General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: mutha on December 04, 2016, 10:37:24 PM
Title: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on December 04, 2016, 10:37:24 PM
I know there are some that dislike the ENY handicap, and some that don't mind it at all, but is there anyone who is HAPPY to get that little message prohibiting usage of low-ENY vehicles?
Or is it more like sitting down to play your usual game of chess and being told that in order to make the game more fun for everyone, you don't get to play with all your usual pieces?
Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 04, 2016, 11:34:42 PM
I despise it. It ruins fights and craters numbers.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Blooz on December 05, 2016, 02:51:04 AM
I do! It's the satisfaction of knowing you won't be seeing many P51D, P47M or Spit 16 when you're country is already outnumbered two to one (or more).
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Copprhed on December 05, 2016, 04:55:59 AM
I do! It's the satisfaction of knowing you won't be seeing many P51D, P47M or Spit 16 when you're country is already outnumbered two to one (or more).
+1 The high ENY drivers don't get that. Divas never do.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on December 05, 2016, 05:07:38 AM
I mostly fly planes with ENY 20 or higher so normally its no issue, If ENY gets over 20 its time for a side switch.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BuckShot on December 05, 2016, 05:53:28 AM
I like it. It means lots of perks earned. I got about 17 for 3 kills in a Mossie.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Drane on December 05, 2016, 06:47:39 AM
How can you compare it to a game of chess when in chess all things are already equal on both sides?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Rebel28 on December 05, 2016, 06:47:57 AM
Just my thought on the ENY system. I understand the idea behind it but I would like to see it more as a tiered system based on pilot ranking.
Tier 1 – Pilots ranked 1-100
Tier 2 – Ranking 100 – 1000
Tier 3- Ranking 1000+ NO ENY because like me you are just a target for the other side and you need all the time in this fighter you can get…
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Crash Orange on December 05, 2016, 06:55:01 AM
It needs to be turned off after about 2 a.m. CST. Low numbers lead to idiotic results, especially when one side has high numbers just because a few people went to bed without logging off and are sitting in the tower overnight. With 200 players that doesn't make much difference, with 30 people actually playing between the 3 countries the 10 people afk overnight make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Randy1 on December 05, 2016, 07:07:22 AM
I see the reason for eny. It is effective as it moves perk rides out of reach but the restrictions on planes like the P-51 and wirble just anger players. I usually choose a P-38 so rarely am I affected by eny restrictions.
I would be in favor of still letting eny stop perk rides but allow rides like the P-51 to to be unrestricted but let eny go negative and restrict scoring and perks. Negative is just an example but might be interesting.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 05, 2016, 07:09:40 AM
Just perk the 190D, La7 and Spit16. Tired of runners and EZ mode flying. It's creating too much timid game play. ENY won't really need to matter if these hotshot planes are already perked. You should have to at least earn the ability to fly these planes so often.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Creton on December 05, 2016, 07:30:08 AM
I typically only fly the G2,47-D40, and my recent love affair is the 190A8!!
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: ACE on December 05, 2016, 08:11:06 AM
Just perk the 190D, La7 and Spit16. Tired of runners and EZ mode flying. It's creating too much timid game play. ENY won't really need to matter if these hotshot planes are already perked. You should have to at least earn the ability to fly these planes so often.
Don't forget the K4 ;) atleast make her 5 eny lol
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: waystin2 on December 05, 2016, 08:44:10 AM
Just perk the 190D, La7 and Spit16. Tired of runners and EZ mode flying. It's creating too much timid game play. ENY won't really need to matter if these hotshot planes are already perked. You should have to at least earn the ability to fly these planes so often.
Opinions on timid flying are irrelevant and an EZ mode plane is any ride a pilot has mastered. I suspect we all have EZ mode rides, and I know we all have turned away from enemy planes. There are no perks needed. The Dora does need to have its ENY adjusted down, and I think you will see it happen eventually. Should be a 5-8 based on how much it is used. The LA's and Spit's are already 5 ENY so they disappear quickly when ENY kicks in.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: MrRee on December 05, 2016, 08:48:15 AM
Every time someone says they hate eny because they can not fly anything under 20
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: oakranger on December 05, 2016, 09:15:02 AM
Eh, I don't see envy as a issue. Maybe divers your self at all levels from perk plane to envy 40.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: katanaso on December 05, 2016, 09:37:36 AM
It's sometimes an annoyance if I want to have an easy ride, but the only recent time it affected gameplay for me was the other night, when it was over 29, and I couldn't take out an Ostwind or Wirble to defend a field from vulchers.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 05, 2016, 09:42:35 AM
It's a great plane, but you still have to set up shots and actually get in the fight to get kills, setting up the kind of shots it takes to be successful in the K4, are advanced maneuvers.
Opinions on timid flying are irrelevant and an EZ mode plane is any ride a pilot has mastered. I suspect we all have EZ mode rides, and I know we all have turned away from enemy planes. There are no perks needed. The Dora does need to have its ENY adjusted down, and I think you will see it happen eventually. Should be a 5-8 based on how much it is used. The LA's and Spit's are already 5 ENY so they disappear quickly when ENY kicks in.
I disagree on the first part. You can master the lower midwar planes all day, but that doesn't mean a La7, or spit16, or 190D won't be able to roll off the field and catch you, then BnZ or gang you to death. I can do great in a 109G2, until 4 enemies easily chase me down and then you have to know advanced ACM to maybe get away, but typically you don't. There is no midwar plane that can easily compete with a spit16, especially if his La7 buddy is right behind him. If a good player is in a 16 or 190D, it's pretty much over unless they make some silly mistake. Then they just hit X and magically accelerate away. Sigh.
I think taking away the ability to easily be able to fly the fastest or most advanced planes will make the fights more exciting again. At least the players would have to earn the ability to get them with perks. There needs to be more options to spend perks anyway.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: ACE on December 05, 2016, 09:53:57 AM
You have to set up shots in every plane Demon.. K4 makes it a bit easier I'll say due to the fact that it's like a rapid fire 30mm and you only need one. Many times on my snap shots with the K4 I hit with well over 1 30mm
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: MrRee on December 05, 2016, 09:57:29 AM
There is no midwar plane that can easily compete with a spit16, especially if his La7 buddy is right behind him. If a good player is in a 16 or 190D, it's pretty much over unless they make some silly mistake. Then they just hit X and magically accelerate away.
Minus the low eny plane running from you and you having to chase them part I would like to submit:
109F
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 05, 2016, 10:07:06 AM
Eh, I don't see envy as a issue. Maybe divers your self at all levels from perk plane to envy 40.
You don't. I and many others do. The system as implemented is screwing things up.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Banshee7 on December 05, 2016, 10:12:08 AM
I used to love ENY. I typically flew the 38 (even though I had a love affair with the 51), so I was rarely affected. Even more so because I often switched countries to the low # side.
Josh
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Lazerr on December 05, 2016, 10:38:28 AM
I like it when there is a certain amount of players online.
During off peak hours, it shouldnt exhist unless we are able to freely change countries.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: waystin2 on December 05, 2016, 11:00:58 AM
It's a great plane, but you still have to set up shots and actually get in the fight to get kills, setting up the kind of shots it takes to be successful in the K4, are advanced maneuvers.
I disagree on the first part. You can master the lower midwar planes all day, but that doesn't mean a La7, or spit16, or 190D won't be able to roll off the field and catch you, then BnZ or gang you to death. I can do great in a 109G2, until 4 enemies easily chase me down and then you have to know advanced ACM to maybe get away, but typically you don't. There is no midwar plane that can easily compete with a spit16, especially if his La7 buddy is right behind him. If a good player is in a 16 or 190D, it's pretty much over unless they make some silly mistake. Then they just hit X and magically accelerate away. Sigh.
I think taking away the ability to easily be able to fly the fastest or most advanced planes will make the fights more exciting again. At least the players would have to earn the ability to get them with perks. There needs to be more options to spend perks anyway.
Bear in mind my two favorite rides are very high ENY's-Yak9T and the Hurricane IID. But if you get caught, you made an incorrect decision somewhere along the line and all the ENY/perk changes in the world will not correct this issue. Excitement comes from you. Try something different, this game is infinite in it's opportunities to kill red guys. :aok
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: LilMak on December 05, 2016, 11:01:25 AM
Eny rarely bothers me. I think it would be better if it simply slid the perk scale.
ie: Rather than restrict any ride, it simply makes the thing cost perks based on how bad the side imbalance may be. When it slides, it costs perks to lift your D pony or LA-7. The worse the imbalance the more perks it costs to up your fav ride.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 05, 2016, 11:08:30 AM
Just my thought on the ENY system. I understand the idea behind it but I would like to see it more as a tiered system based on pilot ranking.
Tier 1 – Pilots ranked 1-100
Tier 2 – Ranking 100 – 1000
Tier 3- Ranking 1000+ NO ENY because like me you are just a target for the other side and you need all the time in this fighter you can get…
Oh that's really clever :aok ... Very true, a serial killer in a late war plane and there's not much you can do if you don't have the deck stacked up in your corner. In the other hand, I do fly the Thunderbolt M most of the time and when the eni gets too high I go play something else. It's not that I don't want to fly the other P47s, as I do from time to time. I don't have much time to play Aces High, and when I do log in I want to fly my favorite ride.
As far as heavily perking late war monsters, like making my P47M 200+ perk points, why not ... yet I fear it will encourage even more running and less fighting. The D9 and the P51 are already the poster child of the "dive and never look back as soon as I'm not the highest guy around".
The performance of the plane is not the real issue to me. It is more the disparity in lethalty between the cannons and the 50s. I have a compilation of videos of planes being lit up from head to toe with 8 50s and keeping on flying, while I lose a wingtip or a tail from a single 20mm ping. It's not about the speed, or the climb or the turning, it's about how many 1 ping fight ending capability the plane has that should be "balanced". Extremely rare are the top 50 A2A using 50s.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bozon on December 05, 2016, 11:32:47 AM
I dont understand the issue with ENY. My Mossie VI never had any issues with it, in spits of being the best fighter in the game.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Copprhed on December 05, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
I like it when there is a certain amount of players online.
During off peak hours, it shouldnt exhist unless we are able to freely change countries.
No, being outmanned is being outmanned, and ENY needs to be in place. The best options is for some people to pull up their big boy pants and fly something besides their advantage rides. Period.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Electroman on December 05, 2016, 12:09:14 PM
Hey All,
The ENY has been around for a long time and we all have differing views on it. It was put in place to try and level the playing field based on number of pilots online for a specific country. It's great when the ENY is against the other countries but sure sucks when it is against your own country.
As with all things maybe this is something HiTech can comment on / take a look at further as part of the game overhaul / improvements. There have already been some good suggestions.
My own comments on this previously were that if the ENY was to remain in place it needed to take into account more factors. A good example:
Country "A" has been smashed all day long and owns 45% of their own fields but finally has better numbers online than Country "B" and "C". However, they continue to struggle to regain ground as they are limited due to ENY and the aircraft / vehicles they can use. Possibly taking into consideration the % of bases owned plus numbers online and adjusting the ENY would help balance things here.
I like the idea of a tiered ranking system as well as someone previously mentioned.
I guess one of the good things with ENY (if you can call it that) is it forces pilots to get out of their comfort zone and try other rides that they normally may not fly. It may be very painful at first but you may find a new favorite ride in one of those times as well :)
I don't think the ENY issue will get resolved anytime soon as there are likely more game bug / improvements that need priority versus ENY being more of a pain but functional. Let's find some constructive feedback and wait for HiTech to circle back to this at a later date.
Cheers! Elec1
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 05, 2016, 12:10:26 PM
No, being outmanned is being outmanned, and ENY needs to be in place. The best options is for some people to pull up their big boy pants and fly something besides their advantage rides. Period.
No, because even when I am on the low side ENY causes my opponents to quit, ruining good fights. ENY swings during the time I play most often are chaotic at best. I walked away in frustration.
As implemented it is counterproductive.
Perhaps it is you who needs to pull up your big boy pants and stop relying on ENY as a crutch.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on December 05, 2016, 12:12:24 PM
Minus the low eny plane running from you and you having to chase them part I would like to submit:
109F
Ehh, it doesn't have the ammo, exceleration (makes a huge difference), zoom climb ability, and roll rate, or dive speed.
If both players are equal skill, the spit will dominate the whole fight with the E advantage from the start. If not, it will more than likely be able to run away anyway. The 109f is a great fun plane, but it's out matched against a real spit16 pilot. There aren't many planes that can do a triple emmilman off the merge.
Bear in mind my two favorite rides are very high ENY's-Yak9T and the Hurricane IID. But if you get caught, you made an incorrect decision somewhere along the line and all the ENY/perk changes in the world will not correct this issue. Excitement comes from you. Try something different, this game is infinite in it's opportunities to kill red guys. :aok
If you take a Hurricane 2D to 20K and dive on an opponent at 14K, you'd prolly only regain alt back 16K. Even with great SA, you will have planes that can easily catch you, no matter how great you think you are at SA. If you dive from 10K to 5K, going 380, you still have many planes that can still catch you. Speed is King in AH. The same thing happen in P40s. You can dive and try to extend all you want, faster planes will still catch you. You have to be careful not to get below any other fighter or they will catch you. This makes the game a lot more challenging. So if every player is in a 18K 190D, or LA7 that zooms around going 360 everywhere, you simply won't be able to get away even if you dive and extend out. You can dance all you want, until they gang you, you can dance all day, but they will BnZ you forever. These planes simply cannot get away or out of danger as well as 190Ds and La7s, which makes them much less capable in reality. I fly the G2 regularly and know how this works. It's just boring to constantly run into 190Ds or La7s that get you ganged or BnZed every sortie. This makes more people get into these types of planes, because that's all that can truely compete for most people to get kills. If you amp down the fastest rides, more people would be forced to fight, and it would create better furballs.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on December 05, 2016, 12:17:24 PM
I thought it was a great metaphor. Especially considering our chess pieces.
ENY is like a chess game where once one side loses too many pawns the other side can't use its Rooks and Knights and Bishops until numbers even out again.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on December 05, 2016, 12:36:07 PM
I love ENY and want to have it's baby. :)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on December 05, 2016, 12:38:53 PM
I thought it was a great metaphor. Especially considering our chess pieces.
ENY is like a chess game where once one side loses too many pawns the other side can't use its Rooks and Knights and Bishops until numbers even out again.
How about: if we had news teams from all the major networks facing off for a vicious cockfight in a back alley, if one news team has more members than the others, they can't use a hang grenade or trident?
Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: SPKmes on December 05, 2016, 01:22:03 PM
Personally I am not fussed either way over eny.... however I do believe if the numbers are at a certain level it should be void (certain numbers level is very obvious when you play at the times they are critical).... when the numbers are so low having any kind of restriction seems to be counter intuitive to me...it just seems possible that it deters people from upping for air combat...or combat fullstop....Oh yeah<hijack>...and Flaks...they should have a D800 icon visual when shut down....<endhijack> :airplane: :joystick:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on December 05, 2016, 01:35:17 PM
ENY works just fine.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JimmyC on December 05, 2016, 01:42:02 PM
it gets me out the spixteen....its gotta be a good thing...
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zardoz on December 05, 2016, 03:03:10 PM
I like ENY configured just the way it is.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Triton28 on December 05, 2016, 03:03:40 PM
Eny rarely bothers me. I think it would be better if it simply slid the perk scale.
ie: Rather than restrict any ride, it simply makes the thing cost perks based on how bad the side imbalance may be. When it slides, it costs perks to lift your D pony or LA-7. The worse the imbalance the more perks it costs to up your fav ride.
This is not a terrible idea at all. Although like Lazer I always found ENY altogether useless when there's a total of 30 people flying.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: rvflyer on December 05, 2016, 03:28:46 PM
Wrong, because one side might have more numbers but usually they are getting attacked from both fronts while the two attackers are not fighting between themselves. If one side has say 32 they get high eny and another side has 15 and another side has 20 that is usually more times than not 35 against the high eny side of 32. The side with higher numbers has to fly high eny airplanes while the two sides with 35 still get low eny airplanes, this needs to be fixed if HT expect people to keep playing this lopsided method. I see people log off in great numbers when that happens. Absolutely no fun to play against two sides with low eny airplanes against one side with high eny airplanes. I know Dale is a very smart programer and could program a method to take this into account.
No, being outmanned is being outmanned, and ENY needs to be in place. The best options is for some people to pull up their big boy pants and fly something besides their advantage rides. Period.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: rvflyer on December 05, 2016, 03:31:17 PM
No, because even when I am on the low side ENY causes my opponents to quit, ruining good fights. ENY swings during the time I play most often are chaotic at best. I walked away in frustration.
As implemented it is counterproductive.
Perhaps it is you who needs to pull up your big boy pants and stop relying on ENY as a crutch.
+1
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: 49ZERO on December 05, 2016, 04:20:50 PM
I would be all for the abolishment of eny on the following conditions.NO MORE GOD MODE ! What I mean is when you log onto your country you only see dar.If you want to see dots and the names of the players you must go into the sector where the friendly dar is. That means either clicking on a base and moving there or flying or spawning into a sector. Why this would be related to eny you ask ? First of all it would pretty much limit the effect of alt accounts logged in tower causing eny. Why log a second or third account on other countries if you cant see who they are and what they are flying. The country that has the most players would be forced to fight they way the game was set up for.The countries with the least amount of players could do things knowing that if the enemy is waiting it was by luck or strategic planning. The only hope for a fair game is limit the view and not limit the aircraft. I believe that the god view mode is far more destructive in a war game then aircraft and vehicle restrictions.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on December 05, 2016, 04:40:20 PM
I'll roll up any ideas for ENY improvment and submit them as a post on the Features Suggestions forum.
Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on December 05, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
I would be all for the abolishment of eny on the following conditions.NO MORE GOD MODE ! What I mean is when you log onto your country you only see dar.If you want to see dots and the names of the players you must go into the sector where the friendly dar is. That means either clicking on a base and moving there or flying or spawning into a sector. Why this would be related to eny you ask ? First of all it would pretty much limit the effect of alt accounts logged in tower causing eny. Why log a second or third account on other countries if you cant see who they are and what they are flying. The country that has the most players would be forced to fight they way the game was set up for.The countries with the least amount of players could do things knowing that if the enemy is waiting it was by luck or strategic planning. The only hope for a fair game is limit the view and not limit the aircraft. I believe that the god view mode is far more destructive in a war game then aircraft and vehicle restrictions.
IMHO the use of shade accounts for spying is vastly overstated. There are a thousand reasons missions are intercepted but so many use the crutch "SPIES!!!" to have an excuse.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 05, 2016, 05:13:19 PM
I would be all for the abolishment of eny on the following conditions.NO MORE GOD MODE ! What I mean is when you log onto your country you only see dar.If you want to see dots and the names of the players you must go into the sector where the friendly dar is. That means either clicking on a base and moving there or flying or spawning into a sector. Why this would be related to eny you ask ? First of all it would pretty much limit the effect of alt accounts logged in tower causing eny. Why log a second or third account on other countries if you cant see who they are and what they are flying. The country that has the most players would be forced to fight they way the game was set up for.The countries with the least amount of players could do things knowing that if the enemy is waiting it was by luck or strategic planning. The only hope for a fair game is limit the view and not limit the aircraft. I believe that the god view mode is far more destructive in a war game then aircraft and vehicle restrictions.
We had doughnut dar in Warbirds. IT SUCKED.
Or are you talking about something else?
My ADD just kicked in. You lost me.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on December 05, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
IMHO the use of shade accounts for spying is vastly overstated. There are a thousand reasons missions are intercepted but so many use the crutch "SPIES!!!" to have an excuse.
98% of the time POTW squad NOE missions got busted, was we didn't see the CV near us. And it looked exactly like someone with a shade was using a second computer. The 2%, variations of people not happy with POTW for some reason or that skyrr thing a few years back. All missions busted from someone talking to friends in the other country about our massed flight outbound. Unless Hitech bans the use of third party VOX and text and cellphones, you will have two guys ratting out other guys from time to time. After 15 years, it goes with the territory if you want to play online games with immature people.
I suspect it's like the timeout udp\tcp timer that disconnects you from the host cannot tell if you have a reeeeaaaalllly bad internet connection or left a "c:\ping localhost -t" minimized at the task bar you "forgot was running" before you logged in. Yes I did it once years ago. And I was trying to test a bad connection at that....weeeee.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: icepac on December 05, 2016, 08:03:08 PM
ENY is fine..........I just take another plane.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 05, 2016, 08:15:41 PM
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Shuffler on December 05, 2016, 10:21:13 PM
ENY works. Those that do not even teams will not like it. They will learn to fly planes that take more skill or learn how to switch to the low number side.
Actually far fewer do what you think they do. Most stay and fly.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: lunatic1 on December 06, 2016, 01:29:46 AM
as it is stated in game eny is for side balancing,it is ment for people to switch sides to balance numbers.but not many want to switch sides temporarily, they stay with the side with the greater numbers and fly the mid and early war planes and gang the other country with lowest numbers, the country with the lowest numbers have the late war plane of their choice to fly but makes little difference when you are being ganged. and if the country being ganged has only 40 people on and 10-15 people in the tower its worse. your not married to the country you fly for, don't be afraid to change sides-side change is only 6 hours. of course this might work better if side switch was only 2 or 3 hours.
HiTech already eny is going to stay like it is so no sense talking about it. thank you for your attention.
P.S. the only thing that bugs me about eny is the gv's.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on December 06, 2016, 05:37:18 AM
ENY works. Those that do not even teams will not like it. They will learn to fly planes that take more skill or learn how to switch to the low number side.
