSO it unloads for that. What does that say about Blue and the select few?
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The few shall inherit the ea...err....AH2.
I have no designs or wish to become the lord and master of Aces High. HT does an outstanding job already.
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I have no designs or wish to become the lord and master of Aces High. HT does an outstanding job already.
:x the few are not the lord and master but those who... yer trolling!....:x
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I saw that but how can it be a valid argument?
Ahhhhh logic? Ahhhhh data that proves it? Ahhhhh basic intelligence? Ahhhhh A minimal understanding of cause and effect? Ahhhhh simply opening your eyes and seeing how people behave?
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Ren how about those select few (a strawman appeal to ridicule) don't want to fly in a 60 player arena with a chance of it not even being even sided? What if such an empty arena is even worse fun than a single slummed out arena? What if those two are a choice between bad and worse, compared to a capped arena, or a couple of capped arenas with ENY-encouraged (or enforced when it gets outta hand, e.g. eny~13+) side balancing? What if the only way to have such a balanced arena with the right range of players (E.G. over 100, under 500) is to cap the arenas?
What if the only way to keep players from not griefing each other, or to keep things playable due to human error, is to implement systems like FF killshooter? Side switching time limits? And so on. Sounds like that's precisely the reality of it.
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Hitech I ask again is a 3rd arena with a TT map a possibility? Would give a good gv fight and furball all the time which alot of people love.
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Hitech I ask again is a 3rd arena with a TT map a possibility? Would give a good gv fight and furball all the time which alot of people love.
Is possible, but I do not believe it would see many people. Assuming TT means tank town?
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This is what I was calling BS on, and is why I do not even really do not even take your points as valid. The arenas are the same , and the terrain set is the same. When the basis of your argument is BS (like the terrain) and can only post screen shots of worst case scenarios of time frames, then you will not be taken seriously by me.
Here was my original quote
"What sucks worse than 1 arena is having two arenas and being told you have to go to the crappy one with a giant map and 15 people on each country. Meanwhile. the arena you can't get in has a large % of people just sitting in the tower afk so that when they do want to play they won't be locked out."
I didn't say a giant crappy map. I said a crappy giant map. Crappy because of the #'s. Kinda makes me think of Bill Clinton :rolleyes: , but I know there is no difference in the arenas themselves. This is the 2nd time I have clarified that for you.
I do agree about human nature though. Using that assumption, I would think that the arena which you know will be lighter in #'s should be a small map.
I guess my example is not valid because it is a worst case scenario? Well, I guess people never use those in an argument. :rolleyes:
If pointing out the worst case scenarios is so bad, why not tell all of the Fanboys that using the best case scenarios that you will not take them seriously? For example. "I never have trouble getting in", or I prefer blue, "there aren't lame hordes there".
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HiTech, I appologize for the mean spirit and moment of utter frustration that this post was conceived. I can only hope that some good can come from bad.....Many people have offered ideas ..I like the idea of areana's just being open or closed and not knowing the # of people in each. Hitech can you comment on any ideas you found plausible or maybe worth pursuing?
Also any chance that titanic Tuesday could also become Titanic Thursday? ....just a thought...I know I'm and idiott but Tuesday is the day I look forward to the most.
999000 <S>
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I think the slum'd out arena slapshot alluded to was the smaller one....no one there...slums, etc...
I'm the last guy too ridicule...remember? CM#1?
Ref 60 player arena, one sided....isn't that the complaint on another thread right now? 20 people up? 19 are in one country?
How do you cap the country? Make squadies fly against each other? Wait something about perk farming also.... Ah well that really is another story...
ENY enforcement is not a part of the conversation but since you mention it take a look at how many guys flock to the short country to be able to go find good fights? They are not necessarily there for perk planes but to have fun fights. Take another look and see how many peeps really change sides just because their side is currently short of flyers. Granted, there are a few that change so they get a chance to take a ride they can't afford but that is not the majority. IMHO side balancing is somewhat a waste of time but since it doesn't affect play so much no one really cares too much.
Yer also going off topic with Killshooter, etc. For kill shooter to be correct there should be NO IMPACT to friendly planes, including the guy who inadvertently flew through the bullet stream of someone because he was in such a hurry to pick the kill. Look back over some topics on the forums (I prolly can't find em cause Im a clueless moron) ref killshooter. It really isn't that difficult to fly thru some other guys stream and thereby "killshoot" him. That's as about as realistic as HO model. Come on, in RL, which I thought this game tried to emulate somewhat, if a guy ran through someone else stream he died. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. It understandable we need killshooter but artificially inducing kills that really should be the other way around is only good for a laugh, unless you're the guy die'n. The guys doing it on purpose sure are laughing. Makes ya wonder if anyone ever reviews the films with a drink in their hands are spillin their drinks for thinking that one up. :) How funny is that!!! :x Come on now, they can do better than that!
Again off topic but side switching times limits will work...if the guys ain't over in the EW perk farmin :x I guess no one thought of that. I guess if it limits perk farming for war wins but it's ok to perk in another arena then so be it.
Back on topic. I've been out of town for the past week so I haven't seen cap numbers but I suspect it's more like 100-300 with an occasional 100-400. I can't remember the last time I saw an arena cap of 100-500 but hey I'm just CM#1. 100-500 would be a good start though :) .
Note: times change, people change, equipment changes, thought processes change. What happened 4-5 years ago might not be what's happening now. Once tried, always died?
If I remember right there was a big push to create a huge multiplayer arena with tons of AI planes and earning rank. Kinda like a real aerial war game with missions. We even had a contest to name it. What's relevant is and I gotta dig back in my memory was that we'd have a 1000 person huge arena with missions. BUT! There would also be some of the original arenas for those that still wanted it. When I look back and see arena caps it makes me wonder that it would or wouldn't have worked. 2 countries? Kinda like FSO. Every night?
In old days gone by it was fun to up a mission deep into enemy territory. When we finished everyone had a good laugh and we all went back to dogfighting. key words...back to dogfighting... I'm not here to say the idea was wrong. It was a great idea. But after the arena caps IMHO I'm not so sure it would last.
CM#1
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What does that say about the people 700-800 alluded to be in the Orange arena? That sure seems like a lot of people who don't know what they want. If that leaves 100 people upset enough to quit and leave why are they replaced by another 100? And of those 100 are all just waiting to be one of the 100 or do they want to go into the Orange arena, too? So, if there is continual replacement of a small 100 but always a huge group in the big one are you saying they'd rather be in with the 100? If so, who's holding them back? The only people being held back are those wanting to get into the big arena.
Ren ...
You could come up with a billion different scenarios to support your point ... but the bottom line is that HT has access to the database and the "numbers" that prove his point ... and it's irrefutable. He was losing business and/or stagnant ... he split the arenas ... he has more subscribers now than he has ever had.
