Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bronk on February 01, 2009, 07:11:55 AM
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Since we have teh "mega squads" I think it's time to shorten the leash a bit on em.
Let's make em work a bit.
Limit the numbers to tuned Vox in the MAs to squad size.
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Good initiative. Bad judgement. Nope.
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Good initiative. Bad judgement. Nope.
Said the multi wing member. ;)
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<-Says another multi-wing member, no. HiTech would have chosen a method many years ago to put limits of some degree on large squads.
Despite years of complaints, he has yet to do so.
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Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16.
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Let me guess.
You don't like multi-winged squads.
Am I gettin warm?
Brilliant idea.
No, really!
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"Hmm maybe it is time to bring the squad limit down to 16."
He has yet to do so.
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I don't see Hitech doing anything to limit how many people can be on a channel(except squad vox which is already limited to 32) This will turn people off...
Turning people off in this economy is the last thing you want to do..
Sometimes it's a pain in the arse to deal with megasquads.. Sometimes, it's fun to hang out with them..
Take the good with the bad.. The game is fine (communication wise) as it is, I believe..
People pay their 50 cents a day here to play and communicate how they see fit..
While, I'm not a huge fan of mega squads(although I do have some friends that are members of them).
I can't see any justification in limiting the way they communicate..
Hell, it's easy to get around this whole communication limiting factor by using Ventrillo or something similar anyway!
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The point of squad limits is to keep the groups in the game small and familiar, and consequently the game too. Groups too large behave differently from small close-knit groups of friends. The same way the MA turned to a slum when it hosted too many people.
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The point of squad limits is to keep the groups in the game small and familiar, and consequently the game too. Groups too large behave differently from small close-knit groups of friends. The same way the MA turned to a slum when it hosted too many people.
Well stated :aok ( by one of the few non-multi-wingers in this thread :P)
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This is as bad as fighting thier hordes in the arena's. Few against the many.....bad for game play. Just got into a fight with some claim jumers over cv's in orange. Knights have some cv's hiden because we either don't have the ports or they are close to the front. They come on and try to move all of them (6) into the front. They even had the gull to put me on vox and swear at me...not that that's new to anyone. Mega squads must go away please HTC please! One of them ,ranked right behind me, called me a score padder (useing a different word that starts with wh and ends with ore) how iroinic. Message to claim jumpers please stop rotating to the knights. Stay bish or rooks please.
VOX is not limited to 32 btw.
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The point of squad limits is to keep the groups in the game small and familiar, and consequently the game too. Groups too large behave differently from small close-knit groups of friends. The same way the MA turned to a slum when it hosted too many people.
If that is true then it is the worst way to do it...there are much cleverer ways such as multiple similar small arenas like air warrior...small maps....no ability to hide under dar....limited vox channels.... etc
Me thinks you are assuming something that is not true.....I think the size of a squadron was made more because of historical reasons and perhaps programming....the griefers use the number a s away to try to remodel the game to their liking...
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This is as bad as fighting thier hordes in the arena's. Few against the many.....bad for game play. Just got into a fight with some claim jumers over cv's in orange. Knights have some cv's hiden because we either don't have the ports or they are close to the front. They come on and try to move all of them (6) into the front. They even had the gull to put me on vox and swear at me...not that that's new to anyone. Mega squads must go away please HTC please! One of them ,ranked right behind me, called me a score padder (useing a different word that starts with wh and ends with ore) how iroinic. Message to claim jumpers please stop rotating to the knights. Stay bish or rooks please.
VOX is not limited to 32 btw.
Sweet! Now the Rook Eny won't be messed up due to a buncha noe horders. (PLUS, there's the added advantage of more people on the other side whose skill affords me opportunities for more kills :D
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Limit the numbers to tuned Vox in the MAs to squad size.
ORR..go all out and limit squads to 1 wing...Some squads are armies within themselves, I think this would cut back on the horde mentality a bit.
Excellent post m00t, agreed
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Me thinks you are assuming something that is not true.....I think the size of a squadron was made more because of historical reasons and perhaps programming....
I'm surprised you have the gull to say that after you've been directly told by HiTech...
FALCONWING:
1st I realy didn't itend for you to try post your members, hence why I said ask yourself the question.
2nd The question was in no way ment to insult, degrade, or say you are not loyal to your friends. The question was ment to show basic human behavior.
That behavior is realy simple, once a group grows above a certain number, they are no longer all a close group of friends. And once again ask yourself, do I realy belive someone is a close friend, (dosn't mean you have any ill in anyway to them) if I can not name them. I would once again sugest that the people you could not name are realy just people you wish could also be your friends, but they are realy not your friends, just people who could be.
That statement is in no way a slander on your squad. It is mearly a simple fact proven by my original question. Because you could not name them is not in anyway an insult to you, I'm sure you wish you could know all them personaly. And that is the hole point, when a group gets to big ,people can not realy form close personal bonds with everyone. A person just does not have the time to perform the interaction required with everone.
It apears to me ( I could be wrong) is that you belive, enorder to remain a llarge group, you must all fly together. My guess is that on a squad night, you could have 35 - 50 peole wishing to fly.
Let me make a sugestion, break your orinzation into 3 groups, chosen by your members. Then have each group choose a different country, or roll some dice for the country.
Now on squad night you might just have great fun fighting missions against eachother. Notice your still the group, your still all flying together, you can still call yourselves the same thing, all wanting to have fun in the same way. Now you can even have fun bantering back and forth about the outcomes.
And finaly, do you realy belive loyalty to your squad should outway the needs of the rest of the AH community?
My guess would be that you do not belive that. But your current arguments about," my large squad should be able to do what they wish just like they used to ", yes that a very liberal paraphrase, and I know that isn't what you realy belive, but your arguments have been comming across that way.
To simply put my postion, at this time the needs of the many "All AH Players" are outwaying the needs few "Your Squad"
HiTech
It is my belief that creating an "Air force" like the Bop's is a also form of exess.
So I don't view your post as "suspicion".
I do view it as you put
1. Loyalty to "Air Force".
2. Loyalty to "Country"
3. Creating a Sudo realy Air Force, with simalar rules.
4. Creating one of the larger Air Forces in AH.
Above the need for ah's over all game play.
And your post while not stating the above resones I see it as an attempt to try put your rules above AH's game play. I also do not think that you are trying to do this dilibertaly (I.E. I do not believe you think My way or AH be damed)
I view you more like,
These would be your thoughts.
"I see problems like Imbalance , lower arena limits,less friendly arenas then of old. But I think that we can change other things to still let me implemnt my "Air force" pryorities.
What I believe you do not see , is simply you have taken it to exess.
HiTech
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Are those hordes that everyone complains about really more than 32 players? I would suspect more often than not they are fewer.
So, when the hordes are still around, where would your slippery slope end? 24? 16? 8?
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our 5 man squad will pwn jooo all!!!
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So if they make multi-wing squads disband, will they then stop a nameless crowd of over 32 people from attacking a base?
Most of the absolutely huge missions that I see in this game are "open" missions announced on country channel.
And although this has been stated many many times before, I guess some people need to hear it again, most multi-wing squads hardly ever have more that 15 or 20 guys on at a time and that would include "squad night".
Same guys, same complaints.
You guys are startin to sound like Charlie Browns teacher---blah blah blah blah.
Hiding in a horde--lmfao!!
And I couldn't care less about anyones so called "skills"or lack of them, its a frickin game.
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If that is true then it is the worst way to do it...there are much cleverer ways such as multiple similar small arenas like air warrior...small maps....no ability to hide under dar....limited vox channels.... etc
Me thinks you are assuming something that is not true.....I think the size of a squadron was made more because of historical reasons and perhaps programming....the griefers use the number a s away to try to remodel the game to their liking...
It's just my opinion, no real evidence for it but my own pov and some hunch from everything I've heard out of htc. We'll have to agree to disagree, or make a bet out of it (give htc a call or ask em at next con or something).. I don't see any griefer remodeling or any of that stuff. I don't see that it would be much more clever to restrict maps to small size and no dar floor or limited vox channels. I just see a game that's hinged on friendship. Not the kind you have with 60 people, the kind you have with your closest friends around a poker game on a long weekend night, etc.
... Murdr posted what's right out of the horse's mouth, so there you have it, disregard my 'hunch'. (hehe, I was right)
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And I couldn't care less about anyones so called "skills"or lack of them, its a frickin game.
And the point of this game is air combat. You don't have to excel at it, but nevertheless it is the point of the game and dismissing it or ignoring it or even vulgarizing and debasing it isn't gonna "fly". Nothing stops you or anyone from organizing 32+ task forces; the point is one of the fabrics of the game - friendship. Without this the game goes stale, literally. Like the difference between two materials that look the same and yet are totaly different at the molecular scale. Graphene and graphite. One is strong and the other is brittle. Quality over quantity.
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Are those hordes that everyone complains about really more than 32 players? I would suspect more often than not they are fewer.
So, when the hordes are still around, where would your slippery slope end? 24? 16? 8?
This is a good question. As much as Bronk and some others :cry about multi wing squads, just how many of their player roster is online at one time. Here is an example:POTW, currently 3 wings, 71 active members. On any night there is at most 15-16 Pigs online at one time. The record is 24 members at one time set last year. Is this a horde? Is this a Mega-Squad ruining the Game Play? I have a feeling that most of the squads the folks are whining about find themselves to be about the same. They may have a lot of members, but I doubt all of them are together at any given time. Non-issue? Yep.
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Maybe these "Mega Squads" fly for the social aspect and fun of the game?
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Maybe these "Mega Squads" fly for the social aspect and fun of the game?
(http://www.omni-ts.com/_common/img/winner.jpg)
I love the dogfighting, the vehicle battles, well heck I love the whole game. However, the vox time with my buddies is the thing that I enjoy the most!
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(http://www.omni-ts.com/_common/img/winner.jpg)
I love the dogfighting, the vehicle battles, well heck I love the whole game. However, the vox time with my buddies is the thing that I enjoy the most!
Less talk, more killing :D
What is this, anyhow? The Aneheim, Asusa, Cucamunga sewing circle, book review and timing association? :O
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Hey come on Von,
I never said we were not disposing of the enemy while we were yakking. Speaking of which you never returned my knitting needles dude! :rofl
<Salute>
Way
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:o
BTW how is it there is a "Winter" park in Florida?
Whomever named that place needs to puff, puff, pass. :D
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It is simply a snow bird attracting name. By the way supposed to be in the low 30's by Wednesday here in sunny Florida.
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It is simply a snow bird attracting name. By the way supposed to be in the low 30's by Wednesday here in sunny Florida.
Cover the oranges :noid
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I'm surprised you have the gull to say that after you've been directly told by HiTech...
You have really become quite the ankle humper....
First of all quote the whole quote not half the quote...hitech clearly states that guys who just want to dogfight all the time would have ruined the game in the first half of one of those quotes...
secondly no where does he suggest we stop being a large squad...he did (successfully) ask me to rethink the need for such a large squad given his changes...and we have modified our behaviors...
I ask folks to click on the links and go back to read the thread and other posts that hitech was responding too...this was from 3 years ago when the arena splits first occurred and many of us larger squads were concerned about guys being able to hang out together...might give ya a better perspective...
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"ankle humper" now the "go to" line when the virtual rug is pulled from under them.
:rofl
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"ankle humper" now the "go to" line when the virtual rug is pulled from under them.
:rofl
um he has posted those 3 year old misquotes at least 4 times to try to "expose" me...i rarely respond to him...yes ankle humper seems quite appropriate. Pathetic seemed too harsh :uhoh
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Murdr has changed lately....IDK what's up with him
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Murdr has changed lately....IDK what's up with him
No, I haven't changed. You chose to act an arse with me, an there is a reprocussion for that.
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No, I haven't changed. You chose to act an arse with me, an there is a reprocussion for that.
Oh...who acted like an "adult" or "trainer" on 200...although both of those depict yourself..you acted neither
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Oh...who acted like an "adult" or "trainer" on 200...although both of those depict yourself..you acted neither
ROFL. "Lol 190 you phailed to vulch me" to some ananoymous player that just shot me and augered. Yea, that's real troublemaker material there.
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edit...no need to do this
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You have really become quite the ankle humper....
Actually you're so full of contradictions. There's no reason not to respond. Quite frankly in the last 24 you've rocketed up to number one on my personal list of idiots that AH would be much better off without. My bad, a year and a half ago for PMing you in the middle of the night urging you to reconsider you very personal attacks on another posters personal life and professional life. Then maybe noone would have to listen to your crap now.
First of all quote the whole quote not half the quote...hitech clearly states that guys who just want to dogfight all the time would have ruined the game in the first half of one of those quotes...
Yes please, everyone go click on the link to see how full of toejam falconwing is. HT gave a hypothetical for furballers, and cited your real example for "air forces". Big difference.
secondly no where does he suggest we stop being a large squad...he did (successfully) ask me to rethink the need for such a large squad given his changes...and we have modified our behaviors...
Good for you. The question remains, why pretend to act stupid with moot when HiTech himself has already discussed the topic with you?
I ask folks to click on the links and go back to read the thread and other posts that hitech was responding too...this was from 3 years ago when the arena splits first occurred and many of us larger squads were concerned about guys being able to hang out together...might give ya a better perspective...
Regardless of why the conversations took place, HiTech did touch on the topics that moot brought up, that you then feigned ignroance about.
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you continue to warp things as you wish to see them...no time, no where did hitech say squad size was to try to limit personal relationships in AH....
Bah I don't even know why i bother to respond to you....
Im done....<shakes his leg>
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I'm doomed....I mass GV raided a base with the BoPs again today....and had fun...again :uhoh
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Nice sig pic, Banshee.
At least they circled the problem :D
(figured I'd bust your balls so I could fit in)
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I'm doomed....I mass GV raided a base with the BoPs again today....and had fun...again :uhoh
FUN??? You can't have fun without ACM!!!!! Hehe..seriously was fun to have you tag along again..you pulled off some impossible shots in the whirble... :salute
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you continue to warp things as you wish to see them...no time, no where did hitech say squad size was to try to limit personal relationships in AH....
Bah I don't even know why i bother to respond to you....
Im done....<shakes his leg>
no but I think he did say that squad size is limited by personal relationships. I think 32 "friends" is pushing the limit myself, but that is how many friends they think you could reasonably have as a good friend, like a squadmate should be. Getting into the higher numbers of "friends" you looking at more like acquaintances than friends. By having the 32 squad limit those 32 have a much better chance of forming strong bonds of friendships. This is the type of community he is looking for. By adding more and more wings your deluting the bond because instead of each wing bonding within its self they are all looking toward the main wing of which they will always feel like outsiders. So less friendships are made fracturing the community.
I was part of a big squad, and as CO I knew everyone...60 strong at some points... It always surprised me when I found some of the people barely knew some of the other guys names. There was the core group, we knew wifes names, others likes, dislikes, favorite beers and such, but there where many that where like that cousin you see once a year at christmas. You know his name, maybe where he's from, but that was about it. When you get too big, your not making those friends, you get people joining just to have that squad logo on there plane. Thats the kind of thing they are trying to get away from. If some of those that are just 'hangers on" of the big squads join a small squad, and make friends it increases the fun or a few more people, instead of just stagnating.
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no but I think he did say that squad size is limited by personal relationships. I think 32 "friends" is pushing the limit myself, but that is how many friends they think you could reasonably have as a good friend, like a squadmate should be. Getting into the higher numbers of "friends" you looking at more like acquaintances than friends. By having the 32 squad limit those 32 have a much better chance of forming strong bonds of friendships. This is the type of community he is looking for. By adding more and more wings your deluting the bond because instead of each wing bonding within its self they are all looking toward the main wing of which they will always feel like outsiders. So less friendships are made fracturing the community.
I was part of a big squad, and as CO I knew everyone...60 strong at some points... It always surprised me when I found some of the people barely knew some of the other guys names. There was the core group, we knew wifes names, others likes, dislikes, favorite beers and such, but there where many that where like that cousin you see once a year at christmas. You know his name, maybe where he's from, but that was about it. When you get too big, your not making those friends, you get people joining just to have that squad logo on there plane. Thats the kind of thing they are trying to get away from. If some of those that are just 'hangers on" of the big squads join a small squad, and make friends it increases the fun or a few more people, instead of just stagnating.
Not realistic my friend...the sad truth is that people play for awhile and leave...they take 1/2 year breaks etc....having a larger pool means more poeple on each night to have fun with...that is the point of a game...so small squads can be fairly lonely over time...
I used to do tournament chess in college...i always hoped for a big turnout because i wasn't as interested in making new best friends as i was having a lot of folks to play with.....
Im sure none of my squadmates will be insulted when they find out I play AH as a break from real life...not to replace it...I have real life best friends, real life kids, real life wife and real life resposibilities....I like being part of large squad because there are always 8-12 folks on and chatter and laughter are always present. Think of it more like a bar...do you like an empty one or a full one...for my taste i prefer full....
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ahh but when the bar gets over crowded its not as much fun. Its harder to hear what some of your "friends" are saying, and impossible to hear what others are saying. So by over filling the bar your hindering fun for others. You may like it that way, but your spoiling other peoples fun.
So while preaching "fun" as the gospel of your squad, would you say spoiling other peoples "fun" should be part of it?
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ahh but when the bar gets over crowded its not as much fun. Its harder to hear what some of your "friends" are saying, and impossible to hear what others are saying. So by over filling the bar your hindering fun for others. You may like it that way, but your spoiling other peoples fun.
So while preaching "fun" as the gospel of your squad, would you say spoiling other peoples "fun" should be part of it?
I vote quality over quantity, every time.
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ahh but when the bar gets over crowded its not as much fun. Its harder to hear what some of your "friends" are saying, and impossible to hear what others are saying. So by over filling the bar your hindering fun for others. You may like it that way, but your spoiling other peoples fun.
So while preaching "fun" as the gospel of your squad, would you say spoiling other peoples "fun" should be part of it?
I guess perspective is the key...the short answer is of course "no"....but you are suggesting that my intent or effect is ruining someone else's fun...that has never been an objective for me personally...but anytime someone "loses" and some "wins" in essence someone's fun has been reduced....
I continue to think that AH is a game big enough for everyone's fun and not just one persons....
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Not realistic my friend...the sad truth is that people play for awhile and leave...they take 1/2 year breaks etc....having a larger pool means more poeple on each night to have fun with...that is the point of a game...so small squads can be fairly lonely over time...
Now I don't want to get flamed for not agreeing with this quote. I have nothing against the BoPs, I think you're all great guys but, I'm in "The Flying Circus" we're relatively small, with ALOT of guys that have been around for 8,9,10 years. If you talk to most of us we'll tell you most of the reason why we stick around is because of the close-knit squad we have. You won't really see anyone taking 1/2 - year breaks because; franky, we'd miss talking with eachother. It's just not the same in a large squad. I recently talked to a guy who left the BoPs, he said "you just get lost in a squad like that"
I've been in a big squad, it just wasn't my thing, I respect other people's opinions, was just stating mine
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Now I don't want to get flamed for not agreeing with this quote. I have nothing against the BoPs, I think you're all great guys but, I'm in "The Flying Circus" we're relatively small, with ALOT of guys that have been around for 8,9,10 years. If you talk to most of us we'll tell you most of the reason why we stick around is because of the close-knit squad we have. You won't really see anyone taking 1/2 - year breaks because; franky, we'd miss talking with eachother. It's just not the same in a large squad. I recently talked to a guy who left the BoPs, he said "you just get lost in a squad like that"
Several ex-bops are in The Flying Circus and they are a great squad....please don't construe anything i said to suggest that I think all squads should be large to be successful....but ask around your squad and you will find most of your guys have been thru several squads before they found something that fit...at least the guys I am thinking of...
Everyone who has ever left BoPs has remained a friend...many FC still visit our squad ch when your numbers are low...they will always be welcome to...I have no problem with our squad ch being "the noisy neighborhood bar". Thats the atmosphere I enjoy...baudy boisterous and loud :salute
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I guess perspective is the key...the short answer is of course "no"....but you are suggesting that my intent or effect is ruining someone else's fun...that has never been an objective for me personally...but anytime someone "loses" and some "wins" in essence someone's fun has been reduced....
I continue to think that AH is a game big enough for everyone's fun and not just one persons....
I'm sure its not your "intent" to ruins someones fun, but your squad and others mega squads have that "effect".
I have gone against the BOPS as well as other mega squads many a time. As one example, Bops came in with a huge numbers advantage 4-5 to 1. I was co-alt and decided to mix it up. Bad tactical choice, but hey, its a game and Im here to have fun. Most of the fighters were Tiffies, and I was in my 38. Did the tiffs try any wingman tactics... the old bait and drag move? No the main tactic was to try and HO me. I'm no "super cartoon pilot", but while avoiding the HOs I did manage to take out a couple of tiffs before I was to low on "E" to avoid the numbers that continued to close on me. I then tried to re-up once, and got vulched.
Not one guy tried to saddle up on me. In the whole 3 minute fight all I had to use was front and front quarter views. Why do you think that was? Then even with a 4 to 1 numbers advantage they had to vulch. Thats the way the game play has gone. No its not just the Bops doing it, many other squads do the same thing. Larger squads promote this, not because their leaders are saying "OK gang every plane you run into, HO every plane you see" but because its the only way they can get ahead. They gang because its the only kill around, the HO because they must kill quick or their squadmate might get the kill, they vulch because its to only kills they can get.
In a 4 on 1 that I described above, against skilled players the best I should have been able to do is ping someone, maybe one kill due to a lucky shot. None of them "fought", they just threw more bodies at me than I could handle.
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I'm sure its not your "intent" to ruins someones fun, but your squad and others mega squads have that "effect".
I have gone against the BOPS as well as other mega squads many a time. As one example, Bops came in with a huge numbers advantage 4-5 to 1. I was co-alt and decided to mix it up. Bad tactical choice, but hey, its a game and Im here to have fun. Most of the fighters were Tiffies, and I was in my 38. Did the tiffs try any wingman tactics... the old bait and drag move? No the main tactic was to try and HO me. I'm no "super cartoon pilot", but while avoiding the HOs I did manage to take out a couple of tiffs before I was to low on "E" to avoid the numbers that continued to close on me. I then tried to re-up once, and got vulched.
Not one guy tried to saddle up on me. In the whole 3 minute fight all I had to use was front and front quarter views. Why do you think that was? Then even with a 4 to 1 numbers advantage they had to vulch. Thats the way the game play has gone. No its not just the Bops doing it, many other squads do the same thing. Larger squads promote this, not because their leaders are saying "OK gang every plane you run into, HO every plane you see" but because its the only way they can get ahead. They gang because its the only kill around, the HO because they must kill quick or their squadmate might get the kill, they vulch because its to only kills they can get.
In a 4 on 1 that I described above, against skilled players the best I should have been able to do is ping someone, maybe one kill due to a lucky shot. None of them "fought", they just threw more bodies at me than I could handle.
I can't defend an attack i don't remember but in general if we are in a mission it is with some intent other then just dogfighitng...the obvious reasons i could think of for "ho'ing" would be we were heavy, had goons, had other enemy in the vicinity etc. You suggest that ANYONE playing this game hopes to die as an outcome..let alone a veteran squad...I'm sorry if those tactics made it less fun for you in that instance but was the rest of the map and arena so horrible you picked that situation to up into? We definitely do not advocate hoing as ACm but sometimes we do what we can to get the troops into the maproom...
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If that is true then it is the worst way to do it...there are much cleverer ways such as multiple similar small arenas like air warrior...small maps....no ability to hide under dar....limited vox channels.... etc
Me thinks you are assuming something that is not true.....I think the size of a squadron was made more because of historical reasons and perhaps programming....the griefers use the number a s away to try to remodel the game to their liking...
I doubt your squad is as big as it is due to "historical reasons", it's just a haven for the unskilled lemmings.
ack-ack
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I doubt your squad is as big as it is due to "historical reasons", it's just a haven for the unskilled lemmings.
ack-ack
I am 9,700 posts behind you and can never close that "insult" gap enough to be an effective insulter....You are at least 10k above me in that as well as in the MA ;)
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I can't defend an attack i don't remember but in general if we are in a mission it is with some intent other then just dogfighitng...the obvious reasons i could think of for "ho'ing" would be we were heavy, had goons, had other enemy in the vicinity etc. You suggest that ANYONE playing this game hopes to die as an outcome..let alone a veteran squad...I'm sorry if those tactics made it less fun for you in that instance but was the rest of the map and arena so horrible you picked that situation to up into? We definitely do not advocate hoing as ACm but sometimes we do what we can to get the troops into the maproom...
