Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on August 02, 2018, 01:10:23 PM
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Would someone please post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. Thank you.
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Suggest loading a MA map in the SAE with somewhat more conventional settings...
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Are you wanting to fly without fights or what?
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Are you wanting to fly without fights or what?
Yes, he is.
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At least here is what Hitech is doing. Either he likes early morning furballing or he was reviewing his recent radar change and how players were responding to it. Saw him online this morning. Who knows, maybe he will put radar back to the old settings for the weekend or until the next patch where he wants to test more combinations with the new settings.
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For the next patch I am writing some new radar option flags so configurations can change and I can test some different combinations.
Enemy Vehicles On Radar
Friendly Vehicles On Radar
Show Bombers as Fighters
Also the BelowRadarAlt will remain active even if full radar is enabled.
It can be set to 0 to disable it.
HiTech
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
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The new dar mode fundamentally changes the game, but without the fun in fundamental...more like suckamental. It promotes bomb-and-bailers and avoiding combat even more than before. I saw 2 bombbailers and a fighter bailer last night.
From the air I watched a gv spawn vulchfest that was just silly. There were 6-8 friendly gvs outnumbering a few enemy trying to spawn in. A pilot and a gv'er were begging for a turn at the vulching of 2 or three enemy gvs spawning in. "Can I get the next one guys, can I get the next one?" Pathetic.
This changes my game play enough that I won't be in the game as much as I used to. Last night I stopped playing earlier than usual because I wasn't having the fun I ussually have with the game. That was a first for me in Aces High.
Maybe I'll entertain myself tonight by hitting radars. Har, har.
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
Of course they do. But truth becomes optional when people have an agenda. The "avoid a fight" mantra might have even infected HT.
Goebbels would have been proud.
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Of course they do. But truth becomes optional when people have an agenda. The "avoid a fight" mantra might have even infected HT.
Goebbels would have been proud.
Spoken like a true man of the Party.
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
That’s not fighting. That’s dying with style. :rofl :cheers:
Oh my gawd. They killed Kenai! You bastages! :old:
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That’s not fighting. That’s dying with style. :rofl :cheers:
Oh my gawd. They killed Kenai! You bastages! :old:
:D
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Yes, HT has lost a lot of players, so something has to be done so the players can find each other on the map. Oh, by the way I dislike a lot.
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Maybe...GET MORE PLAYERS
leave the dar alone
Then more players more action.. dont scare off the remaining few..
But what do i know.. taken a 2 week break ( kids got fortnite)
Gave it a go..what a noob.. its so frustrating.. but thats what being a noob is all about.. getting wooped left right and center..trying to figure it out..i die alorta lora times trying to figure sheet out.. makes me think what it must be like to be a noob here.. very similar.. but thats the way of the noob..they gotta pay in blood to get the knowledge.. dont pander to em..after all..they are lowly grunts.. cannon fodder.. always have been
.should always be..
<S> friends and foes
Jimmy
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We get plenty of new players. They leave after five mins. It’s possible they see what looks to be zero action and just leave.
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I do not know why they leave. If you (they) are looking for more action, maybe HT could make the maps smaller , you know like a5X5 square grid area. And a universal radar.
A have noticed, the enemy CV groups are not shown or maybe I haven't noticed.
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The new dar mode fundamentally changes the game, but without the fun in fundamental...more like suckamental. It promotes bomb-and-bailers and avoiding combat even more than before. I saw 2 bombbailers and a fighter bailer last night.
From the air I watched a gv spawn vulchfest that was just silly. There were 6-8 friendly gvs outnumbering a few enemy trying to spawn in. A pilot and a gv'er were begging for a turn at the vulching of 2 or three enemy gvs spawning in. "Can I get the next one guys, can I get the next one?" Pathetic.
This changes my game play enough that I won't be in the game as much as I used to. Last night I stopped playing earlier than usual because I wasn't having the fun I ussually have with the game. That was a first for me in Aces High.
Maybe I'll entertain myself tonight by hitting radars. Har, har.
You got it all wrong Hellbuck. That sounds like a 6-8 GV bomb fest that did not happen. :aok
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When I first got back on, I got lost for a little bit with all the tabs on top trying to figure out where to go
Maybe rearrange the front screen with picture images for the current arenas instead of clicking on tabs. Clocking the image takes you to the next screen to pick the available arena you want to go in. Rename the melee arena to total war or something like that, which would have the original radar settings like it used to be. And also add an instant action arena of something small that you can take off, get to alt, and fight an enemy. That arena would have radar full on like it is now. Another idea for that arena is to have dar dots but of a different color for AI aircraft flying around in a preset area, like bombing runs, patrols, etc. Might give the instant action ADD crowd some interest
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Because heads are exploding and a full meltdown with toxic emanations is in effect. You guys are not following all of the posts about this none event.
August 1
For the next patch I am writing some new radar option flags so configurations can change and I can test some different combinations.
Enemy Vehicles On Radar
Friendly Vehicles On Radar
Show Bombers as Fighters
Also the BelowRadarAlt will remain active even if full radar is enabled.
It can be set to 0 to disable it.
HiTech
August 3
My current thinking is it will change Tuesday with a new test consisting of full radar in tower (with the exception of below radar), and different settings when in flight.
HiTech
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This last message looks like he wants to parallel a central control that see's full radar in a region(field radar ring or HQ total radar look??) while your clip board map will be like listening to the radio getting vectoring info. Pretty much how it worked in WW2 unless your plane had radar.
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Because heads are exploding and a full meltdown with toxic emanations is in effect. You guys are not following all of the posts about this none event.
August 1
For the next patch I am writing some new radar option flags so configurations can change and I can test some different combinations.
Enemy Vehicles On Radar
Friendly Vehicles On Radar
Show Bombers as Fighters
Also the BelowRadarAlt will remain active even if full radar is enabled.
It can be set to 0 to disable it.
HiTech
August 3
My current thinking is it will change Tuesday with a new test consisting of full radar in tower (with the exception of below radar), and different settings when in flight.
HiTech
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This last message looks like he wants to parallel a central control that see's full radar in a region(field radar ring or HQ total radar look??) while your clip board map will be like listening to the radio getting vectoring info. Pretty much how it worked in WW2 unless your plane had radar.
+1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Smaller maps still don't convey action to a noob. The ADD generation. . .
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Then let's pray the tower look radar on the clip board is everything in the arena. Tanks, meh, give the poor guys a break. I already use F3 in the tower to help vector my tanks when the enemy is close enough. Like making that long climb up the radar tower with low powered binoculars to look around. Now that would be an interesting observation position if Hitech let us hit Key_2 in the tower and be on top of it with optics as good as the TigerII on zoom. It would appeal to the ADD generation. Certainly would help on vBases so you can turn 360 scanning the local area. But, F3 gets you higher up, it's just kind of disjointed from the immersion.
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Yeah, tanks can do what they want as long as we have dar bar for them at airfields.
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
I never thought you would be one to complain. come in and try it.
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Maybe...GET MORE PLAYERS
leave the dar alone
Then more players more action.. dont scare off the remaining few..
But what do i know.. taken a 2 week break ( kids got fortnite)
Gave it a go..what a noob.. its so frustrating.. but thats what being a noob is all about.. getting wooped left right and center..trying to figure it out..i die alorta lora times trying to figure sheet out.. makes me think what it must be like to be a noob here.. very similar.. but thats the way of the noob..they gotta pay in blood to get the knowledge.. dont pander to em..after all..they are lowly grunts.. cannon fodder.. always have been
.should always be..
<S> friends and foes
Jimmy
WHERE THE HELL YOU BEEN? on another holiday?
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
with full radar up it has been promoting a lot more fights
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We get plenty of new players. They leave after five mins. It’s possible they see what looks to be zero action and just leave.
I think that's a big part of it.
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Yep I hate fighting!! :rolleyes:
Now what kind of question is that?? You both know me better than that.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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OK Hew to the line, let the chips fall where they may.
My last words on the subject.
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dar bars are good enough.
Anybody who thinks pinpoint map wide radar is necessary for finding a fight, isnt really looking for a fight.
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dar bars are good enough.
Anybody who thinks pinpoint map wide radar is necessary for finding a fight, isnt really looking for a fight.
Good luck with that. :aok
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Good luck with that. :aok
Why you say that? do you need somebody to hold your hand all the way up until you D1.0?
Dar bars are the perfect IMO, they give you enough idea of where to look but you still.. *GASP* ACTUALLY HAVE TO TRY to find your target.. which of course leads to having good SA and strategy and .. you know all that stuff we apparently don't have time for anymore.
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Why you say that? do you need somebody to hold your hand all the way up until you D1.0?
Dar bars are the perfect IMO, they give you enough idea of where to look but you still.. *GASP* ACTUALLY HAVE TO TRY to find your target.. which of course leads to having good SA and strategy and .. you know all that stuff we apparently don't have time for anymore.
Fire! Fire! Someone call 9-11! Oh the humanity.
(Some folks just don't get it.)
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I had to logon today to see what was going on. :confused:
I thought that it was interesting. :cheers:
However, full DAR all the time? :eek:
It could be interesting to have a reg 25 mile DAR with emy GVs but with a hard Radar - say same hardness as a VH. :old:
(Don't have any thoughts on how long it should stay down for....) :bolt:
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Wow this is really fun GVing. Drive to the tank icon and he either shoots you or you shoot him rinse and do it all over again. No hunt no strategy just drive to other guys icon. stupid stupid stupid.
Fire! Fire! Someone call 9-11! Oh the humanity.
(Some folks just don't get it.)
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Dar bars are the perfect IMO, they give you enough idea of where to look but you still.. *GASP* ACTUALLY HAVE TO TRY to find your target.. which of course leads to having good SA and strategy and .. you know all that stuff we apparently don't have time for anymore.
Yup (air darbars, not the GV kind, they suck big hairy meatballs).
Guessing HT is trying very hard to bring new players in and is dumbing the game down as a result. I get it that newbs will be more inclined to poke around vs log off if they see every player all the time, but HT is likely to lose a number of long term players (and possible mentors to newbs) whose porridge just got peed on in trying.
A better solution imo is to have dedicated helpers to newbs, and very clear and exact ways in which newbs can get in touch with these helpers. That's probably what got me past my 1st two weeks. Sadly, I no longer remember the name of my helper, but he was far more patient than I would have been in helping me get a grasp on AH's utter basics--which are NOT obvious to people checking the game out, I didn't even know how to use my friggin' mike for example!
HT has said that people new to the game are often gone very, very quickly. THAT's the time to catch them. NOT by spoiling the game for the people who have been here for years, or even decades; but by having dedicated helpers whom they can easily get in touch with (and KNOW they can get in touch with) to help them get them acclimated before they lose interest and log off.
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I'm betting Vraciu (I call him ACHOO with sincere fondness) will reach 16,756 BBS posts by December 21, 2018. Who's with me on this? :old:
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Wow this is really fun GVing. Drive to the tank icon and he either shoots you or you shoot him rinse and do it all over again. No hunt no strategy just drive to other guys icon. stupid stupid stupid.
It's a test phase.
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Yup (air darbars, not the GV kind, they suck big hairy meatballs).
Guessing HT is trying very hard to bring new players in and is dumbing the game down as a result. I get it that newbs will be more inclined to poke around vs log off if they see every player all the time, but HT is likely to lose a number of long term players (and possible mentors to newbs) whose porridge just got peed on in trying.
A better solution imo is to have dedicated helpers to newbs, and very clear and exact ways in which newbs can get in touch with these helpers. That's probably what got me past my 1st two weeks. Sadly, I no longer remember the name of my helper, but he was far more patient than I would have been in helping me get a grasp on AH's utter basics--which are NOT obvious to people checking the game out, I didn't even know how to use my friggin' mike for example!
HT has said that people new to the game are often gone very, very quickly. THAT's the time to catch them. NOT by spoiling the game for the people who have been here for years, or even decades; but by having dedicated helpers whom they can easily get in touch with (and KNOW they can get in touch with) to help them get them acclimated before they lose interest and log off.
Dedicated helpers? :rofl
They don't stay long enough to BE helped and who would staff this?
No way that's gonna fly.
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I'm betting Vraciu (I call him ACHOO with sincere fondness) will reach 16,756 BBS posts by December 21, 2018. Who's with me on this? :old:
You using math again? :rofl
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My VOTE is to END full radar.
Dumbest idea in 20 years.
ROX
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I'm betting Vraciu (I call him ACHOO with sincere fondness) will reach 16,756 BBS posts by December 21, 2018. Who's with me on this? :old:
He does like to qnswer every single post.. lucky Hitech having such a dedicated teachers pet.
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Does anyone bother to read what HT posts?
he is testing out some radar ideas and as he stated, he expects to implement another variation on or around Tuesday.
Let the man employ his trade and lets see what solution he is going to implement and test.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He does like to qnswer every single post.. lucky Hitech having such a dedicated teachers pet.
:ahand
Teachers (sic) pet? What’s that?
Heh, I’m as far from that as you can get—I once got a PNG for excessive criticism. But the dog pile of whiners here lately is comical except for being so sad.
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Does anyone bother to read what HT posts?
he is testing out some radar ideas and as he stated, he expects to implement another variation on or around Tuesday.
Let the man employ his trade and lets see what solution he is going to implement and test.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sanity in the face of irrational hysteria. ^^^^
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Posting this here as well as in the other radar thread:
The only suggestion I have for HiTech is this:
1. Theater wide radar view should be attached to the HQ only
2. Not sure if you can get the tower view at the HQ, if not, add it.
3. When Radar is taken down, shrink the theater radar by a percentage until 100% damage, at which point, theater dar is down.
4. After Radar is down, revert to base dar rings, with no GVdar and no Dar Bar.
5. When HQ is down, remove radar completely.
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Wow this is really fun GVing. Drive to the tank icon and he either shoots you or you shoot him rinse and do it all over again. No hunt no strategy just drive to other guys icon. stupid stupid stupid.
What the heck are you doing driving trucks, RV? You're a pilot, not a bus driver. Get back in the air.
- oldman
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Kinda of fun to drive trucks once in a while. :)
What the heck are you doing driving trucks, RV? You're a pilot, not a bus driver. Get back in the air.
- oldman
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Wow this is really fun GVing. Drive to the tank icon and he either shoots you or you shoot him rinse and do it all over again. No hunt no strategy just drive to other guys icon. stupid stupid stupid.
Drive? Just find a place where forward spawns end close to each other. Spawn-shoot-[die|kill]. Tried that yesterday. It was fun for a while. But surely can't be the reason for coming back every month.
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Some of us find fights using stealth..........not dragging around a billboard that says "here I am".
Stealth is part of war and removing it piece by piece will serve up a future that is not kind to the sim.
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Some of us find fights using stealth..........not dragging around a billboard that says "here I am".
Stealth is part of war and removing it piece by piece will serve up a future that is not kind to the sim.
The data will tell that better than conjecture. Stealth (avoidance) has already been unkind. Time to shake things up.
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The data will tell that better than conjecture. Stealth (avoidance) has already been unkind. Time to shake things up.
Might as well turn off of the side switch time rule then as there is no point in spying.
Full dar is not healthy though.
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Might as well turn off of the side switch time rule then as there is no point in spying.
Full dar is not healthy though.
It's healthier than the status quo.
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The data will tell that better than conjecture. Stealth (avoidance) has already been unkind. Time to shake things up.
I'm talking about finding fights and fight avoiders using stealth......not hiding from a fight.
When someone is bombing a strat, you come in NOE not dragging around a dar bar. I also come in on guys deacking a field by flying over even mountainous terrain without generating a dar bar. Sure, I'm way below them but it's a fun challenge.
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I'm talking about finding fights and fight avoiders using stealth......not hiding from a fight.
When someone is bombing a strat, you come in NOE not dragging around a dar bar. I also come in on guys deacking a field by flying over even mountainous terrain without generating a dar bar. Sure, I'm way below them but it's a fun challenge.
You're the exception.
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It's healthier than the status quo.
It's not sufficient for the type of game play in the MA. A world map should not have a world radar.
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Because heads are exploding and a full meltdown with toxic emanations is in effect. You guys are not following all of the posts about this none event.
August 1
For the next patch I am writing some new radar option flags so configurations can change and I can test some different combinations.
Enemy Vehicles On Radar
Friendly Vehicles On Radar
Show Bombers as Fighters
Also the BelowRadarAlt will remain active even if full radar is enabled.
It can be set to 0 to disable it.
HiTech
August 3
My current thinking is it will change Tuesday with a new test consisting of full radar in tower (with the exception of below radar), and different settings when in flight.
HiTech
--------------------------------------------------------
This last message looks like he wants to parallel a central control that see's full radar in a region(field radar ring or HQ total radar look??) while your clip board map will be like listening to the radio getting vectoring info. Pretty much how it worked in WW2 unless your plane had radar.
:aok With the HQ playing a role with radar...surewould be great to lessen hardness of HQ? That would be ONE DAM focuses of action. It would mean so much with knocking it down...would FORCE defenders to engage :uhoh
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Does anyone bother to read what HT posts?
he is testing out some radar ideas and as he stated, he expects to implement another variation on or around Tuesday.
Let the man employ his trade and lets see what solution he is going to implement and test.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ABSOLUTELY! Been a LOT of griping lately..and NOW when he proves he DOES care and pays attention to all the chatter,he gets railed against too. One thing for sure...NO WAY that I could put up with all this "SKY is falling" BS :furious He IS TRYING to address our concerns, to improve game play AND its STILL../ This sucks, fix your game..etc You guys will feel Quite embarrassed if his tweaks end up fixing those issues :rofl
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I'm talking about finding fights and fight avoiders using stealth......not hiding from a fight.
Hunting and surprises is what I enjoyed the most before full dar. Sure there were many bad surprises, but good "presents" made up for it. Like upping a long range fighter after being shot down ib to strategic target in a bomber by a heavy overpowering cannon aircraft and going in again as if making another bombing run. Obviously with a lot of altitude and pouncing the heavy cannon bird so next time the enemy would be thinking more about fighter performance as well and not just the biggest guns.
I liked going around the enemy horde to fight the guys that follow so they drop ords before they get to their target. Had great 1v1 fights because aircraft before the horde often trickled in one by one. So often one of us got shot down before the next guy came in. Many guys following the horde were so confident that they even did not scan the sky or were afk for climb, even when their radar was down and base was flashing. I often took out the radar at the base from where the horde was coming in and flew fast and low to come in at the enemy blind spot. Sure some guys got shot down as sitting ducks but they learned a lesson for the next time.
I liked taking a fighter-bomber to strat object and drop bombs/rockets on it and then trying to fight my way out after losing my altitude advantage in the attacking run.
I liked when aircraft where pulling moves like running away behind a ridge so you would lose icon contact and then reversing to come around and attack the following fighter from one of the blind spots.
I liked when you would go in as axis or allied to attack a field and one guy would see your icon and come up in a good historical match-up aircraft instead of the best late war dogfighter etc.
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LOL asterix.........that's training the enemy to expect one thing and giving them a harsh surprise.
I love doing that but it became nearly impossible when the specific fighter vs bomber icons showed up.
Now, you have to avoid any dar that might show your fighter icon and show up at the enemy strats to wait for the bomber interceptors or fly a TU2, get your bombs out on the way to the strats, and pounce on the enemy interceptors as they climb up to you.
It's getting harder and harder to do anything but gangbang in the phone booth we are being funneled into by these changes.
A lot of people whined about the 49ers long distance vehicle missions but I enjoyed hunting them and later on joining a few.
When an entire country ignores the HQ or city flashing without a dar bar until both are busted down, then it's the fault of the players who think this war sim is only about furballing.
I never saw them lift a finger to check on the city with a fighter sortie.......but when they did, it was with zero stealth so the 49ers knew when to stop shooting and stay hidden.
Many of the "furball only" guys are so freaked out about score that they would never bail a plane to up in defense of an important field is in jeopardy of being captured by the enemy NOE sneak attack.........then they whine about the NOE attacks.
A single defender has busted many of these attacks and some of these lone wolf defenders bailed from a b17 at 25k on a strat run.
The changes cater to a loud and vocal minority and what we now have is boring 9 vs 1 fights.
You guys will never enjoy the awesomeness of having NOE fighters or a long distance wirb. waiting near the enemy ME163 base to whack-a-mole the lifting 163s as your country mega mission heads to the strats.
WTG guys.......being incapable of doing the other 95% of what this game can be has forced the game to become 5% of what it can be simply because you lack the ability to think beyond the furball.
What you now reap is being on the wrong end of 9 vs 1 fights or having to fight 8 friendlies to get a kill on the one enemy plane around.
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It's not sufficient for the type of game play in the MA. A world map should not have a world radar.
Adapt or die, as the man said.
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LOL asterix.........that's training the enemy to expect one thing and giving them a harsh surprise.
I love doing that but it became nearly impossible when the specific fighter vs bomber icons showed up.
Now, you have to avoid any dar that might show your fighter icon and show up at the enemy strats to wait for the bomber interceptors or fly a TU2, get your bombs out on the way to the strats, and pounce on the enemy interceptors as they climb up to you.
It's getting harder and harder to do anything but gangbang in the phone booth we are being funneled into by these changes.
A lot of people whined about the 49ers long distance vehicle missions but I enjoyed hunting them and later on joining a few.
When an entire country ignores the HQ or city flashing without a dar bar until both are busted down, then it's the fault of the players who think this war sim is only about furballing.
I never saw them lift a finger to check on the city with a fighter sortie.......but when they did, it was with zero stealth so the 49ers knew when to stop shooting and stay hidden.
Many of the "furball only" guys are so freaked out about score that they would never bail a plane to up in defense of an important field is in jeopardy of being captured by the enemy NOE sneak attack.........then they whine about the NOE attacks.
A single defender has busted many of these attacks and some of these lone wolf defenders bailed from a b17 at 25k on a strat run.
The changes cater to a loud and vocal minority and what we now have is boring 9 vs 1 fights.
You guys will never enjoy the awesomeness of having NOE fighters or a long distance wirb. waiting near the enemy ME163 base to whack-a-mole the lifting 163s as your country mega mission heads to the strats.
WTG guys.......being incapable of doing the other 95% of what this game can be has forced the game to become 5% of what it can be simply because you lack the ability to think beyond the furball.
What you now reap is being on the wrong end of 9 vs 1 fights or having to fight 8 friendlies to get a kill on the one enemy plane around.
TLDR.
However, insults WILL get one very far in here. :old:
I will take a 9:1 any day over hours of empty sky.
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You guys will never enjoy the awesomeness of having NOE fighters or a long distance wirb. waiting near the enemy ME163 base to whack-a-mole the lifting 163s as your country mega mission heads to the strats.
Yup. You got that right. I would never enjoy that.
- oldman
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That was actually quite fun driving a M3 to a base that did not have any spawns into it and capturing the base leaving the red guys to wonder how it was done. Those days of having fun in the game seem to be gone forever. There is no strategy to the game anymore it is point and shoot. It was fun back in the day when you could drive a GV to a strat undetected if you wanted. There was not one thing in the world wrong with the game not having GV dar. I guess a few complaining squeaky wheels get to control how the rest of us liked to play. This is truly not fun anymore. I guess if it does not change the $15.00 a month will buy me about 3 gallons of fuel in my RV-6.
Yup. You got that right. I would never enjoy that.
- oldman
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Yup. You got that right. I would never enjoy that.
- oldman
:rofl :aok :cheers:
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That was actually quite fun driving a M3 to a base that did not have any spawns into it and capturing the base leaving the red guys to wonder how it was done. Those days of having fun in the game seem to be gone forever. There is no strategy to the game anymore it is point and shoot. It was fun back in the day when you could drive a GV to a strat undetected if you wanted. There was not one thing in the world wrong with the game not having GV dar. I guess a few complaining squeaky wheels get to control how the rest of us liked to play. This is truly not fun anymore. I guess if it does not change the $15.00 a month will buy me about 3 gallons of fuel in my RV-6.
If you can own an RV-6 I doubt you’d miss $15 a month even if you lost it in the street....
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All of this doomsday talk is pretty funny.
public service announcement:
HiTech is testing different solutions concerning radar and more than likely many other areas as well.
Sit back, relax and let the man work.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That was actually quite fun driving a M3 to a base that did not have any spawns into it and capturing the base leaving the red guys to wonder how it was done. Those days of having fun in the game seem to be gone forever. There is no strategy to the game anymore it is point and shoot. It was fun back in the day when you could drive a GV to a strat undetected if you wanted. There was not one thing in the world wrong with the game not having GV dar. I guess a few complaining squeaky wheels get to control how the rest of us liked to play. This is truly not fun anymore. I guess if it does not change the $15.00 a month will buy me about 3 gallons of fuel in my RV-6.
No, what happened was a certain squad abused it, going out of their way to keep dar down not only for hours, but days a couple of times. When something is abused to the point of players logging out in droves and canceling subscriptions, HTC will/must make changes. It was the same with the NOE issues. it was like 90% of all missions were NOE and the defenders were playing "wack-a-mole". They started loggin off and canceling subscriptions and so radar was changed.
The problem with the "open sandbox" is that while there is a wide open range of things to do, it also leaves open avenues where bad game play can be exploited.
This new dar test is something else. Game play was faltering due to not having an easy way to find "action", people are loggin out and leaving and more importantly NEW players are not staying. HTC is again making an adjustment. Is the the final setup? I really doubt it. Will some people quit do to what ever the final setup is? YUP! Thats just the way it is, you cant please all the people all the time. But if 3 or 4 new players stick around for every one that leaves in a huff, Im sure HTC can live with that.
