General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: edge12674 on January 12, 2024, 01:32:58 PM
Title: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 12, 2024, 01:32:58 PM
This is an attempt to move a discussion on the current state of AH vs. other aerial combat sims to a more appropriate forum.
I still hope that HiTech will come out of semi-retirement and update AH, but it has been about 10 years since the last significant update. This is not a slam on HT, the man has earned his retirement and I sincerely hope his quality of life continues to improve. This discussion is also not intended to offend other AH players, but rather to share as consumers, what our experiences have been with our favorite hobby.
I played AH for 20 years and before that followed HiTech over from AirWarrior. I have made many friends in AH and still keep in contact with my squadmates here.
For me personally, I decided to try out DCS and IL-2 due to dwindling numbers, a lack of "fighter pilot aggressiveness" in the MA, and stale game play.
Despite its age, AH still has several features I wish other sims would incorporate. Namely a good PTO plane-set and multiplayer buffs.
Comparing DCS multiplayer (WWII only) vs. AH, I have found DCS has better flight modelling, a better damage model, better graphics, better weather/clouds, and more realistic voice comms. The increase in fidelity has renewed my passion for aerial combat. I have a new found appreciation for WWII pilots who not only had to fight the enemy, but also keep the weather and their own aircraft from killing them.
I have found the DCS community to be very helpful to newbies and there is a plethora of manuals and YouTube tutorials to help the learning curve. One thing I did not expect from the community was the number of real life current and retired combat pilots that play the sim and share their training. The PVP, PVE, and solo playablilty is also robust, so I have more freedom to play when and how I want.
What are your experiences with other aerial combat sims vs. AH?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on January 12, 2024, 02:26:39 PM
I have a new found appreciation for WWII pilots who not only had to fight the enemy, but also keep the weather and their own aircraft from killing them.
This
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 12, 2024, 06:07:18 PM
I've been "flying" PC sims since 1981. I don't know of any since then I haven't tried. My younger brother joined the Army about that time and flew several helicopters including the OH-58 as an aero scout and later was one of the first hundred to fly the AH-64A. He got out of the Army after Desert Storm and flew jets for American until recently when he retired. I've tried several times over the decades to get him interested in the sims I enjoyed. He was never interested until he tried DCS a couple of years ago. Now he has a Reverb G2 and is hooked. He has commented more than once about the accuracy of the sim. Of course it has flaws and the AI at the Ace level sometimes invokes black magic. But still....
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: perdue3 on January 12, 2024, 07:23:47 PM
To me, IL-2 is better in some ways and AH is better in some ways. I love the realism of IL-2 and the stakes that seem a bit higher. But, the comfort of AH and the "arcade" nature of it is much more casual and sometimes more enjoyable. Knowing that I can log in and find a dogfight almost immediately, makes IL-2 so appealing. But, FSO and Special Events really make AH the better game for me. Obviously, the graphics and intricacy of managing the aircraft is both alluring as well as deterring depending on an individual's situation, but I think my overall flight sim life would not be complete without both.
:airplane:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 12, 2024, 10:36:26 PM
To me, IL-2 is better in some ways and AH is better in some ways. I love the realism of IL-2 and the stakes that seem a bit higher. But, the comfort of AH and the "arcade" nature of it is much more casual and sometimes more enjoyable. Knowing that I can log in and find a dogfight almost immediately, makes IL-2 so appealing. But, FSO and Special Events really make AH the better game for me. Obviously, the graphics and intricacy of managing the aircraft is both alluring as well as deterring depending on an individual's situation, but I think my overall flight sim life would not be complete without both.
:airplane:
Casual combat sim is a good way to describe AH. I have been sharing the scenario details and discussing AH in Reddit recently. The two biggest pushbacks I get are somewhat out of date graphics and the subscription model. I get the eye candy thing if that’s your jam but I like the AH sub model way better than wishing and hoping for new planes or maps one day. :old:
As an old fart spoiled with AH bombers I had no idea how starved the flight sim world was for four engine buffs while we up them at will. Ha ha DCS and IL2 :neener:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 13, 2024, 06:35:51 AM
Thanks for trying to move the thread Tshark
I think the time you have for games/sims is also a factor..a large one for me
I spend about an hour a night playing at around 8pm eastern
For that hour AH gives me more entertainment and satisfaction than I get out of IL2 or DCS
Spotting, map navigation and engine management are the issues that lower the fun factor for my sim hour
Also being hooked on vr, I find AH has implemented it best out of the 3 imo
To each their own and I find the other two graphics fantastic..but no other game will see the time I have spent here over the last 23 years
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 13, 2024, 07:57:18 AM
Everyone wants good graphics but that's not my primary interest. If it were I'd just fly around in MSFS. I want realistic cockpits, flight models, avionics, and weapons systems. I also like jets and helicopters. Why limit myself to one sim maker? I don't but have no bone to pick with anyone who does.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 13, 2024, 08:30:51 AM
Interesting Eagler. The length of time it takes to find a good fight was one of the reasons I left AH and prefer DCS.
I would fly around in the MA, early evenings PST, and could not get anyone to engage unless I was taking off from a vulched field. Even then it was always just a one pass snap shot then runaway.
With the dwindling numbers and large maps, I was having to spend more time just flying to a "possible" fight rather than using that time in a dogfight. The numbers and map size also resulted in slower aircraft being left in the hanger. Everyone is flying the few faster aircraft available to cover those distances.
The only place I was finding consistently good fights (similar to the glory days of AH) was on Monday Night Madness. MNM is still one of the few things I miss from AH.
With DCS I have the option of flying a mission that takes less than an hour, having the aircraft either cold start or already on the runway ready to take off. For solo play there are also "Instant Action" missions that start with you entering the battle area.
DCS is also going to implement a "saved game" option that allows single player missions to be stopped and resumed at any time.
I am hooked on VR and have been using the Pimax Crystal for the past six months. That VR headset is overkill for AH, but is just beautiful with DCS. With OpenXR being natively supported in DCS along with eye-tracking/quad-foveated-rendering the performance hit on the PC is much less. With DCS now all I have to do is turn on the headset and start DCS. Doesn't get much easier than that.
That is the double edge sword of AH. It is an old game and easy to get into, because the hardware requirements are so low. Conversely, modern hardware (such as the current crop of high end controllers) are not fully utilized and kind of a waste of money. DCS and IL-2 take advantage of this hardware.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 13, 2024, 09:28:43 AM
I’m too old or too tired to have to deal with all that engine management. When I play IL2 I turn those settings as close to off as I can. Pretty landscapes aren’t a big deal to me either. :old:
For me it’s more about experience than any one nugget and that’s why AH works for me. In the normal time I play there is generally a great bunch of fellas on the rook team and we all have a pretty fun time in country chat. I prefer not to be in a squad anymore but I look for the Regulators whenever I log on and wing up with them. They are a super fun group and play the game the way I like to play it.
I think that’s the secret sauce of AH, its ability to cater to all types of flight simmers. I know people complain about “finding a fight” but I never have trouble. Plus the plane set we have access to should not be understated compared to the others. As I share the scenario details around the interweb I am discovering just how good we have it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 13, 2024, 09:41:23 AM
Tshark ma has had over 100 in it each night between 8 and 9pm every evening for a while now..
Going knights with those numbers I can usually find a fight or three that make my hour in AH
I have tried a couple of solo missions in dcs and they are very pretty but not the same fun for me as a2a in AH
You are missed in ma and mnm
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 13, 2024, 10:03:31 AM
I often enjoy setting up severe weather conditions and using instruments to find my way home and land in a variety of aircraft. Or dark night air refueling. Some of these realistic scenarios can be as challenging as air combat. Different strokes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 13, 2024, 11:04:30 AM
I often enjoy setting up severe weather conditions and using instruments to find my way home and land in a variety of aircraft. Or dark night air refueling. Some of these realistic scenarios can be as challenging as air combat. Different strokes.
I’m cool with all that’s. IL2 is pretty cool at night.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on January 13, 2024, 11:13:05 AM
I just learned the CP/G seat in the AH-64 and it is just plain bad assery
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 13, 2024, 11:16:31 AM
I don't use it for anything else but the xbox controller works well for the -64 front seat. Really need reWASD to get the most from it though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 13, 2024, 12:53:24 PM
Tshark ma has had over 100 in it each night between 8 and 9pm every evening for a while now.. Going knights with those numbers I can usually find a fight or three that make my hour in AH
The numbers were not the biggest issue for me (although I am not a fan of changing sides to make up for player imbalances). For me the attitude of the majority of players changed. The popular mantra seemed to be "never hit someone in anger unless you are absolutely sure you can get away with it". I always preferred to fly T&B fighters. Even when my opponents had the advantage in speed, altitude, lethality, durability, AND numbers, very few pressed an attack beyond one slashing pass then running home. Nothing wrong with a slashing attack, but then extend and re-engage.
I’m too old or too tired to have to deal with all that engine management. When I play IL2 I turn those settings as close to off as I can. Pretty landscapes aren’t a big deal to me either.
I felt the same way for the longest time and it was the number one reason I avoided anything outside of AH. However, "what one man can do, another can do" and once I delved into it I found that engine management is really not all that daunting. A couple instruments to keep an eye on, but for the most part you set RPM and manifold pressure to "max constant" and you are good. The engine management also gives you a little more damage control, allowing you to limp home, instead of just hoping the damage model timer doesn't go off. Jets and helicopter engine management are a set it and forget it affair.
I also like jets and helicopters. Why limit myself to one sim maker?
I agree. I was surprised I enjoy the jets and helicopters as much as I do. I really enjoy the variety. For instance yesterday, I flew with several others in co-op Apache helicopters sharing datalink targets while striking armor and SAMs. Then later a squadmate and me flew I-16s fighting German armor, infantry, and aircraft.
I agree with Dadtallica that AH has a VERY good plane set. The reason for this is that the aircraft models are relatively simple. The more accurate the aircraft model, the longer it takes to produce.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 13, 2024, 01:36:36 PM
Consider how you guys feel about multiplayer online play vs. single player offline play.
If folks were debating some wrinkle of offline single-player play, you would wonder why they care at all and aren't playing multiplayer. Because multiplayer is a whole higher realm of play and enjoyment compared to offline single player.
That's the same distance I feel between scenarios and regular multiplayer.
But when I talk to people who have never tried scenarios, it often feels like this. "Hey, how about for dinner an aged prime ribeye steak, grilled asparagus, baked potato smothered in butter, Caesar salad, a glass of wine, Gulf shrimp cocktail, and for desert fresh-baked apple pie and homemade ice cream?" And the reply is, "Nah. I like my McDonald's cheeseburger." Me: "OK, but how about just trying it?" Reply: "Nah. I'm good."
It mystifies me because, to me, scenarios are the greatest, and no other type of game play comes even remotely close.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 13, 2024, 02:59:19 PM
Here is a recent interaction I had on Reddit as I try and recruit people to AH. It’s not easy lol.
Not sure how the steam player count was calculated but 17 all time is not helping.
(https://i.imgur.com/RnGv8cm.jpg)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Bruv119 on January 13, 2024, 03:27:19 PM
DCS is awesome, AH is still awesome fun IL2 sucks (just imo)
I can't decide where I want to spend the little time I do have to fly. Spent big on a new machine and VR is the next step. Will most likely continue to pop into both just to get a handle on it. DCS updates and new stuff is glacial they have so much to do and so few to get it done. The realism and challenge is what is so satisfying.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 14, 2024, 09:29:33 AM
It mystifies me because, to me, scenarios are the greatest, and no other type of game play comes even remotely close.
Scenarios along with Monday Night Madness, FSO, and the WWI year end party are where the best remaining game play is to be found. Unfortunately, these are only available a few days a month, they are also suffering a decline in numbers, and require you to adjust your playtime schedule (kind of like watching TV before VCR's). I endured the poor game play in the MA for years thanks to these events.
For a flight sim to flourish with today's consumers it needs a good public multiplayer base, a good private multiplayer capability(PVP and PVE), good/varied single player experiences, and of course VR.
VR is more important to flight sims than any other sim genre. The ability to have depth perception can not be over emphasized.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2024, 10:13:47 AM
I agree that the depth perception provided by VR is a game changer. I bought one of the original Rifts. It was awesome but just not clear enough to read instruments in DCS. I eventually gave up on it and then tired a Quest 2. Was disappointed in the small "sweet spot" and gave up on it. Having played sims for decades in 2D on a flat screen I learned to adjust. I can air refuel most or all of the aircraft capable in DCS without VR. Have heard some say they could never have learned to do it without VR. Brother who is new to PC sims says he wouldn't fly them without VR. As of now, VR isn't in my simming future.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 14, 2024, 10:58:51 AM
To me, IL-2 is better in some ways and AH is better in some ways. I love the realism of IL-2 and the stakes that seem a bit higher.
Same here. I somehow got kind of fed up with flying and IL-2 offers many realistic arenas for tanking. I fly here and there as well now and then and manual control coolers is not so big thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 14, 2024, 11:36:03 AM
Here is a post stating how an IL2 server is loaded with players at peak time...less than 60 total
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 14, 2024, 12:37:20 PM
Scenarios along with Monday Night Madness, FSO, and the WWI year end party are where the best remaining game play is to be found. Unfortunately, these are only available a few days a month, they are also suffering a decline in numbers, and require you to adjust your playtime schedule (kind of like watching TV before VCR's). I endured the poor game play in the MA for years thanks to these events.
For a flight sim to flourish with today's consumers it needs a good public multiplayer base, a good private multiplayer capability(PVP and PVE), good/varied single player experiences, and of course VR.
VR is more important to flight sims than any other sim genre. The ability to have depth perception can not be over emphasized.
I think this is one of the things where AH is sold short. You read comments like this and say, "Too bad, this was a fun game in the old days" and players move on.
There isnt anything wrong with what TShark said, but if you didnt know him you wouldnt know that he is posting totally from the point of view of a fighter. AH has so many more aspects to the game than just fighters. There are a dozen different ways to play AH.
Last night (Saturday Jan 13, prime time eastern US) we were running in the mid 140s for players. We were on a mid sized map. There were at least 3 GV fights going on the Bish fronts, three bases under attack with air support , one Bish group running missions and attacking and getting bases back. In this there were supply runs to bring capture bases back up, there were long range attack on depots, there was even an NOE sneak grab with a single guy!. Later a furball developed after the Bish had captured another base which raged on for a good half hour. Was a lot of fun for a game thats dying.
I think it depends on what your looking for in a game. To me DCS and IL2 are too fighter specific. AH gives you fighters but also so much more. Some comments have been posted that those other game are looking for a B17 to be added. Well ya, intercepting bombers or protecting bombers are a major part of a fighters mission profile but it is total ignore to this point in them. If all you want to do is fly around with pretty graphics and a million buttons to activate MicroSoft Flight Sim is for you. If you want pretty graphics, engine management and the occasional fight in a small number of fighter types DCS is for you, and so on.
To me AH is the richer, fuller game over all.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 14, 2024, 01:53:00 PM
Fair enough. AH has it's own pros and cons like any game. However, does the market agree with you?
Selection bias. Asking a bunch of players who have stayed in AH 15-20 years if they think AH is the best, well, of course many are going to say AH is the best because that is why they are still here.
The more illuminating question would be what did the 600 nightly players that use to be here, and left, think? What did the 40,000 players that downloaded the trial during the Steam launch, and declined to subscribe, think?
If the goal is just to keep the players already here, then ignore that. If you want to add more players, simply asking the players already here, and swear they will never leave, isn't very productive if you want to understand where the game is failing to attract.
I suspect the goal is to keep the remaining players and ride them into the sunset and not worry about what would be needed to reverse the numbers trend. I think the loss rate has shallowed compared to years past and demographic mortality is the main source of attrition. That's not an unreasonable strategy given the circumstances. Just keep releasing skin batches and fix any major breaking bugs that crop up and don't sweat it.
IMHO, organic growth has never been AH's strong suit. I think most of it's early growth came from the collapse of competing MP games and picking up their refugees. I suspect the number of players that come to AH brand new not having been a AW, FA, WB, WWIIOL refugee is fairly small. That well has pretty much dried up. No more low hanging fruit.
One possible opportunity might be if IL2 starts to stumble now that the main driver Jason Williams has left the franchise. It is unclear to me if the population is going to embrace Korea as a replacement for WWII in the new upcoming product. If they feel WWII is being put on the back burner, they might consider moving to AH. But I think the subscription model, weaker graphics and lack of engine management will create resistance to that cross-over. Even though WWII centric, they might feel AH is stepping down a notch. However I do think AH has a superior massively-multiplayer server implementation.
Combat pilot is going to be interesting to watch, but it might be 5-8 years before they have a full MP solution. Many a slip between cup and lip. A lot can occur in 5-8 years so it is no guarantee that it will even ship at this point too early to guess.
DCS has given WWII very little focus (so far). Their warbirds are very, very nice IMHO. I spent all yesterday playing with them offline. A fully fleshed out DCS WWII offering would be astounding. DCS has the industry momentum, hype and revenue now to actually get development done instead of withering on the vine. The DCS CEO is supposed to be a closet WWII fanatic and has piloted many of the remaining warbirds (it must be nice to be rich). If they see IL2 faltering, they may decide it is time to pounce and capture that market share. Wags himself has mentioned that eventually they are running thin on compelling modern jets they can implement due to security constraints. Up until now there was no reason to try and directly compete against IL2 when they could make plenty of money on modern jet and rotary. If IL2 starts to stumble with Williams gone and they are running out of jets that are worth implementing, they may decide to move on to the next greenfield ripe for take-over, i.e. WWII. Several WWII airframes are already in the pipeline and Wags has made some vague side references to unannounced WWII projects.
It's an interesting horse race. I really don't know if IL2 players would move to AH in it's current form. If they are looking to leave because they see a lack of WWII development, they might not see AH as any better, certainly not enough to justify a monthly subscription that would be worth the cost of two GB versions every year with nothing owned to show for it. Some might just stay and run over the same ground until they drop like AH's remaining base. Some might move to DCS because they don't want to step down in fidelity.
Maybe it all ends up in a bifurcated market. WT for all the casual pilots and DCS for the simulation level combat pilots. With Combat Pilot being the wildcard we will have to wait years more to form a solid opinion of.
Quote
"It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future." - Niels Bohr
Shrug.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 14, 2024, 02:11:55 PM
Point well taken Fugitive :salute
I have always preferred games that focus on being a simulated fighter pilot. I reluctantly operating buffs and GVs when my squad or side needed it. I feel that AH lost a lot of its aviation focus when GVs became more mainstream. For me buffs are there to protect or attack and I have no real desire to operate them.
As a player operated "total battlefield game", I think AH is hands down the leader. For more realistic ground operations I think IL-2 or DCS does a better job.
There is the possibility within the next few months for interest in WWII aviation to increase dramatically with the "Masters of the Air" series. Flight sim makers should be ready to take advantage of this.
DCS and MSFS did this with "Top Gun Maverick" by selling module combo packs, missions, and liveries. If you watch the DCS "2024 and Beyond" YouTube video, it looks like they might be doing the same for a WWII aviation popularity surge (if it occurs).
I would love it if HiTech Creations also stood ready to take advantage of this by updating and advertising. Sadly, I think HT is content to just "leave the lights on" until AH can no longer covers its operating costs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 14, 2024, 02:29:49 PM
AH provides a lot of dynamic action. I love the large war aspect of it. The strategy of winning a map over a day or few days. Many times fighting in new areas of the map. The CV battles are exceptionally fun. It's very challenging which I like but I imagine pretty tough for people who are just learning air combat, especially having to pay 15 a month for where the real action is.
The special events are also why I still love AH. Combat Challenge, FSO, Scenarios, are very realistic and extremely intense and engaging. There is nothing else like it.
I look at it this way. If I log into AH and don't see any fights or action on a huge map I don't like, I just go play DCS. No point in IL2 as I'd rather learn the more realistic sim. I didnt really care for IL2 either. AH is a little more gamey but I love the flight model. Where all planes have easily identified strengths and weaknesses. Especially not being able to fly in chase mode. I like how you have to take off and take the time to get alt and E and be patient. It's not air spawn easy mode. I think AH provides the best mix of action and battles along with a flight model that mostly makes sense, besides those damn Yaks!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 14, 2024, 03:16:08 PM
In DCS you can turn off external views, labels(icons), and no icons in the map view. This can be set for the mission in the mission editor to control what all players can and can't do. Many multiplayer servers are going to turn those "cheats" off.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on January 14, 2024, 06:32:43 PM
Fair enough. AH has it's own pros and cons like any game. However, does the market agree with you?
Selection bias. Asking a bunch of players who have stayed in AH 15-20 years if they think AH is the best, well, of course many are going to say AH is the best because that is why they are still here.
The more illuminating question would be what did the 600 nightly players that use to be here, and left, think? What did the 40,000 players that downloaded the trial during the Steam launch, and declined to subscribe, think?
If the goal is just to keep the players already here..........................................................................<snip>
Very informative and insightful, thanks.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2024, 07:57:13 PM
Hitech will survive beyond AH. He knew how to coad before Brandon recommended it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2024, 08:14:36 PM
If nothing else, DCS is good for some music videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLHkwiB5ZNk
You guys make some for AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 14, 2024, 09:54:13 PM
Hitech will survive beyond AH. He knew how to coad before Brandon recommended it.
Coding was invented by Al Gore. That's why we have the famous programming language algore. The original version of Aces High was programmed in algore. Later versions in C, though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 14, 2024, 10:01:42 PM
Coding was invented by Al Gore. That's why we have the famous programming language algore. The original version of Aces High was programmed in algore. Later versions in C, though.
So that's where algoreithm comes from. Huh.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 14, 2024, 10:10:36 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 15, 2024, 03:23:55 AM
Anyway, to work all these sims and games need internment. Or was it interment? You know, that huge building somewhere, where all the online shops and youtubers are located.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 15, 2024, 07:55:44 AM
How is the developer feedback in IL-2 since the shake up in the development team?
For those still actively flying in AH has there been any sightings of HT or him answering any questions on 200?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 08:49:15 AM
How is the developer feedback in IL-2 since the shake up in the development team?
Since Enimga made this video, IL2 has revealed that the next product series is going to be Korea. So at least a little communication has occurred.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 15, 2024, 09:22:20 AM
Interesting.
So for WWII the only "new" developments coming are from DCS and Combat Pilot (which looks promising, but several years away).
DCS speculation is that there will be a release of WWII Marianas map, the F6F, F4U, LA-7, WWII carriers and Pacific A/I assets. All possible within this year.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 10:01:03 AM
DCS speculation is that there will be a release of WWII Marianas map, the F6F, F4U, LA-7, WWII carriers and Pacific A/I assets. All possible within this year.
That is the speculation, but I have less confidence in the F6F and LA-7. Who knows. Those are ED planes I believe and they are embarking on converting to Vulkan now so I don't know how much that will absorb their efforts. So I don't know if those make this year, but I'm expecting the others to.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 10:04:16 AM
There has been much anticipation for Vulkan in DCS. I've compared DirectX and Vulkan in other games and discerned little to no difference. Guessing Vulkan has better support for VR which isn't a factor for me. Maybe.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 15, 2024, 10:07:34 AM
So for WWII the only "new" developments coming are from DCS and Combat Pilot (which looks promising, but several years away).
DCS speculation is that there will be a release of WWII Marianas map, the F6F, F4U, LA-7, WWII carriers and Pacific A/I assets. All possible within this year.
That’s all I need to know to not spend a dime on DCS. I also have no interest in the Korean theater. If IL2 went back to the pacific then they would get some of my time and chedda. I will stick with my modded IL2-1946.
For me the graphical and realism differences just do not outweigh the full service WWII experience we get here in AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 10:15:47 AM
40+ years ago I was amazed with Flight Simulator on the Commodore 64. Made me a little sad when they relatively recently decommissioned Meigs field. Funny how those primitive graphics were more satisfying than a few years later when they first started texturing those polygons. The former left most to your imagination. The latter was just too ugly and interfered with the imagination.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 15, 2024, 10:20:32 AM
40+ years ago I was amazed with Flight Simulator on the Commodore 64. Made me a little sad when they relatively recently decommissioned Meigs field. Funny how those primitive graphics were more satisfying than a few years later when they first started texturing those polygons. The former left most to your imagination. The latter was just too ugly and interfered with the imagination.
Was Chuck Yeager’s flight sim on my Apple IIgs for me. Then I got way into the the Microsoft combat flight sims. CFS3 was and is still my fave. The dynamic war aspect was I cool. I think that’s why I gravitated to AH so easily.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 10:38:32 AM
There has been much anticipation for Vulkan in DCS. I've compared DirectX and Vulkan in other games and discerned little to no difference. Guessing Vulkan has better support for VR which isn't a factor for me. Maybe.
Well, even for 2D, if you can jack up performance, that is just more visual quality you can pump in for the same FPS. Better filters, more advanced effects, higher resolution textures, etc.
I think graphics are very important. Perhaps not in keeping committed players, but certainly in providing "curb appeal" to a prospective customer.
The graphics they see in the trailers, review videos, screenshots, etc, form the initial emotional reaction they have to a product. That sorta sets the tone of how they emotionally approach their evaluation. Great graphics already have them excited and they approach the eval like, "Oh man this is going to be awesome!" At that point the sell is yours to lose. You still have to have a good game behind that, but you have set the initial conditions favorable to your argument. Before they have even downloaded the game, you already have them half won.
If the graphics they see in the trailers, review videos, screenshots, etc, suck, they may not even give the game a chance at all. Or if they do, they have already formed an initial negative emotional reaction to a product. That sorta sets the tone of how they emotionally approach their evaluation. Sucky graphics already have them skeptical and they approach the eval like, "I start it up to see if it is maybe better in RL than how it looked in the videos." At that point you are having to work against friction. The sell is going to be doubly hard now that you have to first overcome the initial impression. Even if you have a good game behind that, you have set the initial conditions unfavorable to your argument. Before they have even downloaded the game, they are already thinking this is going to suck.
And frankly, why wouldn't you want great graphics? Really great graphics do increase emersion. The more realistic it looks, the easier it is to suspend your disbelief and forget you are looking at a computer screen. That is a legitimate factor. If AH dumped texturing and just changed to wire-frame rendering, I can't believe the vast majority of players wouldn't say that makes the game worse. So that is your proof that graphics are important, if they can have that level of effect.
What I think is that great graphics are a necessary, but not sufficient condition to success.
It is necessary that you have great graphics to lure in more players to try your game and start the evaluation excited and in a positive frame of mind, and to give the player a pleasant first impression with the UI design on the landing page. But graphics aren't sufficient on their own, the mechanics of the game also have to be at the same high level to seal the deal.
I think it is hilarious that there was a big enough problem they had to release a public note about people using DCS to fake videos of air combat that looked so real they were passing it off as live witnessed iphone captures, and for a while people couldn't tell. I mean that is sort of the visual equivalent of a Turing Test, right?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 10:43:27 AM
Seems Arma 3 has been used to fool people also. Have seen some war videos made with that which could have fooled me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 10:46:57 AM
In a high realism sim it seems many prefer to learn one aircraft thoroughly and become very experienced with it, proving their competence. I'm an input junkie. I want a constant stream of new stuff to learn. Different strokes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 10:48:43 AM
Seems Arma 3 has been used to fool people also. Have seen some war videos made with that which could have fooled me.
You know you need to take a break when you go outside to enjoy the sunset and look at the sky with a peach-orange glow on the horizon fading out to Prussian blue, and wispy fingers of clouds, lavender in the shadows, the edges lit bright by the last golden rays of the setting sun; and your first thought is, "Jeez, these graphics are beautiful. It almost looks like DCS." ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: oboe on January 15, 2024, 11:25:30 AM
I definitely have some interest in Korea, especially if it includes carrier ops with F9F Panther.
If, however, IL-2 had chosen instead to implement crewed two- and four-engine bombers as an extension to the Great Battles series, I think they would've become the dominant sim. I think IL-2 Korea will end up being sortof an also-ran. The Mig-15 will likely be nearly unbeatable against everything (except possibly the Sabre), and the combat apart from that should be mostly ground attack/interdiction. I think there were some escorted B-29 missions as well. But just not nearly the variety of so many aircraft and different theaters as continuing WWII development would allow.
I'm still waiting for DCS to implement a late P-38J. That would be incredible, as well as making their B-17 flyable.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 11:31:01 AM
I want an updated "Megafortress".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFcxI0ybIcc
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 11:58:24 AM
One tangent thought, if the OP will allow... This thread got me thinking last night (usually dangerous), and I think I’ve had a bit of an epiphany.
I think I finally see what DCS plan is with WWII.
DCS currently has a minimal start of a WWII ETO stable. P51, Spit IX, P47, Mossie, 109k, 190D, a90A8. A really nice channel\Normandy map.
But for some reason, instead of continuing on fleshing that out further, they are changing directions and doing WWII PTO stuff. WTF???? That confused the heck out of me. Why end up with two half implemented theaters??? Why change direction???
I have heard that their CEO has a preference for PTO because he loves carrier ops. However, I now wonder if the main driver for the change is the new threat of Combat Pilot.
I don’t think they have ever been threatened by IL2. I think they believe they are higher fidelity and more advances and they can take that genre over at some point when they feel like it, or when they have consumed all the low hanging fruit in modern jet\rotary. And now IL2 has lost the producer who turned their company around with the successful GB series.
They might be more concerned about the threat from Combat Pilot. A new greenfield project starting from a new clean slate without a bunch of legacy technical debt to hold them back, led by a producer with a proven track record of success with a WWII product. And from interviews, it is clear they are going to be leaning more toward DCS level fidelity than IL2. Now that sounds like a threat to DCS’ fidelity dominance.
They may be moving to PTO to cut them off and establish a mature dominant product covering that theater before Combat Pilot can get up on it’s feet. Making it hard for them to break in. They have to directly compete against an entrenched large resource player, instead of being able to fill an unpopulated niche.
I think DCS is moving to put more focus on WWII PTO to strangle the closest potential direct challenger in the crib.
Once that is secure, they can easily go back and finish what they were doing on ETO, especially now that IL2 is careening off into Korea.
$0.02
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 15, 2024, 12:21:00 PM
That makes sense. As a dedicated DCS player, Combat Pilot is the only other sim that has the potential to lure me away. I think few want a high fidelity A6M5 more than I.
The flight sim genre has graduated in its complexity. This is evident not only in graphics and flight models, but even HOTAS hardware. The bar has been raised and any sim not striving to meet it is in a state of decay.
New players to the genre are not put off by a steep learning curve the way we old players are. I look forward to WWII carrier ops where weather and sea state are factors to contend with. I like that not only is the flight/damage/ballistics model accurate, but even things like aircraft tire physics are being implemented.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 12:26:47 PM
For me the graphical and realism differences just do not outweigh the full service WWII experience we get here in AH.
Where is this realism you speak of in Aces High?
The answer is: Nowhere to be found.
The P-47 in DCS looks better sounds better and for sure flys more realistic. You cannot blow the motor up from diving with the cowl flaps open in Aces High, that is because you cannot control the cowl flaps in Aces High. Your calves aren't burning from brake steering a P-47 to take off. Making sure the tail wheel is disengaged on take-off.
You have to manage all kinds of systems in the DCS P-47 all while dog fighting and or ground attacking.
DCS is as real as your going to get as far as flight simulation. It is the top dog.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 15, 2024, 06:04:49 PM
The P-47 in DCS looks better sounds better and for sure flys more realistic. You cannot blow the motor up from diving with the cowl flaps open in Aces High, that is because you cannot control the cowl flaps in Aces High. Your calves aren't burning from brake steering a P-47 to take off. Making sure the tail wheel is disengaged on take-off.
You have to manage all kinds of systems in the DCS P-47 all while dog fighting and or ground attacking.
DCS is as real as your going to get as far as flight simulation. It is the top dog.
I guess reading comprehension is not your sharpest tool. I literally said none of that matters to me over the full service WWII sim we get.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 15, 2024, 06:38:29 PM
I think there is a great deal of realism in AH. Not in plane mechanics or graphics, but in the fight itself. The scenario battles are pretty realistic. The full SA you need in AH is realistic. The nature and natural selection of humans in AH is incredibly realistic. Not being able to go into F3 mode. Having to always take off. The strategy aspects of the work maps. There are realistic qualities. The other games have not provided some of these things.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 06:48:42 PM
All of us posting here have flown in Aces High. Some more than others but probably none measured in less than years. It's good so many still find it satisfying. I certainly would not deny anyone that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 15, 2024, 09:24:42 PM
The P-47 in DCS looks better sounds better and for sure flys more realistic. You cannot blow the motor up from diving with the cowl flaps open in Aces High, that is because you cannot control the cowl flaps in Aces High. Your calves aren't burning from brake steering a P-47 to take off. Making sure the tail wheel is disengaged on take-off.
You have to manage all kinds of systems in the DCS P-47 all while dog fighting and or ground attacking.
DCS is as real as your going to get as far as flight simulation. It is the top dog.
Just curious, how many hours do you have in a real P47 ?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 09:49:14 PM
I never flown anything other than light Pipers and Cessnas irl but try them yourself and see what you think. Costs you nothing but time. You want a real challenge try the DCS 109 but be sure to turn off the rudder assist which is on by default.
It's called "takeoff assist". To turn it off go to the options page, special, 109. Drag the slider to 0. A different ballgame.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 10:06:23 PM
A person with no flight experience doesn't jump into one of these fighters, take off, and start shooting people down. While that can be fun it bears little resemblance to reality. How realistic DCS is in the WWII planes I don't know but I do know you have to spend time learning to fly these planes before you can think about fighting in them.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 16, 2024, 02:31:10 AM
That makes sense. As a dedicated DCS player, Combat Pilot is the only other sim that has the potential to lure me away. I think few want a high fidelity A6M5 more than I.
The flight sim genre has graduated in its complexity. This is evident not only in graphics and flight models, but even HOTAS hardware. The bar has been raised and any sim not striving to meet it is in a state of decay.
New players to the genre are not put off by a steep learning curve the way we old players are. I look forward to WWII carrier ops where weather and sea state are factors to contend with. I like that not only is the flight/damage/ballistics model accurate, but even things like aircraft tire physics are being implemented.
One thing noticeable with new players; they want to do it with keyboard and mouse or PlayStation. My son and some his friends are very fond of WWII. They mostly tank in War Thunder and Enlisted, sometimes my son grabs an aircraft. I have T16000M + TWCS + TFRP, but no. They are just so computer/PlayStation orientated, they think sticks and pedals are old fashioned. Even I do not recall seeing WWII tank or aircraft having keyboard, mouse or game controller.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 16, 2024, 08:34:31 AM
I will admit that if I had spent the time I have in AH in both IL2 amd DCS I would probably have a much different view of them
What dcs is most like ah? Icons on a map, icons on the planes?
It's the inability to locate a fight and then identify the plane if I can spot one that keeps me in ah
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 16, 2024, 09:07:44 AM
"I loved the P-38 but I got those kills in spite of the airplane, not because of it,' Olds recalled. 'The fact is, the P-38 Lightning was too much airplane for a new kid and a full-time job for even a mature and experienced fighter pilot."
What dcs is most like ah? Icons on a map, icons on the planes?
Well all that is there. It's purely up to the mission designer how he wants to use them or turn them off. The culture there, like many in AH, feel no-icons is more realism. But it is there if the mission designer wanted. Although, I think AH icons are better implemented.
The map icons and and inflight icons (they call them labels) have different info level configurations. Map icons can be configured from "Nothing" just a map and you have to figure out where you are, to "Allies Only", to "Fog of War" show allies but only enemies in visual range of another friendly, or "All" show everything enemy or allied.
Labels can be reduced to only a red or blue period '.' under the object which gives you at least IFF with minimal clutter.
There is a lot of configuration available. You just have to find a mission designer who shares your preference or get someone to make you one like that.
The problem I have with their labels is they don't occlude. So that would show through a cockpit frame bar. I guess labels there are not popular enough for them to prioritize improving that. And like AH, I wish I had an intermittent button for labels. Show labels as long as I hold it down but they go away when I let go. So I can do a quick check, otherwise de-clutter my view. That would be an improvement to both AH and DCS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 16, 2024, 09:12:31 AM
I've spent very little time in multiplayer servers other than my own. But, DCS is mission oriented. That means you have an objective and carrying that out will bring you into conflict with the enemy. Many servers probably create missions that are persistent though with AI regenerating based on events.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 16, 2024, 09:16:56 AM
I've spent very little time in multiplayer servers other than my own. But, DCS is mission oriented. That means you have an objective and carrying that out will bring you into conflict with the enemy. Many servers probably create missions that are persistent though with AI regenerating based on events.
Some are, some are just open sandbox capture the flag like Enigma's Cold War server.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 16, 2024, 01:37:34 PM
One area newbies to DCS often struggle with is the control mapping. While it works well it can get complicated. First thing you want to do in any aircraft is check the control settings. DCS will assign a default mapping for all aircraft and detected controllers. It will often map the same axis to multiple devices. You do NOT want that. The aircraft will go crazy and you'll think something is wrong. Just clear all but the ones you want. Also be aware that it can be set read or not read the controls on startup. If your fuel shutoff switch is in the off position and you do a hot start, guess what.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: icepac on January 16, 2024, 03:48:25 PM
So if i show up at DCS, will my unusual mission profiles cause them to squeeze the sim down to something boring?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 16, 2024, 03:56:04 PM
Huh?
ED doesn't host any servers themselves. All servers available for multiplayer are provided by users. You can allow all non official mods, certain mods, or no mods. I think. It might be all or none.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 01:31:31 PM
I want my F 4 E.
You can keep the MTV.
Brushing up on my air refueling skills while waiting patiently.
https://youtu.be/-aJclbIhRbQ
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 18, 2024, 09:44:30 AM
This is my experience going to DCS WWII multi-player from AH.
I always preferred fighters and had spent 20+ years flying AH. Despite positive reviews from fellow squadmates, I resisted trying DCS because it was “too complex” and I was “too old” to learn these complexities. I was in a comfortable rut.
The “groundhog day” experiences of AH and its continued slow decay finally pushed me into the mindset “Right, lets learn DCS and see if this hobby is still worth it”.
With the included kneeboards I realized I did not have to memorize as much as I feared. Every aircraft has a “quick start” kneeboard checklist. I also added customized kneeboards, such as pictures of my HOTAS button mapping and procedures I don't use often.
With DCS WWII multi-player I found: 1) Historical plane match-ups 2) A two country fight 3) Less “gaming” of the sim and a serious will to fight 4) Realistic sounding radio comms 5) Weather and wake turbulence 6) The uncertainty of aircraft identification in battle 7) Survival is not assured till the wheels are chocked
I did not expect what the DCS experience gave me outside of the sim. I live in an area that does a lot of warbird restoration and have had the opportunity to sit in the cockpits of several WWII icons. With only AH experience, the cockpits felt familiar with regards to outside views and the basic “six pack” of instruments. The rest of the cockpit was somewhat foreign (even though I was a private pilot). Since DCS, when I sit in a real cockpit I bring a printed start-up kneeboard from DCS. I do a “touch only” start-up sequence in the cockpit and it all feels VERY familiar.
My passion has be reignited. DCS gave me a new intimacy with the aircraft (both in mechanics and flight characteristics). There is a new level of understanding when I reread some biographies I have. Movies/documentaries seem fuller. I have begun rereading “Fighter Combat”, which I have not done in at least a decade.
For anyone interested it trying DCS, you can do it absolutely free. I can share some tips that allow you to try out all the major features without having a time limit to learn them. Also if it has been awhile since you tried DCS, you might want to check in every now and then. The sim is in a constant state of updating and even a few months see's significant changes.
https://youtu.be/mhLQNuxRqJQ?si=Y2p1US9jZq_hirZL
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 18, 2024, 09:51:59 AM
With DCS WWII multi-player I found: 1) Historical plane match-ups 2) A two country fight 3) Less “gaming” of the sim and a serious will to fight 4) Realistic sounding radio comms 5) Weather and wake turbulence 6) The uncertainty of aircraft identification in battle 7) Survival is not assured till the wheels are chocked
Honestly, I found these same in IL-2. And no, this is not advertising but opinion.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 10:19:33 AM
Honestly, I found these same in IL-2. And no, this is not advertising but opinion.
How do you feel about the new Korea franchise?
In my experience, hardcore WWII players are pretty inflexible when it comes to genre. They dream of WWII and they want to play WWII. I'm curious how many die-hard WWII fans are going to embrace the new Korea franchise.
Some will no doubt, but a lot might not and may start getting annoyed as seeing WWII development be put aside.
No knock on Korea, but it was called the Forgotten War for a reason. I'm just not sure it will have the same emotional resonance with their current base that is there to fly WWII. I'm not even sure they can pull it off with the driving force of their GB series producer gone. They were pretty dysfunctional before he arrived. I suspect the center of gravity will pull them back to that state without his guidance.
I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 18, 2024, 10:25:31 AM
Imo both IL2 and DCS are both much better suited for missiles and radar as nothing is shown on the maps and there are usually not any icons..so Korea should be fine for that
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 18, 2024, 10:28:14 AM
as nothing is shown on the maps and there are usually not any icons
As explained again and again...all that is available. Find an ex-AHer who thinks like you do to setup a server with those settings. It's all available.
I somewhat agree because I'm old and my eyesight is getting worse. It's just not a popular option for that crowd (on average they are probably in their 30's\40's instead of 60's\70's like AH), not that it isn't supported by the software.
Some of it is just due to unfamiliarity and old habits. I have found the more I play the better I am getting at picking those dots up (then zoom the view to check) so some of it is just training your eye to recognize the pattern.
Ever been hunting with a noob and point out a deer to them in the distance and they simply can not see it even though you can clearly. Until their brain has enough experience to recognize the pattern things can truly be invisible.
I remember doing glider training and entering the pattern and my instructor noting we need to keep an eye out on that Cessna to our 11 clk low. I could not see it even though he was telling me where it was , then suddenly oh, there it is. He saw it immediately because his wet-ware had been trained on that pattern recognition. I had my glasses on so my eyesight should have been 20\20. My brain just didn't recognize the pattern yet.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 18, 2024, 10:48:37 AM
Yes I speak about my own experience..
I also have issues playing golf as I cannot follow most of my shots as I lose them in flight...
Same trying to play table tennis while wearing bifocals..not easy, sometimes comical looking as I swing and miss..
Very glad AH is setup as it is as I can usually find a fight quickly and get my daily a2a fix
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 18, 2024, 10:53:24 AM
There has been a lot of discussion of technical strengths and weaknesses of all the sims mentioned but that’s only a piece of it for me, and not the biggest.
I don’t remember who called AH a casual flight sim but that is the best adjective. I fly AH because I enjoy the game style and more importantly the people I fly with regularly. I’m sure most old school AH players fall into this bucket too. Thats of course not to say that doesn’t exist in the other sims but I’m not prepared to cultivate that time. I still play IL2-1946 and the new IL2 career modes are fun but not very dynamic like you get daily here. You end up doing a lot of milk runs and the AI is somewhat sketchy.
Maybe if DCS goes heavier into WWII I will give it a go but jets and copters are not my thing. Played plenty of games with them and I get bored fast. I’m sure I will check out combat pilot and so will every other AH player lol.
Until then I am content with what I play and what we have. I am somewhat spoiled by my time zone and when I play, most nights we have good parity and good game play.
Are the other sims regularly active during off peak AH hours which I would designate as the hours of 7P-11P EST? It seems to be one of AH’s biggest issues.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2024, 11:15:20 AM
I remember doing glider training and entering the pattern and my instructor noting we need to keep an eye out on that Cessna to our 11 clk low. I could not see it even though he was telling me where it was , then suddenly oh, there it is. He saw it immediately because his wet-ware had been trained on that pattern recognition. I had my glasses on so my eyesight should have been 20\20. My brain just didn't recognize the pattern yet.
That brings up an interesting difference between finding a dot on a 2D screen vs finding it in yuge 3D space. On a 2D screen your eyes can focus on an entire area of the screen representing space in its infinite depth. In 3D you cannot. Of course this difference is only in effect for 2D vs real world 3D. VR is only simulated 3D and you don't have to adjust your focus for distance like irl.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: oboe on January 18, 2024, 11:37:32 AM
In my experience, hardcore WWII players are pretty inflexible when it comes to genre. They dream of WWII and they want to play WWII. I'm curious how many die-hard WWII fans are going to embrace the new Korea franchise.
Some will no doubt, but a lot might not and may start getting annoyed as seeing WWII development be put aside.
No knock on Korea, but it was called the Forgotten War for a reason. I'm just not sure it will have the same emotional resonance with their current base that is there to fly WWII. I'm not even sure they can pull it off with the driving force of their GB series producer gone. They were pretty dysfunctional before he arrived. I suspect the center of gravity will pull them back to that state without his guidance.
I guess we'll find out.
Seems to me DCS is much better positioned to pursue a Korean Theater. They've already got the P-51D, the La-7 and F4U coming, they have carrier ops with WWII CV coming, they do helicopters, and they have most importantly the Sabre and the Mig-15.
A couple early 'copters like the Sikorsky H-5 and H-19, and the Skyraider, A-26 Invader, the F9F Panther, the F-80, F-84, and maybe the F-82? For NK add the La-9 and the IL-10. That would pretty much complete everything wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2024, 11:43:50 AM
I love those early jets. Don't go up against a DCS AI Mig-15 set to Ace level though. It can work the vertical like an ME-163 that never runs outta gas. They say it performs more realistically when flown by an organic. Have yet to try that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 18, 2024, 10:19:48 PM
Last I talked to HT, he was working with Vulkan before his bad times hit. Not sure what that means.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 19, 2024, 08:34:32 AM
I actually read this thread. I actually read it because its handled like cognitive maturity. Not beating every thread about how bad AH is and how great their game is. Usually only selecting popular threads. Its rude annoying snd totally obnoxious. Ya couldn’t have a convo about so much as peas without the bashing over-selling to people who just don’t prefer what they do. The person who dies thus, reported me to dcs for mentioning AH on their boards, where I was reprimanded. That is NOT an honest broker. He didn’t like his own meds at all. He dies not have goid intentions, obviously.
This is the way it should be done, even if otherwise would not be allowed.
Some ppl in this thread have honest intensions and accept other ppls choices. That however is not what started the problem. The above IS. Beating ppl over the head in every post is just low class. I like that others new to the subject make their point without bad mouthing AH to death or its players on its own bbs. Its called a mature convo.
Brook, Fugitive, Violator made my personal points for me. AH is what I prefer. We shoild not be shamed because we sin differently than them.
Other grown adults in this don’t pound AH general with daily sledge hammer pounding on every subject. Therefore they get my ear and i appreciate their own choice as they appreciate snd respect my own. My stomping foot was never about someone elses choices, it was about the obsession to weight every subject with it like a non-stop rewind infomerrcial. Its just low class. Some have alternative agendas for being here doing it.
These other guys don’t act that way, I don’t think they do it to harm the sim, which even though the wrong place, a cognitive adult convo is refreshing. I don’t think some here do it to slam the game for “refugees”. That word is insight to intentions of those who are. Way over the top pushy. Which is horrible marketing.
I don’t like single player, AI, slim plane set, buying each plane. Doesn’t make me right nor wrong, its personal preference that I should not be shamed for. Some ppl like chocolate milk, some don’t. “Leave me alone to enjoy what I chose to enjoy.
I honestly do appreciate how this was handled. I’ve been sharply misunderstood by those with ulterior agendas, shocking, I know. Some here will not return everyday to pound every popular thread. This I honestly do appreciate. Get it out and leave it lay. Not 1000 times. I’m expected to come here with tangled hair, spinning head and speaking in foreign languages. I respect those who respect us. So thanks for being civil and respectful to others choices. Until niw it just wasn’t done properly. Its not that much to ask.
Some listen to Taylor Swift, some listen to Black Sabbath, neither is “wrong” nor “ right”. Its personal preference. Do anything that makes you happy, but let me/us be happy too. If I’m nit respected for that, then I have no respect to show. This is how real life goes.
:)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2024, 09:39:06 AM
I very much enjoyed the camaraderie of flying with a squad in AH years ago. Things change. I have flown AH on and off a few times over the years since. I just don't have the energy or time to invest anymore in a real person squad, in any sim. DCS certainly has hundreds of them. AI comes in handy when you want an impromptu mission now and then. It's always ready and requires no commitment.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 19, 2024, 10:35:05 AM
Last I talked to HT, he was working with Vulkan before his bad times hit. Not sure what that means.
I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.
When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2. AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs).
With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7. You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance. The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense. It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent. Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2024, 01:14:15 PM
One day we may be fighting AI for real. Likely get our tulips kicked.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 19, 2024, 11:19:14 PM
I very much enjoyed the camaraderie of flying with a squad in AH years ago. Things change. I have flown AH on and off a few times over the years since. I just don't have the energy or time to invest anymore in a real person squad, in any sim. DCS certainly has hundreds of them. AI comes in handy when you want an impromptu mission now and then. It's always ready and requires no commitment.
Ya I get it, it's mental thing with me, knowing AI is prolly not going to out-think me. I need that challenge of human mind. I've prolly been spoiled with full MP for so long. The adrenaline is hard to beat.
I had a squad in AW and then AH, Flying Tigers 135th, about 20-30, usually got 15 up at one time. Good times, killer squad-mates, they made me look good. Was AW GA, tech support, all that stufff. Seriously miss that stuff.
I think some THINK that I just don't like those games to protect AH, that's not it at all. I have no reason to spite someone for what they choose, I won't gain anything from it. I over-made my point about carpet bombing the bbs. We did the same for AW, you'll do the same for DCS. It's all good. I really didn't mean to imply you others do that, sometimes my wording goes south.
Because of past events, my brain wiped everything I knew about this game, to make room for coping, I'm not sure I know how to code anymore, unless I step back in it. I still have trouble with the basics of the game when I used to have all the answers. I'll prolly never come close to what I used to be. I'm struggling through it. SO I stick with the closest thing I know and hope it outlast me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 19, 2024, 11:29:36 PM
I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.
When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2. AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs).
With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7. You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance. The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense. It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent. Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.
Devotion is a key word of the convo, I think. Once one becomes devoted to any game, nothing will match it, no matter how pretty its worded. I think it's like a lot of things in life one likes to move when they feel they want to move. Talking people into anything, the mileage will vary. If the power of suggestion doesn't work, nothing will. leave it be. A bird will fly when it wants to.
Glad your convo went well. With some it just won't. "Be me, or die", <shrug> I was prepared for the worst that didn't happen. I love being wrong. <S>
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 12:10:39 AM
I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.
When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2. AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs).
With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7. You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance. The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense. It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent. Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.
Personally, from what I've read and heard from many,.. I think it's very safe to say 2k-5k people wished he would, a lot of good memories made here many seem to want to relive again. I think that is an honest number.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 20, 2024, 08:51:15 AM
Devotion is a key word of the convo, I think. Once one becomes devoted to any game, nothing will match it, no matter how pretty its worded. I think it's like a lot of things in life one likes to move when they feel they want to move. Talking people into anything, the mileage will vary. If the power of suggestion doesn't work, nothing will. leave it be. A bird will fly when it wants to.
Glad your convo went well. With some it just won't. "Be me, or die", <shrug> I was prepared for the worst that didn't happen. I love being wrong. <S>
You are quite right about devotion. My devotion to AH was the biggest factor to overcome. I had purchased high end HOTAS and VR equipment and felt "forced" to check out the other competing genre programs due to the state of AH. It was a do-or-die moment for my interest in this hobby, so I purchased MSFS 2020, IL-2, and DCS (at the urging of fellow AH squadmates). I decided I would devote a majority of my hobby time to each program for one month. Either I found a home or would sell my flight sim equipment and walk away from the hobby.
My experience with DCS is mirrored by several of the AH squadmates, but we all come at this hobby from different perspectives. I really enjoy this thread. Hearing what other players, with AH as the baseline experience, think is enlightening. I do still hope that HT will post some news and revitalize AH. I take encouragement that the player numbers are occasionally ticking upward.
I do apologize if my posts seem like a sales pitch sometimes. It is not my intention, but rather to share my experience and encourage others to keep an open mind to try out the current "state of the art" sims. I would really like to see IL-2 and MSFS 2020 provide a free trial, like AH and DCS, so flight sim enthusiasts can make an informed comparison.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 09:27:41 AM
I would really like to see IL-2 and MSFS 2020 provide a free trial, like AH and DCS, so flight sim enthusiasts can make an informed comparison.
Yeah, but you can pick up a GB pretty darn cheap on sale and you then own it, not just renting.
I've been having a similar discussion to this one with a IL2: 1946 influencer over on one of the discords. He was open to hear about AH. I gave him my unvarnished opinion of pro's and cons. We made an agreement. He is going to give AH a try and I am going to try 1946 and we will write up our evaluations and get back together at some point and compare them.
Funny thing was, it turned out I already owned 1946 on Steam. I had just never ran it. I think I bought it on sale for $4.99 and just forgot about it. :rofl
AH was built on ca 2000 code base and 1946 came out I think around 2008. But AH had a significant graphics upgrade ~2017ish, so I am going to test current AH against 1946 + one of their mod super packs. I think that would be the fairest test. No one flys the original vanilla version anymore. I probably won't be able to dig in until mid Feb.
I'm curious, what made you lean toward DCS over IL2?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 20, 2024, 09:45:38 AM
I'm curious, what made you lean toward DCS over IL2?
Looking forward to your comparison of AH and IL-2.
I started by comparing the P-51 model in AH, DCS, and IL-2. Of the three I found the DCS model to be more accurate and inline with my real flight experience. I was surprised how much I liked a "clickable cockpit". It just makes more sense to me than trying to key-bind every control (especially when using VR). The clickable cockpit gives me more of a feeling of intimacy/immersion with the machine than the other programs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Trav02 on January 20, 2024, 09:46:33 AM
Technically, 1946 combines several previous packs and adds some new content, think the original game dates back to 2000-ish. I'm curious, what pack are you thinking of using? BAT is the latest, but is massive, some 80gb. VP Modpack is older but pretty solid.. BAT has tweaked effects I think, but mostly focus on content...give WXTech's effects packs a try, they are revolutionary. Graphics Extender mod is amazing, but unfinished on some regards- would recommend trying it though..
This is all in regards to single player offline...If you're looking for online, ultrapack would be the way to go...it is co-op missions, mainly populated by 20 guys on Sundays...so with regard to online play, AH by miles. Haven't tried il-2 GB though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 20, 2024, 10:00:41 AM
Yeah, but you can pick up a GB pretty darn cheap on sale and you then own it, not just renting.
I've been having a similar discussion to this one with a IL2: 1946 influencer over on one of the discords. He was open to hear about AH. I gave him my unvarnished opinion of pro's and cons. We made an agreement. He is going to give AH a try and I am going to try 1946 and we will write up our evaluations and get back together at some point and compare them.
Funny thing was, it turned out I already owned 1946 on Steam. I had just never ran it. I think I bought it on sale for $4.99 and just forgot about it. :rofl
AH was built on ca 2000 code base and 1946 came out I think around 2008. But AH had a significant graphics upgrade ~2017ish, so I am going to test current AH against 1946 + one of their mod super packs. I think that would be the fairest test. No one flys the original vanilla version anymore. I probably won't be able to dig in until mid Feb.
I'm curious, what made you lean toward DCS over IL2?
The BAT mod is the best one. Makes it a whole new game especially if you like career modes. It’s probably the closet graphical comparison to AH. I do think Aces is better by a bit.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 10:16:34 AM
Looking forward to your comparison of AH and IL-2.
I started by comparing the P-51 model in AH, DCS, and IL-2. Of the three I found the DCS model to be more accurate and inline with my real flight experience. I was surprised how much I liked a "clickable cockpit". It just makes more sense to me than trying to key-bind every control (especially when using VR). The clickable cockpit gives me more of a feeling of intimacy/immersion with the machine than the other programs.
I was the same way. I used to argue vigorously that I didn't want to flip switches. But after a while I like learning about how the actual aircraft really functioned in RL. I still don't want to do cold starts on a MP server, but I don't mind the extra systems management in flight. I like doing cold starts off line in a "mission".
I did have to laugh. He as sounding really excited as he had never heard of AH. Then he went to the website and was ...."Oh you have to pay a subscription. $15? .....Every month?"
You got to understand those guys can buy GB cheap on sale an own it. Subscriptions are a hard sell.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 20, 2024, 10:23:16 AM
As I have been chatting up AH on Reddit recently the sub model is the one thing that stops people. I try to explain that the value you get for that is better than spending the same money to buy new IL2 games or a few planes each year. I know in the end one day you own it all and with AH you do not but I don’t plan to take my cartoon airplanes with me when I go lol.
I’m still out there talking it up anyway.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 20, 2024, 10:25:21 AM
All the games being spoken about I have owned; DCS, IL2-1946, AH, IL2-BoX/GB. DCS is my least favorite and furthest from my real life experience, with AH the closest, IL2-BoX was next then IL2-1946. 1946 has some querks but tones of variety.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 11:04:54 AM
Technically, 1946 combines several previous packs and adds some new content, think the original game dates back to 2000-ish. I'm curious, what pack are you thinking of using? BAT is the latest, but is massive, some 80gb. VP Modpack is older but pretty solid.. BAT has tweaked effects I think, but mostly focus on content...give WXTech's effects packs a try, they are revolutionary. Graphics Extender mod is amazing, but unfinished on some regards- would recommend trying it though..
This is all in regards to single player offline...If you're looking for online, ultrapack would be the way to go...it is co-op missions, mainly populated by 20 guys on Sundays...so with regard to online play, AH by miles. Haven't tried il-2 GB though.
I think I'm going to do the Ultrapack.
I want to do some testing first with the vanilla just so I get a feel of what the pack changes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 20, 2024, 11:11:23 AM
All the games being spoken about I have owned; DCS, IL2-1946, AH, IL2-BoX/GB. DCS is my least favorite and furthest from my real life experience, with AH the closest, IL2-BoX was next then IL2-1946. 1946 has some querks but tones of variety.
Interesting. You are the first person I have run across that has that opinion. What does AH do that is closer to real life experience?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 11:33:40 AM
As I have been chatting up AH on Reddit recently the sub model is the one thing that stops people. I try to explain that the value you get for that is better than spending the same money to buy new IL2 games or a few planes each year. I know in the end one day you own it all and with AH you do not but I don’t plan to take my cartoon airplanes with me when I go lol.
I’m still out there talking it up anyway.
The problem is, respectfully, it doesn't matter what you think. Or me. Or any of the old farts already here.
What matters is what your prospective customer thinks. I think what they are seeing is a subscription as much as their netflix for a game that hasn't been materially updated in 6-7? years? Hasn't seen a new plane in 15? years?
Imagine if Netflix stopped getting new movies and new shows for years and years. No new content. No new Original Series? They could truthfully say, look at all these shows we already have in the archive. You can just watch those over again. Do you think that would hurt their ability to get subscriptions?
A subscription is sellable to get access to constant new content development like the old days of AH or like some MMO. Its a hard sell just to play a game that is not updated in years other than some player content.
They expect that situation to just cost a couple of bucks out of the bargain bin, like I bought 1946. And then they expect to just own it and not pay endless rent. Shrug. I'm glad to be proven me wrong if you can generate some new customers.
I didn't have many arguments against that. The .50 a day thing is not a compelling argument. The only valid arguments is even in it's current state is still regularly gets 100+ players in one arena most nights. That is not something they have seen in IL2. And I made an argument that the historical scenarios are probably an experience they can not currently get in any of the other sims.
He will probably at least give it two weeks, maybe 1 month. I'll give 1946 about that same amount of time next month. It will be interesting to compare our notes.
I warned him I had no intention of converting. I think DCS meets my current needs best for a variety of reasons, but I wanted to fill my knowledge gap on that one so I have a complete comparison of the various options. If for no other reason so I can explain why DCS is better, IMHO, than 1946. Or GB for that matter.
But the remaining player count (he did seem to react well to that) and scenarios did seem to make him interested enough to go download. I have no idea if he would ever switch. Mainly because of what his initial reaction to the sub. That is definitely going to make selling him an uphill effort. But he wanted to try AH for the same reason I am willing to try 1946. To at least be able to discuss the various competitors intelligently.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 20, 2024, 11:36:07 AM
Player count is usually the second question I get. Most respond favorably to my answer.
Someone got mad at me because I called AH a “war game” and apparently it is not haha. It is though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 11:39:46 AM
"Survey" and "Study" sims became a popular way to describe sims decades ago. Still works today.
Yeah that's good.
It also explains a lot of the confusion people have about DCS. It is a complete different animal that IL2 or AH. Much more of a study sim.
Or like Enigma said, DCS is making digital museum replica's of historic aircraft. That's why the go so crazy on tiny minute details. When the real copies of those planes are no longer around, their digital representation will be the closest thing possible to learn what the real machine was like. That's more important to them currently than filling an arena with moderate fidelity airframes (they already said no more FC3 moderate fidelity modules). They are striving for a different goal.
The way I explain it to myself, is DCS is a producer of high'ish fidelity simulators to various militaries for training. They also sell a scrubbed version to the civilian hobby market on the side.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 20, 2024, 11:59:33 AM
You are quite right about devotion. My devotion to AH was the biggest factor to overcome. I had purchased high end HOTAS and VR equipment and felt "forced" to check out the other competing genre programs due to the state of AH. It was a do-or-die moment for my interest in this hobby, so I purchased MSFS 2020, IL-2, and DCS (at the urging of fellow AH squadmates). I decided I would devote a majority of my hobby time to each program for one month. Either I found a home or would sell my flight sim equipment and walk away from the hobby.
My experience with DCS is mirrored by several of the AH squadmates, but we all come at this hobby from different perspectives. I really enjoy this thread. Hearing what other players, with AH as the baseline experience, think is enlightening. I do still hope that HT will post some news and revitalize AH. I take encouragement that the player numbers are occasionally ticking upward.
I do apologize if my posts seem like a sales pitch sometimes. It is not my intention, but rather to share my experience and encourage others to keep an open mind to try out the current "state of the art" sims. I would really like to see IL-2 and MSFS 2020 provide a free trial, like AH and DCS, so flight sim enthusiasts can make an informed comparison.
Naw you’re good. We all know who the guilty are. Tar and feathers. They use a very passive aggressive play on words of double talk to grab ears. Its systematic between the 3-4. They just did it., to bury reason in carpet bombing the thread. Its a group effort. When one can be predicted ya git em nailed. They think they know everything about everything, they have a very simplex view of marketing. Its a bait and switch wording. Just sit back and watch these two. It will make sense. These two ARE THE problem. You’re not that. They will use this tgread as a catapult. They will attack me next to shadow me credibility. Just watch. We want them gone.
Pretty sure they JO together over this thread.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 12:04:03 PM
60 yr old Headless Horseman has the maturity of a 15 yr old, why he holds hand in this mission with young Spinning Sparrow. But low-life invaders. Who are convinced they have a clue. A10yr old csn figure out what they think is mass intelligence. And they have their shinny hook in Little Bear, not knowing they are convincing him to jump off the cliff to give up numbers. Its a part of player skimming. They have him working against his own best interest. Just keep burying their post. They really don’t have many friends here because we all caught on they are out to destroy AH for refugee migration, not sn honest bone in their whole body. We all know that now.
Take note: they refuse to admit despite their efforts we brought numbers up. They avoud that fact like the black plague. Poor. Little Beat, convinced to eat his own feet.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 12:15:01 PM
As I have been chatting up AH on Reddit recently the sub model is the one thing that stops people. I try to explain that the value you get for that is better than spending the same money to buy new IL2 games or a few planes each year. I know in the end one day you own it all and with AH you do not but I don’t plan to take my cartoon airplanes with me when I go lol.
I’m still out there talking it up anyway.
He did smile at my secret fantasy (well, one of them :D) of HTC and 1C merging.
IMHO, there are too many half-dead zombie companies Balkanizing an already small WWII fan base. Few of them are thriving but too many just won't go away and release the players they are wasting. The industry needs some creative destruction to clarify the field and free up resources. There needs to be some consolidation to make the market more efficient.
In my fantasy HTC would bring the server and net code tech (which IMHO is clearly superior to what both IL2 and DCS have at the moment), and IL2 would bring a prettier client, touch higher fidelity, with full SP mission\campaign capability, and better experience at marketing, and combine their two populations into one sim that could thrive instead of two sims on survival rations.
Maybe that is a way for HT to cash out and retire as a part time CTO\consultant. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 20, 2024, 12:17:38 PM
Here was one answer I got… “ It's a sub genre of strategy games that places extra emphases on realism and/or immersion. Classical variant is something like a hex turn based game like War in the East. Even RTS games like Company of Heroes or Warno aren't war games, just tactical RTS, but the community sometimes accepts them as a "gateway drug" to the genre. A combat flight sim is definitely not a wargame”
I was like ummmmm what??? I was satisfied with my response! “ Well for me nothing "places an extra emphasis on realism and/or immersion" more than flight sim. Especially ones like Aces High and IL2 that put a strict focus on historical realism.
To each their own I suppose.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 12:48:43 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 20, 2024, 12:51:46 PM
Here was one answer I got… “ It's a sub genre of strategy games that places extra emphases on realism and/or immersion. Classical variant is something like a hex turn based game like War in the East. Even RTS games like Company of Heroes or Warno aren't war games, just tactical RTS, but the community sometimes accepts them as a "gateway drug" to the genre. A combat flight sim is definitely not a wargame”
I was like ummmmm what??? I was satisfied with my response! “ Well for me nothing "places an extra emphasis on realism and/or immersion" more than flight sim. Especially ones like Aces High and IL2 that put a strict focus on historical realism.
To each their own I suppose.
He is clearly wrong. It's not not just a combat flight sim. The MA consists of 3 sides on a world map where you have to capture bases to win the ultimate war. Guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. This is more of a war game than any other flight sim or FPS game I've ever played. No idea what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 20, 2024, 01:05:55 PM
He is clearly wrong. It's not not just a combat flight sim. The MA consists of 3 sides on a world map where you have to capture bases to win the ultimate war. Guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. This is more of a war game than any other flight sim or FPS game I've ever played. No idea what he's talking about.
That’s pretty much what I said before that comment where I described how the MA works a bit. I thought using his definition to prove my point would be enough lol.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: oboe on January 20, 2024, 01:12:54 PM
Have you guys seen this?
Surprised me to see such dated-looking graphics from very small dev teams being recommended in 2024. I thought their time had passed. If not, I think they missed a gem.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 20, 2024, 01:44:00 PM
I saw that YouTube and was also disappointed AH was not listed. Not the first time AH has been overlooked. I think it may be because of the unusually low rating it got in Steam.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 20, 2024, 01:44:32 PM
I think the inability of using external views in a fighter is a negative to many
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 02:44:41 PM
I saw that YouTube and was also disappointed AH was not listed. Not the first time AH has been overlooked. I think it may be because of the unusually low rating it got in Steam.
We found out that was also a group effort by a guy's name that started with L. They did that on purpose, disgruntled players for another reason. He's been permabanned for that antic,.. and guess who knows him and is doing the same thing? Spinning Sparrow. It's all about getting players to migrate to their game... same thing happening in this thread you started with honesty. It's about to go south. But we got the cognitive stuff out prior. Hope to see you flying here again, the numbers ARE going up despite the sabotage of trick wording by the few. Cognitive is about to leave.
be well, fly soon. <S>
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 20, 2024, 03:12:06 PM
Interesting. You are the first person I have run across that has that opinion. What does AH do that is closer to real life experience?
Once you get an light aircraft above say 3500 feet and out of the way of any thermals or winds they just sync in feel and responsiveness.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 20, 2024, 06:23:59 PM
I agree about the 3500+ alt. I owned and flew a C-150 for 16 years. It was the smooth air/lack of crosswinds on takeoff and landings in AH that kept breaking the immersion for me. Interesting our different takes on the same subject. :salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 06:32:03 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2024, 06:52:23 PM
We have received the message from the king enterprise of universal knowledge. Embrace doom and gloom my lil dragonflies, and rejoice in our new founded leader of despair, for only he can save us.. Follow us off the cliff, the flute beckons you. Burn your house when you leave.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 21, 2024, 03:50:11 AM
I agree about the 3500+ alt. I owned and flew a C-150 for 16 years. It was the smooth air/lack of crosswinds on takeoff and landings in AH that kept breaking the immersion for me. Interesting our different takes on the same subject. :salute
I think I have a thread in the wishlist asking for those :rock
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 21, 2024, 05:00:13 AM
That's the one positive I like about you; you have great taste in music. :rock
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2024, 08:41:58 AM
Weather is no small factor in any flight operations. Nothing wrong with flying/fighting in ideal conditions but you may want to try some adverse conditions once in a while.
https://youtu.be/4jAJXArqfsM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 21, 2024, 08:44:40 AM
Weather is no small factor in any flight operations. Nothing wrong with flying/fighting in ideal conditions but you may want to try some adverse conditions once in a while.
https://youtu.be/4jAJXArqfsM
Heck they whine when night falls...
I would think the 2nd time bad weather was on a map the whining would begin..
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 21, 2024, 08:46:58 AM
The one thing I love about the weather is the added challenge.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2024, 08:54:43 AM
Wake turbulence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82Q3kd4v3bw
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 21, 2024, 09:22:54 AM
All the chatting we did yesterday made me want to log in and fly around 2-3PM est. I do not usually play outside the night time and lately it’s only been a couple hours or less.
Only flew one sortie but there was a glaring difference I immediately noticed. The tone of the Rook country chat was nothing like it usually is later in the evening. If I was a newly joined casual onlooker dipping my toes in the water it would for sure have made me think twice.
Not sure if this was a one off for that time or normal and I am not putting names on blast to further the cheese but… some of you need to take a break from the game or typing once and a while. Give it a try.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 21, 2024, 09:35:24 AM
The one thing I love about the weather is the added challenge.
One of the Pony missions I flew on a solo campaign seemed simple enough. A solo JU-88 picked up by radar inbound low level. Jump into the aircraft to find low ceilings, fog, and high crosswinds. With some effort and vectors from ground control I got the JU-88. Using my kneeboard I got back to the field and the landing was tricky to say the least. Had me squeezing the black out of the joystick, but on shut down I felt a real sense of accomplishment.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2024, 10:34:02 AM
Yes, but you have to be very, very careful with that or you will end up with an FPS of 2.
Right now it is a mission level option. Fine if you are making a small mission with just 1-4 jets and a tanker for training.
If you have a 80 bomber formation and wake turbulence, your next frame will rendered sometime around 2042 and the image will be sent to you by registered mail. ;)
They really should make that splitable. Have a default mission setting and be able to turn it on\off for specific units to override the mission setting.
So have it off by default, but maybe turn it on just for the tanker because there the simulation would be limited and worth a few FPS.
IMHO.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2024, 11:14:05 AM
MT may have improved the performance of that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2024, 12:02:23 PM
Am I missing something? Not sure I'm seeing any difference between wake turbulence on/off. Anecdotal, I joined the aero club at Grissom AFB in early '80's and took some lessons towards a private pilot license (which I never got). We took off too close behind a loaded KC-135 once and dropped like a rock when we hit a wing vortice. Instructor grabbed and yanked the controls. Scared him pretty bad. He apologized for letting me take off too close.
https://youtu.be/ZTbDeLn6oME
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2024, 12:13:38 PM
Maybe. Some probably. I don't know by how much. They are mere breakings things into to big chunks like sound, physics, graphics, network threads. I don't think they are doing plane by plane threads. It's not that fine grained. And if I have a big arena and some little AI cargo plane is landing delivering supplies off at some base with few around, is it really worth it for it to be calculating complex fluid dynamics for a wake turbulence. If I have a tanker that players are going to regularly line up behind to gas up, then it is worth it there. It's expensive so should be spent where it buys the most improvement in user experience, not waste cpu cycles on unneeded complexity everywhere in places that no one will notice.
Threads, like everything in life is a trade-off not a panacea. More threads mean more cross-thread communication and more complicated thread synchronization overhead.
Multi-threading synchronization is tricky. Really tricky. So there is definitely a curve of diminishing return on complexity. Don't do it right and your multi-threading ends up no faster than single with a lot more risk. Or you end up with dead-lock conditions. Or you just end up with bizarro bugs that are near impossible to track down or reproduce reliably. Which means they are hard as heck to debug and you can't really be sure if you fixed something or if the very specific set of conditions just hasn't aligned to cause it again...yet.