I'm sorry, I know it sounds like I'm picking on the Bops, but I'm not, I talking about the general play that results due to mega squads.
Yes I could have fought someplace else, the knights had their big squads up too. :D In the situation I mentioned, with your squad having such a huge number advantage there really was no treat to stopping your mission, or killing your goon, but those player felt they HAD to HO, HAD to gang. Like I said, not one tried to fight, they just used over whelming numbers. They could have easily handled my poor little 38 working wingman tactics, but instead went for the skilless attack. I don't mind going against uneven numbers as long as I fight someone who fights back with some skill. A squad attacking a base SHOULD be a great place to find a fight, instead the mentality is to dump a wall of bricks on the defenders. Whats fun about that, for either side?
Honestly which is more fun... 15 guys run an NOE and take a base after 6 minutes of fighting (fighting = vulching the 4 guys who tried to up to defend), or.... 15 guys run an NOE, 4 guys up and defend you loose 8 of your crew, the 4 defenders die at least twice each, but you still capture the base.
Sure letting guys up posses a problem, they might get the goon! If your crew is well taught, and they have skills then they should be able to handle 2 to 1 odds don't you think?
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I'm sorry, I know it sounds like I'm picking on the Bops, but I'm not, I talking about the general play that results due to mega squads.
Yes I could have fought someplace else, the knights had their big squads up too. :D In the situation I mentioned, with your squad having such a huge number advantage there really was no treat to stopping your mission, or killing your goon, but those player felt they HAD to HO, HAD to gang. Like I said, not one tried to fight, they just used over whelming numbers. They could have easily handled my poor little 38 working wingman tactics, but instead went for the skilless attack. I don't mind going against uneven numbers as long as I fight someone who fights back with some skill. A squad attacking a base SHOULD be a great place to find a fight, instead the mentality is to dump a wall of bricks on the defenders. Whats fun about that, for either side?
Honestly which is more fun... 15 guys run an NOE and take a base after 6 minutes of fighting (fighting = vulching the 4 guys who tried to up to defend), or.... 15 guys run an NOE, 4 guys up and defend you loose 8 of your crew, the 4 defenders die at least twice each, but you still capture the base.
Sure letting guys up posses a problem, they might get the goon! If your crew is well taught, and they have skills then they should be able to handle 2 to 1 odds don't you think?
Both situations happen quite a bit...sometimes 15 up!!! The beauty of the MA is you never know how something will turn out. I've upped aginst Noe's and died 5x or killed 5x...its a potluck. There is no glory in shooting down guys trying to capture base..they are often sitting ducks because they are heavy or in planes (tiffies) that cant turn with nikis, spits etc...when you up against one you take a risk either way
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The point is that a "mega squad" has the numbers to dictate the type of fight it will be. Todays mega squads seem to go with the first option, where as the second option would be fun for more people.
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What's a Mega-Squad?
:uhoh
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What's a Mega-Squad?
:uhoh
Any squad with more than the allowed limit of 32 people :eek:
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I doubt your squad is as big as it is due to "historical reasons", it's just a haven for the unskilled lemmings.
ack-ack
<-- One "unskilled lemming" (that term is laughable). I used to play a lot more than I do now. Therefore my skill is sh**. Every time I hear that term mentioned, it makes me think that those who put it that way treat AH like they were getting paid to play. What was it William Shatner said? "Get a life!"
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Any squad with more than the allowed limit of 32 people :eek:
Surprisingly, I don't hold that view personally. I can be found on channel and flying with squads like Chicken Hawks, or the Damned on occasion. There is a line that divides reasonable and excessive. There's no point in quibbling on exactly where that line is, but there's no denying that somewhere there is a tipping point. I might even go so far as to say that it's not necessarily a number, but how squads conduct themselves within the game. For instance, I have no bad impressions whatsoever with a squad like the 71 RAF.
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And here I thought my sig would give away the idea that I was joking.
Any squad with more than the allowed limit of 32 people :eek:
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I doubt your squad is as big as it is due to "historical reasons", it's just a haven for the unskilled lemmings.
ack-ack
:rolleyes:
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you pulled off some impossible shots in the whirble... :salute
Ostwind :) Wirbles are for pansies
Nice sig pic, Banshee.
At least they circled the problem :D
(figured I'd bust your balls so I could fit in)
It was either ford or dodge...I couldn't find a good 2500 Ram logo
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Limit vox channels to 32. Wouldn't bother me. :D
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And here I thought my sig would give away the idea that I was joking.
Thats why I put the biggie eye icon there, :aok
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The BoPs can be considered a mega squad, but I think they're probably the most honorable ones. Unlike most mega squads, It has some good sticks, and not everyone in the squad is clueless. I know FALCON himself is a good stick, Thndr makes some fun high alt bomber missions, which I love flying escort for, along with a number of other guys that I trust to fly next to. FALCON I think the only reason BoPs are being targeted is because you're the first one who spoke up. I think the Chawks, Pigs On the Wing, LCA, and CLAIM JUMPERS are far worse.
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Well....
I happen to be C.O. of a pretty large group of names.....but not as many active players...
We have guys on VOX on the time who are not in the squad who just want tp fly with us and have a laugh. I saw we were mentioned in that "other" thread. We have some pretty good sticks in the squad. We also have our share of guys who could care less how they die or what they did wrong in the process to get that way. ALl they care about os having a laugh , a good time whne they log on and some freindships made along the way.
Everyone in the squad knows our VOX channel....in fact I'd say that there are quite a few knights that know our channel....AND if anyone asks we're more than happy for them to tune in and just fly with us.
71 sqd. was started about 6 years ago...(I think..Im older now :lol) We're tried the Attack wing/Bomber wing thing. Didn't work out then. We were never looking to grow all that large. It's just evolved over the years. But onm those lists of pilots you see under Batfinks Squad , RedTops squad and Snaphooks squad prolly only half if that many in EACH fly at all...and some of those only ever so often.
I understand that a true MEGA squad can dictate a fight and influence greatly an area of operations. I just don't see it being as big a deal as some would make it out to be.
If I remember right , we've had 2 official squad days since I been the C.O. of this squad which was day one. Now on those 2 days we put up some big numbers of pilots....1st year I think we had like 41 and last year we had like 28. We're not really a land grabbing squad so fighter sweeps are normally what's going on.
We have guys that like ALL aspects...GV's , Buff's , attack , land grab , and furball. We have just fiighter geeks.
Bascially what I am saying is don't let numbers fool you....we may have "numbers" but not all that many active. We also are usually spread all over the place when we have 10 or 12 guys on anyway. I make very little attempt at herding them up unless they want to do a sweep or something. Basically....I'm just a name on a roster who happened to be the C.O.
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Thndr makes some fun high alt bomber missions, which I love flying escort for,
Thanks, sir. :) <S>
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In my personal opinion, I don't mind mega wing squads. Because even if members of that squad were NOT members, they would still act the same way.
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The BoPs can be considered a mega squad, but I think they're probably the most honorable ones. Unlike most mega squads, It has some good sticks, and not everyone in the squad is clueless. I know FALCON himself is a good stick, Thndr makes some fun high alt bomber missions, which I love flying escort for, along with a number of other guys that I trust to fly next to. FALCON I think the only reason BoPs are being targeted is because you're the first one who spoke up. I think the Chawks, Pigs On the Wing, LCA, and CLAIM JUMPERS are far worse.
<S> Buster and TFC always a fun group of guys to fly with
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If that is true then it is the worst way to do it...there are much cleverer ways such as multiple similar small arenas like air warrior...small maps....no ability to hide under dar....limited vox channels.... etc
Me thinks you are assuming something that is not true.....I think the size of a squadron was made more because of historical reasons and perhaps programming....the griefers use the number a s away to try to remodel the game to their liking...
Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other. And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
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Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other. And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
I won't start a separate thread for this but....
I wish HiTech would stop using the spell checker. The entertainment value of his posts has decreased significantly since he started using it. :D
Now people will have to wait another 2 or 3 years before they can complain about bringing up HiTech's opinion of mega squads in old quotes.
Regards,
Hammer
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Looks pretty cut and dry to me... ;)
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you continue to warp things as you wish to see them...
I believe this the part where I get to say...."told you so :P "
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Now people will have to wait another 2 or 3 years before they can complain about bringing up HiTech's opinion of mega squads in old quotes.
Regards,
Hammer
:rofl
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I won't start a separate thread for this but....
I wish HiTech would stop using the spell checker. The entertainment value of his posts has decreased significantly since he started using it. :D
Now people will have to wait another 2 or 3 years before they can complain about bringing up HiTech's opinion of mega squads in old quotes.
Regards,
Hammer
There will be one differance if things keep going the way they are now. The argument will between 100 member squads and 500 member squads with the 100 member squads saying how the 500 member squads are skilless tards. Also will be brought up how the "art" of hording is ruined by the defending of bases.
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Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other. And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
I respectfully disagree that allowing an adequate number of players to produce a base capture in one squad is a bad thing. The game play was changed with the tweaks in ack ack and towns that occured way back. Before my relatively small and respected squad would skillfully take bases with 5 or 6 members.
I am extremely upset! The old CO would not allow expanding a wing and as a result in just one year we have vanished into obscurity from a very close nit 25+ players down to maybe 4.
The change in group dynamics is a direct result of the amount of frustration over the fruitless effort to achieve anything resembling a war. Without NOE, HORDE, or MEGA VOX coordination, nothing towards land grab is achieved. Forget about game play, and use MA as a Furball arena.
If you actually play this game, you will have to agree. If you don't you are deceiving yourself and not me.
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So get multiple 32-player squads to work together for those captures. Aside the fact that you don't need more than 3-10 players for a capture, and that 32 is enough for any of the worst Titanic Tuesday swarms of unorganised players you want to take a base from, squad sizes over 32 will hurt the game... It's got little or nothing to do with base captures, unless you yourselves made that your goal.
My squad mostly doesn't get any kick out of capturing, but just a couple of us who like strat/tactical play (e.g. Larry, Bipolar, Tec, me, maybe a couple more) could easily take a base while the rest of the squad establishes a killzone outside the town. You certainly don't need 32 players for that! Not unless there are 32 equaly coordinated players defending.
If 25+ players dissolved into just 4 because you couldn't add even more players than that, then your squad really wasn't tight knit to begin with.
Change in group dynamics as a result of frustration from "fruitless efforts to achieve a war" is not a squad size problem.
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The change in group dynamics is a direct result of the amount of frustration over the fruitless effort to achieve anything resembling a war. Without NOE, HORDE, or MEGA VOX coordination, nothing towards land grab is achieved. Forget about game play, and use MA as a Furball arena.
Your personal objectives for game play, and the developers objectives are not one in the same.
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
But I also don't agree that a squad level force (ie. 10-25 players) is inadequate to capture a base. It sounds like you want to achieve base capture above being bother by or having complications from "combat". Meaning the capture itself means way more than the experience of working together with friends to achieve something with challenges to overcome. That is ok, but it's not the only game play that AH is ment to accommodate.
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Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other. And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas. So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir?
A second question and completely related: Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations?
The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High. I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless. Your answer is appreciated.
<Salute>
Way
PS-Too late, I have to modify. A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line. :rolleyes:
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I respectfully disagree that allowing an adequate number of players to produce a base capture in one squad is a bad thing.
I didn't see anyone say having an "adequate" number to capture a base is a bad thing. What I see is a lot of people who believe that 32 people to capture a base is overkill, not adequacy.
And they would be correct IMO.
That being said, I go back to my original post. My experience has been that mega-squads are not necessarily the ones doing the hording. If you somehow eliminate the mega-squads, hording behavior will not stop.
I understand the desire to cure the "disease", but the proposed treatment may not be as effective as people think.
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I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas. So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir? WHile I'm not HT Id say anything that requires separate "wings". :rolleyes:
A second question and completely related: Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations? Why do you think the MAs were split in the first place?
The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High. I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless. Your answer is appreciated.
<Salute>
Way
It is not a question of smaller numbers. It is about squads gathering lemmings to be used as cannon fodder. Don't take the time to teach the intricacies of the game just hurl yourself at the toolshed in that 110.
PS-Too late, I have to modify. A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line. :rolleyes:
Suck when the creator of all things AH doesn't share your view point... ehh? :devil :aok
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I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas. So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir?
A second question and completely related: Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations?
The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High. I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless. Your answer is appreciated.
<Salute>
Way
PS-Too late, I have to modify. A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line. :rolleyes:
Guess it would be nice to get my meaning of slums before the professional moot quoters turn this settled argument into another neverending baseless gripe... I said that the MAs were heading in the direction of slums because of overcrowding (and I wasn't nearly the only one to notice). Like a big messy soup with no infrastructure, no compartmentalization. Like a big piece of soaked bread that's lost its composure. If everyone always flew in groups of close friends, say 16 player groups, IMO the arenas could grow a lot larger yet. But that's not the case, there's tons of players that fly on their own at any given time, and in brief that leads to "slums". I assume it's ok to use that word since Pyro himself referred to it that way. Like I said in the other thread, there's a sweet spot. 500 isn't it, 10 isn't it either. 50 isn't it either, nor is 40-some.. I think 32 is pretty much it, or maybe a little less, I dunno. You can only improve on something (like arena or squad sizes) so much before there's only negligible improvements left to be made. I think squad sizes have a similar dynamic to the total arena populations.. It's not so simple, but those two are major factors.
I don't argue for smaller arenas. I personaly don't really care either way.. I have my squad, the rest of the game could almost go to hell and I'd still have a ball playing it... So you see, my agenda is already satisfied. As far as I'm concerned the setup is great as it is. Maybe it could be improved but it's good enough as far as my satisfaction goes.
I do think it would be worse to have larger squad limits. Like I told Chili, nothing stops anyone from coordinating multiple groups of 32 together. The point was and remains that the glue of this game is genuine friendship. Mega squads devalue this. Like it or not :)
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This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.
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This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.
No... the the arena split had nothing to do with it... or the attempt at side caps... or the attemp at fixed line capture system.
Nope... nothing was ever done about it. :rolleyes: :lol
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Suck when the creator of all things AH doesn't share your view point... ehh? :devil :aok
Wow Bunk,
In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too? I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions. Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :D :aok
PS-Please no insult intended Moot. Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.
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Wow Bunk,
In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too? I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions. Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :D:aok
pot, kettle..This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.
What issue is unresolved here?
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I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas. So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir?
A second question and completely related: Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations?
The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High. I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless. Your answer is appreciated.
<Salute>
Way
PS-Too late, I have to modify. A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line. :rolleyes:
I am the only one that quoted HiTech in this thread, so I have to reply...
#1 I am a trainer. It goes with the territory to pass along information on the bbs. Primarily in Help & Training, but it could be anywhere.
The role of the trainer is to provide aid and assistance to the player who wishes to improve thier flight skills.
...
Trainers cannot alter human behavior. They only impart information to those who are looking to improve the quality of thier gameplay.
#2 HiTech, Pyro, and Skuzzy comments are often primary sources in regards to AH so in the course of "imparting information" it's often simpler for me to take 20 seconds to pull a quote that I've already read, and repost it rather than type a freaking book explaining what's already been said.
#3 You might actually learn something by paying a little bit of attention to those who have spent years here gaining understanding and building relationships instead of trying to ridicule their efforts to share their experiences.
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Wow Bunk,
In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too? I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions. Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :D :aok
PS-Please no insult intended Moot. Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.
Well waytard (see how I did that) since squad limit is 32, what's not allowed should be self explanatory.
I'm sure being the bright boy that you are surely you could have figured that out by yourself .
Hows that for constructive. :bird
Edit: and cupcake I'm tame compared to most...LMAO venom he says.
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I am the only one that quoted HiTech in this thread, so I have to reply...
#1 I am a trainer. It goes with the territory to pass along information on the bbs. Primarily in Help & Training, but it could be anywhere.
#2 HiTech, Pyro, and Skuzzy comments are often primary sources in regards to AH so in the course of "imparting information" it's often simpler for me to take 20 seconds to pull a quote and repost it rather than type a freaking book explaining what's already been said.
#3 You might actually learn something by paying a little bit of attention to those who have spent years here gaining understanding and building relationships instead of trying to ridicule their efforts to share their experiences.
Hello Murdr,
I have learned lots from yourself and other veterans posts. Yes Moot too. Your quote was in discussion, not in a sig line as mentioned. The person in question was Bronk who added Hitech's quote into his sig line for god knows what reason other than to aggravate. Please do not assume I have any issue with yourself Sir. I question whether anyone could gain #3 from anything Bronk posts. See above post by Bunk for his attempted continuance of a heated discussion.
<Salute>
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Wow Bunk,
In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too? I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions. Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :D :aok
PS-Please no insult intended Moot. Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.
Two wrongs wont make a right Waystin.
See above post by Bunk for his attempted continuance of a heated discussion.
Takes two to tango... Ya know?
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No... the the arena split had nothing to do with it... or the attempt at side caps... or the attemp at fixed line capture system.
Nope... nothing was ever done about it. :rolleyes: :lol
It failed to work. This thread is proof.
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See above post by Bunk for his attempted continuance of a heated discussion.
<Salute>
Boyo, single me out and I bite back. I didn't single out any one mega squad for lemming like behavior. Not my fault some have a guilty conscious. I flown with the 71st on more than a few occasions, never have I witnessed lemming like behavior.
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It failed to work. This thread is proof.
TE
If mega squads fail to police themselves I'm thinking HT is going to again come up with some heavy handed solution. That is something nobody really wants, but you keep on believing it's ok. The man has stated his opinion of it. IMHO it's only a matter of time before he does something about it.
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Personally I think skwadz should be limited to 16 players.. nothing wrong with affliated wings. Vox work arounds are numerous, reflecting how it was done in r/l too? If one skwad needs comms with another, it was usually between skwad leaders, who then relayed it to the other skwad. Comm discipline, yanno? Not talking flight elements within a skwad... they already have dedicated vox. Now this would take a little more coordination and effort in running a mishun, no? just like way back when, or even today... :aok Or take the risk of using a less secure channel for mass comms.
<insert old :rolleyes>
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IN?
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Wow Bunk,
In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too? I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions. Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :D :aok
PS-Please no insult intended Moot. Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.
Nice way to treat a guy who has been answering your questions. As I see it you just do not like his answers, even though the answers are correct.
Some people love to try skirt the issue so they then can believe they are not part of the problem. Your questions about defining MEGA squad is one of those attempts. In the same post I said why the 32 squad limit was in place. I can not think of 2 many reasonable people who would not see the entire post and then understand MEGA means a squad larger than what the game allows, I.E. a squad larger than 32.
This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.
<-Says another multi-wing member, no. HiTech would have chosen a method many years ago to put limits of some degree on large squads.
Despite years of complaints, he has yet to do so.
Why do you think I put the 32 Limit on a squad, it is a limit just as you say has not been implemented.
I have put other constraints on these type of squads, there are things like this voice request that I choose to not implement simply because they promote bigger squads.
Things like the .SR command , the ability too look at the roster of other squads was left out because it has an effect on MEGA squads.
HiTech
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dont know about the hordes but 90% of field attacks with squad is maybe 10 at best.The larger missions I have ever been involved in is alliance missions.I have never been involved in a 32 player squad mission in 3 years so I cant see where mega squads are detrimental.Alot of squad base attacks are usually accompanied by single countrymen and smaller squads not associated with us.
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:O ooohhh noooesss.
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MEGA means a squad larger than what the game allows, I.E. a squad larger than 32.
Funny that most of the fights I can find these days are one side clubbing the other, rarely meeting in between.... :noid
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Well, this "argument" is over.
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Any more most of the time it you have 2 choices:
Fly with the horde or fly against the horde.
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Well, this "argument" is over.
... until the next resurrection.
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... until the next resurrection.
Yup.. just wont be happy till a heavy handed fix is implemented will you?
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... until the next resurrection.
If you reach waaaaay back over your head you might catch it before you totally miss it...
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<snip>
Did HT just agree with Bronk?? :D
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Geez, what happened to this thread? It's like they all ran away?
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Did HT just agree with Bronk?? :D
Yes, HT bought a chiuahuah.
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Yes, HT bought a chiuahuah.
Awww nothing left ehh. You know, I've yet to personally insult you, or single out specific squads. The above quote speaks volumes...really. :aok
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Geez, what happened to this thread? It's like they all ran away?
I'm not ready to think any voluntary action will be taken to break apart the mega-squads because of this.
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I'm not ready to think any voluntary action will be taken to break apart the mega-squads because of this.
Of course not, that would mean changing the status quo and that is something the mega-squadrons don't want.
ack-ack
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What are the mega squads everyone is cryin about???????? Is there some magical work around to exceeding the 32 per squad limit? or is it the fact that several like minded individuals fly together on the same vox chan. I can red between the lines and can probably guess which squads everone is referring to. None of them have the max of 32 folks in any wing (at leats actively flying all the time). It's more like a massive mission all the time. If the elite furballers were so good and their SA so great and the mega-squads skills so low (driving the fact that they need numbers) they (the leet) should relish the chance to get so many kills.
I think its more the fact that the supposed elite furballing crying sweetheartbags are jealous that they can't get along with enough folks to participate in a "mega-squad" It's all about having fun and flying with friends.
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VVVV That is all. :aok
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the supposed elite furballing crying sweetheartbags are jealous that they can't get along with enough folks to participate in a "mega-squad"
I hope that one day I will be good enough to join a mega squad. :pray
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Stodd......if you are gonna quote me, at least use the whole sentence...........not just a snippet...thats like the media picking and choosing and editing quotes to get their agenda forwarded. What I was trying to say was that the guys you hear cryin the most about supposed mega squads are generally the biggest jerks in the game..always thumping their chests ans such. Not all, but most.
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That theory has already been shown to be flawed jolly http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257403.50.html
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which part of my theory..the part about having flown with these guys for years and having fun when we are all together? I really don't see the difference between a bunch of guys flying together to accomplisha given goal and are large mission. Could someone please enlighten me?
thanks
J
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Squad ops are different IMO than large missions. Large missions are meant to bring several squads together for a common goal on one or two bases. Large squads do this over and over and over and over to smash and grab bases. Which is fine I guess but to allow it to happen over and over and over gets really...well dumb. Once again this is my thoughts and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Yes this game is about winning the war but why not make it some sort of challenge. The battle for A77 in orange (i think) was epic. Both sides had the advantage at one time and it wasn't till a huge buff mission leveled several bases that the tides turned in favor of one side. For me at least that is what it is about. As far as I know neither side had a "mega squad" doing most of the killing/dying. It was one country against the other in full out ground and air battle.
I think the reason HiTech uses 32 members for a squad rather than 16 is because the know not everyone is going to be on at the same time. They have done us a favor by allowing 32. I have always respected every squad (except one..to remain nameless) and the people in them but some are taking advantage of the system.
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which part of my theory..
This part.
{supposed elite furballers} are jealous that they can't get along with enough folks to participate in a "mega-squad"
What I was trying to say was that the guys you hear cryin the most about supposed mega squads are generally the biggest jerks in the game..always thumping their chests ans such.
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I'm not ready to think any voluntary action will be taken to break apart the mega-squads because of this.
It won't. But with all the limelight these threads are receiving now, and seeing Dale post on here, even though it's a community problem and not the game, hopefully something addresses this soon. It's really stressing to play in these slums. And it's just getting worse.
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It won't. But with all the limelight these threads are receiving now, and seeing Dale post on here, even though it's a community problem and not the game, hopefully something addresses this soon. It's really stressing to play in these slums. And it's just getting worse.
If you think that breaking up a couple "mega" squads is gonna help alleviate the perceived problems in the MAs, I think you're delusional.
You really think that guys that have been flying together for years are gonna stop doing it because they don't have a name?
I don't see how you can make people stop hanging around with each other if they choose to do so.
While I agree with you that the gameplay in the MAs has deteriorated at times to nothing but a schoolyard brawl, I don't think that Squads are any more detramental to the game than the incessantly buzzing alt monkeys or spawn campers, score hoars, etc etc.
Every now and then I will see gigantic swarms form from all sides. Personally it doesnt bother me (and no, I'm usually not a participant) If I don't feel like joining or defending against said swarm, I will simply go find something else to do on the unusually large maps we are blessed with.
When a swarm like that forms its really not too hard to stay out of its way, if you should choose to do so.
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If you think that breaking up a couple "mega" squads is gonna help alleviate the perceived problems in the MAs, I think you're delusional.
You really think that guys that have been flying together for years are gonna stop doing it because they don't have a name?
I don't see how you can make people stop hanging around with each other if they choose to do so.
I say HiTech adds Late War Yellow Arena.
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Or maybe a Pink arena for all the punkstangs to fly in.
They could spawn at 20k then climb to 30k and then run away from each other all day long.
