i think its gonna haunt him all the way. His chances of winning have just gone down the drain. He might win the Dem race but thats about it.
If he shows' that he's ready to clean house, to change and learn, he might have dramatically boosted them. As a matter of fact, I talked to a guy on the street who told me that he was switching from McCain(!) to Obama, because he seems' more upright and sincere. I don't know anything about the dude's demographic, but he was certainly younger than I am.(34)
I'm personally glad it blew up, and I'm glad he responded how he did. He needs to grow the hell up and really really learn that speech that incites and perpetuates racial hatred is simply not acceptable. The fact that he bought into it at least enough to keep going back to that church and keep listening to that pastor is disturbing, but he is a leader of this country and I won't hold a learning experience against him.
Hopefully he and his followers who have responded to and encouraged that sort of racially inflammatory sermon will grow up and quit perpetuating racially divisive philosophy and speech.
I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separated in US. ;)
Did you talk to that guy before or after all this came out?
sort of like politics and common sense in europe?
I still fail to see why his pastor is a issue.. last time I heard the pastor, preacher or who ever didn't sit in the white house. George Bush goes to a church that thinks the Anti Christ is gonna blow up the world.. Yet that was never all over the news.The way I feel about it is that usually something like this shouldn't matter, but Obama was using this guy kinda as a character reference, like having him on his website, he also has him on one of his comities. This pastor was saying some really racist things, like the government created AIDS to kill the black man. He also said that America got what was coming to it on 9/11 for using state sponsored terrorism against Africans.
It is swiftboating.
Swiftboating is the act of cherry picking "facts" in the form of half truths and spin in order to discredit your opponent. Implying that Hillary has Sean Hannity on her payroll is just laughable.
Sean is a latecomer to this story which was broken too soon imo. He could hardly ignore it once other outlets were covering it. I'm betting Hillary had much to do with this "story" getting mainstream attention.
Swiftboating is the act of cherry picking "facts" in the form of half truths and spin in order to discredit your opponent. Implying that Hillary has Sean Hannity on her payroll is just laughable.
I still fail to see why his pastor is a issue.. last time I heard the pastor, preacher or who ever didn't sit in the white house. George Bush goes to a church that thinks the Anti Christ is gonna blow up the world.. Yet that was never all over the news.
Ya know, you're right. I sure hope McCain has some better explanations about why he was snuggling up next to Hagee and letting that conservative talk show host speak for his campaign. He sure welcomed those comments as did the crowds at his campaign stops. They were all cheering. How do we believe those sentiments aren't unusual for McCain?
The thing I can't believe about all this is that the church and it's congregation seem to think that just because the media is talking about and showing the very racist & unpatriotic statements their pastor has made that the media is somehow attacking all black churches, like the title of the sermon this Sunday at the church the pastor is from was titled "Why the Black Church Won't Shut Up", how is the media talking about the racist and un-American statements this pastor made an attack on black churches?
Personally I think this country would be better off, if religion stayed out of politics and the politicians kept their religious beliefs private and out of the govt office just like the constitution says.
It was more than one sermon. He was wearing different clothes inseveral of them.
It was more than one sermon. He was wearing different clothes inseveral of them.I don't think anyone hear was saying it was only one sermon.
On the other hand, do you honestly believe that the statements and sentiments of the reverend Wright are manufactured out of whole cloth? Or are you willing to accept the fact that there still may be a little bit of righteous anger in the black community?
No one is defending what the reverend said. The "swift boating" comes from the constant barrage of pseudo news about Obama's pastor as if Obama himself said those things. Since when have we as a Country held people accountable for the actions of acquaintances? I was a Catholic for many years. That certainly doesn't make me a pedophile.
Obama has denounced the statements made by his pastor. Enough said.
On the other hand, do you honestly believe that the statements and sentiments of the reverend Wright are manufactured out of whole cloth? Or are you willing to accept the fact that there still may be a little bit of righteous anger in the black community?
And if by some weird chance he loses to McCain it will prove that Amreeka is racist, not that people didn't want the most liberal senator in Congress to move on to the oval office. :lol
He needs to grow the hell up and really really learn that speech that incites and perpetuates racial hatred is simply not acceptable.
i think its gonna haunt him all the way. His chances of winning have just gone down the drain. He might win the Dem race but thats about it.
Tis so.
See an old thread about general election. I stand by my prognostication.
McCain is going to tbe the next US President. You see that already dont you?
Speaking faith into reality ..... neoconpub style? Whatever it takes to control the hyperventilation. :D
Speaking faith into reality ..... neoconpub style? Whatever it takes to control the hyperventilation. :DWell when you put faith style & reality into the same thought your bound to come across nonconput and as a result hyperventilate.
Can someone translate that please? You must be a West Coaster.
See I post post nonsense.
I don't think this episode is going to matter much in the long run. Heck, just
look at the diehards here like Arlo, MT and Crockett. Obama could be pitchforking
babies on live TV and it wouldn't change their minds.
If this pastor had a history of such remarks, why did it take a public disclosure in the media for obama to distance himself from it.
Well I don't know where your from, but that post made absolutely no sense, I'm thinking English isn't your first language?
Btw "neoconpub style" isn't a word.
I don't think this episode is going to matter much in the long run. Heck, just
look at the diehards here like Arlo, MT and Crockett. Obama could be pitchforking
babies on live TV and it wouldn't change their minds.
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . ."
You know who wrote this?