You are all looking at this from YOUR POV. HTC has to look at it from a business POV. Sure he may tick off a few old timers but if it brings in more new players, thats the way it must be. I miss my old game. This game has very little of the game play I enjoyed here 10 years ago, but if you want to stick with the best WWII game out there, you have to adapt. If you cant, well, dont let the door hit you in the a ss on the way out :devil
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Does anyone bother to read what HT posts?
he is testing out some radar ideas and as he stated, he expects to implement another variation on or around Tuesday.
Let the man employ his trade and lets see what solution he is going to implement and test.
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Probably not. HTC making a detailed post in a thread created by them, about testing or changes to the game would be a better idea. Then it wouldnt be neccessary to read through the drool that certain people post on current threads literally all day long. A little clarity would go a long way, without having to read through 1,200 of vracius posts to find answers or relevant information.
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Vracius isn’t the only post bombing these threads.
These threads devolve in to playground bickering very quick
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Vracius isn’t the only post bombing these threads.
These threads devolve in to playground bickering very quick
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Post bombing?
I’m replying to specific questions and references, most of which are directed at me.
If people don’t like it then they can put me on the ignore list. They’re probably not involved in the conversation others and I are having any way.
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Post bombing would be in reference to the number of posts within a short period of time.
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Post bombing would be in reference to the number of posts within a short period of time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That implies a perjorative. (Not necessarily on purpose by you, I might add, as our interactions are basically civil.)
I’m responding to multiple posts and I type fast. It’s not like they’re single sentence posts dropped one word at a time like a certain Rule #11 a few pages back. THAT is post bombing.
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Probably not. HTC making a detailed post in a thread created by them, about testing or changes to the game would be a better idea. Then it wouldnt be neccessary to read through the drool that certain people post on current threads literally all day long. A little clarity would go a long way, without having to read through 1,200 of vracius posts to find answers or relevant information.
:ahand :rolleyes:
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Literally being able to B-line it to players rolling off the field isn't a good thing.
I predict much more BnZ planes to avoid the be-line hoard.
Imo, a much better approach without changing too much of the game is to make the radar harder to destroy. It's that simple.
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No, what happened was a certain squad abused it, going out of their way to keep dar down not only for hours, but days a couple of times. When something is abused to the point of players logging out in droves and canceling subscriptions, HTC will/must make changes. It was the same with the NOE issues. it was like 90% of all missions were NOE and the defenders were playing "wack-a-mole". They started loggin off and canceling subscriptions and so radar was changed.
The only thing the 49ers abused was the laziness of the "victims" who couldn't be bothered to simply up a plane to see what was going on.
I did it on their first few long missions and immediately found them, bombed them, and eventually joined them since I had been driving myself to down the HQ with random accomplices long before they did.
Their tracers were visible for almost a complete sector yet you have to be there to see that.
If you don't up out of curiosity or to protect strats, you deserve them being downed.
I mean, who wouldn't like dropping 4 bombs and killing 10 tanks in one mission?
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Take Sunday off and plan your new outrage over radar after next week's patch. Look at the new variables which will become important to the phase 2 testing.
August 1
For the next patch I am writing some new radar option flags so configurations can change and I can test some different combinations.
Enemy Vehicles On Radar
Friendly Vehicles On Radar
Show Bombers as Fighters
Also the BelowRadarAlt will remain active even if full radar is enabled.
It can be set to 0 to disable it.
HiTech
August 3
My current thinking is it will change Tuesday with a new test consisting of full radar in tower (with the exception of below radar), and different settings when in flight.
HiTech
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Probably not. HTC making a detailed post in a thread created by them, about testing or changes to the game would be a better idea. Then it wouldnt be neccessary to read through the drool that certain people post on current threads literally all day long. A little clarity would go a long way, without having to read through 1,200 of vracius posts to find answers or relevant information.
I agree with you. on many aspects of this post. I do want to state I have no issues with full world radar (except not really fair to bombers and gvers)
I think a simple explanation as to why the test is going on and what we are to expect from the test would be nice. would also maybe shorten a few threads of long dedicated players all the sudden having the game they have played for many years suddenly changed. I mean I don't want to go to a restaurant and order prime rib only to have the waiter bring chopped steak to the table and turn and leave with no explanation as to why.
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Flying around today was pretty friggen cool. There were a couple of massive base fights going on.
It didn’t matter which ride I was in, there was a fight to be had.
It seems, from my experience, battles are to be had no matter how many people where online.
Besides all you really need is 10 to 15 per side slugging it out via land, sea and air.
Not really sure what the griping is all about. I was glad that 109 stick could see my buffs and even happier that he climbed just to die.
Do you all fly with your knee board open all the time? I look at mine before I launch and periodically enroute if in a bomber and thats it.
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:aok I sort of like this radar..in a fighter/attack style,which is all I do, well and wirbs. Then again, I also like playing DCS and have gotten use to playing with ZERO labels and Icons. Its easier in DCS as the planes you are looking for are distinguishable...axis-allied. In AH...you would know Red from GREEN. For fun though, I did put AH into friendly icon only mode. Made it a bit more fun,for me. Already knew where everyone was, so why not :devil
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Not really sure what the griping is all about. I was glad that 109 stick could see my buffs and even happier that he climbed just to die.
Prior to this test, a GV had a fighting chance to fire and maneuver their way to a town. With full radar and no air cover, that came to a halt.
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Prior to this test, a GV had a fighting chance to fire and maneuver their way to a town. With full radar and no air cover, that came to a halt.
This will change. I am certain of that.
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We get plenty of new players. They leave after five mins. It’s possible they see what looks to be zero action and just leave.
And the old ones leave after 10+ years because they dont want a arcade game. Easy button in play now, thats what everyone wants. Crying I cant find a fight, go to eye doctor.
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And the old ones leave after 10+ years because they dont want a arcade game. Easy button in play now, thats what everyone wants. Crying I cant find a fight, go to eye doctor.
The cynicism displayed by some people here (having no idea what’s going on) is really astounding. SMH.
Yeah, ten-year vets having problems finding action need an eye doctor. Right. "Hey, as long as it doesn't affect me, who cares?"
Frankly, perhaps some old vets need to leave if all they want to do is dump on everyone rather than having some patience. If they’re replaced by new blood they’ll come back, too, with a fresh perspective. Or they won’t and hopefully the game expands any way.
People need a healthy dose of calm-the-heck-down. Let Hitech work on what he is doing. Stay the course. Maybe you'll get some perks for your "inconvenience" or something...
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The cynicism displayed by some people here (having no idea what’s going on) is really astounding. SMH.
Yeah, ten-year vets having problems finding action need an eye doctor. Right. "Hey, as long as it doesn't affect me, who cares?"
Frankly, perhaps some old vets need to leave if all they want to do is dump on everyone rather than having some patience. If they’re replaced by new blood they’ll come back, too, with a fresh perspective. Or they won’t and hopefully the game expands any way.
People need a healthy dose of calm-the-heck-down. Let Hitech work on what he is doing. Stay the course. Maybe you'll get some perks for your "inconvenience" or something...
I think what is motivating this type of observation is that the "can't find a fight" argument isn't literally true (!!!). What it actually means 90% of the time is that the speaker can't find a fight under the conditions of advantage that they prefer. Hence the game isn't as fun for them. Vraciu, you are as guilty of this type of disingenuous-ness as any.
Do I care? Actually yes, but at the same time I don't want to kill the game play elements (including stealth, hide-and-seek-type stuff) which I enjoy. Hence, I always have posted with the goal of trying to find some sort of compromise allowing all play styles to co-exist. Unfortunately many aren't willing to be reasonable, and resort to belittling opposing views by characterizing them as "whining", etc.
MH
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I think what is motivating this type of observation is that the "can't find a fight" argument isn't literally true (!!!). What it actually means 90% of the time is that the speaker can't find a fight under the conditions of advantage that they prefer. Hence the game isn't as fun for them.
Wrong. Circling a base and offering to let people up without vulching and nobody shows up is not "conditions of advantage". And you can always up from a base back and come in higher.
Vraciu, you are as guilty of this type of disingenuous-ness as any.
^^^^^^^^^^ Disingenous-ness (sic) Exhibit A.
I fight smartly. It doesn't matter if the map is full or empty, I approach it the same way. When I am in a P-51 I have to fly it smart or die quickly. There is not much margin for error in that airplane. The empty arenas just mean I have to carry more gas to drone around for an hour to find a fight--and wind up heavier and at a greater *DIS*advantage than I otherwise would.
Do I care? Actually yes, but at the same time I don't want to kill the game play elements (including stealth, hide-and-seek-type stuff) which I enjoy. Hence, I always have posted with the goal of trying to find some sort of compromise allowing all play styles to co-exist. Unfortunately many aren't willing to be reasonable, and resort to belittling opposing views by characterizing them as "whining", etc.
MH
Hmmmm, let's see...
[T]he speaker can't find a fight under the conditions of advantage that they prefer.
Vraciu, you are as guilty of this type of disingenuous-ness as any.
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I logged on again this weekend to see the impact of the change. I had more positive than negative thoughts - but I could see some players hating it.
August 3
My current thinking is it will change Tuesday with a new test consisting of full radar in tower (with the exception of below radar), and different settings when in flight.
HiTech
Does this mean that you will see GVs in Tower but not in Flight?
How about a dynamic radar range tied to the health of your Radar Strats? - Perhaps start out with a 50 mile range and shrink it to even Zero miles when Strats change.
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Vraciu, the point at issue is the meaning of "can't find a fight".
I interpret this literally, meaning that the speaker can't find a fight under any circumstances. You clearly don't. Your last post contains all sorts of implications to this effect, e.g. "I fight smartly" (sic). If all you needed was "a fight", that wouldn't matter. But you want fights which are enjoyable. That is not unreasonable, but to avoid the type of criticism you are complaining about, you need to make it clear as to what you sometimes lack; i.e. not fights per se, but enjoyable fights.
That's why I used the term disingenuous-ness (misspelled), because you are clearly intelligent enough to understand the difference I outline above.
MH
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Vraciu, the point at issue is the meaning of "can't find a fight".
I interpret this literally, meaning that the speaker can't find a fight under any circumstances.
Again, anyone can switch countries and get stuck for four or six hours along with having ENY...
You clearly don't. Your last post contains all sorts of implications to this effect, e.g. "I fight smartly" (sic).
My post was a refutation of your assertion that the only reason I can't find a fight is I am looking for some mythical "conditions (sic) of advantage" fight. Untrue.
If all you needed was "a fight", that wouldn't matter. But you want fights which are enjoyable.
I want any fight at all. ANY. Taking four bases unopposed even after announcing our intentions on 200 is neither enjoyable nor "a fight" of any kind.
That is not unreasonable, but to avoid the type of criticism you are complaining about, you need to make it clear as to what you sometimes lack; i.e. not fights per se, but enjoyable fights.
Do not put words in my mouth, sir.
That's why I used the term disingenuous-ness (misspelled), because you are clearly intelligent enough to understand the difference I outline above.
MH
And you are clearly intelligent enough to stop building strawmen and stick to the very real issues brought up in this thread (and others) that prompted this entire experiment in the first place.
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HT should just make another areana with GVs only no GV dar just flashing bases like the old days when it was fun. The let the guys that just want air combat have the Malee arena with the dar as it is now. Let people have a choice of how they want to play.
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HT should just make another areana with GVs only no GV dar just flashing bases like the old days when it was fun. The let the guys that just want air combat have the Malee arena with the dar as it is now. Let people have a choice of how they want to play.
That's a thought. It's better to create a new arena with the old settings and watch what happens I guess, but then we dilute the population even further... It's a vicious cycle.
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I do not know why they leave. If you (they) are looking for more action, maybe HT could make the maps smaller , you know like a5X5 square grid area. And a universal radar.
A have noticed, the enemy CV groups are not shown or maybe I haven't noticed.
Bring back the old pizza and beer bottle map! ;)
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Vraciu, the point at issue is the meaning of "can't find a fight". I interpret this literally, meaning that the speaker can't find a fight under any circumstances.
Again, anyone can switch countries and get stuck for four or six hours along with having ENY...
One usually doesn’t have to switch countries, but it you just “want a fight”, why not? (Answer is that you want a fight, but under special circumstances). Also note your mention of ENY, which would be irrelevant if you just “wanted a fight”.
You clearly don't. Your last post contains all sorts of implications to this effect, e.g. "I fight smartly" (sic).
My post was a refutation of your assertion that the only reason I can't find a fight is I am looking for some mythical "conditions (sic) of advantage" fight. Untrue.
See above.
If all you needed was "a fight", that wouldn't matter. But you want fights which are enjoyable.
I want any fight at all. ANY. Taking four bases unopposed even after announcing our intentions on 200 is neither enjoyable nor "a fight" of any kind.
See above.
That is not unreasonable, but to avoid the type of criticism you are complaining about, you need to make it clear as to what you sometimes lack; i.e. not fights per se, but enjoyable fights.
Do not put words in my mouth, sir.
My statement to you is advice, not attribution.
That's why I used the term disingenuous-ness (misspelled), because you are clearly intelligent enough to understand the difference I outline above.
And you are clearly intelligent enough to stop building strawmen and stick to the very real issues brought up in this thread (and others) that prompted this entire experiment in the first place.
The issue of whether or not it is difficult to “find fights”, as claimed by a vocal minority of Forum posters, is central to this thread. My recent posts directly address this questionable claim, and are therefore directly relevant. I sure hope that HiTech is proceeding based on his own data, rather than complaints by this vocal minority.
Finally I see no “strawmen” here; please clarify.
MH
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HT should just make another areana with GVs only no GV dar just flashing bases like the old days when it was fun. The let the guys that just want air combat have the Malee arena with the dar as it is now. Let people have a choice of how they want to play.
I've suggested this before, but got flamed. I admit it risks thinning out the MA more though, but even a 2-versus-2 GV fight is fun if you can avoid being bombed while doing it (and before the "GV dar" changes). So it could work. My theory is that HTC would gain more players than they would lose, but that's easy for me to say.
MH
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One usually doesn’t have to switch countries, but it you just “want a fight”, why not? (Answer is that you want a fight, but under special circumstances). Also note your mention of ENY, which would be irrelevant if you just “wanted a fight”.
This is my last reply to you on this topic. You appear to have no interest in learning the dynamics of the game as it stands today.
STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. It's getting stale.
I am not going to switch countries to find a fight. I tried that. Even paid for a second account to do it. It doesn't work. You wind up ENY'd and then once again on the short end of the stick with an occasional fight all the way across the map and no ability to switch to it, or chasing the same ghosts only under a different country's chess piece. If I want to be stuck in garbage rides or by myself with nothing to do--or both--I will go to the WWI arena or offline.
"Only 30 players in the game." Do the math.
Hitech appears to be trying to address this issue. I'm glad. And it is working. I've found more fights over the last four days I've been on than in weeks.
See above.
See above.
My statement to you is advice, not attribution.
The issue of whether or not it is difficult to “find fights”, as claimed by a vocal minority of Forum posters, is central to this thread. My recent posts directly address this questionable claim, and are therefore directly relevant. I sure hope that HiTech is proceeding based on his own data, rather than complaints by this vocal minority.
Advice from someone who hasn't been here for nine months?
See above.
Finally I see no “strawmen” here; please clarify.
MH
See above.
/Discussion
I'm done here. Get back to me after you've been back for awhile. Perhaps then we will be speaking the same lingo.
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I think what is motivating this type of observation is that the "can't find a fight" argument isn't literally true (!!!).
No, it is often literally true. "I can't find a fight" = the only enemies I see anywhere on the board are circling around at 30k waiting to jump on whoever tries to climb to them, and if they don't get a kill on the first pass, or if they see anyone less than 5k below them, they will dive out and run to ack or a gaggle of other friendlies, who are also circling around at 30k looking for picks. That is not a fight.
The new setting have only made this worse, though. I don't think I've ever seen half as many people above 25k even with the old numbers. And they don't want to fight even up there, they want to be immune to any chance of engagement and will run away as soon as anything threatens that.
As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.
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This is my last reply to you on this topic. You appear to have no interest in learning the dynamics of the game as it stands today.
STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. It's getting stale.
I am not going to switch countries to find a fight. I tried that. Even paid for a second account to do it. It doesn't work. You wind up ENY'd and then once again on the short end of the stick with an occasional fight all the way across the map and no ability to switch to it, or chasing the same ghosts only under a different country's chess piece. If I want to be stuck in garbage rides or by myself with nothing to do--or both--I will go to the WWI arena or offline.
"Only 30 players in the game." Do the math.
Hitech appears to be trying to address this issue. I'm glad. And it is working. I've found more fights over the last four days I've been on than in weeks.
Advice from someone who hasn't been here for nine months?
See above.
See above.
/Discussion
I'm done here. Get back to me after you've been back for awhile. Perhaps then we will be speaking the same lingo.
Always interested in "learning". Less interested in disingenuous, sleazy debate techniques, however. (Putting words in your mouth ???).
WRT "learning", maybe I will learn something here. As I suggested earlier, I have never had difficulty finding fights, including in off-hours; just in finding acceptably enjoyable fights. Hence I don't claim I "can't find fights". Are you telling me that there is a personal ENY penalty associated with changing sides? Meaning distinct from the ENY differences consequent on country numbers. Since I rarely change sides, I haven't noticed such a personal ENY penalty (i.e. applying just to the player doing the changing). Enlighten me please. Or not.
MH
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No, it is often literally true. "I can't find a fight" = the only enemies I see anywhere on the board are circling around at 30k waiting to jump on whoever tries to climb to them, and if they don't get a kill on the first pass, or if they see anyone less than 5k below them, they will dive out and run to ack or a gaggle of other friendlies, who are also circling around at 30k looking for picks. That is not a fight.
The new setting have only made this worse, though. I don't think I've ever seen half as many people above 25k even with the old numbers. And they don't want to fight even up there, they want to be immune to any chance of engagement and will run away as soon as anything threatens that.
As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.
I see a semantic issue here. To me, what you describe is a fight, just not an enjoyable one. I realize it's difficult to wade through all the crap which has been going back and forth between Vraciu and me, but I did in one post mention this semantic issue.
Point is, I'm not saying your concerns are not important. I'm just saying that IMHO we need to distinguish between not being able to find a fight AT ALL / UNDER ANY CONDITIONS, and finding one which occurs in an enjoyable context. Reason is, the solutions to the 2 problems, as implemented by HTC would likely be different. So we need to communicate clearly as to what we are hoping for.
MH
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(text removed)
As for a GV arena, we don't have enough players to support one arena, let alone two.
We may or may not have them now, but my perception is that we have been losing GV players in the last several years. It was pretty good back when we had Trinity, for example. We may also have lost more of the remnants since the GV dar was added (though I haven't been playing since that was added in, so that's just my guess).
Anyway if my overall perception is correct, a separate arena would have retained them, solving that issue. Maybe even might lure some back. For example, I have a friend who had a trial sub once, and with whom I played in the "free" mini-arenas from several years ago (forgot the correct term for them). He was into tanks, but didn't want to be bombed constantly, and wasn't that into planes. So he didn't renew. Since he wasn't into planes, a GV-only arena wouldn't have removed him from the MA, but it would have added his $15-per-month to the pot.
MH
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"Only 30 players in the game."
And here lies the problem. Those 30 players in the game isn't 30 players in the game 24/7. Those 30 players in the game is only during certain times of the day. To get it up to 30 players per side numbers would need to tripple, and that would imply a pretty well-populated arena at prime-time.
The world's population is distributed around the globe. North america is only 8.3% (*) of all internet users. Even neglecting China hidden behind the great firewall, there's a lot of untapped potential outside of the current target market. With potential players that could fill the server at times at which it is deserted today.
(*)https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm (https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm)
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None of these issues would exists if the numbers were still 600 on a weekend prime time. HTC has determined it's the fault of the radar, and will adjust it and tell themselves , yes that's the problem and we addressed it. There was a company once , we'll call it Big Tobacco, losing customer base, shrinking sales, in a poor economy . Even though they were selling a product that if you used it , will kill you, they increased sales, market share and customer base world wide, by cutting prices of the base product by more than half. They charge different prices for the same product in different parts of the world. US 8 to 10 dollars a pack, China 50 cents a pack, they get what the market will bare. Perhaps in the world of online gaming , the market will no longer support $15.00 per month. I wonder how the game would sell if you could buy up front a full year subscription at a discount? perhaps a two for one sale, by two months, pay just for one. I think HTC is chasing it’s tail. The problem is not with the radar, I don’t remember people screaming for better graphics, So no improvements to AH2 for almost two years while we waited for AH3 and that drove away a lot of the player base. It’s not the radar, it’s not the GV play, it’s not the aircraft Play, it’s the number of players and that translates to price to play and in todays world $14.99 is just to much. HTC needs more players and the only way to get more players is cut your prices, enough to attract a new player base that will support game play.
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I see a semantic issue here. To me, what you describe is a fight, just not an enjoyable one. I realize it's difficult to wade through all the crap which has been going back and forth between Vraciu and me, but I did in one post mention this semantic issue.
Point is, I'm not saying your concerns are not important. I'm just saying that IMHO we need to distinguish between not being able to find a fight AT ALL / UNDER ANY CONDITIONS, and finding one which occurs in an enjoyable context. Reason is, the solutions to the 2 problems, as implemented by HTC would likely be different. So we need to communicate clearly as to what we are hoping for.
While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.
If they were willing to press home the attack, even with the huge E advantage I'd call that a fight. but lately it seems like too many guys can't even be bothered to do that. This is particularly true late at night when it seems all anyone wants to do is pork strats and sneak bases. Usually in prime time I can find some kind of fight. base takes usually generate a good one, even if it is at a disadvantage.
One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.
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While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.
If they were willing to press home the attack, even with the huge E advantage I'd call that a fight. but lately it seems like too many guys can't even be bothered to do that. This is particularly true late at night when it seems all anyone wants to do is pork strats and sneak bases. Usually in prime time I can find some kind of fight. base takes usually generate a good one, even if it is at a disadvantage.
One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.
He misses the point. There are times where you literally CANNOT FIND A FIGHT ANYWHERE. You fly all over the map chasing dar bars. I've seen it enough to know it is not an aberration.
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Would someone please post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. Thank you.
You mean "if"?
Dragdad
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It’s not the radar, it’s not the GV play, it’s not the aircraft Play, it’s the number of players and that translates to price to play and in todays world $14.99 is just to much. HTC needs more players and the only way to get more players is cut your prices, enough to attract a new player base that will support game play.
Or maybe the opposite. Many of us are probably addicted enough to stay at 50$/month. Even with 50% players lost that would still be a gain. Those who would be too addicated to leave and still want to play would end up in the h2h-rooms. Populated h2h-rooms are the foundation to create new addicts.
The only problem with this would be the lowly populated main arena.
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I'm back after a couple of years, and I like the full radar overall, except for the bombers. From what I've seen in the past week, there is pretty much no point in upping a bomber right now.
Hopefully, HiTech will either make their icon the same size as fighters, or not show an icon for bombers at all.
But the full radar on fighters let's you find a "right sized" fight from a distance. If you are flying alone or with just one wingman, you can avoid being jumped by a squad of 5 or 6 guys, but instead find a knife fight against a couple of red guys that will often be much more fun (unless you're a super ninja pilot who can take on 5 or 6 guys).
Most newbs don't have a squad to associate with, and are pretty much on their own, and full radar gives them a chance to avoid odds where they are hopelessly outnumbered.
So after thinking about it for the past week (and hating it at first), I like full radar for fighters due to the "right sized" fights you can find (or you can dive into a furball if you prefer). :aok
Just the opinion of one new "old" customer :cheers:
P.S. I brought a young relative in as a new Aces High player this time (he's still a teenager), and so far he's having fun (other than flying bombers). And I've been taking him to "right sized" fights, so he's been practicing more than just taking off, as I've been able to keep things pretty much stirred up for more than two turns against a couple of red guys if he stays close ;)
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i absolutely love new dar!
to address alt monkey whines: to counter to alt monkeys is low level b17s/b26s. using this tactic forces them to come down or have their base taken down.
Its also rewarding to bring space cadets out of orbit so friendlies can jump them.
Fighter trolling is extremely fun (just ask my squady 999s).
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As per JimmyD3's request...someone post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. In the mean time I'll be flying Sturmovik, at least they are not trying to create an arcade game.
Anchor sends
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Anchor sends
Cannot read you, Special Base. Still garbled.
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I don't think I've been online 2 hours since Full dar was implemented. Just waiting for the test to be over.
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I don't think I've been online 2 hours since Full dar was implemented. Just waiting for the test to be over.
HT's tentative part 2 for the dar test will be absolutely no improvement on part 1. As I understand it, all-seeing dar will be active to a player when he is in tower but not when he ups something. Someone surely will just stay in tower and guide squaddies and teammates to enemy players, so I am hoping either I misunderstood his intent or that he thinks better of it.
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While I see your point, I just don't think you can call shooting fish in a barrel a fight - for the fish or the shooter.
One good thing the full dar has done is shown what's been happening all along - bombers are coming in, probably at 25-30k, and the second they see an enemy fighter icon appear they turn around and go somewhere else. That also isn't a fight.
Respectfully disagree.
With the all-seeing dar, buff hunters are (wisely) grabbing lots of alt and fuel and just waiting for buffs to show their icons as they take off from a base. And buff pilots know this. When a fast fighter icon makes a beeline for their position from multiple sectors away, they know what they'll face if they continue their climb-out: a fighter with tons of E and whatever alt it wants, bearing in for the kill. No wonder they run away. Or bail. Or don't even bother to up in the first place.
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Respectfully disagree.