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I don't see how you can make people stop hanging around with each other if they choose to do so.
That's not really the point though. I fly with lots of different people that I like to hang around with. They are in different squads, on different countries, and frequent different arenas. I don't fly with them all at once. Even if I could, I wouldn't because it's about as cozy as having the same "quality time" over channel 200 with them.
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Or maybe a Pink arena for all the punkstangs to fly in.
They could spawn at 20k then climb to 30k and then run away from each other all day long.
So basically, the Pink Arena would be for BoPs only?
ack-ack
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The problem isn't that swarms are gigantic, but that they allow for a lack of quality air combat anytime they're opposed by lesser numbers. I have no problem with large groups that actualy organize and teach their elements how to do justice to what the warbirds were meant for. I don't think Scotch does either. You guys have the reins on such large groups of players, you really should be responsible and teach them good ACM and/or send them to the training corps.
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I say HiTech adds Late War Yellow Arena.
I've been thinking for a while now that a Yellow or Red were a distinct possibility.
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So basically, the Pink Arena would be for BoPs only?
ack-ack
Gotta hand it to ya Ack, you sure are perseptive!
Or am I just that transparent?
Oh well gotta go climb to 20k in my Tempest/190/C-Hog etc etc and look for a co-alt fight.(yawn)
Always a pleasure.
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Here a plus side to breaking up the mega squads.
MegaSquad A has to bust up its 3 wings....for the good of the game. So those that have flown together for years move to the one squad left. This leave those that have only been with the squad a year or less. What happens to those guys? They make their own squads of course, and use some of the tactics they saw the original gang use. Of course they haven't had to depend on their skills as much because they had a number of the old guard around to help pick up the pieces, as well as maybe coordinate things a bit, so they don't have the same success. That drives them to learn more, to get better at the game. They learn how to use the "meager" resources they have and use better tactics in stead of shear numbers to accomplish the missions they try to run. How can that not be better for the game?
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Yay almost 10 pages
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Yay almost 10 pages
Only 2 for me ;)
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Here a plus side to breaking up the mega squads.
MegaSquad A has to bust up its 3 wings....for the good of the game. So those that have flown together for years move to the one squad left. This leave those that have only been with the squad a year or less. What happens to those guys? They make their own squads of course, and use some of the tactics they saw the original gang use. Of course they haven't had to depend on their skills as much because they had a number of the old guard around to help pick up the pieces, as well as maybe coordinate things a bit, so they don't have the same success. That drives them to learn more, to get better at the game. They learn how to use the "meager" resources they have and use better tactics in stead of shear numbers to accomplish the missions they try to run. How can that not be better for the game?
I don't nessesarily disagree with your theory.
But, what is to stop those 3 squads from still flying together?
They have an epiphany and say DOH!! we were wrong all along? All those other guys were right! We are "skilless lemming dweebs", lets sharpen up our acm and tactics so we can get some respect from those cool guys!
Hey who knows, if it were inroduced it just might work.
Or it just may backfire.
But then again, there are things that bother me more in this game than a bunch of "skilless lemming dweebs"flying around taking bases.
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You're ignoring the simple fact that the kind of friendship you form in a >32 player group is not the kind that HTC want for squads in AH.
You're mischaracterizing the rant on mega squads neglecting good ACM training as a rant on them being "skill-less". You've done this four times at least already, and it's not gonna stick the fifth time either.. That's not what we're saying.
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Yup.. just wont be happy till a heavy handed fix is implemented will you?
It appears to me you Bronk had started all of this and then sit back and watch the carnage, most of the good squads small, medium or large are not the cause of all of this, I agree with Moot that training, "especially for the new comers to game is very important but also not to exclude existing members is most of the ansewer", our squad does training every Tuesday, yes even ACM, as to improve the quality of game play for all our members, so maybe the ansewer lies with the induction to the game (maybe a sort of training arena boot camp for new players or anyone feels the need) and also the willingness of the more experienced members to help a fellow pilot when you clearly see he or she is not capable of matching you in air combat abilities, point out his or her deficiencies so you can have better game play also.
As some of the members in this post have said even the very big squads almost never have more than the 32 person squad limit on at any one time, at least I have never seen it, so where are you coming from with this post, where are your examples of this extreme abuse. :uhoh I do see Hitech's point of view but I wonder could that have been formed over the years of constant hammering buy people just like you who see something they don't like for wrong reasons and make it a issue of it that now has to be dealt with because of relentless whining to HT and dragging other people in with you who also may have misinterpreted or misunderstood the real problem just so you could bolster your point of view.
Now I'm not saying that people can not abuse a privilege we see every day in real life, but you can't put everybody in the same bucket as those few. Now when I've seen the so called big horde missions and it looks to me that it has multiple people from all different squads and some non squad affiliated individuals involved in it and of course they may have multiple members from one squad also in small numbers, but when do these mega squads appear in force above 32 members please let me know.
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I do see Hitech's point of view but I wonder could that have been formed over the years of constant hammering buy people just like you who see something they don't like for wrong reasons and make it a issue of it that now has to be dealt with because of relentless whining to HT and dragging other people in with you who also may have misinterpreted or misunderstood the real problem just so you could bolster your point of view.
1st, gimme a sec while I catch my breath. ;)
I'd say his opinion is formed from years as a game designer/player. I doesn't take Einstein to figure out this game/genre of game has devolved. What started out as "combat" oriented game has devolved into Zerg for teh win. Be it air to air ... GV vs GV... or base snatching. Orrrr.... do you think HT dosent monitor what is going on with his bread and butter? He must just rely on bbs rabble to form his opinion.
While not as eloquent as moot's posts. It's the same point, albeit a bit blunt.
Hows that for contributing to the thread? :D
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Not bad at all.
But these days, it's not just the 100 of you that followed HiTech..... Sure it was better back then. But you can only host the server so long in your garage. Eventually, you need to start appealing to the masses in order to, not only keep afloat, but get better. So the same 100 of you guys that ALWAYS moans and groans about the old days............. Need to realize that those days are gone. Either make a new home, or go play AW or another of those lame, fake AH's.
Hows that for contributing to the thread? :D
And...... Since nobody seems to talk about it............ What is HTC going to do about the Mega-Squad issue......? NOTHING.
Why? Because nothing can be done in and of itself. Make it 16, now it's just different squad names on the same channel. Doesn't matter if there are 3 RT's, 2 J0ker's & 6 BOP's................ We can make the names so far away from eachother and it wont make a difference. In the end, VOX channels don't have a limit. And even if they did, who uses Channel anyways? Go get Vent!!!
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"Mega", "Multi". & "Mission". The :t Aces High Three Evils :t
Take your pick.
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Not bad at all.
But these days, it's not just the 100 of you that followed HiTech..... Sure it was better back then. But you can only host the server so long in your garage. Eventually, you need to start appealing to the masses in order to, not only keep afloat, but get better. So the same 100 of you guys that ALWAYS moans and groans about the old days............. Need to realize that those days are gone. Either make a new home, or go play AW or another of those lame, fake AH's.
And...... Since nobody seems to talk about it............ What is HTC going to do about the Mega-Squad issue......? NOTHING.
Why? Because nothing can be done in and of itself. Make it 16, now it's just different squad names on the same channel. Doesn't matter if there are 3 RT's, 2 J0ker's & 6 BOP's................ We can make the names so far away from eachother and it wont make a difference. In the end, VOX channels don't have a limit. And even if they did, who uses Channel anyways? Go get Vent!!!
Expand AH to XBOX. Yeah, that's gonna be great for the quality of air combat. Why not just sell to EA while you're at it? "Not only keep afloat but get better"? Where exactly are you seeing this trend? We're already getting more and more drones that couldn't ACM their way out of a wet paper bag, bomb & bailers, lancstukas, totaly bogus stick stir floppy fishing that'd have real planes spinning out and pilots trashed against the cockpit and canopy, conga lines on a single con ("if I can't have fun, why should he??") while more cons clearly on the way with altitude, players without a dang clue how to play the game basicaly; and no interest in learning to.
"We" are the ones that should realize AH isn't about air combat anymore? Are you kidding? If that's what you're trying to get rid of here, it's you that's not gonna last and better look elsewhere for your vision of airquake with bloated squads of players that don't even know each other and can't even compete without 5x as many players as anyone else. I don't know if that's what BOP or Rolling Thunder or Joker's squad are yet, but that is definitely what we'll get if we let it become the norm.
"Mega", "Multi". & "Mission". The :t Aces High Three Evils :t
Take your pick.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257564.msg3192109.html#msg3192109
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Just to make my stance very clear, I never said that "MEGA" squads increase things like bad game play in the Arenas. This may or may not be the case. What I did say that as groups get larger the social dynamics change in a way that make squads much less personal. Simply put you can not know as much about many people, as you do about a few people. Hence real friendship diminishes in larger groups. It is much easier to to get to know just a few people, and have more fun with them. This is the only reason I have set squad limits.
LLogann : Wrote
And...... Since nobody seems to talk about it............ What is HTC going to do about the Mega-Squad issue......? NOTHING.
Why? Because nothing can be done in and of itself. Make it 16, now it's just different squad names on the same channel. Doesn't matter if there are 3 RT's, 2 J0ker's & 6 BOP's................ We can make the names so far away from eachother and it wont make a difference. In the end, VOX channels don't have a limit. And even if they did, who uses Channel anyways? Go get Vent!!!
Do not fool yourself into believing nothing can be done about it. There are many Ideas I know of that would solve many issues,including the large squad issue. A simple one would be to assign people to an arena. The question I ask is simply where the break even is on being heavy handed.
HiTech
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1st, gimme a sec while I catch my breath. ;)
I'd say his opinion is formed from years as a game designer/player. I doesn't take Einstein to figure out this game/genre of game has devolved. What started out as "combat" oriented game has devolved into Zerg for teh win. Be it air to air ... GV vs GV... or base snatching. Orrrr.... do you think HT dosent monitor what is going on with his bread and butter? He must just rely on bbs rabble to form his opinion.
While not as eloquent as moot's posts. It's the same point, albeit a bit blunt.
Hows that for contributing to the thread? :D
Better, I do realize that HT had his own opinion based on his experience and expertise but he is also a businesses man and since keeping his clients here is one of his ultimate goals I would think that his decision making would be tempered based on the feed back from his clients, (sometimes the squeaky wheel should not be greased). On the point of how this game started as a "combat" oriented game and how is has devolved, I can not concur with that opinion, my opinion would be that a evolution of the game is inevitable due to it's popularity into a more complete immersion combat sim ie: tactical country missions, achieving control of enemy territories is just some parts of it.
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Sqd71 is the only very large squad that I know of that doesn't follow the trend of large squads neglecting quality air combat, acm, etc, over trying for the biggest possible buddy list excuse for a "social" multi-wing squad.
" On the point of how this game started as a "combat" oriented game and how is has devolved, I can not concur with that opinion, my opinion would be that a evolution of the game is inevitable due to it's popularity into a more complete immersion combat sim ie: tactical country missions, achieving control of enemy territories is just some parts of it. "
You can't seriously pretend this when the lumps of players you throw around don't even know how to fight. Is it just a coincidence that this gets worse the larger the squads get? I don't think so. It's all just one big hodgepodge of icons, there's no organisation. A strike force is an organized force, not a random group of elements thrown randomly at random targets. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen squads organize into proper elements, as you should if you're going to pretend you're flying tactical country missions. Your excuse is bogus, sorry.
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The Hand question is a good one sir! And you'll please forgive, I was simply trying to stress the idea that we, as humans, evolve and figure out new and different ways to achieve a goal.
LLogann : Wrote
Do not fool yourself into believing nothing can be done about it. There are many Ideas I know of that would solve many issues,including the large squad issue. A simple one would be to assign people to an arena. The question I ask is simply where the break even is on being heavy handed.
HiTech
And as so many have already said......... I'm in what some may call a Mega...... But quite honestly, when you go down the roster, there might be 9 of us playing, midday 2. 6 BOP squads and only 8 people are online. It's very rare, aside from squad night, that EVERYBODY, or even half of everybody, is online playing together.
In the end, there is nothing that can be done about the things people complain about is what I should have said........... :rock
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In the end, there is nothing that can be done about the things people complain about is what I should have said........... :rock
Wow, hitech threatens to take action, and you tell him he is impotent? What temerity! Keep provoking him, I'd love to see what happens.
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You must have been reading a different reply there cowboy. But it was a cute try. Do you like being cute? Can I put a pink bow in your hair for you? :D
Wow, hitech threatens to take action, and you tell him he is impotent? What temerity! Keep provoking him, I'd love to see what happens.
But you are right about one thing Daddy-o........ Danger and disregard for safety are my middle names!
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Sqd71 is the only very large squad that I know of that doesn't follow the trend of large squads neglecting quality air combat, acm, etc, over trying for the biggest possible buddy list excuse for a "social" multi-wing squad.
" On the point of how this game started as a "combat" oriented game and how is has devolved, I can not concur with that opinion, my opinion would be that a evolution of the game is inevitable due to it's popularity into a more complete immersion combat sim ie: tactical country missions, achieving control of enemy territories is just some parts of it. "
You can't seriously pretend this when the lumps of players you throw around don't even know how to fight. Is it just a coincidence that this gets worse the larger the squads get? I don't think so.
Well since I think you were actually training our CO (he had very nice things say about you) and if you go to the training arena on Tuesdays @ 7:30 EST you will see how wrong you are at least about our squad, we put a very high priority on training on all aspects of the game. Also I like to say that people can only learn their skills at each of their own abilities allow, it is as you you know always a work in progress and that's what we emphasise to our squad members so as not discourage them also, I would hope you do the same for the people you train.
I would gladly invite you to our forum to see our internal rules that all squad members must follow or they will not be in the squad for long. So as far the comments about throwing around lumps of players who don't even know how to fight, I must take issue with that, we are one of the few squads that will take new player to game into our squad and help them to best of our ability we cannot make as good as you overnight but they do get better over time and become very good friends even if they leave the squad.
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other? Some of the best times I've ever had in game were when Lev, Morph and especially hub were on the other side and we all went at it killing each other relentlessly. You want to learn how someone in your squad flies to get to know them and wing with them better? Fight them. You learn people's styles and tendencies, what they can and can't do, and in a wierd way it brings you closer together.
I know most will cry and say this defeats the purpose of a squad, but I say hogwash. You can't knock it 'til you try it, and it would help immensely with gameplay.
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other? Some of the best times I've ever had in game were when Lev, Morph and especially hub were on the other side and we all went at it killing each other relentlessly. You want to learn how someone in your squad flies to get to know them and wing with them better? Fight them. You learn people's styles and tendencies, what they can and can't do, and in a wierd way it brings you closer together.
I know most will cry and say this defeats the purpose of a squad, but I say hogwash. You can't knock it 'til you try it, and it would help immensely with gameplay.
I agree Stang, this in no way defeats the purpose of a squad. This is something that the Pigs do on a regular basis. Usually about once a week or so you will see us disappear and go to the DA. It is definitely a hoot!
<Salute>
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other? Some of the best times I've ever had in game were when Lev, Morph and especially hub were on the other side and we all went at it killing each other relentlessly. You want to learn how someone in your squad flies to get to know them and wing with them better? Fight them. You learn people's styles and tendencies, what they can and can't do, and in a wierd way it brings you closer together.
I know most will cry and say this defeats the purpose of a squad, but I say hogwash. You can't knock it 'til you try it, and it would help immensely with gameplay.
that is a good idea stang, but would you be able to concentrate with everybody yelling SPIES!!!???!!! at you :t
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other? Some of the best times I've ever had in game were when Lev, Morph and especially hub were on the other side and we all went at it killing each other relentlessly. You want to learn how someone in your squad flies to get to know them and wing with them better? Fight them. You learn people's styles and tendencies, what they can and can't do, and in a wierd way it brings you closer together.
I know most will cry and say this defeats the purpose of a squad, but I say hogwash. You can't knock it 'til you try it, and it would help immensely with gameplay.
Well funny you should say that; that is also part of what we do in training after we hold our training class, (sometimes we even go to the DA and split the squad members up and do just what you are saying), but we do not do that in MA.
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That is why we go to the DA/TA. And it's the right way to go Stang, that is for sure! <S>
that is a good idea stang, but would you be able to concentrate with everybody yelling SPIES!!!???!!! at you :t
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lol. The whole point is to do it in the MA. Anything else you're still fighting, true, but not improving the slum in the LW arenas. If you fight each other there it creates a more balanced and less hordish environment.
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But that would then go back to Bruv's point about "spies"
UGH.... One of these days I'm going to de-tune 200. (Been saying that for 2 years)
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lol, if you really cared about what others thought you guys wouldn't steamroll bases noe like a bunch of lemmings constantly. I doubt a few paranoid squeaks about spies would do anymore harm.
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You know for the last few weeks we've been giving you the Dar right?
NOE is no longer a decent arguement.
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other? Some of the best times I've ever had in game were when Lev, Morph and especially hub were on the other side and we all went at it killing each other relentlessly. You want to learn how someone in your squad flies to get to know them and wing with them better? Fight them. You learn people's styles and tendencies, what they can and can't do, and in a wierd way it brings you closer together.
I know most will cry and say this defeats the purpose of a squad, but I say hogwash. You can't knock it 'til you try it, and it would help immensely with gameplay.
I think thats a GREAT IDEA!!
Oh, wait , we already do that.
Damn! We already have training nights too.
And we all seem to know each other pretty well too. Not sure how we do it.
I think there are alot of misconceptions about multi-wing squads, perpetrated by ignorance.
Its hard to argue with ignorance.
So now this is about the "quality" of our friendship??
Hey Bronk!! How'd ya like to be "assigned" to an arena??
There won't be any multi-wing squads and everyone will be reeeeeal friendly, and I'm sure the quality of the fights will be stellar!!
Sounds Peachy! :aok
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lol. The whole point is to do it in the MA. Anything else you're still fighting, true, but not improving the slum in the LW arenas. If you fight each other there it creates a more balanced and less hordish environment.
No that is your point only, this thread has nothing to do with balancing.
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Well since I think you were actually training our CO (he had very nice things say about you) and if you go to the training arena on Tuesdays @ 7:30 EST you will see how wrong you are at least about our squad, we put a very high priority on training on all aspects of the game. Also I like to say that people can only learn their skills at each of their own abilities allow, it is as you you know always a work in progress and that's what we emphasise to our squad members so as not discourage them also, I would hope you do the same for the people you train.
I would gladly invite you to our forum to see our internal rules that all squad members must follow or they will not be in the squad for long. So as far the comments about throwing around lumps of players who don't even know how to fight, I must take issue with that, we are one of the few squads that will take new player to game into our squad and help them to best of our ability we cannot make as good as you overnight but they do get better over time and become very good friends even if they leave the squad.
Make no mistake.. I'm only interested in quality air combat. I don't care what you do inside your squad and don't have any interest in meddling with it. If helping out Falcon pays off that way, I'll be glad for it.. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on my assumption if you really are training your members. That's all I care about. Quality air combat.
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we od the DA in teams-it is alot of fun and it does help you and learn others strength's and weakness
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I think thats a GREAT IDEA!!
Oh, wait , we already do that.
Damn! We already have training nights too.
And we all seem to know each other pretty well too. Not sure how we do it.
I think there are alot of misconceptions about multi-wing squads, perpetrated by ignorance.
Its hard to argue with ignorance.
So now this is about the "quality" of our friendship??
Hey Bronk!! How'd ya like to be "assigned" to an arena??
There won't be any multi-wing squads and everyone will be reeeeeal friendly, and I'm sure the quality of the fights will be stellar!!
Sounds Peachy! :aok
You missed half of my argument entirely Boner, or just chose not to engage it. The whole point is when you have a big squad that has the ability to unbalance gameplay, why not on occasion split up and fight each other from two different sides to keep things more balanced and more fun for all. The bigger your group, the bigger your influence on everyone's experience in game. Fighting each other in the DA is great and all, but has zero effect on what happens nightly in the MA. And my whole point was about the MA... sorry I didn't actually say the letters M and A in my post, but if you read it it's painfully obvious what I was referring to.
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The only night we might have an "impact" on gameplay in the MA is on Monday nights, which is our "squad night".
It has been put forward many times that even on our squad night,we might field 20 to 30 guys.
That figure would be pretty easy to disprove, yet it hasn't been done.
Again, on most every night in the MA, I think you would be hard pressed to find more than 10 or 12 guys from our squad in the MA.
And I would bet if you actually investigated further, you would find that most of them are off doing different things in different parts of the map.
But these "facts" seem to be ignored by the anti multi-wing crowd (a small, yet vocal minority)
If Multi-wing squads were wiped off the map today, do you really think that swarms of people taking bases will stop??
Do you think that you will encounter a plethora of "quality" fights all of a sudden?
Granted there are inherant problems when you put 400 or more people in an arena together.
But I think that you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction and are preparing to burn the wrong witch.
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The only night we might have an "impact" on gameplay in the MA is on Monday nights, which is our "squad night".
It has been put forward many times that even on our squad night,we might field 20 to 30 guys.
That figure would be pretty easy to disprove, yet it hasn't been done.
Again, on most every night in the MA, I think you would be hard pressed to find more than 10 or 12 guys from our squad in the MA.
And I would bet if you actually investigated further, you would find that most of them are off doing different things in different parts of the map.
But these "facts" seem to be ignored by the anti multi-wing crowd (a small, yet vocal minority)
If Multi-wing squads were wiped off the map today, do you really think that swarms of people taking bases will stop??
Do you think that you will encounter a plethora of "quality" fights all of a sudden?
Granted there are inherant problems when you put 400 or more people in an arena together.
But I think that you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction and are preparing to burn the wrong witch.
Did I ever say Bop in my reply or original post? The only reason I responded to you was you replied to my post.. calling me ignorant btw, thanks.
If you shout loud enough does it make the facts go away? The only person I slammed was Logan, rightly so for what he posted on the last two pages, basically saying he and his squad are going to do what they want and damn the effect it has. Which made me reply with the bigger the group, the more you influence other people's fun, for good or worse, but usually for the worse. In Rolling Thunder's case I'd argue mostly worse, especially since he said they've actually been flying above radar the last two weeks.
:lol
Every post arguing against you guys by moot, murdr, hitech, or many others here lays out point by point what the problem is and why. Every response is met by you and others by cries of you're ignorant, we can't be denied our fun, we'll do what we want, in Logan's case you can't stop us, etc. Try replying to each post in a rational manner and not shrieks that drown out the argument. It just makes you look silly, and might I say, ignorant.
There, now I took a shot at you.
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I fly the 190's........ can I get some love sir?
Make no mistake.. I'm only interested in quality air combat. I don't care what you do inside your squad and don't have any interest in meddling with it. If helping out Falcon pays off that way, I'll be glad for it.. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on my assumption if you really are training your members. That's all I care about. Quality air combat.
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Shrieks?
I thought I was responding to error filled accusations and myths, point by point.
Stang if I called you or anyone else in "ignorant", believe me I certainly didn't mean it.
Things get said sometimes in a heated argument that will sometimes make both sides sound ignorant.
I suppose an apology is in order.
That said, even though you didn't name my squad point blank, you will have to admit that we have taken a bashing from the vocal minority on these boards and are understandably a little defensive.
And I stand by my statements that the Bops have NO negative impact on this game.
If someone could explain to me how 20 to 30 guys getting togther ONE night a week negatively affects gameplay, I would pay attention.
I have yet to see an intelligent answer to that question from ANYONE.
I'm beggin ya, make me a believer!
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Why don't mega squads break up on a given night, pick two sides and fight each other?
Ranger has hosted many such nights for the BOPs. I am inquiring if he will again this week or I may host it as he hasn't been feeling too great.
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Shrieks?
I thought I was responding to error filled accusations and myths, point by point.
Stang if I called you or anyone else in "ignorant", believe me I certainly didn't mean it.
Things get said sometimes in a heated argument that will sometimes make both sides sound ignorant.
I suppose an apology is in order.
That said, even though you didn't name my squad point blank, you will have to admit that we have taken a bashing from the vocal minority on these boards and are understandably a little defensive.
And I stand by my statements that the Bops have NO negative impact on this game.
If someone could explain to me how 20 to 30 guys getting togther ONE night a week negatively affects gameplay, I would pay attention.
I have yet to see an intelligent answer to that question from ANYONE.
I'm beggin ya, make me a believer!