They had an have some bugs from the conversion, but actually I am very impressed they have had as few as they have. Really hard to retro fit threading into something that wasn't designed to work that way from the beginning. But hind sight is always 20\20. ;)
I watched one project I was on pretty much get destroyed by retro fitting in threading and going way to overboard with the granularity. They did the initial conversion in about 6 months and spent the next 3 years try to stramp out all the crazy, random bugs that may not happened for days and suddenly for no apparent reason, suddenly start up. They still didn't have it fully stabilized by the time I told them "Good luck with ALL that" and moved on. ;)
Next they need to do the server. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2024, 12:18:12 PM
Am I missing something? Not sure I'm seeing any difference between wake turbulence on/off. Anecdotal, I joined the aero club at Grissom AFB in early '80's and took some lessons towards a private pilot license (which I never got). We took off too close behind a loaded KC-135 once and dropped like a rock when we hit a wing vortice. Instructor grabbed and yanked the controls. Scared him pretty bad. He apologized for letting me take off too close.
https://youtu.be/ZTbDeLn6oME
That's interesting.
Try putting a jet close behind each in trail. Maybe you don't take a hit until something is in the space volume the turbulence would effect. That would be smart.
A saw a video by Reflected, a guy who makes a lot of the WWII campaigns, and that was a warning he had. Maybe it was much worse pre-MT.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2024, 12:21:12 PM
Funny, I was just wondering that also. Kinda like a quantum effect. ;)
I'll test.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2024, 12:46:31 PM
That's the one positive I like about you; you have great taste in music. :rock
I worked a on-off on the BS reunion tour, but not in monitors.
There are a lot of positive things about me. Stomping on my face on bbs is not going to make them apparent. One can have the nice wolf, or mean wolf, which you feed is which one you get. I’m a mirror. Do the right thing, cause no harm, live and let live, is really not too much to ask for.
It’s not a brag. I’ve been hidden on stage with some of the best artist in the world. I hold ultimate power in how that show will go. Promoters, record companies, agents weight me with making that show go smooth and keep the paid artist in line to ensure their investment is worthy. They are planning the next tour, or not. As soon as that inflated ego comes out in temper tantrums, I hold the power to slap them with feed back to bring them back in line, real quick. And they will all stand behind me to make sure I do my job. We are both paid to do a good show. I control the stage, not the artist. This is real world of the industry. I don’t care if the artist gets angry, I’m with someone bigger than them tomorrow. I do what I’m paid to do. Go ahead, piss off the monitor engineer. 99% of the shows go well. I have the hardest job snd hold the most power in a concert production during the show. We have low tolerance for nonsense. i have sharp teeth. Most times, we become friends who do a great show together, sometimes we become like family. We respect each others role. Sometimes we have pre-show meals together. Ya know what me and Styx talked about? “My gutters are clogged I need time to fix that,…i haven’t mowed the lawn in 1.5 weeks, my daughter is in s play next week…., Peter Paul and Mary hand made my dinner from scratch for me. I didn’t care for it, but smiled because the thought of it. I refused to work with Steven Tylor..
Ego = amateur mentality Professional = be on good terms with all people. Attitude = everything
Failure on last two, you’ll be black listed and go back to bar bands and small local fests, or worse, not at all.
My point, you have some good video skills, don’t let ego be a lead weight on your ars. Your milage will sharply vary. Compromise is a sought out art.
Unfortunately my reactions is what I’ve been conditioned to be. I try hard to let that go.
What I love about this stuff, I can be nobody. There’s always greater and lessor. Here, I’m at the bottom of the ladder. I have no responsibility. I’d rather have a drink with common Joe than with most artist, keeps my feet grounded. What did I do after concerts? Not party. I went fishing on my 80 acre river property to wash it all down the drain.
When some realize what I’m conveying is when their tech skills will move in the right direction. If one takes it as a brag, they lost the point.
Anyone can make a popular game great. Small fish, big ocean. You want some real challenge and higher notoriety? Make this game rocket, not rip it down. Make this rocket, you can make anything rocket. Big fish, small pond. I made crap bands look good, that's when the big boys started calling.
Helping keep AW alive was not easy, same applies here. If someone wants to work against my good hearted efforts, we will prolly be at war. I can eat bark too. One won’t make friends trying to steal their Girlfriend.
Remove ego and we could use your skills. Keep ego and we can do without. I make crappy videos myself because I’d rather do that than deal with ego for a great video. Big fish, small minnow, who do you want to be?
I’m sure you’ll rebuke this, I’m sure someone will convince you to. No matter what choice anyone makes, there is no “I” in the word “team”. Its a good learning experience.
Maybe my goals are set too high, but if numbers come up again, we may get a vulken update. 1000s would live to see that. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
- Animl, the village idiot.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 21, 2024, 01:17:00 PM
One won’t make friends trying to steal their Girlfriend.
Not that I consider my films as my girlfriend, but this statement suggests you understand why a number of us jumped on you taking our footage. So, with that said maybe you could stop chasing around after me with flamebait everywhere. I'm not your enemy, you're your own worst enemy. I say this because it should be evident that I wouldn't spend so much time and effort trying to get my AH films right if I wanted to tear AH down;
Quote
Make this game rocket, not rip it down
This film of mine has more than 20 hours into it
And this IL2 film 2 hours
:salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 21, 2024, 05:58:03 PM
Not that I consider my films as my girlfriend, but this statement suggests you understand why a number of us jumped on you taking our footage. So, with that said maybe you could stop chasing around after me with flamebait everywhere. I'm not your enemy, you're your own worst enemy. I say this because it should be evident that I wouldn't spend so much time and effort trying to get my AH films right if I wanted to tear AH down;
This film of mine has more than 20 hours into it
And this IL2 film 2 hours
:salute
Look, that was a 10 min incident that lasted on for 15 pages of bashing me after I said Oh, ok sorry, I removed it. You both continued to attack me on a ton of post, dragging 10-15 page needless dramas. You held on to that much longer than normal human nature. I dind't chase you, I bit back because you two wouldn't leave it lay, attacked every vid I made.... so I started give you both a taste of your own meds. You have some of this very backwards and the proof are in the post and 100 witnesses who begged you to stop for 10 pages And then both of you attacked my return after 14 yr post. You both made a project out of it and I returned fire with a flamethrower. the truth is that simple. No one has to take my word for anything, all they have to do is read the post. And then you took it upon yourself to contact HT and ream him for taking me on to handle ads, while that had never taken place. There was no agreement between me and HT. You're trying to excuse your behavior when it's all clear in black and white.
That said,... that was an 8 yr old video, 20LCADolby10 Productions, that's what happens when a Production company name is the PART of a player name. I had NO IDEA WHO to ask and I stated so in your very first response to the post. You both went way overboard AFTER the fact and to this day.. I encourage you to re-read those post and get it straight. Because if I drag them out, neither of you will look good.
It's rather impossible to say you don't bash the game, the evidence is everywhere, it's not my first BBQ. I'm not new to human life.
I'm going to say this to both of you, or all 3. You both read my return post, because you bashed me in it, therefore you read what I had been through that kept me away. Now, there's nothing you could ever say to me nor do to me that will ever hit that bar,.. HOWEVER, knowing the story you two took it upon yourself to beat down someone who lived a hell you could never handle. You constantly kick someone in the balls who was down and out, thats as punk as a punk gets, and that alone, standing by itself, makes me so sick that anyone would do that to anyone in that situation. You don't know what happened, but you 3 now, went so low in life that you labeled me as a sexual predictor IN PUBLIC, one of those got my son, he's no longer with us. And for that sick ill trait alone, I will slam the sledge hammer as hard as I possibly can, with zero remorse and I do care about collateral damage.. I lost no sleep. Over a video? DUDE,... you 3 seriously need to get a grip on yourselves. After that, I don't give 3 flyin rats arses what I did or didn't do..is is now irrelevent to me.. we are at nuclear war. YET, here i am taking time of my life, after all the sht storm to try to make sense to you. I never had any reason ever again to be nice in any way what so ever, ever again. But I did... it's not deserved. it was not earned, I just happen to be a decent person who TRIES to forgive much more then I should. I still have a lot of pedal left, and 3 more gears. Evidently you lost the point I tried to make.
I am not my worst enemy by a long stretch. You placed yourselves there, very willingly. Be done, or not. You 3 have a choice where you'd like to stand with me. But I am not taking your blame.
Had we ever met in person after that, you would have a life changing experience, never forgotten. I don't have to be nice.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 21, 2024, 10:36:05 PM
I dind't chase you, I bit back because you two wouldn't leave it lay, attacked every vid I made....
I literally left your latest alone, I still haven't written anything in your 48hr test film thread keeping my comments (however positive) to myself
Quote
You're trying to excuse your behavior when it's all clear in black and white.
No, you claim to want no more drama. An Olive branch and a chance to come good on your word.
Quote
It's rather impossible to say you don't bash the game, the evidence is everywhere, it's not my first BBQ. I'm not new to human life.
Provide that evidence; links and dates
Quote
A tonne of bile and I am not my worst enemy by a long stretch. .... Be done, or not. .
You are you're own worst enemy, because and I am trying to be done, but you wont stop despite the opportunity. When I had been done, you chased after me to YouTube filling the comments with abuse, very probably because you hadn't got any interaction from me in your 48hr test film thread.
Do yourself a favour, rather than respond with a post that pulls in every direction, at the very least place me on your ignore list to prevent yourself from temptation.
:salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 22, 2024, 12:02:36 AM
Forget it.
The sack of dung isn't worth my time.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 22, 2024, 08:13:46 AM
So the IL-2 creative team seems to have confirmed that they are looking at WWII PTO for the project after next. That means DCS, IL-2, and Combat Pilot are all heading in that direction. Now if I could just get my high fidelity A6M5 :joystick:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 22, 2024, 09:32:22 AM
Zeke in IL-2 not high fidelity?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on January 22, 2024, 09:54:32 AM
There's no Zero in IL2 at all. No PTO as yet. Looks like it'll be a race by multiple sims getting to that in a few year's time. Hey, as long as there's a P-38 - - I'm in!
Korea? Meh. Was a bit disappointed TBH.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 22, 2024, 10:14:42 AM
Ah. None in DCS either. ED painted a 190 to look like a Zero in one of their promotional videos a few years ago.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on January 22, 2024, 10:43:53 AM
So the IL-2 creative team seems to have confirmed that they are looking at WWII PTO for the project after next. That means DCS, IL-2, and Combat Pilot are all heading in that direction. Now if I could just get my high fidelity A6M5 :joystick:
It's a horse race.
Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 22, 2024, 11:43:18 AM
Here you go:
https://youtu.be/xzR14LuCrRY?si=-mFStp2XKDYve0Nd
Also some updated images of the F4F and A6M from Combat Pilot:
Dantoo did that for us for one of the BoB scenarios. He was simulating "Top Hat" i.e. Biggin Hill controller. It was an awesome experience. Though a hawt English chick would have been better. ;)
Just enough info to put combat together without the easy-mode plane icons with directions.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 22, 2024, 12:58:59 PM
Here is a summary of the Q&A: https://stormbirds.blog/2024/01/21/il-2-developers-answer-community-questions-a-summary/
Nice. I missed that.
So not the next project, but the project after the next one.
That might take a while. That will definitely put them in a horse race with CP. Probably about that same timeline.
But then again, DCS may take twice a long as that. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 22, 2024, 01:38:43 PM
Keep in mind this is NOT the Microprose of old. Just some rando bought the name and rights. I haven't really seen anything out of them that looks interesting. It's not like Sid Mier is coming out of retirement. :cool:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 22, 2024, 03:48:49 PM
Keep in mind this is NOT the Microprose of old. Just some rando bought the name and rights. I haven't really seen anything out of them that looks interesting. It's not like Sid Mier is coming out of retirement. :cool:
Those graphics look like the original.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 22, 2024, 03:53:59 PM
The name fools people, but it's not the same company.
It would be like calling modern day Italians, Romans. Hmmmm not quite. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on January 23, 2024, 04:17:02 AM
What sets AH apart from all the other sims is that I dream about it at night. But then, having spent >20,000 hours on a single game inevitably takes a toll on your mental health... :x
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 23, 2024, 11:20:03 AM
What sets AH apart from all the other sims is that I dream about it at night. But then, having spent >20,000 hours on a single game inevitably takes a toll on your mental health... :x
Any video game will do that if you play enough.
I used to have dreams about certain Battlefield 4 maps. Unless it was Operation Locker map, and that was more of a nightmare.
;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 24, 2024, 09:35:37 AM
What sets AH apart from all the other sims is that I dream about it at night. But then, having spent >20,000 hours on a single game inevitably takes a toll on your mental health... :x
Used to have dreams about AH. Switched to DCS and the dreams of air to air refueling and carrier night landings came along. Nice to have passion for your hobbies :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 24, 2024, 09:54:03 AM
You guys dream about video games?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
:D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 24, 2024, 10:30:01 AM
Was it SOP to have the fore deck loaded with planes when they were trying to land on a cv or is this just an oversight from Hollywood?
Eagler
I think it was. I watched a couple documentaries on WWII carrier ops and they show the fore deck loaded. That might be when recovering multiple aircraft, since movement to the elevators would be even more in the way.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 26, 2024, 09:25:41 AM
Amazing how far computer sims have come. I enjoyed the low level missions in this one back in '93. I'll definitely be picking up the Tornado module.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzpd4lbfOo0
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 27, 2024, 02:13:54 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 28, 2024, 07:56:26 AM
This video gives one an idea of where flight sims are now and you can compare the Spit9 in DCS vs. IL-2 and AH. Like that it shows the effects wake turbulence can have on a gun solution.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 28, 2024, 03:04:42 PM
Simple binary question. Imagination required.
IF, the graphics in DCS, IL-2 and AH, were equally the same. Which one would you play most?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 28, 2024, 03:16:20 PM
This is an attempt to move a discussion on the current state of AH vs. other aerial combat sims to a more appropriate forum.
I still hope that HiTech will come out of semi-retirement and update AH, but it has been about 10 years since the last significant update. This is not a slam on HT, the man has earned his retirement and I sincerely hope his quality of life continues to improve. This discussion is also not intended to offend other AH players, but rather to share as consumers, what our experiences have been with our favorite hobby.
I played AH for 20 years and before that followed HiTech over from AirWarrior. I have made many friends in AH and still keep in contact with my squadmates here.
For me personally, I decided to try out DCS and IL-2 due to dwindling numbers, a lack of "fighter pilot aggressiveness" in the MA, and stale game play.
Despite its age, AH still has several features I wish other sims would incorporate. Namely a good PTO plane-set and multiplayer buffs.
Comparing DCS multiplayer (WWII only) vs. AH, I have found DCS has better flight modelling, a better damage model, better graphics, better weather/clouds, and more realistic voice comms. The increase in fidelity has renewed my passion for aerial combat. I have a new found appreciation for WWII pilots who not only had to fight the enemy, but also keep the weather and their own aircraft from killing them.
I have found the DCS community to be very helpful to newbies and there is a plethora of manuals and YouTube tutorials to help the learning curve. One thing I did not expect from the community was the number of real life current and retired combat pilots that play the sim and share their training. The PVP, PVE, and solo playablilty is also robust, so I have more freedom to play when and how I want.
What are your experiences with other aerial combat sims vs. AH?
AW had real WWII pilots playing. Earl was very helpful sharing his knowledge as s test pilot, who flew a lot of what AW had. There were quite a few actual private and military pilots. Some are still in AH.
There are basically 5 FM designs. Not all AC in DCS are on the same FM. Depending on the time era and the AC creator.
>IMO< I think many who play strictly DCS or IL, would have a hard time competing against many AH players. They are put through extremes daily. Many of the best combat sim pilots come from AW and AH. Hence, player skimming for talent.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 28, 2024, 04:53:55 PM
If all I cared about was graphics I'd play War Thunder.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 28, 2024, 06:21:25 PM
If all I cared about was graphics I'd play War Thunder.
Didn’t consider that, because they are steering to ground wars. In fact a new ad mentions tanks 1st, AC second. A lot of players unhappy with their new direction, which includes emptying pockets. Personally, I just know what I read, I don’t play anything else.
But that wasn’t the question. If graphics are all the same, which would you play? Its down to actual game play. Just curious, I have no comeback for answers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on January 28, 2024, 09:06:58 PM
>IMO< I think many who play strictly DCS or IL, would have a hard time competing against many AH players. They are put through extremes daily.
Really? not one aces high player has to do aircraft systems management. 98% of AH players inside the first week would seize the engine up almost every flight.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 28, 2024, 09:56:17 PM
Really? not one aces high player has to do aircraft systems management. 98% of AH players inside the first week would seize the engine up almost every flight.
LOL!! who really cares about engine management? Do you play a fighter game, or an engine management game?
I have always played AW, and Warbirds, and AH to FIGHT other players in the air. The war aspect is an added plus, but for all the time Ive played it was to pit my puny skills against other players.
If you want to flip switches, monitor gauges, temps, pressures INSTEAD of flying against live opponents..... well get yourself a box game and play with yourself.
At least here we still have players to fight.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 29, 2024, 03:18:43 AM
Engine management has little bearing on the fight. Switching between AH and IL2 is pretty seamless. It's become more flavor, at least to me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 29, 2024, 07:44:04 AM
Eye candy being equal across AH, DCS, and IL-2, I would choose DCS. The more accurate flight model, damage model, weather, and wake turbulence, really show the simplicity of AH and IL-2. These items are real concerns in aerial combat and if you are going to ignore/simplify them then you might as well play a space combat game. It is similar to comparing a console racing game to a PC racing sim.
Many prefer this simplicity or are intimidated to learn the complexities of aerial combat. These complexities were mastered by others 80 years ago, so they are certainly not insurmountable. We all are here for entertainment, so to each their own.
Next question: If the multi-player aspect was the same (fighters only) in AH, DCS, and IL-2, which would you choose?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 29, 2024, 07:51:39 AM
Really? not one aces high player has to do aircraft systems management. 98% of AH players inside the first week would seize the engine up almost every flight.
I have and I still do...
Somewhere in between the complexity of those games and the simplicity of AH...like wep in AH now, full blast/ 100 % all out should be limited to so many minutes with performance suffering somewhat after that time expires..
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 29, 2024, 09:14:14 AM
It's really not a competition. You want a familiar and easy to access arena for a brief time or an evening you can find it in AH. I'm certainly not trying to pull anyone away from it. I'm as interested in the progression of technology as I am in using it. Wanting to share that with those I have a common history with is a natural thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 29, 2024, 09:24:01 AM
It's really not a competition. You want a familiar and easy to access arena for a brief time or an evening you can find it in AH. I'm certainly not trying to pull anyone away from it. I'm as interested in the progression of technology as I am in using it. Wanting to share that with those I have a common history with is a natural thing.
Agreed! That is what this thread is about. Comparison of different games within a genre we are all familiar with.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 29, 2024, 09:37:49 AM
As a kid I was fascinated by both WWI and WWII aircraft but WWI more. No radios or radio navigation then. You took off and went hunting, freedom. Today the skies are far more controlled. Even, maybe especially, over the battlefield. You'd better be where and when you're supposed to be the entire flight. That's challenging all by itself.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 29, 2024, 10:10:26 AM
Really? not one aces high player has to do aircraft systems management. 98% of AH players inside the first week would seize the engine up almost every flight.
1) Fugitive (and others) and I are on the same page on several issues, I’m not going to reinvent the wheel on what he posted. That said, personal preference cannot be challenged.
My personal preference is adrenaline flow. It fits with my job. If the hair on my arms isn’t standing up, I didn’t get there. And my response to the lighting people is, no one goes home humming the light show. If the sound isn’t right, the light show has no real effect. They work hand in hand to achieve one goal, adrenaline.
When I was in AW a GF bought me MS Flight sim 98. For the time it had all the bells and whistles AW didn’t have. Ya, I flew a 747, cool, But that was it, no combat, no adrenaline flow. It gathered dust.
You sir, are here to attempt to change personal preference without the whole subject. It is You can’t seem to extend on your comments past graphics and engine management. It’s a thin razor slice of a combat flight simulator. All you talk about is the light show, the word combat is avoided. No band, no sound. You seem to hum the light show.
2) Combat Flight Simulator, the first word in the term. I’m prolly the last one who should ask this,…How many kills have you gotten in DCS in the last year of another human pilot?
My personal preference, is the first word combat. No combat, no adrenaline flow. I see DCS as a Flight Simulator with Combat. DCS is a sim, AH is a sim played as a game, it has a direction. Combat was always the draw. I need the whole picture or I’m just eating cookies with no milk. If you had the whole picture, you would not be here with cute one-liners with no substance trying to skim players. You seem to be a one track train with no destination. My suggestion to you is, if the power of suggestion doesn’t work nothing will. Ya end up looking the pest who sells nothing. You’re like a uninvited party crasher who shows up drunk complaining about the music played.
You speak of engine management, but never about combat. You’re speaking to an audience who prefers combat. If that’s what you like cool, you should do that. But don’t come in here crapping in the yard thinking you’re crafty. These players mop the floor with those who only crave graphics and engine management. They couldn’t handle it. You know this is true or you wouldn’t be trying to recruit them. You’re trying to replace what it doesn’t seem to have. You’re trying to fill a hole. You’re like a used car salesman who won’t let the buyer look under the hood. You sell nothing. If all there is engine management, you’re eating dry cookies craving our milk.
While I totally get what Dolby said he’s getting his graphics fix in IL, but getting adrenaline flow here, plus he has friends here too.
I will set aside personal preferences and say this,… >IF< (massive word) HT were to update AH with something like Vulken your game is going take a hit. Because, once that is done, the FX can be duplicated of whats in other sims. And then it comes down to one thing, game play. AH will walk over them because it has the main element. Large arena multiplayer game play. Why do I say this? Because everywhere I read, this is what all those who left crave. Even you. HT is a monster coder who can do the work of 5. All he needs is the will. IF he did that, the elation would be deafening.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 29, 2024, 10:24:15 AM
Agreed! That is what this thread is about. Comparison of different games within a genre we are all familiar with.
I get this. I’m not harassing you about it. Lets just keep it contained and not all over the bbs in every thread. Which you seem to be doing, a single thread.
I’m nobody, I just have my own opinions and preferences. I inly try to help bring numbers up, and we have had some success. I just ask that it doesn’t impede our own efforts. <S>
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: oboe on January 29, 2024, 10:47:52 AM
I don't feel the need to pick just one. I like all three; each has appeal for different reasons. AH for pure online play with 100s of different planes and vehicles, multiple skins for each, multi-engine bombers, easy access to combat and a great sense of community when in the game. Plenty of adrenalin flows during combat in scenarios.
DCS for ultra-realism. Kneeboard checklist just to start the engine, flipping the switches and knobs myself. The server "Georgia at War" (?) featured air traffic controllers and you had to request taxi instructions and then check the airport layout map to know where the labelled taxiways were. It was an absolute kick, and I got plenty of adrenalin jolt out just starting up, taxiing, and taking off. The first time I played, in VR, it took me 30 minutes to start my F-5E's engines and taxi around the perimeter of the airport; afterward I was wiped and soaked with sweat. It just felt so real, and I felt like many of the other players were actual military or RL pilots.
IL-2 is great balance between the two. Many more aircraft to fly than DCS, but not not nearly as much as AH. Good engine management required; you can't just hit 'E' and firewall the throttle the whole flight. First rate graphics and sounds, the first time I climbed through the clouds and saw the condensation streamers form on my canopy I think I cried real tears. And dead reckoning navigation by using landmarks like lakes, rivers, and towns - no in game scrolling map showing where you are, and where the threats are. Between engine management, keeping track of your location, and keeping eyes open for bogeys with no icons in many (most?) servers its a big workload for a pilot to handle - much closer to what RL WWII pilots dealt with than AH. The damage model of IL-2 also impressed me. I got shot up in a P-38 one time, and I managed to make it back to a field where I crash-landed - and the nose gear collapsed, the tail went up and both booms crumpled - the crashed plane in external view looked exactly like some pictures of crumpled '38s I've seen.
I feel lucky I can play any of the three.
I used to feel AH doesn't get enough respect, but I think its really War Thunder that no one seems to respect.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 29, 2024, 12:46:40 PM
When I was in AW a GF bought me MS Flight sim 98. For the time it had all the bells and whistles AW didn’t have. Ya, I flew a 747, cool, But that was it, no combat, no adrenaline flow. It gathered dust.
Agreed. That lack of adrenaline flow is why I started looking beyond AH. I tried MSFS2020 and was bored. IL-2 gave me some of the adrenaline, but the multiplayer aspect was not there for me. For me flying with friends is a big part of the hobby, but if the fights become hit or miss (due to time of day, side imbalance, etc.) from one flying session to another, then the flying sessions become more of a chat room than anything else. Squadmates from AH convinced me to try DCS and I fly regularly with them three to six times a week. The adrenaline is back, because the fights are always there and the "state of the art" game engine adds to the sense of accomplishment.
I find it interesting that when AH came out with the more complex flight/damage/ballistics there were many players that did not want to make the switch from Warbirds. In fact even today many AH players cite the increased fidelity as a reason they do not go to WarThunder or Warbirds. I think they are right, but technology has moved on and now AH is looked at the same way by players of IL-2 and DCS.
If HiTech updated the game engine, addressed player imbalance issues, and had a viable plan for continued updating, then I would definitely check it out again. However, I would not give up DCS, if for no other reason than the historical match-ups and the fixed/rotary wing aircraft beyond WWII.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 29, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
Agreed. That lack of adrenaline flow is why I started looking beyond AH. I tried MSFS2020 and was bored. IL-2 gave me some of the adrenaline, but the multiplayer aspect was not there for me. For me flying with friends is a big part of the hobby, but if the fights become hit or miss (due to time of day, side imbalance, etc.) from one flying session to another, then the flying sessions become more of a chat room than anything else. Squadmates from AH convinced me to try DCS and I fly regularly with them three to six times a week. The adrenaline is back, because the fights are always there and the "state of the art" game engine adds to the sense of accomplishment.
I find it interesting that when AH came out with the more complex flight/damage/ballistics there were many players that did not want to make the switch from Warbirds. In fact even today many AH players cite the increased fidelity as a reason they do not go to WarThunder or Warbirds. I think they are right, but technology has moved on and now AH is looked at the same way by players of IL-2 and DCS.
If HiTech updated the game engine, addressed player imbalance issues, and had a viable plan for continued updating, then I would definitely check it out again. However, I would not give up DCS, if for no other reason than the historical match-ups and the fixed/rotary wing aircraft beyond WWII.
Do you broadcast your time in DCS, or make youtube videos? Id love to see what the action" looks like there as I have never found it. Granted I havnt spent nearly as much time there as I do here, butt in the few hours I get these days I always can find a fight.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 29, 2024, 01:46:21 PM
IL-2 is great balance between the two. Many more aircraft to fly than DCS, but not not nearly as much as AH. Good engine management required; you can't just hit 'E' and firewall the throttle the whole flight. First rate graphics and sounds, the first time I climbed through the clouds and saw the condensation streamers form on my canopy I think I cried real tears. And dead reckoning navigation by using landmarks like lakes, rivers, and towns - no in game scrolling map showing where you are, and where the threats are. Between engine management, keeping track of your location, and keeping eyes open for bogeys with no icons in many (most?) servers its a big workload for a pilot to handle - much closer to what RL WWII pilots dealt with than AH. The damage model of IL-2 also impressed me. I got shot up in a P-38 one time, and I managed to make it back to a field where I crash-landed - and the nose gear collapsed, the tail went up and both booms crumpled - the crashed plane in external view looked exactly like some pictures of crumpled '38s I've seen.
I used to feel AH doesn't get enough respect, but I think its really War Thunder that no one seems to respect.
This is the reason I've started spending some time in IL-2. Especially ultra realistic tanking lifts my pulse, as my piloting in there is very noobish still. And what comes to WT, my son tanks a lot in there and in Enlisted as well. I made myself a profile in WT. Too gamish for my taste, even there sim mode has no markers, icons or anything. It's those daily bonus tombolas etc which I don't like and controller settings are a mess for HOTAS guy. Haven't tried Enlistel.
If there's something which can be called super unrealistic games (cannot be called sims) with superb graphics, those World of Tanks, Planes and so on. Where tanks are jumping on each others, driving underwater etc. Makes me feel collective shame when watching videos of those bunglerings going on in there.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 29, 2024, 02:13:53 PM
The more accurate flight model, damage model, weather, and wake turbulence, really show the simplicity of AH and IL-2. These items are real concerns in aerial combat
My feeling, having flown air combats in SIAI-Marchetti SF.260's at Air Combat USA, is that it was highly similar to dogfights in AH.
When I flew my combats there, I did the full range of things we do in Aces High: loops, split s'es, Immelmanns, vertical persuits, high and low yo yo's, scissors, rolling scissors, lag persuit, lead moves, energy moves, angles moves, with up to 6 g's. There were some fights that ended just like in AH, where we fought to a stalemate-ish stallfight, chugging around on the hard deck with flaps out, seeing who could squeeze the last drop of turn performance out.
In terms of feel, it felt very much like P-51's in the dueling arena. Similar handling feel (in terms of roll response, pitch response, etc.). Similar way the fights went.
I didn't have to put much attention on engine control (other than pulling back some on throttle in prolonged vertical dives). Wake turbulence was not a meaningful factor in any fights.
There was one aspect of aerodynamics that did matter in these Air Combat fights that might not in AH: flow separation as you approach stall. In real life, as you pull enough g's to get near stall, you start to get flow separation off the tops of the wings. In AH, you do see this from the screen shake and buffeting noise. In the Marchettis, you got that buffeting. But in real life, drag goes up more during buffet than outside of buffet. So in the fights, it was important to pull g's only up to but not into buffet (unless you want big drag, for causing an overshoot, or something like that). In AH, we often pull right into that buffet closer to the edge of the stall. I haven't noticed higher drag in buffet than out of buffet. That doesn't mean it isn't in AH -- it would not be hugely noticeable. But if there was a difference between Air Combat and AH, I would say it is where you choose to ride the edge of g's: at edge of buffet or at edge of stall. It wouldn't change the characteristics of the fight either way. Riding the edge of buffeting is exactly the same as riding the edge of stall -- you are just picking one or the other to ride the edge of. So this one is just a very fine, picky detail.
I've read a huge number of first-person accounts of WWII air combat. Sometimes, a pilot does tell you that things done with prop pitch, mixture, throttle setting, etc. But often, those were things that a pilot did when first entering combat from a cruising configuration. Then, once in fighting configuration, they aren't doing much other than manipulating throttle as desired for combat, usually keeping it on full, less commonly chopping it to slow down. Cowl flaps were usually staying closed. Oil-cooler flaps are usually on auto or in some state that don't require manipulation during a fight. Mixture in auto rich. Prop in max rpm. Mixture and prop are fiddled with in cruise. The other various flaps are usually fiddled with in landing and takeoff.
As a result, I'm suspecting that fiddling with engine knobs isn't adding accuracy of the air-combat portion of flight.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 29, 2024, 02:19:48 PM
Can you do flat spins in AH or IL2? I never did but maybe it can be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uFfJOwb_g
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on January 29, 2024, 02:22:53 PM
Agreed. That lack of adrenaline flow is why I started looking beyond AH. I tried MSFS2020 and was bored. IL-2 gave me some of the adrenaline, but the multiplayer aspect was not there for me. For me flying with friends is a big part of the hobby, but if the fights become hit or miss (due to time of day, side imbalance, etc.) from one flying session to another, then the flying sessions become more of a chat room than anything else. Squadmates from AH convinced me to try DCS and I fly regularly with them three to six times a week. The adrenaline is back, because the fights are always there and the "state of the art" game engine adds to the sense of accomplishment.
I find it interesting that when AH came out with the more complex flight/damage/ballistics there were many players that did not want to make the switch from Warbirds. In fact even today many AH players cite the increased fidelity as a reason they do not go to WarThunder or Warbirds. I think they are right, but technology has moved on and now AH is looked at the same way by players of IL-2 and DCS.
If HiTech updated the game engine, addressed player imbalance issues, and had a viable plan for continued updating, then I would definitely check it out again. However, I would not give up DCS, if for no other reason than the historical match-ups and the fixed/rotary wing aircraft beyond WWII.
Ironically, in every review I’ve read about DCS is game play is rated from poor to bad. Great game-play is never mentioned favorably.
I played AH the other day around 3p and then at 10:30p, numbers were different, but had no problem finding fights. The biggest complaint about DCS. Being how DCS isn’t all that great for fights I might question more adrenaline than AH, or IL-2 for that matter. The only people who say this are doing so on another sim’s forums. Kinda dipping into sales here, because a lot of fights in DCS is just not true in everything I’ve read.
I find fixed-wing prop planes as a more intimate fight. You get to see your target closeup. Jets, you’re hitting targets 3 miles away with missiles/rockets. Actual god fights with jets has become much less of a dogfight using ACM. Difference between s knife fight and s sniper. Heles are pretty much ground attack vehicles.
I average 7 fights per hour in AH.
All that drivel said, I prefer American made, I’m just not going to give my money to IL-2, and their FM is questionable. I’m not going to support wallet dumping payment plans in IL-2, DCS nor WT. They are bait and switch, its free until you have to buy everything to have variety and fun. In AH you get everything fir the price of a Burger King meal, per month.
We have a guy who over-sells DCS here, but on thier forums complains about investment.
To each their own.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 29, 2024, 04:02:40 PM
you have to do all that engine management while fighting. And there is plenty of servers with people who will fight you.
I have almost zero interest in engine management. To me, its just bells and whistles. Graphics is much more the draw.
I gotta tell ya. I’ve watched some of your past videos, not one showed reason for adrenaline flow. It was more sling the line if sightseeing. Zero action. Almost every AH vid shows action. When ate you guys going to actually some vids with the illusive real human to human action you guys claim? Because I’m not buying it. If all that matters to you is engine management then you should stay there. We din’t have mutual interest. And frankly, I’m going to put you on ignore, I’m burned out on repeat engine management.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 29, 2024, 04:19:28 PM
LOL!! who really cares about engine management? Do you play a fighter game, or an engine management game?
Some guys may want to combine them to have realistic experience. Sim style. There is a difference between game and sim, gamer and virtual pilot. Same with tanks, btw.
Most realistic sims I've been flying were in Tikkakoski (https://airforcemuseum.fi/flight-simulators/) and Vantaa (https://ilmailumuseo.fi/en/simulaattorit/).
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 29, 2024, 05:00:16 PM
I have almost zero interest in engine management. To me, its just bells and whistles. Graphics is much more the draw.
I gotta tell ya. I’ve watched some of your past videos, not one showed reason for adrenaline flow. It was more sling the line if sightseeing. Zero action. Almost every AH vid shows action. When ate you guys going to actually some vids with the illusive real human to human action you guys claim? Because I’m not buying it. If all that matters to you is engine management then you should stay there. We din’t have mutual interest. And frankly, I’m going to put you on ignore, I’m burned out on repeat engine management.
you just stick with easy mode, labels and minecraft graphics.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 29, 2024, 09:34:19 PM
you just stick with easy mode, labels and minecraft graphics.
And what is wrong with that as long as there is plenty of many different types of action?
You can have all the eye candy in the world, hell it could look like real life. If your flying around for a half hour and don't see/engage an opponent and are thinking of RTB, wheres the fun in that?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 29, 2024, 10:06:15 PM
And what is wrong with that as long as there is plenty of many different types of action?
You can have all the eye candy in the world, hell it could look like real life. If your flying around for a half hour and don't see/engage an opponent and are thinking of RTB, wheres the fun in that?
He keeps missing this main point, I'm sure it's intentional. He's devoted, he not going to listen to reason. <shrug> you'll repeat this 10 more times with no reaction. Silence speaks a million words
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 29, 2024, 10:53:04 PM
He keeps missing this main point, I'm sure it's intentional. He's devoted, he not going to listen to reason. <shrug> you'll repeat this 10 more times with no reaction. Silence speaks a million words
Your just scared that you won't go back to Aces High and I totally understand that. I do appreciate you watching my youtube vids (hope your not stealing footage)
check out this youtube video. NO WAY aces high competes
https://youtu.be/DYJSebxDFjM?si=wFcdxA2HoKzKIP2k
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 30, 2024, 07:23:01 AM
Your just scared that you won't go back to Aces High and I totally understand that. I do appreciate you watching my youtube vids (hope your not stealing footage)
check out this youtube video. NO WAY aces high competes
https://youtu.be/DYJSebxDFjM?si=wFcdxA2HoKzKIP2k
Again, that is just eye candy. I would much rather fly AH because in the 10+ minutes of the video ( he made a number of time jumps for the video) I could have been shot down by any number of guys. The explosions looked great but you needed to use "other views" to see them. From the angles he used it looked like he was going to catch damage from the explosions as he was way too close. Poor damage model. He didnt want to go back for guns, yet I never heard him getting hit on the two passes he did. That doesnt happen very often in AH.
And on top of it all, all he had to worry about was ack and his own poor flying (would have loved to see the guys by the jeep run like hell when he went by off the runway), no action.
People talk about the number slowly dropping in AH. I'll try DCS again once their numbers get to 100 on a server.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 30, 2024, 08:20:09 AM
Your just scared that you won't go back to Aces High and I totally understand that. I do appreciate you watching my youtube vids (hope your not stealing footage)
check out this youtube video. NO WAY aces high competes
https://youtu.be/DYJSebxDFjM?si=wFcdxA2HoKzKIP2k
That looked hella boring. At least it’s pretty.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 30, 2024, 09:52:51 AM
Your just scared that you won't go back to Aces High and I totally understand that. I do appreciate you watching my youtube vids (hope your not stealing footage)
check out this youtube video. NO WAY aces high competes
https://youtu.be/DYJSebxDFjM?si=wFcdxA2HoKzKIP2k
Uum, No. I say what I mean, I mean what I say.
You actually just proved my point. Look at those empty skies. Its another sightseeing video. There’s nothing going on except admiring graphics. That can only last so long before ya start worrying about finding fights. Which is why some of you are constantly trying to skim AH players. You’re not looking out for us, you’re looking out for your investment with no real fights. Never saw a furball in DCS , better yet 3-5 planes fighting. It’s like nonexistent. Any AH player can post a video showing 20 bogies in one single area.
Graphics doesn’t do a damn thing for me if I can’t do what I’m in a sim to do, fight. Kinda like restoring a old car to beautiful, yet, it sits in a garage to avoid damaging it. I had a mint condition collector’s item 1979 BMW 528i, first 3 months of production, only 7 VIN numbers. 4 on the floor. Stunning beautiful jet black, you could read a beer can in the gloss. I didn’t park it, I put 240k miles on it. I enjoyed what it was made to do. It would do 130 mph all day long, and lit loved it. it did 124 from east WA to SD. A total blast on mountain roads. I look at DCS as a car sitting in a garage. Ya don’t skim players if you already have enough fighting. You don’t, why you’re here.
As low as numbers are compared to times past, we still get up to 160 in the MA, up from 90-112 in one arena. This game also loads lightning fast.
AH numbers dropped years ago, they are no longer dropping. In fact, we’re gaining numbers. Prolly pointed that out 100 times for those who read with eyes closed. I really hate repeating myself to people who can’t/won’t retain it. Some of you are like people knocking on my door with bible in hand, over and over, its annoying. The words no longer enter my head, just go away. They wore out their welcome on the 10th time. You’re actually to the point of making it look bad, desperate.
The sharp investment makes you worry about finding an actual regular fight, hence you’re here looking for what it doesn’t have to justify it.
I don’t like the payment model, I don’t like lacking of fights, better yet a furball, I don’t like fighting AI, I don’t like that the crowd is vastly splintered between many servers. More computers can run this game than that sim.
You do you, I’ll do me. The more I’m pushed, the more I reject it out of spite for being pushed. If I want to be there I’ll be there on my own. I don’t want to be there. I don’t have time to sit on a runway for 30 min, just to not find a fight when I finally get flying. If I can’t find a fight I have better things to do with my lacking time. If I do migrate it won’t be DCS.
I’ve already proved on these bbs with video that I can duplicate those FX, as long as I have an engine to accept them. Its not all that hard.
In a nut shell, you really haven’t made your case here. I don’t think you can. If you go there for eye candy, but come here for excitement, than it probably isn’t worth my investment.
I can fly and fight here every day for a month at the price of a Burger King meal. Whats your total investment? If all you have is graphics and engine management then I’m out.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on January 30, 2024, 11:18:56 AM
Is it the video or was the flight done by a pc on the edge of its performance without v-sync, but movements were not smooth. Tearing effect.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 30, 2024, 11:38:12 AM
Just wondering with today's latest skins release, does any of these other sims have near the selection of skins as AH does?
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 30, 2024, 11:40:46 AM
You can run DCS smoothly on a GTX 1000 series card if you reduce many or most of the settings. A 3000 series card can handle just about everything on the highest settings. Talking 2D of course. VR requires more hp.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 30, 2024, 11:42:57 AM
The more accurate flight model, damage model, weather, and wake turbulence, really show the simplicity of AH and IL-2. These items are real concerns in aerial combat
My feeling, having flown air combats in SIAI-Marchetti SF.260's at Air Combat USA, is that it was highly similar to dogfights in AH.
When I flew my combats there, I did the full range of things we do in Aces High: loops, split s'es, Immelmanns, vertical persuits, high and low yo yo's, scissors, rolling scissors, lag persuit, lead moves, energy moves, angles moves, with up to 6 g's. There were some fights that ended just like in AH, where we fought to a stalemate-ish stallfight, chugging around on the hard deck with flaps out, seeing who could squeeze the last drop of turn performance out.
In terms of feel, it felt very much like P-51's in the dueling arena. Similar handling feel (in terms of roll response, pitch response, etc.). Similar way the fights went.
I didn't have to put much attention on engine control (other than pulling back some on throttle in prolonged vertical dives). Wake turbulence was not a meaningful factor in any fights.
There was one aspect of aerodynamics that did matter in these Air Combat fights that might not in AH: flow separation as you approach stall. In real life, as you pull enough g's to get near stall, you start to get flow separation off the tops of the wings. In AH, you do see this from the screen shake and buffeting noise. In the Marchettis, you got that buffeting. But in real life, drag goes up more during buffet than outside of buffet. So in the fights, it was important to pull g's only up to but not into buffet (unless you want big drag, for causing an overshoot, or something like that). In AH, we often pull right into that buffet closer to the edge of the stall. I haven't noticed higher drag in buffet than out of buffet. That doesn't mean it isn't in AH -- it would not be hugely noticeable. But if there was a difference between Air Combat and AH, I would say it is where you choose to ride the edge of g's: at edge of buffet or at edge of stall. It wouldn't change the characteristics of the fight either way. Riding the edge of buffeting is exactly the same as riding the edge of stall -- you are just picking one or the other to ride the edge of. So this one is just a very fine, picky detail.
I've read a huge number of first-person accounts of WWII air combat. Sometimes, a pilot does tell you that things done with prop pitch, mixture, throttle setting, etc. But often, those were things that a pilot did when first entering combat from a cruising configuration. Then, once in fighting configuration, they aren't doing much other than manipulating throttle as desired for combat, usually keeping it on full, less commonly chopping it to slow down. Cowl flaps were usually staying closed. Oil-cooler flaps are usually on auto or in some state that don't require manipulation during a fight. Mixture in auto rich. Prop in max rpm. Mixture and prop are fiddled with in cruise. The other various flaps are usually fiddled with in landing and takeoff.
As a result, I'm suspecting that fiddling with engine knobs isn't adding accuracy of the air-combat portion of flight.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 30, 2024, 03:53:54 PM
If you haven't spent much time in DCS you really don't have enough information to make a judgement as to which is more realistic. It's pretty easy to set up any number of scenarios for testing. Use the ace level for enemies in DCS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on January 30, 2024, 07:28:18 PM
From another former aces high player this pretty much sums it up
Quote: It's a gamer Hospice. Most of those old farts are too old to learn anything new. They just want to spin in the hamster wheel just like they've been doing since Bill Clinton was President. Besides onset dementia preventing them from learning anything new, this close to the bone yard, most of them can't invest in a new machine to run it. Half of them are probably on intel 486 chips. No, at this point the best we can do is keep grandpa comfortable until the inevitable end comes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on January 30, 2024, 08:09:59 PM
From another former aces high player this pretty much sums it up
Quote: It's a gamer Hospice. Most of those old farts are too old to learn anything new. They just want to spin in the hamster wheel just like they've been doing since Bill Clinton was President. Besides onset dementia preventing them from learning anything new, this close to the bone yard, most of them can't invest in a new machine to run it. Half of them are probably on intel 486 chips. No, at this point the best we can do is keep grandpa comfortable until the inevitable end comes.
Sounds like a little self absorbed idiot. Why are you even here? You're like a cockroach. get on your bicycle and ride off. werido
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on January 30, 2024, 08:15:16 PM
From another former aces high player this pretty much sums it up
Quote: It's a gamer Hospice. Most of those old farts are too old to learn anything new. They just want to spin in the hamster wheel just like they've been doing since Bill Clinton was President. Besides onset dementia preventing them from learning anything new, this close to the bone yard, most of them can't invest in a new machine to run it. Half of them are probably on intel 486 chips. No, at this point the best we can do is keep grandpa comfortable until the inevitable end comes.
Yeah, that sounds real.
If it is, it sounds like posterior ends of the digestive tract like to gather together and exhale gas at each other over there on the old Twitch chan.
Oh, learn to use the trim wheels and whatnots on your P-47 after you get the wiring schematic and tune up procedure down. That way, your videos won't be so wavy and bouncy. Half the audience had to chunk into their popcorn bucket during that scintillating Dick Darkwood joint.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on January 30, 2024, 08:45:03 PM
From another former aces high player this pretty much sums it up
Quote: It's a gamer Hospice. Most of those old farts are too old to learn anything new. They just want to spin in the hamster wheel just like they've been doing since Bill Clinton was President. Besides onset dementia preventing them from learning anything new, this close to the bone yard, most of them can't invest in a new machine to run it. Half of them are probably on intel 486 chips. No, at this point the best we can do is keep grandpa comfortable until the inevitable end comes.
Funny, you use logic in a discusion and "they" fall back on name calling.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on January 30, 2024, 09:40:00 PM
Funny, you use logic in a discusion and "they" fall back on name calling.
What’s even funnier is former players that are so disgusted with AH and its current state, yet they won’t go away. It’s the same people that have to comment containing their unwanted input on social media instead of just scrolling on by.
It seems like the only reason they’re here is to talk negatively about AH. It’s obvious their “friends” are elsewhere. So why stay?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on January 31, 2024, 02:18:56 AM
2) Combat Flight Simulator, the first word in the term. I’m prolly the last one who should ask this,…How many kills have you gotten in DCS in the last year of another human pilot?
Some dude has 250 human kills in January on the most populated WW2 server. I wouldn't want to see his hours played stat but he is an American fellow when primetime is Euro centric. Clearly an exception to the averages but fair play to him.
That's roughly 10 a day. Now 1 decent dogfight against a human player is enough adrenaline to keep the addiction going so he is definitely having "fun"
Not being a negative nancy but just pointing out the numbers is folly, having 150 in one arena split three ways does not automatically equate to more action especially when it is commonplace for both teams to gang the other and individuals to run, hide in Gv's and manned guns (see shane's thread in general discussion). So unless you go about switching sides and hunting the dar bar for fights, something I have never really done, because I enjoy the capture the flag teamwork element. you cannot argue that more players means more action whilst comparing these games.
AH does multiplayer the best due to it's current variety of things you can do, I think we all accept that but it can get repetitive when certain behaviours come to the forefront. Human nature I guess.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on January 31, 2024, 04:56:49 AM
From another former aces high player this pretty much sums it up
Quote: It's a gamer Hospice. Most of those old farts are too old to learn anything new. They just want to spin in the hamster wheel just like they've been doing since Bill Clinton was President. Besides onset dementia preventing them from learning anything new, this close to the bone yard, most of them can't invest in a new machine to run it. Half of them are probably on intel 486 chips. No, at this point the best we can do is keep grandpa comfortable until the inevitable end comes.
Cuts a bit close to the bone, but it's funny and there is truth to it. As people get older they get stuck in their ways become more resistant to change, Windows XP sure is comfortable. I think everyone in AH over 40 will be seething reading that; more name calling than valuable discussion :rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on January 31, 2024, 08:19:22 AM
Not being a negative nancy but just pointing out the numbers is folly, having 150 in one arena split three ways does not automatically equate to more action especially when it is commonplace for both teams to gang the other and individuals to run, hide in Gv's and manned guns (see shane's thread in general discussion). So unless you go about switching sides and hunting the dar bar for fights, something I have never really done, because I enjoy the capture the flag teamwork element. you cannot argue that more players means more action whilst comparing these games.
AH does multiplayer the best due to it's current variety of things you can do, I think we all accept that but it can get repetitive when certain behaviours come to the forefront. Human nature I guess.
Well said Bruv!
I think it also matters where you take your social satisfaction. Some get their main satisfaction from shooting down a "human" player. Shooting down A/I (no matter how challenging) doesn't do it for them. For others, the payoff comes from working closely with friends to accomplish an objective.
For those that like fighting with friends, AH can be problematic. Low numbers outside of US prime time, uneven numbers being split among three countries, numbers being further divided between air/ground vehicles, and player behavior, can make for very slow game play.
A majority of my game play is meeting with my friends on Teamspeak, deciding what we want to do (air to air, air to ground or both), starting a mission, and then working together to complete the objective. The enemy is A/I, it is challenging enough to pose a serious threat, is ALWAYS available, and ALWAYS aggressive.
Whenever I feel the need to go against a human adversary there are usually several servers with 60+ players available (both US and European prime times). That number may seem low, but the number is split between two sides, all air to air, and is also augmented with A/I. It makes for a challenging environment.
Then there are the times I want to do some solo flying. I have missions, campaigns, instant action, and training scenarios available. If I don't like those I can create my own missions or download missions created by others.
For me, this varied content ensures that I can have a good play experience any time I can carve out some precious playtime from real life.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on January 31, 2024, 09:01:46 AM
Seems this thread has run its course lol.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on January 31, 2024, 09:08:41 AM
Cuts a bit close to the bone, but it's funny and there is truth to it. As people get older they get stuck in their ways become more resistant to change, Windows XP sure is comfortable. I think everyone in AH over 40 will be seething reading that; more name calling than valuable discussion :rofl
Most of those probably don't have half the machine I have. ROTFLMO
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 31, 2024, 09:18:44 AM
My younger brother, turns 68 this weekend, just upgraded to a Pimax Crystal and RTX 4080. He did this solely for DCS. Just sayin'.
We upgraded him to a Ryzen 7 5800X3D not long ago and now he's looking at upgrading to a 7800X3D. Told him to wait and see how well the 5800X3D can push the 4080.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on January 31, 2024, 10:01:09 AM
Cuts a bit close to the bone, but it's funny and there is truth to it. As people get older they get stuck in their ways become more resistant to change, Windows XP sure is comfortable. I think everyone in AH over 40 will be seething reading that; more name calling than valuable discussion :rofl
I know it was a bit tongue-in-cheek but I'd be surprised if Windows XP had even 5% of the OS market share of AH players.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 31, 2024, 11:23:58 AM
I still think the days with numbers that allow decent play with 3 countries is long gone and not coming back
Need to make this two countries imo as that would resolve many complaints about AH discussed here to infinity without any resolution
Isn't that just a change in map making..just setting it up with just two countries as the selection of sides?
Like MNM is now..imagine that split up 3 ways with the low numbers in it? Same in ma to me these days..
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 31, 2024, 11:31:52 AM
I still think the days with numbers that allow decent play with 3 countries is long gone and not coming back
Need to make this two countries imo as that would resolve many complaints about AH discussed here to infinity without any resolution
Isn't that just a change in map making..just setting it up with just two countries as the selection of sides?
Like MNM is now..imagine that split up 3 ways with the low numbers in it? Same in ma to me these days..
Eagler
How would you control the side balance? How many players would log on and jump to the side that was rolling the map? Once one side was over loaded, it would ALWAYS be over loaded.
Auto placement.... you log in game decide which team to put you on for side balancing. Now the sides are always balanced. Squads are gone because you can never be sure which team you will be assigned, OR you tune squadies and "spy" for each other or work to pad each others scores by being sacrificial lambs.
Maybe Hitech could build an algorithm that looks back at the previous tour and calculates attendance by squad and automatically places them on sides to maintain a balance..... as long as the players keep playing.
Those "other games" work ok with 2 sides because they have much lower numbers, or are friends setting up missions, and have AI to fill out the imbalances. One of the best things in this game is NO AI.
Sure AH has issues with 3 sides due to the numbers. I still think HTC could adjust the coad to "guide" players to attack the other fronts thus giving everyone some action. Whether it is limiting resources along the front with the prolonged action,
Dont limit planes, other than by ENY, but limit fuel and ords. Tale more than 2-3 bases from one team and fuel and ords on that side of the map automatically drop to 50%. Supply cant keep up with the advancing front.
or harding the targets along the front with prolonged action but only until the action switches to the other front for a bit.
Years ago you could take fuel at a base down to 25%. when the attacking team porked all the fuel along a front you couldnt up a plane with enough gas to defend and they would just roll bases.... HTC made a change
Years ago NOE missions were the norm, a base would flash over here and by the time you upped it was captured and they would disappear to attack some place else along the front and sometimes on the other front. Time after time flash up lose a base, "wack-a-Mole". ..... HTC made changes.
Years ago The cities and HQ would be down for hours for some countries which removes ALL radar. No dots, no bars, no nothing.....HTC made changes
I think its time HTC made some more changes to keep up with the evolution of the game.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 31, 2024, 12:59:52 PM
Well in MNM we are mature enough to balance the sides ourselves
I guess that is too much to hope for in ma
And yes it is as simple as leaving out the 3rd country isn't it
I'd be for a trial run where say knights are disabled and we are forced into rook or bish depending on the numbers
It needs to happen imo
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 31, 2024, 01:11:22 PM
Well in MNM we are mature enough to balance the sides ourselves
I guess that is too much to hope for in ma
And yes it is as simple as leaving out the 3rd country isn't it
I'd be for a trial run where say knights are disabled and we are forced into rook or bish depending on the numbers
It needs to happen imo
Eagler
I can understand that at this late date, there is probably too much hard coded logic in the ENY\Win-the-War logic that assumes 3-sides to make it worth trying to fix at this point.
And the player are so invested in their little chess pieces, a third would quit if you removed their country. Though you could switch to Reds vs Blues. But then all three chess pieces would melt down. lol
They will claim this and that, but HT has long ago explained that 3-sides has nothing to do with side balancing and has no effect on that. So obviously 2-sides won't be worse than 3 in that. 3-sides already has all those problems and doesn't seem to help a bit. Just ask Shane.
Their arguments are as irrelevant as incorrect, but the real issue is that would be way too much code to expect to be touched at this point.
Your best bet is to just keep compressing maps to a size that maintains your desired density, but one side will still get ignored occasionally in a 3-sided war. That's what you've had. That's what you got. That's all your gonna get.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 31, 2024, 01:30:27 PM
Does it take any coding though?
Couldn't the one side just be disabled making it two sided instead of 3?
I don't care about "winning the war/map" as I never have so that doesn't figure into that I guess..
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 31, 2024, 01:36:32 PM
Couldn't the one side just be disabled making it two sided instead of 3?
I don't care about "winning the war/map" as I never have so that doesn't figure into that I guess..
Eagler
Turn off one team and that team will quit. Turning off the war and 80-90% of the players would quit.
How many players did you have in "Monday Madness" this week? 8-10? thats what you'll have in the MA turning off the war.
Have them run MM for a full week. Id bet you wouldn't have 6 players in it by the end of the week. More players want the war, or the vehicles (we lost a lot of players when they added all those trees) or to pick the players fighting in the war. There are very few "just fighter" guys in the game.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on January 31, 2024, 01:56:36 PM
How many people would bail to the other side once the map win was close just to get the perks?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on January 31, 2024, 02:04:03 PM
I’m sure some people do it but it’s more difficult notice with three if not a lot. It just feels to me it would happen more with two.
I don't see the mechanism.
You would have a side switch cool-down time. I don't see how two-sides is any different.
As HT said, 3-sides has nothing to do with side balancing. It obviously doesn't do so now. Ask Shane.
ENY is the proper tool for pushing players to balance. You might need to adjust it to bring more pain to bear until you get the desired behavior, but 3-sides has no effect at all.
But don't worry, there is no risk of two sides.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on January 31, 2024, 02:51:46 PM
Couldn't the one side just be disabled making it two sided instead of 3?
I don't care about "winning the war/map" as I never have so that doesn't figure into that I guess..
Unless things have changed: In the AvA we often had three-side maps that we used as two-sides. When setting up the map, you had to leave one base active for the third side. So typically we'd choose one far from where the action was going to be. Should work in MA.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 31, 2024, 02:55:37 PM
Unless things have changed: In the AvA we often had three-side maps that we used as two-sides. When setting up the map, you had to leave one base active for the third side. So typically we'd choose one far from where the action was going to be. Should work in MA.
- oldman
Did you have base-capture\win-the-war?
I thought I was told by HT once that only Melee was allowed to have that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on January 31, 2024, 03:28:22 PM
I thought I was told by HT once that only Melee was allowed to have that.
Good question! I don't believe anyone ever tried. Possibly that was because it couldn't be done except in the MA, but it might also have been a setting. Jaeger might know.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 31, 2024, 03:39:01 PM
Good question! I don't believe anyone ever tried. Possibly that was because it couldn't be done except in the MA, but it might also have been a setting. Jaeger might know.
- oldman
I am pretty sure only the Melee is supposed to have that to give it a unique purpose.
And I'm pretty sure doing what you described, like what Scenarios do and I did in WWIWF, wouldn't work with that Win-the-War logic.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on January 31, 2024, 04:21:13 PM
I'll come back to the MA if I can bring my F-16.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on January 31, 2024, 04:28:32 PM
About 10 pages ago. It's going backwards at this point. Repeats with more inventive ways to say the same thing. "Mine is bigger than yours", "Follow my flute", "Listen to me, I know everything...", "Keep it on top".
I predicted once it cooled down Trips would be in here carpet bombing, keep it on top and burying facts that he hates to come out on top... that 1) numbers are coming up in AH, 2)there is almost no fight in Pretty Planes. Keep the negatives rolling. WHALLA as predicted. What 10 post? We all know the routine and how this was going to go. It's sales with a different swing.
I'll return to Pretty Planes when they can produce fights instead of a freshly waxed plane sitting in the garage, and 100 players in one arena. Neither are going to happen.
All they really did was set the stage for Trips. You guys can finish this at Pretty Planes now, since that's what it's really about. Some of you bite every shinny hook and give away the store.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 01, 2024, 01:40:25 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: icepac on February 01, 2024, 06:17:44 AM
The vocal minority campaigned for changes which reduced this sim to a tiny sliver of what it once was.
When the 49ers went mobile, I hunted them right away and enjoyed mucho fun while everybody else complained because they can't be bothered to expand their mission profile to include hunting.
I later joined with them on some epic missions but left when I realized that stealth is no longer in the game.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 01, 2024, 06:22:52 AM
The vocal minority campaigned for changes which reduced this sim to a tiny sliver of what it once was.
When the 49ers went mobile, I hunted them right away and enjoyed mucho fun while everybody else complained because they can't be bothered to expand their mission profile to include hunting.
I later joined with them on some epic missions but left when I realized that stealth is no longer in the game.
I think dar was simplified to make it easier to find a fight with the lower numbers on the way too big for the number of players maps..
Dar should be reset and the maps cut to half their sizes imo
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 01, 2024, 04:09:34 PM
If you ever wanted to lob an AMRAAM 60 miles, and who hasn't, here's how.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JEDgIt1erA
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 04:17:42 PM
I've read a huge number of first-person accounts of WWII air combat. Sometimes, a pilot does tell you that things done with prop pitch, mixture, throttle setting, etc. But often, those were things that a pilot did when first entering combat from a cruising configuration. Then, once in fighting configuration, they aren't doing much other than manipulating throttle as desired for combat, usually keeping it on full, less commonly chopping it to slow down. Cowl flaps were usually staying closed. Oil-cooler flaps are usually on auto or in some state that don't require manipulation during a fight. Mixture in auto rich. Prop in max rpm. Mixture and prop are fiddled with in cruise. The other various flaps are usually fiddled with in landing and takeoff.
You just described exactly what DCS engine management entails in combat. Manifold pressure (aka throttle) and RPM are the only things that really change in combat. For aircraft like the P-51 there is even a placard inside the cockpit that lists manifold and RPM settings for different regimes of flight.
There seems to be a fear about engine controls in IL-2 and DCS. In DCS you have several options:
You can press a keyboard command (or map it to a HOTAS button) for "auto-start". All the correct switches/levers will be activated for you. You just sit and watch the engine come to life.
You can do a "hot start" in a mission. The aircraft and all the major systems are up and running when you enter the cockpit.
You can do a "cold start" where you activate the switches/levers in sequence that is outlined on a kneeboard checklist. For me this provides the quickest cockpit familiarity when I learn a new aircraft. There are cold start training tutorials in DCS that take you step by step, giving you a description, pointing out each switch/lever, and proceeding to the next step once you have correctly activated the control. It really is spoon fed to you.
For the P-51, once the engine is started you can simply click two switches for the oil cooler and inter-cooler to "open" and you are good for taxi, takeoff, cruise, combat, and landing. For the Spit9 you don't even have the two switches to activate.
I imagine IL-2 is similar.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: TryHard on February 01, 2024, 06:49:33 PM
IL2 or DCS just simply can't compare to the MMO aspect of Aces High which is what makes Aces High simply in a different class of game compared to the others.
IL2 is closer to Aces High in dogfighting and has a much better damage model but small servers and maps. DCS is made for jets and who gives a crap about jets, the WW2 airplane damage model is poopy, and good luck finding huge dogfights online.
I keep saying a game that can merge Aces High MMO aspects with some of the finer details of the IL2 flight model with DCS graphics would be amazing. However technology still hasn't progressed enough for that to be possible IMO.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 08:13:25 PM
Well, you might lure me to the Dark Side when this bad boy drops... :devil
Mainly because it is not BVR.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Bixby on February 01, 2024, 08:25:02 PM
TryHard...AcesHigh MMO is without a doubt the best. I enjoy both IL2 GB and DCS but, If Dale and Jason from IL2 teamed up for the next sim...That would be something!
It wont happen but...Wishes don't wash dishes as my better half tells me. :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 08:58:31 PM
TryHard...AcesHigh MMO is without a doubt the best. I enjoy both IL2 GB and DCS but, If Dale and Jason from IL2 teamed up for the next sim...That would be something!
It wont happen but...Wishes don't wash dishes as my better half tells me. :)
Combat Pilot is certainly worth watching. But it is at least 5 years away from the single player (His estimate. They said they will do that first.) Then they could start on the multiplayer. So it might be 8 years before they have a MP server. There are many a slip between cup and lip.
Also, it is possible IL2 and DCS are moving to flesh out WWII PTO to make it harder for new competitor to get up on his feet. Don't leave a potential threat an unfulfilled niche to take root in.
Besides in 5 years maybe you don't even have game companies. Just GoogleAI, inc. You just open you chat interface and type:
"Make me a combat flight sim, Yom Kippur War era, F4-E, high-fidelity, max graphics, Campaign based, Wild Weasel missions only, VR support. Optimize for the Pimax Crystal."
"One moment, I am happy to help. ... Processing complete. Here is the Cloud download link for your requested query. Is there anything else I can do for you today?"
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Bixby on February 01, 2024, 09:25:10 PM
CTrips or whatever you name is. Wishes have no bearing on reality. 5 maybe 10 yrs...cracks me up.
I have enjoyed flying in pc flights simulators since around 1990. If, in 10 years a new sim is there...I will be all over it if I can find my pc.
I get you what you post and agree with much of it. The future is so bright...I might have to update my script for shades.
Live long and prosper...:) BTW...I have finally mastered the DCS Spitfire Mk 9. I love it!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 01, 2024, 10:10:24 PM
I did preorder the Phantom. I expect we'll hear something in the weekly newsletter tomorrow at 9 regarding that. I expect we'll by phlying it this month. Raw radar scans, often disappointing missiles, backseaters with attitude, and mach 2. Sounds like phun.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 10:10:58 PM
CTrips or whatever you name is. Wishes have no bearing on reality. 5 maybe 10 yrs...cracks me up.
I have enjoyed flying in pc flights simulators since around 1990. If, in 10 years a new sim is there...I will be all over it if I can find my pc.
I get you what you post and agree with much of it. The future is so bright...I might have to update my script for shades.
Live long and prosper...:) BTW...I have finally mastered the DCS Spitfire Mk 9. I love it!
It wasn't a wish. I was just making a joke about how AI is taking everything over. Which isn't that much of a joke anymore. A lot of low level web dev jobs and such will be the first to vanish with AI. The stuff that is sorta expensive, but not really creative, and not that complex. AI is going to devastate that. If you got your job because you went to a 6 month Code Camp your job is vulnerable in the near term.
If you are a car mechanic or a farmer you are safe.
Para-legal? Lol.
The silver lining? It's going to put a lot of low end offshore outsourcing developers out of business first. ;o)
That spit is beautiful because it is favorite aircraft of the CEO. ;) Golden rule: He who has the Gold makes the Rules. Normandy 2 is a beautiful map.
I've just been learning the Pony. Went through all the training missions. Just for hoots I've been making offline missions where I just cold start on a ramp, taxi, take off, fly cross country to a pre-selected second airfield with nothing on the F10 map except the map. No "YOU ARE HERE" icon. I VFR my way looking for landmarks and compass headings. Land, taxi to ramp, shut down. Then check it in Tracview to see how my pattern and speeds and approaches looked. Make notes. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Just having fun relearning everything from scratch the proper way. It's study sim so I figured I'd do a little studying. ;) It's a relaxing evening.
And I occasionally make Bang-Bang mission for gunnery practice. And I need that too.
[Edit] Oh, and I just started the Blue-Nosed Bastards of Bodney campaign for fun. Only on mission two.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 10:12:34 PM
I did preorder the Phantom. I expect we'll hear something in the weekly newsletter tomorrow at 9 regarding that. I expect we'll by phlying it this month. Raw radar scans, often disappointing missiles, backseaters with attitude, and mach 2. Sounds like phun.
I see what you did there. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 01, 2024, 10:28:21 PM
I did preorder the Phantom. I expect we'll hear something in the weekly newsletter tomorrow at 9 regarding that. I expect we'll by phlying it this month. Raw radar scans, often disappointing missiles, backseaters with attitude, and mach 2. Sounds like phun.
Don't forget the copious black smoke!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 01, 2024, 10:33:34 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Bixby on February 01, 2024, 11:12:55 PM
CTrips...I hear you.
Regarding DCS...the Spit MK9 is the most difficult prop to learn. Master it and you will love it. In AcesHigh they say it is an easy noobee plane. Far from the truth in real life. As for the Mustang in DCS...actually easy. Beware the brakes in all tail draggers in DCS. I know for a fact that they are way too touchy in dcs.
And CTrips, get ready for the next celestial event in our life time. And don't forget about the awesome meteor shower in 2032.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 02, 2024, 05:14:20 AM
IL2 is closer to Aces High in dogfighting and has a much better damage model but small servers and maps.
Servers in IL-2 take max. 80 players, GVs included where they are available. There are those where max is less, like 30.
Size of maps varies, like Bodenplatte’s flyable area is 401 x 324 km, Moscow’s 270 x 290 km and Stalingrad map is 385 x 230 km. Tank Crew map is 10,000 sq. km, aircrafts are available and WW1 Flying Circus Western Front map is just 120,00 sq. km but with speed of those contraptions, who needs more space?
If THIS (https://stormbirds.blog/2023/12/08/exclusive-interview-with-the-il-2-karelia-map-team/) ever materializes, I can fly over the places I spent my childhood and land to our summer house if I can get seaplane from somewhere...
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 02, 2024, 06:32:25 AM
I have no friends anywhere, so I might as well stay here :banana:
Yup.... I sure don't like you, so I'll stay here too. ROTFLMAO :aok
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 02, 2024, 10:27:41 AM
So, as I take it the current state of simulated WWII aerial combat is:
AH has not been updated in about 10 years, shows no sign of updates to address player issues, MA numbers show minor fluctuations, and FSO numbers continue to decline.
IL-2 showing no further development in WWII till after a Korea era module coming out, roughly two to three years.
Combat Pilot is five years for single player and probably eight for multi-player.
DCS is working on WWII PTO with release in about a year.
Any others on the horizon?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 02, 2024, 10:37:08 AM
Regarding DCS...the Spit MK9 is the most difficult prop to learn. Master it and you will love it. In AcesHigh they say it is an easy noobee plane. Far from the truth in real life. As for the Mustang in DCS...actually easy. Beware the brakes in all tail draggers in DCS. I know for a fact that they are way too touchy in dcs.
And CTrips, get ready for the next celestial event in our life time. And don't forget about the awesome meteor shower in 2032.
I have to disagree with you on the spit bixby, maybe the ground handling and landing is a challenge but get that assisted take off turned off and just use your feet. The plane does have differential brakes so rudder is key. In AH the spit follows the same principles as the other aircraft in as much as you can assign a left and right toe brake which is historically incorrect. So don't throttle up too much when the hand brake is on otherwise your prop is chewing dirt. My left foot just pumps the one brake assignment as you throttle up to taxi, once you are fast enough for rudder authority it's no brake at all. If you ever watch them live you can hear them revving up and the rudder twitching doing exactly that which makes me go :eek: you can also amend the axis tune for brake input and scale it like you can in AH if you find them too sensitive.
Like in everything with practice you get awesome at it. I also love the P51 for it's all round performance. A good k4 pilot can give you trouble though so I have to adapt my tactics in those situations. My spitfire owns them all though considering it is 1943 vs 45 aircraft models it just goes to show that Mr Mitchell was indeed a genius.
The P47 for me is the only one that i've struggled with from a piloting perspective. Having a manual turbo lever as well as throttle and rpm is one step to far for this spitdweeb. I need to go away and chat with some P47 dedicated drivers and pick their brains on not killing the engine in a dive.
The mossie is just spit engine x4 and they are linked so no trouble flying that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Bruv119 on February 03, 2024, 01:56:18 AM
So, as I take it the current state of simulated WWII aerial combat is:
AH has not been updated in about 10 years, shows no sign of updates to address player issues, MA numbers show minor fluctuations, and FSO numbers continue to decline.
IL-2 showing no further development in WWII till after a Korea era module coming out, roughly two to three years.
Combat Pilot is five years for single player and probably eight for multi-player.
DCS is working on WWII PTO with release in about a year.
Any others on the horizon?
I'd go along with that assessment.
Slight online problem with adding another theatre/map is that everyone goes oh look new shiny stufff must have it, pay for it, learn the cold start and want to use it in action. The WW2 community then has to decide where to play on it. Everyone disagrees where and who should be responsible for hosting it. Do they put it in their rotation for one 6 hour mission then its not seen again for a week. (favourite maps had that issue here also) If they stick it on another server it then detracts from the existing normandy arena. interest falls off and it doesn't get used. I can see this already with the i16, la7 inbound, mossie and F4U+F6F. When you opt for historical server you deny people using those modules.
So it needs a burning skies type operator where everything goes WW2 dogfight server. May make a comeback one day. Furball arena :banana:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 03, 2024, 07:37:02 AM
I In AH the spit follows the same principles as the other aircraft in as much as you can assign a left and right toe brake which is historically incorrect.
it is a GAME so don't try to mix real life with a GAME.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 03, 2024, 07:40:27 AM
War Thunder falls at Game end. DCS tries for the Sim end. AH is pretty close to the middle, IL2 pretty close to that, but a tad shifted more to Sim, DCS swings for the Sim fences.
Those are for the most part design choices in my opinion. A product stakes a point out on the continuum to try and attract a certain segment of the market. I don't consider any of those choices wrong per se.
I judge a product by:
1. How successfully it achieves it's desired level of fidelity or gaminess. 2. How well that intended position on the spectrum matches my current desires as a consumer.
So how legitimate your above excuse is, depends on what product we are talking about. If are talking about WT, then I'd probably agree on all manner of non-accurate representation. If were are talking DCS, I don't think that excuse is always acceptable. Stuff in between might be a coin flip.
DCS is attempting to be the most accurate sim they can of the physical airplane. They are essentially trying to create exact digital museum replica's.