With the all-seeing dar, buff hunters are (wisely) grabbing lots of alt and fuel and just waiting for buffs to show their icons as they take off from a base. And buff pilots know this. When a fast fighter icon makes a beeline for their position from multiple sectors away, they know what they'll face if they continue their climb-out: a fighter with tons of E and whatever alt it wants, bearing in for the kill. No wonder they run away. Or bail. Or don't even bother to up in the first place.
Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.
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Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.
I tanked for 20 minutes Saturday and it sucked.
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Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side. Here is why:
- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game. GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where. You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be. If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's). It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way. Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all. I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way. That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway. The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance. This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes. Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves. In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are.
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth). At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it. Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst. You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at. This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs. I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff. I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive. It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't.
- Slow fighters have a problem as well. Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land. You will never make it. Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo. Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters. It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that).
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun. Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base. The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.
To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers. Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions. Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone. I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air. And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now. I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it. I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true). I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.
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Those afraid to fight and looking for "easy" kills are those that are going to climb to pick. With full dar, or with out full dar your going to have those that are afraid to fight and spend their time climbing to pick. Personally I flew for 4 hours saturday and never made it over 12k and had a blast.
Same here. Been racking up lots of kills and finding good fights that leave me smiling even when I lose. Finally get to practice some things and work on mistakes right away.
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This Full Dar thing keeps causing the DCS download server to crash from all the people installing their game. :headscratch:
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Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side. Here is why:
- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game. GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where. You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be. If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's). It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way. Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all. I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way. That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway. The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance. This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes. Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves. In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are.
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth). At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it. Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst. You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at. This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs. I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff. I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive. It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't.
- Slow fighters have a problem as well. Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land. You will never make it. Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo. Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters. It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that).
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun. Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base. The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.
To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers. Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions. Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone. I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air. And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now. I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it. I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true). I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.
Well said. I'm sticking around only long enough to see what the end result of the dar experiment will be. If phase 2 is as I expect it to be I'll check when I'd have to pay my next $15 and maybe pull the trigger before then, we'll see. But I expect this experiment to be unhappy-for-me and am already resigning myself to a life without Aces High.
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The sky is falling!!!!! :banana: :eek: :x :bolt:
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I was able to log on for half an hour or so tonight. From that limited experience, I find I enjoyed the new DAR. Had no trouble finding where enemy fighters were located, and this resulted in comparatively quick and even-sided fights.
I can see why the strategerists and truck drivers do not enjoy it, however. But I find that I don't interact much with those activities, so from my narrow perspective this is very fine.
- oldman
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Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side. Here is why:
- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game. GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where. You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be. If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's). It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way. Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all. I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way. That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway. The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance. This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes. Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves. In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are.
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth). At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it. Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst. You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at. This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs. I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff. I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive. It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't.
- Slow fighters have a problem as well. Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land. You will never make it. Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo. Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters. It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that).
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun. Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base. The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.
To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers. Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions. Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone. I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air. And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now. I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it. I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true). I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.
Nice summary. I agree with most of this.
I was able to log on for half an hour or so tonight. From that limited experience, I find I enjoyed the new DAR. Had no trouble finding where enemy fighters were located, and this resulted in comparatively quick and even-sided fights.
It seems it works for many-on-many in-visual-range furballs. Unfortunately, that comes with the side effects mentioned by DurrD above.
The sky is falling!!!!! :banana: :eek: :x :bolt:
LOL; now that you've run out of logical (?) arguments, you are resorting to blanket denials and emoticons ...
MH
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LOL; now that you've run out of logical (?) arguments...
Oh the irony...
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Count me as another vote on the "HATES THE NEW DAR SETUP" side. Here is why:
- It has destroyed what to me was the fun of the GV game. GV'ing is about stealth, hiding, laying an ambush, a tense slow-burn game of hide-and-seek where you know somebody is out there, but are not sure exactly where. You inch forwards from covered position to covered position, scanning each time you stop every possible place they could be. If I could only do one thing in AH it would be to fly fighters, but I love AH because we get to do it all (fighters/bombers/gv's). It took me precisely one sortie the first time I logged in on new system to determine that gv'ing is not fun this way. Before anybody says it was because I died or something like that, not at all. I made 2 kills with my Firefly, then towered out to avoid a wave of enemy air that was heading our way. That brings up the 2nd problem:
- I wouldn't like it even if only other gv's could see your exact position, but since airplanes can also, then it completely ends gv play for me anyway. The sector dar makes it hard enough to avoid planes that even before seemed to always zero right in on your tank even when you are well hidden in the trees; but at least you had something of a fighting chance. This new system makes it so that tanks are absolute sitting ducks against attack planes. Even bombers up at mid levels using the bombsight can target you with some effectiveness using bigger bombs without even ever getting in icon range, and with zero risk to themselves. In fact, today ships were even targetting gv's with high effectiveness since they can see exactly where they are.
- Vulnerable vehicles carrying troops (M3/LVT/etc) have zero chance of using the only real defense they have available to them (stealth). At one of our bases that was under attack today, every time an enemy LVT spawned, we easily found it. Contrast that to last month where on 2 separate occasions probably half a dozen of us searched for 15-20 minutes for a hiding LVT that had made it ashore.
- Bombers have it the worst. You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at. This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs. I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff. I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive. It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't.
- Slow fighters have a problem as well. Lets say you get a bunch of kills and are headed back home to land. You will never make it. Before you could ease out of the fight in a direction not in line with your base, curve around and sneak back home to land when low on fuel/ammo. Now its impossible unless you are in one of the faster fighters. It seemed to me that there was a distinct increase in P-51's, LA-7s, and Doras compared to usual (not that those planes arent always popular, but there were a lot less Zeroes/Spits/Yak3s/N1K's in evidence along with that).
- Tactical deceptions are nearly impossible now, and that is a shame because it was a lot of fun. Such as you get several squaddies to launch towards one base, get it flashing, but your real strike force is proceeding NOE to a different base. The NOE part still works, but the instant you pop, instead of just having 2 bases flashing both with dar bar, they can see instantly which is the real effort.
To sum it up, this change only favors fast fighters and people that like to target bombers and gv's to the massive detriment of gvs and bombers. Fair enough, I spent the rest of my short time available today flying fighters and attack missions. Even there though, although it certainly made life easier, as I easily intercepted several formations of bombers on takeoff, and bombed a number of gv's that I easily found; the challenge of finding them was gone. I have always enjoyed the hide and seek factor of trying to find vehicles whether I was in one myself or looking for them from the air. And the art of trying to interpret what darbar is telling you is completely unnecessary now. I'm not one to complain much about the game, as I have played it off and on for a very long time (nearly 18 years I think) and always loved it. I'm not one of those that is always threatening to quit and such (you can look at my history of posts both as FBDurr and Durr before I was a Freebird and see that to be true). I know this test is ending soon, and that was my only consolation because I do not think I will play again until I hear that it has changed.
Nailed it!
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This Full Dar thing keeps causing the DCS download server to crash from all the people installing their game. :headscratch:
Was not thinking of that...explains why my NEW Super Bad F-18 Hornet module was taking some much longer to DL. Here I was blaming on Netflix :uhoh Sure, could have canceled the DL and just flown my Spit 9, Pony or even 109k and Dora....but I didnt :headscratch:
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In conclusion I personally think the full dar is a step in the right direction - but overshot the goal a bit.
* strategic gameplay suffers. Achieving your strategic objective often requires stealth and NOT fighting the enemy is part of the mission requirement.
* action gameplay benefits. It is easy to find someone to "fight", or even better, to kill without much risk to yourself (a bomber, GV, etc.).
We have players that enjoy either or even both of these gameplay styles.
What do we want? A very historically realistic simulation? An action game? What is economically viable? What ratio of gameplay style will yield the most subscribers? What is the type of game that HiTech wants to make?
I think FULL DAR is a bit over the top. Change the icons (showing fighters/bombers/GV´s) to a simple " big blob" once inside radar range, make killing radar very hard if not impossible, shorten downtimes. Make every plane or GV that is "in icon range" for someone instantly visible on the map for everyone else (emulating a radio call by the spotter).
Litjan
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- Bombers have it the worst. You can instantly see them upping, and usually guess their target and approximately what altitude they will be at. This deprives them of the chance to get some alt and speed to make their target runs. I only tried one bomber sortie as well, and was shocked how many fighter instantly upped, clearly in reaction to my takeoff. I sank a ship and lit 2 others, shot down 2 enemy fighters and got a proxy, and made it home safely, but only due to the sheer speed of the TU-2 in a slight dive. It seems to me the likely result of this is that no one will ever fly the slower bombers, I know I won't.
I guess everyone's mileage may vary. A single bomber, I would agree... however, our squadron is primarily bomber pilots and we had an absolute ball on Sunday night. I'm guessing we had about eight formations of B17s with approximately equal escort to hit the Knit flak factory. In briefing, I told everyone, they are going to come at us the entire trip so keep the formation tight and the escort informed of where the enemy was approaching (yes... the full dar actually hampered our attackers as well). Our escorts, Who7 and the Ghost Riders did a great job vectoring to the threats and keeping the number of passes to a minimum. It was great as even GldnBB flew all the way from Bishland to take a crack at the formation, only to produce a spectacular fireball mid formation :D Several 262s worked us over among other bomber killers, but... we take that as a challenge.
Did we climb to 32k?... nope, that's for the singles IMHO. 20K was fine, as it promoted lots of fighting, we hit target, and everyone landed minus the one formation who went AFK on the way home. Knit resupply convoy worked well and flak factory was repaired just before we landed. No muss, no fuss.
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I guess everyone's mileage may vary. A single bomber, I would agree... however, our squadron is primarily bomber pilots and we had an absolute ball on Sunday night. I'm guessing we had about eight formations of B17s with approximately equal escort to hit the Knit flak factory. In briefing, I told everyone, they are going to come at us the entire trip so keep the formation tight and the escort informed of where the enemy was approaching (yes... the full dar actually hampered our attackers as well). Our escorts, Who7 and the Ghost Riders did a great job vectoring to the threats and keeping the number of passes to a minimum. It was great as even GldnBB flew all the way from Bishland to take a crack at the formation, only to produce a spectacular fireball mid formation :D Several 262s worked us over among other bomber killers, but... we take that as a challenge.
Did we climb to 32k?... nope, that's for the singles IMHO. 20K was fine, as it promoted lots of fighting, we hit target, and everyone landed minus the one formation who went AFK on the way home. Knit resupply convoy worked well and flak factory was repaired just before we landed. No muss, no fuss.
I was one of the interceptors, it was quite a bit of fun to see some people actually apply stragedy that involves the possibility of enemy action, instead of applying the "If I just climb HIGHER it will work!" singleton school of thought.
The two things that made me sad were not seeing the mission sooner, and knowing the damage would be undone by the resupply convoy, but that's a moot point.
Good job on the mission though. Missions are not dead. Unescorted missions are, and IMO that's not a bad thing.
Wiley.
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Missions are not dead. Unescorted missions are, and IMO that's not a bad thing.
:salute sir... we will look for you Sunday night.
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I was one of the interceptors, it was quite a bit of fun to see some people actually apply stragedy that involves the possibility of enemy action, instead of applying the "If I just climb HIGHER it will work!" singleton school of thought.
The two things that made me sad were not seeing the mission sooner, and knowing the damage would be undone by the resupply convoy, but that's a moot point.
Good job on the mission though. Missions are not dead. Unescorted missions are, and IMO that's not a bad thing.
Wiley.
Damn it, Wiley, stop saying so much I agree with.
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Damn it, Wiley, stop saying so much I agree with.
Don't worry. Eventually one of us will say something that hits the other wrong and we'll be back at daggers drawn. ;)
Wiley.
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Don't worry. Eventually one of us will say something that hits the other wrong and we'll be back at daggers drawn. ;)
Wiley.
Excellent!!!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :aok :cheers: :salute
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No more darbar :x
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In briefing, I told everyone, they are going to come at us the entire trip so keep the formation tight and the escort informed of where the enemy was approaching
How odd. That sounds so much like an 8th AF mission in WWII. What in the world is this game coming to?
Good on you and your consorts, Alpo, I'll bet that was fun.
- oldman
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How odd. That sounds so much like an 8th AF mission in WWII. What in the world is this game coming to?
Good on you and your consorts, Alpo, I'll bet that was fun.
- oldman
:rofl :aok
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How odd. That sounds so much like an 8th AF mission in WWII. What in the world is this game coming to?
Good on you and your consorts, Alpo, I'll bet that was fun.
- oldman
Heh... for not being "real" with full dar, it was probably some of the best fighting we've had in a few weeks :aok
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This is what happens when you hire Mark Vange as your future ops guy. He'll kill this game too.
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Odd, the strat was supplied by the time you landed? Maybe just in my opinion?
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Odd, the strat was supplied by the time you landed? Maybe just in my opinion?
:aok
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Odd, the strat was supplied by the time you landed? Maybe just in my opinion?
Yep... that is pretty standard for a long buff run as resupply works miracles, we've come to accept it. M3s were already sitting outside of the factory waiting when we got there. If they enjoyed themselves, I'm fine with that as we had a blast. :aok
Factory was 100% when we arrived, 13% when we left, 100% when we landed.
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M3s were already sitting outside of the factory waiting when we got there.
It's pathetic, really. On so many levels.
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It's pathetic, really. On so many levels.
Lol thank you.
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It's pathetic, really. On so many levels.
Seems to me that the counter-strategy worked. Yay gaming.
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Seems to me that the counter-strategy worked. Yay gaming.
Oh, it absolutely works. It is just kind of sad that the game is configured in such a way that when a strat is being attacked, Plan A is not to defend it but rather to resupply it because that is more effective. Why prevent damage when you can repair it faster? The most effective thing for people to do in defense is resupply, not defend the target.
I used to joke about the game having a Radar Operator position where you sit and stare at the radar screen and vector people to enemy contacts, and now by the sound of it that's about to become a reality.
I wonder if they're moving toward my idea to make this like minecraft where you need to mine the materials for your plane and build it before you can fly it. Or maybe have "cook" and "mechanic" positions. Click the pot to boil meat to feed the ground crew, or they die of starvation and you have no rearm or new planes from that base. Right click on the nut to turn clockwise.
Hooray for menial repetitive tasks in gaming.
Wiley.
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Oh, it absolutely works. It is just kind of sad that the game is configured in such a way that when a strat is being attacked, Plan A is not to defend it but rather to resupply it because that is more effective. Why prevent damage when you can repair it faster? The most effective thing for people to do in defense is resupply, not defend the target.
I used to joke about the game having a Radar Operator position where you sit and stare at the radar screen and vector people to enemy contacts, and now by the sound of it that's about to become a reality.
I wonder if they're moving toward my idea to make this like minecraft where you need to mine the materials for your plane and build it before you can fly it. Or maybe have "cook" and "mechanic" positions. Click the pot to boil meat to feed the ground crew, or they die of starvation and you have no rearm or new planes from that base. Right click on the nut to turn clockwise.
Hooray for menial repetitive tasks in gaming.
Wiley.
The following guiding principles have served me well:
If my goal is to bomb stuff, then I bomb stuff.
If my goal is to bomb stuff and draw a fight in the air, then I bomb an air field along a front.
If my goal is to bomb stuff strategically and not have it resupped, then I (or one of my homies) will take out supply ability in the area first.
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Seems to me that the counter-strategy worked. Yay gaming.
Is it a counter strategy though? It certainly is not countering an enemy force with another force (combat).
It really is a negation strategy. It merely undid the damage done.
Thankfully, there were at least some players who took to the sky to actually counter Alpo's bomber mission with their own fighters. Kudos to them and kudos to Alpo for embarking on the mission.
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Is it a counter strategy though? It certainly is not countering an enemy force with another force (combat).
It really is a negation strategy. It merely undid the damage done.
Thankfully, there were at least some players who took to the sky to actually counter Alpo's bomber mission with their own fighters. Kudos to them and kudos to Alpo for embarking on the mission.
It's gaming theory. Because, like, this is a game. The "resupply" row or column in the matrix is dominating the "bomb the stuffing out of this place" row or column. Hinder the dominance of the "resupply" row or column with proper strategy, and you can eliminate its entire row or column from the matrix so that it does not dominate.
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It's gaming theory. Because, like, this is a game. The "resupply" row or column in the matrix is dominating the "bomb the stuffing out of this place" row or column. Hinder the dominance of the "resupply" row or column with proper strategy, and you can eliminate its entire row or column from the matrix so that it does not dominate.
Yup.. and once upon a time it wasnt an option. Numbers and fights going strong all day long.
Today.. fights. Sometimes.. numbers, not so much.
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Strats are laid out by the player terrain builder. There are no rules against placing GV spawns to strats. There is guidance on where to put strats, nothing fixed in concrete. If you guys don't like how the current round of MA terrains have been configured by their creators, build terrains that in your superior opinions are better.
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Strats are laid out by the player terrain builder. There are no rules against placing GV spawns to strats. There is guidance on where to put strats, nothing fixed in concrete. If you guys don't like how the current round of MA terrains have been configured by their creators, build terrains that in your superior opinions are better.
Im not entirely happy with some of the things going on here in the good ole USA either.. should i prepare a run for president before i share my opinion?
Let yourself out of the basement for a few hours.. lol.
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Your opinions "assume" wanting Hitech to impose something on terrain builders instead of saying you wish Hitech would "impose what you want on terrain builders". Who elected you president of AH?
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Your opinions "assume" wanting Hitech to impose something on terrain builders instead of saying you wish Hitech would "impose what you want on terrain builders". Who elected you president of AH?
Nevermind, not worth the time it takes to type the proper response.
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Is it a counter strategy though? It certainly is not countering an enemy force with another force (combat).
It really is a negation strategy. It merely undid the damage done.
Thankfully, there were at least some players who took to the sky to actually counter Alpo's bomber mission with their own fighters. Kudos to them and kudos to Alpo for embarking on the mission.
If you know an attack is going to take place at a specific location, prepping for the defense and the repair of the objective is a counter strategy.
Not all counter strategies rely on brute force.
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If you know an attack is going to take place at a specific location, prepping for the defense and the repair of the objective is a counter strategy.
Not all counter strategies rely on brute force.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well in a combat game you would think COMBAT would be the first thought, and resupply only after the damage is done and the treat removed. In the case mentioned, they were sitting there WAITING in M3s to resupply watching the dar of the attack coming in. Lame game play.
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Might be lame but it is what it is.
Next time send an NOE strike group to knock out those GV’s.
A couple of B-25’s or 410’s should do the trick.
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Well in a combat game you would think COMBAT would be the first thought.
Actually, my first thought when entering the game is "where are we at with this war." Then the first thing I do is ask my squad or my country if they need anything.
When I want instant shoot-em-up, I play Asteroids on my cell phone.
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The only tactics available now is to just up fighters only and forget about bombers as an asset. The old radar settings were fine. The problem was how far the 50 Cal guns are lowered.
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Actually, my first thought when entering the game is "where are we at with this war." Then the first thing I do is ask my squad or my country if they need anything.
When I want instant shoot-em-up, I play Asteroids on my cell phone.
I was replying to the discussion "Ciaphas" and "Devil" were having on the lamness of jumping into M3s to resupply the strats "Alpo's" group had bombed instead of trying to intercept and ATTACK the mission.
The only tactics available now is to just up fighters only and forget about bombers as an asset. The old radar settings were fine. The problem was how far the 50 Cal guns are lowered.
Either your wrong, or lazy, which is it? "Alpo" seem to do well with his mission.
I guess everyone's mileage may vary. A single bomber, I would agree... however, our squadron is primarily bomber pilots and we had an absolute ball on Sunday night. I'm guessing we had about eight formations of B17s with approximately equal escort to hit the Knit flak factory. In briefing, I told everyone, they are going to come at us the entire trip so keep the formation tight and the escort informed of where the enemy was approaching (yes... the full dar actually hampered our attackers as well). Our escorts, Who7 and the Ghost Riders did a great job vectoring to the threats and keeping the number of passes to a minimum. It was great as even GldnBB flew all the way from Bishland to take a crack at the formation, only to produce a spectacular fireball mid formation :D Several 262s worked us over among other bomber killers, but... we take that as a challenge.
Did we climb to 32k?... nope, that's for the singles IMHO. 20K was fine, as it promoted lots of fighting, we hit target, and everyone landed minus the one formation who went AFK on the way home. Knit resupply convoy worked well and flak factory was repaired just before we landed. No muss, no fuss.
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I think the new set up just forces us to approach targets differently.
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I think the new set up just forces us to approach targets differently.
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It does, and that is a good thing. It forces players to come up with new ways to get things done. It's kinda funny seeing those that are "calling it quits if this is how its going to be!" are those that always seem to want to avoid any contact with the enemy. Those that are up for the challenge like Alpo and his gang are the players we need to keep. Those that want to "play" the game. For those that want to quit, why they havent done so long ago and created their own little custom world to run maps on is a real mystery to me.
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It's pathetic, really. On so many levels.
If that is true, you don't understand the game play. :rolleyes:
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If that is true, you don't understand the game play. :rolleyes:
I understand game play, and I think its sad that players would jump into M3s and run to a strat to await the incoming attack instead of jumping in a plane to fight off the attack. You dont want your strat bombed DEFEND IT!
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I understand game play, and I think its sad that players would jump into M3s and run to a strat to await the incoming attack instead of jumping in a plane to fight off the attack. You dont want your strat bombed DEFEND IT!
I would prefer to jump in a plane and fight off the attack, however that may require my climbing to 30k within 2 sectors and possibly shoot down 1 or 2 aircraft or on rare occasions 3. But that also is assuming only 1 set of bombers incoming and that I see them coming in time, otherwise they drop their bombs destroy the strat, shoot me down during their retreat, and I still have to run M3's to get the strat back up. :bolt:
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I would prefer to jump in a plane and fight off the attack, however that may require my climbing to 30k within 2 sectors and possibly shoot down 1 or 2 aircraft or on rare occasions 3. But that also is assuming only 1 set of bombers incoming and that I see them coming in time, otherwise they drop their bombs destroy the strat, shoot me down during their retreat, and I still have to run M3's to get the strat back up. :bolt:
Temps and 262s are your friend against big hordes! :old:
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If that is true, you don't understand the game play. :rolleyes:
Oh I understand the game play. Too many players are dedicated to avoiding the enemy. It's even worse when a game mechanic(resupply) enables that behavior.
Like I said, many levels of pathetic.
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Lets not forget that enjoyment comes from the feeling of accomplishment. Helping the "war effort" is an accomplishment like that one - and I for example also enjoy driving an M3 to resupply a field or town, just because "it helps".
There are many players who don´t have the skill, reflexes or hardware to fly fighters at 30k and succesfully engage bombers, but they feel like doing a contribution by resupplying the damaged targets. I agree that this does not create "action" - but the alternative of them quitting because we take that mechanic away does not create "action" either.
Jan
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I understand game play, and I think its sad that players would jump into M3s and run to a strat to await the incoming attack instead of jumping in a plane to fight off the attack. You dont want your strat bombed DEFEND IT!
With most bombers flying around at 30k these days it's no use trying to intercept them. If you want to start a fight with your bombers, FLY AT UNDER 20K.
Of course, HTC could force more fights by making bombing accuracy from 30k historically accurate - that is, with an average error measurable in miles. We could keep the current laser guided bombs for altitudes below where wind starts in the game, i.e., 14k. At 14k you're a lot more likely to have to fight on your way to and from the target.
I've had no trouble at all getting a response flying around at 5k or less in B-17s. People love to attack bombers. They just hate to spend 10 minutes or more climbing to chase buffs they'll probably never catch anyway.
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Just my two cents on this subject. First off I am loosing a few squad members due to this full Dar BS. Secondly if this is going to be a WW2 game radar should appropiate in the sense. As in they couldnt see all the way to Germany with radar. So go back to the old style radar. Just track the Dar Bar and go from there. Again just my two cents..
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Just my two cents on this subject. First off I am loosing a few squad members due to this full Dar BS. Secondly if this is going to be a WW2 game radar should appropiate in the sense. As in they couldnt see all the way to Germany with radar. So go back to the old style radar. Just track the Dar Bar and go from there. Again just my two cents..
This. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Just my two cents on this subject. First off I am loosing a few squad members due to this full Dar BS. Secondly if this is going to be a WW2 game radar should appropiate in the sense. As in they couldnt see all the way to Germany with radar. So go back to the old style radar. Just track the Dar Bar and go from there. Again just my two cents..
Sad that folks fail to understand testing.
Folks like that should never make requests as they do not like change, they do not even like testing.
HiTech was right when he said people have no idea what they want.
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This. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But it is broke! We lose new players in the first 10-15 minutes they are in the game. One of the reasons is the map looks dead. With the dar bar only as well as as few icons here or there where radar is up that is all the action you see. Now with the new dar you see a 100 guys playing all over! Even if 100 players is a low number it still LOOKS like there is some action.
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wow!!! totally amazing!!! "I don't like the way it was before, but I don't like the way it is now!!" WTF!!
how about go with the flow and learn to excel? or use it to you advantage? come folks, enjoy the fights, start fights, make it fun!!!!
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how about go with the flow and learn to excel?
While spreadsheets and AH can be a lot of fun, they don't help you much in Melee Arena combat :old:
:bolt:
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I like the new dar just fine. I liked the old dar too. I like the game. I will adapt to all changes. Keep 'em coming, HiTech!
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Have not see you in the MA playing in this nonsense Shuffler. Maybe if yo were playing you would have a different attitude.
Sad that folks fail to understand testing.
Folks like that should never make requests as they do not like change, they do not even like testing.
HiTech was right when he said people have no idea what they want.
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wow!!! totally amazing!!! "I don't like the way it was before, but I don't like the way it is now!!" WTF!!
how about go with the flow and learn to excel? or use it to you advantage? come folks, enjoy the fights, start fights, make it fun!!!!
