Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on March 16, 2008, 01:01:06 PM

Title: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunslinger on March 16, 2008, 01:01:06 PM
I'm trying to be nice this election season.  I don't really like ANY of the top candidates but either way I can't stand one that back peddles and can't seem to stand by convictions.

RE:  Obama's radical pastor friend I really think it would have blown over and the media/sheeple would have forgotten about it in a week.  Well he's now distancing himself from Pastor Wright and has changed his website to reflect that.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/pastor-wright-erased-from-obamas-website
 
Before
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2351/2337364029_3f0f250c45_o.jpg)

After

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2338141000_bc8bb3190c_o.jpg)

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: eagl on March 16, 2008, 01:09:32 PM
I'm personally glad it blew up, and I'm glad he responded how he did.  He needs to grow the hell up and really really learn that speech that incites and perpetuates racial hatred is simply not acceptable.  The fact that he bought into it at least enough to keep going back to that church and keep listening to that pastor is disturbing, but he is a leader of this country and I won't hold a learning experience against him.

Hopefully he and his followers who have responded to and encouraged that sort of racially inflammatory sermon will grow up and quit perpetuating racially divisive philosophy and speech.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 16, 2008, 01:23:59 PM
i think its gonna haunt him all the way. His chances of winning have just gone down the drain. He might win the Dem race but thats about it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 16, 2008, 03:14:13 PM
Yeah I think this one has really hurt his chances, up until this I was for him winning, but now after reading about this pastor I hope that someone else wins.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 16, 2008, 03:15:21 PM
I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separated in US.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: storch on March 16, 2008, 03:25:10 PM
sort of like politics and common sense in europe?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FrodeMk3 on March 16, 2008, 03:47:18 PM
i think its gonna haunt him all the way. His chances of winning have just gone down the drain. He might win the Dem race but thats about it.

If he shows' that he's ready to clean house, to change and learn, he might have dramatically boosted them. As a matter of fact, I talked to a guy on the street who told me that he was switching from McCain(!) to Obama, because he seems' more upright and sincere. I don't know anything about the dude's demographic, but he was certainly younger than I am.(34)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 16, 2008, 03:57:30 PM
If he shows' that he's ready to clean house, to change and learn, he might have dramatically boosted them. As a matter of fact, I talked to a guy on the street who told me that he was switching from McCain(!) to Obama, because he seems' more upright and sincere. I don't know anything about the dude's demographic, but he was certainly younger than I am.(34)

Did you talk to that guy before or after all this came out?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 16, 2008, 04:42:40 PM
His church is "fighting back".

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/16/obama-pastors-church-fires-back/

So, exposing his sermons to national scrutiny is an "attack". There's racism in this story alright but it's this church that's soaked in it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AWMac on March 16, 2008, 05:28:46 PM
Don't worry Rev. Sharpton will take care of everything...
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Pooh21 on March 16, 2008, 05:34:00 PM
LOL :rofl

he replaces the Pastor of his church with some random doofus from his website.


 :pray
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: DrDea on March 16, 2008, 06:30:09 PM
 Wheres Jessy Jackoff and the ACLU on this?  They must have figgures oud its better to be quiet and hide under their rocks for now :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Maverick on March 16, 2008, 11:04:11 PM
I'm personally glad it blew up, and I'm glad he responded how he did.  He needs to grow the hell up and really really learn that speech that incites and perpetuates racial hatred is simply not acceptable.  The fact that he bought into it at least enough to keep going back to that church and keep listening to that pastor is disturbing, but he is a leader of this country and I won't hold a learning experience against him.

Hopefully he and his followers who have responded to and encouraged that sort of racially inflammatory sermon will grow up and quit perpetuating racially divisive philosophy and speech.


I understand what you are saying here but frankly IMO it's past time for him to have done something about it. He says he wants "change", yet the church he goes to is a cess pit of racism cloaked in the robes of religion. I think it's just as wrong and backwards for him to have gone to a second service there as it is for a KKK member to say they  are following the path of inclusion. If he can't recognise the divisiveness of racism simply because it's from a black perspective, he is no different than the KKK claiming they're following the christian ideal.

If he can't recognise the stench and do something about it until it's exposed and he's confronted with it in the public media he's not a leader. He's just reacting like anyone caught doing something they know was wrong. IMO he's just a black version of kerry. Saying and doing anything to get elected and contradicting himself just to say what he thinks the local audience wants to hear at that particular time.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: SIG220 on March 16, 2008, 11:24:48 PM
I thought religion and politics were supposed to be separated in US.  ;)


How is it that 8 years into the 21st Century that people are supposed to be OK with a President that attends a segregated ANYTHING? 


If Bush attended a church that only allowed white people as members, would he not be called a racist??

Clearly there is a double-standard at work here.

_____________________________ ___________
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FrodeMk3 on March 17, 2008, 12:26:38 AM
Did you talk to that guy before or after all this came out?

Sorry it took so long to get back to this, Tango. It was actually before, we were standing in line at a Fastrip store. It had something on about the different delegates' on a widescreen that they had up behind the counter. I'm sure he wasn't referring to This latest action in general.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 17, 2008, 02:04:02 AM
sort of like politics and common sense in europe?

Yeah right, at $1.56 to 1 euro ratio I'd say we've done pretty well. I think russian rubles are soon more expensive than a dollar..
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 17, 2008, 08:21:21 AM
obama was for racism before he was against it.   :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: crockett on March 17, 2008, 10:43:42 AM
I still fail to see why his pastor is a issue.. last time I heard the pastor, preacher or who ever didn't sit in the white house. George Bush goes to a church that thinks the Anti Christ is gonna blow up the world.. Yet that was never all over the news.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 11:44:37 AM
I still fail to see why his pastor is a issue.. last time I heard the pastor, preacher or who ever didn't sit in the white house. George Bush goes to a church that thinks the Anti Christ is gonna blow up the world.. Yet that was never all over the news.
The way I feel about it is that usually something like this shouldn't matter, but Obama was using this guy kinda as a character reference, like having him on his website, he also has him on one of his comities.  This pastor was saying some really racist things, like the government created AIDS to kill the black man.  He also said that America got what was coming to it on 9/11 for using state sponsored terrorism against Africans.

Now another thing I wanted to say is, I don't see why now the church sees whats happening in the media by showing what this pastor has said as an attack on all black churches, all the media is doing is showing what this guy has said, there not making things up about him, or putting words in his mouth that he never said, just showing what he himself has said.  Yesterday morning the sermon at that church was titled "Black churches of America won't shut up", how is the media showing what this pastor has said in the past an attack on all black churches of America?  I think anyone in America after hearing some of the things this guy has said would say the statements were racist.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: mg1942 on March 17, 2008, 11:44:52 AM
Obama is NOT the only one out there with a nutty pastor/acquaintances...
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: crockett on March 17, 2008, 11:51:34 AM
Personally I think this country would be better off, if religion stayed out of politics and the politicians kept their religious beliefs private and out of the govt office just like the constitution says.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: dhaus on March 17, 2008, 11:56:06 AM
How is Mr. Hagee doing with McCain's campaign?  It took McCain a week or so to reject Mr. Hagee's comments.  I guess he was against catholics before he was for them.   :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 17, 2008, 12:25:42 PM
to para phrase obamas racist preacher man, " obamas chickens have come to roost".

obama is toast, but of course all the liberal apologists are tap dancing all over this saying "it don't matter'.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 12:39:08 PM
I bet once Hillary has won the nomination (and only after she wins the nomination) she will refer to this as "swiftboating". Any takers?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 17, 2008, 12:44:41 PM
It is swiftboating.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 12:56:46 PM
It is swiftboating.

If swiftboating is pointing out facts to discredit your opponent I agree. Hillary is unlikely to decry it so until she has gleaned every last drop of profit from it though.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 17, 2008, 01:05:59 PM
Swiftboating is the act of cherry picking "facts" in the form of half truths and spin in order to discredit your opponent.  Implying that Hillary has Sean Hannity on her payroll is just laughable.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 01:14:15 PM
Swiftboating is the act of cherry picking "facts" in the form of half truths and spin in order to discredit your opponent.  Implying that Hillary has Sean Hannity on her payroll is just laughable.

Sean is a latecomer to this story which was broken too soon imo. He could hardly ignore it once other outlets were covering it. I'm betting Hillary had much to do with this "story" getting mainstream attention.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 01:27:43 PM
I was wondering why this story didn't come out sooner, Obama's been in the race for awhile now and he's been associated with this pastor for even longer.  I'm sure it was someone with the Republican party that alerted the media to this, it might have been Hilliary also.  Each person running for president has a group of people who's job is to find things to discredit the other nominees, and alert the media to them. 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 17, 2008, 01:28:32 PM
Sean is a latecomer to this story which was broken too soon imo. He could hardly ignore it once other outlets were covering it. I'm betting Hillary had much to do with this "story" getting mainstream attention.

Naw, Hannity is leading the charge on this one. How do I know? Because the only talk radio station worth listening to in this area is KBOI and Hannity is the afternoon drive guy. I listen to that idiot every stinking day and it does wonders for me. I usually feel much warmer on a cold day after a few blood boiling remarks from Sean.

Anyway, I checked the internets and the 1st mention of the pastor issue was during the last debate. It was much more about Farakhan, but Obama's pastor was mentioned in passing. That was on 2/27. Hannity has been harping on this since 3/1. He's not late.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunslinger on March 17, 2008, 02:21:52 PM
Swiftboating is the act of cherry picking "facts" in the form of half truths and spin in order to discredit your opponent.  Implying that Hillary has Sean Hannity on her payroll is just laughable.

if you actually read some of these quotes they aren't out of context and they definitely aren't cherry picking!

There needs to be a response word when anyone uses the term "swiftboating" for anything they don't want to hear that's negative.  I like "tug-boating"  Yes MT you are tug-boating here.

Tug-boating:  The act of insinuating someone is telling a farce via label and completely ignoring fact!

Anyone think it'll catch on?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 07:15:09 PM
I still fail to see why his pastor is a issue.. last time I heard the pastor, preacher or who ever didn't sit in the white house. George Bush goes to a church that thinks the Anti Christ is gonna blow up the world.. Yet that was never all over the news.

I don't think the pastor is the issue, but how the shocking comments were explained. The issue is what most people are willing to believe.
We are expected to believe these comments were unusual and atypical of Wright's usual message, yet we have the congregation cheering and (literally) backslapping him in agreement to anti-America comments. They aren't grumbling or clapping uncomfortably - they're cheering. So how do we believe that sentiment is unusual in that church?

Then we are supposed to accept that Wright like a nutty uncle or relative. How many nutty relative would you visit if they weren't related to you? Why would Obama choose a nutty preacher who isn't related to him Why would Obama choose a nutty congregation that seems to AGREE with the nutty things that preacher is saying? What exactly does Obama have in common with those people who were applauding, vile, racist, anti-American comments?

If you see the pastor as the problem, you are either ignorantly or deviously missing the real problem. This is not the first seemingly unpatriotic nuance in Obama's debutante ball. Its one more seemingly unpatriotic nuance. And I don't think its explained well enough.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: dhaus on March 17, 2008, 07:26:52 PM
Ya know, you're right.  I sure hope McCain has some better explanations about why he was snuggling up next to Hagee and letting that conservative talk show host speak for his campaign.  He sure welcomed those comments as did the crowds at his campaign stops.  They were all cheering.  How do we believe those sentiments aren't unusual for McCain?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 07:35:38 PM
Ya know, you're right.  I sure hope McCain has some better explanations about why he was snuggling up next to Hagee and letting that conservative talk show host speak for his campaign.  He sure welcomed those comments as did the crowds at his campaign stops.  They were all cheering.  How do we believe those sentiments aren't unusual for McCain?

Are you really likening a radio talk show host to a church pastor? Did McCain go sit in the audience at the radio station for the better part of 20 years? If he did you might have a valid point. If he didn't your comparison is pathetic.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 07:36:19 PM
Because most Republicans were appalled at "name rhetoric" in the place of substantive arguments that could be thrown at that blank slate Obama. McCain made it very clear he was not part of Cunningham's keg party. Also, having a nutty preacher endorse you is not like proposing that a nutty preacher launch your campaign or calling that nutty preacher your mentor and pastor of two decades, marry you, and baptize your children. Did McCain do that? NO. Obama did. So lets not confuse McCain with Obama.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: dhaus on March 17, 2008, 07:48:49 PM
Hmm, my comparison is pathetic?  Hagee's views were known.  The radio talk show hosts were known.  McCain chose to associate those two with his campaign.  And took some time to renounce Hagee's remarks.  So, did McCain believe catholics were potatos before he didn't?  See how that works?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 07:52:22 PM
The thing I can't believe about all this is that the church and it's congregation seem to think that just because the media is talking about and showing the very racist & unpatriotic statements their pastor has made that the media is somehow attacking all black churches, like the title of the sermon this Sunday at the church the pastor is from was titled "Why the Black Church Won't Shut Up", how is the media talking about the racist and un-American statements this pastor made an attack on black churches?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 07:58:31 PM
Yea, your explanation works as well as MSNBC's. The video tape of that spewing hate from Obama's self proclaimed MENTOR, is going to go away because other people have nutty people who endorse them. Farrakhan ENDORSES Obama. No one is painting Obama as an anti-Semite because Farrakhan endorses him. They're asking why he would belong to a church that gives an award to anti-Semite Farrakhan and preach racist, anti-American sermons to the cheers of a visibly agreeing congregation. Its a valid question and incredible to watch news organizations try to cover up news.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 08:02:29 PM
The thing I can't believe about all this is that the church and it's congregation seem to think that just because the media is talking about and showing the very racist & unpatriotic statements their pastor has made that the media is somehow attacking all black churches, like the title of the sermon this Sunday at the church the pastor is from was titled "Why the Black Church Won't Shut Up", how is the media talking about the racist and un-American statements this pastor made an attack on black churches?

It's the same mentality that ravaged LA when a few cops beat up Rodney King. Us against them. Never mind that Rodney King earned his bellybutton whupin' twice over. So long as there are leaders telling people how mistreated and abused they are and people willing to believe it there will always be division.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 08:23:11 PM
One other thing I want to say on this, if you notice Obama said that "He was not in the pews when Rev. Jeremiah Wright made these statements", now if you look at that carefully he's just saying he wasn't there when these things were said, but I find it hard to believe that he had no idea about the type of beliefs and extreme views he had.  This guy was a good friend of Louis Farrakhan, and even went with him over to Lybia to meet with Momar Kadafi.  Wright has had a long association with these left wing causes and views and were supposed to believe that Obama didn't have any knowledge of it when he's been attending this church for 20 years.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 17, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
Personally I think this country would be better off, if religion stayed out of politics and the politicians kept their religious beliefs private and out of the govt office just like the constitution says.

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . ."

You know who wrote this?































George Washington

He wrote it in his Proclomation to the People after the after the writing of the First Amendment.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 08:40:42 PM
Another problem I have with this big news story that liberal news organizations are trying to bury, is the ridiculous argument that these are but a few sermons out of thousands of sermons. A white preacher could give 10,000 sermons preaching the morality or equality and erase it all with a sermon proclaiming an ethnic group the ills of the world. You can't unring that bell. So the feeling is "well for 10,000 sermons he successfully hid his bigotry." Now this has nothing to do with Obama, but the media's defense of Wright. I don't care that he gave 10,000 innocuous  sermons. I care that he gave racist and anti-American sermons, however few they might be. Obama's part in this is his judgement and veracity. Is he so naive as to not recognize extremism or is he lying about his part? This is without a doubt a major news story. If this doesn't blow thew liberal bias of the mainstream media out of the water , nothing will. The effort of the mainstream media to whitewash this is reminiscent of the propaganda of TAS or Pravda.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 17, 2008, 09:08:39 PM
It was more than one sermon. He was wearing different clothes inseveral of them.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 09:15:08 PM
It was more than one sermon. He was wearing different clothes inseveral of them.

Oh, I know, but the point the defenders of Wright were making is "its only a few times."
Well you only have to preach bigotry a few times to cast doubt on thousands of innocuous sermons.
I don't think the propaganda media is so dumb as not to understand that. I do think they are so devious as to obscure it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 09:15:17 PM
It was more than one sermon. He was wearing different clothes inseveral of them.
I don't think anyone hear was saying it was only one sermon.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 17, 2008, 09:24:35 PM
No one is defending what the reverend said. The "swift boating" comes from the constant barrage of pseudo news about Obama's pastor as if Obama himself said those things. Since when have we as a Country held people accountable for the actions of acquaintances? I was a Catholic for many years. That certainly doesn't make me a pedophile.

Obama has denounced the statements made by his pastor. Enough said.


On the other hand, do you honestly believe that the statements and sentiments of the reverend Wright are manufactured out of whole cloth? Or are you willing to accept the fact that there still may be a little bit of righteous anger in the black community?
 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 09:27:59 PM
On the other hand, do you honestly believe that the statements and sentiments of the reverend Wright are manufactured out of whole cloth? Or are you willing to accept the fact that there still may be a little bit of righteous anger in the black community?
 

A little? Osama bin laden has nothing over this guy when it comes to anti-american rants.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 09:32:15 PM
Looks like Obama is going to win the democrat nomination anyhow. You can bet your sweet bippy we haven't heard the last of Reverend Wright.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 17, 2008, 09:36:10 PM
And if by some weird chance he loses to McCain it will prove that Amreeka is racist, not that people didn't want the most liberal senator in Congress to move on to the oval office.  :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 17, 2008, 09:45:12 PM
No one is defending what the reverend said. The "swift boating" comes from the constant barrage of pseudo news about Obama's pastor as if Obama himself said those things. Since when have we as a Country held people accountable for the actions of acquaintances? I was a Catholic for many years. That certainly doesn't make me a pedophile.

Obama has denounced the statements made by his pastor. Enough said.


On the other hand, do you honestly believe that the statements and sentiments of the reverend Wright are manufactured out of whole cloth? Or are you willing to accept the fact that there still may be a little bit of righteous anger in the black community?
 

So you start off saying no one is defending Wrights statements and then ask if they're plausible? I think his contention that that white people created AIDS to destroy black people is ridiculous and there is no light you can cast it in to make anything but ridiculous and racist. I think the contention that laws are written (such as the 3 strikes laws) to imprison black people is racist. I think the contention that the United States makes drugs available to black people so they can imprison them, racist and unpatriotic. I think noting the civilian casualties of the nuclear bombs in Japan while ignoring the civilian casualties of Japanese aggression in WWII is unpatriotic propaganda. I think the graphic demonstration of the the Clinton/Monica - Clinton/African-American metaphor is vile and pedestrian.

In short, those sermons are NOT plausible. Those published sermons are disgusting.

Obama did denounce the sermons. He has to  - as I said and most can see - they are disgusting.
What he hasn't said is how he was unaware of this church's sentiment for 20 years.
He just said he wasn't in the pew at the time. Seems the media wouldn't buy that from most people but are AOK with it from Obama.
Why?

The question is why Obama joined a church with anti-American sentiment or oblivious to the fact that he was a member of a church with anti-American sentiment. What he is, no one knows. The questions right now are about his veracity and judgment.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 17, 2008, 10:40:47 PM
And if by some weird chance he loses to McCain it will prove that Amreeka is racist, not that people didn't want the most liberal senator in Congress to move on to the oval office.  :lol

I think Obama is a racist if hes been a memeber of that chirch for 20 years and been listening to those kinds of sermons without speaking out against Wright or at least quiting that church.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 17, 2008, 10:44:44 PM
rumor is Reverend Wright has left the country and is hiding out in Africa until after the election.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 17, 2008, 11:06:02 PM
The whole "I didn't know that Rev Wright had those kind of beliefs" is ridiculous, he's been in that church for 20 years and it's not like Rev. Wright just started having these kinds of beliefs & feelings, the Rev. has been a long time friend of Louis Farrakhan and we all know what his beliefs are when it comes to other races and America.  You know not only has Obama just simple been a member of this church, I'm sure that he's spent alot of one on one time with the Rev, and in all that time he never heard the Rev. say any of these types of things?  It just seems a little far fetch to me, Obama knew exactly what this guys thoughts & feelings were when it came to these things.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 11:37:33 PM
Ya know this church's response is kinda funny. They are getting indignant about an attempt to silence them. Who do you think is trying to shut them up? Obama is the only one I've heard "officially" condemning his old preacher. Republicans want him and them to keep on preachin'.  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 17, 2008, 11:56:50 PM
Seems they are being pressured to "shut up" but they're blaming the wrong people. I'm quite happy to let them loudly express their extremist views. Since they just removed their "12 precepts" from their web site I'm thinking they aren't as unashamed as claimed to be. The only one that really raises my eyebrow is number 8. Here they are anyhow:


We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.


 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 12:43:42 AM
He needs to grow the hell up and really really learn that speech that incites and perpetuates racial hatred is simply not acceptable.

Some may need to grow up and stop assuming he's the one deficient when the smear's in high gear. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Hap on March 18, 2008, 02:22:02 AM
i think its gonna haunt him all the way. His chances of winning have just gone down the drain. He might win the Dem race but thats about it.

Tis so. 