I think what the vocal minority is saying.... is that you vets that lead these newbs to this way of playing the game, inherently.....over time....take away from why the game was originally created....air combat.... now, that doesn't mean having a sqd night and taking a base is bad, not at all, that is perfectly fine....... but 20 - 30 squaddies, not to mention the 10 to 12 others that jump on board....and noe an undefended base....which has become the MO of some.... so, what it has become is a breeding ground for a fight avoiding, landgrabbing mentality...which is at odds to the reason for the games creation...to stimulate air to air combat....and some of you fellas are the ones promoting it....hence the adverse commentary by said vocal minority..... :aok
Now, as for me....I don't even like to up and defend against those types of raids because there is no fight in them... if you see 30 coming in, that means you have to dodge 29 HO's...(goons can't HO)...which is not fun in the least...and involves absolutely no acm....which is what the base taking part of the game is supposed to promote. It's like the bomb n bail, or the pork and auger....you just can't get a fight out of them. :aok
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I fly the 190's........ can I get some love sir?
I have to fix my mic.. Got Creative tech support on it.. It's out of my hands for now. Very frustrating.
If someone could explain to me how 20 to 30 guys getting togther ONE night a week negatively affects gameplay, I would pay attention.
If you never have more than 20 or 30 guys a night.. Why even have multi wing squads? Or to put it another way, why argue for higher caps on the squads?
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Make no mistake.. I'm only interested in quality air combat. I don't care what you do inside your squad and don't have any interest in meddling with it. If helping out Falcon pays off that way, I'll be glad for it.. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on my assumption if you really are training your members. That's all I care about. Quality air combat.
I invited you so you could see for yourself, not to meddle but prove my point about our squad.
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I think what the vocal minority is saying.... is that you vets that lead these newbs to this way of playing the game, inherently.....over time....take away from why the game was originally created....air combat.... now, that doesn't mean having a sqd night and taking a base is bad, not at all, that is perfectly fine....... but 20 - 30 squaddies, not to mention the 10 to 12 others that jump on board....and noe an undefended base....which has become the MO of some.... so, what it has become is a breeding ground for a fight avoiding, landgrabbing mentality...which is at odds to the reason for the games creation...to stimulate air to air combat....and some of you fellas are the ones promoting it....hence the adverse commentary by said vocal minority..... :aok
Now, as for me....I don't even like to up and defend against those types of raids because there is no fight in them... if you see 30 coming in, that means you have to dodge 29 HO's...(goons can't HO)...which is not fun in the least...and involves absolutely no acm....which is what the base taking part of the game is supposed to promote. It's like the bomb n bail, or the pork and auger....you just can't get a fight out of them. :aok
Oooooooh' pullin out the noe card!
Not sure what game you play, but I don't see that many noes happening. And I personally like to up against them when I do.
And fight avoiding?? Have you ever looked up while playing this game?
Lots and lots of planes up there, just try to get up to their altitude to engage them.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you what happens when you try to "fight" them , do I??
Try looking down sometimes too.
I love all the WTGs when some spawn camper lands 37 kills in his T-34.
What can we do to stop that type of behavior?
Avoiding fights?
Theres alot of ways to avoid fighting in here, some are just more blatant than others.
Pointing the finger at Multi-wing squads as the major cause of this kind of behavior is really just plain silly.
I apreciate a great fight as much as the vocal minority does.
But when you walk into a bar you can't expect every girl in there to be a "10".
I take em when I can find em.
Again I will ask, If multi-wing squads were wiped off the map today, how would the game change??
There wouldn't be anymore noe base grabs? , running alt monkeys? everyone would suddenly be honorable and respectful?
You think guys would all of a sudden be lining up at the Trainers front door to learn how to really fly like Dick Bong?
I would venture to say that a year down the road after the demise of the "Boogie Squads" nothing will have changed in the game.
Nothing.
There are alot more regular squads than multi winged squads, so why has that community not stepped up to plate to correct the abhorent behavior they supposedly despise so?
You can't say that the community is so outraged about this behavior that nothing can be done about it because 20 or 30 guys play one night a week.
Is our influence that overpowering?
I think you would be exagerating if you thought or said so.
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AND....... The one thing that RookKnights don't ever see, is how many times a J0ker / Falcon23 mission only gets 6 people, 2 of which are goons and we still go............
Both of these fine sticks don't automatically get 30 volunteers every time. And if you think that is really the case, come fly Bish for a night.
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AND....... The one thing that RookKnights don't ever see, is how many times a J0ker / Falcon23 mission only gets 6 people, 2 of which are goons and we still go............
Both of these fine sticks don't automatically get 30 volunteers every time. And if you think that is really the case, come fly Bish for a night.
FalcnWng is the only movie star that always gets his men.
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I cant believe this thread is still up...
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Just to make my stance very clear, I never said that "MEGA" squads increase things like bad game play in the Arenas. This may or may not be the case. What I did say that as groups get larger the social dynamics change in a way that make squads much less personal. Simply put you can not know as much about many people, as you do about a few people. Hence real friendship diminishes in larger groups. It is much easier to to get to know just a few people, and have more fun with them. This is the only reason I have set squad limits.
HiTech
Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?
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Yawn
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^^^^^
Guided missle.
:P
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Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?
Okay. Now for my 2 pennies on it. I am one of those noob squadies. I am not an excellent ACM guy but I am trying to get better. Bronk, you have nailed me to the ground more than a few times. We do train on our squad night. Tonight's was practicing on dive bombing, which I still suck at. We have in our squad a person of incredible skill who is our primary training officer for ACM and I have learned loads from him. I read Fighter Combat twice. And I'm STILL not as good as most of the folks in the game at acm. I do much better in a tank.
My point is, from day one in RT I was NEVER asked to be a sacrifice fly. When the best I could do was get a goon to town without hitting a tree, I was always given constructive criticism and encouragement by my squadron. That has not changed, or my squadron affiliation would have
BTW Bronk, The last time you shot me down, if I recall correctly, It was three against one while we defended a base and it was a B&Z from ten thousand feet above me. I'd have to check my gun cams to be sure, but that's not what I really call ACM.
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I invited you so you could see for yourself, not to meddle but prove my point about our squad.
I'm not seeing it..
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Okay. Now for my 2 pennies on it. I am one of those noob squadies. I am not an excellent ACM guy but I am trying to get better. Bronk, you have nailed me to the ground more than a few times. We do train on our squad night. Tonight's was practicing on dive bombing, which I still suck at. We have in our squad a person of incredible skill who is our primary training officer for ACM and I have learned loads from him. I read Fighter Combat twice. And I'm STILL not as good as most of the folks in the game at acm. I do much better in a tank.
My point is, from day one in RT I was NEVER asked to be a sacrifice fly. When the best I could do was get a goon to town without hitting a tree, I was always given constructive criticism and encouragement by my squadron. That has not changed, or my squadron affiliation would have
BTW Bronk, The last time you shot me down, if I recall correctly, It was three against one while we defended a base and it was a B&Z from ten thousand feet above me. I'd have to check my gun cams to be sure, but that's not what I really call ACM.
See... you're taking this personal... don't.
I'll give ya a " for example" When I first started playing this type of game was 96/97 (in AW). A bunch of dweebs called the pigstompers, IIRC about 12 members took me in. They answered every stupid question I threw at them and I had alot of em. We went from AOL to gamestorm right up to the demise of AW3. *shakes fist at EA* I took a break from air combat games for quite a while. Then one day I ran across AH and said "what the hell". My second day I scanned the roster and read "1ijac". I tuned him and asked if was the same from aw. The answer I got was an instant invite back into the squad. It was like I never left.
Now if you think you're going to get that same experience with a squad pushing over 32 members... good luck to you. It might happen but I doubt it.
I'd just like to say the dweebs I'm flying with now are just as dweeby. :P
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I understand HiTech's point about not being able to build "relationships" when numbers in a squad become very large, but consider . . .
I fly mostly Friday and Saturday nights. When I fly, there are usually 3 squaddies whom I have gotten to know rather well. We have that strong relationship HiTech is talking about.
Let's say two of those three also play Sundays, when I and one other player can't play. So, let's say they recruit two other good friends to play at that time, since our magic number is 4.
Well, those two guys play Mondays and Tuesdays. They get bored with only having 2 on Tuesdays, so they recruit 2 people to get to 4 people on line. Those two happen to play Tuesdays and Wednesdays. See where I am going?
Granted, to Hitech's point, as a Saturday flyer I may never, ever see or interact with a Wednesday flyer in the game. That doesn't mean there isn't a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing going on. I may only ever interact and be great friends with a grand total of 5 individuals, but our squad would show on the roster as 28 people, and we would never have more than 4 people on per night.
Let's up it to 3 people playing the same two nights a week, and a "perfectly" staggered line up like I described grows the squad to 42 players, yet never more than 6 per night, still a low number to have those strong bonds of friendship in the game. Add a few time zone changes, and . . .
And it is a highly contrived, highly academic exercise, to be sure. But I hope it illustrates the point that >32 people on a roster does not necessarily mean there are no bonds of friendship to build that kind of loyalty to the squad and, by extension, the game.
For the record, I have never belonged to a multi-winged squad, and our current squad size is 10.
P.S. PLEASE have mercy and DON'T do the forced assignment thing! If the situation in my chosen arena stinks, I would much prefer having the option to change arenas rather than logging out for the evening!
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I understand HiTech's point about not being able to build "relationships" when numbers in a squad become very large, but consider . . .
I fly mostly Friday and Saturday nights. When I fly, there are usually 3 squaddies whom I have gotten to know rather well. We have that strong relationship HiTech is talking about.
Let's say two of those three also play Sundays, when I and one other player can't play. So, let's say they recruit two other good friends to play at that time, since our magic number is 4.
Well, those two guys play Mondays and Tuesdays. They get bored with only having 2 on Tuesdays, so they recruit 2 people to get to 4 people on line. Those two happen to play Tuesdays and Wednesdays. See where I am going?
Granted, to Hitech's point, as a Saturday flyer I may never, ever see or interact with a Wednesday flyer in the game. That doesn't mean there isn't a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" thing going on. I may only ever interact and be great friends with a grand total of 5 individuals, but our squad would show on the roster as 28 people, and we would never have more than 4 people on per night.
Let's up it to 3 people playing the same two nights a week, and a "perfectly" staggered line up like I described grows the squad to 42 players, yet never more than 6 per night, still a low number to have those strong bonds of friendship in the game. Add a few time zone changes, and . . .
And it is a highly contrived, highly academic exercise, to be sure. But I hope it illustrates the point that >32 people on a roster does not necessarily mean there are no bonds of friendship to build that kind of loyalty to the squad and, by extension, the game.
For the record, I have never belonged to a multi-winged squad, and our current squad size is 10.
P.S. PLEASE have mercy and DON'T do the forced assignment thing! If the situation in my chosen arena stinks, I would much prefer having the option to change arenas rather than logging out for the evening!
So tell me ...do you think your hypothetical squad would ever be as close knit as my example above?
As a whole. not the little cliques formed within.
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So tell me ...do you think your hypothetical squad would ever be as close knit as my example above?
Why wouldn't it? I see the same 4-6 people all the time. Heaven forbid, HTC closes down, BrandX opens up, after a year I finally try BrandX, see one or more of those 4-6 in a squad -- why wouldn't that instant kinship be there?
Response to your edit: The "cliques" formed within are actually my point. If the primary reason against "mega squads" is that they do not breed the types of relationships that are necessary to build loyalty to a group or the game, then I am not certain the logic is 100% sound. Small group dynamics within the larger whole can and do occur. Squads within a country can be one example, but "cliques" within a squad can be another. Cliques that have overlapping members make the roster grow, but IMO does not necessarily mean the relationships are deminished on the whole.
The problem might be for a newcomer breaking into one of those "cliques", I suppose. I'll have to give that one a bit more thought.
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I should have known this would be from you.
Bronk, I invite you to fly with bish or us sometime, maybe we can get to know you a bit.
I really cant believe that you truly think the way you do and I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know what your talking about, but your off, way off.
Kinda my my point about using the newbs as fodder. Smaller groups don't tend to do this. When ya have an excess of squadies ... why not use em as guided missiles?
I think there are alot of misconceptions about multi-wing squads, perpetrated by ignorance.
Its hard to argue with ignorance.
I cant believe I actually spent the hour and a half to read this whole debacle, but I did. Out of all of what I saw these were the two quotes that sum it all up.
This Mountain of a mole hill is just getting lame. I mentioned how the BBS is becoming the problem for grievers to rally up some troops for the cause of the flavor of the week, I was hoping I would be wrong. I believe it now. This is getting out of hand.
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Okay. Now for my 2 pennies on it. I am one of those noob squadies. I am not an excellent ACM guy but I am trying to get better. Bronk, you have nailed me to the ground more than a few times. We do train on our squad night. Tonight's was practicing on dive bombing, which I still suck at. We have in our squad a person of incredible skill who is our primary training officer for ACM and I have learned loads from him. I read Fighter Combat twice. And I'm STILL not as good as most of the folks in the game at acm. I do much better in a tank.
My point is, from day one in RT I was NEVER asked to be a sacrifice fly. When the best I could do was get a goon to town without hitting a tree, I was always given constructive criticism and encouragement by my squadron. That has not changed, or my squadron affiliation would have
BTW Bronk, The last time you shot me down, if I recall correctly, It was three against one while we defended a base and it was a B&Z from ten thousand feet above me. I'd have to check my gun cams to be sure, but that's not what I really call ACM.
First, let me say I'm not picking on you or your squad Cee64E, but I would like to use your situation as an example.
You say your not very good in a plane, but are trying, and thats cool, but in a mission your a small part of the whole. With a mega squad you are more comfortable because even tho you think your not very good your squad mates have your back and will cover for you. As a principle, thats cool, but from a training stand point its a crutch. You don't have to get better because someone else will cover it for you. You don't have the same motivation as someone in a smaller squad. They have less people, so to be able to handle the same missions they have to be that much better. This is what I see is the problem with the mega squads. Not that they aren't training, but that maybe most aren't learning, because so many people have there back.
When I was CO of a big squad I would figure out what I needed to take the base. I knew my squad was good for 70% hit rate with bombs. I would load the missions with those numbers and very few extras. If I didn't have enough people to hit two bases at once the surplus went on to the next base to prep it, not to over load the main attack. The point is we force each player to handle his load. They all knew we where counting on them to hit what was expected of them. Sure sometimes we missed, but when you hit dead on, there was a thrill of accomplishment. If it takes ten bricks to do the job, and you only bring 12 you better make as few mistakes as possible. You fight smarter, better, harder. Today, mega squads throw a whole wall of bricks at it. They don't care how many hit and it doesn't take a lot of skill. It doesn't force anyone to get better, it doesn't hold anyone accountable.
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Just an idea I thought I'd throw out about constraining/balancing the horde attacks.
Perhaps a dynamic hardness system that changes the ordinance required to take down a hanger (at that specific feld only) if too many enemy cons (20+) are within say 6K yards . So if 20 enemy show up that hanger automatically doubles to 6K per hanger.
Or perhaps a dynamic ground lethality system so if 20+ NOE show up, the GroundAutoLethality kicks up to 100 at that field only. Nothing would stop a horde faster than AutoLethality at 100!
Just a couple ideas to ponder, or rip to shreads, depending on your side of the debate.
Baumer
btw sorry if these ideas have all ready been brought up and rejected. I didn't search before posting them.
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I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
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Do the math Syko. You can design a game that has low adherence, or one with stronger bonds between its players. Which would you pick? You get to use vent or other external means of support for your multi-wing squad. How is that biting the hand that "feeds" him?
I still don't see that forum.
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
HiTech clarified this in an earlier post by saying
"Just to make my stance very clear, I never said that "MEGA" squads increase things like bad game play in the Arenas. This may or may not be the case. What I did say that as groups get larger the social dynamics change in a way that make squads much less personal. Simply put you can not know as much about many people, as you do about a few people. Hence real friendship diminishes in larger groups. It is much easier to to get to know just a few people, and have more fun with them. This is the only reason I have set squad limits."
Fred
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
You would all quit? For some odd reason I seriously doubt that.
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
Wow .... sunk to thinly veiled threats to HT.... well done. I'm sure you realize that always works well.
As to my "whineing". I have the opinion that a smaller squad is closer knit group. This leads to more of a focus on quality of the squad players over quantity. What you end up with in the long run is a closer community as a whole. The community will have more respect/empathy for other squads. Instead of mega squad "x" absorbing every noob that they run across they have to become more selective, almost forcing more quality time with the noob.
I can see how some could deny this being better for a better game experience. What with all the HO, perk this AC cuz its to uber, the collision model is bogus... ect ect ect threads on the bbs.
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See... you're taking this personal... don't.
Actually I don't care how nor how many times you shoot me down. I still have fun playing the game. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't play and I certainly wouldn't pay for the privilege. So believe me I am not taking this personal. What I am doing is pointing out that you've been ranting away at multi-wing squads being bad because of all the noobs that can't do anything but HO or fly in a huge horde and how the leaders of such squads just use them for cannon fodder, all of which sucks down the "quality of play" for incredible sticks like you who obviously live for the turn and burn fight at tree top level. At least that's what I've taken from your rants...
But it seems to me you're like those folks who claim to only watch "intelligent, public TV" and then get caught sneaking in a few episodes of "Dallas" and "Extreme Championship Wrestling". People who fly glass airplanes... Am I as good as you? Not yet. Maybe not ever. Does that "matter" to me? Not at all.
I'm here to fly with the guys I fly with. I may not know them all as well as I know some, but we all share that common bond. It's like hanging out with a few Friends from work, some of whom happen to work in a different department. We all work for the same place and we all do what we do for that place. Come to think of it, that's not unlike the social dynamics of the tank battalion I served with in the army. I imagine that the fighter squadrons are not much different.
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
I really like how you brought up the one thing that HiTech clearly doesn't care about in regards to this conversation (making more money at the cost of his game's environment).
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But it seems to me you're like those folks who claim to only watch "intelligent, public TV" and then get caught sneaking in a few episodes of "Dallas" and "Extreme Championship Wrestling". People who fly glass airplanes... Am I as good as you? Not yet. Maybe not ever. Does that "matter" to me? Not at all.
LMAO
If you are inferring that I, on occasion commit acts of unsurpassed dweebyness? Well color me guilty. I am also capable of holding my own in a fair fight. Since you appear to want to make this a personal issue... can you say the same?
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
If you disbanded your squad maybe a few would quit. Maybe...
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So if they make multi-wing squads disband, will they then stop a nameless crowd of over 32 people from attacking a base?
Most of the absolutely huge missions that I see in this game are "open" missions announced on country channel.
And although this has been stated many many times before, I guess some people need to hear it again, most multi-wing squads hardly ever have more that 15 or 20 guys on at a time and that would include "squad night".
Same guys, same complaints.
You guys are startin to sound like Charlie Browns teacher---blah blah blah blah.
Hiding in a horde--lmfao!!
And I couldn't care less about anyones so called "skills"or lack of them, its a frickin game.
the cjs get about 120 ppl on on monday & tuesday during squad night its funny as hell
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As to my "whineing". I have the opinion that a smaller squad is closer knit group. This leads to more of a focus on quality of the squad players over quantity. What you end up with in the long run is a closer community as a whole. The community will have more respect/empathy for other squads. Instead of mega squad "x" absorbing every noob that they run across they have to become more selective, almost forcing more quality time with the noob.
Absorbing every noob? Let us off the hook,,, are you serious.....?
With all due respect, it is your opinion. But a fact of life is that people are people and inherently social, it took Mother nature a Millennium to create that aspect of our being,,,. Am I to believe that Your idea of limiting the social interaction of players in a social game/forum is to be credible.
I have to ask when did you all of a sudden become the new social network specialist with a PHD?
Try another angle or narrow the brush.
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Absorbing every noob? Let us off the hook,,, are you serious.....?
With all due respect, it is your opinion. But a fact of life is that people are people and inherently social, it took Mother nature a Millennium to create that aspect of our being,,,. Am I to believe that Your idea of limiting the social interaction of players in a social game/forum is to be credible.
I have to ask when did you all of a sudden become the new social network specialist with a PHD?
Try another angle or narrow the brush.
Notice how you omit the last part of my post.
I can see how some could deny this being better for a better game experience. What with all the HO, perk this AC cuz its to uber, the collision model is bogus... ect ect ect threads on the bbs.
Teach em well. :aok
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I like how the mega representitves are jumping Bronk for starting this when in reality, this discussion started in from the wish to expand all squad game mechanic features to "megasquads" in this thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257403.0.html). This thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the first thread.
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You believe getting payed from 71 members is bad for the game? Really HiTech?
so disbanding our squad would cost you 12,771.48 a year. thats nice bite the hand that feeds you.
bronk why are you whining so much did someone oink at you?
Not that it matters to me anymore, but it always struck me as odd that historically based squadrons would be operating Wings.
71 Squadron RAF would have been 12 planes operational with probably 18-20 planes total to keep 12 planes flying. An RAF squadron generally flew 3 flights of 4, with a Wing being 2 or three seperate squadrons.
The Tangmere Wing in the Fall of 1943 for example was 41 and 91 squadrons flying Spit XIIs. 24 kites up, 12 per squadron.
Even if you had a "Wing" it would be 36 planes max, made up of 3 squadrons, such as 71, 121 and 133 aka the Eagle Squadrons.
A USAAF Fighter Group would be the same. 3 Squadrons such as 334, 335 and 336 that made up the 4th FG
Not that the history is important :)
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I like how the mega representitves are jumping Bronk for starting this when in reality, this discussion started in from the wish to expand all squad game mechanic features to "megasquads" in this thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257403.0.html). This thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the first thread.
It's all in a person's perspective. You see it the way above. I perceive it as Bronk starting a thread that he knows will incite folks to respond in an adverse way.
My Opinion
Fred
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It's all in a person's perspective.
Yep. Perspective narrow, and ignoring inconvenient facts.
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Yep. Perspective narrow, and ignoring inconvenient facts.
Those facts are?????????? I guess some of us are not smart enought to read and understand.
Fred
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SO this is about quality friendships...me first for my AH II Facebook page, wheres the twitter link in the O Club on the clip board.
How could I have been so blind........................ ......
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Inconvenient fact #1
The point of squad limits is to keep the groups in the game small and familiar, and consequently the game too. Groups too large behave differently from small close-knit groups of friends. The same way the MA turned to a slum when it hosted too many people.
Inconvenient fact #2
Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other. And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.
HiTech
Yes, certain facts do become very inconvenient for some... :aok
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mmmmmm Spit XII's :aok
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Inconvenient fact #1
Inconvenient fact #2
Yes, certain facts do become very inconvenient for some... :aok
I would hardly call them facts. They are merely opinions of player(s) and the designer of the game. Though I will agree the guy that holds the keys to the house opinions weighs more than others.
As for the inconvenients, I would say it's the opinion of a selected few rather than everyone.
My opinion
Fred
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Most mega squads with 2 wings are still very unlikely to get 15 guys together for squad night. Many collapse under their own weight.
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The squad limit is 32 correct? I don't think I have ever seen a situation where a squad had all 32 players in the squad on at the same time, or the mega squads with all wings combined have ever had more than 32 on at the same time. Isn't this argument really about nothing or at best something that may happen so infrequently that it is not even close to being the norm?
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It says a lot about mega-squads that they can't get anything close to half their players to show on a squad night. I've been in squads with twenty-ish people and it was common for there to be 12 on squad night.
Trying to increase attendance on squad night by adding extra wings is the wrong way to go about it.
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We now have a Muppet Mega Sqwad...we had 12 on last night and we don't have a sqwad night. :devil
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It says a lot about mega-squads that they can't get anything close to half their players to show on a squad night. I've been in squads with twenty-ish people and it was common for there to be 12 on squad night.
Trying to increase attendance on squad night by adding extra wings is the wrong way to go about it.
Ever thought that folks have lives outside of this game.
As for attendance, I know in my squad I have never heard anyone talk about how we had to have any specific numbers on during any specific time.
I never have heard anyone state that a member had to be on-line for a specific amount of time to be a member.
We know people have real lives and we expect them to take care of their business.
Most of the time we are contacted by individuals that want to join.
Fred
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Wow...most of these "Mega Squads" dont even get all their members on for squad night. Um ever think people dont put this game first in their life? Most of the people who play this game have familys and other things to do outside of this game, work. They(or most) dont model their damn lives arround this game. I dont come home monday and say oh hell its squad night...I wont do my homework I would rather fly and just not pass that class. I dont need it for college next year. This thread in my OPINION is getting really OLD. He knew this was going to stir a fight and congrats to him for doing it. Hes got everyone in here going on and on about it. We never pull 32 members on a squad night and we dont go looking for more people to join just so we can. Two wings or five wings we dont get 32 people online any night. And the wings dont all have 32 people in them anyway. So honestly whats the difference if we make a 2 wings squad? Whoever wants to fly on squad night is still going to be together they just have a different letters at the end of the squad name.