George Washington
He wrote it in his Proclomation to the People after the after the writing of the First Amendment.
Change my mind about what? Obama NEVER SAID anything that is exciting the crowd in here. In fact he has denounced all of the things that are exciting the crowd in here.
AND I have never been an Obama supporter... ever.
All that aside, maybe a little perspective is in order. At the risk of having those of you prone to reading mis comprehension I will capitalize..I THINK REV. WRIGHT IS WRONG.
Now in fairness it may be helpful to try and understand where those statements come from. I know understanding this stuff is akin to trying to understand the motivation behind Al Quaida.. God forbid.
Giving AIDS to black people? Why on Earth would a black person jump to the conclusion that the government would deliberately infect them with a disease? That has never happened..... has it? Oh wait, maybe it has. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html)
Now compare the outrage (and news coverage) over the testing of Holocaust victims by the Nazi's to the amount of coverage you've seen on this issue. Maybe the indignation over past treatment is a little more understandable.
Maybe, but I doubt this will sway anyone to anything other than more BS finger pointing at the guy who never said any of those things.
Pretty sure they are both words. One's even in the dictionary. ;)Never heard of neoconpub, tried to find a definition for it but couldn't.
Might want to read his speech, he addresses a lot of the concerns above. I read it, and I view the Wright thing in a different light now. Considering that the current administration took council from folks like Pat Robertson who has gone on record as stating that the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11 because it was morally wicked... yeah, this isn't that big of a deal.
Never heard of neoconpub, tried to find a definition for it but couldn't.
Go ahead and read the speech in full, then comment again:
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashos.htm
It's pretty much a requirement to continue discussing this issue unless y'all are making no bones that you have no actual interest in his views on this issue and just want to take pot shots. If the latter is true, then of course there's no reason to read the speech. I'm not a supporter, but I'm tired of single-sided bombastic sermons, which is what this thread is basically. It ain't a conversation, that seems evident.
The only one playing the race card is his church.
The only one playing the race card is his church, a Black Supremacist Church.
P.S. I read the membership requirements before they changed them for Obama.
I browsed the churches website the day Obama first mentioned it. I knew about it way before Hannity ever mentioned it.
How can you support a church that spews out so much hatred for another race?
You must be one of those people who believes only White People can be racist. I looked at those links and the first one helps prove my point.
P.S. You're the one who wishes to remain ignorant on this subject, not me.
P.P.S If I saw a church preaching about White America like his church preaches about Black America, I'd call them racist too.
I made a valid point but you're just too blind to see. I bet you support the Blank Panthers too.
I'm not wasting anymore of my time on an Extreme Leftest like you. If you wish to leave your head in the sand, that's your prerogative.
Arlo's likely to be typical of some of the far left shills. Calling people racist for noticing Obama's preacher for 20 years is a bigot. Sorry Arlo, that dog won't hunt.
Speaking of which ... you're ready to stand in for Xargie on my challenge, I take? Let's see `ol blue tree the coon, so to speak. :lol :aok
I didn't see your "challenge" but there's no point in trying to prove anything to you.
Thought so.
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
As well you hould have. It's your own fault no one takes you seriously. If you were actually interested in the exchange of ideas it might be different. Your nonsensical flitting about reminds me of a gnat buzzing around my ear.
There is just a small part of the speech. It would be pretty disingenuous, or should I say silly, to base your condemnation of a man not only on what his Pastor said, but on sound bites of what his Pastor said.
/\
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fast becoming irrelevant
Still didn't rise to the challenge. Dive, JBA, dive. Afterall I'm so "irrelavant" you can't let go. :D
I condemn him for his far left policies. That his pastor is a loud spoken bigot is just convenient.
It is hard not to swat at the pesky buggers.
As well you hould have. It's your own fault no one takes you seriously. If you were actually interested in the exchange of ideas it might be different. Your nonsensical flitting about reminds me of a gnat buzzing around my ear.
Might want to read his speech, he addresses a lot of the concerns above. I read it, and I view the Wright thing in a different light now. Considering that the current administration took council from folks like Pat Robertson who has gone on record as stating that the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11 because it was morally wicked... yeah, this isn't that big of a deal. - Chair
i have thought that for a long time. :rofl :aok
However, I commented to say that I don't buy his explanation of his close association with that church and pastor. I bet that middle America doesn't either.
further, I did not rebut anything, but only meant to clarify. I understand that we disagree - that's fine.
You guys should understand that the ones that won't let Obama off the hook for being a member of a racist church for 20 years aren't likely to vote for him regardless. The focus is "to reveal his unseemly side to those fence sitters who might be inclined to vote for him." Since when have politics been fair?
Pointing out the truth that's already exposed isn't necessarily slinging mud. If some are making false or misleading statements about what's plain for all to see that might be sligning mud but Reverend Wright has slung enough mud that we need only sit back and look.
You vote for whoever you like Arlo. Bill Clinton lead the way to ensure double standards or no standards became acceptable. Perhaps if Obama is elected racism will become acceptable too.
The thing about this whole situation is that Obama has tried to say that he had no idea Rev. Wright had these kinds of feelings or beliefs, which I find hard to believe since he's been a member of his church for over 20 years. Rev. Wright didn't just start having these kinds of beliefs recently, he's had them for a long time, he's been friends with Louis Farrakhan for a long time and we know what he's beliefs are. Obama wasn't just a member of this guys church, he was also friends with the Rev., he spent alot of time with him one on one, and he's gonna try to make us believe that he never knew that Rev. Wright had these thoughts & feelings, I just find that extremely hard to swallow.