See an old thread about general election.  I stand by my prognostication.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 18, 2008, 02:51:49 AM
Check out this interview from last year with this Rev. Wright on Hannity & Colmes, you'll see what a arrogant racist this guys is, and Hannity brings up those 12 precepts of a black church and ask's a great question, that if you replaced the word black with white wouldn't you call that racist.  He just really comes across as a jerk, he constantly interrupts and just talks over Hannity, it's a little over 5min long, but it really shows you who this guy is.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright interview (http://foxnews.com/video?maven_playerId=videolandingpage&maven_referralParentPlaylistId=f2fbb2b0c994bbf2ba24f62ab95c596f8bd98bbc&maven_referralPlaylistId=0bc56e415b2e04a215f6a3dba55a3402fc523c09&maven_referralObject=60c91360-6a60-4aed-8410-a7600f8ebac4)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 03:41:32 AM
Tis so. 

See an old thread about general election.  I stand by my prognostication.

Hold ya to it later. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Rich46yo on March 18, 2008, 06:48:51 AM

                                   I suspect the good reverend has already lost the Presidential race for Obama. Most of all when its taken into account the guys only real qualification to be President is his few years as an IL politician. As big a nest of sneak thieves as ever existed anywheres. Things is for Obama to win he has to re-create a Bill Klinton type victory of 1992. Which means he has to have the NASCAR crowd voting for him.

                                   McCain is going to tbe the next US President. You see that already dont you?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 06:52:36 AM
McCain is going to tbe the next US President. You see that already dont you?

Speaking faith into reality ..... neoconpub style? Whatever it takes to control the hyperventilation. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Rich46yo on March 18, 2008, 06:59:07 AM
Speaking faith into reality ..... neoconpub style? Whatever it takes to control the hyperventilation. :D

                        Can someone translate that please? You must be a West Coaster.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 18, 2008, 07:04:06 AM
Speaking faith into reality ..... neoconpub style? Whatever it takes to control the hyperventilation. :D
Well when you put faith style & reality into the same thought your bound to come across nonconput and as a result hyperventilate.






See I post post nonsense too. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 07:10:20 AM
                        Can someone translate that please? You must be a West Coaster.

Your intuition fails you as much as your intellect did. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 07:11:15 AM

See I post post nonsense.

Fixed. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 18, 2008, 07:23:35 AM
Well I don't know where your from, but that post made absolutely no sense, I'm thinking English isn't your first language?

Btw "neoconpub style" isn't a word.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Rich46yo on March 18, 2008, 07:27:43 AM
                     Well I live in IL. and I posted a few months ago that this guy has skeletons that will eventually come out. And sure enough they have and they will continue to. So far he has gotten "this far" on a smile and the novelty of being a 1/2 black guy running for President. Ask anyone whose backing him where he stands on issues and they will give you a blank look. And now the country is learning his spiritual mentor, the one who married him and baptized his kids, who brought him to Christ in the first place, dont really like white folks?? And you dont think thats fatal to Obama?

                    Do the math? The whacked out white left and the black folks in the country aint enough votes to get him in. And between being raised as a Muslim, and being mentored by this guy in the church, I can hear the white union/church vote stampeding away from him like zebras. You see a lot of the white Democratic vote doesnt feel like we caused a bunch of Muslim fanatics to fly airplanes into our buildings. And that's just one of the many whacked out statements the good reverend has made.

                  And Obama has to be careful in that he doesnt repudiate him to much and piss off his own base. Its quite a problem for him and so far hes blowing it. I believe he's lost his chance and even if he gets nominated hes not going to win. He should have left this guys church long ago if he had such ambitions.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Shuckins on March 18, 2008, 09:02:04 AM
He's beginning to slide in the polls.  Not too much of a slide yet, but the first indications are showing that the novelty is beginning to wear off, and people are starting to take a second look.  Gossamer wings and fairy dust, without any practical experience, is only going to carry him so far.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Rino on March 18, 2008, 09:20:47 AM
     I don't think this episode is going to matter much in the long run.  Heck, just
look at the diehards here like Arlo, MT and Crockett.  Obama could be pitchforking
babies on live TV and it wouldn't change their minds.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 18, 2008, 10:05:35 AM
     I don't think this episode is going to matter much in the long run.  Heck, just
look at the diehards here like Arlo, MT and Crockett.  Obama could be pitchforking
babies on live TV and it wouldn't change their minds.

Change my mind about what? Obama NEVER SAID anything that is exciting the crowd in here. In fact he has denounced all of the things that are exciting the crowd in here.

AND I have never been an Obama supporter... ever.

All that aside, maybe a little perspective is in order. At the risk of having those of you prone to reading mis comprehension I will capitalize..I THINK REV. WRIGHT IS WRONG.

Now in fairness it may be helpful to try and understand where those statements come from. I know understanding this stuff is akin to trying to understand the motivation behind Al Quaida.. God forbid.

Giving AIDS to black people? Why on Earth would a black person jump to the conclusion that the government would deliberately infect them with a disease? That has never happened..... has it? Oh wait, maybe it has. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html)

Now compare the outrage (and news coverage) over the testing of Holocaust victims by the Nazi's to the amount of coverage you've seen on this issue. Maybe the indignation over past treatment is a little more understandable.

Maybe, but I doubt this will sway anyone to anything other than more BS finger pointing at the guy who never said any of those things.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Shuffler on March 18, 2008, 10:16:08 AM
... not to mention obama's own racial slurs in one of his books.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Maverick on March 18, 2008, 11:00:09 AM
If this pastor had a history of such remarks, why did it take a public disclosure in the media for obama to distance himself from it. Did he not recognize it in the first place? Is he really that dense to not recognize racism and extremist remarks from his own friend and pastor. The guy who performed his marriage ceremony, the guy who baptised his own kids. Is that the environment in which he wants his kids indoctrinated? How is that a path to "change"?

I think he knew exactly what kind of person his friend and pastor is. I think he agreed with the comments as he didn't bother to distance himself until it became public (in the context of the nation) knowledge that he was having a long term personal and professional association with a person that bigoted. It's more like turning on the light in a roach infested area. When the light comes on they all scurry away.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Hap on March 18, 2008, 12:46:21 PM
If this pastor had a history of such remarks, why did it take a public disclosure in the media for obama to distance himself from it.

Because he didn't want to.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 18, 2008, 01:16:10 PM
Just look at that interview I posted he did with Hannity & Colmes, that was from last March of 07, and you can tell from that interview that he's bigoted, racist, & just a plain jerk.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 01:59:47 PM
Well I don't know where your from, but that post made absolutely no sense, I'm thinking English isn't your first language?

Btw "neoconpub style" isn't a word.

Pretty sure they are both words. One's even in the dictionary. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 18, 2008, 02:01:40 PM
     I don't think this episode is going to matter much in the long run.  Heck, just
look at the diehards here like Arlo, MT and Crockett.  Obama could be pitchforking
babies on live TV and it wouldn't change their minds.

Well extreme hyperbole certainly isn't. I mean if extreme hyperbole and mud slinging doesn't work on me ... what will? I must be an extremist or sumpin'. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tango on March 18, 2008, 06:18:38 PM
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor . . ."

You know who wrote this?































George Washington

He wrote it in his Proclomation to the People after the after the writing of the First Amendment.

No reply yet, Crockett. You still around?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Rino on March 18, 2008, 06:26:35 PM
Change my mind about what? Obama NEVER SAID anything that is exciting the crowd in here. In fact he has denounced all of the things that are exciting the crowd in here.

AND I have never been an Obama supporter... ever.

All that aside, maybe a little perspective is in order. At the risk of having those of you prone to reading mis comprehension I will capitalize..I THINK REV. WRIGHT IS WRONG.

Now in fairness it may be helpful to try and understand where those statements come from. I know understanding this stuff is akin to trying to understand the motivation behind Al Quaida.. God forbid.

Giving AIDS to black people? Why on Earth would a black person jump to the conclusion that the government would deliberately infect them with a disease? That has never happened..... has it? Oh wait, maybe it has. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html)

Now compare the outrage (and news coverage) over the testing of Holocaust victims by the Nazi's to the amount of coverage you've seen on this issue. Maybe the indignation over past treatment is a little more understandable.

Maybe, but I doubt this will sway anyone to anything other than more BS finger pointing at the guy who never said any of those things.

     Hmmm, you disagree with what was said <sorta>, and you don't support Obama <kinda>, but you try the
tired old gambit of relative morality to defend the guy you supposedly don't care about.  I think my first post
still stands on it's merits. 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 18, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
My take:

Obama jumped the shark when he insulted the intelligence of so many Americans in his Philly speech. 

A 20 year close friend of Wright's, and a member and financial supporter of a black racist church (not uncommon in large cities) -  for 2 decades, but he had no clue about the anti-whitey, anti-American stuff? 

I don't believe most people think Obama is racist - tho I'm sure many more do now.  I think he is just a politician, maybe naive, who went where the votes were in that community, but stuck around too long.

His unpardonable sin is expecting Americans to buy his load of steamy crap regarding this.  One thing I will give him tho, is he had no choice but to take this tack.  Otherwise he is either a closet racist (wife too) or he is too naive, lacking in judgement and to prone to accidents to lead the most powerful country in the world - in spite of being the smoothest speaker we've heard in a while.

The black power people, the extreme left and the hard core socialists who were strongly supporting Obama probably still will, but what Obama lost is everyday middle America. 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 18, 2008, 11:22:54 PM
At least this didn't hit mainstream media until perhaps too late for Hillary to overtake him. I don't care what color the guy is or what skeletons are dragged from his closet. All I care about is defeating someone as far to the left as he is. If it takes exposing his church of 20 years as a bastion of racial bigotry so be it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Chairboy on March 18, 2008, 11:48:05 PM
Might want to read his speech, he addresses a lot of the concerns above.  I read it, and I view the Wright thing in a different light now.  Considering that the current administration took council from folks like Pat Robertson who has gone on record as stating that the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11 because it was morally wicked...  yeah, this isn't that big of a deal.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 18, 2008, 11:50:23 PM
Pretty sure they are both words. One's even in the dictionary. ;)
Never heard of neoconpub, tried to find a definition for it but couldn't.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 18, 2008, 11:58:38 PM
Might want to read his speech, he addresses a lot of the concerns above.  I read it, and I view the Wright thing in a different light now.  Considering that the current administration took council from folks like Pat Robertson who has gone on record as stating that the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11 because it was morally wicked...  yeah, this isn't that big of a deal.

That he embraced this racial bigot for 20 years will put off most Americans. If Obama wins the nomination you can be sure we'll see Wright ranting and spewing hate 'til we're sick of it. Free country and all. No big deal is right but it's enough to cost him the election. Some will say it's because ameirca is racist. The irony of Wright's racism that cost Obama the election will be lost on them. 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Chairboy on March 19, 2008, 12:00:47 AM
Go ahead and read the speech in full, then comment again:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashos.htm

It's pretty much a requirement to continue discussing this issue unless y'all are making no bones that you have no actual interest in his views on this issue and just want to take pot shots.  If the latter is true, then of course there's no reason to read the speech.  I'm not a supporter, but I'm tired of single-sided bombastic sermons, which is what this thread is basically.  It ain't a conversation, that seems evident.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 12:01:08 AM
Never heard of neoconpub, tried to find a definition for it but couldn't.

Wrong one. Try again. You get three. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 12:04:16 AM
Go ahead and read the speech in full, then comment again:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashos.htm

It's pretty much a requirement to continue discussing this issue unless y'all are making no bones that you have no actual interest in his views on this issue and just want to take pot shots.  If the latter is true, then of course there's no reason to read the speech.  I'm not a supporter, but I'm tired of single-sided bombastic sermons, which is what this thread is basically.  It ain't a conversation, that seems evident.

I know who obama is and what he stands for and I despise it. Denouncing him for his long and close association with an activist bigot is fair and reasonable and I could care less about any defense he might make.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: evenhaim on March 19, 2008, 12:11:57 AM
Someone care to explain what happend to me briefly, i really havent been paying enough attention to the us elections...
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 19, 2008, 12:18:08 AM
i listened to obamas speech, first he said he "strongly disagreed" with the preacher man then he spent the rest of the speech telling us how great the preacher man was and how bad america is.

obama is in a tight spot, he needs to hold onto the black racist vote and at the same time convince the moderates that he is not a racist.

i don't think he can do it, he will run out of koolaid.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 12:24:55 AM
If Obama is unaware of what's going on in his own church, how the hell is he suppose to know what's going on in the country?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:59:09 AM
You guys make me laugh. Playing the race card (of all things) against Obama. Are you suckered in by one of the most bizarre smear campaigns to ever crawl out of the muck or are you an active part of it? Seriously ... is this to soothe anxiety over Obama's popularity and Mac's lack of? To quell fear over the possibility of the mantle passing onto someone from a different party under the claimed guise of this candidate actually being worse for the nation than the Republican frontrunner (much less the current president)? Quite honestly, this tactic actually smells (stinks to high heaven, to be precise) of it's own racism and fear.  :aok

Well ... if mudmails seem to have you convinced I guess the following isn't gonna drive you from the "convictions" you derived from them:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_obama.html

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/01/10/hannity_plays_the_race_card_against_obama_and_echoes_viral_attack_email.php

http://teresacentric.com/2008/03/more-vile-racist-smear-on-obamas-beliefs/

http://themoderatevoice.com/religion/christianity/18400/much-ado-about-jeremiah-wright/

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 02:10:53 AM
The only one playing the race card is his church, a Black Supremacist Church.

P.S.  I read the membership requirements before they changed them for Obama.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 02:12:59 AM
The only one playing the race card is his church.

 :lol :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 02:27:59 AM
The only one playing the race card is his church, a Black Supremacist Church.

P.S.  I read the membership requirements before they changed them for Obama.

As spoon-fed to you from what source? And read into with what mindset and predisposition? You don't fool me. You're scared to death of black people. Admit it. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 02:33:39 AM
I browsed the churches website the day Obama first mentioned it.  I knew about it way before Hannity ever mentioned it.

How can you support a church that spews out so much hatred for another race?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 03:21:26 AM
I browsed the churches website the day Obama first mentioned it.  I knew about it way before Hannity ever mentioned it.

How can you support a church that spews out so much hatred for another race?

Give example and let me see if you're not looking way too hard to rationalize your fear and own prejudice. :D

(You certainly didn't click the links I provided) ;) :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 04:29:25 AM
You must be one of those people who believes only White People can be racist.  I looked at those links and the first one helps prove my point.

P.S.  You're the one who wishes to remain ignorant on this subject, not me.

P.P.S  If I saw a church preaching about White America like his church preaches about Black America, I'd call them racist too.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 05:06:03 AM
You must be one of those people who believes only White People can be racist.  I looked at those links and the first one helps prove my point.

P.S.  You're the one who wishes to remain ignorant on this subject, not me.

P.P.S  If I saw a church preaching about White America like his church preaches about Black America, I'd call them racist too.

Yeah yeah ... noticed no valid example provided. Carry on.  :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 05:08:08 AM
I made a valid point but you're just too blind to see.  I bet you support the Black Panthers too.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 05:10:57 AM
I made a valid point but you're just too blind to see.  I bet you support the Blank Panthers too.

I bet you're not the sharpest gambler in town, Slim. I can tell by your dark shades you think you see better than most.  :aok :cool:
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 19, 2008, 05:34:05 AM
I'm not wasting anymore of my time on an Extreme Leftest like you.  If you wish to leave your head in the sand, that's your prerogative.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 19, 2008, 07:25:25 AM
It was a great speech. Not good news for Hillary. More unfortunate is the immediate spin the radical right has put on what really amounted to a brilliant political move and a watershed moment in American politics and race relations. I hope America takes the high ground.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/18/politics/main3947908.shtml

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 19, 2008, 08:01:04 AM
mt.. don't worry.. I am sure the witch has a few more good ones up here sleeve before she has to actually have him done in.   

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 09:03:41 AM
Arlo's likely to be typical of some of the far left shills. Calling people racist for noticing Obama's preacher for 20 years is a bigot. Sorry Arlo, that dog won't hunt.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:08:18 AM
I'm not wasting anymore of my time on an Extreme Leftest like you.  If you wish to leave your head in the sand, that's your prerogative.

Well that breaks my heart to pieces, your intutive female side notwithstanding. Sorry I put you on the spot and you couldn't provide. Carry on.  :aok :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:10:03 AM
Arlo's likely to be typical of some of the far left shills. Calling people racist for noticing Obama's preacher for 20 years is a bigot. Sorry Arlo, that dog won't hunt.

Speaking of which ... you're ready to stand in for Xargie on my challenge, I take? Let's see `ol blue tree the coon, so to speak.  :lol :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 19, 2008, 09:12:16 AM
What he said before the speech,
Obama at first tried to avoid the controversy. Then he responded Friday in a blog entry on the Huffington Post in which he said he was not in church to hear those comments and condemned them.

What he said in the speech,
Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes……………….just as I?m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

----A no Obama my Minister has never said anything along the lines of your racist reverend has said,, nice try though on the white guilt angle.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:16:54 AM
Hmmmm ... and all this howling over Obama being a racist (us whites are so gonna be in for it if we let him be president) stuff is based on that argument? :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 09:17:48 AM
Speaking of which ... you're ready to stand in for Xargie on my challenge, I take? Let's see `ol blue tree the coon, so to speak.  :lol :aok

I didn't see your "challenge" but there's no point in trying to prove anything to you.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:19:32 AM
I didn't see your "challenge" but there's no point in trying to prove anything to you.

Thought so. Ramble on, Elmer Fudd. Democrat season! :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 09:25:02 AM
Thought so.

As well you hould have. It's your own fault no one takes you seriously. If you were actually interested in the exchange of ideas it might be different. Your nonsensical flitting about reminds me of a gnat buzzing around my ear.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 19, 2008, 09:27:53 AM
Quote
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

There is just a small part of the speech. It would be pretty disingenuous, or should I say silly, to base your condemnation of a man not only on what his Pastor said, but on sound bites of what his Pastor said.  
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 19, 2008, 09:29:27 AM
           
           /\
            |
            |
            |
fast becoming irrelevant
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:29:59 AM
As well you hould have. It's your own fault no one takes you seriously. If you were actually interested in the exchange of ideas it might be different. Your nonsensical flitting about reminds me of a gnat buzzing around my ear.

Well, Mr. Irony .... seems the latest round of my not being taken seriously is a constant exchange of you and others avoiding being put on the spot of providing enough substance to back your mud campaign. As if I asked you to provide a better argument just to outimpress you. Constant. Avoidance. Excuses. Amusing.  :salute :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 09:30:03 AM
There is just a small part of the speech. It would be pretty disingenuous, or should I say silly, to base your condemnation of a man not only on what his Pastor said, but on sound bites of what his Pastor said.  


I condemn him for his far left policies. That his pastor is a loud spoken bigot is just convenient.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:31:46 AM
/\
            |
            |
            |
fast becoming irrelevant

Still didn't rise to the challenge. Dive, JBA, dive. Afterall I'm so "irrelavant" you can't let go. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 09:33:47 AM
Still didn't rise to the challenge. Dive, JBA, dive. Afterall I'm so "irrelavant" you can't let go. :D

It is hard not to swat at the pesky buggers.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:34:04 AM
I condemn him for his far left policies. That his pastor is a loud spoken bigot is just convenient.

Or so you would have us believe based on condemnation and not much else, it seems. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 09:35:31 AM
It is hard not to swat at the pesky buggers.

Well, if I ever feel a thing, I'll let you know. Til then you may want to consider putting an actual argument in your argument.  ;) :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 19, 2008, 10:29:28 AM
As well you hould have. It's your own fault no one takes you seriously. If you were actually interested in the exchange of ideas it might be different. Your nonsensical flitting about reminds me of a gnat buzzing around my ear.


i have thought that for a long time. :rofl  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 19, 2008, 11:40:26 AM
Quote
Might want to read his speech, he addresses a lot of the concerns above.  I read it, and I view the Wright thing in a different light now.  Considering that the current administration took council from folks like Pat Robertson who has gone on record as stating that the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11 because it was morally wicked...  yeah, this isn't that big of a deal. - Chair

Chairboy, I don't know if your comment was meant for me, but a reading of the transcript is what prompted me to post.

Obama did address most if not all the points.  However, I commented to say that I don't buy his explanation of his close association with that church and pastor.  I bet that middle America doesn't either.   What Bush/Robertson did or said is irrelevant to me in my consideration of Obama's campaign getting wrapped around the axle over this.  I see this as a significant factor in the upcoming election, which is where we differ. 

I would never vote for someone with his socialist leanings.  But asking me to believe that he and his wife do not have the same general beliefs as the church they have been so closely involved with for 20 years is a bit too much too ask of most people - at least most of the voters who can put him over the top in the election.  YMMD.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 11:56:45 AM

i have thought that for a long time. :rofl  :aok

Between alternating asking me to dummy down my arguments to your level and complaining that I oversimplified my response and wasn't participating fairly, I can see that, john. Path of least resistance for the simple-minded. Good to see you attracted to this flame. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 11:59:20 AM
However, I commented to say that I don't buy his explanation of his close association with that church and pastor.  I bet that middle America doesn't either. 

What's left of it, eh?

Not much of a rebuttal. And another wager is casually made. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 19, 2008, 12:11:02 PM
what's left of it,Arlo?  The same part that Obama is trying to woo...

further, I did not rebut anything, but only meant to clarify.  I understand that we disagree - that's fine.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 12:21:37 PM
further, I did not rebut anything, but only meant to clarify.  I understand that we disagree - that's fine.