Pure conjecture. With numbers the way they are being outnumbered is a blessing for the times I get online.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Shuffler on December 06, 2016, 11:20:03 AM
I know there are some that dislike the ENY handicap, and some that don't mind it at all, but is there anyone who is HAPPY to get that little message prohibiting usage of low-ENY vehicles?
Or is it more like sitting down to play your usual game of chess and being told that in order to make the game more fun for everyone, you don't get to play with all your usual pieces?
Mutha
For us Rooks, who seem to have the low numbers, it's like a fire sale......... B29's were 34 perks a bird.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 03, 2017, 09:26:30 AM
If they perk the Yak-3 damage model I'm a happy camper
Title: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 03, 2017, 10:38:25 PM
At this point of the game's evolution, this has to be the most unthoughtout feature ever. This system, if it EVER worked, was a product of an arena with 500 people in it. The ENY values are arbitrary and have no basis in fact and only serve to keep people from flying. As many people will log in and look at ENY and log off because there is no waste of time quite like trying to fly a lame plane on a lame map. You can only make up for bad ENY with sufficient numbers and right now the numbers are just too low.
To be clear, the argument that it "encourages people to fly other planes" is just a salve to the ego of the developer more than anything else. The developer wants people to try all the planes that were so difficult to create. It is not "want" of the player to fly all of them all the time. Human nature dictates that the player will fly only a few over any given period. The player wants to have the option to fly but not the commandment. At most people will have a stable of lower ENY planes they might be willing to fly but they are still selecting out of a very select few. So the idea that they are sampling the gamut of plane choices is a fallacy. Don't believe what people say, believe what YOU see them fly. Its the same thing over and over. They are far more likely to just try something different for the fun of it.
Now with the numbers so low it has just become an easily accessed form of cheat. Less than a handful of cheaters can keep an entire country in ENY all night for nights on end.
Here are the facts: 1. Having a second account is a minimal impediment to cheating. It is proven that people have done it and will do it in the future. They place the second account in the country they want to have ENY. Tonight both Knights and Bishops had 49 in flight but Knights had a ENY of 22 and Bishops had NONE. If you believe the counter nearly 20 people were in tower and stayed there. 2. With number as low as 30 per side, it takes only 2-3 cheaters having second accounts in the country of choice to induce ENY. ALL NIGHT! 3. This makes NO SENSE, when the numbers are so low. If the numbers are below 30 a side and you give 1/3 of the people an ENY of 27, what do you think they will do? THEY WILL LOG OFF BECAUSE ITS NOT WORTH IT!! Seriously, ask yourself what YOU would do? Would you battle 3 or 4 guys with both hands tied behind your back?
The total disconnect is having ENY based on "in country" instead of "in flight". In country has NO effect on the outcome of the battle. These people AREN'T FLYING or PLAYING!!!! Therefore they can have NO impact on the fight.
If you MUST have ENY as a very crude balancing mechanism have it based in "in flight" numbers. In flight players actually affect the outcome of the battle. ENY should cut off at about below 30 players on any side because it has no impact on game play. Whether there is 10 people on a side or 20, keep in mind they all have to work together to do anything. I have seen it where out of 60 players on, 2/3rds of them have ENY. Shortly thereafter the arena gets much, much smaller :). The vast majority of people DON'T switch sides. That is just a reality. There is always a small set of opportunists that do but that isn't the norm.
Please consider that this game isn't getting bigger, its getting smaller. Don't make it smaller yet by hanging onto a play killer. The change is easy and simple. People leave the game because of the "can'ts" not the "cans".
Thanks!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: gflyer on January 03, 2017, 11:06:09 PM
Not sure in-flight would solve the problem, just result in more players hangar sitting (if the shade thing was actually a factor). Not sure there is a good middle-ground solution that can appease everyone. I lean towards shortening the switch time, though this has been shot down as a non-starter in other threads.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 03, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
+1 OP.
It is totally unworkable in its current form.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Devil 505 on January 04, 2017, 12:00:22 AM
It worked as intended with a 1 hour side switch.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: caldera on January 04, 2017, 12:29:44 AM
Human nature dictates that the player will fly only a few over any given period. The player wants to have the option to fly but not the commandment. At most people will have a stable of lower ENY planes they might be willing to fly but they are still selecting out of a very select few. So the idea that they are sampling the gamut of plane choices is a fallacy.
This is my playlist for 2016. Just listing the fighters with 100 or more kills:
Some people enjoy ENY so much, that they will even fly lower tiered planes for the low numbered country. Those people may not be human. <creepy alien reveal music plays>
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zimme83 on January 04, 2017, 04:05:05 AM
Im surprised that anyone is flying at all since all online players are shades or spies.....
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: BuckShot on January 04, 2017, 06:10:57 AM
Yes, kill eny and then change the name of the game to "P-51Ds High." Cough, cough...
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Randy1 on January 04, 2017, 06:48:33 AM
My latest thought on side balancing and let everyone fly the non perked plane or gv of choice is a bit of a different look at the problem.
A large side imbalance has little effect on furbals. A furball is just red against green. ENY restrictions just angers people.
A large side imbalance does have a large effect on field captures and map wins. Again ENY restrictions just angers people and have near zero effect to drive down a large side imbalance.
Now my latest idea. Why not change the parameters on things like strat rebuild time instead of ENY restrictions to keep thinks like ack guns from being down for 2 hours. Maybe make the city nearly indestructible or simply do away with starts altogether. You still need perked plane and gv restrictions when an imbalance occurs.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2017, 09:08:05 AM
A large side imbalance does have a large effect on field captures and map wins. Again ENY restrictions just angers people and have near zero effect to drive down a large side imbalance.
Instead of limiting plane/vehicle selection, maybe numbers imbalance should more directly affect base capture.
Instead of 10 troops, the high number side would have 9, 8, 7...etc. per Goon or M3. (This would also reduce "sneaks".)
The high number side would not have bombs heavier than 500lbs (250kg), or fewer bombs or GV ordnance per load.
Or, something....???
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: icepac on January 04, 2017, 11:54:12 AM
have numbers imbalance affect score multiplier drastically.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: puller on January 04, 2017, 01:05:22 PM
ENY serves its purpose...
If you don't like the ENY...fly early war planes more often then you can't cry when you can't get a Pony or LA7
To leave ENY in effect as is and kill 2 birds with 1 stone...allow people under the duress of ENY to use their perks to get Ponies or LA7s...
You just stopped 100 people from crying about ENY and you gave another 100 people something else to spend perks on...
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
I don't like it so I log. Many others do the same. It's getting to the point I am hit with it on nearly every login. That's not a system that's a nuisance.
Perk offsets would help. I never use perks any way so at least I could use them on a Mustang.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Golden Dragon on January 04, 2017, 02:09:37 PM
I agree. The Yaks take more damage than a B-17. I simply don't fight them anymore. I just zoom up to a higher altitude and extend away. I've emptied an entire '51 B into some before without even causing them to leak. I doubt that's accurate damage modeling.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: gflyer on January 04, 2017, 02:13:06 PM
+1 to Pullers idea.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Volron on January 04, 2017, 02:39:36 PM
If you don't like the ENY...fly early war planes more often then you can't cry when you can't get a Pony or LA7
To leave ENY in effect as is and kill 2 birds with 1 stone...allow people under the duress of ENY to use their perks to get Ponies or LA7s...
You just stopped 100 people from crying about ENY and you gave another 100 people something else to spend perks on...
That would work. If ENY kicks in and keeps you from using something, you have to SPEND perks to use it. Want to use that Pony D at 35 ENY? That'll be 50 perks. :P
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: popeye on January 04, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
XX perks for a (insert plane type here)?????
No way!!!! That's too (high) (low)!!!!
problem solved.... :O
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: morfiend on January 04, 2017, 03:46:21 PM
How about leaving eny as is but add a perk cost to planes with a 15 eny and lower. As the side eny increases the cost of those non-perked planes increases!
So what about new players with no perks.... give them a 90 day with the 2 free weeks included exemption. Allow new players the use of any plane perked or not during the exemption time.
Down side,well I can see many shade accounts made to try to get the free planes,but that gives HTC more accounts and more revenue. Besides it doesnt matter what you wrap hamburg in it's still hamburg!
Just something I thought could help,maybe not but I'd like to hear others thoughts and maybe something can come of this!
YMMV!
:salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: caldera on January 04, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Quote
allow people under the duress of ENY to use their perks to get Ponies or LA7s...
That may help out the people on the high numbered country that have the perks to burn and are willing to spend them. But...
What about the newer or less skilled people not being able to do so, because of insufficient perks? They will whine about this for sure. Maybe even leave , as some uber vets are claimed to have left due to ENY restrictions. The resulting situation would be almost identical to the original problem, no? No P-51Ds for them. Are new people leaving somehow better than regulars leaving?
And what of the low numbered side now having to face skilled vets in perked planes, in addition to being significantly outnumbered? The country loyalists might just log off, due to the untenable situation of fighting against such a force.
A much shorter side switch time would help, if the P-51D loyalists would use it. But they wouldn't. Everyone wants to eat their cake and still have it too. Suppose someone's favorite plane is the Tempest or C-Hog or the 262? Should they also get unlimited use? It's their $15, right? This is a game and ENY is to keep the uber planes somewhat in check. Without ENY, it would just be everyone on one side, all flying uber planes and the game would be over in short order.
If you really want full time availability, you can always create a custom arena with only the P-51D enabled. It would be interesting to see how many exclusive P-51D players would show up in an arena where it was all down to skill and nobody could run away. :D
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zoney on January 04, 2017, 04:23:17 PM
I have a drastic solution to this issue.
Switch Sides
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: ACE on January 04, 2017, 04:41:40 PM
I agree. The Yaks take more damage than a B-17. I simply don't fight them anymore. I just zoom up to a higher altitude and extend away. I've emptied an entire '51 B into some before without even causing them to leak. I doubt that's accurate damage modeling.
I also doubt you emptied an entire clip into a yak and it flew away. Either your lying or your gunnery sucks. No offense. But let's be real here lol..
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 04, 2017, 04:42:46 PM
I was in AH1 when the events took place that caused Hitech to introduce ENY. Until the last 4 years, ENY was never a problem impacting player perception of the game's fairness right, or wrong as it does now. It responded to a grave injustice enacted against the community by several groups along with the pied piper effect due to the effectiveness of their actions that expanded their numbers weekly. Regardless of how bad it made game play, with some canceling their accounts, you had to respect the success of the project. It massively paralyzed the MA and made life for anyone not part of the operation miserable. More miserable than ENY does today, and lately ENY has been a bit miserable.
After alpha and beta testing AH3 for two years, I've been playing a bit less lately. I didn't realize building a terrain after all of that could take the edge off wanting to look at a terrain for fun. So I get on mostly on squad night and for FSO with maybe one or two nights the rest of the month. It feels like ENY has become my new best friend.
Starting about two years ago ENY seemed to become a frequent condition of squad night, for the whole 3-4 hours in some cases of that evening Pacific coast prime time. Being a large squad we had the advantage of numbers and many years of experience to face all of the P51D, Doras, Tempests, 262, La7 and spit16. And we groused along with everyone on range VOX. And the uber riders showed up in their uber rides to shoot, runaway rinse and repeat. And we would be in our ENY dictated slow rides having to work our kesters off to counter them instead of having a fun evening like they were, running around at will at high speed. Who pays to play a game like this to "work"??
Eventually one evening we got fed up flying our winged under powered beer cans and Priuses and decided to country switch thinking it would help our current country and zero out ENY to even out the fights. NOPE!, NADA! no soup for yous.... There were about 12 of us and we really believed it would help. Shows you how much we didn't know about ENY that we thought we did.
So here we are in the present, last night was squad night and we were practicing with our next FSO ride the A8. And the other guys had their P51D, Tempest, 4Hog and so forth. We all eventually got slaughtered but, we delayed their gratification while we "worked" to delay the end. Now this started out at no ENY imposed and was our choice, for the practice flight to get to know our next FSO ride. But we wanted to come back in our own uber rides and make them work for what we gave away.
Ahhhhh ENY right when we really wanted to have some "fun". If you know nothing about the K4 other than it has monster WEP and crappy ballistics, it is not a good "jump in it ride" to go get revenge against a group in non-ENY impacted rides who are familiar with them. We did stomp them but, we had to drag them onto the deck and use our squad numbers to over whelm them. We had to "work" instead of having "fun". That's what FSO is for once a week.
This is becoming a common scenario for my squad on squad night lately. And it's an obvious stinker listening on range or reading text. Even when I come on other nights, ENY is there waiting. The MA is beginning to feel like being one of the Mr. Kraby clones in the DA three years ago flying garbage rides for his invitational fiascos called "Kill Kraby". All the clones ended up HO'd and picked to death by a herd of hero's in uber rides. I only did it because I liked Kraby and he needed the clones for his guests to shoot at.
It occurred to me last night that until ENY kicks in and my country and squad is doomed to garbage rides, you don't see as many hero's as we attracted in their uber rides to pick and HO the easy meat. Another phenomenon, the times ENY would clear up and my squad showed up in those uber rides, all the hero's were no where to be found to fight heads up. ENY is beginning to take the fun out of the MA.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: FLOOB on January 04, 2017, 04:55:29 PM
I agree. The Yaks take more damage than a B-17. I simply don't fight them anymore. I just zoom up to a higher altitude and extend away. I've emptied an entire '51 B into some before without even causing them to leak. I doubt that's accurate damage modeling.
Sounds more like crappy gunnery to me. I'm sorry to say that but if you emptied an entire load of 4x .50 cals into a Yak3, and you didn't do any critical damage or any damage at all, frankly, it's your gunnery that is an issue and not the Yak3 or damage model.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2017, 05:03:29 PM
If I switch teams I will be accused of cheating as my squadron will be on another team.
So that's not an option. I did so the other day and shot down my own squaddie.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 04, 2017, 05:12:23 PM
That would work. If ENY kicks in and keeps you from using something, you have to SPEND perks to use it. Want to use that Pony D at 35 ENY? That'll be 50 perks. :P
This, and make it more like 100. That, and if you're shot down flying a eny perk paid plane, the shooter should win big. If a 100 perk 51gets killed from an la-5, BIG perk earnings should go to the la-5 pilot.
A downfall could be the P-51 runners running even more to protect their 100 perk hide.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2017, 09:17:28 PM
This, and make it more like 100. That, and if you're shot down flying a eny perk paid plane, the shooter should win big. If a 100 perk 51gets killed from an la-5, BIG perk earnings should go to the la-5 pilot.
A downfall could be the P-51 runners running even more to protect their 100 perk hide.
100 perks?
I think not. A 51 ain't all that.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 04, 2017, 11:22:12 PM
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 05, 2017, 05:04:21 PM
I could understand ENY during it's first 10 years because we had 300-600 in the MA on average and it stopped what those squads did in AH1 that shut down the MA once a week. Today it triggers so often it may be becoming it's own fun killer versus the fun guardian it was introduced as. I doubt Hitech could pay country loyal players enough perks to get them to balance the arena. I doubt enough players really have enough perks to make up for ENY as often as it triggers these days.
But, ENY is feeding the reality that there are two countries full of loyal fools to pick at will, even if this statement might be a bit extreme. Though, the fact when ENY is in force you can find a group willing to be in a furball in their late war uber rides because of the advantages. Then when ENY is out of force, they disperse while the picked and PO'd players come back in late war uber rides to fight on equal terms.
ENY in a way is promoting an interesting condition that I doubt it was designed to create. Tyranny by a minority relying on ENY to boost their ability to take away other players "fun". So the question will be how long is "not fun" going to be tolerable? I keep wondering why the rooks seem to depopulate as a coincidence to ENY's constant on\off period on my squad's squad night Pacific coast prime time. Wonder if they are not having fun.....
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: puller on January 05, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
Rooks seem to be getting the better end of the eny stick lately....saw nits with 70 + the other day and bish and rooks had 70+ total :noid
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Chalenge on January 05, 2017, 08:54:28 PM
I have watched as Bishops routinely reset the maps even with a 29 ENY, so it's not stopping anything. If you play AH to fly the P-51s, Ta-152s, and so on, then yeah it's stopping that, but not resets.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: puller on January 05, 2017, 09:37:57 PM
I have watched as Bishops routinely reset the maps even with a 29 ENY, so it's not stopping anything. If you play AH to fly the P-51s, Ta-152s, and so on, then yeah it's stopping that, but not resets.
La5 FTW :rock :rock :rock
Bishops own AH :aok
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 06, 2017, 03:02:55 PM
The knights really don't have as much of an air force as they used to except for it's small dedicated group of furballers. Instead they have a GV battalion with members who happen to fly planes until they get bored or loose their patience for the current evolution of air Halo or however our air combat has evolved from 2008. And even with their GV numbers they seem mostly interested in trying to turn every base assault into a variation on the old V85 or AH2 craterma tank town. The bish seems to have an airforce that happens to have some GV players. And the rooks somewhere in between.
ENY used to not happen enough to turn combat pilots into GV commanders. Now, at least with the nits and rooks, ENY has everyone in GV's ignoring the bish air force which ends up being a tiny air hoard as it's fighting style which ever front it pops up on. Like I posted earlier, Hitech cannot pay country loyal players to use side switching to balance ENY. I even doubt 1 hour side switching will get country loyalists to move for the sake of balancing ENY. It would enable griefers to poach the existing furballs and base capture initiatives.
And flipping maps while ENY has your side in garbage rides, all three countries have overcome the ENY impositions and still flipped the map. The real problem from ENY is it happens so often now, it is impacting the fun people are paying $14.95 to have with their limited time each evening. That does not make them sissies, whiners, idiots or any other pejorative you want to dismiss them with. That makes them unhappy $14.95 a month subscribers who are getting worn out by the frequency of ENY and it's damping effect on the fun they expect to enjoy for their subscription.
I'm betting ENY was never expected to kick in this often and become a negative game function against the quality of fun subscribers could expect for their limited playing time. So now in a living laboratory it seems ENY has it's negative extreme based on player arena numbers as it had a positive effect on the past player arena numbers. It works very well for large player population control.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 06, 2017, 03:08:07 PM
Switching sides has not worked and will not work to resolve a side imbalance no matter what the delay is set for to change back to another country.
Do your remember this many ENY problems when we had 1 hour side switch???? Look back at threads around that time you won't see hardly any about ENY compared to this last year.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BBP on January 07, 2017, 01:15:30 AM
hate it !!!!!!
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 07, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
What exactly do you hate about it? Do you know how to even teams? Do you care to?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: 68ZooM on January 07, 2017, 05:59:31 PM
I think we need to beat this dead horse again, quick someone make another post about ENY.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 07, 2017, 06:22:51 PM
I KNOW when all fighters go down after a burst, shooting with my A8, all but the Yak3 die. How ever it's not consistent, another thread say when someone did testing they sometimes soaked it all up and flew on, and sometimes they died like a normal fighter.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 07, 2017, 07:14:51 PM
allow people under the duress of ENY to use their perks to get Ponies or LA7s...
You just stopped 100 people from crying about ENY and you gave another 100 people something else to spend perks on...
I've had the same, or similar, idea a while ago. Basically you charge the player perk points for every eny level + 1 that their desired aircraft is below the restriction. The player will get a warning box with an accept or cancel message.
Example 1: I'm flying Knights and my country has an ENY of 10. I desire to take up a 109K4 to quickly intercept and take care of a con passing through a nearby vector from my field. 109K4 has an ENY of 10 in this example so I will have to spend 1 perk to up my ride of choice (because as it stands you can not take up an eny 10 plane if you are restricted by 10 ENY).
Example 2: Same ENY situation but I want to take up a p51D from a field two sectors out to fly CAP over our defending base. In order to do so I will have to pay 6 perks [ (10-5)+1 ].
Otherwise, if possible, base ENY off of number of planes said country has in air or the number of active players within a sector or two of the base you wish to launch from (if this is possible with the current coding); ENY would only impact the side of the map you have the most players on.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: EagleDNY on January 08, 2017, 07:56:13 PM
I like the idea of just having ENY make uber rides cost perks. It makes a lot of sense - it isn't as if it is hard to earn perks to spend when the ENY goes up.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Randy1 on January 09, 2017, 07:18:36 AM
Keep in mind the root cause of eny restrictions is side imbalance and its effect on base captures and map wins. If posters would address ways to compensate country imbalance then a solution might be forthcoming.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BBP on January 09, 2017, 09:42:48 AM
I am on my second round of flying with the Bishops. My first was about a year ago. I only flew with them for a few months. And now on my second try with them I am experiencing the same problem that occurred the first time. I long in, go to the game and boom! Hit with ENY sign. I never have this problem with the other sides. So I assume the Bishops are the superior side because they seem to get a lead on most maps causing the eny handicap to go into effect right from the beginning of the game. So if the purpose of the game is to win the war (by winning maps) why would you handicap the team that is winning. I know the concept is to make sides even but this method makes it BORING and FRUSTRATING. I don't want to know I'm losing a fair fight and the winning side is being given peashooters to finish my side off. I want to play the other sides even steven and if they beat me - well they were the better team. This eny is just crazy. If you want to handicap a team..........take their 6 best players and move them to another side. NOW WE WILL HAVE SOME GOOD EVEN BATTLES IN THE AIR! The winning side will enjoy better competition. ENY IS JUST NOT WORKING!!!!!! AND MANY DISLIKE EMENSLY!