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It says a lot about mega-squads that they can't get anything close to half their players to show on a squad night. I've been in squads with twenty-ish people and it was common for there to be 12 on squad night.
Trying to increase attendance on squad night by adding extra wings is the wrong way to go about it.
Well I see it differently than bmwgs: I think this it exactly what HITech is talking about. Smaller squad closer nit group of people who play at about the same time and have a level of dedication to the squad. (not saying "mega squads" don't but it would harder for them). And as I stated in an earlier post HiTech knows people have lives outside this game and has allowed us to have a squad of 32. If you surround yourself, as CO, with 32 like minded dedicated members the squad would be a force to decide the battle. I know that's a stretch to get here but my point is: You don't need alot of members to have fun. I only quoted Anaxogoras because he was quoted...I agree him him....i think.
Also if people don't show up on squad night why are they in a squad? If you can't or won't fly with your squad on squad night why be a member? I guess I don't see the draw to be a member of any squad if you can't give it the attention it wants.
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Actually Stroker I do to a point agree with you. If you have a smaller number that are dedicated and fly together then close bonds can quickly develop. It also happens in a larger squad to a point, though it may take a little longer. I will admit I'm closer to a selected few rather than all the members, but that's not to say all my squad members are not great. I enjoy flying and fighting with each and everyone. Over time our squad has developed recruiting procedures that for the most part ensure everyone will get along. We have different interests within the game, so those with the same interest tend to group together, but when help is needed we all will jump in.
I have been with RT since its creation some one and half years ago. I think today the squad is better than ever. Those that couldn't fit in have moved on with no hard feelings from me. Everyone has to find their place.
I just get tired of listening to the vocal minority who think they know it all when actually they have no idea what they are talking about. From what they say and from what I see on a day to day basis is two different things.
I have learned from reading this BBS over the time I have been playing, that the same few will whine no matter what. I just sit back and chuckle and put a plug in every now and then.
:salute
My OPINION
Fred
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I have a squad-mate who only flies in the main arena on squad nights (so far as I can tell) and then shows up on Friday for FSO. I really don't think he has the time for it either, but he makes the time because it must have a certain amount of importance to him.
I apologize if my comment seemed a little harsh; I have a tendency to overstate things. Every squad has their off nights with low attendance. Yet, you must understand that when those of us in traditional squads hear that a squad with 3-4 wings never has 32 players show up, we're a little confused.
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I have a squad-mate who only flies in the main arena on squad nights (so far as I can tell) and then shows up on Friday for FSO. I really don't think he has the time for it either, but he makes the time because it must have a certain amount of importance to him.
I apologize if my comment seemed a little harsh; I have a tendency to overstate things. Every squad has their off nights with low attendance. Yet, you must understand that when those of us in traditional squads hear that a squad with 3-4 wings never has 32 players show up, we're a little confused.
I understand, I have been confused by folks in this game and BBS for the last year and a half. :salute
This is a FACT not an opinion.
Fred
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I just get tired of listening to the vocal minority who think they know it all when actually they have no idea what they are talking about. From what they say and from what I see on a day to day basis is two different things.
What who does what different from what they say? Maybe I'd have a better idea of what I'm talking about if I had access to that forum. I guess that's too private. Doesn't change the fact that a smaller squad is tighter knit than a 32+ squad, and "having lives outside the game" changes nothing in that respect either. Or the fact that if you can't even get the whole 32 complement online more often than not, then you can't argue for a larger capacity.
Vocal minority? What, do you think there's some amplifying effect that some posts/posters have, or something? Could it be reason? Yeah, everyone has an OPINION, thank you cpt. Obvious. The REAL point is which of those opinions make the most sense. No one is making anyone do anything, here. The only thing going on here is a lot of keystrokes communicating ideas gathered on some virtual bulletin board. What everyone does based on those ideas is their own responsibility. Bronk doesn't have a vulcan mindgrip on anyone at HTC. If reading differences in opinion tires you, quit doing it. No one's making you.
Wow...most of these "Mega Squads" dont even get all their members on for squad night. Um ever think people dont put this game first in their life? Most of the people who play this game have familys and other things to do outside of this game, work. They(or most) dont model their damn lives arround this game. I dont come home monday and say oh hell its squad night...I wont do my homework I would rather fly and just not pass that class. I dont need it for college next year. This thread in my OPINION is getting really OLD. He knew this was going to stir a fight and congrats to him for doing it. Hes got everyone in here going on and on about it. We never pull 32 members on a squad night and we dont go looking for more people to join just so we can. Two wings or five wings we dont get 32 people online any night. And the wings dont all have 32 people in them anyway. So honestly whats the difference if we make a 2 wings squad? Whoever wants to fly on squad night is still going to be together they just have a different letters at the end of the squad name.
Off topic.
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I like how the mega representitves are jumping Bronk for starting this when in reality, this discussion started in from the wish to expand all squad game mechanic features to "megasquads" in this thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257403.0.html). This thread wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the first thread.
That may be true but did you see any of the so called defenders of the large squads jumping in that thread that now are posting on this one.
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Limit the numbers to tuned Vox in the MAs to squad size.
Since I have not seen any reasoning why there should not be more the 32 players (whether they are in the same squad or not) tuned to the same Vox channel, I say no to this idea.
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Maybe it's time that SAPP restarts "Operation Bozo", since one of SAPP's main goals is the destruction of squadrons in the game.
ack-ack
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What who does what different from what they say? Maybe I'd have a better idea of what I'm talking about if I had access to that forum. I guess that's too private.
If I had the authority I would give you access. There is nothing to hide as far as I am concern, but that decision is not up to me.
Doesn't change the fact that a smaller squad is tighter knit than a 32+ squad, and "having lives outside the game" changes nothing in that respect either. Or the fact that if you can't even get the whole 32 complement online more often than not, then you can't argue for a larger capacity.
Who is arguing for larger capacity. I missed that one somewhere. The argument is making the capacity smaller
Vocal minority? What, do you think there's some amplifying effect that some posts/posters have, or something?
Have no idea what you are trying to say.
NOTE: Just figured out what you are trying to say. Yes they do. Their squeak is as loud as on a 20 year old ungreased wheelbarrow wheel.
Could it be reason? Yeah, everyone has an OPINION, thank you cpt. Obvious.
I think I have been perfectly clear about this, it just some can't accept that others have opinions.
The REAL point is which of those opinions make the most sense.
Sense to who? What makes sense to one may not make sense to another.
No one is making anyone do anything, here.
Never said they were
The only thing going on here is a lot of keystrokes communicating ideas gathered on some virtual bulletin board. What everyone does based on those ideas is their own responsibility.
Couldn't agree more. :aok
Bronk doesn't have a vulcan mindgrip on anyone at HTC.
Never said he did.
If reading differences in opinion tires you, quit doing it. No one's making you.Off topic.
I think you missed the point here, but it's not worth trying to explain.
Fred
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Off topic.
NO it really isn't. Im sure people outthere dont hold this game as priority 1 over their real life...
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There's no corelation between squad size and life outside the game. So how you manage your classes relative to the game means nothing.
Bronk might have started this thread for a little mischief but it wasn't totaly off topic. The other thread was pretty much an exact mirror and that's the point, not the purse fights it might start in the more purse-happy of us. He doesn't have strings attached to people's hands and fingers to get em ranting or swinging purses. The real core point is that multi-wing squads don't have the same interpersonal dynamics as smaller squads. That's all. Everything else is consequential to that.
Fred - Where did I point fingers at anyone for arguing for larger squad caps? I know a couple did, but I didn't say who (dont really care who). Limitations on vox doesn't really work because it gets in the way of comms for e.g. FSO. The OP was satire.
Squeaks - That makes no sense. You read out loud others' posts based on how much of a squeaker they are (in your mind anyway)?
Reason/sense: No. There's no relativity to logic. Either something makes sense or it doesnt. If you can't articulate your point or the reader can't wrap his mind around it well enough, that says nothing about the point's validity.
Tired - It does sound like you don't have any endurance for dissent.
It looks like this argument's pretty done. "You guys" (I know there's lots of shades of grey here, but let's boil it down) refuse to acknowledge or can't understand that smaller squads where you don't have 60+ people randomly present 20 or less at a time, as opposed to that same 20 or less online at a time from a pool of 32 (or less) members, is going to equate to less time between any two members of the squad. That P2P time means weaker bonds, which on the macro scale weakens the game's fabric. Which is what a number of you guys argue for (cf "social aspect").
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There's no corelation between squad size and life outside the game. So how you manage your classes relative to the game means nothing.
First I have never said there is any correlation between the squad size and real life. Not sure where you are getting this from
Bronk might have started this thread for a little mischief but it wasn't totaly off topic. The other thread was pretty much an exact mirror and that's the point, not the purse fights it might start in the more purse-happy of us. He doesn't have strings attached to people's hands and fingers to get em ranting or swinging purses.
Never thought I was swinging a purse or ranting, just simply stating my opinion.
The real core point is that multi-wing squads don't have the same interpersonal dynamics as smaller squads. That's all. Everything else is consequential to that.
I do agree, but that not to say that larger squads have no "interpersonal dynamics". I am also willing to bet that there are a number of smaller squads that have less "interpersonal dynamics" than the larger squads. It's all what you make of it.
Fred - Where did I point fingers at anyone for arguing for larger squad caps? I know a couple did, but I didn't say who (dont really care who). Limitations on vox doesn't really work because it gets in the way of comms for e.g. FSO. The OP was satire.
Never stated you pointed any fingers, look at your post above, maybe I missed interpreted it.
Squeaks - That makes no sense. You read out loud others' posts based on how much of a squeaker they are (in your mind anyway)?
FIRST, I NEVER CALLED ANYONE A SQUEAKER. I DO NOT RESORT TO NAME CALLING AS OTHERS DO. Second I stated they squeak like an old wheel. Big Difference
Reason/sense: No. There's no relativity to logic. Either something makes sense or it doesnt. If you can't articulate your point or the reader can't wrap his mind around it well enough, that says nothing about the point's validity.
It would take me pages to respond to this, so I'm not going to even bother.
Tired - It does sound like you don't have any endurance for dissent.
Actually I have plenty of endurance for dissent, its others that don't. Again you don't understand what I was trying to say, and it not worth explaining.
It looks like this argument's pretty done. "You guys" (I know there's lots of shades of grey here, but let's boil it down) refuse to acknowledge or can't understand that smaller squads where you don't have 60+ people randomly present 20 or less at a time, as opposed to that same 20 or less online at a time from a pool of 32 (or less) members, is going to equate to less time between any two members of the squad. That P2P time means weaker bonds, which on the macro scale weakens the game's fabric. Which is what a number of you guys argue for (cf "social aspect").
I have not seen where we are arguing for anything, some of us just don't agree with some others opinions. Are we not entitled to our opinions?
Fred
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LMAO
If you are inferring that I, on occasion commit acts of unsurpassed dweebyness? Well color me guilty. I am also capable of holding my own in a fair fight. Since you appear to want to make this a personal issue... can you say the same?
(http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq138/Cee64E/Bronk1.jpg)
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Fred
First lines are in reply to the post directly above mine. Reply to you starts with "Fred - "
No one in any of these threads (that I've noticed) said there's no interpersonal dynamics in larger squads. That there are a few deviants from proven trends proves those are exceptions as there are to any rule, not that the trend isn't definitely there.
Dissent/"not gonna bother" - so you could argue, but don't, but have to mention you could but won't.
You don't call refuting arguing? That there's disagreements on opinions is a given.. I mean that's the whole paradigm here. Throw a bunch of ideas in the mixer and see what comes out. If you're not entitled to your opinions? :huh What're you talking about? It's not about entitlement or whether everyone has their opinions, it's about sorting out which one makes more sense.
I could fit in some quip about being entitled to coming off as nonsensical squeaking wheels but that's not the point of the argument; viz:It looks like this argument's pretty done. "You guys" (I know there's lots of shades of grey here, but let's boil it down) refuse to acknowledge or can't understand that smaller squads where you don't have 60+ people randomly present 20 or less at a time, as opposed to that same 20 or less online at a time from a pool of 32 (or less) members, is going to equate to less time between any two members of the squad. That P2P time means weaker bonds, which on the macro scale weakens the game's fabric. Which is what a number of you guys argue for (cf "social aspect").
We can bicker about Bronk being mean and cruel for poking fun at the absurd aspect of another thread, or we can get to the bottom of the disagreements.. Or we can go around in circles arguing about how we're not really arguing and questioning who's entitled to an opinion. Or posting single instance screenshots "as proof" as though they weren't cherry picking.
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Maybe it's time that SAPP restarts "Operation Bozo", since one of SAPP's main goals is the destruction of squadrons in the game.
ack-ack
Where do I apply?
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(http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq138/Cee64E/Bronk1.jpg)
<S> Thought that was you. You could at least show the sequential destruction of your buffs. ;) :D
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First, let me say I'm not picking on you or your squad Cee64E, but I would like to use your situation as an example.
You say your not very good in a plane, but are trying, and thats cool, but in a mission your a small part of the whole. With a mega squad you are more comfortable because even tho you think your not very good your squad mates have your back and will cover for you. As a principle, thats cool, but from a training stand point its a crutch. You don't have to get better because someone else will cover it for you. You don't have the same motivation as someone in a smaller squad. They have less people, so to be able to handle the same missions they have to be that much better. This is what I see is the problem with the mega squads. Not that they aren't training, but that maybe most aren't learning, because so many people have there back.
When I was CO of a big squad I would figure out what I needed to take the base. I knew my squad was good for 70% hit rate with bombs. I would load the missions with those numbers and very few extras. If I didn't have enough people to hit two bases at once the surplus went on to the next base to prep it, not to over load the main attack. The point is we force each player to handle his load. They all knew we where counting on them to hit what was expected of them. Sure sometimes we missed, but when you hit dead on, there was a thrill of accomplishment. If it takes ten bricks to do the job, and you only bring 12 you better make as few mistakes as possible. You fight smarter, better, harder. Today, mega squads throw a whole wall of bricks at it. They don't care how many hit and it doesn't take a lot of skill. It doesn't force anyone to get better, it doesn't hold anyone accountable.
Respectfully...
The point is that many people who start out in a mega do get better. I've flown flight sims since my name-sake was the leading edge of technology. I can fly the frappin plane. Learning to fight the plane is what I enjoy about this game. Having a large squad means there are more potential teachers, more friends with tips and tricks. This game has a fairly step learning curve. The more teachers the better.
We have had members that joined with lesser skills, flew with us for a while to improve their skills, then moved on. We have never asked someone to be cannon fodder the whole time I've been in the squad, and I can't imagine anyone being willing to do that anyway unless they're more used to playing WoW. Of all the large squads we fly with, I can't think of a single one that uses such tactics.
Yes, it is a "safe" place for someone to start, there is safety in numbers. That's not neccessarily a bad thing. I like sharing what I've learned with people who are learning, and learning from those that are able to teach me. In the small "clique" squads, they don't always want to teach someone, or have members that need to learn since that would drag the squad average down. I think Mega-squads have their place. The personal dynamics aren't the same as the little squads, they're more like what a fighting force would have been in a time of war. In my opinion, that makes them better.
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<S> Thought that was you. You could at least show the sequential destruction of your buffs. ;) :D
If I knew how to get from the film viewer to a workable youtube vid, I would have. :salute
BTW, if your last question was an invite to the DA, sure, why not. No better way to learn to beat someone than to fly against them. :t
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If I knew how to get from the film viewer to a workable youtube vid, I would have. :salute
BTW, if your last question was an invite to the DA, sure, why not. No better way to learn to beat someone than to fly against them. :t
Fraps
I'm off AH for the night....wifes been on me about it as of late. :noid I'll be on tomorrow and I'll look for you on. :aok
Just a point of interest... did you notice no 200 smack after the shoot downs? I am not evil incarnate, I look forward to DA with you. Possibly after that you could convince Dadsguns too try it also. :t
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First lines are in reply to the post directly above mine. Reply to you starts with "Fred - "
No one in any of these threads (that I've noticed) said there's no interpersonal dynamics in larger squads. That there are a few deviants from proven trends proves those are exceptions as there are to any rule, not that the trend isn't definitely there.
Dissent/"not gonna bother" - so you could argue, but don't, but have to mention you could but won't.
You don't call refuting arguing? That there's disagreements on opinions is a given.. I mean that's the whole paradigm here. Throw a bunch of ideas in the mixer and see what comes out. If you're not entitled to your opinions? :huh What're you talking about? It's not about entitlement or whether everyone has their opinions, it's about sorting out which one makes more sense.
I could fit in some quip about being entitled to coming off as nonsensical squeaking wheels but that's not the point of the argument; viz:We can bicker about Bronk being mean and cruel for poking fun at the absurd aspect of another thread, or we can get to the bottom of the disagreements.. Or we can go around in circles arguing about how we're not really arguing and questioning who's entitled to an opinion. Or posting single instance screenshots "as proof" as though they weren't cherry picking.
I guess you mean that I replied wrong, something with the lines. Not sure what you mean please elaborate. This is not meant to be hostile, I am not a computer geek, and if I did something wrong, I want to make sure I don't do it again. Thanks
Refuting: Haven't seen that word in a while. Had to look it up to make sure I knew what it meant. :) No refuting is not argueing its simply to be proven wrong by an argument. Haven't seen that happen yet. Some say game play is declining, but I don't see where it is. So to me that argument has not been won. I think the game is better than when I first started playing. Maybe that is me, but I'm having a blast. As I have stated in the past, at my age, my friends think I am nuts, and this is the first on line game I have ever played and I am having a great time.
As for sorting through the opinions, who does the sorting? I will agree HiTech has the ultimate say, and since this is his house he will make the decisions, but it still does not mean that others have to share his opinions. They may simply have to abide by them to continue to play the game.
As for Bronk being mean and cruel. At least I don't share that opinion. I actually like his posts. I enjoy going back and forth with him. Me personally, I have nothing against him, but we all know why he started this thread. :D
I agree about getting to the bottom of the disagreement. Some believe that the larger squads are determental to game play, and others disagree. I don't know who is right, but until I see some real proof and not just opinions, I will not be refuted. I hope I used that word right. :)
I guess I need to make something clear. I am a member of the Rolling Thunder and proud to be so. I have no idea why Falcon23 has not booted me, because I rarely fly with the squad. I usually am off doing my own thing, but I like the interaction I have with my squaddies on vox. Even though I am off doing other things I still communicate with them and have a great time. I do at times join the squad operations, but really they are few and far between. I plan to stay a member until Falcon boots me. Maybe I am a unique situation, but maybe you will understand where I am obtaining my opinions from, and I don't mean just from the squad.
:salute
Fred
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The personal dynamics aren't the same as the little squads, they're more like what a fighting force would have been in a time of war.
see here:
71 Squadron RAF would have been 12 planes operational with probably 18-20 planes total to keep 12 planes flying. An RAF squadron generally flew 3 flights of 4, with a Wing being 2 or three seperate squadrons.
The Tangmere Wing in the Fall of 1943 for example was 41 and 91 squadrons flying Spit XIIs. 24 kites up, 12 per squadron.
Even if you had a "Wing" it would be 36 planes max, made up of 3 squadrons, such as 71, 121 and 133 aka the Eagle Squadrons.
A USAAF Fighter Group would be the same. 3 Squadrons such as 334, 335 and 336 that made up the 4th FG
Fred- So you said your piece, that wasnt so hard was it? :) I'll reply in a bit.
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Fraps
I'm off AH for the night....wifes been on me about it as of late. :noid I'll be on tomorrow and I'll look for you on. :aok
Just a point of interest... did you notice no 200 smack after the shoot downs? I am not evil incarnate, I look forward to DA with you. Possibly after that you could convince Dadsguns too try it also. :t
Not until you take me up on my offer, quid pro quo. :salute
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see here:
Fred- So you said your piece, that wasnt so hard was it? :) I'll reply in a bit.
:lol Saying my piece has never been a problem for me. Did I do it right this time? I just got lazy the last time. I have seen others do it that way, but if it not the proper way, then I'll stick by the old fashion way.
Fred
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I think at some point we are going to have to agree to disagree. There is 2 sides of the fence and I don't think either side is going to budge. HTC will have to sort this out. Do what they think is best for the players and the future of the game. I like my little squad of 4...3 of us are 2 years plus playing the game. We took on one new guy and are working with him. Once he is up to speed (he's young but willing to learn) we will get another and do it again. We will never have more than 32 in the squad but at this pace it will be some time before we get to that. :salute to all been fun but no one is going to win the fight. We will know the outcome when HTC either does something or not. I know that several of the "mega" squads have grown over the years and have trained people so I :salute you for that. If your just a grabbing everyone body that shows up in the game I think that is bad. They can develop the relationships over time but the training needs to be there. We like the new person to fly with us for alittle bit to make sure it's a good fit for them and us. But a lot of new people are wanting and willing to jump into any squad that will have them. I believe the game suffers for that. This will be my last post on this thread ...I am RTB ammo, fuel and missing parts! (the missing parts came from a noob that rammed me...lol)
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WARNING WARNING WARNING: This post is off topic.
Facts and opinions are not the same thing.
The real facts of this case are.
In the history of man kind, every time a group has become larger and crossed a critical mass point, the social dynamics of that group changed.
This is a fact. It is NOT an opinion. It is a pet peeve of mine when people confuse the 2 items,and want to add to an argument the view point all opinions are equal.
Now an opinion or better stated a conclusion from the above fact would be. When ever a group becomes larger and crosses a critical mass point, the group dynamics WILL change. This is an opinion, one could state that they do not agree with this opinion. But most people would agree that to think something will be different when it never has in the past, is not considered sound logic.
Now a very technical statement would be the odds that when a group becomes larger it as some point changes its social dynamics is extremely high is a conclusion based on normally accepted mathematical principles.
My next OPINION "Mega bad for AH" is not a fact. And it is an opinion. This is not a simple conclusion and could be discussed and debated.
HiTech
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Those facts are?????????? I guess some of us are not smart enought to read and understand.
Fred
Hi bmwgs, what I meant was that, the written record and time stamps back up what I said. Which is that this thread did not pop up out of the blue because Bronk wanted to stir the pot. It was effectively a counter-wish brought on by the earlier discussion.
I hope I made my opinion clear on this subject. This was my first post in the other thread.
Yea, because there's a unit structure
A Flight is 4-6 aircraft
A Squadron is 3-4 Flights
A Group is 2-10 Squadrons
A Wing is 2+ Groups
An Air Force (eg. 8th Air Force) is 2+ wings
HTC says a squadron is 32 players (as opposed to USAAF 12-24 planes). More that is a higher unit than "a squadron", period.
Just on established convention and terminology, "our squad has 3 wings" is flawed. That is not opinion. Hypothetically if I wanted to fill all of my squads slots, and then continue to add people to the organization, I'd add our units namesake's squadron designation on to the name of each squad. The 479th was a fighter group made up of the 434th through 436st fighter squadron. But that is me, and I am a bit of a history buff. At one time, that was the vast majority of people you would find in this type of game. To sum it up, I find the concept of "our 80 person squadron" as silly as, "my 80 ounce quart jug".
I have never called for the burning at the stake of all mega-squads. But some have had periods of relatively selfish behavior in the grand scheme of gameplay, and I am not shy about shining a verbal light on it
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WARNING WARNING WARNING: This post is off topic.
Facts and opinions are not the same thing.
The real facts of this case are.
In the history of man kind, every time a group has become larger and crossed a critical mass point, the social dynamics of that group changed.
This is a fact. It is NOT an opinion. It is a pet peeve of mine when people confuse the 2 items,and want to add to an argument the view point all opinions are equal.
Now an opinion or better stated a conclusion from the above fact would be. When ever a group becomes larger and crosses a critical mass point, the group dynamics WILL change. This is an opinion, one could state that they do not agree with this opinion. But most people would agree that to think something will be different when it never has in the past, is not considered sound logic.
Now a very technical statement would be the odds that when a group becomes larger it as some point changes its social dynamics is extremely high is a conclusion based on normally accepted mathematical principles.
My next OPINION "Mega bad for AH" is not a fact. And it is an opinion. This is not a simple conclusion and could be discussed and debated.
HiTech
Actually I agree with everthing you just said.
I did not go back and reread my posts to see if I was unclear about the issue, but the topic of this thread was to limit vox. I do not believe that I argued that the social dynamics in a larger squad was not different than a smaller squad, my position was I have seen no proof (facts) that support that larger squads are bad for game play, thus vox needs to be limited to prevent this.