But that's my contention. The argument that Obama's a racist and a danger suddenly becomes one of clarifying and reclarifying (repeating) the same initial suspicians, accusations and correlations without offering anything, in the end, but feelings over what the politically motivated group that's gotten behind this belief feels. If asked to provide the hard copy, word for word, that proves the accusation for mutual assessment over what's really meat and potatoes versus what's just a sprig of parsley that smells like real food ... then suddenly the challenger "isn't worth taking seriously." Sure it's fine we disagree. I never expect to agree with anyone on anything all the time. But my take on what is or isn't worth taking seriously is related directly to how well one can present their argument when pressed for more than they had planned to present in the first place. That's a constant about me that's apparently driven more than one fellow AHer over the edge, at times. Glad to see you more resistant, additional concrete added to your argument or not.  :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 12:34:12 PM
You guys should understand that the ones that won't let Obama off the hook for being a member of a racist church for 20 years aren't likely to vote for him regardless. The focus is to reveal his unseemly side to those fence sitters who might be inclined to vote for him. Since when have politics been fair? 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 12:41:23 PM
You guys should understand that the ones that won't let Obama off the hook for being a member of a racist church for 20 years aren't likely to vote for him regardless. The focus is "to reveal his unseemly side to those fence sitters who might be inclined to vote for him." Since when have politics been fair? 

Oh hell, Iron, interesting take and phraseology there but everyone knows what mud is, what it's designed to do and what it looks like when slung. What some seem at a loss for is providing anything other than the same tired mud when someone doesn't fall for it being sprayed,  prayed over then rinsing and repeating the first forty-eight times and *still* insists a better argument be made if you want to sway their vote to "the better man." Mud flingers are gonna find it a harder tactic than before. People still remember what they ended up with last time from falling for "swift-boating."
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 12:45:10 PM
Pointing out the truth that's already exposed isn't necessarily slinging mud. If some are making false or misleading statements about what's plain for all to see that might be sligning mud but Reverend Wright has slung enough mud that we need only sit back and look.

<edit>

You just can't undo 20 years with one speech.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 12:47:23 PM
Pointing out the truth that's already exposed isn't necessarily slinging mud. If some are making false or misleading statements about what's plain for all to see that might be sligning mud but Reverend Wright has slung enough mud that we need only sit back and look.

You've *still* yet to really establish any undoing needs doing.

I'll be sure not to cast my vote for Rev Wright. Mission accomplished. Everything else you got seems more "truthiness" than "truth." ;)  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 12:49:28 PM
You vote for whoever you like Arlo. Bill Clinton lead the way to ensure double standards or no standards became acceptable. Perhaps if Obama is elected racism will become acceptable too.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: trax1 on March 19, 2008, 12:58:33 PM
The thing about this whole situation is that Obama has tried to say that he had no idea Rev. Wright had these kinds of feelings or beliefs, which I find hard to believe since he's been a member of his church for over 20 years.  Rev. Wright didn't just start having these kinds of beliefs recently, he's had them for a long time, he's been friends with Louis Farrakhan for a long time and we know what he's beliefs are.  Obama wasn't just a member of this guys church, he was also friends with the Rev., he spent alot of time with him one on one, and he's gonna try to make us believe that he never knew that Rev. Wright had these thoughts & feelings, I just find that extremely hard to swallow. 
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:05:05 PM
You vote for whoever you like Arlo. Bill Clinton lead the way to ensure double standards or no standards became acceptable. Perhaps if Obama is elected racism will become acceptable too.

Of course I will.

Not the first time what you wrote looks like a line that would fit perfectly into the book "1984." And that's one of the reasons you'll always have a hard time getting me to believe what you want to (and really want me to).

HWOWY? (How would Orwell write you?):

Pride in self = racial hatred of others

We are to be held responsible for the indiscretions of anyone associated to us

What was acceptable before then unacceptable later will be acceptable again

But only because we elected what was once unacceptable

Blame the victim, especially if they weren't as weak as we initially thought

Any tactic in politics that gets your candidate elected is good for the people

:D TRUTHY ... if you don't accept it then you're just lying to yourself, so there! :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:08:09 PM
The thing about this whole situation is that Obama has tried to say that he had no idea Rev. Wright had these kinds of feelings or beliefs, which I find hard to believe since he's been a member of his church for over 20 years.  Rev. Wright didn't just start having these kinds of beliefs recently, he's had them for a long time, he's been friends with Louis Farrakhan for a long time and we know what he's beliefs are.  Obama wasn't just a member of this guys church, he was also friends with the Rev., he spent alot of time with him one on one, and he's gonna try to make us believe that he never knew that Rev. Wright had these thoughts & feelings, I just find that extremely hard to swallow. 

Actually what you and others here seem to try to boil this down to is that you fear Obama will hurt white people if elected president because you've found a way to rationalize that he's the racist and not those trying to actually get away with playing the race card against him. I find that a ballsy move but not a particularly compelling one.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 01:11:02 PM
Actually what you and others here seem to try to boil this down to is that you fear Obama will hurt white people if elected president because you've found a way to rationalize that he's the racist and not those trying to actually get away with playing the race card against him. I find that a ballsy move but not a particularly compelling one.

You must be sitting down 'cause I know you'd be flat on your face otherwise with that much spin. I guess what you're saying is that only white people can be racist? It's certainly beeen said before, maybe by Wright's buddy Farrakahn.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 01:12:25 PM
Lol, now there's some spin for you.

Obama never heard Wright utter an anti-American or racist remark despite listening to him for 20 years from the pulpit?

Worth repeating:

Quote
Toad on March 15, 2008, 04:19:34 AM

Once again we are asked to suspend our disbelief, discard our common sense and ignore the man behind the curtain.

Is there anyone stupid enough to believe that statement? Of course there is! MILLIONS of them in fact.

We get the government we deserve.

If anything, I think the fear is that the great hope for change we can believe in is just another lying politician that hangs out with a really beaut of a pastor.

As someone mentioned, can you imagine the uproar if McCain's pastor of 20 years spewed such Wrighttripe about blacks? You have to laugh at politics in this country.

I'm still writing in Paul.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 19, 2008, 01:14:37 PM
I don't think it was a great speech. It pretty much avoided the question as to why such a hateful pastor compels him to go to that church and bring his children to that church. Again, the views being expressed in those hateful sound bytes are usual and welcome in that church. The reaction of the crowd shows this. They literally embrace the hate. Yet Mr. Obama chooses this church to bring his children to.

I don't buy the lovely old grandfatherly pastor who preaches hate now and then. There are lovely grandfatherly pastors that never preach hate.
Why wasn't Obama attracted to those?

The reason is simple. Wright headed the largest church in Chicago. Opra went to that church. It was politically expedient for Obama to go to that church. Obama  put up with hate directed at white America because it was politically expedient to do so. When Wright became a liability, Obama was in the process of throwing him under a bus when he found his African-American base was getting angry at him for doing so. Of course he can't denounce him.

There's no great speech here. There is no accountability, but rationalizations. He was tying up a few loose ends. He couldn't leave that claim that he was never in the pew when the hatred was rolling out of Wrights mouth. That claim would have blown up in his face in the future. Someone would be able to prove he was.

I don't see a great speech. I see diversion. Change the subject. The subject wasn't hatred in black churches or racism. It was why was Obama would choose such a church. Its why Obama would make this person preaching hate, part of his campaign.

Isn't it wonderful that he earns the right to lecture The United States on race by using terrible judgement and belonging to a bigoted church.
Obama did nothing but divert the subject from his bad choice of company that is becoming a pattern.

It wasn't a great speech. It was a shell game.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:16:49 PM
You must be sitting down 'cause I know you'd be flat on your face otherwise with that much spin. I guess what you're saying is that only white people can be racist? It's certainly beeen said before, maybe by Wright's buddy Farrakahn.

Actually what I said is the effort to portray Obama as a racist is an obvious effort. I see how much effort you're putting into it right here. I also call it a ballsy move since the only real apparent motivation of fearing "Obama the racist" being elected is the fear of what he'll do to white people. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:19:13 PM
Lol, now there's some spin for you.

Obama never heard Wright utter an anti-American or racist remark despite listening to him for 20 years from the pulpit?

Worth repeating:

If anything, I think the fear is that the great hope for change we can believe in is just another lying politician that hangs out with a really beaut of a pastor.

As someone mentioned, can you imagine the uproar if McCain's pastor of 20 years spewed such Wrighttripe about blacks? You have to laugh at politics in this country.

I'm still writing in Paul.


Couldn't you simplify things and repeat yourself over and over in just one thread in the same forum? Just a suggestion. It's no less (probably more) efficient in the crusade. Carry on. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 01:21:00 PM
Actually what I said is the effort to portray Obama as a racist is an obvious effort. I see how much effort you're putting into it right here. I also call it a ballsy move since the only real apparent motivation of fearing "Obama the racist" being elected is the fear of what he'll do to white people. :)

You got me there. I am very much afraid of what he will do to white people. Of course not just white people but all colors that will ultimately suffer as a result of his far left ideology.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:31:50 PM
You got me there. I am very much afraid of what he will do to white people. Of course not just white people but all colors that will ultimately suffer as a result of his far left ideology.

If racial fear isn't your real motivator you should just concentrate on the final ideology driven sentence and leave it at that because, frankly, the whole "Obama's a racist! Fear the negro candidate!" argument comes off more racist than the dots being vainly connected to accuse Obama of being one. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 01:40:47 PM
If racial fear isn't your real motivator you should just concentrate on the final ideology driven sentence and leave it at that because, frankly, the whole "Obama's a racist! Fear the negro candidate!" argument comes off more racist than the dots being vainly connected to accuse Obama of being one. :)

Why should I ignore the fact that he belonged to a racist church for 20 years? Isn't racism bad? Shouldn't it be exposed to the light of day for all to see?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 01:44:49 PM
Why should I ignore the fact that he belonged to a racist church for 20 years? Isn't racism bad? Shouldn't it be exposed to the light of day for all to see?

Sources I've found say you exaggerate for political spinnery sake. Ever since I offered rebuttal and challenge nobody's offered up a dime worth of something more convincing than "we think he" "we repeat" "so there!."  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 01:46:06 PM
At least when I post I try to add something to the discussion. Even if it's in two similar threads.

Too bad no one can say the same for you.

 :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 01:48:24 PM
Sources I've found say you exaggerate for political spinnery sake. Ever since I offered rebuttal and challenge nobody's offered up a dime worth of something more convincing than "we think he" "we repeat" "so there!."  :aok

I'm not going to sort through your posts to find your challenge. My source is straight from the bigot's mouth and the church's web site. I heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes all I need to know this congregation was led by and practiced racism.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 02:14:38 PM
At least when I post I try to add something to the discussion. Even if it's in two similar threads.

Too bad no one can say the same for you.

 :rofl

I added a request for additional material. Something more substantial. Nothing substantial materialized. Am I supposed to give you accolades at this point? :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 02:16:04 PM
I'm not going to sort through your posts to find your challenge. My source is straight from the bigot's mouth and the church's web site. I heard with my own ears and saw with my own eyes all I need to know this congregation was led by and practiced racism.

Well then if all that matters is what you now know in your heart don't expect sharing just that to have the same universal effect on the rest of us. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 02:20:36 PM
Nah, you're supposed to post something germane to the thread you are posting in.

But not many have any hope that will ever happen on this BBS.

After all, Arlo, you always were too leaky a  vessel to put much hope into.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 19, 2008, 03:10:40 PM
Quote
But that's my contention. The argument that Obama's a racist and a danger suddenly becomes one of clarifying and reclarifying (repeating) the same initial suspicians, accusations and correlations without offering anything, in the end, but feelings over what the politically motivated group that's gotten behind this belief feels. If asked to provide the hard copy, word for word, that proves the accusation for mutual assessment over what's really meat and potatoes versus what's just a sprig of parsley that smells like real food ... then suddenly the challenger "isn't worth taking seriously." Sure it's fine we disagree. I never expect to agree with anyone on anything all the time. But my take on what is or isn't worth taking seriously is related directly to how well one can present their argument when pressed for more than they had planned to present in the first place. That's a constant about me that's apparently driven more than one fellow AHer over the edge, at times. Glad to see you more resistant, additional concrete added to your argument or not.  Smiley - Arlo

i'm not arguing anything.   I wanted to state my opinion that Obama has jumped the shark.  The issue is certainly one of concern for his campaign staff, wouldn't you agree?

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 03:17:29 PM
Obama wasn't as forgiving of Don Imus as he would like for us to be of his decades long association with this racist organization. Of course there is nothing Obama can do to make this right, except lose the election, and perhaps resign from the Senate.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 19, 2008, 03:24:15 PM
Well, looks like someone has forgiven him: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/19/obama-web-site-still-carries-new-black-panther-party-endorsement/

<edit> Guess that's not new, been there for a while.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 06:14:10 PM
Nah, you're supposed to post something germane to the thread you are posting in.

But not many have any hope that will ever happen on this BBS.

After all, Arlo, you always were too leaky a  vessel to put much hope into.

Asking for something more substantial than what's been offered so far actually is germane. Answering my request with anything other than "Sorry, I got nuthin" when you apparent have nothing ... much less whining about how leaky *my* boat is at that point ... is just ironically sad. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 07:37:42 PM
The irony is that you apparently have not yet realized how sad and trite your act here has become.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 19, 2008, 07:40:08 PM
Asking for something more substantial than what's been offered so far actually is germane. Answering my request with anything other than "Sorry, I got nuthin" when you apparent have nothing ... much less whining about how leaky *my* boat is at that point ... is just ironically sad. :)

Other than muddying water, what points have you posted Arlo? I'm sure you've posted some, but I have to tell you, I've lost them in what seems to be a forest of personal digs. So if you could please capsulize your point, I might know what heck you are trying to say if its not just muddy the water! Whats your point? Are Wrights comments racist? Is it ok for Obama if they are racist? Is Obama establishing a pattern of making friends with people that say and do stupid things (Ayers, Rezko, Wright) a political liability? He's running on his JUDGEMENT because he has no history! If his judgement seems to be wanting, I think its a pertinent issue.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 19, 2008, 07:50:49 PM
While I don't think 7 months from now, people will remember who Rev Wright is, I don't think they'll ever forget the sound byte of him saying "na naw naw, not God bless America, God D America!" That will never go away, and Obama through his relationship with this guy is unelectable. The video clip is as powerful as the video of the planes crashing into the the buildings. People are not going to spend a lot of time trying to see his point. Its personal. To all those who love America, him saying "God D America!" is personal. He can't unring that bell.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 19, 2008, 08:12:33 PM
Quote
For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division and conflict and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle — as we did in the O.J. trial — or in the wake of tragedy — as we did in the aftermath of Katrina — or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.


Amazing speech. Maybe some of you should read it or listen to it before you pass judgement.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 19, 2008, 08:20:01 PM
It was nowhere near "amazing". I read it and watched it. It's no "I have a dream" that's for damn sure. He was asked to address why he attended a racist church for 20 years, gave over 20k in donations, had this racist baptized his kids, an marry him off to his wife. And he gave me "we're all a bit racist" and we're all angry, so that's why I won't denounce the racist Wright.
He reads a well-written speech off of Teleprompters as well as any politician fighting for his political life. This will not play well for him in Penn, or in the mid west come November. I call “dead man walking” on his political career.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 08:23:33 PM
.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 08:24:34 PM
It isn't about his speech that tried to change the focus of the spotlight.

The question he still hasn't answered satisfactorily is why he associated so closely and for so long with someone like Wright (and Wright clearly has a long, negative history).

I think a large portion of the American electorate realizes that if this were flipped and a white candidate, either Hillary or McCain had associated with a white doppelganger of Wright there would be absolutely no chance of that candidate proceeding further, wonderful speeches not withstanding.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 19, 2008, 08:37:57 PM
Amazing speech. Maybe some of you should read it or listen to it before you pass judgement.


Fair enough. I read the speech and I sensed misdirection and back peddling. The misdirection was the controversy was not over race and who's grandparents were afraid of other races. The question was over judgement of the potential President and if he could be fooled by foes of America. The speech I heard didn't address that question! I don't care if his grandmother was afraid of black people. I care that he is taken in by someone like Wright or Ayers. That's what I'm worried about. You point out the passages in the speech that address those issues and what makes it "amazing." I am seriously asking because I don't see it. If its there, you should be able to quote it. The transcript is out there.

Quote the amazing parts.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
The irony is that you apparently have not yet realized how sad and trite your act here has become.

You don't know irony either ... mmmmmkay. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 08:57:42 PM
See, once again nothing to add.

It's your legacy Arlo. In the future, you'll be the standard by which other trolls are judged.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 08:58:46 PM
Other than muddying water, what points have you posted Arlo? I'm sure you've posted some, but I have to tell you, I've lost them in what seems to be a forest of personal digs. So if you could please capsulize your point, I might know what heck you are trying to say if its not just muddy the water! Whats your point? Are Wrights comments racist? Is it ok for Obama if they are racist? Is Obama establishing a pattern of making friends with people that say and do stupid things (Ayers, Rezko, Wright) a political liability? He's running on his JUDGEMENT because he has no history! If his judgement seems to be wanting, I think its a pertinent issue.

Do you got anything other than your own editorial slant on this? All I'm askin'. If it's too hard just say so. No really ... I didn't start the thread and I don't have the issues you're having. If you can't take someone asking you to make your argument sensible then kneejerking blame on *them* isn't the answer. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 08:59:52 PM
See, once again nothing to add.

It's your legacy Arlo. In the future, you'll be the standard by which other trolls are judged.

Irony is you saying nothing while blaming me for adding nothing. Go figure. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 19, 2008, 09:10:29 PM
Once again, it's a shame you can't read.

I've said quite a lot in this thread that is directly on topic. I'll admit to wasting some time and electronic ink responding to your trolling. Pretty much everyone sees you for what you are Arlo. BTW just pointed it out again; you have nothing to add to the threads in which you participate.

I guess the only one not seeing it is you, of course.

Which makes it that much more entertaining. You're the person people laugh at, not with.  :)

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 19, 2008, 09:53:46 PM
Do you got anything other than your own editorial slant on this? All I'm askin'. If it's too hard just say so. No really ... I didn't start the thread and I don't have the issues you're having. If you can't take someone asking you to make your argument sensible then kneejerking blame on *them* isn't the answer. :D

Its not an editorial slant.  I think he has bad judgement and is back pedaling, and stated why. I don't know Obama or if he's a racist. I doubt he's a racist - seriously doubt he's a racist - since he's in my age group. His education is very much like how I've been educated. I really don't think he has a slavery hangover or animosity toward white people. I do think he's naive and has terrible judgement, and that impression comes from the radicals and frauds he aligns himself with. I also have a huge problem with his veracity. His new found forgiveness for people's racist attitudes because of when and how thy grew up, is just that - new found and politically expedient. That's not editorial slant, that's a fact. He wasn't forgiving of John Imus. Forgive Wright for riding "dirty" an imaginary "ho" or Wright's disgusting charictarization of white America, but fire Imus for a failed attempt to be funny or hip. The consideration of the whole person only extends toward Wright I see. That's not editorial slant, its a fact documented in Obama's short history. I also find his explanation of how Rezko became his neighbor, laughable. The guy is stupid or a liar.

Yea, I have lot more than editorial slant. I have Obama's history. What have YOU got? So far I see nothing but personal digs and its transparent. I asked you to capsulize your point and you can't. The reason is you don't want to discuss anything, you want to create noise so no one else can discuss it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Maverick on March 19, 2008, 10:37:30 PM
Arlo,

You've overplayed the troll card. Nothing you say anymore will be taken seriously. Unless you change the trite way you have decided to play the troll no one is going to listen to you. You are a great argument for an ignore feature return since you are just spamming the thread.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 19, 2008, 11:24:40 PM
Once again, it's a shame you can't read.

I've said quite a lot in this thread that is directly on topic. I'll admit to wasting some time and electronic ink responding to your trolling. Pretty much everyone sees you for what you are Arlo. BTW just pointed it out again; you have nothing to add to the threads in which you participate.

I guess the only one not seeing it is you, of course.

Which makes it that much more entertaining. You're the person people laugh at, not with.  :)



You're putting more effort in whining that I don't play fair than you would have just repeating the supposed incontrovertable proof you could have if you did have.  :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 20, 2008, 06:39:56 AM
No whine, just an accurate observation. It's certainly not that you don't play fair; you don't play at all. You're not a contributor in any thread, you're a troll in all threads.

It's just past time that those that actually use the board to discuss acknowledge you for the troll you are and deal with you accordingly.

There are a lot of folks here that disagree on various topics; that's a good thing because it makes for lively discussion. The point is they do discuss. MT, RPM and others that I verbally joust with have sharp minds, an ability to organize their thoughts and articulate their positions. They are an enjoyable presence on this BBS and one of the reasons I read this BBS.

You, otoh hand, offer nothing to this community.

Have a nice day!

 :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 20, 2008, 08:12:13 AM
Quote the amazing parts.

Now this is a game of diminishing returns. I agree with one of my favorite pundits who said "A politician has spoken to the American people like they were adults." I could quote all kinds of passages that I think are amazing, of course you will just say.. not to you. I'm not expecting anything nearing consensus on this, but in my opinion Obama has done exactly the right thing.