You keep ignoring the "human nature" aspect of what HT (and others) are trying to point out. If HT uncapped both arenas, it wouldn't be very long before Orange was the only LW arena that was being used due to the fact that eventually everyone, and even those who do prefer Blue at the moment, would eventually end up going to Orange.
Why do some people prefer Blue ? ... They like the "numbers" that are in that arena ... Why are there "numbers" in Blue ? ... because Blue catches the fallout from Orange and, for the most part, some who are forced to use Blue end up staying there for the night because they do/might get involved in the conflict and choose to stay for the night.
Take that away and Blue will have less numbers than EW and MW combined, if any at all, and Orange will become the "slum" that it was before the split.
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I think the slum'd out arena slapshot alluded to was the smaller one....no one there...slums, etc...
Nope ... "slum'd out" meant that there were lots of people, the arena became "impersonal", the conversation on 200 was filled mostly with anger ... which I think was what was driving the "new" players away.
Ren ... I was getting real close to canceling my account due to what the "single" arena environment had to offer after 6 years of playing this game. For me, personally, the whole split was a godsend ... I love the MW arena (best balanced plane set in the whole game) and if nothing is going on there ... I move on over to the Blue arena ... the numbers in Blue remind me of my AH1 days, where you can get into good fights, and not have to fight off 6 of your own countrymen for a kill or constantly have to fly into 6 v 1 engagements.
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Is possible, but I do not believe it would see many people. Assuming TT means tank town?
Hitech I believe 33.33% of the current players would be tickled pink if a 3rd map was added. 33.3% may not seem like much, but this would make the Orange arena less congested and provide yet another alternative to the Blue arena.
May I suggest Ndisles or Ozkansas which are both well know tank town maps. Both of these maps would allow constant Air battles as well as Land battles.
You could call it Late War Red and try it for a short period and see the response from the community.
<Salute>
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Think of it like drinking and going out on the town
One is a big dance club - loud music, fancy drinks and lots of eye-candy. It's packed wall to wall.
Everybody meets up with all their friends there - it's the place to be.
The other is a little dive bar - There's not a lot going on there, for now.
So you go out on the town and hit the popular big bar. Dale the doorman says "hello" and lets you in. You get in and it's cool just being there.
as the night goes on, it gets crowded, drunk idiots stumble into you, fights break out, it's hot in there, music is too loud, the waitress is MIA, and the bar is 12 deep.
Takes 45 mins to get a drink. Not much fun now. You step out for a minute for some fresh air and then try to go back in. Dale the doorman says "Sorry, we're over fire code..you can't go in. You can wait in line or there's the bar across the street."
So you head over to the small bar across the street. It's quiet - nice song on the jukebox. Bartender gives you a cold beer.
you get to chill and relax. Pretty soon your friends tire of the big bar or can't get in because of fire code and come over. It's fun and more people come in and it turns into
a good time. There's elbow room, everyone has a seat and drinks are flowing. The place starts filling up in and you realize it's actually a pretty fun place.
It's better than standing outside heckling a doorman who won't let you in. :)
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WAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFLE ! /HUG! :salute
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Hitech I believe 33.33% of the current players would be tickled pink if a 3rd map was added. 33.3% may not seem like much, but this would make the Orange arena less congested and provide yet another alternative to the Blue arena.
May I suggest Ndisles or Ozkansas which are both well know tank town maps. Both of these maps would allow constant Air battles as well as Land battles.
You could call it Late War Red and try it for a short period and see the response from the community.
<Salute>
Belial, Why not start a new thread. Hitech has validated it somewhat.
I think its worth a trial, and I think it would at least be interesting to hear the pros and cons...Cue Clapton.
"Heavy metal" arena maybe? :x
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You step out for a minute for some fresh air and then try to go back in. Dale the doorman says "Sorry, we're over fire code..you can't go in. You can wait in line or there's the bar across the street."
So you head over to the small bar across the street. It's quiet - nice song on the jukebox. Bartender gives you a cold beer.
you get to chill and relax. Pretty soon your friends tire of the big bar or can't get in because of fire code and come over. It's fun and more people come in and it turns into
a good time. There's elbow room, everyone has a seat and drinks are flowing. The place starts filling up in and you realize it's actually a pretty fun place.
It's better than standing outside heckling a doorman who won't let you in. :)
All good, unless the place you were in was full of hot chicks and the dive bar is named Sausage Haus. :D
Wait, I see youre an Aggie...still might be fun in that case. ;)
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Why do some people prefer Blue ? ... They like the "numbers" that are in that arena ... Why are there "numbers" in Blue ? ... because Blue catches the fallout from Orange and, for the most part, some who are forced to use Blue end up staying there for the night because they do/might get involved in the conflict and choose to stay for the night.
Which is exactly my point. BTW, most folks I see coming into Orange were merely waiting for a slot to open and left Blue when it did.
Don't get me wrong a few stay and do enjoy it. But if that was the case, why not "chose it" and go fly there for the night? That does not happen much.
In the meantime, how long before someone, who wants to fly Orange, gets tired of the hassle and exits the game? I'd sure hate to see that happen. I wonder if an exit poll might help the Company. Something like;
We are sorry to see you leave. We enjoyed your company in our game and hoped it was everything you thought it would be.
As such we ask you answer a simple exit questionaire that might help us help others to enjoy the game. All answers are strictly confidential.
Please check the box which best fits;
( ) RL is getting in the way.
( ) A job change forces me to stop for a while
( ) I just couldn't come to grips with how to dogfight
( ) I tried but couldn't get into the arenas where I wanted to fly
( ) Too much grief on 200
( ) My dad stopped my allowance
( ) I can't afford the equipment to fly
( ) My two weeks was up
( ) No one would help me
( ) Arenas were one big trash talking, slum
( ) Answer in your own words here:
blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah
Thanks again for being with AH2. We wish you well and hope we might see you again.
Sometimes people put up their reasons why on the forum boards. They usually get slammed by the typical forum denizens.
The real question is how do you know what'd really broke if all you have to go by is "we tried this and numbers went down, so we're trying this" If it brought more people to AH2 was it the commercials? Word of mouth? Someone at work? In the TA we find all kinds of reasons. It's never been asked of us to do so but wee could ask the simple question and report it. Something like
"Welcome to AH2. You're gonna find it's a fun game so let's get started". BTW, what made you come over to AH2?"
"Well, I flew a sim 8 years ago and I just found this one. I thought Id give it a try?"
reply, "Really how'd ya find us?" blah blah blah. I'm sure you get my drift on this.
Heck, they get a 2 week free trial, all it should cost is "Hi,how'd you hear about us?" on sign up or do we do that now? I haven't signed up in years.....