Thanks,
Fred
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It can't work anyway, squads arent the only elements to use vox. The real point if you read between the OP lines OTOH was about mega squads' negative influence on the game, I assumed as an invitation to discuss solutions to them.
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WARNING WARNING WARNING: This post is off topic.
Facts and opinions are not the same thing.
The real facts of this case are.
In the history of man kind, every time a group has become larger and crossed a critical mass point, the social dynamics of that group changed.
This is a fact. It is NOT an opinion. It is a pet peeve of mine when people confuse the 2 items,and want to add to an argument the view point all opinions are equal.
Now an opinion or better stated a conclusion from the above fact would be. When ever a group becomes larger and crosses a critical mass point, the group dynamics WILL change. This is an opinion, one could state that they do not agree with this opinion. But most people would agree that to think something will be different when it never has in the past, is not considered sound logic.
Now a very technical statement would be the odds that when a group becomes larger it as some point changes its social dynamics is extremely high is a conclusion based on normally accepted mathematical principles.
My next OPINION "Mega bad for AH" is not a fact. And it is an opinion. This is not a simple conclusion and could be discussed and debated.
HiTech
It may be Fact that social dynamics change with the group’s size but it is Opinion on whether that change is good or bad for the game. Obviously the ones now on top are going to say the change is good and the ones that are now on the bottom are going to say the change is bad.
Now for you, HiTech, the metric you should be keeping an eye on is how many Two Week Trials gets converted to Subscriptions and how long those Subscriptions last. When you say that the mega squads are bad for AH, I can only assume you see the numbers trending in a bad way and it is your opinion that the mega squads are the cause for those negative trends.
Well, let me tell you about the BoP mega squad. We have had a couple of resent new hires that other Bops have talked into trying the game. From inside the squad the new guys can ask questions without getting the standard Alt-F4 answer from others. They get on-the-job training where they feel like they are making a contribution regardless of their skill level, and there is someone there to help them when they get in over their heads. I imagine these things are true for all squads no mater their size. But with a mega squad, it is more likely that someone from the squad will be on when you join who can give you a hand and tell you where the fight is so you can get right into the action. Now I’m not a touch-feely kind of guy and treat my squadies like co-works so I know who they are but don’t know their favorite colors, but I do get a certain level of “comfort” knowing they are around even if we are not flying together. It is because of the squad that I have kept my subscription going for as long as it has. The squad has also been a strong motivator for my contribution of skins and maps. So I would say the BoP mega squad, wing, or group has been good for AH.
But when I see the AH Staff insulting my skills and calling my squad’s CO a “dillweed,” it makes me stop and think why I should continue to send in my $14.95 a month to support a game where the founder appears to condone the open contempt for the community by his staff. Now that is not fact or my opinion; that’s my perception. And perception is reality. Maybe me being a mercenary and only having co-works in a mega squad does not help as much in fighting against that perceived contempt as it would if I were in a smaller squad with friends; but I would say, as an opinion, that the lack of mutual respect displayed, here on the boards and in the game, by a handful of individuals has a greater impact on any negative trends you may see then does the mega squads.
MachNix
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But when I see the AH Staff insulting my skills and calling my squad’s CO a “dillweed,” it makes me stop and think why I should continue to send in my $14.95 a month to support a game where the founder appears to condone the open contempt for the community by his staff. Now that is not fact or my opinion; that’s my perception. And perception is reality. Maybe me being a mercenary and only having co-works in a mega squad does not help as much in fighting against that perceived contempt as it would if I were in a smaller squad with friends; but I would say, as an opinion, that the lack of mutual respect displayed, here on the boards and in the game, by a handful of individuals has a greater impact on any negative trends you may see then does the mega squads.
MachNix
Neither you, your CO, or your squad are "the community" as a whole.
One could even argue that your mega squad is actually a "bubble community" apart from the community at large. After all there is an active thread called "Your favorite BBS contributor" where one of the most named "favorite contributors" is someone your CO never even heard of before the other thread. I am saying that only to illustrate the point, as opposed to actually making that argument.
And then there is this whole vocal minority strawman. Granted, birds of a feather and all that, but just because you choose to associate with like minded individuals, doesn't mean your social circle represents the community as a whole.
Following your logic, on how some form of affiliation allows no individuality, you may want to go back an review the other thread, and evaluate whether your CO was speaking for you with the habitual name calling of individuals, the trainers as a whole, and calling ACM gamey in an Air Combat Sim. While you're at it, I'd also suggest pondering the word "mutual" in that context.
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Neither you, your CO, or your squad are "the community" as a whole.
One could even argue that your mega squad is actually a "bubble community" apart from the community at large. After all there is an active thread called "Your favorite BBS contributor" where one of the most named "favorite contributors" is someone your CO never even heard of before the other thread. I am saying that only to illustrate the point, as opposed to actually making that argument.
And then there is this whole vocal minority strawman. Granted, birds of a feather and all that, but just because you choose to associate with like minded individuals, doesn't mean your social circle represents the community as a whole.
Following your logic, on how some form of affiliation allows no individuality, you may want to go back an review the other thread, and evaluate whether your CO was speaking for you with the habitual name calling of individuals, the trainers as a whole, and calling ACM gamey in an Air Combat Sim. While you're at it, I'd also suggest pondering the word "mutual" in that context.
That I must say is one of the most intelligent statements I have seen concerning all the threads concerning these issues. :aok
Fred
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Then there's those of us who really don't give a damn what you think. Do I care that you don't like how many people I (or anyone) fly with at any given time? Hardly. Actually, not at all. Maybe some of you need to get a grip and play the video game however it makes you happy, just as we do. Trainers, furballers, vets, blah blah blah. Until you pay my $14.95 a month, your opinion of my or my squads gameplay is very much null & void.
Thank you Mach for your post. Your post spells out how many of us feel about the game and our squads. Tis' a pity some of us like myself can't be so eloquent in addressing the (BS) issue and express our opinion in a level and peaceful tone. My style I guess is more like this: Some of you grown men need to learn how to mind your own damn business and don't worry what other people, paying the same amount you are, are doing, as long as they are having fun. We pay to play to have a great time with our friends, not to make any of you happy. Period.
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Then there's those of us who really don't give a damn what you think. Do I care that you don't like how many people I (or anyone) fly with at any given time? Hardly. Actually, not at all. Maybe some of you need to get a grip and play the video game however it makes you happy, just as we do. Trainers, furballers, vets, blah blah blah. Until you pay my $14.95 a month, your opinion of my or my squads gameplay is very much null & void.
Thank you Mach for your post. Your post spells out how many of us feel about the game and our squads.
That attitude is EXACTLY the reason why the dreaded "ENY" country balancer was implemented in the game. Country "X" was more than happy to play the game the way they wanted to play out numbering both other countries combined. With absolutely no regard for how it denied players in the other country playing "however it makes [them] happy". "Its my 15 bucks" only holds up until that persons behavior starts to affect overall gameplay.
So now I'm confused with these two conflicting post. Which is it? You're part of the community, or "everyone who's not with me be damned"?
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Patiently waiting the heavy handed "fix". :aok
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Patiently waiting the heavy handed "fix". :aok
Bronk, You finally speak. :D
Fred
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In our democratic society, the rule of law has always been that one may exercise their individual rights as they wish.
Right up until such exercise interferes with the individual rights of others; at which point they must yield.
I'm sure rational minds recognize this concept.
My regards,
Widewing
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In our democratic society, the rule of law has always been that one may exercise their individual rights as they wish.
Please don't call it that...some of the greatest minds amongst the founders in this country worked very hard to protect individual rights from that multi-headed, fickle, impossibly witless tyrant called Democratos Majoritarius :)...they failed as it turns out, but at least they tried. :(
Right up until such exercise interferes with the individual rights of others; at which point they must yield.
I'm sure rational minds recognize this concept.
The only one who we can speak of as having "rights" as regards AHII is the guy who owns this game, its servers, etc.
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Neither you, your CO, or your squad are "the community" as a whole.
One could even argue that your mega squad is actually a "bubble community" apart from the community at large. After all there is an active thread called "Your favorite BBS contributor" where one of the most named "favorite contributors" is someone your CO never even heard of before the other thread. I am saying that only to illustrate the point, as opposed to actually making that argument.
So what you are saying, Murdr, is HiTech allows his staff to belittle “bubble communities” and individuals. I can somewhat believe that.
You also seem to be indicating that there is something wrong with my CO because he did not know a certain individual even though that individual, who happens to be on the AH Staff and a member of a secret “bubble community,” had won some competition about being the best BBS contributor. I’m sure it was just an oversight on your part for not mentioning his typing skills.
Well, I don’t want to make excuses for my CO, but I would say he didn’t know the individual because the CO spends his time playing the game instead of reading the BBS. Speaking for my self, if it wasn’t for these boards, I wouldn’t even know who you where. I don’t see you making any impact in the arenas – maybe our playtimes don’t over lap. So it is hard for me to value someone’s, who appears not to be having an impact on the game, criticism of someone else who is having an impact.
It is too bad you did not have a contest on who your favorite contributor to game was. I personally would vote for ghi. He is a lot of fun for the Bish Bubble Community when he is out to ruin the fun of the Rook or Knight Bubble Community. I hope the Rooks and Knights have their own ghi-type characters.
For those enjoying the game – :salute
MachNix
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So what you are saying, Murdr, is HiTech allows his staff to belittle “bubble communities” and individuals. I can somewhat believe that.
You're saying that, not I. You claimed a "contempt for the community" which is utter BS. The rest as I said was to illustrate a point on your definition of "the community".
I don’t see you making any impact in the arenas – maybe our playtimes don’t over lap.
Well, let's take a look. Career stats excluding "gun ship or field"...
MachNix
6202 kills
3004 deaths
2.06 gross k/d
Nice :salute
Murdr
26276 kills
8183 deaths
3.21 gross k/d
So it is hard for me to value someone’s, who appears not to be having an impact on the game, criticism of someone else who is having an impact.
You changed one word here, which completely changes the subject matter from my point of view (arena to game). Those are two distinctly different things. There is much more to AH than the never ending war in the most populated LW arena in AH. Every couple months there is a different squad or conglomerate of squads crowing their prowess and innovation in winning the endless MA war. It can still be entertaining to watch after 14 years, but it's still nothing more than a rerun of the same old story. The guys that put countless hours in, making maps, organizing and running events, providing help and training, researching historical and technical documentation and sharing it with HTC. Those are people who have a lasting impact on "the game". Often at the expense of their own available time for actually playing the game. Such contributions are as far as you can get from "contempt" for the community.
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Can I have some of the Kool-Aid that is apparently being distributed from TX?
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The only one who we can speak of as having "rights" as regards AHII is the guy who owns this game, its servers, etc.
Correct. We as a player have a "right" to a 32 man squad. We now have groups who distort it by having "wings". HT has a way of policing us if we do not do it ourselves. We have already seen it in eny and the arena split and the new capture system.
New example.
Do not fool yourself into believing nothing can be done about it. There are many Ideas I know of that would solve many issues,including the large squad issue. A simple one would be to assign people to an arena. The question I ask is simply where the break even is on being heavy handed.
HiTech
:noid
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Whats the difference if we are all in a squad or not. It's still gonna be a bunch of us flying around together. As long as players can communicate with each other folks will find their friends and join up. Either randomly assign people to different countries or some how limit the number of players in close proximity to one another, otherwise I think that guys will seek out their buddies. We could all eave the BoPs and still fly around together. The only difference would be the absence of the squad name on the end of our names.
What exactly is the social change that occurs when a large group flys together? Someone will always assume the leadership role whether they are in a squad leadership position or not. It's human nature.
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I think a lot of this comes from attitudes of young vs old(ER). Teens HAVE to belong to a frikking group, just like being in the 'right' crowd in high school. I like to have my buddies about (prolly 6-7 total, with whom I hang out with on a constant basis, several other friends I may wing with) But my world doesnt come to an end if they aren't there. I'm perfectly happy to fly a few bases away and see how much trouble I can get into and still make it home...This game is turning into West Side Story, with 1 big mob on ONE side of the street, another big mob on the OTHER side of the street (sans the crappy music) So many folks feel a strong desire to belong to one of the afore-mentioned mobs, and sans 'zone-limiting', etc, I dont see how that will be rectified. It's a buzz-kill of major proportions for those who don't ascribe to the borg-cube concept
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Correct. We as a player have a "right" to a 32 man squad. We now have groups who distort it by having "wings". HT has a way of policing us if we do not do it ourselves. We have already seen it in eny and the arena split and the new capture system.
New example.
:noid
Actually those wings you speak of are actual squads. They each have a CO and a XO. I guess another way of looking at it is that the squads like to work together.
I know what your saying Bronk. Things can be twisted in many different ways depending on which side the of aisle your are on.
The point is as I have said before, I have seen no actual proof or (facts) that have shown that larger (or smaller) squads are a bad influence on the game, which would require drastic changes in the policies concerning vox and squad size (larger or smaller). In the end, you are right we will have to abide by HiTech decisions. :salute
Fred
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Actually those wings you speak of are actual squads. They each have a CO and a XO. I guess another way of looking at it is that the squads like to work together.
I know what your saying Bronk. Things can be twisted in many different ways depending on which side the of aisle your are on.
The point is as I have said before, I have seen no actual proof or (facts) that have shown that larger (or smaller) squads are a bad influence on the game, which would require drastic changes in the policies concerning vox and squad size (larger or smaller). In the end, you are right we will have to abide by HiTech decisions. :salute
Fred
Well...other than the guy who WROTE the game :huh
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Well...other than the guy who WROTE the game :huh
That's just an opinion.... albeit the only one that matters. ;)
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I have seen no actual proof or (facts) that have shown that larger (or smaller) squads are a bad influence on the game, which would require drastic changes in the policies concerning vox and squad size (larger or smaller). In the end, you are right we will have to abide by HiTech decisions. :salute
Well, I have. So has HT.
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Well, I have. So has HT.
Proof? I can be Refuted. Jeez, I like that word.
All I see is people typing their opinions, but have yet to see any actual proof. Of course I agree with Bronk, HiTech's opinion or not, it's his call.
Did I say I agreed with Bronk? :O
Fred
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THIS HORSE IS
DEAD
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Well, I have. So has HT.
Respectfully,,, How? What? has this affected.
Using such a large broad stroke in this topic leaves many defending what we see to be nothing wrong, some are doing what they can to "do the right thing".
There have been many wrong assumptions from the "other" side of the table that I defend against because the lack of knowledge or ability to be more specific about the issue at hand.
This has just morphed into such a large snowball that everyone feels as though they are being rolled up in it and that simply isn't the case, each issue is unique in itself, and you have to address it that way.
This is going over like a fart in church, silent but deadly. :lol
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Proof? I can be Refuted. Jeez, I like that word.
All I see is people typing their opinions, but have yet to see any actual proof. Of course I agree with Bronk, HiTech's opinion or not, it's his call.
Did I say I agreed with Bronk? :O
Fred
Proof? It comes with almost 20 years of doing this and HT has been doing it as long as I have. He also has the added experience of not only being a player in these "communities", but also a creator of a couple of them.
Now, if you really want to discuss the negative impact of huge squads/guilds/teams/whatever you want to call them on this type of game, we can do it here and bore the crap outta people or we can go private. I have no problem with either.
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Proof? It comes with almost 20 years of doing this and HT has been doing it as long as I have. He also has the added experience of not only being a player in these "communities", but also a creator of a couple of them.
Now, if you really want to discuss the negative impact of huge squads/guilds/teams/whatever you want to call them on this type of game, we can do it here and bore the crap outta people or we can go private. I have no problem with either.
I know a guy that has been a car mechanic for 30 years, and he still isn't worth a hoot at fixing cars. I wouldn't trust him to change my wiper blades. Just because you have been doing this for 20 years does not in itself provide any factual hard evidence (proof) that larger squads are bad for game play. It just means that you are a bit (maybe a lot) more experience, but not all knowing.
My question has been side tracked and I have no problem with taking it private. All I am asking is to see some hard evidence showing that larger squads are bad for game play. I'm not looking for a comparison to AW, we all know this game is different that that one. Might be because its 2009 and there are (I'm guessing) several thousand players opposed to several hundred.
I am an open minded person and if some actual evidence, statical or otherwise, is presented to me as I said I can be refuted. I love that word. In real life I do not just take somebody's word that it is right without anything to support their position. If you do then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that is for sale.
I would even post on the BBS that I was wrong. It has never been my stance that it might not be true, just I have seen no evidence of it in my measly 1 1/2 years in the game.
Stated with respect to a standing member.
Fred
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WOW,what a little fervor one can stir...
As far as rolling Thunder goes,I as the CO enjoy what it has become..it has become a training ground for new people whom we desire to be in the squad,and it has become A great forum for me to interact with other people who enjoy playing this game as much as I do.It has grown in a much bigger way than even I imagined,and matured as well..
We enjoy each others company and I do not believe that our size has become detrimental to our being close.DISCLAIMER:this does not represent how YOUR squad may interact.
I am a mission planner first and foremost,whether NOE,at ALT,GV,or whatever I feel is needed at the time to accomplish an intended goal,which most of the time is to capture A base,and I have the greatest people in RT..We laugh,we have a good time,we battle,we analyze situations,we do it all in FUN..Not to say that their are other squads that dont do this,but I can only speak for mine..
The background on RT when I started it was to make a squad where everyone would be taught to run missions,to plan missions,to make them work,whether NOE,at ALT,GV,etc..etc..
How a base gets captured does not matter to me as much that it GETS captured,and I think this is where the perception that MEG-SQUADS somehow MAKE this happen more than ones other country mates..
Bish have big numbers usually.WHY.I think it is because they have a goal in mind,to capture bases.I do not say all have this in mind,but I think it runs deeper in the bish psyche than in rooks or nits..When A mission is posted,it is almost guaranteed big participation,although not always.And why?? because somehow bish are not as good as rooks or nits? Hardly.It is because it is what we do..My point; It has nothing to do with MEGA-SQUADS!!!
In RT,some people are good at dive-bombing,some are good ACM,some are not,we are ALL always learning new things.Most of us train every tuesday,although it is not mandatory.
We want to be well-rounded in what we do,and that takes time.I have been playing 2.5 years give or take a few months and I am ONLY now getting good at ACM..I can actually up a plane and not think I am going to be back in the tower in 3 minutes..
We used to take bases because taking a base was to me,what it was all about,and saying"yay we got it" quick lets move on to another",and the base gets taken back in less than 10 minutes.Now it has been ingrained in me that PORKING bases around the one captured,HAS to take place in order to keep it..And this works very well.It has taken a few in my squad to get that in to my head,so we have grown into a well-rounded squad who does what is needed to get the job done..
I see what people post on the bb's about people porking,or hitting citys/radar sites/aa factories,and people,it seems to me,for the most part call it score padding.HEH!..whatever it is it helps whichever country you are on..it keeps things down longer.it has an EFFECT..But people rant and rave about it..That it is gamey?? well,it is in the game to be able to do that ,so it needs to be done..
This game is what you make it..You can either make it an ACM game,a GV game,A base taking game,A bomber game,My word it is all there.And on a great platform from which to accomplish the goals of whatever you desire..
Some people cannot get along in groups,I guess thats why people come and go out of RT,but it is a fact of life,and I hold no ill-will torwards them.And some people DO get along in groups,these people usually stay..But we go through people as probably any squad does,we do not have some MAGICAL force which causes people to stay in our squad,but we ARE adults,and we have the minimum capacity to be able to assimilate our wishes into goals in the game,and some may not be into that type of regimentled type of thinking.
You want to know what it is like in RT,hardly a MEGA-squad,PM me with a wish to fly with us for a day or a week,see what we are all about..I think you will be impressed with our ability to get the job done,and will definetly be impressed with the fact that ALL the BISHOPS work together well,and mostly for the same goal,as you do on your countrys..TO take bases,To defend bases,to dog-fight,to gv,to CV...
Thanks for listening,
Falcon23 :salute
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Might be because its 2009 and there are (I'm guessing) several thousand players opposed to several hundred.
Just so you know, I've never seen AHs peak time population match that of AW on AOLs peak time population (1100-1200 every night). I believe Moggy stated that on AOL, AWs player database exceeded 150,000 CPIDs.
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Just so you know, I've never seen AHs peak time population match that of AW on AOLs peak time population (1100-1200 every night). I believe Moggy stated that on AOL, AWs player database exceeded 150,000 CPIDs.
That I did not know. I stand corrected.
Thanks
Fred
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Just so you know, I've never seen AHs peak time population match that of AW on AOLs peak time population (1100-1200 every night). I believe Moggy stated that on AOL, AWs player database exceeded 150,000 CPIDs.
AW was also EA's 2nd largest MMO in terms of active subscriptions at the time the plug was pulled. Only UO had more active subscribers at the time.
ack-ack
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SkyRock<----owns Megasqwads! :aok
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SkyRock<----owns Megasqwads! :aok
And with that brilliant piece of info... I declare the thread complete. ;)
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And with that brilliant piece of info... I declare the thread complete. ;)
I'm not giving you the last say. Now it's complete. :D
Fred
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THIS HORSE IS
DEAD
OBviously a bachelor
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How a base gets captured does not matter to me as much that it GETS captured,and I think this is where the perception that MEG-SQUADS somehow MAKE this happen more than ones other country mates..
This just caught my eye. Not jumping on you personally falc just the mentality of the statement.
A lot of people think "Because I can do a thing and get away with it, it's fine.". I'm not just talking in game here either. What I believe has happened that HTC's game has become so big... too much of this real world mentality has bled over.
Since you don't care how a base is captured. You wouldn't have any problem with X number of ac be used as guided missiles taking out all hangers then use heavy cannon ac to drop town.
I see a problem with this at any cost mentality.... game play suffers. Remember you said it How a base gets captured does not matter to me as much that it GETS captured
Sad state of affairs we have here.
Well... IMO anyway.
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You must have been reading a different reply there cowboy. But it was a cute try. Do you like being cute? Can I put a pink bow in your hair for you? :D
[total hijack] wow LLogann, you ARE older than I thought... :lol :rofl :rock (and I mean in a good way haha I've never heard "daddy-o" EVER) [/total hijack]
oh, and for my actual opinion of this, after not reading 18 pages?
If I want to be on vox with lets say LLogann and a few RTs, my squad, some people from the Jokers, a few BoPs, and some other people randomly from other Bish squads and there's more than the X amount of people allowed (as from what everyone seems to be implying in the thread), do I just not fly with ol' friends?
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No you may not. You must develop an unsocial attitude and degrade other players' "skills". Furthermore, your enjoyment of the game must be toned down, as it is offensive to others. No more base taking, bombing, GVs or other such non-leet activities either. Furball, furball, furball. That is the only AH activity you are allowed. Don't let us catch you having a good time, or it's off to the TA for you for re-education. Only then will you be considered one of the *snicker* cool guys.
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No you may not. You must develop an unsocial attitude and degrade other players' "skills". Furthermore, your enjoyment of the game must be toned down, as it is offensive to others. No more base taking, bombing, GVs or other such non-leet activities either. Furball, furball, furball. That is the only AH activity you are allowed. Don't let us catch you having a good time, or it's off to the TA for you for re-education. Only then will you be considered one of the *snicker* cool guys.
Someone sounds like they woke up on the sarcastic side of the bed today!
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This just caught my eye. Not jumping on you personally falc just the mentality of the statement.
A lot of people think "Because I can do a thing and get away with it, it's fine.". I'm not just talking in game here either. What I believe has happened that HTC's game has become so big... too much of this real world mentality has bled over.
Since you don't care how a base is captured. You wouldn't have any problem with X number of ac be used as guided missiles taking out all hangers then use heavy cannon ac to drop town.
I see a problem with this at any cost mentality.... game play suffers. Remember you said it
Sad state of affairs we have here.
Well... IMO anyway.
I will clarify what I meant there..
Whether it be NOE or AT ALTITUDE,GV's or off of a CV,I dont care how it is captured..There are only so many ways a base can get captured.The bottom line is getting 10 troops in the map-room.And if you think I am the only one who thinks like this,or that ONLY bish think like this,you are sorely mistaken..
How does capturing bases degrade game-play??We spent many hours trying to capture a base on pizza map last night.A great fight for all.How does that degrade game-play??Unless you want it to take many hours to capture a base..We ran some NOE's and captured bases quickly..
I want to be efficent with the tools I have at hand in the game..Just as a fighter pilot will learn to fly their plane of choice"EFFICENTLY" enough to get their kills..There is no difference that I can see..
In RL could a plane turn inside of a MILE and be on an enemy's 6????Many planes in this game are flown by those who have learned to efficently fly their planes using the tools they have.Yet I dont see people bringing that up??