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 09, 2017, 09:52:33 AM
I am on my second round of flying with the Bishops. My first was about a year ago. I only flew with them for a few months. And now on my second try with them I am experiencing the same problem that occurred the first time. I long in, go to the game and boom! Hit with ENY sign. I never have this problem with the other sides. So I assume the Bishops are the superior side because they seem to get a lead on most maps causing the eny handicap to go into effect right from the beginning of the game. So if the purpose of the game is to win the war (by winning maps) why would you handicap the team that is winning. I know the concept is to make sides even but this method makes it BORING and FRUSTRATING. I don't want to know I'm losing a fair fight and the winning side is being given peashooters to finish my side off. I want to play the other sides even steven and if they beat me - well they were the better team. This eny is just crazy. If you want to handicap a team..........take their 6 best players and move them to another side. NOW WE WILL HAVE SOME GOOD EVEN BATTLES IN THE AIR! The winning side will enjoy better competition. ENY IS JUST NOT WORKING!!!!!! AND MANY DISLIKE EMENSLY!
Handicap fuel loads, rearm times, max bomb loads?
I dunno. War doesn't have ENY. It's a game you say? Ok fine. But it is causing more harm than good. WHEN NUMBERS ARE LOW ENY is a nuisance.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: TheBug on January 09, 2017, 10:33:45 AM
I am on my second round of flying with the Bishops. My first was about a year ago. I only flew with them for a few months. And now on my second try with them I am experiencing the same problem that occurred the first time. I long in, go to the game and boom! Hit with ENY sign. I never have this problem with the other sides. So I assume the Bishops are the superior side because they seem to get a lead on most maps causing the eny handicap to go into effect right from the beginning of the game. So if the purpose of the game is to win the war (by winning maps) why would you handicap the team that is winning. I know the concept is to make sides even but this method makes it BORING and FRUSTRATING. I don't want to know I'm losing a fair fight and the winning side is being given peashooters to finish my side off. I want to play the other sides even steven and if they beat me - well they were the better team. This eny is just crazy. If you want to handicap a team..........take their 6 best players and move them to another side. NOW WE WILL HAVE SOME GOOD EVEN BATTLES IN THE AIR! The winning side will enjoy better competition. ENY IS JUST NOT WORKING!!!!!! AND MANY DISLIKE EMENSLY!
It may just be that I am not understanding you correctly, but this post makes no sense. If you want things to be "even steven" why are you opposed to something that is intended to offset a side's numerical advantage? Aka not even steven. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Bear on January 09, 2017, 10:39:43 AM
Sucks
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Slate on January 09, 2017, 10:53:27 AM
What really stinks is being the low # country and fighting a 2 front war because it's easier to horde the weaker country. ENY has never bothered me perhaps because I can deal with life's little inconveniences better than others. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Squire on January 09, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Not me.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 09, 2017, 12:44:03 PM
Quote
Keep in mind the root cause of eny restrictions is side imbalance and its effect on base captures and map wins. If posters would address ways to compensate country imbalance then a solution might be forthcoming.
When you can overcome that problem in the AvA and WW1 arena then you will have your answer for ENY. If people are not told or forced to change sides in those two arenas, only a small few do the right thing and not all the time. And yes there were nights only the statistical few who would have populated the DA years earlier, were the last 6 left DAing away at each other. You can get away with force in those arenas, first time Hitech forces people into side balancing in the MA, he cuts his own revenue throat.
I've been 12v2 in those arenas over the years from time to time. And some times the reverse. More often I've been one of the 2. Players want to be with friends, squad, and names they know. Players in this game do not like to loose if they don't have to. Two good examples of the do not like to loose phenomenon:
1. - I used to help Mr. Krabs with his invitational "Kill Krabby" in the DA canyons. Only two rules, stay in the canyon and don't HO. It was usually myself and Kraby against up to 12 in the canyon. We would fly silly rides they would fly power rides, popup out of the canyon and HO to win even with lots of guests on their side. There was a tiny few who showed up regularly and followed the rules fly rides that couldn't turn in the canyon but, they were amazing making those rides work anyway.
2. - During the years I did the alpha testing I could never get anyone to let me shoot their wing panels at close range to test the damage modeling. I always had to fly auto level for them and they always shot too long, and too much, killing the test. And if I threw a few rounds back from a gun position, I was some kind of a horrible person and they would not test with me anymore. It was like asking a gun owner to look down the barrel of an empty revolver and pull the trigger.
The MA has no rules other than the background processes force us to follow a set of requirements to capture fields and win the map. In the face of that, the arena encourages self interest as the highest ethic for your $14.95. Everything else is like High School personality cults where ch200 is used by the self anointed cool kids to shame people into acting like they are back in High School for the same nasty reasons High Schoolers do that garbage to each other today.
Hitech cannot pay people to play nice nor can he afford to force them to play nice beyond irritants like ENY as long as they are not violating the "terms of use" contract. The only thing that drags players along and changes their conduct in the MA is social paradigm shifts that the majority is currently following. The majority is allowing the current paradigm just like it used to be big squads set the arena tempo with missions and NOE base takes. And squads like the muppets and a few others lead the way making personal combat the pinnacle of achievement.
The MA has always been lead by energetic individuals in each country or energetic groups of players called squads who are constantly in the MA doing something and communicating about it. Most subscribers want to follow others doing things that look exciting and fun, who are winning. Even if it comes down to: "follow me in your crotch rocket through that crowd and HO everyone at high speed. Then run out with me, reset and we blow through them again". Works 8 out of 10 passes until the rescue flight arrives from the next field over. And we know just how boring it is to waste your evening climbing just to have the attackers disappear and go to another field while you hold your pud orbiting over an empty field.
We are in a paradigm of no one wants to fight because our game is being played like some xBox first person shooter called "Catch Me if you CAN....".
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 09, 2017, 04:15:29 PM
Then stop logging off. Logging off drops numbers. :aok
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 11, 2017, 01:01:26 AM
War is more fun if you have all advantages .
Why else would people up a number of LA-7's in offensive missions, grouped with highflying bombladen 51D in local odds they simply can not lose ?
They simply dont want be be at any disadvantage at any point whatsoever.
If we had strats that allowed some plane types to be removed along with Perked/ENY X and no ack/flak shooting -many would bomb the enemy to the stoneage, because they can.
It's a game with a handicap for those who have numbers.
ENY should be adjusted locally though - if there is a way to prevent cheating.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bozon on January 11, 2017, 04:04:20 AM
What really stinks is being the low # country and fighting a 2 front war because it's easier to horde the weaker country.
What you described above is the BEST place to be! Especially with ENY blocking the other side from flying their uber rides and I can smite their ENY 20 garbage planes with my ENY 30 super plane.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Shuffler on January 12, 2017, 12:16:56 AM
I am on my second round of flying with the Bishops. My first was about a year ago. I only flew with them for a few months. And now on my second try with them I am experiencing the same problem that occurred the first time. I long in, go to the game and boom! Hit with ENY sign. I never have this problem with the other sides. So I assume the Bishops are the superior side because they seem to get a lead on most maps causing the eny handicap to go into effect right from the beginning of the game. So if the purpose of the game is to win the war (by winning maps) why would you handicap the team that is winning. I know the concept is to make sides even but this method makes it BORING and FRUSTRATING. I don't want to know I'm losing a fair fight and the winning side is being given peashooters to finish my side off. I want to play the other sides even steven and if they beat me - well they were the better team. This eny is just crazy. If you want to handicap a team..........take their 6 best players and move them to another side. NOW WE WILL HAVE SOME GOOD EVEN BATTLES IN THE AIR! The winning side will enjoy better competition. ENY IS JUST NOT WORKING!!!!!! AND MANY DISLIKE EMENSLY!
You do not understand the basics of what eny is. It has to do with numbers and not who is winning. If you are on the side that has many more people on it then you will have eny.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Lazerr on January 12, 2017, 01:42:29 AM
I think wrapping a perk value in with ENY is a win win for everyone.
I don't care myself really, i have fun in just about any plane in here. But at the same time, I understand how some folks like their ride.
It bothered me awhile, but then I found fun in planes like 109g2s, spit5's, and other garbage like that. :D
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: popeye on January 12, 2017, 10:15:02 AM
As suggested elsewhere...
Instead of ENY, modify downtimes according to team player numbers:
Bish 100, Knit 70, Rook 50.
Bish kills Knit ack, downtime = 70/100 * 30min = 21 min. Bish kills Rook ack, downtime = 50/100 * 30 min = 15 min. Knit kills Rook ack, downtime = 50/70 * 30 min = 21 min.
(Rook kills either Bish or Knit ack, downtime = 30 min.)
This would give relief to the low-number sides, without denying anyone their favorite ride. It is also proportional to the numbers imbalance, rather than arbitrary, as are ENY values. It still gives strat bombers a role to play, and won't deter a horde, er... organized strike.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BOBO on January 12, 2017, 11:30:13 AM
I'd like to see area based ENY.
Also, I think ENY should not apply to new players since they're already severely handicapped by lack of experience.
For those of you who hate ENY, the purpose of it is to balance the sides by players changing country.
Yeah it is annoying now that I'm a bishop again but I can have fun until it gets past 20.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: ACE on January 12, 2017, 02:09:08 PM
Also, I think ENY should not apply to new players since they're already severely handicapped by lack of experience.
For those of you who hate ENY, the purpose of it is to balance the sides by players changing country.
Yeah it is annoying now that I'm a bishop again but I can have fun until it gets past 20.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on January 12, 2017, 04:43:46 PM
Why not perk my M when ENY gets too high so I still get to fly the damn thing? :old:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: rvflyer on January 12, 2017, 04:44:55 PM
We all know the purpose of eny but the problem is say Bish have 30 and nits have 15 and rooks have 15 it is still 30 to 30 but bish are handicapped severely. Just throwing out numbers and examples. I would not mind it if somethings like the Warble was not taken away because of ENY and a a couple of tanks so there would at least be a fighting chance for the country with high eny numbers. Oh well it is Dales game to run as he wishes. I have seen players get so frustrated and quit the game though.
You do not understand the basics of what eny is. It has to do with numbers and not who is winning. If you are on the side that has many more people on it then you will have eny.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 12, 2017, 09:15:32 PM
Logged on yesterday - ENY was 16, so I logged off.
Logged on tonight - ENY was 20, so I logged off.
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Oldman731 on January 12, 2017, 09:20:02 PM
We all know what I am - a bedwetting, ack-hugging, alt-grabbing, kill-stealing HO-taking runstang jockey. Not gonna justify that.
Just letting everyone know that, in this time of dwindling numbers, at least one guy who plays AH regularly logs when the ENY is in effect. If I'm the lone schmo who won't jump into a Jug or switch sides, fine.
But if others are logging because of ENY...
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 12, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
Too bad players aren't allowed to ever switch sides to fly their one and only ride. ;)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Lazerr on January 13, 2017, 12:57:34 AM
Too bad players aren't allowed to ever switch sides to fly their one and only ride. ;)
they are, and they are stuck there for 6 hours.
ENY swings wildly.
Having a 6 hour side switch timer contradicts ENY.. big time.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: 1stpar3 on January 13, 2017, 02:41:25 AM
Good point Lazer! I know for me personally, I would be more than happy to go to outnumbered side. Problem is, if i get here at 3 and switch and my guys show up at 5...all we get is SPY SPY SPY! Doesnt really bother me much at all, but that sort of accusing players of stupid crap hurts the game, so I dont do it. Probably hard to pull off,maybe a "squadmates on rook and bish" rook being the side changed to, maybe voiding the swap time when squadies are on or ENY equalizes?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bozon on January 13, 2017, 04:22:42 AM
Too bad players aren't allowed to ever switch sides to fly their one and only ride. ;)
IMHO, switching sides is antithetical to the AH experience. The game is built on relationships and rivalries. The pleasure of teamwork/support and the thrill of rivalries elevates the game from an arcade experience.
For me, switching sides is out the question because I would not shoot at guys like Rocky, Mir, etc.
While I understand that some have no problem switching, I would never do it!
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Wiley on January 13, 2017, 10:48:50 AM
Making people either log or switch sides or play hobbled is the entire point of ENY. So you logging out is actually working as intended.
By what HT says, it's the lesser of the evils having people log as opposed to outnumbering the other side with low ENY planes.
I am still of the opinion being mobbed by p47d11s is not materially different from being mobbed by P51Ds, but that's the stance from HTC.
There've been anti-ENY threads as long as I can remember. This doesn't look to me like the thread that's going to change it.
Wiley.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 13, 2017, 02:54:13 PM
Making people either log or switch sides or play hobbled is the entire point of ENY. So you logging out is actually working as intended.
By what HT says, it's the lesser of the evils having people log as opposed to outnumbering the other side with low ENY planes.
I am still of the opinion being mobbed by p47d11s is not materially different from being mobbed by P51Ds, but that's the stance from HTC.
There've been anti-ENY threads as long as I can remember. This doesn't look to me like the thread that's going to change it.
Wiley.
Well, if HT's intent is to get players to log with ENY, consider this a verification of the success of his design!
Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 13, 2017, 03:14:21 PM
Mutha.
The tools are in your hands and available for you to choose from.
1.) Fly a different plane
2.) Change countries
3.) Log & whine on the boards.
It's you that's stuck in a rut. It's you that has decided you will not switch county's or choose an available aircraft. It's you that needs to take the responsibility for your own fun.
No one has said the system is perfect, I'm convinced there is no perfect system.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 13, 2017, 03:39:39 PM
At least with the new gold text ENY unavailable list, it makes it easier and quicker to find your available rides. And for the players who are viscerally opposed to ENY to the point of logging out or burning up the forums with their anger. Now it's a beneficial flapping gold cape in front of the "Toro Bravo" to be angry about.
It has never been the color of the cape that caused a bull to charge, just the motion, because the bull fighting breed(Toro Bravo) are bred to be aggressive to those motions.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
The tools are in your hands and available for you to choose from.
1.) Fly a different plane
2.) Change countries
3.) Log & whine on the boards.
It's you that's stuck in a rut. It's you that has decided you will not switch county's or choose an available aircraft. It's you that needs to take the responsibility for your own fun.
No one has said the system is perfect, I'm convinced there is no perfect system.
You are right bustr - I'm logging rather than taking the options offered me. The reason I created this thread was not to convince anyone of anything (good luck with this group), but to see how many other folks were logging. While it's my opinion that this is suboptimal design, that's not a slap at HT, who has otherwise built and amazing experience.
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 13, 2017, 05:12:25 PM
The reason I created this thread was not to convince anyone of anything (good luck with this group), but to see how many other folks were logging.
-Mutha
If you're keeping track of your own thread, it seems not to bother most of the players to such a petulant extreme. Using the forum for statistical measurement is a flawed method, anyway. Perhaps if you asked Snail .....
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 13, 2017, 05:19:28 PM
If you're keeping track of your own thread, it seems not to bother most of the players to such a petulant extreme. Using the forum for statistical measurement is a flawed method, anyway. Perhaps if you asked Snail .....
But Arlo, the issue is not the quantity but the quality of the players that choose to log. It's the best people. And by best I mean in air combat prowess, content of character, and physical beauty.
Judged by those standards, this is really a problem!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 13, 2017, 05:21:46 PM
But Arlo, the issue is not the quantity but the quality of the players that choose to log. It's the best people. And by best I mean in air combat prowess, content of character, and physical beauty.
Judged by those standards, this is really a problem!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, ok, now I got it.
I suck because I don't log when Eny is against me.
Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Wiley on January 13, 2017, 05:30:58 PM
But Arlo, the issue is not the quantity but the quality of the players that choose to log. It's the best people. And by best I mean in air combat prowess, content of character, and physical beauty.
Judged by those standards, this is really a problem!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle. :D
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: TheBug on January 13, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
Lately I have switched sides and left my squadron where they are. May the accusations of spying begin! :old:
What an awesome squad you must have. I'd fly a storch before I would leave my squad behind. It is the people that make this game, planes are very much irrelevant.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 13, 2017, 06:21:36 PM
What an awesome squad you must have. I'd fly a storch before I would leave my squad behind. It is the people that make this game, planes are very much irrelevant.
We are a flexible bunch. I love my squadron but I am not paying $15 a month to have my Mustang stuck in the bleeping hangar EVERY SINGLE TIME I log on.
Planes are very MUCH relevant.
Your OPINION is not mine.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 13, 2017, 08:23:28 PM
We are a flexible bunch. I love my squadron but I am not paying $15 a month to have my Mustang stuck in the bleeping hangar EVERY SINGLE TIME I log on.
Planes are very MUCH relevant.
Your OPINION is not mine.
My Mustang hasn't seen the light of day since Tour 156. And before that, Tour 109. That's once in the last 93 Tours. :D :banana:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 13, 2017, 08:29:05 PM
I think ENY would be maybe better off if there was a perk cost rather than delisting the plane.
There has to be more ways to spend perks, and this is one way. That way the people still get to fly their plane if they can afford it in the game.
Personally, I think once the maps are better designed to promote action on all 3 sides, the #s will become neutral again.
The problem with the current map that's on today is, the large TT area creates a barrier between the teams. If all the bases merged into the middle, all 3 sides could be apart of the action. I'm not talking about a TT or Furball island, but merging the teams closer together with base layout would make a big difference.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 13, 2017, 08:50:19 PM
Or, just take out the middle TT area and leave the rest. That way tankers will be forced to fight offence defense and not just hide in the middle. Without TT or anything in the middle, it would promote fights around the map.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: TheBug on January 13, 2017, 10:32:51 PM
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Copprhed on January 13, 2017, 11:48:30 PM
ENY does what it's intended..if you don't want to switch sides, or fly a different plane, tough, quit whining like 12 year olds. Or better yet...don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Some players leaving would be no loss.....
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2017, 11:50:25 PM
ENY does what it's intended..if you don't want to switch sides, or fly a different plane, tough, quit whining like 12 year olds. Or better yet...don't let the door hit ya on the way out. Some players leaving would be no loss.....
Excellent philosophy!. (Or not.) A tad shortsighted but hey, it's a free country.
*Cue Meditative Mood Music*
And now Deep Thoughts, by Killer V....
"Once I mocked everyone for complaining about ENY. 'It works as intended!' I laughed. Then one day I found myself the only player in the arena and my ENY was 35. That wasn't so funny."
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 14, 2017, 12:39:16 AM
"Once I mocked everyone for complaining about ENY. 'It works as intended!' I laughed. Then one day I found myself the only player in the arena and my ENY was 35. That wasn't so funny."
(color=maroon is actually perfect for all your posts.)
You've always seemed to have a bit of trouble with the words 'everyone', 'all', 'many', majority' and Cod knows you've wanted to be important here.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 14, 2017, 08:34:26 AM
...and so my plan to turn a discussion about a game feature into an incoherent flame war has succeeded!
(http://i.imgur.com/EsIxJnD.gif)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bozon on January 14, 2017, 10:52:39 AM
We all know the purpose of eny but the problem is say Bish have 30 and nits have 15 and rooks have 15 it is still 30 to 30 but bish are handicapped severely. Just throwing out numbers and examples. I would not mind it if somethings like the Warble was not taken away because of ENY and a a couple of tanks so there would at least be a fighting chance for the country with high eny numbers. Oh well it is Dales game to run as he wishes. I have seen players get so frustrated and quit the game though.
Like I said.... You do not understand eny. There are three sides so using your method of math is could also be 30 against 0.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Shuffler on January 14, 2017, 01:07:02 PM
I think ENY would be maybe better off if there was a perk cost rather than delisting the plane.
There has to be more ways to spend perks, and this is one way. That way the people still get to fly their plane if they can afford it in the game.
Personally, I think once the maps are better designed to promote action on all 3 sides, the #s will become neutral again.
The problem with the current map that's on today is, the large TT area creates a barrier between the teams. If all the bases merged into the middle, all 3 sides could be apart of the action. I'm not talking about a TT or Furball island, but merging the teams closer together with base layout would make a big difference.
This might work if the LW planes were handicapped more than they are now perk wise. Meaning you are awarded even less perks when flying them than you are now. Also when you buy them out of eny you receive no perks in that flight.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 14, 2017, 01:14:47 PM
This might work if the LW planes were handicapped more than they are now perk wise. Meaning you are awarded even less perks when flying them than you are now. Also when you buy them out of eny you receive no perks in that flight.
I could agree with that!
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: LilMak on January 14, 2017, 04:09:31 PM
Still think ENY should only make those rides affected by it become perk planes on a sliding scale as it gets more imbalanced.
You want you 51D? Fine. Just costs you 5 perks to fly it. Odds are 300-1 and you still want that 51 for the gang bang? Fine. Now it costs 1000 perks.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 14, 2017, 05:27:55 PM
Still think ENY should only make those rides affected by it become perk planes on a sliding scale as it gets more imbalanced.
You want you 51D? Fine. Just costs you 5 perks to fly it. Odds are 300-1 and you still want that 51 for the gang bang? Fine. Now it costs 1000 perks.
Totally support that idea!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 17, 2017, 06:53:44 PM
The ability of this community to debate any subject into inanity is legendary. Suggestions piled on ideas piled on foundation of the bodies and minds of PLAYERS. HiTech, you got to decide what to do, not the community. People here will continue to choose what they are doing right NOW and you can see how that works.
The bottom line is this.
1. THE GAME KEEPS SHRINKING. Anyone who believes otherwise has their head firmly tucked into the sand. 2. The game keeps shrinking because it becomes less fun than reruns on TV. That is the competition in this age set and a low bar. 3. ENY makes people log off because it shrinks the pool of players for WHATEVER REASON. You can attack the messenger or see what is. 4. ENY is a condition of AH, when ENY or anything else is too onerous people will watch TV. 5. HTC what are you going to do? It is ok that the answer is more of the same but keep in mind it gave us the game of today. 6. This is a suggestion, do what you want. If you do what you want till the place is empty, that is your prerogative. 7. Marking out the planes you can't fly put a bandaid on a spurting artery. It didn't solve the problem.