Monkey bites I tell ya! Monkey bites! :x
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Have not see you in the MA playing in this nonsense Shuffler. Maybe if yo were playing you would have a different attitude.
Shuff is still recovering for a little storm they had in Texas last year which destroyed his home with a bunch of others.
The point I think he is trying to make is give HTC a chance to figure out what they are looking for. In your case, sucking it up for a few weeks while they test something that may bring in a bunch of new players isnt that big a deal.
I'm all for change, pretty much ANY change at this point. As the numbers continue to drop with the "same old" setup why wouldnt you look forward to something that may improve the game in the long run?
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Would someone please post on the forum, when the Full Dar is taken down. Thank you.
My account is closed until such time.
Most ridiculous game change I've ever seen.
Coogan
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During this whole "test" that is taking place, there is a common theme coming from those that are in RWAAARZ mode about it. The common statement is: I can always find a fight
This test has less to do about veteran players and more to do about new sub players and those that are on the two week trial and contemplating a sub
What you are expecting the "new" cats to do, you did in a completely different environment and for the most part a completely different game.
So, while you stand on your soap box and preach about how all you need is the faintest whiff of the mini map to see the overall picture (is that a thing in a sandbox?). Remember, they haven't been playing since the original launch of Aces High and are picking the game up, many for the first time, at a time that many of us did not have to suffer through when we first joined.
Coogan,
Is it as ridiculous as:
an adult throwing a fit because something didn't go their way.
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My account is closed until such time.
Most ridiculous game change I've ever seen.
Coogan
Tantrums everywhere I tell ya.
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I never had a problem finding a fight...........but then I like to come in below my enemy and on the deck most of the time so that scenario is easy to find.
Now finding a fight where you have the minimum flight time to show up at an advantage is considerably harder and this is what the whiners are hating.
Air spawns sure didn't help IEN even though it satisfied the super vocal minority that complained about transit time.
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I never had a problem finding a fight...........but then I like to come in below my enemy and on the deck most of the time so that scenario is easy to find.
Now finding a fight where you have the minimum flight time to show up at an advantage is considerably harder and this is what the whiners are hating.
Air spawns sure didn't help IEN even though it satisfied the super vocal minority that complained about transit time.
I can explain 2+2=4 again but why bother?
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I'm usually on your side but I'm not backing this kind of behavior.
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My account is closed until such time.
Most ridiculous game change I've ever seen.
Coogan
Fake News
You havent played in a couple of months, unless its been under a shade :noid
I ran single buff milk run this afternoon and landed almost 30K in damage. Just a bit of planning and it can still be done. As a fighter, we still had a "horde" type fight but it was easy to watch your 6 a bit better and made the fights just that much better not being ganged.
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I'm usually on your side but I'm not backing this kind of behavior.
Likewise.
And we've been friends a long time.
The notion people weren't having trouble finding fights is wrong. Period. There is an ample cross section of the player base saying so. It's not isolated to one or two individuals.
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It's funny that the pro-full-dar folks think the only reason others don't like it is because they "avoid combat" or can't hide anymore.
When did you stop beating your wives?
It was not hard to find fights if you could read the map. Maybe newbs (and some vets!) need a short tutorial video or guide on how to read the bar dar.
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It's funny that the pro-full-dar folks think the only reason others don't like it is because they "avoid combat" or can't hide anymore.
When did you stop beating your wives?
It was not hard to find fights if you could read the map. Maybe newbs (and some vets!) need a short tutorial video or guide on how to read the bar dar.
Sweet generalization :aok
has it crossed your mind that all of this radar testing is for those that are just now joining us and those that are thinking about joining us?
you can't have a massive arena and just have a green or red bar across the top left corner and expect those that have never played to understand what is going down with the map. that would be like rolling up to a bar that has it's lights on but the parking is underground. Sure, the lights are on and there might be some people in there but is it a happening place or is it the bar that has three regulars and no new blood because the bar doesn't properly advertise it's events?
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The raging clues of dar bars and bases flashign have become "not enough"?
Many complainers about not finding fights are the first to pipe up in the buffer about a base falling or the HQ/Strats being downed when they, themselves, ignored all the clues.
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It's funny that the pro-full-dar folks think the only reason others don't like it is because they "avoid combat" or can't hide anymore.
When did you stop beating your wives?
It was not hard to find fights if you could read the map. Maybe newbs (and some vets!) need a short tutorial video or guide on how to read the bar dar.
I'm trying to stay out of this conversation but this cannot be left hanging out there without a rebuttal...
I've been playing this style of game for over a decade. I can read a flipping map. Others can, too. You anecdotal experience is not applicable to a wide swath of the population as all of these threads amply demonstrate.
The raging clues of dar bars and bases flashign have become "not enough"?
Many complainers about not finding fights are the first to pipe up in the buffer about a base falling or the HQ/Strats being downed when they, themselves, ignored all the clues.
No, they're not. Especially chasing ghosts halfway across the map. Vets already had problems for extended periods during the day (or night depending on your time zone), noobs would find it impossible.
Anyone who thinks that finding fights under the old settings was not sometimes impossible is dreaming in Technicolor.
Hitech is trying some new things so let's just wait and see how it shakes out. I don't necessarily agree with every single change he's made but I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt in good faith. I think he is on the right track in any event. Let him work the issue with a little less static and fewer tantrums from the players for cryin' out loud. "THIS IS ONLY A TEST. IF IT WERE AN ACTUAL EMERGENCY..."
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Fake News
You havent played in a couple of months, unless its been under a shade :noid
I ran single buff milk run this afternoon and landed almost 30K in damage. Just a bit of planning and it can still be done. As a fighter, we still had a "horde" type fight but it was easy to watch your 6 a bit better and made the fights just that much better not being ganged.
It doesn't matter how long since I've played, i have kept my subscription up to date.
That is, until this unnecessary dar change.
So please, go hump someone else's ankle.
Coogan
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It doesn't matter how long since I've played, i have kept my subscription up to date.
That is, until this unnecessary dar change.
So please, go hump someone else's ankle.
Coogan
Wait, so you don't play...and thus are not at all impacted by any radar change...but you are unsubscribing in protest--and thereby attempting to impact changes that may be a benefit to those of us who *DO* play?
To borrow your phrase: Go pee on someone else's ankle and tell them it's rain.
You're better than that Coogan. (I hope.)
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Sweet generalization :aok
has it crossed your mind that all of this radar testing is for those that are just now joining us and those that are thinking about joining us?
you can't have a massive arena and just have a green or red bar across the top left corner and expect those that have never played to understand what is going down with the map. that would be like rolling up to a bar that has it's lights on but the parking is underground. Sure, the lights are on and there might be some people in there but is it a happening place or is it the bar that has three regulars and no new blood because the bar doesn't properly advertise it's events?
Thing is, we don't know that new players are leaving due to inability to find fights. Recalling my past experiences as a new player in both AW and AH, that was not an issue. IMHO, most posting in favor of more extensive radar are pursuing a personal agenda.
MH
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A few things I like about the new dar.....
- I can spend more time PLAYING the game as apposed to WATCHING the game. With some player with a limited amount of time this is a big plus.
- I can see who wants to play. If I turn toward a con and he DOESNT turn away, he wants to play. I no longer waste time chasing those that DONT want to play around the map.
- If I get tired of the horde I can find a quite spot were one or two guys are hitting a base and KNOW they are air cons and not GVs. Again, no waste of time.
- I like that when a team mate calls out a CV sighting I know were an ENEMY CV is. With Hitech thinking of adding this as an automatic part of the rad dar (scouts opening up bigger areas of open dar) I think this would be a great addition.
- I can avoid getting ganged. If when I move toward a con and one or two others join that con I sometimes continue on looking for the challenge. If however 4 or 5 cons look to be joining I can turn away before Im surrounded by a gang.
- I think this setup is a big plus in helping newbis find action with out having to up in the middle of a vulchfest.
As a down side, I dont see much. I ran a single set of buffs at 20k and milk ran a few towns and only had one guy come after me. Well co-ordinated missions..... something that has been lacking for some time in this game ... will be more of the norm I hope.
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It doesn't matter how long since I've played, i have kept my subscription up to date.
That is, until this unnecessary dar change.
So please, go hump someone else's ankle.
Coogan
The point is that if you have never played in the arena WITH the new settings how can you possibly know if it is any good or not?
You point of view has no validity as you have never experienced the new dar setups. So everyone should know your opinion matters for even less.
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Sweet generalization :aok
has it crossed your mind that all of this radar testing is for those that are just now joining us and those that are thinking about joining us?
you can't have a massive arena and just have a green or red bar across the top left corner and expect those that have never played to understand what is going down with the map. that would be like rolling up to a bar that has it's lights on but the parking is underground. Sure, the lights are on and there might be some people in there but is it a happening place or is it the bar that has three regulars and no new blood because the bar doesn't properly advertise it's events?
That's a fair point, but the new dar settings are the equivalent to many of us of having the bar in the parking lot on a cold and drizzly night.
And yeah, I get it that this is "just a test." But it points to a direction HT intends to take the game in order to get new subscribers. I don't see things reverting back to how they were before the test, do you? Hence the angst.
One would think that people who have been playing the game for many years are more valuable customers to HT than any newbs who might be attracted to the more obvious activity on the map because they are:
1) potential mentors to newbs in a game that has a steep learning curve, and
2) because they've been dependably forking over $15/mo. all that time.
Here's hoping HT strikes a livable balance in that regard somehow. I frankly don't see it happening: for many, the cure is its own disease.
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That's a fair point, but the new dar settings are the equivalent to many of us of having the bar in the parking lot on a cold and drizzly night.
And yeah, I get it that this is "just a test." But it points to a direction HT intends to take the game in order to get new subscribers. I don't see things reverting back to how they were before the test, do you? Hence the angst.
One would think that people who have been playing the game for many years are more valuable customers to HT than any newbs who might be attracted to the more obvious activity on the map because they are:
1) potential mentors to newbs in a game that has a steep learning curve, and
2) because they've been dependably forking over $15/mo. all that time.
Here's hoping HT strikes a livable balance in that regard somehow. I frankly don't see it happening: for many, the cure is its own disease.
Cant find a balance without testing.
No, the cure is a disease to a select few who think their time spent paying a sub somehow matters to the big picture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I didn't think I would be but I'm actually liking the current radar settings
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That's a fair point, but the new dar settings are the equivalent to many of us of having the bar in the parking lot on a cold and drizzly night.
And yeah, I get it that this is "just a test." But it points to a direction HT intends to take the game in order to get new subscribers. I don't see things reverting back to how they were before the test, do you? Hence the angst.
One would think that people who have been playing the game for many years are more valuable customers to HT than any newbs who might be attracted to the more obvious activity on the map because they are:
1) potential mentors to newbs in a game that has a steep learning curve, and
2) because they've been dependably forking over $15/mo. all that time.
Here's hoping HT strikes a livable balance in that regard somehow. I frankly don't see it happening: for many, the cure is its own disease.
Hitech has posted that EVERYONE gets tired of a game and moves on. I think he siad it was something under 2 years and the majority of players leave. We are the abnormality, but we all knew we were abby-normal any way :devil
For the game to be sustainable they have to have MORE new players coming in than old players leaving. Which old players really doesnt matter, 4 monther or 5 yearer, as long as there is more new players coming in than old leaving they are ok. Its called business.
While Im sure they are thankful for the loyalty of us long timers they certainly are not going to form the game around us.
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So you can fly NOE but only over water.
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For the game to be sustainable they have to have MORE new players coming in than old players leaving. Which old players really doesnt matter, 4 monther or 5 yearer, as long as there is more new players coming in than old leaving they are ok. Its called business.
While Im sure they are thankful for the loyalty of us long timers they certainly are not going to form the game around us.
I'll address your last point first.
1) "Thankfulness for our loyalty" should barely be an afterthought for HT. He's got a business that he needs to run successfully. I agree that the game ought not be formed around oldtimers; but they are a resource that potentially can help the game grow again (and a continuing source of revenue, as I mentioned earlier). Players are finally seemingly starting to get it that newbs are more than a collection of scalps to wave around in triumph: they're the future of the game they enjoy. I've already noticed a more welcoming attitude toward star-less names. Hopefully, for the game's sake, things will proceed further in that direction.
2) I disagree with the "more coming in than going out" thing. Someone who has been here for years is a more reliable source for revenue than a new guy who is here today but will probably be gone tomorrow. I don't know what the break-even ratio would be, but clearly 1:1 is a losing proposition. Probably even 1:5 is.
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I can explain 2+2=4 again but why bother?
Okay V I'll bite, why does 2+2=4? :devil
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I'll address your last point first.
1) "Thankfulness for our loyalty" should barely be an afterthought for HT. He's got a business that he needs to run successfully. I agree that the game ought not be formed around oldtimers; but they are a resource that potentially can help the game grow again (and a continuing source of revenue, as I mentioned earlier). Players are finally seemingly starting to get it that newbs are more than a collection of scalps to wave around in triumph: they're the future of the game they enjoy. I've already noticed a more welcoming attitude toward star-less names. Hopefully, for the game's sake, things will proceed further in that direction.
2) I disagree with the "more coming in than going out" thing. Someone who has been here for years is a more reliable source for revenue than a new guy who is here today but will probably be gone tomorrow. I don't know what the break-even ratio would be, but clearly 1:1 is a losing proposition. Probably even 1:5 is.
As the numbers continue to drop how can you disagree with the "more coming in than going out" thing? Its simple math. If 50 people join a month, and 40 people leave.... no matter how long they have been here 10 x 14.95 = $149.50 more in HTC's coffers.
The changes HTC makes should all be geared toward that goal, of bringing in more players than leave.
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As the numbers continue to drop how can you disagree with the "more coming in than going out" thing? Its simple math. If 50 people join a month, and 40 people leave.... no matter how long they have been here 10 x 14.95 = $149.50 more in HTC's coffers.
The changes HTC makes should all be geared toward that goal, of bringing in more players than leave.
Because the people coming in due to all-seeing dar are a less reliable source of continuing income than the people going out because of it. They've proved they are here to stay (for quite a while anyway). Newbs are ephemeral.
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Because the people coming in due to all-seeing dar are a less reliable source of continuing income than the people going out because of it. They've proved they are here to stay (for quite a while anyway). Newbs are ephemeral.
Yeah. Real reliable. That's why they are leaving.
Fugitive is right. Loyalty has its place--it also has its limits.
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Because the people coming in due to all-seeing dar are a less reliable source of continuing income than the people going out because of it. They've proved they are here to stay (for quite a while anyway). Newbs are ephemeral.
Maybe, maybe not, still as long as more come in than leave HTC is golden. If you leave and 5 guys come in a buy only one month they are still ahead of the game.
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Haven't played much of late...upped a N bomb truck a few bases back (as it climbs like a Lanc) Noticed a darbar in the adjacent/parallel sector...then a see a PLANE on dar (the oddity of the icon outside-the-ring part didn't sink in yet) and the guy is vectoring right in on me...I'm thinking "WTF?, is this another one of those 2nd account people?" My wep's burned up, though I dumped my ord I'm at 11k, 225 speed, now I gotta fight this guy, as well as the 109 who vectored in on me.... Awesome
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How many of you don't believe Hitech is performing a test of the radar?
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Because the people coming in due to all-seeing dar are a less reliable source of continuing income than the people going out because of it. They've proved they are here to stay (for quite a while anyway). Newbs are ephemeral.
Until something happens that they don't like and they cancel their accounts. Real friggen loyal they are... .
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Until something happens that they don't like and they cancel their accounts. Real friggen loyal they are... .
The people who are complaining most vociferously about the new dar system have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade. Customers should not be loyal to a product when that product (in their mind at least) degrades any more than HT should be loyal to such customers if he feels it costs him money. Capitalism 101.
Are you implying that I should continue to play the game, even though I don't consider it worth the time and money any more, because it used to be better and I had five happy years here?
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As the numbers continue to drop how can you disagree with the "more coming in than going out" thing? Its simple math. If 50 people join a month, and 40 people leave.... no matter how long they have been here 10 x 14.95 = $149.50 more in HTC's coffers.
The changes HTC makes should all be geared toward that goal, of bringing in more players than leave.
Still have some hope things change. IMHO authentic is what made the game. Holding out hope but getting tired of the monthly expense for a game I no longer identify with. Nice to see you and a few still in here. Never posted much but a big fan of the game. Hope it survives what ever this business model is :old:
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The people who are complaining most vociferously about the new dar system have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade.
The people who are SUPPORTING most vociferously the new dar system/TEST have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade.
I might also add that many of us contribute to the game in other ways--maps, skinning, etc.
*drops the mic*
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The people who are complaining most vociferously about the new dar system have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade. Customers should not be loyal to a product when that product (in their mind at least) degrades any more than HT should be loyal to such customers if he feels it costs him money. Capitalism 101.
Are you implying that I should continue to play the game, even though I don't consider it worth the time and money any more, because it used to be better and I had five happy years here?
Gonna try and speak in crayon for you:
[crayola]
H I T E C H is testing new radar settings and combinations of these settings. Nothing is permanent and we will more than likely see several iterations before all is finalized. There are several reasons why this is happening. One does not need to be in the "AcesHigh3 circle of trust" to figure most if it out.
You mean the 5 - 10 accounts that post on the forums and the same 5 - 10 accounts that would argue if someone called a skunk a polecat?
HiTech has to be loyal to his employees and that is only to the extent that the law makes provisions for.
As far as loyalty to the player base... . welcome to the real world. They NEED to keep the lights on, they NEED to pay employees, they DON'T NEED to make decisions for their company and product based on the views of a very small minority. They NEED to look towards the future of this sandbox platform and how to make it thrive regardless of the precious few that scream so loud about damn near anything that bumps their coffee mugs.
[/crayola]
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Gonna try and speak in crayon for you:
[crayola]
H I T E C H is testing new radar settings and combinations of these settings. Nothing is permanent and we will more than likely see several iterations before all is finalized. There are several reasons why this is happening. One does not need to be in the "AcesHigh3 circle of trust" to figure most if it out.
You mean the 5 - 10 accounts that post on the forums and the same 5 - 10 accounts that would argue if someone called a skunk a polecat?
HiTech has to be loyal to his employees and that is only to the extent that the law makes provisions for.
As far as loyalty to the player base... . welcome to the real world. They NEED to keep the lights on, they NEED to pay employees, they DON'T NEED to make decisions for their company and product based on the views of a very small minority. They NEED to look towards the future of this sandbox platform and how to make it thrive regardless of the precious few that scream so loud about damn near anything that bumps their coffee mugs.
[/crayola]
Bravo. :salute
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Bravo. :salute
+1
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Gonna try and speak in crayon for you:
[crayola]
H I T E C H is testing new radar settings and combinations of these settings. Nothing is permanent and we will more than likely see several iterations before all is finalized. There are several reasons why this is happening. One does not need to be in the "AcesHigh3 circle of trust" to figure most if it out.
You mean the 5 - 10 accounts that post on the forums and the same 5 - 10 accounts that would argue if someone called a skunk a polecat?
HiTech has to be loyal to his employees and that is only to the extent that the law makes provisions for.
As far as loyalty to the player base... . welcome to the real world. They NEED to keep the lights on, they NEED to pay employees, they DON'T NEED to make decisions for their company and product based on the views of a very small minority. They NEED to look towards the future of this sandbox platform and how to make it thrive regardless of the precious few that scream so loud about damn near anything that bumps their coffee mugs.
[/crayola]
Lol.
What is your in-game name? How often do you play? And how many current players do you communicate with?
You seem totally out of touch with the people I talk with. Granted we likely have different peer groups but your ignorance suggests you haven't been playing much lately; and you superciliousness in regards to a reasonably stated opinion (shared by many) suggests you're letting pride or self-interest guide your thinking.
I totally agree with you that HT needs to make big picture decisions irrespective of how many vocal people don't like them. But I emphatically disagree with you that a "very small minority" passionately dislike the new dar. It's nearly every long term player who doesn't primarily fly fighters in this game.
Wake up.
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Because the people coming in due to all-seeing dar are a less reliable source of continuing income than the people going out because of it. They've proved they are here to stay (for quite a while anyway). Newbs are ephemeral.
Good Lord. Ascribing "reliability" (loyalty?) based on radar preference?
SMH.
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Lol.
What is your in-game name? How often do you play? And how many current players do you communicate with?
You seem totally out of touch with the people I talk with. Granted we likely have different peer groups but your ignorance suggests you haven't been playing much lately; and you superciliousness in regards to a reasonably stated opinion (shared by many) suggests you're letting pride or self-interest guide your thinking.
I totally agree with you that HT needs to make big picture decisions irrespective of how many vocal people don't like them. But I emphatically disagree with you that a "very small minority" passionately dislike the new dar. It's nearly every long term player who doesn't primarily fly fighters in this game.
Wake up.
Oh. Now you're modifying your criteria. I sense a losing argument.
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But I emphatically disagree with you that a "very small minority" passionately dislike the new dar. It's nearly every long term player who doesn't primarily fly fighters in this game.
You can disagree all you want, makes not a bit of difference to me. The writing is on the wall and will remain there for quite some time.
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Good Lord. Ascribing "reliability" (loyalty?) based on radar preference?
SMH.
Ascribing reliability based on how many months they've payed to play.
Wish the BB had the same "squelch" function the game does. Your straw man arguments are a waste of time and space. Will skip past them in the future, have a nice life.
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Ascribing reliability based on how many months they've payed to play.
Wish the BB had the same "squelch" function the game does. Your straw man arguments are a waste of time and space. Will skip past them in the future, have a nice life.
The notion that people have different loyalties based on radar preferences according to some criteria you made up in your head is the very definition of a straw man. Thank you for demonstrating.
:ahand
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HT is experimenting, trying to judge human behavior based upon the changing dar settings. I can't say I care for them, but I appreciate his efforts
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Gonna try and speak in crayon for you:
[crayola]
H I T E C H is testing new radar settings and combinations of these settings. Nothing is permanent and we will more than likely see several iterations before all is finalized. There are several reasons why this is happening. One does not need to be in the "AcesHigh3 circle of trust" to figure most if it out.
You mean the 5 - 10 accounts that post on the forums and the same 5 - 10 accounts that would argue if someone called a skunk a polecat?
HiTech has to be loyal to his employees and that is only to the extent that the law makes provisions for.
As far as loyalty to the player base... . welcome to the real world. They NEED to keep the lights on, they NEED to pay employees, they DON'T NEED to make decisions for their company and product based on the views of a very small minority. They NEED to look towards the future of this sandbox platform and how to make it thrive regardless of the precious few that scream so loud about damn near anything that bumps their coffee mugs.
[/crayola]
I think the biggest hurdle for this game is, it takes its direction from a bulletin board which is highly regulated and some topics are off limits. I am a player on several other games that I played in tandem with Aces High. Several of these games rely on customer feedback in the form of well thought out questioners authored by professional pollsters that guide the owners in how to make changes to their product. It includes portions where the customer base rates from 1 to 10 different aspects of the game play. It also includes sections for the customer to voice their ideas that were not covered in the ratings sections. The survey I would assume was most probably done by professional pollsters, kind of like the surveys you get from companies that each one of us has had the opportunity to take in the past. Companies like Wall Mart and Amazon and others rely heavily on these surveys to evolve their companies into successful business models. I mean who knows better what the customer wants, then the customers themselves. Most of these surveys are anonymous, and are conducted by an outside company, and yield better results because most people only voice an opinion when they have a complaint, very few make contact with a company to praise them about their product. The games I play send two types of Surveys as short 2 or 3 question 3 or 4 times a year. They also send a more comprehensive one annually to poll their customers on how to improve their product.
I think it would be well served for HiTech to consider polling the current customers to find out what is keeping them in the game and what suggestions they might have to improve the product. You might also consider polling the former customers and find out why they left and more importantly would they ever consider coming back. There are two words that are very important to most businesses, Acquisition & Retention. It’s common knowledge that it cost It costs 7x more to obtain a new customer than to keep an existing one. Running a business without customer feedback, is like driving cross county in a car, without road signs.
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Surveys are helpful if you can get a proper number of people to fill then out honestly. If not, they are useless.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think a much better option than screwing with the radar function would have been to make 262s only available at certain large bases. Or even better spending time making new maps.
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I think a much better option than screwing with the radar function would have been to make 262s only available at certain large bases. Or even better spending time making new maps.
The conundrum HT faces is "How can I make the game more likely to hook newbs without alienating a large segment of the existing player base?" I wish I had a good answer for that, but I don't (except catching the newbs very quickly once they check out the game and having people help them integrate, but apparently that is impracticable).
When buff icons were identifiable as such in stage 1 of the dar experiment a few smart players jetted around the arena in deuces, watched the map, and pounced on buffs soon after they upped. (And got awfully upset when said buffs saw what was about to happen and ditched or bailed ahead of them, eh lefty?) ;) But that's less of an issue now. I don't think 262s are the problem.
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The main problem is people get tired of paying $15 a month to be a punching bag for other countries.
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The main problem is people get tired of paying $15 a month to be a punching bag for other countries.
Some folks are just not competitive.
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I think the main problem is that new players need settings that the veteran players loathe, and vice versa.
New folks need to have FUN in the first 10 minutes - not spend them setting up their joystick or learning about which plane is the best one or asking question how to find other planes (what is the darbar????). The competition from other games offering a very polished and well guided experience in the first in-game minutes is very strong these days and if folks can´t fly and fight right away (even if they loose), they are gone.
I fully believe that the only solution is to have a mandatory, interactive, well guided and fun tutorial for new players. Its a huge coding effort for sure, but it is industry standards nowadays and for a game as complex as Aces High, there is no alternative.