And I still dont see where "MEGA-SQUADS" are causing any UN-DUE stress on anyone else,..
HT said "MEGA-SQUADS" are not good for INTER-PERSONAL relationships within the squad..I can assure you that RT are quite comfortable with each other,and call each other friends..otherwise there would be NO cooperatin in the ranks,and the squad would no longer exist..
And just for the record.I do NOT consider RT to be a "MEGA-SQUAD"..we are merely efficent..Is that to be banned? I hope not,it has taken a long time to get as good as we are.We dont get every base,but then again what squad does..
Falcon23 :salute
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HT said "MEGA-SQUADS" are not good for INTER-PERSONAL relationships within the squad..
I'm not sure about this one. Could you cite your source please? I have discussed this with him before and I remember him saying that they aren't good for relationships OUTSIDE the squad. That is because they tend to focus inward to the exclusion of those not in the squad. Therein, they are not really good for the over all health of the community.
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Just to make my stance very clear, I never said that "MEGA" squads increase things like bad game play in the Arenas. This may or may not be the case. What I did say that as groups get larger the social dynamics change in a way that make squads much less personal. Simply put you can not know as much about many people, as you do about a few people. Hence real friendship diminishes in larger groups. It is much easier to to get to know just a few people, and have more fun with them. This is the only reason I have set squad limits.
HiTech
Here ya go..
Falcon23 :salute
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Thought so. I believe you misunderstood what he was saying. He was talking about how groups (squads) interact with those around them. Their interaction with themselves is not in question. Large squads become an entity unto themselves. Therein, they become exclusive of the rest of the community. I will give him a call in the AM and see if he will clarify the statement for us.....since I doubt you are going to believe me. :)
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Thought so. I believe you misunderstood what he was saying. He was talking about how groups (squads) interact with those around them. Their interaction with themselves is not in question. Large squads become an entity unto themselves. Therein, they become exclusive of the rest of the community. I will give him a call in the AM and see if he will clarify the statement for us.....since I doubt you are going to believe me. :)
are you going to go through that much trouble to prove Falcon23 wrong? :huh
:lol
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I'm curious to hear what he has to say.. Because his short string of posts on the subject are pretty clear to me. Groups larger than a certain size (somewhere around 32 in AH's specific case) have different dynamics than those below that size, and it's HT's opinion that the game is better off with the former's dynamics.
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are you going to go through that much trouble to prove Falcon23 wrong? :huh
:lol
Geez, I'm going through no trouble. The number is on the speed dial. Probably less trouble for me to call than it was for you to make a fool of yourself with this post. :D
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Geez, I'm going through no trouble. The number is on the speed dial. Probably less trouble for me to call than it was for you to make a fool of yourself with this post. :D
Make a fool out of myself? You're going out of your way to prove someone wrong in cartoon planes :lol
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(http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/1783/103659g001fm4.jpg)
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I'm curious to hear what he has to say.. Because his short string of posts on the subject are pretty clear to me. Groups larger than a certain size (somewhere around 32 in AH's specific case) have different dynamics than those below that size, and it's HT's opinion that the game is better off with the former's dynamics.
I'll throw a bone out on this one. Why 32? Is this some number where it was determined to be a breaking point. I know HiTech picked the number, but again he's the one with the keys to the car.
Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start some big issue around the number 32, I am just curious why (or around) 32.
Fred
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Magic number that's close enough the same way ENY are.
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I am just curious why (or around) 32.
Fred
because it is 42 minus 10. setting it at 42 just wouldn't be cool.
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because it is 42 minus 10. setting it at 42 just wouldn't be cool.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Fred
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I'll throw a bone out on this one. Why 32? Is this some number where it was determined to be a breaking point. I know HiTech picked the number, but again he's the one with the keys to the car.
Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start some big issue around the number 32, I am just curious why (or around) 32.
Fred
I want to say the original number was 24 for a squadron. But, I'm not sure if it was here, AW or WB where it was changed.
Make a fool out of myself? You're going out of your way to prove someone wrong in cartoon planes :lol
Well gosh! Thanks for worrying about the use of my time. I guess it takes you a little longer to press 2 buttons on a cell phone than it does me. You might wanna spend some time in then Cell Fone TA to work on that. :)
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I'll throw a bone out on this one. Why 32? Is this some number where it was determined to be a breaking point. I know HiTech picked the number, but again he's the one with the keys to the car.
Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start some big issue around the number 32, I am just curious why (or around) 32.
Fred
Why do you assume I picked the number? I agreed to the number but if I were to choose I would choose a smaller number around 20.
HiTech
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Why do you assume I picked the number? I agreed to the number but if I were to choose I would choose a smaller number around 20.
HiTech
Sounds about right. Our squad has about 7-10 show up for squad night along with a few friends that like to fly with us (Killuminati). About 10 or so can't make it on any given Wed night. We only really need about 20 slots, I doubt we've ever come close to 20 active players.
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It's actually you, who cannot read what he, not very vaguely, stated. But I do appreciate you guys who have to argue regardless. :salute
Thought so. I believe you misunderstood what he was saying. He was talking about how groups (squads) interact with those around them. Their interaction with themselves is not in question. Large squads become an entity unto themselves. Therein, they become exclusive of the rest of the community. I will give him a call in the AM and see if he will clarify the statement for us.....since I doubt you are going to believe me. :)
HiTech is pretty eloquent. If he wanted to say what you THINK he said, he would have just said that.
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Why do you assume I picked the number? I agreed to the number but if I were to choose I would choose a smaller number around 20.
HiTech
Because you own the company. I think it was a fair assumption, for if you didn't agree in some way, it wouldn't be. :salute
Fred
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Our squad is small (5 members) and we plan to keep it around 12. Like others have stated, the larger a squad gets, the less the squaddies actually KNOW each other. relationships are much closer in smaller squads
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Well, let's take a look. Career stats excluding "gun ship or field"...
MachNix
6202 kills
3004 deaths
2.06 gross k/d
Nice :salute
Murdr
26276 kills
8183 deaths
3.21 gross k/d
You changed one word here, which completely changes the subject matter from my point of view (arena to game). Those are two distinctly different things. There is much more to AH than the never ending war in the most populated LW arena in AH. Every couple months there is a different squad or conglomerate of squads crowing their prowess and innovation in winning the endless MA war. It can still be entertaining to watch after 14 years, but it's still nothing more than a rerun of the same old story. The guys that put countless hours in, making maps, organizing and running events, providing help and training, researching historical and technical documentation and sharing it with HTC. Those are people who have a lasting impact on "the game". Often at the expense of their own available time for actually playing the game. Such contributions are as far as you can get from "contempt" for the community.
Hay Murdr, thanks for pulling up the career stats but they are for the game and not for a single arena. So I don’t think you can use kill to death ratio for the game to determine someone’s impact on an arena. I was under the impression the ratio could only be used to justify bullying, abusing, insulting, or marginalizing another player.
For those who are new or have not been paying attention, there is a group of players, who I would call bullies, that think they have the right to abuse other players that are ranked lower in their pecking order. This pecking order is based on the kill to death ratio. Murdr was operating under this criterion when he used our respective stats to justify his marginalization of my comments. I believe the Bully Bylaws allow me, under the “I Only Care about the Fight, Not the Outcome” clause, to challenge him to the DA so our ACM skills can be used to determine our bully ranks. After our fights, we would post our films here on the Bully Boards for review. A panel of respected bullies would then view the films to determine the results. I may not win the match; but if I do a respectable job, I could earn the right to bully other players above my current kill to death ratio. You may remember seeing such films posted where one player claims to have “owned” another. I could also go through Murdr’s stats to see if he was killing any shade accounts to improve his ratio in order to bring a charge of “Score Potato” that would reduce the kill to death ratio he could bully. But I’m sure Murdr, being a Trainer, is a good stick and after his 14 years of play, I’m sure he knows where to find the easy kills.
Well, these kinds of people like to use the statement, “BLANKS are skill-less, they ruin the fun of others, and their style of play is bad for the game.” Over the years they have been replacing “BLANKS” with “Toolshedders,” “Mega Squads,” “Missions,” “People who fly with friends,” etc. The statement is fine but that is all it is – a statement. There is nothing there that can be discussed or debated. They don’t offer any examples because the statement is only meant to abuse and marginalize other. We then get into debates trying to defend what we enjoy doing, and the next thing we know, we start talking about Federal Rights vs. State Rights.
Well, since I complain about them not using examples, I will give this example: Player A vs Player B in a classic 1-on-1 matchup.
Let’s put them in icon range of each other at the start. Since the desire to win will get them into the fight, and the fear of losing will get them out of the fight; both players try and calculate the probability of success for committing to the fight. They consider how their respective aircraft match up with each other – turn vs zoom, cannon vs machinegun, etc. – and their relative E states. They also take into consideration their opponent’s skill level – is he circling to your six while working the calculations or his he just coming straight at you for example. If both think they have a probability of success grater then 50%, the fight is on. The fight will stay on as long as both think they have a chance to win. If one of the players feels they are losing their advantage, they will try and extend and reset the match if possible. I would say they both where having fun working up to the fight and during the fight itself. But someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. Since this is my example, I’m going to say Player A wins – after all, Player A has been playing the game longer then B. So Player A is happy with his win and Player B is disappointed. You would think the fight is over but it is really just getting started.
Player A, being the bully he is and now having a superior kill to death ratio, goes on Ch 200 and calls Player A “skill-less.” Now depending on the personality of Player B, he has three basic options.
The first option is to just ignore it and move on. The term “moving on” could mean to the next fight, or to canceling his subscription.
The second option is for Player B to respond on 200 that Player A was cheating and his style of play is bad for the game. Films would then get posted and endless debates would start about when you could or couldn’t shoot someone.
The third option is for Player B to find a buddy, Player C, to fly with incase he runs into Player A again.
So let us say Player B chooses the third option and they do meet again – Player A vs B and C. Player A manages to get C but then dies to Player B. Player A is mad because he died and his kill to death ratio went down. Player B is happy to have killed A, and C is disappointed with dying but happy his team won. Again you would think the fight is over but is far from it.
Players B and C could post something about the skill qualities of Player A but they do not because that is not their nature. Player A could get Player D to fly with and start an arms-type race to see who could build the biggest coalition, but instead he decides to make the statement, “Team BC is skill-less, they ruin the fun of others, and their style of play is bad for the game.” Films are posted, endless debates over “picking” and respecting the 1-on-1 fight, debates about the number of players it takes for a mission to become a horde, debates whether the enjoyment of one player supersedes the enjoyment of everyone else, and debates about how big a squad can be before it is consider Mega ensue. So let’s talk about squad sizes.
Let us say the any single player can only form “meaningful” relations with 20 other players. I agree that you form stronger bonds in smaller groups, but just because a squad has more than 20 members does not mean that a squad member will only associate with people inside the squad. He may only really know 15 people inside the squad and 5 outside. Everyone has their own subset of players they bond with. Those associations not only cross into other squads, they even cross country borders. I can’t imagine a squad associating only with its self. I am fairly sure you can start with any player, and within six (or seven) jumps, you will find Kevin Bacon. So even if you limit a squad to 20 members, squads are still going to work together at times – like one squad flying escort for a bomber squad. No, I think we are just spinning our wheels talking about numbers.
The real issue here is about influence and prestige. One sub-group of players feels their influence and prestige has been diminished when people started working together. It does not matter if it be in a mission, squad, mega squad or even just two buddies, people working together is bad for the game according to this sub-group. Since individual achievement is the only thing that motivates this group, they will not work together – as was shown by a certain squad’s experiment – to counter “hoards” directly in the arenas. Instead they post Wishes like this to get HTC to do their work for them.
I’m certainly interested in keeping the game interesting and enjoyable for everyone. If there is some issue with mega squads, please point it out. You just can’t point your finger and yell “Murderer” and then not produce a “body.”
MachNix
p.s. As far as the setting of the squad limits, I think Skuzzy said, “How about two to the fifth.” HiTech asked, “How many is that?” “Thirty-two” replies Skuzzy. “I agree” says HiTech. And the rest is history.
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Nix did you even read what Murdr said, or just get caught up in noodle envy over his higher K/D? You realize he doesn't really give two noodless about his career K/D vs yours, but posted it to show how retarded it is to say your impact in the game depends on what your "score" is in the arenas in the long term? Re-read his post. It's the other contributions that really make the game better long term, not what base you take or who you kill. It was purely in jest to show how stupid that whole argument is.
Next time actually read what he typed before you get blabbing in a wall of text about your own paranoias and noodle envy issues.
Btw I'm a bully, Murdr isn't.
:aok
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It's actually you, who cannot read what he, not very vaguely, stated. But I do appreciate you guys who have to argue regardless. :salute
HiTech is pretty eloquent. If he wanted to say what you THINK he said, he would have just said that.
Geez, what is this? I didn't argue with anyone. I ask for the quote. Thought it might have been misinterpreted and said I would check with HT to find out for sure. Where is the argument?
BTW Falcon, HT said that I was the one that misunderstood the post. :salute
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its cool baddy..RT has 3 wings and I do not believe that ANY one wing is full.We dont usually have more than 15 people on at any one time..Our european wing I think has 3 or so members maybe 5 and we dont see them very often due to time differences..
Falcon23 :salute
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I was under the impression the ratio could only be used to justify bullying, abusing, insulting, or marginalizing another player.
Marginalizing eh? Isn't that what this is?
Speaking for my self, if it wasn’t for these boards, I wouldn’t even know who you where. I don’t see you making any impact in the arenas – maybe our playtimes don’t over lap. So it is hard for me to value someone’s, who appears not to be having an impact on the game, criticism of someone else who is having an impact.
So, I figured we could take a look at the stats to see if your premise of marginalization would hold up to scrutiny. Conveniently enough you had 82 tours on record, and I had 87 which is only a 6% difference. Somehow my non-impacting butt came up with 424% more kills in fighter/attack/bomber/vehicle sorties during that time. That is not to brag or to bully. It is a test of the premise of the statement you made. Or do you believe you are entitled to make statements like the above free from rebuttal? Had I known k/d would be such a distraction, and put you on some wild tangent, I wouldn't have included it.
Hay Murdr, thanks for pulling up the career stats but they are for the game and not for a single arena.
Pssst. You do realize that up until tour 93 there was only 1 main arena? (That's like 83% of the tours I sampled).
You realize he doesn't really give two noodless about his career K/D vs yours, but posted it to show how retarded it is to say your impact in the game depends on what your "score" is in the arenas in the long term? Re-read his post. It's the other contributions that really make the game better long term, not what base you take or who you kill. It was purely in jest to show how stupid that whole argument is.
Thanks Stang. Now I don't have to question if my communication skills were so poor that the point was completely missed ;)
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blah blah blah
For those who are new or have not been paying attention, there is a group of players, who I would call bullies, that think they have the right to abuse other players that are ranked lower in their pecking order. This pecking order is based on the kill to death ratio. Murdr was operating under this criterion when he used our respective stats to justify his marginalization of my comments. I believe the Bully Bylaws allow me, under the “I Only Care about the Fight, Not the Outcome” clause, to challenge him to the DA so our ACM skills can be used to determine our bully ranks. After our fights, we would post our films here on the Bully Boards for review. A panel of respected bullies would then view the films to determine the results. I may not win the match; but if I do a respectable job, I could earn the right to bully other players above my current kill to death ratio. You may remember seeing such films posted where one player claims to have “owned” another. I could also go through Murdr’s stats to see if he was killing any shade accounts to improve his ratio in order to bring a charge of “Score Potato” that would reduce the kill to death ratio he could bully. But I’m sure Murdr, being a Trainer, is a good stick and after his 14 years of play, I’m sure he knows where to find the easy kills.
blah blah blah
Go to the DA or TA with Murdr. I think you'll find you are completely wrong about everything you've said about him. He is helpful, funny, and a good sport.
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Hmmm, sounds like a vast right-wing bully conspiracy to me!! :noid
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Hmmm, sounds like a vast right-wing bully conspiracy to me!! :noid
Right-wing? :uhoh
Most conservatives don't like me...
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Right-wing? :uhoh
Most conservatives don't like me...
You just need to go waaay right to the libertarian right, who would say smoke it up, you're free to do whatever you want as long as you don't harm anyone else.
;)
Or just, huh huh, keep hangin w/ dem hippie chicks. At least they put out, huh huh. I'd keep the lights off and have an air freshener though.
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You just don't know the difference between hippies and stinky hippies. :aok
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[hijack]It's actually uncanny how many things the ultra-right and ultra-left agree on.[/hijack]
You can return to your hippies, now. ;)
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Right-wing? :uhoh
Most conservatives don't like me...
Most "conservatives" don't deserve the title :D
<--- One of those waaaay far right Libertarians... ;)
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Geez...you're all a bucha GOOBERS!!! :D
I said "WING". I said nothing political. This is a game about flying!!! :devil
(though I'm sure that Hilary agrees with MachNix!!) :rofl
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Sorry sir, I was a J@ck@@s that day. I was just trying to point out that your interpretation was slightly off, as you wrote here. <S>
BTW Falcon, HT said that I was the one that misunderstood the post. :salute
:salute
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[hijack]It's actually uncanny how many things the ultra-right and ultra-left agree on.[/hijack]
You can return to your hippies, now. ;)
Ultra-Right would be a dictatorship of some dude. Ultra-Left would be a dictatorship of the people, or at least 51% of the SOBs. I will point out that one advantage of the former is that that some dude has only one throat to be cut.... :D
A Libertarian would believe in NEITHER, and thus does not fall neatly along the single axis of your conventional right/left political thought.
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Hitler was far right. Stalin was far left.
Too far either way and you get basically the same animal.
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Damn your hijack NB!
:devil
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You bastages get my productive discussion locked and........ :noid
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Damn your hijack NB!
:devil
Kewl, eh?? I dint even have to use a gun!! :devil
LLogan...bakatcha :)
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Nix did you even read what Murdr said, or just get caught up in noodle envy over his higher K/D? You realize he doesn't really give two noodless about his career K/D vs yours, but posted it to show how retarded it is to say your impact in the game depends on what your "score" is in the arenas in the long term? Re-read his post. It's the other contributions that really make the game better long term, not what base you take or who you kill. It was purely in jest to show how stupid that whole argument is.
Next time actually read what he typed before you get blabbing in a wall of text about your own paranoias and noodle envy issues.
Btw I'm a bully, Murdr isn't.
:aok
Now stang...did YOU even read Mach NIxs post that Murdr replied too?? He never brought up k/d OR score...murdr did and it confused me as well why he would think this was equivalent to impact??? I don't think anyone suggested that the staff didn't have any impact but there seems to be a denial that folks who actually show up in the arena and PLAY long periods of time have impact as well. The only impact they are given credit for is negative impact.
For Murdr to ridicule Mach's contributions is the height of foolishness...try selecting a skin for most of the planes and see how many are by MAch. I know he is responsible for at least one of the MA maps. Mach's point was that being in a squad such as BoPs kept him interested and having fun in the game...that other contributions outside of training would be lost if he had decided to leave a while ago...
Murdr replied with number of kills and stats...
Love ya Stang but you way off here....
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He never brought up k/d OR score...murdr did and it confused me as well why he would think this was equivalent to impact???
By all means, explain where combat efficiency and effectiveness is irrelevant to the loose term "impact on the arena".
For Murdr to ridicule Mach's contributions is the height of foolishness...
No, the heighth of foolishness is you making such an unsubstantiated statement. Please produce proof of said ridicule. If adding perspectives, and challenging statements is your definition of ridicule, that is your problem, not mine.
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I'll go point by point on Mach's post later, don't have the time now. Bowling league time...
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I'll go point by point on Mach's post later, don't have the time now. Bowling league time...
Golf AND bowling????
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Rule #4...............
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...right back into weenie swinging contests.
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figured that we needed to get this thread back on track
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...right back into weenie swinging contests.
He's a BoP, not sure if you actually expected any other kind of response from someone in their squadron.
ack-ack
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Hey now!!
Lets keep this discusion in the comedic flavor it was intended to be.
Can't believe this is still going on! :O
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By all means, explain where combat efficiency and effectiveness is irrelevant to the loose term "impact on the arena".
Well lets see what mach might have meant....He, like I, didn't even know you played anymore...I believe he likely referred to the fact that arena presence might be important for such things as leadership, organization and fraternity.
I won't paste it all here but going back over the last 12 camps:
Murdr: average 6.5 hours of play per campaign (average 20 minutes/day)
Machnix: average 15 hours of play per campaign (average 30 minutes/day)
Falcnwng: average 33 hours of play per campaign (average 1 hour/day)
Of that you only flew fighters....mach flew mainly vehicles so to compare fiter vs gv k/d seems a bit off IF you are making a case that k/d should matter. If you were to compare my lifetime stats my k/d would be similarly skewed because i goon, up vulched bases, suck in tanks and run supplies/troops in m3s and die alot. I couldn't get spatulas program to work so i dont have my numbers...
No, the heighth of foolishness is you making such an unsubstantiated statement. Please produce proof of said ridicule. If adding perspectives, and challenging statements is your definition of ridicule, that is your problem, not mine.
"For those who are new or have not been paying attention, there is a group of players, who I would call bullies, that think they have the right to abuse other players that are ranked lower in their pecking order. This pecking order is based on the kill to death ratio. Murdr was operating under this criterion when he used our respective stats to justify his marginalization of my comments." -- machnix
The fact that Mach refers to you as a bully should give you pause...perhaps you should reread his post. He is a very mild/quiet squaddie. However he is a big contributor to the game (skins/maps etc). I'm not sure I have ever seen him post before. If you can't grasp that your tone in your posts has the resultant effect then that is your problem but you make it his.
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The fact that Mach refers to you as a bully should give you pause...perhaps you should reread his post. He is a very mild/quiet squaddie. However he is a big contributor to the game (skins/maps etc). I'm not sure I have ever seen him post before. If you can't grasp that your tone in your posts has the resultant effect then that is your problem but you make it his.
Perhaps you two should reread. Regarding his stats I said
Nice :salute
That comes across really harsh I know (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/community/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
The bottom line was that in almost the same amount of tours, I do not in any form or fasion have less combat incidents logged than him. That does not seem consistant with the idea that...
So it is hard for me to value someone’s, who appears not to be having an impact on the game, criticism of someone else who is having an impact.
...being all that valid of a point. Conversly if those stats instead were reversed, that might support his contention. But that is not the case. Ergo questioning my qualifications for having informed opinions, or implying the question is invalid.
Of that you only flew fighters....mach flew mainly vehicles so to compare fiter vs gv k/d seems a bit off IF you are making a case that k/d should matter.
Here again, if you would read, I already posted...
Had I known k/d would be such a distraction, and put you on some wild tangent, I wouldn't have included it.
Finally, I did not fail to notice that you did not produce a quote of me to support the notion that
For Murdr to ridicule Mach's contributions is the height of foolishness...
Probably because there is nothing to cite.
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Sorry caught a math error....Murdr averaged 13 minutes/day of MA time over the last 12 months...not 20 minutes.... :salute
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Sorry caught a math error....Murdr averaged 13 minutes/day of MA time over the last 12 months...not 20 minutes.... :salute
Some people can't go to war against the evil town buildings all that much a week... :devil
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Rule #4...............
:salute
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Some people can't go to war against the evil town buildings all that much a week... :devil
Wow. I logged 70+ hours in one tour in the past 12 months if I total my accounts together. I'd have never guessed. To be fair, we should knock 1566 kills and 398 deaths off of my previous career total, if we're only counting my primary account :)
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We again seem to be talking in circles and I am most ready to agree that it is useless....
I'll try to sum our point up (i hope i am not inappropriately representing mach)
1. You equate k/d, number of kills, ACM with the term "impact"
2. Mach equates comradery, presence, direct squad/country based leadership, doing more then just flying an airplane with what "impacts" him and our squad.
Neither definition invalidates the other...it is a matter of perspective...
Perspective ( or opinion) is what separates the two "camps" here and all the posting in the world won't solve that...we each have our own paths....it would be best if we just respected our differences and looked for the ways we can have fun together.
The tact of trying to change gameplay by pressuring large squad c.o.'s to dictate game play to their squads is a bad plan and is divisive for the community....but this is what you see debated on the bbs. The answer i believe is for the folks who wish a different gameplay to provide ARENA leadership, maintain arena presence and promote ACM through posting fiter missions etc. In essence the opposite of what most missions posted are for now. It worked for the large squads...why wouldn't it work for you? :salute
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1. You equate k/d, number of kills, ACM with the term "impact"
I did not say that, and only that, is a measure of impact, but would it not be inconsistant to overlook combat activities in a game where the developer has said
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat.