You gotta be smarter than the debate. You will always find someone to represent the tiny number of users doing something. You have to decide what will make this game grow. There will be lots of people standing by the grave of AH if it tanks saying, "If they only did what I had in my head" but few of them have ever been game designers or ever will be. Believe it or not but its has been obvious where things are headed for YEARS. You live and die by your choices. If you want things to be different you have to make different choices. Look at the trail of choices leading to here and do something different that what has always been.
I will respectfully suggest that the graphics upgrade didn't do it to the extent that is needed by itself. AH3 is not close to regaining the former glory of 800 people in an arena.
I'll humbly suggest that this game needs working change, not more debate. The debate in this community leads right here.
Thanks!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 17, 2017, 10:53:03 PM
A solid, tactfully presented case.
In the meantime I suggest coming up with ways to interject the game into social media. Talk radio, Facebook, bumper stickers, email signatures, whatever it takes.
Just throw the game name around--a lot. Gratuitously if necessary. Spread the word.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 18, 2017, 11:11:29 AM
You must be musing something then about ENY in general.......
Nope.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 18, 2017, 02:48:19 PM
Thank you, as of today we have something firm from yourself rather than two sides projecting what they wish Mr. Hitech will decide. It is still musing, just not the musing some want to hear from yourself.
And it's a definitive answer since uncertainty leaves holes to be creatively filled..... :lol
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 18, 2017, 11:19:34 PM
I would suggest to please start thinking about it. There is no reason for ENY to be ironclad, its a feature like ANY other.
Today is ELEVEN DAYS IN A ROW WHERE KNIGHTS HAVE HAD ENY GREATER THAN 5.0 FOR 1-3 HOURS IN PRIME TIME. That's in a game that has only about 4 hours of prime time PER day.
If the system worked and Knights consistently had the numbers we would see that the Knights were winning an inordinate number of maps. I can state categorically that isn't happening. If ENY works just show us the stats, please show how its growing the community. IMHO, its hard to see for the crowd of people that leave when they hit it.
I will humbly suggest you have these kinds of features: 1. Stuff that works well when it is 800 per arena but doesn't at 100. 2. Stuff that works at 100 per arena.
or
A. Stuff that attracts people to play B. Stuff that drives them insane and away.
I'll suggest that our Venn diagram has an intersection of 1 and B right now. This game can't tolerate a lot more of B and keep running since it REQUIRES people to be playing to work.
I'll humbly suggest that you put all the B features in a pile and take them out of the game, NOW. You can afford them when the population is healthier. Removing them when the population is below critical is way too late.
As a practical matter, do you really care how many times the map turns over and who wins? The server reset is automatic. It can turn 3 times a day if people are playing and the numbers are increasing. With the numbers in the tank, thinking of what increases them is a good thing.
-People having fun means they play more, more days, more hours, more money. -People PO'd means they quit and stop paying.
Pretending that ENY gets people to play and pay is a forlorn hope. It is a fiction of this game and NO OTHER anywhere. It has no parallel in real life. So why does it exist?
If the idea of life without ENY is too scary, then take a small bite. I can pretty much guarantee you could kill ENY tomorrow and you would not see any requests for it to return after 3 months. It solves a developer problem NOT a player problem. The players don't see its benefits, only its negatives. The first team would be against the first team against the first team. NOT the first team against the third team for days on end.
At the bare minimum base it on inflight numbers and cut it completely when the arena falls below 60 inflight. It makes no sense to have ENY when the battle is between 3 on one side and 5 on the other.
Again, I humbly suggest that it is past time to get real. Living in a fictional world where we can keep doing the same thing and expect something different is just an illusion. Believing that the turn around in numbers is just around the corner is just not happening. Take a dose of reality and CHANGE!
Thanks!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 18, 2017, 11:25:43 PM
Well stated. ^^^^^
This is an example of, "Because we've always done it that way."
But asking for a change means we are narrow thinkers, not end users who suffer.
YMMV. :salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: FESS67 on January 19, 2017, 02:19:40 AM
I am no fan of ENY and would be happy to see it go. It is a tool that impacts individual players in individual ways and does not impact the whole community equally. That is why we get such polarized views on the subject.
Some are happy to use different planes, some log off, some tank or bomb. I usually log off.
Hitech would go mad trying to please everyone so it is understandable that he would not make a change to a system with so many differing views, he is likely to simply create a different argument.
Rapier, you and your squad fly the 51's very passively and it is very frustrating to see you run at the first sign of parity in a fight. I know of people who have logged out due to the frustration of chasing you guys all over the map.
Perhaps heed your own advice and be prepared to make a change yourself and fly a different plane. I can go to 12 ENY before I call it quits. I much prefer to fly the 51 but have some other options, give something like the P47M a go.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Owlblink on January 19, 2017, 05:26:12 AM
Just for craps and giggles, why not put out a vote in game (like there was back in AH 2 for voting on new planes) for the theoretical abolishment of the current ENY system being as it is. This way all of the community can be measured in a month's time (including those players that do not get around to checking the BBS) on their opinion of the ENY. From there the developers can make a decision of what to do and how to do it. If it passes a great majority for it to be changed, a vote could go out on a few of these ideas if HTC doesn't feel comfortable changing it in a way that they fear would hurt the number of subscriptions.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zoney on January 19, 2017, 10:42:21 AM
Just for craps and giggles, why not put out a vote in game (like there was back in AH 2 for voting on new planes) for the theoretical abolishment of the current ENY system being as it is. This way all of the community can be measured in a month's time (including those players that do not get around to checking the BBS) on their opinion of the ENY. From there the developers can make a decision of what to do and how to do it. If it passes a great majority for it to be changed, a vote could go out on a few of these ideas if HTC doesn't feel comfortable changing it in a way that they fear would hurt the number of subscriptions.
If the voting decided to implement something against the game's best interest, then what?
The customer (us) is not always right.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 19, 2017, 11:34:09 AM
This is an example of, "Because we've always done it that way."
YMMV. :salute
Why do you believe you know what I think? In fact making a statement like that when you considered how many player suggestions I implement in this game is rather insulting.
I have read every ENY complaint post and ALMOST ALL ideas on changing ENY are to make it LESS intrusive, I.E. less of a motive to change sides.
People have been complaining about Kill Shooter since it was created. Unless someone comes up with a new idea that I have never heard of , it's NOT going to change.
People have complained about collisions since it was created. It is NOT going to change.
People complain about ENY it is NOT going to change to a less intrusive system.
My view is that I may need MORE of an incentive to switch sides or possible force people to switch sides. ---------
All 3 of these things have ! thing in common, they are almost always complained about only from a ME ME ME view point, and NOT from a game balance / what are the other consequences of the change.
P.S. For those interested here is how ENY came about.
Why do you believe you know what I think? In fact making a statement like that when you considered how many player suggestions I implement in this game is rather insulting.
No insult intended. But on this issue inaction speaks louder than words.
Quote
I have read every ENY complaint post and ALMOST ALL ideas on changing ENY are to make it LESS intrusive, I.E. less of a motive to change sides.
People have been complaining about Kill Shooter since it was created. Unless someone comes up with a new idea that I have never heard of , it's NOT going to change.
People have complained about collisions since it was created. It is NOT going to change.
People complain about ENY it is NOT going to change to a less intrusive system.
My view is that I may need MORE of an incentive to switch sides or possible force people to switch sides. ---------
All 3 of these things have ! thing in common, they are almost always complained about only from a ME ME ME view point, and NOT from a game balance / what are the other consequences of the change.
P.S. For those interested here is how ENY came about.
And with all due respect, sir, you are being...stubborn...wth this thinking. I mean that nicely, in a constructive manner. ENY does not induce sideswitching, it induces logging off. If you double down on this you'll have an empty arena.
Intransigence is not in and of itself an asset. It has to be situationally applied. In the case of ENY you're missing the forest for the trees. This is what Fess, Rapier, et al. are trying to get across.
Others have correctly pointed out that ENY and sideswitch limits work in opposition to one another.
Maybe it is chess piece loyalty. Maybe it is map layout. Maybe it is three sides instead of two. I don't know. People are not switching sides, they're logging out. That's counterproductive.
Perhaps if sides were just colors people would not be so tribal--far be it for me to make a definitive statement on that one--but ENY needs fixing. It is basically a pain in the rearend right now.
:salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 19, 2017, 11:49:52 AM
Here, it will be easier for this conversation If I paste your opening to the post you linked:
Quote
To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.
But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack. We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides close to balance.
Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.
This would have a few effects.
1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.
2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.
Your thoughts?
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2017, 11:53:17 AM
Here, it will be easier for this conversation If I paste your opening to the post you linked:
We have already read this.
That's the whole problem Rapier is referring to.
Hitech actually ADVOCATES players logging off. When the arena had 600 players or even 300 that may have been an acceptable "solution" to side imbalance but when you have 60 players (only a fraction of whom are actually in flight) it is not.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 19, 2017, 12:02:38 PM
Hitech actually ADVOCATES players logging off. When the arena had 600 players or even 300 that may have been an acceptable "solution" to side imbalance but when you have 60 players (only a fraction of whom are actually in flight) it is not.
AGAIN YOU TRY CLAIM WHAT I THINK. And you are wrong.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2017, 12:06:12 PM
AGAIN YOU TRY CLAIM WHAT I THINK. And you are wrong.
HiTech
I am going where the evidence leads me. :salute
Quote
To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.
But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack. We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides close to balance.
Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.
This would have a few effects.
1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.
2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.
Your thoughts?
HiTech
Perks to counter ENY, penalty-free switching to the low side, elimination/mitigation of ENY when numbers are below a certain level... Why NOT try it?
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES doesn't seem to be the most effective solution here.
Thanks for the changes you HAVE made at player request. The dar rings are a prime example. :cheers:
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: popeye on January 19, 2017, 12:44:24 PM
So, is ENY supposed to encourage players to switch sides to balance numbers? Or, is it supposed to mitigate the effect of numbers imbalance by handicapping the stronger side? (Or, both? Or, neither?)
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Lazerr on January 19, 2017, 12:49:31 PM
I really dont think getting folks to sit in the tower or log off is a good way to go? Nothing about it sounds good. Perking aircraft based on their ENY value when side balancing is enabled sounds much better IMO.
I think the last thing we need though is LESS action.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 19, 2017, 01:00:27 PM
I really dont think getting folks to sit in the tower or log off is a good way to go? Nothing about it sounds good. Perking aircraft based on their ENY value when side balancing is enabled sounds much better IMO.
I think the last thing we need though is LESS action.
Not really liking the idea of allowing the high side to have uber rides, but if it keeps people from logging off, it would be an acceptable compromise.
Next we'll get an avalanche of threads from the same people, demanding everything to be un-perked. :old:
An alternative idea would be to shorten the side switch time, based on the number of players in game. :aok
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: SPKmes on January 19, 2017, 01:38:52 PM
Coming from a guy who plays at a time when numbers are.....low and uses a plane which I have only once not been able to use(about 5/6 years ago)...I feel ENY is a little over the top... at these times of low population the use of low Eny planes and tanks really isn't going to swing things too much....To my mind there should be a minimum number on before ENY engages...Personally not fussed either way...The side change times should be lowered at these numbers too... what's the magic number...i don't know....but it is pretty dismal at times for me and those who mostly get to play at our times....The restrictions in place with the low numbers are frustrating... yes this is a personal thing as I like to fight planes wirbs sitting shut down waiting...and when Eny kicks in with Low numbers that is what it resorts to....quite seriously 1 person can really make ENY jump at my timezone/population numbers...crazy
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2017, 01:41:07 PM
Coming from a guy who plays at a time when numbers are.....low and uses a plane which I have only once not been able to use(about 5/6 years ago)...I feel ENY is a little over the top... at these times of low population the use of low Eny planes and tanks really isn't going to swing things too much....To my mind there should be a minimum number on before ENY engages...Personally not fussed either way...The side change times should be lowered at these numbers too... what's the magic number...i don't know....but it is pretty dismal at times for me and those who mostly get to play at our times....The restrictions in place with the low numbers are frustrating... yes this is a personal thing as I like to fight planes wirbs sitting shut down waiting...and when Eny kicks in with Low numbers that is what it resorts to....quite seriously 1 person can really make ENY jump at my timezone/population numbers...crazy
This perfectly illustrates the problem. Well said.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 19, 2017, 03:49:45 PM
To summarize, this argument is not about whether ENY balances numbers on a side (it doesn't but that is a whole other topic). It is NOT about how someone flies or tactics they use (but thanks for that thought). It is about sheer numbers in the game. How many people play and how many sit in the tower or leave. This is about having a game wide view, not a "me" view that says what is good for me.
I can tell you from experience, but you don't have to believe me, people leave or sit in the tower. Typically when ENY hits with 60 people on the side, 20 or 1/3 are in the tower. There are also calls of people leaving the game, others just see it and go watch reruns. I'd call that pretty NON working. You can tell me its a total success but this kind of total success gives us what we have today. Personally, I don't find watching someone smack themselves in the forehead with a hammer entertaining.
ENY as a thing, drives people to do this. Is this the desired result? If it isn't, it has to change. The thread referenced only states it was a great idea ELEVEN YEARS AGO. Eleven years ago there were a lot of people playing this game! This is today and today we have a problem with numbers playing the game. ENY drives them to leave or not play. SO IS IT WORKING NOW?
I have absolutely no urge to tell you what you think or to win favor in this forum. I'm only pointing to what is happening, day after day, as the numbers slowly dwindle. There are other ideas to make the numbers rise but that is another topic. In this case, no one can make it more clear.
1. Numbers are dropping and the slide under the present set of circumstances shows no trend of stopping. 2. ENY drives them away 3. Does the feature increase numbers? Yes or No??
Ask yourself which is better, trying to find employment as a developer or bending and making changes to increase numbers here? It is possible to win all the arguments by closing the game down. That will show all the so and so's how the world is made. But that is limiting. It is far harder and more rewarding to make the choice to change. This game has all the basics to be a much greater success than it is. Why it is not is baffling to everyone who knows how it works. I will humbly suggest that one thing is absolutely clear at this point:
*The past decisions repeated lead to where we are TODAY. It is proved already, you don't have to re-prove it by making the same choice. *If the goal is to be different then BE DIFFERENT! MAKE ANOTHER DIFFERENT CHOICE THAN BEFORE. *It isn't about making minor modifications to features that makes the negative ones work. The feature itself IS the problem.
At this point there isn't a whole lot more to lose.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 19, 2017, 04:23:12 PM
Your are assuming ENY has no effect on side %. That assumption would be false.
Think what happens with out ENY. Imbalance get worse, people get more upset because there side is always less people, some of the upset people change to high side and leave making problem worse.
Thats what was happening pre eny.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
Your are assuming ENY has no effect on side %. That assumption would be false.
Think what happens with out ENY. Imbalance get worse, people get more upset because there side is always less people, some of the upset people change to high side and leave making problem worse.
Thats what was happening pre eny.
HiTech
I will take imbalance over a lowly populated arena.
I defended against the Jokers on one of their base taking streaks all by myself once awhile back. It was a blast. Then ENY kicked in and they logged off little by little until the fight died off. That sucked. How did ENY help me in that case? It didn't. It ruined my fun.
What I see now is that every time I log in I am hit with ENY. I logoff in frustration and I am not alone. If all of us who logged had an incentive to stay the numbers might rise to a point where ENY would again serve its purpose.
ENY of 25 when my team has 12 players in flight is, frankly, insane.
There has to be a better way to achieve your goal. You're using a sledgehammer to drive a nail...
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Owlblink on January 19, 2017, 04:33:19 PM
Your are assuming ENY has no effect on side %. That assumption would be false.
Think what happens with out ENY. Imbalance get worse, people get more upset because there side is always less people, some of the upset people change to high side and leave making problem worse.
Thats what was happening pre eny.
HiTech
Appriciate the more informing reply.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 19, 2017, 05:59:45 PM
Your are assuming ENY has no effect on side %. That assumption would be false.
Think what happens with out ENY. Imbalance get worse, people get more upset because there side is always less people, some of the upset people change to high side and leave making problem worse.
Thats what was happening pre eny.
HiTech
I remember this, it sucked to suddenly be out numbered by guys in high end rides clobbering you with numbers because some threshold was reached for loosing to one of the other two sides, and people wanted to fly on the winning side. So they started hopping to the winning side for the easy kills.
Hopping due to ENY tends to be risky because more often you hop from lots of action with garbage rides to suddenly wondering where everyone is. It always seemed like when POTW hopped to the rooks that all the action dissipated. The bish seem to have enough guys these days and don't need to hop. And if we could have hopped again as soon as we found the action dissipated, we would have made ENY worse for the knights by coming back. When there are "numbers", being able to switch quickly would be a bad thing because ENY would be forced out of hand due to chasing the action.
So if there is honestly a late night problem due to below 25 players per side or worse every late night now. Will that small community's human nature act any different than the prime time large community when it comes to wanting easy kills, not getting killed and winning? I've popped in late night from time to time, ENY can be outlandish. And when it's not, guys are in the tower doing nothing like guys were in the tower doing nothing on nights I saw ENY out of hand. I was curious to see how bad it really could get. Most players today don't want to be in fights alone or with low numbers. And they don't care about "the fight" as much as getting easy kills any way they can and not loosing.
This unflattering yard stick got us ENY in the first place because it describes the largest part of the MA community and how most humans approach life in general. Every change Hitech has given us that eventually had a negative untended consequence, this yard stick was the motivator. The membership of this forum may well be willing to defer gratification for the good of the community to make their ideas work. Those others won't and will gleefully abuse your ideas with that yard stick.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zoney on January 19, 2017, 06:06:10 PM
I'm going to introduce a new product that I think this game could greatly benefit from.
Undies De-Bundler.
Yep. it's going to immediately take care of your Undies being in a Bundle.
I'm going to call it 'Scotch", and sell it by the quart.
Ground floor opportunity here, looking for investors.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: The Fugitive on January 19, 2017, 06:57:40 PM
But only once until their team is no longer the low numbered team.
Is the idea that you can switch at will to only the low number side? What happens if your team switches and is still the low number side? Is it possible to create an oscillation cascade all evening then by multiple jumps to follow the low side? If something is possible it will be done just to see what will happen to kill some time.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 19, 2017, 08:33:59 PM
DAY 12 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME.
Here is the reality. You go in, have to wait for the arena frame rates to stabilize before you can up. Then you find ENY! surprise! Then you mess around trying to get a plane so you can fly this game you PAY $14.95 per month for. You have to do it a few times because ENY keeps changing, going up like a rocket (wait for it). When you finally take up a jug you have to fly a million miles to get to a fight. When you do, a guy in a 163 is there from the enemy side because ENY is so out of whack. A plane that actually shot down 17 planes in WWII and had no effect on the world conflict. (bazinga!) This actually happened, TONIGHT.
Just saying, who wants to sign up for this? Would you? Seriously, step out of debate mode. Why on earth would you do this with 40 on your side total? Try it and see how it works. PLEASE! This is a tragic demotivator. Do this several times and you wonder what you get for paying for the game.
If you want to defend ENY to the death so be it. It is not my job to talk you out of seeing reality. You want to know why the game is empty, its been said to you and you go back to saying the same old things again and again. The same old got us here. Dealing with ENY isn't near as bad as dealing with EMPTY.
Debate may be fun but I don't really want to pay to do it. Its like "buying an argument." Pointless.
Thanks!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2017, 08:44:07 PM
Just saying, who wants to sign up for this? Would you? Seriously step out of debate mode. Why on earth would you do this with 40 on your side total? Try it and see how it works. PLEASE!
:bhead
You're right again.
Sigh.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Oldman731 on January 19, 2017, 09:15:50 PM
Then you find ENY! surprise! Then you mess around trying to get a plane so you can fly this game you PAY $14.95 per month for.
Many of us wonder: Why don't you pick a different plane?
I mean, really. This game has scads of planes, through all ENY levels, which are useful against the 51Ds and Doras. Wouldn't it be a pleasant learning experience to be able to fly some of them? Are people really that chained to one, or a few, rides? And if you are (looks sideways at Ack-Ack and +Tiff), why not switch sides?
- oldman
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 19, 2017, 09:18:08 PM
I could switch sides for free. I just couldn't do it willy-nilly. The reason the system is what it is and has been for awhile has been explained (thoroughly and reasonably). Switching used to have a 12 hour restriction. Life is good. Amen.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Volron on January 19, 2017, 10:28:30 PM
Side switching? What is that? :P
There have been a scant few times that ENY has kept me from using the B-17 or B-24 (and it's rare for me to use the 29 to begin with). If it did, not like I had a shortage of bombers to choose from. :) The 20mm on the Ki-67 and G4M1 still surprise folks, thinking they had easy meat. :devil
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 19, 2017, 10:41:05 PM
With smaller numbers in the MA compared to say the LWMA split arena days. I wonder back then if ENY helping players to side switch was easier because the country populations were out of scope for the Dunbar's Number principle. With a smaller population most players in each country know each other well enough that Dunbar's Number is met in terms of social relationships. Social relationships are a strong factor with smaller groups including identity or in our case country loyalty. Just another way to describe loyalty to people you are close with.
So maybe ENY needs to have some flexibility to reflect the human nature of Dunbar's Number. I cannot believe everyone throwing down with Hitech in this case is just about launching a few shots to get even and sour grapes over the past. I also don't think ganging up on Hitech with 50mm I'm unhappy cannons will convince him of much.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Volron on January 19, 2017, 11:45:47 PM
But wasn't it also just 1 hour time limit during the split arena days? I remember it being like that at least. I honestly do not remember when HiTech bumped up the time limit for side switching (to 12 hours), though I believe it was just before or when the dual arena thing was dropped. Bit foggy on that one. :headscratch:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: nkp514 on January 20, 2017, 06:44:11 AM
Does nothing but make people log.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Scca on January 20, 2017, 07:52:40 AM
No matter what anyones opinion of it is, it is driving players out of of the game, its that simple.