Actually what you and others here seem to try to boil this down to is that you fear Obama will hurt white people if elected president because you've found a way to rationalize that he's the racist and not those trying to actually get away with playing the race card against him. I find that a ballsy move but not a particularly compelling one.
Toad on March 15, 2008, 04:19:34 AM
Once again we are asked to suspend our disbelief, discard our common sense and ignore the man behind the curtain.
Is there anyone stupid enough to believe that statement? Of course there is! MILLIONS of them in fact.
We get the government we deserve.
You must be sitting down 'cause I know you'd be flat on your face otherwise with that much spin. I guess what you're saying is that only white people can be racist? It's certainly beeen said before, maybe by Wright's buddy Farrakahn.
Lol, now there's some spin for you.
Obama never heard Wright utter an anti-American or racist remark despite listening to him for 20 years from the pulpit?
Worth repeating:
If anything, I think the fear is that the great hope for change we can believe in is just another lying politician that hangs out with a really beaut of a pastor.
As someone mentioned, can you imagine the uproar if McCain's pastor of 20 years spewed such Wrighttripe about blacks? You have to laugh at politics in this country.
I'm still writing in Paul.
Actually what I said is the effort to portray Obama as a racist is an obvious effort. I see how much effort you're putting into it right here. I also call it a ballsy move since the only real apparent motivation of fearing "Obama the racist" being elected is the fear of what he'll do to white people. :)
You got me there. I am very much afraid of what he will do to white people. Of course not just white people but all colors that will ultimately suffer as a result of his far left ideology.
If racial fear isn't your real motivator you should just concentrate on the final ideology driven sentence and leave it at that because, frankly, the whole "Obama's a racist! Fear the negro candidate!" argument comes off more racist than the dots being vainly connected to accuse Obama of being one. :)
Why should I ignore the fact that he belonged to a racist church for 20 years? Isn't racism bad? Shouldn't it be exposed to the light of day for all to see?
Sources I've found say you exaggerate for political spinnery sake. Ever since I offered rebuttal and challenge nobody's offered up a dime worth of something more convincing than "we think he" "we repeat" "so there!." :aok
At least when I post I try to add something to the discussion. Even if it's in two similar threads.
Too bad no one can say the same for you.
:rofl
I'm not going to sort through your posts to find your challenge. My source is straight from the bigot's mouth and the church's web site. I heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes all I need to know this congregation was led by and practiced racism.
But that's my contention. The argument that Obama's a racist and a danger suddenly becomes one of clarifying and reclarifying (repeating) the same initial suspicians, accusations and correlations without offering anything, in the end, but feelings over what the politically motivated group that's gotten behind this belief feels. If asked to provide the hard copy, word for word, that proves the accusation for mutual assessment over what's really meat and potatoes versus what's just a sprig of parsley that smells like real food ... then suddenly the challenger "isn't worth taking seriously." Sure it's fine we disagree. I never expect to agree with anyone on anything all the time. But my take on what is or isn't worth taking seriously is related directly to how well one can present their argument when pressed for more than they had planned to present in the first place. That's a constant about me that's apparently driven more than one fellow AHer over the edge, at times. Glad to see you more resistant, additional concrete added to your argument or not. Smiley - Arlo
Nah, you're supposed to post something germane to the thread you are posting in.
But not many have any hope that will ever happen on this BBS.
After all, Arlo, you always were too leaky a vessel to put much hope into.
Asking for something more substantial than what's been offered so far actually is germane. Answering my request with anything other than "Sorry, I got nuthin" when you apparent have nothing ... much less whining about how leaky *my* boat is at that point ... is just ironically sad. :)
For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division and conflict and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle — as we did in the O.J. trial — or in the wake of tragedy — as we did in the aftermath of Katrina — or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.
We can do that.
But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.
Amazing speech. Maybe some of you should read it or listen to it before you pass judgement.
The irony is that you apparently have not yet realized how sad and trite your act here has become.
Other than muddying water, what points have you posted Arlo? I'm sure you've posted some, but I have to tell you, I've lost them in what seems to be a forest of personal digs. So if you could please capsulize your point, I might know what heck you are trying to say if its not just muddy the water! Whats your point? Are Wrights comments racist? Is it ok for Obama if they are racist? Is Obama establishing a pattern of making friends with people that say and do stupid things (Ayers, Rezko, Wright) a political liability? He's running on his JUDGEMENT because he has no history! If his judgement seems to be wanting, I think its a pertinent issue.
See, once again nothing to add.
It's your legacy Arlo. In the future, you'll be the standard by which other trolls are judged.
Do you got anything other than your own editorial slant on this? All I'm askin'. If it's too hard just say so. No really ... I didn't start the thread and I don't have the issues you're having. If you can't take someone asking you to make your argument sensible then kneejerking blame on *them* isn't the answer. :D
Once again, it's a shame you can't read.
I've said quite a lot in this thread that is directly on topic. I'll admit to wasting some time and electronic ink responding to your trolling. Pretty much everyone sees you for what you are Arlo. BTW just pointed it out again; you have nothing to add to the threads in which you participate.
I guess the only one not seeing it is you, of course.
Which makes it that much more entertaining. You're the person people laugh at, not with. :)
Quote the amazing parts.
In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.
Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.
Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.