Anyway, I've never been known to quit just because the outcome was in doubt...

I thought this part was particularly ground breaking:

Quote
In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 08:28:48 AM
No whine, just an accurate observation. It's certainly not that you don't play fair; you don't play at all. You're not a contributor in any thread, you're a troll in all threads.

It's just past time that those that actually use the board to discuss acknowledge you for the troll you are and deal with you accordingly.

There are a lot of folks here that disagree on various topics; that's a good thing because it makes for lively discussion. The point is they do discuss. MT, RPM and others that I verbally joust with have sharp minds, an ability to organize their thoughts and articulate their positions. They are an enjoyable presence on this BBS and one of the reasons I read this BBS.

You, otoh hand, offer nothing to this community.

Have a nice day!

 :aok

Whoa ... nothing to offer the whole community, whatsoever. Harsh overreaction, there.  :lol

Does this mean you don't have anything better to add to win my conviction regarding whatever you've decided you're convinced of regarding this thread this particular moment? Cause I've got time. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 20, 2008, 08:29:31 AM
yep MT..  changing the hope...  there he is, the guy with all the new ideas sounding exactly like ted kennedy and all the other socialist democrats.. the worst of the liberal socialists.

you can boil his whole argument in that quote of yours to the same old tired liberal socialist class envy "its not your fault.. the rich man is keeping you down"

the so called white resentment is not from the rich man saying that one race gets preferential treatment over the other...  you simply can't paint it that way long and get away with it.. the rich are not the ones who are assaulting the whites at 7 times the rate whites assault them.. the rich aren't the ones who are on the tube rapping about the white devil.

the downplaying of black racism and hate against whites is not gonna work... class envy on the other hand does work to an extent but.. it is a pretty tired and worn card to play.  almost as worn as the race card but...

In the end.. that is all the democrats have.. that is their version of "hope" and "opportunity" it is blame and envy and racism.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 20, 2008, 08:38:53 AM
 :lol

It's nice that every time you post you validate my opinion of your worth to this BBS.

Another perfect example in a long line of them.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 08:45:09 AM
In the end.. that is all the democrats have.. that is their version of "hope" and "opportunity" it is blame and envy and racism.

Hmmmm .... and what excuses are the Republicans using to do the same (now and for quite some time leading up to now)? If it's not thier version of "hope and opportunity" then what are they claiming to accomplish with the behavior you accuse the Democrats of displaying, citizen? Is this the point where we're all supposed to stand, cross our arms and yell bad stuff at the picture of Obama on the viewscreen? :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 08:50:10 AM
:lol

It's nice that every time you post you validate my opinion of your worth to this BBS.

Another perfect example in a long line of them.

I've never seen anyone on this forum require as much self-validation to hide behind to avoid the hot-spot before. Some have come close but you've taken the cake to date. ;) So like I've wasted my time repeating  when you continue to try to creatively avoid an admission that you've run out of anything to convince me with (whether it's laziness, frustration of general confusion on how to effectively proceed that's stopping you) - seems you got nuthin'. Doesn't seem to bother me as much as you, however. Thanks for tryin'. If you want I'll give you an example of how to move on from here.  :cool:
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 20, 2008, 09:00:00 AM
I think it's indicative of your inflated feeling of self-worth that you think I've tried to convince you of anything. Although, to be fair, it could be that reading comprehension problem you have rearing its ugly head yet again.

You're not part of the discussions here; you're just background noise.

Someday, if you ever actually participate in a discussion, putting your ideas out there for all to see, maybe I'll change my opinion on that. I seriously doubt that will ever happen.

Trolls rarely change.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 09:03:12 AM
I think it's indicative of your inflated feeling of self-worth that you think I've tried to convince you of anything.

You might wanna see to your definition of "contributing." Just sayin'. Ok, rant on cause I'm not seein' much else from you at this point. Let me know if that changes. Ta. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 20, 2008, 09:38:09 AM
Well the part you quoted is classism plain and simple. Its a typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology. I'm not a Marxist so perhaps thats why I don't see its greatness. The important question is how many Americans are Marxists and will that work for them?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 10:02:22 AM
Well the part you quoted is classism plain and simple. Its a typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology. I'm not a Marxist so perhaps thats why I don't see its greatness. The important question is how many Americans are Marxists and will that work for them?

Is this what you're reacting to regarding a snippet of Sen. Obama's speech as quoted by MT? :

"Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS."

Cause it seems a fair stretch to try to spin that into Marxism. Are you a Christian and familiar with the teachings of Christ? Do you consider Christ a Marxist (in spite of having formed the basis for the Christian faith long before Marx was born)? Senator Obama offered some insight on the rest of the man's character (his wreckless indiscretionary snippet from a sermon as illustrated by a mud campaign aimed at Obama aside), including service to others (including country) and dedication to the tenants of Christ. Marxism? Like I said, seems a pretty far stretch. Then again, it doesn't seem clear precisely who or what you're reponding to without a respondee or a quote. Just clarify, if you would. I'm sure there's a more accurate method we can agree on to pick apart and repiece the event, the man and the effect it's having on this presidential race. My assurances that this isn't some sort of "troll trick of non-contribution" as some may rattle off when rattled. :)  :salute
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 20, 2008, 11:38:50 AM
No, Arlo, I don't consider Jesus a Marxist.

" There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "-Galatians 3:28

I don't consider Jesus as a Marxist as he chose Mathew as on of his disciples.

This contradicts Black Liberation Theology:

"The definition of Jesus as black is crucial for christology if we truly believe in his continued presence today. Taking our clue from the historical Jesus who is pictured in the New Testament as the Oppressed One, what else, except blackness, could adequately tell us the meaning of his presence today? Any statement about Jesus today that fails to consider blackness as the decisive factor about his person is a denial of the New Testament message. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus reveal that he is the man for others, disclosing to them what is necessary for their liberation from oppression. If this is true, then Jesus Christ must be black so that blacks can know that their liberation is his liberation. . "
-  A Black Theology of Liberation , James H. Cone.

Black Liberation Theology seems less humble than Luke (emphasis mine of course):
 "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:9-14

Now I don't want to get in a Bible quoting contest, but you are trying to spin this into me calling Bible teachings, Marxist. What I'm saying is  Black Liberation Theology rewrites the Bible with a Marxist/class warfare agenda.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 20, 2008, 11:53:24 AM
Arlo, after this episode, most people are going to know what Black Liberation Theology is. I'd bet two weeks ago, few non-black people ever heard about it. Now they are going have to decide if they're comfortable with it, and a potential President who subscribes to it. Its hard to get past the fact that its a very racist, very classist theology. I'm not comfortable with. People need to inform themselves and look into Black Liberation Theology and its roots. Obama knew that is what Wright was teaching for 20 years. Is he going to reject Black Liberation Theology? I doubt it, so people better understand what it is before they vote.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 20, 2008, 12:13:20 PM
I find it interesting how many Racist Obama surrounds himself with

“We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," Meeks said then while preaching. "But they are still the same white people who are presiding over systems where black people are not able to be educated. You got some preachers that are house n------. You got some elected officials that are house n------. Rather than them try and break this up, they're gonna fight you to protect that white man.” -- Sen. Barack Obama's pledged superdelegate from Illinois, state senator James Meeks.

“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.”....James Cohen

There is no denying, however, that a strand of radical black political theology influences Trinity. James Cone, the pioneer of black liberation theology, is a much-admired figure at Trinity. Cone told me that when he's asked where his theology is institutionally embodied, he always mentions Trinity. Cone's groundbreaking 1969 book Black Theology and Black Power announced: "The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people. . . . All white men are responsible for white oppression. . . . Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.'. . . Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement." Contending that the structures of a still-racist society need to be dismantled, Cone is impatient with claims that the race situation in America has improved. In a 2004 essay he wrote, "Black suffering is getting worse, not better. . . . White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it. It claims not to exist, even though black people are dying daily from its poison" (in Living Stones in the Household of God).....James Cohen


And how how many times  Obama has lied,

"I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." -- Sen. Obama, March 2008.

"I never heard comments like these." -- Sen. Obama, also in March 2008

"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." -- Sen. Obama, ALSO in March 2008.

Obama whose campaign denied it ever had any meeting of any kind with Canadian officials, and certainly not to discuss NAFTA. When they were caught lying, Sen. Obama admitted a meeting, but denied they discussed NAFTA. When the memo of the meeting came out ("We discussed NAFTA"), the campaign simply stopped answering questions.

This is the same Sen. Obama who denied an inappropriate fiscal relationship with Tony Rezco, only to later admit that the notorious and allegedly criminal Chicago hack had directly intervened to help Sen. Obama buy a multi-million house.

The campaign had initially claimed Rezko-connected contributions were no more than $60,000, an amount the campaign donated to charity. Then the figure grew to around $86,000, and there were
additional revelations that put the amount at about $150,000. Obama's [new] $250,000 accounting was a substantial jump and clearly contradicted earlier campaign statements that Rezko was just one of "thousands of donors."
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 01:45:11 PM
Now I don't want to get in a Bible quoting contest, but you are trying to spin this into me calling Bible teachings, Marxist. What I'm saying is  Black Liberation Theology rewrites the Bible with a Marxist/class warfare agenda.

No, I asked you if that was the portion quoted that you were referring to as Marxist ideology. I'll ask again. Is that the portion quoted that you referred to as "typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology?"

The dimensions involved in your viewpoint as well as the agenda you appear to have before this discussion even began here seem blown out of proportion. But please, answer my question directly as you continue to expound and make logical connections for me. Thank you.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 20, 2008, 02:16:53 PM
It also seems odd that osamabama is married to a woman who said that she has never ever in her whole life felt any hope for America until she seen a crowd cheering for her husband..

the guy has been living with a woman who thinks America was/is a land of no hope or opportunity.. even tho.. she has had an ideal lifestyle all her life.   

while neither his pastor or his wife mean that the half negro guy is a racist.. it does mean that he, at the least, has the most important people in his life who are, if not full blown racists..  at least, seperate from Americans and American ideals in general.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 20, 2008, 02:20:04 PM
That is not what she said, but you probably know that already.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 20, 2008, 02:35:57 PM
I think Laz may be referring to this quote of Michelle's:

Quote
“Hope is making a comeback and, let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change,” she said during a rally in downtown Milwaukee

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 20, 2008, 02:41:31 PM
so mt..  you think it is healthy to live with a person as your wife... who has never had any hope for America or Americans?   who goes to a church that has a huge chip on it's shoulder about the white race?

It is not "is America ready for a negro president"  it is "are negros ready to be part of America."   osamabama and everyone close to him seem to be saying no to the latter.   

How is blaming whites for your problems or class envy in any way "new" or "change"?   

same old line.. different whiney liberal socialist with a chip on his shoulder looking for a way to exploit envy.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 20, 2008, 03:09:41 PM
No, I asked you if that was the portion quoted that you were referring to as Marxist ideology. I'll ask again. Is that the portion quoted that you referred to as "typical liberal speech expounding on the evils of capitalism. Its the Marxist rhetoric common in black Liberation Theology?"

The dimensions involved in your viewpoint as well as the agenda you appear to have before this discussion even began here seem blown out of proportion. But please, answer my question directly as you continue to expound and make logical connections for me. Thank you.

The specific line that MT quoted would be :

Quote
Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.

This is a the specific line that points to capitalism as the problem that is creating the tensions between the races. This puts up the rich ( and probably white according to most Black Liberation Theologists) cooperate bosses as the Bourgeoisie, and the confused racist working class whites and blacks as Proletariat.

There's nothing new here. Its Marxism with a racial slant. The "real culprits" are the rich white people, the Bourgeoisie.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 20, 2008, 03:30:55 PM
"For the first time in my life I'm really proud of my Country" - Madison WI.

Hardly the same as
Quote
who has never had any hope for America or Americans


Why spin it? Why make a huge deal out of a statement by a candidates wife? The political discourse in this Country is broken and it is statements like yours Lazs that break it. Maybe her life experience was a little different than yours. Maybe she has never felt pride like this before. Why exactly is that a bad thing? Doesn't mean you hate America. I always loved my children, but the real moments of pride came when they accomplished something great. Doesn't mean I didn't love them.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 20, 2008, 03:33:09 PM
The specific line that MT quoted would be :

"Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many."

This is a the specific line that points to capitalism as the problem that is creating the tensions between the races. This puts up the rich ( and probably white according to most Black Liberation Theologists) cooperate bosses as the Bourgeoisie, and the confused racist working class whites and blacks as Proletariat.

There's nothing new here. Its Marxism with a racial slant. The "real culprits" are the rich white people, the Bourgeoisie.

First, I can't understand why your first response would have been anything other than providing the quote you were referring to since I wasn't able to intuit from your post which one you meant.

Secondly, I still see you blowing it out of proportion. That quote is no more Marxist or racist than it could be rationalized to be "Martian" or "Elven." The middle class has been dealt a blow by the current corporate culture as described in the quote. How dealing with the problem at hand makes something "Marxist" (ie: attacking capitalism ... which it didn't - you just percieve so, for some reason) therefor making it dishonest is, itself, a less than honest method of rebuttal. If this is the tact you're choosing to take then my curiousity is satisfied. Carry on.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 20, 2008, 06:39:33 PM
First, I can't understand why your first response would have been anything other than providing the quote you were referring to since I wasn't able to intuit from your post which one you meant.

Secondly, I still see you blowing it out of proportion. That quote is no more Marxist or racist than it could be rationalized to be "Martian" or "Elven." The middle class has been dealt a blow by the current corporate culture as described in the quote. How dealing with the problem at hand makes something "Marxist" (ie: attacking capitalism ... which it didn't - you just percieve so, for some reason) therefor making it dishonest is, itself, a less than honest method of rebuttal. If this is the tact you're choosing to take then my curiousity is satisfied. Carry on.

 I should have quoted MT. I thought my reply would directly follow his. My bad. I don't think I'm blowing anything out of proportion. A lot smarter people than I have pontificated on the Marxist agenda of Black Liberation Theology. I encourage all to look into Black Liberation Theology to see if they are comfortable with it. If they are, they should vote for Obama. I'm not comfortable with it at all. All of a sudden he isn't a blank slate. I have a glimpse of the "change" he sees and it extends further that socialized medicine. I find it anti-capitalistic to the Castro degree. Sorry - I don't wanna be Cuba.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 20, 2008, 08:49:44 PM
I think Laz may be referring to this quote of Michelle's:

“Hope is making a comeback and, let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change,” she said during a rally in downtown Milwaukee
This B-ocht has never had anything to be proud of in 40+ years. How does that make you vet's feel? Makes me want to puke in my mouth and I'm not a vet.

The more I hear about this racist couple the more I dislike them. 
MT did you give up supporting Hillbillary?  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,98113.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,98113.0.html)


I would say if someone attend 20 years of  KKK meetings and donated over 20k to the cause, and asked the leader to Baptist his kids and marry him off to his wife, I’d say they shouldn't be elected.

Hussein Obama's political career will be over after November. Once he and hillbillary have kick eachothers A's for 6 months they will be to damage to win the general. And we don't elect losers, after the first try. Not since Nixon.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 12:10:49 AM
This B-ocht has never ...

The more I hear about this racist couple .... 
.... supporting Hillbillary? ... 

20 years of  KKK meetings !!! ...

Hussein Obama's political career will be over after November....

Once he and hillbillary have kick eachothers A's ....

As much as I like your avatar, I don't find hyperbole and mud as particularly convincing as you seem to. No really. Read what you wrote. It's there and you seem convinced that it's convincing. I kinda understand that there may be angst involved regarding the potential election of a Democrat ... even worse ... a "racist" black Democrat .... but, hey. That's ok. Carry on. I'm good with it. No need to ask you to elaborate on something already quite elaborate. And apologies in advance for offending those who seem to think my criticism of hyperbole without adding something to the conversation as "worthy" as it "is" (ahem) is dragging the "debate" of the thread down. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2008, 12:19:59 AM
Some of the talking heads are saying this may even cost Obama the nomination. That would be a real shame. I think we should all forgive the guy his poor judgement. At least until he whups Hillary.  ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: rpm on March 21, 2008, 12:49:36 AM
All this talk about a Obama being a racist. Does that mean it mean more coming from O'C racists?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 21, 2008, 07:43:30 AM
It's not so much that he's may or may not be a racist. But he sure dose exercise poor judgment.
The people he supports are racist. i.e Wright
The people he calls friends are crooks. i.e.  Obama who denied an inappropriate fiscal relationship with Tony Rezco, only to later admit that the notorious and allegedly criminal Chicago hack had directly intervened to help Sen. Obama buy a multi-million house.
The campaign had initially claimed Rezko-connected contributions were no more than $60,000, an amount the campaign donated to charity. Then the figure grew to around $86,000, and there were
additional revelations that put the amount at about $150,000. Obama's [new] $250,000 accounting was a substantial jump and clearly contradicted earlier campaign statements that Rezko was just one of "thousands of donors."

And he's untruthfull about the NAFTA talk.


Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 21, 2008, 07:58:13 AM
I don't know how you can interpret..

 ""For the first time in my life I'm really proud of my Country"

to mean anything other than thinking that America was/is a VERY bad place.   Why would anyone marry and live with such a person if they loved America?

Seems to me that they are both saying that the old America.. the America of capitalism and opportunity needs to go away and the new/old teddy kennedy and your-0-peean America of socialism and race hating  and class envy needs to take over.

So far I have never met a negro who trusted the white race and did not blame.   why would I vote for one to have power over me?   even a half negro one.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 21, 2008, 08:04:21 AM
Obama's church is not an appropriate place for children, yet his kids grew up in it. 

The church magazine "Trumpet", staffed with church members, just last year, gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan.

Rev. Wright preaches botulism of the mind, yet he is a "mentor" and close friend of Obama, and we are supposed to believe that Obama didn't know about this??? I wonder if Obama has denounced Farrakan?  I never heard him do it.

Remember, this man could be the next president of the United States.  I would withhold my vote from Obama just to keep him from entertaining people like Rev. Wright and Louis Farrakan in MY Whitehouse.

These issues are not trivial.  I'm not trying to convince or pursuade anyone, particularly those with their heads in the sand, but the fact is, Obama shot himself in the foot.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 21, 2008, 08:04:59 AM
Basically, all these facts about Obama...yes, facts... lead to one inescapable conclusion.

Despite all the hype for hope and change, you are meeting the new boss, same as the old boss.

He is the typical if not quintessential lying politician, with all the necessary baggage to provide irrefutable proof that he's more of the same-old, same-old.

Which is OK; we get the government we deserve from both parties. It's just that it's silly to pretend he's really something different.

Oh, and before you all start on my unreconstructed Republicanism, McCain falls into the same category in my opinion.

I'm still writing in Paul; he's got his baggage too. Just less of it than the rest.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 21, 2008, 08:24:13 AM
I don't know how anyone can find anything "new" about the half negro guy... any political belief that is not exactly the same as the 80 year old teddy kennedy has been trying to foist off on us for 50 years.

the only thing "new" about him is that he may be the first person to run for pres who distrusts the white race and America in general.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Shuckins on March 21, 2008, 08:36:23 AM
I've visited the church web-site.  Obama's church is an Afrocentric denomination, which can mean many things.

Early Afrocentrism developed as a reaction to Eurocentrism, and had as its founders such intellectual giants as W.E.B. DuBois.  It was an attempt to gather and organize the histories and achievements of the many African cultural groups and nations, which Eurocentrists had largely ignored or downplayed.

At its best, it is a multicultural movement, and has made a positive contribution to the understanding of the history of the African continent and its contributions to the development of civilization.  At its worst, it has developed radical, feather-headed black-supremacist splinter groups and revisionist historical notions that take credit for almost all artistic, social, and political achievements in Africa and the western world;  in effect, these are racist organizations.  Some of their pseudo-historical claims about blacks dominating the culture of ancient Egypt are patently ridiculous and have been rejected by all true historians.  Radical Afrocentrists claim that Socrates, Cleopatra, and Jesus were all black, and that the ancient Orthodox Jews were responsible for starting the slave-trade.

That last "fact" has been embraced by Lous Farrakhan and sheds light on some of the statements by Rev. Wright that were made in the televised sermon that has recently been shown, and reshown, on national television.  There is no way, in my opinion, that the "Rev." Wright has kept his beliefs largely hidden from his congregation for twenty year;  or that Obama, being a member of his congregation and a close friend, did NOT know about them.  The "Rev.'s" views on politics and race only became an issue when Obama became a major political candidate for the presidency.  Only now, when those views have become "inconvenient," has Obama repudiated them.

Say what you like, no thinking, intelligent, and fair-minded Christian would remain a member of a church for two decades where the pastor preaches such a vile, hate-filled, moronic gospel.....
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Eagler on March 21, 2008, 08:53:44 AM
the crazy preacher means nothing .. he and his insane comments will be forgotten way before the convention.

the half black man has the nom in the bag.
if the "supers" give it to the ho, the bros will burn down their neighborhoods and the dumbacrats know it will destroy their party ...