So I believe there is always going to be less "Game" in DCS and less "Sim" in WT, by design. And all along the spectrum there is a curve of potential customers for products at that point on the spectrum. The curve of potential customers probably peaks near WT and tapers off a long right-hand tail. There are always going to be fewer potential players wanting the DCS level of fidelity than WT.
But then the next question is how well a product captures the potential customers at their point in the spectrum.
I think AH fails to capture all the potential customers at it's point in the spectrum. Because IMHO, in order of importance, graphics, subscription model, lack of viable SP capability.
I don't fault AH for not being DCS because it didn't shoot for that part of the spectrum. It may not line up with my personal taste of current selected point on the spectrum. It may not fall in the part of the spectrum I personally am looking for at the moment. But I think AH hits the level of fidelity it was trying for. And I accept certain differences were commonized and simplified because those features didn't directly contribute to it's goals.
So if we are talking about not accurately representing the way differential braking worked in the Spit IX,
if we are talking about WT, I'd laugh and say your line,
if we are talking about AH I shrug and say that is not a deal breaker. I think AH is more interested in the FM and systems that directly affected ACM in the air. Anything that falls out of that can be compromised on.
If we are talking about DCS, I would fault them. If they are creating museum grade, exact digital replica's of the actual historical aircraft those little things need to be represented. That's what the $70 per plane is supposed to be buying you.
Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Puma44 on February 03, 2024, 10:20:13 AM
In the real world of Phantoms, before smokeless engines were introduced, we used the smoke and cinders as a defensive tool in attempt to blind anyone who got trapped at our six.
In the real world of Phantoms, before smokeless engines were introduced, we used the smoke and cinders as a defensive tool in attempt to blind anyone who got trapped at our six.
LoL. Like a squid's ink defense.
:rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 03, 2024, 10:46:44 AM
I think that's why you are not immediately shot down when someone gets with 600 on your 6 when you have an oil hit in MA
I try to use it to my advantage when I'm in that spot
Works with contrails too. If you have them.
I was in a Pony trying to defend some high alt B-17 from a squaddie attacking in a Dora.
I was doing ok for a while even though I haven't yet gotten perfectly used to TrackIR.
But I lost him and I'm looking around frantically and the up he pops out of my contrail right on my 6. Coming up underneath my contrail, I didn't see him until too late.
:rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 03, 2024, 07:42:34 PM
Hah! Based on that pic, I could see myself losing the tail of a Phantom in a fight.....and a lung.
I grew up under the flight path of Phantoms of the Nevada Air Nation Guard in Reno. I spent a bunch of childhood listening to raised voices, almost to the point of yelling, as they flew over in pairs. As my dad used to yell: "sound of freedom, kid. Now go mow the front yard."
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: TryHard on February 03, 2024, 11:00:07 PM
There is no comparison between any of these games. There are levels of quality flight sims. Positives and negatives between all of them. The only thing aces high has going for it anymore versus all the other flight sim games is numbers, but if you check these boards there is a lot of complaints about players just sitting in the tower killing the ENY, which always leads into the " TWO COUNTRIES" talk. It is a boring cycle. Everyone in a hurry to reset the map only to get another same old map that they will complain about.
In DCS its only two countries. The maps are so big you'll never see all of it. one map (Persian Gulf) is 76Gb The level of management of the aircraft is way more detailed. There are three main WW2 servers which are almost always full. There are a handful of cold war and modern servers that are always occupied. Fights are found way faster, and the enemy doesn't run away to the ack like in Aces High. Its only two countries
Yes there are no icons Yes you may blow up the engine easily Yes the game eats hard drives up
But it is soooo worth it. Brooke always speaks of scenarios like the Battle of Berlin. But you never see the cliffs of Dover on your climb out over the channel. Trust me when I tell you that it is indeed a beautiful site.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2024, 11:27:52 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 04, 2024, 11:49:40 AM
No game can match what happened in the special events last night with MOA. That is one reason why I still enjoy AH so much. The intensity of the battle, watching 60 bombers fly past with a swarm of bees above them guarding them at 28k, trying to get in there pick off bombers with 3 p51s diving down you. Just no other game can match that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 04, 2024, 11:50:15 AM
I have a pretty fast box and it still takes a while for il2 or dcs to load up
Eagler
No question DCS takes the longest. I get to the main menu in a bout 50 secs. Starting a mission from there varies a lot depending on the terrain and complexity of the mission.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 04, 2024, 12:18:01 PM
'81 or '82 took my Atari 400 10 minutes to load Zaxxon from my tape drive.
Might have been '83 for Zaxxon, not sure. Bought a Commodore 64 with a 1541 not long after. Loading from a disk drive instead of a tape drive was a dream.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 04, 2024, 01:45:29 PM
So, as I take it the current state of simulated WWII aerial combat is:
AH has not been updated in about 10 years, shows no sign of updates to address player issues, MA numbers show minor fluctuations, and FSO numbers continue to decline.
IL-2 showing no further development in WWII till after a Korea era module coming out, roughly two to three years.
Combat Pilot is five years for single player and probably eight for multi-player.
DCS is working on WWII PTO with release in about a year.
Any others on the horizon?
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this was possible.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 04, 2024, 02:18:25 PM
No one needs to be defensive. Play what you like, when you like. Be glad there's no dearth of sims and that they are becoming more and more realistic.
This! Play and fly, tank and ack where you feel it suits you. "My mother beats your dad"-style jabbajabba starts really sound like in a kindergarten. Whadda fok it belongs to someone, if a person likes another sim or game? I go to AH and IL-2. They are different. Am I divided personality, perhaps scitso because of that? Please, go on, pour bucketfulls of loose crap on me as I like both!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on February 04, 2024, 02:26:40 PM
Fighting cartoon aircraft without icons is difficult for some. You stick with easy mode [/quote]
Absent clouds being in the way, it is not hard to keep track of a plane you are fighting in real life at prop-plane fighting distances.
If any game makes that hard, it is making it less realistic, not more realistic.
For example, in WWIIOL many years ago, it was difficult to see planes you were in a fight with. It would have been more realistic with icons that made it easy.
At least in my view based on flying at Air Combat USA, which were camo planes that matched OK the ground of mixed terrain, brown and brownish greens and some LA smog. It was zero problem keeping track of the enemy.
Part of the reasons for this is that the human fovea has enormous resolution and color depth. Also, the human visual system is excellent at picking out motion. Some of these aspects are hindered in video, even with high-res screens and high frame rate, compared to real life.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 04, 2024, 02:46:22 PM
Absent clouds being in the way, it is not hard to keep track of a plane you are fighting in real life at prop-plane fighting distances.
If any game makes that hard, it is making it less realistic, not more realistic.
For example, in WWIIOL many years ago, it was difficult to see planes you were in a fight with. It would have been more realistic with icons that made it easy.
At least in my view based on flying at Air Combat USA, which were camo planes that matched OK the ground of mixed terrain, brown and brownish greens and some LA smog. It was zero problem keeping track of the enemy.
Part of the reasons for this is that the human fovea has enormous resolution and color depth. Also, the human visual system is excellent at picking out motion. Some of these aspects are hindered in video, even with high-res screens and high frame rate, compared to real life.
I agree. That is one of the issues current sim developers are trying to address. I think VR helps, but I still prefer the little chevron icon above the other aircraft. After playing in several multi-player servers with no icons, I think the current state of the graphics has at least reached a point where identification of aircraft type is closer to real life. Seeing the initial "dot" is hard, but once you saddle up on a bogey, determining aircraft type is more a matter of knowing what to look for.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2024, 02:51:25 PM
Fighting cartoon aircraft without icons is difficult for some. You stick with easy mode
Absent clouds being in the way, it is not hard to keep track of a plane you are fighting in real life at prop-plane fighting distances.
If any game makes that hard, it is making it less realistic, not more realistic.
For example, in WWIIOL many years ago, it was difficult to see planes you were in a fight with. It would have been more realistic with icons that made it easy.
At least in my view based on flying at Air Combat USA, which were camo planes that matched OK the ground of mixed terrain, brown and brownish greens and some LA smog. It was zero problem keeping track of the enemy.
Part of the reasons for this is that the human fovea has enormous resolution and color depth. Also, the human visual system is excellent at picking out motion. Some of these aspects are hindered in video, even with high-res screens and high frame rate, compared to real life.
That's pretty much my view. (Excuse the pun)
You could though, make the case that it is fair if everyone is in the same boat. It still might not be realistic without them because fights would break off that shouldn't have because WWII was not filled with Mr.Magoos. They were 20 yo Chads with perfect vision.
Whether it is said or not, I think the real underlying objection is aesthetic.
If I was setting up a WWII server in DCS, I would probably enable some level of labels Even if just red or blue "*". Anyone can turn their own off if they prefer to challenge themselves.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on February 04, 2024, 02:53:43 PM
But it is soooo worth it. Brooke always speaks of scenarios like the Battle of Berlin. But you never see the cliffs of Dover on your climb out over the channel. Trust me when I tell you that it is indeed a beautiful site.
Graphics, scenery, etc are nice. I'd prefer to have those things than not have them.
But for me, the realism I want is in the WWII-like fights. All the rest is distantly second place, not that noticeable in most of what I'm doing. I'm generally only looking at scenery and cockpit details or what I'm doing with an engine, during takeoff and landing, or maybe during a long travel to or from combat (where I might have to manage fuel, or prop settings, or what have you), which are minor parts of what I'm there for.
For me, if the fights I get in, what happens in those fights, and my experience in those fights makes me think, "Man! That is just like the accounts in that book I was reading on this battle!" -- that's the best to me.
So, until there's something out there that has WWII scenarios that are better than AH scenarios, I wouldn't prefer it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 04, 2024, 04:27:08 PM
This! Play and fly, tank and ack where you feel it suits you. "My mother beats your dad"-style jabbajabba starts really sound like in a kindergarten. Whadda fok it belongs to someone, if a person likes another sim or game? I go to AH and IL-2. They are different. Am I divided personality, perhaps scitso because of that? Please, go on, pour bucketfulls of loose crap on me as I like both!
1) its not as defensive as it is just stating simple basic facts of life. I question why its referred to as defensive, while the current is offensive.
2) No one looks down on their personal preferences. The point is, selling their stuff here while we can’t sell our stuff there. You should do what makes them happy, fly all 4. Just don’t come here peeing on our parade with passive aggressive sales, making ours look small for their own benefit.
Every game is missing something, people play all to have a more rounded world. Cool, awesome.
Trust me, or not, pretty planes is lacking if it wants to be compared to this style.
This is not rocket science. Its just elementary facts.
I don’t have anything against who started this thread, yet. But it can only have one direction. Down play AH and promote Pretty Planes. Very predictable. This is the only thing that can happen promoting other games on other games forums.everyone involved should know better,…IF they are honest brokers. 2 have proven to not be honest brokers when they consistently evade simple core points. Come-on, yall know better that this doesn’t help us at all. If course it doesn’t bother them, its not on their boards. As soon ss I returned the favor the very same kingpin of this reported me fir mentioning AH snd got me warned. His head exploded because I returned volley. So lets get off the innocent crap for the cpl doing it at every turn.
Fly 1 fly 12, I don’t care. You do you, I’ll do me. Just keep your dog in your own yard. Thats never asking too much. <shrug> ya gonna actually be mad at me for stating core facts? Ok.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2024, 04:33:10 PM
Just a point of order.
I checked the forum posting rules.
I find no rule that states the name of another sim cannot be mentioned.
I have never received a warning or penalty from a moderator for doing so.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 04, 2024, 05:25:17 PM
Graphics, scenery, etc are nice. I'd prefer to have those things than not have them.
Each of our own personal preferences is one data point. Obviously you have a selection bias situation.
If you go to the World Soccer Cup and ask the fans, "Hey, you guys think Soccer or American Football is better?" What answer do you think you are going to get? Now go the the Super Bowl. Same answers?
Another way to discuss it, is to put our individual preferences aside and look a the behavior of the over all market. Instead of "Do you like soccer or football?" the question becomes, "What percentage of American's primarily watch Soccer vs American Football?"
I understand graphics are not a deciding factor for you.
I can certainly see that players who have been playing a game for decades, would not be sensitive to the gap in graphics widening over time between their sim, and the graphics of the competition. The boiling of the frog analogy might not be factually true, but it is "truthy". ;)
However, I am convinced that graphics play a large role in attracting new players. ESPECIALLY with a subscription model with no real FTP path.
Think of it like the Curb Appeal when selling a house. The sale is half made\lost by the first impression pulling up. Before the potential buyers even walk in. If it looks like it has been pimped out by Martha Stewart and the Bob Villa, they are almost like, "shut-up and take my money!" If you pull up and it looks like a weedy Norman Bates house where the previous owner probably kept body parts in the garage, I'm not going to be receptive to the agent telling me about the new AC system recently installed and that overall, the house has really good "bones". Yeah, probably buried out back. Time is money, I might just say roll on to the next property, this dog ain't gonna hunt.
So imagine yourself as a brand new potential customer. Never played AW, never played FA, never played WB, not a returning player. Their first sim was IL2 BOS and now they are looking at other sims and came across AH screenshots and videos. And see it is $15 every month. No real FTP portion.
I think the graphics and the subscription are a One-Two punch.
So I can see graphics not being enough to make a committed player leave, while still making attracting any new players (non-returning) really hard compared to the competition.
I'd be genuinely interested how many current players started out in IL2 BoX but decided to switch to AH and pay a subscription. Anyone know someone like that? I'm sure there are a couple but...
So as far as growth, I think great graphics are vital.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 04, 2024, 05:56:32 PM
I know quite a few people that fly multiple sims and I don't get why we can't just take the best from each one without the constant bickering. I'm on the IL2 forums as well and haven't seen the kind of stuff there that goes on here.
So, until there's something out there that has WWII scenarios that are better than AH scenarios, I wouldn't prefer it.
I know of no other game that can duplicate high alt bomber intercepts like AH3 can.
WWII online has much of the same stuff as AH3 like strategic bombing etc, however it has no 4 engine bombers and AH3 graphics are much better as I recall. (haven't played that one in a while either)
I think that in the tactical missions that IL2 rules. Take for example when you're flying along a train track 100 ft above the ground looking for a moving train that you've been assigned to destroy or flying down a road looking for a convoy of trucks that is on the move. One that you know will have antiaircraft guns that will be have to be taken out first, while knowing the enemy may be expecting your attack and that there are other real players looking for you as well. Or when you see the flares fired from the tower or another player signalling that an enemy has been sighted. Added to this real rain clouds and fog adds to the immersion for me. Some of the AI stuff is pretty cool too. Seeing a line of of enemy tanks advancing to your tanks while both sides are firing is pretty cool too.
I've done very little DCS but I have taken the free planes for a spin and it seems like a decent sim, however I don't have enough experience to have an opinion on it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 04, 2024, 06:29:20 PM
Of course icons/labels have long been "discussed" on many forums. Obviously they are not realistic. Certainly they make it easier to find and track your opponent. A few have made a compelling argument that what makes planes hard to detect and see is the expanded field of view almost everyone uses in all sims. A video analysis showed that using a FOV with the same parameters as real life greatly narrows your focus on a 2D screen and 3D VR to less effect. Planes are easier to see when you set your FOV to tunnel view as it would be in RL.
I can dig up a video on this if there are any doubting Thomases.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 04, 2024, 06:32:18 PM
Of course in 5th gen fighters labeled aircraft might be a real thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Brooke on February 04, 2024, 07:31:42 PM
That could be. I don't know one way or the other. But I don't have any argument with that.
I have had a lot of discussions on Reddit this past month and most of it of favorable to AH. Graphics and the subscription are the two biggest gripes.
I get the graphics knock but AH isn’t that awful. I chuckle at the sub model complaints. It’s how the world works now in almost every media consuming capacity. Apparently Big flight sim disagrees lol. I usually ask how many streaming services they have.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on February 04, 2024, 09:56:38 PM
I have had a lot of discussions on Reddit this past month and most of it of favorable to AH. Graphics and the subscription are the two biggest gripes.
I get the graphics knock but AH isn’t that awful. I chuckle at the sub model complaints. It’s how the world works now in almost every media consuming capacity. Apparently Big flight sim disagrees lol. I usually ask how many streaming services they have.
Well look at it from an outsiders eyes, not someone already convinced of AH's worth.
They are seeing an older sim that hasn't been meaningfully updated in 5-6 and it's charging as much as their Netflix subscriptions that gets new shows and movies regularly.
A for instance. I'm working with a guy heavy into the IL2 1946 world. They have their servers. They have some Scenarios. It's a 2008 game that has been patched and mod'ed like crazy. I agreed to buy it and give it a brief review and he promised to at least try a two weak trial in Aces High. They don't have as big an online community (I think Enigma did a Scenario recently with 80 players) but some of their mod packs expand out to boatloads of new planes maps and campaigns. Fully mod'ed it looks very close to AH. Maybe slightly better. I see a ton of potential for mutually beneficial cross-pollination between the 1946 and AH communities. I told him they are not twins, but probably kissing-cousins. I think all those 1946 guys should at least do the two-week trial. That is what I'm going to recommend.
But their sim cost them $5-10. Everything else was free. That is what you are competing against with a sim with similar graphics. (AH FM, server tech better.) I bought my copy on sale for $4.99.
That is IL2 1946. AH does not compete with IL2 GB graphically, IMHO.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 05, 2024, 12:23:33 AM
I play 1946 single player with the BAT mod. It’s fun. No I do not want to play it online.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 05, 2024, 04:32:31 AM
1) its not as defensive as it is just stating simple basic facts of life. I question why its referred to as defensive, while the current is offensive.
2) No one looks down on their personal preferences. The point is, selling their stuff here while we can’t sell our stuff there. You should do what makes them happy, fly all 4. Just don’t come here peeing on our parade with passive aggressive sales, making ours look small for their own benefit.
Every game is missing something, people play all to have a more rounded world. Cool, awesome.
Trust me, or not, pretty planes is lacking if it wants to be compared to this style.
This is not rocket science. Its just elementary facts.
I don’t have anything against who started this thread, yet. But it can only have one direction. Down play AH and promote Pretty Planes. Very predictable. This is the only thing that can happen promoting other games on other games forums.everyone involved should know better,…IF they are honest brokers. 2 have proven to not be honest brokers when they consistently evade simple core points. Come-on, yall know better that this doesn’t help us at all. If course it doesn’t bother them, its not on their boards. As soon ss I returned the favor the very same kingpin of this reported me fir mentioning AH snd got me warned. His head exploded because I returned volley. So lets get off the innocent crap for the cpl doing it at every turn.
Fly 1 fly 12, I don’t care. You do you, I’ll do me. Just keep your dog in your own yard. Thats never asking too much. <shrug> ya gonna actually be mad at me for stating core facts? Ok.
You totally missed the fact my message wasn't targeted directly to you, but you anyway had to catch the ball. One man's facts are not facts for someone else.
Anyway, my dog stays on its yard and it is not even barking as it is ok with its conditions. Some dogs just bark so hard the whole forum shakes from echoes.
I know quite a few people that fly multiple sims and I don't get why we can't just take the best from each one without the constant bickering. I'm on the IL2 forums as well and haven't seen the kind of stuff there that goes on here.
Exactly. But there are always those, who know better. In every subject.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 07:24:44 AM
Evidently no one is playing IL2 or DCS as they are all over here on the AHIII boards. Go figure.
Yeah, no. Thousands post about DCS on the DCS boards and reddit every day. You have a handful of us old time AH players posting here.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 07:41:12 AM
There are several Reddit DCS focused forums. Complaints abound on all of them along with requests for help, suggestions, admiration, etc.... Folks are getting anxious for the F-4E.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 07:57:09 AM
According to the pre-release manual Heatblur published a few days ago this module will be something we've never seen in a PC sim before.
"next-gen components based simulation framework -the aircraft is simulated as a connection of thousands of individual components"
"things now happen naturally, influenced by each other, and not scripted anymore"
It's an old plane. Many will buy it for the novelty and/or historic value. Some, or most will fly it around a bit, never learn all aspects of operation, and let it rust in the hanger. Others will add a squad night for it, learn how to cold start it in their sleep, master formation flying, even get kills with the AIM-7. I'm probably in the former group.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 05, 2024, 08:50:42 AM
I play 1946 single player with the BAT mod. It’s fun. No I do not want to play it online.
So my point was that 1946 could provide a large SP\Campaign low cost "add-on" for AH players for something that could be configured to look and feel similar to AH.
And perhaps AH could provide the 1946 players with an better online experience than they can get in 1946 while still looking and working a lot like their 1946, labels and all.
I'd recommend trying to see those guys as fellow simmers in a very similar game, and not threats to your sim. You might see a few poke in here and they might accidentally mention 1946. That doesn't make them apostates of the faith.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 05, 2024, 08:58:22 AM
There are several Reddit DCS focused forums. Complaints abound on all of them along with requests for help, suggestions, admiration, etc.... Folks are getting anxious for the F-4E.
This place was full of suggestions, complaints, beeches, whines, demands for changes, on a daily basis. In the Golden Years of it's Prime!
That's the way flight simmers are. Especially combat flight simmers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 09:04:00 AM
I made a series of videos (deleted now) testing the F-14 against several other jets, head to head, guns only. Just me vs AI, all aces level. I got to the Mig-31 and he just flew past and kept going. WTH? Oh yeah, no gun on the -31.
Jets aren't just all about missiles.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 05, 2024, 09:05:20 AM
According to the pre-release manual Heatblur published a few days ago this module will be something we've never seen in a PC sim before.
"next-gen components based simulation framework -the aircraft is simulated as a connection of thousands of individual components"
"things now happen naturally, influenced by each other, and not scripted anymore"
It's an old plane. Many will buy it for the novelty and/or historic value. Some, or most will fly it around a bit, never learn all aspects of operation, and let it rust in the hanger. Others will add a squad night for it, learn how to cold start it in their sleep, master formation flying, even get kills with the AIM-7. I'm probably in the former group.
I didn't pre-order. I might wait a little after the first release and let the first patch come out.
Mainly I wanna know where I can use it and how. Will it come with a campaign? Will Enigma CW add it? Will it be viable?
Honestly, I already have 5-6 airframes I am still trying to learn. lol. I could stay busy for another year. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 09:07:59 AM
A multiplayer dynamic campaign is really needed. It's in the works but has been for a while.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on February 05, 2024, 09:23:26 AM
Don't take my word for it, go to reddit and search on DCS, see for yourself.
Or just check out hoggit, one of the more active groups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/
I fly AHIII and have really little to no interest in those other games. That is why I am here and I expect why everyone else is also.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 09:46:22 AM
Yhese guys are becoming a last word cancer. Just bury em over and over.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 10:00:42 AM
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this wa
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 10:03:40 AM
Pretty sure I know how to get threads locked
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 10:08:48 AM
Pretty sure AH doesn't need an outspoken defender animl. Just a discussion here among a very few. If our 2 cents can kill AH then it's already dead.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 05, 2024, 10:15:20 AM
Pretty sure AH doesn't need an outspoken defender animl. Just a discussion here among a very few. If our 2 cents can kill AH then it's already dead.
Nonsense, anything to do with trips is sales. Its s pissing contest . Obviously the welcome has run out among many of us, if you yhink its just me, then you don’t take hints well
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 10:36:02 AM
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this wa
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 05, 2024, 10:37:30 AM
Animl you don’t have to take all the bait.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 05, 2024, 10:56:27 AM
Or, you could simply ignore this thread if talk about other sims bothers you.
You and BS trips are wearing out your welcome durin a scenario. Your dushonest bs is shinning right now. You’re hete to sell with trippy, nothing mire, nothing less. Take it to dcs dweeb
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 12:52:20 PM
Trippy has you here because he already wire out his welcome with many. Even people who notmally lets this go ate hi ting to you enough is enough. Its not just me morons.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 12:58:29 PM
No need to be rude or start name calling. We really aren't a threat or threatening.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: nopoop on February 05, 2024, 03:05:32 PM
I've enjoyed the discussion quite a bit. Nice to get info on alterative sims. This "game" is my choice. Has been since 99.
The only downside to this thread is you Animl and your cut and paste whines..
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 03:11:05 PM
Regarding jets vs props. Make them arm wrestle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkTjs4u7XYE
The best comment: "Shooting a Fox 2 from your 4th gen fighter at a WWII era opponent because you can’t gun him is the DCS equivalent of rage-quitting IMO."
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 05, 2024, 03:42:42 PM
I've enjoyed the discussion quite a bit. Nice to get info on alterative sims. This "game" is my choice. Has been since 99.
The only downside to this thread is you Animl and your cut and paste whines..
Yup, it seems to me that players choose the game they want to play by what is important in that game.
To me playing the other games lack different things while excelling in others. Aces High has what Im looking for in a "Combat flight sim". Many planes to fly including medium and heavy buffs. Ground vehicles and ships with PT boats and LVTs to play with. All to use against other players that I dont really have to hunt for. I KNOW I will find some one to fight EVERY flight.
Other players my like flying to a base or RR yard to make a few strafing runs to then take that long trip home, or just spot a guy on radar lock on a missle and fire it never "seeing" his opponent.
So I guess it comes down to which type of play your looking for as to which game you play.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 05, 2024, 03:46:56 PM
Yup, it seems to me that players choose the game they want to play by what is important in that game.
To me playing the other games lack different things while excelling in others. Aces High has what Im looking for in a "Combat flight sim". Many planes to fly including medium and heavy buffs. Ground vehicles and ships with PT boats and LVTs to play with. All to use against other players that I dont really have to hunt for. I KNOW I will find some one to fight EVERY flight.
Other players my like flying to a base or RR yard to make a few strafing runs to then take that long trip home, or just spot a guy on radar lock on a missle and fire it never "seeing" his opponent.
So I guess it comes down to which type of play your looking for as to which game you play.
Nope sorry… it’s the Highlander. There can be only one. Make your choice now!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 04:27:09 PM
Just because I liked the song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzhtRgDHHhk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 05, 2024, 05:12:26 PM
No other sim has Monday Night Madness :airplane:
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 05:37:27 PM
Don't know how I missed this guy before. I like their sense of understated drama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-shmxLT5WU
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:25:50 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:26:56 PM
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this wa
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:27:52 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:32:08 PM
Don't know how I missed this guy before. I like their sense of understated drama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-shmxLT5WU
well Mr. PcWarrior, your dishonest true self is leaking out, as predicted. Time, and all dweebs show their true colors. You'll soon resort to Trippy's route of personal attacks from a PC dweeblble. You're losing and it showing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:33:34 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:34:29 PM
Your froth is dripping.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 05, 2024, 06:36:27 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 06:45:05 PM
I was never an Alice Cooper fan from his first public appearance. Just seemed too needy to me. I'm probably older than you.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Puma44 on February 05, 2024, 06:54:04 PM
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this wa
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 05, 2024, 10:05:45 PM
WWII has been over for 80 years. The cold war was won in ninety one. WWIII has begun. Probably won't be no games rehashing this one.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 05, 2024, 10:46:16 PM
At least Animl is consistent I guess. I don’t understand his xenophobia about this place.
As has been discussed to the upmost deadening horse, AH is a unicorn among the current sims and many of us play them all in some capacity.
I play AH online for the vast item set and capture the flag style play.
I use IL2s for single player. The newer IL2 GB or BOS has all the bells and whistles you could ever need and pretty pretty neat single player career. Yet, it has a somewhat repetitive mission creep. IL2 -1946 with the best mods is the closest you will get to the scrapped AH career mode. With the BAT mod you can do careers or single missions for dozens of countries in both the ETO and PTO areas.
If Animl played IL2-1946 offline modded his head would spin.
I tried DCS and no thanks. I have played jets in my lifetime and I am only a fan. Used to play Lock On quite a bit in my early sim days and it just never took like the prop planes. I know DCS had a big market share and I am I follower of r/hoggit and yet I still don’t care. I took the trial aircraft for spin and I’m good for now.
Make all the arguments you need for whatever platform(s) you cherish, for me AH has the overall experience I am seeking. Robust WWII gameplay and a group of people I enjoy. Thankfully you don’t care what I like I don’t care anyway.
It’s not the Highlander. <cue twelve paragraphs and a resume>
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 05, 2024, 10:50:22 PM
WWII has been over for 80 years. The cold war was won in ninety one. WWIII has begun. Probably won't be no games rehashing this one.
I dunno man.
I give it 6 months and there will be drone sims flying over trenches dropping grenades on ground troops curled up sleeping in trenches (rag-doll physics when they blow) and tanks with open hatches.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 06, 2024, 07:45:42 AM
Really looking forward to combat in the full fidelity model of this aircraft in DCS.
Here is the DCS version: https://www.facebook.com/magnitude3llc/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 06, 2024, 08:50:01 AM
I want the F-111 but doubt they will do it anytime in the next decade. Will settle for the Tornado which we may see in the next decade.
I would love for the Tornado to come out. I fly regularly with a real life retired Tornado pilot. Learned a lot about modern aerial warfare.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 06, 2024, 10:48:45 AM
Development was announced. Might see it next year.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on February 06, 2024, 04:45:26 PM
Combat is over rated especially on Sundays when there's sights to see so I like to fly Sky buses in MSFS2020 That Turtle Beach Flight yoke I bought is insanely immersive :neener: :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 06, 2024, 05:03:14 PM
I've bought and flown just about every version of MSFS. Brother who flew for American for many years was visiting maybe a year ago and gave me a challenge. There was nothing to it. I've doubted the authenticity of the flight model and physics therein since.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 06, 2024, 05:07:28 PM
It does look awesome though. Until you get down low in your own well known neighborhood.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 06, 2024, 06:38:28 PM
I can still feel my teeth rattle from standing close to the runway at the PAR site watching the F-111s takeoff.
I remember them taking off at Cannon AFB as a kid. Only other bird that I recall that you could literally "feel" like that were the Tomcats taking off on the carrier.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 06, 2024, 09:27:09 PM
I was at Cannon '78-'79. Lived on base, Tidal Wave Loop. Maybe we were neighbors.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on February 07, 2024, 09:26:47 AM
I was at Cannon '78-'79. Lived on base, Tidal Wave Loop. Maybe we were neighbors.
I was 9 or 10 at the time and lived in Clovis. Brother in law was stationed at Cannon. He was what we would call a photographers mate in the Navy. Dunno what that is in the Air Force.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 07, 2024, 12:15:54 PM
DCS FC3 looks like it is on sale for $24.99. Is this a good price? It looks like you get F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, Su-25, and J-11 for that price? That's less then $3 per aircraft.
I'm really interested cause the $80 per plane was a deal breaker for me but this seems like it might be worth checking out. Am I wrong?
It says they are compatible with DCS world. Is this the place where you see the dogfights like growling sidewinder or is this on a specific server.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 07, 2024, 12:43:16 PM
DCS FC3 looks like it is on sale for $24.99. Is this a good price? It looks like you get F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, Su-25, and J-11 for that price? That's less then $3 per aircraft.
I'm really interested cause the $80 per plane was a deal breaker for me but this seems like it might be worth checking out. Am I wrong?
It says they are compatible with DCS world. Is this the place where you see the dogfights like growling sidewinder or is this on a specific server.
The consensus is they are a good starter pack. I don't have them, but I haven't heard too much bad about them. They are allowed on most of the servers I think.
I have heard they are good on-ramp to the DCS system. They have even been upgraded a bit since original launch. The main difference is the non=clickable cockpit. But for anything not involved in the cold start I usually map to a stick button or Voice Attack anyway.
You can't really go wrong for the price. They fill a lot of high fidelity gaps and so are allowed on most servers for balance.
$0.02.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 12:46:55 PM
FC3 is worth having but none of the planes are fully modeled, i.e. switches in the cockpit don't do anything. There are some free mods well worth getting too. The A-4E is as good as many of the not free mods.
I made some OvGME videos a while back for activating and deactivating various free mods. I'll link them if/when you want.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 12:49:30 PM
The F-104 is a great free mod also. Downloading it can be a bit tricky unless you speak German or hit the translate button.
If you download that one be sure to select one the shiny skins so you can press F2 and admire your beauty. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 07, 2024, 12:55:55 PM
FC3 is worth having but none of the planes are fully modeled, i.e. switches in the cockpit don't do anything. There are some free mods well worth getting too. The A-4E is as good as many of the not free mods.
I made some OvGME videos a while back for activating and deactivating various free mods. I'll link them if/when you want.
Get the UH-60L mod for free and at least try doing some helo flying. Free base game and free mod, it is at least worth trying to experience helicopter physics vs fixed wing.
If that clicked with you at all, I'd suggest the Huey as the first paid helo. Best to learn in.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 01:02:12 PM
Get the UH-60L mod for free and at least try doing some helo flying. Free base game and free mod, it is at least worth trying to experience helicopter physics vs fixed wing.
IF that clicked with you at all, I'd suggest the Huey as the first paid helo. Best to learn in.
The free UH-60 can be air refueled. What makes it very challenging is that it's retreating blade stall speed is pretty close to as slow as the refuelers can fly. I managed it successfully once. Behind a C-130 I think it was.
If DCS isn't having their frequent half price sale wait a few weeks, they will.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 07, 2024, 01:35:24 PM
Thanks for all the info and the quick responses. I posted the exact same question on the IL2 forums and it appears that nobody is awake over there.
I thought $25 was half off. I can get half off of $25? That would feel like stealing it lolz..
I didn't know there were free planes.
So I gather that I can get, F-104, A-4, and the Huey for free. Are there others as well? How would I find a list of free planes?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 07, 2024, 01:48:29 PM
Thanks for all the info and the quick responses. I posted the exact same question on the IL2 forums and it appears that nobody is awake over there.
I thought $25 was half off. I can get half off of $25? That would feel like stealing it lolz..
I didn't know there were free planes.
So I gather that I can get, F-104, A-4, and the Huey for free. Are there others as well? How would I find a list of free planes?
Huey (UH-1H) is paid. ($50 on Steam if it is not a sale). Don't know about standalone.
UH-60L Blackhawk is a free mod. (Separate, you don't need the Huey for this. Just the free base DCSWorld.) If you go this route, Iron or I can help you install it. Easy. Even manually.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 02:21:45 PM
One thing to be aware of, the default control mappings will often map two device axes to the same function. You really don't want that. You want once device per axis. The control mappings are very flexible and work quite well but can be confusing.
This is more of an advanced topic but demonstrates some of the flexibility built in. I just made this because I just ordered replacement rudder pedals for my 25 year old ch pro pedals. The new pedals do not have toe brakes.
https://youtu.be/GL6QBM7PH18
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 07, 2024, 02:24:41 PM
One thing to be aware of, the default control mappings will often map two device axes to the same function. You really don't want that. You want once device per axis. The control mappings are very flexible and work quite well but can be confusing.
Iron or I can get with you on a private server to get setup and configured and try out the helo. Iron knows the jets more than me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 03:01:26 PM
The free addon mods I have available. There are a lot more. Some are standalone in that no purchased product is required while others may require you own a particular mod that the free one uses a part of. Some are fully modeled like the A-4 and UH-60. The F-104 does not have a clickable cockpit.
You can install a standalone version too. Don't need any licenses associated with it if you use it just for trials.
Ah. Now you're thinking!
BTW, if you do pick up the Huey, grab this free mission pack. It's a lot of fun and good Huey practice. Not sure how to get the extra assets shown in vid. Must be a mod pack somewhere. I did get the sweet skin. Kinda reminds me of GTA. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 07, 2024, 05:45:42 PM
I got the free download. Is DCS "world" something different or is that included in the free download? I wanna get an F14 and launch 5 Phoenix at them as the FNG and kill them hehe.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 07, 2024, 05:46:17 PM
DCS FC3 looks like it is on sale for $24.99. Is this a good price? It looks like you get F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, Su-25, and J-11 for that price? That's less then $3 per aircraft.
I'm really interested cause the $80 per plane was a deal breaker for me but this seems like it might be worth checking out. Am I wrong?
It says they are compatible with DCS world. Is this the place where you see the dogfights like growling sidewinder or is this on a specific server.
The Flaming cliffs stuff doesn't have a clickable cockpit. There are always sales. Your not going to buy three modules and have all of them mastered by the time the next sale comes around.
If you get the F-18 for example, you may just be in that module for months or years before you try something else.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 07:43:11 PM
Should have recommended the open beta version which is what the large majority uses. They are unifying the stable and beta soon. You can only fly on multiplayer servers with the same version as yours.
Something else I just remembered. You have to have at least one paid for module on your account before you can do the free trials. It was that way a while back and probably still is.
DCS World includes two free terrains, Caucuses and Marianas. Also two free planes, TF-51 and SU-25. And of course the many free mods.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 07:45:07 PM
There are dozens of videos on what settings to use. Tell me your CPU, memory, and GPU and I can recommend some settings.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 07:51:05 PM
Also, the first purchase made on an account is 50% off. Whether you buy one module or all of them. That's 50% off the full price, not already discounted prices.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 07:57:43 PM
I'm not sure about the free trial of modules requiring at least one purchase on an account. Try it and see.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 07, 2024, 09:14:41 PM
A quick walk through on how to add the A-4E mod and create a basic mission.
https://youtu.be/QiN7MzYrkLI
Here's the link to the A-4E mod. https://github.com/heclak/community-a4e-c/releases/tag/v2.2
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 07, 2024, 10:17:24 PM
I found an interesting flight sim today. Massively multiplayer, fair to middling graphics, decent flight model and lots of cool planes. It was right in my attic all along. https://imgur.com/qRalvYS
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 08, 2024, 01:33:41 AM
A quick walk through on how to add the A-4E mod and create a basic mission.
https://youtu.be/QiN7MzYrkLI
Here's the link to the A-4E mod. https://github.com/heclak/community-a4e-c/releases/tag/v2.2
It's been awhile for me... but if you end up on Enigma's Cold War Server, last time I was active there they were 1 version back regarding the A4 due to some conflict or another. This may have changed but easy enough to find info about on his Discord. I get more fun and spend more time in the A4 than any other module, and I have every one of them. While on the subject, Enigma's is the place to be if you're into the Strategic 2 sided war. The A4 is plenty competitive there. Growling Sidewinders (the other more consistently populated server) is more akin to AH in that both sides have the whole planeset... and it's pretty much a missile-fling-and-run operation.
FC3 is a really good/cheap stepping stone for getting your head around modern combat while flying at hair-on-fire speeds, and not sure if it was mentioned before but the single aircraft options are dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 08, 2024, 08:38:56 AM
For those interested in trying out DCS for the first time...DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN A SALE!
You can get the "open beta" version of DCS (this is the version the majority use) FOR FREE directly from Eagle Dynamics here:
This will give you two maps (Caucasus and Marianas) and two aircraft (flaming cliff like SU-25T and a full fidelity TF-51). Included in the "open beta" version are training tutorials, instant action scenarios, assorted missions, multiplayer ability, and a mission editor to create your own missions.
Next get the FREE A-4E aircraft. The installation instructions and FAQs are here:
This will give you a FREE early war jet that will allow you try out air to air/air to ground combat, air to air refueling, carrier operations, basic radar usage, and multiplayer servers. There is no time limit and LOTS of tutorials out there to do a deep dive into DCS for free.
IF you like DCS THEN consider making a purchase. Whenever you make your first purchase with Eagle Dynamics you are given a one time 50% discount on your ENTIRE purchase. Order just one aircraft you get 50% off. Order everything Eagle Dynamics has you get 50% off.
After all that, you can take advantage of free two week trials of aircraft and maps you might be interested in. Find something you like then wait for a sale (usually five or six sales a year) and purchase then.
Please understand this post is not to persuade AH players to abandon AH. I am pointing out that here is a FREE full fidelity flight sim available to you that you can learn at your own pace. You can try out "state of the art" and not have it cut into your AH budget.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 08, 2024, 09:09:55 AM
Feels like this has run its course. It’s no longer a discussion of sims.
Disclaimer: I don’t give a frogs fat butt if other sims are talked about here but this thread is no longer what was intended. A new one should be started if this current discussion needs to continue.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 08, 2024, 09:13:40 AM
Does telling people to stop posting ever really work?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 08, 2024, 09:35:37 AM
Everyone is free to do whatever they choose.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 08, 2024, 09:39:07 AM
So why ask for this one to be closed and another started? Not trying to be confrontational here though it does come naturally to me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 08, 2024, 09:46:25 AM
I think it brings up a possible way AH could attract more players. Allow one fighter, one bomber, and one GV to be free forever in the MA. This in addition to the two week free trial. I know this has been suggested before.
It appeals to the crowd that has less powerful PCs, takes up a small amount of drive space. This is being done in other sims out there and just might get players past the "subscription hurdle".
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 08, 2024, 10:01:12 AM
I think it brings up a possible way AH could attract more players. Allow one fighter, one bomber, and one GV to be free forever in the MA. This in addition to the two week free trial. I know this has been suggested before.
It appeals to the crowd that has less powerful PCs, takes up a small amount of drive space. This is being done in other sims out there and just might get players past the "subscription hurdle".
That idea has been shot down by HT himself here and other threads...
Sure wish HiTech would post some sort of news. A possible plan for the future or even just an acknowledgement that "the lights will be left on till it is no longer cost effective".
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 08, 2024, 10:48:52 AM
I found an interesting flight sim today. Massively multiplayer, fair to middling graphics, decent flight model and lots of cool planes. It was right in my attic all along. https://imgur.com/qRalvYS
Wow! that's a nice manual with the binding. Mine has like the notebook type spiral holding it together.
Can you setup a server so we can play? Didn't AW have 8 or 16 player?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 08, 2024, 10:55:53 AM
Sure wish HiTech would post some sort of news. A possible plan for the future or even just an acknowledgement that "the lights will be left on till it is no longer cost effective".
FC3 is a really good/cheap stepping stone for getting your head around modern combat while flying at hair-on-fire speeds, and not sure if it was mentioned before but the single aircraft options are dirt cheap.
$80 per plane is dirt cheap? I read in one of the posts that I can get half off my first purchase but $40 doesn't seem dirt cheap compared to the 5 or 6 planes for $25. Maybe I missed something?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 08, 2024, 11:04:51 AM
Interesting. I had not seen this. So nothing requiring a user update outside of player produced skins. Maybe map rotations? No acknowledgement of the decline in player numbers over the past 23 years?
Are any of the current AH players noting any change in game play aside from declining numbers (yes, I know there appears to be a slight uptick in the MA, but FSO and scenarios continue to falter)?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 08, 2024, 11:05:42 AM
I haven't done anything through Steam. Is there a reason I should or should not?
I think most seem to prefer standalone. If you want to do trials, that is easier.
I have stuck with Steam mainly because they already had my billing info rather than hand it out to another company. Especially Russians. I'm sorry, Swiss. :rofl
What exposure I have with Steam, I've already had for years so that risk is a sunk cost.
Also it auto-updates for me. When I wake up and a new patch has been released, it is already on my machine installed. ;)
But I'd bet most will tell you to go standalone.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 08, 2024, 11:08:04 AM
I'm looking into getting a 4070 Super so I'm thinking about trying out some other Sims.
Does anybody play Warthunder? Is it as gamey as I've heard? The graphics look nice but I haven't tried it in many years and the last time I did I just flew the P36 around.
Does Combat Flight simulator still exist or is there some way to fly WWII planes in Microsoft flight simulator?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on February 08, 2024, 11:08:10 AM
I'm looking into getting a 4070 Super so I'm thinking about trying out some other Sims.
Does anybody play Warthunder? Is it as gamey as I've heard? The graphics look nice but I haven't tried it in many years and the last time I did I just flew the P36 around.
Does Combat Flight simulator still exist or is there some way to fly WWII planes in Microsoft flight simulator?
Last time in wr it was very gamey...too much for my taste
I think you can purchase ww2 planes you can fly around in ms fight sim but you can't fight so what's the sense...
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 08, 2024, 11:12:46 AM
Interesting. I had not seen this. So nothing requiring a user update outside of player produced skins. Maybe map rotations? No acknowledgement of the decline in player numbers over the past 23 years?
Are any of the current AH players noting any change in game play aside from declining numbers (yes, I know there appears to be a slight uptick in the MA, but FSO and scenarios continue to falter)?
I've heard that a Vulkan graphic engine upgrade is in some level of being looked at. Not sure what that would do for AH. Perhaps some increased performance. But can that really help that much unless you had the 3d\texture artists to redo everything to higher resolutions, etc?
I'm sure any breaking bugs that crop up will be addressed. Basically there is only so much one guy can do if his skills don't extend to 3d modelling, sounds, and textures.
Also there is sort of a dead-lock condition. Anything that might could move the needle is rejected for one reason or another. Anything that is acceptable, probably isn't going to move the needle.
And some players here at least say they prefer AH with lower numbers. They say the game-play is better that way.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 08, 2024, 11:38:39 AM
That seems like it would be a poor business decision (to say that).
I guess he has already said that in a sense. No perceptible changes. If the past couple years have shown a decline in numbers then expect it to continue. Also a poor business decision. :(
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 08, 2024, 11:40:33 AM
So why ask for this one to be closed and another started? Not trying to be confrontational here though it does come naturally to me.
Because it’s no longer a discussion of sims it’s turned into a discussion of how to play dcs which was not the intention. Not everything lasts forever. :old:
If you want to talk about dcs in length then start a dcs thread and have at it.
Every know and then I have been pinging the discussion threads I have for AH on the forums at IL2 and Combat Pilot.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 08, 2024, 11:43:11 AM
I guess he has already said that in a sense. No perceptible changes. If the past couple years have shown a decline in numbers then expect it to continue. Also a poor business decision. :(
Who is it a bad biz decision for? If there are no plans for any future development then sticking an HD in a closet until nobody else subscribes is the best decision that could be made. Passive income is everyone’s dream.
At some point it will end when the power bill costs more the subscribers bring. I will probably be one of the last ones lol. But that’s because I am 50 and one of the younger people here haha!! :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 08, 2024, 11:49:08 AM
Only a bad business decision if you plan on growing a business.
I agree that the recent sales announcement from DCS kinda sidetracked this thread.
More on point. I recently bought a haptic seatpad (HF8) which uses data from DCS to provided vibration feedback. Has anybody tried this in AH or IL-2? What seems to be the support for current state of the art peripherals?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 08, 2024, 11:58:19 AM
Only a bad business decision if you plan on growing a business.
I agree, however it is not clear that is a plan anymore.
All software products eventually move to Long-Term Maintenance (LTM) phase of life. AH has had a longer life cycle curve and a longer tail than most.
At some point the cost and risk of further core development may no longer be justified by the limited potential benefits. So that product moves from active development to LTM.
Windows XP was a great OS, but it is no longer being actively worked on. It went through LTM and now is completely unsupported (I think). At least AH is still being supported with bug fixes if not new development.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 08, 2024, 12:17:13 PM
Wow! that's a nice manual with the binding. Mine has like the notebook type spiral holding it together.
Can you setup a server so we can play? Didn't AW have 8 or 16 player?
I'm not sure. The last time I tried the CD, it didn't work. Probably suffering from bit rot at this point.
I have the SVGA version in perfect condition somewhere....not sure why I didn't store it in the same plastic bin. Also have the book written about Warbirds stored somewhere. I'd like to look at that again as it has a bunch of AW stuff leading to Warbirds and finally to this game to read about.
Found an old Reggie Jackson baseball card and part of my health club table tennis tournament championship trophy from 1988 up there too. Bonus!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 08, 2024, 01:49:26 PM
Only a bad business decision if you plan on growing a business.
I agree that the recent sales announcement from DCS kinda sidetracked this thread.
More on point. I recently bought a haptic seatpad (HF8) which uses data from DCS to provided vibration feedback. Has anybody tried this in AH or IL-2? What seems to be the support for current state of the art peripherals?
I think they don't separate game sounds from voices so you feel it when ppl use their mikes
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 08, 2024, 05:08:07 PM
$80 per plane is dirt cheap? I read in one of the posts that I can get half off my first purchase but $40 doesn't seem dirt cheap compared to the 5 or 6 planes for $25. Maybe I missed something?
Yes, sorry for the confusion. FC3 is a "pack", so to speak, for $25.00 (on sale now, regular $50):
"DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3 (FC3) is the next evolution of the Flaming Cliffs series. FC3 features the F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S and Su-25." These are NON-CLICKABLE cockpits and "Simple Flight Model" (I think that's what they call it). These aircraft are on servers along with all the others (if included by the mission maker). JMHO but the most glaring difference with SFM and EFM (Expert FM) beyond the "clickable" stuff, is you can taxi around corners without turning the plane over. They fly nice and all, but not detailed.
That said, you can forego the Flaming Cliffs 3 (the pack) and buy each of those aircraft singularly... for like $8 (on sale now, regular $15) https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/ (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/f-15c_dcs_world/)
DCS World (OB & Stable) already has the Training P-51T & SU-25T and Cockasses (& apparently Marianas). All free (not sure if you can expect weapons with the PonyT)
Don't do the Steam one. Just don't. They're merging OB & Stable soon anyway
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 08, 2024, 05:20:28 PM
That will help a lot with noobs not being able to find a populated server. That was an odd thing for most servers to not be running the version that most noobs would be starting with. It was for me. ;)
But that won't be a problem going forward.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 08, 2024, 05:35:10 PM
I think they don't separate game sounds from voices so you feel it when ppl use their mikes
Eagler
Is that the same with IL-2? The data from DCS and MSFS2020 activates the haptic seat pad not the audio. The HF8 has eight separate transducers and the activated transducers correspond with the location of items in the aircraft. Drop a bomb from the right wing and you feel a vibration on the right side of your buttocks. Touch down with one wheel first and you feel it under your thigh on the correct side. When you combine a haptic seat pad with VR it really adds to the immersion.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 08, 2024, 07:21:28 PM
Interesting. I had not seen this. So nothing requiring a user update outside of player produced skins. Maybe map rotations? No acknowledgement of the decline in player numbers over the past 23 years?
Are any of the current AH players noting any change in game play aside from declining numbers (yes, I know there appears to be a slight uptick in the MA, but FSO and scenarios continue to falter)?
I dont do Scenarios or FSO but the first frame of the last 3 FSOs have had 75-90 players. The "Masters of the Air" scenario that just started this last weekend had over 115 players and was well received from what I hear. Are these numbers worst than before? I dont know but I hear they are still having fun.
As for the MA, with the new maps we get every few months it seems to stimulate activity in the arena. Sure there is still the number inbalance to deal with, and the Bish horde rolling bases in the morning US eastern time, but the US prime time has shades of the old days with some good fights as well as base taking action. GVs get plenty of action for the most part, and buffs get to bomb stuff.
If a new player comes in and is willing to ask for some help I couldnt see why they wouldnt want to stay. The learning curve is the biggest issue here. They see all the action going on and cant get into the fight for one reason or another due to inexperience.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 08, 2024, 07:34:30 PM
Is that the same with IL-2? The data from DCS and MSFS2020 activates the haptic seat pad not the audio. The HF8 has eight separate transducers and the activated transducers correspond with the location of items in the aircraft. Drop a bomb from the right wing and you feel a vibration on the right side of your buttocks. Touch down with one wheel first and you feel it under your thigh on the correct side. When you combine a haptic seat pad with VR it really adds to the immersion.
I have the older jet pad. Same deal with 8 motors. The software for it takes telemetry for the effects right out of IL2 and MSFS that I play and DCS that I don't plus a lot of other sims. I have a Buttkicker too for extra thump with guns and damage. Works really well for IL2 and DCS. I've tried it with AH but since it doesn't do the direct telemetry thru the software you have to use it in "sound mode" where it's just using the game sounds. That would work fine but with integrated vox it vibes every time anybody speaks. No way to separate it out that I've found.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 08, 2024, 09:41:26 PM
Feels like this has run its course. It’s no longer a discussion of sims.
Disclaimer: I don’t give a frogs fat butt if other sims are talked about here but this thread is no longer what was intended. A new one should be started if this current discussion needs to continue.
Seems I'm always posting in the wrong area. I figured that this was moved because I put the last one in the wrong area so I comment here and come to find out I did it again.
Can somebody break out the crayons and Big Chief and explain to me what I am aloud to post where?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 08, 2024, 09:47:12 PM
Seems I'm always posting in the wrong area. I figured that this was moved because I put the last one in the wrong area so I comment here and come to find out I did it again.
Can somebody break out the crayons and Big Chief and explain to me what I am aloud to post where?
Nah the discussion was really good but ran its course and became about one sim. That’s how threads work. Then new ones spawn and continue the current trend.
Make a DCS thread if you want to talk DCS. Both IL2 and Combat Pilot have an active DCS forum thread.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 08, 2024, 10:47:51 PM
I had one question about a DCS "sale". This was the same thing I asked in the original thread. I asked if IL2 sale was a good price.
Guess I was confused and thought you could ask something about any sim in a "Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable"
I'm still not clear on what's aloud to be posted here and what needs a new thread. If I ask something about IL2 or another World War II online here then that also needs a new thread or just stuff related to DCS? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 09, 2024, 02:22:24 AM
I had one question about a DCS "sale". This was the same thing I asked in the original thread. I asked if IL2 sale was a good price.
Guess I was confused and thought you could ask something about any sim in a "Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable"
I'm still not clear on what's aloud to be posted here and what needs a new thread. If I ask something about IL2 or another World War II online here then that also needs a new thread or just stuff related to DCS? :headscratch:
You did nothing wrong posting here. There were several responses put out there regarding DCS sales and new players, because there IS confusion on the cheapest way to try out DCS.
THIS is the place for such questions.
This thread is still about comparison of aerial combat sims.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 07:51:49 AM
Assuming no VR you can run most settings at high with that hardware. One of the biggest frame rate hits will be antialiasing. You'll just have to try different settings with that to find a compromise you're happy with.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 09, 2024, 07:52:33 AM
I have the older jet pad. Same deal with 8 motors. The software for it takes telemetry for the effects right out of IL2 and MSFS that I play and DCS that I don't plus a lot of other sims. I have a Buttkicker too for extra thump with guns and damage. Works really well for IL2 and DCS. I've tried it with AH but since it doesn't do the direct telemetry thru the software you have to use it in "sound mode" where it's just using the game sounds. That would work fine but with integrated vox it vibes every time anybody speaks. No way to separate it out that I've found.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info. I was not sure if IL-2 did telemetry. So "SimShaker" with the sound module won't allow you to filter out the voice frequencies?
Back in the 90's I had a "ThunderSeat" (basically a hollow plastic chair with a subwoofer in the base) hooked up to an amp/equalizer. Took some fiddling, but was able to filter out most voice comms.
Telemetry data seems to be the "state of the art" for combat flight sims. I have been seeing a resurgence of force feedback controller posts and hope that tech becomes more mainstream as well.
It amazes me the influx of new combat flight sim hardware that has appeared over the last few years.
I dont do Scenarios or FSO but the first frame of the last 3 FSOs have had 75-90 players. The "Masters of the Air" scenario that just started this last weekend had over 115 players and was well received from what I hear. Are these numbers worst than before? I dont know but I hear they are still having fun.
Glad the MA is doing better. When I left AH (beginning of 2022) the FSO numbers had dropped from around 180 to 120 in less than a year. The end of year WWI party dropped from 250 to 90 in the same time period. I still pull the AH FSO logs once in a while to see how my old squad is doing and unfortunately find the player numbers continue to drop.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 08:31:32 AM
I have a mix of hardware brands. Currently using a Virpil Constellation Alpha Stick, Warthog throttle, and VKB pedals. More older stuff sitting on the shelf. Just got the VKB pedals and like them a lot. No toe brakes though. VR is great but I prefer 2D in all the sims I play.
VKB USA site but the pedals were still shipped from China. Only took a week.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 09, 2024, 08:35:34 AM
I had one question about a DCS "sale". This was the same thing I asked in the original thread. I asked if IL2 sale was a good price.
Guess I was confused and thought you could ask something about any sim in a "Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable"
I'm still not clear on what's aloud to be posted here and what needs a new thread. If I ask something about IL2 or another World War II online here then that also needs a new thread or just stuff related to DCS? :headscratch:
You didn’t do anything wrong.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 09, 2024, 08:45:54 AM
Thanks for the info. I was not sure if IL-2 did telemetry. So "SimShaker" with the sound module won't allow you to filter out the voice frequencies?
Simshaker software isn't compatible with AH for starters. Using it in voice mode doesn't have any filters at all. It just uses whatever sound you point it at. I use Voicemeeter to manage my sound inputs and outputs. I tried using the equalizer on that to do it but it just muffled everything. The telemetry is a lot clearer using the individual effects. You feel everything from the engines and guns to stall buffet and wheels touching and can adjust all of those as you like.
Back in the 90's I had a "ThunderSeat" (basically a hollow plastic chair with a subwoofer in the base) hooked up to an amp/equalizer. Took some fiddling, but was able to filter out most voice comms.
The Buttkicker is basically the same thing. Guts to a woofer without the cone with an amp driving it attached to your seat doing all the shaking
Telemetry data seems to be the "state of the art" for combat flight sims. I have been seeing a resurgence of force feedback controller posts and hope that tech becomes more mainstream as well.
There is FFB telemetry available in AH. I tried AH using the jetseat in FFB mode but it gets nothing.
It amazes me the influx of new combat flight sim hardware that has appeared over the last few years.
Glad the MA is doing better. When I left AH (beginning of 2022) the FSO numbers had dropped from around 180 to 120 in less than a year. The end of year WWI party dropped from 250 to 90 in the same time period. I still pull the AH FSO logs once in a while to see how my old squad is doing and unfortunately find the player numbers continue to drop.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 09, 2024, 08:49:04 AM
Combat Pilot released their first developer diary for this year. Everything looks great but this game is so far away from anything as far as I can tell. Sounds like they are trying to temper expectations. They haven’t even finished the first two planes. That carrier looks pretty cool though.
Combat Pilot released their first developer diary for this year. Everything looks great but this game is so far away from anything as far as I can tell. Sounds like they are trying to temper expectations. They haven’t even finished the first two planes. That carrier looks pretty cool though.
Assuming no VR you can run most settings at high with that hardware. One of the biggest frame rate hits will be antialiasing. You'll just have to try different settings with that to find a compromise you're happy with.
Ooop. forgot to put that I'm using a Quest 2. I'm really looking at a 4070 super. Looks like it's decent bang for the buck. Think that would make much difference?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 10:23:16 AM
I used a Quest 2 for a while with 3070 and it was fine. I just didn't like the small sweet spot of my Quest 2 and the grandkids have it now.
I think a 1080TI could drive a Quest 2 well enough if your willing to turn down some of the detail.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 10:25:51 AM
I think the 4070 Super is a good card but it does have a 192 bit bus which will limit performance compared to those with a 256 bit and higher bus.
Scroll down to the chart of relative performance and you can select each in the list to see the specs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 09, 2024, 10:41:23 AM
Ya. I was looking at the bang for the buck. It looks like it's almost as fast as the 3090 from $600.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 01:03:06 PM
I think you're right. Very good bang for the buck. Will handle a Reverb G2 or Quest 2. Probably low fps for a Pimax Crystal or equiv.
Brother was running a G2 on a 3070 just fine. He just upgraded to a Pimax Crystal and tried it on his 3070 before he got the 4090. He was getting less than 10 fps with the 3070. Might have gotten 20 with some tweaking.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 01:08:59 PM
He's getting about 60 FPS with the Pimax and 4090 after we did some tweaking. This is with much set to high and everything is crystal clear, no jaggies or shimmering. We'll get better when we get the Quad Views Foviated Rendering working. That uses eye tracking and reduces the res except for where you're looking. Can greatly improve frame rate. The IR emitters around the lenses aren't working and are required for the eye tracking. Support is working with him today.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 09, 2024, 01:14:03 PM
I might be able to upgrade to a quest 3 one day but the 4090 and pimax are out of my budget at the moment. 4070S good for quest 3 I'm hoping?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 01:19:18 PM
Off topic again I know but hardware is evolving continually and no where is it more important than in sims. You might think Foviating would create the same effect like the smallish sweet spot like my Quest 2 had. There's a big difference though. The Quest 2 doesn't eye track so you must point the headset where you want to look. No so in the Pimax, you just look and what you look at is sharpened.
Your eye actually has a small area at the back center of the retina called the macula. The center of your vision is focused on that macula which has a much denser area of photoreceptor cells and only it is capable of reading text, etc... I had a branch retinal vein occlusion a few years ago in my right eye and it damaged my macula. It's a struggle to read with my left eye closed now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 01:33:08 PM
Off topic again I know but hardware is evolving continually and no where is it more important than in sims. You might think Foviating would create the same effect like the smallish sweet spot like my Quest 2 had. There's a big difference though. The Quest 2 doesn't eye track so you must point the headset where you want to look. No so in the Pimax, you just look and what you look at is sharpened.
Your eye actually has a small area at the back center of the retina called the macula. The center of your vision is focused on that macula which has a much denser area of photoreceptor cells and only it is capable of reading text, etc... I had a branch retinal vein occlusion a few years ago in my right eye and it damaged my macula. It's a struggle to read with my left eye closed now.
This is where us eye glass uses have an advantage. I have NEVER noticed a "sweet spot" in my quest2 because as an eye glass wearer we have learned to turn our heads to look around, not our eyes. Glasses have your focal points and so you get use to centering what your looking at in that focal area. Its the same with the quest I gues. If you want to look at something turn your head to look at it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 09, 2024, 11:42:34 PM
I wear glasses too, bifocals, not progressives. Progressives, unless the very expensive lenses, also have a sweet spot.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 10, 2024, 09:33:14 AM
MA = 168, All Arenas = 174 at 8:45p CST
Well above critical mass of 100-120, we rollin.
Just saying,....only 32 more players to hit 200. We came up 48 since mid summer. « Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:06:12 PM by Animl-AW
THIS is how wrong DCS skimmers ARE
We contradict them the more they try.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 10, 2024, 10:28:29 AM
Animal. Buddy. We both go back to AW. I know you know better than this. You're looking at a mirage. As I've told you before, it's the same winter numbers bump that happens every winter. Talk to me again when the weather turns and people go outside again.
And before you start a wall of text thinking you're gonna lecture me about this let's not forget that YOU left this game for years and years AND YEARS. I've been here the whole time. You come back, when was it? This fall? And now that it's winter you're like WOW! THE NUMBERS ARE COMING BACK! Uh. No. They're not. Here's what happened while you were away... For years and years and years.
I came over from AW in 2000 with the Damned. A massive squad. After many years and after the peak in AH I found myself flying around by myself. That squad pretty much evaporated. Hard to believe but it happened. So, I joined the 80th! A large group of like minded P-38 zealotes! Great bunch of guys. But once again, as the numbers fell away, I found myself flying around most nights tuned to squad TAC all alone. That squad has also pretty much evaporated. I still fly with their colors tho. I've been a long active events flyer until recent years. I was CO of the Damned special events squad. That fell off to just Joker (the original) and I. I folded the group and we joined the 412th. Had been with them for maybe 15 years? Hard to say. But they folded at the end of the year too. Joker fell off the side of the earth about a year ago. Been flying with him since day 1. This week's FSO had like 80 players total. The recent event frame had a few more. That's a shell of what it'd been historically. Mirroring the MA. That lack of players removes an awful lot of what drew me to events, the strategic aspect. Not enough players for that anymore. Things are almost scripted relative years ago.
I'm not being defeatist. Just keeping it real. You can cheerlead all you like, but there's only one guy, literally, that can change this and that guy has clearly punched out. HT hasn't made any changes to the game at all-- in years. I don't know what that 2024 post on the website is about but the only "tweaks" I'm seeing are by the players. A couple of maps and some skins. That's it. No patches. Not even little quality of life improvements. But HT cut the company down to just him for a variety of his own reasons. Clearly some personal things which would take the wind out of anyone's sails. Perfectly understandable. Now he's working through some physical things too. Guy can't get a break it'd seem. I just don't see him jumping back in and playing with the code if only to ruin the risk of breaking something. Can't blame him for that after all this time.
I'd say let's just enjoy what this game has left in it--while you can. Eventually, the plug is gonna get pulled on the server at HT's house and that'll be a sad day for us all but I don't think that day is that godawful far off in the grand scheme of things.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 10, 2024, 10:31:06 AM
Well said.
Winter bump on an FSO Friday night.
BTW… Thursday night it barely got over 110.
Lusches stats don’t lie.
Let’s just enjoy whatever it is we have while we have it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 10, 2024, 11:18:27 AM
DCS really is the most amazing game I have played to date. After playing Aces High for years, I can say that the level of quality and action is the best it is going to get with DCS. Nobody runs away from a fight in DCS. Nobody hides in the ack in DCS. People engage no matter the numbers involved.
In aces high it is the complete opposite. Players running away to numbers, hiding in the ack, NOE missions are the standard now. Boring
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 10, 2024, 11:23:35 AM
Let’s just enjoy whatever it is we have while we have it.
I think that is largely correct.
Still, the bulk of Boomers are starting to retiring last year. It is possible that you could get a flush of returning players as they retire. It is cheaper than golf.
For a variety of already discussed reasons, I don't see AH being able to attract new players in any meaningful numbers. I could see luring back more former players as possible.
Surely HTC has some emails for past players somewhere in it's data backups. I know they don't want to be accused of spamming. However spamming is usually defined as unsolicited emails to random people you have never had a business relationship with. Former players, you have had a past relationship with. I wouldn't consider it spam to send out emails to former players offering a former player a 1 month comeback trial. Sometimes, you have to flat out ask for the sale. No point going bankrupt out of shyness.
Something that should be considered, IMHO.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 10, 2024, 11:47:31 AM
Just saying,....only 32 more players to hit 200. We came up 48 since mid summer. « Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:06:12 PM by Animl-AW
THIS is how wrong DCS skimmers ARE
We contradict them the more they try.
Truly glad the MA numbers have increased and hope it is not temporary. Just the other day I steered a few DCS players to AH who lamented about no multi-crewed bombers.
However, FSO numbers which tends to show the more dedicated players/squads continues to decrease. Logs for the last three frames shows a steady decline 87, 85, and now 80 players.
Still, the bulk of Boomers are starting to retiring last year. It is possible that you could get a flush of returning players as they retire. It is cheaper than golf.
Then again it might be that retiring takes away the age old excuse "I don't have time to learn a new game". That was one of the obstacles for me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2024, 11:54:27 AM
"Boomers" don't know how to use computers. Just ask any millennial.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 10, 2024, 12:05:17 PM
"Boomers" don't know how to use computers. Just ask any millennial.
They do as long as they still have 5.25" floppy drives.
;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2024, 12:10:45 PM
I had a working commodore 64 and 1541 with a box of 5.25 floppies I gave to my daughter before we moved to Texas last year. Some of those disks were probably 40 years old and still worked.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 10, 2024, 12:44:22 PM
I had a working commodore 64 and 1541 with a box of 5.25 floppies I gave to my daughter before we moved to Texas last year. Some of those disks were probably 40 years old and still worked.
First computer Atari 400 with tape drive.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 10, 2024, 01:02:46 PM
I had a working commodore 64 and 1541 with a box of 5.25 floppies I gave to my daughter before we moved to Texas last year. Some of those disks were probably 40 years old and still worked.
It probably has a jammed CD stuck in it.
"Dad, the CD-Rom drive on this thing isn't working right. "
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2024, 01:53:51 PM
:D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 10, 2024, 04:39:20 PM
In aces high it is the complete opposite. Players running away to numbers, hiding in the ack, NOE missions are the standard now. Boring
The white knuckle fights in AH3 that were common seemed to be few when I left. I compare it to a fight I had in IL2 last night on the server with icons and very small maps and airstarts of a 3 vs 1 fight I had. A Yak1, a La5 and some other plane I don't recall what it was. They all wanted to take my lunch money. I was a 109g on the deck. I manage to shoot one down and get maneuver kills on the other two. Seems the weren't as good at me at working the throttle and split-sing with inches to spare. It was a real white knuckled fight, something I used to experience in AH3 back in the day but seems long gone now and replaced with squads of pickers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on February 10, 2024, 05:46:17 PM
Quote
NOE missions are the standard now. Boring
There are hardly NOE missions compared to the old days, before the radar minimum altitudes were lowered to the values we are having today. Back in the day I spent many hours on Sunday afternoons defending against seemingly endless streams of Nik-110G-Lanc NOEs, which almost instantly stopped after tour 125.
Using the best / most efficient way to ensure the mission's success has been part of AH since the early days.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 12, 2024, 11:58:11 AM
Holy cow. I know that myself and others thought that it was dark in AH3 during the night. I got to experience a night mission in IL2 the other day. It was really dark and it was early morning with the sun just beginning to rise!
I'm curious about DCS and other sims. How do they model night time. It's interesting to me to experience the day/night, clouds/weather, navigation by landmarks and other things that the pilots of the WWII time frame experienced. I can't imagine dead reckoning over water for hundreds of miles that the Navy/Marine pilots did.
It reminds me of something that old Marine pilot I met in the bar in San Diego said many years ago when I asked him about navigating over long distances of water. He said that he would fly low enough that he could see the waves and from the waves and his compass heading he would be able to tell the wind direction and speed. I doubt there are many around these days that could still do that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 12, 2024, 02:20:30 PM
The night time in DCS is awesome! It is pitch black (especially with local dimming in the Pimax Crystal) and even a half moon makes a difference. Luckily DCS gives you a flashlight, detailed cockpit lighting, NVG's (for later aircraft), and aircraft taxi/formation lights. I also really like the engine exhaust stack fires in IL-2 and DCS.
First time I flew DCS at night it was scary. Try landing on a carrier at night with no moon! Really like the deck/runway/taxi lights and PAPI.
In VR when you are done with a night mission and take off the headset be ready for the brightness of the real world.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 12, 2024, 03:55:07 PM
sometimes just 2 is enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLpNz77Lys
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 12, 2024, 04:21:41 PM
Ha! Especially loved the beginning of that. A couple dudes havin' some fun, that's what it's all about sometimes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 12, 2024, 06:06:34 PM
Dunno who knows and who doesn't but anyone can create a DCS mission and then host it on their PC as a multiplayer server. Naturally you want an Internet connection capable of handling however many players you expect to host. It's a very simple process. Even non Texans can probably do it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 12, 2024, 06:08:48 PM
Where's the enemy air? I wish all I had to deal with is the flak. I dive in fast as I can go and run away as fast as I can on those runs but there always seems to be some pony that comes out of orbit and ruins my escape. The last time I got lucky and manged to glide back across the enemy line and crash land my burning plane denying the pickin pony a kill.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 12:59:58 PM
Didn't realize I had the assist on in the DCS Spit 9. Turned it off and learned how it's braking system works. Taxiing and taking off in that bird was a challenge.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 01:29:55 PM
Not just a pretty face and not easy.
https://youtu.be/s-lknWW0j9U
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 14, 2024, 02:17:05 PM
What would happen if you used the same axis for rudder and brake? Seems like brake would work at low speed until you got rudder authority and then the rudder would override the brake?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 03:38:48 PM
Normally you cannot map one physical axis to two functions. There are some workarounds though and I made a video recently on how to do that. Wouldn't work this though as you need to work the rudders with no breaks applied.
https://youtu.be/UHSgre6V218
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 14, 2024, 04:02:00 PM
Maybe I'm not being clear or maybe I am just confused.
On IL2 I have a button to activate the brakes and as long as I'm holding that the brakes are controlled by the pedals when I move the rudder.
When I taxi and hit full left rudder while holding the button the left brake will spin the bird around. As I get going faster and have enough speed to have rudder authority I completely release the button I'm using to activate the brakes and switch over to full rudder.
I released the brakes too soon a couple times when I first started at too low of speed and it didn't end well.
I was just curious if the setup I use in IL2 would work in DCS.
These two sims are the only ones I know of that model the way the Brits brakes work vs the others and I must say I find it harder to manage the brakes on them then any of the other birds.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 04:10:35 PM
Yes, you can map buttons for the wheel brakes. One to increase them and one to decrease them. Incrementally with each press or hold it for max. So if you start your takeoff and need a lot of rudder but only a little brake you could hit the increase brake button. It will stay on until you hit the decrease brake button though. That might work well enough to get you in the air.
I use an axis for the brakes so never tried the digital. There is a button for the brakes that increases the braking the longer you hold it and drops off when you release. That would probably be better then using two to increase and decrease. If you have a spare axis though it will give you better control imo.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 14, 2024, 04:34:01 PM
Yes, you can map buttons for the wheel brakes. One to increase them and one to decrease them. Incrementally with each press or hold it for max. So if you start your takeoff and need a lot of rudder but only a little brake you could hit the increase brake button. It will stay on until you hit the decrease brake button though. That might work well enough to get you in the air.