No whine, just an accurate observation. It's certainly not that you don't play fair; you don't play at all. You're not a contributor in any thread, you're a troll in all threads.
It's just past time that those that actually use the board to discuss acknowledge you for the troll you are and deal with you accordingly.
There are a lot of folks here that disagree on various topics; that's a good thing because it makes for lively discussion. The point is they do discuss. MT, RPM and others that I verbally joust with have sharp minds, an ability to organize their thoughts and articulate their positions. They are an enjoyable presence on this BBS and one of the reasons I read this BBS.
You, otoh hand, offer nothing to this community.
Have a nice day!
:aok
In the end.. that is all the democrats have.. that is their version of "hope" and "opportunity" it is blame and envy and racism.
:lol
It's nice that every time you post you validate my opinion of your worth to this BBS.
Another perfect example in a long line of them.
I think it's indicative of your inflated feeling of self-worth that you think I've tried to convince you of anything.
Well the part you quoted is classism plain and simple. Its a typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology. I'm not a Marxist so perhaps thats why I don't see its greatness. The important question is how many Americans are Marxists and will that work for them?
Now I don't want to get in a Bible quoting contest, but you are trying to spin this into me calling Bible teachings, Marxist. What I'm saying is Black Liberation Theology rewrites the Bible with a Marxist/class warfare agenda.
“Hope is making a comeback and, let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change,” she said during a rally in downtown Milwaukee
No, I asked you if that was the portion quoted that you were referring to as Marxist ideology. I'll ask again. Is that the portion quoted that you referred to as "typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology?"
The dimensions involved in your viewpoint as well as the agenda you appear to have before this discussion even began here seem blown out of proportion. But please, answer my question directly as you continue to expound and make logical connections for me. Thank you.
Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.
who has never had any hope for America or Americans
The specific line that MT quoted would be :
"Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many."
This is a the specific line that points to capitalism as the problem that is creating the tensions between the races. This puts up the rich ( and probably white according to most Black Liberation Theologists) cooperate bosses as the Bourgeoisie, and the confused racist working class whites and blacks as Proletariat.
There's nothing new here. Its Marxism with a racial slant. The "real culprits" are the rich white people, the Bourgeoisie.
First, I can't understand why your first response would have been anything other than providing the quote you were referring to since I wasn't able to intuit from your post which one you meant.
Secondly, I still see you blowing it out of proportion. That quote is no more Marxist or racist than it could be rationalized to be "Martian" or "Elven." The middle class has been dealt a blow by the current corporate culture as described in the quote. How dealing with the problem at hand makes something "Marxist" (ie: attacking capitalism ... which it didn't - you just percieve so, for some reason) therefor making it dishonest is, itself, a less than honest method of rebuttal. If this is the tact you're choosing to take then my curiousity is satisfied. Carry on.
I think Laz may be referring to this quote of Michelle's:This B-ocht has never had anything to be proud of in 40+ years. How does that make you vet's feel? Makes me want to puke in my mouth and I'm not a vet.
“Hope is making a comeback and, let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change,” she said during a rally in downtown Milwaukee
This B-ocht has never ...
The more I hear about this racist couple ....
.... supporting Hillbillary? ...
20 years of KKK meetings !!! ...
Hussein Obama's political career will be over after November....
Once he and hillbillary have kick eachothers A's ....
in a radio interview obama called his white grandmother a "typical white person", if a white politician called a black a "typical black person" they would be called a racist and be forced to resign.Found the qoute.
obama should do the "right " thing, drop out of the race and resign from the senate.
Osamabama cant distance himself from this - he sat in front of this guy for 20+ YEARS and never saw a problem... Wright -Obama - Sharpton - Calypso Louie Farrakhan --- collectively, the Klan with a tan.
Basically, all these facts about Obama...yes, facts... lead to one inescapable conclusion.
Found the qoute.
“The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way.” -- Sen. Barack Obama, making the racial stereotype that all white people are guilty of racial stereotyping.
Heard someone say that even Jesse Jackson admitted to when alone on the street at night and hears footsteps feels relief to see it is a white person. Don't know if it's true he said that but if it is it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life.
Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson
Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life
Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.
Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson that he isn't sure is true but if it is he knows, for certain, that Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.
This is not even remotely approaching a sensible argument. Sorry.
Carry on. :salute :D
Arlo, you dispute these widely published, sometimes by Obama himself, facts?Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.
Close friend of Wright for 20 years; Wright as racist as Farrakhan, Obama endorsed by Farrakhan.
Named most liberal Senator by National Journal in 2007 (How they figured the rating: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/methodology.htm)An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.
Close associate of Tony Resko, shady real estate deal, lied about Resko contributions to campaign.First, your source, it's reputation as well as rationalization over the Bush campaign financing/contributions being less racist and more properly done? Thank you.
Product of the Chicago Democratic machineHe's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist? Ummhmmm.
Lack of any real platform other than "change we can believe in"Again, opinion. But if that's qualification for being a racist or dishonest then our current president is both in spades (ptp). ;)
Missed 208 of 1171 votes (18%) since Jan 6, 2005And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?
Past cocaine user (admitted in his book)And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism. Wait ... the current potus is a dishonest racist?
What part of that sounds like anything other than the normal lying politician?What part of that sounds like anything but your rationalization behind your opinion? Use facts to define facts.