My thought is people come and people go. Thank em for their participation. It would sure make it easier to tailor the game to the needs and wants of people. You can always learn something. Even from someone who's on their way out.
I was kinda hoping this kind of discussion was possible. New idea's to be thought of and discarded as required.
CM#1
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Better fights in Blue IMO
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Kazzaa, see the forum posting rules
Now back to my past
I think that it would be a good idea to have a new arena. It could be used as a test-bed for new ideas, (B-29,submarines, nukes, etc., just to calm the crazed noobs for a while :D) But there is the problem of the fact that so many are in Orange for no good reason, and too few are left in Blue. I think that there should be .1 perks taken off of your sortie's score for each person over 400 in Orange, and .1 added for every person over 100 in Blue, but the Rule that applies for orange also applies to blue, to prevent farming, and just moving the slum.
This way, we don't have a mob in either, and neither arena is left to be a ghost town. But, anyway, +1 to you idea 999000 :aok
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Nope ... "slum'd out" meant that there were lots of people, the arena became "impersonal", the conversation on 200 was filled mostly with anger ... which I think was what was driving the "new" players away.
Ren ... I was getting real close to canceling my account due to what the "single" arena environment had to offer after 6 years of playing this game. For me, personally, the whole split was a godsend ... I love the MW arena (best balanced plane set in the whole game) and if nothing is going on there ... I move on over to the Blue arena ... the numbers in Blue remind me of my AH1 days, where you can get into good fights, and not have to fight off 6 of your own countrymen for a kill or constantly have to fly into 6 v 1 engagements.
SlapShot,
I'd hate to see you leave and hope you hang around for a long time. The question becomes is it really all that bad? Times change. This isn't AH1 anymore. There are more people. You say you love the MW. Has anyone forced you out due cap limits? You also say you like the Blue arena because it reminds you of old AH1. You don't like Orange so it has no effect on you at all because you choose not to fly there for your given reasons. There's number to fudgums...he prefers Blue also so Orange is not effecting him either.
Many folks get up in Orange and find lots of 1v1, 2v2's, etc. and enjoy their flying there. To begrudge them doing that is different than them saying MW stinks and Im gonna close my account because of it. They fly elsewhere and have fun just like you do.
CM#1
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There's number to fudgums...he prefers Blue also so Orange is not effecting him either.
Better fights in Blue, but friends are in orange. I prefer AvA either way, there are no word to the fights there but great
Many folks get up in Orange and find lots of 1v1, 2v2's, etc. and enjoy their flying there.
I would plead the fifth
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Ironic for me to say such a thing, but Ren, your posts are too long. Or that and I lose patience reading them, somehow.
I think the slum'd out arena slapshot alluded to was the smaller one....no one there...slums, etc...
Wrong. I can't help but wonder how good your handle on what others' arguments are when you misinterpret such a clearly said, simple thing.
I'm the last guy too ridicule...remember? CM#1?
Extraneous levity and I'm not sure you aren't.
Ref 60 player arena, one sided....isn't that the complaint on another thread right now? 20 people up? 19 are in one country?
It's not the crux of the argument. It just supports the point that you're worse off in a small arena with uneven odds than in a large arena; but that's not the point >>>>>>>>>>>>> They are both bad alternatives.
How do you cap the country? Make squadies fly against each other? Wait something about perk farming also.... Ah well that really is another story...
Not the point. It's part of the story, which you failed to understand. You're counter-arguing a point I'm not making.
ENY enforcement is not a part of the conversation but since you mention it take a look at how many guys flock to the short country to be able to go find good fights? They are not necessarily there for perk planes but to have fun fights. Take another look and see how many peeps really change sides just because their side is currently short of flyers. Granted, there are a few that change so they get a chance to take a ride they can't afford but that is not the majority. IMHO side balancing is somewhat a waste of time but since it doesn't affect play so much no one really cares too much.
This is missing the point, but I'll refute while im at it: What is the alternative to ENY as it is? No ENY balancing incentive? We'd have totally lopsided odds. Do you see the point being made? This ENY tangent is on topic because the argument I'm supporting with this example is that players aren't perfectly reliable as positive trend setters. Let them do it all as they please and they'll go for the path of least resistance. The game degrades. The game closes.
In bold: those few are enough. The system works.
Underlined: Support your assertion that it's a "Waste of time", and suggest a better alternative. Failing that, it's the least worst alternative and therefore the best one, the one to have.
Yer also going off topic with Killshooter, etc. For kill shooter to be correct there should be NO IMPACT to friendly planes, including the guy who inadvertently flew through the bullet stream of someone because he was in such a hurry to pick the kill. Look back over some topics on the forums (I prolly can't find em cause Im a clueless moron) ref killshooter. It really isn't that difficult to fly thru some other guys stream and thereby "killshoot" him. That's as about as realistic as HO model. Come on, in RL, which I thought this game tried to emulate somewhat, if a guy ran through someone else stream he died. Not the guy who pulled the trigger. It understandable we need killshooter but artificially inducing kills that really should be the other way around is only good for a laugh, unless you're the guy die'n. The guys doing it on purpose sure are laughing. Makes ya wonder if anyone ever reviews the films with a drink in their hands are spillin their drinks for thinking that one up. :) How funny is that!!! :x Come on now, they can do better than that!
Point missed again. KS's another example of having to find some compromise between making channeling players down the right paths of gameplay and not being too intrusive on their freedom of choosing how to play. What do you suggest, no killshooter? What do you suggest, uncapped arenas? The game has and will grow into a single arena slum. The only positive scenario I see is enough people being fed up with the slum arena, and going to the other one.. But as with "the few people that switch because of ENY / to help balance things out", it'd be only a small fraction of the players, and the main out-take for players would be that Aces High is just a big slum arena. They'd log off and call it quits before making an effort to improve things on their own. It would be "HTC's fault". It would be "not worth 15 bucks".
Again off topic but side switching times limits will work...if the guys ain't over in the EW perk farmin :x I guess no one thought of that. I guess if it limits perk farming for war wins but it's ok to perk in another arena then so be it.
Idem, point missed. It's another unavoidable safeguard to keep players channeled away from undesirable trends. Spying, etc. An instance given as supporting evidence that players aren't reliable as keepers of game quality. The path of least resistance is their main trend when they're left unchecked. Car bombing was another. Runway ackstaring another. Etc.
Back on topic. I've been out of town for the past week so I haven't seen cap numbers but I suspect it's more like 100-300 with an occasional 100-400. I can't remember the last time I saw an arena cap of 100-500 but hey I'm just CM#1. 100-500 would be a good start though :) .
I'm all ears to any evidence that HT hasn't been telling the truth.