I use an axis for the brakes so never tried the digital. There is a button for the brakes that increases the braking the longer you hold it and drops off when you release. That would probably be better then using two to increase and decrease. If you have a spare axis though it will give you better control imo.
I use a binary button for brakes currently. It works but yeah, you don't have the gradual range of braking like an axis. So when doing both brakes on a landing rollout, it's a lot of "tap, tap, tap. tap" trying not to hold too long and nosing over. Ideally brakes and rudders would be on axis both. If you have a spare axis. My new VBK WWII throttle I think will have some more axis so I will try that. You can make it work with button and rudder axis, it's just a little less control. You have to be a telegraph operator. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 04:57:07 PM
I know a little morse code. Dash dash dash dash means nose in the dirt. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 05:54:29 PM
Let the ground forces fight their own battles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjffM_4Dkcc
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2024, 06:00:41 PM
Gonna hafta get this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWbXuxMcaQ4
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 14, 2024, 07:44:49 PM
Truly glad the MA numbers have increased and hope it is not temporary. Just the other day I steered a few DCS players to AH who lamented about no multi-crewed bombers.
However, FSO numbers which tends to show the more dedicated players/squads continues to decrease. Logs for the last three frames shows a steady decline 87, 85, and now 80 players.
THIS combined with the low numbers is why I left AH.
Then again it might be that retiring takes away the age old excuse "I don't have time to learn a new game". That was one of the obstacles for me.
Peaks and valleys, everything in life. We can only tell from who post on the bbs about returning. Only a small % uses the bbs,.. that said, about 95% who do are in fact return players. And it's not just boomers. Some, who started as teenagers started a family, and now the kids are old enough to not need as much attention (40s-50s). I've seen this story several times. I wouldn't call the other retirees, most are not close to that age, although some are. It's a mixed crowd minus the very young. We are gaining seasoned players, not many newbies. But again, I can't see subs, and the bbs isn't a full picture. All they need is to get back muscle memory and their off killing. I see names in-game that I haven't seen before.
The most common comment I've seen on YT vids and some forums, is how much fun they had in it years ago. 2nd in line is, rude crowd, insults, politics, bashing...they aren't/weren't wrong. A lot gave me crap over attempting to clean up the bbs to draw more in... frankly, I still hate this thread, it's ridiculous to place it here. Like it or not there is skimming happening, this is just another vehicle, it's not rocket science. It insults intelligence to say it's anything else. but the boards and 200 have cleaned up, and we got results.
FSO, is easy to explain, despite your negative notes to the world. People are enjoying the numbers up in the MA, they don't want to leave what they've been waiting for,.. it's new. They get involved in a large battle and want to stay in it. I've seen mentions.
Once this style of playing is in your blood, not a person who left will say it was bad memories and crappy game. You yourselves, have not completely shaken it, because here you are. The hook is still in you. People don't break up with GFs and then hang in front of their house everyday showing off their new girl to the ex-gf. ok? so lets cut the insults to intelligence with "we're just buds talkin". i guess if I was a monkey missing half my brain and the other half consumed with worms I might believe you guys. People have hinted it's not cool and you go against them. I don't want any "I'm sorry, I don't mean to offended anyone..." nonsense. You're doing it by going against their wishes. of course, I can imagine calling someone friend while they put their arms around their wife, grabs her boob and say "hey bro,.. we're just talking." All you guys do is point out flaws in AH, and praise Pretty Manikins as the savior of all sims on AH bbs. but when we point out many flaws of Pretty Manikins, you stick fingers in ears and scream "I can't HERE you!". So really, this thread is here to skim, nothing more, nothing less. You all accelerated it during a successful scenario. This biggest turn out in 5-7 years, so scrub the FSO comment. When you go against wishes of old vets,.. you crossed the white line, and basically spit on them/us. I charge for kleenex. Don't think it's appreciated in the least bit. The only ones who approve it are those who also fly Pretty Manikins. I'm not angry, you know what I look like when I am, if you don't you will. I'm just telling you straight up... this is BS. A lot of people have Cpt.Trips on ignore for wearing out his welcome with this BS and attacking me for trying to add the numbers..which he's trying to skim. Same with RichardWoodMarks. Sooner or later they will drag you into the pit too, Dolby wised up. You're just being used at your expense.
if that game was so great, you would NOT be here selling it. You wouldn't need to insult your friends by trying to steal the population of THEIR favorite game, which would kill it.
Now that said,... this will not change. You all will ignore this and push your sim bible in everyone's face at every opportunity. Knock knock knock. Because we have 2 seriously obsessed former players, so obsessed it's getting kinda like an obvious illness. These are the guys who call a female 100 times after she said no 100 times. Just keep pecking at the egg hoping someday the shell with crack in their favor. Intelligent or not. It's freak show of escaped circus geeks.
Heres the psychological convincing process used.... point out the games flaws, followed by how wonderful Pretty Manikins is. The more the name of Pretty Manikins is spoken the more likely a new reader will see it. And by ALL MEANS POSSIBLE ON EARTH, avoid admitting Pretty Manikins has serious flaws and rated very low on fun factor. It's like a used car salesman who refuses to let you look under the hood.That used car salesman,.. always has a smile n his face,.. just like you guys.
You do not hope AH increases numbers, you want it dead to get the migration. And if it does get the numbers, you'll be here trying to skim them off the top.
I guess this would all be a lot more convincing to us, if we were 10 yr olds and have zero wisdom on life's characters and deceit mechanisms.
I'm mean? I didn't bring this, what is REALLY a discussion about Pretty Manikins, to another game's forums. Ya get what ya ask for. I feel like I'm explaining this to children. I thought Trips was 15 yrs old until I saw he was 60. Some people avoided maturity their whole life and very successful at it.
A grown mature adult with a IQ above 60, would know, this is not the coolest thing to do. But please, continue with your slow paced brain washing. It's humorous to me to think I/we cant see it.
DS Trips was even continued to mention Pretty Manikins in a scenario announcement,.. so lets get the hell off the innocent ACT. If you insist on acting like kids, I'm glad to treat you like one.
What "logs" do you have access to?
We're now at 186 in all arenas an 168 in the MA., 95-115 in the MotA scenario, th elargest turn-out in 5-7 years.,... I hope the decrease in DCS numbers by 2000 is temporary.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 14, 2024, 08:32:27 PM
Interesting. I had not seen this. So nothing requiring a user update outside of player produced skins. Maybe map rotations? No acknowledgement of the decline in player numbers over the past 23 years?
Are any of the current AH players noting any change in game play aside from declining numbers (yes, I know there appears to be a slight uptick in the MA, but FSO and scenarios continue to falter)?
WE DO NOT CARE, YOU DO
Now beat it and go play your white glove no action decreasing numbers dump called DCS. You sir, are full of sht
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 14, 2024, 08:33:07 PM
Pretty planes does not have a large multiplayer arena, which is what this tribe is based on. Aces High and Pretty Planes is not even really the same market. They are not the same, they don’t draw the same crowds. The core interest is not the same. You guys are trying combine oil and water. You’re selling tea to people who love beer.
The reason people player both us to fill voids the other is missing. There is no more wrong with this game than any other. AH didn’t lose numbers because it sucks, other sims got on their feet and simply split the horde 4 ways.
In all 4, their best pilots and mist knowledgeable pilots came from here and AW. Including yourselves. This IS the trunk of the tree. The further and the branches grown from the trunk the thinner they are. The core if the art of fun and high adrenaline concept is lost.
What we saw was a weeding process. What is left are the most devoted to this core concept. A good deal of these came out of the beginning of it. The most seasoned if any sim. These people would fly this concept, in these arenas, if it were 1990s graphics. By who the hell would not want to learn and compete with the best.
This is the reason you guys are here, doing what you very well know should not be done, to skim what would make your game feel complete.
There is only one single possible reason that former players, come here, away from their own forums, to have these conversations, … is sales. It can be for this game too, however, players here cannot sell there. Which puts it behind the 8 ball in your favor, and seizing on it.
My point? Aces High III, without any recent updates, is still good enough to not only withstand this, but to actually add numbers while this is going on. The “Masters of the Air” scenario has had the biggest turnout in at least 5 yrs, at 115 human pilots, in the 1st frame, so far. Noe of the others can even put 115 in a single arena, better yet 160.
“The numbers used to be so much higher”. True enough. I refer to my “4 ways” comment above. However, Critical Mass is 100-120. You can’t have a lot of battle under that. When we add 20 new players we just added two hordes and another full battle. We added 40 in about 7 months in the arena, we now have 3 full battles at once. Without mentioning 120 planes and vehicles fir the price of a Burger King per month.
Because of PvP servers instead of a MP arena, all the games mentioned above, mathematically cannot even hit bare minimum Critical Mass. So, there is no comparison on the main point we make. That huge population is splintered to dust and hard to find a fight. Nor do you have 100% MP scenarios of any real size, without AI bandaid.
The trunk of the tree is the thickest part to the roots. And we welcome anyone who wants to experience true high adrenaline with us. For our return players, the memories of this sim has had a lasting impact.
More towards the other constant two, it can be a challenge to understand calling people here friends while they crash their party and pee in their grandma’s beer. Their credibility is kinda gone. Its been a failure. MotA is good proof. It’s nonsense by the strangely obsessed. One told me I don’t have the power to stop him. “You can’t stop me” shows intent to cram it down our throats, against our will, until we succumb to him, and he usually rides in on someone elses back.
Our return players, have done so, for some of the best fun of their past in combat flight sims. It wasn’t over-sold to them. Its a preference, like your own, that is different from our own. They aren’t a good match. Ya gave up fun for graphics and cockpits in Pretty Planes. We get it. If thats what we wanted we would have done so years ago. We’re not stupid to like what we like. Stupid is beating on our door every day with bible in hand expecting different results. Evidently, we’re not the ones incapable of learning.
Despite no recent updates,…Banter on 200 has come down. Political talk has come way down. We’ve added numbers to the MA. We have a very successful scenario running. We’re in a better spot. I remember someone predicting this wa
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 14, 2024, 08:35:30 PM
MA = 168, All Arenas = 174 at 8:45p CST 95-115 turn-out for Masters of the Air Scenario, the largest turn-out in 5-7 years. Well above critical mass of 100-120, we rollin.
Just saying,....only 32 more players to hit 200. We came up 48 since mid summer.
THIS is how wrong DCS (Pretty Manikins) the white glove sim skimmers ARE
We contradict them the more they try.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 14, 2024, 09:48:27 PM
Animal. Buddy. We both go back to AW. I know you know better than this. You're looking at a mirage. As I've told you before, it's the same winter numbers bump that happens every winter. Talk to me again when the weather turns and people go outside again.
Yep we, and few others go back to when dirt was invented. You know I'm head strong on piling through things for improvement. That's half the game for me.
I'm not ignorant enough to not agree with you on some issues. We both, and others here, watched the rise and fall of AW. We know what it looks and feels like.
I didn't leave because of the game, I was going through worse stuff than HT, and then lightning hit my PC,.. and then I started working 50-60 days in a row, dind't have time to rebuild anything. I'm back because I'm close to retirement, my middle finger isn't big enough the industry, and I have more time to do what I loved doing, flying and tinkering.
We all said the same thing about AW, didn't we? But the code needed a complete re-write. Despite that, we all, including you, tried to keep the breath in it, until it's last exhale. So we're pretty prepared for this end, from experience. I'm not the only one who dump and ship load of work into it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I will say you might not be totally right. Fact mixed with opinion. I'm good with that, I have my own mix.
It's not the same. AH is saveable. This does not need a complete re-write, so there is that chance we didn't have, and graphics are NOT horrible. It won't take very much to bring it up to modern par. We'll just have to see.
As for this thread? Remember how Irate we all were when AW was in this place and HT and Pyro came in to skim players for the Beta, after all the work we did to save it? What an insult to the guys who do all the work here for free to come in here and pulled this bulsht. They are just more polite than me, I say what others would love to say. Holding our work in our hands and watching that crap go on is pathetic. Ya don't need this here to do what ever else they want to do. They are here to cause harm we don't need right now. While they skim players it shortens our life span. I have no remorse for anything I say to them, none, zero, ziltch, none. Do what ever they want, they don't need to do this to do it. It's very low class,... 2 are no class.
I agree with a lot of what you said,..but as long as it doesn't cost me anything but time, I'm going to do what I do. <shrug> Same as the others who work hard to preserve our time here....which this thread insults. Its disgusting punk stufff.
We'll see... if we can make it last longer, we're better off... and the more they do this, the more friends they lose. They are damn near just talking to themselves now. Pretty sad sht.
I hope you're doing well bud,... you know,.. as in BW,.. we're going to disagree on something and agree on others. I'm not sure where I sit with this,.. but if HT wants to let this continue while we worked our tulips off to preserve his game,.. I might as well drag up right now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 07:41:35 AM
While Drano made valid points, there are a LOT more people opposing this thread of a handful of people. You made your choice and excuses while bashing AH and insulting people still putting a lot of work on it by its existence. Several who go back to the beginning of AW. We’re all starting to get pissed that this is allowed to counter our work. You gave up, cool your choice. No one else who made that same choice is being so rude to do this. Its 3-4 people vs 100s. This thread is pure disrespectful. This is low class. I would move to Pretty Mankins just because of it.
RichardWoodDweeb made a stupid remark about how player play here and hide and don’t in Pretty Manilins, well thats because there are only two playing Pretty Manakins. If you have to search so hard for s fight, yep it will be different. Its BORING.if that POS had any fun at all they wouldn’t have time to be here. They are more desperate than us who are preserving AH. Most boring videos I’ve ever watched.
This us a desperate act to preserve their investment at our expense. Drano’s point are separate from the fact this thread is stupid.
They are here because they are losing numbers, no fights to be had while our numbers started rising in summer.
And because this is disrespectful of the people pouring there heart into AH, I will continue to pummel this thread. This is our choice, not yours, move on to your choice. More don’t want this hete than the former players who do. Trips has zero class, which is why he’ brought others in here because most have him on ignore and not hearing his low life bs. That said, people who tweak settings provided to them is NOT. A coder, it was mocking HT with nonsense.
If there was a vote on this thread it would be hone in minutes. Its time for HT to step up and help us help him and his income. We’re getting really irritated this is allowed, when politics isn’t. Same excuse to block politics is the same reason thus should be shut down. Resoect the people helping over these very few ripping us down.
Whats more important? People preserving his game and income, or former players tearing it down? Are people preserving the game least important?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 08:15:46 AM
Its NOT just me who don’t approve this thread here. Uts everyone trying to preserve AH, I’m just the loud one. All one has to do is read the counters. The pro thread are former players. Its NOT just me.
So we should respect a few FORMER players over people like Brooke, Spikes, Fugitive, Oboe, JimmyD, and everyone running events, making terrains snd skins?
Make any feeble excuse you want, steam shows Pretty Manikins losing 2000 players in a cpl months. And the excuse makers are here because of it, the loss of their numbers. They cannot prove their excuses, the charts prove mine.
Trips ruins everyones reputation with this crowd who follow his deceptive flute, using them and dragging them into the same pit he ruined his rep here. This is his 3rd posse and everyone who took the beating wised up to the fact he is using and destroying people for his benefits. Frankly, they are suckers to trips using them at their expense. Want to take a beating? Just get in line with trips. Your reputation is taking a spiral dive, credibility is gone. And after you ruin yoyrselves fir him, he’ll find a few more fools. Even Dolby figured that out. Trips dragged him right down the drain.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 08:58:54 AM
If a product can't compete on its own merit then no self-appointed defender can save it no matter how loud or ridiculous. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 09:16:24 AM
Trips dig line “ Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.”
1) congrats on stop talking to yourself 2) sad are use if projection. Throwing fits and saying humanly disgusting things because people don’t follow your rotting flute.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 15, 2024, 09:38:34 AM
Interesting take on the current state of WWII in DCS vs other sims. Very interested to see what happens with the PTO. The AI Zero is already confirmed with hints that a full fidelity one is also in the works.
I wish DCS was not the only sim out there developing WWII combat aviation.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:17:29 AM
Interesting take on the current state of WWII in DCS vs other sims. Very interested to see what happens with the PTO. The AI Zero is already confirmed with hints that a full fidelity one is also in the works.
I wish DCS was not the only sim out there developing WWII combat aviation.
Pretty Manikins is HS, beat it dweeb. AH gas more WWII AC than your boring white glove sim. Your welcome here is gone. Best it punk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:21:33 AM
Peaks and valleys, everything in life. We can only tell from who post on the bbs about returning. Only a small % uses the bbs,.. that said, about 95% who do are in fact return players. And it's not just boomers. Some, who started as teenagers started a family, and now the kids are old enough to not need as much attention (40s-50s). I've seen this story several times. I wouldn't call the other retirees, most are not close to that age, although some are. It's a mixed crowd minus the very young. We are gaining seasoned players, not many newbies. But again, I can't see subs, and the bbs isn't a full picture. All they need is to get back muscle memory and their off killing. I see names in-game that I haven't seen before.
The most common comment I've seen on YT vids and some forums, is how much fun they had in it years ago. 2nd in line is, rude crowd, insults, politics, bashing...they aren't/weren't wrong. A lot gave me crap over attempting to clean up the bbs to draw more in... frankly, I still hate this thread, it's ridiculous to place it here. Like it or not there is skimming happening, this is just another vehicle, it's not rocket science. It insults intelligence to say it's anything else. but the boards and 200 have cleaned up, and we got results.
FSO, is easy to explain, despite your negative notes to the world. People are enjoying the numbers up in the MA, they don't want to leave what they've been waiting for,.. it's new. They get involved in a large battle and want to stay in it. I've seen mentions.
Once this style of playing is in your blood, not a person who left will say it was bad memories and crappy game. You yourselves, have not completely shaken it, because here you are. The hook is still in you. People don't break up with GFs and then hang in front of their house everyday showing off their new girl to the ex-gf. ok? so lets cut the insults to intelligence with "we're just buds talkin". i guess if I was a monkey missing half my brain and the other half consumed with worms I might believe you guys. People have hinted it's not cool and you go against them. I don't want any "I'm sorry, I don't mean to offended anyone..." nonsense. You're doing it by going against their wishes. of course, I can imagine calling someone friend while they put their arms around their wife, grabs her boob and say "hey bro,.. we're just talking." All you guys do is point out flaws in AH, and praise Pretty Manikins as the savior of all sims on AH bbs. but when we point out many flaws of Pretty Manikins, you stick fingers in ears and scream "I can't HERE you!". So really, this thread is here to skim, nothing more, nothing less. You all accelerated it during a successful scenario. This biggest turn out in 5-7 years, so scrub the FSO comment. When you go against wishes of old vets,.. you crossed the white line, and basically spit on them/us. I charge for kleenex. Don't think it's appreciated in the least bit. The only ones who approve it are those who also fly Pretty Manikins. I'm not angry, you know what I look like when I am, if you don't you will. I'm just telling you straight up... this is BS. A lot of people have Cpt.Trips on ignore for wearing out his welcome with this BS and attacking me for trying to add the numbers..which he's trying to skim. Same with RichardWoodMarks. Sooner or later they will drag you into the pit too, Dolby wised up. You're just being used at your expense.
if that game was so great, you would NOT be here selling it. You wouldn't need to insult your friends by trying to steal the population of THEIR favorite game, which would kill it.
Now that said,... this will not change. You all will ignore this and push your sim bible in everyone's face at every opportunity. Knock knock knock. Because we have 2 seriously obsessed former players, so obsessed it's getting kinda like an obvious illness. These are the guys who call a female 100 times after she said no 100 times. Just keep pecking at the egg hoping someday the shell with crack in their favor. Intelligent or not. It's freak show of escaped circus geeks.
Heres the psychological convincing process used.... point out the games flaws, followed by how wonderful Pretty Manikins is. The more the name of Pretty Manikins is spoken the more likely a new reader will see it. And by ALL MEANS POSSIBLE ON EARTH, avoid admitting Pretty Manikins has serious flaws and rated very low on fun factor. It's like a used car salesman who refuses to let you look under the hood.That used car salesman,.. always has a smile n his face,.. just like you guys.
You do not hope AH increases numbers, you want it dead to get the migration. And if it does get the numbers, you'll be here trying to skim them off the top.
I guess this would all be a lot more convincing to us, if we were 10 yr olds and have zero wisdom on life's characters and deceit mechanisms.
I'm mean? I didn't bring this, what is REALLY a discussion about Pretty Manikins, to another game's forums. Ya get what ya ask for. I feel like I'm explaining this to children. I thought Trips was 15 yrs old until I saw he was 60. Some people avoided maturity their whole life and very successful at it.
A grown mature adult with a IQ above 60, would know, this is not the coolest thing to do. But please, continue with your slow paced brain washing. It's humorous to me to think I/we cant see it.
DS Trips was even continued to mention Pretty Manikins in a scenario announcement,.. so lets get the hell off the innocent ACT. If you insist on acting like kids, I'm glad to treat you like one.
What "logs" do you have access to?
We're now at 186 in all arenas an 168 in the MA., 95-115 in the MotA scenario, th elargest turn-out in 5-7 years.,... I hope the decrease in DCS numbers by 2000 is temporary.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:29:33 AM
Your honest approach it toast
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:31:15 AM
Your credibility and validity is gone, by your own actions
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:33:15 AM
Time ket the cat out of the bag, you’re here to skim players, no other reason.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:36:22 AM
MotA Biggest scenario tirn-out in 5-7 years. While you lose numbers in winter we gain. We gained in summer while you lost in summer
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 11:08:35 AM
Interesting take on the current state of WWII in DCS vs other sims. Very interested to see what happens with the PTO. The AI Zero is already confirmed with hints that a full fidelity one is also in the works.
I wish DCS was not the only sim out there developing WWII combat aviation.
Well, Isn’t IL2 slating a PTO after their Korea?
Combat Pilot is showing forward movement. It would usually be too early for me to put any weight on that, but Williams has a long track record of success.
I think I agree with most of what Dr. Jeebus said. DCS WWII is kinda of a shockingly beautiful hot mess. ;)
Despite what certain toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens spew, I have never suggested the DCS would come close to replacing what players get from AH currently. I’m not sure it ever will. It is a different kind of beast. I’ve been very consistent about that. That is what I have communicated to various AH “luminaries” both in public threads and when contacted privately about the potential for DCS.
I’m currently enjoying the DCS warbirds simply for the love of the aircraft. The love of deeply learning about the aircraft at a level I had never bothered with before. It is like I am Google-rich and setup a hangar and bought a slew of refurbished warbirds for my enjoyment. They are literally as close to museum-grade exact digital replicas of the historical planes as can be produced with the current state of technology. That is a completely different experience than what you get with AH. Apples and Oranges.
And I didn’t even think I was interested in flying fixed-wing again. I went to DCS for the Helo. But after trying the Spit...wow. Right now, I’m just having fun cross-country flying around southern England, dead-reckoning to various fields in various conditions. Trying to take off and land in one piece. Lol.
If AH shut down the servers tomorrow, DCS isn’t what I’d recommend to people here knowing what they are looking for. IL2 would be a closer fit and I’m saying that as someone who doesn’t fly the IL2 modules I own. SO I am not shilling for anyone. I enjoy discussing flightsims and their pros and cons and their different business model approaches and the interesting strategic choices they make and which ones are choosing wisely and which ones might not be. Like people would discuss a football conference or a baseball league.
I’m currently having some interesting discussions with a IL2 1946 influencer exchanging information about 1946 vs AH. We will be posting our two evaluations at some point to compare and contrast. I’m not doing that for my benefit. I fly neither 1946 nor AH at this point and was honest about that up front. But I think both communities could benefit from learning more about the other because they are a lot more similar to each other than either is to IL2 GB or DCS.
I am not religious, nor do I join cults. To me flightsims are merely products offered for sale. They are toasters.
Looking on the bright side, there was a time when everyone said that flightsims were dead. You could tell because for a while it was getting really hard to find a choice quality sticks and pedals. Now look at all the choices you can find on the market now. Really nice stuff. The rumors of the death of flightsims has been greatly exaggerated. That is heartening. ;)
I think DCS could make a serious dent in the WWII market if it cared to. It has the money and the momentum. It just hasn’t been on their radar. They have been busy dominating modern and rotary. The WWII stuff they have, is largely by accident taking it over from a failed indy project. That’s why it looks like a half finished mess lacking focus. PTO might be different. That feels to me like a true DCS business strategy mainly to block Combat Pilot from having an completely unfulfilled niche to get a foothold in because they have signaled they are going to compete against DCS in the high fidelity realm. Competition often makes companies perform better than they would without the threat.
If AH, came out with a new version with meaningful new changes, I’d open back up an account for a while and check it out. I keep tabs looking for signs of life and enjoy discussing inside baseball.
[BTW Dadtallica, if you are reading this I might ask to ping you privately to ask some questions about 1946 as you have appearently spent some time playing it. I'd like to review some stuff with you before posting to make sure I'm not making factual errors.]
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 12:45:34 PM
Peaks and valleys, everything in life. We can only tell from who post on the bbs about returning. Only a small % uses the bbs,.. that said, about 95% who do are in fact return players. And it's not just boomers. Some, who started as teenagers started a family, and now the kids are old enough to not need as much attention (40s-50s). I've seen this story several times. I wouldn't call the other retirees, most are not close to that age, although some are. It's a mixed crowd minus the very young. We are gaining seasoned players, not many newbies. But again, I can't see subs, and the bbs isn't a full picture. All they need is to get back muscle memory and their off killing. I see names in-game that I haven't seen before.
The most common comment I've seen on YT vids and some forums, is how much fun they had in it years ago. 2nd in line is, rude crowd, insults, politics, bashing...they aren't/weren't wrong. A lot gave me crap over attempting to clean up the bbs to draw more in... frankly, I still hate this thread, it's ridiculous to place it here. Like it or not there is skimming happening, this is just another vehicle, it's not rocket science. It insults intelligence to say it's anything else. but the boards and 200 have cleaned up, and we got results.
FSO, is easy to explain, despite your negative notes to the world. People are enjoying the numbers up in the MA, they don't want to leave what they've been waiting for,.. it's new. They get involved in a large battle and want to stay in it. I've seen mentions.
Once this style of playing is in your blood, not a person who left will say it was bad memories and crappy game. You yourselves, have not completely shaken it, because here you are. The hook is still in you. People don't break up with GFs and then hang in front of their house everyday showing off their new girl to the ex-gf. ok? so lets cut the insults to intelligence with "we're just buds talkin". i guess if I was a monkey missing half my brain and the other half consumed with worms I might believe you guys. People have hinted it's not cool and you go against them. I don't want any "I'm sorry, I don't mean to offended anyone..." nonsense. You're doing it by going against their wishes. of course, I can imagine calling someone friend while they put their arms around their wife, grabs her boob and say "hey bro,.. we're just talking." All you guys do is point out flaws in AH, and praise Pretty Manikins as the savior of all sims on AH bbs. but when we point out many flaws of Pretty Manikins, you stick fingers in ears and scream "I can't HERE you!". So really, this thread is here to skim, nothing more, nothing less. You all accelerated it during a successful scenario. This biggest turn out in 5-7 years, so scrub the FSO comment. When you go against wishes of old vets,.. you crossed the white line, and basically spit on them/us. I charge for kleenex. Don't think it's appreciated in the least bit. The only ones who approve it are those who also fly Pretty Manikins. I'm not angry, you know what I look like when I am, if you don't you will. I'm just telling you straight up... this is BS. A lot of people have Cpt.Trips on ignore for wearing out his welcome with this BS and attacking me for trying to add the numbers..which he's trying to skim. Same with RichardWoodMarks. Sooner or later they will drag you into the pit too, Dolby wised up. You're just being used at your expense.
if that game was so great, you would NOT be here selling it. You wouldn't need to insult your friends by trying to steal the population of THEIR favorite game, which would kill it.
Now that said,... this will not change. You all will ignore this and push your sim bible in everyone's face at every opportunity. Knock knock knock. Because we have 2 seriously obsessed former players, so obsessed it's getting kinda like an obvious illness. These are the guys who call a female 100 times after she said no 100 times. Just keep pecking at the egg hoping someday the shell with crack in their favor. Intelligent or not. It's freak show of escaped circus geeks.
Heres the psychological convincing process used.... point out the games flaws, followed by how wonderful Pretty Manikins is. The more the name of Pretty Manikins is spoken the more likely a new reader will see it. And by ALL MEANS POSSIBLE ON EARTH, avoid admitting Pretty Manikins has serious flaws and rated very low on fun factor. It's like a used car salesman who refuses to let you look under the hood.That used car salesman,.. always has a smile n his face,.. just like you guys.
You do not hope AH increases numbers, you want it dead to get the migration. And if it does get the numbers, you'll be here trying to skim them off the top.
I guess this would all be a lot more convincing to us, if we were 10 yr olds and have zero wisdom on life's characters and deceit mechanisms.
I'm mean? I didn't bring this, what is REALLY a discussion about Pretty Manikins, to another game's forums. Ya get what ya ask for. I feel like I'm explaining this to children. I thought Trips was 15 yrs old until I saw he was 60. Some people avoided maturity their whole life and very successful at it.
A grown mature adult with a IQ above 60, would know, this is not the coolest thing to do. But please, continue with your slow paced brain washing. It's humorous to me to think I/we cant see it.
DS Trips was even continued to mention Pretty Manikins in a scenario announcement,.. so lets get the hell off the innocent ACT. If you insist on acting like kids, I'm glad to treat you like one.
What "logs" do you have access to?
We're now at 186 in all arenas an 168 in the MA., 95-115 in the MotA scenario, th elargest turn-out in 5-7 years.,... I hope the decrease in DCS numbers by 2000 is temporary.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 15, 2024, 01:22:40 PM
Looking on the bright side, there was a time when everyone said that flightsims were dead. You could tell because for a while it was getting really hard to find a choice quality sticks and pedals. Now look at all the choices you can find on the market now. Really nice stuff. The rumors of the death of flightsims has been greatly exaggerated. That is heartening. ;)
We seem to be in a revival cycle for flight sims. Glad to see products like this to further the hobby:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 01:34:19 PM
We seem to be in a revival cycle for flight sims. Glad to see products like this to further the hobby:
I think WT showed there was still an overall mass market for flying. IL2\MSFS showed there is a sizable serious market. DCS showed there was a high end market willing to $pend money on top quality.
Hardware guys responded to the market signals.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 01:35:33 PM
While Drano made valid points, there are a LOT more people opposing this thread of a handful of people. You made your choice and excuses while bashing AH and insulting people still putting a lot of work on it by its existence. Several who go back to the beginning of AW. We’re all starting to get pissed that this is allowed to counter our work. You gave up, cool your choice. No one else who made that same choice is being so rude to do this. Its 3-4 people vs 100s. This thread is pure disrespectful. This is low class. I would move to Pretty Mankins just because of it.
RichardWoodDweeb made a stupid remark about how player play here and hide and don’t in Pretty Manilins, well thats because there are only two playing Pretty Manakins. If you have to search so hard for s fight, yep it will be different. Its BORING.if that POS had any fun at all they wouldn’t have time to be here. They are more desperate than us who are preserving AH. Most boring videos I’ve ever watched.
This us a desperate act to preserve their investment at our expense. Drano’s point are separate from the fact this thread is stupid.
They are here because they are losing numbers, no fights to be had while our numbers started rising in summer.
And because this is disrespectful of the people pouring there heart into AH, I will continue to pummel this thread. This is our choice, not yours, move on to your choice. More don’t want this hete than the former players who do. Trips has zero class, which is why he’ brought others in here because most have him on ignore and not hearing his low life bs. That said, people who tweak settings provided to them is NOT. A coder, it was mocking HT with nonsense.
If there was a vote on this thread it would be hone in minutes. Its time for HT to step up and help us help him and his income. We’re getting really irritated this is allowed, when politics isn’t. Same excuse to block politics is the same reason thus should be shut down. Resoect the people helping over these very few ripping us down.
Whats more important? People preserving his game and income, or former players tearing it down? Are people preserving the game least important?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 01:49:20 PM
I dont do Scenarios or FSO but the first frame of the last 3 FSOs have had 75-90 players. The "Masters of the Air" scenario that just started this last weekend had over 115 players and was well received from what I hear. Are these numbers worst than before? I dont know but I hear they are still having fun.
As for the MA, with the new maps we get every few months it seems to stimulate activity in the arena. Sure there is still the number inbalance to deal with, and the Bish horde rolling bases in the morning US eastern time, but the US prime time has shades of the old days with some good fights as well as base taking action. GVs get plenty of action for the most part, and buffs get to bomb stuff.
If a new player comes in and is willing to ask for some help I couldnt see why they wouldnt want to stay. The learning curve is the biggest issue here. They see all the action going on and cant get into the fight for one reason or another due to inexperience.
All true, but the scrolled your reply
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 02:20:43 PM
And what is wrong with that as long as there is plenty of many different types of action?
You can have all the eye candy in the world, hell it could look like real life. If your flying around for a half hour and don't see/engage an opponent and are thinking of RTB, wheres the fun in that?
Yup
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 02:27:04 PM
What’s even funnier is former players that are so disgusted with AH and its current state, yet they won’t go away. It’s the same people that have to comment containing their unwanted input on social media instead of just scrolling on by.
It seems like the only reason they’re here is to talk negatively about AH. It’s obvious their “friends” are elsewhere. So why stay?
Yep, totally agree
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 02:31:36 PM
Interesting take on the current state of WWII in DCS vs other sims. Very interested to see what happens with the PTO. The AI Zero is already confirmed with hints that a full fidelity one is also in the works.
I wish DCS was not the only sim out there developing WWII combat aviation.
I watched the video and listened to the speaker. He may be right about the cost being the big hurdle to DCS WWII, but if you read the comments it sounds more to me that people are just bored with it. He mentioned it himself saying how he gets tired of flying over Normandie and shooting at the same planes all the time.
Players are suggesting more plane types even if it means less fidelity (active cockpit controls, switches and such) but that brings in the "realistic" crowd saying they dont think its fair that they are working hard in a cockpit while fighting and their opponent isnt because they are flying a plane with out the cockpit switches and such.
Also from watching the video it seems the guy doing the flying is horrible at fighting, or is it just that hard to keep a plane in the air. At one point he had a nice over shoot setup and all he had to do was chop his throttles add a bit of rudder and saw that guy in half. Thats another thing, do the bullets not work in there of was his aim that bad?
Also reading the comments and by what he said Aces High wasnt mentioned when comparing games, well one guys mentioned it in passing saying he had played it for years and was now flying DCS because he want to get as close to flying a WWII plane as he could and he believed that DSC had that. Is AH that unknown or just looked down on that much to less than even WarThunder?
Also by reading the comments you get the impression that these players are NOT looking for a fight. They spend hours of practice learning start up procedures, taxing, take-off, maneuvers, landing and returning to a hanging, and seem to be content with this. Once they "master" a module they run missions that either they make, or a server has loaded up (one guy was complaining that one server had the same 10 missions running over and over) where they go after AI targets. Even in the video the guy flying was running away from an enemy and all he did was some minor avoidance trying to avoid bullets until he lost enough parts to crash. No fight at all, just run away. Heaven forbid you push the plane to try to get the guy out of sync and go for an over shoot, barrel roll or something, it must be against a rule.
And for their so-called realistic sim, I have never seem a video from DSC where the players wasnt always zooming in as they scanned the skies and I know that doesnt work in the real world because I always try it when looking at the signs on the highway.
To me it looks like DCS is full of players that want pretty video, switches they can poke at (but never feel) and the satisfaction of beating AI gunners. The more I watch, the more I know it isnt for me, its just too boring, like many of their own players said. I'd rather chase down a set of B17s with a 109 and try my luck, and skill against another player or turn fight at low alts in a zero against real players in F6fs and F4us, dodging ack from a CV or BB group. Divebombing real players in tanks, ostys and wirbles trying to not only take a base but actively trying to shoot me out of the sky.
Its a shame, either the players over at DSC dont want an active battle like these, or they just dont know about them.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 03:59:43 PM
Other players (DCS, IL2 GB, WT) largely don't know about AH. And if they did, I don't think the graphics, or fidelity would be acceptable to them. (I think the AH FM separate from system management could give DCS a more reasonable competition. DCS still has a nicer feel to me, but that may be graphics or something fooling me.) But the 30 yo guy I've been talking to, never heard of AH or Warbirds or Air Warrior. He was in diapers when AH went beta.
Put your theory to the test. reddit.com/r/hoggit/ (http://reddit.com/r/hoggit/) It was originally a DCS centric forum, but they are open to discussing other sims. MSFS and IL2 and BMS get discussed there regularly. Post your questions there and get answers direct from the people you are referring to. If your questions are honest and you show you really want to understand their POV and\or just want them to give the free trial a try, then I don't think you would run into problems. If your attitude is that AH is better than everything in every possible way that matters, then you will probably get pushback as being unserious. But go make your case. The kind of people you are referring to in the comments will be posting and reading there.
That is what I am trying to do with the 1946 folks. Trying to have an honest discussion and going out of my way to try a game I don't have plans of playing because I want to honestly understand what we are discussing and how the compare and contrast. In return I'm asking a couple of them to at least give the two week trial a try so we can compare notes and see if we can find agreement. Of course I am not a suggesting zero sum. I see no reason anyone should give up 1946 to try AH and visa versa, but they are so similar in so many ways, I think there is a much better chance and some of them adding AH to their library than a DCS or IL2 BG player. 1946 is just the culmination of the legacy IL2 that started in 2001 so it is from the same general gaming epoch as AH and shares a lot of the same style. I think there could be very beneficial cross pollination there and they seemed pretty curious.
The hurdle I'm going to have with the 1946 folks is that they got their game for ~$10 and there are player patches enhancing it. I paid $4.99 for my copy. $15\mo is a hard sell, so all I'm suggesting is try the two week trial. I think they owe it to themselves because because their MP is weak and AH would seem very similar but even 100 players a night would be a dream come true for them. I can suggest that to them with a straight face. To at least give the trial a try and evaluate it for themselves and I am honestly interested in their impressions.
To be clear, the base game is well, like AH 1. It as great in its time but doesn't hold up now. But it was been extensively patch and fully patched, IMHO is pretty close to AH III. So fully patched, I think it is a reasonable comparison.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 04:07:48 PM
I watched the video and listened to the speaker. He may be right about the cost being the big hurdle to DCS WWII, but if you read the comments it sounds more to me that people are just bored with it. He mentioned it himself saying how he gets tired of flying over Normandie and shooting at the same planes all the time.
It's interesting how people can all find a video or info to support a position and assume that everybody else thinks the same as they do.
For example: I've heard it stated many times that "IL2 servers are empty" Someone who plays AH3 during peak times logging into IL2 at the same time would say this is true. However, somebody logging into to AH3 during IL2s peak times would think the same thing about AH3.
It seems to me to come down to blue team/red team and people will find any info that will support what I already believe.
My first interest in the WWII sims started with Microprose Battle of Britain an SWOTL. Compared to those days it seems to me we are blessed with much more WWII content and most of it is multiplayer and supports VR. Just off the top of my head some of the multi-player sims with WWII flight sim content. AH3 Warbirds WWII online IL2 1946 CloD IL2 BoX World of warplanes DCS Warthunder Linux Air Combat
And now that new companies are starting to make quality flight gear and so many VR options it seems to me that we might look back at this time as the golden age. Who knows.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 15, 2024, 04:14:22 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 15, 2024, 04:39:43 PM
My guess is the majority of IL2 and DCS players have never tried AH so their opinion would not matter
I think AH has the most dedicated subscribers in any online ww2 flight sim to date
Just paying the monthly subscription proves that out .. it's the only one that has it.
Even those that now play the other two, I can't see how you still can't get $15 for a month worth of entertainment from a night or two (or three or a masters of the air event) in AH with your old flying mates and arch enemies
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 04:41:04 PM
I want the most realistic combat sim. I want WWII planes, choppers, and jets. I don't care who makes it. I don't care if there is more than one maker. If I could speak for others I would. Trying to do that would be just silly though.
I want a sim first. Painfully realistic. A game second.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 04:44:43 PM
My wife tells me everyone is not like me. I know she is right. But they should be. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 04:45:41 PM
And I want it now.
And all.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 05:00:53 PM
DCS IS A POOR COMBAT SIM https://flyandwire.com/2022/12/06/thoughts-dcs-a-poor-combat-sim/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 05:03:03 PM
You could always go make the case on why they should. That is what I'm doing with the 1946 folks.
Could you make a compelling argument?
Not one that many if any much younger than I would grasp...if the desire to attempt that existed in me :old:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 05:10:25 PM
I've said, and I stick by it, that interest in WWII is waning simply because time is passing. Sure, some still do refight the American Civil War. But not as many as before.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 05:13:41 PM
DCS lack of immersion https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/14kjs75/anyone_else_feel_a_lack_of_immersion_in_dcs/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 05:16:39 PM
DCS a poor combat sim https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/yzb8kn/f14_jamming_and_why_dcs_is_a_poor_combat_sim/#
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 05:21:51 PM
Guess I wasn't clear. That wasn't an attack on you or the film.(I didn't even watch the film)
I was just stating that there are some people who will go to great lengths to find something to support they claim. My example was was that if I'm European and long into AH3 server at 3am EST that I will find that there is nobody there so I will be able to draw the conclusion that AH3 is dead.
By the same token people who log into IL2 servers during AH3 prime time will find that the numbers are low as most people have already left for the day.
It would be nice if people didn't feel that they had to be so defensive about whatever sim they choose and could look at stuff with an open mind.
Hope I was more clear that time :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 05:26:33 PM
By the same token people who log into IL2 servers during AH3 prime time will find that the numbers are low as most people have already left for the day.
I got the impression from my 1946 contact that it was more Euro time centric population. That's why he was impressed when I told him AH regularly gets 100 US Prime time.
It would be nice if people didn't feel that they had to be so defensive about whatever sim they choose and could look at stuff with an open mind.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I was pleasantly surprised at how open minded the 1946 guy was. His view was that if he was going to go around making the case that 1946 was superior in many ways to what was out there, he wanted to try anything that came close so he was making a rational argument. That was refreshing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 05:28:19 PM
post your questions there and get answers direct from the people you are referring to. If your questions are honest and you show you really want to understand their POV and\or just want them to give the free trial a try, then I don't think you would run into problems. If your attitude is that AH is better than everything in every possible way that matters, then you will probably get pushback as being unserious.
This is what I was talking about in my last post. It would be nice to be able to have a conversation without people acting that a mention of any other flight sim is an attack on their sim of choice :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 05:29:46 PM
I got the impression from my 1946 contact that it was more Euro time centric population. That's why he was impressed when I told him AH regularly gets 100 US Prime time.
In my experience the IL2 servers numbers peak during the US daytime and fall off by evening.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 05:36:04 PM
I was pleasantly surprised at how open minded the 1946 guy was. His view was that if he was going to go around making the case that 1946 was superior in many ways to what was out there, he wanted to try anything that came close so he was making a rational argument. That was refreshing.
That was the norm pre-2012 :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on February 15, 2024, 06:57:47 PM
Yeah. That is a good way of doing it. I bought too many of my modules full price because:
1. I didn't realize how often they had big sales. 2. I want immediate gratification. ;) I'm trying to break that expensive habit. ;)
Do you like the helicopters? I love the huey. I really like the Mi-8 too but haven't flown it as much yet. I just wish I knew what that Russian chick was screaming at me all the time. For me, helicopters were like learning to fly all over again, but strangely, I think they somehow improved my fixed wing flying. I never thought just picking up and hauling sling loads would be fun.
Just completing a flight without VRS felt like I had just landed 5 kills. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 09:06:20 PM
I remember watching helo pilots during unrep in heavy seas where they had to time grabbing the hook to the movement of the ship as the deck went up and down in the swells and admiring their skills. If they got too low when the ship was in a trough the deck would reach up and smash the helo. I do remember that once they got the hook they would lift at full tilt!
Also another note that may or not be of interest to helo pilots. When they were doing a SAR and picking somebody up from the water. The guy in the door that wasn't on the sling was actually flying the chopper with a stick located by the door. This is because the pilot had no viability on the guy in the water and could not react in a timely manner over ICS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 09:39:29 PM
Also another note that may or not be of interest to helo pilots. When they were doing a SAR and picking somebody up from the water. The guy in the door that wasn't on the sling was actually flying the chopper with a stick located by the door. This is because the pilot had no viability on the guy in the water and could not react in a timely manner over ICS.
That would be a cool mod\feature. In DCS you can do a hover SAR pickup but it is tricky because it is hard to see underneath you clearly. In some places you have no choice because nowhere good to land close by.
What airframe was that?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:00:28 PM
While Drano made valid points, there are a LOT more people opposing this thread of a handful of people. You made your choice and excuses while bashing AH and insulting people still putting a lot of work on it by its existence. Several who go back to the beginning of AW. We’re all starting to get pissed that this is allowed to counter our work. You gave up, cool your choice. No one else who made that same choice is being so rude to do this. Its 3-4 people vs 100s. This thread is pure disrespectful. This is low class. I would move to Pretty Mankins just because of it.
RichardWoodDweeb made a stupid remark about how player play here and hide and don’t in Pretty Manilins, well thats because there are only two playing Pretty Manakins. If you have to search so hard for s fight, yep it will be different. Its BORING.if that POS had any fun at all they wouldn’t have time to be here. They are more desperate than us who are preserving AH. Most boring videos I’ve ever watched.
This us a desperate act to preserve their investment at our expense. Drano’s point are separate from the fact this thread is stupid.
They are here because they are losing numbers, no fights to be had while our numbers started rising in summer.
And because this is disrespectful of the people pouring there heart into AH, I will continue to pummel this thread. This is our choice, not yours, move on to your choice. More don’t want this hete than the former players who do. Trips has zero class, which is why he’ brought others in here because most have him on ignore and not hearing his low life bs. That said, people who tweak settings provided to them is NOT. A coder, it was mocking HT with nonsense.
If there was a vote on this thread it would be hone in minutes. Its time for HT to step up and help us help him and his income. We’re getting really irritated this is allowed, when politics isn’t. Same excuse to block politics is the same reason thus should be shut down. Resoect the people helping over these very few ripping us down.
Whats more important? People preserving his game and income, or former players tearing it down? Are people preserving the game least important?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 15, 2024, 10:07:48 PM
Consider how you guys feel about multiplayer online play vs. single player offline play.
If folks were debating some wrinkle of offline single-player play, you would wonder why they care at all and aren't playing multiplayer. Because multiplayer is a whole higher realm of play and enjoyment compared to offline single player.
That's the same distance I feel between scenarios and regular multiplayer.
But when I talk to people who have never tried scenarios, it often feels like this. "Hey, how about for dinner an aged prime ribeye steak, grilled asparagus, baked potato smothered in butter, Caesar salad, a glass of wine, Gulf shrimp cocktail, and for desert fresh-baked apple pie and homemade ice cream?" And the reply is, "Nah. I like my McDonald's cheeseburger." Me: "OK, but how about just trying it?" Reply: "Nah. I'm good."
It mystifies me because, to me, scenarios are the greatest, and no other type of game play comes even remotely close.
Single player is w white glove sim. They will never have scenarios like you guys do. They will never have scenarios period, because they really don't have multiplayer,.. what is the most they can get n a server 30-50? which is WAY beyond comical when they try to con us into Pretty Manikins with our lower numbers. Lower numbers? One our worst day we stomp them with multiplayer numbers. Its a white glove sim,.. ya never get your hands dirty playing with cockpit button... most of which you don't even need or use ina fight,.. of course, they don't have many fights,.. they have to look very hard to find one.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:11:30 PM
LOL!! who really cares about engine management? Do you play a fighter game, or an engine management game?
I have always played AW, and Warbirds, and AH to FIGHT other players in the air. The war aspect is an added plus, but for all the time Ive played it was to pit my puny skills against other players.
If you want to flip switches, monitor gauges, temps, pressures INSTEAD of flying against live opponents..... well get yourself a box game and play with yourself.
At least here we still have players to fight.
They seem to think we are impressed with pretty bordom
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:23:32 PM
My feeling, having flown air combats in SIAI-Marchetti SF.260's at Air Combat USA, is that it was highly similar to dogfights in AH.
When I flew my combats there, I did the full range of things we do in Aces High: loops, split s'es, Immelmanns, vertical persuits, high and low yo yo's, scissors, rolling scissors, lag persuit, lead moves, energy moves, angles moves, with up to 6 g's. There were some fights that ended just like in AH, where we fought to a stalemate-ish stallfight, chugging around on the hard deck with flaps out, seeing who could squeeze the last drop of turn performance out.
In terms of feel, it felt very much like P-51's in the dueling arena. Similar handling feel (in terms of roll response, pitch response, etc.). Similar way the fights went.
I didn't have to put much attention on engine control (other than pulling back some on throttle in prolonged vertical dives). Wake turbulence was not a meaningful factor in any fights.
There was one aspect of aerodynamics that did matter in these Air Combat fights that might not in AH: flow separation as you approach stall. In real life, as you pull enough g's to get near stall, you start to get flow separation off the tops of the wings. In AH, you do see this from the screen shake and buffeting noise. In the Marchettis, you got that buffeting. But in real life, drag goes up more during buffet than outside of buffet. So in the fights, it was important to pull g's only up to but not into buffet (unless you want big drag, for causing an overshoot, or something like that). In AH, we often pull right into that buffet closer to the edge of the stall. I haven't noticed higher drag in buffet than out of buffet. That doesn't mean it isn't in AH -- it would not be hugely noticeable. But if there was a difference between Air Combat and AH, I would say it is where you choose to ride the edge of g's: at edge of buffet or at edge of stall. It wouldn't change the characteristics of the fight either way. Riding the edge of buffeting is exactly the same as riding the edge of stall -- you are just picking one or the other to ride the edge of. So this one is just a very fine, picky detail.
I've read a huge number of first-person accounts of WWII air combat. Sometimes, a pilot does tell you that things done with prop pitch, mixture, throttle setting, etc. But often, those were things that a pilot did when first entering combat from a cruising configuration. Then, once in fighting configuration, they aren't doing much other than manipulating throttle as desired for combat, usually keeping it on full, less commonly chopping it to slow down. Cowl flaps were usually staying closed. Oil-cooler flaps are usually on auto or in some state that don't require manipulation during a fight. Mixture in auto rich. Prop in max rpm. Mixture and prop are fiddled with in cruise. The other various flaps are usually fiddled with in landing and takeoff.
As a result, I'm suspecting that fiddling with engine knobs isn't adding accuracy of the air-combat portion of flight.
These guys are impressed with bells and whistles and sitting on a tarmac,... waiting, and waiting,..... to not find a fight.
Reminds me of glass globes filled with water and cute colored metal flakes. YA turn it upside down and watch the pretty colors slowly drift to the bottom.... at first it's cute,... then you do it again,.. not so much,.. then again and it strikes you,.. there's simply nothing else I can do with it. Ya set it down, walk away,.. it gathers dust and you remember it,.. turn it up side down again,... and set it down and walk away, usually to never be touched again, except dusting.
They WAY over sell this game,.. and the people expecting to find beautiful fights there, and are going be twice as upset after investment. They actually do more harm to the game, because it forces us to put it's faults on full display. But, stupid people do stupid things,.... it makes them feel intelligent.
It's eye candy,.. nothing more, nothing less. Same as Penthouse, stunning things you'll never touch.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:31:43 PM
Again, that is just eye candy. I would much rather fly AH because in the 10+ minutes of the video ( he made a number of time jumps for the video) I could have been shot down by any number of guys. The explosions looked great but you needed to use "other views" to see them. From the angles he used it looked like he was going to catch damage from the explosions as he was way too close. Poor damage model. He didnt want to go back for guns, yet I never heard him getting hit on the two passes he did. That doesnt happen very often in AH.
And on top of it all, all he had to worry about was ack and his own poor flying (would have loved to see the guys by the jeep run like hell when he went by off the runway), no action.
People talk about the number slowly dropping in AH. I'll try DCS again once their numbers get to 100 on a server.
This still makes me laugh. They shame us for low numbers when they can't come close to ours in one arena....
Somehow they think 30-50 is a much higher numbers than 120-168. I've seen fungus spewing gas bubbles from the bottom of a sewage ditch that had more intelligence. Astounding
Which makes us point this fact out when they are trying to use it as some vast leverage point. Lets think about that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 15, 2024, 10:35:43 PM
Space Wars was the first video game I played. In the 1970's. It was mind blowing. Games got better and better over the decades becoming less like games and more like simulations of real like. I'll take real life over a simulation but the real WWII is long over and I'm too old to fly jets for the USAF now. Simulations are still entertaining. I also like Texas Hold 'Em and craps at the Casino. Those are games.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 15, 2024, 10:50:30 PM
A MUST WATCH
DCS: A Beautiful Mess. Its History, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 15, 2024, 11:12:23 PM
DCS certainly has it's problems like any complex sim.
Just as I always suggest anyone I talk to about AH to download the free client and do some practice and at least take advantage of the two week trial, I would also suggest people download the free DCS World client and play around with the two free planes (P-51 trainer and SU-25) and go ahead and download some of the nicer free mod airframes like VSN's F4 and A4, and the excellent free blackhawk mod to get a taste of the helo. There is also a little bird free mod aircraft that I've been meaning to try.
In both cases, there is a bunch you can play with before deciding if there is anything you want to pay for. I don't see how anyone can have a problem with trying out some free stuff if you are into simming.
Unless you are in a cult.
DCS World client is free.
VSN F4 is free:
VSN A4 free:
Blackhawk free:
Little Bird AH-6J free:
Free OV-10 mod:
Free A-29 mod:
Free C-130 mod:
*The only ones I have personally tried is the F4 and blackhawk. I was impressed with both.
You can certainly spend a lot of money in DCS, but you can also get quite a lot free. Go make your own evaluation.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 16, 2024, 12:20:18 AM
If you're talking about a cult, I've noticed that since I've stopped reading any posts from Animl-AW that I haven't felt the cult thing so much. It's almost like there's a logical conversation going on.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on February 16, 2024, 04:33:43 AM
Space Wars was the first video game I played. In the 1970's. It was mind blowing. Games got better and better over the decades becoming less like games and more like simulations of real like.
I remember when playing Lucasarts "Battle of Britain" for the first time and was like "Wow, that really looks like a" *squint eyes* ".... uhm... Do-17! Amazing!" Or how exciting it was when 'Aces over Europe' went to 640x480 :old:
Do you like the helicopters? I love the huey. I really like the Mi-8 too but haven't flown it as much yet. I just wish I knew what that Russian chick was screaming at me all the time. For me, helicopters were like learning to fly all over again, but strangely, I think they somehow improved my fixed wing flying. I never thought just picking up and hauling sling loads would be fun.
I never really got into the Black Shark, for two reasons: One is ADHD related, I really have trouble learning the more complex stuff (especially as I tend to do prolonged breaks from the game and can basically start again from scratch after like 5 months. This changed with the Huey, as it's not that overloaded with systems.
The other issue was my equipment, only when I upgraded my stick to a VKB Gladiator I was finally able to control the choppers in any meaningful way, the T16000 M was way too imprecise for that.
But now the Huey and Hip have become really fun, it's basically all I fly in DCS now. Even though my 'landings' still suck :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 16, 2024, 05:11:24 AM
I want a sim first. Painfully realistic. A game second.
Simple as that. But somehow, there are those who cannot accept different tastes and/or opinions. Just like those who claim to be the most tolerant and go berserk immediately someone disagrees in what ever subject.
I never really got into the Black Shark, for two reasons: One is ADHD related, I really have trouble learning the more complex stuff (especially as I tend to do prolonged breaks from the game and can basically start again from scratch after like 5 months. This changed with the Huey, as it's not that overloaded with systems.
I hear ya. I have a appreciation of the Apache, but the complexity was starting to make it feel like ...work! And I realized I was sitting at my desk staring at a computer screen looking at a character sitting in a cockpit staring at a computer screen. ;) That's when I grabbed the spit and started trying that. I thought I was done with fixed wing but now I'm enjoying them again. I will definitely be flying the Apache some more, but having some analog options is a nice respite.
The other issue was my equipment, only when I upgraded my stick to a VKB Gladiator I was finally able to control the choppers in any meaningful way, the T16000 M was way too imprecise for that.
Exactly. I went from the T16000 to the Gladiator as well and it was night and day. I had never realized had a problem with it until I started helicopters. They require a whole different level of fine control.
Then I upgrade to the VBK T-Rudders for same reason. I had long been satisfied with my CH pedals flying fixed wings, but was dissatisfied with them for helicopters. No amount of WD-40 was sufficient to get them as smooth as I wanted. ;)
I also swapped out my TWCS throttle too. As I'm sure you found out fine control of the collective is way more important than a throttle in a warbird. The TWCS was just too grabby for me. Too much sticktion. And that was even after I ordered a 3rd party upgrade to replace the rail bearings. It was better but not quite what I needed.
I had initially switch to one of these: (https://snpi.dell.com/snp/images/products/large/en-us~A9578654_V1/A9578654_V1.jpg)
Which was cheaper than my TWCS but worked much better for the collective. I think the lever arm length gave me more leverage so I felt little to no sticktion and the longer throw distance gave me finer resolution.
However Iron is the devil and kept buying nice toys and telling me about them so I was forced to break down and order one of these against my will:
If you're talking about a cult, I've noticed that since I've stopped reading any posts from Animl-AW that I haven't felt the cult thing so much. It's almost like there's a logical conversation going on.
:rofl Sig line :aok
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on February 16, 2024, 06:27:13 AM
I also swapped out my TWCS throttle too. As I'm sure you found out fine control of the collective is way more important than a throttle in a warbird.
It is! But I still have to stick with my X-52pro throttle. The Gladiator was already stretching the budget :uhoh
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 07:17:59 AM
What I see in this thread and who started it is grown adult men who spent their whole life avoiding competent maturity at all cost and have been very successful at it, who sell complete horse crap to the weak minded who eat their own feet, and think its smart. The escape from reality never to return. I’m not one to accept weakness, excuses and severe immaturity. These are the types who play victim in a bar because they got smoked after poling a drunk in the eye, and too stupid to learn anything from it and rinse and repeat like a gold fish in a glass bowl, placing distance is mandatory out of fear its contagious.
That 14 yrs did me righteous.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 16, 2024, 07:55:37 AM
^ You mean all those who fly in some other sim than AH?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 08:04:49 AM
"However Iron is the devil and kept buying nice toys and telling me about them so I was forced to break down and order one of these against my will"
Hold on now. I was fine with my 25 year old ch pro pedals. Then "someone" told me how great their VKB pedals are...
:D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 08:10:12 AM
^ You mean all those who fly in some other sim than AH?
Don’t conflate flying other sims with those you allow to crap in your own yard. Don’t point at me while the people who don’t play other sim are disrespected, while they bring their ither sims where it doesn’t belong. People who call you brother while they crash your party and oee in your grandmas beer. Please keep arrogance in your own house. The invaders should never be pampered. Bring it here IS arrogant immaturity, but please continue to prove stupid, glad itd mow me, I have manners. Don’t play victim with me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 16, 2024, 08:14:03 AM
Animal take a step back for a bit holy moly. Nobody is trying to sell anyone anything here. You don’t have to answer ALL the posts and take ALL the bait.
You very much are being fish hooked daily. Give it a rest.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 16, 2024, 08:20:55 AM
But now the Huey and Hip have become really fun, it's basically all I fly in DCS now. Even though my 'landings' still suck :D
Flying multi-crew in helicopters is still the best. A four man Huey crew is a blast.
I am far from bored flying WWII in DCS (posted that last video as an opposing view), but was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed other types of aircraft.
I wonder if WWII flight sims are going the way of WWI flight sims due to being so far in the past.
I am in hopes "Masters of the Air", development of "Combat Pilot", and DCS PTO will spark a resurgence in WWII interest, but doubt it. There is a new generation of flight sim enthusiasts that are seeing modern fighter jets on the news daily, so that is their bent.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 16, 2024, 08:52:10 AM
It's still not too late to do this: (https://media.tenor.com/M0KWLSWk9ZIAAAAM/throw-frame-order.gif)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 16, 2024, 09:29:11 AM
Animal. Are you OK bud? I mean...you are pretty much the entire post count of this forum recently. Usually with a wall of text rant over everything. You talk about people being adult and not obsessed with a video game. Uhh mirror? Why are you so triggered by this conversation? No one is "shilling" for other games.You really have to stop thinking it's still 2005--when other games for the most part didn't exist yet. There are several reasons this sim is in the state its' in. They've all been explained to you--in adult fashion btw, but you persist in tuning it out and living in the past. This is what this is. People are playing other games. THAT is the biggest reason that AH has the numbers it currently has. There's no coming back. There simply aren't numbers in the market available to make that happen. Flight sims themselves are a tiny tiny niche of the gaming market. And if you aren't "keeping up" you'll become an even smaller niche of that. This is where we are now. The game hasn't kept up. Nothing is changing. Newer stuff is available--cheaper too-- and people are gravitating to that. There's nothing on the horizon that says there's any change or improvement to the game coming. If it did, I'd be glad to be a tester as I had in the past and be happy to do it.
On the whole niche thing. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I'm on Twitch now and then. Usually I'll have something messed up in VR, too big of a pain to fix in the middle of a FSO frame and I'll cut or delete my feed, but that's a me thing. I bring up my Twich app just now. Admittedly, it's morning eastern US time but this is quite typical of every time I look there. Currently there is no one (zero) streaming AH, no one (zero) streaming IL-2, a whopping 2 streaming DCS and 1,500 on MSFS. That one really kills me. People watching someone fly an airbus from JFK to Amsterdam. I don't get that at all. But that's what you see. That's just flight sims! There are tens of thousands people just watching people play FPS games at any time. THAT's where your numbers are. Those people are also making more money streaming than we are working for a living BTW. Crazy town!
That is what that is. You really need to stop thinking you alone are gonna stop the internet or gaming itself. There is no "we". It's just you. HT is the only "we" that matters here and as you've been told before, he checked out years ago while you were gone. Shut down the factory and laid off the workers. Wish it weren't so, but there it is. The writing was on the wall then, you just weren't here to see it. Having been thru the AW thing myself you can't draw a straight line to that situation. AW had devs that were actively supporting the game. They sold to EA who had no intention whatsoever of continuing. They bought the game specifically to remove it from the marketplace and competition for their other games and did exactly that. That's a fact. None of that's happened here. Just enjoy the game while you can and stop agonizing over things you ARE NOT going to change. Other games are gonna happen. No stopping it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 16, 2024, 10:12:48 AM
Just to add where I'm at on this. I started in AW many moons ago and came over to AH with my squad when EA killed it. Been here ever since. Have taken a few breaks here and there but even during those was always active in events. I don't think I ever missed an FSO other than a frame or two, usualy due to wife ack, in all that time until this year when my FSO squad folded. So it's gone with the people I've flown with over the years. They moved on (or passed on sadly) for whatever reasons they had. I'm currently kind of on hiatus from AH. Keeping my sub current but don't currently have the itch. The 80th guys aren't around when I'm on. Only a couple left far as I can tell. Lazer and Shuff. Miss you guys. Numbers in the events have dropped to the point it's just not working for me either. I was CIC when we ran Stalin's 4th the first time. Had a couple of hundred just on my side. Light years away from that now.There was always that but now it's gone too. Still hanging around tho.
I mess with IL-2. Nef talked me into trying it but I held off until they added a P-38--of course! It's a beautiful bird. The engine management thing isn't a big deal with that one even with two engines to deal with. Really not. But it's really how I'd hoped that AH would have evolved into looking like as time went on. I'd always hoped we'd all be flying something that looked more realistic and IL-2 has done that. That's not a deal breaker but for me it's a sign things are changing/evolving for the better. There's better technology, better PCs, better graphics engines. Why not take advantage of that as time goes on? Anyway, I like the game. I've only messed with MP a few times. Didn't like it when I started flying in VR as I kept getting whacked by people I never saw. Now with NeckSafer I can look around as I did with TIR and that's no longer an issue. The servers are small--but so are the maps so they're paired better than AH with the same numbers, a third side and huge maps. There isn't a built-in VOX system and I don't like that. But they use SRS that a lot of people (not enough) use. The people that run the Combat Box server have gone all in with what that program can do, It has bots that can talk back to you giving you things like a callsign or flight callsign. It knows where you are and can direct you with traffic around the airbase or give you a mission and grid to head to. Pretty cool. No icons is something to just get used to. No biggie. Navigation is a challenge on certain maps but you just look for waypoints on the terrain and navigate the old way. It's harder but I'm OK with that. YMMV. And YMMV is what it's all about. I like it, you may not. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I started dabbling with MSFS last year. Talk about real, this one uses real world maps and topography. You're flying over the real world. You can have live weather or inject your own. You can also inject real time air traffic. I have another program for this. Pretty cool. First thing I did was to buy Flying Iron's P-38 which is outstanding. Starting that thing is a challenge as are most warbirds. I snagged their Spit IX, F6F and 109 during a Christmas sale but don't have near the time in them yet. MSFS is a different animal. No combat. No functional weapons either. That's a good thing. There'd be nitwits shooting down 747s on approach to LAX the first day. They're out there! But I see this as more of a sightseeing thing than anything else. I just fly around places I know I'll likely never get a chance to see. I recently bought the A2A Piper Comanche which is a "study level" plane with all the bells and whistles available. They say it's the GA bird to have. So far I'm liking it. This plane will age as you use it and even have things fail if you just ignore them. I wanted to learn about navigation from point to point in the real world. It's been fun. Using Little Navmaps to make flight plans to get from place to place. Doing IFR stuff at night and in weather is a lot of fun believe it or not. Gotta concentrate on your instruments and have them set up right. That's what I've been doing more of lately. It's a challenge and I have to beat it. Setting up controls in this one is another level of hard! The clickable cockpits go on forever. Every switch, button and knob in ever bird. This is why I'll never mess with airliners! Just too much! Even with all my nice gear I'd run out of switches buttone and knobs! I'm using a third party software, Spad.neXt to map things as there are SO many of these you'd run out of key commands so they use code strings to assign stuff. Trick is finding them. A lot of common ones but every plane is different. The Spad software is difficult but the light bulbs are starting to go off in my head. I got past the VKB and Virpil stuff then Joystick Gremlin--this is just more of the same. My latest hurdle is assigning the fuel tank selector knobs for the P-38 to the rotary switches on my Virpil Throttle. Some great peeps on the Flying Iron Discord are helping me out. Lot of community there.
But as I've said, YMMV. If that's not your thing, that's fine. I'm just looking at newer stuff. I'M NOT SHILLING FOR ANYONE--just to be clear for the impaired among us. Basically, because I have the rig for it. What I have is really overkill for AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 16, 2024, 10:17:33 AM
Good stuff Drano… too bad it won’t matter.
I too am baffled by the popularity commercial/freight pilot sim world. People actually fly thr routes in real time. Thats a special flight simmer. Also the MSFS community has some of the most amazing home sim pits I have ever seen. For a passenger plane!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 16, 2024, 10:30:05 AM
I too am baffled by the popularity commercial/freight pilot sim world. People actually fly thr routes in real time. Thats a special flight simmer. Also the MSFS community has some of the most amazing home sim pits I have ever seen. For a passenger plane!
And the gear for that is absolutely nuts! If you're flying in 2D and want to build a simpit with "real" instruments---somebody has probably made one! I saw a Garmin 530 that acts just like the real one. Real screen, funtional knobs and buttons that plugs in a USB to the sim--$1k! And those "special" guys are lining up for it! Been with my wife for 40 years. That would certainly be the end of me! hehe
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 10:57:25 AM
VR is great but after owning two headsets I decided I just like TrackIR better. Not because it looks better but because it's less hassle. I bought the Oculus when the consumer version was first released. Was flying X-Plane now and then back then, don't remember the version. I had bought the Piper Tomahawk for X-Plane because that is what I first learned to fly in. I took it up in the Oculus and was amazed. I got distracted for a bit and suddenly I was rushing straight down to the ground. I had to close my eyes just before I hit. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 11:01:09 AM
That wasn't the first time I'd seen 3D on the PC though. Had a friend who had an Amiga 1000 back in the mid 80's. He had the LCD glasses that switched rapidly in sync with 3D images on the monitor for an amazing 3D experience. I thought that would catch on. It didn't. VR is here to stay now though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 16, 2024, 11:13:13 AM
When vr is added to the mix ah takes the advantage as you can truly enjoy VR in AH with just a 1070 vCard
Same can't be said for the other two
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 11:41:55 AM
I would also suggest people download the free DCS World client and play around with the two free planes (P-51 trainer and SU-25) and go ahead and download some of the nicer free mod airframes like VSN's F4 and A4, and the excellent free blackhawk mod to get a taste of the helo. There is also a little bird free mod aircraft that I've been meaning to try.
In both cases, there is a bunch you can play with before deciding if there is anything you want to pay for. I don't see how anyone can have a problem with trying out some free stuff if you are into simming.
You can certainly spend a lot of money in DCS, but you can also get quite a lot free. Go make your own evaluation.
This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me. Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get. It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE. It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery. It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming. The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it.
The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs.
Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.
Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you. Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.
All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim. It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.
To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on February 16, 2024, 11:58:13 AM
This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me. Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get. It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE. It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery. It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming. The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it.
The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs.
Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.
Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you. Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.
All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim. It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.
To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.
Because some people don't want that out of a game. I enjoy the simplicity of AH. I can log in and go find a fight within 5 minutes of rolling. It is designed with this in mind. All of the games you mention are vastly different with different target markets and really cannot be compared side by side. I also like the events (I barely even fly in the MA). We can throw a dart at an air battle in WWII and come up with a pretty damn accurate event, though it might take a couple plane type/model substitutes. There isn't another game that can do events like we do in their current state. Maybe some day.
I think it's a very tough sell to come to a WWII combat flight sim forum and want people to play DCS, which is primarily a combat jet sim game with what...5 or 6 WWII planes?
PS. This is coming from someone who has DCS installed and bought the F-14. I just haven't had the time or desire to sit down and spend hundreds of hours learning a new game and having to read manuals to fly each new type I want to fly. I also have War Thunder, IL-2, and MSFS2020. I'm not a hater.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 16, 2024, 12:14:11 PM
This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me. Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get. It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE. It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery. It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming. The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it.
The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs.
Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.
Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you. Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.
All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim. It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.
To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.
The reluctance for me is due to what you get for FREE.
Im retired so time isnt too much of an issue, so I can put time in to learn a new game ( have taxied, taken off a bunch of times and have flown around a lot with the P51.....landing,,,,not so much yet :D ) Even being free, the hours spent I feel are wasted. Just in the lack of combat. I dont want to fly around, I want to fight other players. Im happy to pay my $15 a month to do that pretty much any time I want to.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 16, 2024, 12:24:46 PM
All of the games you mention are vastly different with different target markets and really cannot be compared side by side.
I think it's a very tough sell to come to a WWII combat flight sim forum and want people to play DCS, which is primarily a combat jet sim game with what...5 or 6 WWII planes?
Exactly, they are different and I am not suggesting DCS instead of any other, but rather in addition to. With regards to a multi-player WWII combat game you are correct. I am only mentioning DCS as it is unique in its free offerings. If it was a financial hit I see your point.
I too enjoyed AH's simplicity, but it did not stop me from reading books or watching documentaries on WWII aircraft. If someone wanted to give you a free book or DVD on the P-51 would you turn it down? I am sure there are those that don't want to complicate their lives with learning anything outside of the game. I think by and large those people are not the ones spending money on HOTAS, VR and the like.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 12:28:31 PM
I think most want a simplified war environment. Millions love running around shooting people in FPS games but don't want the actual training and discipline required of the real life military. Same goes for flight sims. For me, learning and experiencing a sim as close to real life is more satisfying, and therefore less time wasted, than skipping the hard part. But I repeat myself.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 16, 2024, 12:29:21 PM
The reluctance for me is due to what you get for FREE.
Im retired so time isnt too much of an issue, so I can put time in to learn a new game ( have taxied, taken off a bunch of times and have flown around a lot with the P51.....landing,,,,not so much yet :D ) Even being free, the hours spent I feel are wasted. Just in the lack of combat. I dont want to fly around, I want to fight other players. Im happy to pay my $15 a month to do that pretty much any time I want to.
See, I find that interesting. When I was playing around with the DCS TF-51 and still flying AH, I found it enhanced my flying skills and appreciation in AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 16, 2024, 12:40:34 PM
I think most want a simplified war environment. Millions love running around shooting people in FPS games but don't want the actual training and discipline required of the real life military. Same goes for flight sims. For me, learning and experiencing a sim as close to real life is more satisfying, and therefore less time wasted, than skipping the hard part. But I repeat myself.