What have you seen that makes him seem like anything other than a normal lying politician?I'm still forming my opinion. So far yours isn't affecting mine (and you may even be as convinced that such is an impossible task, especially if you're convinced the opinions you share have always been proven facts leading to an inescapable conclusion). Our opinions may never mirror. Our methods probably won't either. And both of us may feel a genuine gladness on that. I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another ... even if the one being pointed at had something to be ashamed of. I bet you're going to be surprised if this bit of "swiftboating" isn't as successful as the last and it actually ends up hoisted on it's own petard. *ShruG*
buzzzzzz buzzzzzzz
Didn't like that one bit, I take? Feel free to point out the flaws. :)
Now, this part is inconvenient for you but all AKIron said was
"it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life"
He offered an opinion.
He certainly did NOT say
"Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life."
That would be you, putting words into his mouth, creating a strawman argument.
I think Toad did that more than adequately.
I'm still forming my opinion about Obama too btw. My opinion of him has gone from smart but far left socialist to not so smart far left socialist.
No, it wouldn't. It can't even be whined that the restructuring changed the meaning of what he wrote. The word "probably" even left the opinion there. He said that based on a story he heard (which he admitted not even knowing if it was true or not - whether or not Toad could find a source after-the-fact ) that Senator Obama was probably less honest than Rev. Jackson in terms of racial viewpoint his entire life. I've seen better derivation of opinion ... much more fact. Now what are you gonna do with it? It sure seems the stuff your "facts" are made up of. That's just my opinion, btw. :)
I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. Oh well, you probably aren't the "typical white person" so Obama had still better be pretty worried.
Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinionOld saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.
Old saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.
Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.
An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.
Thank you.He's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist?
And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?
And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism.
I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another
obama is a typical black person.
i don't know why you people reply to arlo, i just skip over his posts. Nothing to see there move along.
Swift boating at its best, or worst.
Explain to be what swift boating is and how its dishonest. I don't know that swift boating is dishonest, but I get that implication. How is swift boating wrong? See, I felt it unusual that Sen Kerry had all this film of himself being a hero. Most people who do heroic things don't have a camera handy.
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” –Barack H. Obama, March 14, 2008
“Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.”
Barack H. Obama, March 18, 2007
Maybe someone can explain how publishing Obama's actual quotes is "swiftboating"?
I understand now!
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
Thank you, Illinois. Let me begin by thanking all of the people who have been involved in this effort. From downstate to upstate, city, suburb, from every community throughout the state. Let me say how grateful I am to all of you for the extraordinary privilege of standing here this evening. Let me thank, because I will forget later on, it is a thankless task, let me thank the best political staff that there has been put together in this state. They are wonderful. You know who you are. You guys have been outstanding. I appreciate all of you. Let me thank my pastor Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. of Trinity United church of Christ.
Because, contrary to you fierce belief otherwise, those two statements aren't contrary.
Well, old blue, tree that coon.
Educate me. Show me how those statements aren't contrary without sounding like a lieing lawyer yourself.
Oh, wait... you only offer challenges. You don't accept them. :rofl
Why, Laz... what a racist post! :lol
Well, Arlo, I expected nothing and you offered nothing.
Your attempt to deflect the discussion on to me being all wound up is noted. I will particpate in as many threads as I choose to particpate in and post as much as I like, thanks. (snip the extraneous pizzy pants part)
Arlo, forgive me, but you are a purely defensive verbal swordsman. Parry and thrust. That is all you do.
This is all well and good. It is vaguely amusing to read, but one can't help but notice that Arlo doesn't attempt to persuade others with his own political assertions. We know Arlo only by inference - what he doesn't attack with sarcastic quips.
Anyway, I deplore the drive-by way of expressing one's views on a forum like this. Barbed attacks with a minimum of typing... weave in a little irony or pseudo-irony, and you are done. It doesn't cut it.
Cut what? I'm not on a political crusade on the AHBB. I don't have any mud loaded. I don't have an agenda. I don't have an ulterior motive in my words. That being the case, who made up the rule that those who do are immune from comment or critisism from those who don't, whether up to their expressed "standards" or not?
But ... on a side note ... now that I'm back in the game and have my hands full with my leisure hours now being actively devoted to actually playing the game again, what other time I may feel inclined to actively participate in matters contributing to making my enviroment, my country and my fellow citizen's lives better are better spent elswhere that the AHBB. :salute :D
Don't go away mad....
Public forums like this make it easy to forget we are communicating with individuals rather than entertaining an audience. While I think both may be done here they are often mutually exclusive.
well, alrighty then :) :salute
Well now, wasn't it all about proving he was less of a hero than George or that George was more of one? Don't you think George woulda taken quite a few pics if he'd gone to `Nam instead of serving in the TANG (kinda)? He still had a pic or two but not that many. And he sure didn't miss out on a photo op in a flightsuit or field jacket his first term in office. Mission accomplished. He wasn't there all that much in `Nam though (or really there serving with the TANG that much - missed out on some more photo ops there). But the "swiftboating campaign" sure went after Kerry's actual combat service in `Nam. And yaknow, I served with more than one fellow vet that spent time there and they sure seemed to have lots of pics. You'd have thunk they thought everyday they made it to there was pretty special. :salute :cool:
I don't have an agenda.
He was hanged alright but it was by his own hand. What do you think this new pator of Obama's church is trying to accomplish?
Another red herring?
First he says he wasn't in church when these things were said and then he says he was in church when these things were said.
That's a lie, mate. No spin, simple fact.
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely — just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.He's dealing with this the way any typical politician would--deny..deny...deny...then admit the bare minimum. Is this "Change"?