Note: times change, people change, equipment changes, thought processes change. What happened 4-5 years ago might not be what's happening now. Once tried, always died?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Prove the trend wrong and I'm sure HTC will be glad to give it a try. Right now though, that's a flimsy argument.
If I remember right there was a big push to create a huge multiplayer arena with tons of AI planes and earning rank. Kinda like a real aerial war game with missions. We even had a contest to name it. What's relevant is and I gotta dig back in my memory was that we'd have a 1000 person huge arena with missions. BUT! There would also be some of the original arenas for those that still wanted it. When I look back and see arena caps it makes me wonder that it would or wouldn't have worked. 2 countries? Kinda like FSO. Every night?
In old days gone by it was fun to up a mission deep into enemy territory. When we finished everyone had a good laugh and we all went back to dogfighting. key words...back to dogfighting... I'm not here to say the idea was wrong. It was a great idea. But after the arena caps IMHO I'm not so sure it would last.
I dunno how you're tying the two together. They're separate things entirely. One is an arena that appeals to the more realistic, historical crowd, who buy into e.g. Il2's coop stuff with icons turned off, attrition warfare, the full blown wartime pilot experience. The other arena is an unrestricted air combat setup where the the only premise is duking it out with the historical machines. Different target audiences entirely and independent of the MA pop cap dilemma.
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Herd mentality dictates that you are going to have more fun in the populated arena. You are also pushing that same idea when you say open up the cap. The problem is HTC has the numbers to back them up when they say that one big arena IS NOT MORE FUN. YOU may think its more fun, but the MAJORITY don't and HTC numbers prove that due to the lack of growth they had. Once they made the split they began to grow again.
So the "public" THINKS they know what they want, but when they get it it kills the game. When HTC gives them what he KNOWS they need, the game grows. Seems pretty easy to follow to me.
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Which is exactly my point. BTW, most folks I see coming into Orange were merely waiting for a slot to open and left Blue when it did.
Don't get me wrong a few stay and do enjoy it. But if that was the case, why not "chose it" and go fly there for the night? That does not happen much.
In the meantime, how long before someone, who wants to fly Orange, gets tired of the hassle and exits the game? I'd sure hate to see that happen. I wonder if an exit poll might help the Company. Something like;
We are sorry to see you leave. We enjoyed your company in our game and hoped it was everything you thought it would be.
As such we ask you answer a simple exit questionaire that might help us help others to enjoy the game. All answers are strictly confidential.
Please check the box which best fits;
( ) RL is getting in the way.
( ) A job change forces me to stop for a while
( ) I just couldn't come to grips with how to dogfight
( ) I tried but couldn't get into the arenas where I wanted to fly
( ) Too much grief on 200
( ) My dad stopped my allowance
( ) I can't afford the equipment to fly
( ) My two weeks was up
( ) No one would help me
( ) Arenas were one big trash talking, slum
( ) Answer in your own words here:
blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah
blah blah
Thanks again for being with AH2. We wish you well and hope we might see you again.
Sometimes people put up their reasons why on the forum boards. They usually get slammed by the typical forum denizens.
The real question is how do you know what'd really broke if all you have to go by is "we tried this and numbers went down, so we're trying this" If it brought more people to AH2 was it the commercials? Word of mouth? Someone at work? In the TA we find all kinds of reasons. It's never been asked of us to do so but wee could ask the simple question and report it. Something like
"Welcome to AH2. You're gonna find it's a fun game so let's get started". BTW, what made you come over to AH2?"
"Well, I flew a sim 8 years ago and I just found this one. I thought Id give it a try?"
reply, "Really how'd ya find us?" blah blah blah. I'm sure you get my drift on this.
Heck, they get a 2 week free trial, all it should cost is "Hi,how'd you hear about us?" on sign up or do we do that now? I haven't signed up in years.....
My thought is people come and people go. Thank em for their participation. It would sure make it easier to tailor the game to the needs and wants of people. You can always learn something. Even from someone who's on their way out.
I was kinda hoping this kind of discussion was possible. New idea's to be thought of and discarded as required.
CM#1
I think that you are making an assumption that HTC does not do exit polls/emails. We don't know if they check each account that is canceled, see that they canceled within a month or so after their 2 week free trial was up and sent them an email asking "WHY" ... I am assuming that they do something along these lines ... I know I would.
For some reason, and probably not with malice, you keep insinuating that HTC made this "split" decision without doing their homework. I have seen just about every post, from day 1, about this "split" and have seen every response by HT and Pyro, and I am completely comfortable that they did do their homework before making such a decision.
You have been around long enough to know that HT does not make decisions on a whim ... In the 7 years I have been here, each and every decision that I have seen them make is very carefully thought out before it is implemented ... including this one.
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Wow, take a year and a half off and the same argument is still underway. And some say things never stay the same around here too :lol
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Die Thread Die
Sorry just had too.....
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Not once did I post in this thread and after 28 pages I still have no desire to do so .........holy hell i'm confused. nevermind :uhoh
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Go here for a :x :confused: :aok thread that was born from these caps issues.
Miss Teen South Carolina made a new map here http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,266783.0.html
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Ok please lock it up skuzzy!
999000 <S>
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NO WAY... This is almost in the top 10 postcount!!!
Ok please lock it up skuzzy!
999000 <S>
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This has been around wayyy to long....
(http://www.clubavalanche.com/forums/uploads/post-27-1066534370.jpg)
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This has been around wayyy to long....
(http://www.clubavalanche.com/forums/uploads/post-27-1066534370.jpg)
:rofl
:aok
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Basically im getting from this is that theres an arena cap because HiTech believes that players have the most fun between 1-500 players
But HiTech i am more than willing to buy this conclusion (it does make sense), however where did you recieve this data to bring you to that conclusion?
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Basically im getting from this is that theres an arena cap because HiTech believes that players have the most fun between 1-500 players
But HiTech i am more than willing to buy this conclusion (it does make sense), however where did you recieve this data to bring you to that conclusion? and TT does not mean anything, its an event and alot of people dont like events (time or because they like to fight alone)
He's using the information he gathers for his business. I'm sure its more complicated than this, but basically more people where canceling their account AFTER the 500 population number became a more nightly occurrence. TT (Titanic Tuesday) was put in to remind :D people why they don't like one big arena.
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He's using the information he gathers for his business. I'm sure its more complicated than this, but basically more people where canceling their account AFTER the 500 population number became a more nightly occurrence. TT (Titanic Tuesday) was put in to remind :D people why they don't like one big arena.
what about FSO?
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I'm confused....
if people don't like being in an arena with "too many people" - I'm assuming LW Orange or better yet "Titanic Tuesday" - why do we need another arena? There's already Blue, and there's EW and MW where someone can see as few other people as as they desire, even fly around for hours without seeing another soul.