I just hope this country has enough common sense left to vote McCain in over bro dumbo ... but I am not convinced we do.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 21, 2008, 08:54:21 AM
in a radio interview obama called his white grandmother a "typical white person", if a white politician called a black a "typical black person" they would be called a racist and be forced to resign.

obama should do the "right " thing, drop out of the race and resign from the senate.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 21, 2008, 09:00:48 AM
what this means in practical terms is...

It will give an excuse to the white voters who are voting on the "white guilt" ticket to use reason instead of being bullied and guilted into voting for the half negro guy just so they won't be fitted for a racist jacket..

they can now get all PC and put the jacket where it belongs.. on the osamabama socialist.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 21, 2008, 09:17:00 AM
in a radio interview obama called his white grandmother a "typical white person", if a white politician called a black a "typical black person" they would be called a racist and be forced to resign.

obama should do the "right " thing, drop out of the race and resign from the senate.
Found the qoute.
“The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way.” -- Sen. Barack Obama, making the racial stereotype that all white people are guilty of racial stereotyping.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Mr No Name on March 21, 2008, 04:19:21 PM
Osamabama cant distance himself from this - he sat in front of this guy for 20+ YEARS and never saw a problem...  Wright -Obama - Sharpton - Calypso Louie Farrakhan --- collectively, the Klan with a tan.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Eagler on March 21, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
Osamabama cant distance himself from this - he sat in front of this guy for 20+ YEARS and never saw a problem...  Wright -Obama - Sharpton - Calypso Louie Farrakhan --- collectively, the Klan with a tan.

no silly, only whites are racists, everyone else has a viable reason to hate the other colors... :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 05:02:03 PM
Basically, all these facts about Obama...yes, facts... lead to one inescapable conclusion.

And that appears to be that you presume your opinions and viewpoints (or perhaps the opinions and viewpoints of the authors of this mudfest) are accurately portrayed facts to begin with then go from there. I'm seein' a lot of that here. Mixed with fear and anger (closely related and often bred one from the other). And no, I don't think my public disagreement or critisim of your opinion or the way you present it (anyone here who seems to have personal issues with Sen. Obama based on this particular smear camp they find tasty) isn't gonna affect your head of steam one bit. No, I don't find what's been offered here all that damning and really it comes off as more revealing of shameful traits within the screaming finger-pointers than the other way to me. But then, I'm at least trying to keep an open mind to assess and reassess. When something more concrete than editorials, spun and respun like a tops to rationalize the phobia mindsets that inspired them to begin with, materializes here (and I haven't got a problem calling that my opinion), I may even be swayed. A daunting challenge. One so worth attacking. Ready when you are (either way). :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2008, 05:12:45 PM
Found the qoute.
“The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction in her that doesn't go away and it comes out in the wrong way.” -- Sen. Barack Obama, making the racial stereotype that all white people are guilty of racial stereotyping.

Heard someone say that even Jesse Jackson admitted to when alone on the street at night and hears footsteps feels relief to see it is a white person. Don't know if it's true he said that but if it is it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 05:20:24 PM
Heard someone say that even Jesse Jackson admitted to when alone on the street at night and hears footsteps feels relief to see it is a white person. Don't know if it's true he said that but if it is it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life.

Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson that he isn't sure is true but if it is he knows, for certain, that Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.

This is not even remotely approaching a sensible argument. Sorry.

Carry on.  :salute :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 21, 2008, 05:33:36 PM
Arlo, you dispute these widely published, sometimes by Obama himself, facts?

Close friend of Wright for 20 years; Wright as racist as Farrakhan, Obama endorsed by Farrakhan.

Named most liberal Senator by National Journal in 2007 (How they figured the rating: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/methodology.htm)

Close associate of Tony Resko, shady real estate deal, lied about Resko contributions to campaign.

Product of the Chicago Democratic machine

Lack of any real platform other than "change we can believe in"

Missed 208 of 1171 votes (18%) since Jan 6, 2005

Past cocaine user (admitted in his book)


What part of that sounds like anything other than the normal lying politician?

What have you seen that makes him seem like anything other than a normal lying politician?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 21, 2008, 05:40:25 PM
Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson

Case in point, the quote is in US News and World Report, 3/10/96

Quote
Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/960318/archive_010008.htm

Although I'm sure you'll dismiss it as an unreliable source.

Now, this part is inconvenient for you but all AKIron said was
Quote
it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life

He offered an opinion.

He certainly did NOT say
Quote
Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.

That would be you, putting words into his mouth, creating a strawman argument.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2008, 05:56:19 PM
Case in point: AKIron once heard something from someone about Reverend Jackson that he isn't sure is true but if it is he knows, for certain, that Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life.

This is not even remotely approaching a sensible argument. Sorry.

Carry on.  :salute :D

buzzzzzz buzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 06:07:13 PM
Arlo, you dispute these widely published, sometimes by Obama himself, facts?

Close friend of Wright for 20 years; Wright as racist as Farrakhan, Obama endorsed by Farrakhan.
Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.
Named most liberal Senator by National Journal in 2007 (How they figured the rating: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/methodology.htm)
An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.
Close associate of Tony Resko, shady real estate deal, lied about Resko contributions to campaign.
First, your source, it's reputation as well as rationalization over the Bush campaign financing/contributions being less racist and more properly done? Thank you.
Product of the Chicago Democratic machine
He's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist? Ummhmmm.
Lack of any real platform other than "change we can believe in"
Again, opinion. But if that's qualification for being a racist or dishonest then our current president is both in spades (ptp). ;)
Missed 208 of 1171 votes (18%) since Jan 6, 2005
And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?
Past cocaine user (admitted in his book)
And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism. Wait ... the current potus is a dishonest racist?
What part of that sounds like anything other than the normal lying politician?
What part of that sounds like anything but your rationalization behind your opinion? Use facts to define facts.
What have you seen that makes him seem like anything other than a normal lying politician?
I'm still forming my opinion. So far yours isn't affecting mine (and you may even be as convinced that such is an impossible task, especially if you're convinced the opinions you share have always been proven facts leading to an inescapable conclusion). Our opinions may never mirror. Our methods probably won't either. And both of us may feel a genuine gladness on that. I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another ... even if the one being pointed at had something to be ashamed of. I bet you're going to be surprised if this bit of "swiftboating" isn't as successful as the last and it actually ends up hoisted on it's own petard. *ShruG*
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 06:08:29 PM
buzzzzzz buzzzzzzz

Didn't like that one bit, I take? Feel free to point out the flaws. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2008, 06:20:49 PM
Didn't like that one bit, I take? Feel free to point out the flaws. :)

I think Toad did that more than adequately.

I'm still forming my opinion about Obama too btw. My opinion of him has gone from smart but far left socialist to not so smart far left socialist.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 06:39:03 PM
Now, this part is inconvenient for you but all AKIron said was

"it's a lot more honest than anything Obama has probably said in his entire life"

He offered an opinion.

He certainly did NOT say

"Senator Obama has probably been dishonest his entire life."

That would be you, putting words into his mouth, creating a strawman argument.

No, it wouldn't. It can't even be whined that the restructuring changed the meaning of what he wrote. The word "probably" even left the opinion there. He said that based on a story he heard (which he admitted not even knowing if it was true or not - whether or not Toad could find a source after-the-fact ) that Senator Obama was probably less honest than Rev. Jackson in terms of racial viewpoint his entire life. I've seen better derivation of opinion ... much more fact. Now what are you gonna do with it? It sure seems the stuff your "facts" are made up of. That's just my opinion, btw. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 06:40:19 PM
I think Toad did that more than adequately.

I'm still forming my opinion about Obama too btw. My opinion of him has gone from smart but far left socialist to not so smart far left socialist.

Which is fine. And if you weren't sharing insight on how you're forming/reforming it I might not of said a thing. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2008, 06:45:47 PM
No, it wouldn't. It can't even be whined that the restructuring changed the meaning of what he wrote. The word "probably" even left the opinion there. He said that based on a story he heard (which he admitted not even knowing if it was true or not - whether or not Toad could find a source after-the-fact ) that Senator Obama was probably less honest than Rev. Jackson in terms of racial viewpoint his entire life. I've seen better derivation of opinion ... much more fact. Now what are you gonna do with it? It sure seems the stuff your "facts" are made up of. That's just my opinion, btw. :)

I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. Oh well, you probably aren't the "typical white person" so Obama had still better be pretty worried.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 06:51:52 PM
I see reading comprehension isn't your forte. Oh well, you probably aren't the "typical white person" so Obama had still better be pretty worried.

"I see reading compehension isn't your forte" ain't the best rebuttal but if that's all you got ....

How about another rumor you once heard but aren't entirely sure about that probably means Senator Obama has a negative trait you want him to? Or doesn't have a positive one you don't want him to? :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: MiloMorai on March 21, 2008, 06:59:02 PM
Quote
Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion
Old saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 21, 2008, 07:00:04 PM
Old saying: where there is smoke there is usually fire.

New saying: Depends on who's blowing the smoke. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 21, 2008, 08:42:35 PM
. (translation - some things are better unsaid)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 21, 2008, 10:50:36 PM
Presumption of racism. Guilt by association. Neither of which can be called a fact so much as your gut feeling and opinion.

No, fact that he associates with a racist, has for 20 years, was married by the racist, had his children baptised by the racist, said something earlier along the lines of having the racist as an adviser.

Typical politician.


Quote
An opinion poll run by a political mag. Again, not a "fact" by any margin, my friend.

Didn't read the methodology, did you? "The most liberal senator" is an extreme position to be in. Literally. This is the man that can find the center and bring America together? The most extremely liberal Senator? Typical politician, pretending to be "mainstream" while truly occupying the extreme fringe.

Quote
Thank you.He's from Chicago and he's a Democrat (and black), therefore he *must* be a dishonest racist?

Nope, didn't say that. Said he's a product of the Chicago political machine. Name one truly stellar patriot that came from that organization. Daley Senior? Rostenkowski? Daley Junior? If you are not aware of the reputation of Chicago Democrats it's because you've chosen to ignore it.

 
Quote
And Mac has missed one out of three since January. Does this make him only slightly less racist or dishonest than Obama or does it somehow make them equally so?

You'll note I said nothing about racism in any of those points other than Wright. You keep bringing it up as a red herrring. After all, the easy dodge for anyone supporting Obama is to claim any and all opposition is racist. You're playing that as your only card. Missing votes is about missing votes. This is a politician interested in change, except he can't seem to vote on any because he's so busy. McCain is another red herring. I pointed out upthread that I view him as no better a choice than Obama. Neither will get my vote.

Quote
And we know we can't elect anyone who has ever had a substance abuse problem in the past because that leads to racism.

You really are a one-trick pony. Substance abuse is about... suprise... substance abuse. As I said, this is a typical lying politician. The drug use fits the profile.


 
Quote
I'll just never understand the overbearing pride some exhibit in their shameful methodology used to point out the shame of another

Then I guess you'll never understand yourself, will you? Review your use of the racist card in your recent reply and you're looking in the mirror.

What I said is he's a typical lying politician. I see no "change I can believe in".

Instead of tossing "racist, racist, racist" around because you can't think of any counter, I challenge you to counter my post.

Post the reasons why YOU think Obama is not just another lying politician. Give me some examples of "change I can believe in" that he's going to bring to the White House.

Go ahead; let's see what you're holding other than the racist cop-out card.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 21, 2008, 11:11:00 PM
Swift boating at its best, or worst.

Here is a politician who has given us the straight poop on race relations in this Country instead of sugar coating it for the masses and you guys are blind to it. No JBA I'm still a Hillary supporter. I still think She is a better choice than Obama. That doesn't mean he didn't make a brilliant speech. Unlike the all or nothing BS of most political discussions in here, liking someones speech is not mutually exlusive to supporting another candidate.

I bet many of you with parents who were raised in the 30's and 40's or even the 50's saw racist actions from them. I bet your father Toad heard the same remark my Dad used to say when something was easy "any 3 year old ni**er aviator could do it". It was a saying brought about by the introduction of the Tuskeegee Airmen. People of my fathers generation who served in the AAC in WW2 didn't bend over backwards to accept the Tuskeegee Airmen. Race relations didn't change just because a black man flew a plane. AND I still was proud to have my father there when I was married and when by children were born. He wasn't perfect, but he was still pretty damn great.

Race is complicated and devisive and when a man of some authority tries to explain it without pandering to the black and white of it I applaude him. He tried to treat us like adults. He has said over and over that he doesn't agree with the racist rants of his pastor, or Farakhan. Not sure what else you need to hear, but I'm sure it won't be enough.   
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 22, 2008, 08:03:27 AM
obama is a typical black person.

i don't know why you people reply to arlo, i just skip over his posts. Nothing to see there move along.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 22, 2008, 08:04:52 AM
obama is a typical black person.

i don't know why you people reply to arlo, i just skip over his posts. Nothing to see there move along.

Yeah ... move along. Ahem.  :eek:
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 22, 2008, 10:11:54 AM
mt.. I'm thinking that if I had such a grasp of race relations as you claim the half negro guy has.. and was,  as you and maybe he, claim..  above it.

Why then would I go to a racist church?  Why would I go to a church that blamed negros for every problem we had and said that America was damned?  Why would I marry a woman who hated all these years?  or at the least.. felt there was no hope?

Why would I surround myself.. no.. make the most important people in my life these people?

Flowery speech but even the liberals are saying he was tap dancing around the real issues.   We don't need him to explain race in America...

more than him.. we all live it every day.  We all know what race relations are in this country.

Billary got him good this time.  I told ya she would.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Tumor on March 22, 2008, 11:11:34 AM
 :rofl

........suckers.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Silat on March 22, 2008, 03:37:32 PM
Not quite the nutjobs the Reps court and let control the party. Why are you giving McLobby a pass?
Hagee
Roberts
Falwell (deceased)
Etc......
Some notable quotes from a Christian thug. Jerry Falwell a man revered by the rep party and courted by is candidates. A man who spoke softly of hate. LOL
      “I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed”
      “Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”
      “AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”
      “Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America”
      “The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country”
      “If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being”
      “Textbooks are Soviet propaganda”
      “The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews”
 
      “It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening”


 

Homosexuality is Satan's diabolical attack upon the family that will not only have a corrupting influence upon our next generation, but it will also bring down the wrath of God upon America.”
“God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve”
“(re: 9/11 attacks) "...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."
“[homosexuals are] brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”

                   
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 22, 2008, 03:54:18 PM
silat, does your post mean obama is not a racist or that it doesnt matter if he is a racist?

or is obama a typical black person?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 22, 2008, 04:02:15 PM
Silat, did McCain got to Falwell's church for 20 years? Or even once?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 22, 2008, 10:14:12 PM
Swift boating at its best, or worst.

Explain to be what swift boating is and how its dishonest. I don't know that swift boating is dishonest, but I get that implication. How is swift boating wrong? See, I felt it unusual that Sen Kerry had all this film of himself being a hero. Most people who do heroic things don't have a camera handy. If swift boating isn't just a buzz phrase, explain to me exactly how people who served with Kerry giving their side of events,is devious. You didn't find it weird he had a camera rolling when he supposedly risking his life? I'd have been thinking about staying alive - not camera angles.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 22, 2008, 10:18:36 PM
No one in the media ever justified Jerry Falwell. They ARE justifying Wright. You see a contradiction here, Silat? I really doubt you do.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 22, 2008, 10:42:49 PM
Explain to be what swift boating is and how its dishonest. I don't know that swift boating is dishonest, but I get that implication. How is swift boating wrong? See, I felt it unusual that Sen Kerry had all this film of himself being a hero. Most people who do heroic things don't have a camera handy. 

Well now, wasn't it all about proving he was less of a hero than George or that George was more of one? Don't you think George woulda taken quite a few pics if he'd gone to `Nam instead of serving in the TANG (kinda)? He still had a pic or two but not that many. And he sure didn't miss out on a photo op in a flightsuit or field jacket his first term in office. Mission accomplished. He wasn't there all that much in `Nam though (or really there serving with the TANG that much - missed out on some more photo ops there). But the "swiftboating campaign" sure went after Kerry's actual combat service in `Nam. And yaknow, I served with more than one fellow vet that spent time there and they sure seemed to have lots of pics. You'd have thunk they thought everyday they made it to there was pretty special.  :salute :cool:
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 09:25:22 AM
Maybe someone can explain how publishing Obama's actual quotes is "swiftboating"?

Quote
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” –Barack H. Obama, March 14, 2008



Quote
“Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.”
Barack H. Obama, March 18, 2007

Is calling a liar a liar swiftboating? Oh... wait... I know! Calling a liar a liar is racist if the liar happens to be black! I understand now!

Bottom line is what I've said on this BBS: he's a typical lying politician. That's no change and you can believe in it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 23, 2008, 09:34:49 AM
How could he not know how his wife feels about America?  Is now gonna give a speech on how this is the first he knew of her disgust with America?

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 23, 2008, 09:38:40 AM
He didn't hear the sermons posted on You-Tube, but he did hear him (Wright) make controversial statements. Swiftboating is the act of spinning something into something else. Like taking a factual statement and spinning into "liar".

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 09:48:31 AM
Maybe someone can explain how publishing Obama's actual quotes is "swiftboating"?


I understand now!


No you don't and apparently you never have ... or will.

Because, contrary to you fierce belief otherwise, those two statements aren't contrary. Your desire, alone, doesn't add or detract enough from Senator Obama's quoted statements to make your perception unclouded by your bias. You "facts" leave much to be desired.

Anyway .... you're on a full-bore blind-drive on this. Any response short of cheering your beserker rage on is gonna just either hurt your feelings or infurate you. And I know I don't want you condemning me for having less positive influence on the AH bulletin board community than you're presently having, regarding this topic.

Carry on and good luck with winning by any means necessary.  :salute
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 09:57:57 AM
Another red herring?

First he says he wasn't in church when these things were said and then he says he was in church when these things were said.

That's a lie, mate. No spin, simple fact.


From ABC:

Quote
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

An interesting sidenote is that ABC and Fox both bought their tapes from the website of Trinity Church. It was a best of  Pastor Wright collection. So all these comments about whitey and America are considered the best of his work by Wright and the church. Now that's "swiftboating"? Show clips from Wright's own "best of the Rev" series is some how deceitful?

Why do people stay in churches for 20 years? Because they think the pastor is a nutjob? Nope, it's because they agree with the pastor's philosophy. If they think the pastor is off the deep end, they leave. Happens every Sunday all across America. Not only did Obama stay at Wright's church, he made it his number one charity, giving over $20,000 when he was financially able. To pretend he did not support Wright is ludicrous.

Obama has said Wright isn't/wasn't an advisor to his campaign. Presumably he means this Presidential campaign because when he won his Senate seat in 2004.

Quote
Thank you, Illinois. Let me begin by thanking all of the people who have been involved in this effort. From downstate to upstate, city, suburb, from every community throughout the state. Let me say how grateful I am to all of you for the extraordinary privilege of standing here this evening. Let me thank, because I will forget later on, it is a thankless task, let me thank the best political staff that there has been put together in this state. They are wonderful. You know who you are. You guys have been outstanding. I appreciate all of you. Let me thank my pastor Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. of Trinity United church of Christ.


Wright comes pretty early in the thanking for a guy that isn't an advisor but it's possible he wasn't. To pretend that Obama didn't realize what venom, hate and racism Wright was spewing for 20 years is simply beyond credibility however.

Quick, somebody whip out the racist card and slap it on me.

As I also said in the other thread, black, green, yellow, white, red, pink or purple, he's just another lying politician that is way too liberal on too many important issued to garner any consideration at all from me.


 

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 10:04:29 AM
Because, contrary to you fierce belief otherwise, those two statements aren't contrary.

Well, old blue, tree that coon.

Educate me. Show me how those statements aren't contrary without sounding like a lieing lawyer yourself.

Oh, wait... you only offer challenges. You don't accept them.  :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 10:11:49 AM
Well, old blue, tree that coon.

Educate me. Show me how those statements aren't contrary without sounding like a lieing lawyer yourself.

Oh, wait... you only offer challenges. You don't accept them.  :rofl

I think you were too busy shaking at the keyboard and foaming at the mouth to see it in MT's reponse:

"He didn't hear the sermons posted on You-Tube, but he did hear him (Wright) make controversial statements. Swiftboating is the act of spinning something into something else. Like taking a factual statement and spinning into 'liar'."

It's pretty adequate. So I'll use it. Besides, I think you also missed the "subtle" hint I left you that I'm gonna let you spin til you eventually wind down on your own now. If that's possible. It just doesn't serve a purpose to test any other theory.

Again, have fun stormin' the castle. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 23, 2008, 10:13:47 AM
sooooo.. if us white guys belonged to a church where the pastor was cursing America and ranting on and on about how the negro was destroying the country and generally making life unpleasant for us poor white folk...

And we didn't happen to be there those times.. do ya think.....

Do ya think we might get informed of such goings on by some of the other people we know who attend?

But..  let's get this out in the open.. If it can be proved that the half negro guy was in church when these sermons were going on.. and he just sat and nodded and smiled....

would you then admit something was wrong?

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 10:25:01 AM
Why, Laz... what a racist post!  :lol

Well, Arlo, I expected nothing and you offered nothing.

Your attempt to deflect the discussion on to me being all wound up is noted. I will particpate in as many threads as I choose to particpate in and post as much as I like, thanks. As for being wound up, I at least seem to be able to frame cogent arguments, offer support and come to conclusions that I am not afraid to post. If that's shaking my keyboard and foaming at the mouth to you, then it merely means I have been successful with my arguments because you have nothing on which to base a rational reply.