I think I am the same way. Funny that MSFS over the years never really hooked me, but give me that same level of fidelity with the simulated ability to "kill people and break their things" and suddenly I am having more fun than I have had for years in this hobby.
Interesting all of our different takes on this hobby.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 01:01:16 PM
It's long been a practice in video games to create a mini game within a game to simulate an aspect of the part not really modeled. Those I have never enjoyed much.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 05:00:21 PM
I doubt there is any sim developer anywhere more dedicated to detail and realism than Heatblur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHCKO9Hb-M
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 16, 2024, 05:31:40 PM
Because some people don't want that out of a game. I enjoy the simplicity of AH. I can log in and go find a fight within 5 minutes of rolling. It is designed with this in mind. All of the games you mention are vastly different with different target markets and really cannot be compared side by side. I also like the events (I barely even fly in the MA). We can throw a dart at an air battle in WWII and come up with a pretty damn accurate event, though it might take a couple plane type/model substitutes. There isn't another game that can do events like we do in their current state. Maybe some day.
I think it's a very tough sell to come to a WWII combat flight sim forum and want people to play DCS, which is primarily a combat jet sim game with what...5 or 6 WWII planes?
PS. This is coming from someone who has DCS installed and bought the F-14. I just haven't had the time or desire to sit down and spend hundreds of hours learning a new game and having to read manuals to fly each new type I want to fly. I also have War Thunder, IL-2, and MSFS2020. I'm not a hater.
That’s the secret sauce of AH. Easy action or easy to make your own and the capture map style gameplay.
I think trying to compare it to other sims today is not fair to AH or the other sims. AH is a bit of a unicorn. I’ve played jet games before and I don’t really like it. I downloaded DCS too but wasn’t a fan really. I could see that getting boring easy. AH is the best bang for the buck in WWII dedicated sims.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 07:35:57 PM
Yall defending AH are talking to used cars salesmen selling lemons, talkers, they only act like they are listening.
They will rinse and repeat hoping they finally crack the egg. Low class trips has been pushing this nonsense for a year.. He has a sickness of obsession.
The creep who calls a woman 100 times after she said no 100 times.
Nice won’t cut it with that mental mush. Trips concept relies on you being polite while he pees in your grandmas beer and laughing about it out of view. He soends every waking hour obsessed with taking your numbers. What a lonely waste of a soul
Ya have 3 gears left use them and crack that throttle. He doesn’t listen to nice.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 07:39:53 PM
The WWII stuff they have, is largely by accident taking it over from a failed indy project.
Huh? What Indy Project?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 16, 2024, 07:45:33 PM
Learning to fly any aircraft should be work. Becoming a master of that platform should be hard work. The greater its ability and complexity the harder the work. Otherwise there's no satisfaction and it's boring after only a brief time.
--Sun in your eyes
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 08:27:09 PM
Learning to fly any aircraft should be work. Becoming a master of that platform should be hard work. The greater its ability and complexity the harder the work. Otherwise there's no satisfaction and it's boring after only a brief time.
--Sun in your eyes
Pretty Manikins is a bucket full of bugs. This sim is 10 times more stable.
How long before you accept the word no? You’ve become a flea. Only punks are as oersistant as you 4 dweebs
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 08:31:16 PM
There was a 3rd party vendor going to build a Normandy WWII Module on top of DCS. A GoFundMe kind of thing. It went belly up and ED picked up the pieces and made good to the players who had donated to the extent they could and finished as much as they could to protect the DCS brand.
I wasn't here at the time. That is what I pieced together.
I don't know if you are serious in your crusade animl but you are amusing either way. :aok
Listen you lil spit wad. You are a obsessive joke. You fly a joke. You soeak a jone, you luve and breathe being a joke. How many times has uour lame butt been told no. I’d say you’re amusing, but illness is not amusing. You’re a con, you sell horse crap
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 08:46:03 PM
I doubt there is any sim developer anywhere more dedicated to detail and realism than Heatblur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHCKO9Hb-M
I hope you realize whenever you post something like that, Animl strangles a kitten. I just think you should understand the consequences of your actions.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 08:49:32 PM
Garbage in garbage out.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 08:59:29 PM
Iron's Heatblur post reminded me of some inside baseball I wanted to comment on.
I think ED's use of 3rd party vendors is inspired strategy. It can occasionally blow up on the like the WWII Normandy debacle, but in the whole has been a game changer for ED.
I don't know if ED helps fund any of those efforts. I doubt it. What ED does, is approve the project and give them technical assistance and guarantees that while they are actively working the project another vendor won't jump in and duplicate their effort. Then they give it ED blessing and leverage their marketing reach to give it an exposure it would have been hard for Heatblur to pay for. In return, the vendors probably pays a licensing fee and provide content for ED's ecosystem which generates more potential customers for their in-house projects. With a successful vendor like Heatblur, the vendor can concentrate on the value add content built on top of the ED foundation without having to write the whole sim from scratch and they piggy back on ED reputation. A virtuous circle. I guess in a business sense that is a classic franchise model, not in just "franchise" in the use of the term as series of related products. Less like the IL2 "franchise" but more like a McDonalds "franchise" with independent operator\owners.
In the mean time the vendor takes the financial risk and has shoulders the burden of the the team costs and most of the risk. Those are workers ED doesn't have to hire or employ so they are not a liability on their books yet provide them benefit.
ED provides the base simulation engine and API and umbrella brand and marketing leverage.
I don't think IL2 does that, do they? I guess X-plane and MSFS might be examples of that model.
An interesting strategic choice. In effect, a mutual force multiplier for both vendor and parent sim. First time I've seen that in a combat sim.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:20:33 PM
Iron's Heatblur post reminded me of some inside baseball I wanted to comment on.
I think ED use of 3rd party vendors is inspired strategy. It can occasionally blow up on the like the WWII Normandy debacle, but in the whole has been a game changer for ED.
I don't know if ED help fund any of those efforts. I doubt it. What ED does is approve the project and give them technical assistance and guarantees that while they are actively working the project another vendor won't jump in and duplicate their effort. Then they give it ED blessing and leverage their marketing reach to give it an exposure it would have been hard for them to pay for. In return, the vendors probably pay a licensing fee and provide content for ED's ecosystem which generates more potential customers for their in-house projects. With a successful vendor like Heatblur, they can concentrate on the value add content without having to write the whole sim from scratch and they piggy back on ED reputation. A virtuous circle. I guess in a business sense that is a classic franchise model, not in just he "franchise" use of the term as series of related products. Less like the IL2 "franchise" but more like a McDonalds "franchise".
In the mean time the vendor takes the financial risk and has shoulders the burden of the the team costs and most of the risk. Those are workers ED doesn't have to hire or employ so they are not a liability on their books yet provide them benefit.
ED provides the base simulation engine and API and umbrella brand and marketing leverage.
I don't think IL2 does that, do they? I guess X-plane and MSFS might be examples of that model.
An interesting strategic choice. In effect, a mutual force multiplier for both vendor and parent sim.
Mental flake
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:22:49 PM
beautiful mess
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 09:28:23 PM
There was a 3rd party vendor going to build a Normandy WWII Module on top of DCS. A GoFundMe kind of thing. It went belly up and ED picked up the pieces and made good to the players who had donated to the extent they could and finished as much as they could to protect the DCS brand.
I wasn't here at the time. That is what I pieced together.
Interesting... I had no idea. I don't think I was paying a whole lot of attention to DCS in 2014. Always toyed with it off and on since LOMAC was released. All I really remember about ww2 DCS hitting my radar was when the I-16 dropped like a bolt out of the blue (much like the JF-17)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:31:55 PM
Interesting... I had no idea. I don't think I was paying a whole lot of attention to DCS in 2014. Always toyed with it off and on since LOMAC was released. All I really remember about ww2 DCS hitting my radar was when the I-16 dropped like a bolt out of the blue (much like the JF-17)
Pretty Manikins is a Joke.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:32:29 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 09:36:20 PM
I think ED's use of 3rd party vendors is inspired strategy. It can occasionally blow up on the like the WWII Normandy debacle, but in the whole has been a game changer for ED.
It's a good approach. That said, there are consumer risks associated. I don't know what the Normandy debacle is/was... but, think Hawk. That was weird.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:37:28 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 09:44:30 PM
Interesting... I had no idea. I don't think I was paying a whole lot of attention to DCS in 2014. Always toyed with it off and on since LOMAC was released. All I really remember about ww2 DCS hitting my radar was when the I-16 dropped like a bolt out of the blue (much like the JF-17)
I wasn't there at that time, but I became curious at various vague references so went digging.
I actually think ED did a pretty good job cleaning that up. That wasn't their project. The whole point of the vendor relationship is the vendor assumes the project risks. But I think ED was so appalled at the way the donators had been treated they felt obligated (or felt it was necessary to preserve the brand) they did their best to compensate them even though they had no obligation to. I'm not sure how that worked. I think maybe some cash and mostly store credits, but that is a guess based on unverified snipits of comment.
So anyway they took over this abandoned Normandy Invasion project so you have a couple of planes that had be sorta working and some art assets and rough a map. So they finished up what they could, but That was never par of ED's WWII strategy.
I know the CEO, Nick Grey, is supposed to be a WWII fanatic especially Battle of Britain and Pacific Theater. I was expecting BoB to be their next play, but with Combat Pilot on the horizon, I think they are making a strategic re-vectoring toward PTO to not give Combat Pilot the advantage of an unfulfilled niche to get a foothold in. I believe mainly because Williams has signaled that he is going to be moving more toward high-fidelity that IL2 was and that startes to threaten DCS' high-fidelity supremacy.
So it seems like they have changed direction but I think it is more they had an distraction interruption they had to go clean up and now are getting back on their originally planned campaign. And Combat Pilot made the choice obvious with of their next planned projects they should start first.
After PTO, I'd expect a BoB.
Then I'd expect them to go back to ETO and continue the later war planes after Normandy.
That's my bet. I could be wrong. It's going to be entertaining to watch.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:48:09 PM
The sent of wet dogs and fleas
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:49:29 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 09:54:49 PM
Considering the speed ED moves and considering my age... I doubt I'll ever be close to happy with their WW2 plane set. Maybe they'll listen to Enigma and do up a bunch of FC3 type stuff. I really think they'd see some serious movement their direction if they did.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 16, 2024, 09:55:50 PM
Considering the speed ED moves and considering my age... I doubt I'll ever be close to happy with their WW2 plane set. Maybe they'll listen to Enigma and do up a bunch of FC3 type stuff. I really think they'd see some serious movement their direction if they did.
I wasn't suggesting we'd live to see it.
:rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 09:56:42 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 10:07:04 PM
Considering the speed ED moves and considering my age... I doubt I'll ever be close to happy with their WW2 plane set. Maybe they'll listen to Enigma and do up a bunch of FC3 type stuff. I really think they'd see some serious movement their direction if they did.
Hahaha, thats never going to happen. Dev is a stinking mess of lies. , they know it, they can’t take criticism. Some of the worst programmers in the genre. WT has better programming. These morons took on stuff WAY over their heads, and it shows. Trippy poured investment into crap, now he’s panicing
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 10:35:52 PM
Hahaha, thats never going to happen. Dev is a stinking mess of lies. , they know it, they can’t take criticism. Some of the worst programmers in the genre. WT has better programming. These morons took on stuff WAY over their heads, and it shows. Trippy poured investment into crap, now he’s panicing
FWIW, DCS is pretty dang good, all things considered. Further, a lot of the problems presented in that 4yr old video you keep using to fault DCS have been satisfactorily addressed... and those "morons" actively work on whatever problems are currently present (which I honestly couldn't tell you, as I don't notice many issues with any of it). DCS has its faults, as does every "Combat Flight Sim", including AH. The difference between DCS & AH (IMO) is DCS is much more a simulation while AH is solidly a game (graphics don't turn me on). They're different beasts altogether. And I think that's the point most are missing. HT defined AH as a Game long ago. Wags defined DCS as a Flight Simulation Game. This may seem trivial, but it speaks volumes to those willing to listen. Regardless of whose skimming what or where, I sincerely doubt there will ever be a mad rush from AH to DCS. AH to War Thunder... ya, that might easily happen with just minor changes to WT's business model.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 10:38:25 PM
FWIW, DCS is pretty dang good, all things considered. Further, a lot of the problems presented in that 4yr old video you keep using to fault DCS have been satisfactorily addressed... and those "morons" actively work on whatever problems are currently present (which I honestly couldn't tell you, as I don't notice many issues with any of it). DCS has its faults, as does every "Combat Flight Sim", including AH. The difference between DCS & AH (IMO) is DCS is much more a simulation while AH is solidly a game (graphics don't turn me on). They're different beasts altogether. And I think that's the point most are missing. HT defined AH as a Game long ago. Wags defined DCS as a Flight Simulation Game. This may seem trivial, but it speaks volumes to those willing to listen. Regardless of whose skimming what or where, I sincerely doubt there will ever be a mad rush from AH to DCS. AH to War Thunder... ya, that might easily happen with just minor changes to WT's business model.
Its pretty, thats all there is to it. 500k reports of bugs. Go there, play your white glove buckets of bugs. Don’t do it here, this id not pretty manikins bbs. Grow some class snd respect. Until then, i’m a wirst nightmare
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 16, 2024, 10:59:53 PM
Its pretty, thats all there is to it. 500k reports of bugs. Go there, play your white glove buckets of bugs. Don’t do it here, this id not pretty manikins bbs. Grow some class snd respect. Until then, i’m a wirst nightmare
I don't notice many bugs. There's a level of perfection demanded by the DCS base thats incomparable to AH = viola: bug reports. This alone can be a "roadblock" to new pileits, a demanding community. Well, it's hard too... which is a bigger roadblock.
And I don't know what a wrist nightmare is but... get a room.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on February 16, 2024, 11:19:03 PM
The difference between DCS & AH (IMO) is DCS is much more a simulation while AH is solidly a game (graphics don't turn me on). They're different beasts altogether.
Agreed.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 16, 2024, 11:22:41 PM
How so? I thought WT was on the opposite end of the spectrum from DCS. What business model changes would make this happen?
Ditch the Pay-To-Win sort of thing they have going on. I could be wrong, but I know plenty of folks to balked at that idea for an arcade feeling game. That said, I know a few who balked at paying for a module in DCS... then ran out and paid hundreds if not thousands for "Ships" in Star Citizen which puts DCS to shame in the hot-mess cat 14yrs later.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 16, 2024, 11:48:35 PM
FFS Animl! Let it go. You’ve lost touch with reality.
Actually, do us a favor and quit the game so you can prove your own prophecy. Everyone wins.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 16, 2024, 11:51:45 PM
FWIW, DCS is pretty dang good, all things considered. Further, a lot of the problems presented in that 4yr old video you keep using to fault DCS have been satisfactorily addressed... and those "morons" actively work on whatever problems are currently present (which I honestly couldn't tell you, as I don't notice many issues with any of it). DCS has its faults, as does every "Combat Flight Sim", including AH. The difference between DCS & AH (IMO) is DCS is much more a simulation while AH is solidly a game (graphics don't turn me on). They're different beasts altogether. And I think that's the point most are missing. HT defined AH as a Game long ago. Wags defined DCS as a Flight Simulation Game. This may seem trivial, but it speaks volumes to those willing to listen. Regardless of whose skimming what or where, I sincerely doubt there will ever be a mad rush from AH to DCS. AH to War Thunder... ya, that might easily happen with just minor changes to WT's business model.
What are you doing hangin with these dweebs? You used to be FT with me, we kicked some serious butt. I don’t agree with your politics, but we were true bros back in the day. My x52 came from you. It would be great for me to run with you again. Lets show em how its done again. You know I wish peace in your life. Miss ya
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 17, 2024, 12:56:50 AM
Ya, would be fun. I pop in here now an then, usually to lurk. But man, coming back to AH after this many years of DCS/IL-2(various versions)/MSFS and all that.... would be like someone taking my Hog and handing me an OTASCO Special Schwinn Stingray (mine was green, and believe it or not, I still have it!). I ain't knocking AH. I got about 18yrs or so of great fun out of it, I just sorta burned out. Got tired of the same old arguments, silly arnold gamey stuff certain types do, all that jazz. To be honest, I was mildly entertaining the idea of taking a peek into AH again when HT announced he was letting a certain Turd back in the game.... nope. That act spoke volumes to me regarding the state of AH. Heck, I don't even fly the stuff I like that often anymore. Took me a year just to trade out my Warthog stick for a Virple and still haven't got to the Throttle/rudders yet... sitting in a box next to me. Maybe eventually someday for those and AH too.
I'm drawing a blank, what's FT mean?
Tell ya what. Download DCS, get the K4, autostart it, no rudder assist full SIM, then get off the ground then land, first attempt without crashing and I'll give AH a week. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 17, 2024, 01:49:30 AM
Stop reposting the same toejam like you've gone and got Alzheimers, the more you repeat the posting the less effect and value it and your posts have. These people are openly expressing their collective First Amendment rights in a much more compelling manner than you are, while you bang your head against the wall, as your time left on this earth is wasted by walls of rambling text screaming incoherently into the void over and over again, it's not going to help you get what you want, nor help you seem a rational human being who's opinions, insights and thoughts are worthy of attention, which is why your being put on people's ignore list faster then Usain Bolt running 100 metres. I personally get the feeling from your posts in this thread are what it would be like Joe Biden was given text to speech.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 17, 2024, 06:31:50 AM
Tell ya what. Download DCS, get the K4, autostart it, no rudder assist full SIM, then get off the ground then land, first attempt without crashing and I'll give AH a week. ;)
I believe FT means full time but with Animl-AW who knows..
I have done that in a k4 on dcs in the daytime lol..
Now get into AH for a week :joystick:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 17, 2024, 08:33:14 AM
I believe FT means full time but with Animl-AW who knows..
I have done that in a k4 on dcs in the daytime lol..
Now get into AH for a week :joystick:
Eagler
You do know how to turn off the assists right? Video or it didn't happen. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 17, 2024, 08:49:14 AM
Just FYI some things you can do with the TF-51, aside from the basics of flying:
Also here is a description of another free mission:
TF-51D Extreme Survival (difficulty level 10000000000) Type - Single mission
Thinking what's the use of the TF-51D mustang? Well, I have a very fun mission! You and 3 other TF-51Ds are being attacked by 4 F-14s, 4 F-16s and 4 F/A-18Cs, all set to Ace skill level. Your task is to survive for AT LEAST 10 MINUTES. But there are rules! You can not run to any airport. You are not supposed to land on the open fields themselves unless your engine has given up (be careful, they still try to shoot you down even after you have landed and stopped!). You can not eject unless your wings have clipped off or you see your tail fly in some other direction other than your plane. Some tips to survive? Stay low (treetop level at least), stay fast and keep loitering and jinking. Listen to the calls made by your teammates. YOU ARE NOT EXPECTED TO SURVIVE. GOOD LUCK!
These WILL improve your skills! :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 17, 2024, 09:07:21 AM
FYI from the ancient Air Warrior texts, FT = Fighter Town. A small arena just for dogfighting. Was a blast.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on February 17, 2024, 09:29:38 AM
You do know how to turn off the assists right? Video or it didn't happen. :D
I think I had them off..no video though
It involves turning on a bunch of switches and things, priming the pump, switching on the radio, tuning to the correct channel and asking for an engine start.. All clear and press to fire up the engine...
Then the fun begins as you try to taxi and liftoff..then get to a fight without blowing your engine before you are shot down from an enemy you never saw...
At least you don't have to worry with landing much lol
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 17, 2024, 09:35:29 AM
You would probably know if you turned off the assists as where they are is not obvious. It's a whole 'nother ballgame with the assists turned off on any of the tail draggers.
Here's where to find them. The assist is on by default, not sure about the auto rudders.
https://youtu.be/U3hY_iiZEuI
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 17, 2024, 01:17:47 PM
It involves turning on a bunch of switches and things, priming the pump, switching on the radio, tuning to the correct channel and asking for an engine start.. All clear and press to fire up the engine...
Then the fun begins as you try to taxi and liftoff..then get to a fight without blowing your engine before you are shot down from an enemy you never saw...
At least you don't have to worry with landing much lol
Eagler
You probably didn't blow your engine... well, like you think. Did ya flip the MW switch? Not the one on the Dash, the one under the Tailwheel lock lever? Did you warm up before jamming full throttle and leave it there for most of the rest of the flight? Forget to set Gov-Auto to auto?
Spotting is much better than it used to be, much better. And, if you take flip the gun safety switch off... the guns/cannons work almost every time! :joystick:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 17, 2024, 01:22:28 PM
The Mig-21 accelerates so fast I destroyed the landing gear a few times before I learned there is a safety mechanism you must release before you can get the gear up.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on February 17, 2024, 01:42:09 PM
I know the CEO, Nick Grey, is supposed to be a WWII fanatic especially Battle of Britain and Pacific Theater. I was expecting BoB to be their next play, but with Combat Pilot on the horizon, I think they are making a strategic re-vectoring toward PTO to not give Combat Pilot the advantage of an unfulfilled niche to get a foothold in. I believe mainly because Williams has signaled that he is going to be moving more toward high-fidelity that IL2 was and that startes to threaten DCS' high-fidelity supremacy.
Could be. I couldn't figure out why the CH-47 was being developed for DCS, then yesterday I saw a Youtube preview for the CH-47 in MSFS2020. Competition is a good thing for companies serious about growing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 17, 2024, 01:58:41 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 17, 2024, 02:04:10 PM
What that will do is output to a virtual joystick an averaged input over a time brief enough so the lag is not noticed and throw out the spikes. I used one method of that several years ago and it worked well.
I'll elaborate on the puzzle pieces a bit more for the uninitiated. First you get a virtual joystick like the free app vjoy. By itself it has no buttons or axes. You then need a program that adds those joystick axes and buttons like Joystick Gremlin or UCR. There is no configuration for vjoy, install and forget. After configuring the axes and buttons in Joystick Gremlin you will then see vjoy with those working axes and buttons in whatever app that sees usb devices.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 11:36:22 AM
FFS Animl! Let it go. You’ve lost touch with reality.
Actually, do us a favor and quit the game so you can prove your own prophecy. Everyone wins.
I can think circles around you on my worst day.you should look into doin something about your split personality issues. You say one thing and do the opposite in the same thread. I knew your brainless comments on numbers I reported was brain dead when you couldn’t do 5th grade math. If ya hang with and try to impress punks, you become a fellow punk. People become who they hang with the most. These are not the brightest clowns in the circus.
Re: Peak tonight - 192 in all arenas, 104(?) in MotA 9pm-ish CST
Ya, would be fun. I pop in here now an then, usually to lurk. But man, coming back to AH after this many years of DCS/IL-2(various versions)/MSFS and all that.... would be like someone taking my Hog and handing me an OTASCO Special Schwinn Stingray (mine was green, and believe it or not, I still have it!). I ain't knocking AH. I got about 18yrs or so of great fun out of it, I just sorta burned out. Got tired of the same old arguments, silly arnold gamey stuff certain types do, all that jazz. To be honest, I was mildly entertaining the idea of taking a peek into AH again when HT announced he was letting a certain Turd back in the game.... nope. That act spoke volumes to me regarding the state of AH. Heck, I don't even fly the stuff I like that often anymore. Took me a year just to trade out my Warthog stick for a Virple and still haven't got to the Throttle/rudders yet... sitting in a box next to me. Maybe eventually someday for those and AH too.
I'm drawing a blank, what's FT mean?
Tell ya what. Download DCS, get the K4, autostart it, no rudder assist full SIM, then get off the ground then land, first attempt without crashing and I'll give AH a week. ;)
Maybe wrong Tumor? Mike? Flying Tigers?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 12:23:11 PM
FFS Animl! Let it go. You’ve lost touch with reality.
Actually, do us a favor and quit the game so you can prove your own prophecy. Everyone wins.
And back on the ignore list you go. You have no idea who you are today, nor tomorrow. The only ones who want me gone are Pretty Manikin players selling their game on another game's forum. I get along with everyone else. How about stop talking about your drugs on 200.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 18, 2024, 01:33:10 PM
Right Tumor... but I don't think I ever was a Flying Tiger. It ain't like my memory is anything to talk about anymore though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 18, 2024, 02:35:30 PM
What is it you are trying to accomplish animl? If Dale didn't want us talking about other games here he could say so and make a rule. I'd abide. Your back seat driving does nothing but embarrass yourself, or it should.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 18, 2024, 03:02:14 PM
Not much new in this short vid, but I did catch a couple of things I had missed in other vids.
I knew Williams was the producer for the successful IL2 GB series, I missed that he was the CEO for Rise of Flight. I had been really impressed with the sim quality of that game so I can definitely see him leaning into leaning into high'ish fidelity for CP. It also now makes sense why IL2 bought RoF. LoL. I had always wondered how that match was made. ;)
Also I caught a hint like Williams is looking at a 3rd party vendor model like DCS uses for sub-companies developing content under the main sim franchise umbrella. Like DCS partners with Heatblur. That would be very smart if he learned from DCS success with that model. Not only does it show he can learn and adapt and isn't afraid to take a new approach and innovate over what worked for him in IL2, but also it sorta might change the dynamic on how long something this size will take. Multiple teams working to some degree in parallel might reach Alpha faster than I was thinking.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 03:03:31 PM
What is it you are trying to accomplish animl? If Dale didn't want us talking about other games here he could say so and make a rule. I'd abide. Your back seat driving does nothing but embarrass yourself, or it should.
Well then, you seem to think I'm alone and that is NOT the case. all anyone has to do is read through. You just can't take hints, dense. If Dale wants to sell our audience to another game while we put all the free work into preserving the game )and income", at least for us.
then the best thing I can say is "Never tip a waitress for poor service.
Ask yourself your own question. What are you accomplishing by putting down our game on our bbs, and over-selling your own that is dripping of bugs and no fights? You're trying to sell apples to an orange crowd. And don't say that's not what you're doing,.. some of our IQ is higher than 60.
We both make valid points. But you're the one out of line, you're in my backyard. not vice versa.
I hope your number drop is temporary.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 18, 2024, 03:07:18 PM
What is it you are trying to accomplish animl? If Dale didn't want us talking about other games here he could say so and make a rule. I'd abide. Your back seat driving does nothing but embarrass yourself, or it should.
LoL.
If your sig line wasn't so good, I'd suggest you copy mine.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 03:07:52 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 03:09:19 PM
If your sig line wasn't so good, I'd suggest you copy mine.
Well you're is a mirror into yourself. I can post 20 threads where you turn them into 15 page drama's everyone got sick of, yet you repeated it faithfully. You're you're own worst nightmare. Ignored by many.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 18, 2024, 03:10:11 PM
If your sig line wasn't so good, I'd suggest you copy mine.
This IS the same guy who, called me a "Sexual Predictor" and cutting me down for making videos... in my own thread explaining why iw as gone so long,.. dealing with the loss of my wife and son ( a victim of a sexual predictor.)
This guy has ZERO merit, ZERO class, and Zero Credibility. Everyone got sick on him and Dolby tag teaming drama spewing all over the place,... like he's trying to flip the tables on me here too. He's just a low life. and this is classless, but this goes along with his shady personality. Point being, he can't take what he dishes out. Anyone who listens to him is weak.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 18, 2024, 03:29:36 PM
What is it you are trying to accomplish animl? If Dale didn't want us talking about other games here he could say so and make a rule. I'd abide. Your back seat driving does nothing but embarrass yourself, or it should.
Besides, even though I suspect most have him on ignore now, when he does post his spew, he is still kicking the topic back up to the top again, and again, and again.
I get a chuckle out of that. :cool:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 18, 2024, 04:39:17 PM
I can think circles around you on my worst day.you should look into doin something about your split personality issues. You say one thing and do the opposite in the same thread. I knew your brainless comments on numbers I reported was brain dead when you couldn’t do 5th grade math. If ya hang with and try to impress punks, you become a fellow punk. People become who they hang with the most. These are not the brightest clowns in the circus.
Re: Peak tonight - 192 in all arenas, 104(?) in MotA 9pm-ish CST
You offer to sell me your stick one day to keep me in the game, tired of watching me struggle Tell me to quit the next day
Who are you tomorrow?
You can use joysticks in other games last I checked?
I guess I misunderstood I thought you meant the MA… either way the trend line is still pointing down no matter what your anecdotal math might want to be true.
Nobody is coming to steal AH from you. Comparing this game to others is like comparing apples and unicorns. If someone leaves AH it will not be because of what the other games offer so much as it will be what this one does not. It won’t have anything to do with anyone on this BBS or this thread you cannot seem to let die.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 18, 2024, 05:39:58 PM
I found out something interesting stuff that may be useful about the IL2 servers today.
The main company servers reach their peaks between 10 and 2 EST. (these have the small maps with icons and airstarts) They numbers start to fall off but are still decent at 5 EST.
The Combat box (the north American server) and probably one of the best servers seems to peak between 4 and 9 EST. (I'm still not solid on this one yet but I'm getting closer to figuring it out) This one is the one to check out if you want the full realism with SRS. I have noticed that the peak times seem to be much earlier in the day then I was used to with AH3.
SRS: (there are a bunch more but these are just the ones I'm familiar with. Once you start up you contact tower on channel 2 requesting a callsign or you can request a specific callsign. I usually use Lonestar for example.
After you get your callsign you can request taxi and then takeoff. You may be told to hold if somebody has declared and an emergency.
Once you are airborn you switch to channel 1 (command) where you can request picture, co-ordinate strikes etc.
"Command, this is Yamaha Lead in grid 1015 (updates location so they can advise you on enemy aircraft and call for support if needed)
"Command, this is Uncle-3 in grid 1015, request mission." (this will be assigned based on plane type and weapon loadout)
"Command, Maniac-Lead, strike package en route to grid 1716, ETA 5 minutes." (this will allow command to vector fighters for cover)
"Control, this is Arrow-Lead in grid 1017, request bearing home" (this is a big help for people like me that sometimes have the map upside down)
"Tower, Maniac-3 in grid 2417, emergency landing" (This will deny takeoff clearance to planes taking off to clear the runway for you if needed)
Please feel free to correct anything I got wrong as I'm still learning.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 18, 2024, 05:50:11 PM
It's pretty cool. Gotta hand it to the CB guys, they went all in with SRS. Have cool events. Their guys came up with the giant skins library for the game too.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 18, 2024, 06:24:09 PM
SRS: (there are a bunch more but these are just the ones I'm familiar with. Once you start up you contact tower on channel 2 requesting a callsign or you can request a specific callsign. I usually use Lonestar for example.
I wasn't aware IL-2 used SRS. Thought it was strictly DCS. Gonna have to dig into SRS as well.
I have been using Teamspeak with my friends for flying, because it is independent of the programs and we can meet up prior to starting any session. In game the DCS voice comms are coming along and I like that the comms clarity is based on the technological state of the radios. Also like that comm range is affected by distance and terrain. Flew with a friend last night and lost contact with him when he took damage to his radio. Nice touch of immersion.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 18, 2024, 09:24:12 PM
SRS adds realism, at least in DCS. With realism comes complexity. Which radios are tuned to which frequencies? Who am I talking too? What's the protocol for this channel? Too much for some. It does integrate perfectly with DCS though. Tune your radios in the planes tunes SRS. Tune BR-549 for a good time.
I got my tech ham radio license irl a couple years ago. Have yet to use my radio.
Discord is easy.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 18, 2024, 11:06:42 PM
It's pretty cool. Gotta hand it to the CB guys, they went all in with SRS. Have cool events. Their guys came up with the giant skins library for the game too.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
For sure you're right on this. I just figured out to look up the stats and it will tell you how many and what kinds of rounds hit you. It even breaks down to HE and AP on the same weapon.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 18, 2024, 11:08:47 PM
SRS adds realism, at least in DCS. With realism comes complexity. Which radios are tuned to which frequencies? Who am I talking too? What's the protocol for this channel? Too much for some. It does integrate perfectly with DCS though. Tune your radios in the planes tunes SRS. Tune BR-549 for a good time.
I got my tech ham radio license irl a couple years ago. Have yet to use my radio.
Discord is easy.
I've found the voice prompts help to tell you what radio is tuned to what channel. I have the problem of who the heck was I talking too as I haven't figured out how to see the overlay that show's who's transmitting in VR yet or if it's even possible.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 19, 2024, 04:14:56 AM
What some are calling realism here sounds like a giant PITA to deal with during my hour of evening flight sim fun...
And WT guys probably say the same thing about AH. ;)
It's a continuum. That's why there are different sims at different points in the graph.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 19, 2024, 10:25:41 AM
I make DCS videos occasionally and post on youtube. They are almost always off the cuff. I don't script them or polish them, ever. When I learn something I think would be useful I share it. As expected, I'm lucky to get a thousand views, most far less. Some folks get tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of views so the interest in DCS is there. I make a stupid video of something from MSFS and I get a thousand views in a day. Not making a point, just an observation.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 19, 2024, 10:30:34 AM
Someone should probably take my alt-F9 keys away. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 19, 2024, 10:40:01 AM
I wasn't aware IL-2 used SRS. Thought it was strictly DCS. Gonna have to dig into SRS as well.
I have been using Teamspeak with my friends for flying, because it is independent of the programs and we can meet up prior to starting any session. In game the DCS voice comms are coming along and I like that the comms clarity is based on the technological state of the radios. Also like that comm range is affected by distance and terrain. Flew with a friend last night and lost contact with him when he took damage to his radio. Nice touch of immersion.
FYI, SRS for IL-2 is a dedicated version of SRS. I think the Combat Box website has a link to it (which I think it on Github, I think).
I've yet to figure out if SRS and DCS In-Game-Vox is a either or thing, or they conflict, or who's using what. I do know the DCS MP list has a Vox Enabled checkbox per server now. I do a lot of time in Hoggit Training and almost never hear anyone on SRS... but that's not saying much as it's relatively rare on most any server I've been on save Enigma's ECW where it can (could) literally be TOO much. (can't speak to Growling Sidewinders as the missile fling-n-run thing is a drag)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 19, 2024, 03:37:52 PM
FYI, SRS for IL-2 is a dedicated version of SRS. I think the Combat Box website has a link to it (which I think it on Github, I think).
I've yet to figure out if SRS and DCS In-Game-Vox is a either or thing, or they conflict, or who's using what. I do know the DCS MP list has a Vox Enabled checkbox per server now. I do a lot of time in Hoggit Training and almost never hear anyone on SRS... but that's not saying much as it's relatively rare on most any server I've been on save Enigma's ECW where it can (could) literally be TOO much. (can't speak to Growling Sidewinders as the missile fling-n-run thing is a drag)
From the videos I've seen by Growling Sidewinder I would guess that if you get above like 25ft AGL you'd be dead. LOL!
Seems like with all that missile flinging that those guys have gotten good at flying below the tree line to avoid all those missiles.
One of my favorites was the one were he was running around on the deck with a Mig-21 with his radar off ambushing people and then ran out of gas and had to eject within sight of the runway.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 19, 2024, 03:56:06 PM
From the videos I've seen by Growling Sidewinder I would guess that if you get above like 25ft AGL you'd be dead. LOL!
Seems like with all that missile flinging that those guys have gotten good at flying below the tree line to avoid all those missiles.
One of my favorites was the one were he was running around on the deck with a Mig-21 with his radar off ambushing people and then ran out of gas and had to eject within sight of the runway.
Especially if you are trying to get inside a SAM's min launch distance for a popup.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 19, 2024, 04:15:06 PM
Nice! Ya that's that crazy tree skimming I was talking about. The thing I liked best about the video is when they added music is was in the background and not overpowering. I'm not sure why so many think their favorite soundtrack blocking out all the other sounds is something others will like.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 19, 2024, 04:20:32 PM
Nice! Ya that's that crazy tree skimming I was talking about. The thing I liked best about the video is when they added music is was in the background and not overpowering. I'm not sure why so many think their favorite soundtrack blocking out all the other sounds is something others will like.
I didn't think it needed any music but at least it was unintrusive.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 19, 2024, 06:14:10 PM
Especially if you are trying to get inside a SAM's min launch distance for a popup.
I don't think I've ~ever~ caught the 3-wire. If I did, I didn't notice. I've run out of gas before coming to a full stop a couple times... that's neat. I can spend days just landing & taking off a Carrier.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 19, 2024, 07:28:02 PM
Well you're is a mirror into yourself. I can post 20 threads where you turn them into 15 page drama's everyone got sick of, yet you repeated it faithfully. You're you're own worst nightmare. Ignored by many.
So someone makes a thread to discuss other games
this guy takes it personally and does everything he can to hate on other games. In a thread that is about other games.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 19, 2024, 08:23:18 PM
Never saw that in the game. May have to run it and see.
https://flic.kr/p/RwiodJ
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 20, 2024, 01:39:33 PM
IL2 released a new update today. One thing that is big apparently was updating the P40/47 engine and FM. Not sure I would even know the difference lol.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 20, 2024, 01:42:33 PM
IL2 released a new update today. One thing that is big apparently was updating the P40/47 engine and FM. Not sure I would even know the difference lol.
I'm told the P-40 in IL-2 is a Trainwreck. Maybe it's better now... although, having flown it a couple times I didn't think it was terrible awful beyond being rather uncompetitive on a server of Late War stuff.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 20, 2024, 07:18:56 PM
Just found this today.
https://youtu.be/Rv_o8idBGWY
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on February 20, 2024, 07:45:18 PM
Being put together by the same guys that put together the Karelia map for AH when we ran Stalin's 4th the first time.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 21, 2024, 02:14:12 AM
That's where my grandfather and granduncles were. Two of them came back in coffin. Also, my aunt's husband acted there as a gunner in war booty T34/85. He made it in one piece.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 21, 2024, 12:13:57 PM
Whatever happened to Oleg Maddox? He isn't brewing something up somewhere? I figured he had to be at least working on his own or in collaboration with some sim group.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 21, 2024, 01:05:06 PM
Whatever happened to Oleg Maddox? He isn't brewing something up somewhere? I figured he had to be at least working on his own or in collaboration with some sim group.
After that (and the CloD debacle) I heard he quit game development.
From a 2011 translated post from him:
Quote
Quick translation by me- By the way, I'm leaving game development. Now it's unperspective. Difficult slavery style work. I'm tired of, how you say, being a god. It's easier to create "buy-sell" and let fools develop. Those buy-sell buy from you for nothing and think themselves as a boss. Although, soon there will be nothing to sell with that business model. Game development is suffering a crisis, same as before consoles.
Now, that was before the DCS dead project so maybe he decided to give it one last try. That didn't age well. :confused:
So as far as I know he is out of game dev.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 21, 2024, 01:24:20 PM
After that (and the CloD debacle) I heard he quit game development.
From a 2011 translated post from him: Now, that was before the DCS dead project so maybe he decided to give it one last try. That didn't age well. :confused:
So as far as I know he is out of game dev.
Well, that's a shame. He obviously did some great work early on. That first IL-2 back in 2001 I believe was gold to behold.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 23, 2024, 09:25:44 AM
For those interested, DCS is making a major change for new players. As of Sunday February 25th the "First time purchase 50% off" deal will disappear. This deal allows first time purchasers to get 50% off their ENTIRE purchase. Whether you buy one aircraft/map or ALL of them, you get 50% off.
If you have considered trying out DCS, you might want to do it before Sunday. There will still be sales several times a year and they say there will be a new type of deal offered soon, but this is a great deal.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on February 23, 2024, 10:27:55 AM
For those interested, DCS is making a major change for new players. As of Sunday February 25th the "First time purchase 50% off" deal will disappear. This deal allows first time purchasers to get 50% off their ENTIRE purchase. Whether you buy one aircraft/map or ALL of them, you get 50% off.
If you have considered trying out DCS, you might want to do it before Sunday. There will still be sales several times a year and they say there will be a new type of deal offered soon, but this is a great deal.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll pick up the 109K-4 or the Super Sabre in the next couple of days so I can try it out at some point.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 23, 2024, 10:40:15 AM
That's where my grandfather and granduncles were. Two of them came back in coffin. Also, my aunt's husband acted there as a gunner in war booty T34/85. He made it in one piece.
They must have really given the Russians a bloody nose to make them decide that they'd had enough. :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 23, 2024, 04:27:06 PM
They must have really given the Russians a bloody nose to make them decide that they'd had enough. :)
Well, like at Karelian Isthmus at summer 1944, Finnish StuG III G assault guns knocked out total 87 Soviet tanks and assault guns while own combat losses were only 8 vehicles. At least 3 of them were blown up by their own crew because of mechanical failures, to prevent Russians having them.
I spent a lot of time at my grandfathers farm when I was a kid and he never talked about the war, but what I heard from other sources, he had turned some Soviet tanks to scrap metal with some melee weapons. He was an infantryman.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 24, 2024, 01:24:08 AM
Very impressive for sure. I'm doubtful there are many countries who have men like that these says.
True, most of the guys that were involved in something like this don't talk much. The only place I've been able to get vets to talk about the war is at the VFW and it's usually rather limited as to what they would say. I would try to ask them general questions and nothing specific to get them to talk.
The best way I can think of describing it after talking to many combat vets from various wars is that it was like a darkness. Sometimes they were willing to step to the edge of the darkness that they lived with every day. Most of the time they tried to stay away from it as best they could.
I have also found that most of these guys didn't have veterans hats and t-shirts and license plates. They tended to look down on anybody who "advertised" their veteran status.
Based on my experiences of talking to hard men like these and seeing the children of today I believe the US is screwed if we ever have to fight a real war.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on February 24, 2024, 07:14:08 AM
^ They were strong men in the real meaning of the word. Strong people like that turn bad times to good. Good times create weak ones, which create bad times. And because of that, strong ones emerge. It's a cycle and pretty easy to see, in which stage of it we are now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 24, 2024, 01:38:19 PM
After tomorrow there is no more discount for first time players.
I'm going to take this move as a good sign regarding the future of DCS.
Could be the reverse, of course. But I'm a glass half spilled kinda guy.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 24, 2024, 02:11:32 PM
Bah. I got busy and hadn't messed around with DCS. I was going to buy that plane set I discussed before but it didn't happen. Can somebody give me a recommendation as to what to buy? I'd like to get the best bang for the buck. Also, do I buy them in the game or on the website like IL2?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 03:02:35 PM
Bah. I got busy and hadn't messed around with DCS. I was going to buy that plane set I discussed before but it didn't happen. Can somebody give me a recommendation as to what to buy? I'd like to get the best bang for the buck. Also, do I buy them in the game or on the website like IL2?
On sale? I would recommend not buying unless on sale. They happen 4 times a year. Don't be dumb like me. ;)
You can buy them on Steam or directly through the companies website. I suggest direct.
Past that, it depends on what you want to do? Modern jets? Cold War Jets? Helos? Warbirds? You will not find an WWII AH like experience in DCS currently. I think IL2 GB or 1946 would be closer, but I can't say, I don't fly there. (Own them though. ;))
If you miss the sale, then I'd suggest DL the free client and start getting a feel with the two free airframes and download some of the better mods ( a couple of pages back) and just start enjoying them and acclimating to DCS while you wait for the next sale. One every 3 mo.
You can also use that period to do free trials of airframes and repeat the trials every 6 mo.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 03:13:32 PM
Bah. I got busy and hadn't messed around with DCS. I was going to buy that plane set I discussed before but it didn't happen. Can somebody give me a recommendation as to what to buy? I'd like to get the best bang for the buck. Also, do I buy them in the game or on the website like IL2?
What do you want to do? WWII, Korea, Modern?
Don't do Steam. Dude, DO NOT DO STEAM. No benefit whatsoever. It's unified now (pretty sure) so it doesn't really matter. All you get with Steam is an extra cog in the wheel with the possibility of hiccups>>>>like not having access to the latest A/C release until 6mo after the fact unless you dl a second instance of OB_DCS or convert to OpenBeta blah blah blah.
Download DCS World from the ED website. No buying involved, it's free. Now you will have everything you need to get started... Cockasses map & 2 Planes (TF-51 & Su-25T... I don't think you get guns with Pony, not sure on Frogfoot, doesn't matter).
You can buy individual A/C from the Website OR The in-game "Module Manager" (higly intuitive) will link you out to the Website for purchase of Aircraft. (you can buy each of them individually way cheap)
Flaming Cliffs 3 comes with a bunch of good aircraft, SIMPLE Flight Model, Non-Clickable Cockpits... it's a good purchase for the basics.
All the other aircraft are simply a matter of choice/preference. Some are harder than others.
USE these: https://chucksguides.com/ <<<very, very useful
Lastly... give me a yell. I can walk you through the tough spots, online/in-game if you like.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 03:15:12 PM
.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 03:21:16 PM
Seems Trips told me you can't do the trials through Steam. I have over 500 games on Steam including DCS but I don't play DCS through Steam. Don't be like Trips. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 03:22:59 PM
Yep. Carrier Ops adds an entire other level of goodness. To clarify, you do not NEED/HAVE to have the SuperCarrier... you just won't get all the fancy deck-crew stuff with the standard ones.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on February 24, 2024, 04:13:13 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I have download and installed the basic DCS with the TF51 and the Su24 (whatever that is called) and I was thinking to get the pack of a bunch of planes all in one. I know they're not as hi-fi as the other ones but I think it might be a good place to start because I don't really know what I want. lol
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 04:56:30 PM
It's a good choice. You'll need to map the various controls but since they aren't full fidelity there aren't all that many. Be sure to check the axis mappings on each plane. The default mappings for the axis are almost never right. You want only one physical axis per virtual axis.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM
I also recommend joining a squad if you want to advance your skills and make new friends while doing it. There are many to choose from with varying levels of seriousness. I don't belong to one currently but some here can likely recommend one.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 06:10:21 PM
I also recommend joining a squad if you want to advance your skills and make new friends while doing it. There are many to choose from with varying levels of seriousness. I don't belong to one currently but some here can likely recommend one.
I've never been part of a squad either. Don't get sucked into the Grim Reapers haha.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 06:10:57 PM
Yep. Carrier Ops adds an entire other level of goodness. To clarify, you do not NEED/HAVE to have the SuperCarrier... you just won't get all the fancy deck-crew stuff with the standard ones.
Corsair and Essex class are going to be funner'er. :D
Thanks for all the advice. I have download and installed the basic DCS with the TF51 and the Su24 (whatever that is called) and I was thinking to get the pack of a bunch of planes all in one. I know they're not as hi-fi as the other ones but I think it might be a good place to start because I don't really know what I want. lol
Good choice. Those will be good transition step toward full fidelity. They just recently upgraded the textures I think.
Check out those mods too at some point. At least try out the free blackhawk mod and take a walk on the wild side. :t
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 24, 2024, 06:18:46 PM
. Can somebody give me a recommendation as to what to buy? I'd like to get the best bang for the buck. Also, do I buy them in the game or on the website like IL2?
Just buy the Uh-1H and the F-86
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 06:25:11 PM
You guys have ventured way beyond ridiculous. You don’t even play this game.
Low-lifes
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 06:27:57 PM
Here ya go idiots
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 06:28:59 PM
You guys have ventured way beyond ridiculous. You don’t even play this game.
Low-lifes
.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 06:31:18 PM
I was hyped for the F-86 and bought it 10 years ago. The physics defying AI Mig-15 dampened my enthusiasm. If we ever get a terrain that encompasses both Koreas I'm back in.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 06:33:36 PM
Competition is good. A little sweat on a companies brow as they look over their shoulder at a competitor gaining on them gets the best performance out of everyone.
I think they are watching Combat Pilot with some concern and that will motivate them to not leave the Pacific niche wide open.
I'm expecting the Corsair\Essex is this year.
I tell you what. I'll make you a wager.
If the DCS Corsair releases this year, you purchase it as a gift for me. If it doesn't come out until 2044, I'll purchase it as a gift for you.
;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 08:30:13 PM
Nope! ;)
Anyway, I get a quesy feeling regarding Magnitude 3. Something ain't right... The Eagle STILL feels like a Mod. in 2019 they were "hard at work" on the F8. Then last year for an update they posted pix of the "pilot model" and I think a torn up one at a museum that "will be great for damage modeling". Now it's totally on the back burner, while they decideded to overhaul the Mig-21 while working on the F4? They seem to be good at... or forced to, find stuff to talk about without actually doing anything noteworthy. I ain't being all bad omen here, but I am. If not for the Hawk debacle... I wouldn't think much of it. But because of the Hawk debacle, I know that ED can be ridiculously difficult to work with as a 3rd Party dev.
So, if the F4 pops up, friggin Hooray! I want that one more than anything else on the horizon. But, If not, I won't be entirely surprised.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 08:40:09 PM
That is probably the best point of view. I mean we have both seen how DCS projects can get delayed. Cough*Kiowa*Cough.
That is the difference between rational flightsim fans and zealot, irrational fanbois.
:salute
DCS is a boring pile of junk. You know it too. I’d like to know who is giving you what to fo this childish crap. You have dome serious OCD issues. OR you’re getting sonething out of it by one of two parties. The game is a bucket of bugs and sll 5 of you are lying your butts off to dkim players. Pathedic children
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 09:17:19 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 09:20:40 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 09:25:26 PM
Their programming has turned into subpar swiss cheese. They have 100 times more bugs that aircraft.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 09:26:55 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 24, 2024, 09:29:02 PM
since the merger it runs great trips. Have you played since the patch/merger?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 09:29:35 PM
Just a lil OCD Trips? Asking for a psychologist friend.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 09:30:16 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 09:32:11 PM
I was hyped for the F-86 and bought it 10 years ago. The physics defying AI Mig-15 dampened my enthusiasm. If we ever get a terrain that encompasses both Koreas I'm back in.
you should re-visit the Sabre. I use the John Glenn livery, that says Mig Mad Marine.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 09:34:14 PM
DCS is a boring pile of junk. You know it too. I’d like to know who is giving you what to fo this childish crap. You have dome serious OCD issues. OR you’re getting sonething out of it by one of two parties. The game is a bucket of bugs and sll 5 of you are lying your butts off to dkim players. Pathedic children
Ahh well, to each his own. I'm certainly not bored with it and haven't noticed a bug in quite awhile. I mostly like it because I can decide to fly whatever era I want AFTER having to put a little effort into understanding how the aircraft & weapons system works. (there's even a WWI mod)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 24, 2024, 09:37:11 PM
you should re-visit the Sabre. I use the John Glenn livery, that says Mig Mad Marine.
I was > < close to getting it on the sale. Always loved the F-86 looks.
Just have too much stuff already sitting in the hangar I haven't learned yet.
I'd get the Kiowa if it drops (stop laughing). I'll get any of the warbirds that drop.
I may wait on the F-4. I'll let everyone get all the bugs worked out and a first patch released and youtube full of tutes first. ;) At least I was smart enough not to pre-order this time. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 24, 2024, 09:43:59 PM
I did preorder the F-4E. I trust Heatblur to deliver. I'll definitely buy the F4U.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 24, 2024, 09:46:15 PM
I may wait on the F-4. I'll let everyone get all the bugs worked out and a first patch released and youtube full of tutes first. ;) At least I was smart enough not to pre-order this time. ;)
Yep... I'm done. Had to move the game to a new drive as I ran out of room. 550+ Gigs lol. I'll only get the stuff I "really" want from now on. To be honest though, the only stuff I regret is the C101/L39/Hawk, and I actually fly the 39 occassionally.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 10:24:57 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 10:28:36 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on February 24, 2024, 10:32:31 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 25, 2024, 07:38:21 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I have download and installed the basic DCS with the TF51 and the Su24 (whatever that is called) and I was thinking to get the pack of a bunch of planes all in one. I know they're not as hi-fi as the other ones but I think it might be a good place to start because I don't really know what I want. lol
Hazmatt, don't forget the free A-4E. Full fidelity and you can use it with the free aircraft carriers that are available in DCS (USS Stennis and USS Forrestal). There are also several multiplayer servers that host the A-4E. When you can land the A-4E on a carrier or air to air refuel you will be over the major learning curve (for fixed wing) in DCS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 25, 2024, 07:44:07 AM
These guys take their modeling research seriously. Always liked the Super Sabre.
Yep... I'm done. Had to move the game to a new drive as I ran out of room. 550+ Gigs lol. I'll only get the stuff I "really" want from now on. To be honest though, the only stuff I regret is the C101/L39/Hawk, and I actually fly the 39 occassionally.
Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump them numbers up!!!
last I checked I was at 700+GB. And that is mostly maps.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 25, 2024, 08:09:36 AM
Several years ago I was up to a terabyte with map downloads for X-Plane. DCS does plan for a world wide map but I'm betting we won't see it this decade.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 25, 2024, 08:19:47 AM
Several years ago I was up to a terabyte with map downloads for X-Plane. DCS does plan for a world wide map but I'm betting we won't see it this decade.
I just want to Southeast Asia map they said is in line. They are about to release the KOLA map.
Having F4 Vs Mig-21, Mig-19 fights is gonna be awesome.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 25, 2024, 08:30:27 AM
Did you use the standard hosebib or the new Aquor's?
Whatever came in the kit. ;)
The kitchen one was easy-peasy. Just the faucet.
The first bathroom one was a pain. No room to get in underneath. Couldn't figure out how to disassemble the old drain stems with the plunger lever. Not a damn thing in the "Engrish" instructions. Finally worked out what I needed to do but then couldn't reassembly the P-Trap section again. Finally figured out with the new set, I had to cut off an inch on the old PVC to get it to fit.
So I'm hoping the other 3 bathroom sink will go the same so hoping that will go smooth.
All in all, I hate plumbing. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 25, 2024, 08:35:15 AM
Welcome to my world. I can swap out a Lav faucet in under 15 mins after 30 years experience.
I thought you were doing outside hosebibs.
https://www.aquorwatersystems.com/
I need to. The ones there now suck. Not even connected to the brick. Just pex look line with a hosebib stuck on. Hanging out in space. lol. And they leak like a sieve when turned on with a hose on them. Needs new valve packing I guess. Hmmm those aquors are sick. I'd love those. I will probably leave those for a plumber.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 25, 2024, 09:27:52 AM
Funny thing, lived in Idaho for about 16 years before moving back to Texas last year. Many sub zero nights and days in Idaho. Never had a pipe burst. Always had our sprinkler system blown out beginning of winter. We neglected to have our sprinkler system here blown out or turned off and dang if the pvc coming out of the ground for the backflow valve didn't burst. Easy fix though. Next year we'll have it blown out or do it myself if no one does that here.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on February 25, 2024, 10:37:31 AM
Only time my pipe burst, power was off 32 hours. Drained pipes but not blown out. Burst over my office....over $17,000 damage. Bought a Generac since then.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 25, 2024, 11:28:37 AM
Only time my pipe burst, power was off 32 hours. Drained pipes but not blown out. Burst over my office....over $17,000 damage. Bought a Generac since then.
I remember that. You absence was felt in MNM!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 25, 2024, 01:02:39 PM
Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump them numbers up!!!
last I checked I was at 700+GB. And that is mostly maps.
I own everything ED has to offer. I don't keep all the Mod stuff installed, just install as needed. Number may have been low as I uninstalled the a couple of the toejamty hangar queens & S. Atlantic while trying to do the stupidly large update on Friday.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 25, 2024, 01:07:41 PM
Hoping I can mount 4 underwing gun pods for some serious "get some".
I have a feeling this one is going to be one of those Regretabuys. Except for the novelty.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 26, 2024, 04:36:56 PM
I enjoyed the F-14 a lot but I had joined a group that took it pretty seriously. This was before I became mostly retired and found I didn't have the time to keep up with the training so we parted ways. I think if you can find a squad with interest in flying the aircraft as it was flown irl you'll get more out of it than an occasional quick mission.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 27, 2024, 08:35:54 AM
man. DCS has strengths and weaknesses like any piece of software, but sometimes I am blown away by level of graphics it can achieve. I need to try some of those settings. I think I have enough hardware, I just hadn't had time to figure out how to optimize. Still look damn good with jsut the twiddling I have done.
People will tell you that graphics don't matter.
I think they matter a great deal in attracting potential new customers to your platform. To me, they matter a great deal in increasing my sense of emersion and the suspension of disbelief.
It's not the only thing you need. But it sure is better to have great graphics than not. Especially from a Sales\ "Curb Appeal" point of view.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Shuffler on February 28, 2024, 02:59:28 AM
When I just want to fly around I do MSFS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 28, 2024, 10:40:12 AM
When I want to exercise precision flying, and not kill anyone but the tanker, I do some air refueling.
Put a tanker in an orbit, add some weather, at night, no labels, no map. Take off with a quarter tank. Find the tanker and get some gas.
"When you can take the pebble...."
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on February 29, 2024, 07:47:23 AM
I thought this was interesting. Wonder if this would work with AH or IL-2?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 29, 2024, 07:51:39 AM
All true..just found it funny stashed in the middle of a thread describing the realism of AHs competition
Eagler
There is no competition. Aces High is Airbourne Minecraft in comparison. One person keeps bringing up bugs that DCS USED to have, like Aces High didn't have a ton of bugs on its way to what it is now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on February 29, 2024, 04:58:07 PM
There is no competition. Aces High is Airbourne Minecraft in comparison. One person keeps bringing up bugs that DCS USED to have, like Aces High didn't have a ton of bugs on its way to what it is now.
Sure, no competition at all if all you want to do is fly around and look at the pretty graphics.
On the other hand if you want to be on a team against 40-50 other players then AH is where you want to be, because there isnt any competition when it comes to all out battles on the Land Sea, and Air! :neener:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on February 29, 2024, 05:02:12 PM
Sure, no competition at all if all you want to do is fly around and look at the pretty graphics.
On the other hand if you want to be on a team against 40-50 other players then AH is where you want to be, because there isnt any competition when it comes to all out battles on the Land Sea, and Air! :neener:
with three countries, and the crying about that is never ending. Some of you have had limited experience with DCS and shows. Go in Enigmas cold war server, Growling sidewinders servers for example. 24/7 non stop fighting. On average there is 2,000+ active players at all times. US server, Europe servers, Chinese servers.
I myself was raised on Aces High PvP and that is all I want to do now. And there is a lot of action out there.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 29, 2024, 05:11:11 PM
with three countries, and the crying about that is never ending. Some of you have had limited experience with DCS and shows. Go in Enigmas cold war server, Growling sidewinders servers for example. 24/7 non stop fighting. On average there is 2,000+ active players at all times. US server, Europe servers, Chinese servers.
I myself was raised on Aces High PvP and that is all I want to do now. And there is a lot of action out there.
Flying the same 2-3 planes. Super fun!
I tried it, wasn’t for me. Don’t care for jets or other stuff it has. I used to play Lock On a lot in my youth but I over it I guess.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 29, 2024, 05:13:04 PM
Brother and I just spent a couple hours today HARMing SAM sites and Missiling Migs in Vipers. Then couple hours doing carrier landings in Hornets. We enjoy that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on February 29, 2024, 05:34:08 PM
Brother and I just spent a couple hours today HARMing SAM sites and Missiling Migs in Vipers. Then couple hours doing carrier landings in Hornets. We enjoy that sort of thing.
But that is PvE, which is just practice to me if you're not looking over your shoulder.
Dadtallica, I have over 1,000 hours in the UH-1H and it never gets old. The Huey module costs $50 but is well worth 100 times that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 29, 2024, 06:03:33 PM
I used to enjoy PvP more and still do to a lesser degree. Teaming with real people against AI has less drama.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on February 29, 2024, 06:06:22 PM
But that is PvE, which is just practice to me if you're not looking over your shoulder.
Dadtallica, I have over 1,000 hours in the UH-1H and it never gets old. The Huey module costs $50 but is well worth 100 times that.
Not for me thanks.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on February 29, 2024, 06:52:10 PM
I bought the F-18 module long ago but haven't spent much time in it. Discovered today that when the takeoff procedure says "half flaps" it means half flaps. Not auto, not full. My Warthog throttle has a three position switch which is read on startup. In case you run into this:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on February 29, 2024, 07:32:43 PM
with three countries, and the crying about that is never ending. Some of you have had limited experience with DCS and shows. Go in Enigmas cold war server, Growling sidewinders servers for example. 24/7 non stop fighting. On average there is 2,000+ active players at all times. US server, Europe servers, Chinese servers.
I myself was raised on Aces High PvP and that is all I want to do now. And there is a lot of action out there.
2000+ players over how many servers? 1000 maybe :rolleyes:
How come you dont see you tube videos of all kinds of action in DSC? At most I have seen are a couple planes fighting a couple of planes with horrible tactics, missed shots, and when they do score hits, very little looking damage.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 01, 2024, 12:29:51 AM
Why is it so important to tell the others what they must like? There are different tastes and opinions, but looks like woke has woken even here.
All true..just found it funny stashed in the middle of a thread describing the realism of AHs competition
Eagler
Yeah, I thought it was interesting. Most of us have spent A LOT of money on HOTAS set-ups. When you consider having to shuffle flight controls, views, and mouse clicks, I am surprised doing it with an XBOX controller is possible. That said, there is no way I would give up my Virpil throttle, joystick, and rudder pedals.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 01, 2024, 08:53:40 AM
Using a HOTAS vs an XBox controller in a flight sim is comparable to using a mouse vs an XBox controller in a shooter. You just don't have the fine control with a short joystick.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 01, 2024, 09:12:45 AM
That said, it is pretty easy to make an arduino joystick using cheap game controller type joysticks to stick on to your throttle or stick. Made one for my brother to stick onto the old X-55 throttle I gave him a while back. Gives him a joystick for the cursor on MFDs. Funny, he has a 4090 and Pimax Crystal but too cheap to buy a decent throttle. He'll probably go with Virpil for all eventually. ;)
Anyone wants help making one of those lemme know.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 01, 2024, 10:03:33 AM
Here's what I used. 3M double sided tape to mount them and hot glue to secure the connectors. Add a label "Resistance is futile". ;)
2000+ players over how many servers? 1000 maybe :rolleyes:
How come you dont see you tube videos of all kinds of action in DSC? At most I have seen are a couple planes fighting a couple of planes with horrible tactics, missed shots, and when they do score hits, very little looking damage.
This just means your googlefu is weak, expand your search parameters.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 01, 2024, 02:44:46 PM
I won a free module last night. Went to chucks guide to start the learning process.
Made me think of this thread. Just going through this page is a lot and most won't put the time in for something like this as far as learning. Reminds me of how far we have come in gaming.
My first flight sim ever was Aces High. I left in 2011 and came back in 2020 without ever having looked at another flight sim. So, when I came back aces high was the sheeeeet and nothing was better. After checking out DCS and realizing I could fly the Huey I was skeptical. But it was so crazy that I could flip switches in the cockpit, and mapping each module to my controller. Now there is no turning back to a lesser game no matter who is in there playing it.
https://chucksguides.com/aircraft/dcs/ka-50/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 01, 2024, 03:35:54 PM
Did this one today.
Mission Possible.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 01, 2024, 03:54:04 PM
I won a free module last night. Went to chucks guide to start the learning process.
Made me think of this thread. Just going through this page is a lot and most won't put the time in for something like this as far as learning. Reminds me of how far we have come in gaming.
My first flight sim ever was Aces High. I left in 2011 and came back in 2020 without ever having looked at another flight sim. So, when I came back aces high was the sheeeeet and nothing was better. After checking out DCS and realizing I could fly the Huey I was skeptical. But it was so crazy that I could flip switches in the cockpit, and mapping each module to my controller. Now there is no turning back to a lesser game no matter who is in there playing it.
https://chucksguides.com/aircraft/dcs/ka-50/
Had the Ka-50 since day one... flown it every bit of twice.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 01, 2024, 05:34:55 PM
Handles really well out the gate. Got some serious weapons systems on it. I would look at it again.
I still have to learn the Apache & Hind. I've done about as much with those as I have the KA. Which is odd, but... I kinda fell in love with the Huey. Doing CSAR on Enigma's is more fun than I ever had dogfighting... and I actually had a dogfight with a freekin Mi-8 once. That was hilarious. Ended up ramming him. :devil
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 01, 2024, 08:50:14 PM
I still have to learn the Apache & Hind. I've done about as much with those as I have the KA. Which is odd, but... I kinda fell in love with the Huey. Doing CSAR on Enigma's is more fun than I ever had dogfighting... and I actually had a dogfight with a freekin Mi-8 once. That was hilarious. Ended up ramming him. :devil
What is your callsign? I fly the UH-1H in Enigmas many hour
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 02, 2024, 12:37:39 AM
What is your callsign? I fly the UH-1H in Enigmas many hour
"Cooter"
Give me a yell. I haven't been in there in quite awhile. (check PMs)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 02, 2024, 07:50:06 AM
Friend and I do a 1v1 hunting mission with Apache vs. Gazelle (ode to the movie "Firebirds"). We fly in a small sector of a map with lots of canyons that has been broken down into nine sectors. Whenever the Gazelle enters a sector the Apache is given a message which sector he is in. The Gazelle is armed with IR missiles and the Apache with guns and Hellfires. Only rule is no hovering.
Lots of fun and just another example of what can be done with the mission editor.
We fly the Apache co-op and I have become fairly adept at the front seat. Still prefer flying the Huey though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 02, 2024, 08:02:17 AM
Friend and I do a 1v1 hunting mission with Apache vs. Gazelle (ode to the movie "Firebirds"). We fly in a small sector of a map with lots of canyons that has been broken down into nine sectors. Whenever the Gazelle enters a sector the Apache is given a message which sector he is in. The Gazelle is armed with IR missiles and the Apache with guns and Hellfires. Only rule is no hovering.
Lots of fun and just another example of what can be done with the mission editor.
We fly the Apache co-op and I have become fairly adept at the front seat. Still prefer flying the Huey though.
The Fox's
Fox--1- Semi-Active radar homing missle
Fox--2- Infared Homing Missle
Fox--3- Active radar homing missle
Fox--4- You crash into the enemy
Fox--5- Use your skids to take out enemy helo's blades
Fox--6- The Enemy fires a missle at you and it hits the enemy helo your flying in front of
Fox--7- Making the enemy auger while trying to kill you
Fox--8- Hiding while being chased, then re-emerging as the enemy flys by killing the enemy helo Aka The Firebirds Move
Fox--9-Using flares to disable the enemys engine
Fox--10--Parts from your destroyed helicopter take out the enemy helicopter
Fox--11--Getting a enemy helo to crash into another enemy helo while trying to get you Aka The 3 Stooges Move
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 08:05:31 AM
Brother was flying the A model Apache when Firebirds came out. Asked him what he thought about the movie. He said it was embarrassing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 02, 2024, 08:12:21 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 11:31:51 AM
So, through videos, I looked at the terrain. It looks like 90s graphics. I was extremely surprised that all that work in cockpits, it appears almost no effort on the terrain. In about 7 videos, I personally didn’t see any as good as AH. Some of what I saw was actually a bad joke. I could not believe I was looking at DCS. The god of graphics, is not really a god at all, except the AC.
Yall lost respect for the stunt here. The only conclusion I have, you’re here because things aren’t all that great there.
Players are starting to pick at the game. And the same defense here is the same defense there. What I saw is, the forum is sterile, the terrain not that great up close. All it really has going is AC graphics and missing the big picture.
My time there made me love AH even more, even without future dev in the future. AH is a whole sphere, DCS is only a slice of the sphere. Thats why you’re here running a 50 page of convincing people to like what they aren’t that thrilled about, against their will. Its like you’re convincing people to think fools gold is real gold, when ya know its not.
Pretty sad. It made you turn on your own home. If I notice it, I could bet 50 others did too.
For 50+ pages, ya got almost nothing out of it, Only 10% of AH players use the bbs, and only a few of those responded. You may have got one to try it. And they seem to have come back home.
Insanity, is when one keeps doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results that never come. Ya got what you were going to get years ago. This thread, is the act of panicl.
Trips made points there about Steam in comparing games, yet, refuses the reality that steam also shows the loss of almost 2k within a few months.
Their peak is over, and this thread is sad, yielding no results. Our numbers are slowly coming up with return players, while DCS is losing theirs. There’s no more growth.
This thread smells of desperation. Desperate people, do desperate things.
What I saw in close up terrain, was sad. Looks great from far away, not so much up close. I’m good with everything looking good over one thing looking great. Several games look better in that respect.
IMO DCS is great, because the players convinced themselves it’s great. People see ghost that are not there, because they chose to see ghost that are not there. Now they are trying to convince us to see ghost that are not there. Sad.
To each their own.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 11:58:34 AM
This is a 2019 video comparing DCS and IL2. I think it is spot on, fair, and pretty much can directly replace anytime he says "IL2" with "Aces High" and the argument still holds.
I'll keep this vid link for when I am trying to explain to some one the difference.
I expect Combat Pilot will be closer to DCS than IL2 in fidelity. At least that is what they have been communicating as their intent.
(The main point to this vid is, IMHO, they are hard to compare. Apples and oranges. One is not really the competitor to the other even when they overlap airframes. They can be complementary. You move to one or the other depending on what you are wanting to do. They play both regularly. )
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 12:28:05 PM
You’ve been in self-convincing mode for a long time. You’ve gained nothing. To the rest of us, the ghost just aren’t there. But you convinced yourself to see many. You’re not convincing us, you are convincing yourself. And now you’ve gone on so long you made yourself the uncle no longer invited to Thanksgiving dinner at home.
If the game was that much better, you would have been successful in one page.
You’ve found 1000 ways to say the same thing differently in 1000 posts, gaining near nothing. Its fubar. Some points you avoid at all cost in 1000 posts.
It truly is like a used car salesman who won’t let us look under the hood to see if it has an engine. Its a lemon car. You keep trying to sell appkes to an orange loving crowd, and failing, just to try it again.
You’re stuck in self-convincing mode.
I would go to IL-2 before even touching DCS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 12:41:34 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 12:50:06 PM
You want a reality check?
Look at how many viewed this thread, and look at how many you convinced. That’s less than .001.
Thats reality. You had the biggest chance ever, and gained nothing. This thread is proof you should check yourself. Your dream is not being met despite your over 1000 post about it. Our choice to stay is not our problem, you lack of success is yours. Maybe you should reconsider your loss.
Talking about other games is ok. Obsession with sales is different. It doesn’t bother me. You’ve popped no balloons. No free planes.
Its just not going to happen. It didn’t work in AW either. It had to close before AH got the biggest migration in its genre. Expect the same results. And because of the style of play, IL-2 is mire likely to get that. I just don’t like giving my money to an adversary’s game. I like American made. I’ll bronze my 16 yr old stick, and put it on the mantle.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 12:50:39 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 12:51:25 PM
Sometimes, reality is hard to accept. We’re here til the end.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 12:54:28 PM
Masters of the Air - Frame 5, the epic grand finale tonight. The biggest scenario response in 7 years. Up to 115+ players.
Saddle up. Show us what ya got
20k furball
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 02, 2024, 01:10:58 PM
This is a 2019 video comparing DCS and IL2. I think it is spot on, fair, and pretty much can directly replace anytime he says "IL2" with "Aces High" and the argument still holds.
I'll keep this vid link for when I am trying to explain to some one the difference.
I expect Combat Pilot will be closer to DCS than IL2 in fidelity. At least that is what they have been communicating as their intent.
(The main point to this vid is, IMHO, they are hard to compare. Apples and oranges. One is not really the competitor to the other even when they overlap airframes. They can be complementary. You move to one or the other depending on what you are wanting to do. They play both regularly. )
Is combat pilot going take as long as other games?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 01:20:18 PM
Combat Pot is going to have a hard time straight out of the box, its designed as a one track train. It will take years just to get started, it will be 7-10 years before they expand outside that one track PTO train. Goid graphics headed in the wrong direction. I’d love to be wrong, i doubt I am.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 01:22:12 PM
Is combat pilot going take as long as other games?
The progress I've seen seems a bit further along than I had expected. Still, it's not immeninent.
They are going to build the SP half first. That's smart IMHO. SP out-numbers MP by a lot. Maybe 10x. Williams had lots of RL internal market data from his experience with GB and he confirms this. So fleshing out SP first, * Builds a much larger player-base that drives discussion and hype about the game (e.g. videos, discussion of the game, word of mouth), * Provides a "farm league" that might move to MP once they have built confidence. * Provides a steady, reliable revenue source that funds your MP efforts (Building the SP already build about 80% of what your MP as well).
IMHO, having a viable SP component is one of the big advantages IL2 and DCS have over AH.
Last I heard is that Williams was predicting around 5 yr timeline to complete SP, then start on MP. It seemed suggested that they may be leveraging a third party developer model like ED and Heatblur so that could accelerate things as multiple teams can work in parallel.