Heck, you can do that in LWO, even TT... and at peak hours too... just avoid any part of the map where there's any significant darbar.... up from a remote base where there's little to no action, and have at it!
If 200 is too "angry" for your tastes in LWO when a lot of people are there..... TURN IT OFF.
Why is that so hard? Why are people even arguing over this? It's pretty dumb, IMHO. :rolleyes:
:shrug:
FWIW, I love TT....
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what about FSO?
FSO is an organized event. There is nothing "organized" about the main arenas. Some of the scenarios have huge numbers too, but its all very structured with objectives assigned and such. The mains are more of a free for all with everything available.
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I'm confused....
if people don't like being in an arena with "too many people" - I'm assuming LW Orange or better yet "Titanic Tuesday" - why do we need another arena? There's already Blue, and there's EW and MW where someone can see as few other people as as they desire, even fly around for hours without seeing another soul.
Heck, you can do that in LWO, even TT... and at peak hours too... just avoid any part of the map where there's any significant darbar.... up from a remote base where there's little to no action, and have at it!
If 200 is too "angry" for your tastes in LWO when a lot of people are there..... TURN IT OFF.
Why is that so hard? Why are people even arguing over this? It's pretty dumb, IMHO. :rolleyes:
:shrug:
FWIW, I love TT....
I think your a bit confused.
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I think this thread has been discussed enough. Hitech has made his points, and if someone thinks they can do it better, by all means, do it. You can call your new game "Squeaker's Paradise"
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I'm confused....
if people don't like being in an arena with "too many people" - I'm assuming LW Orange or better yet "Titanic Tuesday" - why do we need another arena? There's already Blue, and there's EW and MW where someone can see as few other people as as they desire, even fly around for hours without seeing another soul.
Heck, you can do that in LWO, even TT... and at peak hours too... just avoid any part of the map where there's any significant darbar.... up from a remote base where there's little to no action, and have at it!
If 200 is too "angry" for your tastes in LWO when a lot of people are there..... TURN IT OFF.
Why is that so hard? Why are people even arguing over this? It's pretty dumb, IMHO. :rolleyes:
:shrug:
FWIW, I love TT....
More than a bit confused.
I believe it's not so much a matter that people don't "like" the arena when over 500 as much as people get frustrated when the numbers are over 500.
You have to compromise between lots of action and a situation where you either can't get in the air because there are too many enemy in one place, can't kill anything because there are too many friendlies in one place, or just too much going on at the same time. Sensory overload.
It would seem they have figured 500 as being around the breaking point.
wrongway
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More than a bit confused.
I believe it's not so much a matter that people don't "like" the arena when over 500 as much as people get frustrated when the numbers are over 500.
You have to compromise between lots of action and a situation where you either can't get in the air because there are too many enemy in one place, can't kill anything because there are too many friendlies in one place, or just too much going on at the same time. Sensory overload.
It would seem they have figured 500 as being around the breaking point.
wrongway
OK, I see, but that still doesn't address my point:
Even with over 500 people logged in on TT, there are still plenty of fights where there are only a few cons and a few friendlies... just go to a different base or sector that doesn't have a HUGE darbar....
Why is a 3rd LW arena needed when each person can already choose between not only four existing arenas, but dozens of bases within each arena that might provide a more "satisfying experience" for the guy who doesn't want to be in a crowd?
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make both arenas 100 cap, 24/7, increase from there.. then nobody would favor one or the other.. (or would they.... )
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Honey! I'm HOME!!! errr. back...sorry RL got in the way for a bit there.
Ref Moot. He merely wants to argue cause he think it makes everyone think he' s really smart. :x so no reply is required.
Ref Fugitve. He merely wants a small arena. something like him agasint 1 other noob. :x
Ref HiTech:
Not that I would ever say BS to your stats and now we will never know the real answer to the question, "how many player in one arena is too many".
Reason is multi fold.
1st and foremost is I stand vindicated ref: my earlier statements:
"In fact, I think the root cause of the limits is the customers computers ability to keep up with all the eye candy. I remember back when I got an apple computer that actually let me get to FR17. All of a sudden the planes started actually flying around in the sky somewhat smoothly. Fool and I used to have lunch and our topic of discussion was always, "if you want to stay up with all the enhancements in the flight sim, dogfighting games you need to upgrade your computer from time to time". Back then 17FR wasn't top of the line. In fact, for the past 12-14 years or so I made a commitment to stay one step below top of the line. Every couple of years or so I'd have some bucks put away and when I went out West I'd pick up everything I'd need and build a new computer. One step below top dog was normally about a $150-250 upgrade. I'd always try and move my old computer out to someone else in the game who could use an upgrade from their existing computer. If I'm wrong about customer computers being up to speed for huge arena's then I stand corrected."
All that is required is to look at other Gen Disc threads ref the game update. After flying these games for 15 years or more I kinda thought although I might be a moron I do know what I needed to do to keep up with the games. I spoke from personal experience not just a desire for a big arena.
For most of us the expense is budgeted ($10-30 a month stashed away for ungrades). For others it's a learning experience. If you smoke, you spend a lot more in a few days than the money you can be putting away. If you play golf, miss one weekend (rain check) a month and put that money into a stash for an upgrade.
Now HiTech can see how any fallout and I say "any" effects subscribers but we can no longer use "over 500 players kills subscriptions" as a medium to determine who stays and who goes.
I'd say it becomes a moot point but then I'd be saying moot is smart so I won't. :D
The only thing that has always amazed me is there is no middle ground for some folks.
Well, 2 anyway, and the guy that wants everyone to think hes smart. :x.
CM#1
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moot this, moot that
IOW I'm incapable of a proper counter argument.
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make both arenas 100 cap, 24/7, increase from there.. then nobody would favor one or the other.. (or would they.... )
thats stupid lol both arenas 100/100 no one could play....
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Ref HiTech:
Not that I would ever say BS to your stats and now we will never know the real answer to the question, "how many player in one arena is too many".
The answer has been posted an number of times by the owner, designed, builder of the game. That "magic number" is more than 0 and less than 500. Why you can't understand that really is beyond me. Your stubbornness in not accepting that is really something else. Discussing anything with you is like banging my head against a wall. You way is the ONLY way, even when it comes strait for the owners mouth, he's wrong :rolleyes:
All of your time flying sims don't mean crap if you can read this stuff with an open mind. Blindly sticking to your guns while the ship sinks around you is just plain stupid.
Good luck with those blinders you seem to have had surgically and permanently implanted.