He's dealing with this the way any typical politician would--deny..deny...deny...then admit the bare minimum. Is this "Change"?
"A Brief For Whitey" http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969
Well, MT, the quotes are posted.
I don't see how anyone can not see that as a lie. I suppose a Harvard trained lawyer might try to make the case that he didn't lie with those two quotes.
I suppose it is on a par with Clinton's "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." Or perhaps the old "I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman" baloney. Ask your wife if a BJ is having sexual relations; she'll clarify it for you.
The more we accept and excuse this sort of dishonesty, the more we get.
You defense of this is a fig leaf, easily seen around.
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” –Barack H. Obama, March 14, 2008
“Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.”
Barack H. Obama, March 18, 2007
And you seem to be enjoying the ssensation of fingers in your ears as you go "lalalalalalala". The quotes are posted. Maybe you should read them again.
I don't know jackal.. mt was sagely nodding his head when klinton was saying "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is." I don't think he has any trouble at all excusing the half negro guy.
lazs
Well of course you do! You're here to look into the mirror and ask "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the cleverest poster of all?" And you love it when your reflected image answers you with "Arlo!"
No one here is above criticism. I think everyone sees this as a place to exchange ideas and have their beliefs challenged. After all, that is how one progresses on a personal level. The expectation is that those that criticize will also state their views. It's how discussion/debate happens. I doubt anyone here thinks these threads will have any effect in the grand scheme of things. The threads are for personal enjoyment and gain and I think most realize that.
You participate in half of the of the BBS. You're quick to criticize. Other than that, you're a null and add nothing.
Maybe you and your pal spanky in the sidecar might want to explain how those 2 statements eqaul a lie. And here all this time I was under the impression that English was your 1st language.
You fig leaf is that Obama says he didn't hear the exact statements that were aired repeatedly on the various news programs? Just that he heard similar statements at other times? Do I have that right?
In your face Laz, you got roasted. How are you gonna respond?
twit
You are basically correct. I'm glad you understand and I accept your apology.
quib·ble (kwbl)
intr.v. quib·bled, quib·bling, quib·bles
1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.
Obama listened to Wright's bilge week in, week out his entire adult life and by the end was giving this huckster over 20 grand a year to keep him in business. It seems reasonable to assume, given some of her observations on the hustings, that Mrs Obama agrees with the broad thrust of Jeremiah Wright's "theology". Does her husband?
Derb wondered the other day whether the Obama campaign was a massive "con job". But it's worse than that. If he were a con artist, he'd be like every other opportunist pol contemplating a run for the presidency: he'd be slick enough to know from the get-go that the Reverend Wright was a guy he needed to keep at way beyond arm's length; instead, he named his big pre-campaign hey-world-here-I-am book after one of his sermons. That suggests Obama didn't even appreciate Wright was a potential problem. Which, in turn, suggests a candidate as disconnected from reality as his pastor is.
Old Barack/New Barack from Mark Steyn
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmNkYTE5NmE0NmExODg1YWY1ZDM5OGQ1NDhlYjFmMzg=
I quit reading your post as soon as you quoted something from The National Review. If you want to make a point, cite a source that has some integrity.
Indeed. Close your mind.
Mark Steyn is a funny astute commentator on the American scene. Doesn't matter where he's published, his stuff is accurate, insightful and entertaining.
But go ahead, show that famous liberal talent, gained at the university, of being willing to listen to all sides of an argument before you make up your mind. :aok
Sources are important. Why would I fully trust a source that is built upon a conservative agenda or even one built on a liberal one. I want a source that attempts to give an accurate portrayal of the "truth" without a biased view. The National Review is not my idea of an unbiased view of the "truth". Just my 2 cents.Is there such a source?
It's sad. Here is a candidate that has never played the race card, done everything he can to heal racial wounds, yet all the racists are coming out of the woodwork to call him one. I guess all the white guys that have ever watched Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart or (pick your favorite evangelical) are lying, racist hypocites because they watched. Sad I tell you, just plain sad.
Remind me Toad, because I forget so quickly, what office is Rev. Wright running for?
Is there such a source?
Obama failed to say why he never left that church
....Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: “There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?”
But that is not the question. The question is why didn’t he leave that church? Why didn’t he leave — why doesn’t he leave even today — a pastor who thundered not once but three times from the pulpit (on a DVD the church proudly sells) “Golly-geen America”?
His defense rests on two central propositions: (a) moral equivalence, and (b) white guilt....
....Does Obama not see the moral difference between the occasional private expression of the prejudices of one’s time and the use of a public stage to spread racial lies and race hatred?...
....Then answer this, senator: If Wright is a man of the past, why would you expose your children to his vitriolic divisiveness?
Why did you give $22,500 just two years ago to a church run by a man of the past who infects the younger generation with precisely the racial attitudes and animus you say you have come unto us to transcend?
Good piece by Krauthammer in the paper today; goes to the actual point of the discussion. Why didn't he leave Trinity? I'm sure some will play the race card on it but I don't see how.
http://www.kansascity.com/273/story/544811.html
Good questions; too bad Obama didn't address and answer those in his speech.
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
Of course he did address them, but just like most swiftboating, saying he didn't will be more than enough evidence for the sheeple who want to believe...Like hell he did. Accusing "Whitie" of being racist is not an explanation for your own racist actions. I said it before. Hussien Obama is politically "Dead man Walking" the super's will not give it to him. Hillbillary will show that she has won the larger electoral college states and there fore she "deserves" the "selection".