Doesnt seem like a good thing to me.
Anything can possibly "drive a player out of the game." Or at least it'll be their excuse. In reality, the player drove them-self (only to haunt us all in the forum). Then there are the players that claim this'll drive them (and others) from the game but stay in neutral while trying to convince the community via the forum that this is driving them (and others) from the game ..... in droves .... huge droves.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Lazerr on January 20, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
Why would they make an excuse as to why they are not happy?
Ive got quite a bit of time flying this month, and the displeasure with ENY on both country and open channel should be a red flag.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Bruv119 on January 20, 2017, 11:41:58 AM
scca thats the problem with AH too many girly men! :D
who would rather make forum or FB posts than logging in and getting some!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zardoz on January 20, 2017, 11:50:03 AM
ENY doesn't bother me a bit.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zardoz on January 20, 2017, 11:55:07 AM
ENY is fine just the way it is. Only my opinion, but I wanted to say it just to counter all the whining.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 20, 2017, 12:15:42 PM
Why would they make an excuse as to why they are not happy?
Such is human nature, and I have seen this happen more then I can begin to count.
It goes something like this, player is not having as much fun as they used to (in reality nothing has changed with how the game works). Player starts looking for reasons that the game must be making them not having as much fun as they used to. They find something and state it is the reason they are happy. Strange thing is you change it and they still are not having fun.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Randy1 on January 20, 2017, 12:30:14 PM
So when 8 or so switch, we get penalized on the other side of the ball?
There's options you apparently don't like:
1) Learn to love a plane that isn't affected by ENY all that much.
2) Make MORE friends.
3) Dare to switch sides without hand-holding.
Your misery sounds a lot like stubborn inflexibility.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Lazerr on January 20, 2017, 01:25:12 PM
I believe you missed the part where this isnt about me. I am quite comfortable flying planes throughout the set. You cant bait me into your pissing match.
I will however post here and share opinions i gather through gameplay and hell... even here on the BBS.
If there was misery invovled on my part, I would log or close my account.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 20, 2017, 01:26:37 PM
I believe you missed the part where this isnt about me. I am quite comfortable flying planes throughout the set. You cant bait me into your pissing match.
I will however post here and share opinions i gather through gameplay and hell... even here on the BBS.
As will I. So .... who's it about?
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Lazerr on January 20, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
The folks invovled in the two 5 page posts about ENY, and players discussed with online during gameplay.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 20, 2017, 01:35:08 PM
The folks invovled in the two 5 page posts about ENY, and players discussed with online during gameplay.
Seems to be about three or four players, then. Everyone else has given their best suggestions on how to get over it.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 20, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
Couple of anecdotal things.
Years ago a bunch of squad CO's decided to show Hitech that players in the MA could in fact be organized into an air force and carry out a mission for the duration of an evening. That being to shut down the MA by organized force of numbers. Anecdotally: That organized block of players represented a driving force of game control by accident that would have taken control of the MA from HTC at the whim of the CO's organizing it. To retain control Hitech created ENY which has remained pretty benign until recently.
Anecdotally: Recently ENY seems to kick in for the knights and bish as an almost nightly effect around the same time periods in prime time. It's like suddenly there is a block of rooks gone from the arena or in the two other countries. Late night after prime time ENY is unfortunately a product low numbers.
By accident years ago a group of organized players forced Hitech to create an arena modifying mechanism. Ok, so I asked myself, self, if I wanted ENY modifed today with the current low numbers, how could I impact the arena to force Hitech to respond and change ENY? Organize a player walkout or country alternating night shift at a specific time to trigger ENY as many nights a week as possible. The screeching in the forums would ramp up to a MOB level something like the 12 hour insurrection by the old muppet squad. And ENY itself would be it's own worst enemy due to players logging out and maybe threatening subscription cancellations.
Then reality took control and I thought to myself, self, these guys love this game too much to take a chance on killing it to try and force Hitech to do what they wanted. Anecdotally: POTW changed to rooks one squad night thinking our 16 players would be enough to even the sides to return ENY to "0". Our numbers did diddlysquat to the ENY monster and all the fights suddenly disappeared that we were watching on the map minutes before...... :O
I seriously doubt anyone is this well organized in the MA anymore.
So back to your regularly scheduled "I'm unhappy hear me screech!" programming...... :noid
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 20, 2017, 02:41:30 PM
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 20, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
Mileage may vary, even the P51B is a better plane than any of those I fly, If I don't meet buffs, that is, and it's a ENY20 plane
Meeting a good LA-7 pilot co-e is certain death in the planes I fly. Most are not good enough though, which probably have saved them from being perked.
If I did not want a challenge I could use my 23k perk points.
We are a flexible bunch. I love my squadron but I am not paying $15 a month to have my Mustang stuck in the bleeping hangar EVERY SINGLE TIME I log on.
Planes are very MUCH relevant.
Your OPINION is not mine.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 20, 2017, 05:20:28 PM
Mileage may vary, even the P51B is a better plane than any of those I fly, If I don't meet buffs, that is, and it's a ENY20 plane
Meeting a good LA-7 pilot co-e is certain death in the planes I fly. Most are not good enough though, which probably have saved them from being perked.
If I did not want a challenge I could use my 23k perk points.
Noob. :neener:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 20, 2017, 06:51:03 PM
Cant wait until Caldera get his ENY 60 Zeppelin into melee arean :P
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: molybdenum on January 20, 2017, 09:16:16 PM
We are a flexible bunch. I love my squadron but I am not paying $15 a month to have my Mustang stuck in the bleeping hangar EVERY SINGLE TIME I log on.
Planes are very MUCH relevant.
Your OPINION is not mine.
Jeez. so fly rook. They NEVER have ENY nowadays. If it's that big a deal, get the squad to fly rook: rooks need all the help they can get nowadays. Some people whine just to whine.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 21, 2017, 04:46:39 PM
DAY 13 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME! IT RAN FOR OVER 4 HOURS.
You know what the nearly last half of the month looked like, or would if you actually looked at the stats.
Put yourself in the place of a player. How long is it before you conclude that the game design and ENY is faulty? How long is it before YOU decide that its just not worth it? That the developer for no real reason, is wedded to the past in an iron clad way.
This game once had THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS. The MMO WWII air combat genre once had nearly 100k players. Now ask yourself, where did they all go? Statistically they didn't all die. You offer in an ironclad way, the same game play that brought them here. Why on the green earth, do they not play now? Are the other games so enticing? I will humbly offer an idea. The blind intransigence that says that this game was perfect at a certain point and won't, CAN'T be changed in any meaningful way tells people that THIS is for sale and nothing else. It tells them, like this very particular incarnation or quit. Like THIS or go find something else. YOU tell them this. They choose WITH THEIR FEET and go somewhere else. The pretty new graphics don't bring them herding in. The hole left by AH is amply filled with re-runs. If that doesn't hurt then you really need to reexamine what you think.
Blind obstinacy is not an endearing trait in any individual, ever. Whether you can see it or not, people totally understand the "My way or the highway" manner in which this game is run in. I'm sure you don't talk to the people that have left but others do having made friendships that last for decades and will out last this game. You can watch your friends leave for years and pretty soon the reason that you were in the game has disappeared. The game play itself did not keep you here, THE PEOPLE DID!!!!
Nearly universally, the comment I hear back in trying to entice people to try it again is, "It's never going to change, HiTech is never going to change. HiTech will never listen. Why bother?"
I personally have found I can't even get them to enter the forum for this reason, even to find solutions for why the game isn't working for them. If you are looking for the reason why people leave and don't return, just think about that.
If this is what you intend then you are succeeding and please don't change. But if you want this game to grow, then really think about this. How much and how often and in how many different ways do you need to be told before it sinks in? If doing the same dang thing over and over brought you a game that is less than 1/10th the size it used to be, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. You are a smart guy doing some really incomprehensible things. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
Why for the love of Pete are you married to ENY?
You will find that this will be true for anything that you have decided is part of what AH is. Sometimes the human body needs surgery to remain alive, to grow. A tree needs pruning to get bigger. A plant needs to be repotted into a bigger pot to grow. DO YOU SEE WHERE THIS IS GOING??
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 21, 2017, 05:19:38 PM
DAY 13 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME! IT RAN FOR OVER 4 HOURS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blind obstinacy is not an endearing trait in any individual, ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why for the love of Pete are you married to ENY?
Over 4 hours? So it's not a case of switching sides and minutes later ENY follows you. Why are you 'married' to Knights?
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 21, 2017, 06:01:06 PM
Rapier a population control mechanism is needed because we have seen in 15 years players look for any way they can to disrupt the arena just to do it. And the newer generations have grown up in games where you are a hero if you pull it off, and will keep trying if no one stops them.
At the beginning of AH before ENY, it looks like Hitech trusted us all to do the right thing and just have fun flying and fighting. Until an organized group decided to not do the right thing and people canceled their subscriptions over it because that group crapped on them because they could get away with it. And they gained supporters each week because it was better to swing the bat than take it in the knees. You may have known some of the original organizers of the weekly knee capping event.
So do we want to go back to that and one evening just can't get of the ground at any base in our favorite crotch rockets because some group is sticking it in Hitech's eye over something again?
We lost numbers 8 years ago because of economics and not, Hitech drove your freinds away. 94 million people soon had real life reasons to stop spending money on games and other entertainment. The economy will pick up again now with the change in DC. AH3 is live and still requires tweeking by Hitech which is a full time endeavor at this time. Screaming at him will not change the fact he has a to do list of code tweeking that has to be addressed while there is only him, Waffle and Skuzzy. And the small things like the quick change of the clip board map rolled out in one day was just that. "A small change" for Hitech to introduce a quick change inspired by a player's wish list that day who doesn't scream at it him on a regular basis. You can always change countries to stay in your favorite crotch rocket based on how ENY was designed to control the population. If you don't want to change, then you wait out being stuck with inferior rides.
Almost sounds like two sides in a supreme court case arguing the country has to allow customers to take over ownership of private companies when they disagree with the owner based on paradigm shifts in the economy.
Plaintiff: Your honor, the owner is obviously stuck in the previous industry paradigm and is doing grievous harm to his customers. We believe the only way to save the company from him, is to take over ownership of the company and guidance of his creative abilities to achieve a net positive social outcome for the customer. Originally we collectively argued with him in good faith that he was on the wrong track for any positive social outcome for his customers. He ignored our arguments in favor of his own reasons for not doing what we deemed necessary for the good of his customers.
Justice: And at any point do you ever give back full control of the company to the creative owner, and how do you keep him creating the product for you if he just walks away? Can you create this product yourself? And why were his reasons inferior to yours?
Plaintiff: We had not thought the owner would want to walk away or he would have done so before forcing us to this point. And no we cannot create the same product. As for his inferior reasons to ours, his reasons placed limits on our enjoyment of his product based on an out of date rules system that we collectively agreed had to be changed to save his company from himself.
Justice: Bailiff, go outside and see what flag is flying over the capitol building this week, then find me a copy of the Constitution Wikipedia says that flag represents. Obviously I took a wrong turn this morning in Albuquerque on my way to Pismo beach. Gotta stop eating that extra hot galactic planet burner burrito before going to bed......
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: save on January 21, 2017, 07:57:32 PM
Let the lower side have 262s and 163s for free from all fields and see how fun it would be.
I guess it would be not that fun at all for the high numbers side, soon requesting both sides flew non-perked birds, or the high numbered side should enjoy the same perk-free rides.
Everyone looks good outnumbering the enemy 2:1 in equal planes locally.
An example- took off from a base in an A8 alone, at 4k I was jumped by 3 high P47M coming screaming down to get me.
I managed to avoid getting killed, but they got one elevator and 2 guns shot out. Managed to land at the base gear up, and was called 'weak' for not wanting to continue the fight, outnumbered, against much better planes - 3:1 - them with all the E you ask for - and me shot up.
It's the human nature to want all advantages can have.
One answer could be local ENY along the front-line.
Not really liking the idea of allowing the high side to have uber rides, but if it keeps people from logging off, it would be an acceptable compromise.
Next we'll get an avalanche of threads from the same people, demanding everything to be un-perked. :old:
An alternative idea would be to shorten the side switch time, based on the number of players in game. :aok
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zimme83 on January 21, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
Problem is that 99% of the players go after the easiest target they could find,i have no illusions about what would happen if ENY was removed. People are already ganging the low number side and complains when they don't up so they could be killed by the glorious vulchers.. ENY at least gives the outnumbered guys the chance to up a perk ride from a rear field and pick off the horde...
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 21, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
Problem is that 99% of the players go after the easiest target they could find,i have no illusions about what would happen if ENY was removed. People are already ganging the low number side and complains when they don't up so they could be killed by the glorious vulchers.. ENY at least gives the outnumbered guys the chance to up a perk ride from a rear field and pick off the horde...
DAY 14 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME! HEAR ME ROAR!!! RAWRRR!
Yadda yadda yadda, I cant leave the Knights, yadda yadda yadda ENY, yadda yadda yadda ENY is mean, yadda yadda yadda I cant live without my 5ENY ride, yadda yadda yadda HiTech is a meanie that wont let me have my way, yadda yadda yadda.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 21, 2017, 11:23:45 PM
someones not counting the people who don't post on the bbs
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: waystin2 on January 22, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
You'll see the Pigs being regular Rook visitors as long as the night time ENY remains high.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: guncrasher on January 22, 2017, 01:53:02 PM
the majority of people dont post on the bb and that goes for both sides. besides why you guys still arguing. hitech already gave his opinion. and his is the only one that counts.
I dont like eny because I cant fly my pony. so I use the ponyb then a p47. or logoff and come back the next day. what some of you guys fail to notice is that eny moves up and down rather fast sometimes. I have taken off in a pony to come back and land to have eny. take off in a ponyb to come back that the p51 is now available. to come back and land and have eny again.
hitech is not going to give up on his idea for eny and switch time. he's got the numbers to justify it and it's useless if he gives you his data because some of you will just come back and ask for eny or switch time to be changed based on your interpretation of data. after all we all want to be right or at least have the appearance that we are. look at viracu he can switch his idea of what he wants 2 or 3 times in the same thread.
semp
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 22, 2017, 02:00:55 PM
someones not counting the people who don't post on the bbs
Someone missed that being the context of the exchange but even on text chat it's pretty much the same few eeyores. ;)
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 22, 2017, 03:10:24 PM
Way, I'm guessing here only..... ;)
I think that is what Hitech wants POTW to do. It's not like POTW is bosom buddies with green guys when it comes down to it. Knights or rooks so far, they have been just as predictable about letting other green guys die when they could help. How else did we piggies end up saying: "only trust pigs when you need help".
Red guys stay red guys no matter what side we move to. There is a bit of breaking the ice time lag of a few days before the green guys stop acting like we are two weekers or something and talk to us over in the rook country. If we really wanted to mess with the community's heads, we could go bish for a night.....heheheeheheheheeeee..... :O<---- as this emoticon shows, then we would have smack ourselves with dead fish for a week just to get the smell off. :)
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: puller on January 22, 2017, 03:19:24 PM
I get ganged in low eny planes just the same as in high eny planes...
ENY is here to stay...
At this point what difference does it make...
Gangtards gonna gang... Targets of opportunity and such... :noid
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: The Fugitive on January 22, 2017, 04:00:39 PM
You'll see the Pigs being regular Rook visitors as long as the night time ENY remains high.
Thats GREAT!!! I would love to fly with the Pigs!
Haven't yet because I hate switching sides :noid
Just Kidding!!! Welcome POW !
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Chris79 on January 22, 2017, 04:14:49 PM
Why not assign a perk cost to fly certain AC when eny is to high. Formula, County ENY divided by Plane ENY multiplied by 6. I.E if the "Pawns" have a country ENY of 20 and a certain "Pawn" wants to fly a LA7, 51D, or Spit16 then it would cost 30 perks.[20/5]*6=30. A 109K4 would be [20/15]*6=8. This is just off of the top of my head but it would seem in my opinion to be a fair compromise.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Arlo on January 22, 2017, 04:22:24 PM
Why not assign a perk cost to fly certain AC when eny is to high. Formula, County ENY divided by Plane ENY multiplied by 6. I.E if the "Pawns" have a country ENY of 20 and a certain "Pawn" wants to fly a LA7, 51D, or Spit16 then it would cost 30 perks.[20/5]*6=30. A 109K4 would be [20/15]*6=8. This is just off of the top of my head but it would seem in my opinion to be a fair compromise.
How about multiplied by 50?
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: TheRapier on January 22, 2017, 08:50:33 PM
DAY 14 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME!
I know you don't talk to the people who play except in particular settings. So you can see what isn't popping up for you, here is what people are thinking. You have to ask if you want them thinking it about your game.
"this ENY crap, this is unacceptable" "I thought I paid every month to fly what I wanted, am I wrong?" "So its on ME to accommodate the bish and rook incompetence????" "People have complained for years, does no good" "Not in unison they haven't" "If we ALL stood up against ENY it would go away, but too many sheeple" "The only way to stand up against ENY is to leave the game. . . " "HT pretty much said...he ain't changing ENY" ". . . whats the sense, we can't even fly what we want" "This is ENY what makes it an arcade game" "I agree less people in AH because you are punished for wining or getting people to fly on your side" "Its no difference, its my money MY choice"
I'm not saying you should change it because of what is being said. Really its your choice. I'm saying you should consider changing it because most people don't say, they just leave. People are doing you an EXTRA service if they tell you something you need to hear.
As always you have your choice.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Oldman731 on January 22, 2017, 09:13:05 PM
I know you don't talk to the people who play except in particular settings. So you can see what isn't popping up for you, here is what people are thinking. You have to ask if you want them thinking it about your game.
"this ENY crap, this is unacceptable" "I thought I paid every month to fly what I wanted, am I wrong?" "So its on ME to accommodate the bish and rook incompetence????" "People have complained for years, does no good" "Not in unison they haven't" "If we ALL stood up against ENY it would go away, but too many sheeple" "The only way to stand up against ENY is to leave the game. . . " "HT pretty much said...he ain't changing ENY" ". . . whats the sense, we can't even fly what we want" "This is ENY what makes it an arcade game" "I agree less people in AH because you are punished for wining or getting people to fly on your side" "Its no difference, its my money MY choice"
I'm not saying you should change it because of what is being said. Really its your choice. I'm saying you should consider changing it because most people don't say, they just leave. People are doing you an EXTRA service if they tell you something you need to hear.
As always you have your choice.
While most of this stuff is crap, fantasy, BS and anything else you want to call it, it IS what people believe in the game. Much like "hacking" accusations this type of rhetoric can and WILL run rampant.
HTC may not want to do anything about ENY, but they should make it know WHAT they are doing. If they don't become a presence here and in the game, more and more people will believe this crap.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: whiteman on January 22, 2017, 09:58:37 PM
Love envy, thanks HiTech!
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 22, 2017, 10:11:17 PM
While most of this stuff is crap, fantasy, BS and anything else you want to call it, it IS what people believe in the game. Much like "hacking" accusations this type of rhetoric can and WILL run rampant.
HTC may not want to do anything about ENY, but they should make it know WHAT they are doing. If they don't become a presence here and in the game, more and more people will believe this crap.
Being on Knights during the almost daily ENY spike you can absolutely see many different players getting frustrated about ENY...I base most of my "This is what I think the community wants" (It's not for certain but it's better then most especially those who don't fly in a squad) off of the opinions I see here, in the MA and off my squad(which makes up a decent percentage of people online on certain nights)...Tons of people got a problem with ENY currently...
Rapier is probably pulling actual quotes from different people on the Knights if he's still flying there.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: bustr on January 23, 2017, 02:44:21 AM
Since most of those complaining today were not there for the organized squad effort that ended up forcing Hitech to create ENY in the first place. They have no context nor any inclination to see a bigger picture. They also have no experience with events that massive in the MA which would cause them to call up Hitech and cancel their subscription if he didn't take instant draconian measures. ENY today as it impacts players is a minor irritation compared to suddenly being swamped with uber rides at any field you tried to up from as you watched your feilds quickly being shut down then captured all across the terrain. And this went on every sunday like clock work with more players from knights and bish every sunday logging in as rook to be on the side handing out the whippings. Skyyr would have loved being part of that mass whipping event with a double extra wide razer strap with it's own Revi16 HOing guide.
The only thing anyone cares about 14 years later is the "now". They pay their subscription so they want their ride any time they want their ride. It's Hitech's problem to control bad actors and not theirs to suffer today because of some bullcrap from 14 years ago. 14 years ago that attitude is exactly how we got this bullcrap ENY.
Today it would be fun as heck for the younger players to swamp the nits and rooks in uber rides for a weekend making the old farts whine on 200 and rage quit. And finding out they canceled their subscriptions with long nasty forum rants as their farewell would be the high point in those bish AH playing career. And once again it would be waaa Hitech didn't do something, Hitech is a stoopid head. ENY is precisely why it has never happened. Think about skyyr and the following of younger players on the bish who still to this day hoard and HO after following him around and enjoying all the rage antics on 200 about him. Then think about skyyr and them with no ENY. Once the beatings started 14 years ago, it was amazing how many country loyal players jumped ship to the rooks to help hand out beatings.
The only other answer to policing that kind of bad actor and groups of actors is to replace ENY with MODS and eject power with an attitude and no compassion for any infringement of the rules. Hitech would have to finally lay down rules on us after all these years of no rules.