Jan
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Had a new guy trying to figure out the game at our 1 base left at TT .. He was using VR and was loving the game until he tried to up from a capped base 15 nits Strong with only two or three countrymen willing to up from A1.. explained few things about vox , planes , convergence etc he seemed real happy with the graphics and liked the radar help ... He quickly learned the dangers of upping from a capped base... How a player plays is the only variable..I have to remember that how I choose to play may not be how another chooses to play..<S> V
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I think the main problem is that new players need settings that the veteran players loathe, and vice versa.
New folks need to have FUN in the first 10 minutes - not spend them setting up their joystick or learning about which plane is the best one or asking question how to find other planes (what is the darbar????). The competition from other games offering a very polished and well guided experience in the first in-game minutes is very strong these days and if folks can´t fly and fight right away (even if they loose), they are gone.
I fully believe that the only solution is to have a mandatory, interactive, well guided and fun tutorial for new players. Its a huge coding effort for sure, but it is industry standards nowadays and for a game as complex as Aces High, there is no alternative.
Jan
Totally agree! Thats what I like about DCS...with out their Training tutorials...NO WAY I could have learned on my own...talk about complex learning curve! :uhoh If I intemperate the ARENA Flight Flag options..."Stall Limiter" can be increased? That would work I think...like while on TRIAL its cranked up to ATLEAST get them in the air and SOMEWHAT give them hope. If they do decide to sub..back to regular values? :uhoh Oh and as for your "Mandatory tutorials" go....Require folk to at least TRY the tutorials before being able to go to Melee Arena? Sure...give option to skip this...we do have some folk coming back/changing call signs...atleast it would be available if new folk where interested :uhoh
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The people who are SUPPORTING most vociferously the new dar system/TEST have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade.
I might also add that many of us contribute to the game in other ways--maps, skinning, etc.
*drops the mic*
2001 for me and I hate dummy dar
*mic drop*
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I fully believe that the only solution is to have a mandatory, interactive, well guided and fun tutorial for new players. Its a huge coding effort for sure, but it is industry standards nowadays and for a game as complex as Aces High, there is no alternative.
This*
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I think the biggest hurdle for this game is, it takes its direction from a bulletin board which is highly regulated and some topics are off limits. I am a player on several other games that I played in tandem with Aces High. Several of these games rely on customer feedback in the form of well thought out questioners authored by professional pollsters that guide the owners in how to make changes to their product. It includes portions where the customer base rates from 1 to 10 different aspects of the game play. It also includes sections for the customer to voice their ideas that were not covered in the ratings sections. The survey I would assume was most probably done by professional pollsters, kind of like the surveys you get from companies that each one of us has had the opportunity to take in the past. Companies like Wall Mart and Amazon and others rely heavily on these surveys to evolve their companies into successful business models. I mean who knows better what the customer wants, then the customers themselves. Most of these surveys are anonymous, and are conducted by an outside company, and yield better results because most people only voice an opinion when they have a complaint, very few make contact with a company to praise them about their product. The games I play send two types of Surveys as short 2 or 3 question 3 or 4 times a year. They also send a more comprehensive one annually to poll their customers on how to improve their product.
I think it would be well served for HiTech to consider polling the current customers to find out what is keeping them in the game and what suggestions they might have to improve the product. You might also consider polling the former customers and find out why they left and more importantly would they ever consider coming back. There are two words that are very important to most businesses, Acquisition & Retention. It’s common knowledge that it cost It costs 7x more to obtain a new customer than to keep an existing one. Running a business without customer feedback, is like driving cross county in a car, without road signs.
he doesn't need to poll people who are subscribed, they are already playing. Maybe he has been polling those that have left and the number one complaint was the new players couldn't find the action. So he began the radar testing.
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I fully believe that the only solution is to have a mandatory, interactive, well guided and fun tutorial for new players. Its a huge coding effort for sure, but it is industry standards nowadays and for a game as complex as Aces High, there is no alternative.
You do realize that you are talking apples to oranges?
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2001 for me and I hate dummy dar
*mic drop*
Molly already said all that so your mic drop is doubly ineffective.
:police:
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Wow, sorry but you are WAY out in left field with that comment. I wish that a poll could be taken on those that like and those that don't I think that would be a eye opener for you.
Gonna try and speak in crayon for you:
[crayola]
H I T E C H is testing new radar settings and combinations of these settings. Nothing is permanent and we will more than likely see several iterations before all is finalized. There are several reasons why this is happening. One does not need to be in the "AcesHigh3 circle of trust" to figure most if it out.
You mean the 5 - 10 accounts that post on the forums and the same 5 - 10 accounts that would argue if someone called a skunk a polecat?
HiTech has to be loyal to his employees and that is only to the extent that the law makes provisions for.
As far as loyalty to the player base... . welcome to the real world. They NEED to keep the lights on, they NEED to pay employees, they DON'T NEED to make decisions for their company and product based on the views of a very small minority. They NEED to look towards the future of this sandbox platform and how to make it thrive regardless of the precious few that scream so loud about damn near anything that bumps their coffee mugs.
[/crayola]
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The people who are SUPPORTING most vociferously the new dar system/TEST have all been here for many years; some even more than a decade.
I might also add that many of us contribute to the game in other ways--maps, skinning, etc.
*drops the mic*
The people who are supporting this are a few. There are MANY who have been here for years (including myself) that DO NOT support this change. What you don't here from are the masses that are NOT on the forums here, or the squaddies behind the scenes that are frustrated with this, already looking for other options and will cancel their subs - they are waiting to see what transpires over the next couple of weeks.
I understand what they are trying to find out - why they get so many people trying out the game for 2 weeks then losing those players that don't turn into new subs. I get it - it comes down to player retention and increasing numbers. The all seeing radar is NOT going to fix that. Fix the problem with getting new players trained properly and introduced to the game and you will see a higher retention. This is the root cause of your problem - not the radar.
If someone wants the arcade action like this they are better off in WT or others out there...but this has been a total disgrace to the community of players in what was a good simulation to date. It was frustrating enough to adjust with the GVDar...but now this has just simply created unfairness for fighter jocks. It's too easy to calculate the altitude of a potential upped bomber from a base in the distance way back in their country, fairly easy to figure out what is a bomber from a near base looking at it's flight path, etc. It's too unbalanced once again to appease those who spend their time mostly in fighters.
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Wow, sorry but you are WAY out in left field with that comment. I wish that a poll could be taken on those that like and those that don't I think that would be a eye opener for you.
You say I’m Left field but offer nothing to refute what I have written.
Interesting debating method... .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The people who are supporting this are a few. There are MANY who have been here for years (including myself) that DO NOT support this change. What you don't here from are the masses that are NOT on the forums here, or the squaddies behind the scenes that are frustrated with this, already looking for other options and will cancel their subs - they are waiting to see what transpires over the next couple of weeks.
I understand what they are trying to find out - why they get so many people trying out the game for 2 weeks then losing those players that don't turn into new subs. I get it - it comes down to player retention and increasing numbers. The all seeing radar is NOT going to fix that. Fix the problem with getting new players trained properly and introduced to the game and you will see a higher retention. This is the root cause of your problem - not the radar.
If someone wants the arcade action like this they are better off in WT or others out there...but this has been a total disgrace to the community of players in what was a good simulation to date. It was frustrating enough to adjust with the GVDar...but now this has just simply created unfairness for fighter jocks. It's too easy to calculate the altitude of a potential upped bomber from a base in the distance way back in their country, fairly easy to figure out what is a bomber from a near base looking at it's flight path, etc. It's too unbalanced once again to appease those who spend their time mostly in fighters.
You do realize this is just a series of tests, right?
If it’s un fair to fighters and unfair to Bombers and unfair to Gv’s, Isn’t it spot on?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Prefer the old setup.
Changes could be good. But not this.
Just sayin!.... :bolt:
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If someone wants the arcade action like this they are better off in WT or others out there...but this has been a total disgrace to the community of players in what was a good simulation to date. It was frustrating enough to adjust with the GVDar...but now this has just simply created unfairness for fighter jocks. It's too easy to calculate the altitude of a potential upped bomber from a base in the distance way back in their country, fairly easy to figure out what is a bomber from a near base looking at it's flight path, etc. It's too unbalanced once again to appease those who spend their time mostly in fighters.
That's hyperbole at its finest.
Let Hitech get the info he's seeking and chill out.
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Prefer the old setup.
Changes could be good. But not this.
Just sayin!.... :bolt:
He has to test to make changes. So are you saying do not test or make changes?
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The guy who stole the Horizon Air Q-400
He told air traffic control: "I've played video games before and I know what I'm doing a little bit."
I blame HiTech and his radar settings. A lot of AH players are experimenting with other simulations.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/13/alaska-air-unclear-on-how-employee-richard-russell-flew-stolen-plane.html
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He did mention AA guns at McChord lol
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He did mention AA guns at McChord lol
He was clearly worried about puffy ack.
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The people who are supporting this are a few. There are MANY who have been here for years (including myself) that DO NOT support this change. What you don't here from are the masses that are NOT on the forums here, or the squaddies behind the scenes that are frustrated with this, already looking for other options and will cancel their subs - they are waiting to see what transpires over the next couple of weeks.
I understand what they are trying to find out - why they get so many people trying out the game for 2 weeks then losing those players that don't turn into new subs. I get it - it comes down to player retention and increasing numbers. The all seeing radar is NOT going to fix that. Fix the problem with getting new players trained properly and introduced to the game and you will see a higher retention. This is the root cause of your problem - not the radar.
If someone wants the arcade action like this they are better off in WT or others out there...but this has been a total disgrace to the community of players in what was a good simulation to date. It was frustrating enough to adjust with the GVDar...but now this has just simply created unfairness for fighter jocks. It's too easy to calculate the altitude of a potential upped bomber from a base in the distance way back in their country, fairly easy to figure out what is a bomber from a near base looking at it's flight path, etc. It's too unbalanced once again to appease those who spend their time mostly in fighters.
Agreed.. and I must add to this by pointing out that the downfall of Warbirds was the same as this radar test. Make it more like an arcade game all the while chasing away SQUADS and OLD members. You chase away squads, you lose #s for events and main arena. Sooner or later it becomes a simple shoot em up. No reason to meet as a group and coorrdinate as a group. Circles the toilet until death.
IMO if you want to keep players, IMPROVE THE GRAPHIC ENGINE. Warbirds died because Aces High *was* much better. Now IL2, DCS (with barely a few WWII planes) and other games have better core graphic engines. I'm sure Hitect knows his market share is shrinking.
Last but not least: Lets face it WWII planes are waning in interest in younger generations, they rather get into modern fighting warfare and instant gratifications of smart devices. Why do you think DCS is so popular these days. People learn the complex systems and the visual payoff is HUGE. I've seen a few friends demonstrat red vs blue events, and regular training. Wow. They want to relate to real world events. To that end Aces High will not nor ever retain those players, nor will they retain the 'shoot em up' players addicted to smart devices and quick results.
But IL2 still holds on, there are a dedicated core.... Aces High needs to retain the dedicated core as well.
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Agreed.. and I must add to this by pointing out that the downfall of Warbirds was the same as this radar test. Make it more like an arcade game all the while chasing away SQUADS and OLD members. You chase away squads, you lose #s for events and main arena. Sooner or later it becomes a simple shoot em up. No reason to meet as a group and coorrdinate as a group. Circles the toilet until death.
#FakeNews Warbirds died because AH was being developed while WBs was stagnant. Wildbill and his jerky attitude ran off a lot of players. Multiple experiments to add "realism" also seriously backfired. All-seeing dot dar was not the issue.
You contradict yourself below...
IMO if you want to keep players, IMPROVE THE GRAPHIC ENGINE. Warbirds died because Aces High *was* much better. Now IL2, DCS (with barely a few WWII planes) and other games have better core graphic engines. I'm sure Hitect knows his market share is shrinking.
Ahem.
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Now IL2, DCS (with barely a few WWII planes) and other games have better core graphic engines. I'm sure Hitect knows his market share is shrinking.
Those games don't have 150 people's pc's to update every few seconds either. WOT has really nice graphics too, but max 30 people, and very small maps
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He did mention AA guns at McChord lol
I found that a dead giveaway.
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#FakeNews Warbirds died because AH was being developed while WBs was stagnant. Wildbill and his jerky attitude ran off a lot of players. Multiple experiments to add "realism" also seriously backfired. All-seeing dot dar was not the issue.
You contradict yourself below...
Ahem.
#Fakenews Double - Warbirds died because it was not developing its core engine. Aces high is right on track for failure because of the same exact thing....
Wilbill was jerky, but hitech being equally jerky with playing with it's core player base (or did you conveniently forget that).
Lastly, all seeing dot dar WITH the lack of graphic development chased away squads (who almost exclusively flew in the WWII arena which is not to be confused with the shoot em up arena). The shoot em up arena in Warbirds was what Aces high main arena was ABOUT to become with all seeing radar. Aces high at the time was much better than warbids that it incorporated some element of strategy.... Warbirds was pure fighter 3 country war shoot em up. Aces High was about to go just that. 3 country fighter cons war. No sense of grouping up, no sense of squads, no sense of missions. no sense at all. See the similarity it was about to become??? No brainer.
Hmmmm.. food for thought sir.
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#Fakenews Double - Warbirds died because it was not developing its core engine. Aces high is right on track for failure because of the same exact thing....
Wilbill was jerky, but hitech being equally jerky with playing with it's core player base (or did you conveniently forget that).
Lastly, all seeing dot dar WITH the lack of graphic development chased away squads (who almost exclusively flew in the WWII arena which is not to be confused with the shoot em up arena). The shoot em up arena in Warbirds was what Aces high main arena was ABOUT to become with all seeing radar. Aces high at the time was much better than warbids that it incorporated some element of strategy.... Warbirds was pure fighter 3 country war shoot em up. Aces High was about to go just that. 3 country fighter cons war. No sense of grouping up, no sense of squads, no sense of missions. no sense at all. See the similarity it was about to become??? No brainer.
Hmmmm.. food for thought sir.
I was there the whole time. AvA had the same settings on dar and then everyone moved to the Main and settings later changed to shorter range icons and other “realistic” stuff. Buried the game.
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I was there the whole time. AvA had the same settings on dar and then everyone moved to the Main and settings later changed to shorter range icons and other “realistic” stuff. Buried the game.
That was a last ditch move.... I was there a long long time in Ava... multipel squads got run off by the games wilbil would play (sound familiar). Wilbil never developed the graphics, other games came along. the Main arena was an utter joke that they had to implement 'shorter range' icons to appeas the failing AvA historical arenas and squads from leaving. Nonetheless it all failed, and am glad to report the wabirds shoot em up style arena mentality died.
Same was about to happen to Aces High and will still happen because the core graphic engine of aces high not keeping up with competition such as Il2, as well as other quick smart devices.
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That was a last ditch move.... I was there a long long time in Ava... multipel squads. Wilbil never developed the graphics, other games came along. the Main arena was an utter joke that they had to implement 'shorter range' icons to appeas the failing AvA historical arenas and squads from leaving. Nonetheless it all failed, and am glad to report the wabirds shoot em up style arena mentality died.
Same was about to happen to Aces High and will still happen because the core graphic engine of aces high not keeping up with competition such as Il2, as well as other quick smart devices.
How is your game going? I would like to compare it.
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How is your game going? I would like to compare it.
My game is Aces High. How is your game going?
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My game is Aces High. How is your game going?
That is HiTech's game.
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Those games don't have 150 people's pc's to update every few seconds either. WOT has really nice graphics too, but max 30 people, and very small maps
True...in DCS, I have yet to see more than a very low server population. Sure, the pretty graphics are AWESOME. You WILL NEVER see player numbers any where near AH has. Talk about GLITCH PRONE...DCS has way more issues with this than AH
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That is HiTech's game.
:rofl
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#Fakenews Double - Warbirds died because it was not developing its core engine. Aces high is right on track for failure because of the same exact thing....
Wilbill was jerky, but hitech being equally jerky with playing with it's core player base (or did you conveniently forget that).
Lastly, all seeing dot dar WITH the lack of graphic development chased away squads (who almost exclusively flew in the WWII arena which is not to be confused with the shoot em up arena). The shoot em up arena in Warbirds was what Aces high main arena was ABOUT to become with all seeing radar. Aces high at the time was much better than warbids that it incorporated some element of strategy.... Warbirds was pure fighter 3 country war shoot em up. Aces High was about to go just that. 3 country fighter cons war. No sense of grouping up, no sense of squads, no sense of missions. no sense at all. See the similarity it was about to become??? No brainer.
Hmmmm.. food for thought sir.
There is a lot of truth in your post...."No sense of grouping up, no sense of squads, no sense of missions. no sense at all. See the similarity it was about to become??? No brainer." It will be interesting to see how this all pans out, but I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.
When I have been polled about other games I am currently playing, Ace High doesn't make the list to choose from....but I always added the games name in the "Other" section.
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He has to test to make changes. So are you saying do not test or make changes?
I agree with testing and making changes. I just didn't like the two options.
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My group (475FG) left Aces High 15 months ago because it was hard to find a fight in the Melee. There were one or two squads that would come out the Ack to fight but it was very sparse. Mostly a lot of flying around, listening to the GV's on range voice chatter incessantly. We got tired of hide and seek. FSO was the last thing to hold us in AH but its weekly re-run of fly around for 52 minutes, get in a massive furball over the target and fly home was pretty stale. One of our members found an exciting option and the leadership decided to pursue it.
It boils down to the same thing in both Warbirds and AH. The game was set up to provide options to accomplish major game objectives without actively pursuing combat with other human players. That attracts a certain personality type and that eventually changes the character of the player base as a whole.
Personally, I am regularly flying DCS, IL2 and WT SB in VR. They each hold their strong points and one of those holds our attention enough to fly a couple hours every day (after nearly 25 years flying online AND real world flying careers).
The one thing missing is massively multiplayer persistent arena airplanes only. I (we) miss the camaraderie of the original concept. A persistent world of air combat.
We have found a place where people fly and fight with little hide and seek (there are folks who NOE Jabo but the maps are small) and ZERO human GV's.
What we don't have and apparently doesn't exist is what Warbirds and Aces High originally were. MMO air combat in a persistent arena. Every persistent arena title has tried to do "combined" operations on the theory that more people is better.
It doesn't work. That should be obvious to everyone by now but somehow it isn't. The personality type that chooses to play air clashes with the type that chooses ground in a game and it is impossible to create a game that pleases both groups. The ground type is undoubtedly a larger group, much larger for a host of reasons so I certainly understand the business reason for pursuing them. However; they do not want to be bombed and strafed into oblivion so they want to be able to avoid/hide from airplanes. Once that idea of game play is established, the end is very predictable.
If AH were to suddenly decide to remove the human GV option and incentivize human versus human aerial combat, I would be among the first to re-subscribe. That is very likely impossible from a business perspective as it would kill a very large portion of the current subscriber rolls and require at least a year commitment to attract the air combat players into the game.
Anyway, my opinion, FWIW
:salute :bolt:
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I agree with testing and making changes. I just didn't like the two options.
Fair enough. During testing we can only guess what it is he is attempting to discern.
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Well, it's going on 2 weeks now that we've had Full Dar and I've come up with a theme of things I'd rather do than fly AH now.
1. Weed my lawn.
2. Water my lawn.
3. Mow the lawn.
4. Cut the hedges
5. Steam clean my carpets.
6. Paint the trim (inside and out).
7. Take my teenage daughter clothes shopping for school (that felt weird).
8. Take my wife on US 127 Longest Yard Sale (we actually started in Crossville, Tn and drove south). I hate you guys for that one.
9. Meet and befriend my new next door neighbors (I have no idea what happened to the old ones, or when they moved).
10. Watch Kermie Cam on youtube. I don't know which is worse, but I'd rather torture myself watching Kermit Weeks self glorify himself than fly in AH arcade right now.
Honorable mentions - watch tv, catch up on the news (I'd herd rumors that D. Trump had become President.), bought and started using a NuWave oven, changed my socks, walked the dogs, washed my truck, washed the wife's car, do the laundry, shop for groceries, need I go on.
The only thing I can see is that AH has made my wife happy and put a few Illegals Aliens out of work (note items 1 thru 4).
So if somebody would please txt me (Dam, HGBUCK, knob, eod907, weiser, hlywood...) when this thing is over so I can go back to being normal again.
ANCHOR sends
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Shhhhhh.... Don't tell him it's over until he does a few more yard sales. :devil
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Shhhhhh.... Don't tell him it's over until he does a few more yard sales. :devil
:rofl :rofl
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gldnbb: Some how you missed the complete graphic engine update we did 2 years ago. You also seem to have missed the VR update we have done.
HiTech
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gldnbb: Some how you missed the complete graphic engine update we did 2 years ago. You also seem to have missed the VR update we have done.
HiTech
I believe he missed the boat which explains why he fell off the pier. :devil
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I believe he missed the boat which explains why he fell off the pier. :devil
Did he hit his head on the dock? :D
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Well, it's going on 2 weeks now that we've had Full Dar and I've come up with a theme of things I'd rather do than fly AH now.
1. Weed my lawn.
2. Water my lawn.
3. Mow the lawn.
4. Cut the hedges
5. Steam clean my carpets.
6. Paint the trim (inside and out).
7. Take my teenage daughter clothes shopping for school (that felt weird).
8. Take my wife on US 127 Longest Yard Sale (we actually started in Crossville, Tn and drove south). I hate you guys for that one.
9. Meet and befriend my new next door neighbors (I have no idea what happened to the old ones, or when they moved).
10. Watch Kermie Cam on youtube. I don't know which is worse, but I'd rather torture myself watching Kermit Weeks self glorify himself than fly in AH arcade right now.
Honorable mentions - watch tv, catch up on the news (I'd herd rumors that D. Trump had become President.), bought and started using a NuWave oven, changed my socks, walked the dogs, washed my truck, washed the wife's car, do the laundry, shop for groceries, need I go on.
The only thing I can see is that AH has made my wife happy and put a few Illegals Aliens out of work (note items 1 thru 4).
So if somebody would please txt me (Dam, HGBUCK, knob, eod907, weiser, hlywood...) when this thing is over so I can go back to being normal again.
ANCHOR sends
Lol!! That was awesome!
The current phase of the test has things back to nearly normal, you can come back now, at least until phase 4 kicks in.
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I was glad to see the poll pop-up in game, hopefully there will be more polls as this test progresses and in the future when new features are added or removed.
:aok
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I was glad to see the poll pop-up in game, hopefully there will be more polls as this test progresses and in the future when new features are added or removed.
:aok
Unfortunately, those options will split the vote to the point that status quo will win by default.
I didn't like the bomber icons going away, at least within the radar rings. A three-ship should show as bombers. A solo buff....? Maybe he can show as a fighter.
I am wondering if a "Theater Radar" wouldn't be a good compromise. Slower update. Shows stuff at long range but not necessarily type. Can be bombed. I know Hitech said he was working on some other iterations of the theme to come up with something that to me sounded both realistic and helpful to finding engagements.
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Unfortunately, those options will split the vote to the point that status quo will win by default.
I didn't like the bomber icons going away, at least within the radar rings. A three-ship should show as bombers. A solo buff....? Maybe he can show as a fighter.
I am wondering if a "Theater Radar" wouldn't be a good compromise. Slower update. Shows stuff at long range but not necessarily type. Can be bombed. I know Hitech said he was working on some other iterations of the theme to come up with something that to me sounded both realistic and helpful to finding engagements.
When I played on Monday, bomber icons showed up inside of an undestroyed dar circle.
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My group (475FG) left Aces High 15 months ago because it was hard to find a fight in the Melee. There were one or two squads that would come out the Ack to fight but it was very sparse. Mostly a lot of flying around, listening to the GV's on range voice chatter incessantly. We got tired of hide and seek. FSO was the last thing to hold us in AH but its weekly re-run of fly around for 52 minutes, get in a massive furball over the target and fly home was pretty stale. One of our members found an exciting option and the leadership decided to pursue it.
It boils down to the same thing in both Warbirds and AH. The game was set up to provide options to accomplish major game objectives without actively pursuing combat with other human players. That attracts a certain personality type and that eventually changes the character of the player base as a whole.
Personally, I am regularly flying DCS, IL2 and WT SB in VR. They each hold their strong points and one of those holds our attention enough to fly a couple hours every day (after nearly 25 years flying online AND real world flying careers).
The one thing missing is massively multiplayer persistent arena airplanes only. I (we) miss the camaraderie of the original concept. A persistent world of air combat.
We have found a place where people fly and fight with little hide and seek (there are folks who NOE Jabo but the maps are small) and ZERO human GV's.
What we don't have and apparently doesn't exist is what Warbirds and Aces High originally were. MMO air combat in a persistent arena. Every persistent arena title has tried to do "combined" operations on the theory that more people is better.
It doesn't work. That should be obvious to everyone by now but somehow it isn't. The personality type that chooses to play air clashes with the type that chooses ground in a game and it is impossible to create a game that pleases both groups. The ground type is undoubtedly a larger group, much larger for a host of reasons so I certainly understand the business reason for pursuing them. However; they do not want to be bombed and strafed into oblivion so they want to be able to avoid/hide from airplanes. Once that idea of game play is established, the end is very predictable.
If AH were to suddenly decide to remove the human GV option and incentivize human versus human aerial combat, I would be among the first to re-subscribe. That is very likely impossible from a business perspective as it would kill a very large portion of the current subscriber rolls and require at least a year commitment to attract the air combat players into the game.
Anyway, my opinion, FWIW
:salute :bolt:
Your assumption that eliminating GV players will then somehow attract air players willing to play victim to your horde (aka 475FG) is questionable.