It's pretty easy for the rest of the board to see who's doing the shucking and jiving when you reply to anyone on this board. I saw a brief moment there when you actually replied with substance to BTW (IIRC) but obviously the strain was too much for you and you reverted to your previous modus operandi.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 23, 2008, 10:31:31 AM
toad.. let me get this straight..  I must not be getting the whole reading comprehension thing but....

are you saying that arlo is just posting drivel without any substance?

now that I look at it..  I think you are right!   I can't find a single post of substance of his..  what a shocker.

At first I thought it had to do with jon stewart and the writers strike but it seems that, looking back, he never really had a thing to say in any case.

weird.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 10:32:31 AM
Why, Laz... what a racist post!  :lol

Well, Arlo, I expected nothing and you offered nothing.

Your attempt to deflect the discussion on to me being all wound up is noted. I will particpate in as many threads as I choose to particpate in and post as much as I like, thanks. (snip the extraneous pizzy pants part)

Glad your expectations were met. You're welcome. Good for you. Carry on.  Do I really have to keep responding to this stuff? What? Not really? Ok. :salute :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 10:34:19 AM
Then don't. You never have anything of substance to add to any thread in any case.

G'day!
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 23, 2008, 11:01:19 AM


Arlo, forgive me, but you are a purely defensive verbal swordsman.  Parry and thrust.  That is all you do.

This is all well and good.  It is vaguely amusing to read, but one can't help but notice that Arlo doesn't attempt to persuade others with his own political assertions.  We know Arlo only by inference - what he doesn't attack with sarcastic quips. 

Anyway, I deplore the drive-by way of expressing one's views on a forum like this.  Barbed attacks with a minimum of typing... weave in a little irony or pseudo-irony, and you are done.  It doesn't cut it.



 

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 11:09:46 AM

Arlo, forgive me, but you are a purely defensive verbal swordsman.  Parry and thrust.  That is all you do.

This is all well and good.  It is vaguely amusing to read, but one can't help but notice that Arlo doesn't attempt to persuade others with his own political assertions.  We know Arlo only by inference - what he doesn't attack with sarcastic quips. 

Anyway, I deplore the drive-by way of expressing one's views on a forum like this.  Barbed attacks with a minimum of typing... weave in a little irony or pseudo-irony, and you are done.  It doesn't cut it.

Cut what? I'm not on a political crusade on the AHBB. I don't have any mud loaded. I don't have an agenda. I don't have an ulterior motive in my words. That being the case, who made up the rule that those who do are immune from comment or critisism from those who don't, whether up to their expressed "standards" or not?

 But ... on a side note ... now that I'm back in the game and have my hands full with my leisure hours now being actively devoted to actually playing the game again, what other time I may feel inclined to actively participate in matters contributing to making my enviroment, my country and my fellow citizen's lives better are better spent elswhere that the AHBB.  :salute :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 23, 2008, 11:14:20 AM
Cut what? I'm not on a political crusade on the AHBB. I don't have any mud loaded. I don't have an agenda. I don't have an ulterior motive in my words. That being the case, who made up the rule that those who do are immune from comment or critisism from those who don't, whether up to their expressed "standards" or not?

 But ... on a side note ... now that I'm back in the game and have my hands full with my leisure hours now being actively devoted to actually playing the game again, what other time I may feel inclined to actively participate in matters contributing to making my enviroment, my country and my fellow citizen's lives better are better spent elswhere that the AHBB.  :salute :D

Don't go away mad....

Public forums like this make it easy to forget we are communicating with individuals rather than entertaining an audience. While I think both may be done here they are often mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Gunthr on March 23, 2008, 11:16:39 AM
well, alrighty then   :) :salute
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 11:24:00 AM
Don't go away mad....

Public forums like this make it easy to forget we are communicating with individuals rather than entertaining an audience. While I think both may be done here they are often mutually exclusive.

Hmmm ... while I may have gotten mad at least a couple dozen times in my four and a half decades on this rock, I don't think anything that's ever happened on this forum ever made the cut. If anything just the opposite. And I've always been aware how much a stage a forum can become. Even when I wasn't taking center (or even pretending to tell myself I have). Nothing exchanged in a forum is ever private. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2008, 11:24:34 AM
well, alrighty then   :) :salute

See you up. Easy pickin's here ... for now. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 23, 2008, 11:36:47 AM
Well now, wasn't it all about proving he was less of a hero than George or that George was more of one? Don't you think George woulda taken quite a few pics if he'd gone to `Nam instead of serving in the TANG (kinda)? He still had a pic or two but not that many. And he sure didn't miss out on a photo op in a flightsuit or field jacket his first term in office. Mission accomplished. He wasn't there all that much in `Nam though (or really there serving with the TANG that much - missed out on some more photo ops there). But the "swiftboating campaign" sure went after Kerry's actual combat service in `Nam. And yaknow, I served with more than one fellow vet that spent time there and they sure seemed to have lots of pics. You'd have thunk they thought everyday they made it to there was pretty special.  :salute :cool:

Kerry didn't have snapshots, Arlo, he had movies. I found that very unusual. Maybe I'm wrong, but I felt it was a "film me doing something heroic"  moment. Also, Kerry started challenging people's patriotism and heroism in 1971 - long before the swift boat revelations challenged his. But you are exactly right. This Wright revelation is exactly like the swift boat revelations. That's not a bad thing. Its simply when truth pierces a media generated facade. Its healthy for the country to see truth, as the media tends to obscure the truth to fit an agenda. As one journalist wrote, they tend to smash everything through the same stencil, oblivious of any nuances.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 23, 2008, 11:46:13 AM
He was hanged alright but it was by his own hand. What do you think this new pator of Obama's church is trying to accomplish? Rally the black people to rise up against oppression or instill more white guilt? He might succeed in the former but the only ones who will sympathize are politicians and actors. Of course their sympathy will be for the camera only. Calling this a "lynching" when everyone can see for themselves exactly what has been said and done only desensitizes people to legitimate "lynchings".

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/23/in-eastor-sermon-trinity-united-pastor-compares-rev-wright-to-jesus/
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 11:53:46 AM
I don't have an agenda.

Well of course you do! You're here to look into the mirror and ask "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the cleverest poster of all?" And you love it when your reflected image answers you with "Arlo!"

No one here is above criticism. I think everyone sees this as a place to exchange ideas and have their beliefs challenged. After all, that is how one progresses on a personal level. The expectation is that those that criticize will also state their views. It's how discussion/debate happens. I doubt anyone here thinks these threads will have any effect in the grand scheme of things. The threads are for personal enjoyment and gain and I think most realize that.

You participate in half of the of the BBS. You're quick to criticize. Other than that, you're a null and add nothing.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 11:58:15 AM
He was hanged alright but it was by his own hand. What do you think this new pator of Obama's church is trying to accomplish?

I think Rev. Otis Moss III is trying to accomplish what Pat Buchanan illustrates in this piece:

"A Brief For Whitey"  http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969

Of course, Buchanan will be tarred as a racist for presenting an opinion that questions Obama's non-racist speech on racism.

 :lol
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 23, 2008, 12:12:36 PM
Another red herring?

First he says he wasn't in church when these things were said and then he says he was in church when these things were said.

That's a lie, mate. No spin, simple fact.




That is NOT what was said. Simple spin... no fact.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 12:26:10 PM
Well, MT, the quotes are posted.

I don't see how anyone can not see that as a lie. I suppose a Harvard trained lawyer might try to make the case that he didn't lie with those two quotes.

I suppose it is on a par with Clinton's "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."  Or perhaps the old "I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman" baloney. Ask your wife if a BJ is having sexual relations; she'll clarify it for you.

The more we accept and excuse this sort of dishonesty, the more we get.

You defense of this is a fig leaf, easily seen around.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: bj229r on March 23, 2008, 12:27:51 PM
His first statement of the matter was that he had never personally heard any of the REALLY bad things were said  (apparently this was deemed implausible by his critics)---a day or 2 later, he allowed that he had heard some "controversial things"
from his Philadelphia speech:
Quote
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely — just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
He's dealing with this the way any typical politician would--deny..deny...deny...then admit the bare minimum. Is this "Change"?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 12:29:54 PM
He's dealing with this the way any typical politician would--deny..deny...deny...then admit the bare minimum. Is this "Change"?

Nope. So far no one here has been able to list any "change we can believe in" that Prez Obama would bring us. If  you look at his website and read his positions, it's the same-old same-old left wing of the Democratic party drivel.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 23, 2008, 02:07:07 PM
"A Brief For Whitey"  http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969

shack!

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 23, 2008, 06:36:52 PM
Well, MT, the quotes are posted.

I don't see how anyone can not see that as a lie. I suppose a Harvard trained lawyer might try to make the case that he didn't lie with those two quotes.

I suppose it is on a par with Clinton's "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."  Or perhaps the old "I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman" baloney. Ask your wife if a BJ is having sexual relations; she'll clarify it for you.

The more we accept and excuse this sort of dishonesty, the more we get.

You defense of this is a fig leaf, easily seen around.

And you seem to be enjoying the ssensation of fingers in your ears as you go "lalalalalalala". The quotes are posted. Maybe you should read them again.

Let me help:

Quote
“The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation,” –Barack H. Obama, March 14, 2008



Quote
“Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes.”
Barack H. Obama, March 18, 2007


Clear as day. No stretch needed for that one.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 23, 2008, 07:27:13 PM
 :lol

Well, keep that mindset. You'll be getting more of this Harvard truth telling. We don't call these guys on it, they think we really are stupid enough to believe it.

This one ranks right up there with "I did not have sexual relations with that woman because a BJ is not sexual relations."

If you can <cough> swallow that one, you can swallow anything I guess.... as we've just seen.



Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 24, 2008, 08:16:51 AM
yep.. can't tell osamabama from ted kennedy if you just read em...

as for "having a conversation about race in this country"  same old same old one way crap where anything a white guy says is "racially motivated" but anything a negro says is excused because of "350 years of slavery"

seems the odds are..  if a white guy can avoid a negro he is better off..   less likely to hear whining and be blamed.. less likely to be the target of crime.. less likely to be called names.. more likely to have a fair shot at a job...more likely to have a better school....

Why do we need to be nagged and made to feel guilty while being assaulted and blamed again?

All liberals are the same.. their idea of bringing people together is to get everyone to do as they say.

I don't even care what color this guy says he is..   I just hope we are not ready for such a liberal socialist shyster.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Jackal1 on March 24, 2008, 08:30:20 AM
And you seem to be enjoying the ssensation of fingers in your ears as you go "lalalalalalala". The quotes are posted. Maybe you should read them again.


I think you are the one who might want to have a second look.  :rofl
Nobody is that lame.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 24, 2008, 08:33:27 AM
I don't know jackal..  mt was sagely nodding his head when klinton was saying "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is."   I don't think he has any trouble at all excusing the half negro guy.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 24, 2008, 10:41:03 AM
Whether or not Obama personally heard Wright say the most vile comments is immaterial. His reason for stating that he personally never heard such vile statements was to assure people it wasn't common, that it was some type of aberration. Well that's not the case. The anti-American and Black Liberation theme permeates the church, and that's evident from the crowd reactions and even from the latest Easter "sermon." Calling the quest for truth a "lynching" is nothing but Black Liberation rhetoric, race baiting rhetoric. IMO, Obama was not being honest and in fact lying by omission in his first statements. And there is the fact that he subscribes to Black Liberation Theology, a racist, ant-American theology. That fact alone should disqualify him. As far as I'm concerned , it does.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 24, 2008, 11:17:39 AM
I don't know jackal..  mt was sagely nodding his head when klinton was saying "it depends on what the meaning of "is" is."   I don't think he has any trouble at all excusing the half negro guy.

lazs

Maybe you and your pal spanky in the sidecar might want to explain how those 2 statements eqaul a lie. And here all this time I was under the impression that English was your 1st language.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 11:51:33 AM
You fig leaf is that Obama says he didn't hear the exact statements that were aired repeatedly on the various news programs? Just that he heard similar statements at other times? Do I have that right?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: GtoRA2 on March 24, 2008, 11:52:09 AM
Well of course you do! You're here to look into the mirror and ask "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the cleverest poster of all?" And you love it when your reflected image answers you with "Arlo!"

No one here is above criticism. I think everyone sees this as a place to exchange ideas and have their beliefs challenged. After all, that is how one progresses on a personal level. The expectation is that those that criticize will also state their views. It's how discussion/debate happens. I doubt anyone here thinks these threads will have any effect in the grand scheme of things. The threads are for personal enjoyment and gain and I think most realize that.

You participate in half of the of the BBS. You're quick to criticize. Other than that, you're a null and add nothing.


I think you hit the nail on the head.

I can't say I have seen arlo add anything to a recent discussion.   Sadly he is who comes to mind for me for the ignore thread, not because he if offensive or anything, but I get tired of scroll past page after page of his nonsense to get to people who contribute to the discussion.
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: MiloMorai on March 24, 2008, 04:15:16 PM
Fox News and Obama may owe Reverend Wright an apology
March 24, 2008

If African American slave descendents born in the United States (U.S.) are not legal U.S. citizens then Fox News, Barack Obama, and others who have vehemently criticized Reverend Jeremiah Wright of Trinity United Church of Christ for his comments may owe him a big apology. If these Americans are legal U.S. citizens, the Bush administration and Barack Obama owe black ministers like Reverend Harris of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) a response to that question. Criticizing Reverend Wright while failing to respond to Reverend Harris raises questions. The Bush Administration and other leaders, failed to respond to Reverend Harris, officer of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) and Ellen Dunn, President of African Americans for the Rule of Law (AAROL), when asked to confirm African Americans’ rights to citizenship. If African Americans are not legal U.S. citizens, then there are major issues under international law to be addressed. The issue is important under globalization and should not be swept under the rug and suppressed.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 24, 2008, 06:29:21 PM
Maybe you and your pal spanky in the sidecar might want to explain how those 2 statements eqaul a lie. And here all this time I was under the impression that English was your 1st language.

In your face Laz, you got roasted. How are you gonna respond?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 24, 2008, 06:32:01 PM
You fig leaf is that Obama says he didn't hear the exact statements that were aired repeatedly on the various news programs? Just that he heard similar statements at other times? Do I have that right?

You are basically correct. I'm glad you understand and I accept your apology.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Eagler on March 24, 2008, 06:44:47 PM
In your face Laz, you got roasted. How are you gonna respond?

twit
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 24, 2008, 06:47:52 PM
twit

Trick
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 07:08:51 PM
You are basically correct. I'm glad you understand and I accept your apology.

Two issues:

First, the obvious one: if you make the case that Obama is somehow differentiating between the broadcast statements made by Wright while Obama may or not have been in attendance at Trinity and other quite similar ones he actually heard while in the pew, that is called quibbling.

Perhaps this will help:

Quote
quib·ble (kwbl)
intr.v. quib·bled, quib·bling, quib·bles
1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.

In short, if he quibbled, he lied.

Mark Steyn, an astute Canadian observer of the American scene puts it succintly:

Quote
Obama listened to Wright's bilge week in, week out his entire adult life and by the end was giving this huckster over 20 grand a year to keep him in business. It seems reasonable to assume, given some of her observations on the hustings, that Mrs Obama agrees with the broad thrust of Jeremiah Wright's "theology". Does her husband?

Derb wondered the other day whether the Obama campaign was a massive "con job". But it's worse than that. If he were a con artist, he'd be like every other opportunist pol contemplating a run for the presidency: he'd be slick enough to know from the get-go that the Reverend Wright was a guy he needed to keep at way beyond arm's length; instead, he named his big pre-campaign hey-world-here-I-am book after one of his sermons. That suggests Obama didn't even appreciate Wright was a potential problem. Which, in turn, suggests a candidate as disconnected from reality as his pastor is.

Wait... let me guess.... Steyn is a Canadian racist?  :rofl


Second, if you accept that quibbling as your fig leaf (and it appears that you do) then you are saying you have no interest in the truth. That plays into the hands of the politicians so many of us are sick of seeing on the national stage.

If we do not hold them accountable, we will get more of this baloney from both sides of the political spectrum. We either demand better government or we take the krap they deign to give us.

It is our call.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 07:47:27 PM
Old Barack/New Barack from Mark Steyn

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmNkYTE5NmE0NmExODg1YWY1ZDM5OGQ1NDhlYjFmMzg=

Listen to the inspiring speech on youtube and then consider his view of Wright's words. Just another lying Chicago pol.


Old Barack: Just words? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cd-AJeJvBE

Don’t tell me words don’t matter.

‘I have a dream.’ Just words?

‘We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.’ Just words?

‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself.’ Just words? Just speeches?





New Barack:

'Golly-geen America.' Just words.

'US government created Aids, supplied drugs to our community.' Just words.

'US of KKKA.' Just words.

'What we are doing is the same thing al-Qaeda is doing.' Just words.

'Until now, I was never proud of my country.' Just words from my wife.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 24, 2008, 08:03:51 PM
Old Barack/New Barack from Mark Steyn

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmNkYTE5NmE0NmExODg1YWY1ZDM5OGQ1NDhlYjFmMzg=


I quit reading your post as soon as you quoted something from The National Review. If you want to make a point, cite a source that has some integrity.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 08:22:27 PM
Indeed. Close your mind.

Mark Steyn is a funny astute commentator on the American scene. Doesn't matter where he's published, his stuff is accurate, insightful and entertaining.

But go ahead, show that famous liberal talent, gained at the university, of being willing to listen to all sides of an argument before you make up your mind.  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 24, 2008, 08:45:01 PM
I quit reading your post as soon as you quoted something from The National Review. If you want to make a point, cite a source that has some integrity.

Sounds like someone who bookmarks the Huffington Post. She's a bitter woman - "damn you Michael!"
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 24, 2008, 08:52:40 PM
Indeed. Close your mind.

Mark Steyn is a funny astute commentator on the American scene. Doesn't matter where he's published, his stuff is accurate, insightful and entertaining.

But go ahead, show that famous liberal talent, gained at the university, of being willing to listen to all sides of an argument before you make up your mind.  :aok

Sources are important. Why would I fully trust a source that is built upon a conservative agenda or even one built on a liberal one. I want a source that attempts to give an accurate portrayal of the "truth" without a biased view. The National Review is not my idea of an unbiased view of the "truth". Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 08:56:46 PM
Well, if it makes you feel better, you can read Mark Steyn at his own website.  :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: MiloMorai on March 24, 2008, 09:00:37 PM
Sources are important. Why would I fully trust a source that is built upon a conservative agenda or even one built on a liberal one. I want a source that attempts to give an accurate portrayal of the "truth" without a biased view. The National Review is not my idea of an unbiased view of the "truth". Just my 2 cents.
Is there such a source?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 09:02:58 PM
Well, sure, Milo. No liberal source is biased. For example, Moveon.org gives the pure, unvarnished truth all the time.

You didn't know that?

The basic rule for both sides is "If the source agrees with me it is unbiased. If the source is in disagreement with me, it is biased. I only read sources that agree with me to get the unbiased truth."

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: rpm on March 24, 2008, 09:09:06 PM
It's sad. Here is a candidate that has never played the race card, done everything he can to heal racial wounds, yet all the racists are coming out of the woodwork to call him one. I guess all the white guys that have ever watched Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart or (pick your favorite evangelical) are lying, racist hypocites because they watched. Sad I tell you, just plain sad.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 09:19:17 PM
So Wright's rants are just words then? Words don't matter?

I'm so confused!

“Don’t tell me words don’t matter,” Mr. Obama said.

I thought Obama said words did matter?

Or is it that Wright's racist rants don't matter because black people can't be racist?

Please note that I haven't called Obama a racist. I doubt he his. Hypocrite? Sure. Racist? Nah.

Not even Steyn thinks Obama is a racist; he thinks he's just "candidate as disconnected from reality as his pastor is" for not realizing he had to distance himself from a racist like Wright.

But hey... play the race card. It's the only shield Obama has for his stupidity and it suffices for those than can't see around the fig leaf.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 24, 2008, 09:22:23 PM
It's sad. Here is a candidate that has never played the race card, done everything he can to heal racial wounds, yet all the racists are coming out of the woodwork to call him one. I guess all the white guys that have ever watched Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart or (pick your favorite evangelical) are lying, racist hypocites because they watched. Sad I tell you, just plain sad.

Sorry RPM but gouging us tax payers for ever more money to throw away on worthless social programs is hardly doing something to heal racial wounds, quite the contrary.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: rpm on March 24, 2008, 09:23:31 PM
Remind me Toad, because I forget so quickly, what office is Rev. Wright running for?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 24, 2008, 09:24:28 PM
I think the democrats are just getting started with the mud slinging, at each other. This is about to get good.  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 24, 2008, 09:30:05 PM
Remind me RPM, what sort of judgement does listening to Wright's bilge week in, week out his entire adult life and giving this huckster over 20 grand a year to keep him in business show?

The kind you want in a uniting President? I bet he picked up a lot of tips on uniting black and white America from Wright over the last 20 years eh?   :rofl  The trick in bringing us all together is to damn America!

Truth time RPM: If a white candidate had this exact relationship with a white America-hating racist preacher do you think the negative reaction would be more, less or the same?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 24, 2008, 10:38:42 PM
Remind me Toad, because I forget so quickly, what office is Rev. Wright running for?