Many of the players complaining in nit land, and from Rapier's list of their utterances. I have an idea who they are, and have been around them for 14 years now. They just don't like change anymore. All they want is to login, BS with the same 12 or so guys they have BS'd with for the last 10 years and vulch people for the evening. ENY makes playing the game too much like work for them to achieve the same safe results in lesser ability rides. They can fly the garbage rides, it's just too much effort if it's not FSO or a special event once in awhile.
As far as they are concerned, it's Hitech's job to deal with the reasons that created ENY and keep that bullcrap from bothering them without impacting their fun for their $14.95.
Hey Hitech I hate everybody, can I be one of the new MODs? :O
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: lunatic1 on January 23, 2017, 02:46:40 AM
Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
« Reply #119 on: Yesterday at 09:18:38 PM »
Quote
Quote from: TheRapier on Yesterday at 08:50:33 PM
DAY 14 IN A ROW, KNIGHTS HAVE ENY IN PRIME TIME!
I know you don't talk to the people who play except in particular settings. So you can see what isn't popping up for you, here is what people are thinking. You have to ask if you want them thinking it about your game.
"this ENY crap, this is unacceptable" "I thought I paid every month to fly what I wanted, am I wrong?" "So its on ME to accommodate the bish and rook incompetence????" "People have complained for years, does no good" "Not in unison they haven't" "If we ALL stood up against ENY it would go away, but too many sheeple" "The only way to stand up against ENY is to leave the game. . . " "HT pretty much said...he ain't changing ENY" ". . . whats the sense, we can't even fly what we want" "This is ENY what makes it an arcade game" "I agree less people in AH because you are punished for wining or getting people to fly on your side" "Its no difference, its my money MY choice"
I'm not saying you should change it because of what is being said. Really its your choice. I'm saying you should consider changing it because most people don't say, they just leave. People are doing you an EXTRA service if they tell you something you need to hear.
As always you have your choice.
While most of this stuff is crap, fantasy, BS and anything else you want to call it, it IS what people believe in the game. Much like "hacking" accusations this type of rhetoric can and WILL run rampant.
HTC may not want to do anything about ENY, but they should make it know WHAT they are doing. If they don't become a presence here and in the game, more and more people will believe this crap.
not fantasy Fugitive-I was part of this conversation-and from now on I will keep my opinion to myself--but trying to keep a fairly new player from quiting the game, because eny kept him from flying the only plane he wants to fly and is not open to flying something different-or changing sides.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: lunatic1 on January 23, 2017, 03:03:33 AM
i think HiTech would rather be home with family in primetime, if it were possible for someone from HTC to play the game a couple hours a night at cdt prime time, 3 or 4 nights for 1 week to see the problems players here are talking about...and i know being on or around computers all day is the last thing you want to do is be on one at home. was just wondering.
besides ENY doesen't really bother me any way-i fly most different planes anyway with or without eny.being i Knight i would switch to rooks but Knights would probably hate me if i managed to shoot 1 or 2 down-because it's hard to just fight 1 side.
but i know this won't happen--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^ just wondering :airplane:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 23, 2017, 03:58:47 AM
Cant wait until Caldera get his ENY 60 Zeppelin into melee arean :P
Can't wait for that. Hydrogen combat airships are the wave of the future! :aok
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vinkman on January 23, 2017, 08:21:55 AM
The ENY process is a complaint generator with a murky purpose. Handicapping one side because they have more people is to: A) hinder them from winning the war? B) hinder them from winning fights?
Just don't understand why either of those need to be hindered.
fighting is fighting. who wins the war is the last thing on 99% of the players mind, 99% of the time. Why does it get such consideration?
I don't think I have a legitimate complaint if I'm outnumbered 4-1 in a fight. That's life. I HAVE a legitimate complaint if I'm outnumbered 4-1 and I'm forced to fly a P-40.
More people on one side doesn't equal being out numbered in every fight...or any fight for that matter. How does ENY know it's helping? What metric or algorithm does it use to know it's improving game play? Just curious :salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: BowHTR on January 23, 2017, 08:39:42 AM
So, ENY appears to be doing its job. What it was intended to do. I think the problem is that the players are not conforming to the features of the game. All other games, people form to the features to make the features work for them. Here, people complain until they get their way.
ENY is not a problem. As we are told, the Knights have had ENY during primetime for the last 139 days :rolleyes: . Then the people that have a problem with ENY, or people that have to fly their low ENY planes should be swapping to the other country to help balance the sides, which reduces ENY. Instead everyone just wants to whine. Adapt and overcome.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Zardoz on January 23, 2017, 10:41:48 AM
So, ENY appears to be doing its job. What it was intended to do. I think the problem is that the players are not conforming to the features of the game. All other games, people form to the features to make the features work for them. Here, people complain until they get their way.
ENY is not a problem. As we are told, the Knights have had ENY during primetime for the last 139 days :rolleyes: . Then the people that have a problem with ENY, or people that have to fly their low ENY planes should be swapping to the other country to help balance the sides, which reduces ENY. Instead everyone just wants to whine. Adapt and overcome.
+1 :salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Wiley on January 23, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
So, ENY appears to be doing its job. What it was intended to do. I think the problem is that the players are not conforming to the features of the game. All other games, people form to the features to make the features work for them. Here, people complain until they get their way.
ENY is not a problem. As we are told, the Knights have had ENY during primetime for the last 139 days :rolleyes: . Then the people that have a problem with ENY, or people that have to fly their low ENY planes should be swapping to the other country to help balance the sides, which reduces ENY. Instead everyone just wants to whine. Adapt and overcome.
The problem is, and has always been, chesspiece underoos. A large portion of the reason people play the game is the people they play with. They don't want to fight against these people they've developed long lasting and familiar relationships with. That attitude has become so entrenched, it negates the idea of switching sides. Even if individuals may want to switch, the vast majority of squads are side loyal. It's their side, or log off in most peoples' minds. Regardless of intent on HT's part, that's the net result.
I would be very curious to see if the lack of rooks is simply a matter of people leaving, or if people jumped sides for some reason.
Wiley.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 11:29:05 AM
So, ENY appears to be doing its job. What it was intended to do. I think the problem is that the players are not conforming to the features of the game. All other games, people form to the features to make the features work for them. Here, people complain until they get their way.
ENY is not a problem. As we are told, the Knights have had ENY during primetime for the last 139 days :rolleyes: . Then the people that have a problem with ENY, or people that have to fly their low ENY planes should be swapping to the other country to help balance the sides, which reduces ENY. Instead everyone just wants to whine. Adapt and overcome.
ACM is the same for low or high ENY so plane performance isn't the reason people dont want to fly different planes...they are attached to those planes for personal reasons
Switching sides....why would I switch sides when I have to wait 6 hours to go back and have the possibility of ENY flexing to that side in that time???
I'll ask you and all people who agree ENY is working right.....would a 1 hour side switch time make ENY worse or some how change your opinion in this discussion?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bozon on January 23, 2017, 11:59:47 AM
More people on one side doesn't equal being out numbered in every fight...or any fight for that matter. How does ENY know it's helping? What metric or algorithm does it use to know it's improving game play? Just curious :salute
ENY limiter was added after years of complaining about unbalnced numbers. I dont remember the last time I read a whine thread about numbers. ENY does not really limit the quality of available planes. There are superb high ENY planes and ENY rarely stops the high numbers side from taking fields. In the large picture and over time, it does seem to help with the numbers balance and today it is very rare the one side outnumber the other two combined - except when numbers are very low that is.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: whiteman on January 23, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
Adapt and overcome eny sounds like your only option.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vinkman on January 23, 2017, 12:41:32 PM
ENY limiter was added after years of complaining about unbalnced numbers. I dont remember the last time I read a whine thread about numbers. ENY does not really limit the quality of available planes. There are superb high ENY planes and ENY rarely stops the high numbers side from taking fields. In the large picture and over time, it does seem to help with the numbers balance and today it is very rare the one side outnumber the other two combined - except when numbers are very low that is.
I'm sure people complained about being outnumbered. But now that they see what the alternative is, maybe they'd all vote to drop ENY. The solution seems worse than the original problem.
Any data to support your side balance observation before and after ENY? I remember the HTC stated that it was NOT to promote side switching, or logging off. Which are the only way to balance sides. :salute
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: hitech on January 23, 2017, 01:22:09 PM
Any data to support your side balance observation before and after ENY? I remember the HTC stated that it was NOT to promote side switching, or logging off. Which are the only way to balance sides. :salute
I havn't gone back an look but I'm fairly sure I said it was NOT to make people log off.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: BowHTR on January 23, 2017, 01:56:32 PM
ACM is the same for low or high ENY so plane performance isn't the reason people dont want to fly different planes...they are attached to those planes for personal reasons
Switching sides....why would I switch sides when I have to wait 6 hours to go back and have the possibility of ENY flexing to that side in that time???
I'll ask you and all people who agree ENY is working right.....would a 1 hour side switch time make ENY worse or some how change your opinion in this discussion?
If we know the ENY is on the knight side, everyday, at the same time, for 4 hours or more, I would say it's a safe bet that you can swap sides and be safe from ENY for a couple hours. Based on what Rapier has stated in his last few posts, if accurate, we could assume that you could safely swap to another country and be just fine for a couple hours. After all, ENY has been dooming that one side everyday, at the same time, for 4 hours or more.
So lets put the side switch to 1 hour. Guess what, your still going to have the same people complaining about the same things, with the exception of those complaining about not having a 1 hour side switch time. A 1 hour side switch time does not fix any of the following complaining.
"this ENY crap, this is unacceptable" "I thought I paid every month to fly what I wanted, am I wrong?" "So its on ME to accommodate the bish and rook incompetence????" "People have complained for years, does no good" "Not in unison they haven't" "If we ALL stood up against ENY it would go away, but too many sheeple" "The only way to stand up against ENY is to leave the game. . . " "HT pretty much said...he ain't changing ENY" ". . . whats the sense, we can't even fly what we want" "This is ENY what makes it an arcade game" "I agree less people in AH because you are punished for wining or getting people to fly on your side" "Its no difference, its my money MY choice"
These people that are loyal to their sides can be loyal. That's perfectly fine. But don't blame the game/feature, that's doing what it was intended for. ENY simply encourages people to swap sides or fly an earlier version aircraft. If you don't want to do either of those, then I guess that's your problem, not HT's.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vinkman on January 23, 2017, 02:07:55 PM
I havn't gone back an look but I'm fairly sure I said it was NOT to make people log off.
HiTech
I guess that was obvious. But we do get a fair bit of that because it seems many people are loyal to their chess piece. But do I recall correctly that you also did not intend to have ENY cause people to switch sides? or is that classified? :salute
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 02:09:42 PM
If we know the ENY is on the knight side, everyday, at the same time, for 4 hours or more, I would say it's a safe bet that you can swap sides and be safe from ENY for a couple hours. Based on what Rapier has stated in his last few posts, if accurate, we could assume that you could safely swap to another country and be just fine for a couple hours. After all, ENY has been dooming that one side everyday, at the same time, for 4 hours or more.
So lets put the side switch to 1 hour. Guess what, your still going to have the same people complaining about the same things, with the exception of those complaining about not having a 1 hour side switch time. A 1 hour side switch time does not fix any of the following complaining.
These people that are loyal to their sides can be loyal. That's perfectly fine. But don't blame the game/feature, that's doing what it was intended for. ENY simply encourages people to swap sides or fly an earlier version aircraft. If you don't want to do either of those, then I guess that's your problem, not HT's.
And this mindset is a huge problem in the community, you think just because it's fine for you and a good amount of other players that it doesn't need to be changed but A LOT of players may leave the game due to this then what are you going to do? Shoot at town buildings and auto ack?...how long will that hold everyone's interest??? We already have incredibly low numbers, some minor changes can be made to make the game at least a bit better to hold more of the community...
You are partially right...1 hour rule doesn't completely fix the entire issue but it does take some of stress off the problem...which in turn will make it so you see fewer ENY posts...to say that all the people except those who want a 1 hour rule would be complaining is just BS...
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: SPKmes on January 23, 2017, 02:12:03 PM
For me Eny is not a factor...1 because I change sides to low number..and 2 because my ride of choice has a high Eny ...lucky me huh.... A swarm is a swarm whether it is low eny planes or high eny planes....high eny is actually more of an issue in this scenario as they will usually get slow and turn where as low eny big boys are rather precious and just zoom through trying to tag the low slow guy so you get a bit of breathing room.... I think the modifier could be tweaked a little to slow down the eny constraints... A lower side switch time would be great for me... as it is now can be a bit restrictive, especially if you change sides only to find no fights (my type ..defending) many has been the time that I log on check the map and try work out whether the low number side is when it is at to find nothing happening so decide to go to the side that has the most flashing bases and it is 5 friendlies and 1 set of bombers or a jarbo or a fighter jock looking for a bit of a fun fight...now I am stuck on a side of swarming green guys...yuck.... Quite often I have found a lower number side rolling bases as they just roll numbers from base to base to base...with no care for any defense of their other fields...now these guys have the good planes with all the bombs and a higher number side with restrictions is swamped fighting two fronts which often evens the sides and the modifier can't gauge that
To answer your question Junky...I think a lower switch time would be great for people like me...however I am not chess piece loyal ( I am but only to the chess piece I am on at the time I will defend with the same vigor on all sides) but I am a minority in this game at this time... piece loyal and win war types far outnumber furballer types
So yes I would like it but no I don't think it would have a resounding effect on Eny...
Personally...change modifier for Eny it affects me not ....lucky me
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: hitech on January 23, 2017, 02:16:48 PM
I guess that was obvious. But we do get a fair bit of that because it seems many people are loyal to their chess piece. But do I recall correctly that you also did not intend to have ENY cause people to switch sides? or is that classified? :salute
Eny was designed to balance game play do to an imbalance a different number of players on each side.
It does this 1. By creating an incentive for players to change sides 2. By giving an advantage to the country with less players.
Has I consequence some players may also log off which also helps the issue of side balance, as compared to pre ENY when players would log off do to side imbalance it made the problem worse.
HiTech
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 02:17:42 PM
How about shallowing the ENY out a bit by first starting with NO ORD for ENY 5...then NO ENY 5 planes...then NO ord under 10 ENY the no 10 ENY planes ECT ECT ECT
That's what gives most aircraft that low ENY in the first place(the ord, example F4U1D and F6F) and that is what gives a horde an ability to steam roll when they do have numbers...you put them in heavy Jugs or Mossys they will get shredded by light fighters.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 02:19:06 PM
Eny was designed to balance game play do to an imbalance a different number of players on each side.
It does this 1. By creating an incentive for players to change sides 2. By giving an advantage to the country with less players.
Has I consequence some players may also log off which also helps the issue of side balance, as compared to pre ENY when players would log off do to side imbalance it made the problem worse.
HiTech
Since it is an incentive for players to change sides...why punish them by making them stay there 6 hours?
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 23, 2017, 02:19:41 PM
How about shallowing the ENY out a bit by first starting with NO ORD for ENY 5...then NO ENY 5 planes...then NO ord under 10 ENY the no 10 ENY planes ECT ECT ECT
NO.
HiTech
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: hitech on January 23, 2017, 02:21:08 PM
I guess that was obvious. But we do get a fair bit of that because it seems many people are loyal to their chess piece. But do I recall correctly that you also did not intend to have ENY cause people to switch sides? or is that classified? :salute
You can't change personality traits. If the person limits themselves enough then they will never be happy.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 02:44:55 PM
Eny was designed to balance game play do to an imbalance a different number of players on each side.
It does this 1. By creating an incentive for players to change sides 2. By giving an advantage to the country with less players.
Has I consequence some players may also log off which also helps the issue of side balance, as compared to pre ENY when players would log off do to side imbalance it made the problem worse.
HiTech
Thank you. :salute
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vinkman on January 23, 2017, 03:09:52 PM
You can't change personality traits. If the person limits themselves enough then they will never be happy.
True. I'm always happy...except when I'm losing, or my bullets aren't hitting anything, or I get picked or...
Wait..I'm never happy. ;)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 23, 2017, 03:58:26 PM
Most of the time lately when I check the MA, the rooks are missing representation for some reason. This really messes with ENY for the knights since POTW is a knight squad but, having good numbers still after all these years, we suck it up and act like it's FSO. I just checked the MA to look at ENY fighter rides and noticed once again rooks seem really under represented for some reason middle of the day.
So when ENY limits your rides all the way including the Yak3 for base defense, it can get irritating having to fly something requiring your A++ game to not get picked or power ganged by P51D's and Doras. By that time there are really no rides that you can run away to get a breather and a reset. Most people don't like being forced to be in A++ mode all the time just to play a game. Especially those 4 hours lately during prime time the rooks seem to all be in a bar somewhere watching the latest pro ball game. Or maybe they decided it's better to be with the big population numbers hiding in garbage rides with the rest of us. :rolleyes: Yeppers in this game numbers rule, well once they did when it was 200 P51D's closing down both the nits and bish in the same hour.
Right now ENY is 23 for the knights which means even the Yak9u is unavailable for them as a solid 500mph ride to get separation from bad situations. The bish are close behind. There are only 19 rook in the arena while bish and knights have 2x each or a tad more. Without ENY, those 19 rook would just log and probably tell Hitech to stick it and cancel their accounts. 14 years ago with no ENY people just quit the game because who can fight an overwhelming number of P51D's under those conditions? 1 hour side switching would only oscillate the badness around over 4 hours as people tried to hide on the large number side and people tried to escape the large numbers of P51D's and dora's whipping up on them. Not to mention all the 262's.
If you look at the list of fighters and bombers affected by 23 ENY, it's obvious why 23 ENY based on population numbers takes those rides off the table. In a 2.5 to 1 scenario where the other two sides are roughly 2.5 players to your 1, all the rides from ENY 5-23 would make the MA for your side at 1, a replay of 14 years ago for all the paying customers on your side.
But, Vinkman expressed it best the confusion most players today have about the purpose of ENY.
Quote
More people on one side doesn't equal being out numbered in every fight...or any fight for that matter. How does ENY know it's helping? What metric or algorithm does it use to know it's improving game play?
Each player questioning ENY in here assumes everyone else will act like themselves and not act human, until they act human, and screw the low numbers on one of the three sides. Human nature in combat games is it's fun to be the one welding the club making you cry instead of you making them cry.
ENY is better than MOD's with eject powers and no way to challenge them because one of the new rules will be you get ejected for calling out the MOD's. Now I still wonder where the rooks keep going every day because that ENY monster must be getting tired of all this extra work recently.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: icepac on January 23, 2017, 05:30:15 PM
For me, "base defense" starts with a warning on country channel when I see the big dar bar show up two sectors away and I believe that I know which of our fields is the target.
Then I up a fighter and am usually at 25k when they show up and get a bird's eye view of them clubbing my countrymates who decided base defense starts after the enemy has established a vulch cap.
In this case, an I16 with the cannons works wonders and works even better if you catch them before they arrive over your field.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2017, 09:27:29 PM
Most of the time lately when I check the MA, the rooks are missing representation for some reason. This really messes with ENY for the knights since POTW is a knight squad but, having good numbers still after all these years, we suck it up and act like it's FSO. I just checked the MA to look at ENY fighter rides and noticed once again rooks seem really under represented for some reason middle of the day.
So when ENY limits your rides all the way including the Yak3 for base defense, it can get irritating having to fly something requiring your A++ game to not get picked or power ganged by P51D's and Doras. By that time there are really no rides that you can run away to get a breather and a reset. Most people don't like being forced to be in A++ mode all the time just to play a game. Especially those 4 hours lately during prime time the rooks seem to all be in a bar somewhere watching the latest pro ball game. Or maybe they decided it's better to be with the big population numbers hiding in garbage rides with the rest of us. :rolleyes: Yeppers in this game numbers rule, well once they did when it was 200 P51D's closing down both the nits and bish in the same hour.
Right now ENY is 23 for the knights which means even the Yak9u is unavailable for them as a solid 500mph ride to get separation from bad situations. The bish are close behind. There are only 19 rook in the arena while bish and knights have 2x each or a tad more. Without ENY, those 19 rook would just log and probably tell Hitech to stick it and cancel their accounts. 14 years ago with no ENY people just quit the game because who can fight an overwhelming number of P51D's under those conditions? 1 hour side switching would only oscillate the badness around over 4 hours as people tried to hide on the large number side and people tried to escape the large numbers of P51D's and dora's whipping up on them. Not to mention all the 262's.
If you look at the list of fighters and bombers affected by 23 ENY, it's obvious why 23 ENY based on population numbers takes those rides off the table. In a 2.5 to 1 scenario where the other two sides are roughly 2.5 players to your 1, all the rides from ENY 5-23 would make the MA for your side at 1, a replay of 14 years ago for all the paying customers on your side.
But, Vinkman expressed it best the confusion most players today have about the purpose of ENY. Each player questioning ENY in here assumes everyone else will act like themselves and not act human, until they act human, and screw the low numbers on one of the three sides. Human nature in combat games is it's fun to be the one welding the club making you cry instead of you making them cry.
ENY is better than MOD's with eject powers and no way to challenge them because one of the new rules will be you get ejected for calling out the MOD's. Now I still wonder where the rooks keep going every day because that ENY monster must be getting tired of all this extra work recently.
Just curious...what other combat games do you play????
Nevermind....you' re just wrong about human nature in combat games that everyone wants the easy fight...other games have ranks attach to you that actually give a better representation of your actual skill level and you aren't going to climb those ladders without taking tougher fights.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 24, 2017, 12:16:56 AM
You are trying to do two things at the same time which creates a lot of stress for you over this game. You are trying to change this game either back into AH2 circa 2007 or into Junky's Combat Sky's 2017 by constantly challenging Hitech and anyone else you perceive in your way. You do not like the game as it is now and would still be trying to change it even if we had 400 players as a norm. Changing it for the altruist good of the community is a cover for you wanting the game to be how you remembered it. It doesn't matter what games I play, this is AH3 and not them.