MH
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When I played on Monday, bomber icons showed up inside of an undestroyed dar circle.
Yes, I just meant version two of the experiment where bombers showed as fighters.
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Not to mention he's just wrong . Eliminating the gv aspect will just drive subs away ..I gv and fly I much rather have a shooting at me with a with than him in WoT because the gv aspect was taking away.. You cannot force a gver into plane by eliminating the gv aspect. .. But that's just my opinion from someone still in the game
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If AH were to suddenly decide to remove the human GV option and incentivize human versus human aerial combat, I would be among the first to re-subscribe. That is very likely impossible from a business perspective as it would kill a very large portion of the current subscriber rolls and require at least a year commitment to attract the air combat players into the game.
Anyway, my opinion, FWIW
:salute :bolt:
Ahhh...no. Removing the humanized GV option you may as well close the doors. If you want a Fighter Only based game then you have other options out there. AH has and will hopefully always continue to be an all inclusive MMO WWII based - and that includes air, land, and sea.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.
- Spock
:lol
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I am inclined to agree with Dawger. My preference is for air to air combat. I spent 2 years in ww2ol and whilst it was ok I really wanted good air fighting.
I do understand the attraction of the GV aspect and the thought of combined ops is exciting but it simply does not work in AH. I am sure with more numbers or smaller maps it might but as it is now it just splits players into 2 camps.
For me the worst part of the current game is the fact that the first action for many players is to jump into a field gun or wirble as the very first line of defence. Sure, it is effective but it is also boring from an air to air perspective.
HiTech can do little about that though as it is a players choice. The more it happens the less fun the game is for me, the less time I spend in it and eventually I will look elsewhere.
I was working in the period of the trial but from from reading the boards even the trial has split the community in half. Some thought it was great as they flew headlong into to a mass of fighters and others hated it as it took away their ability to hide n sneak.
You know you have a problem when players use the all seeing radar to actively avoid combat.
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Or to actively seek combat fess :devil
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I am inclined to agree with Dawger. My preference is for air to air combat. I spent 2 years in ww2ol and whilst it was ok I really wanted good air fighting.
I do understand the attraction of the GV aspect and the thought of combined ops is exciting but it simply does not work in AH. I am sure with more numbers or smaller maps it might but as it is now it just splits players into 2 camps.
For me the worst part of the current game is the fact that the first action for many players is to jump into a field gun or wirble as the very first line of defence. Sure, it is effective but it is also boring from an air to air perspective.
HiTech can do little about that though as it is a players choice. The more it happens the less fun the game is for me, the less time I spend in it and eventually I will look elsewhere.
Or they use the stupid 88 to pot at guys in a 1 v 1 totally ruining the fight. Manned guns should be restricted when numbers are low. Get in a plane or log out.
I was working in the period of the trial but from from reading the boards even the trial has split the community in half. Some thought it was great as they flew headlong into to a mass of fighters and others hated it as it took away their ability to hide n sneak.
You know you have a problem when players use the all seeing radar to actively avoid combat.
You got that right.
I never had so much fun as during the radar test. Now I am back to chasing dar bar ghosts... :bhead
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Or to actively seek combat fess :devil
He was talking about the PROBLEM. Actively seeking combat is not a problem. The *LACK* of it is a problem.
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Fess, you have a valid point, and hard pressed to find an argument there :uhoh BUT...I believe its all in the eye of the beholder(or WHEN you found the game). When I found AH it WAS the AIR that hooked me. The OVERALL WAR concept SET THE HOOK(as by that time GVs and other non air aspects had already been added). It wasnt a Circle hook either, was an old school, deep in the gullet hook up. It didnt talke very long to REALIZE...AIR COMBAT was going to be a work in progress. No arcade flying with auto targeting weapons...I got my butt shot off..BUT I LOVED IT. Everyone had ALL the same tools at their disposal. No power ups or other gaming stuff, so I HAD AN opportunity to change my fate in that aspect...BUT with the whole WAR aspect, it gave me a chance to be AN ACTUAL BENEFIT to the war effort. To this day, I will jump in a WIRB at first, I am better at making a defence in this way, more productive. Sure I can jump in a plane and get picked,over and over...and thats fine too.It doesnt however do much to MAKE a DIFFERENCE in the situation(true running attackers out of ammo works :uhoh) but it doesnt give a feeling of accomplishment. It seems to me, than some of you FIGHTER guys, and I mean that with the UPMOST of RESPECT justt see it differently. In my opinion, and I could be wrong.... most WW2 Fighter Gods did more than just fly around looking for distracted enemies to jump IN THE AIR. True for some, THAT was their mission...but it wasnt like what you guys like to do in here. Most didnt have One v ONE fights between areas of operations(we have DA/Matchplay for this) our MELEE arena is a Full Aspect Combat simulator. Those of us that play this way understand this...I love to Dogfight,when its available...I love just flying around too. So to find more action in the AIR...I learned how to be EFFECTIVE Dive Bombing. Its still AIR and keeps me involved in the WAR EFFORT at the same time. I play EVERYDAY(I am lucky in that freedom) and its the OPTION to do whatever I feel like doing that keeps me playing. Some days my coordination/motor skills are having issues-I will GV. Some days I just want to kill-up a heavy Spit or Ki-84 and look for Reds. Some days all I want to do is set in a wirb and play ATC at attacked fields. I love it all, and jjust about everyone who plays this game. So its different in my experiences...not necessarily a Camp1 v Camp2 type of thing :rock Folk will always avoid combat...IF that avenue is supplied. We just have a difference of what AVOIDING is. I would up a plane 100% in a deffence situation...IF I HAD A CHANCE. That isnt the case. Yes I could up from back base...BUT I FEEL NEEDED at the base being attacked, so see...its not avoiding, its wanting to make a difference. Up auto gun performance OVER BASE...not to stop attack but to ALLOW a deffense. Sure some will look at ACK to rescue them, thats WHY IT IS THERE. ^6 to 1 in a dffensive situation, I understand it. I have no problem with it either...I can wait till they come out. Its up to the individual to choose WHERE the attack happens. If you chase,you chase...but the defender is allowed to use defensive measures at hand as well.
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It's all about driving critical mass. Numbers beget numbers.
If all-seeing radar when numbers are low generates player interest then an increase in players will cause the all-seeing radar to turn off and everyone can get back to hiding again.
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It's all about driving critical mass. Numbers beget numbers.
If all-seeing radar when numbers are low generates player interest then an increase in players will cause the all-seeing radar to turn off and everyone can get back to hiding again.
Except I think that's backwards. I think most of the people with the biggest problems with all seeing dar's playstyle is more prevalent when numbers are lower than when they're higher.
Wiley.
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I totally agree 1stpar3, it is very much a matter of perspective. The guys that just want fighter action seem to get fewer by the day. I was drawn to the game after Fighter Ace died because I wanted to be a virtual WW2 Fighter pilot.
I just feel my days here are numbered because there is less of that type of action.
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He was talking about the PROBLEM. Actively seeking combat is not a problem. The *LACK* of it is a problem.
I'm aware but he stated people use the all radar to actively avoid combat I was stating others use the all radar to actively seek combat... People avoiding combat in a combat game is nothing new since I've been playing and as far as manned guns on base... Nothing says kiss my bellybutton to vulchers like an 88mm to the face or a 37mm cutting them in half if you decided to vulch aircraft expect to be plucked out of the sky by manned gun after all that's what they are there for
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I understand the wish for air combat in the old style that gradually lost popularity towards the end of AH2. Since we had a radar test for two weeks that explored player response to seeing everything and a variation on the theme. Hitech didn't test raising the minimum to 200ft to see if it would be an aid to our low numbers in taking the risk of assaulting feilds with planes. While making themselves exposed to air combat at least near the ground around the target field.
We know that being exposed on radar does not promote the old style of air combat. We watched as a fighter icon would point it's nose towards another fighter icon and that player would veer away on radar over two weeks of testing. That wanting to mano-E-mano hunt for competitors was another era and another kind of player with a small number of that kind of player still with our game. There is no longer a build it and they will come back that can be promised around man to man fighter combat. You want combat, what you have now is reminiscent of who populated all the NOE missions to avoid exposure and being killed a few seconds after a merge with players like FESS. Back then those players were harvested as a byproduct of their play style which helped them feel they had a chance to accomplish something besides be fodder for the game's Sharks. Most of them had and have no interest in becoming a FESS or back then a muppet.
So you can waste time in here calling them cowards while elevating your selves to demigod fighter combat hero or, you can figure out what makes them really up and expose themselves to being shot down by the air combat hero's of today. As always so far the answers the air combat hero's come up with is "they" are cowards and killing this game and we are hero's becasue we can define what is wrong with them that makes us unhappy. But, you can't define what will get them into the air and expose themselves to getting shot be the hero's.
When the recent radar test was over and everything back to normal, a squad ran some missions doing things like attacking a field in all IL2. It was fun defending against and if the radar minimum had been 200ft, they would have done a lot more damage before the first defenders got off the ground. With 200ft as the radar minimum, a 110 raid would have dropped the town and maybe taken that field. Last night my squad made the decision 65ft was not worth trying to assault a field in a mountainous area becasue no one would have been able to keep 65ft given the terrain. When that terrain was first introduced, 200ft was the minimum and NOE assaults worked out very well becasue of the surprise factor. And why so many none air combat players flew those missions.
The radar minimum at 65ft is why so many players won't bother and don't up much anymore. So what if NOE missions would then proliferate at 200ft minimum. Half the time they got found out by exposing them selves, CV radar, greifers with a second account laptop, greifers PMing friends in the other country. But, enough got through keeping the none air combat players in airplanes as potential targets becasue "they" liked the odds for their risk. Other wise they will not up for FESS and company just to make FESS and company happy about this game. They will continue to man field guns and wirbles becasue that is about how much they care for that one facet of this game. Most players in the MA are not interested in ACM and won't get involved with any depth of interest. They will accept it as a risk to attacking a field as part of a group or as part of a group in a comfortable furball from their perspective. I'm sure many here can remember when hundreds of players would not be visible on a 20x20 map becasue they were NOE avoiding people like the muppets. But, they came back year after year and filled the MA.
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:aok 100%. In my early days, it was those NOE missions that hooked me. Also led me to become EFFECTIVE at dive bombing. It was always interesting to see who would kiss a tree or teabag the wrong Dolphin :devil Atleast 1 laugh a mission...was FUN :rock
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I'm aware but he stated people use the all radar to actively avoid combat I was stating others use the all radar to actively seek combat... People avoiding combat in a combat game is nothing new since I've been playing and as far as manned guns on base... Nothing says kiss my bellybutton to vulchers like an 88mm to the face or a 37mm cutting them in half if you decided to vulch aircraft expect to be plucked out of the sky by manned gun after all that's what they are there for
3/4 of the people in here at least are using it to avoid combat. The survey will tell you what the number likely is. Combine the two vote totals for the new dar and compare them to the vote for the old way. I bet it's 3:1.
Vulchers? I'm in a 1 v 1 out over the water and getting potted by an 88. That's stupid.
Put an ENY on the ack guns. When numbers are <30 you can't use one.
I totally agree 1stpar3, it is very much a matter of perspective. The guys that just want fighter action seem to get fewer by the day. I was drawn to the game after Fighter Ace died because I wanted to be a virtual WW2 Fighter pilot.
I just feel my days here are numbered because there is less of that type of action.
This is unfortunate, but there will be a lot of people going with you.
The fact is, if I had not already invested ten years in this game I'd be gone, too. When you log into an arena and chase ghosts it is really boring as a vet. For a new player....? Impossible.
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Except I think that's backwards. I think most of the people with the biggest problems with all seeing dar's playstyle is more prevalent when numbers are lower than when they're higher.
Wiley.
New people cannot find a fight. If they cannot find a fight they will not stay long enough to subscribe. Thus you will have no influx of new players, just a steady decline of the old ones.
Hitech was on the right track until the blackmail whiner brigade went after him and threatened his business. That's how I see it.
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3/4 of the people in here at least are using it to avoid combat. The survey will tell you what the number likely is. Combine the two vote totals for the new dar and compare them to the vote for the old way. I bet it's 3:1.
Vulchers? I'm in a 1 v 1 out over the water and getting potted by an 88. That's stupid.
Put an ENY on the ack guns. When numbers are <30 you can't use one.
This is unfortunate, but there will be a lot of people going with you.
The fact is, if I had not already invested ten years in this game I'd be gone, too. When you log into an arena and chase ghosts it is really boring as a vet. For a new player....? Impossible.
disagree about ack guns .. Maybe not you but numbers were less than 30 when 5 nits vulched me while trying to take off.. it would be one thing if they were in a base take action but they weren't... Sure I could up from a nearby base and have a 5v1 I chose to send 5 nits to tower via 37mm manned gun.. If are close enough to get manned gun then you're in enemy territory
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Or they use the stupid 88 to pot at guys in a 1 v 1 totally ruining the fight. Manned guns should be restricted when numbers are low. Get in a plane or log out.
You got that right.
I never had so much fun as during the radar test. Now I am back to chasing dar bar ghosts... :bhead
:huh Dont doubt you...I HAVE RARELY had this happen. I get shot at YES...CV Auto ack or Strat....but player 88? I can count on 1 hand howmany times I get killed by manned 88's. Its usually Chuikov and I am deacking, and usually with in 2k. If I had this happen on a regular basis :uhoh YES, I WOULD BE PO, but I havent had this issue. I only even witness it happening maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Its ALWAYS after a whole lot of misses, I tend to pull or push away when they get close. True, in a fight that gets hard to do...it just doesnt happen to me enough to be a big issue :uhoh
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:huh Dont doubt you...I HAVE RARELY had this happen. I get shot at YES...CV Auto ack or Strat....but player 88? I can count on 1 hand howmany times I get killed by manned 88's. Its usually Chuikov and I am deacking, and usually with in 2k. If I had this happen on a regular basis :uhoh YES, I WOULD BE PO, but I havent had this issue. I only even witness it happening maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Its ALWAYS after a whole lot of misses, I tend to pull or push away when they get close. True, in a fight that gets hard to do...it just doesnt happen to me enough to be a big issue :uhoh
Some of these guys have the bogus fake gunsights and are snipers in that thing.
The Mustang in particular is tinfoil for 88s. I get shredded regularly from max range. It's obnoxious and really should be dealt with.
If the 88s can kill friendlies, too then bring them on. Or killshooter at least. It's stupid that someone can grief other people in that thing with zero penalty. No consequences. Not a bit of risk to them or anyone else. One-way streets are bad mechanics IMO.
Again, just how I see it.
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I totally agree 1stpar3, it is very much a matter of perspective. The guys that just want fighter action seem to get fewer by the day. I was drawn to the game after Fighter Ace died because I wanted to be a virtual WW2 Fighter pilot.
I just feel my days here are numbered because there is less of that type of action.
I came over from Fighter Ace not long after AH started. Some of the folks I flew with were checking AH out and told me about it. Been here ever since.
I was Qwikthink (might have been shortened) over there and flew for some time.
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Some of these guys have the bogus fake gunsights and are snipers in that thing.
The Mustang in particular is tinfoil for 88s. I get shredded regularly from max range. It's obnoxious and really should be dealt with.
If the 88s can kill friendlies, too then bring them on. Or killshooter at least. It's stupid that someone can grief other people in that thing with zero penalty. No consequences. Not a bit of risk to them or anyone else. One-way streets are bad mechanics IMO.
Again, just how I see it.
I can see killshooter option for manned gun.. Currently I get frequent you have shot yourself on the 88mm with no damaged to self.. Maybe if 88mm hits friendly gun blows up with kill awarded to nearest enemy con within 12k since that's the range on the 88? Then again I use 88mm for vulchers not to avoid multiple cons
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I can see killshooter option for manned gun.. Currently I get frequent you have shot yourself on the 88mm with no damaged to self.. Maybe if 88mm hits friendly gun blows up with kill awarded to nearest enemy con within 12k since that's the range on the 88? Then again I use 88mm for vulchers not to avoid multiple cons
Do 88mm drivers get more women?
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Do 88mm drivers get more women?
lol of course we do.... We are good with our fingers because unlike Navy guns we don't have proximity fuses
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lol of course we do.... We are good with our fingers because unlike Navy guns we don't have proximity fuses
Girls must like those that miss a lot. SChwing
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Girls must like those that miss a lot. SChwing
LMAO I always hit what I'm aiming at.... Eventually...I have stamina
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Do 88mm drivers get more women?
NOPE :rofl...PUT...THE'...MIC, DOWN. Nailed it :rock Maybe Vraciu could try...may be why he is so testy...what he does isnt working in that department :uhoh His reputation is out there now...for a series of high speed passes on 3 air control towers and ONE Admirals Daughter :x So what, he can fly inverted through a bomber hanger....dont impress me much. Oh you said WOMEN :devil
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I can see killshooter option for manned gun.. Currently I get frequent you have shot yourself on the 88mm with no damaged to self.. Maybe if 88mm hits friendly gun blows up with kill awarded to nearest enemy con within 12k since that's the range on the 88? Then again I use 88mm for vulchers not to avoid multiple cons
That's a thought.
And again, you are like Fess. You don't run from fights. But that's the exception not the rule now.
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New people cannot find a fight.
Where precisely is that theory coming from? I've only seen people speculating that's the reason for the dar changes.
Wiley.
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Where precisely is that theory coming from? I've only seen people speculating that's the reason for the dar changes.
Wiley.
The tests are new..... new folks are new. New things are new... who knew?
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That's a thought.
And again, you are like Fess. You don't run from fights. But that's the exception not the rule now.
love fighting like you and fess ... The one thing about manned guns that I feel must be addressed is the a anonymous of being in a manned gun... If you are in a manned gun and someone takes it out it should be a kill that gets awarded to the one that took it out manned guns are just that... Manned if no one is in them they don't fire therefore it should count as a death treated as such.. And yes I know a pilot with his .45 can take out a 17lbr I've done it.. Still dead crew dead gun... Also Fifi should be able to land kills it has rear gun .. Even c47 lands kills and it doesn't... Maybe wish list thing
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So you can waste time in here calling them cowards while elevating your selves to demigod fighter combat hero or, you can figure out what makes them really up and expose themselves to being shot down by the air combat hero's of today. As always so far the answers the air combat hero's come up with is "they" are cowards and killing this game and we are hero's becasue we can define what is wrong with them that makes us unhappy. But, you can't define what will get them into the air and expose themselves to getting shot be the hero's.
Not sure I was calling them cowards nor putting myself up on a pedestal.
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Where precisely is that theory coming from? I've only seen people speculating that's the reason for the dar changes.
Wiley.
Interpolation. Instinct. Experience guided by intellect and vice versa.
*I* cannot find a fight for a large part of the time each day. There's no way in hell a noob will. Ten minutes and out. They are NOT seeing activity and are saying, "No thanks."
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love fighting like you and fess ...
Ditto to you. I am sure he feels the same way.
The one thing about manned guns that I feel must be addressed is the a anonymous of being in a manned gun... If you are in a manned gun and someone takes it out it should be a kill that gets awarded to the one that took it out manned guns are just that... Manned if no one is in them they don't fire therefore it should count as a death treated as such.. And yes I know a pilot with his .45 can take out a 17lbr I've done it.. Still dead crew dead gun... Also Fifi should be able to land kills it has rear gun .. Even c47 lands kills and it doesn't... Maybe wish list thing
Agree on the manned gun kill thing. It's a no-risk/all-reward proposition.
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*I* cannot find a fight for a large part of the time each day. There's no way in hell a noob will. Ten minutes and out. They are NOT seeing activity and are saying, "No thanks."
There's two things wrong here:
1) What makes you assume that noob are looking for "fights"? Is there any kind of advertisement somewhere along the lines of ... "join AH to find fair 1vs1 fights"? The website take about the war etc., and war isn't where you would find the kind of fights you are looking for in here.
2) Assuming noob would indeed look for fights and then find them. Would dieing in two turns make a noob more likely to subscribe than not finding a fight, but at leat getting a feeling of some kind of accomplishment carrying out whatever else is needed to contribute to the war?
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There's two things wrong here:
1) What makes you assume that noob are looking for "fights"? Is there any kind of advertisement somewhere along the lines of ... "join AH to find fair 1vs1 fights"? The website take about the war etc., and war isn't where you would find the kind of fights you are looking for in here.
Well this is a combat game. Safe to say a new player is looking to some sort of fight. Otherwise they'd be playing a game not centered around war machines.
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hehe I laded P-51 kills in a goon. They jumped me on the deck. I just did not give up. They both ended up augering after an extended fight.
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Interpolation. Instinct. Experience guided by intellect and vice versa.
...So it's your baseless belief. That's fine, but you're throwing it around like it's HT's gospel.
Wiley.
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There's two things wrong here:
1) What makes you assume that noob are looking for "fights"? Is there any kind of advertisement somewhere along the lines of ... "join AH to find fair 1vs1 fights"? The website take about the war etc., and war isn't where you would find the kind of fights you are looking for in here.
This game is all about fights! Fighting 1 vs 1 is only a small part of it. Fighting to capture a base, fighting to repel a tank assault, fighting to get thru a cap to drop your bombs on a town/base/depot. If you arent here to fight, what the hell are you doing?
2) Assuming noob would indeed look for fights and then find them. Would dieing in two turns make a noob more likely to subscribe than not finding a fight, but at leat getting a feeling of some kind of accomplishment carrying out whatever else is needed to contribute to the war?
Dying in two turns was an improvement for me. It made me want to get to 3 turns, or get a few hits in before I died, getting that first REAL kill was something I'll never forget (was in an F6F if you can believe that). Again, if you dont want to fight what the hell are you doing here?
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Fugi is always a fun fight if you can avoid his friends..I don't get it sometimes.. The one thing he doesn't need is help
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Fugi is always a fun fight if you can avoid his friends..I don't get it sometimes.. The one thing he doesn't need is help
Well when you join a squad ya kinda end up flying with them :devil
Always fun fights with you Scott! <S>
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Well when you join a squad ya kinda end up flying with them :devil
Always fun fights with you Scott! <S>
lol ya fugi my squad has 2 active members and we rarely fly at the same time thus my brew turn and burn method
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Well this is a combat game. Safe to say a new player is looking to some sort of fight. Otherwise they'd be playing a game not centered around war machines.
^^^^^What he said.
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...So it's your baseless belief. That's fine, but you're throwing it around like it's HT's gospel.
Wiley.
Baseless? Hardly. It's pretty darned obvious frankly.
No fights = boring. Boring = quit. Simple.
You join a game like this for action. When you look at a map that appears empty you are not going to stay.
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New people cannot find a fight. If they cannot find a fight they will not stay long enough to subscribe.
(text removed)
You guys keep saying this, but where is the evidence? Do we have polls or exit interviews? No. Saying "it's a combat game" is simplistic; sure it is, but that doesn't mean people can't drop out due to beginners frustration.
As I suggested elsewhere, it's more likely a learning curve issue.
MH
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You guys keep saying this, but where is the evidence? Do we have polls or exit interviews? No. Saying "it's a combat game" is simplistic; sure it is, but that doesn't mean people can't drop out due to beginners frustration.
As I suggested elsewhere, it's more likely a learning curve issue.
MH
been a while since I seen that name in lights.. You still playing Deacon?
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You guys keep saying this, but where is the evidence? Do we have polls or exit interviews? No. Saying "it's a combat game" is simplistic; sure it is, but that doesn't mean people can't drop out due to beginners frustration.
As I suggested elsewhere, it's more likely a learning curve issue.
MH
There has ALWAYS been a learning curve.
Ten minutes does not suggest much regarding a learning curve unless the player is going WTF and quitting without even trying.
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I think it is the strict dress code.
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He was talking about the PROBLEM. Actively seeking combat is not a problem. The *LACK* of it is a problem.
Just for the record, when I jump into my T34/85 at a flashing base, I AM actively seeking combat. You seem to assume if its not "your" type of combat, it doesn't count. With all due respect, that's acting like a spoiled child, "can't have it my way I'll throw a tantrum". :noid
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With all due respect, that's acting like a spoiled child, "can't have it my way I'll throw a tantrum". :noid
With all due respect isn't that EXACTLY what you did when you started this thread?
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I dont think the bardar system we have is really an issue.. it wasnt in back in the prime of this game, even going back to the early days when things were cranking up. The problem is people not here to make those dar bars. Would be kind of cool to see gv dar operate exactly like planes do, maybe a seperate set at the bottom of the sector. You could have a darker colored red and green plane in the plane symbol dar, and have tank symbol in the gv dar to distinguish the two. If the dar the the base is up, the icons for both show, if its down, they dont. On top of all that, harden the dar to 1500 lbs.
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Listen, you either fall in love with the game or you don't. With that comes the time investment this game requires to become good. Any learning curve was overcome quicker with trainers back then that no longer exist.
This is problem #1 and has been for a long time. HTC doesn't care otherwise when the volunteers quit training the company would have stepped and provided trainers. It's just like maps, HTc has left in the hands of the community. Today only 1 player seems to be making maps making into the game.
At the end of the day it's his game and it's dieing ..
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the full darbar is gone why are you all still talking about it?3
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the full darbar is gone why are you all still talking about it?3
That comment makes no sense. Dar bar is dar bar, and wasnt altered at all through these tests. Dot or Icon dar was variable in these tests.
Do you have a problem with people discussing the game?
If you dont have anything constructive to type, why take the time?