Rev Wright is MIA. Obviously he isn't running for anything. His part is so eloquently demonstrating Black Liberation Theology rhetoric. That is the theology - Black Liberation Theology -that Obama subscribes to. Before you vote for that man to be President of the United States, you need to familiarize yourself with Black Liberation Theology. Its  racist, Marxist, anti-American, and centered in Latin America. Understand the theology of the man you are voting for. Understand the roots of Black Liberation Theology. It doesn't originate from where you might suspect. You need to look into it before blithely dismissing Wright's comments or ignoring Obama's participation in that church.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 25, 2008, 02:04:46 AM
Is there such a source?

You're right there isn't one. But some come pretty close in my book i.e. (BBC, Reuters, AP, CNN, sometimes FOX).
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 25, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Good piece by Krauthammer in the paper today; goes to the actual point of the discussion. Why didn't he leave Trinity? I'm sure some will play the race card on it but I don't see how.

http://www.kansascity.com/273/story/544811.html

Quote
Obama failed to say why he never left that church

....Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: “There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?”

But that is not the question. The question is why didn’t he leave that church? Why didn’t he leave — why doesn’t he leave even today — a pastor who thundered not once but three times from the pulpit (on a DVD the church proudly sells) “Golly-geen America”?

His defense rests on two central propositions: (a) moral equivalence, and (b) white guilt....

....Does Obama not see the moral difference between the occasional private expression of the prejudices of one’s time and the use of a public stage to spread racial lies and race hatred?...

....Then answer this, senator: If Wright is a man of the past, why would you expose your children to his vitriolic divisiveness?

Why did you give $22,500 just two years ago to a church run by a man of the past who infects the younger generation with precisely the racial attitudes and animus you say you have come unto us to transcend?


Good questions; too bad Obama didn't address and answer those in his speech.



Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: midnight Target on March 25, 2008, 10:46:44 AM
Good piece by Krauthammer in the paper today; goes to the actual point of the discussion. Why didn't he leave Trinity? I'm sure some will play the race card on it but I don't see how.

http://www.kansascity.com/273/story/544811.html

Good questions; too bad Obama didn't address and answer those in his speech.





Of course he did address them, but just like most swiftboating, saying he didn't will be more than enough evidence for the sheeple who want to believe...

Quote
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 25, 2008, 10:52:45 AM
Did you bother to read the opinion piece?

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 25, 2008, 11:14:53 AM
someone already said it but i must repeat it, obama and gang are "the klan with a tan".
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: JBA on March 25, 2008, 11:29:04 AM
Of course he did address them, but just like most swiftboating, saying he didn't will be more than enough evidence for the sheeple who want to believe...
Like hell he did. Accusing "Whitie" of being racist is not an explanation for your own racist actions. I said it before. Hussien Obama is politically "Dead man Walking" the super's will not give it to him. Hillbillary will show that she has won the larger electoral college states and there fore she "deserves" the "selection".
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Jackal1 on March 25, 2008, 11:46:17 AM
Maybe you and your pal spanky in the sidecar might want to explain how those 2 statements eqaul a lie.

I retract my earlier statement . Some , it seems, can be that lame.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 25, 2008, 02:35:02 PM
sooo.. mt an twentyfo... I guess you are saying that if it could be proven that osamabama was in church when some of those racist things were said or even.. that he knew they were said..  that he is knowingly attending a racist church?

Do you guys really think that this half negro guy is so stupid that he doesn't know that a church he has attended and praised.. for what? 20 years?  is a racist church?

I bet that no white guy would get such a pass if he was found to attend a racist..  wait.. strike that.. a WHITE racist church.

It is your type of racism that will keep racism alive in this country.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 25, 2008, 04:17:01 PM
sooo.. mt an twentyfo... I guess you are saying that if it could be proven that osamabama was in church when some of those racist things were said or even.. that he knew they were said..  that he is knowingly attending a racist church?

Do you guys really think that this half negro guy is so stupid that he doesn't know that a church he has attended and praised.. for what? 20 years?  is a racist church?

I bet that no white guy would get such a pass if he was found to attend a racist..  wait.. strike that.. a WHITE racist church.

It is your type of racism that will keep racism alive in this country.

lazs

Laz I didn't say anything really except that The National Review is not in mind a trustworthy news source. That's all I said.

Obama's church belongs to a wider network of churches, in which 95% are attended mainly by white followers. The church that Obama attends has a few white members, as well as frequent visitors (who are mostly white) from the other churches in the network. If I follow your rhetoric correctly, those white visitors and members are racist against themselves  :rofl :rofl.

I don't agree with what Obama's pastor said, but I feel deep down that Obama is a decent human being. He has been fresh air for politics and has run a very good campaign. To me this issue has been blown way overboard. I think we need to focus on larger issues that face our country, such as the war, economy, and health care among others. I think we all get caught up in the little things that we don't look at the larger picture.

On another note, I really despise evangelist churches. They are nothing but money hungry entities that suck the money out of their members. I can't stand to see Benny Hahn or TD Jakes flying around in corporate jets to preach "the word of the lord". To see them in their $4,000 suits talking about helping the poor irritates me. Why don't they sell their Armani suit to help out a person who is struggling to eat or have shelter. Religion to me has come off very corrupt and places values in the wrong areas.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 25, 2008, 06:22:45 PM
This just in from another untrustworthy news source!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/clinton.wright/

Clinton: Wright would not have been my pastor

Quote
Speaking to reporters Tuesday, Clinton referenced a speech she gave nearly a year ago after talk-radio host Don Imus' controversial remarks about the Rutgers women's basketball team.

"I said it was time for standing up for what is right, for saying enough is enough, for urging that we turn a culture of degradation into a culture of empowerment, for saying that while we of course must protect our right of free expression, it should not be used as a license or an excuse to demean or humiliate our fellow citizens. Sen. Obama spoke eloquently at that time as well," she said.

"Everyone will have to decide these matters for themselves. They were obviously very personal matters," Clinton added. "But I was asked what I would do if he was my pastor and I said I think the choice would be clear for me."


I think that will play well in Pennsylvania. It's going to be an interesting Dem convention. First time any convention will be interesting going in. Unless the SuperDelegates jump in and eliminate the other input.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Coshy on March 25, 2008, 06:32:51 PM
The dems are busy slinging mud each other that McCain wont have anything to sling around when the real election comes up.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 25, 2008, 07:02:08 PM
The mud is gettin' dirty. :aok

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/25/clinton-rev-wright-would-not-have-been-my-pastor/
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 25, 2008, 07:05:52 PM
Jesus take the wheel   :pray
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Bronk on March 25, 2008, 07:08:33 PM
This just in from another untrustworthy news source!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/clinton.wright/

Clinton: Wright would not have been my pastor

I think that will play well in Pennsylvania. It's going to be an interesting Dem convention. First time any convention will be interesting going in. Unless the SuperDelegates jump in and eliminate the other input.
Some are predicting the super delegates to seat AL Gore. :noid
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 25, 2008, 09:49:32 PM
I'd vote for Bozo over either of the Democrats. I really feel for good Democrats. You have a closet Marxist and a pathological liar. Way to go Dean.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 25, 2008, 10:05:36 PM
Some are predicting the super delegates to seat AL Gore. :noid

 :rofl
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 25, 2008, 10:14:38 PM
and a pathological liar.

Didn't seem to hurt Clinton, Bill any. Difference is that Hillary isn't the black candidate this time.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 27, 2008, 06:23:29 PM
Who here can prove Obama was sitting in the church or near the church when this minister made his statements?

It seems to make a difference in many of you peeps claims. How could he get up and leave if he wasn't there?
People tend to put an awful lot of stock in half-truths. I would assume some such peeps purchase products from infomercials.

2 cents. Just wondering


Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 27, 2008, 07:21:13 PM
Who here can prove Obama was sitting in the church or near the church when this minister made his statements?

It seems to make a difference in many of you peeps claims. How could he get up and leave if he wasn't there?
People tend to put an awful lot of stock in half-truths. I would assume some such peeps purchase products from infomercials.

2 cents. Just wondering

Could not have said it myself.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 27, 2008, 08:27:01 PM
Who here can prove Obama was sitting in the church or near the church when this minister made his statements?

It seems to make a difference in many of you peeps claims. How could he get up and leave if he wasn't there?
People tend to put an awful lot of stock in half-truths. I would assume some such peeps purchase products from infomercials.

2 cents. Just wondering



No one has to prove what sermons he attended. They just need to prove he attended a church that has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for 20 years. This leaves two possibilities. Obama sympathizes with Marxist and racist views or he is too dumb to recognize racist and Marxist views when they slap him in the face. It is without question this church taught Black Liberation Theology. If one wants to argue Black Liberation Theology is not Marxist or racist , they should go for it. They will lose that argument.
There is much evidence of its origin and purpose.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 27, 2008, 08:42:41 PM
No one has to prove anything. When it comes time to vote many will remember that Obama sat in the pews of this madman for 20 years. Nothing he can do or say will undo that.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lasersailor184 on March 27, 2008, 11:27:20 PM
Wow.  I just read Obama's website.  The things he is saying mirrors what Hitler said pretty closely.  I'm a little bit shocked.  He's not even subtle about it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 27, 2008, 11:31:16 PM
Wow.  I just read Obama's website.  The things he is saying mirrors what Hitler said pretty closely.  I'm a little bit shocked.  He's not even subtle about it.

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1072/1043801543_a876a19e11_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lasersailor184 on March 27, 2008, 11:35:09 PM
Err, his methods match Hitler's, not his goals.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 27, 2008, 11:41:00 PM
Err, his methods match Hitler's, not his goals.

Are you so sure about that?

To bad you didn't get a chance to read his Churches website before they changed it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 12:01:14 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hln2qFpWL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 28, 2008, 01:28:21 AM
new polls say if hillary is chosen 19% of obamas supporters will vote for McCain, and if obama is chosen 28% of hillarys supporters will vote for McCain, some democrats are hoping algore will take time off from saving the world to save the democratic party.  As of now Fla and Mich delegates will not be at the convention.

We live in interesting times.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:01:57 AM
No one has to prove what sermons he attended. They just need to prove he attended a church that has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for 20 years. This leaves two possibilities. Obama sympathizes with Marxist and racist views or he is too dumb to recognize racist and Marxist views when they slap him in the face. It is without question this church taught Black Liberation Theology. If one wants to argue Black Liberation Theology is not Marxist or racist , they should go for it. They will lose that argument.
There is much evidence of its origin and purpose.


BZZZZZZTTT!!! Wrong!

>*IF*<* which seems to be a massive word here. The minister preached these type of sermons ALL THE TIME on a regular basis is the only way your statement can stand. If it was the first time he did something like that, how would you then paint the picture?

There's a lot of grasping on things here that are no where near answered. Therefore claims and anttics are based on half-truths at best.

So lets move to question # 2

Who can prove or even "says" he made these type of sermons on a regular basis?

There's some apples and oranges here.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:02:55 AM
Wow.  I just read Obama's website.  The things he is saying mirrors what Hitler said pretty closely.  I'm a little bit shocked.  He's not even subtle about it.

Repeat after me "delusional" if that's to hard try "wishful thinking" :)

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 02:07:17 AM
If someone is unaware of what's going on in his own church, how is he going to know what's going on in the rest of the world?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:12:12 AM
Are you so sure about that?

To bad you didn't get a chance to read his Churches website before they changed it.

Me thinks people are choosing to see what they *want* to see.

I can rip countless wordings apart and come up with some real evil analogies. Doesn't mean I have a clue, I can make it *sound* like I do, but in the end game just means I pray 1 out of 5 will believe my tripe. And hope they pass it on to another weak minded soul. :)

None of the stuff posted here against Obama and his church have been proven in any form. Basically working on assumption, hear-say, mixed with a cynical agenda.

Come on folks, we're not missing half our brains, if we were we'd be in full agreement. <G> <S> :)


Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:15:11 AM
If someone is unaware of what's going on in his own church, how is he going to know what's going on in the rest of the world?

Report to me every day on what exactly, to the minute, is happening in your church.

If you can do this, you'll stand a chance of convincing me,...of something.

So far,.... the needle hasn't even moved.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:17:45 AM
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1072/1043801543_a876a19e11_o.jpg)

Repeat after me "Fixated" :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 02:20:10 AM
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear.  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 02:21:12 AM
Report to me every day on what exactly, to the minute, is happening in your church.

If you can do this, you'll stand a chance of convincing me,...of something.

So far,.... the needle hasn't even moved.

There must not be any women at your church if that's your best answer.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 02:22:53 AM
There must not be any women at your church if that's your best answer.

I kinda suspected your strongest stance was gossip all along. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 02:24:00 AM
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear.  :aok

I'm sure the Jews feared Hitler in the 1930's too.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 02:25:16 AM
I'm sure the Jews feared Hitler in the 1930's too.

I'm sure they'd fear you too. ;)  :aok
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:29:14 AM
There must not be any women at your church if that's your best answer.

Just remember to report to me or us. That's the task.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 02:30:44 AM
I would support Colin Powell 100% if he were running.  So you trying to peg me in the same category as your "frontrunner Democrat" is BS.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 02:32:43 AM
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear.  :aok

I'm so onboard with that.

BTW, Hiya Arlo <S> :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 04:18:05 AM
Hiya, Animal.  :salute :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 28, 2008, 10:20:07 AM
Hiya, Animal.  :salute :D
Oh, get a room..
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 28, 2008, 10:27:05 AM
Twenty-two pages of the same noise being used to reaffirm the same dozen poster's hopes and quench their fears that the Republican status quo isn't in danger of being interrupted. And it's centered on the frontrunner Democrat (black) candidate being a racist? The extremes some here are willing to go to to cling to that belief speaks volumes about how much this thread is really about fear.  :aok

You'll be hearing even more about Obama's pastor for 20 years if he wins the nomination. I'm betting the Rev. Wright has a few more sermons in his closet that will be exposed to the light of day. Won't surprise me a bit if someone in his congregation doesn't sell Obama out and link him to being present for one of these racist rants. It ain't over by a stretch yet.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 28, 2008, 10:33:57 AM

BZZZZZZTTT!!! Wrong!

>*IF*<* which seems to be a massive word here. The minister preached these type of sermons ALL THE TIME on a regular basis is the only way your statement can stand. If it was the first time he did something like that, how would you then paint the picture?

There's a lot of grasping on things here that are no where near answered. Therefore claims and anttics are based on half-truths at best.

So lets move to question # 2

Who can prove or even "says" he made these type of sermons on a regular basis?

There's some apples and oranges here.

Wright is the one who said he embraces Black Liberation Theology, and named his biblical mentors -Dwight Hopkins and James Cone. You can try to lie about it, but I don't think it will fly very far. Wright is on video stating this fact.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 28, 2008, 10:37:40 AM
What's funny is the continual red herring of racism being slapped about in Obama's name.

Obama hasn't been called a racist. Wright has been called and clearly is a racist.

The real issue, the one that is really at the heart of this, is why Obama would associate so closely with Wright for 20 years. When Obama's "Just Words" speech is compared to Obama's actions in relations to Wright's words, there is a major disconnect. The man who would unite us all and help us move forward into the grand, new era of race neutral American social relationships is a close associate of one of the very worst examples of racism from the religious pulpit?

Is this the example of Obama's "Change we can believe in" that we're all supposed to worship? Saying one thing and clearly doing the opposite?

Of course, for obvious reasons, that issue can't be addressed by Obama's supporters or by those who objectively  :rofl  find that anyone saying anything negative against Obama is a racist.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 28, 2008, 10:54:27 AM
LOL.. all I see is the ability of the left here to excuse what is clearly repugnant.   

If I belonged to a church that was say..  not racist the times I was there.. for what?  20 years?  and then the pastor, while I was away, made some really strange sermons.. blamed negros for all of the white races problems.. blamed the rainbow coalition for aids..  said GD America..  all that...

Do ya think that I might... might... hear about it from some of my fellow churchgoers?   

Or are you so blinded by wishful thinking and excuses for one race that you can't see your hand in front of your face?

If you were married to a woman who thought there was never any hope in Americia.. that despite a life of privilidge and luxury.. that America was crushing hope..  would you stay with her and smile and nod your head or would you just leave her or... get her on some meds?

The whole thing speaks to a man with no spine of principals or.. one who shares the views of the people around him...

And.. I sure as hell don't like the people around him.

How do you explain it away to yourselves?  How do you excuse it?

Is it some liberal "gray" area again? 

I am laughing and disgusted at the same time..  the democrats are outed...

running a negro against a woman has caused them to be hoisted on their own petard in a most amusing and disgusting way.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Maverick on March 28, 2008, 11:13:06 AM
I have a question based on a reciprocal situation. I'm just going to use one white demo name here. I am not calling this person bigoted or racist, I'm just using their name for illustrative purposes.

If Kerry had attended a church for 20 years that had a pastor who was an avowed KKK and publicly claimed that pastor for a source of inspiration and a mentor would it be different?  How about if some of the sermons preaching hate for other races was aired and tapes of it were available?

Would this situation be a basis for questioning that politicians claim of non racism and bigotry?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 28, 2008, 11:28:53 AM
mav.. I think that some liberals here might excuse kerrie..  in the spirit of "the end justifies the means".

A better example would be if you used a Bush or McCain.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 01:02:36 PM
Guilt by association, that's interesting.

If this is the only straw righty fanatics can grasp I'd say they probably can't find much dirt on Obama. Ya went hunting for bear and brought home a rabbit. :)

Why would he quit the church? Doesn't make sense since the minister has retired and the very sermon all are wetting pants over was his last. It's very selective on what parts of the issue people want to converse about.

There's one thing about denial, you never know you're in it.

People are pretty witty on this subject, and say things that would fly IF you didn't know all the facts or missing half a brain. But there is very little common sense being used. Propaganda usually contains no common logic.

If this is all there is on Obama, I'd say he's a pretty clean guy. Since we have none of his personal actions to condemn we resort to what someone else did? That's grasping man. <G> When you folks come up with something Obama actually did himself, then lets talk. Otherwise this is truly a waste of time.

Ya just can't fix stupid.

<S>









Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 28, 2008, 01:31:51 PM
If this is all there is on Obama, I'd say he's a pretty clean guy. Since we have none of his personal actions to condemn we resort to what someone else did? That's grasping man. <G> When you folks come up with something Obama actually did himself, then lets talk. Otherwise this is truly a waste of time.

Ya just can't fix stupid.

<S>


you are blinded by the light of the messiah obama.

here, drink some more obama koolaid.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 28, 2008, 01:50:03 PM
It isn't "guilt by association". That's just another attempt to slip in the racist red herring.

The entire episode, from 20 years ago until now, calls into question Obama's judgement; actually, his lack of judgement.

The pretension that it was Wright's last sermon that is at issue is is also incorrect. The sermon about the US using nukes on Japan was given in 2001. The sermon dealing with damning America was given in 2003 and was the one where he charged the US government with inventing HIV to use against people of color.

You are right about denial though; you provide the best example of that statement so far in this thread.

I guess the other gratuitous general insults are added to show you do indeed know all the facts.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 01:53:33 PM
Oh, get a room..

Yours was full. We'll use the hallway. ;)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2008, 01:55:18 PM
You'll be hearing even more about Obama's pastor for 20 years if he wins the nomination.

I'm sure we'll never hear the end of it, even twenty years after Obama's presidency. *ShruG* Some conspiracy theories just go on and on ... and on ... and on and on. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 03:16:22 PM
What's funny is the continual red herring of racism being slapped about in Obama's name.

Obama hasn't been called a racist. Wright has been called and clearly is a racist.

The real issue, the one that is really at the heart of this, is why Obama would associate so closely with Wright for 20 years. When Obama's "Just Words" speech is compared to Obama's actions in relations to Wright's words, there is a major disconnect. The man who would unite us all and help us move forward into the grand, new era of race neutral American social relationships is a close associate of one of the very worst examples of racism from the religious pulpit?

Is this the example of Obama's "Change we can believe in" that we're all supposed to worship? Saying one thing and clearly doing the opposite?

Of course, for obvious reasons, that issue can't be addressed by Obama's supporters or by those who objectively  :rofl  find that anyone saying anything negative against Obama is a racist.



Well did Obama himself say it> Some speak as if he wrote the script for the minister without actually saying it. That's the smoke cloud that's being used and that's the part where some insist we are missing half our brains.

You guys ARE in fact using guilt by association in it's most elementary form.

You're blaming Obama for what someone else said, and that IS in fact stupid. McCain is a Bush cronie should we auto assume he will destroy the economy and war like Bush and his associates did, I mean it is guilt by association game we are playing here, without saying we are.

I can flip some HUGE massive tables in the other direction if you REALLY want a heated debate blaming someone for what someone else did. Let me know, it's not rocket science.

I never said I was FOR Obama (you assume that because some who have white knuckle death grip on >PARTY<)I'm just calling this ridiculous situation as I see it. Half-truths and half-baked to create sensationalism and doubt in the air.... like Arlo said out of fear. It's weak, it's grasping at straws at best and if this is all there is,.. you just talked me into voting for him. Ya gotta come up with something better then this, unless you're counting on everyone sticking a needle in their brains.

Voting strictly party line is how this country took a nose dive, and I usually call it tunnel vision but lately I call it pin-hole vision.