So still way off, but interesting to watch.
Maybe the real signifigance to CP is what effect it is having on current products development plans getting ready for possibly a major new competitor. Williams has a proven track record. Hitech proved you can sometimes build a better game starting from a clean page rather than hauling along old technical debt. I don't doubt Williams will be able to tap into large VC money once he is ready to fully utilize it. i.e. Gets out of the fuzzy front-end of development to where the intended direction and roadmap can be more confidently communicated.
I don't think IL2 and ED are "scared" yet. But they'd be fools not to watch with interest and maybe make some adjustments to their own roadmaps to get ready. This won't be some plucky indy game trying to make in-roads. I think he will end up with money backing him.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 01:42:40 PM
The progress I've seen seems a bit further along than I had expected. Still, it's not immeninent.
They are going to build the SP half first. That's smart IMHO. SP out-numbers MP by a lot. Maybe 10x. Williams had lots of RL internal market data from his experience with GB and he confirms this. So fleshing out SP first, * Builds a much larger player-base that drives discussion and hype about the game (e.g. videos, discussion of the game, word of mouth), * Provides a "farm league" that might move to MP once they have built confidence. * Provides a steady, reliable revenue source that funds your MP efforts (Building the SP already build about 80% of what your MP as well).
IMHO, having a viable SP component is one of the big advantages IL2 and DCS have over AH.
Last I heard is that Williams was predicting around 5 yr timeline to complete SP, then start on MP. It seemed suggested that they may be leveraging a third party developer model like ED and Heatblur so that could accelerate things as multiple teams can work in parallel.
So still way off, but interesting to watch.
In sales, there can’t be much worse than over-selling what doesn’t exist yet. This sets up for disappointment when expectations are too high.
Even IF it comes to fruition, its still a one track train. To keep finances up for that long, with no revenue, it can end up trashed before it gets there. HT and Pyro did it right, give em what ya got so far and get the revenue stream going to support dev.
People can be very intelligent, yet lack common sense. Dies anyone think they can go 5 yrs without income?
That said, HT and Pyro had this game up and running in one year. Because they are that good. I wouldn’t expect everyone to be as good as them. Its a bench mark few meet.
In 5-10 yrs I will be dead and in the ground.
Good luck. I may never see it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 02, 2024, 01:45:07 PM
IMHO, having a viable SP component is one of the big advantages IL2 and DCS have over AH.
I agree, but don't discount variety.
Yesterday, I had a four hour flying session in DCS. I started with Banklers carrier training mission in my F/A-18. After about six traps, I switched to "Instant Action" and flew P-51s/Spitfires dogfighting against A/I Me109s. Then F-86 against A/I Migs. Members of the group I fly with on Fridays started showing up on Teamspeak, so I hosted a multi-player server. We all goofed around flying Apaches vs. Hueys guns only (with a lot of joking and laughing on vox). Once all the group was present we started a serious mission with three, two-manned, Apaches flying against A/I in challenging weather/terrain. All of us were shot down/crashed at least once and a good time was had by all on vox.
When I was an "AH only" player I had the following mantras: 1) I don't like jets.."They suck and blow". 2) I don't like helicopters..."Flying them is like standing on a beach ball." 3) I don't like fighting A/I..."Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living is something else."
Funny how preconceived notions can change.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 01:48:13 PM
Someone say terrain?
I just made a tour of the various DCS terrains.
Downsized to 1080 which youtube is still processing. I really don't like what clipchamp did to that video, fuzzy.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 02, 2024, 02:12:54 PM
So, through videos, I looked at the terrain. It looks like 90s graphics. I was extremely surprised that all that work in cockpits, it appears almost no effort on the terrain. In about 7 videos, I personally didn’t see any as good as AH. Some of what I saw was actually a bad joke. I could not believe I was looking at DCS. The god of graphics, is not really a god at all, except the AC.
This is actually hilarious. What are you using to look, a 3dfx Voodoo3?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 02, 2024, 02:23:59 PM
I think the old one is better... which is not hard to get ahold of. Don't really care anymore as OBS / Davinci is just too easy.
I have the Photos Legacy editor and it is better. Going to try the free version of Davinci. Will replace that video on youtube if better.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 04:07:03 PM
When I exported that video from Davinci I didn't see an option for the res I run DCS at, 2560x1440. So I exported 4K. Will be interesting to see what it does with that. There's probably a setting somewhere to change that. The exported movie looks much better than what Clip Champs did. Of course youtube does it's own processing thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 02, 2024, 04:16:21 PM
I saw what I saw. Now, that said, I would hope is has to do with graphic detail turned down. Most were darkwood vids.
I’m not obligated to bite your hook. I saw what I saw. And it was sad.
You 4 are making no ground here, please continue. Edited: btw, I use a RTX 3060ti.
Not looking to make ground, I don't care which direction anyone goes... this is an old, old, hangout with good people in it. AH is still fine and dandy for anyone who wants to engage. The graphics in any game don't turn me on, the gameplay & style does. And, I lean hard toward the Sim end and am slightly repulsed by the "Game" end. In fact, it's not even that... it's the "Game-ER" end that repulses me. I got almost 20yrs out of AH, and I appreciate that. The game itself did not turn me away... the gam-ers, the game-the-game styles, Lag-bandits & never-ending-energy stuff etc, that's what burned my excitement. Certain attitudes and most certainly certain players (nobody in this thread unless there's a shade I don't know about) burned AH for me. It's not like I never had anything else. I ~always~ had every version of every flightsim (that I knew about) I could get my mitts on to kick around, and I did. After Air Warrior, AH kept my interest for a long while. LockOn MAC was promising as toejam... in 2000 or whenever. IL-2 (the various versions) took a long while to become incredible, but they did.
The key (IMO) difference between the two as compared to IL-2 & DCS, AH is Easy-Mode from the ground up. And that's fine... but if it makes you feel better, it's also why I balk at the idea of WarThunder. DCS is literally "difficult"... a lot of people don't like that. In fact most people will always choose the path of least resistance. I like learning toejam, doing different things, and a challenge. Long ago I lost any interest in Dogfighting my way to chest thumping glory.... it's useless. There are WAY too man "Game Theory" enthusiasts who have no interest in anything other than being the best ~by whatever means necessary~.
The difference in graphics between DCS & AH is more than noticable. My rig is no speed-demon by current standards, it's a 3080ti sitting on a 3950x with 64g of budget Ram. I have graphics cranked pretty high in DCS, trees & grass stuff turned down a bit, with shadows on (that I hate) running 2560x1440. It's not bad at all. AH isn't bad at all, EITHER (last time I ran it). But they are noticably different with DCS light-years ahead regarding detail IF you want it that way. If you really want to see what DCS can do, go check Jabbers video about "Breathtaking Graphics".. and ya, he had a monster (IIRC).
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 02, 2024, 04:56:18 PM
My vids look like that because I have the game stripped down for VR performance.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 05:04:14 PM
I don't use VR and have everything just about maxed out. Runs fine with a 3070, 5800X3D, 65GB RAM, and Gen 4 SSD. Youtube just finished processing my redo of the terrain video I made earlier today. Looks much better.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 05:07:20 PM
My vids look like that because I have the game stripped down for VR performance.
Honestly, dude, just admit it. The terrain is so bad in DCS, it's embarrassing.
It looks like...Minecraft. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 05:18:26 PM
The only valid argument for AH3 over IL-2 or DCS is the mostly well stocked multiplayer server. Other arguments are weak and easily disputed. But, ready to go multiplayer is a good argument. No need for another.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 05:22:57 PM
The only valid argument for AH3 over IL-2 or DCS is the mostly well stocked multiplayer server. Other arguments are weak and easily disputed. But, ready to go multiplayer is a good argument. No need for another.
Not only that, but I doubt their server implementation is designed to support as many players as HTC server tech. They just weren't designed for that from page 1. AH was.
Enigma's server used to be pegged at 84 players, with a line waiting to get in. But they were having a lot of trouble with that. They have been pulling that back to 60. DCS server is an insane memory hog. I shudder to think of the mem usage with 80 players.
They can eventually improve that, but they are not there now. I suspect some serious redesign would be required.
I'd love to see DCS client on HTC server tech.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 05:41:46 PM
Way back in the early 20 aughts I told Curly I thought IL-2 looked better than AH. We had a friendly disagreement. I told him then I wouldn't mind seeing HTC merge with IL-2 for the AH server.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 02, 2024, 05:46:26 PM
Way back in the early 20 aughts I told Curly I thought IL-2 looked better than AH. We had a friendly disagreement. I told him then I wouldn't mind seeing HTC merge with IL-2 for the AH server.
Or Combat Pilot with VC deep pockets just buys HTC server tech to leap frog development instead of starting from scratch. And HT gets a retirement exit strategy.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 05:47:18 PM
If Hitech got permission to alter the DCS server code, eliminating traffic he thought unnecessary, and optimizing the rest, he might find an audience willing to pay.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 02, 2024, 06:19:23 PM
This is a video from the 104th server. PvP quick fights and lots of fight to be had.
Persian gulf map looks great even with my settings low for VR
https://youtu.be/a0B1qaHxRYk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 02, 2024, 06:55:12 PM
In fact, it's not even that... it's the "Game-ER" end that repulses me. I got almost 20yrs out of AH, and I appreciate that. The game itself did not turn me away... the gam-ers, the game-the-game styles, Lag-bandits & never-ending-energy stuff etc, that's what burned my excitement. Certain attitudes and most certainly certain players (nobody in this thread unless there's a shade I don't know about) burned AH for me.
In the Robin Olds book "Fighter Pilot" there is a passage I just came across:
"Fighter pilot is not just a description, it's an attitude; it's cockiness, it's aggressiveness, it's self-confidence. It is a streak of rebelliousness and competitiveness. But there's something else; there's a spark. There's a desire to be good, to do well in the eyes of your peers and your commander, and in your own mind, to be second to no one. The sky is your playground and competitiveness is your life."
AW, Warbirds, and AH each had this attitude running throughout it's player-base during their peak. Sadly for me, AH lost this attitude in the MA long ago. You can still find it in FSO and Monday Night Madness events, but those numbers keep dwindling. THAT was the only reason I started looking outside of AH and I was pretty sure it no longer existed. I am VERY happy that I was wrong and find that attitude alive and kicking in DCS. Again this is what I found FOR ME. Others still find that in AH, or IL-2 and that is great.
This genre should motivate you to read, watch documentaries, meet up with fellow players in person, go to air museums, all in a thirst to learn and get better. To settle for anything less is missing out. The only competition between AH, IL-2, or DCS is in its ability to inspire this in you personally.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 07:10:19 PM
An interlude
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 02, 2024, 07:34:55 PM
The only valid argument for AH3 over IL-2 or DCS is the mostly well stocked multiplayer server. Other arguments are weak and easily disputed. But, ready to go multiplayer is a good argument. No need for another.
Well, The Planeset rocks in AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 02, 2024, 07:47:57 PM
Yeah, there is that. The differences are more idealistic than realistic imo though.
That is an area I think ED is screwing up.
They have had such success with the FC3 as a feeder planeset. Cheap, easier. They should have every plane under the sun available in low fidelity FC3 level free with the base game. Then you can buy the High fidelity version to squeeze out the final bit of performance at an increased cost of money and effort. Not exactly pay-2-win. You still have to learn to use the high fidelity to get all the benefit. Like the difference will stall limiter and such on AH.
As far as I know, they are not planning any more low fidelity. They have decided high fidelity is their "brand". I get it. Especially for a company that makes a non-trivial portion of their income from military trainers. They want to maintain that top realism, high fidelity reputation. But the flip side it takes so long to get a plane developed.
In life and engineering, there are seldom pure solutions. Mostly just trade-offs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 03, 2024, 05:25:28 AM
As far as I know, they are not planning any more low fidelity. They have decided high fidelity is their "brand". I get it. Especially for a company that makes a non-trivial portion of their income from military trainers. They want to maintain that top realism, high fidelity reputation. But the flip side it takes so long to get a plane developed.
As late as last year, 9L was saying Modern Air Combat was still on the table. IF they ever do it... it'll take off, IF they keep adding platforms. I figure it's a back-burner thing for them, like a fallback in the event the current iteration of DCS takes a dump. Seem's like Wags may have made brief mention of it in an interview on C.W. Lemoine's Youboob. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/cb35c37d328ed364a2659581d6a2e62a/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 03, 2024, 05:53:24 AM
The numbers in MNM are actually growing lately
The AK'S have been showing up and it's been more of a blast than normal
Jaeger1 always keeps it fun
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 03, 2024, 07:31:54 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 05, 2024, 09:36:33 AM
Brother and I have been having much fun taking out the SA-3, SA-6 and SA-11 sites at Damascus and then taking on the Mig-21s launching there. You're too close to target them with the MFD. Switch to Dogfight override, lock them with boresight mode in your HMD at your 3 o'clock and fox 3. I had great fun dodging 3 SAMs yesterday while engaged with a Mig.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 05, 2024, 09:44:12 AM
It is exciting to put a SAM on your 3/9 line and wait for the right moment to break hard into him. Watching a near miss is exhilarating.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 05, 2024, 11:09:25 AM
Brother and I have been having much fun taking out the SA-3, SA-6 and SA-11 sites at Damascus and then taking on the Mig-21s launching there. You're too close to target them with the MFD. Switch to Dogfight override, lock them with boresight mode in your HMD at your 3 o'clock and fox 3. I had great fun dodging 3 SAMs yesterday while engaged with a Mig.
I shoot down aircraft (Mig-21, Su-25, Mirage, M2000) with the Huey. Dodge SAM's with it also.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 05, 2024, 12:17:11 PM
Whenever a toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queen stalks me to other forums to harass me, it just gives me the urge to post another cinematic. Maybe this will be useful to give certain people ideas on how to make better videos.
:rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 05, 2024, 12:26:56 PM
Just to pick a nit, the F-14 usually did not use the burner on a carrier takeoff.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 05, 2024, 12:28:50 PM
Just to pick a nit, the F-14 usually did not use the burner on a carrier takeoff.
The A models on the carriers I was on did. The temp would go up by 20 degrees on the flight deck even with the JBDs up and the wind over the deck.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 05, 2024, 12:50:10 PM
It may have been a later thing. The guys I flew with a few years ago claimed to have a couple of real life Tomcat pilots and they said no burner off the carrier or on land.
Of course they weren't always watching. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 05, 2024, 12:54:56 PM
Could have been the D cats too.
I don't recall seeing burners at the NAS.
Cheney killed the F14 and Grumman.(felt the need to add that for some reason)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 05, 2024, 12:58:29 PM
Just found this below. I think the movie Topgun used the A model. Heatblur first introduced the B model, then the A. I think.
"F-14A takeoffs/cat launches were done in AB. It was prohibited in the F-14B/D because the engines were more powerful and could cause uncontrollability if one didn’t light. At the end of a cat stroke or once in the air you can plug the AB just fine. Main concern appears to have been AB use when wheels were still on a surface."
It may have been a later thing. The guys I flew with a few years ago claimed to have a couple of real life Tomcat pilots and they said no burner off the carrier or on land.
Just found this below. I think the movie Topgun used the A model. Heatblur first introduced the B model, then the A. I think.
"F-14A takeoffs/cat launches were done in AB. It was prohibited in the F-14B/D because the engines were more powerful and could cause uncontrollability if one didn’t light. At the end of a cat stroke or once in the air you can plug the AB just fine. Main concern appears to have been AB use when wheels were still on a surface."
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 07, 2024, 07:57:59 AM
I sure would like to see a resurgence of this kind of hardware. Combined with VR and haptic seat pads this is the next step.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 08:32:09 AM
A few years ago someone was working on motion sensing through an earphone. Sound to create motion sensation. Never heard anymore about it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 07, 2024, 08:48:36 AM
Looked at dcs again last night for a bit
Channel map b17 interception...
In vr the bombers are very blurry brown smears until they are almost in firing range..
It was too blurry to enjoy
It that normal in vr?
Noticed my head can still poke out past the cockpit and you get the wind noise...that normal still?
Is that the best I can expect with a system like mine?
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 08:52:36 AM
There are hundreds of videos on tweaking VR for DCS. If you have a 4090 and a Pimax Crystal it can be clear as a bell and very smooth. What headset do you have?
One of the biggest impacting variables is the pixel density.
Just saw you have a Vive pro. With your other hardware you should be able to achieve a reasonably detailed clear screen with 40-50 FPS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 09:06:02 AM
Start with all antialiasing off. DLAA and DLSS off. Be sure you are running in multithreaded mode. If you don't have the option to turn on DLAA and DLSS then you are in singlethreaded mode. Turn off SSAO and SSLR. Set motion blur to lowest setting, depth of field off. On the VR tab increase the pixel density a point or two at a time until you get the clarity you want. Then adjust the detail of other aspects for speed. Without the most powerful hardware it's all a compromise of course. Try different settings until you find what you like.
Each map has it's own performance impact. Caucasus is probably the least demanding.
Regarding DLAA and DLSS. I meant try turning one of them on. You can't turn both on at the same time. If both are off and you can't turn either on then you are in singlethreaded mode. Run the DCS.exe from the bin-mt folder instead of the bin folder.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 07, 2024, 09:18:59 AM
It looks like you almost pulled it off. I seem to recall something about using only rudder and watching your AOA and staying away from the ailerons in this situation in the Tomcat.
It would be cool to figure out a way to pull it off. NATOPs probably says to go to military power I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 09:24:07 AM
It's a shame they shredded all those Tomcats when they retired them. I bet they kept a few. The rest were destroyed to keep the parts out of Iran.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 09:25:56 AM
It looks like you almost pulled it off. I seem to recall something about using only rudder and watching your AOA and staying away from the ailerons in this situation in the Tomcat.
It would be cool to figure out a way to pull it off. NATOPs probably says to go to military power I'm guessing.
If I had reduced to full mil after that first "recovery" I would have been okay I think. I was screaming like a little girl. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 07, 2024, 09:34:17 AM
In vr the bombers are very blurry brown smears until they are almost in firing range..
It was too blurry to enjoy
It that normal in vr?
Noticed my head can still poke out past the cockpit and you get the wind noise...that normal still?
Is that the best I can expect with a system like mine?
Eagler
Still using the Vive Pro?
Here is a link to some settings other use for the Vive Pro in DCS. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/272106-vive-pro-2/page/23/
You might also check this tutorial and play with these setting.
DCS allows more tweaking for VR than AH does. The downside of that is that it takes some more fiddling to get it right for you.
The best way to approach this is to pick one mission that is your benchmark. For me I use the f-18, coldstart, supercarrier launch, in the Persian Gulf. I don't start anything, just look around and watch the two hornets take off in front of me. Checking for smoothness and clarity.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 09:56:52 AM
It's a shame they shredded all those Tomcats when they retired them. I bet they kept a few. The rest were destroyed to keep the parts out of Iran.
Seems to me that Iran could (with a little Russian help) probably reverse engineer a new Tomcat if they wanted. I wonder what happened to all those phoenix missiles. I'm pretty sure that all that taxpayer money got wasted as it usually is with the government. I think it would have been cool to see the phoenix rise again on a new airframe, Maybe an "escort" version of the B1?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 07, 2024, 10:42:09 AM
In vr the bombers are very blurry brown smears until they are almost in firing range..
It was too blurry to enjoy
It that normal in vr?
Noticed my head can still poke out past the cockpit and you get the wind noise...that normal still?
Is that the best I can expect with a system like mine?
Eagler
In short Its just another thing you must tweak to force it to work properly. You’ll spend more time working on it than flying it. How cumbersome, like everything in DCS.
AH has THE BEST implementation of VR.
I’ve never seen such a fixation on self-convincing mode.
Ya basically have 4 guys on repeat mode, working over-time keeping a thread on top. , so they talk to themselves to do it.
(Yawn)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 10:44:29 AM
But it really bugs you so...
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 10:54:43 AM
Seems to me that Iran could (with a little Russian help) probably reverse engineer a new Tomcat if they wanted. I wonder what happened to all those phoenix missiles. I'm pretty sure that all that taxpayer money got wasted as it usually is with the government. I think it would have been cool to see the phoenix rise again on a new airframe, Maybe an "escort" version of the B1?
It turns out that Iran is shockingly inept technologically. The russians a little less so, when they are occasionally sober.
A few years back they announced an revolutionary new attack helicopter had been developed. Basically a Bell 206 chopped up with a welding torch and a paint job. Hang a irrigation pipe on it to hang some rockets off and call it revolutionary.
The amazing invincible Shahed!!!! (https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/0/6/9/1815960.jpg?v=v40)
I could see the ruskies and iranians duct taping together a walmart version F-14 clone. But that is jsut the beginning. It takes an entire maintenence and logistics supply capability to keep them operational that I doubt iranians are good at.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 07, 2024, 11:43:36 AM
Eagler (or anyone else seeking info), you might want to check out Discord. This is one of the more current ways players communicate about games. Not only does Discord serve as a forum, but it also has chat, voice, and video sharing. Sad that there is no AH Discord. Forums are left over for us old dudes! Here is a link to VR Vive settings.
https://discord.gg/mrXQKdNz
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 07, 2024, 11:52:11 AM
Eagler (or anyone else seeking info), you might want to check out Discord. This is one of the more current ways players communicate about games. Not only does Discord serve as a forum, but it also has chat, voice, and video sharing. Sad that there is no AH Discord. Forums are left over for us old dudes! Here is a link to VR Vive settings.
https://discord.gg/mrXQKdNz
Hope this helps.
Gee, what a concept, 62 pages late.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 12:06:10 PM
I need to give IL2 another serious try.
I bought all the modules on sale beginning of Covid. At the time, it just didn't click with me. I guess I am ambivalent on eastern front stuff.
Might at least try a campaign.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2024, 12:56:51 PM
When you can see the whites of their eyes, you're too close!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 01:03:35 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 07, 2024, 01:22:39 PM
I saw this mentioned as a good source of video tweaks. I saved to link to look at. Most of these settings might be too much for VR (prolly 2d optimal for making films) but it is a good discussion and gives you things to try:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 07, 2024, 01:34:39 PM
I bought all the modules on sale beginning of Covid. At the time, it just didn't click with me. I guess I am ambivalent on eastern front stuff.
Might at least try a campaign.
Very cool. One of the things that I think is cool that I did not see but might have missed in the film is when the tank crews bail out of the destroyed tanks.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 07, 2024, 01:36:56 PM
I bought all the modules on sale beginning of Covid. At the time, it just didn't click with me. I guess I am ambivalent on eastern front stuff.
Might at least try a campaign.
I've got loads of IL-2 vids and VODs on my channel, which may convince you to give it a fair shot.. If you can bear with my rather morbid sounding voice, you can hear there is still fun to be had in that game. :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 08, 2024, 12:48:36 PM
This your video Trips? ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 08, 2024, 01:04:45 PM
Makes me want to get the Little Bird free mod and find a great skin and make some Magnum P.I. missions for Marianas. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 08, 2024, 06:33:15 PM
I stole TCs bird and took it for a joyride. Very responsive. Maybe too responsive.
Been meaning to get a small touchscreen monitor and finally pulled the trigger. Took a bit of configuring and troubleshooting to get it working properly with DCS and Helios. Video tomorrow. Maybe.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 08, 2024, 07:51:19 PM
Eagler (or anyone else seeking info), you might want to check out Discord. This is one of the more current ways players communicate about games. Not only does Discord serve as a forum, but it also has chat, voice, and video sharing. Sad that there is no AH Discord. Forums are left over for us old dudes! Here is a link to VR Vive settings.
https://discord.gg/mrXQKdNz
Hope this helps.
Didn't even occur to me that AH still doesn't have a Discord :rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 08, 2024, 08:03:36 PM
Didn't even occur to me that AH still doesn't have a Discord :rofl
I didn't learn about Discord till I went to DCS. Pretty useful. Friend had me screen share and guided me step by step with some issues when I was starting out. I read posts from DCS and Pimax reps on a daily basis. A lot of tech problems I have run into were solved within minutes thanks to the chat feature. Last week my squad was practicing tactical formation turns (shackle, etc.) with our flight lead, who was a real life RAF Tornado pilot. After the flying session we went to our Discord channel and he replayed the "TacView" (another awesome program) going over it in a detailed debrief with Q&A on the spot.
Social media has become even more important as the flight sims get more advanced.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 09, 2024, 08:28:16 AM
Tacview works well but not always. In some of the PvP servers tacview jams up the game and allows stutters.
SPS Contention and ECW are a couple examples. The script they are running in some PvP missions does not jive well with tacview.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 09:10:13 AM
AH has this place which serves in lieu of Discord but Discord might draw more attention. For DCS squads, Discord is a great meeting place.
An aside, I started to delete my F-14 AB video because of my antics but it got a lot of views in 3 days, for me a lot anyhow. Wife said my antics are a plus. I'll shout out a plug for AH when I get famous. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 09:21:09 AM
I think the default DCS pixel density is .9. Before upgrading brother was using the default with his Reverb G2 and it worked fine. He had a Ryzen 7 3800X, RTX 3070, 32GB Ram. Try .7 on the pixel density.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 09:25:01 AM
BTW, we've been enjoying the Masters of the Air series but the CGI in the last episode just plain sucked, imo.
(Too lazy to switch threads)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 10:16:37 AM
Something that can affect any program running multi-threaded, CPU parking. Seems to affect Intel CPUs more than AMD but may apply to both.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 01:30:40 PM
Bought a little touch screen monitor. Works great with DCS and Helios. The cockpits on the touch screen are fixed and all the switches and displays work.
(https://ibb.co/fFFSfBg)
https://ibb.co/fFFSfBg
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on March 09, 2024, 01:41:12 PM
Didn't even occur to me that AH still doesn't have a Discord :rofl
I made one but never went forward with advertising it. I was not sure how moderation would go and assumed there would be some expected level of tech support/game help offered and not sure who from here that typically helps people out would be willing to migrate to a Discord and hang out. Same with reddit, to be honest.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on March 09, 2024, 02:15:34 PM
Bought a little touch screen monitor. Works great with DCS and Helios. The cockpits on the touch screen are fixed and all the switches and displays work.
(https://ibb.co/fFFSfBg)
https://ibb.co/fFFSfBg
Very cool. The whole rig is quite nice and the cabling had to be chore to get tidy but it is. Is that a lit coaster under the Topo Chico or a trick of the light?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 09, 2024, 03:09:44 PM
A coaster it is. :aok
Oh, not lit though. Hmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 09, 2024, 03:33:32 PM
I made one but never went forward with advertising it. I was not sure how moderation would go and assumed there would be some expected level of tech support/game help offered and not sure who from here that typically helps people out would be willing to migrate to a Discord and hang out. Same with reddit, to be honest.
I could see it maybe being worth the effort. Not at a replacement for this forum but an extension.
It might develop it's own flavor. The tech support section could maybe be a read only direction link to here and just tell them here is where you get support questions answered.
The real purpose of it is really extending your discoverability surface area. A lot of younger player probably mostly (only?) use reddit and discord for their MP interaction. Assuming there was an interest in trying to attract younger players. If it were just for the old folks here , I don't see much advantage. Probably a lot of animosity to the idea\platform. It would be for reaching out to new audiences.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on March 09, 2024, 04:06:57 PM
AH has this place which serves in lieu of Discord but Discord might draw more attention. For DCS squads, Discord is a great meeting place.
An aside, I started to delete my F-14 AB video because of my antics but it got a lot of views in 3 days, for me a lot anyhow. Wife said my antics are a plus. I'll shout out a plug for AH when I get famous. ;)
Ya, no joke. I would expect a dedicated AH Discord would in fact draw some folks to at least look at AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 09, 2024, 08:37:39 PM
I could see it maybe being worth the effort. Not at a replacement for this forum but an extension.
It might develop it's own flavor. The tech support section could maybe be a read only direction link to here and just tell them here is where you get support questions answered.
The real purpose of it is really extending your discoverability surface area. A lot of younger player probably mostly (only?) use reddit and discord for their MP interaction. Assuming there was an interest in trying to attract younger players. If it were just for the old folks here , I don't see much advantage. Probably a lot of animosity to the idea\platform. It would be for reaching out to new audiences.
Tell Animl to do it. Figure he'd be all over something like that.... after he gets over his Myocardial Infarction at a suggestion (or you) that isn't designed to sabotage AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on March 10, 2024, 05:20:00 AM
Tell Animl to do it. Figure he'd be all over something like that.... after he gets over his Myocardial Infarction at a suggestion (or you) that isn't designed to sabotage AH.
I wouldn't trust that guy to run a Lemonade stand.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 10, 2024, 07:37:05 AM
For an AH Discord to really take, I think it would need regular input from HiTech Creations. Not optimistic. :cry
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 10, 2024, 11:31:34 PM
For an AH Discord to really take, I think it would need regular input from HiTech Creations. Not optimistic. :cry
I agree. There is still life in Aces High and it may evolve or provide some enjoyment and sustenance as is for a while. Dale may or may not choose to push it forward. His choice of course.
Life can crush you in many ways. God is still always there.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 11, 2024, 09:22:21 AM
I wouldn't trust that guy to run a Lemonade stand.
I don’t care what you trust. Your flip flop personality is your own issue and anyone around you, not mine.
At least you know where I stand no matter what day it is. I don’t flop like a fish depending on the audience. I don’t have an ego that needs pampering. I wasn’t put on earth for your approval.
I’ve been called worse, by better.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 11, 2024, 08:18:09 PM
I bought the DCS P-47. I must be doing something wrong because it feels very underpowered.
Seemed that way to me at 28k but I haven't gone through the training. I suspect there was a supercharger or something that maybe I needed to switch on. The Jug is supposed to have the most complex engine management compared to the other current warbirds.
Have you done the training missions?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 12, 2024, 03:34:14 PM
I haven't done any training missions. Will have to check them out.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 12, 2024, 04:00:12 PM
I haven't done any training missions. Will have to check them out.
Me either. I'm working on the Spit now. Check Chuck's guide. There is a picture of a Boost supercharger control (Marked "B") I never touched. I think above 12k there is a lock you can flip that will synch it with changes in the throttle. I bet not working that up high is what was holding me back.
Seemed that way to me at 28k but I haven't gone through the training. I suspect there was a supercharger or something that maybe I needed to switch on. The Jug is supposed to have the most complex engine management compared to the other current warbirds.
Have you done the training missions?
According to the manual, the supercharger is used for take-off then not again until over 12,000 feet.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 12, 2024, 06:29:10 PM
According to the manual, the supercharger is used for take-off then not again until over 12,000 feet.
Makes sense.
I was at 28k and I don't think it was on at all or not all the way, so I think that's why I was bogging. I was like WTF? The jug should be a boss up here!
So that latch you'd want to disconnect after you drop below 12k.
Always something to learn. ;) Then I have to remember it. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 12, 2024, 06:47:23 PM
I know IL2 is not DCS but I know that it took me a bit to figure our all the stuff on it so I can imagine DCS would be even more tough.
In order of things that I figured out that was slowing me down: Cowl flaps (these things are like air brakes when you open them all the way) Supercharger settings (this one is kinda cool cause you can actually hear the supercharger spool up) Mixture (I didn't realize that you had to lean it as you got higher)
This is why I like flying the German planes. In my experience there's not a whole lot to do if you just watch your gauges and don't try to run the 109 wide open.
BTW looks like IL2 is having another sale if if anybody is looking to pick some IL2 stuff up.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: TryHard on March 12, 2024, 07:07:22 PM
Mixture (I didn't realize that you had to lean it as you got higher)
Most allied planes after 1941 had throttle body fuel injection so the auto lean was for cruise regardless of altitude and auto rich for combat/take off power again at any altitude. Full rich was for WEP on some aircraft and also as a fail safe on others incase the automatic altitude mixture control system failed.
EDIT: In other words if you're running auto lean at full military power at say 25k you are turning your engine into a blowtorch that melts pistons :salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 12, 2024, 07:08:09 PM
I know IL2 is not DCS but I know that it took me a bit to figure our all the stuff on it so I can imagine DCS would be even more tough.
In order of things that I figured out that was slowing me down: Cowl flaps (these things are like air brakes when you open them all the way) Supercharger settings (this one is kinda cool cause you can actually hear the supercharger spool up) Mixture (I didn't realize that you had to lean it as you got higher)
This is why I like flying the German planes. In my experience there's not a whole lot to do if you just watch your gauges and don't try to run the 109 wide open.
BTW looks like IL2 is having another sale if if anybody is looking to pick some IL2 stuff up.
Yeah, I wasn't worried considering I hadn't done any training on it yet. ;)
The Dora and Pony are nice as they handle a lot of that for you if the Jug is a little too much pilot load for ya.
Not cheating, that is how they were designed. Those are still my favorite above 10k. Spit IX if I am going to be staying below 10k.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 12, 2024, 07:09:40 PM
Most allied planes after 1941 had throttle body fuel injection so the auto lean was for cruise regardless of altitude and auto rich for combat/take off power again at any altitude. Full rich was for WEP on some aircraft and also as a fail safe on others incase the automatic altitude mixture control system failed.
:aok
I get to all that as soon as I can land my spit without dragging a wingtip. ;)
Those will buff out though. No pieces came off. I'll jsut use grass fields for a while. :rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 12, 2024, 07:10:36 PM
Most allied planes after 1941 had throttle body fuel injection so the auto lean was for cruise regardless of altitude and auto rich for combat/take off power again at any altitude. Full rich was for WEP on some aircraft and also as a fail safe on others incase the automatic altitude mixture control system failed.
EDIT: In other words if you're running auto lean at full military power at say 25k you are turning your engine into a blowtorch that melts pistons :salute
Good to know. I'm still learning. I am good at destroying engines if that counts for anything :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 12, 2024, 08:06:49 PM
Sounds about as exciting as MSFS 98 , or reading Reader’s Digest.
No winder none you ever talk about being in a actual fight.
True snore material ya got goin here.
Don’t forget to hit the report button.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 12, 2024, 08:25:16 PM
Most allied planes after 1941 had throttle body fuel injection so the auto lean was for cruise regardless of altitude and auto rich for combat/take off power again at any altitude. Full rich was for WEP on some aircraft and also as a fail safe on others incase the automatic altitude mixture control system failed.
EDIT: In other words if you're running auto lean at full military power at say 25k you are turning your engine into a blowtorch that melts pistons :salute
Same applies for flaps on the P-47, cowl flaps cannot be open in a dive or you will melt the pistons.
And for those that want PvP action, try the Wolfpack PvP server.
https://youtu.be/lcMWqW9p3Kg?si=pbNj1Z5j24xyeExX
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on March 12, 2024, 08:29:56 PM
Same applies for flaps on the P-47, cowl flaps cannot be open in a dive or you will melt the pistons.
And for those that want PvP action, try the Wolfpack PvP server.
https://youtu.be/lcMWqW9p3Kg?si=pbNj1Z5j24xyeExX
Did that Bruh just shoot down a friendly? :rofl The other half the time I think they were chasing each other. I was like...dude that sure looks like a spit to me. Am I not seeing that right? lol Classic. "I sure wish I could tell who's who up here!" Commences to spray at what ever that shape is out in front of him. The other prolly wasn't trying to attack him just get on his six as the only safe place until the noob figured out who is who. Lucky is was mg fire. If that had been a sidewinder... :rofl
Yeah. That would be me. :D We need some innovation on labels to find a compromise.I guess that would be just dot labels which a pretty subtle but would have prolly avoided this easier.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on March 12, 2024, 09:33:18 PM
Melt the pistons, with the cowl flaps open? How does that happen? Shock cooling I can understand, but overheating...?
- Perplexed Oldman
I'm thinking the cylinders cool and contract at a faster rate than the pistons with the cowls open in a high alt dive and thus overheat with the now added friction and loss of oil viscosity?
Either that or the thingies get all bamboozled and begin shredding under the bodacious pressure and bummage brought on by righteous altitude subtraction.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 13, 2024, 04:22:34 AM
I'm thinking the cylinders cool and contract at a faster rate than the pistons with the cowls open in a high alt dive and thus overheat with the now added friction and loss of oil viscosity?
Either that or the thingies get all bamboozled and begin shredding under the bodacious pressure and bummage brought on by righteous altitude subtraction.
With air cooled radial, cylinders cools faster than pistons, they shrink while pistons don't, clearance disappears and engine seizes, I presume.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 10:00:10 AM
And for those that want PvP action, try the Wolfpack PvP server.
I'm working my way up to trying the Wolfpack.
I want to try ECW too.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 13, 2024, 10:06:23 AM
Nice quick review on the Pimax Crystal from a real life Apache pilot. I have had mine for over 8 months and it truly is the next step in "state of the art".
Another benefit of the modern flight sims is that there are real life fighter pilots flying the sim. AH used to have that, but sadly time has caught up with most WWII veterans.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2024, 10:17:15 AM
Brother loves his Pimax Crystal. You need a powerful GPU to get a smooth experience from it though.
He recently brought me his old Reverb G2 and Point Ctrl to troubleshoot because he couldn't get the Point Ctrl working right. Moves very erratically. I decided to check the camera lens to see if it was clean. Wait, is that a tiny piece of protective cellophane stuck on the lens? Yes, yes it was. Going back to him today. :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 10:28:50 AM
Brother loves his Pimax Crystal. You need a powerful GPU to get a smooth experience from it though.
He recently brought me his old Reverb G2 and Point Ctrl to troubleshoot because he couldn't get the Point Ctrl working right. Moves very erratically. I decided to check the camera lens to see if it was clean. Wait, is that a tiny piece of protective cellophane stuck on the lens? Yes, yes it was. Going back to him today. :)
You da man. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2024, 10:43:47 AM
:rofl
Point Ctrl looks like it will work well in DCS. Anyone tried Leap Motion?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on March 13, 2024, 11:26:59 AM
Seems like this thread has run its course.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 11:39:38 AM
Tell Animl to do it. Figure he'd be all over something like that.... after he gets over his Myocardial Infarction at a suggestion (or you) that isn't designed to sabotage AH.
Why would I run something you yourselves won’t hold these dcs convos on dcs forums or discord pages? Oxymoron.
Both the game and discord must suck, you’re here, not there.
I don’t want anything to do with freaks, in either place. Because if this is whats there, no chance on either.
You’re certainly not here because you have friends here.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2024, 11:48:04 AM
I think this thread has some life left in it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 13, 2024, 12:02:54 PM
If you guys that are supporting other flight sims here still subscribe to AH I can see a thread like this but if you don't it doesn't belong here imo...I don't think most of you do
Us old dogs of this game get your point, if we aren't interested in engine management, talk about melting engines is overkill lol
We know how to sub if/when we are interested...
Again if you're still paying for AH, carry on advertising it's competition in your superior slant..otherwise it has run its course imo also
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 12:06:38 PM
If you guys that are supporting other flight sims here still subscribe to AH I can see a thread like this but if you don't it doesn't belong here imo...I don't think most of you do
Us old dogs of this game get your point, if we aren't interested in engine management, talk about melting engines is overkill lol
We know how to sub if/when we are interested...
Again if you're still paying for AH, carry on advertising it's competition in your superior slant..otherwise it has run its course imo also
Eagler
I'm sure WT pilots say the same thing about the hassle of having to coordinate rudders with ailerons. They are just different points on the simulation spectrum.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on March 13, 2024, 12:09:04 PM
I said this ten pages ago. It’s no longer a discussion of sims and mostly become a few people talking about DCS. If you want to talk about it so bad then make a DCS thread and have at it. That way people won’t need to check out new posts hoping to join a meaningful discussion.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 12:12:15 PM
It will be interesting to see how this compares to the DCS version if we ever see it.
I was watching some RL Chinook vids. It's amazing how nimble a big bird can be.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 12:18:52 PM
I said this ten pages ago. It’s no longer a discussion of sims and mostly become a few people talking about DCS. If you want to talk about it so bad then make a DCS thread and have at it. That way people won’t need to check out new posts hoping to join a meaningful discussion.
Is there anything against that in the forum rules? I looked and didn't see anything.
One could simply chose not to read if the content doesn't interest them.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 13, 2024, 01:16:32 PM
Is there anything against that in the forum rules? I looked and didn't see anything.
I would argue off topic, at this point. The original goal of the thread was discussion about AH versus the other sims, but there has seldom been mention of AH in the last 20-30 pages.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 01:19:33 PM
I would argue off topic, at this point. The original goal of the thread was discussion about AH versus the other sims, but there has seldom been mention of AH in the last 20-30 pages.
Would the topic author agree?
Edge, are we hijacking your thread? If so, I apologize. Conversations evolve.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 13, 2024, 01:22:33 PM
I hold Spikes, Eagler, and Dadtallica in high regard and respect their opinions. I think they make a valid point.
Discussing features of different sims for comparison, with AH as a common point of reference, was the main point of this thread. Also as a safe place for "AH only" players to ask about other sims out there.
I have learned quite a bit about IL-2, WarThunder, Combat Pilot, and the current state of AH from this thread. I appreciate that HiTech allows the discussion of other sims on this forum and think other sims should follow suit. Our hobby is too much of a niche to be phobic about discussing all the options available to us.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 13, 2024, 01:24:43 PM
I hold Spikes, Eagler, and Dadtallica in high regard and respect their opinions. I think they make a valid point.
Discussing features of different sims for comparison, with AH as a common point of reference, was the main point of this thread. Also as a safe place for "AH only" players to ask about other sims out there.
I have learned quite a bit about IL-2, WarThunder, Combat Pilot, and the current state of AH from this thread. I appreciate that HiTech allows the discussion of other sims on this forum and think other sims should follow suit. Our hobby is too much of a niche to be phobic about discussing all the options available to us.
I've been discussing AH over in Enigma's IL2 discord too. No one has wet themselves and we've had some great discussions. Pros and cons and compare contrast IL 1946\GB v DCS v CP v AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 01:53:41 PM
I have been guilty of this as well. Easy to get off track with our passions. :lol
Ok. So I had tried at the beginning and all I got were personal anecdotal testimonies on why this person or that person prefers AH to everything else and AH is simply the best in all categories. I had been trying to talk about the next higher view of where AH fits in with the overall sim market regardless of the selection bias of decades long AH customers preferring it. I have no doubt about that.
So let's get back on topic.
Simple question I never get a straight answer on. For those that say AH is best and needs no improvement, where are the players at?
Why did the 600 a night players leave, and why have they never been able to be replaced?
Why does IL2 GB find customers, WT, DCS (all across the sim spectrum) get the customers AH can't attract?
Is it simply HT needs to run some ads?
If HT ran $mil ad buy tomorrow, would that put 600 players back in the area (durably)? If not, what is holding it back?
-----------
I actually think AH has more potential customers at it's point on the sim curve than DCS has at it's chosen point. DCS is fringe. But it captures near 100% of it potential base. That is why it is making money. Smaller potential but captures most of it's potential.
IMHO, AH has a larger population of potential customers with it's middle of the road fidelity design, but it captures almost 0% of the potential.
WT on the other the hand has the most potential customers and captures a very high percentage of them. That is why they are printing money hand over fist.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 02:11:02 PM
I've been discussing AH over in Enigma's IL2 discord too. No one has wet themselves and we've had some great discussions. Pros and cons and compare contrast IL 1946\GB v DCS v CP v AH.
Play on words, dbl talk. They have it segregated away from other forums. Grow up. You’re not fooling one single person. You’re a scammer and skimmer. Nothing more, nothing less. Snf you think its just me because I’m the loudest. You have no paying customer friends here. You sank yourself with this con job and constant spam.
Maybe the paying customers need more attention than firmer player spammers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 02:11:56 PM
I hold Spikes, Eagler, and Dadtallica in high regard and respect their opinions. I think they make a valid point.
Discussing features of different sims for comparison, with AH as a common point of reference, was the main point of this thread. Also as a safe place for "AH only" players to ask about other sims out there.
I have learned quite a bit about IL-2, WarThunder, Combat Pilot, and the current state of AH from this thread. I appreciate that HiTech allows the discussion of other sims on this forum and think other sims should follow suit. Our hobby is too much of a niche to be phobic about discussing all the options available to us.
Oh please.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 02:15:52 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 02:24:59 PM
Sig there, biggest drama queen AH ever had here. Now play poor victim and hit the report button in s paying player again.
No one wants you here.
I can buy a happy meal instead.
Sorry to say, Animl, but it is you who is playing the role of martyr here, like someone was forcing you to read this topic. If edge12674 as an author accepts the development of discussion and HT allows it to continue, what is your problem?
And let's now make a comparison of forums, AH vs IL-2. The latter has its own subforum (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/139-other-sims-and-games/), dedicated for discussions of other sims. There are several non-IL2 flying persons participating and nobody flying there behaves like having fire ants in their pants because of them.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2024, 04:16:11 PM
I've played many WWI "sims" over the decades. Rise of Flight was pretty good. Would buy IL-2 Flying Circus but it's 80 bucks. Will watch for a sale.
<edit> Just saw it at the IL-2 site for much less, non-steam. Gonna hafta buy it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: nopoop on March 13, 2024, 04:55:21 PM
Tbe only one anoying here is YOU Animl.
Do all of us a favor and shut it...
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on March 13, 2024, 06:18:32 PM
How the turns have tabled :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 07:41:12 PM
I've played many WWI "sims" over the decades. Rise of Flight was pretty good. Would buy IL-2 Flying Circus but it's 80 bucks. Will watch for a sale.
<edit> Just saw it at the IL-2 site for much less, non-steam. Gonna hafta buy it.
Not entirely sure here but I think I thought I might have heard Flying Circus is pretty much a re-tooling of Rise of Flight. I always had RoF, just never really did much with it. Not so much so with Flying Circus... it just feels better.
Regardless, Flying Circus is a hoot to doddle around in. There's a couple of MP servers, no idea if they're ever populated. Regardless, I really get a lot of enjoyment from it in SP.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 07:50:55 PM
Awesome the non paying firmer play with 12 yr old tactics. As juvenile as i pointed out. Former non paying customers win. Wipe my account. Get a job loser.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 13, 2024, 09:32:38 PM
Again?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 09:34:40 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 09:36:57 PM
You dream about me don’t you?
You’re not welcome here. And if you are HT can wipe my account right now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 13, 2024, 09:43:08 PM
When former non paying people supersede paying cudtomets, time to saddle up down the road. You don’t need my money.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 13, 2024, 10:01:15 PM
Are you threatening Hitech that if he doesn't run us off you'll stop paying? Cause that's what it sounds like. I think you are overestimating the importance of your 15 bucks. I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself. Neither should you.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 13, 2024, 10:09:25 PM
He got hired over to IL2. (Soon?) After IL2 bought Rise of Flight and made Williams producer of the GB series. Something like that. I bet that was part of his deal for them to buy RoF as his exit strategy to get him to come over to IL2. It was worth the investment just to get him I guess because he gave them the whole GB series which saved their finances. IL2 was rebuilding RoF into their Flying Circus. Not sure how much of the original is transferring.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 14, 2024, 03:41:44 AM
Except for the "What is.." querying which is cool. In VA you'd have to create a pre-canned phrase. It would be cool if in the explanation it could highlight the cockpit control involved like a training mission does and maybe search you bindings and remind you what you currently have that function mapped to.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 14, 2024, 10:38:34 AM
I had to give up on VA. I never figured out why, but it was a constant shatshow for me.
I did the voice training twice and it made a big difference.
I also found that it recognizes some words better than other. You can just watch the VA screen to see how well it recognizes particular words. I gave up on F1-F12 and used function one - function twelve. Works much better for me.
Also "back slash" is iffy. I just say "comms menu". I should make a video. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 14, 2024, 11:00:55 AM
I did the voice training twice and it made a big difference.
I also found that it recognizes some words better than other. You can just watch the VA screen to see how well it recognizes particular words. I gave up on F1-F12 and used function one - function twelve. Works much better for me.
Also "back slash" is iffy. I just say "comms menu".
Yeah, I've had to pick alternate phrases sometimes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 11:16:58 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 14, 2024, 11:17:56 AM
I did the voice training twice and it made a big difference.
I also found that it recognizes some words better than other. You can just watch the VA screen to see how well it recognizes particular words. I gave up on F1-F12 and used function one - function twelve. Works much better for me.
Also "back slash" is iffy. I just say "comms menu". I should make a video. ;)
Voicing was never an issue, not at all. It worked great in that regard. VA was always causing some conflict or another... it's been so long I can't really remember exactly what it was. One day though, I just said F'it and deleted it. Figured eventually someone would come up with a more seamless product. Looks like they have.
Could be I'm just getting old and don't have the inclination to mess with stuff to get it working. Same story with me & VR. I have a G2 that spent maybe a month not sitting on it's wall mount... there's a nice coat of dust on it now. It was just one thing after another. I should've waited ~another~ 10yrs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Spikes on March 14, 2024, 11:19:38 AM
VA has been a godsend in IL2 with all the random key binds and stuff. I use it mainly for the mundane stuff, also have a few macros for jet startups and whatnot, where there's keybinds on top of keybinds to hold.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 11:23:10 AM
Voicing was never an issue, not at all. It worked great in that regard. VA was always causing some conflict or another... it's been so long I can't really remember exactly what it was. One day though, I just said F'it and deleted it. Figured eventually someone would come up with a more seamless product. Looks like they have.
Could be I'm just getting old and don't have the inclination to mess with stuff to get it working. Same story with me & VR. I have a G2 that spent maybe a month not sitting on it's wall mount... there's a nice coat of dust on it now. It was just one thing after another. I should've waited ~another~ 10yrs.
Were you using VIACOM or some other addon that integrates with VA? I had a lot of trouble with those and got rid of them.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 11:24:18 AM
VA has been a godsend in IL2 with all the random key binds and stuff. I use it mainly for the mundane stuff, also have a few macros for jet startups and whatnot, where there's keybinds on top of keybinds to hold.
I do the same. Non time sensitive critical stuff in case it doesn't work. Frees up buttons on the HOTAS.
I played around with adding audio feedback on commands so I'd know if they worked without looking. Worked well enough.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 14, 2024, 11:28:28 AM
This thread was started and run by non-paying former players who have no intention of returning, but have huge intentions of promoting another specific game.
4- Flame baiting, flaming, being abusive, being disrespectful, trolling, ** spamming ** or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
This entire thread is SPAM, it's disguised as a conversation of all sims, when its much more a vehicle to spam and skim players for DCS benefit.
10- Do not punt topics. Punting would be making a non-substantive post for the express purpose of bring the thread to the top of the thread list.
Again, more than obvious, using play on words to skirt around the rules, they make repeat comments and post minimal content on a consistently timed basis for the soul purpose of keeping a DCS SPAM thread on top view. Any rebuttals to their comments are scrolled away with more meaningless and repeat comment posts so that their spam message stays on top.
"You can't stop me" speaks for itself on intentions.
Allowing this form of spam works against the paying players who are desperately devoting their own free time to help raise the sub numbers to their own benefit and HTC as well, while they attempt to spam them out the backdoor.
Their success makes efforts of paying customers devoting their own free time pointless.
This post will also be scrolled away in punting half-baked comments and play on words to excuse it away.
Take note: this works in their favor to high degree since DCS will not allow such conversations on their forums. So it's not we are interchanging players back and forth on a fair basis, it's a one track train for their benefit only.
This thread is systematic spamming and punting and works against paying customer's enjoyment.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 14, 2024, 11:32:52 AM
This thread was started and run by non-paying former players who have no intention of returning, but have huge intentions of promoting another specific game.
4- Flame baiting, flaming, being abusive, being disrespectful, trolling, ** spamming ** or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
This entire thread is SPAM, it's disguised as a conversation of all sims, when its much more a vehicle to spam and skim players for DCS benefit.
10- Do not punt topics. Punting would be making a non-substantive post for the express purpose of bring the thread to the top of the thread list.
Again, more than obvious, using play on words to skirt around the rules, they make repeat comments and post minimal content on a consistently timed basis for the soul purpose of keeping a DCS SPAM thread on top view. Any rebuttals to their comments are scrolled away with more meaningless and repeat comment posts so that their spam message stays on top.
"You can't stop me" speaks for itself on intentions.
Allowing this form of spam works against the paying players who are desperately devoting their own free time to help raise the sub numbers to their own benefit and HTC as well, while they attempt to spam them out the backdoor.
Their success makes efforts of paying customers devoting their own free time pointless.
This post will also be scrolled away in punting half-baked comments and play on words to excuse it away.
Take note: this works in their favor to high degree since DCS will not allow such conversations on their forums. So it's not we are interchanging players back and forth on a fair basis, it's a one track train for their benefit only.
This thread is systematic spamming and punting and works against paying customer's enjoyment.
So we now know, very clearly, you have read the forum rules. Therefore you can stop posting your nonsense in this thread because of Rule#5;
5- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If you feel a post violates the forum rules, the use the "Report to Moderator" link in the post to report it.
Many Thanks
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: nopoop on March 14, 2024, 01:22:24 PM
Punt !!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 14, 2024, 01:26:04 PM
I use Vaicom and Voice Attack for DCS pretty much every time. I found Voice Attack very useful in AH with VR, using it primarily to jump to different gunner positions in bombers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on March 14, 2024, 01:51:39 PM
Ah yes, I now remember seeing that in some youtube video before. But so far I didn't feel like going through these motions, especially as I’m somewhat less flying and more driving these days. (well, actually my most played game in the past 365 days is Minecraft, thanks to my son :D)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 02:46:15 PM
Never played Minecraft but I did play Valheim more than a little.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 14, 2024, 03:43:58 PM
I use Vaicom and Voice Attack for DCS pretty much every time. I found Voice Attack very useful in AH with VR, using it primarily to jump to different gunner positions in bombers.
my squad lead is from northern Minnesota and has an accent to prove it. He was having a hard time getting voice attack to recognize his commands. After telling VA six times to load the crate, I said maybe you should say it with a Indian accent and sure enough it worked.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 14, 2024, 04:49:31 PM
Never played Minecraft but I did play Valheim more than a little.
You can count my time on Minecraft in hours, both hands even. Valheim was all kinds of fun. Was in there with another "former" AH'r for awhile... until we/he discovered the built in "God Mode" or whatever you call it. The dude has an uncanny need to dumb down a game, remove any and every semblance of "challenge", and ultimately make it as boring as humanly possible. I quit.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 06:02:14 PM
My grandson and I worked together to beat Yagluth. No cheating before that. After that I used the dev commands to build. Had already gotten what I wanted from the game before that. Building enormous structures without garnering resources was fun for while and extended value for me. It's a great fun game.
To be clear, a grandson. I have 10.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 14, 2024, 06:27:10 PM
Open the bomb bay doors Hal.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 14, 2024, 10:08:06 PM
This was a 2016 interview with Jason Williams. Former CEO Rise of Flight. Hired to produce the IL2 Great Battles series. Now off working on Combat Pilot.
I thought there were some interesting tid-bits to this conversation. It was from back in 2016, so there is a lot of IL2 detail stuff that might not even be relevant now, but what I found interesting was the other discussions of what he had hoped to do with PTO in IL2 as well as other industry insights from a producer in the trenches. I found his thoughts on PTO interesting as it may hint at his goals and dreams that might carry over to Combat Pilot.
It’s long. Some points of interest:
@ 4:40-10:40 Talking about his plans to get to PTO after Kuban. Lol. That didn’t age well. Was originally planning battle of Midway and then Battle of Okinawa. Carrier heavy focus. I can see how things must have went if his bosses changed their mind later. His whole vibe felts like, “I got to get this last Russian theater(Kuban) done so I can go do the cool stuff (PTO). LoL. I get it. I could never get into eastern front. (There is a bunch of Teamspeak notification crap at first but it dies down.)
@01:23:28 Thoughts on marketing exposure, ad buys.
@01:51:30 Thoughts on WWIIOnline style game
@02:05:17 Brief mention that at ROF they had surprisingly found some F2P to be beneficial.
@2:04:52 Battle of France
@2:08:52 Carriers
@2:14:39 Brief PTO planning thoughts
@2:15:28 Tanks
Over all, I thought he came off as assertive but honest and frank. I’d prefer honest directness over a bunch of insincere, banal, corporate-speak.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on March 15, 2024, 12:43:12 PM
Rise of flight seems to have taken a dive into obscurity, it really isn't brought up in flight sim conversation and discussed as often as it really should. :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 15, 2024, 01:24:05 PM
Rise of flight seems to have taken a dive into obscurity, it really isn't brought up in flight sim conversation and discussed as often as it really should. :old:
Yeah. WWI is just the fringe of the fringe of the fringe.
It's hard to get people interested in WWII Early War planes much less WWI.
Too bad. Beautiful planes and knife fights in a phone booth up close action.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 15, 2024, 01:27:28 PM
My grandson and I worked together to beat Yagluth. No cheating before that. After that I used the dev commands to build. Had already gotten what I wanted from the game before that. Building enormous structures without garnering resources was fun for while and extended value for me. It's a great fun game.
To be clear, a grandson. I have 10.
4. Bound to be more.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 15, 2024, 01:34:09 PM
Yeah. WWI is just the fringe of the fringe of the fringe.
It's hard to get people interested in WWII Early War planes much less WWI.
Too bad. Beautiful planes and knife fights in a phone booth up close action.
I find WWI combat-sim flying rather chaotic for my slow moving brain. It's fun and all but sheesh... throwing peas at the bad guys, wings all blocking your vision, wings tearing off when if you fly as hard as you want to.
That said, those guys back then set the bar in the Biggest Balls category and it's still way up there. Early 8th AF bomber crews come close.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 15, 2024, 03:03:04 PM
That said, those guys back then set the bar in the Biggest Balls category and it's still way up there.
For sure.
I was watching a BBS series (something like Piece of Cake but WWI), in the early days they didn't understand spins or how to get out of them. It was a mysterious phenomena that sometimes just plucked a plane out of the sky and crashed it. Like the sound barrier, it was a gremlin.
Some got out by accident. Most died. They didn't know exactly how to avoid it or escape.
Jeez. Imagine having to go into combat like that. As if people shooting at you wasn't enough. All they had were guesses, superstition and rumors. "That one weird trick..." But it wasn't something you wanted to try by choice. Testing a theory had a good chance at ending up in a twisted ball on the ground if you were wrong.
It was a big deal when someone actually by accident got out of one and figured out a technique to do so.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 15, 2024, 03:57:35 PM
And parachute, what's that?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 15, 2024, 04:18:55 PM
Worse. They knew about parachutes. Balloonists had used them since the mid-1800's.
High command forbid aviators from carrying them for half the war afraid it would encourage pilots to bail rather than fight when odds got tough.
Pilots who's planes caught fire from the slightest hit in the engine often chose to jump without them, or end it with their pistol rather than burn to death.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 15, 2024, 04:55:06 PM
IL2 and steam are both currently having a sale! IL2 1945 is $2.49 and Cliffs of Dover is $4.99 (what if I understand right they are working on VR support for)
I picked up the last of the GB series I was missing and now have them all.
I must say I'm really liking the G6(late) version. You can add the 30mm to it and I've found that if I trim it right I can hang with the spits and easily out turn the LAs. I did also find that the spin recover isn't so good when trimmed to turn with the spits and you almost have to take the trim off to recover. I learned this after leaving a couple smoking holes in the ground. Funny how the smoking hole stays around for a bit to remind you when you fly back into the area!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 15, 2024, 07:46:43 PM
Pilots who's planes caught fire from the slightest hit in the engine often chose to jump without them, or end it with their pistol rather than burn to death.
Sheesh... pretty sure I'd opt for a chance with a healthy bounce or some nice thick mud.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 15, 2024, 09:12:10 PM
This vid right here (IMO) is crafty marketing hiding behind a curtain of BS. Way to similar to their F-14 antics a number of years ago (Heatblur & Magnitude used to be Leatherneck). I figure pre-order sales are remaining constant, and they know there'll be a slow-up once the release (higher price) hits. I'd bet my last dime on it.
Still gonna be awesome, but BS target release dates are about the only thing DCS does that's equally consistent and infuriating. COVID? Come on Man. They'll probably hit the May date... but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 19, 2024, 11:31:21 AM
I recently bought two more DCS warbirds, which completes the DCS WWII collection except for the 190D.
I would like to talk about comparing AH and DCS warbird flight model impressions.
Taxi, takeoff, and landing: DCS warbirds are harder and more in line with real world accounts.
Ballistics: The cannon rounds seem to drop more in DCS. I found it surprising that DCS does not allow you to set convergence. I had custom convergences for every warbird in AH. I think AH is still ahead of the current state of combat flight sims with its inclusion. DCS guns don't do as much damage as in AH. I think this is due to the more complex damage models in DCS, making it more important to aim at specific parts of the aircraft.
Spit9: Behaves pretty close to AH modeling. Roll rate is a little slower in DCS. The DCS model seems to hold its energy a little better.
Mossie: Behaves pretty close to AH modeling. It seems to turnfight and handle slow flight a little better in DCS. Acceleration is a little slower in DCS than AH. The delay in cannon firing in DCS, while accurate, requires better timing on your shots.
I-16: Again pretty close to AH. Seems to hang on the prop a little better in DCS, making climbing turns a more viable tactic.
P-51D:Requires a lighter touch in DCS, when turning, compared to AH. The wing drop when turning is surprising and has cost me the saddle several times. Like the Mossie, the top speed is there, but the acceleration is slower.
P-47D: It seems to turn a little better in DCS when clean, but the AH model turns better with some flaps deployed. It does not pick up the speed in a dive the way the AH jug does. At high altitude the DCS jug seems to hold its own better than in AH. The zoom after a dive is not as great in DCS.
109K:Similar to AH, but does not climb as well. In AH a climbing spiral works well, but in DCS a Spit will hand you your lunch if you try it. The DCS 109K requires a shallower straight climb to accelerate away. In DCS it also does not want to slow down as much as in AH.
190a8: Like the P-51, it requires a finer touch in DCS compared to AH. The wing will drop out from underneath you with little warning. It picks up speed in a dive faster in DCS. The guns shred bombers better in DCS, with the bomber ammo mix.
How does the IL-2 flight model compare to AH and DCS?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 19, 2024, 04:53:55 PM
I recently bought two more DCS warbirds, which completes the DCS WWII collection except for the 190D.
I would like to talk about comparing AH and DCS warbird flight model impressions.
Taxi, takeoff, and landing: DCS warbirds are harder and more in line with real world accounts.
Ballistics: The cannon rounds seem to drop more in DCS. I found it surprising that DCS does not allow you to set convergence. I had custom convergences for every warbird in AH. I think AH is still ahead of the current state of combat flight sims with its inclusion. DCS guns don't do as much damage as in AH. I think this is due to the more complex damage models in DCS, making it more important to aim at specific parts of the aircraft. This is based on my limited experience in IL2 so others may be able to provide more/better info. Spit9: Behaves pretty close to AH modeling. Roll rate is a little slower in DCS. The DCS model seems to hold its energy a little better. Spits in general seem to be much faster and climb better in IL2. Mossie: Behaves pretty close to AH modeling. It seems to turnfight and handle slow flight a little better in DCS. Acceleration is a little slower in DCS than AH. The delay in cannon firing in DCS, while accurate, requires better timing on your shots. I can't turn the mossie as well slow as I can in AH3 even with the flaps and the ammo seems to go much faster I-16: Again pretty close to AH. Seems to hang on the prop a little better in DCS, making climbing turns a more viable tactic. The low speed handling seems to be better in IL2 P-51D:Requires a lighter touch in DCS, when turning, compared to AH. The wing drop when turning is surprising and has cost me the saddle several times. Like the Mossie, the top speed is there, but the acceleration is slower. Like the spit in IL2 the Pony seems faster and to climb and turn better in IL2. It definitely is harder to slow down on landing and such. P-47D: It seems to turn a little better in DCS when clean, but the AH model turns better with some flaps deployed. It does not pick up the speed in a dive the way the AH jug does. At high altitude the DCS jug seems to hold its own better than in AH. The zoom after a dive is not as great in DCS. I haven't flown this one much but they recently did some tweaks to the flight model. 109K:Similar to AH, but does not climb as well. In AH a climbing spiral works well, but in DCS a Spit will hand you your lunch if you try it. The DCS 109K requires a shallower straight climb to accelerate away. In DCS it also does not want to slow down as much as in AH. It seems to be comparable to AH3 at wep but over a min at wep and you can burn up the engine. 190a8: Like the P-51, it requires a finer touch in DCS compared to AH. The wing will drop out from underneath you with little warning. It picks up speed in a dive faster in DCS. The guns shred bombers better in DCS, with the bomber ammo mix. Don't know this one, haven't flown it much How does the IL-2 flight model compare to AH and DCS?
Overall I've noticed that the planes don't seem to have as much rudder authority as in AH3. That might be speed related and me still being a noob too. Another point is the same as DCS. The weapon damage does not seem ad great here and where you hit is very important. I've seen fighters take more then one hit from 30mm. That said the plane "feels" much more responsive. I've also noticed that when you're shooting it looks more like the videos I've seen of ww2 planes in the way that the plane moves.
Before anybody gets all jammed up. I'm just saying it's "different" not "better"
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 20, 2024, 12:13:04 AM
.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 20, 2024, 12:23:01 AM
Taxi/Takeoff/Landing: Once you get used to that weird brake system in the Brit stuff, it's harder than AH, but not hard to Taxi. Taking off in DCS is really only worth a mention regarding Warbirds. All the Jets are a snap. But, the Spit & Mossie feel like you're on an ice covered glass runway. The other Warbirds aren't so bad... it's still there, and will mess with you for a bit, but it's not hard to overcome. Early on, the Spit and K4 gave me fits trying to get off the ground. It's not so bad now. In the K4, you used to HAVE to counter torque by laying the stick all-the-way to the left and back a smudge... and it still went haywire once airborne. Landing for me is still usually a controlled crash in DCS... ya gotta be plenty dainty when touching down. I never found AH to be remotely difficult in any of the above. Honorable Mention goes to IL-2... enjoy your early morning Ground Loops.
Ballistics: Ya, not as much damage in DCS. Watching old (real) Guncams, I think it's fair to say AH & DCS each have their pros & cons, and these really don't make a difference.
Spit: Definitely harder to get run down by a Spit in DCS, for sure. But hey, HiTech's a Spitdweeb, who knew?
Mossie: Maybe my favorite Warbird (in DCS). It's just fun. This one comes down the the general "overall" difference in handling between DCS & AH, which to me can be measured in Light Years.
I-16: I agree with your assessment, with one exception. It's wise to have the Gear raise/lower sequence ready on your kneeboard. Friggin Russkies
P-47: Overall performance in AH is much higher IMO. Engine management makes it a dream... but that's just my thing. I like to move mud, and as with most everything comparing the two, it's way, way harder in DCS. Not once did I ever look at a slip indicator in AH, and I was pretty accurate.
K4: Pure fun. Watch for "No MW" in some of the DCS MP Servers. That had me infuriated for about a week as I had no idea that little switch on the left existed (I don't think Chuck had it in the guide then either). I don't remember a lot about flying the K4 in AH, but I certainly noticed the torque in DCS. It's like 2 entirely different planes IMO.
A8: Standard flight model differences aside, it's the sam Pig in both games. It does seem to stall way easier in DCS.
D9: I was flying the D9 on the Wolfpack server just last Friday (I think). Coincidentally, I was thinking about how much it felt like AH. While it stalls easier in DCS, it generally rides on the same rails that all the AH planes do. Which IMO is just a sign of how things work as time goes on. The flight model in Air Warrior was GLUED to rails compared to AH.
Rudder in DCS feels to me completely different than in AH... like a whole different way of thinking about rudder. I'm exactly the opposite of hazmatt on this. DCS not only feels like what I would think a rudder should, it's far more sensitive in DCS. I mean, I get tensed up trying not to throw in too much rudder... and I NEED to use rudder in DCS. Not so much with AH (ahhh... I don't use rudder-assist)
Overall, my impression regarding the differences regarding flight models is as follows. I may not live long enough to have the same number of hours in DCS as I do AH, but I thoroughly enjoy DCS "more now" from a pure flight perspective. The adrenalin pumping fighting fun is not there in DCS, but I'm not looking for it. I totally enjoyed AH "more then", from a pure fighting perspective. I owned LockOn the day it released... but barely noticed it for over a decade. I think that says something. But hey, I'm getting older. I don't need or care to prove anything to anyone. I could easily go another 20yrs in DCS, never fire a shot, and do only SP free-flight and be perfectly happy with it. No so with AH... DCS is simply, more aesthetic. If I was still looking for competition.. I'd muck around in DCS during the day, and fly AH during peak hours. DCS is harder and more realistic regarding Flight Models, but AH employs it's flight model perfectly for what it is.
MSFS sucks
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 20, 2024, 06:28:23 AM
All of the DCS WWII Warbirds have an auto rudder which can be turned on/off and an adjustable takeoff assist (0-100) which is fully on by default. Those can make it pretty easy to taxi and takeoff if you are struggling. They are under the options-special tab.
I didn't like the Spit braking system at first but it makes sense once you understand how it works and get used to it. I like better than toe brakes now. And this is how the actual plane worked.
D9: I was flying the D9 on the Wolfpack server just last Friday (I think). Coincidentally, I was thinking about how much it felt like AH. While it stalls easier in DCS, it generally rides on the same rails that all the AH planes do. Which IMO is just a sign of how things work as time goes on. The flight model in Air Warrior was GLUED to rails compared to AH.
Now that you mention it, I remember coming back to Warbirds after a few months of AH and was shocked how "on the rails" Warbirds felt. I think the same difference exists between DCS and AH. It has been a couple years since I have flown AH. I will have to get my Crystal setup for AH and give it a go offline to see how it compares now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 20, 2024, 09:30:21 AM
Let me know if you get the crystal vr working with ah
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 20, 2024, 09:55:33 AM
Typically the jets in DCS have nosewheel steering which can be turned on and off in the cockpit like their real life counterparts. Many also have assist functions in the options-special settings that make it easier than real life and these are often enabled by default. Turn 'em off if you want a more real experience. Maybe just a few jets. The F-86 especially though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 20, 2024, 11:34:57 AM
Jets are for studmuffins..and not brit cigarettes either lol :cheers: Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 20, 2024, 12:29:49 PM
Jets don't have reciprocating engines but they do have propellers. Lots and lots of them. You probably knew this but modern jet engines (turbofan) derive about 80% of their thrust from those bypass fans.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 20, 2024, 01:04:44 PM
I think a lot of impression that the FM in DCS stalls easier isn't due to the FM per se, but how they chose to model stick inputs.
I believe that some sims like AH model a guess on how much you could pull back based on loading. So on some planes maybe you pull back on your joystick 50% of travel and it only applies 35% of stick deflection in the sim because it would be a heavy pull. That is perfectly reasonable.
I believe DCS simply calculates the FM result of a given deflection and doesn't try and guess how weak or strong your arms are. Pull back 50% on your joystick, it calculates what 50% deflection of the stick in the aircraft would do. That is also reasonable. I bet they send out force data so if you had a high-end full length stick with force feedback it would simulate that resistance for you at the physical level. It'd be nice to have a toggle option.
The result is if you are used to AH FM, it is easy at first to over-control in DCS because the input by default is 1:1. So an accelerated stall is easier if you are not careful. They do provide stick scaling curves that can help a lot and the curves are specific per aircraft so you can dial-in the level of touch you can handle a little better if you don't have FFB.
I wouldn't say either approach is wrong, just different design choices.
As to the subtler aspects of the FM, I wish I had a better way to describe it, but AH does feel a little more "on-the-rails" to me than the DCS FM. I have no doubt that AH, IL2, and DCS mostly hit all the flight envelope numbers. Therefore I don't doubt that all are more\less "correct" in the whole. There are subtle differences in feel though. I guess DCS feels a tad more ..."fluid"? Like a little smoother with more subtle effects of momentum and inertia at lower speeds. Hard to quantify. I wish AH could output Tacview data. That might be easier to compare them at a numbers level.
I think AH's FM is fine for what it is choosing to simulate. I'm sure it is in the performance envelops and demonstrates enough of the rock-paper-scissors difference between different planes to allow the player to make "interesting" choices during BFM\ACM. That is what HT was shooting for. I think his FM fulfills his design goal.
Of course DCS is a different kind of product. Their obsessive fetish on the minute details is not necessary to build a pew-pew MMO, but I do appreciate the extra levels of challenge to just the flying aspect. The extra levels makes even pattern work interesting. That is not necessary for what AH is trying to do, but I'm glad someone is doing it because I enjoy just the sensation of flight in DCS.
Different strokes for different folks. Even for a particular player, on different days they may be more interested in one over the other. It's nice to have different choices.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 20, 2024, 04:39:44 PM
Jets don't have reciprocating engines but they do have propellers. Lots and lots of them. You probably knew this but modern jet engines (turbofan) derive about 80% of their thrust from those bypass fans.