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I dont think the bardar system we have is really an issue.. it wasnt in back in the prime of this game, even going back to the early days when things were cranking up. The problem is people not here to make those dar bars. Would be kind of cool to see gv dar operate exactly like planes do, maybe a seperate set at the bottom of the sector. You could have a darker colored red and green plane in the plane symbol dar, and have tank symbol in the gv dar to distinguish the two. If the dar the the base is up, the icons for both show, if its down, they dont. On top of all that, harden the dar to 1500 lbs.
That is the best compromise I have seen! Maybe we could get HT to test this as well? :rock ONLY problem I see with this....CYBRO will ABSOLUTELY OWN the proxy kill stats :rofl Maybe even tie the GV dar to percentage of town that is destroyed? The GV dar as I understand it,simulates Villagers giving action reports? Maybe even look at hardening town objects along side this? That would cut down on the 2 man base sneaks(complained about A LOT) and give more opportunity to get a defense started..just MHO
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No fights = boring. Boring = quit. Simple.
It is not about boring or not. It's about dopamine or not.
Your dopamine release seems to be fueled by kills, not fights. Even boring kills. Proof: Recently you were bragging on 200 about compressing your pony when attacking bombers. It looks like your need for dopamine was taking control over your actions - anything for the kill. Flying an untouchable plane with excessive energy surplus then switching off brain for a quick kill. That doesn't look like looking for a non-boring fight.
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Boring = no dopamine production
Engaging the enemy = dopamine production
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Boring = no dopamine production
Engaging the enemy = dopamine production
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
your leaving out one of the most important variables this game used to offer...
Risk=reward
Time investment was a critical aspect to this game for years. It has been scaled back to such a degree that the risk of time investment is not worth the reward for a lot of elements this game used to offer. I know it's hard for a lot of bbs guys to wrap their mind on that. It's just a cold hard fact. The old argument "you players don't like to engage" is so ignorant it is silly. The only reason a player would avoid the action was due to the large time investment required to accomplish an objective. After many failed attempts players got smart and took the time to insure their investment was protected. The missions of entire squads attacking a target without flashing it was just a small element in a larger scale tactical war simulation.
GV dar is by far an absolute joke and always will be. A better alternative would have been an automated message scroll on country or 200 that told where 4 or more gv's were presently engaged with an opponent or attacking a base.
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With all due respect isn't that EXACTLY what you did when you started this thread?
No, I made a request to be notified when it was over, 1 time. I hardly think that qualifies as a tantrum. :neener: :devil
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Just for the record, when I jump into my T34/85 at a flashing base, I AM actively seeking combat. You seem to assume if its not "your" type of combat, it doesn't count. With all due respect, that's acting like a spoiled child, "can't have it my way I'll throw a tantrum". :noid
Your premise is entirely flawed. People doing their utmost to avoid engaging other players is a problem with numbers at a low level. Some fictional notion of "[my]" type of combat is not germane.
Nice try, Kenny. :salute
With all due respect [Kenai77] isn't that EXACTLY what you did when you started this thread?
#Irony
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It is not about boring or not. It's about dopamine or not.
Your dopamine release seems to be fueled by kills, not fights. Even boring kills. Proof: Recently you were bragging on 200 about compressing your pony when attacking bombers. It looks like your need for dopamine was taking control over your actions - anything for the kill. Flying an untouchable plane with excessive energy surplus then switching off brain for a quick kill. That doesn't look like looking for a non-boring fight.
Bragging? I was laughing my butt off. That wasn't bragging. If I wanted to brag I'd brag about killing four of your bombers for one loss (via collision, oops).
Fights = Dopamine. Kills = Encouragement. Compressing like a dummy from only 12K' = Hilarity.
And yeah, that's why I compressed because I was so shocked to find another con after 35 mins of looking that I just went for it.
So by all means, trash me some more with ad hominems and out-of-context commentary (without having all the details). This is entertaining.
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your leaving out one of the most important variables this game used to offer...
Risk=reward
Time investment was a critical aspect to this game for years. It has been scaled back to such a degree that the risk of time investment is not worth the reward for a lot of elements this game used to offer. I know it's hard for a lot of bbs guys to wrap their mind on that. It's just a cold hard fact. The old argument "you players don't like to engage" is so ignorant it is silly. The only reason a player would avoid the action was due to the large time investment required to accomplish an objective. After many failed attempts players got smart and took the time to insure their investment was protected. The missions of entire squads attacking a target without flashing it was just a small element in a larger scale tactical war simulation.
You're missing the point yourself. Time investment vs reward includes the ability to find a fight (and get kills eventually). I'm actually a much better pilot now than I was even six months ago--in every area. While anecdotal, my K/H have gone steadily down down down. Why? Because it is harder than ever to find bad guys. During the radar experiment that trend reversed. Why? Because the time invested vs. reward ratio was dramatically improved.
Now we are back to chasing ghosts. The Nits and the Bish are purse swinging on the other side of the map. I wind up having to load up DTs and fly four or five sectors to attack bad guys and get ganged by BOTH sides. During the radar test fights were easy to find, action was concentrated, and people were actually doing things--like bomber missions with escorts--we haven't seen in years.
I love this game as much as anyone, even though it frustrates the heck out of me. It's a great game. But even I, an AH3 addict, think about walking away sometimes. A new player will never take the time to get to this point. They're not going to understand it. They're not going to find action. They're not going to stay. Hitech makes a good faith effort to see if this dynamic can be addressed and everyone loses their minds.
"Combat? You want me to do combat in a combat game???? NOOOO-OOOOOOO!!!!!!"
GV dar is by far an absolute joke and always will be. A better alternative would have been an automated message scroll on country or 200 that told where 4 or more gv's were presently engaged with an opponent or attacking a base.
GV Sentry Bars are brilliant. The whining about this is getting silly. Tanks cannot operate with impunity. They're loud. They leave tracks. People hear them and see them. You guys want to be invisible like Wonder Woman's jet.
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Wait a minute....
You mean to tell me:
- If I'm not a fighter jock looking for a fight / can't find a fight the game is doomed?
- If I am a GV'er I am avoiding fighting by hiding under the canopy of trees to avoid fights...even though I might be going after another GV that has spawned in...
- If I'm a bomber pilot avoiding radar rings I'm avoiding a fight...yet I'm trying to achieve a war effort goal of getting to a specific target...
- If we are doing a stealth mission to capture a base we are avoiding combat?
Please...don't be so insulting. Every player plays the game to his / her perspective of what they enjoy doing within the game. This is NOT a fighter sim...it is NOT a tank game...it is NOT a bombers only game...it's a WWII simulation "WAR GAME" and that includes ALL aspects of war. Who are any of you to define that a player is "avoiding combat"? Every player has a different way to play the game and get what they want out of it. If you are a fighter jock only then you need to respect that not everyone else is or wants to be. If you are a bomber you have to respect that you will get chased down by fighter jocks looking to take you out. If you are a GV'er and spawn in to a base you need to expect that you will get bomb****ed or sniped by another tank.
The game / maps have been setup to win a war. Not everyone has that mindset, but that is how the game has been setup from the beginning. If you are not of that mindset that's fine - then find what you enjoy within the game and if it is enough to keep you involved in the game then great. If not, then the game simply is not for you anymore. But don't sit here and try and tell people that they are playing the game wrong or avoiding combat. That's just plain wrong.
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Wait a minute....
You mean to tell me:
- If I'm not a fighter jock looking for a fight / can't find a fight the game is doomed?
- If I am a GV'er I am avoiding fighting by hiding under the canopy of trees to avoid fights...even though I might be going after another GV that has spawned in...
- If I'm a bomber pilot avoiding radar rings I'm avoiding a fight...yet I'm trying to achieve a war effort goal of getting to a specific target...
- If we are doing a stealth mission to capture a base we are avoiding combat?
Please...don't be so insulting. Every player plays the game to his / her perspective of what they enjoy doing within the game. This is NOT a fighter sim...it is NOT a tank game...it is NOT a bombers only game...it's a WWII simulation "WAR GAME" and that includes ALL aspects of war. Who are any of you to define that a player is "avoiding combat"? Every player has a different way to play the game and get what they want out of it. If you are a fighter jock only then you need to respect that not everyone else is or wants to be. If you are a bomber you have to respect that you will get chased down by fighter jocks looking to take you out. If you are a GV'er and spawn in to a base you need to expect that you will get bomb****ed or sniped by another tank.
The game / maps have been setup to win a war. Not everyone has that mindset, but that is how the game has been setup from the beginning. If you are not of that mindset that's fine - then find what you enjoy within the game and if it is enough to keep you involved in the game then great. If not, then the game simply is not for you anymore. But don't sit here and try and tell people that they are playing the game wrong or avoiding combat. That's just plain wrong.
All they care about now is preserving the Furball and what ever interferes with that gets tweaked to the point it's not fun anymore....I feel your pain my brother...sadly HiTech hasn't
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All they care about now is preserving the Furball and what ever interferes with that gets tweaked to the point it's not fun anymore....I feel your pain my brother...sadly HiTech hasn't
This game is about the furball--or at least aerial *COMBAT*. It didn't start as a tank game for people to hide and never do battle. Aces *HIGH*.
ACES. Dogfighters. BUFF hunters.
HIGH. Flying, not on the ground or in a manned gun.
You've run off most of the furballers you detest so much. How's that working for you?
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This game is about the furball--or at least aerial *COMBAT*. It didn't start as a tank game for people to hide and never do battle. Aces *HIGH*.
ACES. Dogfighters. BUFF hunters.
HIGH. Flying, not on the ground or in a manned gun.
You've run off most of the furballers you detest so much. How's that working for you?
oh V please tell me you didn't go to that Aces high not Aces low thing :bhead lol it's about War with objectives like taking base and winning the war .. Every tool in the game has its purpose and counter part... The furball is just a by product of the war.. However for some that's all they are interested in which is all up to them it's their quarter.. For me I like all parts of the game.. Except for bombers I suk at WF town
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oh V please tell me you didn't go to that Aces high not Aces low thing :bhead lol
Okay, I won't. :P
it's about War with objectives like taking base and winning the war .. Every tool in the game has its purpose and counter part
It's also a game requiring balance. The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders. That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.
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Okay, I won't. :P
It's also a game requiring balance. The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders. That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.
at that point we agree I have noticed more"extending" than normal I guess
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Okay, I won't. :P
It's also a game requiring balance. The balance has shifted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over in the direction of the combat avoiders. That's not good for the game, the players, or the business behind it all.
Odd..........but I have never killed you in a vehicle...so who was avoiding the ground combat.. And your right the game is out of balance, you fly guys cry when you have to stop fur balling and look for GV's in the abundance of trees that were meant to slow GV's down. There used to be plenty of folks who did not do aerial combat that have left, just to feed your fun, we are going to have to agree to disagree on what is balanced.
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Odd..........but I have never killed you in a vehicle...so who was avoiding the ground combat..
Ground combat is not why I am here. No way. No how. NEVER. If this game gets to the point where all that is left are you GVers hiding in the trees I'll be gone. GVs aren't even worth bombing.
I don't even know who you are, so obviously I've never seen you in a fighter.
And your right the game is out of balance, you fly guys cry when you have to stop fur balling and look for GV's in the abundance of trees that were meant to slow GV's down. There used to be plenty of folks who did not do aerial combat that have left, just to feed your fun, we are going to have to agree to disagree on what is balanced.
I don't look for GVs any more. I gave up on that long ago. It is the biggest waste of time in the game at this point.
You guys like to play with yourselves. (No, not that way.) Knock yourselves out. You're well on your way to getting your wish I guess...
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This game in terms of subscriptions cannot survive forcing customers to do what they do not see as a good risk\reward for them selves. They will find another game like the average Joe customers did after NOE was severely curtailed nine years ago to "force" them to fight I suppose the small numbers of air combat only fans. For eight years up to 2009 Hitech allowed the game to evolve away from an "air combat only" game becasue that is not a growth industry for a simulation like this to stay solvent. As the last nine years have shown, hoards of air combat only freaks didn't fill in the numbers as the average Joe customers left the game. And many of the resident air combat only players left with the average Joes becasue none of them really want to spend all their time fighting other sharks. They wanted occasional run in's with them while harvesting the clueless Joes claiming ch200 bragging rights. When there were hundreds of skill less average Joes there was constant action and target rich environments.
Today our average Joes have been conditioned to be super avoiders, becasue doing anything that shows up on radar, ends up with a small hoard of people stomping them for their trouble. It amazes me we have a core membership of average Joes still paying Hitech for the privilege of getting their teeth kicked in. They don't want to be ACM nuts, they don't want to be panzer generals, and they don't want to do more than than spend a few hours pushing a button. But, they pay Hitech $14.95 to keep the doors open.
NOE (200ft minimum) up till nine years ago grew the population of average Joes becasue they could accomplish something meaningful to their level of skill and risk tolerance. Once NOE was taken away, look at how all the grand missions dried up for all those large missions squads. There were more average Joes than ACM fans logging in for the missions and they were growing this game with their numbers.
This game like it or not in the MA is capture the flag using toys land\sea\air. It evolved that way becasue of who was paying money to play it up to 2009. Today, the MA is mostly stalled field captures with bored customers getting picked by air combat greifers. How many average Joe customers really believe they will capture a field opposed to they are going to another location to fail? Give them back NOE and let the average paying customer feel good about himself and this game again. We have had the last 9 years of "what" to make them feel good about themselves for their $14.95? The resident gurus of ACM telling them constantly they suck, are cowards, and are killing this game by avoiding combat with real Aces High men? When they had NOE for 8 years until 2009, they were willing to take their chances every day becasue there was also the chance they would achieve their objective. Today, even flying in a group at 30k gets you killed by the ACM sharks. What is the point if that is all you can expect for your $14.95?
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If what you are saying is true then these folks can save themselves a lot of money and trouble by bombing undefended targets in offline mode.
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I think at this point HTC is going to have to decide on what there game is going to be and then go with it. Stumbling on as it is now is slowly killing the game. If its going to be a combat game set it up where people are forced into combat. If it is going to be an arcade game with zero basis in WWII, then make it so.
When I started playing this game it was an open concept, but we had an arena full of like minded players. We all wanted to pretend to be in WWII. Now WWII is so far from most peoples minds in this game it isnt funny.
Decide what you want the game to be and get it over with. Enough flopping around in the middle of the road.
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When I started playing this game it was an open concept, but we had an arena full of like minded players. We all wanted to pretend to be in WWII.
Heh. Good observation. Unintended consequences.
In 2001 AH was a fighter game. There were a few dedicated bomber people, but the focus was fighter v fighter combat, and most of us instinctively understood that and wanted that. (GVs were something you did occasionally, just to see what it was like.) When AW died and I moved here, I vividly remember thinking that the win-the-war concept might generate conduct that "the old crowd" would not approve. And so it did. Now, all these years later, AH is pretty close to what WWII Online was aiming at: A WWII simulation, not emphasizing any one aspect thereof. The old crowd thinned out, and the replacements were people more interested in other features of the game. That's bound to discourage members of the old crowd, and we are nothing if not vociferous about it. But we really shouldn't be complaining that the game has taken on a broader appeal. In a way, it's a measure of HTC's foresight.
- oldman
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Diversification has its perils. If Whataburger decided to make pizzas or bicycles well...
History is littered with the carcasses of businesses that didn’t stick to their core expertise.
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You're missing the point yourself. Time investment vs reward includes the ability to find a fight (and get kills eventually). I'm actually a much better pilot now than I was even six months ago--in every area. While anecdotal, my K/H have gone steadily down down down. Why? Because it is harder than ever to find bad guys. During the radar experiment that trend reversed. Why? Because the time invested vs. reward ratio was dramatically improved.
Now we are back to chasing ghosts. The Nits and the Bish are purse swinging on the other side of the map. I wind up having to load up DTs and fly four or five sectors to attack bad guys and get ganged by BOTH sides. During the radar test fights were easy to find, action was concentrated, and people were actually doing things--like bomber missions with escorts--we haven't seen in years.
I love this game as much as anyone, even though it frustrates the heck out of me. It's a great game. But even I, an AH3 addict, think about walking away sometimes. A new player will never take the time to get to this point. They're not going to understand it. They're not going to find action. They're not going to stay. Hitech makes a good faith effort to see if this dynamic can be addressed and everyone loses their minds.
"Combat? You want me to do combat in a combat game???? NOOOO-OOOOOOO!!!!!!"
GV Sentry Bars are brilliant. The whining about this is getting silly. Tanks cannot operate with impunity. They're loud. They leave tracks. People hear them and see them. You guys want to be invisible like Wonder Woman's jet.
for someone who only flies ponies and rarely engaged when i played without full advantage you speak from a dark and very creepy corner....
You never ran troops, you never resupped a base, town or strats, I never saw you in buffs or a tank.
Yet, i always respected your ability ina fighter bird. I havent missed the point, you kust want a DA experience in the MA whenever you log in. At the end of the day I dont play, you do.
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All they care about now is preserving the Furball and what ever interferes with that gets tweaked to the point it's not fun anymore....I feel your pain my brother...sadly HiTech hasn't
ROTFLMAO
Seriously dundee. I have not said much on your post but you really make me laugh a lot.
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for someone who only flies ponies and rarely engaged when i played without full advantage you speak from a dark and very creepy corner....
When did you play? I think you’re suffering from selective memory syndrome. In any event, I no longer fly a Mustang at 100% fuel which has made me ten times better and more aggressive—it doesn’t turn like the Titanic now.
You never ran troops, you never resupped a base, town or strats, I never saw you in buffs or a tank.
Those things bore me to tears. Thankfully in my squadron others enjoyed those things leaving me to fly fighters.
Yet, i always respected your ability ina fighter bird. I havent missed the point, you kust want a DA experience in the MA whenever you log in. At the end of the day I dont play, you do.
I hate the DA. I go there because it’s a way to practice for the MA...
The dynamics of the two simply cannot be compared. I like the randomness and chance of the MA, dealing with different situations, etc. DA is practice. MA is the big game. Everyone knows this.
Kind regards. I appreciate the compliment. :salute
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If what you are saying is true then these folks can save themselves a lot of money and trouble by bombing undefended targets in offline mode.
It's folks with attitude like that are actually killing this game you know that.............
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It's folks with attitude like that are actually killing this game you know that.............
It’s not an attitude, it’s an observation. If people want to avoid combat there are better ways to do that than playing in a combat game.
I think at this point HTC is going to have to decide on what there game is going to be and then go with it. Stumbling on as it is now is slowly killing the game. If its going to be a combat game set it up where people are forced into combat. If it is going to be an arcade game with zero basis in WWII, then make it so.
When I started playing this game it was an open concept, but we had an arena full of like minded players. We all wanted to pretend to be in WWII. Now WWII is so far from most peoples minds in this game it isnt funny.
Decide what you want the game to be and get it over with. Enough flopping around in the middle of the road.
This statement sums up the situation pretty darned well. Straddling the line means you get hit from both directions. :salute
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It's not an attitude, it's an observation. If people want to avoid combat there are better ways to do that than playing in a combat game.
It's their dime and their dance floor.....and you should respect that and not belittle people because they don't want to play your style of game. Tone it down a little because your driving folks away...with that kind of talk. I know your most probably one of the most skilled fighter jocks in the aerial game. But then again, you wouldn't stand a chance in a tank so I guess it's a wash any way you look at it...you'd have no problems killing me in an aircraft.....and I'd clean your clock in a tank hands down. The take away....don't belittle folk because they don't do what you do....because there are folks way better than you doing what they are good at. <S>
[quote This statement sums up the situation pretty darned well. Straddling the line means you get hit from both directions. :salute
[/quote]
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When did you play? I think you’re suffering from selective memory syndrome. In any event, I no longer fly a Mustang at 100% fuel which has made me ten times better and more aggressive—it doesn’t turn like the Titanic now.
Those things bore me to tears. Thankfully in my squadron others enjoyed those things leaving me to fly fighters.
I hate the DA. I go there because it’s a way to practice for the MA...
The dynamics of the two simply cannot be compared. I like the randomness and chance of the MA, dealing with different situations, etc. DA is practice. MA is the big game. Everyone knows this.
Kind regards. I appreciate the compliment. :salute
V you and I have played together for a few years now. We used to fly under Sfox's command. You asked me to join your squad towards the end of my run in AH. .. You mean you dont remember your good buddy finetime? I even told you who i was just 3 months ago on bbs in the game. In one ear oit there other? Oops there goes this ip and bbs account... Until next time gents :salute :rock
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It's their dime and their dance floor.....and you should respect that and not belittle people because they don't want to play your style of game. Tone it down a little because your driving folks away...with that kind of talk.
You greatly overestimate my impact on anyone, especially the 99.5% of players who never visit this forum.
I know your most probably one of the most skilled fighter jocks in the aerial game. But then again, you wouldn't stand a chance in a tank so I guess it's a wash any way you look at it...you'd have no problems killing me in an aircraft.....and I'd clean your clock in a tank hands down. The take away....don't belittle folk because they don't do what you do....because there are folks way better than you doing what they are good at. <S>
You also overestimate my skill.
I don’t care what GVers do. I don’t interact with them except during base takes or defense when we help one another out. Game balance for GV to GV combat is outside my wheelhouse so I defer to you guys on that.
Plane drivers are another matter altogether. They are going to extreme lengths to avoid combat. They want to be invisible to airplanes like GVs are. It’s a bizarre position to take in a(n) (air) combat game.
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V you and I have played together for a few years now. We used to fly under Sfox's command. You asked me to join your squad towards the end of my run in AH. .. You mean you dont remember your good buddy finetime? I even told you who i was just 3 months ago on bbs in the game. In one ear oit there other? Oops there goes this ip and bbs account... Until next time gents :salute :rock
Ah, yes, my old buddy. Good to see you FT. :salute
You would also know I did not always engage with full advantage. How many times did I successfully CAP a field on the deck for a take outnumbered 3:1? Plenty.
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Ah, yes, my old buddy. Good to see you FT. :salute
GUYS...I hate to beat a dead horse..so lets call it-Checking to see if hes really dead :uhoh The glaring of the obvious...is there but its like we all have blinders on. It stops peripheral vision and forces us to stare straight forward, without seeing the VALIDITY TO BOTH SIDE'S points. I also came for the AIR...but not sure i would have stuck around..WITHOUT the GVs(wirb especially). Frustration with the learning curve would have really gotten unsustainable. Being able to up a WIRB for some PayBack, kept me around long enough for me to work on my AIR skills. I for the life of me dont understand why both sides just drop the arguments and AT LEAST try out the other side of the AH coin :uhoh Sure its not what you prefer...but Going Attack/bomb**** keeps me in a Fighter enough to trip over some GREAT AIR ACTION. Have you even thought about adding to your REPERTOIRE by adding GV killing. Its almost as hard as learning the ACM stuff imo. Make it tough...use the SMALLEST possible bomb available. I have killed Tigers 1 and 2 with Spit 16's bombs, have to put it on their head though...that takes just as much practice and skill building as the ACM. I honestly believe that if you fighter only guys would try it out...you will experience what I do. You would be in the hot spot for a fact and the AIR will make its appearance! That way you are doing something COMBAT while you wait. :uhoh Now you will be at a disadvantage, as you are limited in your E department. So IMO a solid K/D in this style is nothing to sneeze at. It might even improve your ACM stuff for when you find what you want. We are a Family Guys, sure siblings quarrel...I just dont want to see HT pull this bus over and whoop our collective arses. So every once in a while, would it really hurt you to let one of your other brothers pick the Song on this road trip? B-I-N-G-O gets VERY OLD QUICKLY :pray
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Personal attacks add nothing to the debate. Both of you should consider backing off IMO
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Personal attacks add nothing to the debate. Both of you should consider backing off IMO
I’m not attacking him at all. It’s all good natured ribbing and he knows it—or should. He can attack me all he likes (I have no idea where it is coming from so will just let it slide—maybe I’m being punk’d). :cool:
To address the larger point... I wish I had the answer. Hitech is working on it. Hopefully the feedback here by all involved has been helpful to him on some level and he winds up with something that resolves a few of the gameplay issues raised.
A little good faith and encouragement is in order I think.
I for the life of me dont understand why both sides just drop the arguments and AT LEAST try out the other side of the AH coin :uhoh Sure its not what you prefer...but Going Attack/bomb**** keeps me in a Fighter enough to trip over some GREAT AIR ACTION. Have you even thought about adding to your REPERTOIRE by adding GV killing. Its almost as hard as learning the ACM stuff imo. Make it tough...use the SMALLEST possible bomb available.
It’s a little hard to kill something you can’t see or find. I am CAPABLE of bombing GVs but they’re harder to find than ghost air cons so I don’t bother very often.
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Personal attacks add nothing to the debate. Both of you should consider backing off IMO
Fess has one foot that is bigger than the other... annnnnd he smells of elderberries.
:neener:
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This game in terms of subscriptions cannot survive forcing customers to do what they do not see as a good risk\reward for them selves. They will find another game like the average Joe customers did after NOE was severely curtailed nine years ago to "force" them to fight I suppose the small numbers of air combat only fans. For eight years up to 2009 Hitech allowed the game to evolve away from an "air combat only" game becasue that is not a growth industry for a simulation like this to stay solvent. As the last nine years have shown, hoards of air combat only freaks didn't fill in the numbers as the average Joe customers left the game. And many of the resident air combat only players left with the average Joes becasue none of them really want to spend all their time fighting other sharks. They wanted occasional run in's with them while harvesting the clueless Joes claiming ch200 bragging rights. When there were hundreds of skill less average Joes there was constant action and target rich environments.
Today our average Joes have been conditioned to be super avoiders, becasue doing anything that shows up on radar, ends up with a small hoard of people stomping them for their trouble. It amazes me we have a core membership of average Joes still paying Hitech for the privilege of getting their teeth kicked in. They don't want to be ACM nuts, they don't want to be panzer generals, and they don't want to do more than than spend a few hours pushing a button. But, they pay Hitech $14.95 to keep the doors open.