Maybe you and your pal spanky in the sidecar might want to explain how those 2 statements eqaul a lie.
sooo.. mt an twentyfo... I guess you are saying that if it could be proven that osamabama was in church when some of those racist things were said or even.. that he knew they were said.. that he is knowingly attending a racist church?
Do you guys really think that this half negro guy is so stupid that he doesn't know that a church he has attended and praised.. for what? 20 years? is a racist church?
I bet that no white guy would get such a pass if he was found to attend a racist.. wait.. strike that.. a WHITE racist church.
It is your type of racism that will keep racism alive in this country.
lazs
Speaking to reporters Tuesday, Clinton referenced a speech she gave nearly a year ago after talk-radio host Don Imus' controversial remarks about the Rutgers women's basketball team.
"I said it was time for standing up for what is right, for saying enough is enough, for urging that we turn a culture of degradation into a culture of empowerment, for saying that while we of course must protect our right of free expression, it should not be used as a license or an excuse to demean or humiliate our fellow citizens. Sen. Obama spoke eloquently at that time as well," she said.
"Everyone will have to decide these matters for themselves. They were obviously very personal matters," Clinton added. "But I was asked what I would do if he was my pastor and I said I think the choice would be clear for me."
This just in from another untrustworthy news source!Some are predicting the super delegates to seat AL Gore. :noid
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/clinton.wright/
Clinton: Wright would not have been my pastor
I think that will play well in Pennsylvania. It's going to be an interesting Dem convention. First time any convention will be interesting going in. Unless the SuperDelegates jump in and eliminate the other input.
Some are predicting the super delegates to seat AL Gore. :noid
and a pathological liar.
Who here can prove Obama was sitting in the church or near the church when this minister made his statements?
It seems to make a difference in many of you peeps claims. How could he get up and leave if he wasn't there?
People tend to put an awful lot of stock in half-truths. I would assume some such peeps purchase products from infomercials.
2 cents. Just wondering
Who here can prove Obama was sitting in the church or near the church when this minister made his statements?No one has to prove what sermons he attended. They just need to prove he attended a church that has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for 20 years. This leaves two possibilities. Obama sympathizes with Marxist and racist views or he is too dumb to recognize racist and Marxist views when they slap him in the face. It is without question this church taught Black Liberation Theology. If one wants to argue Black Liberation Theology is not Marxist or racist , they should go for it. They will lose that argument.
It seems to make a difference in many of you peeps claims. How could he get up and leave if he wasn't there?
People tend to put an awful lot of stock in half-truths. I would assume some such peeps purchase products from infomercials.
2 cents. Just wondering
Wow. I just read Obama's website. The things he is saying mirrors what Hitler said pretty closely. I'm a little bit shocked. He's not even subtle about it.
Err, his methods match Hitler's, not his goals.
No one has to prove what sermons he attended. They just need to prove he attended a church that has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for 20 years. This leaves two possibilities. Obama sympathizes with Marxist and racist views or he is too dumb to recognize racist and Marxist views when they slap him in the face. It is without question this church taught Black Liberation Theology. If one wants to argue Black Liberation Theology is not Marxist or racist , they should go for it. They will lose that argument.
There is much evidence of its origin and purpose.
Wow. I just read Obama's website. The things he is saying mirrors what Hitler said pretty closely. I'm a little bit shocked. He's not even subtle about it.
Are you so sure about that?
To bad you didn't get a chance to read his Churches website before they changed it.
If someone is unaware of what's going on in his own church, how is he going to know what's going on in the rest of the world?
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1072/1043801543_a876a19e11_o.jpg)
Report to me every day on what exactly, to the minute, is happening in your church.
If you can do this, you'll stand a chance of convincing me,...of something.
So far,.... the needle hasn't even moved.
There must not be any women at your church if that's your best answer.
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear. :aok
I'm sure the Jews feared Hitler in the 1930's too.
There must not be any women at your church if that's your best answer.
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear. :aok
Hiya, Animal. :salute :DOh, get a room..
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear. :aok
BZZZZZZTTT!!! Wrong!
>*IF*<* which seems to be a massive word here. The minister preached these type of sermons ALL THE TIME on a regular basis is the only way your statement can stand. If it was the first time he did something like that, how would you then paint the picture?
There's a lot of grasping on things here that are no where near answered. Therefore claims and anttics are based on half-truths at best.
So lets move to question # 2
Who can prove or even "says" he made these type of sermons on a regular basis?
There's some apples and oranges here.
If this is all there is on Obama, I'd say he's a pretty clean guy. Since we have none of his personal actions to condemn we resort to what someone else did? That's grasping man. <G> When you folks come up with something Obama actually did himself, then lets talk. Otherwise this is truly a waste of time.
Ya just can't fix stupid.
<S>
Oh, get a room..
You'll be hearing even more about Obama's pastor for 20 years if he wins the nomination.
What's funny is the continual red herring of racism being slapped about in Obama's name.
Obama hasn't been called a racist. Wright has been called and clearly is a racist.
The real issue, the one that is really at the heart of this, is why Obama would associate so closely with Wright for 20 years. When Obama's "Just Words" speech is compared to Obama's actions in relations to Wright's words, there is a major disconnect. The man who would unite us all and help us move forward into the grand, new era of race neutral American social relationships is a close associate of one of the very worst examples of racism from the religious pulpit?