Hitech imposes no rules in this open world so it panders to the lowest common level of human nature. Because there is no structured framework with competitors constantly trying to be No.1 at combat. Or defining themselves by their superiority over the community other than kill strings and the naughtiness that gets laughed about on 200. That was the muppets circa 2007 who cared about those competitive combat things. Score and rank have stopped meaning anything especially to the core group of players who have been around longer than you. They kind of define the current game which as combat games goes is a rather laid back affair. At least Waffle hasn't greifed us yet by temporarily putting a bocce ball court in front of the tower with a 55gal drum of Geritol next to it.
ENY and how it came about was directly due to human nature and that human nature is always on display in the MA looking for a way to whizz down the other guy's back and crow about it. That is the current spirit of the game. I've had 14 years to watch it ebb and flow as someone comes up with some new and naughty way to greif the community for a time and either moves on or gets banned by Hitech. Good luck trying to force the MA into being one of those other combat games, that's why we have Koth, AvA, DA, FSO and special events. It sounds like you want to bring all that structured special play to the MA and convert the community to your combat religion. The muppets tried for a while to change the MA into a super sized DA, some moved on, and the rest finally picked a fight with Hitech they couldn't win in his house.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 24, 2017, 12:21:14 PM
You are trying to do two things at the same time which creates a lot of stress for you over this game. You are trying to change this game either back into AH2 circa 2007 or into Junky's Combat Sky's 2017 by constantly challenging Hitech and anyone else you perceive in your way. You do not like the game as it is now and would still be trying to change it even if we had 400 players as a norm. Changing it for the altruist good of the community is a cover for you wanting the game to be how you remembered it. It doesn't matter what games I play, this is AH3 and not them.
Hitech imposes no rules in this open world so it panders to the lowest common level of human nature. Because there is no structured framework with competitors constantly trying to be No.1 at combat. Or defining themselves by their superiority over the community other than kill strings and the naughtiness that gets laughed about on 200. That was the muppets circa 2007 who cared about those competitive combat things. Score and rank have stopped meaning anything especially to the core group of players who have been around longer than you. They kind of define the current game which as combat games goes is a rather laid back affair. At least Waffle hasn't greifed us yet by temporarily putting a bocce ball court in front of the tower with a 55gal drum of Geritol next to it.
ENY and how it came about was directly due to human nature and that human nature is always on display in the MA looking for a way to whizz down the other guy's back and crow about it. That is the current spirit of the game. I've had 14 years to watch it ebb and flow as someone comes up with some new and naughty way to greif the community for a time and either moves on or gets banned by Hitech. Good luck trying to force the MA into being one of those other combat games, that's why we have Koth, AvA, DA, FSO and special events. It sounds like you want to bring all that structured special play to the MA and convert the community to your combat religion. The muppets tried for a while to change the MA into a super sized DA, some moved on, and the rest finally picked a fight with Hitech they couldn't win in his house.
You said human nature in combat games yet you haven't played any other combat games so you made a statement without any experience....then try to flip it on me with some absolute horse crap....
First, I'd like you to go back to all your posts prior to AH3 launch where you were telling me the game was going to be different and those issues wouldn't follow over and I said they would...then come back and say "Junky...you were right"....you won't because you are a stubborn but anyone who can read knows I'm right there.
Second, If I didn't care or like the game....why would I volunteer to help make it better???? So that comment of yours is just absolutely insane and reaching to try and get a right answer.....just stop there
Third, Oh players who have been here longer then me have adapted??? Really??? Where's the Blue Knights, JG26 Widowmakers, Chicken Hawks, AoM, Rolling Thunder, V tards, and the other larger squads from back in the day who made up a large portion of the community....yea they really adapted Bustr....maybe it was the game that was adapting in the wrong way....ever think that??? Like maybe town resupply should have never been added...maybe side switch time shouldn't have been changed so dramatically...ect ect ect
Next, You were partially right when you called me an anomaly....I play the game thinking about the other persons experience more then I think of my own...until they mess up my experience. I don't HO...I seldom vulch anymore unless I'm in an F8, I fly at lower altitude because I understand me with alt hurts an average players experience, I crutch myself by turn fighting in a 152, I pull off of cons who are getting ganged and don't jump in on a gang(sometime it happens), I respect 1v1s, I stick to fighters but can and do all other parts of the game better then most, and I communicate with friendly planes within range like I'm talking to a squaddie.
Finally, I'll debate with devs if I think anything is wrong....general combat...when it happens, isn't wrong currently...that's always been right, players could go the extra step and not HO and such to make it better but devs can't change that...they can manipulate the settings to trend the players certain ways though...like cutting the town supply in half or making the switch time lower to the low country side....If Hitech thinks I'm attacking him just to attack him....feel free to boot me, generally I wouldn't care....It would just confirm what many others already say.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Ramesis on January 24, 2017, 02:17:59 PM
I've said it before... I'll say it again Given the constant bishop outnumbering of the Rooks or the constant Knight outnumbering of Rooks... I submit that ENY has been a complete failure for what it was intended to do... BUT, until HTC comes this conclusion, we need to deal with it :cheers:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 24, 2017, 02:26:09 PM
I've said it before... I'll say it again Given the constant bishop outnumbering of the Rooks or the constant Knight outnumbering of Rooks... I submit that ENY has been a complete failure for what it was intended to do... BUT, until HTC comes this conclusion, we need to deal with it :cheers:
Maybe HT has come to the conclusion that players DO need to deal with it. The only thing keeping players from riding their favorite rides are the players. ENY is one of the most 'player's choice' game balancing designs I've ever seen. It doesn't actually FORCE you to do a thing. And the most stubborn players accuse HT of being so.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 24, 2017, 03:42:46 PM
I've said it before... I'll say it again Given the constant bishop outnumbering of the Rooks or the constant Knight outnumbering of Rooks... I submit that ENY has been a complete failure for what it was intended to do... BUT, until HTC comes this conclusion, we need to deal with it :cheers:
When did it become Hitech's fault the rooks are being outnumbered?
I still think this might be an organized walk out to force Hitech to get rid of ENY. After all, it was the rooks who forced Hitech to impose ENY in the first place. And some of those gents are still around. So why are the rooks walking out every night lately?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 24, 2017, 04:07:54 PM
When did it become Hitech's fault the rooks are being outnumbered?
LOL!!! agreed! Rumor has it that HTC wanted to test the ENY setting so they have automatically moved 50% of the rook to either Knight of Bishop and created a "disco" if said players try to switch back.
:noid
Quote
I still think this might be an organized walk out to force Hitech to get rid of ENY. After all, it was the rooks who forced Hitech to impose ENY in the first place. And some of those gents are still around. So why are the rooks walking out every night lately?
My squad, the 47 Ronin, was 30+ with a number of friends from a couple other squads that use to tag along. Any night you could have half a dozen on, weekends easily in the 20s. When we switched from AH2 to AH3 we lost about 80% of them. Some to computer issues, many more due to game issues (playablity). Many decided it just wasn't fun any more chasing running players, dodging HOers, dar being down all the time, or 30+ hordes to take a V base.
ENY works, come fly Rooks and neve have an issue again.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 24, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
So, as OP, here are my takeaways from my questions r.e. ENY:
- It is a source of contention to keep as-is. Keeping it might be causing players to log. - It is a source of contention to remove. Removing it may do more damage and ruin balance. - It is unknown how many players are for it or against it. The thread has many posts, but I'm too lazy/stupid to figure out how many of these are the same folks posting. - Hi-Tec feels that it must stay and that is accomplishing what he designed it to do. - I personally haven't heard a solid replacement for it that would still keep it effective.
So, there is no consensus on what to do about it.
Of course, if I really hated it, I'd quit the game, so I must not feel it ruins the experience as cheaters or buggy code would.
Thanks all for weighing in, and I suppose you can continue to do so, though at this point I seriously doubt you'll be saying anything that hasn't already been said.
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 24, 2017, 09:21:17 PM
Mmmmmkay.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 24, 2017, 09:36:09 PM
FWIW, I will continue to log when ENY does not suit me, but I don't need to fly very often. Just enough for me to HO someone, participate in "3" side of a 3-1, then run like a scalded kitty when the odds even out, all in my bubble canopy royce-merlin powered North American P-15D mustang, the cadillac of the skies.
Happy to return when ENY is back in my favor.
I don't feel the need to blame anyone or get this changed.
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 24, 2017, 09:50:07 PM
Wonderful. :)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 24, 2017, 11:10:43 PM
ENY works, come fly Rooks and neve have an issue again.
I switched Rooks tonight....Got over there to find they are hording a field with half the numbers because the main fight was between bish and Knights....So I switched from Knights where I was shooting bish in a barrel to being Rook shooting bish in a barrel and getting more perks from it in a lower ENY plane...
See the issue? Local ENY might be the answer...X number of this country in this quadrant vs X number of that country in this quadrant = ENY and that quadrants bases...ENY in those local areas are only effected by planes lifted in that quadrant to make up for the randoms like me who will fly 5 sectors to find a real fight.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: whiteman on January 25, 2017, 10:00:58 AM
You had no eny penalty and were getting more points, no I don't see the issue. Your new problem seems to be hordes.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: The Fugitive on January 25, 2017, 10:57:53 AM
I switched Rooks tonight....Got over there to find they are hording a field with half the numbers because the main fight was between bish and Knights....So I switched from Knights where I was shooting bish in a barrel to being Rook shooting bish in a barrel and getting more perks from it in a lower ENY plane...
See the issue? Local ENY might be the answer...X number of this country in this quadrant vs X number of that country in this quadrant = ENY and that quadrants bases...ENY in those local areas are only effected by planes lifted in that quadrant to make up for the randoms like me who will fly 5 sectors to find a real fight.
i always thought localized ENY would be the way to go. it would help break up hordes and still give those guys that must fly a pony away to do it without being a traitor.
im thinking the coding must be a bit of a pain or i think HiTech would have tried it long ago.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 25, 2017, 11:07:11 AM
Traitor? :rofl
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 25, 2017, 11:17:42 AM
i always thought localized ENY would be the way to go. it would help break up hordes and still give those guys that must fly a pony away to do it without being a traitor.
im thinking the coding must be a bit of a pain or i think HiTech would have tried it long ago.
Local ENY would result in something akin to making ENY only affected by planes in flight: a horde would up all at once to circumvent the ENY restriction. Just make a mission or missions with simultaneous departure times.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: The Fugitive on January 25, 2017, 11:37:58 AM
Local ENY would result in something akin to making ENY only affected by planes in flight: a horde would up all at once to circumvent the ENY restriction. Just make a mission or missions with simultaneous departure times.
well as ENY figured by those in the tower as well as those in the air, why couldn't localized ENY be figure that way too?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 25, 2017, 11:40:36 AM
well as ENY figured by those in the tower as well as those in the air, why couldn't localized ENY be figure that way too?
How would that be done? Have a semi-permeable membrane that only lets so many 5 ENY planes cross a sector line?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: popeye on January 25, 2017, 12:03:44 PM
As I fly with Rooks, ENY is not an issue for me, but I have suggested before:
Instead of ENY, make relative numbers affect downtimes.
Bish 70, Knit 50, Rook 30.
Bish kills Knit ack; downtime = 30 min * ( 50/70 ) = 21.4 min. Bish kills Rook ack; downtime = 30 min * ( 30/70 ) = 12.9 min. Rook kills Bish ack; downtime = 30 min (maximum).
This mitigates a numbers imbalance without depriving anyone of their favorite ride. It is transparent to players, no need to check ENY to see what plane to use. It is scales with numbers in real time, rather than having arbitrary unchanging ENY values assigned to each plane, and can have fixed maximum and minimum values (which can be adjusted with experience). Also, it is a "gameplay" fix for a "gameplay" issue; there are no "realistic" values to argue about. It still provides a role for Strat killers to extend the basic downtime.
It can be easily made "local" by affecting the downtime according to numbers in a sector, or within a radar circle, etc. If a horde attacks a lightly defended field, downtimes for that field are minimized regardless of overall arena numbers.
I'm sure this could be "gamed", but it might not upset people the way ENY seems to.
My two cents....
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 25, 2017, 12:40:40 PM
You had no eny penalty and were getting more points, no I don't see the issue. Your new problem seems to be hordes.
No the problem is that one country was getting jumped by 2 even though it wasn't the one with numbers...What should have been happening is the country with the same as both the others combined should have been getting hit by both...But unfortunately on Uterus Map the Eastern front is always the most stale because of the distances between the bases or some other reason.
So ENY wasn't working...because the team getting hit by two sides was fighting against 3 to 1 odds with a third of the fighters attacking them being low ENY planes...while they weren't getting any reward for fighting against those odds other then 2 out of 3 being in 20+ ENY planes.....
I would have changed from rooks to bish immediately if I would have known it was that lopsided of a fight....but people on 200 wouldn't advise of the numbers so I went to the low side thinking they were probably getting hit the hardest which was not true and really is unpredictable....which is why 1 hour rule would help...but stubbornness won't let that come back...which is hilarious
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 25, 2017, 03:07:58 PM
The battlefront bish vs rooks are normally different from knights vs rooks or bish vs knights, at some maps. If they fly 8 sectors, extra, well, maybe they can have a lower ENY plane, most won't be flying that far to get one.
How would that be done? Have a semi-permeable membrane that only lets so many 5 ENY planes cross a sector line?
Have code to figure the front line bases (who owns what), compare numbers of players in tower and air for that sector on each side ( or two sectors deep). Create ENY restrictions for the front, for those bases. If you want to up 3 sectors back in a low ENY plane you'll have all that time flying to the fight to think if that was wise.
Like I said, the coding may be a nightmare, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. ANYTHING can be done as long as you can figure out the code for it.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: guncrasher on January 25, 2017, 03:30:20 PM
Code being hard or easy is not the question.
The question is how to convince hitech. Otherwise you still being a dead horse.
Semp
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Wiley on January 25, 2017, 04:11:43 PM
Have code to figure the front line bases (who owns what), compare numbers of players in tower and air for that sector on each side ( or two sectors deep). Create ENY restrictions for the front, for those bases. If you want to up 3 sectors back in a low ENY plane you'll have all that time flying to the fight to think if that was wise.
Like I said, the coding may be a nightmare, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. ANYTHING can be done as long as you can figure out the code for it.
The code's not even the tricky part, the logic of what you want to do is.
Just looking at the above, the rules would need to be map specific. What about bases that are in corners of sectors? How do different field spacings affect this? Etc etc.
Also, suppose it does alter player behavior. Now instead of people rolling a higher ENY plane from the nearest field and coming in low, they're coming in high from the next field over in 5 ENY planes. How does that materially improve the defending side's situation? How often does a 262 launch from the next base over vs a base or two away? Range is often one of the lower ENY planes' strong suits.
I've haven't seen a description of zone ENY that was even remotely close to detailed enough to discuss since I've been here. It is always "somehow".
Wiley.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: popeye on January 26, 2017, 08:03:06 AM
The code's not even the tricky part, the logic of what you want to do is.
Just looking at the above, the rules would need to be map specific. What about bases that are in corners of sectors? How do different field spacings affect this? Etc etc.
Also, suppose it does alter player behavior. Now instead of people rolling a higher ENY plane from the nearest field and coming in low, they're coming in high from the next field over in 5 ENY planes. How does that materially improve the defending side's situation? How often does a 262 launch from the next base over vs a base or two away? Range is often one of the lower ENY planes' strong suits.
I've haven't seen a description of zone ENY that was even remotely close to detailed enough to discuss since I've been here. It is always "somehow".
Wiley.
This is why having numbers affect downtime can be a simpler solution. The "local area" (to be defined) numbers can be computed at the moment a field object is destroyed. So, 10 attackers and 3 defenders in the "local area" at the moment the ack is killed: downtime is 30% of the nominal value. A couple of attackers RTB or get killed, now it is 8 v 3 when the radar is killed: downtime is 38% of the nominal value.
Doesn't matter when or how far away the attackers launched, or how many on either side are sitting in the tower.
I'm sure it could be gamed, but at least no one is deprived of their favorite ride.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: gflyer on January 26, 2017, 08:36:24 AM
Maybe Hitech can implement a premium account, say 30 dollars a month and you are not affected by ENY.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 26, 2017, 09:16:35 AM
If there's any indicator that ENY might be a problem, it's that it seems to be endlessly debatable.
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: whiteman on January 26, 2017, 10:34:08 AM
No the problem is that one country was getting jumped by 2 even though it wasn't the one with numbers...What should have been happening is the country with the same as both the others combined should have been getting hit by both...But unfortunately on Uterus Map the Eastern front is always the most stale because of the distances between the bases or some other reason.
So ENY wasn't working...because the team getting hit by two sides was fighting against 3 to 1 odds with a third of the fighters attacking them being low ENY planes...while they weren't getting any reward for fighting against those odds other then 2 out of 3 being in 20+ ENY planes.....
I would have changed from rooks to bish immediately if I would have known it was that lopsided of a fight....but people on 200 wouldn't advise of the numbers so I went to the low side thinking they were probably getting hit the hardest which was not true and really is unpredictable....which is why 1 hour rule would help...but stubbornness won't let that come back...which is hilarious
You're asking for a perfect utopian dream where everyone equals out and attacks as gentlemen. I can't feel sorry for the bish in that situation. Ive been back two months, the rooks are constantly backed up to their last bases with bish owning 20+ perecent regularly. On top of that the numbers are so unbalanced it doesn't seem to matter as the rooks can't gain any of that ground back. I'm going to guess the bish resets that map like they did at least twice on the weekend.
So again I say eny did its job, it's not made to stop the players from on either side of it from all attacking one base.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 26, 2017, 11:22:38 AM
The basic combat front in the game is roughly the fight inside of a 2x2 sector area. Two sectors is about the maximum amount of time and attention span a none strat raid group is willing to put into traveling anywhere. Single players in bombers or a fighter are outliers and not relevant. Samples of population density per a super grid defined by 2x2 sector chunks could be targeted. Then a secondary function to track if half of two adjacent 2x2 have morphed into a 2x2 combat front. ENY could then be applied inside of the sample area.
You would end up with most furballs of any size flying EW-MW planes while greifers would know to up from outside of the 2x2 and pick everyone in late war rides. Upping outside of the 2x2 to fly back in with numbers turns the game into one long boring fly to the fight game to avoid localized ENY. Hitech would still get beaten up over his choice of numbers to trigger the localized ENY just as he is for the current global ENY.
Localized ENY types of penalties, variable down times by localized population, all work in two country war games. When you throw in more countries, punishments designed to even population numbers have more effect as a global function. Unless one of the countries decides to go on a walk out over the whole issue.
Are the rook squads protesting ENY with a walkout or, what is being, or was done to the rook players when they were at a competitive population size a few months back that has so demoralized them? An organized walk out was guaranteed to cause this much vitriol in the forums against Hitech. Casual visitors of this BBS looking to see if AH3 is worth trying out, would walk away and never return after reading all of this fake bad press about how bad Hitech is with his customer support.
Gotta wonder how you guys are helping this game get back to 400 player nights in the MA.....
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: Vraciu on January 26, 2017, 08:15:02 PM
Such is human nature, and I have seen this happen more then I can begin to count.
It goes something like this, player is not having as much fun as they used to (in reality nothing has changed with how the game works). Player starts looking for reasons that the game must be making them not having as much fun as they used to. They find something and state it is the reason they are happy. Strange thing is you change it and they still are not having fun.
HiTech
Completely disagree.
The ENY monster has NEVER been this big a PITA. In the past it was an occasional thing. It is now happening on a constant basis even during off peak times.
You said you tweaked it so I will give it a shot and compare, but it is not some excuse to complain.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 26, 2017, 08:16:45 PM
Jeez. so fly rook. They NEVER have ENY nowadays. If it's that big a deal, get the squad to fly rook: rooks need all the help they can get nowadays. Some people whine just to whine.
The ENY monster has NEVER been this big a PITA. In the past it was an occasional thing. It is now happening on a constant basis even during off peak times.
You said you tweaked it so I will give it a shot and compare, but it is not some excuse to complain.
I suggested town resupply was OP after a year being away...during that time is when the overhaul on the strats and stuff happened (2012??) but yea it's because I am unhappy :aok
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: save on January 27, 2017, 09:49:50 AM
Hi Popey, The problem is still 2:1 odds makes all attackers look good regardless of downtime, not all pilots are here to win the map, but are trying to survive in a many vs many -> defenders fighters vs fighters/bombers/attack against overwhelming odds.
The lower side can pretty much only react to the numerous sides attacks, even if downtime of a field is short.
This is why having numbers affect downtime can be a simpler solution. The "local area" (to be defined) numbers can be computed at the moment a field object is destroyed. So, 10 attackers and 3 defenders in the "local area" at the moment the ack is killed: downtime is 30% of the nominal value. A couple of attackers RTB or get killed, now it is 8 v 3 when the radar is killed: downtime is 38% of the nominal value.
Doesn't matter when or how far away the attackers launched, or how many on either side are sitting in the tower.
I'm sure it could be gamed, but at least no one is deprived of their favorite ride.
Title: Re: For the love of all that is holy, please KILL ENY!