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The answer has been posted an number of times by the owner, designed, builder of the game. That "magic number" is more than 0 and less than 500. Why you can't understand that really is beyond me. Your stubbornness in not accepting that is really something else. Discussing anything with you is like banging my head against a wall. You way is the ONLY way, even when it comes strait for the owners mouth, he's wrong :rolleyes:
All of your time flying sims don't mean crap if you can read this stuff with an open mind. Blindly sticking to your guns while the ship sinks around you is just plain stupid.
Good luck with those blinders you seem to have had surgically and permanently implanted.
See what I mean? MUAHAHAHAHAHA! :x
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IOW
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeet
See what I mean? MUAHAHAHAHAHA! :x
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That's what I thought.
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In fact, I think the root cause of the limits is the customers computers ability to keep up with all the eye candy.
I might be a moron
With out a doubt.
I have point blank told you in no uncertian terms that there absolutly 0 tech I.E. Speed reasons for the limits.
So I can only take your continued posting of my reasons why as call me a liar.
So either Apologize NOW or no longer be part of this BBS or the game.
HiTech
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WOW demanding an apology or else. Somebody got oh HT bad side. This might put me there to.
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Hes making a list, checking it twice. Gonna find out whos naughty or nice. :uhoh
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This is the second post I have seen of Hitech some what threating to get rid of some players. I wonder what is up with him. Got me thinking about leaving the game. I know that isn't a big deal b/c there are many other players that will stay and pay Hitech bills. Just dont' think it is right for him to threaten ppl that their account will pretty much be cancelled just b/c he doesn't like their opinions. That is kinda like the kid who says play the game how I want or I am gonna take my ball and go home lol.
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Word.
Oh, and somebody lock this one please. Nothing good gonna come from it.
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as grandma always used to say.........no good can come of this
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thats stupid lol both arenas 100/100 no one could play....
the cap would work as it does.
all im suggesting is reducing the cap on orange off-hours.
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This is the second post I have seen of Hitech some what threating to get rid of some players. I wonder what is up with him. Got me thinking about leaving the game. I know that isn't a big deal b/c there are many other players that will stay and pay Hitech bills. Just dont' think it is right for him to threaten ppl that their account will pretty much be cancelled just b/c he doesn't like their opinions. That is kinda like the kid who says play the game how I want or I am gonna take my ball and go home lol.
This has absolutly nothing to do with an opions, it has everything to do with statements of facts. There is a drastic difference between the 2.
When I state why we cap arenas, the WHY we made the CHOICE is a fact, you may disagree with with the conclusion, but you do not get to try tell people that we really cap the arenas for a different reason then we say.
So if you really believe you may come to my place of buisness and tell my customers on my bbs that I am liaing and expect no reaction from me, then you and I have a completly different view on life.
HiTech
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On that note, let's adjourn for a small recess.
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6351/basketballtaunt2a.gif) (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/basketballtaunt2a.gif/)
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On that note, let's adjourn for a small recess.
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6351/basketballtaunt2a.gif) (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/basketballtaunt2a.gif/)
:rofl
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This has absolutly nothing to do with an opions, it has everything to do with statements of facts. There is a drastic difference between the 2.
When I state why we cap arenas, the WHY we made the CHOICE is a fact, you may disagree with with the conclusion, but you do not get to try tell people that we really cap the arenas for a different reason then we say.
So if you really believe you may come to my place of buisness and tell my customers on my bbs that I am liaing and expect no reaction from me, then you and I have a completly different view on life.
HiTech
The cap is what it is. Probably not the best algorythm so, someone else come up with one better or give up on the discussion. It's annoying when you see 300 people online and a 200 cap, all you can do is wait.
Other games have many servers where people ONLY play, and thus - they have to wait to get in. sucks, I know but ah2 is one game that I waited the least to get in.
On another point _ if HiTech would upgrade his servers and connection, I'd be much happier with him :)
Bottom line - the cap is there to dance the fine line of balancing the players out so as not to have serious server lag on one server and a bunch of guys flying around without any battle on another.
You can't please all of the people all of the time - don't take it personal HiTech.
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On another point _ if HiTech would upgrade his servers and connection, I'd be much happier with him :)
Bottom line - the cap is there to dance the fine line of balancing the players out so as not to have serious server lag on one server and a bunch of guys flying around without any battle on another.
So HiTech just lays into a guy for saying that the arena cap is server related, tells them they are 100% wrong and that is NOT the reason for the caps, threatens to kick them off the BBS for saying it again and you post this gem?
(Sigh)
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This is the second post I have seen of Hitech some what threating to get rid of some players. I wonder what is up with him. Got me thinking about leaving the game. I know that isn't a big deal b/c there are many other players that will stay and pay Hitech bills. Just dont' think it is right for him to threaten ppl that their account will pretty much be cancelled just b/c he doesn't like their opinions. That is kinda like the kid who says play the game how I want or I am gonna take my ball and go home lol.
Lets see here,
HiTech owns this BBS and game, lets say you shop at a grocery store, you spend your weekly 200$ on groceries and then one day all of a sudden you see the manager get a little upset with an angry customer and he tells the customer to get lost, you go up to him and tell him that he is just a big bully and everyone should have a voice without being kicked. Well you see its his store and he can do anything he damn well pleases to make sure his store is a friendly environment to all and if that means getting rid of a few bad eggs then so be it, and wether or not you shop there, at the end of the week your 200$ is a drop in the bucket compared to the 500,000$ brought in daily.
Better yet, you walk into someones house and you start yelling and screaming and telling them how bad of parents they are for punishing their kids, and you expect them not to throw you out of their house? key word THEIR...HiTech owns this buisness and you telling him how to treat his customers is a bad, bad, idea.
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Lets see here,
HiTech owns this BBS and game, lets say you shop at a grocery store, you spend your weekly 200$ on groceries and then one day all of a sudden you see the manager get a little upset with an angry customer and he tells the customer to get lost, you go up to him and tell him that he is just a big bully and everyone should have a voice without being kicked. Well you see its his store and he can do anything he damn well pleases to make sure his store is a friendly environment to all and if that means getting rid of a few bad eggs then so be it, and wether or not you shop there, at the end of the week your 200$ is a drop in the bucket compared to the 500,000$ brought in daily.
Better yet, you walk into someones house and you start yelling and screaming and telling them how bad of parents they are for punishing their kids, and you expect them not to throw you out of their house? key word THEIR...HiTech owns this buisness and you telling him how to treat his customers is a bad, bad, idea.
Ok lets see if the guy is just a manager then it is not his store it is the coperation's store. As for the whole parent thing that is not even compareable with this. It is their private property they can do what they want. In fact I would love if more parents discipline their lil brat kids, so that I wouldn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. These boards are public which means ppl can express their opinions if they want. Why is me expressing my opinion about what is going on a bad idea. Because he can get rid of me oh well I know it won't hurt his bank account any. I will express my opinions as many others do on these boards, if hitech thinks otherwise on the matter let him do what he thinks needs to be done.