Is this the example of Obama's "Change we can believe in" that we're all supposed to worship? Saying one thing and clearly doing the opposite?
Of course, for obvious reasons, that issue can't be addressed by Obama's supporters or by those who objectively :rofl find that anyone saying anything negative against Obama is a racist.
It isn't "guilt by association". That's just another attempt to slip in the racist red herring.
The entire episode, from 20 years ago until now, calls into question Obama's judgement; actually, his lack of judgement.
The pretension that it was Wright's last sermon that is at issue is is also incorrect. The sermon about the US using nukes on Japan was given in 2001. The sermon dealing with damning America was given in 2003 and was the one where he charged the US government with inventing HIV to use against people of color.
You are right about denial though; you provide the best example of that statement so far in this thread.
I guess the other gratuitous general insults are added to show you do indeed know all the facts.
The democrats have firmly established that it is a "witch hunt" to prosecute someone who lied on the stand.
They are now attempting to establish that racism is ok and should be winked at when practiced by an "old uncle". Rest assured, this chicken will come home to roost.
I smell racism in this thread like a skunk.
Guilt by association, that's interesting.
If this is the only straw righty fanatics can grasp I'd say they probably can't find much dirt on Obama. Ya went hunting for bear and brought home a rabbit. :)
Why would he quit the church? Doesn't make sense since the minister has retired and the very sermon all are wetting pants over was his last. It's very selective on what parts of the issue people want to converse about.
There's one thing about denial, you never know you're in it.
People are pretty witty on this subject, and say things that would fly IF you didn't know all the facts or missing half a brain. But there is very little common sense being used. Propaganda usually contains no common logic.
If this is all there is on Obama, I'd say he's a pretty clean guy. Since we have none of his personal actions to condemn we resort to what someone else did? That's grasping man. <G> When you folks come up with something Obama actually did himself, then lets talk. Otherwise this is truly a waste of time.
Ya just can't fix stupid.
<S>
Tehehe
You knew that was 100% nonsense before you posted it didn't you? I'm not a Dem but seemingly Reps try to excuse everything to keep reality out of it.
Lets face some basic simple facts of life here. I smell racism in this thread like a skunk.
How is it possible for an anti-racist to defend a racism?
That was a trick question. It isn't possible.
I don't know if you got my point FT_Animal. I'm saying that YOU can't defend racism and present youself a non-racist in the same paragraph.
That's because it's about someone who belongs to a racist church.
It takes a racist of an extreme nature to think that only White people can be racist.
OHH really> Let me pump a FACT into your ears. I live in NW Indinana, I'm an audio engineer, as a side job I installed the audio in that church, it's 20 min from me. That church is at very least 70-80% whites. Now what?
Sorry FT, but I don't really believe you when you say that the church is 70-80% WHITE. Are you sure you're not just BS'in us to make a point?
it boils down tooo...
He belonged to a racist church for 20 years and had a racist as a "mentor" and a wife who thought America was a terrible place with no hope.
Now.. he claims he is unaware of these things.
That means...
1) He is a liar and and is comfortable surrounding himself with Amerihaters and racists.
2) He is one stupid half negro guy.
3) He one again plus... he thinks we are really really stupid.
I have seen the tap dancing by him on the subject and am not impressed.
And animal.. I agree that racism is boring. I don't hang out with racists much but a few of my friends from the old days are full blown.. they are pretty interesting guys but pretty boring when on the racist kick. I don't male excuses for them. they are what they are. I don't pretend I never heard em say racist things.. some are even pretty darn funny and I laugh. mostly tho... I just shake my head and say "sheesh.. give it a rest"
lazs
lazs
OHH really> Let me pump a FACT into your ears. I live in NW Indinana, I'm an audio engineer, as a side job I installed the audio in that church, it's 20 min from me. That church is at very least 70-80% whites. Now what?
I go for number three.. he is a racist and hates White America and.. he thinks we are really really dumb to not notice.
lazs
Who do you think contributed the millions and millions of dollars to his campaign?
It's still a racist church, no matter who is there. And how do you know they're really white? Obama is not really Black and he belongs to it.
Arlo, emotion has nothing to do with this for me. After all the PC BS and anti-racism diatribes we've all had to live with for the last several decades do you imagine I'm going to left a far lefty off the hook just because his association is with black racism? Racism is racism regardless of who practices it and no way in hell will I or many, many others give Obama a free pass on this important issue. The chicken has come home to roost.
No ... I'm not seeing a logical argument from you. I'm seeing a lot of emotion-driven perception clouding your judgement. I can even see it in this supposedly carefully worded post. Just sayin'. But carry on. :) :salute
Don't know why I waste the time. One of these days I'll learn, maybe even today.
It's pretty obvious why Obama attended that church, and it seems like a lot of y'all missed the mark.
If you want to be a successful, black politician in Chicago, you go to that church for the connections and contacts. It's pretty simple.
Doesn't make Obama some crazy racist out for reparations. It just makes him a typical, slimeball politician.
It just makes him a typical, slimeball politician.
Which is the point entirely and which point has been made several times throughout this thread.
This change? Hardly. This is the same old -same old. And THAT you CAN believe.
twenty fo.. little dumb white girls buy rap music too and dumb white guys smile and look uncomfortable when negros make fun of em.. It all has to do with lack of self esteem and guilt and the need to be PC.
I don't share any of that crap so I just see it like it is.
lazs