NOE (200ft minimum) up till nine years ago grew the population of average Joes becasue they could accomplish something meaningful to their level of skill and risk tolerance. Once NOE was taken away, look at how all the grand missions dried up for all those large missions squads. There were more average Joes than ACM fans logging in for the missions and they were growing this game with their numbers.
This game like it or not in the MA is capture the flag using toys land\sea\air. It evolved that way becasue of who was paying money to play it up to 2009. Today, the MA is mostly stalled field captures with bored customers getting picked by air combat greifers. How many average Joe customers really believe they will capture a field opposed to they are going to another location to fail? Give them back NOE and let the average paying customer feel good about himself and this game again. We have had the last 9 years of "what" to make them feel good about themselves for their $14.95? The resident gurus of ACM telling them constantly they suck, are cowards, and are killing this game by avoiding combat with real Aces High men? When they had NOE for 8 years until 2009, they were willing to take their chances every day becasue there was also the chance they would achieve their objective. Today, even flying in a group at 30k gets you killed by the ACM sharks. What is the point if that is all you can expect for your $14.95?
Well said Bustr, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. :rock
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This game like it or not in the MA is capture the flag using toys land\sea\air. It evolved that way becasue of who was paying money to play it up to 2009. Today, the MA is mostly stalled field captures with bored customers getting picked by air combat greifers. How many average Joe customers really believe they will capture a field opposed to they are going to another location to fail? Give them back NOE and let the average paying customer feel good about himself and this game again. We have had the last 9 years of "what" to make them feel good about themselves for their $14.95? The resident gurus of ACM telling them constantly they suck, are cowards, and are killing this game by avoiding combat with real Aces High men? When they had NOE for 8 years until 2009, they were willing to take their chances every day becasue there was also the chance they would achieve their objective. Today, even flying in a group at 30k gets you killed by the ACM sharks. What is the point if that is all you can expect for your $14.95?
So... the enemy players are there for what, ambience? We need to bend the game to the point where defense is ineffective so that everybody can feel good about themselves?
Maybe the path forward is to turn it into a co-op game like Destiny where there's no PvP, only token NPC defenders so everybody can feel good. :rolleyes:
Wiley.
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So... the enemy players are there for what, ambience? We need to bend the game to the point where defense is ineffective so that everybody can feel good about themselves?
Maybe the path forward is to turn it into a co-op game like Destiny where there's no PvP, only token NPC defenders so everybody can feel good. :rolleyes:
Wiley.
Everyone gets a flight award..... weeeeEEEEEEeeeee :D
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... so everybody can feel good. :rolleyes:
Exactly that is needed. There's only the big question is how to achieve it.
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Exactly that is needed. There's only the big question is how to achieve it.
Well, being that theoretically when PvP occurs someone loses, clearly we need to remove that aspect of the game.
Wiley.
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Well, being that theoretically when PvP occurs someone loses, clearly we need to remove that aspect of the game.
Wiley.
Pillow fight!!!!!!!!! :banana:
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Well, being that theoretically when PvP occurs someone loses, clearly we need to remove that aspect of the game.
Wiley.
That's what actually 'The War' in the MA is for.
Most player are (and always have been) fodder for a few hot shots. Dying much more than you can ever hope to kill can be extremely frustrating.
A war scenario can mitigate this feeling somewhat by still giving you a sense of purpose or accomplishment when helping to defend that base or getting that last needed base capture.
Fly in those troops, drive the supplies that bring the ords back up, cover the runway with your Flak while the fighter pros try to get airborne. Maybe whittle down the enemy a bit with your single fighter kill every few sorties or just tie up the enemy forces for the crucial few moments before you go down in flames.
For those players team effort and team success > individual success.
This is why I always found even noncombat options of gameplay to be quite important for player retention.
The balance of risks, rewards and impact are another matter, of course.
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That's what actually 'The War' in the MA is for.
Most player are (and always have been) fodder for a few hot shots. Dying much more than you can ever hope to kill can be extremely frustrating.
A war scenario can mitigate this feeling somewhat by still giving you a sense of purpose or accomplishment when helping to defend that base or getting that last needed base capture.
Fly in those troops, drive the supplies that bring the ords back up, cover the runway with your Flak while the fighter pros try to get airborne. Maybe whittle down the enemy a bit with your single fighter kill every few sorties or just tie up the enemy forces for the crucial few moments before you go down in flames.
For those players team effort and team success > individual success.
This is why I always found even noncombat options of gameplay to be quite important for player retention.
The balance of risks, rewards and impact are another matter, of course.
EXACTLY... You cant always get what you want, all the time. You do however have to be IN THE GAME for when WHAT YOU WANT HAPPENS.
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Well, being that theoretically when PvP occurs someone loses, clearly we need to remove that aspect of the game.
Wiley.
Ahhh but if they were both looking for a fight..... did anyone really lose?
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Heh. Good observation. Unintended consequences.
In 2001 AH was a fighter game. There were a few dedicated bomber people, but the focus was fighter v fighter combat, and most of us instinctively understood that and wanted that. (GVs were something you did occasionally, just to see what it was like.) When AW died and I moved here, I vividly remember thinking that the win-the-war concept might generate conduct that "the old crowd" would not approve. And so it did. Now, all these years later, AH is pretty close to what WWII Online was aiming at: A WWII simulation, not emphasizing any one aspect thereof. The old crowd thinned out, and the replacements were people more interested in other features of the game. That's bound to discourage members of the old crowd, and we are nothing if not vociferous about it. But we really shouldn't be complaining that the game has taken on a broader appeal. In a way, it's a measure of HTC's foresight.
- oldman
Nailed it. As the years have gone by the focus of the player population has become less about dogfighting and more about winning the war. If one's goal is base capture, dogfighting really isn't that relevant. Coming from AW and WB, base capture was a sideshow in our minds. Then again if all we wanted was dogfighting we'd all be in the wwI arena. Then again, again, back in the 90's I don't remember the AW wwI arena being empty. What were the arena pop numbers like when AWIII finally closed it's doors?
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Nailed it. As the years have gone by the focus of the player population has become less about dogfighting and more about winning the war. If one's goal is base capture, dogfighting really isn't that relevant. Coming from AW and WB, base capture was a sideshow in our minds. Then again if all we wanted was dogfighting we'd all be in the wwI arena. Then again, again, back in the 90's I don't remember the AW wwI arena being empty. What were the arena pop numbers like when AWIII finally closed it's doors?
Warbirds was all about taking and defending fields in the middle of a dogfight. The fronts would roll along with an ebb and flow (two-sided war). The three-sided war here has stifled a lot of that because of the lower numbers. Back when you 500 players I am sure the dynamics were similar to WBs with the moving fronts.
Also, WBs was a total victory concept, so when it came down to the last few bases defenses really stiffened making for some great fights. Here there really is no visceral sense of who is winning or losing. I am always surprised to see a map won. If you aren't constantly clicking on the war status button you really have no idea what the stakes are.
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I’m not attacking him at all. It’s all good natured ribbing and he knows it—or should. He can attack me all he likes (I have no idea where it is coming from so will just let it slide—maybe I’m being punk’d). :cool:
To address the larger point... I wish I had the answer. Hitech is working on it. Hopefully the feedback here by all involved has been helpful to him on some level and he winds up with something that resolves a few of the gameplay issues raised.
A little good faith and encouragement is in order I think.
It’s a little hard to kill something you can’t see or find. I am CAPABLE of bombing GVs but they’re harder to find than ghost air cons so I don’t bother very often.
I don't think either one of us have attacked each other. I think skuzzy is a little trigger happy but hey got to keep the peace... It's becoming a point where rule 4 is invoked over almost anything if you point out facts about a player. Skuzzy isn't in the game so from the outside looking in he percieves it as an attack. I would imagine V is experiencing the same thing in regards to rule 4. I'm sure this will get violated as well when in all fairness I'm simply describing what happened ...
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I remember coming from 3 bases left to winning the map in warbirds.
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That's what actually 'The War' in the MA is for.
Most player are (and always have been) fodder for a few hot shots. Dying much more than you can ever hope to kill can be extremely frustrating.
A war scenario can mitigate this feeling somewhat by still giving you a sense of purpose or accomplishment when helping to defend that base or getting that last needed base capture.
Fly in those troops, drive the supplies that bring the ords back up, cover the runway with your Flak while the fighter pros try to get airborne. Maybe whittle down the enemy a bit with your single fighter kill every few sorties or just tie up the enemy forces for the crucial few moments before you go down in flames.
For those players team effort and team success > individual success.
This is why I always found even noncombat options of gameplay to be quite important for player retention.
The balance of risks, rewards and impact are another matter, of course.
I agree with your points above. What I wonder about though is if that's enough motivation for a lot of the current players. Anytime you see people complaining about people running because they're "playing for score" what they usually actually mean is they're running because they're playing not to die. By behavior I've seen, especially during the radar test, it seems to me the vast majority play not to get killed, regardless of what's going on in the area or the war.
Wiley.
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I don't think either one of us have attacked each other. I think skuzzy is a little trigger happy but hey got to keep the peace... It's becoming a point where rule 4 is invoked over almost anything if you point out facts about a player. Skuzzy isn't in the game so from the outside looking in he percieves it as an attack. I would imagine V is experiencing the same thing in regards to rule 4. I'm sure this will get violated as well when in all fairness I'm simply describing what happened ...
Actually if comparison to Skuzzy, you are an outsider.
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Actually if comparison to Skuzzy, you are an outsider.
and yet I have wasted at least a thousand more hours in the game than he has in the last 8 years.... So apples and oranges shuffler. With all respect it's a desk job :bolt: where as on my end it is just an escape that I had to pay just to get my butt handed to me long enough to where I learned how to adapt and overcome. Accomplishing many things you wouldn't even consider worth your own time.
Things entire squads would accomplish all by myself because I played so much at times I couldn't count on anyone else due to low numbers during dead hourse or simply diversifying my time investment into 3 accounts just to make sure the job got done .. because the numbers weren't there. Several players have done this with no action so I figured why can't I? They allow shades, why can't I run 3 PC's all on the same side
I'm just saying my rule 4 was not an attack but only percieved as such because skuzzy is on the outside looking in. Call it like I see it no offenses intended to skuzzy or V. I have been rule 4rd on some sketchy lines and I'm sure when he returns to his desk or logs in on a weekend I won't have this account and it will h
Be banned again... Wizz was tolerated until I became so loud mouthed on drunken rants over these very issues way before any of you saw it that the office said enough and banned me.
I even had an account banned and pc locked from game once. All over a rant involing the squad that folks on bbs seem to associate me with and my rant while drunk, over their handling of one of their senior members dislike of me switching sides and complete disrespect towards me because I went bish for 1 night due to no fights. I drunken ranted how that same behavior lead to some degree having one of their former members ending up Kia after they as a group pretty much did the same thing to him. They whined about it to Dale and having secretly recorded the rant and being so outspoken and troublesome on bbs over things everyone complains about today HTC said that's enough and flipped the switch . when the truth of the matter was they bully people and I had enough and finally let that squad have it... who just so happens quit this game and has dogged Dale and skuzzy for years over the mishandling of shades and other issues.
Now look at this game . . . Numbers are everything. All of the bad has surfaced to llthe point it's undeniable while bbs members attacked me while I was screaming "wolf" for 3 years.
When I get fed up I speak the truth and don't hold back. Censorship has protected this game until now. Numbers don't lie... It's broken, they think they can win with VR while cannabilizing what used to make this game great, and bask in the ego of the inner circle. Well that's just great, just ruin one of the greatest games of all time and let it die a slow painful death. It's like the game was a psyop that has ran it's course and is rotting away :(
:cheers:
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Also, WBs was a total victory concept, so when it came down to the last few bases defenses really stiffened making for some great fights. Here there really is no visceral sense of who is winning or losing. I am always surprised to see a map won. If you aren't constantly clicking on the war status button you really have no idea what the stakes are.
AH wars required a total victory, too, in the past. Or with three sides its probably better described as a total loss of one side, before the map was reset.
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AH wars required a total victory, too, in the past. Or with three sides its probably better described as a total loss of one side, before the map was reset.
I think now the best way to preserve the MA is to switch to a two sided war. Plain and simple no need to break it down anyone who is on bbs should see the need. It's about the only way I'm ever coming back at this point.
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think now the best way to preserve the MA is to switch to a two sided war.
I think so too.
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It's really not though, especially when you get all 3 sides with big fights. It's nice to be able to fight a different team and crew on the other side of the map.
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Hitech,
Regarding your poll, perhaps there should be an "other" category for people who would like you to keep testing. I think the old way still needs work, but the new ways were still too... non strategic. I chose the old way because I don't completely like the tests for reasons. But I would like to keep testing instead of just resorting to a final solution from this poll.
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and yet I have wasted at least a thousand more hours in the game than he has in the last 8 years.... So apples and oranges shuffler. With all respect it's a desk job :bolt: where as on my end it is just an escape that I had to pay just to get my butt handed to me long enough to where I learned how to adapt and overcome. Accomplishing many things you wouldn't even consider worth your own time.
Things entire squads would accomplish all by myself because I played so much at times I couldn't count on anyone else due to low numbers during dead hourse or simply diversifying my time investment into 3 accounts just to make sure the job got done .. because the numbers weren't there. Several players have done this with no action so I figured why can't I? They allow shades, why can't I run 3 PC's all on the same side
I'm just saying my rule 4 was not an attack but only percieved as such because skuzzy is on the outside looking in. Call it like I see it no offenses intended to skuzzy or V. I have been rule 4rd on some sketchy lines and I'm sure when he returns to his desk or logs in on a weekend I won't have this account and it will h
Be banned again... Wizz was tolerated until I became so loud mouthed on drunken rants over these very issues way before any of you saw it that the office said enough and banned me.
I even had an account banned and pc locked from game once. All over a rant involing the squad that folks on bbs seem to associate me with and my rant while drunk, over their handling of one of their senior members dislike of me switching sides and complete disrespect towards me because I went bish for 1 night due to no fights. I drunken ranted how that same behavior lead to some degree having one of their former members ending up Kia after they as a group pretty much did the same thing to him. They whined about it to Dale and having secretly recorded the rant and being so outspoken and troublesome on bbs over things everyone complains about today HTC said that's enough and flipped the switch . when the truth of the matter was they bully people and I had enough and finally let that squad have it... who just so happens quit this game and has dogged Dale and skuzzy for years over the mishandling of shades and other issues.
Now look at this game . . . Numbers are everything. All of the bad has surfaced to llthe point it's undeniable while bbs members attacked me while I was screaming "wolf" for 3 years.
When I get fed up I speak the truth and don't hold back. Censorship has protected this game until now. Numbers don't lie... It's broken, they think they can win with VR while cannabilizing what used to make this game great, and bask in the ego of the inner circle. Well that's just great, just ruin one of the greatest games of all time and let it die a slow painful death. It's like the game was a psyop that has ran it's course and is rotting away :(
:cheers:
You have barely touched the game in comparison.
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I agree with your points above. What I wonder about though is if that's enough motivation for a lot of the current players. Anytime you see people complaining about people running because they're "playing for score" what they usually actually mean is they're running because they're playing not to die. By behavior I've seen, especially during the radar test, it seems to me the vast majority play not to get killed, regardless of what's going on in the area or the war.
Absolutely. For most players, score is just an afterthough most of the time (else they would play very differently and even take more risks than less).
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Nailed it. As the years have gone by the focus of the player population has become less about dogfighting and more about winning the war. If one's goal is base capture, dogfighting really isn't that relevant. Coming from AW and WB, base capture was a sideshow in our minds. Then again if all we wanted was dogfighting we'd all be in the wwI arena. Then again, again, back in the 90's I don't remember the AW wwI arena being empty. What were the arena pop numbers like when AWIII finally closed it's doors?
I think base capture GENERATES fights. Well it use to. :devil
Missions use to run with fighter sweeps out front of the buff streams and heavy fighters bringing up the rear with the goon. Defenders would try to intercept the line of attack or cap the base (which never worked as good as the intercept). Todays players want only the smash and grab missions to move toward a quick base grab.
The old days it was all about the fight for the base...watching the map trying to anticipate where the next mission is heading.... getting up out in front of it.... find the goon!!! On the attackers side it was how many of which plane to load out to get the job done....knowing who your skilled players are to do what needed to be done.... who to have as back up to take out what is left that you KNOW wont miss.... planning routes to use the darbar to mislead the defenders..... and hiding that damn goon!!! :x
Today "up heavy fighter, bomb everything, more on to the next base", or from the defenders side "up supply M3s and wait at town" or jump in a gun.
We played "war", these gamers just play a game.
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There are other steps that could be taken to generate fights:
1. Limit the number of fields to:
2 large airfields, 4 medium airfields, 8 small air fields
2 large VB, 4 small VB
2 or 3 ports
1 city, 1 large airfield (uncap) 1 large VB (uncap), typhoons cal start objects
2. Make the maps a tad smaller
3. Switch to a two sided war
4. Add war progress to the clipboard map (not nested).
5. Bring low dar limit to 150 to 200ft
6. Remove GVdar block and trim some trees or leave the trees and keep gvdar block
If Radar associated with the field being flashed by a GV isn’t destroyed within X amount of time. GV location is shown with a dot until the base stops flashing.
7. Make strat targets worth hitting
8. Harden towns, radar tower and ords bunker a bit
9. Use dots for aircraft on a 5 to 10 second delay for position reporting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think base capture GENERATES fights. Well it use to. :devil
And base captures are generated by NOE, which is no more.
No NOE = no base capture = no fights.
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And base captures are generated by NOE, which is no more.
No NOE = no base capture = no fights.
Not necessarily. The only time an NOE mission generated a fight is when it failed due to one reason or another. Back in the days of 110/N1K/B26 raids and the like, the town went from 100% to 0% in a matter of 1 minute and the base was captured.
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Not necessarily. The only time an NOE mission generated a fight is when it failed due to one reason or another. Back in the days of 110/N1K/B26 raids and the like, the town went from 100% to 0% in a matter of 1 minute and the base was captured.
Yes but in that time you could up from a nearby field to find plenty of low targets.
A fight is guaranteed, and if you would kill the lurking c47 the base would not be captured so fast, and the fight could last for a long time, or they would cancel the attack, everything depends on the situation.
It was all thanks to NOE.
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And base captures are generated by NOE, which is no more.
No NOE = no base capture = no fights.
Let me tell you something, nuget, if our base captures that are NOT NOE don't attract a fight then NOE raids are not going to change that dynamic.
We rolled four or five bases again the other night one after the other...announcing our intentions on 200. No uppers. NONE. Zero. We even left the radar up a couple of times just so they could see us. Not one upper from ANYWHERE near us.
Yes but in that time you could up from a nearby field to find plenty of low targets.
A fight is guaranteed, and if you would kill the lurking c47 the base would not be captured so fast, and the fight could last for a long time, or they would cancel the attack, everything depends on the situation.
It was all thanks to NOE.
You're dreaming in technicolor, bruh.
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You have barely touched the game in comparison.
Shuffler I humbly accept that statement. Some of the best times I ever had we're flying fighter sweeps with the best in the game. Hunting buffs on strat runs and engaging in long range GV battles in the old crater.
Playing to win the war gave me 3demensional capabilities on a grand scale that allowed strong influence on how a map played out. That was what appealed to me the most. I know that I'm whining a lot these days but the time investment required to play the game how I like to play it is far more difficult doing it all alone then it used to be. That may in fact be what HTC is wanting but the problem is a lack in numbers to where we have Resort it back 2 a horde friendly environment that becomes too one-sided on offense or defense.
Still I will bow to what you just said and accept that fact with positivity :salute
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I think base capture GENERATES fights. Well it use to. :devil
Missions use to run with fighter sweeps out front of the buff streams and heavy fighters bringing up the rear with the goon. Defenders would try to intercept the line of attack or cap the base (which never worked as good as the intercept). Todays players want only the smash and grab missions to move toward a quick base grab.
The old days it was all about the fight for the base...watching the map trying to anticipate where the next mission is heading.... getting up out in front of it.... find the goon!!! On the attackers side it was how many of which plane to load out to get the job done....knowing who your skilled players are to do what needed to be done.... who to have as back up to take out what is left that you KNOW wont miss.... planning routes to use the darbar to mislead the defenders..... and hiding that damn goon!!! :x
Today "up heavy fighter, bomb everything, more on to the next base", or from the defenders side "up supply M3s and wait at town" or jump in a gun.
We played "war", these gamers just play a game.
spot on fugi can't believe for once I agree with you haha
With that said the game has degenerated due to declining numbers steadily in the last 3 years. Tends to force people away from what used to work "the right way."
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There are other steps that could be taken to generate fights:
1. Limit the number of fields to:
2 large airfields, 4 medium airfields, 8 small air fields
2 large VB, 4 small VB
2 or 3 ports
1 city, 1 large airfield (uncap) 1 large VB (uncap), typhoons cal start objects
2. Make the maps a tad smaller
3. Switch to a two sided war
4. Add war progress to the clipboard map (not nested).
5. Bring low dar limit to 150 to 200ft
6. Remove GVdar block and trim some trees or leave the trees and keep gvdar block
If Radar associated with the field being flashed by a GV isn’t destroyed within X amount of time. GV location is shown with a dot until the base stops flashing.
7. Make strat targets worth hitting
8. Harden towns, radar tower and ords bunker a bit
9. Use dots for aircraft on a 5 to 10 second delay for position reporting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1
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Yes but in that time you could up from a nearby field to find plenty of low targets.
A fight is guaranteed, and if you would kill the lurking c47 the base would not be captured so fast, and the fight could last for a long time, or they would cancel the attack, everything depends on the situation.
It was all thanks to NOE.
I'm starting to think that you've never actually played in the Main Arena. I don't think you understand how quickly these things happened, Bishops had it down like clockwork and could roll a map in a matter of hours. It was a horde tactic but it worked. Even if one or two people defended, it wasn't enough to combat 20+ people swarming a field and town. That's not much of a fight.
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And base captures are generated by NOE, which is no more.
No NOE = no base capture = no fights.
No NOE = Co-ordinated, planned missions with multi pronged attack formations = fights
NOE = hide and seek avoidance = no fights
Yes but in that time you could up from a nearby field to find plenty of low targets.
A fight is guaranteed, and if you would kill the lurking c47 the base would not be captured so fast, and the fight could last for a long time, or they would cancel the attack, everything depends on the situation.
It was all thanks to NOE.
Thats not a fight! You look like you only want a row of planes sitting on the runway that wont fire back so you can get a bunch of easy kills.
Learn some skills and EARN those kills by fighting for them.
spot on fugi can't believe for once I agree with you haha
With that said the game has degenerated due to declining numbers steadily in the last 3 years. Tends to force people away from what used to work "the right way."
The planets will always align at least once in a millennium. :devil
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No NOE = Co-ordinated, planned missions with multi pronged attack formations = fights
NOE = hide and seek avoidance = no fights
Avoidance stops when you attack a field and the fun starts :banana:
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Avoidance stops when you attack a field and the fun starts :banana:
:bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
If you can't attract a fight announcing your intentions on 200 and rolling base after base (sometimes in full radar view) trying to start a fight then an NOE raid is not going to make any difference.
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If done correctly you have the base BEFORE a fight could even start, the definition of avoidance.
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If done correctly you have the base BEFORE a fight could even start, the definition of avoidance.
So what's the problem with that ? then other side can re-capture it.
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So what's the problem with that ? then other side can re-capture it.
That is still not a fight, the NOE guys have run off and are trying their luck at another NOE some place else. I've never seen a group DEFEND a base they just snuck.
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That is still not a fight, the NOE guys have run off and are trying their luck at another NOE some place else. I've never seen a group DEFEND a base they just snuck.
And I have seen a group defend a base, many times.
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And I have seen a group defend a base, many times.
Which you'll get less of with NOE raids.
Fugitive is right. Again.
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Avoidance stops when you attack a field and the fun starts :banana:
I don't think you understand the point of an NOE mission, so I'll spell it out very elementary for you.
If you want to take a base and have a fight, you climb out and let dar-bar let the enemy know where you are. The point of NOE is to literally not show the enemy where you are, this way you can get as close to the target as possible without being detected and/or showing how much of a force you have. Hence, for all intents and purposes you are avoiding a fight. There is no explaining away a theory that you want a fight by running NOE. The only way an NOE mission will create a fight is if it fails and defenders have enough time to roll their stuff and defend.
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I don't think you understand the point of an NOE mission, so I'll spell it out very elementary for you.
If you want to take a base and have a fight, you climb out and let dar-bar let the enemy know where you are. The point of NOE is to literally not show the enemy where you are, this way you can get as close to the target as possible without being detected and/or showing how much of a force you have. Hence, for all intents and purposes you are avoiding a fight. There is no explaining away a theory that you want a fight by running NOE. The only way an NOE mission will create a fight is if it fails and defenders have enough time to roll their stuff and defend.
True.
- oldman
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Turn off the feeder, guys. It's time. :bolt:
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when people griped about the "radar tests", this is how I imagine they think everyone flys in this game..
(https://s33.postimg.cc/djj2qru6n/radar.jpg)
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Nope, that wont wwork with VR :uhoh Close though :x Holes closer together with one half of clip board cut out for the open/fuller view of terrain :rofl
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when people griped about the "radar tests", this is how I imagine they think everyone flys in this game..
(https://s33.postimg.cc/djj2qru6n/radar.jpg)
I doubt they'll have the guts to use the P-39. :devil
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And base captures are generated by NOE, which is no more.
No NOE = no base capture = no fights.
LOL
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See Rule #4