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Ok lets see if the guy is just a manager then it is not his store it is the coperation's store. As for the whole parent thing that is not even compareable with this. It is their private property they can do what they want. In fact I would love if more parents discipline their lil brat kids, so that I wouldn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. These boards are public which means ppl can express their opinions if they want. Why is me expressing my opinion about what is going on a bad idea. Because he can get rid of me oh well I know it won't hurt his bank account any. I will express my opinions as many others do on these boards, if hitech thinks otherwise on the matter let him do what he thinks needs to be done.
Whatever gave you the impression that this game or forum is public? Who do you think pays for it? Your taxes? The government runs this bbs?
Are you even aware of the difference between "public" and "private"?
Allow me to clear it up. HiTech corp. owns this game, as they own this forum. It is theirs. They own it much like you own a house and as such this forum and game are PRIVATELY owned.
There is no such thing as free speech on a private forum (such as this one) or a game (such as this one) and we are all here only because HiTech allows us to post here and pay him to play his privately owned game.
This IS HiTechs "house" for all intents and purposes. The analogy of talking smack to someone in their own house is exactly what is going on here. Dales reaction to being called a liar is to be expected. He is a HECK of a lot more tolerant that I would be were the roles reversed.
HiTechs house.
HiTechs rules.
We are merely guests.
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WMLute, Dale"s house reminds me alot of my house.......people saying all kinds of stupid stuff.......I call them family.
999000 <S>
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LCCajun how do you refute this one?
So if you really believe you may come to my place of buisness and tell my customers on my bbs that I am liaing and expect no reaction from me, then you and I have a completly different view on life.
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Oh dear Lord...
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Ok lets see if the guy is just a manager then it is not his store it is the coperation's store. As for the whole parent thing that is not even compareable with this. It is their private property they can do what they want. In fact I would love if more parents discipline their lil brat kids, so that I wouldn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. These boards are public which means ppl can express their opinions if they want. Why is me expressing my opinion about what is going on a bad idea. Because he can get rid of me oh well I know it won't hurt his bank account any. I will express my opinions as many others do on these boards, if hitech thinks otherwise on the matter let him do what he thinks needs to be done.
By both Rens comments, and now these by Sincraft...
On another point _ if HiTech would upgrade his servers and connection, I'd be much happier with him :)
These people are trying to spread lies that could be detrimental to HTC business. Yes I believe he has the right to kick them both out of the game.
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Actually, what HT does is entertain their assertions to demonstrate how they're wrong, tell them they're wrong, ask them to recant, and when they still insist on intoxicating the rest of the customers with lies, tell them they've got one last chance to admit they're wrong before they get ejected. Seems pretty comprehensive to me.
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Bottom line - the cap is there to dance the fine line of balancing the players out so as not to have serious server lag on one server and a bunch of guys flying around without any battle on another.
Wow... just... wow. I'm amazed that people who appear completely clueless about most aspects of the game will insist on arguing with the developers about technical aspects of the servers.
Well, the forums wouldn't suffer in the least with some of you gone. Here's hoping for change...
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Simple not refutable facts.
1. Before arena split AH was not longer growing.
2. After arena split AH started growing fast than it ever had.
Now there really is only 1 reason for this, more people are having fun, and thus subscribe.
HiTech
First and foremost I greatly appreciate the time,money,and effort you and your staff have expended just to keep us folks interested and entertained! I must ask that was it the arena split or the increase in advertising that actually caused the game to grow? This is information that only you and your staff would be able to know with any amount of certainty. I don't wish for you to get me wrong as I like the multiple arenas and actually can find more entertainment in the lower populated arenas at times than the highly populated arenas. I do feel the sting of the caps on the arenas at times but I try to work around it. I think that the majority of us here realize that if the game doesn't grow, the game itself will be in deep crap. I would just suggest that you would be more forthcoming in informing the population of game decisions and how it is impacted from a business perspective. I hope that the majority would feel better about changes that impact their favorite form of online entertainment if they were more informed about how these changes can help the game/company prosper.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Ok lets see if the guy is just a manager then it is not his store it is the coperation's store. As for the whole parent thing that is not even compareable with this. It is their private property they can do what they want. In fact I would love if more parents discipline their lil brat kids, so that I wouldn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. These boards are public which means ppl can express their opinions if they want. Why is me expressing my opinion about what is going on a bad idea. Because he can get rid of me oh well I know it won't hurt his bank account any. I will express my opinions as many others do on these boards, if hitech thinks otherwise on the matter let him do what he thinks needs to be done.
That was CLEARLY not an opinion-it was a false assumption, to which HT addressed many times, undermining HT's honesty.
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First and foremost I greatly appreciate the time,money,and effort you and your staff have expended just to keep us folks interested and entertained! I must ask that was it the arena split or the increase in advertising that actually caused the game to grow? This is information that only you and your staff would be able to know with any amount of certainty. I don't wish for you to get me wrong as I like the multiple arenas and actually can find more entertainment in the lower populated arenas at times than the highly populated arenas. I do feel the sting of the caps on the arenas at times but I try to work around it. I think that the majority of us here realize that if the game doesn't grow, the game itself will be in deep crap. I would just suggest that you would be more forthcoming in informing the population of game decisions and how it is impacted from a business perspective. I hope that the majority would feel better about changes that impact their favorite form of online entertainment if they were more informed about how these changes can help the game/company prosper.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
I think that is a pretty unreasonable request. "How" and "why" HT runs his business is HIS business. Much like buying a car, you are buying a product from HTC. Would you expect Ford Motor Company to give you information of the "hows" and "whys" they do anything with their cars?
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I think that is a pretty unreasonable request. "How" and "why" HT runs his business is HIS business. Much like buying a car, you are buying a product from HTC. Would you expect Ford Motor Company to give you information of the "hows" and "whys" they do anything with their cars?
I agree.
HiTech keeps us in the light on a lot of things that we probably don't have the right to know. The fact that he posts regularly within the community really shows he does care about our opinions (even though we are wrong 99% of the time). How's that saying go? "Give them an inch, they want to take a mile".
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They did explain their reasoning behind the changes, and it would be silly to assume they do anything to hurt their business- you don't make drastic changes except to improve things. The fact that people refuse to accept what they say, does not mean that HT and Pyro haven't been fairly open about the whole thing. Remember the numerous threads on the topic that they started?