Yes probably should change it to guided missiles :airplane:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 20, 2024, 04:52:15 PM
In the K4, you used to HAVE to counter torque by laying the stick all-the-way to the left and back a smudge...
RIGHT! I meant "right". Please don't try left... that would be ugly.
Also, is it just my funky braind or didn't AH rudder seems to have as much or more "roll" to it as it did Yaw? That's what I meant about the differences in the two FMs being so different.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 21, 2024, 01:27:02 PM
I think a lot of impression that the FM in DCS stalls easier isn't due to the FM per se, but how they chose to model stick inputs.
...
I believe DCS simply calculates the FM result of a given deflection and doesn't try and guess how weak or strong your arms are. Pull back 50% on your joystick, it calculates what 50% deflection of the stick in the aircraft would do. That is also reasonable. I bet they send out force data so if you had a high-end full length stick with force feedback it would simulate that resistance for you at the physical level. It'd be nice to have a toggle option.
I keep buying lottery tickets. You never know. :rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on March 21, 2024, 04:24:55 PM
Dunning-Kruger Effect on steroids. What you call facts is guess work with facts
Passive aggressive mental manipulation. One track train.
A broken record on a turn table that won’t shut off.
Where you at now? 1500 different ways to say the same thing over and over and over. I bet you’re painful to be around.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 21, 2024, 05:03:31 PM
I keep buying lottery tickets. You never know. :rofl
I miss my old MS Sidewinder FF stick more than any flight control equipment I've ever had. Someone will start producing something at a reasonable price eventually... gotta happen.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on March 21, 2024, 06:45:40 PM
I miss my old MS Sidewinder FF stick more than any flight control equipment I've ever had. Someone will start producing something at a reasonable price eventually... gotta happen.
I never spoke to a former user that wasn't fanatical about them. WTF Microsoft.
I guess they fell victim to that deadzone time period when everyone thought flightsims were dying off.
Never had one myself.
That, VR, Seatkicker, full motion spinning chair thingie...I wish I were rich.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2024, 09:39:24 PM
If you were rich what would you have left to wish for?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 21, 2024, 10:01:52 PM
Thinking about it as well. Just need more info as far as the Virpil pass through. I actually prefer to build it myself so I can maintain it better.
The body and workings of the force feedback is independent of the Virpil grip functions. Two separate controllers. The force feedback unit provides the stick physical axes, electronic axes, and motion feedback while the Virpil grip provides all the buttons and axes apart from the axes built into the Virpil base. Just a matter of routing the grip through an extension cable to the base sitting beside or somewhere near the force feedback base. Just use the force feedback base for the x and y game axes instead of the virpil axes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 21, 2024, 10:56:52 PM
I agree with Hazmatt and Tumor that rudder input is more important outside of AH.
Now that you mention it, I remember coming back to Warbirds after a few months of AH and was shocked how "on the rails" Warbirds felt. I think the same difference exists between DCS and AH. It has been a couple years since I have flown AH. I will have to get my Crystal setup for AH and give it a go offline to see how it compares now.
Installed AH after flying DCS for over two years to compare.
For those interested, the Pimax Crystal runs AH very well using SteamVR. I could have run OpenComposite to eliminate SteamVR and get better performance, but it was not necessary. Coming from a G2 in AH to the Crystal is a great step up. Nice having edge to edge clarity instead of a sweet spot.
When I took my first flights in AH (only in the P-51D, P-47, 109K, 190a8, I-16, Spit9, and Mossie) it felt like I was stuck in mud with regards to control response. Then I remembered about the deadzone and damper settings. Adjusting those settings all the way down on all axis made a noticeable difference, though it still feels a little sluggish in all the birds, especially roll rate. Flying DCS has trained me in a lighter touch on my controllers due to the responsiveness of the flight model.
The "bones" of the different flight models are all there in AH (left wing dropout in the P-51, 190a8 dropping out on either wing, etc.). What I found surprising was the amount of warning AH gives you compared to DCS. The stall horn and buffet really hit you over the head before the aircraft departs controlled flight. There is little chance of an accelerated stall surprising you.
The nose bounce issues came rushing back to me. Kinda like sitting on a big rubber ball while taking aim. I remember having to stick scale to tone down the bounce in AH. All in all the gun platform is more stable in DCS than AH.
Tracers are also more of an aiming distraction in AH compared to DCS. That is why I always played AH with tracers off.
The AH flight models blow Warbirds and WarThunder out of the water as far as responsive feel. The DCS flight models are more responsive than AH, but the difference is not as great, with the exception of ground handling, taxi, and takeoff.
On a side note, another surprise for me was how the size of the cockpits in AH are very close to each other in VR. When you get into a DCS Spit9 in VR you feel like you have to suck in your gut to fit and a 190a8 feels palatial.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 22, 2024, 04:35:56 PM
I stand corrected. DCS does model stick forces. The effect is just less on the pony and that is what I have been flying most. Apparently that was historical and the pony could be more prone to airframe damage if over corrected at speed.
It is supposed to be really noticeable on the K4 which I haven't flown much. As with most things in software, tweaking for the sweet spot is an on going effort.
Good to know. I was getting monkey pounded by a K4 at 28k me in a pony. I next time I need to lure him into faster dive turns. I think the pony turns better at speed and the K4 gets stiff.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 22, 2024, 06:16:02 PM
I flew the spit last night for the first time. Touchy stick, lots of power
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 22, 2024, 06:33:01 PM
Falcon, going back to the mid 80's, was long the standard by which I measured flight sims. Many attempts have been made to rejuvenate Falcon 4 but compared to DCS only the dynamic campaign shines, imo. Microprose re-aquired the copyright but it will take a Microsoft team level to make it again competitive. We shall see.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 22, 2024, 11:51:24 PM
I got il2 1946 and the cliffs of dover toburk combo on the last sale.
I'm working on getting 1946 downloaded and was told I need to get the bat mod.
Any advice on setting up either one for a noobie?
I was looking for some videos to see what they looked like and found this one from a few years back. The graphics don't look as dated as I thought and from what I've read the game will have VR support in the near future.\ https://youtu.be/wXpV6SqaMjU
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 23, 2024, 02:34:12 AM
I got il2 1946 and the cliffs of dover toburk combo on the last sale.
I'm working on getting 1946 downloaded and was told I need to get the bat mod.
Any advice on setting up either one for a noobie?
I was looking for some videos to see what they looked like and found this one from a few years back. The graphics don't look as dated as I thought and from what I've read the game will have VR support in the near future.\ https://youtu.be/wXpV6SqaMjU
Nictmere (another old AH'r) on Youboob goes through setting up 1946 w/Bat (among others).
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on March 23, 2024, 09:32:28 AM
Nictmere (another old AH'r) on Youboob goes through setting up 1946 w/Bat (among others).
Yes he has good videos for 1946. I asked him to come back for MOTA but he said he can’t see well enough anymore for multiplayer play lol. Just does single player IL2 stuff but he has really good videos. Even some old AH ones.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 23, 2024, 09:33:38 AM
I got il2 1946 and the cliffs of dover toburk combo on the last sale.
I'm working on getting 1946 downloaded and was told I need to get the bat mod.
Any advice on setting up either one for a noobie?
I was looking for some videos to see what they looked like and found this one from a few years back. The graphics don't look as dated as I thought and from what I've read the game will have VR support in the near future.\ https://youtu.be/wXpV6SqaMjU
Enigma's discord has an IL2 channel with some active 1946 guys. They seem nice and laid back and helpful. https://discord.gg/enigma89 (https://discord.gg/enigma89)
Look for a guy named Sercrets or Pinguim.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 23, 2024, 02:17:03 PM
I got 1946 installed and running without the mods. I must say it's probably the best $2.95 I've spent. I'm having a blast and haven't even installed the mods yet. Now I just gotta figure out how to play online so I can club some seals. Too bad I'll probably be the seal getting clubbed! I read there's some mod you can use for VR that I have to look into.
Downloading CLOD now. I'm really surprised how nice the graphics look for it's age. Clickable cockpits gonna be a new thing for me. It's interesting that they got rid of them in the BoX series.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 23, 2024, 02:36:12 PM
I got 1946 installed and running without the mods. I must say it's probably the best $2.95 I've spent. I'm having a blast and haven't even installed the mods yet. Now I just gotta figure out how to play online so I can club some seals. Too bad I'll probably be the seal getting clubbed! I read there's some mod you can use for VR that I have to look into.
Downloading CLOD now. I'm really surprised how nice the graphics look for it's age. Clickable cockpits gonna be a new thing for me. It's interesting that they got rid of them in the BoX series.
CLOD is promising VR is around the corner. But it was saying that 4 years ago.
1946 doesn't support VR natively. People have suggested trying VorpX hack it, but I heard the results are not optimal.
AH VR support is still the best IMHO.
In DCS\IL2 GB you can approach it I think with VR + NeckSafer app.
I use TraclIR in DCS.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 23, 2024, 02:39:26 PM
Downloading CLOD now. I'm really surprised how nice the graphics look for it's age. Clickable cockpits gonna be a new thing for me. It's interesting that they got rid of them in the BoX series.
I have a better machine now than when I first tried CLOD. It was def ahead of it's time, but just couldn't fully execute before the devs bailed.
The channel water color and texture looks so real though.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 23, 2024, 02:42:06 PM
CLOD is promising VR is around the corner. But it was saying that 4 years ago.
1946 doesn't support VR natively. People have suggested trying VorpX hack it, but I heard the results are not optimal.
Ya, that VorpX thing is it. I probably won't mess as it looks like a time sink and if the results aren't optimal you probably saved me a ton of time and disappointment. Thanks.
I think the CLOD VR is close as I've talked to somebody who was beta testing it.
Are there any 1946 servers online? I see videos of people flying 1946 online but when I click on the servers I don't see any listed. Maybe it's because I don't have the BAT mod installed yet?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 23, 2024, 02:47:12 PM
CLOD is promising VR is around the corner. But it was saying that 4 years ago.
1946 doesn't support VR natively. People have suggested trying VorpX hack it, but I heard the results are not optimal.
AH VR support is still the best IMHO.
In DCS\IL2 GB you can approach it I think with VR + NeckSafer app.
I use TraclIR in DCS.
I agree that AH3 has the best VR implementation.
Yes I use Necksafer in IL2 but I still haven't been able to get that openVR thing working to get rid of SteamVR so it's still not optimal for me. Another annoyance is that the oculus software keeps turning on optimization stuff that I have to turn off EVERY time I launch IL2 or it's blurry.
I recently got a better monitor so I need to look into some trackIR kinda thing. I was thinking maybe I should try one of the free ones to see if I like it but then again, I might not like it because it's the free version and not as good.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 23, 2024, 02:50:36 PM
I have a better machine now than when I first tried CLOD. It was def ahead of it's time, but just couldn't fully execute before the devs bailed.
The channel water color and texture looks so real though.
It seems that the guys working on the IL2 series are good at banging something functional together that works but not so good at polishing or refining it. Maybe it's a Russian thing?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 23, 2024, 02:55:21 PM
I've been using TrackIR for many years. If you decide to go that route buy their pro clip. I used the included reflector for a couple of years. It's okay. Then I made my own 3d printed lighted clips. They were much better but because they are flat the ir leds tended to overlap. The pro clip is curved and doesn't have that problem.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 23, 2024, 03:08:17 PM
BTW, some of the IR LEDs I got from China were reversed polarity. If they don't light try switching.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 23, 2024, 03:51:54 PM
Ya, that VorpX thing is it. I probably won't mess as it looks like a time sink and if the results aren't optimal you probably saved me a ton of time and disappointment. Thanks.
I think the CLOD VR is close as I've talked to somebody who was beta testing it.
Are there any 1946 servers online? I see videos of people flying 1946 online but when I click on the servers I don't see any listed. Maybe it's because I don't have the BAT mod installed yet?
From what I understood from Sercrets, MP is pretty thin. Too many flavors out there and a lot run different packs and the packs require different ver.
Appearently for MP, people have multiple copies of the game installed with different ve and packs adn they use which based on where they wanted to play.
BAT is mainly for SP I believe.
It seems Ultrapack is used on most of the active servers.
So you'd want that on a different install copy. lol
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 23, 2024, 04:24:01 PM
Thanks. Haven't heard of ultra pack. Will have to check that out.
I have CLOD installed. Went sightseeing flying a spitfire over London. Wow the level of detail there was surprising. I flew by Big Ben. I was able to find servers with just the base install. Looks like a couple of them had decent numbers too.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 23, 2024, 09:03:31 PM
I've been using TrackIR for many years. If you decide to go that route buy their pro clip. I used the included reflector for a couple of years. It's okay. Then I made my own 3d printed lighted clips. They were much better but because they are flat the ir leds tended to overlap. The pro clip is curved and doesn't have that problem.
I used one of these for a couple years. The batteries finally ran out of steam... so I've been wired with the pro-clip again for awhile. I'm told they had improved on the batteries. Not sure. I keep my headset plugged in anyway because, well batteries suck so I figured I'd just as well rather than keep spending money. I tape it all together and don't even notice now. https://delanclip.com/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 24, 2024, 11:17:38 AM
https://youtu.be/WLRE1ri5oHA?si=IZMi4xPxAYFP-yv4
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 24, 2024, 12:25:59 PM
I used one of these for a couple years. The batteries finally ran out of steam... so I've been wired with the pro-clip again for awhile. I'm told they had improved on the batteries. Not sure. I keep my headset plugged in anyway because, well batteries suck so I figured I'd just as well rather than keep spending money. I tape it all together and don't even notice now. https://delanclip.com/
I use a wired headset so don't mind the extra wire from the clip, I just tie strap them together. That Delan clip is flat like the ones I made. I stuck mine to the side of my headset with double sided tape. Because they were oriented vertically when I looked up or down to the extreme the LEDs would overlap to the camera and it would stop tracking. I suppose you could arrange a flat 3 LED clip so that it is not fully vertical but tilted a bit so they would not overlap.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 24, 2024, 02:30:25 PM
How does the face tracking work? do you need LEDs for all of them? I'd like to setup something basic so I can get an idea how it works before I buy stuff. Would I be better off buying some LEDs? I'm guessing they're not expensive.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 24, 2024, 02:47:16 PM
How does the face tracking work? do you need LEDs for all of them? I'd like to setup something basic so I can get an idea how it works before I buy stuff. Would I be better off buying some LEDs? I'm guessing they're not expensive.
Ya know... Tobii's another option worth looking at. Took me awhile to get it working to my satisfaction, but I love it. Unfortunately, when DCS gets noisy the wife-ack is so strong you can walk on it. And, now I'm not 100% certain on this but I think it throws one of those blackscreen USB Overcharge(overvoltage?)/shutdown errors.... but on only on startup.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 25, 2024, 10:20:27 AM
There are some cheaper head tracking methods than TrackIR for sure. You can buy a PS3 camera pretty cheap on ebay ($15) but you'll have to remove the IR filter yourself. Use that with a homemade IR LED clip and Opentrack. The TrackIR sensor has a higher res and a faster scan I believe though.
I've read that it's likely unnecessary to remove the PS3 lens filter. Just put a piece of floppy disk or exposed film over the lens. Or buy a filter for $5.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 25, 2024, 01:06:25 PM
Yeah. Just run by K-Mart and pick up a cheap roll of tech-pan while listening to "Children of the Sun" on your 8-track.
Millennials are looking at you with blank stare. :D
I have some old negatives, they might work. Sadly, I left all my old floppies in Idaho when I moved to Texas last year. I just bought a ps3 camera on ebay for 15 bucks to play around with.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 26, 2024, 05:10:35 AM
Wow! That's impressive! I have often that kind of airscrew after landing 109, here and IL-2. :joystick:
Landing wasn't what did it... well, I did land, but after I bonked a truck I'd recently put a strafing on. Only maybe 10mi back to strip, but got me to wondering if the thing would actually fly with that kind of damage (FM kinda thing)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 27, 2024, 03:41:14 AM
Landing wasn't what did it... well, I did land, but after I bonked a truck I'd recently put a strafing on. Only maybe 10mi back to strip, but got me to wondering if the thing would actually fly with that kind of damage (FM kinda thing)
My strafing especially in IL-2 ends often similar way or I find myself sitting upside down in bushes surrounded by virtual wreck. Response to controls is so different compared with AH, no rails at all. And AH was hard in the beginning after WarBirds.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 27, 2024, 02:30:00 PM
No rails for sure! The interesting thing I find about IL2 is that my gunnery passes look much more like the gun cam footage I've seen from WW2. I really find myself using the rudder much more during gunnery passes in IL2.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Dadtallica on March 27, 2024, 03:30:56 PM
No rails for sure! The interesting thing I find about IL2 is that my gunnery passes look much more like the gun cam footage I've seen from WW2. I really find myself using the rudder much more during gunnery passes in IL2.
Because IL has crosswinds from floor to ceiling. AH has wind but it’s not exactly kinetic if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on March 27, 2024, 10:25:20 PM
No rails for sure! The interesting thing I find about IL2 is that my gunnery passes look much more like the gun cam footage I've seen from WW2. I really find myself using the rudder much more during gunnery passes in IL2.
My only real gripe with IL2 is that tendency of your gunsight to pull-off-target as you close in... it's subtle, but I ~always~ have to fight that and I really think it's something they programmed in. I could be wrong, but... it's really weird how your rudders (among other controls) seem to be not quite right under those specific circumstances.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on March 27, 2024, 11:04:53 PM
My only real gripe with IL2 is that tendency of your gunsight to pull-off-target as you close in... it's subtle, but I ~always~ have to fight that and I really think it's something they programmed in. I could be wrong, but... it's really weird how your rudders (among other controls) seem to be not quite right under those specific circumstances.
Buck fever? ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 28, 2024, 07:58:32 AM
I can't recall, will IL-2 show the control inputs on the screen like DCS? Could be useful in learning to deal with that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on March 28, 2024, 08:47:31 AM
Installed AH after flying DCS for over two years to compare.
For those interested, the Pimax Crystal runs AH very well using SteamVR. I could have run OpenComposite to eliminate SteamVR and get better performance, but it was not necessary. Coming from a G2 in AH to the Crystal is a great step up. Nice having edge to edge clarity instead of a sweet spot.
When I took my first flights in AH (only in the P-51D, P-47, 109K, 190a8, I-16, Spit9, and Mossie) it felt like I was stuck in mud with regards to control response. Then I remembered about the deadzone and damper settings. Adjusting those settings all the way down on all axis made a noticeable difference, though it still feels a little sluggish in all the birds, especially roll rate. Flying DCS has trained me in a lighter touch on my controllers due to the responsiveness of the flight model.
The "bones" of the different flight models are all there in AH (left wing dropout in the P-51, 190a8 dropping out on either wing, etc.). What I found surprising was the amount of warning AH gives you compared to DCS. The stall horn and buffet really hit you over the head before the aircraft departs controlled flight. There is little chance of an accelerated stall surprising you.
The nose bounce issues came rushing back to me. Kinda like sitting on a big rubber ball while taking aim. I remember having to stick scale to tone down the bounce in AH. All in all the gun platform is more stable in DCS than AH.
Tracers are also more of an aiming distraction in AH compared to DCS. That is why I always played AH with tracers off.
The AH flight models blow Warbirds and WarThunder out of the water as far as responsive feel. The DCS flight models are more responsive than AH, but the difference is not as great, with the exception of ground handling, taxi, and takeoff.
On a side note, another surprise for me was how the size of the cockpits in AH are very close to each other in VR. When you get into a DCS Spit9 in VR you feel like you have to suck in your gut to fit and a 190a8 feels palatial.
Howdy Tshark
Does the pimax use fresnel lenses?
I swapped those out in my vive pro for the clearer Sony gear lens mod
Is there a mod for the pimax to do that do you know?
Does it have the frontal space for glasses?
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 28, 2024, 09:26:27 AM
Tried my brothers Pimax Crystal with the eye tracking foveated rendering on. Tried to see if I could tell the res was less where I wasn't looking. I could not tell. Don't confuse this with the sweet spot in other headsets that are sharp only where your head tracking in pointed. They are not the same at all.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on March 28, 2024, 11:58:27 AM
I can't recall, will IL-2 show the control inputs on the screen like DCS? Could be useful in learning to deal with that sort of thing.
Nope. Or at least I haven't found that function yet. Also HUD differs between servers. Some have lots of info while some others none.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 31, 2024, 02:47:24 PM
I moved DCS from my SSD to my hardrive as I was running out of room on my SSD and now it's not launching for some reason. Is there something I need to do? IL2 BoX worked fine when I did the same.
I finally got to spend some time to mess around with the IL2 stuff I bought during the last steam sale.
So, l got IL2 1946 running without mods (plain vanilla at the moment) I must say it looks a lot like AH3 minus the VR (which to me is a big deal) I do still feel like it was worth ever cent of the $2.95 I spent on it. lolz
I also picked up IL2 CLOD with the expansion pack on it. I was very surprised that the graphics look almost as good and IL2 BoX in my opinion. I can't wait until they release the new expansion and VR support. I know somebody who is doing beta testing for the VR so I hope it's close to being released.
I was able to get some help on the online servers to answer some questions about getting started. As stated by many before the interface is not the most intuitive. There is also an option to set up a local server which I plan to do to play with my kids.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2024, 03:43:47 PM
I've moved it around before with no problems. You aren't trying to launch if from the same shortcut as before the move right?
I really like Skatezillas launcher which will also require reconfig after the move.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2024, 03:45:39 PM
Sorry if that is too obvious. I work in IT and have seen things. ;)
My executable is here. Yours will be simlar.
C:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on March 31, 2024, 04:46:13 PM
Ya. I deleted the old shortcut and made a new shortcut to the new location. It launches fine but freezes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on March 31, 2024, 07:28:54 PM
https://youtu.be/7WzkFC3S5g8?si=sYC7sEkd1ushRYw2
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on March 31, 2024, 08:32:33 PM
I swapped those out in my vive pro for the clearer Sony gear lens mod
Is there a mod for the pimax to do that do you know?
Does it have the frontal space for glasses?
Eagler
Hey Eagler,
The Pimax Crystal uses glass aspheric lenses. This gives you edge to edge clarity, no god rays, and no screen door effect. Also blacks are blacker, so instruments are easier to read and nights are truly black.
The Crystal comes with two face pads that have cutouts for eyeglass side pieces. For my face I found that the face pads allowed for light leakage. I had a 24mm PU leather face pad from VR Cover that I tried on my G2. It fit perfectly on the Crystal. It allows me to wear glasses, but I use prescription lens for the Crystal instead.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on April 02, 2024, 08:12:26 AM
Thanks Tshark!
Which one do you have? The 5k or the 8k?
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 02, 2024, 08:16:23 AM
If I was inclined to jump back into VR, I'm not, I would go with a Pimax Crystal. I've used the first Oculus Rift, the Quest 2, and the Reverb G2. The Pimax Crystal is in another class.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 02, 2024, 08:26:51 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 02, 2024, 08:41:59 AM
Yes, the Pimax Crystal is the next gen above the 8K. Pimax is working on the 12K, but it is at least another 2 years away. Currently the Pimax Crystal is "state of the art" in VR.
As far as Aces High is concerned just imagine the image you see on a 4K monitor rendered in VR with the same clarity and with 3D and head tracking added in.
For games like DCS, the eye tracking allows for foveated rendering so that your computer only does high res where you are looking. You don't notice any difference in your perceived visual, but your computer is getting a 35% or better performance boost.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 02, 2024, 08:49:26 AM
I didn't know much about the fovea and macula until I had an occlusion a few years ago. It's a struggle to read with just that eye now. You might be inclined to think you could notice a significant reduction in resolution of an area adjacent to that where your fovea is focused. You can't.
If you want to test that for yourself pick a spot at the end of this sentence and focus your eyes on that spot, maybe put your cursor there to help keep your focus. Without moving your focus see how far away from that spot you can read the words that are in your view.
You might think, yeah, I can't read it without "looking" at it. Exactly.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 02, 2024, 09:23:51 AM
Or if you have eyeglasses just focus on the center of your screen, then without moving your head look at the four corners of your monitor. You will notice the corners are blurry.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 02, 2024, 09:48:27 AM
BTW-if you have a VR headset without eye tracking you can use "foveated fixed rendering" in DCS. This will give you a performance boost by high res rendering in the "sweet spot" only. You will have to move your head instead of just your eyes to look around, but you are already doing this with any VR headset that does not have eye tracking.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 04, 2024, 07:40:42 AM
This looking good and progressing faster than thought.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 04, 2024, 08:49:29 AM
This looking good and progressing faster than thought.
Looking pretty good. I know it will probably end up looking pretty nice overall. I hope their engine does have a good damage model. My all time favorite damage model is Battlefield 4, where buildings crumble and walls blow out next to you. I don't understand why more games haven't gone that direction. Takes realness up a notch. I just hope it's not cheesy like WT. Too many cheesy games now. I want this to be a hard-core game for the older crowd and not geared towards children. Hoping it the flight model feels good as well. I know it's gonna be a while, but it certainly feels they are dedicated.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 04, 2024, 09:28:00 AM
They are scheduled to appear at the Flight Sim Expo in Vegas this June. The developer hopes to have an "early access" flyable version available to all this summer as well.
Looking pretty good. I know it will probably end up looking pretty nice overall. I hope their engine does have a good damage model. My all time favorite damage model is Battlefield 4, where buildings crumble and walls blow out next to you. I don't understand why more games haven't gone that direction. Takes realness up a notch. I just hope it's not cheesy like WT. Too many cheesy games now. I want this to be a hard-core game for the older crowd and not geared towards children. Hoping it the flight model feels good as well. I know it's gonna be a while, but it certainly feels they are dedicated.
From his last interview I listened to, it seemed clear to me he was going more toward the high-fidelity end of the scale. Whether he wants to go to the fetish level that DCS does is not clear. I'd like that level of FM, I don't know about every cockpit switch clickable. Cool if it is, but the FM is the MOST import req, IMHO.
It's clear the intent is not a casual game. My guess would be something in between IL2 GB and DCS.
$0.02
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 04, 2024, 10:44:23 AM
"Sherman, set the Wayback machine to..."
I enjoyed this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN1mNNRqu0A
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: icepac on April 04, 2024, 01:19:40 PM
Wow…..the 1994 con was 30 years ago.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 04, 2024, 01:34:44 PM
Big drama between ED and RAZBAM underway. Losers will be the users of course.
It is easy to forget that our entertainment is a business just like any other. I remember when Wild Bill took over Warbirds. Really sucked, luckily nature abhors a vacuum and other options appeared.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 05, 2024, 10:28:17 AM
The downside of the 3rd party vendor system. More CEO ego's to juggle.
ED better be completely in the wrong here or I'd have to think airing contractual beefs would be a professional suicide.
Lol. As long as I still get my Kiowa. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 05, 2024, 05:19:25 PM
I like RAZBAM. Their modules are comparable to EDs. Heatblur is a step ahead.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 06, 2024, 05:43:07 PM
It is really hard to top this action.
https://youtu.be/UBh7uGbA9bI?si=23G9U_mWuszeISiR
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 06, 2024, 07:54:00 PM
Just spitballing here... but, I kinda doubt this will end well.
Do you remember the HAWK debacle?
Oh the drama. An outsider would think the flightsim would was populated mainly by teenage girls. ;)
Hawk was before my time. I am waiting for more info before taking sides.
However, that said, regardless of the real issue, it seems to me the the Razbam dev is acting very unprofessionally. Even if completely in the right (which I am increasingly doubtful of).
The beginning of the story is slowly appearing to clarify. It looks like maybe Razbam had broken some IP conditions of it's contract with ED and maybe ED has an enforcement clause and is withholding payments to the vendor until they get back in compliance or in some other way correct the situation.
Ed only makes part of it's money off the consumer product. A big chuck comes from their work with various militaries providing trainers, so anyone jacking with that, I can understand them not having a sense of humor about. There are always things you can fault ED about, but in this situation, IMHO, ED has been acting restrained and professional.
That isn't to say they are not playing hardball, but you have a fiduciary duty to your stockholders to protect your IP and markets, and if you have to strap on you 6-shooters to protect those, you do what you gotta do.
But it is still too early to grasp the whole story and I'm not going to form a hard opinion until more comes out. However, Razbam better be 100% in the right here and ED 100% in the wrong, because anything less I'd have to assume at least this devs career is over, and maybe Razbam is toast. This is what lawyers are for and running to an internet forum to pull your pants down and show your bum is not how professionals handle contract disputes. If I were MSFS or X-plane, I'd be very hesitant to work with Razbam at this point. Even if they are 100% in the right, this behavior is unprofessional AF, but good entertainment. ;)
Red meat for the Floggit crowd. ;)
So yeah, the Hawk, this and Oleg's Normandy thing are examples of the downside of the 3rd party developer model. There are never perfect solutions in life, only trade-offs.
I don't care too much because jets are for gurls. ;)
I think this will pretty get you up to date on the latest of what we know:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 07, 2024, 04:22:29 AM
When you don't get paid for work performed
How long are you gonna go without saying something?
I have heard that ED owes razbam over $350,000
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 07, 2024, 09:02:11 AM
How long are you gonna go without saying something?
I have heard that ED owes razbam over $350,000
If I hire a contractor to do work on my house and they are not doing the work as specified in the contract, and I have an enforcement clause, if I can't get immediate compliance I will exercise that clause and withhold payment. That's the step I take short of suing them. It's the leverage the payor has.
Especially if the contract breach is the contractor violating my IP rights which would be like stealing from me while on the job site.
I don't know if this is the case, but it is sorta coming out like this slowly.
If ED just on a lark, out of the blue, for no reason just decided to stop paying, that would be a different story, but running on to the internet to pull your pants down and show your bum is still not the professional way to handle things. That what contracts and lawyers are for.
The CEO Razbam seems to be backing down now releasing a statement that looks more like a professional hashing out a contractual dispute.
I suspect the rogue dev is gone. Probably needs to find a new industry now.
The whole thing smells. At first the dev was trying to make it sound like ED was not paying for no reason at all. Bringing up all kinds of smear about the ED CEO buying fancy airplanes and stuff that has nothing to do with the issue. I think if Razbam wasn't getting paid for 8 months and was totally in the right, they would have just files suit by now. Sounds like they weren't getting paid for a reason and didn't have a leg to stand on in court and couldn't sue.
It made no sense ED would jsut stop payment for no reason, just randomly stop paying because they are evil and thought they could getaway with that without getting sued.
Slowly it has been coming out that, ohhhhh, there was a reason. Maybe Razbam was in breach of contract and maybe violated ED's IP. That starts to make much more sense.
Still the whole issue isn't completely clear so we need more of the facts. If the dev that started this wanted to be taken seriously, he should have poured out the entire fact pattern in all the details to show they were in the right. Not a bunch of vague insinuation and 99%'er whining about rich CEO oppressing the down-trodden Proletariat. :rofl Because if it starts to come out later that oh, you were violating their IP? That's why payment was being withheld? Oh, now the dev has lost all credibility and sympathy.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 07, 2024, 09:41:24 AM
Did someone mention 3rd party developers?
https://youtu.be/s2YY2gQ76cw?si=xgSjKLlXt_8mKu-0
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 07, 2024, 01:45:06 PM
If I hire a contractor to do work on my house and they are not doing the work as specified in the contract, and I have an enforcement clause, if I can't get immediate compliance I will exercise that clause and withhold payment. That's the step I take short of suing them. It's the leverage the payor has.
Especially if the contract breach is the contractor violating my IP rights which would be like stealing from me while on the job site.
I don't know if this is the case, but it is sorta coming out like this slowly.
If ED just on a lark, out of the blue, for no reason just decided to stop paying, that would be a different story, but running on to the internet to pull your pants down and show your bum is still not the professional way to handle things. That what contracts and lawyers are for.
The CEO Razbam seems to be backing down now releasing a statement that looks more like a professional hashing out a contractual dispute.
I suspect the rogue dev is gone. Probably needs to find a new industry now.
The whole thing smells. At first the dev was trying to make it sound like ED was not paying for no reason at all. Bringing up all kinds of smear about the ED CEO buying fancy airplanes and stuff that has nothing to do with the issue. I think if Razbam wasn't getting paid for 8 months and was totally in the right, they would have just files suit by now. Sounds like they weren't getting paid for a reason and didn't have a leg to stand on in court and couldn't sue.
It made no sense ED would jsut stop payment for no reason, just randomly stop paying because they are evil and thought they could getaway with that without getting sued.
Slowly it has been coming out that, ohhhhh, there was a reason. Maybe Razbam was in breach of contract and maybe violated ED's IP. That starts to make much more sense.
Still the whole issue isn't completely clear so we need more of the facts. If the dev that started this wanted to be taken seriously, he should have poured out the entire fact pattern in all the details to show they were in the right. Not a bunch of vague insinuation and 99%'er whining about rich CEO oppressing the down-trodden Proletariat. :rofl Because if it starts to come out later that oh, you were violating their IP? That's why payment was being withheld? Oh, now the dev has lost all credibility and sympathy.
Stop looking in the wrong direction.
They called out Eagle Dynamics as a last ditch effort.
Kind of like being in a middle school cut-down fight....if you don't have anything left to say theres always your mom to talk about.
Razbam has hit the end of the road and talked about eagle dynamics mom.
You may say its childish...but its all they had left, other than waiting outside the school for eagle dynamics to come outside.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 07, 2024, 02:20:17 PM
The last couple weeks I dove into the Warbirds of DCS. When I found aces high back in 2000 and played it until 2011 I thought it was the most badass WW2 flight sim ever. I have turned blue in the face promoting Aces High to friends and other gamers for years.
Having typed all that I feel foolish to have ever thought that. Aces High is just another game. It is totally easy mode in comparison. All these statements about the AH flight model are laughable to me after fully going down the DCS Warbird rabbit hole. I have to re-learn every aircrafts limitations all while managing to maintain normal flight without seizing the engine up. In the past I have saw aircraft in Aces High do things that are not possible in real life giving me a Arma/GTA V vibe.
Then I see all these arguments on this BB about " I'll out fly you and everybody else" In Aces High those people are the Sh*t, but in other games where the modeling is a close to real as you can get those same people would not be the Sh*t. Which is why a lot of them will never play those other games.
Now this has nothing to do with my abilities as a cartoon pilot at all. This is an observation from someone who started in DCS in Helicopters and has now went back to Warbirds.
A week ago in the popular Wolfpack server I was spectating a fight between a 109 and a spit. The 109 for the spit into a situation which caused the spits engine to seize up and allowing the 109 to shoot down the spitfire.
The whole look of DCS warbirds is 150 times better. Going in for a bomb run in a P-51 and the bombs didn't drop because you didn't have the right switch selected is just crazy.
All these threads about not being able to find a good fight or the HOARDERS keep rolling the other two countries or Two countries would be so much better
Guess what. In the DCS warbirds server there is
two countries no base HOARDERS and plenty of fights.
The only problem is having a good enough machine to play And actually learning to fly an aircraft.
I am just loving the DCS Warbirds
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 07, 2024, 02:35:35 PM
They called out Eagle Dynamics as a last ditch effort.
Kind of like being in a middle school cut-down fight....if you don't have anything left to say theres always your mom to talk about.
Razbam has hit the end of the road and talked about eagle dynamics mom.
You may say its childish...but its all they had left, other than waiting outside the school for eagle dynamics to come outside.
Well, it's not middle-school, and these are supposed to adult professionals not middle-schoolers.
This is what lawyers are for, and any lawyer is going to tell them to get off the internet and shut their pie hole. They're probably just hurting their case if they have one.
And it is sounding more like they actually were the ones in the wrong, but we may never find out the whole story either way.
Anyway, not my circus and not my monkey.
And they're not making the Kiowa. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 07, 2024, 10:03:46 PM
Anyway... Polychop better be on it this time. Having improved a whole lot somewhat recently (all things considered), the Gazelle FM was complete & total cow doody on release and for the better part of a decade. The thing (FM) felt like someone plastered DCS level graphics on an FM created for a C64.
Backing up a bit, I don't remember a lot of the details regarding the HAWK, however I remember getting the distinct feeling that VEAO simply wanted out so they could move on to other things (which they did, I haven't a clue if it worked out for them or not). IMO, the long-story-short of it was ED held their feet to the fire, so they bailed in the most painful way possible, not caring one iota about the paying customer. Sure, you can still get ahold of it on Steam, I think, and even fly it if you want to back up a dozen versions of DCS World, but it wasn't "done" in the first place and really wasn't anything to get excited about anyway. there was a lot of talk about trying to reach an amicable agreement in the interim. Didn't happen. But hey, it was the HAWK, so 8 out of 10 casual DCSrs didn't really care.
Don't quote me on this, but RAZBAM has had some kinda-funny-lookin issues in the past... like someone got sick or died or something and they went dark for a very long time. And, aren't they like 5 whole people? And, WHY the hell the Pucara????? Whatever, I don't really see them as a stable investment in DCS... I bet they rake the dough in from P3D.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 08, 2024, 01:27:00 AM
The last couple weeks I dove into the Warbirds of DCS. When I found aces high back in 2000 and played it until 2011 I thought it was the most badass WW2 flight sim ever. I have turned blue in the face promoting Aces High to friends and other gamers for years.
Having typed all that I feel foolish to have ever thought that. Aces High is just another game. It is totally easy mode in comparison. All these statements about the AH flight model are laughable to me after fully going down the DCS Warbird rabbit hole. I have to re-learn every aircrafts limitations all while managing to maintain normal flight without seizing the engine up. In the past I have saw aircraft in Aces High do things that are not possible in real life giving me a Arma/GTA V vibe.
Then I see all these arguments on this BB about " I'll out fly you and everybody else" In Aces High those people are the Sh*t, but in other games where the modeling is a close to real as you can get those same people would not be the Sh*t. Which is why a lot of them will never play those other games.
Now this has nothing to do with my abilities as a cartoon pilot at all. This is an observation from someone who started in DCS in Helicopters and has now went back to Warbirds.
A week ago in the popular Wolfpack server I was spectating a fight between a 109 and a spit. The 109 for the spit into a situation which caused the spits engine to seize up and allowing the 109 to shoot down the spitfire.
The whole look of DCS warbirds is 150 times better. Going in for a bomb run in a P-51 and the bombs didn't drop because you didn't have the right switch selected is just crazy.
All these threads about not being able to find a good fight or the HOARDERS keep rolling the other two countries or Two countries would be so much better
Guess what. In the DCS warbirds server there is
two countries no base HOARDERS and plenty of fights.
The only problem is having a good enough machine to play And actually learning to fly an aircraft.
I am just loving the DCS Warbirds
That's a good write up. Even thought I know IL2 is easymode compared to DCS it's far more complex then AH3 and not just the engine management. Trimming the aircraft based on the speed is very important for example.You are constantly trimming the plane. If you're trimmed for fast, your plane won't turn well slow. If you're trimmed for slow you can't keep the nose down fast. There's no "combat trim" Another is aileron flutter. You can look at your ailerons and see it starting to happen. The spin modeling and the P-factor too. I could go on and on.
Maybe one of these days I'll graduate to DCS but for now I'm very much enjoying IL2. I enjoy it so much that I bought all of the Battle series, Most of the expansion planes except for stuff like the glider. I've bought CLOD and the expansion and I'm waiting for that one to release the B17s and 190s and the VR that's under beta test.
The thing I've noticed about IL2 is that almost every time I log on there's new players or returning players, something that I don't recall seeing on a daily basis in AH for a long time. I do hope that changes. It's good to see some old timers coming back so maybe it's the start of something new.
Another thing that I noticed was there were 2 of us (109s) approaching a spit9 who was a decent pilot I got there first and engaged so the other 109 broke off and let us fight. I I was in an F2 and it was a white knuckled fight which I managed to win in the end. Since we had fought down to the deck he was close to me and quite a bit above when he airstarted. He could have used his alt to dive on me and try to extract his revenge but instead he said "GF" and engaged the other pilot who had been watching. I stayed out of the fight and let them go at it. I really enjoy playing like this and not having to worry about the 500 mph picking pony. Granted this is not the normal scenario type server like combat box. On the other hand I have fun on those kind of servers too. Nothing like coming up on a gaggle of planes all shooting at each other and trying to figure out who is friendly and enemy as there is no killshooter.
Just my 1 cent that used to be 2 cents due to inflation.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 08, 2024, 05:03:58 AM
That's a good write up. Even thought I know IL2 is easymode compared to DCS it's far more complex then AH3 and not just the engine management. Trimming the aircraft based on the speed is very important for example.You are constantly trimming the plane. If you're trimmed for fast, your plane won't turn well slow. If you're trimmed for slow you can't keep the nose down fast. There's no "combat trim" Another is aileron flutter. You can look at your ailerons and see it starting to happen. The spin modeling and the P-factor too. I could go on and on.
Maybe one of these days I'll graduate to DCS but for now I'm very much enjoying IL2. I enjoy it so much that I bought all of the Battle series, Most of the expansion planes except for stuff like the glider. I've bought CLOD and the expansion and I'm waiting for that one to release the B17s and 190s and the VR that's under beta test.
The thing I've noticed about IL2 is that almost every time I log on there's new players or returning players, something that I don't recall seeing on a daily basis in AH for a long time. I do hope that changes. It's good to see some old timers coming back so maybe it's the start of something new.
Another thing that I noticed was there were 2 of us (109s) approaching a spit9 who was a decent pilot I got there first and engaged so the other 109 broke off and let us fight. I I was in an F2 and it was a white knuckled fight which I managed to win in the end. Since we had fought down to the deck he was close to me and quite a bit above when he airstarted. He could have used his alt to dive on me and try to extract his revenge but instead he said "GF" and engaged the other pilot who had been watching. I stayed out of the fight and let them go at it. I really enjoy playing like this and not having to worry about the 500 mph picking pony. Granted this is not the normal scenario type server like combat box. On the other hand I have fun on those kind of servers too. Nothing like coming up on a gaggle of planes all shooting at each other and trying to figure out who is friendly and enemy as there is no killshooter.
Just my 1 cent that used to be 2 cents due to inflation.
I don't like the look of iL2.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on April 08, 2024, 05:33:17 AM
AH was hard after Warbirds, IL-2 after AH. DCS I may some day try but probably need to upgrade my mill before it. Recommended system requirements are met but mobo and CPU are from 2014, memory DDR3, so I doubt it would rotate properly.
IMHO, line between game and simulator goes in controls. If it can be run with mouse and keyboard, it is on gamish side. Like in IL-2, some servers need joystick, some not. So, it's bit both.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 08, 2024, 08:21:07 AM
That's a good write up. Even thought I know IL2 is easymode compared to DCS it's far more complex then AH3 and not just the engine management. Trimming the aircraft based on the speed is very important for example.
I Trim more in DCS than I do in IL-2, it's a constant battle. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's even more complex than IL2. I spend as much time adjusting trim as I do gawking at the slip indicator & adjusting rudder(109/190s). I HATE that the K4's Rudder Trim is mostly your left foot & it's constant. It's why I wish for (and am flabbergasted that nobody has done any) other 109 models... that freekin TORQUE! The other Germybirds don't have rudder/aileron trim(unless there's something I don't know) either, but it's not near as bad an issue in flight.
I'm way past engine management at this point. Once you get the basic pressure/rpms & cooler/flap stuff down, it's not a big deal. I made kneeboard cards with all the basic info needed for each Warbird... but, I still tend to keep the appropriate Guide from Chuck open on my other monitor, just in case. It's still easy to find me looping over a field over and over trying to get a bomb to let the hell go. And, there's subtle differences regarding controls, for example, you have to map the gun-safety in the 109 and A8, but not the D9 (its there, but it's auto), and that can be a high source of irritation when you fly all 3 a lot.
Darkwood was spot on in his assessment about DCS, IL2 can give you eye strain. Each have pros & cons, and I can't say I prefer one over the other. I flip-flop through phases lasting about 6mo between the two. IL2 is fun as hell for making films, but their Mission Editor is a major PITA. DCS is good for that too, and their Mission Editor is super easy, but making a vid ~at all~ of Multiplayer is frightfully difficult. I don't know the major DCS Youtubers do it (or even if they do now that I think about it), because getting a mission-track to retain all the happenings is (for me) down to pure luck-of-the-draw. It used to work fine. Then it didn't. Then they broke it. Then they fixed it. Then they broke it. Tricker has a method that worked for awhile a few years ago... now? Not so much. SP works fine though.
Both are equally great & painful on any given day. AH was King for a good long time... and considering whos, hows & whys, it will always be the best there ever was as a whole. No offense to Air Warrior, it was awesome too, but for bigly different reasons.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 08, 2024, 08:40:57 AM
If you ever flown single engine light planes you know you must trim for every flight configuration change, unless you want to fight the controls. The more basic models have a manual trim. Fancier have powered trim.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 08, 2024, 08:45:38 AM
Mission Editor is super easy, but making a vid ~at all~ of Multiplayer is frightfully difficult. I don't know the major DCS Youtubers do it (or even if they do now that I think about it), because getting a mission-track to retain all the happenings is (for me) down to pure luck-of-the-draw. It used to work fine. Then it didn't. Then they broke it. Then they fixed it. Then they broke it. Tricker has a method that worked for awhile a few years ago... now? Not so much. SP works fine though.
Supposedly one of the last patches has improved the mission-track recording. I generally record live so can't confirm this. I did use some excerpts from a 30 minute multiplayer mission track recently and they remained accurate.
Something I learned the hard way a while back. If you are making an instructional video and enable the active pause you are still burning fuel at whatever rate your throttle is set for. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 08, 2024, 09:41:27 AM
AH was hard after Warbirds, IL-2 after AH. DCS I may some day try but probably need to upgrade my mill before it. Recommended system requirements are met but mobo and CPU are from 2014, memory DDR3, so I doubt it would rotate properly.
IMHO, line between game and simulator goes in controls. If it can be run with mouse and keyboard, it is on gamish side. Like in IL-2, some servers need joystick, some not. So, it's bit both.
DCS is a resource hog. No doubt about it.
Have you tried since they got multi-threading smoothed out? That seems to have been a big help for some with marginal systems. Vulkan is supposed to help further someday.
I have no doubt that Hitech could add this extra levels of complexity and fidelity. I think the choice is intentional and not necessarily wrong. Here is a graphic of how I see the market (IMHO):
I think the position HTC chose on the fidelity spectrum is a nice compromise for a large chuck of the potential market. There are lot of players that would be a sweet-spot for.
There are always going to be more pure casual players on the game end. Way less on the fetish fidelity end. However there is also the variable of what percentage of the potential is being captured.
WT has a large potential as very approachable by a wide range of casual gamers. And it captures near 100% of that larger market. So yeah, they are just printing money.
DCS has a much smaller potential market that want the level of simulation pain. ;) But they capture 100% of it. SO they are making money.
I think IL2 would do better if they weren't so Russian\Eastern Front oriented.
I think the AH fidelity sweet-spot has a large potential market, but HTC is capturing very little of the potential. IMHO monetization model, graphics and to some extend lack of SP hold it back.
Now from this is might seem I'm suggesting that IL2 makes more money than DCS, but there is another curve not shown here and that is revenue from military trainer contracts. WT, AH, and IL2 have nothing there and I suspect it is a large portion of DCS' revenue. So I think DCS overall makes more than IL2, but nobody makes more than The Snail™. And everyone makes more than AH. ;)
All of this is just my opinion of course and I could be full of it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 08, 2024, 10:21:21 AM
AH was hard after Warbirds, IL-2 after AH. DCS I may some day try but probably need to upgrade my mill before it. Recommended system requirements are met but mobo and CPU are from 2014, memory DDR3, so I doubt it would rotate properly.
IMHO, line between game and simulator goes in controls. If it can be run with mouse and keyboard, it is on gamish side. Like in IL-2, some servers need joystick, some not. So, it's bit both.
I agree. Some of the IL2 servers have no icons, and you have to navigate without an icon on the map while others have both. I like the ones with icons and airstarts if I only have a limited amount of time and want to get into a fight quick. On those servers the time from clicking start to being in a fight is usually less then 5 minutes. On the other hand the more "scenario" based servers you can fly to a target and back without an enemy ever seeing you. (if you get lucky) or you can get bounced by 10 enemy planes you never saw coming.
There was a funny one yesterday when I was playing on combat box. There was a guy yelling on country for help because 4 110s were chasing him and he'd taken engine damage on a bombing run and wasn't sure if he could outrun them. lol!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 08, 2024, 10:39:09 AM
As in the graphics? Can you be more specific? I haven't spent much time in DCS so I don't really understand what you mean.
For me, it's the ever present haze-look, even when it's sunny, at Noon. You can adjust it to a point, but it's always there. Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier... I wouldn't consider IL2 "easy mode" at all.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 08, 2024, 10:52:16 AM
Have you tried since they got multi-threading smoothed out? That seems to have been a big help for some with marginal systems. Vulkan is supposed to help further someday.
I have no doubt that Hitech could add this extra levels of complexity and fidelity. I think the choice is intentional and not necessarily wrong. Here is a graphic of how I see the market (IMHO):
I think the position HTC chose on the fidelity spectrum is a nice compromise for a large chuck of the potential market. There are lot of players that would be a sweet-spot for.
There are always going to be more pure casual players on the game end. Way less on the fetish fidelity end. However there is also the variable of what percentage of the potential is being captured.
WT has a large potential as very approachable by a wide range of casual gamers. And it captures near 100% of that larger market. So yeah, they are just printing money.
DCS has a much smaller potential market that want the level of simulation pain. ;) But they capture 100% of it. SO they are making money.
I think IL2 would do better if they weren't so Russian\Eastern Front oriented.
I think the AH fidelity sweet-spot has a large potential market, but HTC is capturing very little of the potential. IMHO monetization model, graphics and to some extend lack of SP hold it back.
Now from this is might seem I'm suggesting that IL2 makes more money than DCS, but there is another curve not shown here and that is revenue from military trainer contracts. WT, AH, and IL2 have nothing there and I suspect it is a large portion of DCS' revenue. So I think DCS overall makes more than IL2, but nobody makes more than The Snail™. And everyone makes more than AH. ;)
All of this is just my opinion of course and I could be full of it.
Makes sense. I think you're right that IL2 and AH3 could both grab a bunch more of the market share but they both have their challenges. I think a couple of the setbacks for IL2 are it's clumsy UI and that they seem to spend a bunch of time and effort on stuff that is not readily obvious. I mean that if the engine in my plane takes a hit and the performance is reduced the result is the same as them programming that the bullet hit the 5th spark plug on the engine or knocked the drive belt off the supercharger. I wish they would spend that effort on stuff that everyone sees like the UI. (there is no reason I should have to completely exit the game and wait for it to reload to switch user accounts from the login screen)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 08, 2024, 10:54:43 AM
For me, it's the ever present haze-look, even when it's sunny, at Noon. You can adjust it to a point, but it's always there. Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier... I wouldn't consider IL2 "easy mode" at all.
Right. It reminds me of when I used to live by the ocean the almost ever present marine layer. I have noticed it now that you mention it.
I opened my canopy the other day and got water on my goggles. That was an interesting experience. Not sure if it was from my damaged engine or what.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 08, 2024, 11:10:05 AM
As in the graphics? Can you be more specific? I haven't spent much time in DCS so I don't really understand what you mean.
Everything about it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 08, 2024, 11:27:51 AM
Two revisions of the Pimax Crystal may be released. The "Core" version is slated for release this quarter and could be THE replacement for G2 as the "best bang for the buck" in VR.
Started to watch that earlier but it's a long video. You watch it? Summarize?
It's a wide ranging discussion.
About how the Falcon 4 DC came about. What his design goals and choices were and why. What he think he got right\wrong. And then ranging into discussion of game design philosophies in general. The trade-offs between realism\gamey fun. Current market trends, etc.
Open the video on the video, it will have the topics broken out nicely in marked chapters titled that you can jump around to.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 09, 2024, 03:09:01 PM
Interestingly, Wild Bill might be one of his future interviewees about early days of Microprose.
I've tried to interest him in interviewing Hitech as one of the key pioneers of Online Combat Games and the history there. I'm not sure he realized that HT built both Warbirds and AH, and Enigma was a big WW2OL fan and I'm not sure he realized all those guys cut their teeth working for HT on Warbirds. So HT was kinda at the nexus of a lot of online MMO combat sims birth, so he sounded kinda interested at the time. He asked for HT's contact info. Not sure if he ever got into contact yet. This one apparently took a while to get lined up so who knows.
But apparently Animl thinks I did that to try and destroy Aces High so maybe it's better he doesn't do that interview. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 09, 2024, 08:01:28 PM
Interestingly, Wild Bill might be one of his future interviewees about early days of Microprose.
I've tried to interest him in interviewing Hitech as one of the key pioneers of Online Combat Games and the history there. I'm not sure he realized that HT built both Warbirds and AH, and Enigma was a big WW2OL fan and I'm not sure he realized all those guys cut their teeth working for HT on Warbirds. So HT was kinda at the nexus of a lot of online MMO combat sims birth, so he sounded kinda interested at the time. He asked for HT's contact info. Not sure if he ever got into contact yet. This one apparently took a while to get lined up so who knows.
But apparently Animl thinks I did that to try and destroy Aces High so maybe it's better he doesn't do that interview. :rolleyes:
It would do wonders for AH... especiallyi if accompanied by an in-depth look at Hitech's background in the industry. You ought to see if Enigma might sponsor a look at AH with a specific date/time for a joint mission in AH like he did with 1946. He went to a lot of trouble providing info on setting 1946 up for those who didn't know (I didn't fly his event(s) but it's how I learned about a lot of the addon/mod stuff). There's potential there, considering the Arena numbers that AH can handle makes all the competition pale in comparison. Just don't tell NOBODY about channel 200.... or the forums here. There's also plenty of potential for casual visitors to get run off posthaste.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 10, 2024, 10:11:55 AM
It would do wonders for AH... especiallyi if accompanied by an in-depth look at Hitech's background in the industry. You ought to see if Enigma might sponsor a look at AH with a specific date/time for a joint mission in AH like he did with 1946. He went to a lot of trouble providing info on setting 1946 up for those who didn't know (I didn't fly his event(s) but it's how I learned about a lot of the addon/mod stuff). There's potential there, considering the Arena numbers that AH can handle makes all the competition pale in comparison. Just don't tell NOBODY about channel 200.... or the forums here. There's also plenty of potential for casual visitors to get run off posthaste.
He has 25k subscribers and that video got almost 8k views in the first day. It would be great exposure for HT. And I would find the discussion very interesting myself. I told him to have him on separate from Wild Bill. He'll get better stories that way. ;)
Enigma was a big WWIIOL fan and still plays IL2 GB and 1946.
He had apparently tried AH at some point but didn't seem to click with him. I've tried to find out more about why it didn't. He doesn't seem to mind the idea of subscription. Only other guess is the 3-sided chess piece war. I can see him wanting AvA like WWIIOL and IL2.
I suggested he take a look at AHIII and give it a review but he said he doesn't have time to install another game. OK. I get it. I was looking at 1946 but told the forum guy I was conversing with I wasn't going to bother with the patches. Since I wasn't planning to play it, only wanted to examine it, I get his position. Only so many hours available.
But Online Combat Sims, their comparative designs, and their history are his interest so I didn't want to push it and hope he at least does the interview someday.
It would be a crime against humanity to let Wild Bill define the narrative of those early days. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 10, 2024, 02:29:35 PM
Agreed! Wild Bill ruined what HiTech had created in Warbirds. His ego alone would turn a lot of players away from online WWII games.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 10, 2024, 09:02:47 PM
Warbirds was still a thing too... last I checked. Yep, Steam too!... even has 6 whole people in it right now.
Oooofffff.
Warbirds was a beast in its day. Sad to see it end up that way.
Makes me feel old.
Never look back. I made the mistake of Google street viewing the neighborhoods I grew up in. It was freakin Leave it to Beaver back then. Now it looks like Beirut.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 11:00:44 AM
There was a time when people were willing to pay $6/hr or more to play Air Warrior. I did. Times change.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 11:03:14 AM
Try some nice relaxing air refueling.
ommmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 11, 2024, 11:14:28 AM
I paid $6/hr for Genie in '90-'91. It probably came down in price after that. Some played on Compuserve which was even more.
It could have been $6. I don't recall. I think that was about the same time I started. I started right as the "full realism" arena came on-line (whenever that was)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 11, 2024, 12:26:41 PM
Does war thunder have joystick throttle and pedal use ? Button selection ?
Yes, you can configure it any way you like. Though I can't tell how good it is working in arcade vs realistic vs sim mode, because I exclusively drive vehicles only in WT.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 11, 2024, 01:05:48 PM
Yes, you can configure it any way you like. Though I can't tell how good it is working in arcade vs realistic vs sim mode, because I exclusively drive vehicles only in WT.
Am I being accurate in describing their underlying monetization model as a form of subscription? I only played with it for a couple of hours. I know they have micro-transaction as well, but they do have a "subscription" in there somewhere right?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 03:41:37 PM
Demographics in the poll is interesting.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on April 11, 2024, 03:55:07 PM
Am I being accurate in describing their underlying monetization model as a form of subscription? I only played with it for a couple of hours. I know they have micro-transaction as well, but they do have a "subscription" in there somewhere right?
The premium account is similar, but it's not a recurring subscription, you buy 20/60/180 days at a time.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 04:13:05 PM
One thing in Spudknocker's survey that is far from surprising but very important is the role youtube plays in gamer awareness.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 11, 2024, 04:29:07 PM
The premium account is similar, but it's not a recurring subscription, you buy 20/60/180 days at a time.
Ahh. Gotcha. Thanks. Want to describe it properly.
I had at one time suggested being able to buy blocks of hours in AH (still have all-you-can-eat subscription but have it as an alternative).
There are some folks who might only want to play only very occasionally. Or just an event. The event may span a month cross-over and they don't want to pay for two full months. They can open and close the account but they have to go beg for their handle each time?
Blocks of hours might be something a parent can gift a child without committing to an ongoing subscription. Might be something to help people who don't feel they would play often enough for an ongoing subscription to convince themselves can be justified. Does it really make sense mathematically? Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of time consumer purchasing choices have large components of psychology involved and not just math. That's why things are sold for $14.95 instead of just saying $15. ;)
Bottomline, if what you have been doing for 20 years has stopped working, maybe it's time for some creativity and flexibility in your approach.
I love to fish. If you go to your favorite spot and try your favorite lure and can't get a bite, you can either stubbornly stand there and keep pounding the same lure in the same spot for hours and go home empty handed, or you can try moving to a new spot, try a different lure, try different depth, try a different presentation, try and find another pattern that will produce and go home with your limit.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 11, 2024, 04:49:28 PM
The premium account is similar, but it's not a recurring subscription, you buy 20/60/180 days at a time.
So actually that is interesting.
I stand corrected then.
Of the remaining top combat flightsims, WT, DCS, IL2, AH, AH is the last one attempting an old school monthly subscription model?
I wonder why? More of that consumer purchasing psychology stuff?
I'm assuming we aren't worrying about including WWIIOnline or WB any more as one of the "top" list.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 04:54:53 PM
I'm sure the current subscription model for AH is profitable. What happens if it goes free to play without increasing the player base and garnering those pay to win perks some of the others use? Can you go back or is it over?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 11, 2024, 05:34:53 PM
I love to fish. If you go to your favorite spot and try your favorite lure and can't get a bite, you can either stubbornly stand there and keep pounding the same lure in the same spot for hours and go home empty handed, or you can try moving to a new spot, try a different lure, try different depth, try a different presentation, try and find another pattern that will produce and go home with your limit.
What? I always stay at the same spot. Moving around is too much work, plus, I figure if I move the fish will come to the spot where I am and I'll miss them!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 11, 2024, 05:38:33 PM
I had no idea the planes in WT could cost $50! wow
But that's just a few premium planes and tanks. And you can do perfectly fine without them. For the record, after all these years I only 'own' 3 premium tanks, of which the most expensive did cost me 6.6€
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 12, 2024, 12:27:02 PM
But that's just a few premium planes and tanks. And you can do perfectly fine without them. For the record, after all these years I only 'own' 3 premium tanks, of which the most expensive did cost me 6.6€
Sounds like me in IL2. I buy the whole theater for $19 and all the add on planes when they're $2.99.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on April 12, 2024, 02:30:50 PM
Sounds like me in IL2. I buy the whole theater for $19 and all the add on planes when they're $2.99.
My first purchases were Bodenplatte and Sturm for about half price, kind of sales. Then, when there were those real sales, I took Kuban and Tank Crew and premium planes I snatched Fw190 D-9 and Hs129 B-2. Now I have gadgets and contraptions for every server and map but mostly I'm driving around with big angry German cats Tiger and Panther.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 12, 2024, 03:01:25 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 12, 2024, 09:17:05 PM
One area where sim vs game becomes apparent is in the gunnery. At least for me. Maybe it's because I played AH a lot for a few years, maybe not, but I can hit a turning target at 800 yards consistently in AH. I cannot do that in DCS. This reminds of a story my brother told me when he was flying the Apache at a joint Army/Air Force exercise at the Nellis ranges. At the time the Air Force was trying to give the A-10 to the Army. Anyhow the Apaches were suppressing the target area with fire as F-16s were coming in to hit the target. The Apaches stopped shooting when the F-16s got in close. The Vipers told them, don't stop shooting, it's a big sky.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 13, 2024, 08:46:31 AM
Looking at that reminds me, I was watching a vid on the P-47, I was just struck by how small the pilots looked compared to those engines. Jeez. Those things were beasts.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 13, 2024, 12:24:17 PM
More than the gunnery, the flight model is what you notice first.
I flew the DCS F-14 quite a bit. I was wondering while watching Top Gun 2 how close the startup of that old bird would be. Surprisingly they matched perfectly. You want to challenge your piloting skills? Try air refueling in that beast.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 13, 2024, 06:01:21 PM
I flew the DCS F-14 quite a bit. I was wondering while watching Top Gun 2 how close the startup of that old bird would be. Surprisingly they matched perfectly. You want to challenge your piloting skills? Try air refueling in that beast.
I am still trying to land the 190-A8 without crashing it first
LMAO :bolt:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 13, 2024, 07:38:56 PM
One: A retractable sunroof for the 190 in order for one to stick his head up in order to see over the nose of this plane? Same for the Corsair while we are white-boarding this. Two: Perhaps we chop down any and all trees within 200 yds of the end of the runway?
Good video as always, mr. Iron.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 13, 2024, 08:13:26 PM
Thanks. I vote for longer runways too. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: xanax on April 13, 2024, 08:16:05 PM
Fascinating vid on the Corsair. I'd always heard of the torque issues on this craft. I always wondered if if P&W had perhaps shortened the connecting rod length and threw some pop-up on the piston heads of these engines to alleviate torque and maintain HP? Or maybe try some counter rotation?
(https://i.ibb.co/28r76mz/contra.webp)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 13, 2024, 08:39:21 PM
I typically keep it around 200kph for landing, full flaps. And, I don't even try anything other than 3pt landings.... these birds are just stupid-sensitive.
Edit: I looked at Chuck's chart and landing speed ranges from 159kph to 180kph depending on weight.
Also, a thing you guys might not be aware of. The Engine settings chart says (below 3300m) you can only run 1.4 ATA for 3min... which is not entirely accurate. You actually can run it there for a very long time without getting anywhere near 130deg (max), even with the Rad shutters closed. I'd noticed over time that even though I actively managed ATA & Rad Shutters, the temp gauge never budged. Just awhile ago, I took off from Goulet, climbed to 3300m and flew to St Lo with Rad shut, 1.4/2700 all the way and the Oil Temp barely moved.
Another thing... I did some testing and found you can dive that sucker at a VERY steep angle from above 20k and be accurate with bombs. You gotta keep the throttle off be tender with your stick, but trimmed right it'll pretty much pull itself out of the dive. I tried it with the Jug40 & Pony, and they both broke. NOW ya know how to escape those prowling Ponies :)
About the engine temp thing, there were arguments a couple years ago over whether or not it was a bad FM, or by the time the A8 came along the 801D-2 was that good (which included banter about the FM being "adjustable" for the forecasted F-8 model... WHICH btw, Bignewy said not long ago was still on the books.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 14, 2024, 09:07:22 AM
I tried it again on a longer runway, slower and with flaps. Still bounced on me but I got it stopped on the runway.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Eagler on April 14, 2024, 11:31:07 AM
So in short ah is about fighting and the other realistic sims are more about trying to fly and land your plane properly...
I will take fighting please :airplane:
Eagler
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 14, 2024, 11:59:27 AM
AH is a flying combat game and a good one. A sim, not so much. Don't imagine your AH skillz would translate to the real world in any sense but the abstract.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 14, 2024, 02:08:37 PM
So in short ah is about fighting and the other realistic sims are more about trying to fly and land your plane properly...
I will take fighting please :airplane:
Eagler
Nah... the other ones are more about trying to take-off, and fly, and manage your aircraft, and fight, and THEN land. All created with an objective of replicating as realistic as possible a simulation of Combat Flight aircraft/conditions from a perspective stretching from circa 1914 through some time around the 80s/90s. They're a more complex and require vastly more attention to detail all with significantly steep(er) learning curve.... give or take depending on which your talking about. Most definitely less prone to Gamey McGamer & associated shenanigans.
Each have their place and nuances. AH is still better for quickie flights, fights, & strategy regarding the big war. That might change if either of the more modern ones ever decide to straighten out their respective comms issues, one in particular.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 14, 2024, 09:58:07 PM
So in short ah is about fighting and the other realistic sims are more about trying to fly and land your plane properly...
I will take fighting please :airplane:
Eagler
It's a different animal. You show up to a furball with planes shooting everywhere. The first thing you need to do is to try to figure out who's the bad guys so you're shooting the right guy. On most servers there's no icons to be able to tell you who's who and no AWACS to show you that you're about to get bounced.
Many fly low in IL2 because you are harder to see against the ground then silhouetted against the sky and if you go really high the contrails will point you out to everyone. This will get planes higher then you vectored to your location. People don't pound their chest so much as they know there's a good chance they might get bounced their next sortie.
It has plenty of fighting but it also has many more variables and stuff that can go wrong. There's more things to keep in mind other then coolant and water temps. The aileron flutter is real and you can see it starting to happen if you look at your wings. If you dive full throttle and full prop rpm you will damage your engine at the minimum. Just a lot more complexity. If you prefer a first person shooter game with the simplicity of Doom, you probably wouldn't like it. If you're looking to experience things from a more historical perspective, you may enjoy it.
To each his own. There is no "right" answer
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on April 14, 2024, 11:16:34 PM
It's a different animal. You show up to a furball with planes shooting everywhere. The first thing you need to do is to try to figure out who's the bad guys so you're shooting the right guy. On most servers there's no icons to be able to tell you who's who and no AWACS to show you that you're about to get bounced.
Many fly low in IL2 because you are harder to see against the ground then silhouetted against the sky and if you go really high the contrails will point you out to everyone. This will get planes higher then you vectored to your location. People don't pound their chest so much as they know there's a good chance they might get bounced their next sortie.
It has plenty of fighting but it also has many more variables and stuff that can go wrong. There's more things to keep in mind other then coolant and water temps. The aileron flutter is real and you can see it starting to happen if you look at your wings. If you dive full throttle and full prop rpm you will damage your engine at the minimum. Just a lot more complexity. If you prefer a first person shooter game with the simplicity of Doom, you probably wouldn't like it. If you're looking to experience things from a more historical perspective, you may enjoy it.
To each his own. There is no "right" answer
Do any of these servers have a scores/stats page? kills, deaths, damage done per player? Id be very interested in that kind of data.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 15, 2024, 01:24:48 AM
Do any of these servers have a scores/stats page? kills, deaths, damage done per player? Id be very interested in that kind of data.
Combatbox server breaks it down to the detail of how many HE or AP rounds hit a plane. They have pilot, ironman (pilots who haven't been killed) and tankman rankings.
https://combatbox.net/en/pilots/?tour=94
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 15, 2024, 07:56:41 PM
Do any of these servers have a scores/stats page? kills, deaths, damage done per player? Id be very interested in that kind of data.
Some of the DCS servers have associated Websites and such. I wouldn't know, score never meant beans to me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on April 15, 2024, 09:28:27 PM
Its not so much scores Im looking at. Hit % would be good as many say hitting in these other games is much harder. K/D and K/s is others Id like to see. Time per sortie. Do you have to fly an hour to engage?
I look for action. I CAN fly for ever, but why should I? Its why I cant stand scenarios. If I dont have action in 10 minutes Ive wasted my time.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 15, 2024, 10:19:37 PM
In IL2 it depends on the server. There's lots of variables.
There are dogfight and normal servers (with icons) with air starts that during prime time you will most likely be in a fight within a minute or two tops.
There are scenario type servers where you may be chasing ghosts that are blowing up your airfields and other targets. Some of the attack guys on these servers are very good at evading, flying under the radar (if you have radar in the area) and such.
The servers are all different. Some you have to request a callsign and clearance to taxi from tower or the server will scold you. You also request clearance to land and can declare and emergency to put all the traffic on hold. Other servers you can be in visual distance of the enemy when you air spawn.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 16, 2024, 03:47:17 AM
If I dont have action in 10 minutes Ive wasted my time.
On DCS "Wolfpack" (US2, I think), I would guess it's between 5-10min from Carpiquet (where most Axis fly from) to St Pierre du Mont, a contested field where a lot of the action is. Azeville to du Mont is about the same distance where Allies typically fly from.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 16, 2024, 07:43:44 AM
Things are looking up for VR in flight sims. Might even see a Reverb G2 replacement in less than two months.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 16, 2024, 10:34:04 AM
Didn't get many views on my AH video. I guess content matters more than key words. I tried.
https://ibb.co/ch44xNP
(https://ibb.co/ch44xNP)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 16, 2024, 11:08:56 AM
It looks like the AH3 video is joystick setup. Very exciting. Am I missing something? lolz
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 16, 2024, 11:11:17 AM
It was a test to see if adding key/tag words like DCS would garner more views. It didn't. It'll be deleted. I've deleted more videos than I've added (well, guess that's not really possible) and I've added a lot. Most are/were made to help someone specifically with something.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: hazmatt on April 16, 2024, 11:20:08 AM
It was a test to see if adding key/tag words like DCS would garner more views. It didn't. It'll be deleted. I've deleted more videos than I've added and I've added a lot. Most are/were made to help someone specifically with something.
That makes sense. I think it would be useful for a new player. I'm not sure it's exciting enough to get a bunch of views if someone is not looking for it specifically.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 16, 2024, 11:31:58 AM
If an AHer were so inclined they might make a video comparing the strengths of AH to other "flight sims". It would get views. Probably more so if it started with the more popular games and snuck AH into the mix. Youtube views could add subscribers.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on April 16, 2024, 11:53:08 AM
If an AHer were so inclined they might make a video comparing the strengths of AH to other "flight sims". It would get views. Probably more so if it started with the more popular games and snuck AH into the mix. Youtube views could add subscribers.
I actually like this idea a LOT!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 16, 2024, 04:53:28 PM
It was a test to see if adding key/tag words like DCS would garner more views. It didn't. It'll be deleted. I've deleted more videos than I've added (well, guess that's not really possible) and I've added a lot. Most are/were made to help someone specifically with something.
Did you put the hashtag in front of it?
#DCS
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 16, 2024, 06:58:46 PM
A few new comments on my FW-190A8 disaster and it jumped up to 745 views. Failure is popular. :D
Subscriptions, thumbs up, comments, timely reply to comments, interaction push your vid up higher in the return ranking for search results as more potentially interesting by the algo.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 17, 2024, 09:55:17 AM
Didn't occur to me that youtube used a visibility algorithm (like the other various forums) but of course they do. No interest in monetizing my "channel" though along with all the work required to make professionalish videos. Just enjoy sharing my failures and successes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on April 17, 2024, 01:25:01 PM
If an AHer were so inclined they might make a video comparing the strengths of AH to other "flight sims". It would get views. Probably more so if it started with the more popular games and snuck AH into the mix. Youtube views could add subscribers.
I have/had that video, now on a fried PC from a lightning surge. If I get it back, you will see this video. It doesn't have to compare or mention ANY game, you know right away, your game "won't do this". All it has to be a a AH scenario.
Before I deleted my videos our numbers were coming up. They had a total of 1000+ views. I now have over 300 subscribers. I didn't mention ANY other game. My content automatically paired up with DCS and IL-2 videos.