Just saying. The more the issue is defended the more ridiculous it (and the supporters of party political tripe) looks.

No one has answered my questions with any intelligent return, but great evasion I'll give em that. YA we don't want to converse about true factual details we want to focus on assumption and speculation and the party line, yours.

He didn't say it, you don't even know if he was there to walk out, and NO ONE can report to me what their church is doing minute to minute since you demand the same of him. All the important questions are ignored or slithered over. Not one attempt to answer any of them. Except in doing so it would start to make sense and we don't want that.

Arlo hit the nail on the head and drove it home. IMO
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 03:21:01 PM
It isn't "guilt by association". That's just another attempt to slip in the racist red herring.

The entire episode, from 20 years ago until now, calls into question Obama's judgement; actually, his lack of judgement.

The pretension that it was Wright's last sermon that is at issue is is also incorrect. The sermon about the US using nukes on Japan was given in 2001. The sermon dealing with damning America was given in 2003 and was the one where he charged the US government with inventing HIV to use against people of color.

You are right about denial though; you provide the best example of that statement so far in this thread.

I guess the other gratuitous general insults are added to show you do indeed know all the facts.

BTW the Entire episode did not last 20 years, it lasted less then 30 seconds. You guys aren't even getting the elementary stuff right. <shrug>

The only thing insulted here is my intelligence.

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 28, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
The democrats have firmly established that it is a "witch hunt" to prosecute someone who lied on the stand.

They are now attempting to establish that racism is ok and should be winked at when practiced by an "old uncle". Rest assured, this chicken will come home to roost.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 28, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
The democrats have firmly established that it is a "witch hunt" to prosecute someone who lied on the stand.

They are now attempting to establish that racism is ok and should be winked at when practiced by an "old uncle". Rest assured, this chicken will come home to roost.

Tehehe

You knew that was 100% nonsense before you posted it didn't you? I'm not a Dem but seemingly Reps try to excuse everything to keep reality out of it.

Lets face some basic simple facts of life here. I smell racism in this thread like a skunk.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 28, 2008, 07:17:28 PM
I smell racism in this thread like a skunk.

That's because it's about someone who belongs to a racist church.

It takes a racist of an extreme nature to think that only White people can be racist.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 28, 2008, 07:29:14 PM
Guilt by association, that's interesting.

If this is the only straw righty fanatics can grasp I'd say they probably can't find much dirt on Obama. Ya went hunting for bear and brought home a rabbit. :)

Why would he quit the church? Doesn't make sense since the minister has retired and the very sermon all are wetting pants over was his last. It's very selective on what parts of the issue people want to converse about.

There's one thing about denial, you never know you're in it.

People are pretty witty on this subject, and say things that would fly IF you didn't know all the facts or missing half a brain. But there is very little common sense being used. Propaganda usually contains no common logic.

If this is all there is on Obama, I'd say he's a pretty clean guy. Since we have none of his personal actions to condemn we resort to what someone else did? That's grasping man. <G> When you folks come up with something Obama actually did himself, then lets talk. Otherwise this is truly a waste of time.

Ya just can't fix stupid.

<S>











Its not guilt by association, but the honest question of why you attended a church that teaches Black Liberation Theology for 20 years?
Someone could attend a white separatist church for 20 years and never utter a bigoted remark. The problem would not be guilt by association, but why a person would attend a separatist church for 20 years. This is a big problem you can't just ignore. The church gave a very visible ant-Semitic (Louis Farrakhan) what amounts to a life time achievement award. Obama's self proclaimed Mentor accompanied Farrakhan to Libya to visit Qaddafi when he was still targeting American interest. Hey - its a free America. But I want someone more cautious to be my President. We can find someone who wasn't tangled in a web of nuts. Obama is a nice looking black m an. So what? His ideas are not nearly spectacular enough to make a thinking person ignore the anti-American and criminal people he chooses to be friends with. He says NOTHING ti make him worth the risk. He's simply an appealing black man. That shouldn't get anyone elected President.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 28, 2008, 08:53:59 PM
The red herring of racism and the bliss of denial; that's all we've seen so far from those who choose not acknowledge the simple truth of Obama's history.

Not surprising; Obama's offer of change we can believe in is meaningless. None of those defending here in this thread can explain what that means or give examples of change for the better that Obama might bring us all. So they have to dodge and rely on the liberal fall back charge of racism while demeaning and insulting anyone that disagrees.

All anyone needs to know about Obama can be found in his voting record. The man who would bring us all together, the man that will return us to the center is an extreme left wing liberal.

Couple that with his snake-oiled duplicity (“Don’t tell me words don’t matter,” Obama said. “‘I have a dream.’ Just words?"; except of course that Wright's anti-American and racist remarks are words that don't matter.) and you have just another typical lying politician. Although, I suppose if I say that it is racist while Obama saying his grandmother  is a "typical white person" is not a racist remark. I understand; that is liberalism at its typical hypocritical best.

I hope Obama is the nominee; under the more intense scrutiny of the actual Presidential race I think his lying hypocrisy and ultra liberal positions will be clearly exposed.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 29, 2008, 01:18:00 AM
Tehehe

You knew that was 100% nonsense before you posted it didn't you? I'm not a Dem but seemingly Reps try to excuse everything to keep reality out of it.

Lets face some basic simple facts of life here. I smell racism in this thread like a skunk.

How is it possible for an anti-racist to defend a racism?

That was a trick question. It isn't possible.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 29, 2008, 02:16:24 AM
How is it possible for an anti-racist to defend a racism?

That was a trick question. It isn't possible.

Well thanks for speaking for me, but I prefer to do it on my own.

It takes alot of energy to consume one's self with ignoring common logic to purposely always end up with the same result. "He's guilty". I'm not saying YOU are racist. I am saying some responding may not realize they may be.

Is it really political or is it because he's black? The political can only be fear and any other excuse\agenda to completely ignore common logic could only be racism. You just can't purposely ignore important evidence with out an effort and self-serving agenda. You don't need an effort if you're being honest, especially with yourself. Truth stands on it's own with no pushing at all.

And we return to my 3 questions again.
A major point here is not one single person attacking Obama will even attempt to answer them. They\you just slip and slide around the issue and slow-walk yourself past them trying to use the same reasoning we started with when I asked them. Yall speak this stuff like it's proven fact, yet no on can answer one question.

It's a circle jerk. If you ignore them then your theories are sharply flawed and you know it. Now they're just arguing to "win",..OR they know nothing about what they say. And basically >IMO< pushing pure nonsense.

Even the opposing politicians refuse to tackle those questions, because the out-come spells "idiot". It's all political tripe, white wash, and smoke screen. It's the only thing people against Dems and\or Obama have and it's damn weak. I'd be embarrassed to push such idiocy. If I were out to discredit someone it would definantly have to be much better then this. All I see is half-baked speculation based on half-truths, and bent fish hooks.

I certainly would NOT use it as my best ammo. <shrug> But if that's all they got then they HAVE to get silly with it. Problem is it's VERY transparent. I think the only people being fooled by it are the people pushing it thinking other's are actually swallowing it. <shrug>

In a nut shell yall bit the hook line and sinker.

Just because the rest of us choose to at least view common sense, doesn't mean we are trying to hide anything. The accusing side of things is ignoring everything but what they want you to believe, like a bad prosecutor.

If it were in court it would be thrown out because you're not presenting anything in a form of evidence other then hear-say and assumption.

NOW, if this were to be about Billary being held down by sniper fire I'd be behind you every step of the way, waving flags, firing flare guns but this subject is just ridiculous. It really is an insult to intelligence of any kind.

>IMO<

Sorry but it's just true. <S>
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Shuckins on March 29, 2008, 07:49:27 AM
I wouldn't vote for Obama in any case, that decision based simply on the fact that there isn't two cents worth of difference between he and Hillary.

Obama did the right thing in publicly denouncing Reverend Wright's highly biased, racist, and inflammatory sermons.  Like the other race baters in our society, the right Reverend Wright (Sorry, couldn't resist.) is stuck in the 1960's.  His remarks would only make sense if American society had remained static in the area of race relations for the last 50 years.  Whether such men actually believe the bilious statements that they make is beside the point;  they've been using them in a manner calculated to gain political favors and social advantage since the subsuming of moderate social discussion that occurred after the death of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

Obama maintains that he didn't know about Wright's radical views.  I'm sorry, but based on my own experiences in life, I simply do not believe him.  My wife and I have moved to new homes on several occasions during our married life, and have changed church membership when we did so.  Within a month or two of such moves, I could tell you what my pastor believed on a wide-variety of religious, social, and political topics.  He's a bright, intelligent guy.  How could he NOT know, especially given a twenty year membership and the fact of a close personal friendship with Wright?  There have been indications throughout Obama's campaign that both he and his wife, while they might not say so publicly, actually agree with some of Wright's statements about his country:  Her statement about this being the first time in her life that she's been proud of her country;  Obama's national anthem foible;  Wright's hateful-statements.

Taken singly, they could be written off as mere circumstance.  Taken together, fair or not, questions begin to arise ... at least for some Americans....
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 29, 2008, 10:00:36 AM
Soooo..  If a white guy attends KKK meetings but doesn't say a thing himself then all is ok?

If a white guy had a wife that said that there was never any hope in America...

The PC lefties here are the ones who have the obvious double standard..  they are in as uncomfortable a place as the democrats who are running a woman and a half negro.   

I have not heard one good argument why we should not condemn a member of a black racist church much less let him in office.   I have not heard one good reason why he didn't get his wife meds or leave her long ago.. 

He doesn't mind hearing racist comments so long as they are against whites.  to belong to a racist church.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 29, 2008, 10:49:41 AM
I don't know if you got my point FT_Animal. I'm saying that YOU can't defend racism and present youself a non-racist in the same paragraph.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 29, 2008, 03:06:04 PM
I don't know if you got my point FT_Animal. I'm saying that YOU can't defend racism and present youself a non-racist in the same paragraph.

The fact is you are missing\ignoring mine, and on top of it putting words in my mouth. It's a distraction tactic, you know it, I know it you'd have to be brain dead to not know it.

I will NEVER protect racism, I hate peeps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and KKK equally. I defend a human ACCUSED of such who isn't exactly what yall paint him to be with water colors. It's a simply rep based lynch mod grasping at the only straw available.

Again (5th time now) unanswered questions. If you can't answer those questions how can you manifest this stance with any dignity? You don't because it blows your beleif system out of the water.

Many people were unduly lynched by minds like these, many innocent people were wrongly killed by minds like these. Fear of the unknown, what ya don't know you assume and then take actions on it? If it were the old days you peeps would have lynched him by now and wait for truth later. Lynch the guilty, but don't lynch people based on association. Like I said all the arguments here would never hold up in a court, ever. The Minister IS the racist and that's the only fact I see in over 100,000 charters of text in this thread. To say ANYTHING else is in fact association and nothing more.  In my court the minister would get his due and Obama would go free.

When people simply *refuse* to see another POV then you're simply not thinking with open minds, you have no intension to and it makes this conversation fruitless to people willing to view both sides of truth.

All I've done here is played the devil's advocate, one spec of truth or open mindedness would have squelched my thirst.

Until someone actually answers my questions this thread a waste of time. I don't view a part of a picture I view the whole picture and that's my biggest point of all.

I spent way too much time in this thread. And i leave it with this. "If the power of suggestion doesn't work, nothing will".
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: FT_Animal on March 29, 2008, 03:12:42 PM
That's because it's about someone who belongs to a racist church.

It takes a racist of an extreme nature to think that only White people can be racist.

OHH really> Let me pump a FACT into your ears. I live in NW Indinana, I'm an audio engineer, as a side job I installed the audio in that church, it's 20 min from me. That church is at very least 70-80% whites. Now what?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 29, 2008, 03:27:59 PM
people people, relax, FT_Animal says obama is not a racist, what he is saying is obama is just stupid for belonging to a racist church for 20 years.

come on , we are going to have change and hope or something.  drink the koolaid.
 

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Maverick on March 29, 2008, 08:08:44 PM
So did he belong to a racist church for 20 years with a bigoted pastor he considers a mentor because he didn't know it was a racist church or because he agreed with the principles that the racist church / pastor espoused?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AWMac on March 29, 2008, 08:21:40 PM
Dam it seems to me that I recall sermons to all the Churches that I've attended in the past 20 Years while hungover or what not.

Who is Bullchittin who on this issue?

Mac
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Xargos on March 29, 2008, 08:32:47 PM
OHH really> Let me pump a FACT into your ears. I live in NW Indinana, I'm an audio engineer, as a side job I installed the audio in that church, it's 20 min from me. That church is at very least 70-80% whites. Now what?

It's still a racist church, no matter who is there.  And how do you know they're really white?  Obama is not really Black and he belongs to it.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Shuckins on March 29, 2008, 09:02:09 PM
Well, I've watched quite a bit of video of church services held at Trinity United Church of Christ....and when the camera pans the congregation it appears to be about 80 to 90% black.  Its gospel is, according to its own mission statement, unashamedly Christian and devoted to Afrocentrism.  Visit its websight and you will find that the pastoral staff is ALL black, its scholarship programs devoted to providing scholarships for African-American students who must write a short essay on how they will use the scholarship to benefit the African-American community, and the Church has an awards program to honor those whose work have benefitted African-American society.

None of which is wrong, in and of itself, and the church does quite a bit of good, especially with programs designed to alleviate violence among youth, and family counseling. 

Sorry FT, but I don't really believe you when you say that the church is 70-80% WHITE.  Are you sure you're not just BS'in us to make a point?

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 30, 2008, 10:22:03 AM
it boils down tooo...

He belonged to a racist church for 20 years and had a racist as a "mentor" and a wife who thought America was a terrible place with no hope.

Now..  he claims he is unaware of these things.

That means...

1)  He is a liar and and is comfortable surrounding himself with Amerihaters and racists.

2)  He is one stupid half negro guy.

3)  He one again plus... he thinks we are really really stupid.

I have seen the tap dancing by him on the subject and am not impressed.

And animal..  I agree that racism is boring.  I don't hang out with racists much but a few of my friends from the old days are full blown..  they are pretty interesting guys but pretty boring when on the racist kick.   I don't male excuses for them.  they are what they are.  I don't pretend I never heard em say racist things.. some are even pretty darn funny and I laugh.  mostly tho... I just shake my head and say "sheesh.. give it a rest"

lazs

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 30, 2008, 10:40:12 AM

Sorry FT, but I don't really believe you when you say that the church is 70-80% WHITE.  Are you sure you're not just BS'in us to make a point?



Obama's church is part of a network of churches. They all share the same name. I don't know how many churches there are.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 30, 2008, 10:50:18 AM
it boils down tooo...

He belonged to a racist church for 20 years and had a racist as a "mentor" and a wife who thought America was a terrible place with no hope.

Now..  he claims he is unaware of these things.

That means...

1)  He is a liar and and is comfortable surrounding himself with Amerihaters and racists.

2)  He is one stupid half negro guy.

3)  He one again plus... he thinks we are really really stupid.

I have seen the tap dancing by him on the subject and am not impressed.

And animal..  I agree that racism is boring.  I don't hang out with racists much but a few of my friends from the old days are full blown..  they are pretty interesting guys but pretty boring when on the racist kick.   I don't male excuses for them.  they are what they are.  I don't pretend I never heard em say racist things.. some are even pretty darn funny and I laugh.  mostly tho... I just shake my head and say "sheesh.. give it a rest"

lazs

lazs

President of the Harvard Law Review.....he sounds extremely dumb to me  :rofl

Amerihaters? What's wrong with seeing flaws in this country? It's people that think America is perfect that hurt this country. They aren't willing to evolve out of their narrow simple mind.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 30, 2008, 10:59:20 AM
soo.. you are saying that it is number one or number three?

I would agree with that.

I go for number three.. he is a racist and hates White America and.. he thinks we are really really dumb to not notice.

He is partly right.. a lot of folks are.. some white PC guys who can't see past the slogan and some colored folk who are so filled with hate and despair that they can't see reality either.  He is a panderer like all politicians but with a particularly repugnant racist message of bigotry and blame.

lazs
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 30, 2008, 11:37:53 AM
OHH really> Let me pump a FACT into your ears. I live in NW Indinana, I'm an audio engineer, as a side job I installed the audio in that church, it's 20 min from me. That church is at very least 70-80% whites. Now what?

Now is where you admit you got the wrong church or lied?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 30, 2008, 10:20:43 PM
I go for number three.. he is a racist and hates White America and.. he thinks we are really really dumb to not notice.
lazs

Who do you think contributed the millions and millions of dollars to his campaign?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: john9001 on March 31, 2008, 07:51:59 AM
Who do you think contributed the millions and millions of dollars to his campaign?


al qaeda?
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: lazs2 on March 31, 2008, 07:55:58 AM
twenty fo..   little dumb white girls buy rap music too and dumb white guys smile and look uncomfortable when negros make fun of em.. It all has to do with lack of self esteem and guilt and the need to be PC.

I don't share any of that crap so I just see it like it is.

lazs

Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 31, 2008, 12:38:55 PM
It's still a racist church, no matter who is there.  And how do you know they're really white?  Obama is not really Black and he belongs to it.

The circular illogic baffles but amuses. Funny how tight a circle one'll turn when it's an emotion-driven argument. It must be an Aces High habit some have spread throughout their real lives. If it's the best they got they do it over and over. Hope you're in a zeke. Whoops, don't look now ... your tail is missing. :D
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2008, 01:07:49 PM
Arlo, emotion has nothing to do with this for me. After all the PC BS and anti-racism diatribes we've all had to live with for the last several decades do you imagine I'm going to left a far lefty off the hook just because his association is with black racism? Racism is racism regardless of who practices it and no way in hell will I or many, many others give Obama a free pass on this important issue. The chicken has come home to roost.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 31, 2008, 01:14:45 PM
Arlo, emotion has nothing to do with this for me. After all the PC BS and anti-racism diatribes we've all had to live with for the last several decades do you imagine I'm going to left a far lefty off the hook just because his association is with black racism? Racism is racism regardless of who practices it and no way in hell will I or many, many others give Obama a free pass on this important issue. The chicken has come home to roost.

No ... I'm not seeing a logical argument from you. I'm seeing a lot of emotion-driven perception clouding your judgement. I can even see it in this supposedly carefully worded post. Just sayin'. But carry on. :)  :salute
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: indy007 on March 31, 2008, 01:14:57 PM
It's pretty obvious why Obama attended that church, and it seems like a lot of y'all missed the mark.

If you want to be a successful, black politician in Chicago, you go to that church for the connections and contacts. It's pretty simple.

Doesn't make Obama some crazy racist out for reparations. It just makes him a typical, slimeball politician.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2008, 01:17:23 PM
No ... I'm not seeing a logical argument from you. I'm seeing a lot of emotion-driven perception clouding your judgement. I can even see it in this supposedly carefully worded post. Just sayin'. But carry on. :)  :salute

Don't know why I waste the time. One of these days I'll learn, maybe even today.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Arlo on March 31, 2008, 01:22:05 PM
Don't know why I waste the time. One of these days I'll learn, maybe even today.

*ShruG* Fine .... show me how what I highlighted in your post could not have been emotionally driven. Cooly and logically. Thank you.  :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: BTW on March 31, 2008, 01:54:29 PM
It's pretty obvious why Obama attended that church, and it seems like a lot of y'all missed the mark.

If you want to be a successful, black politician in Chicago, you go to that church for the connections and contacts. It's pretty simple.

Doesn't make Obama some crazy racist out for reparations. It just makes him a typical, slimeball politician.

Thats about it in a nutshell. Obama  is a little too young to be a rabid racist. He joined the church because it was Oprah's church (i.e., the movers and the shakers in the black community went there). The problem he has is now his stellar judgement seems bad and his "change" seems more of the same old political expediency game. I think he and his wife are anti-American in a European, trendy sort of way. He wants to be hip and intellectual without having to put in a lot of work. He'd sell his own white grandmother for the job -oh wait - he already did. While a state senator can get away with attending a church that teaches Black liberation Theology, its much  harder to slide that past the diverse group that makes up America. It is eccentric, and to a lot of people, a deal breaker. There are few good reasons to support racist dogma, and yet the circus unfolds.

I really don't think he has any chance of winning now.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: Toad on March 31, 2008, 02:14:56 PM
It just makes him a typical, slimeball politician.

Which is the point entirely and which point has been made several times throughout this thread.

This change? Hardly. This is the same old -same old. And THAT you CAN believe.
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: indy007 on March 31, 2008, 02:29:16 PM
Which is the point entirely and which point has been made several times throughout this thread.

This change? Hardly. This is the same old -same old. And THAT you CAN believe.

I lack the ambition to read through all the pages. It's almost as bad as the global warming threads. Don't need all that to know not to vote for a socialist. :)
Title: Re: Obama's Pastor "disappeared" from website.
Post by: TwentyFo on March 31, 2008, 04:27:05 PM
twenty fo..   little dumb white girls buy rap music too and dumb white guys smile and look uncomfortable when negros make fun of em.. It all has to do with lack of self esteem and guilt and the need to be PC.

I don't share any of that crap so I just see it like it is.

lazs

Wow, that could be one of dumbest comments I've heard in a while. (Note to self: rational conversations with laz are impossible.)