??
The tact of trying to change gameplay by pressuring large squad c.o.'s to dictate game play to their squads is a bad plan and is divisive for the community....
The point is that large/mega squads are not part of the game design. When one exceeds a design specification, then other parts of the designed system may become vunerable. Judging by what you've said in the past, it appears you acknowledge the possibility of unintended side effects of ignoring the design parameters, and have adjusted your protocols accordingly. Kudos to you.
Others have not however, and would rather argue why it is justified to ignore the design parameters, rather than examining if it is having any negative impact on overall gameplay. To the contrary, a few people display quite a bit of hubris about doing it, and then delusionally cite jealosy as the reason for anyone disagreeing with their claims. As long as that is the case, this subject will not go away.
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He's a BoP, not sure if you actually expected any other kind of response from someone in their squadron.
ack-ack
Good thing that was just a squad prejudice comment. :mad:
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Good thing that was just a squad prejudice comment. :mad:
As opposed to what?
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We again seem to be talking in circles and I am most ready to agree that it is useless....
Truth.
I'll try to sum our point up (i hope i am not inappropriately representing mach)
1. You equate k/d, number of kills, ACM with the term "impact"
2. Mach equates comradery, presence, direct squad/country based leadership, doing more then just flying an airplane with what "impacts" him and our squad.
I dont know whether or not you are misrepresenting Mach's thoughts, and I dont want to speak for Murdr since he can do that just fine all on his own, but to the average reader, me in this case, it seems you are only seeing what you want to see.
Murdr did not equate K/D, an aggregate number of kills in any given period or ACM, in and of themselves, respectively, as any sort of be-all, end-all indication of "impact." The sum of those parts, however, in this particular instance, may serve to provide some degree of insight into the overall style of play of a speaker.
As such, if you can identify the style of play, you can determine how much weight you wish to put upon the opinions voiced by that particular speaker.
If you have a thousand tank v. tank kills and zero fighter kills... Im not going to be all that concerned with your opinion on whether or not the Spitfire 16 is overmodeled. However, if you have an opinion on the range of a 75mm AP round and how its trajectory after 3,000 meters is wrong, I'd be all ears.
This is where "Perspective" comes into play. My opinion? Murdr contributes a whole hell of a lot to this community. All the trainers, all the skinners, all the testers, all the posters with vaults full of technical data and all the unsung, behind the scenes types contribute more than just their time to make all of this a better experience for the rest of us.
Also my opinion, I do not think that any real positive "impact" comes from: (your words) "comradery, presence, direct squad/country based leadership, doing more then just flying an airplane."
Camaraderie is a great thing - both from a squad perspective and a game perspective. You left out the latter.
Leadership? Thats a different discussion. I can think of several great leaders, throughout history, who had decidedly negative impacts on the world.
Doing more than flying an airplane? Like what? Driving a tank? Or... training, skinning, writing educational articles, holding seminars, clinics, etc, etc?
Neither definition invalidates the other...it is a matter of perspective...
Absolutely correct - but then we're not talking about "impact" as it relates to perspective, anymore. What we are really talking about is how to value the validity of a player's opinion, as alluded to, above.
Your perspective is different than mine and your opinions are different than mine. Thats fine. Its your $15.
In tandem with perspective, however, one typically finds that experience rears its ugly head. This, of course, is usually because experience gives perspective.
In that mold, one must consider the experience level of the posters belonging to each "camp" as you term them.
With every honest attempt to avoid any significant divisive commentary, I see a lot of newer players in your "camp."
By contrast, I see a lot of 1999's, 2000's, 2001's and 2002's in "ours." Most of those would go back even further had this particular BBS been around earlier or had people come, in a more immediate fashion, from AW/WB to AH.
Without pulling any punches, thats really where the buck stops regarding perspective.
The greater depth of "experience," as it relates to "perspective," by definition, and therefore by default, makes, in my opinion, my thoughts more relevant than yours. Ive seen more, Ive played longer and Ive watched the game and the community evolve from a perspective beyond yours, so to speak. I see whats good for the community and I see whats not. Thats not a matter of "opinion" so much as its a matter of assessing whether the game, as a whole, is better - today - than it was five years ago.
The answer is no.
I can give that answer because I was there, years ago. Player X can not because he started in 2005. He lacks perspective.
To that end, it is my contention that many of the newer players "camp 1" are of the opinion that they are entitled to change the nature of the game to suit their own aims. They behave in direct opposition to "camp 2" - those of us who adapted our aims to suit the nature of the game.
We were all new, once. Not all of us arrived with a total disregard for the existing pecking order.
What you see as a positive impact, I see as a self-serving, irresponsible, disrespectful and forceful method by which to impart your vision of what the game should be - upon those who made it what it was.
Thats the bottom line, really. Politically correct? Nope. Accurate? I think so. ::shrug::
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Truth.
I dont know whether or not you are misrepresenting Mach's thoughts, and I dont want to speak for Murdr since he can do that just fine all on his own, but to the average reader, me in this case, it seems you are only seeing what you want to see.I would say you are choosing to view the world thru your lenses and I mine...i say this having already read the rest of your post
Murdr did not equate K/D, an aggregate number of kills in any given period or ACM, in and of themselves, respectively, as any sort of be-all, end-all indication of "impact." The sum of those parts, however, in this particular instance, may serve to provide some degree of insight into the overall style of play of a speaker.The debate here is over how to define the term "impact"...I am willing to grant that some may have your point of view...it is unclear to me why it is so hard for those like yourself to admit that there may be "different" reasons and goals people have for themselves in this game??
As such, if you can identify the style of play, you can determine how much weight you wish to put upon the opinions voiced by that particular speaker.
If you have a thousand tank v. tank kills and zero fighter kills... Im not going to be all that concerned with your opinion on whether or not the Spitfire 16 is overmodeled. However, if you have an opinion on the range of a 75mm AP round and how its trajectory after 3,000 meters is wrong, I'd be all ears. Exactly...spot on...so why would I even want to be engaged in a debate with someone who ONLY flies fiters about the "proper way" to take bases, gv, run supplies, or run a squad that does such things?? Would one perhaps find such suggestions as self-serving? If your only definition of "combat" and "impact" involves fiters then it is simple to see why we really should not debate. Our purposes are not aligned at all. I'm sure Wal-MArt doesn't debate with Jeff Gordon over the way to run their supply trucks faster or more efficiently
This is where "Perspective" comes into play. My opinion? Murdr contributes a whole hell of a lot to this community. All the trainers, all the skinners, all the testers, all the posters with vaults full of technical data and all the unsung, behind the scenes types contribute more than just their time to make all of this a better experience for the rest of us. And i have said nothing to suggest your opinion is not valid...I did take offense at widewing in a previous thread but since then we have sorted things out
Also my opinion, I do not think that any real positive "impact" comes from: (your words) "comradery, presence, direct squad/country based leadership, doing more then just flying an airplane." AND we would be in complete disagreement over this...so would Mach and other guys in my squad. What a great country we live in that we can have 2 completely different opinions and not feel the need to FORCE our point of view on someone else.
Camaraderie is a great thing - both from a squad perspective and a game perspective. You left out the latter. I have "friends" on all countries...many rooks/knits fly on our ch when they come over especially on sqaud night. Your problem is you actually see these as two different things...my definition of comradery is simply more sweeping than yours
Leadership? Thats a different discussion. I can think of several great leaders, throughout history, who had decidedly negative impacts on the world.agreed
Doing more than flying an airplane? Like what? Driving a tank? Or... training, skinning, writing educational articles, holding seminars, clinics, etc, etc? Those who derive enjoyment from such activities are super....however if they are only doing it because of recognition or status then they may have issues (much like government....either you serve the people OR you are serving yourself. Surely they are not only doing this because they crave recognition??? or elite status??? Am I somehow better because I teach Sunday school or work at the free clinic then other citizens in my town??...the answer is "no"...but I'm somehow lessened in your virtual world because I use the skills I have outside of AH instead of being volunteer staff here...makes no sense
Absolutely correct - but then we're not talking about "impact" as it relates to perspective, anymore. What we are really talking about is how to value the validity of a player's opinion, as alluded to, above.
Your perspective is different than mine and your opinions are different than mine. Thats fine. Its your $15.
In tandem with perspective, however, one typically finds that experience rears its ugly head. This, of course, is usually because experience gives perspective.
In that mold, one must consider the experience level of the posters belonging to each "camp" as you term them.
With every honest attempt to avoid any significant divisive commentary, I see a lot of newer players in your "camp."
By contrast, I see a lot of 1999's, 2000's, 2001's and 2002's in "ours." Most of those would go back even further had this particular BBS been around earlier or had people come, in a more immediate fashion, from AW/WB to AH.
Without pulling any punches, thats really where the buck stops regarding perspective. You really don't see or understand the bias of the BBS??? Did you even know that i moved the squad here and have been in AH since 2001? Look at my number of posts compared to yours and others of the "experienced" crowd. See that I didnt even sign on to the bbs for a period of time. I played AW from ~1997 til I moved here and never posted once. Almost a third of my squad is from the AW days...we have more who have moved on over time but still play
The greater depth of "experience," as it relates to "perspective," by definition, and therefore by default, makes, in my opinion, my thoughts more relevant than yours. Ive seen more, Ive played longer and Ive watched the game and the community evolve from a perspective beyond yours, so to speak. I see whats good for the community and I see whats not. Thats not a matter of "opinion" so much as its a matter of assessing whether the game, as a whole, is better - today - than it was five years ago.Again I have played this game from AOhell to present, I'm not sure that will slow you down though...as Johnathan Stewart would say "Proceeeeed....." :rolleyes:
The answer is no.and for me, it has changed but I like most of the changes
I can give that answer because I was there, years ago. Player X can not because he started in 2005. He lacks perspective.
To that end, it is my contention that many of the newer players "camp 1" are of the opinion that they are entitled to change the nature of the game to suit their own aims. They behave in direct opposition to "camp 2" - those of us who adapted our aims to suit the nature of the game.
We were all new, once. Not all of us arrived with a total disregard for the existing pecking order. This may be the reason you are really upset...you see a pecking order where many do not...lack of desired recognition can be frustrating and I DO BELIEVE that is the root of problem...folks who need recognition versus folks who don't see accomplishments within a video game as anything worth getting worked up over
What you see as a positive impact, I see as a self-serving, irresponsible, disrespectful and forceful method by which to impart your vision of what the game should be - upon those who made it what it was. Now I hate to incur the wrath of the Muppets but if you call what occurs nightly on ch 200 from your C.O. and his followers "positive" then I totally agree with the rest of your statement! (Mark don't jump me....you know how i feel about 200 :t) Once again Mazz you have no concept of our squad or what we do or don't do...i come under fire as does my squad because we like to "stand up" to those we consider to be "BBS bullies". I don;t always disagree as much with the message as i do the messenger. A long time ago it was the BKs...now it appears Muppets and the DFC have assumed the mantle of preaching the "right" and "Wrong" way to have fun for $15...
Thats the bottom line, really. Politically correct? Nope. Accurate? I think so. ::shrug::shrug back :salute
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If you have a thousand tank v. tank kills and zero fighter kills... Im not going to be all that concerned with your opinion on whether or not the Spitfire 16 is overmodeled. However, if you have an opinion on the range of a 75mm AP round and how its trajectory after 3,000 meters is wrong, I'd be all ears.
Exactly...spot on...so why would I even want to be engaged in a debate with someone who ONLY flies fiters about the "proper way" to take bases, gv, run supplies, or run a squad that does such things??
:huh <sarcasm>Ahh, well yes, obviously air superiority and CAS/JABO have no role in base taking </sarcasm> :huh
<raises hand, clears throat>This here simple hillbilly inbread fighter jock has had dozens of captures, 1000+ GV kills, and one of dem dere single diget overall ranks. Is it ok if'in I speak amongst you high falutin folk? :confused:
The debate here is over how to define the term "impact"...I am willing to grant that some may have your point of view...it is unclear to me why it is so hard for those like yourself to admit that there may be "different" reasons and goals people have for themselves in this game??
It's unclear to me how "having an impact on the arena" could possibly be defined as one persons set of goals at the exclusion of anyone elses different set of goals.
Let's try it one more time. Your man was dismissive of my comments on the basis of not witnessing "you [me] making an impact in the arenas". So I offered up something tangible in reply. In no way did I refute anyone elses claim or flavor of "impacting the arena". Without taking the time to parse everyone elses posts, I do not believe Stang or Mazz marginalized anyone elses form of impacting the arenas either. Yet pages later, it is you and your guy that is unwilling to concede that "killing lots of enemy" is a form of impact. Now comeon, who's really being obstinate in this discussion?
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hmmmmmmmmmm.................. ...what was this thread abot?....I can't seem to remember.
Oh wait..it was one giant troll.................
It's just a game
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Oh wait..it was one giant troll.................
No it wasn't. It was about the bastardization of "squad" status and a way to curtail them.
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[whine]
But if you aren't taking bases for the reset you aren't having any impact!!!!
[/whine]
[/sarcasm]
:rolleyes:
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(http://blogs.amnestyusa.org/pub/amnestyusa/death-penalty/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
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The debate here is over how to define the term "impact"...I am willing to grant that some may have your point of view...it is unclear to me why it is so hard for those like yourself to admit that there may be "different" reasons and goals people have for themselves in this game??
I dont need to admit that at all, I understand it. Some people are score weenies, some people are furballers and some people are land grabbers.
The reason we are having this discussion is because, so far as I can tell, we disagree on the issue of the "impact" that certain players' goals have on the rest of the player base.
For example... in my mind, you represent the horde. Now, I enjoy fighting against the horde for a set period of time. Ill up at the base under attack and have a ball for 10-15 minutes. I might even get a couple kills.
Sooner or later however, near the end of those 10-15 minutes, I wonder why I keep upping only to make it to 180IAS and get popped by one of twenty circling La7's, who will go land his 2 kill vulch sortie and proclaim himself God of AH on 200. So I leave.
Now, Im not suggesting that you not take bases - its an integral part of the game. But the "impact" that a horde has on the sector of their desire is, ultimately, demoralizing for the other side. Its so lopsided that the game transitions from fun to frustrating.
If this was limited in scope, I wouldnt have an issue with it. BUT. When I log in these days, I usually have one of two choices: up at a field being vulched or up to go vulch a field. There doesnt seem to be much inbetween anymore and, I assure you, I abhor 10v1 just as much as 1v10. Nothing annoys me quite so much as someone "clearing my 12."
Point is, the horde mentality doesnt seem to consider the "impact" that they are having on the enjoyment of the other players. If thats the "goal" then its self-serving, as previously stated. If not, then the lack of consideration, in and of itself, is a primary catalyst for why the gameplay has changed.
If your only definition of "combat" and "impact" involves fiters then it is simple to see why we really should not debate. Our purposes are not aligned at all. I'm sure Wal-MArt doesn't debate with Jeff Gordon over the way to run their supply trucks faster or more efficiently.
Similar enough to the above so I wont repeat it, but, just to be a little bit of a dick, Im sure Wal-Mart knows how to move supply trucks far more efficiently than Jeff Gordon. He's not a logistics guy. Hell, he cant even turn right. ;)
AND we would be in complete disagreement over this...so would Mach and other guys in my squad. What a great country we live in that we can have 2 completely different opinions and not feel the need to FORCE our point of view on someone else.
Agreed! However, considering the above, a horde does, in effect, "force" its style of play in the arena. If their was an effective counter for it, or an alternative to it, we wouldnt be having this discussion.
my definition of comradery is simply more sweeping than yours
I'd state the inverse, but ok.
Those who derive enjoyment from such activities are super....however if they are only doing it because of recognition or status then they may have issues (much like government....either you serve the people OR you are serving yourself. Surely they are not only doing this because they crave recognition??? or elite status??? Am I somehow better because I teach Sunday school or work at the free clinic then other citizens in my town??...the answer is "no"...but I'm somehow lessened in your virtual world because I use the skills I have outside of AH instead of being volunteer staff here...makes no sense
Ouch. Hit a nerve? I dont think any of the volunteers are seeking recognition. I think they do what they do to improve the gaming experience for all of us. Thats a key point.
Its a key point because its, so far as I can tell, and correct me if Im wrong, a horde does what they do to improve the gaming experience for themselves.
Bringing non-virtual contributions to society into this thread is silly. We have boatload of real life men and women on this BBS who make REAL contributions to society; military, clergy, law enforcement, emergency response, education, or something as simple and unsung as waiting at the stop until the neighborhood kids get on the bus. None of it has an impact in-game, which is what we are discussing.
You really don't see or understand the bias of the BBS??? Did you even know that i moved the squad here and have been in AH since 2001? Look at my number of posts compared to yours and others of the "experienced" crowd. See that I didnt even sign on to the bbs for a period of time. I played AW from ~1997 til I moved here and never posted once. Almost a third of my squad is from the AW days...we have more who have moved on over time but still play.
Again I have played this game from AOhell to present, I'm not sure that will slow you down though...as Johnathan Stewart would say "Proceeeeed....." rolleyes
I dont see any sort of bias. I see opinions from different posters, motivated by different experiences. If youve been playing since AOL, then you understand exactly what this genre used to be and what it has become. No further text is necessary to illustrate my point to this effect.
This may be the reason you are really upset...you see a pecking order where many do not...lack of desired recognition can be frustrating and I DO BELIEVE that is the root of problem...folks who need recognition versus folks who don't see accomplishments within a video game as anything worth getting worked up over
To a certain extent I will agree, in concept. Although, personally, I am not upset, I am disappointed with the path that the game has taken - largely driven by the style of play.
To that end, its not as cut and dried, or arrogant for that matter, as simple "seniority." Those of us who have been around longer are here to help. In days past, most newer players wanted that help and were grateful for the time spent.
These days, most newer players simply show up and think they own the game. It doesnt work that way. Since you mentioned real life contributions, although I disagree with that applicability in this case, Ill simply ask you to consider how you behave for the first few weeks after you have been hired to a new job.
Do you run around shooting your mouth off and thumbing your nose at the CEO?
Nope. You'd get fired.
You listen, you watch, you learn. People are anxious to bring you up to speed but, you know what? If youre going to be a pissant and generally disrupt the environment *already in place* your value, in the eyes of more senior employees, will be diminished significantly.
Now I hate to incur the wrath of the Muppets but if you call what occurs nightly on ch 200 from your C.O. and his followers "positive" then I totally agree with the rest of your statement! (Mark don't jump me....you know how i feel about 200 Evil) Once again Mazz you have no concept of our squad or what we do or don't do...i come under fire as does my squad because we like to "stand up" to those we consider to be "BBS bullies". I don;t always disagree as much with the message as i do the messenger. A long time ago it was the BKs...now it appears Muppets and the DFC have assumed the mantle of preaching the "right" and "Wrong" way to have fun for $15...
I dont speak for the AoM and I dont speak for the DFC. I speak for myself. I dont perceive there to be any sort of "bullying" activity - however I do recognize self-policing when I see it and I agree that it is effective.
Those of us who are vocal on 200 are self-policing. If you take offense to it, you really shouldnt. If you could hear those individuals laughing on vox while they type what makes your blood boil, you'd have a different opinion. Ironically enough, most of those guys are the nicest people youll ever meet.
As such, squads like AoM, the BK's, etc, etc. These are groups made up of, by and large, long-time players. There are old Damned sticks floating around, old Nomads, old Misfits - and they congregate into groups, for better or (sometimes) worse, because their style of play is similar.
The squadron I am lucky enough to be a part of isnt so much a squadron as a gaggle of widely varying personalities who have one thing in common: we are all, in comparison to the average player today, psychotically aggressive when it comes to engaging bad guys, regardless of the odds.
Basically, we enjoy a great fight. More importantly, with respect to the subject matter, we dont interrupt a good fight. Ill be the last person to pick you if I see you engaged with a single con. Thats how it used to be.
Today, when Im engaged and having what may turn out to be a great fight with another player, its all to often cut short by the waves of Spit 16's, La7's and NIKI's that damned near fight each other to get a shot at me.
Thats where self-policing comes into play. The MOST vocal players on 200, if you notice, are only vocal when those good fights are ruined by fifteen no-name dweeblettes.
By contrast, those "offensive" 200 typers are the first to salute the player who shoots them down on equal footing.
In a nut-shell, since Ive gone on a tangent once more, the "bullies of the BBS" are, ironically enough, the most considerate of other players and their enjoyment of the game.
These threads end up like this because a significant portion of the player base seems to place very little, if any value, upon same.
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So I’ve read 95% of this thread, and it’s rather amusing to me. In one corner it’s the “Mega Squads” in the other is the “Anti Mega Squads”. Who’s right, who’s wrong? I’ve flown with the Lynchmob, a multi winged squad, I’ve been a BoP as well, and recently I took a break from the game to pursue some real life projects. I’ve come back to see that my friends the Lynchmob and BoPs are still here. Most of these players are much older than I and I respect them and I consider them all my friends. I would not be afraid to share any bit of my personal life with them or ask them for life advice. Currently I am flying alone because I choose to, not because the BoPs are bad, or any of the other squadrons that have offered me a spot are bad. It’s just not my time to be in a squad.
So the mega squads do not allow people to become tight knitted groups? So what about people that never change countries? Are they detrimental to the game because they do not mingle with the other countries player base?
Quote from: Ack-Ack on February 12, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Maybe it's time that SAPP restarts "Operation Bozo", since one of SAPP's main goals is the destruction of squadrons in the game.
What about this quote, if this was sarcasm please ignore. But wouldn’t this be considered detrimental to player’s enjoyment of the game?
I hold no grudges or feeling for other peoples squads, large or small. I play this game mostly for fun, and its often hard for me to find such a large group of people with a common interest. WWII era aviation/armor.
I can honestly tell you what drew me to both of the previous squads, and it had nothing to do with numbers of people, it had 100% to do with the TYPES of people. To be honest there are many people in here that I would be honored to be in there squads, because of the types of people they really are. And there are many squadrons I would not feel comfortable in because of the type of person I am. I came back to AH for the people that I missed, Falcnwing, Betty, Solar10,WT666, ThndrEgg, Smokey23, Bosco, Sniper30, BMathis and the list could go on, whether we were all on one big squad or no squads in AH at all, I would still fly with these people.
Just my opinion,
Respectfully yours,
Coprhead (5PointOh(Nathan))
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Quote from: Ack-Ack on February 12, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
Maybe it's time that SAPP restarts "Operation Bozo", since one of SAPP's main goals is the destruction of squadrons in the game.
What about this quote, if this was sarcasm please ignore. But wouldn’t this be considered detrimental to player’s enjoyment of the game?
Respectfully yours,
Coprhead (5PointOh(Nathan))
Purely in sarcasm. Some of the posters in this thread had accused Corky, myself and a couple of other P-38 flyers for being 'anti-squadron' and helping to get rid of them from the game. This was one of the reasons why SAPP was formed and the foundation for SAPP's evil, nefarioius plans for world domination and conquest of which "Operation Bozo" was the first stage. Obviously a joke.
ack-ack
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What's so funny is some of the people here arguing with each other are some of the nicest people in real life.
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What's so funny is some of the people here arguing with each other are some of the nicest people in real life.
That's the thing. Anonymity (internet) vs. face-to-face. How odd.
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Yea in real life, infront of the computer you can kick anyones behind...different story face to face.
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In real life we'd be able to get right down the point instead of having points get lost in translation.
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I think overall we'd find we have a lot more in common than we care to admit.
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I think we all enjoy sheep
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I think I have a mild hangover.
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I think I've got a raging hangover
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2nd that on the raging hangover!
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In real life we'd be able to get right down the point instead of having points get lost in translation.
This is so true beyond measure. I can't count the times I would have loved to talk up a subject on the phone or over a cup of coffee.
Have a great day,
Way
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I think overall we'd find we have a lot more in common than we care to admit.
I'll repeat my invitation for anyone who wishes to hang out with BoPs to join us on ch 182...I think most of the folks who see us in a negative light would be suprised...
I'm sure the opposite is true as well...
I appreciate Moot, Murdr, Mazz et al for taking their time to debate/interact with me in this thread...for now I think I'll just go play the game :salute
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Well gosh! Thanks for worrying about the use of my time. I guess it takes you a little longer to press 2 buttons on a cell phone than it does me. You might wanna spend some time in then Cell Fone TA to work on that. :)
;)
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SkyRock<--owns tuned vox's and megasquads! :aok
:noid
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<----owns SkyRock...in my dreams :P
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<----owns SkyRock...in my dreams :P
Bet you're 'on top' in those dreams too.
:D
ack-ack
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Bet you're 'on top' in those dreams too.
:D
ack-ack
:rofl