What sucks is when I draw return players in you guys suck them out the back door. SO I quit providing you with return players to skim. When you guys shut up I'll crank it back up again. A sad attempt to starv you out of this nonsense.
Don't tell me how much you care about AH when you can't wait to get them into DCS instead. Trick wording like "Choices" means,... choose our game instead. I've had enough experience in marketing to know when I see amateur marking using common catch phrases like bad informercials.
As long as this thread stays alive, I will do my best not to draw players in for you to skim. I will chew my own leg off to get out of a trap.
I've got DipTrips nailed down to the point I can predict where and when he's going to rear his ugly head. He's now 100% predictable to me. When you can predict what people will do, you have them nailed solid. Good thing I don't have the power anymore, I would permaban him for life, and I'd fire anyone who permitted it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 17, 2024, 01:27:04 PM
Videos or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 17, 2024, 01:35:01 PM
I've got DipTrips nailed down to the point I can predict where and when he's going to rear his ugly head. He's now 100% predictable to me. When you can predict what people will do, you have them nailed solid. Good thing I don't have the power anymore, I would permaban him for life, and I'd fire anyone who permitted it.
Okay, you've got my interest now. When did you have the power to "permaban" anyone? I'm genuinely curious here.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on April 17, 2024, 02:31:52 PM
Okay, you've got my interest now. When did you have the power to "permaban" anyone? I'm genuinely curious here.
Oh, And get him to tell us what a "Skimmer" is
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 17, 2024, 04:20:12 PM
When I was a kid, and we're talking a seriously long time ago, my mother would drink skim milk. I learned they call it that because they scoop (skim) off the fat from the surface. I guess it floats. Why would anyone complain about skimming off a few players from a fat game? If that were even possible, or someone wanted to.
I'm lactose intolerant. Milk makes me nauseous and always has.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on April 17, 2024, 05:45:45 PM
I have/had that video, now on a fried PC from a lightning surge. If I get it back, you will see this video. It doesn't have to compare or mention ANY game, you know right away, your game "won't do this". All it has to be a a AH scenario.
Before I deleted my videos our numbers were coming up. They had a total of 1000+ views. I now have over 300 subscribers. I didn't mention ANY other game. My content automatically paired up with DCS and IL-2 videos.
What sucks is when I draw return players in you guys suck them out the back door. SO I quit providing you with return players to skim. When you guys shut up I'll crank it back up again. A sad attempt to starv you out of this nonsense.
Don't tell me how much you care about AH when you can't wait to get them into DCS instead. Trick wording like "Choices" means,... choose our game instead. I've had enough experience in marketing to know when I see amateur marking using common catch phrases like bad informercials.
As long as this thread stays alive, I will do my best not to draw players in for you to skim. I will chew my own leg off to get out of a trap.
I've got DipTrips nailed down to the point I can predict where and when he's going to rear his ugly head. He's now 100% predictable to me. When you can predict what people will do, you have them nailed solid. Good thing I don't have the power anymore, I would permaban him for life, and I'd fire anyone who permitted it.
This dude does realize that " Dale " plays DCS right?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 17, 2024, 08:35:26 PM
I have/had that video, now on a fried PC from a lightning surge. If I get it back, you will see this video. It doesn't have to compare or mention ANY game, you know right away, your game "won't do this". All it has to be a a AH scenario.
Before I deleted my videos our numbers were coming up. They had a total of 1000+ views. I now have over 300 subscribers. I didn't mention ANY other game. My content automatically paired up with DCS and IL-2 videos.
What sucks is when I draw return players in you guys suck them out the back door. SO I quit providing you with return players to skim. When you guys shut up I'll crank it back up again. A sad attempt to starv you out of this nonsense.
Don't tell me how much you care about AH when you can't wait to get them into DCS instead. Trick wording like "Choices" means,... choose our game instead. I've had enough experience in marketing to know when I see amateur marking using common catch phrases like bad informercials.
As long as this thread stays alive, I will do my best not to draw players in for you to skim. I will chew my own leg off to get out of a trap.
I've got DipTrips nailed down to the point I can predict where and when he's going to rear his ugly head. He's now 100% predictable to me. When you can predict what people will do, you have them nailed solid. Good thing I don't have the power anymore, I would permaban him for life, and I'd fire anyone who permitted it.
Just say no to drugs mmmmkay
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 18, 2024, 07:45:57 PM
Why would i want to read about you in your sig line? lil projection there? Or would you like me to post links to those threads you acted like just like your "sig line"? Where you followed me and badgered me for 6 mos? I bet you hate your bathroom mirror.
You read it, no reply required.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 21, 2024, 12:57:58 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on April 21, 2024, 12:59:33 PM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 21, 2024, 01:00:26 PM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 21, 2024, 01:19:15 PM
Polychop got a lot of flak for their Gazelle for a long time but everyone seems to be happy with it now. I own the module and it seems fine to me. I've ridden in a couple of military choppers but never behind the stick so what do I know.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 21, 2024, 01:28:28 PM
Polychop got a lot of flak for their Gazelle for a long time but everyone seems to be happy with it now. I own the module and it seems fine to me. I've ridden in a couple of military choppers but never behind the stick so what do I know.
Gaz benefitted from their work on the Kiowa. AS FM improvements were made they rolled them out to the Gaz to smoke test. Most think the Gaz is pretty good now. Yes, it's going to fly twitchier than a fully loaded Apache. It weighs a lot less too. ;)
My hopes are the Kiowa has a much smoother launch than the Gaz had.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 21, 2024, 02:49:25 PM
I'm sure you remember my bro mentioning he flew them as an Army Scout though probably an earlier model than what is about to be released. He mentioned today that DCS is about as good as any pro simulator he's flown.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 21, 2024, 02:55:38 PM
I'm sure you remember my bro mentioning he flew them as an Army Scout though probably an earlier model than what is about to be released. He mentioned today that DCS is about as good as any pro simulator he's flown.
I saw in another video a guy saying in the mission editor you will be able to remove certain capabilities to make it more like earlier models. It'd be interesting to see if it can get whittled down closer to what he remembers.
Looks like a simpler fun ride. Like an air combat version of a go-cart. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 22, 2024, 09:15:46 AM
I bought the Strike Eagle but have spent maybe 20 minutes in it. I also preordered the Phantom. I'm learning the F-18 systems which seem to be a lot more complicated than the F-16 systems. So plenty to keep me busy for a long time. Of course that hasn't stopped me buying a shiny new module in the past.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 22, 2024, 09:33:24 AM
I bought the Strike Eagle but have spent maybe 20 minutes in it. I also preordered the Phantom. I'm learning the F-18 systems which seem to be a lot more complicated than the F-16 systems. So plenty to keep me busy for a long time. Of course that hasn't stopped me buying a shiny new module in the past.
Yeah I might skip the F-4 for a while. It's not the cost, it's the work load. I still have other airframes I am learning\enjoying. I need to catch-up on what I got like the Redfor helo's I've hardly touched.
But Kiowa will be a near day 1 purchase. Chinook probably too. But I don't pre-order things anymore and want at least some initial reviews.
My next fixed wing would probably be the Corsair with Essex carrier. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on April 22, 2024, 11:12:36 AM
Yeah I might skip the F-4 for a while. It's not the cost, it's the work load. I still have other airframes I am learning\enjoying. I need to catch-up on what I got like the Redfor helo's I've hardly touched.
But Kiowa will be a near day 1 purchase. Chinook probably too. But I don't pre-order things anymore and want at least some initial reviews.
My next fixed wing would probably be the Corsair with Essex carrier. :D
Good morning grasshopper.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 22, 2024, 02:18:57 PM
These guys had some fun.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on April 22, 2024, 05:07:48 PM
Both are stupid to draw this out in public. OTOH, players who spend should know this. Not easy to keep secretes in a gaming world
Eagle Dynamics and RAZBAM clash in public statements https://stormbirds.blog/2024/04/04/eagle-dynamics-and-razbam-clash-in-public-statements/comment-page-1/
I warned yall the math doesn't work. They knew I was right, I had to be made to look stupit, even calling me a "Sexual Predator", defacing me to my friends. They wanted the hook in before ya found out. Anyone in tune with ED/DCS knew this while they were trying to sell it to you. This problem started 9 mos ago. How old is this thread? Your buddies? Gonna tell me Mr. Informed Trips didn't know this?
Animl - the village idiot
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 22, 2024, 05:25:18 PM
Welcome to 2 weeks ago.
(https://i.redd.it/sicu72mvk1tc1.png)
Looks like Razbam has discovered the better part of valor. Or the lawyers grabbed them by the throat. The best anyone can figure out there was a contract dispute involving mis-use of IP.
Some here know about IP misuse.
Thanks for the bump.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 22, 2024, 05:46:06 PM
The landings near the end of that video are entertaining. I feel their pain.
Starting about here:
https://youtu.be/Ukjl-Bhy0_I?t=2516
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 22, 2024, 06:04:01 PM
Polychop got a lot of flak for their Gazelle for a long time but everyone seems to be happy with it now. I own the module and it seems fine to me. I've ridden in a couple of military choppers but never behind the stick so what do I know.
It's way better now. That said, I still curve the crap outta the axiseses.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on April 22, 2024, 09:28:42 PM
It's way better now. That said, I still curve the crap outta the axiseses.
Not to get personal, but what size stick do you have?
It's like by default, it would be ok with a full length floor mounted yoke and a full lengths collector arm. With that amount of leverage you could get very fine control.
With a Gladiator sitting on my desk, the throw is a lot shorter. So if you are not using full size hardware, you just always are going to need fair amount of curve. Except for throttle I start at 15 by default.
Thankfully all your tweaks are per airframe so you can tune each to how you like it.
And yeah, I use a heavier curve on the Gaz. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 23, 2024, 06:28:01 AM
Virple Constellation
It handles way better than the old Warthog... but I really miss the 2nd 4-way thumb button.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 07:14:11 AM
I have a Constellation Alpha stick and a Warthog HOTAS set. You can set the mini analog stick on the Virpil to provide digital button presses at the 4 edges making it work like a digital hat.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 07:17:11 AM
I've had the Virpil for a bit over a year now but only recently realized the bottom "lever" is an analog axis and not just a switch like on the Warthog. Works great for wheel brakes.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 07:30:36 AM
I use the Virpil table mount clamp and a 4" extender. The extra leverage of that makes the stick very easy to move. I had to tighten the axes springs so I could feel the center. The Warthog is a good stick but I could never go back. All of the Virpil "hats" have a depress button. The trigger has a "guard" which has 2 button function like the trigger itself. Overall I think the Virpil stick has close to twice as many "buttons" and of course the additional 2 axis mini stick.
<edit> Not twice. The Warthog stick has 19. The Virpil 31.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 23, 2024, 03:50:12 PM
I have a Constellation Alpha stick and a Warthog HOTAS set. You can set the mini analog stick on the Virpil to provide digital button presses at the 4 edges making it work like a digital hat.
How? In the Virp software?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 04:18:43 PM
Yes. Also, it can perform both functions, axes and buttons. Lemme look at the software and I can tell you how.
Videos already on the function so here's one:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 23, 2024, 04:24:17 PM
I figured it out. Thanks... that'll help. Won't help any with the muscle memory part but, I might eventually get over it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 04:30:05 PM
I don't use them anymore but when I did I found you want to set the button for the extremes, like 90-100 on each. Otherwise it's too easy to trigger the wrong button. For example, I have all four directions mapped for buttons like a hat. If I have the axis mapped starting at a low value and I want to trigger the up button but move the axis a little left or right while pushing up it will trigger left or right also. If I use the extremes it won't trigger unintentional motions. Works well like that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 04:34:48 PM
I know what you mean about the muscle memory. I've had to relearn that anyhow because the relative positions of the similar hats are different from the Warthog stick.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 04:38:36 PM
Did you know the little roller on the stick also has left, right, and depress buttons? I've found it difficult to get a solid feel for the difference between going right and down though.
Just checked. Looks like I was wrong on that. Left, Right, and pressing down just activates both left and right. Not really useful for down then. Why I had trouble before I guess.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 23, 2024, 04:45:06 PM
I never really used it because it seemed clunky. After playing with it some more just now depressing actually works like a two stage trigger. It seems to work reliably like this. I'm gonna find a use for it.
Sometimes I really should just rtfm ;)
Here, have another air refueling video :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 23, 2024, 05:12:49 PM
Did you know the little roller on the stick also has left, right, and depress buttons? I've found it difficult to get a solid feel for the difference between going right and down though.
Just checked. Looks like I was wrong on that. Left, Right, and pressing down just activates both left and right. Not really useful for down then. Why I had trouble before I guess.
Ya, but it does have 2 depress buttons (2 clicks down)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 24, 2024, 09:11:46 AM
Ya, but it does have 2 depress buttons (2 clicks down)
If you move it to the left it will click the first. If you move it to the right you can click the second without clicking the first but it's difficult to do. I assumed it was a poor design. Now I think it was intended to be used as a two stage like the trigger.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 24, 2024, 09:36:39 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 24, 2024, 01:22:56 PM
New Thrustmaster product reveal later today.
https://www.thrustmaster.com/discord-reveal/
Guess it's already revealed.
https://www.thrustmaster.com/products/ava-base/
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on April 24, 2024, 03:04:51 PM
Looking at the reveal I don't see any real improvements over other companies like Virpil. I would be willing to bet TM will be pricing it on the high-end of other competitive sticks.
I was a devoted TM user for about 20 years till their customer service and continued use of cheap pot metal forced me to look elsewhere. Sad to see a once innovative company stand still as time marches on.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 24, 2024, 08:14:37 PM
I still use my Warthog throttle. I did the deltasim mod for it a couple of years ago. The original eraser thumbstick was useless. Had a heck of a time with the Deltasim mod for a while though. Every now and then it would lose calibration and nothing I could do would get it working again short of putting the original mini stick back in, calibrating, then replacing it with the deltasim mod. Then I could calibrate it again. The guy who made it had no clue. May have had something to do with fact I get frequent, often buggy, updates from the Windows Insider program. I finally figured out that something was causing the windows registry settings for the stick to have settings which made it inoperable. I changed the permissions on the key so that it cannot be overwritten and have had no more problems.
Here's the key if you run into this: Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\USB\VID_044F&PID_0404
BTW, I tried the Chinese knock off mod first because it was cheaper. My advice, don't.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on April 25, 2024, 04:00:55 PM
Considering my age and what I already have, if it's not FFB I'll never buy another controller. Thrustmaster among others could do it, I know they could... and (JMHO) I think they could turn a profit with it. Just not ~enough~ profit to please the bean counters, or they'd already be there.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on April 25, 2024, 04:57:04 PM
Don't do DCS on Steam. Limitations with no advantages. I have over 500 Steam games but DCS isn't one of them.
There is truth in what you stated. However, it depends on how one squints their eyes. AH suffered the same in steam, which was the start of decline. It is an indicator. Because it is also true, DCS numbers are on decline. Its no longer in its prime. And this production issue is going to scare many off. It has two bad situations converging at just the wrong time..
AH2 major problem was AH3 came too late. Time was wasted on an update of other things that got trashed. Thats where they lost the most. AH3 was too late. Your fix fir DCS may come too late. Its in the same state now. Nothing new, no bug fixes.
It is kinda karma.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 09:19:07 AM
The game doesn't function differently in Steam but the free trials and sales work differently. Steam is convenient but not worth giving up that functionality. Short of World War DCS will be around for many years to come. Perhaps AH will too.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 01, 2024, 09:29:45 AM
Hard to believe that this program, aircraft, mission, and manual are free to everybody:
Hadn't flown it much because jets aren't my main thing, but it is very impressive.
Hard to believe that was all player made. Wish some player dev teams would backfill some needed warbirds. Seems like that would be easier with not fancy electronics to model.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 01, 2024, 09:36:09 AM
The game doesn't function differently in Steam but the free trials and sales work differently. Steam is convenient but not worth giving up that functionality. Short of World War DCS will be around for many years to come. Perhaps AH will too.
Not disagreeing, but another difference is, not all those online players are paying money, depends last purchase.
Lotta noobs are going to start on steam. The dip tells me its not taking on any new players in steam. Like AH, ya have to be there a while to know to dump steam. So its a noob indicator even if some do find it off steam. Like AH, steam numbers dropped first., what followed wasn’t pretty.
The fact DCS players find their fun in AH, if AH were to die the dullness of DCS will become more apparent to them. They aren’t getting their adrenaline fix. Once a community starts passing negative talk epidemic things accelerate. For every one mentioning leaving 4-5 will soon follow. The negative talk about Rasbam could be very dangerous, at just the wrong time. A game could be fine, once that starts its not.
Why do you think I try to tamp down negative talk and stuff like this thread? If ya care about AH ya wouldn’t be doing this, because its causing harm. Dickwood and Trippy din’t have ine single care about AH, they want it dead, exactly why they are doing this. So it us karma watching them realize their iwn major problems after all this infomercial crap.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 01, 2024, 09:53:40 AM
Don't do DCS on Steam. Limitations with no advantages. I have over 500 Steam games but DCS isn't one of them.
I wouldn't say no advantages.
I had original gone through my Steam because mainly, I like to limit how may companies I hand out my CC to if possible. Steam already had my CC for years and years. Whatever risk is there was already a sunk cost. When I buy through Steam, no one else got my info. Steam handles the charges. Sorta like Amazon. I buy so much stuff off Amazon I shudder to think of all the companies I would have handed out info to without Amazon. A common CC processor reduces the risk surface area exposed.
Download times used to be significantly better on Steam. There had been releases where the ED download site was choking on a big release with everyone downloading, when I Steam came right down without a hitch. ED has gotten better on this front.
Can't do trials through Steam, but I could have kept a second plain install to run trials off of.
But yes, standard version is probably better overall as the dev gets more of the money from my purchases.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 10:01:31 AM
I think you can pay through PayPal. But maybe you don't buy through PayPal.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 01, 2024, 10:07:13 AM
AH2 major problem was AH3 came too late. Time was wasted on an update of other things that got trashed. Thats where they lost the most. AH3 was too late. Your fix fir DCS may come too late. Its in the same state now. Nothing new, no bug fixes.
You are right about AH3. My squad lost a lot of members who did not like the AH3 changes.
Just for clarity Animl, the last patch for DCS came out on April 10th, 2024 with a long list of fixes and new features. Next patch is due May 3rd.
As to what is "new" in DCS here is what is expected to be released in the next 60 days:
May 3: Kola map by Orbx (3rd party developer) End of May: F-4E Phantom by Heatblur (3rd party developer) End of May/beginning of June: Kiowa helicopter by Polychop (3rd party developer) June: Chinook helicopter by Eagle Dynamics.
Unfortunately, DCS and Combat Pilot seem to be the only combat flight sims that are working on new stuff/bug fixes. This is one of the reasons this thread seems so DCS biased.
Hopefully there will be more information from Combat Pilot after their attendance at the Flightsim expo this summer.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 01, 2024, 12:18:43 PM
IL-2 has regular updates and fixes. There are some new projects going on as well.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 01, 2024, 12:44:26 PM
IL-2 has regular updates and fixes. There are some new projects going on as well.
From what I gather, the next planned project is Korea. That may or may not be considered part of the BG series, or maybe be it's own franchise.
It will be interesting to see if the hardcore WWII clientele will jump on Korea as a replacement. Korea is the Forgotten War because it just doesn't resonate emotionally as deeply for people as WWII. As someone in that community, do you have any insight? Have you heard people talking about it and their reactions?
They talked about a PTO after Korea, but they seemed to think there'd be some specially tech difficulties with that and performance.
I doubt they have enough bandwidth to give WWII full attention and start a whole new series\platform, so I'd expect their WWII stuff to have to coast a while.
It will be interesting to watch what the hardcore will do. Most will probably just hunker down and keep playing the same WWII IL2 for years without updates or expansion. I don't think Korea will be a big draw for many. Their WWII birds will be second class citizens there getting slapped around by jets. If they wanted jets, they'd already be in DCS.
DCS does not yet have a viable WWII offering. Combat Pilot is still too far away.
I don't think many will come to AH. I suspect subscription and 3 sides won't be overly attractive to them. I think they would see AH (compared to IL2 GB) as a slight step down in fidelity and graphics. I doubt many players like to step down in fidelity or graphics. They either want to move to something comparable or move up the ladder. So my guess many will just age in place and run around the same circles for a couple of years without new dev while their numbers dwindle away. Until CP comes around or DCS decides to put some effort into WWII. Sunk cost. They have already paid for IL2 and own it. With no subscription they don't have to keep paying unless something is truly an improvement, I suspect they will just stay with the Devil they know (and complain about no new WWII dev ;)).
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 12:58:09 PM
Skip to 12:45 to watch him hover. Amazing. He has never flown a real aircraft.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 01, 2024, 01:18:11 PM
CptTrips already did, I just want to add Karjala (https://stormbirds.blog/2023/12/08/exclusive-interview-with-the-il-2-karelia-map-team/) (that's how it's written in Finnish). When it is ready, I need a floats so can land directly to our summer hose.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 01, 2024, 01:18:58 PM
You are right about AH3. My squad lost a lot of members who did not like the AH3 changes.
Just for clarity Animl, the last patch for DCS came out on April 10th, 2024 with a long list of fixes and new features. Next patch is due May 3rd.
As to what is "new" in DCS here is what is expected to be released in the next 60 days:
May 3: Kola map by Orbx (3rd party developer) End of May: F-4E Phantom by Heatblur (3rd party developer) End of May/beginning of June: Kiowa helicopter by Polychop (3rd party developer) June: Chinook helicopter by Eagle Dynamics.
Unfortunately, DCS and Combat Pilot seem to be the only combat flight sims that are working on new stuff/bug fixes. This is one of the reasons this thread seems so DCS biased.
Hopefully there will be more information from Combat Pilot after their attendance at the Flightsim expo this summer.
I think there is a chance at the Corsair\F6F and Essex class carrier\WWII Marianas by EoY. I'd give it 50\50 chance.
I feel like the shock of Williams leaving IL2 and starting a potentially new competitor in the Genre, given his successful track record, has lit some fire under some of the other devs. Nothing like a little disruption and competition to breath new life into a market.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 03:33:12 PM
You are right about AH3. My squad lost a lot of members who did not like the AH3 changes.
Just for clarity Animl, the last patch for DCS came out on April 10th, 2024 with a long list of fixes and new features. Next patch is due May 3rd.
As to what is "new" in DCS here is what is expected to be released in the next 60 days:
May 3: Kola map by Orbx (3rd party developer) End of May: F-4E Phantom by Heatblur (3rd party developer) End of May/beginning of June: Kiowa helicopter by Polychop (3rd party developer) June: Chinook helicopter by Eagle Dynamics.
Unfortunately, DCS and Combat Pilot seem to be the only combat flight sims that are working on new stuff/bug fixes. This is one of the reasons this thread seems so DCS biased.
Hopefully there will be more information from Combat Pilot after their attendance at the Flightsim expo this summer.
I agree with the latter. However, with all good intensions he’s got a issue with PTO only. Ys still have time before its close to turn-key. And zi haven’t seen his payment model. If its like DCS or IL or WT it may have s slow start. Speaking of future, people would go into it with burnt fingers. That system does not have longevity. Thats part of ED problem now. The clock ran out on the math. WT ppl aren’t happy with it either.
Time will tell. But right now, its clear s cpl prime sims are coughing blood.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 03:39:38 PM
Eagle Dynamics goes back to '91 and their sales have never been better. Silly to think they are shutting down any time soon. This is good news for all of us who like flight combat sims.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 03:40:15 PM
AW had Korea if I remember right. Except for the F-86 and Mig-29, it didn’t fair well.
If jets were what these prop guys are about the ME 262 would get more use. This is a knife fight, more intimate, jets are nowhere near intimate its flash fighting.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 03:43:50 PM
A guns only fight in an F-16 vs a Mig-29 is very much a "knife fight".
An F-86 vs a Mig-15 even closer.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 03:49:56 PM
Eagle Dynamics goes back to '91 and their sales have never been better. Silly to think they are shutting down any time soon. This is good news for all of us who like flight combat sims.
No sim dying is good. Accirding to charts I saw this is not ED’s best time. ED/DCS didn’t seem to be as mainstream in the 90s. No ine talked about it, except in maybe sim mags. 90s mainstream was AW, Fighter Ace, James Planes, WB.
One main reason then as now, nit the same mindset. Players saw it matched with MS Flight Sim league.
I’m not just saying it to be a smartass, its truly apples snd oranges. Prolly why HT doesn ‘t mind this. Its not getting any flash draw.
Even if they manage to push this in the ditch as planned by Trippy Appleseed, doesn’t mean he gets the migration. IL and WT is closer to AH style.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 03:54:55 PM
Why do you think I try to tamp down negative talk and stuff like this thread? If ya care about AH ya wouldn’t be doing this, because its causing harm. Dickwood and Trippy din’t have ine single care about AH, they want it dead, exactly why they are doing this. So it us karma watching them realize their iwn major problems after all this infomercial crap.
Our plan to kill the game is working muhahahahahaha as Rud3boi called it quits. One of the pillars of the damn game said SEE YA :bolt:
In truth we don't have to do anything to kill this game. The Dolts, Dweebs, and the game itself is doing all the work.
Your over there riggin up a bildge pump on a sinking ship. The captains got his settlement lifeboat already in the water.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on May 01, 2024, 06:37:20 PM
https://youtu.be/SmsW5iEW5i0
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 07:33:51 PM
Our plan to kill the game is working muhahahahahaha as Rud3boi called it quits. One of the pillars of the damn game said SEE YA :bolt:
In truth we don't have to do anything to kill this game. The Dolts, Dweebs, and the game itself is doing all the work.
Your over there riggin up a bildge pump on a sinking ship. The captains got his settlement lifeboat already in the water.
You’re such a small lonely boy. Now we all see why everyone has you on ignore. Your game is on fire and i love it. :) karma, ya gotta dig it. You spend so much time on a pc ranting because the real world flips you the bird.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 07:38:19 PM
So I watched that. Fun fight! But it did raise the question of how accurate the DCS P-51 flight model is, and I wondered how this fight was different from the fights in AH3....
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 08:35:25 PM
I don’t think anyone would say it was. Especially those in the beginning. But AW and AH type of play smokes dcs. Dcs is all glitter.
Your proclamations might have more substance if you had actually spent any time with DCS. After claiming the terrain in AH is superior it became obvious you have not.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 01, 2024, 08:42:11 PM
So I watched that. Fun fight! But it did raise the question of how accurate the DCS P-51 flight model is, and I wondered how this fight was different from the fights in AH3....
- oldman
Nick Grey is uncompromising and owns a P-51. Maybe we can get Tom Cruise's input? Anyone got his number?
My Dad rode in a jump seat in one but he's gone.
Spitfire
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 01, 2024, 08:56:45 PM
If don't see much different in the flight model in how the P47D-30 compares to the P47N here. Graphics are better in DCS but learning curve is higher and the AI gets too gamey for me. Populations of real players is possible but pings make it unplayable at times, especially if the don't speak English. So I have to revert back to fighting AI targets, which I personally loathe. Maps are 30 or 40 bucks a piece and the planes are 80 bucks. .....and ya gotta study.
On the other hand the mission editor in DSC is brilliant.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 10:19:36 PM
Your proclamations might have more substance if you had actually spent any time with DCS. After claiming the terrain in AH is superior it became obvious you have not.
WHOA!, I never said AH terrain was superior, I said DCS terrain looked like 90s graphics,... which turned out to be Dickwoods videos were lame quality.
I tried DCS years ago, when I caught on to the pay method rip and the computer I'd need at the time,... it didn't retain my interest. I don't want to spend time in it, I want to fly and fight.
Maybe it's a good hobby for those no longer seeking adrenaline flow. Not my type of fun. I'll do me.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 01, 2024, 10:23:24 PM
If don't see much different in the flight model in how the P47D-30 compares to the P47N here. Graphics are better in DCS but learning curve is higher and the AI gets too gamey for me. Populations of real players is possible but pings make it unplayable at times, especially if the don't speak English. So I have to revert back to fighting AI targets, which I personally loathe. Maps are 30 or 40 bucks a piece and the planes are 80 bucks. .....and ya gotta study.
On the other hand the mission editor in DSC is brilliant.
AI is an absolute buzz-kill for me. Probably ranks on the top of reasons I have zero interest, next to money pit.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 10:27:08 AM
AI won't whup you and then start a thread on the forum bragging about it. No ego to bruise or boost. Yet.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 02, 2024, 12:45:16 PM
I tried DCS years ago, when I caught on to the pay method rip and the computer I'd need at the time,... it didn't retain my interest. I don't want to spend time in it, I want to fly and fight.
Maybe it's a good hobby for those no longer seeking adrenaline flow. Not my type of fun. I'll do me.
Not to disagree, but you might be going off of an old game play experience. DCS multiplayer has evolved a lot in the last year or so.
For the last couple months I have been trying out two multiplayer servers. First, the one I thought was just okay.
The is "Project Overlord" which is a recreation of several days after D-day. This server seems to be European based with player numbers dropping off after European prime time. I found navigation to find the fight to be difficult as the kneeboard map depicting cities very hard to read. Sometimes it took 10 minutes or more to fly to the action. Once in the action, it was good. All allied aircraft are easily identified visually due to invasion stripes. There is no dynamic front line and you are restricted to WWII fighters, which have limited ground attack abilities. A new player wanting to check it out would be required to buy a WWII aircraft module and the Normandy map.
The second server I have been trying is Enigmas Cold War server. This is a dynamic campaign featuring early cold war jets (i.e. F-86, F-5, A-4E, MIGs, etc). Even though it is jets and helicopters, most of the air to air kills are with guns and a very primitive heat seeking air to air missile. The heat seekers are pretty easy to dodge, unless you try to disengage the fight while very close to your opponent. The result is that the fights are knife fights. I have been flying blue force aircraft (US), but there are counterpart Mig, Su, and red force helicopters available.
Finding the frontline is easy with a large map showing the entire terrain broken up into blue and red hexagons. There is a messaging system that shows you were the closest five enemy aircraft are every 30 seconds. Flying to the fight is usually under 5 minutes.
As I said this is a dynamic campaign with destruction of factories, depots, ect. moving the frontline. End goal is to capture the enemy HQ and the campaigns usually run several days. There are three maps that are rotated, Caucasus, Syria, and Persian Gulf. You can fly CAP along the frontlines or do deep strikes/recon into the heart of the enemy. While AI bombers are available, one of the main ordinance delivery methods is using the A-4E (it carries about the same bomb load as a B-17) or Su-25 red force side. The A-4E also is a decent air to air fighter.
Helicopters allow you to carry infantry, special forces, and recon teams. You drop them off, let them do their thing, then pick them up. You can pickup downed pilots (both friendly and enemy) which results in lowering your sides attrition and gaining enemy position intel. You can also load out your helicopter as a gunship and attack the enemy directly.
There is a lot of game play ability with this server and a decent number of players are on it 24/7. In fact there are times the server has maxed out players of 60+.
To play on the Cold War server you need the following: Base DCS program =Free A-4E aircraft = Free Su-25T aircraft = Free This will allow you to try it without cost when the Caucasus map is in rotation.
If you like it, then you can buy the other maps and aircraft that interest you.
If interested, do a google search on Enigma Cold War server and you will get lots of hits for info and tutorials. Since it is free to try out all you have to lose is a little time and some hard drive space.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: oboe on May 02, 2024, 01:06:10 PM
Is Georgia at War still a server? I remember flying on there, and they had RL air traffic controllers that gave you taxi instructions, and after you took off, they handed you off to a different controller so you'd have to switch radio frequencies.
I enjoyed that level of immersion.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 02, 2024, 01:51:48 PM
AI won't whup you and then start a thread on the forum bragging about it. No ego to bruise or boost. Yet.
To many, thats a sad compromise. Egos can be tuned out, AI reminds of a blow up doll, it will never be the same. Again, not at all interested, and I’m not alone. I’ll play nothing before dcs. Did that for years, no hook in mouth.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 02:28:35 PM
Of course you can fly with and against real people in DCS. I prefer learning an aircraft against AI. DCS is not like some that anyone can jump in, take off, and starting shooting people.
And of course if you do any base attacks in AH chances are you will be flying against AI controlled anti-aircraft fire.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 02, 2024, 02:42:32 PM
AIs develop fast. Someone doing those topics in here might create one.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 02, 2024, 03:12:51 PM
50% of my problem, besides AI, I got burned out on dcs here before I gave it another shot. Fried on even hearing the letters. Way overload.
I’m just not interested. Like at all. I have no craving to even try it.
The main reason I stuck with AH is multiplayer arenas, which I doubt dcs will ever have. My whole draw was fighting humans.
I can’t be talked into something I have no interest in. Basically, I’ll prolly just evaporate like 14 yrs ago. I’m not imoressed with many I’ve run a across from DCS. This here, cooked that.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 03:17:25 PM
I don't think anyone here is trying to talk you into playing DCS Animl. Most here have probably tried it. I played many more hours of AH in the past than I have DCS. I enjoy more modern aircraft and more realism these days. It's okay if your mileage varies.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 02, 2024, 03:28:26 PM
Is Georgia at War still a server? I remember flying on there, and they had RL air traffic controllers that gave you taxi instructions, and after you took off, they handed you off to a different controller so you'd have to switch radio frequencies.
I enjoyed that level of immersion.
There is a Hoggit server:
"Hoggit - Georgia at War" https://atwar.online/
Hoggit also has a "Persia at War" along similar lines.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on May 02, 2024, 03:32:37 PM
And that's the problem. I would probably play it more if I didn't have to learn so much stuff I always forget again when taking a prolonged break :old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 02, 2024, 03:43:28 PM
And that's the problem. I would probably play it more if I didn't have to learn so much stuff I always forget again when taking a prolonged break :old:
Which for the warbirds or simpler helo like the huey \ mi-8 isn't that bad.
I just jumped back in to the huey after a couple of month, no problemo. 5 min and I'm back in the saddle. I'm going back and learning all the nav stuff. I'd only done the FM homing.
Jumping back into the Apache would take more effort. But that is always the trade-off. Depth vs breadth. I'm sure it is a lot easier jumping between stuff in WT. The further toward the sim end of the spectrum, the more work to master multiple platforms. It's why I am going to start being more selective on new modules I buy until I can digest a couple of the key ones I get up to speed on. For a while I am going to concentrate on huey, mi-8, spit IX, Dora. That will allow me to have something I am comfortable with on either coalition on most of the servers I am interested on.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Lusche on May 02, 2024, 03:47:58 PM
Which for the warbirds or simpler helo like the huey \ mi-8 isn't that bad.
I never really learned them to begin with :D Seriously, learning any kind of systems is like being back at school.... and having ADD, school was hell :bhead
So I just fly around all those pretty places :airplane:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 03:54:16 PM
Relatively recently I've spent much time learning the F-16. Time to move on the F-18. How different can it be right? Mucho.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 02, 2024, 04:00:31 PM
So I just fly around all those pretty places :airplane:
I do that too.
I had been having fun just planning cross-country day trips across southern England. Taking the spit, learning cold start, taxi take off, map nav no cheating. Pattern, land, eat a cheese burger at base-ops bar and grill, fly home and land, taxi, parkit. ;) Sometimes a jaunt across the channel for lunch in Calais. ;)
Normandy 2 is a beuatiful map.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 02, 2024, 04:15:50 PM
On the other hand the mission editor in DSC is brilliant.
Like most of DCS, I describe it as a beautiful hot mess. ;)
So much it can to brilliantly. So many problems too. It can be frustrating but I am willing to forgive a lot as long as code is being written and somethings getting fixed now and then. As long as they don't quit bothering.
Having access to a scripting language that can access core components of the simulation is huge. Gives you a lot of power. A lot to learn and not ALL powerful, but soooo much potential.
Gives me a testbed platform to try some stuff and decide what I want to spend more time working on.
I have a spare box I setup a little custom server on to have a platform to play around mission building on and testing. Right now I am running a couple of missions I made that were inspired by some if the AI missions I had made for Nefarious when he was getting his Fortress Europe going. Same basic idea as I did there but reimplemented in DCS' editor and adding a little scripting in lua.
The other day I popped in to do some testing (I do have it open to the public) and had some guys in there. I was admin stalking them grabbing some video just to watch how the gameplay ran for other than me. They seemed to be having fun.
Lost sound on part of it but I didn't go redo it. Justa quickie video of some testing.
Same action recorded by one of those guys POV:
It's currently running a b-17 mission to Paris, and a Ju-88 mission to London in rotation.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 04:24:54 PM
Add some narration Trips, make it epicer.
How many died, or at least suffered sorely bruised egos, ground handling that Anton. There were not two seat trainers me thinks.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 02, 2024, 04:50:06 PM
Leyts look at it this. Including what I said above, this #2 in getting burned, ED has major problems their path and finances. This payment plan can only go do long before implosion. They are reaching then end of the clock on this method.
As far as being convinced to play,…Trippy Appleseed would try to sell it to a mole. He and Dickwood are nonstop, I’m not sure they ate actual humans. I don’t think I’ve seen someone more obsessed over crack cocaine.
End note; dcs currently has major issues, and if that fix doesn’t come right quick its a spiral. It’s not in optimal timing.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 04:50:15 PM
I'm not a pro but I have watched a Holiday Inn Express commercial. Turn down the game volume if you plan to narrate a video. People want to hear you talk.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 04:51:37 PM
No Animl, that's not it, no one cares. Make a video. Narrate it. Add some humor.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 02, 2024, 05:37:17 PM
No Animl, that's not it, no one cares. Make a video. Narrate it. Add some humor.
From my POV I’m spot on. Never saw anything like it, and I’ve been down a lot of roads. Its disturbing when it doesn’t involve drugs , alcohol or politics.
I did make a vid, 15 min of MotA. Waiting for new MB to finish it. New PC cooked. Vid 90% done.
I can be humorous. Some people don’t give me room on bbs. Got some real winners here. i have my fun on 200 and others have fun with me.
Many times I come to bbs and just want to jab a pen in my eye, over and over. :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 02, 2024, 05:42:47 PM
Quote
Many times I come to bbs and just want to jab a pen in my eye, over and over. :)
Would it help if we cheered him on? :rofl
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 02, 2024, 06:04:39 PM
I'm not a pro but I have watched a Holiday Inn Express commercial. Turn down the game volume if you plan to narrate a video. People want to hear you talk.
I’m far from pro. The pros tell me to stick to sudio.
I just taught myself in the last yr because I saw it lacking.
70s I had a Triumph 750 . Learned Harley’s in the 80s by rebuilding every single part, including trans on my first one, next to my bed in my bedroom. Lived and breathed it. I attack everything like that. I’m not the best, I just do MY best.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 02, 2024, 06:59:51 PM
The Hughes OH-6A, exceptionally flown, poorly.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on May 02, 2024, 07:21:37 PM
Populations of real players is possible but pings make it unplayable at times,
Try the Wolfpack US server
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 03, 2024, 04:42:59 AM
Ya, I rem er dealing with Counter Strike servers. A real PITA. AH ya hit the MA, no search and struggle. Multi servers, Pings, weirdo players, rampant cheating, no mods, very gamey, low numbers. MAs were the best thing since napkins. It still is.
These games have one thing going for them, new graphics, which they all are catching up on. DCS doesn’t stand out as much.
Building acm against AI is very low. Many vids of players shooting AI, very boring. The best thing dcs has is pretty cockpits. Buttons over game play. Notice whats intensionally not mentioned, price, game play, dropping numbers, finding large numbers to fight, production is shut down. “But we have pretty cockpits and graphics.”
Ya can’t trust words of salesmen, ya gotta dig past that fluff.to see reality. Its just not as sold.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 09:09:27 AM
The main attraction of DCS for me is being able to learn at your own pace without harassment from players. Last night a couple of players called me a chicken/coward because I chose to go off my myself and relearn how to dive bomb radars, on the other side of the map. After 10 yrs the fields have all changed! I have settings to set up, skins to download, views, maps to memorize etc...it takes time. So thank Hollywood and GldBB for yet another player canceling his account. I'm not paying and investing time for that. I'm not trying to impress anyone as I simply just want to fly a P38 that DCS doesn't have. I have nothing to prove nor should I be expected to follow sheep around. Truth be known, I have forgotten more about this game then some of them will probably ever know...but that's okay. It's their sandbox now and I refuse to roll around with all self inflated cat turds I've found here. Two days in the game I was bombarded with tune to channel requests, squad invites etc. Why? Those people don't know me from a man on the moon. So to be polite I tuned to their channel after several requests, although I'd rather not be bothered. I guess I didn't make that clear enough by repeatedly turning down squad requests. I just wanna fly without the childish antics and commentary of the crowd I'm finding here. I'm getting too old and tired to put up with crap...much less pay 15 bucks a month for it.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 03, 2024, 09:17:04 AM
The main attraction of DCS for me is being able to learn at your own pace without harassment from players. Last night a couple of players called me a chicken/coward because I chose to go off my myself and relearn how to dive bomb radars, on the other side of the map. After 10 yrs the fields have all changed! I have settings to set up, skins to download, views, maps to memorize etc...it takes time. So thank Hollywood and GldBB for yet another player canceling his account. I'm not paying and investing time for that. I'm not trying to impress anyone as I simply just want to fly a P38 that DCS doesn't have. I have nothing to prove nor should I be expected to follow sheep around. Truth be known, I have forgotten more about this game then some of them will probably ever know...but that's okay. It's their sandbox now and I refuse to roll around with all self inflated cat turds I've found here. Two days in the game I was bombarded with tune to channel requests, squad invites etc. Why? Those people don't know me from a man on the moon. So to be polite I tuned to their channel after several requests, although I'd rather not be bothered. I guess I didn't make that clear enough by repeatedly turning down squad requests. I just wanna fly without the childish antics and commentary of the crowd I'm finding here. I'm getting too old and tired to put up with crap...much less pay 15 bucks a month for it.
I'm sorry you experienced that, uptown. I hate that a couple of players ruined your experience. I understand having to relearn everything because the game HAS changed so much since then. If you reconsider, and I hope you do, I would be willing to help with whatever is needed! :salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 09:25:19 AM
Thanks Banshee and I may take you up on that. But for now, I'll just stick to offline practice for a while. :salute
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 03, 2024, 09:39:40 AM
Thanks Banshee and I may take you up on that. But for now, I'll just stick to offline practice for a while. :salute
Oh btw, no one listens to gldnbb. He's one of the resident armchair generals that can be found on each country. Each country has a least one, and it doesn't take long to see who they are! It took me a while to learn the layouts of bases and stuff, and I'm still not great at it because I spend most of my time hunting planes. I will share what knowledge I have to keep players in the game!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 09:43:32 AM
Like most of DCS, I describe it as a beautiful hot mess. ;)
One problem and workaround I've resorted to is getting all bombers in a group to attack an assigned target. In some cases I gave up on using an actual group and just created individual groups for each bomber. To keep them in formation I give them all close waypoints. Kludgy I know but it does work.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 10:26:40 AM
One problem and workaround I've resorted to is getting all bombers in a group to attack an assigned target. In some cases I gave up on using an actual group and just created individual groups for each bomber. To keep them in formation I give them all close waypoints. Kludgy I know but it does work.
In mission editor you can assign wingmen to your flight....up to 5 I think? They will follow your flight plan through all waypoints, that way you won't have to setup individual WPs for each aircraft. Also, you can set "triggers" in editor to make them react to what you want them to target at any point in the mission, and then return to your flight path.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 10:34:16 AM
Oh btw, no one listens to gldnbb. He's one of the resident armchair generals that can be found on each country. Each country has a least one, and it doesn't take long to see who they are! It took me a while to learn the layouts of bases and stuff, and I'm still not great at it because I spend most of my time hunting planes. I will share what knowledge I have to keep players in the game!
I figured I was in deep trouble when the plan was to take a base with no eggs. :rofl Okay boys, I'll be over here ...good luck.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 03, 2024, 10:36:53 AM
In mission editor you can assign wingmen to your flight....up to 5 I think? They will follow your flight plan through all waypoints, that way you won't have to setup individual WPs for each aircraft.
Yes, but I'm sure you realize that DCS sometimes has bugs. ;)
I had originally done that in my 36-45 bomber formations. They even have a specific large formation wp action. In trying to use that I ran into weird behaviors of AI wingmen getting into bizarre control feedback loops where the element would go all squirrely and start porpoising more and more. I had to break it out into individually groups and parallel routes to avoid that temporarily. I think it just had a hole in the logic that over adjusted at high alt. It may not do that at a lower alt I need to test more again someday, but sometimes you have to find a temp fix and live to fight another day.
There were various glitches Nefarious and I were working around in AH's mission editor too. Software has bugs. All software does.
<S>
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 10:41:48 AM
Yeah, no problem getting a group of bombers to stay together. Getting them all to bomb their assigned target is the issue. Often a group of 4 will let the lead drop bombs then they all fly away together with full bomb loads. I've tried all the various settings.
Load up a group of 4 TU-22s with anti-ship missiles and send them against a carrier group and watch what happens. You can create the same formation with 4 groups but only 1 plane in each group. Then they will all attack. Another oddity I've seen occasionally is when you create one bomber, add weapons, give it waypoints and a target. Then ctrl-c to copy and ctrl-v to paste. They just don't work the same as when created individually.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 03, 2024, 10:48:05 AM
Yeah, no problem getting a group of bombers to stay together. Getting them all to bomb their assigned target is the issue. Often a group of 4 will let the lead drop bombs then they all fly away together with full bomb loads. I've tried all the various settings.
I think I saw some tweaks to fix that. It shouldn't be so hard, but I think that was fixable.
The porpoising may have been fixable keeping the formation at a lower alt. 28k may have been out of what the programmers had tested with. I think at 20k that may have smoothed out. Something I will play with next time.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 10:50:32 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 10:57:44 AM
Trigger actions or the "attack my target" option by hotkey command. Set it to a button on your HOTAS. :cheers:
Check out the Grim Reapers (YouTube) videos for more info.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 11:06:13 AM
I'm talking about setting up an attack force controlled completely by AI. I never use AI wingmen.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 11:11:39 AM
I thought maybe there was something hidden when you assign a group of bombers to attack a target. Such that when the first plane dropped the rest considered the target attacked. But, I tried it even with carpet bombing, same thing. I haven't tried it in a while. Maybe it's different now.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 11:14:58 AM
I made some videos a while back on the subject.
The first.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 11:19:16 AM
That was just one aspect. As I mentioned I also gave groups of bombers orders to carpet bomb. Only the first dropped. I tried all the settings.
At least there are workarounds.
The second video on the issue.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 11:39:20 AM
I have gotten it work before. Just seems very inconsistent. As I mentioned, it's been a while since I did any testing. I want a fleet battle so may try again.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 03, 2024, 11:48:33 AM
The main attraction of DCS for me is being able to learn at your own pace without harassment from players. Last night a couple of players called me a chicken/coward because I chose to go off my myself and relearn how to dive bomb radars, on the other side of the map. After 10 yrs the fields have all changed! I have settings to set up, skins to download, views, maps to memorize etc...it takes time. So thank Hollywood and GldBB for yet another player canceling his account. I'm not paying and investing time for that. I'm not trying to impress anyone as I simply just want to fly a P38 that DCS doesn't have. I have nothing to prove nor should I be expected to follow sheep around. Truth be known, I have forgotten more about this game then some of them will probably ever know...but that's okay. It's their sandbox now and I refuse to roll around with all self inflated cat turds I've found here. Two days in the game I was bombarded with tune to channel requests, squad invites etc. Why? Those people don't know me from a man on the moon. So to be polite I tuned to their channel after several requests, although I'd rather not be bothered. I guess I didn't make that clear enough by repeatedly turning down squad requests. I just wanna fly without the childish antics and commentary of the crowd I'm finding here. I'm getting too old and tired to put up with crap...much less pay 15 bucks a month for it.
A lotta truth here. Unfortunately, its a small group with arrogant mouths ALLOWED to walk over everyone and make everyone look bad. Could be 130 on, but 5 will vomit everywhere and get the most attention.
Also unfortunate allowing a few things to not disrupt the dust and hide in isolation is not going well as a whole.
Sometimes it has the feel of sabotage from within.
Lose 1 good guy, lose 5 Lose 5 bad guy, gain 10
Ya can’t just lay down and do zero. Paying customers deserve SOMETHING. Allowing ithers to chase players away is like running a restaurant and sllowing outsiders come in to eat off your plate.
Lock the bad threads, boot the repeat disrupters. Stop the excuses.
Anything else is Russian Roulette. Feeding the competitors.
Personally, no MA, I have other things to do in life.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 03, 2024, 12:05:20 PM
Game and forum have changed a lot during my time in here, which is not so long. And that change is really not positive. Looks like few individuals with their shades are trying to empty the MA and force Dale to close the whole thing. Personal revenge?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 03, 2024, 01:04:23 PM
Seems unlikely. The drama going on now on this board is nothing new. It was worse when politics, religion, and other topics were allowed. Who here that has played this game has anything against Dale?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: uptown on May 03, 2024, 06:44:30 PM
Think AW
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on May 03, 2024, 07:42:44 PM
I don't remember this kind of dung in the AW days. People got mad at each other - remember the "Who killed the Bettys?" discussion? - but the personal venom - calling people psychopaths and such - wasn't there, even in the political discussions on the later Bigweek newsgroup. This is something new and very ugly.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on May 03, 2024, 07:58:22 PM
Funny how one unaware dolt blames the loss of players on former players.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 04, 2024, 02:31:36 AM
Game and forum have changed a lot during my time in here, which is not so long. And that change is really not positive. Looks like few individuals with their shades are trying to empty the MA and force Dale to close the whole thing. Personal revenge?
I'm starting to think this myself.
The last year or two here has really gone down the gutter and I'm beginning to think their is some motive behind this, perhaps those who would like to appear to be supporting the game are actively contributing to its demise.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 05, 2024, 04:17:29 AM
The last year or two here has really gone down the gutter and I'm beginning to think their is some motive behind this, perhaps those who would like to appear to be supporting the game are actively contributing to its demise.
Decided to quit. Maybe some day back if atmosphere gets better. What I really doubt. This is direct DejaVu from the days when downhill at WarBirds started to go steeper and steeper.
At least I made some dunghill roosters happy not to be disturbing their glamorous path to eternal glory with noobiness. And some others sorry, as no easy GT kills any more.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: knorB on May 05, 2024, 06:27:00 AM
Decided to quit. Maybe some day back if atmosphere gets better. What I really doubt. This is direct DejaVu from the days when downhill at WarBirds started to go steeper and steeper.
At least I made some dunghill roosters happy not to be disturbing their glamorous path to eternal glory with noobiness. And some others sorry, as no easy GT kills any more.
Stay off the bbs, defund 200 and squelch the tards.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Animl-AW on May 05, 2024, 08:53:01 AM
Funny how one unaware dolt blames the loss of players on former players.
I consider the source, no one bad mouths AH more than you. You are projecting yourself. Many have you on ignore for a reason. Even Trips doesn’t vomit on AH like you do. i don’t have to prove anything. Its all over the bbs. You just say stupid stiff like this because people call you out, I’m not alone “Dickwood”. I didn’t flag that name on you. Wasn’t me, it was others who care about AH. That name fits you like a glove. You seem to project because I’m the loudest I’m the only one. They are just more pite about it than I am. You’re the idiot.
Paranoia? I don’t have to say anything, everyone is seeing it. Are all CM staff, skinners, map makers, who do not support this in any way, are they all paranoid too? Not one of them support this thread. They all see the harm too.
Just because you’re called out on what you are doesn’t make anyone paranoid.
The most foolish part about this convo is thinking I’m alone, I’m not. Its only former or dcs players who say this. That speaks volumes. I don’t know any current players who welcomes you here. What you want me to do is lay down and take it so you can continue your vomit without anyone calling you out.
Your attempts to bad mouth AH supersede Trips. You’re the worst of the worst and you love that. You wear that badge with honors.
Bbs has a search option, thats the only tool I need to prove my point hands down.
Paranoid? Phfffff! Words of a dcs player.
You’re the best example I have. Youe # 1 goal is to discourage ppl from playing AH. Trips plays on words, you just come right out and say it. Then deny you say it. You’re messed up.
100% projection
Before you call me paranoit use the search option with your name.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: LCADolby on May 05, 2024, 09:57:38 AM
Oh for God's sake, go away Animl. Stop sniffing glue and then getting on the BBS.
Your brain damaged ramblings are the biggest detractor Aceshigh provides.
:old:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 05, 2024, 11:30:08 AM
I consider the source, no one bad mouths AH more than you. You are projecting yourself. Many have you on ignore for a reason. Even Trips doesn’t vomit on AH like you do. i don’t have to prove anything. Its all over the bbs. You just say stupid stiff like this because people call you out, I’m not alone “Dickwood”. I didn’t flag that name on you. Wasn’t me, it was others who care about AH. That name fits you like a glove. You seem to project because I’m the loudest I’m the only one. They are just more pite about it than I am. You’re the idiot.
Paranoia? I don’t have to say anything, everyone is seeing it. Are all CM staff, skinners, map makers, who do not support this in any way, are they all paranoid too? Not one of them support this thread. They all see the harm too.
Just because you’re called out on what you are doesn’t make anyone paranoid.
The most foolish part about this convo is thinking I’m alone, I’m not. Its only former or dcs players who say this. That speaks volumes. I don’t know any current players who welcomes you here. What you want me to do is lay down and take it so you can continue your vomit without anyone calling you out.
Your attempts to bad mouth AH supersede Trips. You’re the worst of the worst and you love that. You wear that badge with honors.
Bbs has a search option, thats the only tool I need to prove my point hands down.
Paranoid? Phfffff! Words of a dcs player.
You’re the best example I have. Youe # 1 goal is to discourage ppl from playing AH. Trips plays on words, you just come right out and say it. Then deny you say it. You’re messed up.
100% projection
Before you call me paranoit use the search option with your name.
You were not mentioned by name
Do you sniff the old school super glue or the new school gorilla glue?
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Oldman731 on May 05, 2024, 08:49:36 PM
Stay off the bbs, defund 200 and squelch the tards.
Agreed. My own motto is: Never let a fool ruin your day.
If you enjoy the game, don't let other people screw with that.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: GasTeddy on May 06, 2024, 01:59:48 AM
Well, hardcore tanking and occasional flying w/o icons and orientation with map, compass and landmarks are now more in my interest. IL-2 has servers for that. Especially Finnish one is demanding. And less ranting.
Like yesterday, took 110 to clean our only possible tank advance route from U-2 guarding a bridge. It had rockets and cut the tracks of every tank trying to cross the river. The field was quite far away and while otw, was chatting w/ guys on both sides about some server issues and got totally lost.
Btw, IL-2 has sales going on.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: knorB on May 06, 2024, 05:32:35 AM
I don't remember this kind of dung in the AW days. People got mad at each other - remember the "Who killed the Bettys?" discussion? - but the personal venom - calling people psychopaths and such - wasn't there, even in the political discussions on the later Bigweek newsgroup. This is something new and very ugly.
- oldman
There wasn’t quite the reason. BW would swallow these others biting my ankles whole. We didn’t ALLOW former players or other sim players to trash our forums.
If I remember right, you also were against WB players invading AW forums, now its “ ok”.
In the old days of AW forums, us staff would decide who needs to go and press the button. It would NOT continue like this to build into a trash can. Thats how we avoided the cesspool.
In BW we had kill files that worked much better than ignore. Similar in AW forms. You didn’t see the post of those you blocked.
So whats changed is toxic and promoting other games is now allowed. And we all falsely sit and wonder why its going south.
Take deep note who do not support these threads and antics, the ones who matter. Contributors.
If ya allow vandals to kick over trash cans your neighborhood soon enough looks like trash.
Not everyone disagrees with me, the ones that do are former players who don’t matter.
We certainly didn’t allow the WB invasion, who pulled the same tactics, same excuses, dame words. Why I can oredict it all, seen it all before.Those threads were killed instantly to avoid just this.
I didn’t change, allowance changed. Its absurd.
This stuff even chased TC away who was in charge of keeping it in order. This is NOT what we would allow.
This is why its different. It sickens all of us former staff. None of us support whats allowed these days,
I’ll finish my MotA vid, but not lifting another finger until we get s house cleaning. It gies against ALL OUR efforts. Trust me, I’m not alone. Take note who is not here, those who matter.
Lets not forget before I left Tex threatened to harm my family, here, BW and A Kill Has Been Recorded, 1 yr later I lost them both, I left AH.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: knorB on May 06, 2024, 08:07:43 AM
Has nothing to do with what you think. You should be banned for that 10 hrs of bombing my PM., like children do. Not doing do just encourages your stupid mouth. You have not clue one what we are talking about. No shock there. You don’t have many friends here outside former players. You’re irrelevent.
It was glorious blowing you out of the air. Must be humiliating even I can beat you.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 06, 2024, 08:52:12 AM
Your sig line is as good as your last one, Coad2. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Tweaking settings provided by the real coder never made you a coder. You live lies.
Sig line.
Get a job.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 06, 2024, 09:13:18 AM
Sig line.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 09:13:21 AM
Ineffective to use an IP to ban someone. IPs can change every time you reset your modem/gateway. HTC uses additional info.
Depending on your ISP of course. Some will assign you the same IP for a while, others don't. Frontier changes mine every time I reset the box.
Some people call their gateways "routers". Technically they are not routers. Just a little IT trivia.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: knorB on May 06, 2024, 09:19:27 AM
Has nothing to do with what you think. You should be banned for that 10 hrs of bombing my PM.
I guess HTC disagrees on your assessment on what transpired, otherwise I'd not be here.
, like children do. Be sure to include you're "10 Hours" of replies, simple simon.
Not doing do just encourages your stupid mouth.
English, do you speak it?
You have not clue one what we are talking about. Your chicken little sky is falling because mean stuff/other game promotion is going on here. Not wanting to look at game viability in an already niche market that has more modern offerings that get updated.
No shock there.
You still being a chicken little , correct not shocked You don’t have many friends here outside former players. LOL and you do? You are mocked by all for your lack of self awareness and overestimation of your opinion of your importance.
You’re irrelevent. Hello pot this is kettle you are black
It was glorious blowing you out of the air. Must be humiliating even I can beat you.
Impossible, I haven't played since 2009 or so that's some real manure you're spreading, Liar.
I've taken the time to address this as a curtesy, any more of your shenanigans shall be dealt with using pure derision and mockery. Because that is what you court, Internet billy badda55.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 09:20:44 AM
I made a little video to help someone with using the new OH-6A mod. I won't spend much time in this aircraft but it's fun to take a spin around the island with the Magnum PI theme playing in the background.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 09:28:29 AM
Not my video but maybe this will brighten your day a tiny bit.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 06, 2024, 09:33:02 AM
Not my video but maybe this will brighten your day a tiny bit.
Noice.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 06, 2024, 09:47:24 AM
I was browsing around on the DCS site earlier. I knew you had to buy aircraft, but JEEZ. $75 for a plane? Do they run deals periodically, or how does that work? (not complaining, just expressing my surprise)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 09:47:51 AM
So, was Higgins really Robin Masters? :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 09:48:29 AM
I was browsing around on the DCS site earlier. I knew you had to buy aircraft, but JEEZ. $75 for a plane? Do they run deals periodically, or how does that work? (not complaining, just expressing my surprise)
5-6 sales a year, as much as 50% off most modules.
Many good free mods created by players. That OH-6A is free. The A-4 Skyhawk is very good mod and free also. A better intro to choppers would be the free UH-60 if you don't want to spring for a Huey. That OH-6A is not a noob chopper.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 06, 2024, 10:06:01 AM
5-6 sales a year, as much as 50% off most modules.
Many good free mods created by players. That OH-6A is free. The A-4 Skyhawk is very good mod and free also. A better intro to choppers would be the free UH-60 if you don't want to spring for a Huey. That OH-6A is not a noob chopper.
Oh, cool! I'd probably be interested in more modern aircraft, as I've always leaned towards WW2 planes. I'm anxious to try it out again this summer when I have more time and have TIR setup!
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 06, 2024, 10:19:43 AM
I was browsing around on the DCS site earlier. I knew you had to buy aircraft, but JEEZ. $75 for a plane? Do they run deals periodically, or how does that work? (not complaining, just expressing my surprise)
Yeah. Don't be dumb like me. ;)
Sales are pretty frequent and with free mods and trial periods there is no reason to not wait a month or two for the next sale.
Get the free client DCS World, free mod Blackhawk, free mod A-4, maybe this free OH-6 mod and just get started with those while waiting for the next sale. Maybe trial what you are seriously considering buying first while you are waiting.
They seem ridiculous in price until you look at the detail and depth of some of the models. It's a different approach than a survey-sim. I think of it like the old days when you'd buy Falcon 3.0. A study-sim. You were pretty much buying a single highly detailed airframe with a sim built around it. The difference is in DCS, each of these study-sims can be hooked together in a common\shared simulation platform (i.e. DCS World).
Not necessarily the best approach for everyone. It also requires more effort and focus per airframe to learn than a more casually modeled survey-sim of several airframes. Depth vs breadth. Pros and cons either way, but different approaches.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 10:27:43 AM
The list of free player made mods is extensive. Some are very good, some not. Some are stand alone, some require a specific licensed aircraft. If you watch the video I posted on how to install the OH-6A mod using OVGME you'll notice I have a long list of free mods (all in that list are free). If you try the F-104 be sure to use the shiny skin. Much kooler.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 06, 2024, 10:30:13 AM
Oh, cool! I'd probably be interested in more modern aircraft, as I've always leaned towards WW2 planes. I'm anxious to try it out again this summer when I have more time and have TIR setup!
I at least recommend people try the choppers. That is not something you can get in AH. A totally different flying experience than AH WWII planes and a whole new world of flight dynamics. ;)
Think of it as complementing AH, not replacing it.
If you were going to buy just one, I'd suggest the Huey. Most fun for the buck helo flying so far, IMHO.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 10:52:26 AM
I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 06, 2024, 04:25:37 PM
10 years ago or so DCS was in a slump. Module prices dropped a lot. Seems I bought 4 licenses of the Huey at $10 each. Multiples of other mods too. Intended for my grandsons. They made a dramatic come back not long after. Just a bit of trivia.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: RichardDarkwood on May 06, 2024, 06:38:48 PM
I was browsing around on the DCS site earlier. I knew you had to buy aircraft, but JEEZ. $75 for a plane? Do they run deals periodically, or how does that work? (not complaining, just expressing my surprise)
Go check out the prices for a game called " X plane " i think it is.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 06, 2024, 10:05:39 PM
For the most part they looked cheaper, but also have to pay $80 for the base game. Interesting. I had never even heard of that sim.
X-Plane is generally regarded as the best simulator of light aircraft. I used to use it to practice instrument procedures. If you subscribe to one of the services run by ex-FAA controllers, such as pilotedge.net, you can get real-time practice in ATC communications. Highly regarded. I've never heard of it being used for combat against other real people, though.
- oldman
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 07, 2024, 07:27:55 AM
Oh, cool! I'd probably be interested in more modern aircraft, as I've always leaned towards WW2 planes. I'm anxious to try it out again this summer when I have more time and have TIR setup!
If you are just curious about DCS and want to see if it is worth your time then don't spend any money. Download the free base program and then the free A-4E mod (aircraft the instructors used in original "Top Gun" movie). You will be able to explore pretty much everything DCS has to offer (air to air combat, air to ground combat, air refueling, carrier ops, land based airports, dynamic weather, and multiplayer servers). The A-4E is just a step up from WWII as it has limited radar for ground use only. The mod comes with a full manual that is available to read standalone or via kneeboard while in the game.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Banshee7 on May 07, 2024, 08:30:46 AM
If you are just curious about DCS and want to see if it is worth your time then don't spend any money. Download the free base program and then the free A-4E mod (aircraft the instructors used in original "Top Gun" movie). You will be able to explore pretty much everything DCS has to offer (air to air combat, air to ground combat, air refueling, carrier ops, land based airports, dynamic weather, and multiplayer servers). The A-4E is just a step up from WWII as it has limited radar for ground use only. The mod comes with a full manual that is available to read standalone or via kneeboard while in the game.
This is the route I was going to take! I have zero experience outside of AH, so I know it's going to be a learning curve just to take off, fly, and land! I'm going to stick to the 51 for a bit. Also have to learn how to map my X52. But, that's what this summer is for. Plenty of time to learn :rock :joystick:
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 07, 2024, 08:40:56 AM
When you add a new aircraft always go into the axis controls and unmap everything not needed. The game will by default make a mess of this every time. You do not want your pedals/throttle also mapped to pitch/roll/etc...
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 07, 2024, 09:35:47 AM
This is the route I was going to take! I have zero experience outside of AH, so I know it's going to be a learning curve just to take off, fly, and land! I'm going to stick to the 51 for a bit. Also have to learn how to map my X52. But, that's what this summer is for. Plenty of time to learn :rock :joystick:
Keep in mind that WWII aircraft require more piloting skill than later aircraft (just like WWI aircraft are harder to fly than WWII). AH does give you some experience, but there is not as much warning when the aircraft goes into an accelerated stall. There is more engine management with WWII aircraft as well. AH does not really simulate tail dragger aircraft, so you will find taxiing, takeoff, and landings, more difficult. It is nothing you can't master, just different. Hope you enjoy the journey.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 07, 2024, 09:46:23 AM
The German aircraft are the hardest for me. Remember to turn off the assist if you want a challenge, it's on by default. I don't think they had two seat trainers for these aircraft. Probably lost more than a few aircraft to new pilots.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on May 07, 2024, 09:49:11 AM
Im trying the "journey" as well. DLed the game.....man that file is huge! Got it started and installed. Not sure where to find the A6 and how to get that into the game. But, I have time and it is free :)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 07, 2024, 09:56:26 AM
https://heclak.github.io/community-a4e-c/
OVGME is a handy tool to enable and disable third party mods.
https://youtu.be/szuppmcrmko
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 07, 2024, 01:34:41 PM
Just because I know it infuriates Animl....
Looks like PHUN.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 07, 2024, 01:52:09 PM
Haven’t played a jet sim since the days of blackout redout blackout redout.
Personally, I am more interested in the Kiowa and Chinook, but I know there are a lot fixed-wingers who have been dry humping this F-4 release. Glad to see them get their toy.
Now, about that Kiowa. ;)
I do hope that Puma can give it a try some time and Darkwood can interview him and get his SME opinion on how close Heatblur came to capturing what he remembered. Of course a simulation can never capture sitting in the cockpit and smelling the fuel and feeling the Gs. But how close did it get given what is possible on a consumer PC platform. That would be an interesting interview youtube.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on May 08, 2024, 02:38:05 AM
The German aircraft are the hardest for me. Remember to turn off the assist if you want a challenge, it's on by default. I don't think they had two seat trainers for these aircraft. Probably lost more than a few aircraft to new pilots.
heh.. the 190s are the easiest of all the Warbirds (IMO)... although the A8 is a pig, just like everywhere else.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 08, 2024, 07:51:48 AM
OVGME is a handy tool to enable and disable third party mods.
https://youtu.be/szuppmcrmko
Make sure you install in the correct folder. Most issues are with this simple mistake. OVGME is really good for installing different mods, but the A-4 mod all goes into one folder and does not replace any DCS files. It is easily removed so OVGME isn't really needed for this one.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 08:42:10 AM
OVGME isn't really needed but it's convenient. Especially for the more complicated core mods like the F-16i.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on May 08, 2024, 08:47:48 AM
Make sure you install in the correct folder. Most issues are with this simple mistake. OVGME is really good for installing different mods, but the A-4 mod all goes into one folder and does not replace any DCS files. It is easily removed so OVGME isn't really needed for this one.
On the link Iron posted there are 3 files, 2 zips and a "GZ" file. Which folder do I drop these into, after unzipping the first 2 of course? Im assuming .../Mods/Aircraft, but I dont see any "gz" files.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 09:24:16 AM
Disregard below. Obviously I misunderstood the issue was the A-4 and not the OH-6A.
All three of those files are compressed. In file explorer right click, drag to an empty spot, release right mouse button, choose extract.
I've made other videos on how to set up and use ovgme.
https://youtu.be/_STNLtzyWDE
https://youtu.be/GTWdlGOyR7M
OVGME just copies and deletes files. You can do it manually. Non core mods (like the OH-6A), all reside in your c:\users\<user name>\saved games\dcs.openbeta(or whatever yours is called)\mods folder. In some exceptions like the OH-6A there is also a script for the door gunner added to the scripts folder (at the same folder level as mods).
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 08, 2024, 09:42:16 AM
On the link Iron posted there are 3 files, 2 zips and a "GZ" file. Which folder do I drop these into, after unzipping the first 2 of course? Im assuming .../Mods/Aircraft, but I dont see any "gz" files.
You only need to download and extract the file "Community_A-4E-C_v2.2.zip". The other files are not needed. Once extracted place the entire unzipped folder in "c:\user\(your user name)\saved games\DCS"
That is all there is to it.
If you DO run into problems the developers of the A-4 are very willing to help on this Discord channel: https://discord.gg/Eb6m5T8x
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 08, 2024, 09:44:55 AM
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 10:03:52 AM
Good video. One thing I'll note, while there is no auto start for the A-4, you can create a mission with it sitting on the ramp or runway already started and ready to roll.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Drano on May 08, 2024, 10:12:42 AM
Apps like this are handy for swapping mods in and out. JGSME is another that does the same. MSFS has one called Add-on Linker. Makes it easy to clear out the mods when the game has an update. That way there's no conflicts. Then just add them back as needed. Add-on Linker is nice that you can make different profiles too.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 08, 2024, 10:17:56 AM
Once the A-4 is installed I would start DCS, then go into the settings menu (the cog upper left) and map your axis for the A-4. Then go to "Instant Action" and choose "Free flight" for the A-4 in the Caucasus map. Fly around just to get a feel for the aircraft. While flying, if you need to adjust the sensitivity of the aircraft just press the ESC key and choose "Adjust controls". Use "Axis tune" and adjust the curvature till the aircraft feels good for you.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 10:27:47 AM
Don't forget to make youtube videos of your progress. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: CptTrips on May 08, 2024, 11:15:54 AM
I use mods sparingly.
Mods can be the source of bugs when DCS changes version, mods have to be updated separately. A lot of bugs end up being traced back to mods.
When you have problems, the first advice is going to be to remove all mods and re-test. ;) That is reasonable, as DCS API and behaviors the mods depend on can change at any time and break something and it is not ED's problem to test with every mod. And some mods may no longer have active dev support.
Mainstream mods like the Blackhawk and A-4 would probably not be a problem often.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 11:19:56 AM
That's why I use OVGME to enable/disable mods. Makes it easy to turn them on when I want them and turn them off as soon as I'm done.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 11:22:19 AM
Another related app I find very handy, Skatezilla's Launcher. Among many other functions it can be used to auto launch 5 or 6 other apps with DCS. Like Voice Attack, Track IR, Helios, etc....
You only need to download and extract the file "Community_A-4E-C_v2.2.zip". The other files are not needed. Once extracted place the entire unzipped folder in "c:\user\(your user name)\saved games\DCS"
That is all there is to it.
If you DO run into problems the developers of the A-4 are very willing to help on this Discord channel: https://discord.gg/Eb6m5T8x
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 11:27:35 AM
You put it in the game folder instead of your saved games folder.
Depending on your install folder name:
Here: c:\users\<username>\saved games\dcs\mods
Not here: c:\program files\dcs\mods
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: The Fugitive on May 08, 2024, 12:36:25 PM
your right, I did have another copy in there. I final got it working. I removed all the Mod files I was messing with and started over. I got it right this time and it works. Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: AKIron on May 08, 2024, 01:09:26 PM
your right, I did have another copy in there. I final got it working. I removed all the Mod files I was messing with and started over. I got it right this time and it works. Thanks for the help.
Don't ask me how I knew that. ;)
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: Tumor on May 08, 2024, 01:16:06 PM
your right, I did have another copy in there. I final got it working. I removed all the Mod files I was messing with and started over. I got it right this time and it works. Thanks for the help.
The A4 is one of the funnestest of ALL the modules. Pack that sucker full of Snakeyes do some low alt level bombing... it's glorious fun. The "X" South of Kobuleti on Hoggit Training is all set up and ready for just such runs.
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 08, 2024, 01:18:33 PM
I enjoy loading the A-4 with three 20mm gunpods. Aerial shotgun! The recoil pulls the nose down on strafing runs. Still not as much nose bounce as in AH. :D
Title: Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
Post by: edge12674 on May 08, 2024, 01:28:41 PM