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First and foremost I greatly appreciate the time,money,and effort you and your staff have expended just to keep us folks interested and entertained! I must ask that was it the arena split or the increase in advertising that actually caused the game to grow? This is information that only you and your staff would be able to know with any amount of certainty. I don't wish for you to get me wrong as I like the multiple arenas and actually can find more entertainment in the lower populated arenas at times than the highly populated arenas. I do feel the sting of the caps on the arenas at times but I try to work around it. I think that the majority of us here realize that if the game doesn't grow, the game itself will be in deep crap. I would just suggest that you would be more forthcoming in informing the population of game decisions and how it is impacted from a business perspective. I hope that the majority would feel better about changes that impact their favorite form of online entertainment if they were more informed about how these changes can help the game/company prosper.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
From what I've read in this topic, HiTech said the numbers were decreasing before the arena split, not the arena was split because of increasing numbers.
You are looking at it from the wrong angle or just confused.
wrongway
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I hope that the majority would feel better about changes that impact their favorite form of online entertainment if they were more informed about how these changes can help the game/company prosper.
I would have thought so to, but on this issue we informed everyone as we did the split, and many many times after. But we are not really speaking about should we inform people, and in some ways you are setting up a straw man argument.
There have been times when we have let the community choose and disused changes (See country balancing & ENY issues where it was discussed prior and adjusted per what the community asked) it made no difference in complaints.
There have been times when we have implemented systems and then explained at the same time why we made the change. Look back to the original post when we did split arenas, we made a long post of why the change was made. The reasons have not changed at all since that time, and the out come of the change has shown that the change was needed.
So doc, what would you do when you DIRECTLY inform a person of the reasons for a change, he claims you did the change for a different reasons, and then you DIRECTLY inform THAT SAME PERSON again that what he claims is not an issue, and he one more time claims that you are not telling the real reason you made a change and that what he states (i.e. tech issues) is the real reason for the change?
HiTech
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Hitech I have an explaination...lead paint.
999000 <S>
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Hitech I have an explaination...lead paint.
999000 <S>
lol lead paint :D
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I would have thought so to, but on this issue we informed everyone as we did the split, and many many times after. But we are not really speaking about should we inform people, and in some ways you are setting up a straw man argument.
There have been times when we have let the community choose and disused changes (See country balancing & ENY issues where it was discussed prior and adjusted per what the community asked) it made no difference in complaints.
There have been times when we have implemented systems and then explained at the same time why we made the change. Look back to the original post when we did split arenas, we made a long post of why the change was made. The reasons have not changed at all since that time, and the out come of the change has shown that the change was needed.
So doc, what would you do when you DIRECTLY inform a person of the reasons for a change, he claims you did the change for a different reasons, and then you DIRECTLY inform THAT SAME PERSON again that what he claims is not an issue, and he one more time claims that you are not telling the real reason you made a change and that what he states (i.e. tech issues) is the real reason for the change?
HiTech
I see your point. Hmmm... what would I do when I directly informed a person of the reason and he acts like an idiot? Unfortunately, you can't take him up in your ride and drop him off at about 15K without a chute but it's a great idea. heheheh
Thanks for your candid responses to my inquiry. I understand your position more clearly and while I still vitch from time to time about the CAPS, I also have to admit that I vitch about having to leave to go to work.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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I think that is a pretty unreasonable request. "How" and "why" HT runs his business is HIS business. Much like buying a car, you are buying a product from HTC. Would you expect Ford Motor Company to give you information of the "hows" and "whys" they do anything with their cars?
Ya know Fugitive, I think you think everything posted anymore is just downright unreasonable. Hitech made a statement and I inquired if it could have been the advertising and not the arena split that saw the game begin to lift out of stagnation. I then made a recommendation about information sharing and did NOT request a detailed report of his business decisions. I simply don't understand why you are that aggressive about each and every posting lately. I'm not coming in here and looking for a peeing contest and I didn't enter this thread to complain or whine about anything. Heck, I stated that I like the multiple arenas and I can have fun and relieve stress from my job and it's cheaper than a case of beer in Indianapolis. I'm really hoping that you just misunderstood the meaning of my post but in retrospect, I could have expressed it better but it was made after a long hard 14 hour shift. I've been around for a while but I don't respond to post very often and I really have a very limited amount of time to reading the BBS and I try and spend it in the game itself.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Are you serious 31 pages of this jargin!!! After the 4th page the origional topic is out the window :rofl
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Yes they do..... Would you keep your liberal's on your side of the river and out of Idaho. :lol
CAVALRY
(http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-med-lousy.jpg)
Those conservatives in Idaho don't spell or punctuate very well, do they? hehe But, they love to be heard.
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So doc, what would you do ?
HiTech
Let India handle your customer service calls? :D
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Let India handle your customer service calls? :D
after about 5 days they would nuke Pakistan out of sheer frustration.
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With out a doubt.
I have point blank told you in no uncertian terms that there absolutly 0 tech I.E. Speed reasons for the limits.
So I can only take your continued posting of my reasons why as call me a liar.
So either Apologize NOW or no longer be part of this BBS or the game.
HiTech
I never called you a liar, implied or otherwise.
You read my posts and always thought "argument for 1 arena". Auto reply...NO, NEVER, NO. Pity it wasn't an open forum for thought.
Ren
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Time to cull the herd (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/Good_night.gif)
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:O
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What was it Moggy said back in the old Airwarrior days? They could get everyone laid, and someone would still complain.
One of the joys of working with delinquent kids is they all think they can run a better program then those of us who have been doing it for 20+ years. Guess what. You are on my turf, the rules and expectations are what they are and they aren't going to change. There's the door.
Obviously there's a consequence good or bad for people's actions.
I'm surprise Hitech and company even take the time to respond.
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DamnedRen ...persona non grata.....
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What was it Moggy said back in the old Airwarrior days? They could get everyone laid, and someone would still complain.
I don't know, that would be a good start, you wouldn't see me complain. :devil
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What was it Moggy said back in the old Airwarrior days? They could get everyone laid, and someone would still complain.
What ya think I've been saving all those perk points for :x
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(http://www.blackfive.net/main/images/taps.jpg)(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/avapub/avatar_5575.gif)(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ggJx4v3LlCCbCM:http://www.masters-of-photography.com/images/screen/alvarez_bravo/alvarez_bravo_1.jpg)
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I wouldn't talk too much, Tool- if HT saw some of the crap you spewed about him in the MAs, you'd probably be joining Ren.
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Hubs,,,That's just.......really twisted dude. Why would you say something like that? Your a very bad man. (http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_evil.gif)
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LOL.
I swear! I love this place!!! That's why - year after year - I keep coming back. It's not just the game. It's the fact that we are collectively the most dysfunctional family on the planet. It's even funny when big daddy comes out of his den with his belt in hand -- ready to whip the first little watermelon that (probably) had it comin'. :x
Don't worry...Ren will be back.
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This thread has run its course.