Post by: hitech on January 27, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
How can you be dead right on a question? :headscratch:
HiTech
Page after page of commentary... He is right on this ISSUE. I said ISSUE , that being ENY. :cheers:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mbailey on January 27, 2017, 02:13:14 PM
I have a backup that's 35eny....works great. I don't mind it
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 27, 2017, 03:29:50 PM
POTW just announced going rook until this blows over and the 80th already went. Watch, now the hoard will go rook and start this up all over again. By the way, all yall rook who have been on the nightly walk out, if you show up all together to enjoy having numbers again. With the 80th and POTW in rook land, this whining will start back up here in the forums for either the knights or bish...... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 27, 2017, 03:42:56 PM
POTW just announced going rook until this blows over and the 80th already went. Watch, now the hoard will go rook and start this up all over again. By the way, all yall rook who have been on the nightly walk out, if you show up all together to enjoy having numbers again. With the 80th and POTW in rook land, this whining will start back up here in the forums for either the knights or bish...... :rolleyes:
yes because it doesn't matter if 2 squads switch it's still an overall problem...Knights only recently got hit with the numbers...before it was bish complaining about it and before that rooks....I still think it's tied to the side switch time being too long.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Bruv119 on January 27, 2017, 04:06:14 PM
Make sure you give some classes on defending and attacking the Bish promptly. :devil
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 27, 2017, 04:39:17 PM
Junky asking HiTech for the millionth time to change stuff.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 27, 2017, 06:46:02 PM
I think getting a small change to the M3's impact on town object rebuild time might be a longer pier to walk down at this point. The side switch time pier seems to be unavailable for dead horse beating displays until further notice. (http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/deadhorse.gif)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 27, 2017, 08:10:39 PM
Funny. I posted on 200 that ENY had hit us and I was changing sides. Copped crap on PM's.
IMO ENY has no place in the game. I usually log off but today I chose to change sides and got harassed for it.
Thats because a lot of players are pathetic and truly believes that everyone are spying on them and that you should be to loyal to a chess piece instead of doing whatever you want to have fun cause its a game...
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Hungry on January 28, 2017, 10:58:37 AM
25 pages on my screen in this thread, one thing for certain, why would a new guy want any part of this if he happened to read the forums before he tried the game, the only saving grace would be if he realized that this is in the wish list forum, and knew what it is and is for, even then......
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Volron on January 28, 2017, 11:29:13 AM
Thats because a lot of players are pathetic and truly believes that everyone are spying on them and that you should be to loyal to a chess piece instead of doing whatever you want to have fun cause its a game...
Makes the few of us who just prefer to stick to one side, look bad. I just didn't care to switch sides. :) And I didn't care if you switch sides due to ENY. Welcome! :aok As I have mentioned before, ENY rarely affects the bombers that I generally flew and even if it does, I won't be hurting for selection. And there are a CRAP TON more fighters to choose from with high ENY going than bombers. :)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 28, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
25 pages on my screen in this thread, one thing for certain, why would a new guy want any part of this if he happened to read the forums before he tried the game, the only saving grace would be if he realized that this is in the wish list forum, and knew what it is and is for, even then......
I doubt many gamers look at a furom of a game to help them decide whether or not they want to play a game...most likely they look at trailers...which to my knowledge AH3 does not have currently.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Hungry on January 28, 2017, 11:38:00 AM
instead of doing whatever you want to have fun cause its a game...
And what if being loyal to a chess piece is what causes you to have fun, there's a fine line between trying to make the game better in your perception and trying to tell others what to do to the point of name calling
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Hungry on January 28, 2017, 11:39:32 AM
I doubt many gamers look at a furom of a game to help them decide whether or not they want to play a game...most likely they look at trailers...which to my knowledge AH3 does not have currently.
could be, I always do for a number of reasons, players and what I might expect technically from my pc in terms of errors I might encounter
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 28, 2017, 12:22:15 PM
And what if being loyal to a chess piece is what causes you to have fun, there's a fine line between trying to make the game better in your perception and trying to tell others what to do to the point of name calling
I dont care if you choose to be loyal to a side, its your choice. i was talking about those who thinks that everyone should be loyal and accuse other players of being spies etc because they have switched sides. See the difference?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 28, 2017, 12:46:56 PM
Funny. I posted on 200 that ENY had hit us and I was changing sides. Copped crap on PM's.
IMO ENY has no place in the game. I usually log off but today I chose to change sides and got harassed for it.
the beauty of it is that now you can shoot down all those PM owners without the killshooter mechanism getting in the way... :old:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 10:35:17 AM
I was up last weekend but did not fly all week due to ENY. Just reporting this - no need to reply about the virtues of other rides or side-switching. I started this thread to gather data about how ENY is affecting people's use of the game.
So that is my report about me. I am not canceling my account. Just playing less.
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 29, 2017, 10:49:10 AM
Again, it's not ENY that's affecting your use of the game. It's you. Stop trying to 'prove' a falsehood. Thank you. :cool: :cheers:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
As I said, I'm not speaking for others, and God knows I'm easily ignored.
I'm playing less because of ENY! That's all I'm saying!
If I'm in the minority on this, I'm not sure why I need to be ganged like a goonie on the deck instead of ignored like B-29s at 30k.
:-)
Mutha
I'm just offering you a more realistic perspective and not buying your claim. You are flying less because you refuse to switch sides or to fly a less uber ride while your side enjoys number superiority. That's on you, not HT or the rest of the community..
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 29, 2017, 11:12:26 AM
I'm just offering you a more realistic perspective and not buying your claim. You are flying less because you refuse to switch sides or to fly a less uber ride while your side enjoys number superiority. That's on you, not HT or the rest of the community..
I am flying less because of ENY!
Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 29, 2017, 11:17:48 AM
You can believe that if you want but if you insist on posting that in the AH forum over and over I'll keep calling BS. You're flying less and posting about that because you're stubborn and petulant.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: caldera on January 29, 2017, 11:25:11 AM
As I said, I'm not speaking for others, and God knows I'm easily ignored.
I'm playing less because of ENY! That's all I'm saying!
If I'm in the minority on this, I'm not sure why I need to be ganged like a goonie on the deck instead of ignored like B-29s at 30k.
:-)
Mutha
Ditto. But Hitech says he tweaked it so I am gonna' dive back in after I finish a new skin.
If my squadron stays on a side opposite me because I switch to get my Mustang I will fight our mutual enemy and not my own guys. I don't care what some urchin says on 200 at this point.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 29, 2017, 11:29:53 AM
It's effects have changed/magnified with player population changes. Don't be obtuse, bruh.
Any way, Dale says he has tweaked it so I am giving it all a few weeks to see how it works out.
I'm not being obtuse but you P-51D fetishists are intractable. You have to have your EZ mode plane at all times and that's that. Maybe I only want to fly the 262 all the time and it's not fair that it's perked.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 11:40:54 AM
When it comes to forum posts you guys need to work on your energy management!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 29, 2017, 11:45:21 AM
I'm not being obtuse but you P-51D fetishists are intractable. You have to have your EZ mode plane at all times and that's that. Maybe I only want to fly the 262 all the time and it's not fair that it's perked.
Go back and read what I wrote.
When I go weeks without being able to fly it EVERY SINGLE TIME I log in that's not ME being intractible that's a broken system.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 29, 2017, 11:49:31 AM
When I go weeks without being able to fly it EVERY SINGLE TIME I log in (because my side has number superiority and I refuse to deal with the design that's existed since well before I joined AH) that's not ME being intractible ...
Yes, it is.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 29, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
Arlo,
If Vraciu had his way, then he would be in here raging against Hitech for allowing hoards of players swamping his country with his favorite ride and making him logoff because the game would be unplayable. Then Vraciu would want Hitech to punish them with a rule to limit their access to his favorite ride. Then Hitech would invent ENY and Vraciu would be back in here raging against Hitech because Hitech did what he wanted.
Hitech has always been screwed coming or going since I can remember. And I was there when Vraciu's favorite ride was abused and Hitech created ENY to address that abuse by numbers.
Is there really any point to this other than Vraciu knows better but doesn't give a ratz hairy bits? That's usually O'l crazy uncle Harry the in-laws keep the booze and young children out of the same room with during Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
If Vraciu had his way, then he would be in here raging against Hitech for allowing hoards of players swamping his country with his favorite ride and making him logoff because the game would be unplayable. Then Vraciu would want Hitech to punish them with a rule to limit their access to his favorite ride. Then Hitech would invent ENY and Vraciu would be back in here raging against Hitech because Hitech did what he wanted.
Hitech has always been screwed coming or going since I can remember. And I was there when Vraciu's favorite ride was abused and Hitech created ENY to address that abuse by numbers.
Is there really any point to this other than Vraciu knows better but doesn't give a ratz hairy bits? That's usually O'l crazy uncle Harry the in-laws keep the booze and young children out of the same room with during Thanksgiving and Christmas.
V's weird. Wait, that's what you said. :)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 12:34:09 PM
Nothing odd about it, I was was Bzs all through AW and was Rooks through AH, it was common place then, the only reason some find it fashionable now is because the game is struggling and some people are using side switching as a way to balance and preserve the game. Which is fine, just don't expect me to do it
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 29, 2017, 01:44:33 PM
If Vraciu had his way, then he would be in here raging against Hitech for allowing hoards of players swamping his country with his favorite ride and making him logoff because the game would be unplayable. Then Vraciu would want Hitech to punish them with a rule to limit their access to his favorite ride. Then Hitech would invent ENY and Vraciu would be back in here raging against Hitech because Hitech did what he wanted.
Hitech has always been screwed coming or going since I can remember. And I was there when Vraciu's favorite ride was abused and Hitech created ENY to address that abuse by numbers.
Is there really any point to this other than Vraciu knows better but doesn't give a ratz hairy bits? That's usually O'l crazy uncle Harry the in-laws keep the booze and young children out of the same room with during Thanksgiving and Christmas.
You don't speak for me and *NOTHING* I have said advocates this. That being said, ENY doesn't really matter when you have 60 players online. The horde is the horde.
The Bish and the Nits have their little purse fight in early-war rides and the Rooks have to fly half way across the map to find a battle.
Put words in someone else's mouth, bub.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 29, 2017, 01:49:44 PM
It means that arlo can't understand why everyone else isn't seeing things the way he sees them!
I am trying!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been ignoring him for well over a year. You should try it. It's in your Profile Tab. Modify Settings - Edit Buddies/Ignore List. Just type in his name and click on the auto fill. Gonna' put bustr in there as well since all he does is insult me and lie about what I've said.
Mutha, I am in your court on this one. It's detracting from the fun of the game. My flying has gone from 15 hours a day to that much in a week because of it. Now, Hitech did say he's tweaked it. So we will see.
I will give Dale credit, he definitely is involved as opposed to being an absentee owner. Skuzzy as well. At least they're reading what we say unlike a lot of businesses these days.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 29, 2017, 01:51:34 PM
Nothing odd about it, I was was Bzs all through AW and was Rooks through AH, it was common place then, the only reason some find it fashionable now is because the game is struggling and some people are using side switching as a way to balance and preserve the game. Which is fine, just don't expect me to do it
WBs was good about side switching when I was there. But we didn't have chess pieces.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 29, 2017, 01:54:03 PM
You can believe that if you want but if you insist on posting that in the AH forum over and over I'll keep calling BS. You're flying less and posting about that because you're stubborn and petulant.
Actually good point not flying but posting. As I said before if it really bugged me I'd just quit. But it bugs me just me just enough to post about it.
But then it gives us all something to do!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 29, 2017, 02:26:34 PM
Also, no need to mute anyone here - we are all friends with a common interest to debate.
And if ENY got tweaked right this thread will die! Yay!
Mutha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BowHTR on January 29, 2017, 02:45:15 PM
I'm not searching for it. You wrote it. I bet it's in the FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S HOLY thread that magically disappeared.
I made a specific request about adjusting when it kicks in and you said, "Already implemented."
Has been since shortly after ENY was written. I may have miss read it, if you were asking for the ENY to not start until a specific number of players were in the arena. Instead of making a change to what it is currently set at.
HiTech
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 30, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
Has been since shortly after ENY was written. I may have miss read it, if you were asking for the ENY to not start until a specific number of players were in the arena. Instead of making a change to what it is currently set at.
HiTech
HiTech
Oh. Well then it's still gonna be screwed up off peak.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 30, 2017, 10:46:41 AM
Has been since shortly after ENY was written. I may have miss read it, if you were asking for the ENY to not start until a specific number of players were in the arena. Instead of making a change to what it is currently set at.
HiTech
We cross posted.
I am suggesting a shallower ramp up when numbers are lower. Then you can bend the curve upward as numbers increase to track the trajectory as it is currently.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: BowHTR on January 30, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 30, 2017, 11:17:07 AM
Well looks like ENY is working.
As the Pigs on the Wing have made the hard decision to go from Knights to Rooks, we are all better off for it. As usual, the solution was in OUR hands and all it took was for one fine squad to recognize that, and then choose to do something about it.
Since they switched we are all enjoying ourselves more because now the arena is much more balanced than before.
They could have sat on their hands and whined, but that doesn't seem to do much good.
Please, let's keep ENY as it is written. Maybe we continue the discussion about individual plane ENY values and whether or not they should be tweaked.
What a great game, LET"S PLAY!
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: mutha on January 30, 2017, 11:22:17 AM
Well, now what will we argue about?? :grin:
WTG HiTech! :salute
-Mutha
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 30, 2017, 01:14:08 PM
As the Pigs on the Wing have made the hard decision to go from Knights to Rooks, we are all better off for it. As usual, the solution was in OUR hands and all it took was for one fine squad to recognize that, and then choose to do something about it.
Since they switched we are all enjoying ourselves more because now the arena is much more balanced than before.
They could have sat on their hands and whined, but that do :headscratch:esn't seem to do much good.
Please, let's keep ENY as it is written. Maybe we continue the discussion about individual plane ENY values and whether or not they should be tweaked.
What a great game, LET"S PLAY!
Unfortunately it comes at a cost to us...at least one member is taking a break from the game until we get back to Knights and our past switches has made us lose members who just don't play anymore. Yep ENY is doing it's job..or is waystin doing....oh wait nm :bolt:
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Vraciu on January 30, 2017, 01:19:40 PM
Unfortunately it comes at a cost to us...at least one member is taking a break from the game until we get back to Knights and our past switches has made us lose members who just don't play anymore. Yep ENY is doing it's job..or is waystin doing....oh wait nm :bolt:
I would be playing right now (and would have all morning) but I am betting ENY is raging so I am cleaning guns instead.
It's working all right.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 30, 2017, 01:22:54 PM
Unfortunately it comes at a cost to us...at least one member is taking a break from the game until we get back to Knights and our past switches has made us lose members who just don't play anymore. Yep ENY is doing it's job..or is waystin doing....oh wait nm :bolt:
:headscratch: They could just stay on the side they prefer to be on, nothing says that the entire squad must be on the same side at all times.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: bustr on January 30, 2017, 01:27:06 PM
Boss Hog for 15 years says pigs don't shoot pigs.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 30, 2017, 01:44:33 PM
It can be kind of fun when you find out that you are fighting a squaddie., i even tried to get the nits to kill Havermyr (but they failed of course, stupid nits.. :mad: )
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: whiteman on January 30, 2017, 01:55:33 PM
Best laughs I've had were shooting down squad mates, it only happened 4 or 5 times in 10 years.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 30, 2017, 02:10:59 PM
Best laughs I've had were shooting down squad mates, it only happened 4 or 5 times in 10 years.
We have done the same in the past but in the DA and custom arenas....in the MA we are the only ones the entire squad trusts so we stick to the same side.
JRs are grown-ups and don't take it personally. :cool: :cheers:
Was that a jab from the Jolly Rogers at Pigs on the Wing???
You guys don't want that fight...would end up with your entire squad drowning in your own tears like "grown ups".
We'll settle it quickly the old fashion way...I'll DA your best stick, beat him then you submit defeat to POTW so we can save some of your tears for more important issues.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zoney on January 30, 2017, 05:52:14 PM
We have done the same in the past but in the DA and custom arenas....in the MA we are the only ones the entire squad trusts so we stick to the same side.
Except me. You guys trust me. Must have just been an oversight.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 30, 2017, 06:03:57 PM
Was that a jab from the Jolly Rogers at Pigs on the Wing???
You guys don't want that fight...would end up with your entire squad drowning in your own tears like "grown ups".
We'll settle it quickly the old fashion way...I'll DA your best stick, beat him then you submit defeat to POTW so we can save some of your tears for more important issues.
No, it was pointing out a strength of the JRs. If you took that personally then that's on you. But wouldn't flying for different chess pieces and shooting each other down without taking it all personal-like be more like proof that you're a grown-up, too? :aok
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 30, 2017, 07:45:42 PM
No, it was pointing out a strength of the JRs. If you took that personally then that's on you. But wouldn't flying for different chess pieces and shooting each other down without taking it all personal-like be more like proof that you're a grown-up, too? :aok
Just making it known...talk crap about POTW...get beat down.
Simple answer....we don't want to...doesn't make you grown men that they have shot each other down and didn't take offense...half the Jolly Rogers probably fly like women only engaging from the advantage...not that I have that much experience flying against them but that's the general makeup of the AH community...people flying like women...then they get called "good"
Example Jayro.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 30, 2017, 08:21:02 PM
Just making it known...talk crap about POTW...get beat down.
Simple answer....we don't want to...doesn't make you grown men that they have shot each other down and didn't take offense...half the Jolly Rogers probably fly like women only engaging from the advantage...not that I have that much experience flying against them but that's the general makeup of the AH community...people flying like women...then they get called "good"
Example Jayro.
Well, confusing skill in a game for maturity isn't anything new in AH or AW. But relax, nobody was picking on you and you don't have a reason to get unhinged or beat your chest. I get along with POTW. Always have. Ask some of your squadies. ;) :cheers:
By the way ... if you haven't experienced something then it's probably wise not to pretend you know about it. ;)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 31, 2017, 07:43:13 AM
You misunderstood a few of my posts...first, you bring up being "grown men" which what I'm saying is that half the community flys very timid because they are afraid to die(doesn't matter if it's their squad shooting them down or not...they have a huge EGO but say they don't that can't take dieing to someone)...which you say the JRs aren't but from experience with the entire MA there will be more then a few.....You don't have to be Good to not fly timid.Can't believe I'm going to say this but Midway was a shining example of that...he wasn't good but he always looked for a fight...but timid flying often leads to higher landed kills which is what a lot base their opinion of skill off of in Aces High....example again....Jayro.
Second, I don't care if you think you are friends with my squad...you aren't as much as you think judging by the response to my Facebook post on our page...And it wouldn't matter even if you were extremely liked....take a shot at POTW and we will hit back...you have since retracted that it wasn't so my initial smack talk doesn't matter...just remember it's there for future reference....that goes for anyone who want to come at POTW.
Done.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Zimme83 on January 31, 2017, 09:03:24 AM
There are a VERY SMALL few who don't trust anyone but pigs...I personally like flying with any member of JG11 :aok Just making it known...talk crap about POTW...get beat down.
Simple answer....we don't want to...doesn't make you grown men that they have shot each other down and didn't take offense...half the Jolly Rogers probably fly like women only engaging from the advantage...not that I have that much experience flying against them but that's the general makeup of the AH community...people flying like women...then they get called "good"
Example Jayro.
And by this you mean that women are always bad at flying? Are there any difference between how men and woman plays this game?
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 31, 2017, 09:16:01 AM
You misunderstood a few of my posts...first, you bring up being "grown men" which what I'm saying is that half the community flys very timid because they are afraid to die(doesn't matter if it's their squad shooting them down or not...they have a huge EGO but say they don't that can't take dieing to someone)...which you say the JRs aren't but from experience with the entire MA there will be more then a few.....You don't have to be Good to not fly timid.Can't believe I'm going to say this but Midway was a shining example of that...he wasn't good but he always looked for a fight...but timid flying often leads to higher landed kills which is what a lot base their opinion of skill off of in Aces High....example again....Jayro.
Second, I don't care if you think you are friends with my squad...you aren't as much as you think judging by the response to my Facebook post on our page...And it wouldn't matter even if you were extremely liked....take a shot at POTW and we will hit back...you have since retracted that it wasn't so my initial smack talk doesn't matter...just remember it's there for future reference....that goes for anyone who want to come at POTW.
Done.
Nobody 'came at the POTW.' You're using that as an excuse to go off topic and have a hissy at someone who doesn't agree with you about ENY. Then you go all hypocritical and go after the JRs because you kinda think you almost know my squad from flying in the MA. Take a pill and go back to whining about ENY. ;)
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: JunkyII on January 31, 2017, 04:06:02 PM
Nobody 'came at the POTW.' You're using that as an excuse to go off topic and have a hissy at someone who doesn't agree with you about ENY. Then you go all hypocritical and go after the JRs because you kinda think you almost know my squad from flying in the MA. Take a pill and go back to whining about ENY. ;)
Wait...who went off topic first? Pretty sure I quoted you.
And as far as ENY is concerned...I still think 1 hour rule is the problem for all of the ENY hoopla...POTW shouldn't have to change sides to fix it...
Oh and hypocritical??? Saying I can beat anyone in your squad in a 1v1 isn't hypocritical...it's confidence mixed with some arrogance....challenge is still on the table if you'd like me to provide proof to it though...since you are all grown men a simple challenge shouldn't be a big deal right??? Oh wait what would you call it if they didn't take the fight since dieing doesn't matter oh wait.... :airplane:
And by this you mean that women are always bad at flying? Are there any difference between how men and woman plays this game?
No that's me being rude....Blukitty owns most of the community probably including me....You are right I should just call them cowards at playing a video game but I'll get crap for that too.
Title: Re: Who Loves ENY?
Post by: Arlo on January 31, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
It isn't broken. POTW could stay on the high number side and fly less uber rides or they can do what they did and balance the arena. That is exactly how it works. As far as your need to chest-beat and try to turn this into a squadron noodle measuring issue because I responded to a squadie the way I did .... bless your heart.